General Updates and News

[ILoveHalifax]

I remember back a few years they had to close the library because it was tooooo hot. Once the new library was announced it seems the old library was not so hot anymore.

[Keith P.]

Probably also true for the Dennis Building then?:shrug:

No that place has been well and truly a dump for decades.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Probably also true for the Dennis Building then?:shrug:

:D :cheers:

[JET]

:D :cheers:

Yep, I was thinkin' goose and gander. :tup:

[OldDartmouthMark]

From the Herald:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1295477-put-plywood-around-downtown-halifax-construction-sites-waye-mason

A local councillor wants downtown Halifax construction sites to be fenced in with plywood boards to dampen the noise and reduce the dust polluting surrounding streets.

Waye Mason (Halifax South Downtown) said chain-link fences aren’t providing adequate separation between developments and adjacent sidewalks, shops, restaurants and patios.

“It’s noisy, dirty and scary,” Mason said Thursday. “It’s creating a street-level environment that customers don’t want to walk by.”

I'm having a hard time imagining that fencing sites with plywood would have much effect on noise and dust unless you make it 50 feet tall. However, it would make it harder for those who are interested to see what's going on with the project.

Do people find construction sites "scary"?

Not wanting to be negative about a published quote by a fellow forum member, but the article seems a little overstated to me.

[Empire]

From the Herald:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1295477-put-plywood-around-downtown-halifax-construction-sites-waye-mason



I'm having a hard time imagining that fencing sites with plywood would have much effect on noise and dust unless you make it 50 feet tall. However, it would make it harder for those who are interested to see what's going on with the project.

Do people find construction sites "scary"?

Not wanting to be negative about a published quote by a fellow forum member, but the article seems a little overstated to me.

We could request a tarp stretching four floors high with a rendering of the building. This is done in Rome and Paris so no one sees the wretched construction process.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_1320_zpsosjrppqr.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/empire1_2007/media/IMG_1320_zpsosjrppqr.jpg.html)

[OldDartmouthMark]

We could request a tarp stretching four floors high with a rendering of the building. This is done in Rome and Paris so no one sees the wretched construction process.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_1320_zpsosjrppqr.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/empire1_2007/media/IMG_1320_zpsosjrppqr.jpg.html)

Uh-hh-h what construction? :haha:

[Dmajackson]

I noticed a digital message sign has been installed on Barrington St northbound just before the MacDonald Bridge ramp. IMO this is great especially with the MacDonald Bridge closures.

They really need a digital sign on Highway 118 inbound before Dartmouth Crossing. Last Saturday I came in from past Truro thinking the bridge was open and had no signage or anything until I got to Wyse & Boland! I had to detour down to Windmill and take a significant detour to the MacKay when I could of just gotten on the Circ and saved a lot of time!

I've now downloaded The Big Lift App so I shouldn't get surprised anymore but the benefits of a sign could extend well past this current construction mayhem.

[Ziobrop]

I personally hate plywood. You can't see what goes on, and it becomes a target for posters and taggers. Besides once the hole is dug, I don't think the sites produce that much dust.

The Nova center employed a sweeping crew during excavation that kept argyle clean and they washed down the street a few times per day. I was walking by the hole regularly and never really found the surrounding area dirty.

I do agree pedestrians do need to be better considered. Other cities put construction trailers up on platforms so the sidewalk remains open underneath rather then blocking it outright.

[gm_scott]

I noticed a digital message sign has been installed on Barrington St northbound just before the MacDonald Bridge ramp. IMO this is great especially with the MacDonald Bridge closures.

They really need a digital sign on Highway 118 inbound before Dartmouth Crossing. Last Saturday I came in from past Truro thinking the bridge was open and had no signage or anything until I got to Wyse & Boland! I had to detour down to Windmill and take a significant detour to the MacKay when I could of just gotten on the Circ and saved a lot of time!

I've now downloaded The Big Lift App so I shouldn't get surprised anymore but the benefits of a sign could extend well past this current construction mayhem.
Your wish will be granted very soon! The concrete footings for the signs at Miller Lake, and Dartmouth Crossing have been in the ground for a few weeks, and just a few days ago they started installing the metal uprights that will hold the signs. Sure will make driving a little bit easier.
Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-council-agrees-to-spend-1m-on-new-electronic-road-signs-1.3116651

[Hali87]

From the Herald:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1295477-put-plywood-around-downtown-halifax-construction-sites-waye-mason



I'm having a hard time imagining that fencing sites with plywood would have much effect on noise and dust unless you make it 50 feet tall. However, it would make it harder for those who are interested to see what's going on with the project.

Do people find construction sites "scary"?

Not wanting to be negative about a published quote by a fellow forum member, but the article seems a little overstated to me.


I wouldn't say "scary" (but then i don't really scare easily) but there's definitely a certain.. sketchiness around the Nova Centre site and Barrington, mostly because parts of the streets/sidewalks have been taken up as part of the site. I'm not positive that plywood would help this at all but mitigating the dust and noise would definitely be a plus for neighbours.

[fenwick16]

On a somewhat related topic, there was a story in the allnovascotia.com that there was a large dumpster in front of the NFB building that was blocking the sidewalk. Has this been remedied? Apparently the builder is bickering with the city over the issue; in this case the builder needs to do whatever is necessary to remedy the situation, not bicker with the city.

[q12]

Your wish will be granted very soon! The concrete footings for the signs at Miller Lake, and Dartmouth Crossing have been in the ground for a few weeks, and just a few days ago they started installing the metal uprights that will hold the signs. Sure will make driving a little bit easier.
Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-council-agrees-to-spend-1m-on-new-electronic-road-signs-1.3116651

Here is one of the current electronic variable message signs installed on Highway 111 and a map of the new signs being installed this week:

http://i60.tinypic.com/21liykx.png

http://i59.tinypic.com/25foqs2.png

[fenwick16]

Here is one of the current electronic variable message signs installed on Highway 111 and a map of the new signs being installed this week:




This is a good idea. Such signs have been used on the 401 through the GTA for the past 10 years or so (if my memory of the time period is correct).

[alps]

Anyone know what that large building going up at Stadacona is?

[pblaauw]

Anyone know what that large building going up at Stadacona is?

It's a barracks/mess for junior ranks, I believe.

[Empire]

I noticed a digital message sign has been installed on Barrington St northbound just before the MacDonald Bridge ramp. IMO this is great especially with the MacDonald Bridge closures.

They really need a digital sign on Highway 118 inbound before Dartmouth Crossing. Last Saturday I came in from past Truro thinking the bridge was open and had no signage or anything until I got to Wyse & Boland! I had to detour down to Windmill and take a significant detour to the MacKay when I could of just gotten on the Circ and saved a lot of time!

I've now downloaded The Big Lift App so I shouldn't get surprised anymore but the benefits of a sign could extend well past this current construction mayhem.

It would be nice if traffic cams on the bridges could be added to the NS highway webcam site. Given that we don' have any city traffic cams it would be a good addition.

[Keith P.]

Considering that the roads in HRM that NS TIR is responsible for cannot even get potholes repaired and lines repainted in a timely manner, good luck. We all like to dump on HRM for their neglect of certain basic services but they are a model of responsiveness when compared to the province, where TIR's neglect and seeming lack of urgency to fix things is truly shameful.

[JET]

On a somewhat related topic, there was a story in the allnovascotia.com that there was a large dumpster in front of the NFB building that was blocking the sidewalk. Has this been remedied? Apparently the builder is bickering with the city over the issue; in this case the builder needs to do whatever is necessary to remedy the situation, not bicker with the city.
Sort of have to wonder why they need a dumpster; since it's an empty shell, a small garbage can should suffice. :)

[fenwick16]

Sort of have to wonder why they need a dumpster; since it's an empty shell, a small garbage can should suffice. :)


They might need something a bit bigger. However, couldn't they just use a couple small 2 yards dumpsters and have them emptied daily? They are only 3 feet wide; something this size x two or even three dumpsters https://www.wm.com/_ui/img/landing/2-yard-dumpster.jpg .

[Dmajackson]

Anyone know what that large building going up at Stadacona is?

This is Junior Ranks which will be residences and a new fleet club (link below has a rendering);

https://36.media.tumblr.com/96cbecb086fde8524a753232b7dc697e/tumblr_nqofzj4c1S1tvjdq8o1_1280.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (http://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/tagged/JuniorRanks)

[Ziobrop]

I noticed the dumpster and the hording was gone last week.
I suspect they never got the permit to close the sidewalk. Also a metro transit bus hit it one night, so I suspect the city had enough..

[beyeas]

Sort of have to wonder why they need a dumpster; since it's an empty shell, a small garbage can should suffice. :)

Queue the bi-weekly Cat9 joke.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I wouldn't say "scary" (but then i don't really scare easily) but there's definitely a certain.. sketchiness around the Nova Centre site and Barrington, mostly because parts of the streets/sidewalks have been taken up as part of the site. I'm not positive that plywood would help this at all but mitigating the dust and noise would definitely be a plus for neighbours.

I see what you mean about the sidewalk. I noticed around "The Maple" site yesterday that, yes, the missing sidewalk is definitely a pain. However, IMHO it's kind of nice to be able to look in and see what's going on - it's too bad they weren't able to keep the sidewalk open for people to get a better view. I wouldn't call it scary, necessarily, unless perhaps somebody suffers from acrophobia...

[Keith P.]

I noticed the dumpster and the hording was gone last week.
I suspect they never got the permit to close the sidewalk. Also a metro transit bus hit it one night, so I suspect the city had enough..

The story I read said they did have a permit and that HRM lowered the boom anyway. I suspect there are a couple of sides to this one. Not sure how you solve an issue like this where you have a landlocked site on a busy narrow street.

[JET]

The story I read said they did have a permit and that HRM lowered the boom anyway. I suspect there are a couple of sides to this one. Not sure how you solve an issue like this where you have a landlocked site on a busy narrow street.

Once/night you drive up a dump truck and use one of those conveyors and fill up and drive off. But only if the Moes know how to drive.

[alps]

It's a barracks/mess for junior ranks, I believe.

This is Junior Ranks which will be residences and a new fleet club (link below has a rendering);


Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (http://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/tagged/JuniorRanks)

Thanks :)

[teddifax]

Crane is being assembled on old Halifax West High School site today.

[JET]

That seems like a funny problem for a library to have. One would imagine they'd have built it a bit more robustly to deal with that.



Same with the Khyber. In that case, there HAS been a lot of deferred maintenance, and the building no doubt is in rough shape. And I'm worried about the long-term future of the building if the current fundraising effort and Neptune partnership somehow falls through. But it's not like the city's going to bring in the dozers in six months and auction off the lot to the highest bidder or something.

http://newscotlandclothing.ca/products/joel-plaskett-new-scotland-khyber-tee-100-canadian-made

[Drybrain]

http://newscotlandclothing.ca/products/joel-plaskett-new-scotland-khyber-tee-100-canadian-made

Cool. Plaskett's also doing a benefit concert at the Shore Club (http://joelplaskett.com/joel-plaskett-announces-benefit-for-the-khyber-building-fund/) in Hubbards in September.

[musicman]

Saw a bunch of dark blue crane sections coming from Haltern today. Looks to be a shinny new flat top. Hopefully it sticks around here.

[Dmajackson]

Beginning this week, and continuing until the end of September, Argyle Street will be closed from Thursday night - Sunday as part of pilot project to see what the street should look like following the opening of the Nova Centre in 2017.

DowntownHalifax.ca - Argyle Streetscaping Pilot Project (http://downtownhalifax.ca/campaign/argyle-streetscaping-pilot-project)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Beginning this week, and continuing until the end of September, Argyle Street will be closed from Thursday night - Sunday as part of pilot project to see what the street should look like following the opening of the Nova Centre in 2017.

DowntownHalifax.ca - Argyle Streetscaping Pilot Project (http://downtownhalifax.ca/campaign/argyle-streetscaping-pilot-project)

That should be interesting. The street is kind of a pain to drive down on the weekend as it is, so this should make it better for everybody. Hopefully it pays off for the businesses there.

[Keith P.]

That should be interesting. The street is kind of a pain to drive down on the weekend as it is, so this should make it better for everybody. Hopefully it pays off for the businesses there.

I suspect the businesses will start screaming when they realize people in or wanting cabs cannot get to them and deliveries get obstructed.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I suspect the businesses will start screaming when they realize people in or wanting cabs cannot get to them and deliveries get obstructed.

I'm assuming that the DHBC collaborated with the businesses involved, but admittedly I don't know much about their function.

[Drybrain]

I'm assuming that the DHBC collaborated with the businesses involved, but admittedly I don't know much about their function.

I actually think it makes sense to permit cars on the street at all times, but make them share space with pedestrians. A true woonerf/shared street.

But I don't think it should be a huge deal for deliveries. The street will be closed only two-and-a-half days a week, and as for cabs, no one will have to walk more than half a block to get a cab, to the nearest cross-street.

[counterfactual]

I suspect the businesses will start screaming when they realize people in or wanting cabs cannot get to them and deliveries get obstructed.

Yeah, I think deliveries would probably be allowed (likely early morning delivery truck access on weekdays). Makes sense.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I actually think it makes sense to permit cars on the street at all times, but make them share space with pedestrians. A true woonerf/shared street.

Does that actually work well? I would think that cars trying to drive through a mass of drunk people on a Saturday night could be a recipe for disaster.

Not challenging your idea, just asking a question.

[OldDartmouthMark]

From the CH:

Halifax council tangles with condo assessments

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1300613-halifax-council-tangles-with-condo-assessments


Also:

Council OKs land-use amendment for Burnside office space

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1300686-council-oks-land-use-amendment-for-burnside-office-space

[Drybrain]

Does that actually work well? I would think that cars trying to drive through a mass of drunk people on a Saturday night could be a recipe for disaster.

Not challenging your idea, just asking a question.



There are a number of places where this works--the key is designing the space so that it's obvious that cars must proceed with caution. One way is to lower the speed limit to, say, 20 km/h, but it should be obvious to a driver on the street that this is a slow-go zone. Removing lane markings and curbs and permitting pedestrians to spill out all over the place has the same effect.

Throw a bunch of people together in different transit modes, and they'll figure it out intuitively. I think even drink (most people, after all, aren't going to be falling down all over the place wasted.) If the street is narrow and there's a high volume of pedestrians, cars to slow. Kensington Market is a good example of this, though its streets aren't officially "shared." Pike Place in Seattle is a good example, and surely there must be drunk people there.

[OldDartmouthMark]

There are a number of places where this works--the key is designing the space so that it's obvious that cars must proceed with caution. One way is to lower the speed limit to, say, 20 km/h, but it should be obvious to a driver on the street that this is a slow-go zone. Removing lane markings and curbs and permitting pedestrians to spill out all over the place has the same effect.

Throw a bunch of people together in different transit modes, and they'll figure it out intuitively. I think even drink (most people, after all, aren't going to be falling down all over the place wasted.) If the street is narrow and there's a high volume of pedestrians, cars to slow. Kensington Market is a good example of this, though its streets aren't officially "shared." Pike Place in Seattle is a good example, and surely there must be drunk people there.

Interesting. I imagine that this type of situation would be enough to motivate most drivers to find another route, unless they absolutely had to go there, or if they had a need to show off their vehicle or whatever.

Personally, I'm a fan of the safety of clearly defined areas, as even relatively minor accidents like getting a foot run over (though a broken foot is not a minor injury) or getting hit with a mirror are unacceptable outcomes that could easily happen in that situation. Even a motorcycle can cause significant injuries.

But that's just me, the safety guy. I worry about stuff like that. As a pedestrian, I'd prefer to have the ease of mind to not have to be on the watch for a vehicle driving through the area I'm walking in, otherwise I'll choose the sidewalk, thank you. :2cents:

[counterfactual]

From the CH:

Council OKs land-use amendment for Burnside office space

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1300686-council-oks-land-use-amendment-for-burnside-office-space

Nothing every changes with these City Staff and Councillor morons when it comes to pro-sprawl policies. 14-2. Clown show.

I'm also sick and tired of reading quotes from Coun. Gloria McCluskey. I literally feel dumber each time I read one of her soundbites.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Nothing every changes with these City Staff and Councillor morons when it comes to pro-sprawl policies. 14-2. Clown show.

I'm also sick and tired of reading quotes from Coun. Gloria McCluskey. I literally feel dumber each time I read one of her soundbites.

There better be a an IKEA going in.:hell:

[stevencourchene]

what's the word on the Fenwick tower project? any word or updates on this?

[Metalsales]

I know the owner is talking with a few people about the cladding of the building. There is also an architect firm involved. They are working on pricing and then go from there

[counterfactual]

I know the owner is talking with a few people about the cladding of the building. There is also an architect firm involved. They are working on pricing and then go from there

I hope sometime soon. The big "for rent" sign is pretty tacky/awful.

[someone123]

Here's the new proposal for the Green Lantern/Keith building on Barrington Street. It's a simple change but part of an interesting trend on the street. I like how Barrington is becoming more and more of a medium-scaled street with a base of 6+ storey buildings and some highrises. It'll look a bit more imposing, like less of a small town main street, and more importantly the new residents will help support businesses in the area.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img537/69/SyX6qe.png

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/7126/FvY6BN.png

The renderings come from the DRC website: https://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/DesignReviewCommittee-HRM.php

[someone123]

Crombie is planning to move forward with Scotia Square improvements along Barrington in the fall as well, so there are lots of improvements still to come.

[alps]

Great news on both fronts! The Granville facade of the Green Lantern building looks much better than what's there currently.

[alps]

I was bored just now and decided to compare the downtown area taken up by surface parking lots in 2010 vs. today. I used this Google Maps tool (http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm) for a not-so-precise comparison. Here is the study area:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l217/halps00/studyarea_zpsoktzvtg2.png

The results:


2010: 10.16 hectares of surface parking
2015: 7.28 hectares of surface parking


A 29% decrease! For comparison, Grand Parade is about 0.61 ha and Citadel Hill around 21 ha. So we still have about 12 Grand Parades worth of surface parking lots downtown.

Major outstanding undeveloped lots include:

Infirmary/Dalhousie: 1.49 ha
Salter: 1.09
Waterfront Warehouse: 1.07
Queens Landing: 0.79
Cunard: 0.61 ha
Remaining sister site: 0.50 ha
Alexander: 0.34
Texpark: 0.29
Beside "The Maple": 0.28
St. Mary's block: 0.25 ha
Citadel Inn: 0.16 (unlikely to be developed)
International Place: 0.13
Ralston: 0.13
Birks: 0.09
Dominion Public Building: 0.06

[Nouvellecosse]

The amount that's left is obscene. It may be progress but I can't help but view the glass as being 71% empty.

[someone123]

The amount that's left is obscene. It may be progress but I can't help but view the glass as being 71% empty.

There is way too much but what I like at least is that a large contiguous area is developing where you find lots of medium and high density buildings and almost no surface parking.

It sucks that the waterfront is half parking but it would be far worse if those empty holes were along the city's main streets. It is better to have some good areas and some bad areas than a bunch of mediocre, dysfunctional streets.

The Cunard and Alexander lots should at least be gone soon.

[fenwick16]

Here's the new proposal for the Green Lantern/Keith building on Barrington Street. It's a simple change but part of an interesting trend on the street. I like how Barrington is becoming more and more of a medium-scaled street with a base of 6+ storey buildings and some highrises. It'll look a bit more imposing, like less of a small town main street, and more importantly the new residents will help support businesses in the area.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img537/69/SyX6qe.png

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/7126/FvY6BN.png

The renderings come from the DRC website: https://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/DesignReviewCommittee-HRM.php


This is a great looking project in my opinion. It is good to see the architecturally interesting side of the Green Lantern Building being saved.

[Metalsales]

Crombie is planning to move forward with Scotia Square improvements along Barrington in the fall as well, so there are lots of improvements still to come.

The tender for this project is out. Very nice looking extension and will greatly improve the street face on this

[Drybrain]

The amount that's left is obscene. It may be progress but I can't help but view the glass as being 71% empty.

Hey, in only five years, that's really good, especially for a city where we're bombarded with "death of downtown" news all the time.

Surely we've all seen what Toronto's most historical downtown neighbourhood looked like by the late 70s/early 80s.


http://www.blogto.com/upload/2011/10/20111011-Toronto-parking-lots-history.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/thecharioteer/Decorated%20images/Decorated%20images/a816e8281c911a65767610bdd8c6e76d.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/thecharioteer/Decorated%20images/Decorated%20images/b7eec9ea24cf752fccc44a8db8666807.jpg


Halifax came later to downtown revitalization, but we're catching up fast.

[counterfactual]

Hey, in only five years, that's really good, especially for a city where we're bombarded with "death of downtown" news all the time.

Surely we've all seen what Toronto's most historical downtown neighbourhood looked like by the late 70s/early 80s.

Halifax came later to downtown revitalization, but we're catching up fast.

Some aspects Toronto came to first (some great density development to full in those ugly spaces around there as you note), but others we were there before them. And in ways, Toronto is still screwing it up, though, with spineless City politicians pandering to selfish sprawl denizens. By that, I mean John Tory, who, against City Staff and all the best urban planning advice, has decided to half-ass dealing with the ugly Gardiner, just to save commuters a few minutes drive in. Not Rob Ford bad, but still cretinous pandering.

This is one thing Halifax got right and Toronto got wrong. Thankfully, we stopped the bulldozing of Historic properties in the 1960/70s (ironically, only to let them decline via bad maintenance... but anyways) while Toronto mostly allowed it, with the building of the Gardiner. Besides destroying their waterfront for a generation with that ugly and unhealthy expressway, they literally tore through Toronto's version of Coney Island to do it-- Sunnyside Amusement Park to do it, which was really popular:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnyside_Amusement_Park

Place was huge in the 30s, with Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Paul Whiteman and the Dorsey Brothers all playing at Palais Royale there during the height of the swing era.

[counterfactual]

I was bored just now and decided to compare the downtown area taken up by surface parking lots in 2010 vs. today. I used this Google Maps tool (http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm) for a not-so-precise comparison. Here is the study area:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l217/halps00/studyarea_zpsoktzvtg2.png

The results:


2010: 10.16 hectares of surface parking
2015: 7.28 hectares of surface parking


A 29% decrease! For comparison, Grand Parade is about 0.61 ha and Citadel Hill around 21 ha. So we still have about 12 Grand Parades worth of surface parking lots downtown.

Major outstanding undeveloped lots include:

Excellent post, by the way, alp. Thanks for that!

[counterfactual]

Here's the new proposal for the Green Lantern/Keith building on Barrington Street. It's a simple change but part of an interesting trend on the street. I like how Barrington is becoming more and more of a medium-scaled street with a base of 6+ storey buildings and some highrises. It'll look a bit more imposing, like less of a small town main street, and more importantly the new residents will help support businesses in the area.

The renderings come from the DRC website: https://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/DesignReviewCommittee-HRM.php

Agree with Fenwick, I really, really, like this. Mid scale but really adds another import shot of residential density that will feed and rejuvenate the street.

[someone123]

Here's a small project under construction on Maitland Street called Maitland Mews. It's between the older Maitland rowhouses and the newer Brickyard development:

http://maitlandlofts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/VIZ_0005.jpg

http://maitlandlofts.com/maitland-mews/

[Jonovision]

I just happened to grab a picture of that construction site last week.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/95ea2d34c3ca46bd8fb6d675de1e26b7/tumblr_nsw1uaLsBn1sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

[bluenoser]

Halifax brew pub Rogues Roost to close doors by Oct. 1

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1303442-halifax-brew-pub-rogues-roost-to-close-doors-by-oct.-1
http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_image/articles/B97486977Z.120150805164112000GUFAFQGC.11.jpg

Honestly, this development had better be pretty amazing. Maybe they're in shambles, I don't know, but I still struggle with the idea of tearing down that beautiful, unique sandstone building - let alone a whole block of interesting buildings housing established shops / restaurants.

However, I do recognize that this block is a pivotal location that arguably has lower density than it should.

[Keith P.]

It is an awful building from the standpoint of the tenants. Now one can argue that is because the owner has failed to maintain it, but a building is not much different from a car - at some point the cost of repairs no longer makes sense and you are better off getting a new one.

[Drybrain]

Honestly, this development had better be pretty amazing. Maybe they're in shambles, I don't know, but I still struggle with the idea of tearing down that beautiful, unique sandstone building - let alone a whole block of interesting buildings housing established shops / restaurants.

However, I do recognize that this block is a pivotal location that arguably has lower density than it should.

I don't even think the density is too low. You can travel throughout central Montreal/Toronto and see plenty of blocks of similar density.

If the buildings were of lesser quality, I'd say we should build it up, but this is one of the last blocks in the entire city that should get the tear-down treatment. I can't express how disappointing this is. I'm sure the buildings are in semi-decrepit shape, but that's because Chedrawe has spent than a decade barely maintaining them.

Look at the Green Lantern--surely it's in rough shape as well, but it's about to be restored. Look at NFB or the Dillon. There's nothing wrong with these buildings that isn't within the normal range of historical restorations and renovations. The owner in this case just prefers to do otherwise. Defensible from a business perspective, but from an aesthetic and cultural perspective, I think it's a tremendous mistake. And rather a weird choice in 2015, when heritage is thinner on the ground and ever-more valued by prospective tenants.

[Drybrain]

It is an awful building from the standpoint of the tenants. Now one can argue that is because the owner has failed to maintain it, but a building is not much different from a car - at some point the cost of repairs no longer makes sense and you are better off getting a new one.

That's probably true, but due to the historical, cultural, architectural, etc. factors at play (and the fact that buildings like these were built to last indefinitely, if well maintained) that point is takes a lot longer to reach with a building than with a car.

[hokus83]

Going from 3 stories to 5 stories I wouldn't call that a note worthy density boost for a city block

[Drybrain]

Going from 3 stories to 5 stories I wouldn't call that a note worthy density boost for a city block

Also true. It's really a lose-lose-lose project, IMO. We lose signifiant architectural heritage, we lose a great retail and see the dispersal of several beloved businesses, and we get only a modest density increase.

This is the only development in the whole city centre right now that I think is clearly wrongheaded, with no major pros to outweight the cons.

[Keith P.]

Also true. It's really a lose-lose-lose project, IMO. We lose signifiant architectural heritage, we lose a great retail and see the dispersal of several beloved businesses

What great retail? I must be missing something.

I guess you are referring to Tom's when you say "beloved" since there is nothing else in that block I can even name aside from Rogues, which is one of the worst pubs around. The stories I could tell you... the fact I have not let anything made there pass my lips in over 15 years tells you all you are going to get on that subject from me.

[kph06]

I noticed HRM planning have updated their site and have an interactive map.

Link (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Applications/index.php)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.
It is an awful building from the standpoint of the tenants. Now one can argue that is because the owner has failed to maintain it, but a building is not much different from a car - at some point the cost of repairs no longer makes sense and you are better off getting a new one.

That's probably true, but due to the historical, cultural, architectural, etc. factors at play (and the fact that buildings like these were built to last indefinitely, if well maintained) that point is takes a lot longer to reach with a building than with a car.

Comparison to a car is actually a good analogy. Once they are past their useful life and relatively young, both cars and buildings often get junked or torn down, replaced by something new and shiny. Often the decision to do so is mainly financial, though often also based on emotional (i.e. a style of the recent past that is now considered unfashionable) and health/safety reasons as well.

However, there are always examples that for some reason have lasted past their useful life in salvageable condition, and past the point of being "unfashionable" in the public's eye (i.e. past the "best before" date of the marketing people who seem to have to power to make us spend money on new stuff whether we need it or not). At this point, once they become less common, even the general public recognize the intrinsic value of these items from the past. Then this intrinsic value can trump purely financial interests.

Antique cars are restored all the time and highly valued, so are heritage buildings. Often they are upgraded to modern healthy/safety standards as well.

In this case, I can see no reason why at least the facade of this interesting and historic structure can't be used in a new project. While Keith's basic business plan takes into account the cost of renovation as a negative, it excludes the value of the heritage structure to the finished product. Not to mention the value that isn't easily defined by a dollar sign.

This building was built of quality materials back in the day, with custom features illustrating local history, such as the sailing ships visible in the photo in this thread. This architectural and construction style is of high quality and is just not done anymore, so therefore I think that many would consider this building worthy of preservation and repurposing.

I agree that, as the future of this building is looking at the moment, this is a project that has a lot of negatives and few positives. Hopefully the developer reconsiders and decides to spend a little more to make this a quality project with a higher payout on the other side. :2cents:

[Jonovision]

The new building at the Oval is coming along. Not sure how I feel about it though. It doesn't look like it will have enough space for everything that it was supposed to house.

https://41.media.tumblr.com/89937a18b2c971ed47e7570dea5f1bd7/tumblr_ntj656yA941sk8kjeo4_1280.jpg

https://41.media.tumblr.com/5a80324cd92ec5ff71d3bfff68bdd1df/tumblr_ntj656yA941sk8kjeo3_1280.jpg

https://36.media.tumblr.com/30a8217aa8bc573b9b605988b2687d4c/tumblr_ntj656yA941sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

https://40.media.tumblr.com/c53865285abd1a4b6c1586420cbc4ba8/tumblr_ntj65mpcvR1sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

https://41.media.tumblr.com/b4ddd5f377a8813e03962318d762b84b/tumblr_ntj65mpcvR1sk8kjeo2_1280.jpg

https://41.media.tumblr.com/a2c1a9db8e1af5da4ff0b3af27c984e4/tumblr_ntj65mpcvR1sk8kjeo3_1280.jpg

https://41.media.tumblr.com/9c5755e386c595323f662f0d7aa49c3f/tumblr_ntj65mpcvR1sk8kjeo6_1280.jpg

[Keith P.]

What an utter waste that entire scar on the landscape has proven to be.

[hokus83]

I really think this would have been better off on the hill on over side of the oval over looking it

[beyeas]

What an utter waste that entire scar on the landscape has proven to be.

Indeed. And how dare a record number of people who used it this year not agree with you? Shameful that there are actually things on the common that people flock to use. Damn those thousands of taxpayers (communists, all of them!) who use it every day during the winter to get physical activity when that land should have been left to its previous good use of sitting as a pile of snow.

[Keith P.]

That's the problem - it is only used for a handful of days. In the winter it is often too sunny/rainy/snowy/mild for the icemaking machinery to work. And the rest of the year it is largely abandoned. All this for only $25 million taxpayer dollars. Yes, a fine investment indeed for the Agricola St hipsters to enjoy a dozen days of recreation annually.

[counterfactual]

What an utter waste that entire scar on the landscape has proven to be.

Keith, come on -- you're sounding like Friends of the Commons, who are the same people as Save The View who are the same people as the HTNS.

[eastcoastal]

The new building at the Oval is coming along. Not sure how I feel about it though. It doesn't look like it will have enough space for everything that it was supposed to house.

Remind me what it's supposed to house? I remember the Zamboni and some admin space... but can't remember much else.

[Jonovision]

Remind me what it's supposed to house? I remember the Zamboni and some admin space... but can't remember much else.

I went to one of the design charettes a few years ago to where the object was to plan the building and its design/feel/space. I then went to a follow up meeting where the concept for the building was presented back. It was all about an Apres Ski or chalet type feel. Where people could come and sit around a fire, grab a hot chocolate and enjoy the warm cozy atmosphere. This was on top of housing the zambonie, skate rentals and food vendors.

I don't see the space that has been created as being big enough to do this which I think is a real missed opportunity.

[beyeas]

Yes, a fine investment indeed for the Agricola St hipsters to enjoy a dozen days of recreation annually.

I think you need to actually go sometime on a winter day and see who and how many actually do use this facility. It is clear for your comment that it is only used by Agricola hipsters for a dozen days a year, that you have no factual idea. If you had actually gone, you would see hundreds to thousands of people a day from all walks of life, areas of the city, and age demographics. In fact, one of the biggest users are school kids, who far far outnumber the "hipsters". Perhaps you have also noticed that winter lasts longer than a dozen days?

How many, who uses it, and for how many days a year is an empirical question. Perhaps you should go and see.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Actually, you don't even need to go there, just take a look at the webcam, which I have done often in the winter and to me, it seems to be used quite a bit.

http://www.novascotiawebcams.com/en/webcams/halifax-commons-and-emera-oval/

I don't know what the actual number of days per year are for its use, but I will say that regardless of the data, it leaves a great impression of the city to those who use it. It promotes healthy activity, which is sorely disappearing from our lazy, phone-oriented society. Plus, it promotes public use of public lands much in the spirit of the original purpose of the commons. I can't see this as a bad thing.

Sure, it costs money, but so do most things that are worthwhile. Honestly, while I understand that budgets need to be watched, I don't get the penny-pinching attitude that still persists here. It seems as though anytime money is spent on something that benefits the public, I hear that "we can't afford to do it". Actually, I believe that we can't afford to not do it. :2cents:

[Keith P.]

Sure, it costs money, but so do most things that are worthwhile. Honestly, while I understand that budgets need to be watched, I don't get the penny-pinching attitude that still persists here. It seems as though anytime money is spent on something that benefits the public, I hear that "we can't afford to do it". Actually, I believe that we can't afford to not do it.

There are lots of things we could and should so. This is not one of those things. For years people said that a public skating rink should be built somewhere, perhaps Grand Parade or elsewhere, like the rink at Rockefeller Center in NYC. No, said the authorities, we can't do that.

But the feds throw some tax money at us to build an otherwise useless speed skating oval for the Canada Games and we do it, cheaply because, after all, it is only temporary. But then Dawn Sloane throws a tantrum after it is over and we end up spending $15 MILLION to rebuild it and now another $10 MILLION for a chalet and garage. All we wanted was an outdoor skating rink, a couple of million tops. We could have built 20 of them all over HRM for what this thing cost. THAT is my issue.

[Hali87]

We're getting what we paid for though. It's a great facility, well-used, has some non-lighthousey public art, and basically introduced the sport of long-track speed skating to the region as a viable option. I honestly don't remember what this part of the Commons was even used for before the Oval was built. Muggings?

[Ziobrop]

There are lots of things we could and should so. This is not one of those things. For years people said that a public skating rink should be built somewhere, perhaps Grand Parade or elsewhere, like the rink at Rockefeller Center in NYC. No, said the authorities, we can't do that.

But the feds throw some tax money at us to build an otherwise useless speed skating oval for the Canada Games and we do it, cheaply because, after all, it is only temporary. But then Dawn Sloane throws a tantrum after it is over and we end up spending $15 MILLION to rebuild it and now another $10 MILLION for a chalet and garage. All we wanted was an outdoor skating rink, a couple of million tops. We could have built 20 of them all over HRM for what this thing cost. THAT is my issue.

it was 4.2 million to make it permanent, and the pavilion is 2.5 million. that's 18million less then you quoted. Its ok to say things are too expensive, but at least get your costs right.

[OldDartmouthMark]

There are lots of things we could and should so. This is not one of those things. For years people said that a public skating rink should be built somewhere, perhaps Grand Parade or elsewhere, like the rink at Rockefeller Center in NYC. No, said the authorities, we can't do that.

But the feds throw some tax money at us to build an otherwise useless speed skating oval for the Canada Games and we do it, cheaply because, after all, it is only temporary. But then Dawn Sloane throws a tantrum after it is over and we end up spending $15 MILLION to rebuild it and now another $10 MILLION for a chalet and garage. All we wanted was an outdoor skating rink, a couple of million tops. We could have built 20 of them all over HRM for what this thing cost. THAT is my issue.

We can use 20/20 hindsight all we want, perhaps suggesting that it should have been planned as a permanent facility from the start. However, I'm not sure that the people of Halifax realized how popular this would be until it was in place, not to mention the benefits to the sport of speed skating (which a Grand Parade rink would not be able to facilitate). I'm thinking, actually, that the quick actions of council to keep this facility after the games were finished should be applauded rather than derided.

As mentioned by Ziobrop, it appears that the actual costs are far less than you are reporting, so I don't see any detriments at this point. Plus, doesn't corporate sponsorship take care of some of the operating costs for this facility?

Also, as mentioned by Hali87, this land wasn't being used beforehand, so what is the problem?

[curnhalio]

It was two ballfields before the Oval was built. One of which had an actual pitchers mound. So yeah, a pile of snow or a good place to get swarmed sounds about right. Now there are public eyes on this parcel of land where there previously were not.

[musicman]

[QUOTE=OldDartmouthMark;7141525] I'm thinking, actually, that the quick actions of council to keep this facility after the games were finished should be applauded rather than derided.

Considering urban chickens were high on the agenda around this time and oh yeah let's not forget the cat thing, I would have to agree with OldDartmouthMark on this one....

[Keith P.]

it was 4.2 million to make it permanent, and the pavilion is 2.5 million. that's 18million less then you quoted. Its ok to say things are too expensive, but at least get your costs right.

The original estimate to make it permanent was $5.7 million and it went up from there once plazas were constructed,, utilities and washrooms were brought in, etc. I stand by my figures. BTW everyone's favorite gadfly John Wesley Chisholm did some work that estimated costs for this thing at $15 per user based upon the numbers who actually show up on the handful of days that it is open and the annual operating costs which are substantial, not including the armies of HRM rec staff with custom logoed clothing supplied by you and me.

I seriously doubt the pavilion will come in at anything close to $2.5 million.

[curnhalio]

The original estimate to make it permanent was $5.7 million and it went up from there once plazas were constructed,, utilities and washrooms were brought in, etc. I stand by my figures. BTW everyone's favorite gadfly John Wesley Chisholm did some work that estimated costs for this thing at $15 per user based upon the numbers who actually show up on the handful of days that it is open and the annual operating costs which are substantial, not including the armies of HRM rec staff with custom logoed clothing supplied by you and me.

I seriously doubt the pavilion will come in at anything close to $2.5 million.

So, are you suggesting that a $15 fee be charged to use the facility? If you think it's poorly attended now, wait until after people have to pay to get in.

[beyeas]

If you think it's poorly attended now, wait until after people have to pay to get in.

To be clear, "poorly" attended was 135,000 people last season.

[JET]

To be clear, "poorly" attended was 135,000 people last season.

and that's probably only during the ice skating season; there is apparently quite a bit of summer time use. https://www.halifax.ca/skatehrm/:tup:

[Keith P.]

and that's probably only during the ice skating season; there is apparently quite a bit of summer time use. https://www.halifax.ca/skatehrm/ :tup:

Yes, it's jammed.

https://www.halifax.ca/SkateHRM/webcamera/nojava.php

[JET]

Yes, it's jammed.

https://www.halifax.ca/SkateHRM/webcamera/nojava.php

Keith, you checked the cam when there was scheduled activities, right?

[curnhalio]

To be clear, "poorly" attended was 135,000 people last season.

Yeah, that makes sense. Every time I've gone past there, day or night in the winter the place is packed. I wonder if that's 135,000 different individuals, or if it's the same 10-12,000 repeat visitors. Do they track that?

[beyeas]

Yeah, that makes sense. Every time I've gone past there, day or night in the winter the place is packed. I wonder if that's 135,000 different individuals, or if it's the same 10-12,000 repeat visitors. Do they track that?

I believe that that number is derived from total attendance, which would include people who used it more than once.

The school program is quite active as well, and they often have entire classes of kids go there as an outdoor activity.

[Keith P.]

Every time I go by there the place is deserted.

[JET]

Every time I go by there the place is deserted.

Public skates were scheduled (and seem to be daily) for 10:30 and 5:30 today and tomorrow, but this mornings was cancelled, no doubt due to the rain. They do provide roller skates. We'll have to keep checking the webcam for activity. Keith's no doubt checking regularly for verification. :yes:

[Keith P.]

We'll have to keep checking the webcam for activity. Keith's no doubt checking regularly for verification.

It is a fast and easy way to verify what I believe are vastly inflated claims. It was again deserted today.

[JET]

It is a fast and easy way to verify what I believe are vastly inflated claims. It was again deserted today.

Given that there was only one scheduled activity today, and that it was cancelled because of the rain, it is quite probable that it was quite deserted.

[Dmajackson]

I would like to point out that even IF the Oval is not heavily used in the summer-time it provides a sense of balance to the Commons. Most of the area is barren through the winter but this one corner is consistently packed with people and activities. In the summer the ballfields and skate park are well-used making up for this quieter corner.

Saying the Oval is a waste of money because it is not busy a few months or the year is like saying the waterfront boardwalk should be removed because nobody uses it when it's -20C outside but they will strap on a pair of skates at the Oval!

[teddifax]

I wish we had a LIKE button!

[Ziobrop]

Saying the Oval is a waste of money because it is not busy a few months or the year is like saying the waterfront boardwalk should be removed because nobody uses it when it's -20C outside but they will strap on a pair of skates at the Oval!

i use the boardwalk in -20.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sUWRqcqXl8o/S0ESBKAGYVI/AAAAAAAAAac/ZKFKbmLnNMM/s1600/IMG_6916.JPG

I also froze my A$$ off waiting to get this shot from the MacDonald.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rk8VtjI6DIo/Uoy_rZkr2mI/AAAAAAAAHNk/oMyoCi56B_M/s400/8390535003_521bb1d81f_b.jpg