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Good Baklava

Feb 6, 2021, 6:50 AM

It's this "sky is falling" mindset - that everybody aspires to this type of urban planner nirvana - that frustrates me. I understand the need for tall buildings and density in the core of the city, but damn, not everybody aspires to live in an apartment or condo. It's great for those that do, but when urban enthusiasts appear to suggest that there shouldn't be areas for people to live in a house with a back yard, or shouldn't be able to use a car to get to where they need to go... in Canada of all places, a country with large land areas and not the type of crowding that has become necessary in European countries with small land areas and large populations... I get turned off.

But hey, that's just my :2cents:

I agree with TheNovaScotian’s goal of limiting suburban development. I also agree with your frustration about the sky is falling mindset. Good planning shouldn’t be about any specific approach to spatial ordering. I think individuals with different perceptions of urban space should have the right to collectively change the city, since in return our city defines who we are. A good planner should work to realize those citizen ideas within the confines of local realities.

Back to houses versus apartments... Even large Chinese cities have suburban single detached homes (albeit for the wealthy), so I don’t think anyone is advocating for their elimination. I do think they should be considered somewhat of a luxury, but I picture that occurring gradually over an extended period of time. I also agree with someone123 that towers don’t necessarily eliminate all the problems associated with servicing suburban homes. Many of the suburban towers in HFX have essentially reproduced the same car dependent urban form, and not even with that much density since they’re so spread out from each other. I don’t think the root of the walkable question is towers versus houses.

atbw

Feb 6, 2021, 3:21 PM

Many of the suburban towers in HFX have essentially reproduced the same car dependent urban form, and not even with that much density since they’re so spread out from each other. I don’t think the root of the walkable question is towers versus houses.

This is something that has really skewed the discourse on urban towers. Cries of "but the traffic!" seem to be based on the tower-on-a-garage model in Clayton Park West & Washmill Lake. When I lived in a tower downtown, the garage was maybe 3/4 full. Based off the .6-.7 spots per unit I've heard, that's a huge portion of the building that doesn't use a car at all.

It's less about the style of building and moreso how that building interacts with its neighbourhood and density of services. The Centre Plan is pretty mixed-use heavy and does open up the ability to have more shops and services in historically single-family-dominated neighbourhoods.

I will be curious to see how policy can allow suburbs become better served and more walkable.

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 6, 2021, 3:57 PM

I agree with TheNovaScotian’s goal of limiting suburban development. I also agree with your frustration about the sky is falling mindset. Good planning shouldn’t be about any specific approach to spatial ordering. I think individuals with different perceptions of urban space should have the right to collectively change the city, since in return our city defines who we are. A good planner should work to realize those citizen ideas within the confines of local realities.

Back to houses versus apartments... Even large Chinese cities have suburban single detached homes (albeit for the wealthy), so I don’t think anyone is advocating for their elimination. I do think they should be considered somewhat of a luxury, but I picture that occurring gradually over an extended period of time. I also agree with someone123 that towers don’t necessarily eliminate all the problems associated with servicing suburban homes. Many of the suburban towers in HFX have essentially reproduced the same car dependent urban form, and not even with that much density since they’re so spread out from each other. I don’t think the root of the walkable question is towers versus houses.

All good points, but your comment about cities with houses, but only for the rich, pinpoints the mindset that frustrates me. Is this really the direction that we want to take? IMHO, in Canada you should not have to be one of the privileged wealthy if you want to live in a house.

Not everybody wants to live in an apartment or condo, and cities should be planned well so that other options are available, and as someone123 says, it shouldn't take massive changes to improve the situation.

And yes, the sky won't fall if Halifax doesn't become a dense urban centre with bicycles and buses being the only way to get around. It's really a nice place to live now. Today. Even without any changes. I think that's why this forum has numerous participants who live elsewhere yet still maintain an affinity for the city. We all want it to be better, but there are as many versions of 'better' as there are people who think about it. Hopefully we get the version of 'better' that gives as many people the type of lifestyle that they desire as possible. That's all I was trying to say.

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 6, 2021, 4:06 PM

This is something that has really skewed the discourse on urban towers. Cries of "but the traffic!" seem to be based on the tower-on-a-garage model in Clayton Park West & Washmill Lake. When I lived in a tower downtown, the garage was maybe 3/4 full. Based off the .6-.7 spots per unit I've heard, that's a huge portion of the building that doesn't use a car at all.

It's less about the style of building and moreso how that building interacts with its neighbourhood and density of services. The Centre Plan is pretty mixed-use heavy and does open up the ability to have more shops and services in historically single-family-dominated neighbourhoods.

I will be curious to see how policy can allow suburbs become better served and more walkable.

I think this is what everybody wants in the long run. Hopefully it can be achieved.

Good Baklava

Feb 6, 2021, 7:46 PM

All good points, but your comment about cities with houses, but only for the rich, pinpoints the mindset that frustrates me. Is this really the direction that we want to take? IMHO, in Canada you should not have to be one of the privileged wealthy if you want to live in a house.

I realize in hindsight “somewhat of a luxury” is non-specific and tone deaf. I think if houses were only for the rich, you would end up with a segregated city. I know all forms housing are overpriced at this moment, but I think suburban developments have historically been underpriced (although that made sense at one point in time). I also think multi-unit buildings have never competed with single detached homes because we’ve built them under the assumption it’s a step down and their design reflects that.

My solution would entail higher fees on greenfield development, but subsidies for brownfield development. While new land would be more expensive to build on, the price of individual homes could be counteracted by smaller lot sizes.

Good Baklava

Feb 7, 2021, 12:30 AM

And yes, the sky won't fall if Halifax doesn't become a dense urban centre with bicycles and buses being the only way to get around. It's really a nice place to live now. Today. Even without any changes. I think that's why this forum has numerous participants who live elsewhere yet still maintain an affinity for the city. We all want it to be better, but there are as many versions of 'better' as there are people who think about it. Hopefully we get the version of 'better' that gives as many people the type of lifestyle that they desire as possible. That's all I was trying to say.

Agreed. Most Ontarian cities lack personality and are pretty monolithic compared to Halifax.

someone123

Feb 7, 2021, 12:47 AM

Agreed. Most Ontarian cities lack personality and are pretty monolithic compared to Halifax.

This is one of those "things you can't say" on SSP! The perspective in the Canada section tends to be heavily based around population numbers (or some other statistics of limited import like hotel nights sold or number of cruise ship passengers) but when comparing towns from different regions they are often qualitatively quite different even if they have a similar population. At a given population you might be talking about a regional centre and capital in one region versus a minor suburb or satellite factory town in another region. Western Canada also has some incredibly bland large-ish places, and there are some small cities and towns that are quite cool.

Around the world the gap is even bigger. Florence is around the same ballpark as Brampton but they are not similar from an urbanism or cultural and historical perspective.

NS has small-ish areas that are generic like Sackville or Cole Harbour but no 500,000 person areas because there just isn't enough development.

For what it's worth I tend to think of Halifax as a kind of mini Toronto or mini Vancouver (a full service city of regional importance with some history and local distinctiveness) rather than just being the "cousin" of whatever Canadian city happens to have a CMA population that is close.

Good Baklava

Feb 7, 2021, 1:21 AM

This is one of those "things you can't say" on SSP! The perspective in the Canada section tends to be heavily based around population numbers (or some other statistics of limited import like hotel nights sold or number of cruise ship passengers) but when comparing towns from different regions they are often qualitatively quite different even if they have a similar population. At a given population you might be talking about a regional centre and capital in one region versus a minor suburb or satellite factory town in another region. Western Canada also has some incredibly bland large-ish places, and there are some small cities and towns that are quite cool.

Around the world the gap is even bigger. Florence is around the same ballpark as Brampton but they are not similar from an urbanism or cultural and historical perspective.

NS has small-ish areas that are generic like Sackville or Cole Harbour but no 500,000 person areas because there just isn't enough development.

For what it's worth I tend to think of Halifax as a kind of mini Toronto or mini Vancouver (a full service city of regional importance with some history and local distinctiveness) rather than just being the "cousin" of whatever Canadian city happens to have a CMA population that is close.

I thought living there would give me a free pass. I could say the same thing in more generic and diplomatic terms no? Such as “Varied architecture, more neighbourhood types, diverse assembly of heritage buildings, scenic rural areas.” I do agree much of the perceived “blandness” owes itself to being either a bedroom community, or everything being built in the same era. I know there are many interesting cities and towns in Ontario as well.

someone123

Feb 7, 2021, 1:44 AM

I thought living there would give me a free pass. I could say the same thing in more generic and diplomatic terms no? Such as “Varied architecture, more neighbourhood types, diverse assembly of heritage buildings, scenic rural areas.” I do agree much of the perceived “blandness” owes itself to being either a bedroom community, or everything being built in the same era. I know there are many interesting cities and towns in Ontario as well.

I didn't mean that you are not allowed, I meant (somewhat jokingly) that depending on who reads it you might see a bunch of strident replies denying that you are talking about any real difference.

The dominant narrative of SSP Canada is something along the lines of there being "tiers" of cities that correspond to CMA population numbers. Tier 1 for some reason is Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver (even though Toronto is more than 2x Vancouver and more of a national hub). Then there's Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa. Then Quebec, Hamilton, and Winnipeg. And Halifax is in the "tier" of St. Catharine's, London, or K-W (but maybe it's a stretch to put it with London because the London CMA has around 100,000 more people).

K-W is an interesting one because while it is bland and could have easily grown as a completely generic suburban blob it's retained the feel of a separate metro and Waterloo has given it a bit of unique cachet. Plus it has the light rail now.

Good Baklava

Feb 7, 2021, 5:03 AM

I didn't mean that you are not allowed, I meant (somewhat jokingly) that depending on who reads it you might see a bunch of strident replies denying that you are talking about any real difference.

The dominant narrative of SSP Canada is something along the lines of there being "tiers" of cities that correspond to CMA population numbers. Tier 1 for some reason is Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver (even though Toronto is more than 2x Vancouver and more of a national hub). Then there's Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa. Then Quebec, Hamilton, and Winnipeg. And Halifax is in the "tier" of St. Catharine's, London, or K-W (but maybe it's a stretch to put it with London because the London CMA has around 100,000 more people).

K-W is an interesting one because while it is bland and could have easily grown as a completely generic suburban blob it's retained the feel of a separate metro and Waterloo has given it a bit of unique cachet. Plus it has the light rail now.

Ah... I understand now (had me scared for a second). I certainly feel safer singing odes to Halifax here than I would in the Canada section. I see how making such a statement about Ontario could invite a lot of flak.

I did not know the tier dynamic existed in the Canada section but it doesn’t supprise me. I think only relying on quantitative information is easier but overlooks historical or political importance. I think Halifax has a good combination of those two. Even when evaluating by economic importance, the sectors a city specializes in can give a unique feel. I know countries with actual city tiers don’t choose their rankings on population alone.

While bland overall the different parts of KW have some distinct traits from each other and the LRT is a big source of civic pride for region. Waterloo feels mostly like one big tech park with a skyline dominated by student housing, surrounded by a sea of 2000s-period suburban homes. “Uptown Waterloo” somewhat resembles a polished version of Portland street. Downtown Kitchener gives a similar vibe to downtown Moncton, but with some newer buildings. The conserved industrial era buildings give it a degree distinctiveness. Cambridge has the best heritage out of the three, but lacks any vibrancy. That’s my summary of where I live.

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 8, 2021, 1:25 PM

This is one of those "things you can't say" on SSP! The perspective in the Canada section tends to be heavily based around population numbers (or some other statistics of limited import like hotel nights sold or number of cruise ship passengers) but when comparing towns from different regions they are often qualitatively quite different even if they have a similar population. At a given population you might be talking about a regional centre and capital in one region versus a minor suburb or satellite factory town in another region. Western Canada also has some incredibly bland large-ish places, and there are some small cities and towns that are quite cool.

Around the world the gap is even bigger. Florence is around the same ballpark as Brampton but they are not similar from an urbanism or cultural and historical perspective.

NS has small-ish areas that are generic like Sackville or Cole Harbour but no 500,000 person areas because there just isn't enough development.

For what it's worth I tend to think of Halifax as a kind of mini Toronto or mini Vancouver (a full service city of regional importance with some history and local distinctiveness) rather than just being the "cousin" of whatever Canadian city happens to have a CMA population that is close.

Excellent points. I hadn't thought of things quite in that perspective, but yeah, I have to agree.

LOL on the Canada section being somewhat Ontario-centric... don't even suggest in the Covid-19 thread that the Atlantic Provinces may have had a better response to the pandemic than Ontario even though the data suggests otherwise... :surrender:

:haha:

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 8, 2021, 1:55 PM

I realize in hindsight “somewhat of a luxury” is non-specific and tone deaf. I think if houses were only for the rich, you would end up with a segregated city. I know all forms housing are overpriced at this moment, but I think suburban developments have historically been underpriced (although that made sense at one point in time). I also think multi-unit buildings have never competed with single detached homes because we’ve built them under the assumption it’s a step down and their design reflects that.

My solution would entail higher fees on greenfield development, but subsidies for brownfield development. While new land would be more expensive to build on, the price of individual homes could be counteracted by smaller lot sizes.

Makes sense.

I recognize that it's a complex situation, and everybody has their personal preferences. My expectation would be to pay a little more for a house than a condo/apartment, with the tradeoff of having a less convenient location.

I've noticed in Halifax that new construction tends to be either multi-unit buildings or McMansion-type houses (anecdotally), and the taller, narrower houses on smaller lots seem to have fallen by the wayside. I'm not sure what that says, or if it says anything, but it seems like we may be heading in the direction of houses being targeted to high-income people, and multi-unit for the rest. Of course the current inventory of smaller houses will still exist, but their prices will likely be driven up due to competition in the average middle-income segment.

someone123

Feb 8, 2021, 5:00 PM

LOL on the Canada section being somewhat Ontario-centric... don't even suggest in the Covid-19 thread that the Atlantic Provinces may have had a better response to the pandemic than Ontario even though the data suggests otherwise... :surrender:

Covid has really brought out the stereotypes and prejudiced thinking. There are so many known and unknown variables that determine what places have done better or worse, but it is easy to project one's own biases onto the case numbers. There also seems to be a big bias toward believing (wanting to believe) that humans are always in control and there is someone to blame when things don't go well. I think people will be writing books about this pandemic for years, and the typical perspective a few years out will be completely different from what it is today. I also think people are getting a little crazy and agitated from limited in-person contact and lots of internet communication. At least on SSP the posts are not surfaced or hidden by algorithms in order to agitate people to increase engagement. We agitate ourselves without any help. :)

someone123

Feb 8, 2021, 7:31 PM

I thought this view was interesting. It is one of the worst angles downtown for showing empty lots and not-so-great buildings like MetroPark, but the empty lots are all development sites. Skye, Ralston, and AGNS.

https://i.imgur.com/Ndny6Lm.jpg
Source (https://www.instagram.com/p/CLB-y6mncW3/)

alps

Feb 9, 2021, 3:29 AM

https://i.imgur.com/ffmC3hT.jpg
(source (https://twitter.com/BenMacLeod/status/1358761234884009992/photo/1))

I thought this view was interesting. It is one of the worst angles downtown for showing empty lots and not-so-great buildings like MetroPark, but the empty lots are all development sites. Skye, Ralston, and AGNS.

Nice shot. This area will feel so different once all the lots are developed.

Good Baklava

Feb 9, 2021, 9:24 PM

https://i.imgur.com/ffmC3hT.jpg
(source (https://twitter.com/BenMacLeod/status/1358761234884009992/photo/1))

Nice shot. This area will feel so different once all the lots are developed.

Neat, I wonder how dramatic the changes would be in certain districts. Something I’m sure we’ll be looking out for in the next census.

Dmajackson

Feb 9, 2021, 10:03 PM

teddifax

Feb 10, 2021, 3:10 AM

someone123

Feb 10, 2021, 3:14 AM

Dartguard

Feb 10, 2021, 4:05 AM

That graph definitely shows that Halifax has a major military presence. The growth from WWI and WWII are clearly visible. From 1911-1921 roughly 12'000 new residents despite the explosion wiping out a large chunk of the peninsula and roughly 2'000 lives.

The graph also shows however that Halifax missed the roaring Twenties. While the rest on N/A was booming, especially after the great War ,Halifax went into a post War and Explosion influenced decline. Keep in mind that 2000 were killed instantly with another 9,000 or so with permanent life altering injuries. The graph shows that folks obviously left Halifax in the Twenties.

I think another obvious observation is the decline of Peninsula population after the Macdonald bridge was built in the late Fifties.

someone123

Feb 10, 2021, 4:41 AM

Mi'kmaw Native Friendship Centre affordable housing project on College Street approved:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Et0dPO_XIAIlUFO?format=jpg&name=medium
Source (https://twitter.com/zwoodford/status/1359274873588228096)

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 10, 2021, 6:50 AM

The graph also shows however that Halifax missed the roaring Twenties. While the rest on N/A was booming, especially after the great War ,Halifax went into a post War and Explosion influenced decline. Keep in mind that 2000 were killed instantly with another 9,000 or so with permanent life altering injuries. The graph shows that folks obviously left Halifax in the Twenties.

I think another obvious observation is the decline of Peninsula population after the Macdonald bridge was built in the late Fifties.

Macdonald bridge opened in 1955.

I also wonder how much was due to the movement of neighborhoods/families due to the 'slum clearance' and Harbour Drive project at the time.

Keith P.

Feb 10, 2021, 12:37 PM

Keith P.

Feb 10, 2021, 12:40 PM

I believe it is under a view plane unfortunately (the George's Island one, which is worthwhile). I wonder if the shift to residential and trend toward building underground parking will eventually reduce the need for the parkade.

I remember when it was built and at that time there was still a notion that downtown competed partly based on ease of parking. If Barrington were to be successful, you would need to be able to easily find a parking spot. Maybe Eaton's would come back and people would drive down to buy vacuums or something. It seems dated now.

I have used MetroPark numerous times. It is about the only place to park if you are doing business in Maritime Centre. It is also useful if you are trying to patronize the handful of retail shops on Barrington, or are willing to walk up to Argyle to eat in a restaurant. It is also useful if you are doing business along Hollis. I know that often the only available space is on the upper level so it gets well-used.

Drybrain

Feb 10, 2021, 1:29 PM

Looks like a jail correctional institution.

I don't see that at all. The small-ish windows could probably be bigger or more numerous, but otherwise it looks more graceful and attractive than 90 percent of the private condo/apartment developments going up.

mleblanc

Feb 10, 2021, 1:55 PM

I don't see that at all. The small-ish windows could probably be bigger or more numerous, but otherwise it looks more graceful and attractive than 90 percent of the private condo/apartment developments going up.

Agreed. I'm not sure how one would even get jailhouse vibes from this. It's a curved wooden building? Definitely better than most of what's going up lately.

Franco401

Feb 10, 2021, 2:09 PM

In general, anything that anyone says "looks like a prison" never does. I like it.

Saul Goode

Feb 10, 2021, 2:32 PM

I remember when it was built and at that time there was still a notion that downtown competed partly based on ease of parking. If Barrington were to be successful, you would need to be able to easily find a parking spot. Maybe Eaton's would come back and people would drive down to buy vacuums or something. It seems dated now.

MetroPark isn't even 20 years old. I don't think anyone in 2002, when it opened, believed there was a ghost of a chance that Eatons or any other large department store would ever relocate downtown or that Barrington would again become the shopping destination it once was. That ship sailed decades before that.

Saul Goode

Feb 10, 2021, 2:36 PM

In general, anything that anyone says "looks like a prison" never does. I like it.

I don't think it looks like any prison I've ever seen, but I still think it's butt-ugly.

someone123

Feb 10, 2021, 5:35 PM

MetroPark isn't even 20 years old. I don't think anyone in 2002, when it opened, believed there was a ghost of a chance that Eatons or any other large department store would ever relocate downtown or that Barrington would again become the shopping destination it once was. That ship sailed decades before that.

Have a look at old DHBC commentaries from that period, if they are still online. When MEC opened it was presented as a bit of a resurgence for the area as a "destination", and parking was discussed as an important component of that. In those days there was a trend of American cities subsidizing anchor stores downtown too. The planning thought and conceptualization of downtown was different from today.

Gottingen and Spring Garden Road had the same type of planning, with municipal parking provided nearby. The idea being that they were something like strip malls or shopping destinations that you would drive up to. These days the SGR lots are gone and I doubt the Gottingen parking deck has any impact on the vibrancy of the commercial strip.

someone123

Feb 10, 2021, 5:39 PM

I have used MetroPark numerous times. It is about the only place to park if you are doing business in Maritime Centre.

The Maritime Centre is getting some underground parking, right? Then the Nova Centre has parking, presumably the Ralston redevelopment will have parking. Not sure if Jade will have any public spots.

Saul Goode

Feb 10, 2021, 5:41 PM

When MEC opened it was presented as a bit of a resurgence for the area, and parking was discussed as an important component of that. In those days there was a trend of American cities subsidizing anchor stores downtown too.

Yes, I remember it well. There was lots of hope. And seeing MEC open was encouraging. But I repeat: I don't think any serious-minded person seriously thought that department stores or other large retailers were suddenly going to relocate downtown, or that it would somehow become an everyday shopping location again. And indeed they haven't, and it hasn't.

NS Bayman

Feb 10, 2021, 6:20 PM

I wonder if MetroPark can itself be redesigned, and maybe built up on, any way to make it look less like a parkade. Was it designed so that maybe something could be built on top? If it was expanded and redesigned, maybe it could provide parking for the Texpark redevelopment...It just seems as wasted space to be used only for a parkade.

It would be interesting if they built something like what they proposed in St. John's next to Atlantic Place a while back.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/hotel-garage-debate-downtown-stjohns-1.4820635

I think another obvious observation is the decline of Peninsula population after the Macdonald bridge was built in the late Fifties.

I get a kick out of this statement (not that you are wrong or anything). Here we all are discussing a new MacKay bridge and/or a possible third harbour crossing, while also strategizing how to increase urban density on the peninsula. It is a bit ironic that the data (as vague as it is) points to a population drop on the peninsula after the first bridge was built. Maybe we should remove ways to get on and off the peninsula to increase population/density? :shrug:

I have used MetroPark numerous times. It is about the only place to park if you are doing business in Maritime Centre. It is also useful if you are trying to patronize the handful of retail shops on Barrington, or are willing to walk up to Argyle to eat in a restaurant. It is also useful if you are doing business along Hollis. I know that often the only available space is on the upper level so it gets well-used.

Metro Park is my goto garage when the weather isn't too brutal outside. They have decent rates after 5pm, I think. I will park there sometimes even if I am going to the... cough, cough ... Metro Centre for an event.

The Maritime Centre is getting some underground parking, right? Then the Nova Centre has parking, presumably the Ralston redevelopment will have parking. Not sure if Jade will have any public spots.

Despite my comment above, I have been parking at the Nova Centre more recently. I like that it is heated, but the rates I think are the highest in the city. It is also a pain to get in and out of with one 24hr elevator and no stairs (at least I have never seen any stairs open after hours). Will only park here if the weather is garbage and we are eating near Argyle.

Jonovision

Feb 10, 2021, 8:17 PM

I tried parking in the Nova Centre about a year ago and it was horrible. Not only very expensive but also impossible to find a way out of the garage. The wayfinding is horrible and after hours (which is likely most of the time now) only one of the exits was usable. The other elevators were not working.

Over Christmas though I did park underneath the Doyle and that was quite nice. Wasn't expensive and the exit was very easy and clearly marked. Although the ramp down into it is quite a doozy!

Keith P.

Feb 11, 2021, 12:26 PM

I tried parking in the Nova Centre about a year ago and it was horrible. Not only very expensive but also impossible to find a way out of the garage. The wayfinding is horrible and after hours (which is likely most of the time now) only one of the exits was usable. The other elevators were not working.

I have never been able to find my way into the Nova Centre garage. Thankfully I seldom go downtown. A place best avoided by motorists these days.

Keith P.

Feb 13, 2021, 1:27 PM

Banc is the successful bidder for the old St. Pat's site on Quinpool, at just over $37 million. The AllNS story has some conflicting information on timelines. At one point Alex Halef is quoted as "start construction within 10-12 months", but it also says he doesn't want to rush into things, and their Wellington Street project and Robies Street Ultramar project will come first.

Oh, joy. Peggy Cameron is back in the news, wanting this site to become an urban farm. She must have her media friends on speed dial.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/new-look-for-halifax-s-quinpool-road-sparks-some-criticism-1.5306455?fbclid=IwAR1ROz_87r78CLbQzEbtz6tT_DBpyJ5Xej4xzVZuCVX-Kl8jT6K8pXMhdFI

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 13, 2021, 3:05 PM

I concur on the Nova Centre parking. It's expensive and there's only 1 elevator at the north side of the lot that will take you outside. I have had no problem getting in and out, though, but you do have to be careful as the entrance/exit is also a pedestrian area.

I'll still use it, but only in exceptional circumstances.

Summerville

Feb 13, 2021, 3:09 PM

Oh, joy. Peggy Cameron is back in the news, wanting this site to become an urban farm. She must have her media friends on speed dial.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/new-look-for-halifax-s-quinpool-road-sparks-some-criticism-1.5306455?fbclid=IwAR1ROz_87r78CLbQzEbtz6tT_DBpyJ5Xej4xzVZuCVX-Kl8jT6K8pXMhdFI

Actually,... I think that she was talking in the past tense. As in they didn’t want the city to sell the site. Which they have now done.

But yes,...she wants to put the breaks on the construction of new buildings.

teddifax

Feb 13, 2021, 5:43 PM

I saw that report with Peggy Cameron... what kind of hold does she have or think she has to have entire areas of the city put on hold so she can dictate what can be done with the site.... tell her to get a real job!

someone123

Feb 13, 2021, 5:53 PM

But yes,...she wants to put the breaks on the construction of new buildings.

The green or public space argument does not hold much water for the St. Pat's site. The Commons are right next door. This part of town has some of the best access to outdoor public space and historically it's been underused and poorly developed.

Recently there was that population chart showing that the peninsula has lost considerable population since the 50's peak. Adding 30,000 people would only be a return to the 1950 era population (maybe a bit higher but that 30,000 includes Dartmouth so it could be lower). The idea that there is a general shortage of public space and the city should be aggressively adding more wherever possible is not compelling.

There might be narrow demands for more space, particular parts of town missing particular amenities (e.g. playground is a 20 minute walk away so it would be good to add a new one somewhere), but we don't hear so much about those specific complaints and they are generally not applicable to the southern half of the peninsula, which is one of the nicest parts of the country for parks.

worldlyhaligonian

Feb 14, 2021, 2:03 AM

The green or public space argument does not hold much water for the St. Pat's site. The Commons are right next door. This part of town has some of the best access to outdoor public space and historically it's been underused and poorly developed.

Recently there was that population chart showing that the peninsula has lost considerable population since the 50's peak. Adding 30,000 people would only be a return to the 1950 era population (maybe a bit higher but that 30,000 includes Dartmouth so it could be lower). The idea that there is a general shortage of public space and the city should be aggressively adding more wherever possible is not compelling.

There might be narrow demands for more space, particular parts of town missing particular amenities (e.g. playground is a 20 minute walk away so it would be good to add a new one somewhere), but we don't hear so much about those specific complaints and they are generally not applicable to the southern half of the peninsula, which is one of the nicest parts of the country for parks.

Cogswell park, severely underdeveloped, is right across the street.

Good Baklava

Feb 14, 2021, 11:22 AM

I don’t remember Peggy ever giving one statistic about Halifax’s green space. She frequently brings up the area per resident argument without saying how Halifax compares to any recommended average. If she bothered to look at which districts lack green space, she would come to the realization her group has been neglecting those most in need of improved parks. Talk about privilege...

A problem with the area-to-person ratio is that it fails to measure how accessible these green spaces are.

I’m all for urban gardens, just not Cameron’s brand of urban garden.

Citizen_Bane

Feb 16, 2021, 2:17 AM

Nice to see some progress on the waterfront boardwalk.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50948289126_8d54651e4e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kC8im3)Pier 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2kC8im3) by Citizen Bane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187746917@N03/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50947590553_d68d0c2b61_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kC4HFF)Pier 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2kC4HFF) by Citizen Bane (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187746917@N03/), on Flickr

Dmajackson

Feb 20, 2021, 4:13 AM

ns_kid

Feb 20, 2021, 4:50 PM

Small new project for 6459 Bayers Road (northside between Oxford and Connolly). It's 5 floors and 8 units.

Case 23161 (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/community-councils/210224rccc1021.pdf)

I don't know that there's any strength to the appeal. But, man, that proposed building is ugly, in my opinion. That will stand out like a sore thumb on a block of modest one and two-storey homes. Was the architect aiming to emulate a old Jacob Street tenement?

Saul Goode

Feb 20, 2021, 5:04 PM

Was the architect aiming to emulate a old Jacob Street tenement?

I think that comment nails it. Looks like a cheap reproduction of the way I remember Halifax as a young kid - which I don't mean as a compliment.

Drybrain

Feb 20, 2021, 5:22 PM

I don't know that there's any strength to the appeal. But, man, that proposed building is ugly, in my opinion. That will stand out like a sore thumb on a block of modest one and two-storey homes. Was the architect aiming to emulate a old Jacob Street tenement?

I have to disagree--I think this is exactly the scale of intensification we should be seeing on some residential streets. Small enough not to overwhelm but big enough to make a real difference in local density (if replicated often enough).

The problem for me is just how obviously tacky and cheap this will look, covered in Hardieplank, and that awful ubiquitous metal siding used on everything now.

Corker

Feb 20, 2021, 9:14 PM

I don't know that there's any strength to the appeal. But, man, that proposed building is ugly, in my opinion. That will stand out like a sore thumb on a block of modest one and two-storey homes.

While at the moment it is a block of one and two storey homes, it is directly across the street from the six storey Bayers & Young project, for which demolition is now underway, and there are several other projects proposed for this strip of Bayers Road between Connaught and Windsor.

Dmajackson

Feb 20, 2021, 11:58 PM

Drove by 6459 Bayers today and the house is gone and the demolition fencing remains.

atbw

Feb 21, 2021, 9:22 PM

I have to disagree--I think this is exactly the scale of intensification we should be seeing on some residential streets. Small enough not to overwhelm but big enough to make a real difference in local density (if replicated often enough).

The problem for me is just how obviously tacky and cheap this will look, covered in Hardieplank, and that awful ubiquitous metal siding used on everything now.

I agree. No problem with the size. This looks like something that was designed in the Sims, though.

MeEtc

Feb 25, 2021, 1:23 AM

Multiple buildings at corner of Robie and May have had utilities cut, demolition will likely start soon. Talked to the owner of the barbershop, says he has to be gone by Saturday this week.

https://i.imgur.com/6zNrmby_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium (https://i.imgur.com/6zNrmby.jpg)

https://i.imgur.com/C5w0sSu_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium (https://i.imgur.com/C5w0sSu.jpg)

https://i.imgur.com/FGdz9iM_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium (https://i.imgur.com/FGdz9iM.jpg)

https://i.imgur.com/OYHUiw5_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium (https://i.imgur.com/OYHUiw5.jpg)

Photos taken today, February 24. Click for high-res.

MeEtc

Feb 25, 2021, 1:29 AM

This is going to be the North End Animal Hospital (https://www.facebook.com/northendanimalhospital/) by the owners of Eastern Passage Village Veterinary Hospital, and East Hants Animal Hospital.

Construction is progressing.

https://i.imgur.com/xSKL7r7_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium (https://i.imgur.com/xSKL7r7.jpg)

https://i.imgur.com/JgqLib1_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium (https://i.imgur.com/JgqLib1.jpg)

someone123

Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 AM

Multiple buildings at corner of Robie and May have had utilities cut, demolition will likely start soon. Talked to the owner of the barbershop, says he has to be gone by Saturday this week.

Yikes. I didn't know that side of the street was going too. Is this a separate site or just more parking for the car dealer across the street?

Once these fine-grained historic areas are gone they're gone. 3/4 of Halifax is car-oriented suburbia. This makes little sense from a planning or public good perspective. Farther down this block, the Bloomfield site continues to crumble.

midasmull

Feb 25, 2021, 1:49 PM

Yikes. I didn't know that side of the street was going too. Is this a separate site or just more parking for the car dealer across the street?

Once these fine-grained historic areas are gone they're gone. 3/4 of Halifax is car-oriented suburbia. This makes little sense from a planning or public good perspective. Farther down this block, the Bloomfield site continues to crumble.

That's a separate site - the large, cleared lot behind are owned by the same company so it's presumably going to be a contiguous development stretching from (but not including) Coastal Cafe to the intersection of May St and Fern Lane.

MeEtc

Feb 25, 2021, 1:53 PM

Yikes. I didn't know that side of the street was going too. Is this a separate site or just more parking for the car dealer across the street?

Once these fine-grained historic areas are gone they're gone. 3/4 of Halifax is car-oriented suburbia. This makes little sense from a planning or public good perspective. Farther down this block, the Bloomfield site continues to crumble.

I read somewhere that the centre plan explicitly states that existing buildings cannot be bulldozed to make way for parking lots/structures.

Drybrain

Feb 25, 2021, 2:05 PM

Once these fine-grained historic areas are gone they're gone. 3/4 of Halifax is car-oriented suburbia. This makes little sense from a planning or public good perspective. Farther down this block, the Bloomfield site continues to crumble.

Yes, it's really frustrating. But yeah, as others said, I'm pretty certain this has nothing to do with Steele, and the owner of this property has previously said this will be a development, not a parking lot. It is a little upsetting to see this great little row of houses knocked down, but hopefully whatever is built compensates for the loss.

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 25, 2021, 3:25 PM

Yes, it's really frustrating. But yeah, as others said, I'm pretty certain this has nothing to do with Steele, and the owner of this property has previously said this will be a development, not a parking lot. It is a little upsetting to see this great little row of houses knocked down, but hopefully whatever is built compensates for the loss.

It's a shame, as the ones on May St. appear to be generally well-kept and even detailed, though likely needing a refresh. I've been in the large grey one on Robie, as it used to house a business, and I can say that it was in somewhat of a state of disrepair with little of its original details left. IIRC, the staircase wasn't even level anymore, so it would have required a lot of work that there probably wasn't an appetite for in Halifax.

I agree with someone123 in that these fine grained historic neighbourhoods are slowly being chipped away from and once they are gone they are gone. For me, the sad part is that I can be 99% sure that it won't be replaced with (in my view) good/interesting architecture (I hope they prove me wrong). So even though it won't be another parking lot I don't see it as a huge improvement for the character of the city. There will be a functional improvement for population density, though.

I suppose as long as the low vacancy rate combined with the growing population creates a supply/demand imbalance, we will continue to see the smaller, cheaper heritage properties being razed to create apartment/condo buildings. And, as long as it's easy to do in Halifax, it will be business as usual.

Keith P.

Feb 25, 2021, 4:05 PM

One hopes that the development plans sent to HRM for approval came back with a requirement to allow some setback from Robie, since that stretch is the bottleneck preventing any meaningful upgrades to the street.

MeEtc

Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

Viewpoint shows the five properties facing May st were sold collectively in 2019 for a cool $3.5 million

someone123

Feb 25, 2021, 5:00 PM

I agree with someone123 in that these fine grained historic neighbourhoods are slowly being chipped away from and once they are gone they are gone. For me, the sad part is that I can be 99% sure that it won't be replaced with (in my view) good/interesting architecture (I hope they prove me wrong). So even though it won't be another parking lot I don't see it as a huge improvement for the character of the city. There will be a functional improvement for population density, though.

These areas are not just being chipped away, they are mostly gone already, and the question is whether to save 40% of the stock or 30% and then have that dwindle to 20%. Halifax has done a remarkably poor job of heritage preservation given how historic it is. It is probably the worst city in Canada for losses of rare and unusually old buildings. I suspect it has bulldozed more Georgian era buildings than any other city in Canada. May Street is not so distinctive but it was a delightful little intrusion of fine-grained heritage buildings into what's otherwise a huge blob of giant underused lots. I am skeptical that Bloomfield's buildings will be preserved either.

Dmajackson

Feb 25, 2021, 5:49 PM

East West Street

https://64.media.tumblr.com/a9ebacb671e920179d32fe92eea63697/fa1bd3cd608c8078-85/s540x810/2722b414ae3be17916cc0355af419b1bfcd5b65e.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

teddifax

Mar 2, 2021, 9:21 PM

atbw

Mar 3, 2021, 2:24 PM

I don't know where to post this, so I'll try here... I came across an article about Casino NS in Halifax, looking into moving from their waterfront location... I was wondering on that site, what is the viewplanes restriction? The article is here... https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5929550?fbclid=IwAR3aUrYZY8sQvKDezriPyFrA589ZfuIx63EjhH876z80sIC_LSVbZTniJ2Q

The closest one is view plane 2 over the Mariott, but looks like nothing on the casino site.

I am curious to see what others think of the casino. I've never personally been interested in going, and I find it to be a pretty dead and quiet area of the waterfront. But I do know some folks who enjoy going and is the main reason they end up downtown.

OldDartmouthMark

Mar 3, 2021, 3:01 PM

The closest one is view plane 2 over the Mariott, but looks like nothing on the casino site.

I am curious to see what others think of the casino. I've never personally been interested in going, and I find it to be a pretty dead and quiet area of the waterfront. But I do know some folks who enjoy going and is the main reason they end up downtown.

Well, I've never been much of a gambler, but I went a few times years ago for kicks, but only played the slots. I found it boring after awhile, giving my money to a machine for little in return. Won a small amount once or twice, but still not very exciting, so the "casino" part of it is of little interest to me. I don't care much for the card games, roulette, etc., either. I will say, though, that it always seemed to be at least moderately busy.

On the other hand, I've attended many concerts there, even though the venue isn't the greatest, but have seen many good bands there. I would consider that aspect a loss, as Halifax seems to be short on good small/mid-sized venues for concerts that are too big for a bar but too small for the Scotiabank Centre, or even the Cohn.

Saul Goode

Mar 3, 2021, 3:56 PM

On the other hand, I've attended many concerts there, even though the venue isn't the greatest, but have seen many good bands there. I would consider that aspect a loss, as Halifax seems to be short on good small/mid-sized venues for concerts that are too big for a bar but too small for the Scotiabank Centre, or even the Cohn.

That pretty much sums up my take as well. I've never spent a nickel gambling there (I'm far from vice-free but gambling just isn't one of them - it has no appeal for me) but have attended numerous concerts and some other social events there, not to mention sharing a few pints in its bars from time to time. I have no particular attachment nor objection to the location, but I think if there continues to be a case to be made for a casino in Halifax (which seems to be in some doubt) then it must be downtown, if not necessarily on its current site. Putting it anywhere else would almost certainly be a death sentence. I made a similar argument here recently about a stadium and I think exactly the same considerations apply to a casino: its best chance for success is to be as close as possible to other attractions and amenities. And at least in the case of a casino, the space and logistical requirements are far less an impediment - there's no good reason a casino can't be located downtown.

I couldn't agree more with OldDartmouthMark that Halifax really needs a decent mid-sized performance venue. I too have seen a lot of good acts at the casino, only to wish they could have been in a more appropriate place.

I would think the current casino site will be among the prime of the prime after the Cogswell Interchange is gone and the local streets realigned. It will be much more connected to and part of the downtown fabric. In its current incarnation it feels quite isolated.

Jonovision

Mar 3, 2021, 8:52 PM

It could be a good spot for a new and larger ferry terminal.

someone123

Mar 3, 2021, 8:57 PM

It could be a good spot for a new and larger ferry terminal.

I'd hate for Cogswell to get delayed by sending things "back to the drawing board" but it could be a win to create a multi-modal waterfront transit terminal that replaces the existing Scotia Square terminal. The plan to add more ferry routes in the future makes this plan more important.

It seems out of the way today but it won't necessarily be when the Cogswell development happens.

(And yet more reason why the height limits around Cogswell are too low. It might be perfectly reasonable to want to build 30-40 storey residential or mixed use towers next to a transit hub.)

Keith P.

Mar 4, 2021, 12:37 PM

The Casino always seemed dull and dreary to me, typical of what happens when govts construct buildings that are used for "retail" sorts of purposes. Plus the location is about as bad as one could find while still technically being downtown, isolated and with zero foot traffic or nearby attractions. Certainly the interior shows none of the supposed glamor that one sees in other casino operations. The upstairs venue is a decent room but is really just a hotel-style ballroom, with the advantage of no hotel rooms above that could be disturbed by loud music.

I read a suggestion that the casino could be relocated to part of the Nova Centre, which is a better location. If there are long-term trends that indicate large conventions are unlikely to ever return, perhaps that might make some sense. Alternatively, if the old WTC main-level space fails in its new use, perhaps that would be a good spot as well.

someone123

Mar 4, 2021, 8:03 PM

2 affordable housing developments to be built on Maitland Street between Portland Pl and Cornwallis in the North End:

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/local/57-affordable-housing-units-to-replace-parking-lot-in-north-end-halifax-559772/

Good Baklava

Mar 4, 2021, 9:49 PM

someone123

Mar 5, 2021, 5:06 AM

Larger rendering:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Evqrfn8WYAUzlcN?format=jpg&name=large
Source (https://twitter.com/AndyFillmoreHFX)

ns_kid

Mar 5, 2021, 7:14 PM

From the [Halifax] Press Block | ? m | 9 fl | Approved forum:

I saw something in today's paper of a design etched into concrete which I thought was amazing. I just don't want another bland, blank wall facing us forever...

The structure teddifax refers to is the new First Baptist Church on Lancaster Drive in Dartmouth. I've watched prefab construction before, but I couldn't believe how fast the concrete panels for this project went up, I believe over just a couple of days. From a bare slab a couple of weeks ago to glass installation today. It's impressive.

The art teddifax mentions is the church's logo and, from architect B.D. Steven's rendering it looks like colour will be added, I presume with tile or some other material.

I drive by there a few times a week, most recently this morning, but I haven't thought to snap a picture. Here's one rendering with a link to another.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51006745451_02da58b3a3_c.jpg

Source: First Baptist Church (https://www.fbcd.ca/our-new-facility/architects-view/)

kph06

Mar 6, 2021, 12:05 AM

Dmajackson

Mar 6, 2021, 3:54 AM

The infamous Atlantic Denture Clinic building on Portland Street, Dartmouth is going to be redeveloped into a 150-unit residential building along with some neighbouring properties. For obvious reasons the developer is planning to demolish the building immediately.

I really hope the $1.5 million goes to the victims family or a memorial in their honour.

CTV News Clip (https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=2154074) (normally I post the title for news articles but I strongly disagree with using his name ever).

Dmajackson

Mar 6, 2021, 4:31 AM

Looking at the planning applications site had a couple interesting finds.

The Design Review Committee (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/boards-committees-commissions/210310dac912.pdf) posted upcoming cases in their agenda, a couple might be new developments, such as 5651 Ogilvie Street.

The other interesting one was Case 23401 (https://www.halifax.ca/business/planning-development/applications/case-23401-249-251-257-windmill-road-dartmouth) a 12 story project by Olympus Property Management Limited, submitted by Stephen Adams Consulting Services Inc.

I've posted in 247 Pleasant's thread. 5651 Ogilvie Street is Ogilvie Tower so it's likely an addition though given the age of the building a full redevelopment is possible. Case 23401 is a project that has been approved since my early days on this forum (~10 years) so I'll be surprised if it ever gets built. That said Olympus' current project is South Park Lofts and after a major "delay" that one is finally wrapping up work so maybe this one has always been planned to be next.

The four projects in my neighbourhood will be exciting to see. Cogswell & Gottingen (aka 5512 Cogswell or The Butler Building) was just demolished and given the speed of new buildings rising in the area I hope this highly visible lot isn't vacant for long. Robie & Willow and Robie & May are both replacing older housing stock and are on a section of road Halifax is planning to widen soon. 5512 Bilby is in the middle of an area undergoing drastic changes right now. Bilby has 3 active construction sites, 2 recently completed, and 1 approved condo site.

OldDartmouthMark

Mar 6, 2021, 2:21 PM

Dmajackson

Mar 8, 2021, 1:53 AM

someone123

Mar 8, 2021, 5:51 PM

Thanks for the updates. I notice some wires dangling out of the wall near the top of the building. Maybe some lighting will be added?

I'm not a big fan of the colour scheme but this project has some nice texture and detailing. The main floor looks like real brick and the metalwork on the left side is a nice touch. I think small gestures like that are what the city, really most cities, need more of, to add variety and interest for pedestrians.

I wonder if anybody will bring back some of the neon on Gottingen. These days a similar effect can be accomplished with LED fixtures.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/53343e34e4b0681b8cd342bb/1396136290982-JFLQO58KYX9HDQSRPYGA/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kLFZgTP9Hg2t-EvhvIJZ-osUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYxCRW4BPu10St3TBAUQYVKcSstzOhGrB_S70bkTyudf0EDmv2mvAFWP4ykwKIPL_ylccxS3g_AaguzjH0gFvfs8/image-asset.png?format=2500w
https://www.glubeslofts.com/history

mleblanc

Mar 8, 2021, 7:21 PM

2165 Gottingen Street

https://64.media.tumblr.com/0b524925c1bb601c8ace382f8adbda37/4ad24cb90eb98ddb-c0/s1280x1920/29aaec3290be09133b4ae361c5fbcaad69db8e24.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

This one turned out pretty poorly in my opinion. It fits in with the area well and the massing is fine, but those materials just look so cheap.

worldlyhaligonian

Mar 8, 2021, 7:38 PM

This one turned out pretty poorly in my opinion. It fits in with the area well and the massing is fine, but those materials just look so cheap.

It looks like its from a different era up top / side and not in a good way.

Remarkable that people get away with this, but a decent tower design will get shot down immediately.

someone123

Mar 8, 2021, 9:18 PM

This one turned out pretty poorly in my opinion. It fits in with the area well and the massing is fine, but those materials just look so cheap.

In particular the metal cladding often doesn't end up looking very good. And metal cladding seems to be proliferating around the city lately, along with porcelain or ceramic tile as an exterior cladding material.

mleblanc

Mar 8, 2021, 9:30 PM

In particular the metal cladding often doesn't end up looking very good. And metal cladding seems to be proliferating around the city lately, along with porcelain or ceramic tile as an exterior cladding material.

The more I look it at, the more I dislike. Even if they chose a different colour scheme it would look marginally better.

Drybrain

Mar 8, 2021, 10:11 PM

someone123

Mar 8, 2021, 10:45 PM

I think I have to differ. The colour scheme is a little...avocado. And I'm over the metal cladding too. But I actually think this works. A little eccentric, perfect scale, good street presence with the brick. It could be better, but it could be much, much worse, too.

The Gottingen rebirth is pretty special as far as North American infill goes. This was a severely decayed area that has maintained an old street network and fine-grained land ownership patterns. There are not a lot of places with this mix of heritage and eclectic smaller scale modern buildings. There is not a lot of Gottingen-era urban fabric in all of North America. St. George's would be the oldest building in almost every other Canadian city, and it's a landmark, not a pioneer log cabin.

I think the North End as a whole is going to be a marquee sort of neighbourhood in the next 5-10 years that will become nationally well-known or even beyond as a cool place for urban enthusiasts to visit or live in. The Plateau is probably an example of where the North End is headed, although the North End seems to have more new construction and holes in the historic fabric.

People might be surprised at how popular Halifax ends up being when it's filled in and cleaned up a little more, and grows a bit more.

Good Baklava

Mar 9, 2021, 4:29 AM

IanWatson

Mar 9, 2021, 11:34 AM

The other interesting one was Case 23401 (https://www.halifax.ca/business/planning-development/applications/case-23401-249-251-257-windmill-road-dartmouth) a 12 story project by Olympus Property Management Limited, submitted by Stephen Adams Consulting Services Inc.

Interesting. I can only assume that it’s former Councillor Steve Adams?

atbw

Mar 9, 2021, 1:12 PM

Definitely aimed at those who eat avocado toast, but despite the design screaming broke millennial lofts I do think it’s an improvement. I think the lack of uniformity in design on Gottingen is what makes the street attractive in the first place.

I think it’s pretty average on the whole and has a decent scale and good street presence. Not every building has to stand out or be a landmark, and as you said, Gottingen’s strength is the fine-grained streetscape of small lots and varied buildings.

OldDartmouthMark

Mar 9, 2021, 3:14 PM

Interesting. I can only assume that it’s former Councillor Steve Adams?

I would have to say yes.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Steve-Adams-258474084264598/about/?ref=page_internal

MORE INFO

Additional Information
Retired Member of HRM Council
categories
Consulting Agency

OldDartmouthMark

Mar 9, 2021, 3:22 PM

This one turned out pretty poorly in my opinion. It fits in with the area well and the massing is fine, but those materials just look so cheap.

I have to disagree on the basis that it looks a little funky, which seems to blend in well with its surroundings, and the direction that this section of Gottingen is moving towards. Kinda eclectic, in a good sort of way...

The colour palette isn't my favourite, but it sure is a nice change from those cold grey/black themed buildings that are popping up like spring dandelions these days. Nice to see something on a warm palette for a change.

Dmajackson

Mar 14, 2021, 5:49 PM

Dmajackson

Mar 15, 2021, 12:29 AM

I guess we don't have a thread for 34Eleven (https://www.34eleven.ca/) (3411 Joseph Howe Drive)? The construction is now above grade.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/7a1cbf_ff91850052524b4abad752182065dc4d~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1259,h_571,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/7a1cbf_ff91850052524b4abad752182065dc4d~mv2.webp
See link above

Jonovision

Mar 15, 2021, 8:29 PM

My question is always will that be real brick or a precast brick panel? It is looking better in that rendering than I was expecting. But those balconies look tiny. Barely enough room for a chair.

someone123

Mar 15, 2021, 8:39 PM

But those balconies look tiny. Barely enough room for a chair.

I wonder why so many residential buildings have such tiny balconies. They seem like they'd be a relatively affordable way to make buildings much more appealing. I'd guess (though I don't really know) that adding an extra square foot of balcony is relatively cheap compared to a square foot of indoor living space.

Jonovision

Mar 16, 2021, 7:28 PM

I wonder why so many residential buildings have such tiny balconies. They seem like they'd be a relatively affordable way to make buildings much more appealing. I'd guess (though I don't really know) that adding an extra square foot of balcony is relatively cheap compared to a square foot of indoor living space.

I remember reading an article a while back that looked at this as a somewhat Canadian phenomenon. Where so many multi unit buildings have balconies, no matter how tall the building is and no matter how big the balcony is. It was saying it is not very common in a lot of other countries and made the argument that it is part of the Canadian psych. Where in we all feel like we need that connection to nature. And that having a balcony vs not having one, even if it is not used, somehow provides that connection.

IanWatson

Mar 17, 2021, 1:18 PM

Northend Guy

Mar 17, 2021, 8:21 PM

I suspect energy code is the main reason for small balconies. When balconies are just an extension of the poured slab they're basically a giant radiator fin to the outside. So energy code has put limits on how big they can be without a thermal break. There are products that add a thermal break, but they're more expensive and complicated.

Developers still add them even if they have to be small because, as Jono says, there's a psychological demand for them; people want them even if they never use them. Also, with more and more buildings using mini-split heat pumps for the AC and/or heat the balcony is a convenient place to hide the outside unit.

This. And if I understand the energy code correctly, you can basically trade off for different 'energy wasters' up to certain maximum. For example, if you keep the balconies smaller, then you can add more glass and vice versa. There are other trade offs too (R-value, efficient equipment, etc.) You can use different combinations of envelope/equipment items to accomplish what you want while staying within the boundaries set out in the energy code.

That said, in practice, this is a bit of a black art depending on factors outside of what can be anticipated by modelling software (ie. quality of installation and materials enforcement.)

someone123

Mar 17, 2021, 8:32 PM

So energy code has put limits on how big they can be without a thermal break.

So we give people in apartments less outdoor space and they yearn to move into an energy efficient bungalow instead! Another interesting angle is how much this unheated outdoor space reduces the need for heated indoor space.

A lot of apartments are not concrete construction. I'd guess most in metro Halifax but I am not sure. Do you know the dollar cost of installing thermal breaks for the concrete buildings?

someone123

Mar 18, 2021, 12:39 AM

There is a run-down here of an assortment of projects in the city: https://www.saltwire.com/news/canada/a-guide-to-the-major-developments-that-will-transform-halifax-regional-municipality-564178/

None of them are new to the forum but there are some details about each. I thought Bloomfield was interesting and I am curious to see how the Rapid Housing Initiative projects turn out.

IanWatson

Mar 18, 2021, 12:01 PM

A lot of apartments are not concrete construction. I'd guess most in metro Halifax but I am not sure. Do you know the dollar cost of installing thermal breaks for the concrete buildings?

With non-concrete construction it's probably relatively easy to do large balconies because you're either attaching them to the exterior, or they're an extension of the wooden floor joists, which are much easier to insulate than concrete extensions.

For concrete construction there are products like this: https://www.schoeck.com/en-us/balcony-products. They're basically a block of foam with rebar through them. I don't think the products themselves are particularly expensive, but the cost comes in the install. With traditional concrete balconies you just do it all in one big pour along with the floor. With this you have to do a lot more preparation and detailing.

Jonovision

Mar 19, 2021, 7:48 PM

For concrete construction there are products like this: https://www.schoeck.com/en-us/balcony-products. They're basically a block of foam with rebar through them. I don't think the products themselves are particularly expensive, but the cost comes in the install. With traditional concrete balconies you just do it all in one big pour along with the floor. With this you have to do a lot more preparation and detailing.

The only building that I am aware of that has done this is The Maple. It was quoted as a sustainability feature when it was getting approval through the DRC.