General Updates and News

[Dmajackson]

^Still trying to figure this one out. The ground floor outline appears to compliment the recently redone building to the left which implies its owned by the same developer but it is listed as a commercial project with no planned residential units.

[JET]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/floating-micro-tiny-home-lake-micmac-dartmouth-1.4815622
I think this is a really bad idea, there are already too many houses and seadoos on the Dartmouth lakes.

[Jonovision]

^Still trying to figure this one out. The ground floor outline appears to compliment the recently redone building to the left which implies its owned by the same developer but it is listed as a commercial project with no planned residential units.

It is the same developer as the other two buildings built on the same block over the last decade.

[OldDartmouthMark]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/floating-micro-tiny-home-lake-micmac-dartmouth-1.4815622
I think this is a really bad idea, there are already too many houses and seadoos on the Dartmouth lakes.

My thoughts as well. I didn't see it when I skimmed the article, but what happens to the wastewater from this house? Seems to me the Dartmouth lakes are already having problems with high bacteria counts - can't see this as improving the situation...

[JET]

My thoughts as well. I didn't see it when I skimmed the article, but what happens to the wastewater from this house? Seems to me the Dartmouth lakes are already having problems with high bacteria counts - can't see this as improving the situation...

They don't have water/sewage hooked up, they mention that it could be hooked up to a neighboring property, probably across the road, I think all these water properties belong to the properties across the road.

[OldDartmouthMark]

They don't have water/sewage hooked up, they mention that it could be hooked up to a neighboring property, probably across the road, I think all these water properties belong to the properties across the road.

Interesting - then without services they are just a large boat, not a house. In the real world, however, I am suspect as to how failsafe these hookups would be, especially when the lake freezes over in the wintertime. There's a reason why regular services must be dug below the frost line.

[someone123]

No details are available but 1874 Brunswick Street is going to Design Review Committee for a preliminary presentation. This is the gray office building located just below The Pearl at Brunswick/Gottingen/Duke.

Anyone have any ideas or insider information?

EDIT: The presenter is an architect based out of St. John's. Fougere Menchenton (http://fougeremenchenton.ca/)

Does anyone have any details from this meeting?

[someone123]

A report relating to 5426 Portland Place with some elevations: https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/regional-council/180918rc1414.pdf

[HalifaxRetales]

Art of City Building is back this year October 29
https://www.artofcitybuilding.ca/agenda/

[Corker]

I see Canada Lands Company is starting a community consultation process for redevelopment of the former RCMP property at 3151/3139 Oxford Street. Two properties total approximately 4.5 acres. A session is happening on Wednesday evening, March 28.

http://en.clc.ca/property/576

This is across the Oxford/Bayers Road intersection from the 3090 Oxford proposal.

I took a stroll the other evening down Oxford and see that the RCMP building has now been demolished. The building being used by CBSC, on the corner of Oxford and Bayers Road is still standing but is to come down next year after they vacate.

[alps]

Anyone know what they are building beside the relocated Stadacona entrance (Gottingen and Almon)? In the Google Earth image from December 2017 there is a sizable building foundation under construction.

[kph06]

Anyone know what they are building beside the relocated Stadacona entrance (Gottingen and Almon)? In the Google Earth image from December 2017 there is a sizable building foundation under construction.

I heard it is a drill shed. I drove by last night, they are putting the exterior on, it looks like it will be a pre-cast warehouse.

[alps]

I heard it is a drill shed. I drove by last night, they are putting the exterior on, it looks like it will be a pre-cast warehouse.

Thanks!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Most Halifax cranes halted as operators strike (https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/10/24/most-halifax-cranes-halted-as-operators-strike.html)

Most of the cranes in Halifax will be still for the next few weeks as their operators take to the picket line, likely delaying major projects like Queen’s Marque.

More than 100 members of the Operating Engineers, Local 721 in Halifax and across mainland Nova Scotia walked off the job Wednesday in a legal strike.

[pblaauw]

Heh. Someone gave me an IUOE 721 hat a few years ago. I shall wear it in solidarity.

[kph06]

The empty lot on Kemp south of Kia has been cleared of cars and construction fencing has started to go up. I think a new VW dealership is planned here, there was a story about it a few years ago when Hillcrest became part of the O’Regan’s group.

[Keith P.]

The empty lot on Kemp south of Kia has been cleared of cars and construction fencing has started to go up. I think a new VW dealership is planned here, there was a story about it a few years ago when Hillcrest became part of the O’Regan’s group.

What O'Regans really need to do is relocate their GM dealership from the ancient location on Robie to something new in a location like this. But the VW dealer facility is also ancient and small, so it seems likely this is what is happening here.

[Hali87]

Not sure if this has been posted yet or whether there's more info but I noticed this earlier today, a redevelopment plan for the Tramway Building. It looks like they are retaining the facade and possibly some aspects of the interior/structure, keeping the ground floor commercial and converting the upper floors to residential, adding a 2-storey residential addition for a total of about 52 [edit: 32] units. Notably, there doesn't seem to be any parking included (unless the existing building already includes a parkade)/ I guess this is probably the case for a lot of existing apartment units downtown, especially above street level on streets like Barrington:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1976/30683740657_6bc97c2ff1_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NKqc6k)
Tramway Building notice (https://flic.kr/p/NKqc6k) by Hali87 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/72021271@N05/), on Flickr

[Hali87]

In other news, large slabs of the granite trim on the old WTCC have been removed.

[someone123]

Interesting find. Thanks for posting. 52 units is a lot for a building that size. The floor plan shows that they will mostly be studios.

[Hali87]

Sorry, typo, that should be 32.

[eastcoastal]

Not sure if this has been posted yet or whether there's more info but I noticed this earlier today, a redevelopment plan for the Tramway Building. It looks like they are retaining the facade and possibly some aspects of the interior/structure, keeping the ground floor commercial and converting the upper floors to residential, adding a 2-storey residential addition for a total of about 52 [edit: 32] units. Notably, there doesn't seem to be any parking included (unless the existing building already includes a parkade)/ I guess this is probably the case for a lot of existing apartment units downtown, especially above street level on streets like Barrington:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1976/30683740657_6bc97c2ff1_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NKqc6k)
Tramway Building notice (https://flic.kr/p/NKqc6k) by Hali87 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/72021271@N05/), on Flickr

Do those two-bedroom units have only lightwell access to daylight? I'm not sure how enjoyable those will be if that's true.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I like it from an aesthetic point of view. Looks like they will look into whether it is feasible to remove the ground floor masonry and return it to its original look, so still some unanswered questions. It looks promising, though.

[mleblanc]

Do those two-bedroom units have only lightwell access to daylight? I'm not sure how enjoyable those will be if that's true.

Looks like the developer is trying to squeeze as many studio apartments as possible into this thing, and my God do those studios look tiny. I don't even see a sink in the bathroom? Not sure that anyone will want to live in a bottom of the well apartment though, as these look more like dormitory floorplans then apartments. Oh well, $1300 month studios here we come :shrug:

[Keith P.]

I don't even see a sink in the bathroom?


Look harder.

[eastcoastal]

...I don't even see a sink in the bathroom? ...

Half-circle shape on the wall opposite the toilet. Looks like a wetroom-style washroom with showerhead adjacent to the toilet.

[Phalanx]

Could be worse...
OsDZKCvpYL4

[pblaauw]

RALSTON BUILDING UPDATE from the CLC website:

Date: Wednesday, November 7th Time: 6:00 - 8:00 p.m.

Location: Maritime Museum of the Atlantic, 1675 Lower Water Street, Halifax

Join Canada Lands Company, Architecture49, and WSP Canada Inc. to talk about the future of the site and discuss some design ideas.

This workshop will focus on land uses, built form and heritage commemoration.

If you plan to attend, we would appreciate notice through an RSVP at: info@plan1557hollis.ca

Light refreshments will be served. Thank you.

[someone123]

Join Canada Lands Company, Architecture49, and WSP Canada Inc. to talk about the future of the site and discuss some design ideas.

I guess it's a given that the existing building will be torn down and the site will be turned into a blank slate?

I assume they will talk about how the new buildings will be LEED ultra-platinum, etc. But will anybody think much about the energy and resource costs inherent to demolishing and rebuilding? Plus I guess the offices that used to be here moved out to the suburbs...

[pblaauw]

I guess it's a given that the existing building will be torn down and the site will be turned into a blank slate?

I assume they will talk about how the new buildings will be LEED ultra-platinum, etc. But will anybody think much about the energy and resource costs inherent to demolishing and rebuilding? Plus I guess the offices that used to be here moved out to the suburbs...

At the meeting in September, they said demolition was scheduled for spring 2019, and that the CRA offices had moved, but I can't remember where.

[ns_kid]

At the meeting in September, they said demolition was scheduled for spring 2019, and that the CRA offices had moved, but I can't remember where.

CRA’s local offices moved last year to Bayer’s Lake, to 145 Hobson Lake Drive (which is essentially in Beechville). Around the same time the agency’s regional head office moved to Alderney Gate (from Purdys Wharf). It was truly a fundamental shift because, until a few years ago, it was government policy to locate the tax offices in city cores. That was before they stopped inviting lowly citizens to walk in off the street when they needed tax help.

Went by the Ralston the other day and it appears they are already well along to gutting the interior.

[Ziobrop]

In other news, large slabs of the granite trim on the old WTCC have been removed.

i walked through the pedway, and the convention space was being renovated. - there was a building permit pasted to the exit door to the convention area near the corner of duke/argyle, but i couldnt stop to read it.

[kph06]

Has anyone else heard the rumour that the Round Tower in Clayton Park at 200 Willett is going to be demolished and the site rebuilt. I live across the street and have been noticing the seemingly alarming number of vacant windows and was recently told that leases are not being renewed and they are emptying out the building. I don't know if this also includes the low-rise apartment buildings behind this one. There have been various owners of this property over the years and none have taken good care of the property. I wonder what will be built there.....

I drove by last night and thought I saw construction fencing up around the site out of the corner of my eye. Things must be moving forward.

[teddifax]

It is amazing that there is nothing in the news about 210 Willett (the Round Tower)! We have heard many rumours that it will be a total tear down/rebuild with ground floor retail a possibility....looking forward to hearing about this....

[teddifax]

What happened today in the meeting for the Ralston building?

[Colin May]

One reason why the Halifax area will be a magnet for young people over the next decade or more : https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/briefing/article-the-priciest-to-cheapest-housing-markets-per-square-foot-from-gasp/

[teddifax]

Love to read this article, but have to be a subscriber to the paper....

[Colin May]

Love to read this article, but have to be a subscriber to the paper....

City Cost per sq ft
Moncton, N.B. $101
St. John's, Nfld.
Owen Sound, Ont.
Prince George, B.C.
Halifax $155
Prince George, B.C.**
Fort St. John, B.C.
Grey Bruce, Ont.
London, Ont.
Huntsville, Ont.
Montreal, Downtown & SW $603
Richmond, B.C. $677
North Vancouver
Surrey, B.C.*
Vancouver, East Side
Vancouver
West Vancouver
Toronto, Downtown*
Vancouver, West Side
Vancouver, Downtown* $1,345


This comes amid concerns in Canada over affordability in some centres, notably the Vancouver and Toronto areas, and after federal and provincial measures aimed at cooling inflated prices.

Indeed, a new National Bank of Canada study released today showed affordability getting even worse in the third quarter.

Some regional highlights from Cent:

British Columbia: “Going back 20 years most Metro Vancouver prices have tripled or quadrupled - to $681 [price per square foot] this year from $192 in 1998 in North Vancouver, for example.”

Alberta: “Alberta real estate prices have been soft over the last year, falling in most communities while rising in very few.”

Prairies: “The price per square foot of homes across much of Saskatchewan and Manitoba retracted in the last year after two decades of growth. Only Winnipeg bucked the trend, with prices for a detached house there rising to $282 from $267 per square foot while prices in Regina and Saskatoon saw modest declines.”

Ontario: Prices in downtown Toronto climbed more than 10 per cent over the past year and “continue to top Ontario home prices, while prices rose and fell turbulently in GTA suburbs and other communities in the province.”

Eastern Canada: Prices “have risen moderately in the last year even while other parts of Canada faced more variable real estate markets.”

The National Bank study showed affordability worsening in nine of 10 markets tracked, despite an easing in home prices.

“Expensive housing markets such as Vancouver and Toronto slowed down markedly in 2018, and home prices even declined in Q3 due to the combined effect of rising mortgage rates (up for a fifth consecutive quarter) and macro prudential measures,” said National Bank’s Matthieu Arsenau and Kyle Dahms.

“Despite lower home prices, homebuyer affordability failed to improve as wages were down in those markets.”

The Montreal and Ottawa area markets, which have been on fire, suffered the “sharpest deteriorations in affordability” in the quarter.

“But for another reason: Home prices surged respectively by 2.1 per cent and 2.5 per cent quarter over quarter,” said Mr. Arsenau and Mr. Dahms.

“These markets appear to be unaffected by rising interest rates and tighter credit standards as shown by resale market conditions being strongly tilted in favour of sellers.”

SOURCE: CENTURY 21 CANADA

[Jreeb]

These wooden structures have appeared on Purdy's Wharf. Is this a sign that something is being done to liven it up?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/160390292@N05/45749585452/in/dateposted-public

https://www.flickr.com/photos/160390292@N05/45749585452/in/dateposted-public/

[mleblanc]

These wooden structures have appeared on Purdy's Wharf. Is this a sign that something is being done to liven it up?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/160390292@N05/45749585452/in/dateposted-public

https://www.flickr.com/photos/160390292@N05/45749585452/in/dateposted-public/

They are landscaping the entire wharf and courtyard between the buildings. Should look great, especially Cogswell comes down and connects them back to the rest of downtown.

See: http://www.uplandstudio.ca/purdys-wharf-2/62150v97l0kw8ui69c4chbxoinwvua

[teddifax]

Why don't they arrange a summer time restaurant/bar out there, or something to better utilize the space and draw people there? It doesn't really have anything to want people to go there, even with the dressing up of the site.

[HalifaxRetales]

Why don't they arrange a summer time restaurant/bar out there, or something to better utilize the space and draw people there? It doesn't really have anything to want people to go there, even with the dressing up of the site.

They had the last 2 summers and it wasn't well used

[Jreeb]

They had the last 2 summers and it wasn't well used

Hopefully, once the Cogswell Interchange makes progress this wharf will find a purpose and become more connected with the city.

[teddifax]

On Haligonia.ca, an aerial picture showing Purdy's Wharf at night was posted, also showing the parkade. It looks like it may have been designed to have more stories added in the future. I was wondering if this was possible and that maybe the addition could be office or residential. The photographer is Matt Hayes. I don't know how to post pictures here. Is there something written up on how to do this? I used to have something on it but lost it on another computer.

[Franco401]

http://i.imgur.com/gHFJDKf.jpg

I can't find the image you described but what part do you mean?

Edit: wow, sorry about the image

[RoshanMcG]

On Haligonia.ca, an aerial picture showing Purdy's Wharf at night was posted, also showing the parkade. It looks like it may have been designed to have more stories added in the future. I was wondering if this was possible and that maybe the addition could be office or residential. The photographer is Matt Hayes. I don't know how to post pictures here. Is there something written up on how to do this? I used to have something on it but lost it on another computer.

Was it this picture? (From the Canada forum)

https://scontent.fyhz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45973452_753231665019891_2214166584388222976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fyhz1-1.fna&oh=4e944e1fd050c65ab9fa2b5c1fabacfd&oe=5C7D2815
Source (https://www.facebook.com/halifaxnoise/photos/a.192104294465967/753231661686558/?type=3&theater)

[RoshanMcG]

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4903943.1542142507!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/former-halifax-memorial-library-plan-proposal-dalhousie.jpg

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4903954.1542142833!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/a-conceptual-plan-for-the-former-halifax-memorial-library.jpg

Council discusses future of old Halifax Memorial Library

by Anjuli Patil

The future of the former Halifax Memorial Library became a little clearer Tuesday after regional council voted 13-3 for a report to look into redeveloping the site in conjunction with the province and Dalhousie University.

"This is a really unique piece of land in the middle of the city, it's got green space around it," said Mayor Mike Savage. "People have been looking at the building and driving around it for a long time and wondering what's going to go on."

According to a declassified report from Halifax's CAO, the redeveloped building would include a public atrium, education space, HRM premises as well as commercial and retail space.

The staff recommendation, outlined in a report that became public Tuesday, said the proposal should include an analysis of both a public-private partnership and an option for HRM to design and own the project.

The library building, located at Grafton Street and Spring Garden Road, closed Aug. 20, 2014 to make way for the Halifax Central Library.

During the council meeting Tuesday, Jacques Dubé made a presentation on redeveloping the former library.

In the presentation, he said the land where the library sits had to be turned over to the province when the library ceased operation.

Dubé said the province is interested in removing restrictions to using land only being used for a library — but there were 10 conditions attached.

Some of those conditions include the province being consulted in the future and the province not being required to bear any costs related to future changes in the use of the site.

Coun. Russell Walker wasn't impressed.

"My first reaction was, take it back — you do it then," said Walker. "I am disappointed that the province didn't want it, but boy they're sure controlling it."

The report says Dalhousie, the municipality and the province have been talking about sharing the space for the university's architecture school, HRM municipal space and a commercial area available for lease.

Dubé recommended staff work on a feasibility report to be discussed in 2019. The report would look into whether there should be a public-private agreement or if the municipality should redevelop the space on its own.

Source (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/council-discusses-future-of-old-halifax-memorial-library-1.4903919?cmp=rss)

[teddifax]

Was it this picture? (From the Canada forum)
Yes, it is, thank you for posting, it is an excellent one.

[teddifax]

I really like the new proposal for the old Library and hope it gets approved. I just heard on the CTV late news that the alternative is demolition.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I really like the new proposal for the old Library and hope it gets approved. I just heard on the CTV late news that the alternative is demolition.

I like it too.

I heard the alternative was to demolish it and turn it into park land. While free public space is always a nice thing in a city, in this case it doesn't seem like good use of the land. The proposal posted above, still retains the public space that exists in front of the building, but uses the remaining part of the lot very well, I think. An attractive proposal IMHO.

[Keith P.]

I cannot believe anyone thinks this is an attractive proposal.

Even uglier is the fact that according to the article HRM would be on the hook for the entire development cost of $30 million, and that there are no assurances of any revenue stream. The suggestion made that the planning & development offices of the HRM bureaucracy be consolidated here is even more absurd - those are offices that require considerable public access, and you would be putting them in one of the most inaccessible areas of the downtown for anyone needing to drive in to obtain a permit or meet with planners.

It is time to bite the bullet, raze the old library building, and let the space revert to a park.

[Franco401]

2 block away from multiple parking garages? That seems like decent access to me. I will admit that this seems like they're scrambling for a decent use for the library. The Cogswell lands would be a better location IMO, but that's years away. Personally I might rather see development on that land than just parkland, but keeping the existing building is by far the better option.

[Keith P.]

2 block away from multiple parking garages? That seems like decent access to me. I will admit that this seems like they're scrambling for a decent use for the library. The Cogswell lands would be a better location IMO, but that's years away. Personally I might rather see development on that land than just parkland, but keeping the existing building is by far the better option.

You clearly have spent little time recently trying to get around downtown or trying to park. It is nightmarish thanks to HRM's war on the private vehicle.

The existing building is very close to being unhabitable and beyond saving due to neglect. We need to move on.

[MonctonRad]

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4903954.1542142833!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/a-conceptual-plan-for-the-former-halifax-memorial-library.jpg

I've always been fond of this building, it's unique oblique orientation on it's lot, and the triangular square in front. The statue of Churchill is iconic, and the pathway in front of the building is an essential shortcut between SGR and the downtown. :yes:

I think the essence of this building should be preserved at nearly any cost, and I like the render that has been provided.

I fully support this proposal. :tup:

[OldDartmouthMark]

You clearly have spent little time recently trying to get around downtown or trying to park.

Downtown is not difficult to get around and I never have an issue finding a place to park. Maybe you need to do a little more research? :shrug:

[Keith P.]

Downtown is not difficult to get around and I never have an issue finding a place to park. Maybe you need to do a little more research? :shrug:

I have. My conclusion is evidence-based!

[OldDartmouthMark]

I have. My conclusion is evidence-based!

I'm not doubting that, Keith.

In which locations are you having the most difficulties, and what time of day?

[Querce]

I mean, according to the Spring Garden Business Association (http://www.springgardenarea.com/parking-public-transportation/), there's 1512 parking spaces in the area, +on street parking

[OldDartmouthMark]

I mean, according to the Spring Garden Business Association (http://www.springgardenarea.com/parking-public-transportation/), there's 1512 parking spaces in the area, +on street parking

Yes, and that's not even counting MetroPark, the Nova Centre, The Prince George, Scotia Square, etc., that are also in the vicinity.

That's why I was wondering if Keith has completely researched the parking situation downtown. I have never gone there and not found a place to park - I don't even bother trying to find a street spot, though, not worth the aggravation and potential damage to the vehicle (DAMHIK).

For that matter, if we get better transit, (i.e. effective rail/link transit) I probably wouldn't even bother to take the car anymore.

[Keith P.]

Yes, and that's not even counting MetroPark, the Nova Centre, The Prince George, Scotia Square, etc., that are also in the vicinity.

That's why I was wondering if Keith has completely researched the parking situation downtown. I have never gone there and not found a place to park - I don't even bother trying to find a street spot, though, not worth the aggravation and potential damage to the vehicle (DAMHIK).

For that matter, if we get better transit, (i.e. effective rail/link transit) I probably wouldn't even bother to take the car anymore.

If you are seeking a building permit you are not taking the bus. That's first.

Second, parkades like Scotia Square and MetroPark are not exactly in the vicinity. They are on the penisula and that's about it. There is also ample parking at the HSC if you are casting that broad of a net I suppose.

In any event the item that I saw on the TV news last night cast this in a new and curious light. Turns out this isn't a Dalhousie proposal after all, which explains why they have not committed to anything on the revenue side. It is a Frank Palermo "scheme" (his words I believe) dreamed up by him and his students in the school of architecture. So basically a class project. He sent it to HRM and to his surprise they bit. Seems quite remarkable that this would suddenly become a viable use for the property when all other ideas in the past were rejected.

Given the origins of this and the lack of any financial analysis at all, my position is only even stronger. Tear the thing down.

[MonctonRad]

In any event the item that I saw on the TV news last night cast this in a new and curious light. Turns out this isn't a Dalhousie proposal after all, which explains why they have not committed to anything on the revenue side. It is a Frank Palermo "scheme" (his words I believe) dreamed up by him and his students in the school of architecture. So basically a class project. He sent it to HRM and to his surprise they bit. Seems quite remarkable that this would suddenly become a viable use for the property when all other ideas in the past were rejected.

That's interesting.

I still like the proposal though, and can understand why it intrigues city hall.

Palermo may have stepped on some toes with his stunt, but it certainly has generated interest. Hopefully this will not auger badly for his proposal.

[OldDartmouthMark]

If you are seeking a building permit you are not taking the bus. That's first.

Second, parkades like Scotia Square and MetroPark are not exactly in the vicinity. They are on the penisula and that's about it. There is also ample parking at the HSC if you are casting that broad of a net I suppose.

From Google Maps, walking distance and time from various parkades to the old library building:

Halifax Central Library Parkade - 160m, 2 minutes
Nova Centre - 270m, 3 minutes
Spring Garden Place - 350m, 4 minutes
The Mary Ann parkade - 350m, 4 minutes
City Centre Atlantic - 400m, 5 minutes
MetroPark - 400m, 6 minutes
Prince George Hotel - 450m, 6 minutes
Park Lane Parkade - 500m, 6 minutes
The Lord Nelson parkade - 500m, 7 minutes
Scotia Square Parkade - 900m, 12 minutes
Halifax Shopping Centre - 4.1 km, 52 minutes

Hmmm... HSC might be a bit of a stretch... ;)

[OldDartmouthMark]

That's interesting.

I still like the proposal though, and can understand why it intrigues city hall.

Palermo may have stepped on some toes with his stunt, but it certainly has generated interest. Hopefully this will not auger badly for his proposal.

Yes, it's probably not a bad idea to have a fresh perspective on it, actually.

But, Keith is most likely on point in that they will take the easy way out and demolish it... :2cents:

[Hali87]

In any event the item that I saw on the TV news last night cast this in a new and curious light. Turns out this isn't a Dalhousie proposal after all, which explains why they have not committed to anything on the revenue side. It is a Frank Palermo "scheme" (his words I believe) dreamed up by him and his students in the school of architecture. So basically a class project. He sent it to HRM and to his surprise they bit. Seems quite remarkable that this would suddenly become a viable use for the property when all other ideas in the past were rejected.

Do you have a link to the news item? I'm curious to see what the idea is.

[eastcoastal]

Do you have a link to the news item? I'm curious to see what the idea is.

Not sure if this is the same thing that Keith saw, but there are some videos in the Global story at the following link, as well as an embedded link to the report that Council has made public now.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4659261/halifax-revitalization-memorial-library/

[eastcoastal]

I'd actually like to know what happened to the building's designation as a war memorial. Is that something that can just go away? Is the building considered a memorial, or did the memorial status move with the location of the institution?

[Keith P.]

Not sure if this is the same thing that Keith saw, but there are some videos in the Global story at the following link, as well as an embedded link to the report that Council has made public now.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4659261/halifax-revitalization-memorial-library/

Yep, that's it. I looked for it yesterday and couldn't find it. Thanks for posting it.

[Keith P.]

I'd actually like to know what happened to the building's designation as a war memorial. Is that something that can just go away? Is the building considered a memorial, or did the memorial status move with the location of the institution?

No, it still is. the new glass box is not a memorial (except to the tax dollars that were spent on it). I think the memorial aspect is why someone on Council stated that they can't tear the old building down. I don't think that's accurate, but there seems to be considerable confusion.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Not much information presented in the article/news item, but it seems a little sad that the province just appears to be passing the buck to the city with no semblance of responsibility for the site's revitalization. Plenty of requirements, but no support or assistance.

Also a little sad that it seems the only idea the city has been able to come up with is a class project from the architecture school (although it looks like a good proposal).

I personally hope they do something positive with the building. I'm sure the fact that the burial grounds below it would limit the scope of the project (i.e. height and underground parking), but any development would be better than no development, IMHO.

[Keith P.]

Not much information presented in the article/news item, but it seems a little sad that the province just appears to be passing the buck to the city with no semblance of responsibility for the site's revitalization. Plenty of requirements, but no support or assistance.

Well, the city let things get to this state. And besides, HRM is loaded with excess cash while the province is broke, so I get why they said HRM needs to clean up this mess. The province is not very happy with HRM these days on a number of fronts, so as the senior level of government they are sending junior to his room without any supper.


I personally hope they do something positive with the building. I'm sure the fact that the burial grounds below it would limit the scope of the project (i.e. height and underground parking), but any development would be better than no development, IMHO.


All the more reason just to knock it down and transform the site into a park.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Well, the city let things get to this state. And besides, HRM is loaded with excess cash while the province is broke, so I get why they said HRM needs to clean up this mess. The province is not very happy with HRM these days on a number of fronts, so as the senior level of government they are sending junior to his room without any supper.

Not that the province has been particularly successful at spending its (our) money wisely. I'd rather see a nice building project in the heart of downtown with funding assistance by the province than see them throwing millions upon millions to prop up dying industries. Etc.


All the more reason just to knock it down and transform the site into a park.

I'm quite sure that this will be the actual outcome. Seems strange for you to be defending something so anti-development. I'll remember this the next time you use the term. ;)

[Keith P.]

Seems strange for you to be defending something so anti-development. I'll remember this the next time you use the term. ;)

I don't consider municipal projects to be development in the context we discuss it here. It is just more govt spending, often wasteful, no different than building a bike lane or whatever.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I don't consider municipal projects to be development in the context we discuss it here. It is just more govt spending, often wasteful, no different than building a bike lane or whatever.

I see, so opposing a new or upgraded building that is a privately-owned and funded project is anti-development, and opposing a new or upgraded building that is government-owned and funded is not anti-development.

Is that how you see it?

[Keith P.]

I see, so opposing a new or upgraded building that is a privately-owned and funded project is anti-development, and opposing a new or upgraded building that is government-owned and funded is not anti-development.

Is that how you see it?

Pretty much. One is investment that creates economic growth, while the other merely takes that money from the public.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Pretty much. One is investment that creates economic growth, while the other merely takes that money from the public.

I see where you're coming from. Thanks for providing your perspective.

[someone123]

Pretty much. One is investment that creates economic growth, while the other merely takes that money from the public.

It's important to look at the price tag and the value. Lots of infrastructure projects yield a surplus when you compare the economic activity they produce to their cost. This is probably particularly true now that there's so much opposition to larger public projects compared to past decades.

Projects like Argyle Street can work out the same way by increasing property values and bringing in businesses. Plus there is the value of the public space. It is not a zero sum game.

I don't know what the details are for the old library proposal but there is something to be said for maintaining the character of the city. I think Halifax generally goes too far in the direction of miserly utilitarianism. For years downtown in particular was ignored and it will take a lot of strategic investment to bring it in line with other cities of similar stature.

[Keith P.]

It's important to look at the price tag and the value. Lots of infrastructure projects yield a surplus when you compare the economic activity they produce to their cost. This is probably particularly true now that there's so much opposition to larger public projects compared to past decades.

But building what will be offices for muncipal govt staff and university profs would not fall into that category.

Projects like Argyle Street can work out the same way by increasing property values and bringing in businesses. Plus there is the value of the public space. It is not a zero sum game.

We have yet to see how the businesses on Argyle are actually doing after making the street unfriendly for vehicles. I suspect they are benefiting when the convention center is busy but not doing as well at other times. I think turning the library property into public space would be worthwhile, but this proposal is not that.

[OldDartmouthMark]

But building what will be offices for muncipal govt staff and university profs would not fall into that category.

Actually one of the provincial stipulations is: At least 51% of total usable space, including all the usable space on the ground floor, remains open and accessible to the public/public space and is used for public purposes during regular open hours.

Check out the document:
https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/regional-council/181113rc162.pdf

After reading through it briefly, it seems like reverting it to parkland is the only way to truly follow the original intent of the agreement.

Additionally, despite city councillors' whining about the provincial stipulations, I think the stipulations are the only way to reasonably respect the land and the spirit of the agreement. But, yes... to turn it into offices is skewing the agreement somewhat by removing a portion of it for public use. They are getting around it, I suppose, by requiring the entire ground floor to be accessible to the public - a very reasonable requirement. And, the province is basically saying to the city: by the original agreement, it's supposed to be reverted to parkland if it's not going to be used as a library, but if you are going to do this, you have to pay for it. The media isn't spinning it this way, of course.

I'm also a little perplexed at the St. David's easement request. It makes me wonder why they did not include an easement as part of their current building project, instead relying on the city/province to grant them public land to make their private project work.

[Keith P.]

Yes, I agree. The province is unhappy with HRM for a number of reasons right now so they are not going to cut them much slack on this. Dalhousie has plenty of money to build their own planning & architecture building, as does HRM if they want to consolidate their massive planning department somewhere. I am more befuddled than ever as to why HRM did not exercise their option to purchase the WTCC building when it was available.

[Keith P.]

More on the pie-in-the-sky dream of using the old library for Dal and HRM offices.

In the Herald today an interview with Christine Macy, head of Dal's architecture school, which included this gem:

Most of the building’s “envelope,” which would increase from 40,000 to 85,000 square feet under the proposal, would be shared by the HRM’s planning department — now dispersed across metro — and the studios, classrooms and administration from Dalhousie’s faculty of architecture and planning, which is close to out-growing its existing space .

Downstairs, where people used to peruse the shelves and check out books, would be a public space, where all aspects of planning for the city’s future could be hashed out.

Macy says that public interest groups with a focus on Halifax’s future — heritage organizations, transportation coalitions, for example, along with, say, the Ecology Action Centre — could also share digs there.

Whaaaaat? No, no, no, no, no.

Why would we pay for facilities for outfits like the Heritage Trust, the EAC, and the Halifax Cycling Coalition, all of which advocate positions counter to those of many - likely a majority - of citizens? Jeezus! This is outrageous. No way would I support such a scheme.

[IanWatson]

No way would I support such a scheme.

But surely, grouping them all in one place would make it easier for you to burn them all down! ;)

Weird comment about outgrowing the architecture school though. They're moving the school of planning into another building specifically so the architecture school can have more space in the Medjuck building. I also can't see the EAC wanting to move out of their building on Fern. They put a lot of work and money into reno'ing it.

[JET]

More on the pie-in-the-sky dream of using the old library for Dal and HRM offices.

In the Herald today an interview with Christine Macy, head of Dal's architecture school, which included this gem:

Most of the building’s “envelope,” which would increase from 40,000 to 85,000 square feet under the proposal, would be shared by the HRM’s planning department — now dispersed across metro — and the studios, classrooms and administration from Dalhousie’s faculty of architecture and planning, which is close to out-growing its existing space .

Downstairs, where people used to peruse the shelves and check out books, would be a public space, where all aspects of planning for the city’s future could be hashed out.

Macy says that public interest groups with a focus on Halifax’s future — heritage organizations, transportation coalitions, for example, along with, say, the Ecology Action Centre — could also share digs there.

Whaaaaat? No, no, no, no, no.

Why would we pay for facilities for outfits like the Heritage Trust, the EAC, and the Halifax Cycling Coalition, all of which advocate positions counter to those of many - likely a majority - of citizens? Jeezus! This is outrageous. No way would I support such a scheme.

".. all of which advocate positions of many - likely a majority - of citizens?"

Interesting how changing a few words drastically changes what may be reality. Not sure who you speak for Keith, but you definitely don't speak for me and people I know. Dal has a history of building things, I expect that they don't need your money to do so.

[Summerville]

".. all of which advocate positions of many - likely a majority - of citizens?"

Interesting how changing a few words drastically changes what may be reality. Not sure who you speak for Keith, but you definitely don't speak for me and people I know. Dal has a history of building things, I expect that they don't need your money to do so.

Not normally one to chime in. And I only recently joined the site. But I really cannot agree that Keith speaks for the majority. At least not the majority that lives on the peninsula.

Halifax is enjoying amazing progress, growth and development that we never thought would ever happen.

I grew up in Halifax and many of the people that I grew up with have left because of the attraction of living somewhere that was dynamic and forward thinking.

Its the new and different ideas of thought that are driving this growth. For the first time in quite a while, Halifax is actually retaining young adults rather than losing them to parts out west.

I'm afraid that the cynics are now the minority and we all know what Oscar Wilde said about cynics.

[JET]

Not normally one to chime in. And I only recently joined the site. But I really cannot agree that Keith speaks for the majority. At least not the majority that lives on the peninsula.

Halifax is enjoying amazing progress, growth and development that we never thought would ever happen.

I grew up in Halifax and many of the people that I grew up with have left because of the attraction of living somewhere that was dynamic and forward thinking.

Its the new and different ideas of thought that are driving this growth. For the first time in quite a while, Halifax is actually retaining young adults rather than losing them to parts out west.

I'm afraid that the cynics are now the minority and we all know what Oscar Wilde said about cynics.

Welcome to the forum.
I've have wondered who Keith thinks he speaks for, and have been intrigued that he believes that his is the majority opinion.
PS thanks for the Wilde reminder

[Keith P.]

Welcome to the forum.
I've have wondered who Keith thinks he speaks for, and have been intrigued that he believes that his is the majority opinion.
PS thanks for the Wilde reminder

The majority of taxpayers in this town oppose bike lanes.

The same holds true for many of the extremist positions of the EAC.

I am less sure of whether the Heritage Trust and other anti-development groups enjoy as broad a level of support as they once did, but regardless, none of the above deserve publicly-funded space.

I often wonder who some of the "progressive" members here think they speak for when they put forward their positions. Certainly not very many people whom I talk to regularly. Thankfully, the mindset found in universities and planning schools are not broadly held outside those bounds.

[JET]

The majority of taxpayers in this town oppose bike lanes.

The same holds true for many of the extremist positions of the EAC.

I am less sure of whether the Heritage Trust and other anti-development groups enjoy as broad a level of support as they once did, but regardless, none of the above deserve publicly-funded space.

I often wonder who some of the "progressive" members here think they speak for when they put forward their positions. Certainly not very many people whom I talk to regularly. Thankfully, the mindset found in universities and planning schools are not broadly held outside those bounds.

Keith, you can of course provide us with links to those studies that show a lack of support in HRM for bike lanes and the EAC?

"I often wonder who some of the "progressive" members here think they speak for when they put forward their positions. Certainly not very many people whom I talk to regularly. " Keith, I speak for myself, I try not to speak for others. I suspect that you and I don't travel in the same circles; although perhaps roundabouts we might.

[Summerville]

Keith, you can of course provide us with links to those studies that show a lack of support in HRM for bike lanes and the EAC?

"I often wonder who some of the "progressive" members here think they speak for when they put forward their positions. Certainly not very many people whom I talk to regularly. " Keith, I speak for myself, I try not to speak for others. I suspect that you and I don't travel in the same circles; although perhaps roundabouts we might.


I don't see why we can't have a conversation from different viewpoints and meet in the middle. I'll admit that I support the EAC, but I also support fracking and natural resource development. But there has to be a voice from various parts of the population.

You can't develop a society in a vacuum. You need different ideas from different ends of the political spectrum and then you meet in the middle.

But yeah,...I am always hoping the we end up on the left side with the end result. The word "liberal" has been given a bad name. It used to mean that you were open to new ideas and different ways of doing things.

How can you justify making long term decisions in the development of the city without considering all factors or perspectives? You'll end up with another Cogswell interchange.

[Keith P.]

Keith, you can of course provide us with links to those studies that show a lack of support in HRM for bike lanes and the EAC?

"I often wonder who some of the "progressive" members here think they speak for when they put forward their positions. Certainly not very many people whom I talk to regularly. " Keith, I speak for myself, I try not to speak for others. I suspect that you and I don't travel in the same circles; although perhaps roundabouts we might.

I was fully expecting the inevitable "Citation?" response. I gave you my citation in my response. Any study you post showing a majority here in HRM support bike lanes I will debunk because it would have to be bogus.

[JET]

I was fully expecting the inevitable "Citation?" response. I gave you my citation in my response. Any study you post showing a majority here in HRM support bike lanes I will debunk because it would have to be bogus.

A lack of a citation is not a citation. Which is why discussions that include the word "most" usually fall flat.

[someone123]

I think the old library proposal looks great. It is exactly the sort of redevelopment I was hoping would happen. The old building is nice, as is the triangular park, but the site could be put to more use. Turning it into a bigger square park and tearing down the building would be a mistake. The old library is a nice stone building that responds well to the site while the side of St. David would not really do much for the park. This part of downtown Halifax does not need more parkland. It is already half parks. Right next door Artillery Park sites underused, along with the Citadel grounds.

This view in particular shows how nicely it would fit in with the surroundings:

https://images.thestar.com/KqGveaxJVH0vPZMsz1c8VGR8S_E=/1200x671/smart/filters:cb(1542163556260)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/halifax/2018/11/13/new-proposal-for-old-halifax-library-carries-price-tag-of-up-to-30-million/c_181113rc162_9.jpg
From the article: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/11/13/new-proposal-for-old-halifax-library-carries-price-tag-of-up-to-30-million.html

I don't know what the status of the proposal is but there was also a plan for a lowrise building on the parking lot next to St. Mary's Basilica. This area could really come together with consistent medium scale. It also fits in with the idea of building a small civic district around the library with more indoor space that is open to the public.

[OldDartmouthMark]

All things considered, I think this is a very good proposal. The original agreement for it remaining parkland was right for the 1800s but moving forward the lot developed a new history with the Memorial Library - which was quite a step up from what meagre library facilities were available to the general public beforehand.

Maintaining the façade, and perhaps some of the character of the original building would continue that history, as well as the triangulated park area that exists.

I think that the ground floor public space is a great idea, and actually giving the different associations mentioned a place to meet and interact is a good idea.

I won't pretend to speak for the people of Halifax, but from the many people I have spoken with and read from... building heritage, transportation, and the environment are all very important concerns that people have for Halifax. Providing a space for them to exchange ideas, perhaps with the Halifax planning people, seems to be a very good direction in which to go. It may help develop more focused ideas on how to move Halifax forward, rather than be a mishmash of competing idea.

[Keith P.]

All things considered, I think this is a very good proposal. The original agreement for it remaining parkland was right for the 1800s but moving forward the lot developed a new history with the Memorial Library - which was quite a step up from what meagre library facilities were available to the general public beforehand.

Maintaining the façade, and perhaps some of the character of the original building would continue that history, as well as the triangulated park area that exists.

I think that the ground floor public space is a great idea, and actually giving the different associations mentioned a place to meet and interact is a good idea.

I won't pretend to speak for the people of Halifax, but from the many people I have spoken with and read from... building heritage, transportation, and the environment are all very important concerns that people have for Halifax. Providing a space for them to exchange ideas, perhaps with the Halifax planning people, seems to be a very good direction in which to go. It may help develop more focused ideas on how to move Halifax forward, rather than be a mishmash of competing idea.

If HRM isn't paying for the space, let them go to town. But single issue activist groups like the HCC and the HT should not receive funding or benefits from city government, as it makes them an arm of the city and provides their view undue influence. We have seen that already with the EAC.

I have some difficulty with the proposal overall not just from that viewpoint but also from the financial commitment the city would be making without any assurance of a revenue stream. If they are estimating $30 million now I imagine it could easily actually be double that. That is some mighty expensive office space for a bunch of bureaucrats.

[ns_kid]

I'm surprised that no one has yet weighed in on the ask by the Link Performing Arts Society for a $1 million injection from Halifax (and more from the other two levels) to develop a performing arts venue in the old World Trade and Convention Centre.

There are many here who have voiced the need for a larger performance space downtown, but I must admit to some bemusement over this proposal.

Last week's funding request to council (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/standing-committees/181129cped3.pdf) proposes an 1800-seat performance hall that can be "flexibly divided" into smaller spaces. (The society's co-founder, Marc Almon, former head of Screen NS, told CBC (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/13m-cultural-centre-for-halifax-could-be-in-place-by-2020-1.4925826) the space could hold up to 2000.) It would also house a small cinema, a production studio, and couple of dance studios and office space for cultural groups, along with a box office and cafe.

That sounds impressive but the space limitations seem to me to really work against the functionality and appeal of this project. You'll recall that one of the main reasons for abandoning the WTCC as a convention space was its cramped conditions, with low ceilings and numerous pillars. Most of the exhibit spaces have horrible sightlines; the only really suitable space is the grand ballroom (Port Royal Room) on the second floor. According to JDA Architects (http://www.tradecentrelimited.com/site-tcl/media/tradecentrelimited/JDA_Space_Analysis_Report_May-18-2010.pdf) that space is 20,141 sf, but it's broken on both the north and south sides by rows of (big!) pillars that essentially carve 5,040 sf of space from the room. In the centre the room is 19.5 feet high but behind the pillars it's only 16'. The WTCC put the theatre-style seating capacity of that room at less than 1,600, so I'm not sure where the other 200-400 seats are supposed to go.

(By contrast the 1,023-seat Rebecca Cohn (https://www.dal.ca/dept/arts-centre/venue-rental/rent-the-rebecca-cohn/technical-information.html) has a proscenium height of 20'. While I could not find dimensions for the house, based on the drawings I estimate the auditorium around 24.5' at its highest.)

It seems to me that any effort to bring life to that block of Argyle Street is admirable, but this is clearly not the majestic new downtown performance venue some have dreamed about. Waye Mason (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/13m-cultural-centre-for-halifax-could-be-in-place-by-2020-1.4925826) mused about it attracting acts like Wilco and Steve Earle, but I admit to some skepticism about its suitability. My recollection is the acoustics in that place were abysmal; correcting that will be a job in itself.

It also puzzles me that there is no apparent interest in incorporating a significant performance space into the new waterfront art gallery project the premier seems intent on championing.

Other than Neptune's 479-seat main auditorium, and the awful 650 seats in the Casino's Schooner Showroom, there hasn't been a large-capacity performing arts space downtown since the loss of the Capitol in 1974. I sometimes wonder what is says about our culture and economy that the private sector could open a grand 1,980-seat theatre at the height of the Depression but we struggle to find a way to put bums in seats in 2018.

[Keith P.]

The more I look into the WTCC proposal the more I get the impression it is the Khyber boondoggle all over again but on a much grander scale. The building, as you note, is saddled with many design issues that severely compromise its intended use. It really needs either a full gut and rebuild at likely massive cost if it is even possible, or a teardown and rebuild if you want to use it as something like that which is proposed. In its present form it is limited really to office space or conversion to a hotel, perhaps.

The capacity numbers being tossed around are based upon no seats at all - festival style. I cannot imagine being jammed into that room with 1800 standees. A more unpleasant performance experience would be hard to fathom. But that is what Mason, the main cheerleader on Council for all such things, is touting in posts elsewhere. And the business model strikes me more as pie-in-the-sky promises than anything. Profits are going to be hard to find given all of the uses being touted, so forget about any return to whatever other organizations are supposed to benefit.

HRM of course is quick for fork out money to these sort of things but I rather doubt the province would be so generous. I do agree we need a suitable performance venue, but not this half-assed scheme.

[TheNovaScotian]

The more I look into the WTCC proposal the more I get the impression it is the Khyber boondoggle all over again but on a much grander scale. The building, as you note, is saddled with many design issues that severely compromise its intended use. It really needs either a full gut and rebuild at likely massive cost if it is even possible, or a teardown and rebuild if you want to use it as something like that which is proposed. In its present form it is limited really to office space or conversion to a hotel, perhaps.

The capacity numbers being tossed around are based upon no seats at all - festival style. I cannot imagine being jammed into that room with 1800 standees. A more unpleasant performance experience would be hard to fathom. But that is what Mason, the main cheerleader on Council for all such things, is touting in posts elsewhere. And the business model strikes me more as pie-in-the-sky promises than anything. Profits are going to be hard to find given all of the uses being touted, so forget about any return to whatever other organizations are supposed to benefit.

HRM of course is quick for fork out money to these sort of things but I rather doubt the province would be so generous. I do agree we need a suitable performance venue, but not this half-assed scheme.

It definitely is a project I hope doesn't happen. I'd always thought the most reasonable and cost effective way to eventually expand the 40 year old Metro Centre was to re orientate the bowl and use that space for the expansion. This would just give us a new group that expects special treatment.:yuck:

I have to agree with Keith on this one, it's a half baked idea with new performing spaces being built by Dal behind the Rebecca Cohn that would fill that niche for the city. Eventually a new performing arts centre could happen but until then they should focus those funds on furthering a realistic solution, not a band aid solution.

[Spire]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Culture Link project, for several reasons. There is, understandably, a lot of focus on the "concert venue" element of the proposal, but the potential to bring a lot of arts organizations under one roof, with a stable rent structure, is the most exciting part of the proposal to me. Back in the days of the CBC Radio Building on Sackville St., it was home to a bunch of cultural organizations because CBC had a bunch of unused space, and it accidentally ended up being a fantastic sort of "incubator", resulting in a great deal of collaboration and shared ideas between organizations. Now all of those organizations are scattered around the city, often in spaces that aren't particularly suited for their needs. This project could potentially address that, bringing film, music, theatre, and dance organizations together. The dance community, in particular, has had a tough time of it, and this would be a huge upgrade for them. Fredericton's beautiful Charlotte Street Arts Centre, partially an old schoolhouse and partially a new build, is a great example of how this sort of space can work (albeit on a smaller scale).


Most of the exhibit spaces have horrible sightlines; the only really suitable space is the grand ballroom (Port Royal Room) on the second floor. According to JDA Architects that space is 20,141 sf, but it's broken on both the north and south sides by rows of (big!) pillars that essentially carve 5,040 sf of space from the room. In the centre the room is 19.5 feet high but behind the pillars it's only 16'. The WTCC put the theatre-style seating capacity of that room at less than 1,600, so I'm not sure where the other 200-400 seats are supposed to go.

The 1800 figure is for a standing-room crowd, like you'd see at the Marquee - it certainly would only be for a particular type of concert (and not the ones I go to, that's for sure). I honestly don't know why the Culture Link folks are hyping that figure, because it distorts the real purpose and potential of that space. The really interesting part about that space to me is that it would be a fully configurable black box space, configurable for theatre (including theatre-in-the-round), dance, etc...this is a type of space that Halifax has noticeably lacked, and is sorely needed. Currently, we only have the Bus Stop and Studio 1 at the Dal Arts Centre, both of which are tiny and have significant limitations on their suitability and use. And as far as the pillars go, by looking at the preliminary floor plans (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/standing-committees/181129cped3.pdf) for the project (page 23 onwards), they've worked around the pillars. resulting in a space that's around 12,000 Square Feet. I've been in that space numerous times at conventions, and in a converted form, I can imagine the potential - I think it would definitely be an improvement over what's available in the city now.

It also puzzles me that there is no apparent interest in incorporating a significant performance space into the new waterfront art gallery project the premier seems intent on championing.

There was a campaign for a waterfront concert hall several years ago, but as expected, nothing came of it. It would be great if that happened (the Cohn's acoustics are pretty awful for classical music, something that Symphony Nova Scotia have had to live with for years), but I'm not holding my breath.

it's a half baked idea with new performing spaces being built by Dal behind the Rebecca Cohn that would fill that niche for the city.

The new concert hall being built by Dal will be controlled by the Fountain School of Performing Arts, and is primarily for their students' use, for recitals and concerts. It's also going to be acoustically treated and designed for classical music (wood-paneled walls, etc.), which limits its suitability for many other types of music or events. It's a great new facility for them, and for the Scotia Festival of Music, who will certainly move their events there from the Dunn Theatre, but it certainly doesn't address the lack of suitable spaces that the Culture Link project could potentially offer.


Eventually a new performing arts centre could happen but until then they should focus those funds on furthering a realistic solution, not a band aid solution.

I'd love to see something new, built from the ground up, but given our past track record in this city, and the amount of money it would take, I don't think that's ever going to happen. Compared to other cities our size across Canada and North America, we have a lack of suitably-sized and designed performance spaces, for a variety of artistic disciplines. Fredericton, Moncton and Charlottetown all have better-equipped and larger proscenium theatres, for example (the Cohn isn't an equivalent in any way.) We're the largest city in Canada without a permanent independent cinema. We're also set to lose our television studio next year when Studio 1 at CBC Bell Road closes, and this would provide a replacement.

There's still a ton of question marks, no doubt, and I'm not holding my breath that they'll be able to get all of the funding to make it happen, but there is absolutely a need and desire for this sort of facility, whether it is here or somewhere else in the downtown. This seems, to me, like the best shot for the arts community of something actually happening - because it's probably not going to happen any other way.

[someone123]

Reno for the Durty Nelly's exterior:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtXWYdbUUAA5QI9.jpg:large
Source (https://twitter.com/GregZwicker/media)

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Culture Link project, for several reasons. There is, understandably, a lot of focus on the "concert venue" element of the proposal, but the potential to bring a lot of arts organizations under one roof, with a stable rent structure, is the most exciting part of the proposal to me. Back in the days of the CBC Radio Building on Sackville St., it was home to a bunch of cultural organizations because CBC had a bunch of unused space, and it accidentally ended up being a fantastic sort of "incubator", resulting in a great deal of collaboration and shared ideas between organizations. Now all of those organizations are scattered around the city, often in spaces that aren't particularly suited for their needs. This project could potentially address that, bringing film, music, theatre, and dance organizations together. The dance community, in particular, has had a tough time of it, and this would be a huge upgrade for them. Fredericton's beautiful Charlotte Street Arts Centre, partially an old schoolhouse and partially a new build, is a great example of how this sort of space can work (albeit on a smaller scale).



The 1800 figure is for a standing-room crowd, like you'd see at the Marquee - it certainly would only be for a particular type of concert (and not the ones I go to, that's for sure). I honestly don't know why the Culture Link folks are hyping that figure, because it distorts the real purpose and potential of that space. The really interesting part about that space to me is that it would be a fully configurable black box space, configurable for theatre (including theatre-in-the-round), dance, etc...this is a type of space that Halifax has noticeably lacked, and is sorely needed. Currently, we only have the Bus Stop and Studio 1 at the Dal Arts Centre, both of which are tiny and have significant limitations on their suitability and use. And as far as the pillars go, by looking at the preliminary floor plans (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/standing-committees/181129cped3.pdf) for the project (page 23 onwards), they've worked around the pillars. resulting in a space that's around 12,000 Square Feet. I've been in that space numerous times at conventions, and in a converted form, I can imagine the potential - I think it would definitely be an improvement over what's available in the city now.



There was a campaign for a waterfront concert hall several years ago, but as expected, nothing came of it. It would be great if that happened (the Cohn's acoustics are pretty awful for classical music, something that Symphony Nova Scotia have had to live with for years), but I'm not holding my breath.



The new concert hall being built by Dal will be controlled by the Fountain School of Performing Arts, and is primarily for their students' use, for recitals and concerts. It's also going to be acoustically treated and designed for classical music (wood-paneled walls, etc.), which limits its suitability for many other types of music or events. It's a great new facility for them, and for the Scotia Festival of Music, who will certainly move their events there from the Dunn Theatre, but it certainly doesn't address the lack of suitable spaces that the Culture Link project could potentially offer.



I'd love to see something new, built from the ground up, but given our past track record in this city, and the amount of money it would take, I don't think that's ever going to happen. Compared to other cities our size across Canada and North America, we have a lack of suitably-sized and designed performance spaces, for a variety of artistic disciplines. Fredericton, Moncton and Charlottetown all have better-equipped and larger proscenium theatres, for example (the Cohn isn't an equivalent in any way.) We're the largest city in Canada without a permanent independent cinema. We're also set to lose our television studio next year when Studio 1 at CBC Bell Road closes, and this would provide a replacement.

There's still a ton of question marks, no doubt, and I'm not holding my breath that they'll be able to get all of the funding to make it happen, but there is absolutely a need and desire for this sort of facility, whether it is here or somewhere else in the downtown. This seems, to me, like the best shot for the arts community of something actually happening - because it's probably not going to happen any other way.

Thanks for your perspective on this. When I first heard of the proposal, I thought it sounded interesting, but didn't know enough about the current situation to offer an opinion one way or the other. Based on your comments it sounds like a worthwhile project and I hope it works out.

It's a sad commentary that we can't hope for anything better, but this is Halifax, where only the insanely practical projects seem to happen without a huge outcry from the penny-pinchers. All this despite that Nova Scotia is one of the most culturally rich parts of the country.

[someone123]

Thanks for your perspective on this. When I first heard of the proposal, I thought it sounded interesting, but didn't know enough about the current situation to offer an opinion one way or the other. Based on your comments it sounds like a worthwhile project and I hope it works out.

It's a sad commentary that we can't hope for anything better, but this is Halifax, where only the insanely practical projects seem to happen without a huge outcry from the penny-pinchers. All this despite that Nova Scotia is one of the most culturally rich parts of the country.

I feel the same way.

There are a variety of hypothetical projects like this that suit different needs. If the goal is to provide cheap suitable space for a bunch of artists then repurposing an old building is usually the way to go. It would likely be vastly more expensive to provide this type of space in a new purpose-built waterfront cultural complex. I think sometimes people are too quick to complain about projects that are similar to what they have in mind but don't tick all of the boxes when ultimately many similar projects can and should happen.

There is something to be said for strengthening an arts/entertainment district around Argyle. Hopefully if this happens the building renos will make it look more vibrant and inviting and less institutional.

I don't know how practical a Metro Centre reno would be, but I'm generally against leaving central land fallow for long-term planning purposes. We don't really know what future needs will be and these strategies rarely generate a net payoff.

[someone123]

Bad urban design:

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6488088,-63.575646,3a,90y,238.07h,96.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srnQKw6Lx76D662ruIxMyMw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This end of Argyle needs a do-over too. Eventually, this quasi-pedestrian area should connect down through the Grand Parade to the Province House area and onto the waterfront via George Street. The Dockyard Clock area needs an overhaul too.

The little cul-de-sac is pointless. Why not make this a place for people to spend time rather than park their vehicles (go park at the other end that is half surface lots) or spin around when they are lost? The urban realm here is ugly and there is nothing to draw visitors up from the waterfront: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6494283,-63.5715199,3a,90y,217.79h,101.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG1nFXkgPBHwD7HpDLOtwOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656