General Updates and News

[hokus83]

Looks like Queen's Landing is back. Designs have been approved by the WDCL and are going to go through the HbD process in September. The new project will be designed by MacKay Lyons-Sweetapple architects and will have hotel, residential, and commercial components. The value is $60M.

Great we need this and Cunard Block and something on Salter block to all get going.

[beyeas]

This one's just from the rumour mill (i.e. the website that shall not be named). Hopefully some renderings will be available soon. Projects designed by this architect are usually pretty interesting.

I would not be surprised if this rumour were true, given that this is an election year and this would seem to be a cause that the Conservatives would feel comfort with. Interesting to see if there is an announcement before the window closes for making political pre-election funding announcements.

[someone123]

A new AGNS building is rumoured to be a potential component, but either way it will be decoupled from the private mixed-used component.

I hope they come up with something that is a bit broken up in terms of massing and style so that it relates well to the older wharf buildings nearby like NS Crystal. This could be a nice fit to the MLS architectural style; they do a lot of modernist coastal buildings that borrow elements of the regional vernacular. I am a pretty big fan. I like architecture that has local flavour but isn't too literalist (i.e. suited to the local culture and climate, not "it looks like a giant lobster trap!").

[hokus83]

skeptical a new AGNS could fit in that space with anything else

[counterfactual]

I would not be surprised if this rumour were true, given that this is an election year and this would seem to be a cause that the Conservatives would feel comfort with. Interesting to see if there is an announcement before the window closes for making political pre-election funding announcements.

What would the Conservative government have to do with this? Aren't we talking about the private component?

Or are we talking about the "Battle of the Atlantic Place" thing, for the HMCS Sackville?

[counterfactual]

What would the Conservative government have to do with this? Aren't we talking about the private component?

Or are we talking about the "Battle of the Atlantic Place" thing, for the HMCS Sackville?

My own follow up:

N.L.'s role in the Battle of the Atlantic should be remembered, John Crosbie says
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/n-l-s-role-in-the-battle-of-the-atlantic-should-be-remembered-john-crosbie-says-1.3104691

Hmmm. Former bigwig federal Conservative involved. Maybe there's an announcement on this coming. It was pegged for a 2017 opening for Canada's 150, so they better start moving on it.

Possible announcement on this coming?

I still wish Parks Canada would get off their ass and get George's Island opened up. It will be an awesome attraction when they do; they just need to figure out a walk to get tourists there. Maybe a walking bridge or dedicated mini-ferry in summer...

[OldDartmouthMark]

I still wish Parks Canada would get off their ass and get George's Island opened up. It will be an awesome attraction when they do; they just need to figure out a walk to get tourists there. Maybe a walking bridge or dedicated mini-ferry in summer...

Amen to that! :yes:

[hokus83]

My own follow up:

N.L.'s role in the Battle of the Atlantic should be remembered, John Crosbie says
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/n-l-s-role-in-the-battle-of-the-atlantic-should-be-remembered-john-crosbie-says-1.3104691

Hmmm. Former bigwig federal Conservative involved. Maybe there's an announcement on this coming. It was pegged for a 2017 opening for Canada's 150, so they better start moving on it.

Possible announcement on this coming?

I still wish Parks Canada would get off their ass and get George's Island opened up. It will be an awesome attraction when they do; they just need to figure out a walk to get tourists there. Maybe a walking bridge or dedicated mini-ferry in summer...

No way they can do this by 2017, it would take them 3 years just to build the thing and I can't see them starting this year on it. Maybe they can start building it by 2017

[hokus83]

It would take them over a year just to the land infill in this spot and get started on the foundation http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_image/articles/battle.jpg

[someone123]

In this context Saint John has both benefitted and suffered from having gone through long dry spells with a very poor economy. The benefit is that while other cities in the 60s and 70s were knocking down old buildings to build towers, SJ was in the doldrums and largely did not do so. Add in the fact that much of this section of downtown (Prince William, Canterbury, Germain, etc) was burned to the ground in the great fire and then uniformly rebuilt as brick/stone, rather than the wood structures that were there before, and you have a large stock of well built edwardian structures that are all self-consistent. There really are some spectacular buildings in that section of downtown (I went to SJHS, which is right in the middle of all that). The south end of the city is mostly in terrible shape (falling down clapboard wood structures that have been poorly maintained), but this section of the downtown core really does have a large self-consistent set of buildings that deserved to be saved/renovated. Last I visited I was actually impressed by the new development that has taken place, the loft conversion done to some of the old buildings, and the renovations that have taken place in some other buildings (e.g. along King Street). It has been a while since I felt positive about SJ, but I have to say they look like they have turned a corner.

Saint John must have one of the biggest disconnects in Canada in terms of the quality of its heritage and neighbourhoods and how well-known it is. Hamilton is a bit like this too. I don't know a lot about these cities, but I suspect that if they play their cards right they can capitalize hugely on this. Urban living is becoming more and more attractive, young people are willing to move around, and character neighbourhoods are in high demand. There's a limited stock in the bigger cities and it's becoming incredibly expensive.

When it comes to the Saint John/Halifax comparisons, I feel like they've become two different animals. They're not really in direct competition anymore and they're no longer built on the same scale. When it comes to a discussion like this it makes a big difference because the level of development pressure in downtown Halifax, as one example, is in a completely different ballpark from Uptown SJ. There's also a lot of stuff going on in Halifax that wouldn't exist in its present form without the modern buildings. It's hard to find cities in North America that have had a lot of economic vibrancy and have really well-preserved older neighbourhoods. I think a lot of people take the modern development for granted.

I also think people sell the heritage buildings in Halifax a little short sometimes. If you take a step back, there are many buildings that don't have analogues in the rest of the region. As far as I know, there's no Dominion Public Building, Bank of NS, Dingle, or Citadel anywhere else. I'm not even sure there's another Nova Scotian Hotel (Charlottetown has a mini one) or maybe even Dennis Building (Saint John might have a couple of those). It's mostly little stuff outside of Halifax. Actually it's mostly newer too; you don't find St. Paul's type buildings outside of NS either for the most part.

[Ziobrop]

It would take them over a year just to the land infill in this spot and get started on the foundation http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_image/articles/battle.jpg

I don't believe this project requires infilling. The building will be built in contact with the ocean

[pblaauw]

I still wish Parks Canada would get off their ass and get George's Island opened up. It will be an awesome attraction when they do; they just need to figure out a walk to get tourists there. Maybe a walking bridge or dedicated mini-ferry in summer...

A walking bridge, across a major shipping lane? Not going to happen. I know ships could go around Georges, but a bridge seems very unlikely.

...And it would prohibit cruise ships from doing that fancy loop-around-Georges-and-show-off-for-the-locals thing. :cool:

[hokus83]

A walking bridge, across a major shipping lane? Not going to happen. I know ships could go aroundcoupleges, but a bridge seems very unlikely.

...And it would prohibit cruise ships from doing that fancy loop-around-Georges-and-show-off-for-the-locals thing. :cool:

there are old underground tunnels that go from the island to the city. Put an entrrance on lower water street, spend a couple million making sure the tunnle is up to safty standards and you have a instant huge tourist attraction. Would probaly be just a 10 minute walk under ground.

[counterfactual]

[QUOTE=pblaauw;7060106]

there are old underground tunnels that go from the island to the city. Put an entrrance on lower water street, spend a couple million making sure the tunnle is up to safty standards and you have a instant huge tourist attraction. Would probaly be just a 10 minute walk under ground.

Is that true? I've heard rumors, but I don't know if any actual such tunnel has ever been found.

[Keith P.]

there are old underground tunnels that go from the island to the city. Put an entrrance on lower water street, spend a couple million making sure the tunnle is up to safty standards and you have a instant huge tourist attraction. Would probaly be just a 10 minute walk under ground.

Not gonna happen.

[beyeas]

What would the Conservative government have to do with this? Aren't we talking about the private component?

Or are we talking about the "Battle of the Atlantic Place" thing, for the HMCS Sackville?

I just assume that it is all part and parcel, given that one would bet that the private part is financially structured based on leveraging public funding for the Battle of the Atlantic portion of the overall development. Maybe I am wrong though... :shrug:

[kwajo]

[QUOTE=hokus83;7060178]

Is that true? I've heard rumors, but I don't know if any actual such tunnel has ever been found.
No way that would only cost a few million. I've been in similar vintage British military tunnels here in Saint John and they are so narrow and short that the tunnel would probably have to be tripled in diameter to meet contemporary standards, which would be impossible given their construction. You'd essentially have to build a whole new tunnel, which would not be cheap. A similar pedestrian tunnel to the Toronto Island Airport is currently being completed at a cost of ~$83 million and it is less than 200 m long (by comparison Georges Island is between 400-500 m from shore).

[ILoveHalifax]

Any new tunnel should be built of glass so the tourists can see the fish, etc

[someone123]

Is that true? I've heard rumors, but I don't know if any actual such tunnel has ever been found.

I think it is just a rumour. It would have been an incredibly difficult and expensive tunnel to build in the 1700's or 1800's. Every so often there is a story about a supposed bricked off George's Island tunnel entrance that is located downtown but they usually lead to sewers, etc.

There are tunnels around the Citadel, but I don't think they make it out to the island.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Any new tunnel should be built of glass so the tourists can see the fish, etc

It's the "etc." that would concern me.... :whistle:

[eastcoastal]

What would the Conservative government have to do with this? Aren't we talking about the private component?

Or are we talking about the "Battle of the Atlantic Place" thing, for the HMCS Sackville?

I think Battle of the Atlantic Place (near the foot of Sackville St) is different than Queen's Landing (near the foot of George St).

[beyeas]

I think Battle of the Atlantic Place (near the foot of Sackville St) is different than Queen's Landing (near the foot of George St).

They are linked but not linked.

The original proposal was all one:
http://armourgroup.com/building_detail.php?building_id=10

However since then they have been de-linked in that I think approval for the public and private parts were split in two. It is clear that the original intention for Queen's Landing, as per the above link, was for this to be all part of one big project, that had both a public side and a private side. However, that has changed.

Originally I would have imagined that they would want to only move forward on the private part once they could get some leveraging from the public side (mitigate some of the private costs through jointly developing both sites simultaneously), but it seems that they finally got tired of waiting for the public part to get funded and have just decided to plow ahead!

[fenwick16]

It's the "etc." that would concern me.... :whistle:

Good point :)

I would love to see a tunnel to Georges Island though, as unlikely as it might be.

[pblaauw]

[QUOTE=hokus83;7060178]

Is that true? I've heard rumors, but I don't know if any actual such tunnel has ever been found.

I believe there's a tunnel that goes from the island to The Dennis Building. "A couple million" is unrealistic, I think. The feds have been talking about opening up the island to the public since I was a kid. I'm fairly certain there's a sign on the wharf that says "no trespassing", but people go there all the time with boats.

And then there's the concerts...using city ferries.:shrug:

[musicman]

The ferry that was used would normally be parked for the weekend and not in use... I also know what it costs the promoters to charter said ferry, metro transit is doing quite well on that rental.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'd love for them to do something to Georges Island to make it accessible to the general public (and not only to those who have boats). It's a diamond in the rough just sitting there...

[hokus83]

Put a car tunnel under the harbor from south street to the 111 and have a pedestrian and bicycle walkway incorporated with it with access points from them onto the island

[Keith P.]

Put a car tunnel under the harbor from south street to the 111 and have a pedestrian and bicycle walkway incorporated with it with access points from them onto the island

Well, that is pretty much the 3rd harbour crossing that the HDBC proposed a few years ago - one of the options was a tunnel. It makes perfect sense, so naturally our Mayor, Council, and a good part of the population shouted it down.

[Jstaleness]

Having never been to another city that tunneled a harbor,what kind of infrastructure would be needed at the South Street entrance? Would it disrupt the above ground much at South/Hollis Westin property? I could care less about the Dartmouth side as its pretty much industrial anyway so there is nothing to lose.

[hokus83]

Having never been to another city that tunneled a harbor,what kind of infrastructure would be needed at the South Street entrance? Would it disrupt the above ground much at South/Hollis Westin property? I could care less about the Dartmouth side as its pretty much industrial anyway so there is nothing to lose.

put the entrance by the sea port market

[counterfactual]

I'd love for them to do something to Georges Island to make it accessible to the general public (and not only to those who have boats). It's a diamond in the rough just sitting there...

I completely agree. I think it would become more of an attraction than Citadel Hill; I mean it's like that, but out on the water, with tunnels and an amazing view of Halifax.

We have this incredible asset, that has so much richness and history and could make so much money for the city, and it's sitting there, with weeds growing up, without any City leaders or Federal leadership to open it up for The People.

How about a moveable walking bridge of some sort?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moveable_bridge

The bridge would be down maybe a few times a day, and other times, fully open for ships to get through. No disruption...

[Keith P.]

Having never been to another city that tunneled a harbor,what kind of infrastructure would be needed at the South Street entrance? Would it disrupt the above ground much at South/Hollis Westin property? I could care less about the Dartmouth side as its pretty much industrial anyway so there is nothing to lose.


It really is almost nonexistent in terms of disruption. Far less intrusive than a bridge in fact.

The one I am most familiar with is the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel, near Norfolk Va. It was originally built in the late 1950s as part of the Interstate Highway system and a tunnel portion was deemed necessary due to the strategic importance of keeping a channel open for the large US Navy base there.

Here is the approach:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll229/keith_p/Hampton_Roads_Bridge-Tunnel_entering_westbound_tunnel_zpsttrbw3qm.jpg

A bit closer to the entry:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll229/keith_p/Hampton_Roads_Bridge-Tunnel_entering_westbound_tunnel_2_zpsfqqccvja.jpg

Inside the tunnel:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll229/keith_p/Hampton_Roads_Bridge_Tunnel_zpsystnyavo.jpg

Coming out:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll229/keith_p/Hampton_Roads_Bridge-Tunnel_exiting_westbound_tunnel_zpslslv6nxn.jpg


I have driven it numerous times and even though I am a bit of a claustrophobic I didn't mind it at all. Now, it may be different if traffic is heavy and you are stopped in there, but that never happened to me. I forget the speed limit but it is fairly moderate.

[Jstaleness]

This is Baltimore's. This would be a fine approach from the Dartmouth side but still seems difficult to implement on the current south end of Halifax unless done past pier 21.


http://www.gazette.net/storyimage/PN/20110610/NEWS/706109750/AR/0/AR-706109750.jpg

photo:www.gazette.com

[Jstaleness]

.

[hokus83]

This is Baltimore's. This would be a fine approach from the Dartmouth side but still seems difficult to implement on the current south end of Halifax unless done past pier 21.


http://www.gazette.net/storyimage/PN/20110610/NEWS/706109750/AR/0/AR-706109750.jpg

photo:www.gazette.com


Could fit right at the end of Terminal Rd beside NS power building

[MeEtc]

Looking at an overhead map, I think it would be better and less disruptive to dig under the docks and come back out somewhere near the end of McLean St and head up the rail cut. Make connections to Young Ave and Robie St, and leave a ROW to allow for a potential NW Arm crossing.

[Ziobrop]

Tunnel basically needs a ventilation Building of Some sort.
New Yorks are particaullrly beautiful for such utilitarian structures.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Lincoln_Tunnel_vent_tower_jeh.JPG/1024px-Lincoln_Tunnel_vent_tower_jeh.JPG

http://media.nj.com/jersey-journal/photo/2012/04/10825485-standard.jpg

[Ziobrop]

Recent posts have discussed Tunnels, and New York's Penn Station.
I found this:
https://40.media.tumblr.com/40fb54b7602f56ea603f53fcfcb7e4b0/tumblr_nq0l709VHy1tjuslyo1_1280.png

[Dmajackson]

https://41.media.tumblr.com/03032b336b93bccfcf747c28f8933275/tumblr_nq1yeyUbWa1tvjdq8o1_1280.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (http://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

[fenwick16]

https://41.media.tumblr.com/03032b336b93bccfcf747c28f8933275/tumblr_nq1yeyUbWa1tvjdq8o1_1280.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson)


The expansion of the former-Hudson's Bay building looks quite impressive.

[Dmajackson]

When I'm out biking and walking around town I tend to find myself thinking about small changes that could do wonders for the urban fabric. This has led me to wonder what others would do if they were charged with implementing small changes in the urban core that have a relatively small price tag. For example I would;

1) Install "Pedestrian Scrambles" at SGR & Queen and SGR & Dresden, and conduct studies on their need at Agricola & North, SGR & Barrington, Bell & Summer, and Alderney & Queen.

2) Underground utilities on Agricola Street between Cunard and North to allow for street trees, snow clearing and wheelchair access. Also bury power lines around the Commons and along the narrower portions of major streets (ie Almon near Isleville). And I would fund a program for undergrounding of utilities as part of future developments along arterial and major collectors in the urban core.

3) Install bike boxes at all signalized intersections where two bike lanes currently or will intersect in the future (ie Windsor & Almon, South Park & Morris).

4) Make a one-time large payment to the Urban Forest Master Plan to fill in all gaps where street trees are needed along minor streets on the Peninsula.

[Keith P.]

You really think we need MORE trees on the peninsula? Seems to me we are quite overrun with them in most areas.

That stretch of Agricola, despite recent improvements, is still a bit of an eyesore. I think it is mostly because the buildings are so close to the street. Just not much room for amenities.

[Drybrain]

When I'm out biking and walking around town I tend to find myself thinking about small changes that could do wonders for the urban fabric. This has led me to wonder what others would do if they were charged with implementing small changes in the urban core that have a relatively small price tag. For example I would;

1) Install "Pedestrian Scrambles" at SGR & Queen and SGR & Dresden, and conduct studies on their need at Agricola & North, SGR & Barrington, Bell & Summer, and Alderney & Queen.



I agree at SGR and Queen, but I'm not sure the others would have enough pedestrian traffic, especially the latter three. (Toronto just took OUT its scramble at Bay and Bloor, which definitely has a higher pedestrian volume than all of these.)

Wholly agree on bike boxes and trees. Sure, we have lots of trees, but more is better, and there are definitely some bare patches.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Bury all lines on the peninsula.

[counterfactual]

Any notice how awesome the small, cheap, bistro chairs and tables around the waterfront, has totally transformed it.

Such a great idea, and really turns dead zones into public spaces. We should put these in the new plaza at the Library too.

Check it out:

https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/605403837617180672

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGNaKrzUkAAFVmN.jpg

https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/610600828471107584

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHjZSRaW8AAcRf1.jpg


Reminds me of similar initiatives that have seen huge success in New York City at Bryant Park and in Times Square:

http://www.asla.org/sustainablelandscapes/images/bryantpark/bryantpark_5.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/30/article-1371383-0B65BB5500000578-440_468x286.jpg

Put these all over downtown. Grand Parade. Library Plaza. Waterfront.

[beyeas]

Any notice how awesome the small, cheap, bistro chairs and tables around the waterfront, has totally transformed it.

Such a great idea, and really turns dead zones into public spaces. We should put these in the new plaza at the Library too.


Yeah I was down at the waterfront with my son the other night, and all the tables were full, a guy was playing the piano, and overall it just had a great vibe to it. A cost-effective way to really change the dynamics of a public space without a massive investment in time or funding.

[counterfactual]

Yeah I was down at the waterfront with my son the other night, and all the tables were full, a guy was playing the piano, and overall it just had a great vibe to it. A cost-effective way to really change the dynamics of a public space without a massive investment in time or funding.

Absolutely! So true! Seems like a no brainer to me!

[counterfactual]

When I'm out biking and walking around town I tend to find myself thinking about small changes that could do wonders for the urban fabric. This has led me to wonder what others would do if they were charged with implementing small changes in the urban core that have a relatively small price tag. For example I would;

1) Install "Pedestrian Scrambles" at SGR & Queen and SGR & Dresden, and conduct studies on their need at Agricola & North, SGR & Barrington, Bell & Summer, and Alderney & Queen.

2) Underground utilities on Agricola Street between Cunard and North to allow for street trees, snow clearing and wheelchair access. Also bury power lines around the Commons and along the narrower portions of major streets (ie Almon near Isleville). And I would fund a program for undergrounding of utilities as part of future developments along arterial and major collectors in the urban core.

3) Install bike boxes at all signalized intersections where two bike lanes currently or will intersect in the future (ie Windsor & Almon, South Park & Morris).

4) Make a one-time large payment to the Urban Forest Master Plan to fill in all gaps where street trees are needed along minor streets on the Peninsula.

All excellent suggestions!

[Keith P.]

What are "bike Boxes" and why do we need them? There are very few bikes using the existing bike lanes.

[Hali87]

^You keep saying this, but there are more and more bicycles locked to bike racks around town every day.

Bike boxes are an extra painted element at intersections that facilitate turns through the intersection. I forget exactly how they work but basically it reserves a small space for bicycles at the head of the queue (usually leaving multiple lanes for cars as well) and give a bit more clarity as to when and where the bicycles will pass through the intersection, making things a little easier for everyone.

[Drybrain]

^You keep saying this, but there are more and more bicycles locked to bike racks around town every day.

Bike boxes are an extra painted element at intersections that facilitate turns through the intersection. I forget exactly how they work but basically it reserves a small space for bicycles at the head of the queue (usually leaving multiple lanes for cars as well) and give a bit more clarity as to when and where the bicycles will pass through the intersection, making things a little easier for everyone.

The best way to increase bike usage is to build bike infrastructure. It makes it feel viable for a lot of people who may (understandably) feel timid about getting on city streets on a bike otherwise.

The city conducts annual bike counts, but I don't know if they're comparable (i.e., if they're counting in the same locations and on the same days every year).

Anecdotally I feel like there are more bikes out this summer than last, even, but I wouldn't count on my vague intuition as useful data for policymaking.

[Dmajackson]

I agree at SGR and Queen, but I'm not sure the others would have enough pedestrian traffic, especially the latter three. (Toronto just took OUT its scramble at Bay and Bloor, which definitely has a higher pedestrian volume than all of these.)

Wholly agree on bike boxes and trees. Sure, we have lots of trees, but more is better, and there are definitely some bare patches.

SGR & Queen is the no-brainer of the bunch that's for sure.

SGR & Dresden is small intersection with a lot of cross pedestrian movement due to the retail nature of the area. Simply allowing a diagonal crossing every couple of minutes would decongest the sidewalks.

SGR & Barrington is a tight intersection with a lot of turning bus traffic which is severely impacted by pedestrian movements. If all of the pedestrians were accommodated at once it would allow buses to turn quickly without blocking both lanes for extended periods.

The others are more questionable but I think they have merit due to unique circumstances;

Summer & Bell has decently high pedestrian usage and the unusual convergence of paths at the intersection so a scramble could allow for better bike movement onto and off of the paths and bike lanes.

Agricola & North also has decently high pedestrian usage and very narrow waiting areas.

Alderney & Queen is the only spot in Dartmouth that could come close to being reasonable and it is mainly due to being in the middle of a transit terminal. Being a T-intersection likely makes it useless though.

What are "bike Boxes" and why do we need them? There are very few bikes using the existing bike lanes.

Calgary has some;

Google Streetview - 8 AVE SW & 7 ST SW (https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.045994,-114.078709,3a,75y,38.61h,65.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8kDLw42s6kRD7nQZi5LFmg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

This is a different type than I propose since there are no separated two-way bike lanes in Halifax yet.

Ottawa also has some (http://ottawa.ca/en/residents/transportation-and-parking/cycling/bike-box)

Bike boxes are coloured areas at intersections that allow a bicycle to "queue jump" ahead of traffic and are designed to facilitate left-turns.

Imagine the intersection of Almon and Windsor if both had bike lanes installed. A bike box on each approach would clearly state that both streets are bicycle priority and it would allow cyclists to make left-turns safely therefore encouraging more people to use the routes.

The best way to increase bike usage is to build bike infrastructure. It makes it feel viable for a lot of people who may (understandably) feel timid about getting on city streets on a bike otherwise.

The city conducts annual bike counts, but I don't know if they're comparable (i.e., if they're counting in the same locations and on the same days every year).

Anecdotally I feel like there are more bikes out this summer than last, even, but I wouldn't count on my vague intuition as useful data for policymaking.

Halifax conducts three types of bicycle counts;

1) Baseline counts before a bicycle project is implemented and regular counts in the years following to determine the changes in usage.

2) Trail counts are done by automated counters installed on major AT trails across the region. For example COLTA has ~120'000 users per year (all AT forms included).

3) The Peninsula Screenline count is conducted manually once a year. The volunteers are placed at crossings of the Quinpool-Cogswell corridor and this determines how many people are biking north-south across the peninsula and along what streets. The Vernon/Quingate stoplight is currently ranked the highest IIRC.

[someone123]

SGR & Queen is the no-brainer of the bunch that's for sure.

Not sure if it's true but I recall hearing that the new lights at that intersection support a pedestrian scramble mode. In other words, the intersection would just need to be painted and the signals would need to be switched over.

It seems like pedestrian traffic is only one factor in whether or not a scramble makes sense. Two other factors are the relative importance of car traffic and the direction of pedestrian traffic. A scramble would make lots of sense on a moderately busy foot traffic street with little throughput of vehicular traffic. It wouldn't be as useful at an intersection with tons of foot traffic in one direction but not in the other.

[Keith P.]

SGR and Queen is already a scramble of sorts as most pedestrians simply ignore the signals and walk in front of moving traffic anyway.

[eastcoastal]

SGR and Queen is already a scramble of sorts as most pedestrians simply ignore the signals and walk in front of moving traffic anyway.

"most?"
I'm suspicious of that particular bit of quantitative information. I've seen plenty try, but even in that "plenty" I'd never say it was a large enough percentage to realistically be described as "most."

[Dmajackson]

The old-fashioned Ultramar at Gottingen & Almon has been demolished and the owners have a construction permit to construct a new commercial building of some kind. Given that the Ultramars in Sunnyside and Mill Cove also closed recently I imagine the land has been sold to a developer.

[hokus83]

The old-fashioned Ultramar at Gottingen & Almon has been demolished and the owners have a construction permit to construct a new commercial building of some kind. Given that the Ultramars in Sunnyside and Mill Cove also closed recently I imagine the land has been sold to a developer.

What going on with the empty lot on the other corner of Gottingen & Almon, I thought something was going to be built there.

[Ziobrop]

The old-fashioned Ultramar at Gottingen & Almon has been demolished and the owners have a construction permit to construct a new commercial building of some kind. Given that the Ultramars in Sunnyside and Mill Cove also closed recently I imagine the land has been sold to a developer.



No they are just building a modern ultramar there. That's what the person behind the counter told me just before they closed.

[Dmajackson]

No they are just building a modern ultramar there. That's what the person behind the counter told me just before they closed.

Damn it was wishful thinking I guess then!

A gas station is really a slap in the face for the urban renewal that's going on in the neighbourhood. This site would be best suited for a large scale retail space that does not deter from the walk-ability of the neighbourhood.

Do you know what is happening to the Sunnyside and Mill Cove locations?

[alps]

Nice to see this place, for the first time in my lifetime, fully renovated and with a real tenant (Oak and Oxford St.):

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l217/halps00/DSC_0187_zpsyciynony.jpg

[OldDartmouthMark]

Nice to see this place, for the first time in my lifetime, fully renovated and with a real tenant (Oak and Oxford St.):

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l217/halps00/DSC_0187_zpsyciynony.jpg

That came out really nice!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Damn it was wishful thinking I guess then!

A gas station is really a slap in the face for the urban renewal that's going on in the neighbourhood. This site would be best suited for a large scale retail space that does not deter from the walk-ability of the neighbourhood.

Do you know what is happening to the Sunnyside and Mill Cove locations?

I don't really see it as a slap in the face. They've been there for decades and are just renewing an old facility. You can't expect them to shut down the business just because the residents might like something different there. Besides, the locals need to buy gas somewhere, and the residents will benefit from the corner store as well.

I'm hoping that the ones on the Bedford Highway are similarly updated and not sold off to build yet another condo or whatever. There have been a lot of sketchy developments in that area, IMHO, especially what they are doing with the old Traveler's Motel - it's an eyesore.

Regarding large scale retail in the North end, one would think that if there's a market for it somebody will want to make money by building it. There are still lots of decrepit properties in the area that would be perfect for such a development. Such as this (https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Gottingen+St+%26+Almon+St,+Halifax,+NS+B3K/@44.6596,-63.596976,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1saB02VN0U-lPKZ9dF_Ffv6A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DaB02VN0U-lPKZ9dF_Ffv6A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D113.25917%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x4b5a217ac03fa78f:0x6055ee683535ccd8), if it were ever to come available.

But it has to make financial sense or it isn't going to happen. :2cents:

[Keith P.]

That came out really nice!

I am more interested in the town homes behind. I must drive by for a look-see.

[Keith P.]

Reading in the publication that must not be named that Obladee, the wine bar on the ground floor of the Tramway Bldg on Barrington, is at risk of eviction soon because of a rent dispute with the new landlord, Urban Spaces, who bought the building a few years ago from old Morris Strug. Apparently because of a dispute over some supplementary charges that U.S. claims are owed, they are refusing to renew Obladee's lease when it expires later this year.

That would be a real loss for the street. Obladee is a cool place.

[beyeas]

Reading in the publication that must not be named that Obladee, the wine bar on the ground floor of the Tramway Bldg on Barrington, is at risk of eviction soon because of a rent dispute with the new landlord, Urban Spaces, who bought the building a few years ago from old Morris Strug. Apparently because of a dispute over some supplementary charges that U.S. claims are owed, they are refusing to renew Obladee's lease when it expires later this year.

That would be a real loss for the street. Obladee is a cool place.

Indeed! That would be a huge loss for the street, and is one of those "different" places (rather than just typical chain stuff) that can actually attract people to the area.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Indeed! That would be a huge loss for the street, and is one of those "different" places (rather than just typical chain stuff) that can actually attract people to the area.

Agreed. I hope they can work it out.

[Dmajackson]

An initiation report for 6345 Coburg is going before Regional Council on Tuesday. No renderings are provided and the only specific mention in the report of the project is from W.M. Fares which states that the building will likely be 5 storeys high with a rear stepback to 3 storeys abutting the lower density neighbourhood in behind.

Case 19858 - Initiation Report for Regional Council (http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/150623ca1116.pdf)

[Drybrain]

Reading in the publication that must not be named that Obladee, the wine bar on the ground floor of the Tramway Bldg on Barrington, is at risk of eviction soon because of a rent dispute with the new landlord, Urban Spaces, who bought the building a few years ago from old Morris Strug. Apparently because of a dispute over some supplementary charges that U.S. claims are owed, they are refusing to renew Obladee's lease when it expires later this year.

That would be a real loss for the street. Obladee is a cool place.


I can't help but think it's extremely stupid of a landlord to evict a successful and popular commercial tenant on a street filled with vacancies. People love Obladee, and it's exactly the kind of place that will probably get nothing but more popular as the under-construction condos nearby get occupied. But the landlords' demands sound extreme--like they're trying to evict Obladee.

I love the way the interior is too; a great space. Hope it gets settled, but the story makes it sounds like there's some real hostility between landlord and tenant.

[Jstaleness]

Nice to see this place, for the first time in my lifetime, fully renovated and with a real tenant (Oak and Oxford St.):

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l217/halps00/DSC_0187_zpsyciynony.jpg

Simple and modern at the same time. I like!

[halifaxboyns]

I am more interested in the town homes behind. I must drive by for a look-see.

Good catch - I didn't even notice those until you mentioned them. Will be in Halifax in late July - will have to check them out too.

[counterfactual]

I can't help but think it's extremely stupid of a landlord to evict a successful and popular commercial tenant on a street filled with vacancies. People love Obladee, and it's exactly the kind of place that will probably get nothing but more popular as the under-construction condos nearby get occupied. But the landlords' demands sound extreme--like they're trying to evict Obladee.

I love the way the interior is too; a great space. Hope it gets settled, but the story makes it sounds like there's some real hostility between landlord and tenant.

It's incredibly dumb and stupid.

The unfortunate reality, is that now that Urban Outfitters has moved in, now all the greedy and money grubbing landlords on Barrington are going to be clamoring to raise rents and have empty shopfronts out of the small, small, hope that a big time corporate retailer comes along to rent the space.

You need places like Obladee and Stillwells to make the area attractive for people to live nearby; and with people nearby is the only way retailers come.

[Drybrain]

It's incredibly dumb and stupid.

The unfortunate reality, is that now that Urban Outfitters has moved in, now all the greedy and money grubbing landlords on Barrington are going to be clamoring to raise rents and have empty shopfronts out of the small, small, hope that a big time corporate retailer comes along to rent the space.

You need places like Obladee and Stillwells to make the area attractive for people to live nearby; and with people nearby is the only way retailers come.

Yeah. I think there's definitely room for chains on Barrington, but a healthy retail mix will include unique, indie, local places too. I hope this isn't a case of a landlord just thinking they can get more money from a chain tenant, but I wouldn't be surprised. I think they're miscalculating, if that's the case. They may get more money from a chain, but there are no guarantees they'll be able to lease to anyone in the short term, and they've got a very successful and dependable tenant that wants to sign a long-term commercial lease, and fits with the area's current demographic trajectory. So, yeah, dumb. If Onladee closes or moves, it won't help the already negative reputation of Barrington.

I can understand the landlord looking for a reasonable rent increase, given that the old rent was set five years ago, and the situation on Barrington is very different now. Doubling the rent all in on shot is basically extortion, though.

[planarchy]

Not sure if this has been posted, but Privacy Law Guru David Fraser has been making aerial videos with his drone around Halifax over the past view months.

They are high quality and very cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFMuc69soY0&list=PLFgopbjgzsAGlZhNB_mRf3VCgXAUPoZgO&index=12

[counterfactual]

Not sure if this has been posted, but Privacy Law Guru David Fraser has been making aerial videos with his drone around Halifax over the past view months.

They are high quality and very cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFMuc69soY0&list=PLFgopbjgzsAGlZhNB_mRf3VCgXAUPoZgO&index=12

Nice pictures, but isn't that basically the exact opposite thing a privacy advocate should be doing? :)

[terrynorthend]

Good catch - I didn't even notice those until you mentioned them. Will be in Halifax in late July - will have to check them out too.

That's just a duplex, and has been there a couple of years. Very upscale looking though. My only complaint would be of the garage doors and concrete driveways that dominate the front. Pretty standard for this style of build though, and I don't have a great alternative suggestion given the lot size. Just never liked houses that look like cars live there, and people are an after thought.

[worldlyhaligonian]

That's just a duplex, and has been there a couple of years. Very upscale looking though. My only complaint would be of the garage doors and concrete driveways that dominate the front. Pretty standard for this style of build though, and I don't have a great alternative suggestion given the lot size. Just never liked houses that look like cars live there, and people are an after thought.

They aren't very attractive in person... I have seen them during a visit. Suburban stuff.

I like the way that Noble Grape turned out... although isn't that stone like a west-coast thing that has recently been used more in the maritimes?

[Hali87]

I'm not sure, it's definitely surged in popularity lately but it looks like ironstone/slate (or something similar) which is what many of the old buildings at Dal are built of, for example.

[OldDartmouthMark]

From the Herald:

Plan to replace Art Gallery of Nova Scotia building set to begin in fall

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1294983-plan-to-replace-art-gallery-of-nova-scotia-building-set-to-begin-in-fall

The article isn't very clear, but it sounds like they are either searching for a new venue or planning to tear the old one down (?!). Particularly troubling to me is:

Shaw said the gallery’s current location on Hollis Street is “deteriorating.”

Leaks, humidity and an inability to control temperature are all serious issues, and he said “the existing building cannot be renovated at a reasonable cost.”

It seems to me that this is one of the finer examples of this type of building remaining in Halifax, and it cannot be renovated at reasonable cost? What is "reasonable cost"?

Would be a shame and embarrassment to lose this building IMHO.

Art Gallery on Google Streetview (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.648263,-63.573151,3a,75y,111.48h,110.25t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sul3XzzH8WQIu4Oj6axdbtA!2e0!5s20140801T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1)

[Keith P.]

Of course it was renovated into a gallery 20 years ago at considerable cost. If it leaks and floods and has uncontrolled humidity, that is an indictment of the Public Works people who approved the renovations. I doubt they will tear it down though, they will just turn it into govt offices to hold the ever-expanding bureaucracy. Meanwhile we will spend another $50-$100 million for a new gallery for the intelligentsia. I would much rather have that sum of money spent on a replacement for the unusable parts of the VG Hospital. Why do we even have a provincial art gallery? We are broke.

[ILoveHalifax]

Can't we sell all the art to Alberta or Ottawa?

[ILoveHalifax]

Tear down the VG and build a stadium on the site.
We could save a lot of money if we got rid of all the medical staff.
Just have a longer wait time for hospital

[Colin May]

Smells like a federal/provincial announcement of Infrastructure money and perhaps a significant private donor.
Perhaps a move to a renovated and expanded Dennis building is the announcement.
Seems obvious to me that AGNS wants to open the photo project with a 'BIG BANG' and getting all the BIG NAMES in one place at the same time is a logistical nightmare.
I think a $150,000,000 for the old navy boys project is a massive waste of money, a less expensive project would be acceptable.

[Keith P.]

Smells like a federal/provincial announcement of Infrastructure money and perhaps a significant private donor.
Perhaps a move to a renovated and expanded Dennis building is the announcement.
Seems obvious to me that AGNS wants to open the photo project with a 'BIG BANG' and getting all the BIG NAMES in one place at the same time is a logistical nightmare.
I think a $150,000,000 for the old navy boys project is a massive waste of money, a less expensive project would be acceptable.

But that would burst the delusional bubble that we can afford all these frills.

Meanwhile the core role of government gets neglected.

People need to realize that we cannot afford all this fringe stuff.

[someone123]

Of course it was renovated into a gallery 20 years ago at considerable cost. If it leaks and floods and has uncontrolled humidity, that is an indictment of the Public Works people who approved the renovations.

It is strange that while construction technology itself is improving, and it is easier than ever to create a long-lasting building, the life expectancy of public buildings seems to be falling dramatically. I also wonder how so many other places, many of them less wealthy, manage to quietly use much older heritage buildings for centuries.

I am sceptical of reports that boil down to "oh well, I guess we're going to have to build a shiny new landmark building". There must be a big temptation to inflate projected renovation costs for a report while underestimating the cost of a new building.

[Drybrain]

The Gallery North building is a heritage property, and I'm pretty confident that there is no scenario possible in which it would ever be torn down. The Gallery South building is not heritage protected, but I'd imagine a petty huge fight over it if there were a proposal to knock it down. (as there should be, since it's the most architecturally harmonious and grand single city block in the entire province.)

It seems like this is a case of institutional edifice complex--I don't believe for a second that it'd cost $50 million to renovate the existing gallery buildings, which are far from "crumbling" (that just sounds like a stupid choice of words by the reporter.) I would be very surprised if this is not simply that the AGNS honchos want to make a splash with a big new modern gallery, probably on the waterfront, and are inflating both the problems of the existing buildings and the cost to renovate it in order to make the case.

The AGNS is a pretty great institution, but this all feels really rotten, and it's upsetting to see a public institution turn to the old "oh well, it's one and decayed" argument.

[MonctonRad]

Of course it was renovated into a gallery 20 years ago at considerable cost. If it leaks and floods and has uncontrolled humidity, that is an indictment of the Public Works people who approved the renovations. I doubt they will tear it down though, they will just turn it into govt offices to hold the ever-expanding bureaucracy. Meanwhile we will spend another $50-$100 million for a new gallery for the intelligentsia. I would much rather have that sum of money spent on a replacement for the unusable parts of the VG Hospital. Why do we even have a provincial art gallery? We are broke.

$50-$100M wouldn't cut it for a renovation of the VG. Anything substantive would cost well north of a billion.

It's more likely that the VG will get blown up (no loss really) and the infirmary site will get expanded. Even that would probably cost at least $800M or so.

Regarding the AGNS, it would be sad to see the existing building torn down. Hopefully they can find some way to renovate the existing site, even if it means they have to temporarily relocate the art gallery during the renovation period.

Whatever happened to the Annie Liebovitz collection???

[Ziobrop]

From the Herald:



http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1294983-plan-to-replace-art-gallery-of-nova-scotia-building-set-to-begin-in-fall

The article isn't very clear, but it sounds like they are either searching for a new venue or planning to tear the old one down (?!). Particularly troubling to me is:



It seems to me that this is one of the finer examples of this type of building remaining in Halifax, and it cannot be renovated at reasonable cost? What is "reasonable cost"?

Would be a shame and embarrassment to lose this building IMHO.

Art Gallery on Google Streetview (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.648263,-63.573151,3a,75y,111.48h,110.25t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sul3XzzH8WQIu4Oj6axdbtA!2e0!5s20140801T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1)

speculating here, but I think the building can be fixed for people. though the mechanical required to control temperature and humidity for art would be quite a bit more cumbersome/expensive.

[Keith P.]

$50-$100M wouldn't cut it for a renovation of the VG. Anything substantive would cost well north of a billion.

That's not what I said. I said a replacement for the unusable parts of the VGH, design work on which is already underway.

[Drybrain]

Guys, no one is talking about tearing down the AGNS buildings. They're planning to move to a whole new location. When they do that, the existing buildings will probably just be turned back into bureaucrat's offices or something. In any case, I'm not sure I buy the humidity issue--part of the problem, as I understand it, is that the Gallery South building is partly used as offices for government workers, and partly used by AGNS, which makes it really difficult to keep the air quality consistent throughout the structure. The obvious solution would seem to be to move the government workers to another building, which would help resolve the humidity/temperature issue, and also free up more potential gallery space.

Maybe they'd still need to do considerable work to improve the climate control, but $50 million? I completely admit I'm not an expert on this stuff, but it feels ridiculous. They spent $13 million ($24 million, inflation-adjusted) in 1988 to convert the Gallery South building, and millions more in '98 to convert Gallery North. There's since been regular maintenance work and restoration of the sandstone exterior. But now it's all "crumbling"? Come on.

I strongly suspect the current problems with the buildings, and the costs to repair them, are being significantly exaggerated in order to make the case for a new building. I've been in loads of art galleries that seem to do just fine with their older structures, including Vancouver's VAG, MOMA in NYC, etc.

[fenwick16]

From the Herald:



http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1294983-plan-to-replace-art-gallery-of-nova-scotia-building-set-to-begin-in-fall

The article isn't very clear, but it sounds like they are either searching for a new venue or planning to tear the old one down (?!). Particularly troubling to me is:

It seems to me that this is one of the finer examples of this type of building remaining in Halifax, and it cannot be renovated at reasonable cost? What is "reasonable cost"?

Would be a shame and embarrassment to lose this building IMHO.

Art Gallery on Google Streetview (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.648263,-63.573151,3a,75y,111.48h,110.25t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sul3XzzH8WQIu4Oj6axdbtA!2e0!5s20140801T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1)


I think it would be a big mistake for them to move to a new building.

I think most art should be in an older, architecturally significant building, such as where they are right now. I visited the AGNS about 25 years ago and what attracted me to the art gallery was the old building. I think if it had been in a modern building then I wouldn't have been interested in going in, just to see the art.

Renovate the current building please! I love that old building.

[Haligonian88]

Andy Filmore had mentioned (during one of the Jane's Walks last month) the possibility of the AGNS constructing a new building on the waterfront in the Salter Street block, out by the water where the boardwalk was extended out around the perimeter of the site. He said it would become the prominent building on the waterfront, replacing Purdy's Towers. Would be great to see another hole in the waterfront filled in.

[counterfactual]

I have a solution:

How about the Nova Scotia government stop subsidizing dying ferries and polluting Pulp Mills and actually spend the necessary money to repair and maintain existing infrastructure in our capital city, which is growing, and is also the central engine for economic growth in the region?

[eastcoastal]

...It seems to me that this is one of the finer examples of this type of building remaining in Halifax, and it cannot be renovated at reasonable cost? What is "reasonable cost"?

Would be a shame and embarrassment to lose this building IMHO.

Art Gallery on Google Streetview (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.648263,-63.573151,3a,75y,111.48h,110.25t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sul3XzzH8WQIu4Oj6axdbtA!2e0!5s20140801T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1)

It would be a shame to loose this building. I do not think that the default upon loosing the AGNS as a tenant will be to tear it down. I assumed (and I may be wrong) that the phrase meant it couldn't be renovated AS AN ART GALLERY at a reasonable cost (most likely due to perceived contradictions between old building and humidity and temperature control requirements for art).

[OldDartmouthMark]

It would be a shame to loose this building. I do not think that the default upon loosing the AGNS as a tenant will be to tear it down. I assumed (and I may be wrong) that the phrase meant it couldn't be renovated AS AN ART GALLERY at a reasonable cost (most likely due to perceived contradictions between old building and humidity and temperature control requirements for art).

As you and the other posters have pointed out, this sounds like the most reasonable scenario.

My brief moment of panic (lol) has passed.... ;)

[someone123]

As you and the other posters have pointed out, this sounds like the most reasonable scenario.

My brief moment of panic (lol) has passed.... ;)

Yes, they are both great buildings and I bet they could be easily converted to other uses.

I think part of the root problem here is how these things are presented in the media. Any time an institution wants a new building it's implied that the old one is falling down and about to be demolished. This isn't typically true unless there's been a lot of deferred maintenance. The solution there is to do the maintenance and properly account for its low amortized cost (the media just report "millions of dollars", but is that over 5 years? 20 years? A $10M maintenance bill for a major public building with 20 years of deferred maintenance is small). Very few buildings have unresolvable problems. Most can be shifted onto other uses. Having more affordable older buildings is a huge benefit for urban economies; young companies can't afford shiny new buildings so they need the older buildings. Volta Labs is one good example of this in Halifax. They are (or were) in the old TD building and they want to take over the old library, which no doubt some councillor said had to be demolished for a park because it didn't happen to be suitable for expansion.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it sometimes makes sense to build new buildings for these public institutions if it attracts major private donations from people who wouldn't otherwise be interested. Or even public dollars from the federal government that are only available for "sexy" projects.

[Ziobrop]

Yes, they are both great buildings and I bet they could be easily converted to other uses.

I think part of the root problem here is how these things are presented in the media. Any time an institution wants a new building it's implied that the old one is falling down and about to be demolished. This isn't typically true unless there's been a lot of deferred maintenance. The solution there is to do the maintenance and properly account for its low amortized cost (the media just report "millions of dollars", but is that over 5 years? 20 years? A $10M maintenance bill for a major public building with 20 years of deferred maintenance is small). Very few buildings have unresolvable problems. Most can be shifted onto other uses. Having more affordable older buildings is a huge benefit for urban economies; young companies can't afford shiny new buildings so they need the older buildings. Volta Labs is one good example of this in Halifax. They are (or were) in the old TD building and they want to take over the old library, which no doubt some councillor said had to be demolished for a park because it didn't happen to be suitable for expansion.

re-development of the old library hosts a number of issues - the big one being that it is built on the Poor House and Jail burying Grounds. It is unlikely that that plot can be re-developed entirely as a result, so finding a re-use for the building is probably the best.

[JET]

re-development of the old library hosts a number of issues - the big one being that it is built on the Poor House and Jail burying Grounds. It is unlikely that that plot can be re-developed entirely as a result, so finding a re-use for the building is probably the best.

There also were stuctural issues at the old library due to the stress on the floor due to the weight of the books. Probably not an issue for other tenants who might take over the space.

[Drybrain]

There also were stuctural issues at the old library due to the stress on the floor due to the weight of the books. Probably not an issue for other tenants who might take over the space.

That seems like a funny problem for a library to have. One would imagine they'd have built it a bit more robustly to deal with that.



Any time an institution wants a new building it's implied that the old one is falling down and about to be demolished. This isn't typically true unless there's been a lot of deferred maintenance.


Same with the Khyber. In that case, there HAS been a lot of deferred maintenance, and the building no doubt is in rough shape. And I'm worried about the long-term future of the building if the current fundraising effort and Neptune partnership somehow falls through. But it's not like the city's going to bring in the dozers in six months and auction off the lot to the highest bidder or something.

[Keith P.]

There also were stuctural issues at the old library due to the stress on the floor due to the weight of the books. Probably not an issue for other tenants who might take over the space.

One suspects that was in the same category of issue as those who say the Art Gallery is "crumbling" - just a justification for a shiny new building.

[JET]

One suspects that was in the same category of issue as those who say the Art Gallery is "crumbling" - just a justification for a shiny new building.

Probably also true for the Dennis Building then?:shrug: