General Updates and News

[eastcoastal]

This building was built as apartments, and just 3 months ago the developer changed course to condos instead. Likely a product of interest rates.

Yes - I saw the mention of switch from Apartments to Condos in the AllNovaScotia article today.

[Keith P.]

These are condos... so, given the scenario you describe, I guess the market is for people who are buying these only as income property (and may rent out the "living space" as a fourth bedroom!).

Yes, it seems to be a growing trend to buy a single-family home or multi-bedroom condo, live there either as a single or a couple w/o kids, and rent out the remaining bedrooms to help make the mortgage payments. I cannot imagine that being very much fun, and it is probably technically illegal, but it is happening all over town. A throwback to the days where a family with extra space would take in "roomers" to help pay the rent/mortgage.

[someone123]

Yes, it seems to be a growing trend to buy a single-family home or multi-bedroom condo, live there either as a single or a couple w/o kids, and rent out the remaining bedrooms to help make the mortgage payments. I cannot imagine that being very much fun, and it is probably technically illegal, but it is happening all over town. A throwback to the days where a family with extra space would take in "roomers" to help pay the rent/mortgage.

It's what you have to do when you're in a country like Canada that has a severe land and lumber shortage.

[Saul Goode]

This building was built as apartments, and just 3 months ago the developer changed course to condos instead. Likely a product of interest rates.

Rising interest rates make it more likely that folks will buy condos? I don't follow.

[Wannabe Economist]

Rising interest rates make it more likely that folks will buy condos? I don't follow.

Rising interest rates make it less attractive to own apartment buildings as an investment. I believe the plan was always to sell this building. Instead of selling it whole they now feel the only way to get their price is to sell as condos.

[Saul Goode]

Rising interest rates make it less attractive to own apartment buildings as an investment.

Well, not necessarily. As owner, you do have the ability to set (and raise) rents, and the rental market in HRM is extremely hot right now - and for the foreseeable future, given the supply and demand problem. And most of the existing apartment supply here was built in times of far higher interest rates than now.

Increasing interest rates also make purchasing condos more expensive.

[Wannabe Economist]

Well, not necessarily. As owner, you do have the ability to set (and raise) rents, and the rental market in HRM is extremely hot right now - and for the foreseeable future, given the supply and demand problem. And most of the existing apartment supply here was built in times of far higher interest rates than now.

Increasing interest rates also make purchasing condos more expensive.

The ability to set and raise rents exists independently of interest rates. Sure, if you assume you can rent your 1BR units for $3000/mo+ then interest rates don't matter. The reality is the market can only bare rents to a certain point, and the projections used when marketing this project were certainly done using Q3 2022 rents.

The truth is it used to be possible to get a standard CMHC mortgage at a full 85% LTV with a 2% interest rate, so it would make sense to buy an apartment building at a 4% capitalization rate (standard for DT HFX) because your ROE will be >15%. These days sellers are still looking for those low cap rates (high values) meanwhile the interest rate is closer to 4.5%, meaning your mortgage can only be around 65-70% LTV. This leads to an ROE of ~3.8%, which is especially bad considering many bonds are now yielding more than that.

The market has pulled back big time on new apartment buildings. This is not just my opinion, it is well known fact across the industry. Look at Crombie postponing Westhill and John Ghosn postponing Bluenose, both were quoted as saying it is a product of rising interest rates and inflation. Many buildings that exist today around Halifax were indeed built at times of higher interest rates than today, however, they were also built at far lower land values and far lower construction costs. The boom we are in the midst of today with 36 cranes in the air is a result of the <2% mortgage rates we had up until March.

Real estate investments and interest rates are very highly correlated. When you're using a loan to pay for 85-95% of the cost of your investment it makes sense that as borrowing costs are increasing the investment becomes less desirable. Of course the same is true for condos, however, condos and SFHs are not priced the same way as CRE, rather, it often include many qualitative factors in its pricing while CRE is largely quantitative. As such, the market for condos hasn't fallen as much as it has for apartment buildings.

[someone123]

The boom we are in the midst of today with 36 cranes in the air is a result of the <2% mortgage rates we had up until March.

I think this is all true but also eventually there will be a new equilibrium of the different factors (rents, land prices, interest rates, etc.) that does allow for financing and construction in some form. And if people are moving in and are productive or wealthy enough then on some level the construction will be funded. If high interest rates continue they will bring down land prices for example. It's out of whack right now because so much changed so quickly and we still have supply chain issues.

But in a housing crunch if you're one of the people struggling it matters if this is sorted out in 6 months or 3 years and if the equilibrium is 6k new housing units a year or 10k. I hope NS does not end up like BC but I think that's the most likely outcome. Then again, the interest rate hikes so far have been more aggressive than I thought they'd be, and NS got involved in speeding up approvals faster than I thought it would (jury's still out on what difference that makes).

[Wannabe Economist]

I think this is all true but also eventually there will be a new equilibrium of the different factors (rents, land prices, interest rates, etc.) that does allow for financing and construction in some form. And if people are moving in and are productive or wealthy enough then on some level the construction will be funded. If high interest rates continue they will bring down land prices for example. It's out of whack right now because so much changed so quickly and we still have supply chain issues.

I agree completely. It's worth noting that for the project we are talking about, Agricola West, it is still a profitable project at today's apartment building prices but the developer wants yesterdays prices. He developed the building to sell and make a profit and the move to condos is just his way of maximizing that profit given today's economic environment. Construction of new apartment buildings can still make sense, it's just not as profitable as it used to be because the buyer pool and demand for these buildings has shrunken.

[Saul Goode]

The ability to set and raise rents exists independently of interest rates. Sure, if you assume you can rent your 1BR units for $3000/mo+ then interest rates don't matter. The reality is the market can only bare rents to a certain point, and the projections used when marketing this project were certainly done using Q3 2022 rents.

The truth is it used to be possible to get a standard CMHC mortgage at a full 85% LTV with a 2% interest rate, so it would make sense to buy an apartment building at a 4% capitalization rate (standard for DT HFX) because your ROE will be >15%. These days sellers are still looking for those low cap rates (high values) meanwhile the interest rate is closer to 4.5%, meaning your mortgage can only be around 65-70% LTV. This leads to an ROE of ~3.8%, which is especially bad considering many bonds are now yielding more than that.

The market has pulled back big time on new apartment buildings. This is not just my opinion, it is well known fact across the industry. Look at Crombie postponing Westhill and John Ghosn postponing Bluenose, both were quoted as saying it is a product of rising interest rates and inflation. Many buildings that exist today around Halifax were indeed built at times of higher interest rates than today, however, they were also built at far lower land values and far lower construction costs. The boom we are in the midst of today with 36 cranes in the air is a result of the <2% mortgage rates we had up until March.

Real estate investments and interest rates are very highly correlated. When you're using a loan to pay for 85-95% of the cost of your investment it makes sense that as borrowing costs are increasing the investment becomes less desirable. Of course the same is true for condos, however, condos and SFHs are not priced the same way as CRE, rather, it often include many qualitative factors in its pricing while CRE is largely quantitative. As such, the market for condos hasn't fallen as much as it has for apartment buildings.

Straightforward analysis, nicely stated. I totally get developers wanting to "tap the brakes" right now; everything's very unstable. But I'm not so sure that switching to condos will fix this developer's problem if the impetus is to flip the property quickly by any means possible. It could take a while to unload those condo units - not convinced of the robustness of that market - and in the meantime the attractiveness of the rental market could (and I suspect will) rebound in the not-terribly-long term.

It's all fun to watch, anyway.

[Colin May]

My better half looking at new windows and was told a deposit of 25-50% may be required for delivery in 8 months. I am quite sure that developers are not being offered such terms.
Earlier this year the quote was 25% down and 4 months. This is not sustainable.

[ScottCarrots]

My better half looking at new windows and was told a deposit of 25-50% may be required for delivery in 8 months. I am quite sure that developers are not being offered such terms.
Earlier this year the quote was 25% down and 4 months. This is not sustainable.

In commercial construction, the 25-50% deposit is pretty standard unless a company has a long established credit with a supplier. For the lead times - standard materials that used to take 3-4 weeks to get are currently at 10-12 weeks. And a lot of it shows up 3-4 weeks late. For custom built stuff, 6 months lead time is almost normal now. So 8 months is long, but not unheard of.

[Colin May]

In commercial construction, the 25-50% deposit is pretty standard unless a company has a long established credit with a supplier. For the lead times - standard materials that used to take 3-4 weeks to get are currently at 10-12 weeks. And a lot of it shows up 3-4 weeks late. For custom built stuff, 6 months lead time is almost normal now. So 8 months is long, but not unheard of.
Thank you. What a nightmare.

[kzt79]

The ability to set and raise rents exists independently of interest rates. Sure, if you assume you can rent your 1BR units for $3000/mo+ then interest rates don't matter. The reality is the market can only bare rents to a certain point, and the projections used when marketing this project were certainly done using Q3 2022 rents.

The truth is it used to be possible to get a standard CMHC mortgage at a full 85% LTV with a 2% interest rate, so it would make sense to buy an apartment building at a 4% capitalization rate (standard for DT HFX) because your ROE will be >15%. These days sellers are still looking for those low cap rates (high values) meanwhile the interest rate is closer to 4.5%, meaning your mortgage can only be around 65-70% LTV. This leads to an ROE of ~3.8%, which is especially bad considering many bonds are now yielding more than that.

The market has pulled back big time on new apartment buildings. This is not just my opinion, it is well known fact across the industry. Look at Crombie postponing Westhill and John Ghosn postponing Bluenose, both were quoted as saying it is a product of rising interest rates and inflation. Many buildings that exist today around Halifax were indeed built at times of higher interest rates than today, however, they were also built at far lower land values and far lower construction costs. The boom we are in the midst of today with 36 cranes in the air is a result of the <2% mortgage rates we had up until March.

Real estate investments and interest rates are very highly correlated. When you're using a loan to pay for 85-95% of the cost of your investment it makes sense that as borrowing costs are increasing the investment becomes less desirable. Of course the same is true for condos, however, condos and SFHs are not priced the same way as CRE, rather, it often include many qualitative factors in its pricing while CRE is largely quantitative. As such, the market for condos hasn't fallen as much as it has for apartment buildings.

Good analysis. Stripped down to the absolute basics, financially speaking an apartment building can almost be thought of as a bond-like product (with appropriate adjustments for relative risk etc.)

[Saul Goode]

Good analysis. Stripped down to the absolute basics, financially speaking an apartment building can almost be thought of as a bond-like product (with appropriate adjustments for relative risk etc.)

You can think of most any income-producing property that way, really.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Posting a pic I took last week. I hadn't previously noticed the set back upper floor on the ZION on Gottingen.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52331311217_db3820c4c9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nJkDCv)20220825_102515 (https://flic.kr/p/2nJkDCv) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

[Colin May]

Prime rate must be causing concern to developers. Along with inflation the financial pressure is significant and another increase in prime rate is imminent. perhaps a reporter at allnovascotia.com will explore the issue...I would do it myself but COVID has kept me in bed and homebound for several days.
September 7, 2022 5.45% 0.75%
July 14, 2022 4.70% 1.00%
June 2, 2022 3.70% 0.50%
April 14, 2022 3.20% 0.50%
March 3, 2022 2.70% 0.25%
March 30, 2020 2.45% -0.50%

[Dmajackson]

All photos are mine. See my signature for link to my blog.

COMPASS COOPERATIVE HOUSING (2095 Maitland)

https://64.media.tumblr.com/c2fcd5c9e721e1d5979d335fe4037368/2f9a5bd7d80573dc-62/s540x810/5438c811e0693fb5273e3acce596e4f32d483fdc.jpg

34 ELEVEN (3411 Joseph Howe)

https://64.media.tumblr.com/0c0a3e16c902ffa3aa39fabe921bf0c4/41fb45bed6224eb0-6e/s540x810/76cb5f0d3cbbeec54e6d6a3f6df468565d35fb5a.jpg

AGRICOLA WEST (5684 West)

https://64.media.tumblr.com/3dd024854d2d522f11b52232fcd3ab3a/7763eeb35dbd6e58-b6/s540x810/069c1f8750f77083bf108ba8e4684931348f0899.jpg

[RoshanMcG]

I can't find the specifics either but it is part of the Wedgewood Court community and will be 62 Armstrong Court. I drove up the cul-de-sac yesterday but I couldn't get a good look at the site but the hole does appear to have a small footprint (for a suburban apartment building).

Looks like it may be this:

https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/community-councils/200121hwcc1312.pdf

7 story addition to one of the buildings?

https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/community-councils/200218hwcc1012staffpres.pdf

http://i.imgur.com/ON1oTS4h.jpg (https://imgur.com/ON1oTS4)

http://i.imgur.com/EQZAX9jh.jpg (https://imgur.com/EQZAX9j)

http://i.imgur.com/QuPXTQAh.jpg (https://imgur.com/QuPXTQA)

[Hali87]

Not sure if there's a thread for this one. This is at the corner of Joseph Howe and Bayers Rd:

https://i.imgur.com/nbPTHMe.png

https://i.imgur.com/BBhg1nK.png

https://i.imgur.com/ALlAfiS.png

https://i.imgur.com/5FPUUod.png

[Hali87]

A couple smaller projects along Dutch Village (a couple blocks away from the previous):

https://i.imgur.com/7HDP6qo.png

https://i.imgur.com/4ad3ayH.png

https://i.imgur.com/PsVpprt.png

https://i.imgur.com/lH4B2zN.png

[Keith P.]

Despite those new projects, Dutch Village remains a disaster. Not even any curb or sidewalk on a lot of it. Not sure how that happens.

[Hali87]

Despite those new projects, Durch Village remains a disaster. Not even any curb or sidewalk on a lot of it. Not sure how that happens.

It's a bit of an anomaly in that the lower parts of Fairview began as a quasi-independent suburb but without the master-planned approach that tends to define the rest of the North Mainland. This is part of the reason why redevelopment is more common here than in Clayton Park for example, but also the reason why it feels a bit incoherent ("eclectic"?) and incomplete/under-engineered in comparison. Spryfield, Armdale, and Rockingham also share these features to some extent, although they each tend to include more master-planned development than Fairview does.

I'll point out that one side of the street (the side I was on when I took the photos) does have a sidewalk, but yeah I always found it odd that the other side doesn't - there's easily space for it, it's just that no one ever bothered installing one.

[fatscat]

Yeah, it looks really bad right now. They are redeveloping and the plan looks sound. I like how they will be tackling the Bayers/Joe Howe intersection at the same time too.

https://www.shapeyourcityhalifax.ca/dutch-village-road

Was pushed back to 2023 but they were out this summer doing planning with their fancy little telescopes. Hopefully shovels begin soon after the deep winter.

[LikeCranes]

....with their fancy little telescopes....

Those are levels, I believe.

[bluenoser]

Seems like the Mi'kmaw Native Friendship Centre project is moving ahead now (with an updated design?), due to additional funding:

---

Halifax Mi'kmaw Native Friendship Centre gets $28.8 million from Ottawa for new build
https://halifax.citynews.ca/local-news/halifax-mikmaw-native-friendship-centre-gets-288-million-from-ottawa-for-new-build-6016744

https://www.vmcdn.ca/f/files/halifaxtoday/images/announcements/mikmaw-native-friendship-centre.jpg;w=960

[mleblanc]

Definitely prefer this design over the last. Looks great, would love to see more interesting 'natural' architecture around the city - wood, trees, etc.

[fatscat]

Where is this supposed to eventually be situated? I can't tell from the photos where this might be downtown, and I don't see any hints in the press release.

[mleblanc]

Where is this supposed to eventually be situated? I can't tell from the photos where this might be downtown, and I don't see any hints in the press release.

Where the old Red Cross building is on Rainie/Gottingen, next to Centennial Pool

[fatscat]

Where the old Red Cross building is on Rainie/Gottingen, next to Centennial Pool

Thank you!

[Keith P.]

L'absurdité. More tax dollars up in smoke.

[HfxGuy]

L'absurdité. More tax dollars up in smoke.

Its the least that can be done. And this is a very active and valuable community site. I for one, welcome the use of tax money. Plus the building concepts look incredible.

[someone123]

Fathom has more renderings up on their website: https://www.instagram.com/p/CkOvCLyPGGM

There aren't a lot of details about the building but I like how it adds some outdoor public space and some interest around the fringes of the Citadel (without a roadway cutting this development off from the hill itself). I think the space around the Citadel is underused and the quality of the roads and barriers around it is kind of low. It reminds me of generic park infrastructure in a rural area, but it is in the middle of a city. It is not terrible but it could be better.

If there were some kind of glassy modernist museum on the Garrison Grounds, built into the hill, as an example, I think that would be a big upgrade, but I wonder if such a project would be allowed. Bell Rd could also be realigned to make the land around there more useful (it seems Ahern is a kind of alleyway or parking area). Citadel High seems like poor land use and neither old high school has been redeveloped yet...

[Jreeb]

Definitely prefer this design over the last. Looks great, would love to see more interesting 'natural' architecture around the city - wood, trees, etc.

Reminds me of a beehive! Looks neat and I definitely agree it would be nice to see some more 'natural' designs

[IanWatson]

Fathom has more renderings up on their website: https://www.instagram.com/p/CkOvCLyPGGM

There aren't a lot of details about the building but I like how it adds some outdoor public space and some interest around the fringes of the Citadel (without a roadway cutting this development off from the hill itself).

Is the plan to close Rainnie?? The renderings sure seems to suggest it but I haven't seen anything to that effect yet.

[kzt79]

The Agricola West website shows a 3 bedroom unit (the Fort) in 1050sq ft that amazingly has 3 very good bedrooms! The design shrinks the living, kitchen, eating area as an interesting compromise.

This building also offers a 367 sq foot studio, "the roost." I'm sure it would be fine for a few chickens, but how can even one person live there comfortably? I feel like this is around the size of an average hotel room. I suppose there might be something to be said for forced minimalism!

[Dmajackson]

Looks like excavation work has started on Lancaster Drive apartments next to the First Baptist Church. They will be accessed from the church's driveway and at the time of rezoning they were planned to be two buildings of six floors.

Case 21552 Rezoning (https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/community-councils/190502hemdcc1012.PDF) (Approved in 2019).

Crane base has been installed for Lancaster Drive Apartments. It's grey with no sign of branding. Still no information or renderings for this project.

[Dmajackson]

LANCASTER RIDGE - There is a rendering on site. I'll get a photo of it when I can access the church parking lot.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/f1bcc988a3dca54a6ace1c302bf5b29f/bda057bc6e54b13e-4f/s540x810/bcd5f5a3d421e1f2a8770a9342611a4845a04a60.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

[kph06]

Arnoldin has a crane of that model idle, I suspect it will be theirs.

[fatscat]

Observation: It feels like many infrastructure projects, at least on the peninsula, are at a standstill. Observing their state, I feel like they all seem to be stuck waiting for concrete?

Examples: Joe Howe, the MUP extension at Bayers/Bridge, Liverpool street. Been in half-finished states for weeks. Joe Howe is still getting plenty of work but the pedestrian refuge seems to have been done for awhile without any pouring happening.

I know nothing of the process but that's my uneducated view

[Haliguy]

Observation: It feels like many infrastructure projects, at least on the peninsula, are at a standstill. Observing their state, I feel like they all seem to be stuck waiting for concrete?

Examples: Joe Howe, the MUP extension at Bayers/Bridge, Liverpool street. Been in half-finished states for weeks. Joe Howe is still getting plenty of work but the pedestrian refuse seems to have been done for awhile without any pouring happening.

I know nothing of the process but that's my uneducated view

Same with Massachusetts Ave and Lady Hammond Rd. They're finally paving Massachusetts Ave, but they were supposed to replace the curbing and the concrete median and there not now.

[Hali87]

Various U/C and recent projects in the Almon St area:

https://i.imgur.com/rtE1rDA.png

https://i.imgur.com/J0ip7ip.png

https://i.imgur.com/LjEiJ6q.png

https://i.imgur.com/9sigdiz.png

https://i.imgur.com/mxX33rP.png

https://i.imgur.com/AwhIniK.png

https://i.imgur.com/dMmp5Ku.png

https://i.imgur.com/r87DXJ0.png

https://i.imgur.com/HSDbsW4.png

https://i.imgur.com/8iz3JJK.png

https://i.imgur.com/1dBXplr.png

https://i.imgur.com/guafR85.png

https://i.imgur.com/kC9vzVe.png

https://i.imgur.com/JbmG5Cb.png

[Keith P.]

Not really a surprise given how poorly the Province does PM on its buildings, but the Law Courts parking garage that serves as the base for the court building itself has been closed to the public due to structural decay:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-law-courts-parkade-justice-department-public-works-parking-1.6640458

Probably the best thing that could happen would be for the building to start falling into the garage. It really is a poor location for that use.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Not really a surprise given how poorly the Province does PM on its buildings, but the Law Courts parking garage that serves as the base for the court building itself has been closed to the public due to structural decay:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-law-courts-parkade-justice-department-public-works-parking-1.6640458

Probably the best thing that could happen would be for the building to start falling into the garage. It really is a poor location for that use.

I'm sure it seemed like a good idea in the early 1970s, but, yeah, this is one of the properties where demolition would yield the largest improvement to the waterfront, IMHO.

I recall the lot at the corner of Sackville and Lower Water was being discussed as a replacement for the law courts, but presumably that fell through the cracks?

It will be interesting to see what happens here, but I suspect they will have no choice but to spend big money on repairs, without an exit plan in place.

[Northend Guy]

I recall the lot at the corner of Sackville and Lower Water was being discussed as a replacement for the law courts, but presumably that fell through the cracks?


I see what you did there...:haha:

[Dmajackson]

LANCASTER RIDGE - There is a rendering on site. I'll get a photo of it when I can access the church parking lot.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/f1bcc988a3dca54a6ace1c302bf5b29f/bda057bc6e54b13e-4f/s540x810/bcd5f5a3d421e1f2a8770a9342611a4845a04a60.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

LANCASTER VILLAS - LANCASTER DRIVE, DARTMOUTH

https://64.media.tumblr.com/cea4b517278d20545543925312e90d4e/4c8ada72ce98f916-62/s540x810/cd9925f572c5e18830b3c35266a1e009fc00e404.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

[Empire]

Shannon Park would be an ideal location.

North American Innovation Hub:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/halifax-proposed-as-new-home-for-nato-s-north-american-innovation-hub-minister/ar-AA14gWa4?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=5ac4ff6376234d2390ddfeeaca3f0b23

[Summerville]

Shannon Park would be an ideal location.

North American Innovation Hub:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/halifax-proposed-as-new-home-for-nato-s-north-american-innovation-hub-minister/ar-AA14gWa4?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=5ac4ff6376234d2390ddfeeaca3f0b23


DND has an un-used property and wharf next to the MacDonald Bridge, that is down the road from DREA, and across the narrows from the shipyard and HMC dockyard

And there’s Shearwater

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

I was walking by so.... a nice addition to the neighbourhood.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52510689894_d7d760569e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o1c1Ej)20221119_150442 (https://flic.kr/p/2o1c1Ej) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

This reno/addition is on Russel St. behind Point North. It looks nice but I'm not sure what is the purpose of the addition. The lack of windows and the height of it suggest that it's not residential.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52510961998_c49ff51ee1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o1dpxL)20221119_150843_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o1dpxL) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52509941992_fc9d273ebf_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o18bks)20221119_150922_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o18bks) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

i think this is a completly new structure rather than a reno on Acadia St. just off of Vestry St. in the north end. It's quite a departure from the typical street venacular and is perhaps a sign of things to come? The fifth story is a small structure that opens to a large rooftop patio. It will have a nice harbour/basin/narrows view.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52509943077_7f7a8ec334_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o18bEa)20221119_144831_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o18bEa) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52510689504_178d11005f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o1c1xA)20221119_144925_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o1c1xA) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52510689614_362862caa2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o1c1zu)20221119_144941_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o1c1zu) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

This law office project in the Hydrostone area is nearing exterior cladding completon. It's certainly nothing special to look at though better looking than it once was. The entrance seems somehow lacking in that it's not (yet) terribly obvious. I'm hoping that they can fit a tree or two in their parking lot.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52510416001_ebc5c369f0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o1aBf2)20221119_145915_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o1aBf2) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52509941632_016c8c118c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o18bef)20221119_145941_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o18bef) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52510416051_974952cc65_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o1aBfT)20221119_145954_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o1aBfT) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

[Summerville]

This reno/addition is on Russel St. behind Point North. It looks nice but I'm not sure what is the purpose of the addition. The lack of windows and the height of it suggest that it's not residential.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52510961998_c49ff51ee1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o1dpxL)20221119_150843_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o1dpxL) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52509941992_fc9d273ebf_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o18bks)20221119_150922_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2o18bks) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr


It’s a sound studio

[Hali87]

Tramway building renos:

https://i.imgur.com/JwsbYEv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/58m27bN.jpg

Source (https://www.facebook.com/halifaxnoise/photos/pcb.1862873527389027/1862873360722377)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Great shots. It's cool to see the street level concrete detail, that was hidden under the brickwork, seeing the light of day again.

On another note, I'm sure they know what they're doing, but their method of leveling up the crane makes me cringe a little... :)

I was wondering if Obladee was still open, but I see by their facebook page that they are still actively posting. I assume at some point they will have to move, as I think (IIRC) the plan is to gut the building and add floors to the top?

[Summerville]

I guess that there is actually a war on cars. New article from CBC mentions Halifax.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/evs-cities-climate-column-don-pittis-1.6654675

[Keith P.]

I guess that there is actually a war on cars. New article from CBC mentions Halifax.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/evs-cities-climate-column-don-pittis-1.6654675

Told you so.

I have never seen a Pittis article that I have agreed with and this is no exception.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Told you so.

I have never seen a Pittis article that I have agreed with and this is no exception.

Sounds like the interviewee found his niche in life:
"I fundamentally do not believe that Canadian cities will materially change within my lifetime, which is exactly why we gave up on Canada," said Slaughter in our exchange last week. "That's literally why our family left Canada to live in the Netherlands, permanently."

The author talks about the move like it's some kind of tragic failure on Canada's part, but in reality many people move away from Canada to other countries that are a better fit for their lifestyle choices/preferences. Likewise, many more people move to Canada from other countries because it's a great place to live.

A win-win as i see it.

[GTG_78]

I guess that there is actually a war on cars. New article from CBC mentions Halifax.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/evs-cities-climate-column-don-pittis-1.6654675

"And in Halifax, turning itself into a relatively compact, walkable, climate-friendly city and shunning sprawl has become embedded in all planning decisions right up to the mayor's office.

"Our city is committed to economically and environmentally sustainable growth," said Halifax Mayor Mike Savage last week in an email. And it's not just hot air, outside experts like Gordon say Savage has been making it happen."

There is simply no way to reconcile this quote with the City's planning decisions over the past 20 years. Instead of development, HRM prioritized height limits, view planes, a Byzantine development approval process, and obstructionism in the guise of community councils and special interest groups. Most of those obstacles remain in place. Some of them have been enshrined into the planning process.

Similarly, the lack of progress in modernizing transit and Halifax Transit's inability to ensure consistent service has cast a pall over transit as an alternative. Simple example: what incentive is there for a family of four with a dog to surrender their climate-controlled vehicle for a bus? What is HRM offering that is better? There are *hundreds* of anecdotal stories online about people taking *hours* to get to locations by bus that would take minutes for cars.

If the objective was to reduce or remove cars from the urban core, then anti-car proponents - who have controlled HRM policy for more than a decade now - have done little to actually make it happen.

[LikesBikes]

If the objective was to reduce or remove cars from the urban core, then anti-car proponents - who have controlled HRM policy for more than a decade now - have done little to actually make it happen.

Agreed. We has to be more protected bike infrastructure, better sidewalks and more transit lanes now. Council needs to be better and stop kowtowing to drivers.

[Colin May]

Agreed. We has to be more protected bike infrastructure, better sidewalks and more transit lanes now. Council needs to be better and stop kowtowing to drivers.
Yes, people heading to the QE2 or the VG are such a nuisance. For every person living on the peninsula there are 5 people living off the peninsula. There are not enough buses to carry people who leave a car at home. Do you work shifts ?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Agreed. We has to be more protected bike infrastructure, better sidewalks and more transit lanes now. Council needs to be better and stop kowtowing to drivers.

Is that what is happening? Kowtowing to drivers?

[Hali87]

"And in Halifax, turning itself into a relatively compact, walkable, climate-friendly city and shunning sprawl has become embedded in all planning decisions right up to the mayor's office.


I get that people get annoyed by things like height limits (especially on a skyscraper site) but in practice I think Halifax has made greater strides in these areas over the last 20 years than any other city in Canada smaller than Vancouver. And Halifax is objectively more willing to make things less convenient for drivers than almost any other city in Canada (+US). There has been relatively little suburban development since Savage has been Mayor and the suburban stuff that did get built is walkable and dense compared to almost any equivalent greenfield developments in the ROC.

[LikesBikes]

Yes, people heading to the QE2 or the VG are such a nuisance. For every person living on the peninsula there are 5 people living off the peninsula. There are not enough buses to carry people who leave a car at home. Do you work shifts ?

Which is why developing better transit infrastructure is necessary. Expecting every person who lives in the suburbs to own and maintain their own car is crazy.

[LikesBikes]

Is that what is happening? Kowtowing to drivers?

The city has built something like 3 km of protected bike lanes in the past few years even though the plan was for 57 km network. This seems incredibly slow compared to other cities investing in new AT infrastructure (i.e. all other major cities in the country).

[GTG_78]

Agreed. We has to be more protected bike infrastructure, better sidewalks and more transit lanes now. Council needs to be better and stop kowtowing to drivers.

More than 80% of Canadian adults own or lease a vehicle. Drivers comprise a supermajority of the population. One would expect HRM to listen to and respect their concerns. And drivers have accommodated changes with key lanes on Robie and Wyse Road being re-appropriated to their detriment.

[GTG_78]

The city has built something like 3 km of protected bike lanes in the past few years even though the plan was for 57 km network. This seems incredibly slow compared to other cities investing in new AT infrastructure (i.e. all other major cities in the country).

This is incorrect. HRM has built approximately 11 kilometres while blowing through more than 80% of the budget that was allocated for 45 kilometres. It will cost tens of millions more to complete the network as envisioned.

[Drybrain]

More than 80% of Canadian adults own or lease a vehicle. Drivers comprise a supermajority of the population. One would expect HRM to listen to and respect their concerns. And drivers have accommodated changes with key lanes on Robie and Wyse Road being re-appropriated to their detriment.

Owning a car doesn't make a person politically opposed to bike lanes. I own a vehicle. But in the city I use a bike at least as much as I drive, and often use transit as well. Few people exclusively use one mode of transport--even people who live in entirely car dependant areas still walk from time to time.

[GTG_78]

Owning a car doesn't make a person politically opposed to bike lanes.

Did I suggest otherwise? No. I am not the one that described drivers as an enemy political class that politicians 'kowtow' to.

[Drybrain]

I get that people get annoyed by things like height limits (especially on a skyscraper site) but in practice I think Halifax has made greater strides in these areas over the last 20 years than any other city in Canada smaller than Vancouver. And Halifax is objectively more willing to make things less convenient for drivers than almost any other city in Canada (+US). There has been relatively little suburban development since Savage has been Mayor and the suburban stuff that did get built is walkable and dense compared to almost any equivalent greenfield developments in the ROC.

This is definitely true; Halifax has been building in a denser, more centralized, more urban fashion than most cities in the country these past few years. I don't think I'd chalk that up primarily to vision of the mayor and council, so much as a combination of circumstances, including changes to the planning regime, simple lifestyle changes, and an influx of people from elsewhere in the country/world. But it is true that the city is building up and not out, to simplify things.

One place where the city is fumbling though, as this thread is making clear, is on supporting infrastructure, whether we're talking about housing, transportation, or whatever else.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The city has built something like 3 km of protected bike lanes in the past few years even though the plan was for 57 km network. This seems incredibly slow compared to other cities investing in new AT infrastructure (i.e. all other major cities in the country).

How is this "kowtowing to drivers"? Taking care of road infrastructure (upon which cycling lanes are built, BTW) is providing a necessary service to the city's citizens, or in other words, councillors doing their job (though how much they are actually taking care of infrastructure is debateable). Buses and goods transport also use those roads as well, FWIW.

The city should have built bicycle infrastructure 30 years ago, but regardless bicycle traffic won't ever come up to the numbers of people who move by transit and the personal vehicle. Even cities like Vancouver, with a climate more conducive to cycling and cycling infrastructure that Halifax could only dream of (plus superior transit options), is still highly populated with cars and trucks.

Halifax is now playing catch-up on bike infrastructure, but it is expensive and takes time. I can't say how many km they've built in the past year (though GTG_78 indicates that it's 11 km, not 3), but you're also ignoring the other additions to cycling infrastructure, like traffic signalling aimed at improving cyclists' movement through intersections for example. None of this is cheap, and it all takes time.

Now read an excerpt from Hali87's post above which indicates the reality on the ground in Halifax:
And Halifax is objectively more willing to make things less convenient for drivers than almost any other city in Canada (+US).
Hali speaks the truth.

This doesn't indicate "kowtowing to drivers" to me... because Halifax isn't doing that. In fact it's doing the opposite.

Need more evidence? Read Halifax's Integrated Mobility Plan (https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/about-the-city/regional-community-planning/IMP_report_171220-WEB.pdf)... it's clearly weighted to benefit cyclists more than any group in the city, yet we still have to read some members saying that Halifax is "kowtowing to drivers", apparently without considering what is actually going on here.

[someone123]

I get that people get annoyed by things like height limits (especially on a skyscraper site) but in practice I think Halifax has made greater strides in these areas over the last 20 years than any other city in Canada smaller than Vancouver. And Halifax is objectively more willing to make things less convenient for drivers than almost any other city in Canada (+US). There has been relatively little suburban development since Savage has been Mayor and the suburban stuff that did get built is walkable and dense compared to almost any equivalent greenfield developments in the ROC.

These days Halifax has shot past Vancouver on the development side. While we have a lot of tower developments here, the city is very picky about where they do or don't happen (a lot of it is in suburban municipalities) and many inner city areas, including some without much character worth preserving, are underdeveloped. On cycling infrastructure Vancouver is still ahead but the gap has narrowed, from Vancouver having pretty good cycling infrastructure in the past vs. nothing at all in Halifax. Vancouver's grid makes it much easier to put in cycling routes that are just shifted 1 street off from the major corridors.

In transit Halifax is still woefully behind, while Halifax has the better highway system of the two cities. Halifax is much smaller than Vancouver but Vancouver builds a new SkyTrain extension every decade or even less. Vancouver is going to be up over 80 km of rapid transit with elevated/underground sections while I am not sure HRM could follow through to build a single small streetcar style line.

We do have some legitimately anti-car NIMBYism here that weaponizes cycling infrastructure sometimes, causing major traffic tie-ups, and I wonder if that is happening in Halifax. The "bike lane politics" are similar in both cities as well with people getting way too worked up about a minor issue. I wish governments and people would just broadly focus on trying to provide as many useful kinds of transportation modalities as possible. Part of what's going on is that Canada is broadly failing to build adequate infrastructure and citizens are directing frustrations at what does get built.

[someone123]

Even cities like Vancouver, with a climate more conducive to cycling and cycling infrastructure that Halifax could only dream of (plus superior transit options), is still highly populated with cars and trucks.

I don't want to get into the old climate debate but the reality is either you're a hardcore cyclist here or you take transit or drive on some bad days. This is not San Diego. The number of truly "nice" days is pretty similar; it already snowed here a couple weeks ago.

Vancouver has its own challenges as well like much bigger hills and mountains than Halifax and bridge and traffic issues that are no better. Both major universities here are up large hills and in general the destinations are more spread out, while the Halifax peninsula and inner Dartmouth are the perfect scale for cycling.

[LikesBikes]

Oh boy so this conversation again...

I don't have the time to go over everything but here are some basic facts of the situation.

- The Integrated Transportation Master Plan calls for 52km of active transportation infrastructure to be done by 2022. Thus far, 40% has been completed and the City is planning on building 2-3 km in the next year. I don't know about y'all, but 40% is a failure where I come from. Whether this is kowtowing to anti-bike interests or not doesn't really matter, to me it represents this Plan is not being treated seriously by the City.
- Compare this to other cities and you'll see this is a pathetic increase (Calgary did 6km in one year, MTL has a plan for 200km).
- Further, as someone not from the HRM orgiinally, the existing bike infrastructure here pre-Integrated Transportation Master Plan must have simply been non-existant as Halifax is way behind other cities in this regard. Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver are all miles and miles ahead of us in protected bike lanes. The fact there's currently no protected bike infrastructure from downtown to the north end, downtown to the west end, or on/off the bridge to dartmouth is sad.
- The need for more bike infrastructure is evident for a variety of reasons - not enough space on our roads for more cars, climate action targets, people living downtown or on the peninsula often don't need or want cars.
- Local residents want more bike infrastructure as evident through city surveys and outreach (e.g., 2018 Halifax Survey, another survey posted here a while back showing locals, especially on the peninsula, wanting to bike but not feeling safe enough to do so).
- If you're worried about cost and don't think we can afford to install a curb for a protected bike lane, perhaps consider how much we spend on other things compared to bike infrastructure. In the 2021-2022 budget cycle, 61 million were spent on capital projects and $6 million for AT infrastructure (though a lot of this wasn't even bike lanes but instead things like the Windsor Street Exchange redevelopment). Looking at a higher level, the Province and Feds contribute literal hundreds of millions/billions of dollars to highways all the time with barely anyone raising an eyebrow at all. Consider the Province has 9 highway projects under construction and the amount of tax money going towards AT is probably around 1% of our tax bill and maybe 2% of the overall money going towards transportation.
- Lastly, people on here act as if building a bike lane makes a street unusable for cars which is frankly ridiculous. Wyse Road still has lots of room for cars. South Park Street still is accessible for drivers. At worst, they take up a lane which usually isn't the end of the world.

Source:
https://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/halifax-cycling-network-lags-behind-region-promises/Content?oid=29704322



:runaway:

[Colin May]

The city has built something like 3 km of protected bike lanes in the past few years even though the plan was for 57 km network. This seems incredibly slow compared to other cities investing in new AT infrastructure (i.e. all other major cities in the country).
Where do you live and where do you work ?
Do you work shifts ?
Do you work on weekends ?
Are you an essential worker ?

[LikesBikes]

Where do you live and where do you work ?
Do you work shifts ?
Do you work on weekends ?
Are you an essential worker ?

None of these questions are relevant at all to the quote you pulled :koko:

[Drybrain]

Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver are all miles and miles ahead of us in protected bike lanes.



Would never defend our slow, unambitious AT rollout—and I’m very jealous of Montreal especially—but I wonder where Calgary has gotten this reputation as a cycling leader. The city built 6 km of lanes in 2015—up from zero—and then added incrementally for the next half-decade. It added 11 km in 2021, a good catch up, but it still has only 23 km built towards the 30 km it was supposed to have in 2020, with no plans for more next year. Worse than Halifax, really, when you consider the vast sprawl of the place and relatively smaller proportion of the population served by the lanes that do exist.

The Sutcliffe victory in Ottawa’s mayoral election also doesn’t bode well for cycling there, but I guess that strongly depends on the makeup of council.

[Colin May]

None of these questions are relevant at all to the quote you pulled :koko:
The questions are very relevant because there are other issues of much greater importance to people who live in HRM and the importance of getting from A to B depends on why you need to get from A to B, and at what time/day you need to get from A to B.
Only 16% of the HRM population live on the peninsula.
If you live in Sackville how do you get to the VG for cataract surgery scheduled for 7 a.m. ?
Or, if you live near the VG how do you get to Cobequid for a colonoscopy at 7 a.m ?
Age, place of residence, place of work and time of work are all relevant.

[Keith P.]

Oh boy so this conversation again...


I was participating in a similar discussion over in the Transportation section and have now found a similar one happening simultaneously here. It is like a case of seasonal allergies that afflicts this site from time to time. A new cycling activist shows up and we all start sneezing all over again...

A couple of points: The HRM plans were not thought out by staff but instead were a production of the cycling lobby. Our august Council merely rubber-stamped what was put in front of them. No thought was given to how it would be done nor what it would all cost. Nor was any attention paid to the potential fallout from those negatively affected either financially or practically. Only now are we seeing the citizenry recognize the lunacy of building infrastructure that remains largely unused, while crippling our already inadequate road network at large cost in a time that we face significant tax increases. Voices are beginning to become louder to stop the madness.

One other point: the author mentions several times the goal/need for a protected bike network. One should quickly realize that this is a mostly unattainable goal. Cyclists will always eventually need to mix with other modes of transportation to get where they are going. The idea of a protected network just for them is largely unrealistic. It is not much different than motorists demanding a separate road network for 18-wheelers because they are scared to mix with them on the roads.

[LikesBikes]

Would never defend our slow, unambitious AT rollout—and I’m very jealous of Montreal especially—but I wonder where Calgary has gotten this reputation as a cycling leader. The city built 6 km of lanes in 2015—up from zero—and then added incrementally for the next half-decade. It added 11 km in 2021, a good catch up, but it still has only 23 km built towards the 30 km it was supposed to have in 2020, with no plans for more next year. Worse than Halifax, really, when you consider the vast sprawl of the place and relatively smaller proportion of the population served by the lanes that do exist.

The Sutcliffe victory in Ottawa’s mayoral election also doesn’t bode well for cycling there, but I guess that strongly depends on the makeup of council.

I always got the impression Calgary was a fine city for cycling, probably around the Canadian average. There are some good trails there and a fairly progressive council so I could also see it moving more in that direction. The point of including the 11km number though was to say that the amount we're growing by is very small even compared to cities we don't associate with biking - e.g., Caltown.

Ottawa is an interesting case study and it seems like Sutcliffe will probably be status quo which is still better than what we're doing. There's lots of good improvents they're making, especially in regard to protected intersections.

[LikesBikes]

The questions are very relevant because there are other issues of much greater importance to people who live in HRM and the importance of getting from A to B depends on why you need to get from A to B, and at what time/day you need to get from A to B.
Only 16% of the HRM population live on the peninsula.
If you live in Sackville how do you get to the VG for cataract surgery scheduled for 7 a.m. ?
Or, if you live near the VG how do you get to Cobequid for a colonoscopy at 7 a.m ?
Age, place of residence, place of work and time of work are all relevant.

Building a bike lane doesn't make it harder for someone to make any of those trips, it just allows them to do it by using a bike which is a more affordable, healthy and enjoyable way to get around.

I've worked shifts and weekends before where a majority of people would arrive via AT and transit. I was also raised in the suburbs but would bike to school and bike to friends which was great. Being driven by your parents everywhere sounds awful. Nowadays that's probably less common as most cars are the size of tanks and any notion of children having independence has disappeared.

[LikesBikes]

A couple of points: The HRM plans were not thought out by staff but instead were a production of the cycling lobby.


Source? And also, whose the cycling lobby? The integrated transportation plan was developed by planners, engineers and community members, like every other planning document pretty much...


Our august Council merely rubber-stamped what was put in front of them. No thought was given to how it would be done nor what it would all cost. Nor was any attention paid to the potential fallout from those negatively affected either financially or practically. /QUOTE]

The amount of money going towards AT is tiny in the grand scheme of things. If you're worried about taxes going up then you should be thinking more about the cost of new roads in exurban areas and the maintenance costs of servicing them. Here's an example from Ottawa showing how low density development in the suburbs ends up costing the city more - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/urban-expansion-costs-menard-memo-1.6193429.



[QUOTE=Keith P.;9797611]
One other point: the author mentions several times the goal/need for a protected bike network. One should quickly realize that this is a mostly unattainable goal. Cyclists will always eventually need to mix with other modes of transportation to get where they are going. The idea of a protected network just for them is largely unrealistic. It is not much different than motorists demanding a separate road network for 18-wheelers because they are scared to mix with them on the roads.

In cities that build bike infrastructure well (Montreal, Vancouver, tons of cities in Europe), cyclists use the infrastructure. Halifax hasn't built enough infrastructure yet and what's been built is pretty crappy which is why we don't have a ton of people biking yet.

[GTG_78]

Building a bike lane doesn't make it harder for someone to make any of those trips, it just allows them to do it by using a bike which is a more affordable, healthy and enjoyable way to get around.

I've worked shifts and weekends before where a majority of people would arrive via AT and transit. I was also raised in the suburbs but would bike to school and bike to friends which was great. Being driven by your parents everywhere sounds awful. Nowadays that's probably less common as most cars are the size of tanks and any notion of children having independence has disappeared.

I don't know why this needs to be stated, but a person going for cataract surgery or a colonoscopy is not going to be cycling, let alone from *Sackville* to their appointment.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I don't want to get into the old climate debate but the reality is either you're a hardcore cyclist here or you take transit or drive on some bad days. This is not San Diego. The number of truly "nice" days is pretty similar; it already snowed here a couple weeks ago.

Vancouver has its own challenges as well like much bigger hills and mountains than Halifax and bridge and traffic issues that are no better. Both major universities here are up large hills and in general the destinations are more spread out, while the Halifax peninsula and inner Dartmouth are the perfect scale for cycling.

I don't think there is a climate debate, actually. Vancouver and Halifax have different climates, which is a more complicated conversation than simply relying on mean temperature data, etc.

For example, people who collect classic cars will often shop for them in BC because they tend to be less rusty than east coast cars of similar vintage which mostly disappeared 30 - 40 years ago. Why, you say, when mean temperature data suggests that the climates are similar, and the west coast also has high humidity?

Use of road salt would be the answer - from your chemistry classes you will remember that steel gives up electrons more readily in a solution of salt water vs water alone. Why would more road salt be used on the east coast? Icy roads would be the answer. The same icy roads that are less conducive to cycling, one would surmise.

Mind you, I haven't lived in Vancouver as you have, so I don't really know. I do know that cycling culture in Vancouver is big, much more than that of Halifax, and I can say anecdotally from visiting Vancouver that there is more cycling infrastructure available, and more cyclists using it, which brings me back to the point that with more optimal infrastructure and usage than Halifax, Vancouver still has a car traffic problem that results in things like sitting in non-moving traffic for a half hour to just get across the Lions Gate bridge (the west coast cousin of the Macdonald bridge), which I have done.

Nonetheless, it wasn't an important point, just an illustration that cycling infrastructure is great for those who want to use it, and all cities should have decent cycling infrastructure, but it still isn't going to take a major bite out of traffic like good transit would (i.e. Skytrain, for example).

So, saying that the city is 'kowtowing to drivers' is a loaded (and false) statement, when the vast majority of people depend on roads just to live their lives (not for 'fun'). Of course there are better ways to do it, which is why many of us have complained about Halifax's lack of effort to provide decent transit so that people could have an efficient and convenient alternative to jumping into their car to go anywhere.

It's really a simple conversation that is easy to understand without all the loaded rhetoric that people cling to when trying to defend their 'side'. IMHO, there are no sides, as we all really want the same thing... acceptable, efficient ways of moving about... and there are many ways to achieve that goal.

[LikesBikes]

I don't know why this needs to be stated, but a person going for cataract surgery or a colonoscopy is not going to be cycling, let alone from *Sackville* to their appointment.

Again, everyone acknowledges biking won't be for everyone (just like walking isn't for everyone and driving isn't for everyone). That doesn't mean though we shouldn't make it safe for people who choose or are forced to use a bike (reasons could be lacking transit and inability to afford or operate a car.) Further, in your example there's still going to be doctors, nurses, and other employees at the hospital or medical centre who may choose to bike if safe infrastructure is provided.

[Keith P.]

Again, everyone acknowledges biking won't be for everyone (just like walking isn't for everyone and driving isn't for everyone). That doesn't mean though we shouldn't make it safe for people who choose or are forced to use a bike (reasons could be lacking transit and inability to afford or operate a car.) Further, in your example there's still going to be doctors, nurses, and other employees at the hospital or medical centre who may choose to bike if safe infrastructure is provided.

It already exists. It's known as a bus or a taxi.

[LikesBikes]

It already exists. It's known as a bus or a taxi.

Transit service sucks in most cities outside of the core and who is going to afford a taxi to commute to work everyday? :koko:

[Keith P.]

Source? And also, whose the cycling lobby? The integrated transportation plan was developed by planners, engineers and community members, like every other planning document pretty much...


No, it was produced by one Ms. Kelsey (Bike) Lane, then head of the Halifax Cycling Coalition, now with the Ecology Action Center (last time I looked). She bought Mason a coffee, gave him the document, and presto, an Active Transportation Strategy was born. That's pretty much how it went down. And of course the tyro HRM planners, fresh out of school, lapped it up.

[someone123]

Use of road salt would be the answer - from your chemistry classes you will remember that steel gives up electrons more readily in a solution of salt water vs water alone. Why would more road salt be used on the east coast? Icy roads would be the answer. The same icy roads that are less conducive to cycling, one would surmise.

I guess but road salt is used here too, though not as much and sometimes it isn't used when it should be. It's already been used around my area and it's not uncommon for us to have a week or two of ice and snow per year and of course we have heavy rain sometimes or wind storms and last summer it went over 40 with the heat dome. My point is you need to have some kind of plan for this as a bicycle commuter, and it doesn't matter much to logistics or annual biking rates if this happens for 2 weeks a year or 2 months a year. Even if cycling is a 6 month a year activity it's worthwhile.

The road salt and generally better winter maintenance is actually an equalizer. NS certainly isn't great but when it snows here a lot of side streets or pedestrian paths are not cleared at all. Farther afield you see people biking in more wintry places than Halifax like Montreal or Helsinki. Globally I don't think the Halifax climate is that out there for cycling. It's maybe middle of the pack in NA or even above average since so many places have swampy 30+ summer weather that isn't good for cycling at all.

Mind you, I haven't lived in Vancouver as you have, so I don't really know. I do know that cycling culture in Vancouver is big, much more than that of Halifax, and I can say anecdotally from visiting Vancouver that there is more cycling infrastructure available, and more cyclists using it, which brings me back to the point that with more optimal infrastructure and usage than Halifax, Vancouver still has a car traffic problem that results in things like sitting in non-moving traffic for a half hour to just get across the Lions Gate bridge (the west coast cousin of the Macdonald bridge), which I have done.

The goal of cycling infrastructure isn't to make car traffic lighter and nicer, it's to allow people to do trips by bike. Given the relative percentages and the way the traffic tends to rebalance itself across modes according to travel times and cost, cycling infrastructure is not likely to be a significant traffic solution and shouldn't be sold as one.

I'm not sure I've seen any large/growing cities with all 3 of functional urbanism (any vibrancy whatsoever), "all you can drive" roads (no congestion charges), and light traffic. I think the right solution there is better transit and congestion fees as well as some tactical road improvements when possible. I don't think cycling infrastructure interferes with those other goals much if at all.

[Drybrain]

To this discussion I would add that the bridge bikeway—the most controversially costly piece of the IMP—has been engineered specifically to keep bikes out of the way of traffic. A staff report to council this week indicated that if the flyover is ultimately cancelled and some less costly means of getting on the bridge pursued, only very minor impacts to car traffic will be allowed.

The idea that bike infrastructure is having some seriously deleterious effect on congestion is silly; I’m not aware of any data that shows this, and it definitely hasn’t been my experience anecdotally.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Would never defend our slow, unambitious AT rollout—and I’m very jealous of Montreal especially—but I wonder where Calgary has gotten this reputation as a cycling leader. The city built 6 km of lanes in 2015—up from zero—and then added incrementally for the next half-decade. It added 11 km in 2021, a good catch up, but it still has only 23 km built towards the 30 km it was supposed to have in 2020, with no plans for more next year. Worse than Halifax, really, when you consider the vast sprawl of the place and relatively smaller proportion of the population served by the lanes that do exist.

The Sutcliffe victory in Ottawa’s mayoral election also doesn’t bode well for cycling there, but I guess that strongly depends on the makeup of council.

I dunno... I recall being in Calgary in 1983(!), seeing bike lanes and wishing that Halifax had similar infrastructure (it had none). So, I'm not sure where you get the impression that it had zero bike infrastructure before 2015.

Back in Halifax I was sharing the roads with cars, cycling like my head was on a pivot to make sure that nobody was about to cut me off or turn in front of me. Without a helmet. Mind you, although drivers weren't perfect back then, they were less aggressive and more attentive, generally. There certainly didn't seem to be any car vs bicycle 'war' going on, and generally there seemed to be more respect between both sides.

Anecdotally, FWIW, my recent experiences with places that had more cycling infrastructure (Ottawa and Montreal, specifically) were not great as a pedestrian. In both places there were a few instances where, as a pedestrian on a "shared path", I was almost run down by cyclists that would zip up behind you, fail to use their bell as a warning, and blow by you so closely that you could feel the wind from them passing. In all of those cases, had I stepped slightly to the side (like to avoid a puddle or dog poop) I would have been creamed and probably spent the remainder of my vacation in pain (or the hospital). In Montreal I witnessed a cyclist almost take out a small child (who naturally will have the propensity to wander), presumably because the cyclist didn't want to slow down when approaching a family with small children. I know these are only the actions of individuals, but the 'kumbaya' talk of cyclists living in virtuous harmony with all those around, or even being grouped in with pedestrians is a bit misleading, IMHO. There are still real problems that will occur between cyclists and those who are 'lower in the pecking order'. :2cents:

[GTG_78]

Anecdotally, FWIW, my recent experiences with places that had more cycling infrastructure (Ottawa and Montreal, specifically) were not great as a pedestrian. In both places there were a few instances where, as a pedestrian on a "shared path", I was almost run down by cyclists that would zip up behind you, fail to use their bell as a warning, and blow by you so closely that you could feel the wind from them passing. In all of those cases, had I stepped slightly to the side (like to avoid a puddle or dog poop) I would have been creamed and probably spent the remainder of my vacation in pain (or the hospital). In Montreal I witnessed a cyclist almost take out a small child (who naturally will have the propensity to wander), presumably because the cyclist didn't want to slow down when approaching a family with small children. I know these are only the actions of individuals, but the 'kumbaya' talk of cyclists living in virtuous harmony with all those around, or even being grouped in with pedestrians is a bit misleading, IMHO. There are still real problems that will occur between cyclists and those who are 'lower in the pecking order'. :2cents:

If cycling usage does increase, there will need to be a broader re-examination of right of way to address this. The Netherlands opted to prioritize right-of-way for cyclists over drivers and pedestrians in shared spaces. Likely, a similar choice will become necessary here. Ultimately, we do not 'share' the road: the government (taking direction from voters) prioritizes one form of transportation over the other, and then sequences appropriately.

[someone123]

If cycling usage does increase, there will need to be a broader re-examination of right of way to address this. The Netherlands opted to prioritize right-of-way for cyclists over drivers and pedestrians in shared spaces. Likely, a similar choice will become necessary here. Ultimately, we do not 'share' the road: the government (taking direction from voters) prioritizes one form of transportation over the other, and then sequences appropriately.

This was at least partly because it is so difficult for cyclists to accelerate. But the need for that kind of priority might be getting outdated with electric bikes. And the % of cyclists is high in places like Amsterdam.

I don't think society or cities are even close to adapting to vehicles that take advantage of modern technology. Both small electric vehicles and limited self-driving. If we were building new cities from the ground up, we would probably want a completely different setup. Little to no manual drive at all, more specialized vehicles, etc.

[Drybrain]

I dunno... I recall being in Calgary in 1983(!), seeing bike lanes and wishing that Halifax had similar infrastructure (it had none). So, I'm not sure where you get the impression that it had zero bike infrastructure before 2015.


It had no on-street separated lanes (unless it had them back then and later got rid of them). It certainly had none when I lived there 10 years ago.

What it has had for a long time is a big network of off-road recreational paths, winding through its river valleys and escarpments. Those are really nice, but not always very effective for moving efficiently through the city.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I guess but road salt is used here too, though not as much and sometimes it isn't used when it should be. It's already been used around my area and it's not uncommon for us to have a week or two of ice and snow per year and of course we have heavy rain sometimes or wind storms and last summer it went over 40 with the heat dome. My point is you need to have some kind of plan for this as a bicycle commuter, and it doesn't matter much to logistics or annual biking rates if this happens for 2 weeks a year or 2 months a year. Even if cycling is a 6 month a year activity it's worthwhile.

The road salt and generally better winter maintenance is actually an equalizer. NS certainly isn't great but when it snows here a lot of side streets or pedestrian paths are not cleared at all. Farther afield you see people biking in more wintry places than Halifax like Montreal or Helsinki. Globally I don't think the Halifax climate is that out there for cycling. It's maybe middle of the pack in NA or even above average since so many places have swampy 30+ summer weather that isn't good for cycling at all.

Anyhow... it was a side point, so no debate necessary, and I already deferred to the expertise of somebody who lives there (i.e. you).

[OldDartmouthMark]

It had no on-street separated lanes (unless it had them back then and later got rid of them). It certainly had none when I lived there 10 years ago.

What it has had for a long time is a big network of off-road recreational paths, winding through its river valleys and escarpments. Those are really nice, but not always very effective for moving efficiently through the city.

You would know... I was only a visitor, and maybe I was thinking about the cycling trails, but I recall them cutting through the city, and on-street lanes (perhaps not separated?). Regardless, I wouldn't have had 'cycle-lane envy' if there was nothing, so...???

[Keith P.]

Anecdotally, FWIW, my recent experiences with places that had more cycling infrastructure (Ottawa and Montreal, specifically) were not great as a pedestrian. In both places there were a few instances where, as a pedestrian on a "shared path", I was almost run down by cyclists that would zip up behind you, fail to use their bell as a warning, and blow by you so closely that you could feel the wind from them passing. In all of those cases, had I stepped slightly to the side (like to avoid a puddle or dog poop) I would have been creamed and probably spent the remainder of my vacation in pain (or the hospital).

The bright side was that likely the reckless idiot cyclist would have had similar injuries and possibly have damaged his velocipede as well, so there would have been some solace in that.

If walking on such shared paths, a pair of elbow pads and a stout stick are a must.

[Kittle]

Transit service sucks in most cities outside of the core and who is going to afford a taxi to commute to work everyday? :koko:

The majority of increased cycling due to the construction of new infrastructure is largely those who "sometimes used cycling as a means of transportation", and those who used it as a primary means switching their routes to take advantage of the new infrastructure. The usage of the cycling infrastructure also depends on locality dependent factors. With so many who commute from far off the peninsula to work as has been mentioned, I highly doubt the increase in cycling per dollar spent would be worth it.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1361920921002145

Edit: can we also compromise that cyclists who use the sidewalk or car lanes out of convenience where unobstructed, usable bike lanes be fined for this? Just as I would say the driver of the car photographed parking their car in the Hollis bike lane a few weeks back deserves the same.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

I don't know what this development is called so maybe someone can help me out? It's the south west corner of Gottingen and Bilby. They're in there with a backhoe busting rock this morning.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52529660340_0972cfd8e9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o2SeUY)20221128_090754 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2SeUY) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr

[Summerville]

I don't know what this development is called so maybe someone can help me out? It's the south west corner of Gottingen and Bilby. They're in there with a backhoe busting rock this morning.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52529660340_0972cfd8e9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o2SeUY)20221128_090754 (https://flic.kr/p/2o2SeUY) by AJ Forsythe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194233676@N07/), on Flickr


That is the one with the clock