General Updates and News

[fenwick16]

Halifax November sunset:

All photos by Empire - pls excuse the blur

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_4640.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_4638.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_4636.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q7/empire1_2007/IMG_4620.jpg




Thank you Empire. Halifax really looks like a boom town with all the cranes. Very impressive.

[someone123]

Nice photos. Eventually we might see 5 cranes around the north end of downtown: 3 for the Citadel Hotel, the Waterside Centre (which hopefully will stay up long enough), and TD (which will have to be taller than the others).

[spaustin]

Strange given the work that went into it, but apparently the Downtown Chickenburger is coming down already to make way for new development. It's a rather unremarkable old house that has no context left because everything around it was demolished so I don't think it's a big loss. It could tie into the Sisters redevelopment. I would, however, be really disappointed to see the Mills building go. There's good history there... Then again, a lot of it was wiped out in the reno and the building really looks like a garish mishmash now so I don't know. I'm torn.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/11/23/ns-chickenburger-closing-downtown.html

[fenwick16]

It is good to see that Spring Garden Road has become such a magnet for development. It will be interesting to see who the developer is and whether they have acquired any additional properties on that half of the "Sisters" block. Here is a Bing Maps link for out-of-towners - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf6ds39q1t6p&lvl=18.29&dir=272.03&sty=b&where1=1466%20Queen%20St%2C%20Halifax%2C%20NS%20B3J%2C%20Canada&form=LMLTCC

[kph06]

Construction on the new building to replace the building lost in the New Years Eve fire last year has started, looks as though there will be a crane here soon too. Photo by me:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8340/8215116516_cee019fcff_b.jpg

[Empire]

Strange given the work that went into it, but apparently the Downtown Chickenburger is coming down already to make way for new development. It's a rather unremarkable old house that has no context left because everything around it was demolished so I don't think it's a big loss. It could tie into the Sisters redevelopment. I would, however, be really disappointed to see the Mills building go. There's good history there... Then again, a lot of it was wiped out in the reno and the building really looks like a garish mishmash now so I don't know. I'm torn.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/11/23/ns-chickenburger-closing-downtown.html

Part of what makes Spring Garden attractive are shops like Mills....or what Mills used to be. The reno has ruined the look & intent of the building and to have the street lined with Park Lanes & City Centre Atlantics deminishes the character.

So Mickey MacDonald has done 2 expensive renos in the Spring Garden Rd. area and is demolishing them both. I hope he is only financing this new venture and not making any real decisions.

[Drybrain]

Part of what makes Spring Garden attractive are shops like Mills....or what Mills used to be. The reno has ruined the look & intent of the building and to have the street lined with Park Lanes & City Centre Atlantics deminishes the character.

So Mickey MacDonald has done 2 expensive renos in the Spring Garden Rd. area and is demolishing them both. I hope he is only financing this new venture and not making any real decisions.

Indeed. The cheap-looking quality of the Mills reno doesn't bode well for whatever McDonald plans to replace it with. If this goes through, and if Danny Chedrawe ever moves forward with his plan to demolish the excellent block of SGR between Queen and Brunswick, the whole character of the strip will be seriously diminished. All these buildings are in decent shape and well-scaled to the street--certain developers really need to jump on the adaptive-reuse bandwagon. Blockbusting and mediocre reconstruction is no way to build the neighbourhood.

[rajoclock]

Ah, yes. The ol' Fenwick Pyramid...well played, Bing...well played.

http://i.imgur.com/b0L4v.jpg

[someone123]

It is a complicated issue. It is normal to expect areas to get more chain stores and modern buildings as the city grows and rents rise in prime districts. If Halifax gets new areas that function the way Spring Garden Road used to then the city could be much better off on balance. I'd like to see the Fenwick area, Spring Garden near Robie, Gottingen, and Agricola become successful retail areas. We haven't seen much evolution of these neighbourhoods in the past because there hasn't been enough planning direction and infill in the inner city, but I think that is changing.

I don't think we can necessarily predict what the new buildings on Spring Garden will look like by pointing to older buildings like Park Lane. The quality of urban design has gone up a lot lately and seems to be driven by HbD and local architects more than particular developers. It is not that far-fetched to imagine new buildings that are better than the Chickenburger house or Mills.

[fenwick16]

Ah, yes. The ol' Fenwick Pyramid...well played, Bing...well played.


That is an interesting distortion that I had never noticed before. It seems to be one certain angle and within a few zoom levels.

[Empire]

It is a complicated issue. It is normal to expect areas to get more chain stores and modern buildings as the city grows and rents rise in prime districts. If Halifax gets new areas that function the way Spring Garden Road used to then the city could be much better off on balance. I'd like to see the Fenwick area, Spring Garden near Robie, Gottingen, and Agricola become successful retail areas. We haven't seen much evolution of these neighbourhoods in the past because there hasn't been enough planning direction and infill in the inner city, but I think that is changing.

I don't think we can necessarily predict what the new buildings on Spring Garden will look like by pointing to older buildings like Park Lane. The quality of urban design has gone up a lot lately and seems to be driven by HbD and local architects more than particular developers. It is not that far-fetched to imagine new buildings that are better than the Chickenburger house or Mills.

It's not a matter of a new mediocre building being better than Mills or the Chickenburger. Of any street in Eastern Canada Spring Garden Rd. had the potential to be a bit like Sherbrooke St or St. Denis in Montreal. This is due to some smaller scale buildings with character. Ripping them down and building a Mickey MacDonald mall brings the big box to Spring Garden Rd. " Lost Opportunity"

Rue St. Denis, Montreal
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=st+denis+montreal&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.52233,-73.579357&spn=0.000004,0.00184&sll=45.499272,-73.579131&sspn=0.003534,0.00736&t=h&hq=st+denis&hnear=Montreal,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec&fll=45.522702,-73.579854&fspn=0.000876,0.00184&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.52233,-73.579357&panoid=PR1vZuLDOFf4vMnj05UvNA&cbp=12,6.39,,0,0

Rue Sherbrooke, Montreal
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=shopping+Sherbrooke+Street+West,+Montreal,+QC&hl=en&ll=45.496451,-73.581863&spn=0.000004,0.00184&sll=45.504522,-73.573957&sspn=0.056545,0.11776&t=h&start=60&hq=shopping&hnear=Sherbrooke+St+W,+Montreal,+Quebec&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.496546,-73.58189&panoid=rOZ3gYui7eUtnYb9PxmeSQ&cbp=12,335.27,,0,0

[Drybrain]

Of any street in Eastern Canada Spring Garden Rd. had the potential to be a bit like Sherbrooke St or St. Denis in Montreal."

Good analogy--SGR is a smaller version of this sort of high-end retail street. Small enough that a few bad developments could screw it up real badly. (Honestly, I've got little faith that the Chedrawe plan, should it ever happen, will be worth the loss—the early renderings (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/jonovision/Unknown.jpg) looked extremely unpromising, an 80s-ish glass mid-rise with poor street presence. If it ever gets proposed, I really hope community outcry kills it. But I bet the Heritage Trust are too busy worrying about blocking mid-rise infill on parking lots to even be aware of it...)

Anyway, as far as Chickenburger, I'm a bit confused as to what exactly is gonna be knocked down. Some media outlets said the Chickenburger building and another property on Birmingham. That makes it sound as if it'll be minimal demolition—perhaps a few houses. No big deal, especially if the replacement is good.

But the CBC story suggested that the land under redevelopment would also include the whole block's worth of buildings fronting SGR, which is crazy. It's a huge parcel of land to demolish, and has some of the best street frontage on the strip. Even with the poor renos, it's got a great Maritime-commercial feel, and the buildings are obviously in fine shape. Blockbusting of this kind is supposed to be passé in planning and development circles, right? Building behind and over them, embellishing what's already there, seems the obvious way to go.

[Nifta]

I saw today that HMV on sgr is closing down. Does anyone know if a new tenant is lined up, or will we have another empty building on spring garden?

[spaustin]

But the CBC story suggested that the land under redevelopment would also include the whole block's worth of buildings fronting SGR, which is crazy. It's a huge parcel of land to demolish, and has some of the best street frontage on the strip. Even with the poor renos, it's got a great Maritime-commercial feel, and the buildings are obviously in fine shape. Blockbusting of this kind is supposed to be passé in planning and development circles, right? Building behind and over them, embellishing what's already there, seems the obvious way to go.

I suspect CBC has it right. Mills Brothers was recently sold and will be moving into Spring Garden Place. So the question is why sell and why would the new owners move out? Reading those tea leaves really suggests that the whole block could be coming down (don't know who owns the building that Starbucks is in). If it happens, it could really destroy Spring Garden. I guess we'll have to wait and see what's in store. If it's level and build new, it'll be a real challenge. Very few modern buildings are good at replicating fine-grain retail. They tend to lose the human scale and build one long uniform and boring expanse with a single large floor plate. It's not surprising because that's the easiest thing to build and is the easiest thing to get financing and tenants for. Everybody wants to lease to Shoppers Drug Mart. Commercial spots that are split up like what's at the base of the W Suites tend to be uncommon. Here's hoping that this won't be a disaster.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/146259-new-owners-eye-rejuvenated-mills

[worldlyhaligonian]

The Chickenburger would look terrible across from the new library and I'm happy about that development. The rest of it is really debatable... SGR will certainly lose alot of character. The sister sites will extend the retail south and that is a big gain for the area... its becoming more of a shopping district as opposed to just a street.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Ah, yes. The ol' Fenwick Pyramid...well played, Bing...well played.

http://i.imgur.com/b0L4v.jpg

Pyongyang style!

[scooby074]

Ah, yes. The ol' Fenwick Pyramid...well played, Bing...well played.


The Burj Al Halifax :D

[RyeJay]

The Burj Al Halifax :D

More like the Halifax Sky City...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGrgAYC7f9M

[Keith P.]

I suspect CBC has it right. Mills Brothers was recently sold and will be moving into Spring Garden Place. So the question is why sell and why would the new owners move out? Reading those tea leaves really suggests that the whole block could be coming down (don't know who owns the building that Starbucks is in). If it happens, it could really destroy Spring Garden. I guess we'll have to wait and see what's in store. If it's level and build new, it'll be a real challenge. Very few modern buildings are good at replicating fine-grain retail. They tend to lose the human scale and build one long uniform and boring expanse with a single large floor plate. It's not surprising because that's the easiest thing to build and is the easiest thing to get financing and tenants for. Everybody wants to lease to Shoppers Drug Mart. Commercial spots that are split up like what's at the base of the W Suites tend to be uncommon. Here's hoping that this won't be a disaster.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/146259-new-owners-eye-rejuvenated-mills

I do not think it will be a major loss. With the Mills store moving it is hypothetical as to what would replace it. Those storefronts never did much for me. I remember walking that route daily in the 80s and 90s on my way to work and in the winter those shop windows would be frosted over. Hardly attractive.

I do wonder about MacDonald though. Don't forget he also rebuilt and then quickly sold the Palookas gym on Gottingen St too. The Chickenburger project never made any sense to me and I never understood why he just didn't knock the thing down in the first place. And he has mismanaged Mills from day one and never seemed to figure out the kind of business it was or could be.

I should see what they want for the busty chrome-plated woman above the front doors. :haha:

[someone123]

I don't think Sherbrooke and St-Denis in Montreal are very similar to Spring Garden Road. Spring Garden Road is the only place in Halifax where you can find major retailers in storefronts. St-Denis is more of a neighbourhood commercial street; it has small stores and very few newer buildings. Many of them are stone, whereas the lower end Spring Garden buildings are wood and have been significantly altered in many cases. Sherbrooke is a mix of small commercial buildings and residential/hotel. It has some wonderful buildings but also some plain slab type buildings and parts of it have a tired appearance. I was back in Montreal a couple of months ago and I enjoyed my trip but I find the city has a very "retro" feel. It has not progressed as much as Vancouver has.

Given Spring Garden's rents, it makes sense that a lot of the old wooden buildings will be redeveloped. Spring Garden Road has some nice buildings (former Bank of Montreal, the Sport NS one, Lord Nelson) but it also has a lot of small buildings of little architectural value. I think Mills could easily be replaced by something much better. We already have small retail spaces in the W Suites and the Vic has a nicely broken up facade. This new development should be even better because it will be able to command higher rents.

Like I said, the smaller scale retail can move farther out to areas like Argicola. That's how it's worked in other growing cities, and that's how it worked in Halifax back when the urban core was still successful. There was a time for example when all the best retailers were on Granville, and Barrington was a mix of smaller shops and residences.

[Drybrain]

...whereas the lower end Spring Garden buildings are wood and have been significantly altered in many cases.

True, but most of Halifax's older buildings, commercial and residential, are wood, at least outside of the immediate downtown core. That's just the local vernacular. As we see with the city's well-preserved clapboard streetscapes, a properly maintained wooden structure can last for decades or centuries.

It looks like MacDonald wants to move fast with this, and the worst-case scenario would be to replace what's there right now with something hastily conceived, or just plain unattractive. (I'm thinking of the big slab of ugly that is Cornwallis House, right across the street, which replaced a decent three-storey Victorian wood building.) If the new development really turns out to be an improvement, awesome. But the current SGR streetscape works well, as does the Birmingham streetscape. The new development will have to be seriously fantastic, from an urban and aesthetic perspective, to justify the demolition. I'm just not confident MacDonald's got that in him. But--I hope I'm wrong!

[cormiermax]

True, but most of Halifax's older buildings, commercial and residential, are wood, at least outside of the immediate downtown core. That's just the local vernacular. As we see with the city's well-preserved clapboard streetscapes, a properly maintained wooden structure can last for decades or centuries.

It looks like MacDonald wants to move fast with this, and the worst-case scenario would be to replace what's there right now with something hastily conceived, or just plain unattractive. (I'm thinking of the big slab of ugly that is Cornwallis House, right across the street, which replaced a decent three-storey Victorian wood building.) If the new development really turns out to be an improvement, awesome. But the current SGR streetscape works well, as does the Birmingham streetscape. The new development will have to be seriously fantastic, from an urban and aesthetic perspective, to justify the demolition. I'm just not confident MacDonald's got that in him. But--I hope I'm wrong!

I actually like Cornwallis House, the building it replaced was completely decrepit.

[Hali87]

I actually don't mind Cornwallis House (although I don't remember ever seeing what was there before) but I think having the current Mills buildings across the street from it looks a lot cooler than having another Cornwallis House across the street. IMO those are among the most important buildings on Spring Garden as they still give the street a high-end feel but are also very different from what you'd normally expect in that kind of retail strip. I also don't think the chicken burger was a bad idea; I went a couple times while I was home in August and it always seemed pretty busy, and the food is cheap but delicious by fast food standards (especially the burgers). Also the setup might not make sense from an urban design standpoint, but there were picnic tables set up in the parking lot (again, usually well-used) and the whole thing was sort of just barely sheltered from the hustle and bustle of SGR, which made for a comfortable vibe. I think it was developed in anticipation of the new library and Clyde St. projects, and if it is included in the redevelopment I think it will be successful.

One possible reason why MacDonald might seem like he is stumbling around blindly as of late is that historically most of his businesses have been based in Bedford. In the case of Palooka's, for instance, the original gym is in one of the wealthiest parts of the HRM while the Gottingen location was located in one of the most impoverished. MacDonald did try to take this into account, and the focus on the Gottingen gym was supposed to be totally different, but things didn't turn out the was he had hoped or expected. I think that the gym actually was more profitable than expected, but the whole point was for it to get the local kids off the streets and give them something to do. When he noticed that this wasn't really happening, he closed it. In the case of Chickenburger, he probably didn't consider that he'd be able to start the larger redevelopment so soon. Spring Garden is a lot more dynamic than the Sunnyside area in terms of redevelopment.

[Hali87]

Keith P., you'll probably hate this, but for everyone else:

Urban art brushes back vandalism (http://thechronicleherald.ca/thenovascotian/193526-urban-art-brushes-back-vandalism)

AN ANGRY CARTOON SUN glares at pedestrians walking past Nauss Bike Shop on Agricola Street. Nearly illegible bubble letters claim an entire exterior wall. A desert landscape runs along the bottom. Thought has been given to filling the entire space with graffiti-style art.

For years, taggers targeted Nauss, costing the small business hundreds of dollars a year in paint to cover it up.

“We weren’t getting artists writing on our shop — we were getting kids who were making a mess,” Nauss manager Brent Halverson says. “You clean it off and it just gets tagged again.”

It became obvious to the long-time bike shop employee that a new strategy was needed.

Over the summer, Halverson put the call out to six local graffiti artists (also known as graffiti writers) to paint murals on the bike shop.

“I knew that it would at least be an improvement to cover it up with something more colourful, more attractive, and hopefully get locals artists and the community involved in the project.”

He pitched the project to the shop owner, who didn’t like the idea at first, but eventually came around.

Nauss hasn’t been tagged since the murals went up.

The shop is one of several small businesses on the Halifax peninsula that are using an unwritten code to their advantage.

...

A classmate of mine was commissioned by Fred Connors to do the mural on the side of his business at North & Agricola, and I remember seeing a few other good murals on Agricola besides the one mentioned in the article. Although this type of art is going up all over the city, a lot of the focus seems to be on Agricola these days. And I think that this trend will be great for that street, and that in all of HRM it's probably the most perfect street for it. The area is already popular with the hip, counterculture types and I think that this could be great for the area's sense of identity. I should point out that I'm also a fan of the murals on Quinpool, which are of a very different style and again have added to the area's identity/uniqueness, although I noticed the one on King's Palace didn't last too long before it was painted over.

[someone123]

Actually I just found an old picture of the Victorian building that was on the Cornwallis House site:

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/64650128.jpg
Gallery: http://www.panoramio.com/user/1611686?comment_page=1&photo_page=1

Maybe it could have been renovated into something nicer, but I don't think Cornwallis House hurt the street. Spring Garden is much more successful now than it was in 1980.

I've heard that the Mills building design is meant to resemble the Liberty department store in London. I don't think Mills has a lot of architectural merit worthy of preservation, or that it is better than the best new buildings being built right now. Here's what the real Liberty looks like. If Spring Garden had a building like this it would be worthy of preservation:

http://inzumi.com/images/destinations/GB_London_Liberty.jpg
Source (http://inzumi.com/en/travel/point-of-interest/d_id/London/c_id/Shopping/p_id/Liberty)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Liberty_London_2.jpg/640px-Liberty_London_2.jpg
Source (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Liberty_London_2.jpg)

[Hali87]

I think if the plan is for the new building to have Tudor stylings then there will be no real loss as long as the design and materials are good.

[eastcoastal]

I think if the plan is for the new building to have Tudor stylings then there will be no real loss as long as the design and materials are good.

... except Tudor's not really relevant anymore? I don't think it's reflective of the world right now, as a style. I'd prefer to see the poorly conceived faux-stone-tiles that coat the lower portion of Mills removed and have it brought back to something closer to what it was (Tudor)... with new, higher rise development behind and obviously different style than the Mills storefront.

[Hali87]

... except Tudor's not really relevant anymore? I don't think it's reflective of the world right now, as a style. I'd prefer to see the poorly conceived faux-stone-tiles that coat the lower portion of Mills removed and have it brought back to something closer to what it was (Tudor)... with new, higher rise development behind and obviously different style than the Mills storefront.

For me, in this case, it's not a matter of expressing "currently relevant" (contemporary?) architectural style, it's a matter of holding on to at least a handful of the older, wooden architecture that give SGR a sense of place. Replace them all with glass and steel and you might get a very modern feel for the street, but with nothing from the local vernacular, it would be less remarkable on say a national scale. I have nothing against modernity, and as it is Spring Garden is on its way to being one of the most heavily post-modern neighbourhoods in Canada thanks to Park Lane, the Martello, the Trillium, CCA, Cornwallis House, the new library, the Clyde Street lots, etc. Having both the very new and cutting-edge and the very old and traditional (even if it is "not particularly historic" or "of little architectural significance") together in one strip makes for a more interesting environment than just new, IMO.

[scooby074]

More like the Halifax Sky City...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGrgAYC7f9M

Now thats a scary concept... Rapid, chinese construction applied to the world's tallest building. It'll cast a long (and dangerous) shadow.

[RyeJay]

Now thats a scary concept... Rapid, chinese construction applied to the world's tallest building. It'll cast a long (and dangerous) shadow.

This company's buildings could pass the test of time. We'll see, I suppose. It's certainly impressive (but yes, scary, as well)...

[Drybrain]

I've heard that the Mills building design is meant to resemble the Liberty department store in London...If Spring Garden had a building like this it would be worthy of preservation:

http://inzumi.com/images/destinations/GB_London_Liberty.jpg
Source (http://inzumi.com/en/travel/point-of-interest/d_id/London/c_id/Shopping/p_id/Liberty)



Well, London's is far more impressive, but hey, it's London. This is Halifax: smaller, humbler, quainter. Can't hold ourselves to those standards.

Anyway, like I said, I'll be supportive of the development should it turn out to be better. I'd love to see what eastcoastal said: the bad reno undone and with a higher building constructed in the rear. But somehow, I doubt it.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Well, London's is far more impressive, but hey, it's London. This is Halifax: smaller, humbler, quainter. Can't hold ourselves to those standards.

Anyway, like I said, I'll be supportive of the development should it turn out to be better. I'd love to see what eastcoastal said: the bad reno undone and with a higher building constructed in the rear. But somehow, I doubt it.

Didn't it look more authentic before Lulu came in and the exterior was redone quite a bit?

Last time I was in Halifax it looked like a Walmart version of its former self... I'd rather see something landmark... Although I'm against the former BMO block redevelopment.

The street is definitely losing is character

[scooby074]

This company's buildings could pass the test of time. We'll see, I suppose. It's certainly impressive (but yes, scary, as well)...

Well if past history is any indication...

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01432/china_1432267c.jpg

:runaway:

[Drybrain]

Didn't it look more authentic before Lulu came in and the exterior was redone quite a bit?

Last time I was in Halifax it looked like a Walmart version of its former self... I'd rather see something landmark... Although I'm against the former BMO block redevelopment.

The street is definitely losing is character

Yeah, the reno was quite tacky. I don't actually know what it used to look like inside, just the street-level exterior, which used to be much better before MacDonald slapped some faux-stone from Home Hardware all over it. No accounting for taste.

But yeah, hopefully we can all agree that Chedrawe's looming idea to level the entire BMO block is a terrible, destructive, idea. That's a lynchpin location for the whole neighbourhood.

[RyeJay]

Well if past history is any indication...

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01432/china_1432267c.jpg

:runaway:

:( Omg...

This picture has motivated me to jump to Google. This 13-storey building collapse happening because they were digging the underground parking lot for this building on one side, while piling all the dirt on the opposite side. After rain storms, the ground upon which the completed building stands became unsettled.

I cannot find the name of the company responsible for this project. Hopefully it's not Broad Group... !!!

[spaustin]

It looks like MacDonald wants to move fast with this, and the worst-case scenario would be to replace what's there right now with something hastily conceived, or just plain unattractive. (I'm thinking of the big slab of ugly that is Cornwallis House, right across the street, which replaced a decent three-storey Victorian wood building.) If the new development really turns out to be an improvement, awesome. But the current SGR streetscape works well, as does the Birmingham streetscape. The new development will have to be seriously fantastic, from an urban and aesthetic perspective, to justify the demolition. I'm just not confident MacDonald's got that in him. But--I hope I'm wrong!

That's my feeling too. Really good modern buildings that work well with the street that they're on tend to be the exception rather than the rule. It's too easy to do things thoughtlessly, which means that when something like the loss of Mills comes up, it can be hard to be confident.

[Keith P.]

Keith P., you'll probably hate this, but for everyone else:

Urban art brushes back vandalism (http://thechronicleherald.ca/thenovascotian/193526-urban-art-brushes-back-vandalism)

A classmate of mine was commissioned by Fred Connors to do the mural on the side of his business at North & Agricola, and I remember seeing a few other good murals on Agricola besides the one mentioned in the article. Although this type of art is going up all over the city, a lot of the focus seems to be on Agricola these days. And I think that this trend will be great for that street, and that in all of HRM it's probably the most perfect street for it. The area is already popular with the hip, counterculture types and I think that this could be great for the area's sense of identity. I should point out that I'm also a fan of the murals on Quinpool, which are of a very different style and again have added to the area's identity/uniqueness, although I noticed the one on King's Palace didn't last too long before it was painted over.

I saw that article when it first appeared and just shook my head. Essentially the property owners are being forced to give into blackmail. Deface your property with gang-related graffiti vandalism, or deface it with truly ugly graffiti-based "urban art" that is really just more of the same. It is of absolutely zero value.

I think I will investigate the market for teflon-based coatings that will allow this garbage to be easily washed off buildings. It would be the paint equivalent of those spike strips that are placed on ledges to keep pigeons from crapping on buildings. Sadly, even pigeon crap is better than this kind of crap.

[Keith P.]

Actually I just found an old picture of the Victorian building that was on the Cornwallis House site:

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/64650128.jpg
Gallery: http://www.panoramio.com/user/1611686?comment_page=1&photo_page=1

Maybe it could have been renovated into something nicer, but I don't think Cornwallis House hurt the street. Spring Garden is much more successful now than it was in 1980.


Ah, yes, I remember that dump. White vinyl siding everywhere, uneven, creaky floors, cut-up spaces. I remember visiting a classmate who had an apartment in one of the upstairs sections and it was a pretty scuzzy space. The replacement by Cornwallis House - which is a very nice office building, BTW - was a huge improvement.

[Hali87]

Deface your property with gang-related graffiti vandalism, or deface it with truly ugly graffiti-based "urban art" that is really just more of the same. It is of absolutely zero value.

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think this stuff looks AWESOME and I would bet my next paycheque that the majority of Haligonians under the age of 40 would agree with me. It is inherently NOT of zero value because people are paying for it. Most of the "tags" (what you refer to as "gang-related") are not gang related at all, they're just the result of stupid kids writing their nicknames on walls with sharpies. The murals that have been commissioned are absolutely not the same thing. They may have the same origins but like it or not, the murals are art, they have value and they are enjoyed by a great many people, even non-criminals.

[Keith P.]

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think this stuff looks AWESOME and I would bet my next paycheque that the majority of Haligonians under the age of 40 would agree with me. It is inherently NOT of zero value because people are paying for it. Most of the "tags" (what you refer to as "gang-related") are not gang related at all, they're just the result of stupid kids writing their nicknames on walls with sharpies. The murals that have been commissioned are absolutely not the same thing. They may have the same origins but like it or not, the murals are art, they have value and they are enjoyed by a great many people, even non-criminals.

They are defacing buildings and are an eyesore. I would prefer the multicolor patterns that were painted on the now-demolished buildings on Robie and Pepperell adjacent to the Atlantica Hotel/Holiday Inn a few years ago as a protest by the property owner, which were later declared an unsightly premise. This stuff is simply hideous and immediately makes the city look like a gang warfare zone.

[Antigonish]

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think this stuff looks AWESOME and I would bet my next paycheque that the majority of Haligonians under the age of 40 would agree with me. It is inherently NOT of zero value because people are paying for it. Most of the "tags" (what you refer to as "gang-related") are not gang related at all, they're just the result of stupid kids writing their nicknames on walls with sharpies. The murals that have been commissioned are absolutely not the same thing. They may have the same origins but like it or not, the murals are art, they have value and they are enjoyed by a great many people, even non-criminals.
Agreed. And remember everyone has to start out at some point. I'm not a fan of simple flared tags or ugly 'throw-ups' you see a lot around the city but there are a number of amazing artists in Halifax. I met APER years ago at a party when I lived in the city and seeing that guy piece was f*cking amazing. Not many of your standard school-bred artists anywhere have the imagine or experience to write graffiti pieces, I think its greatly under appreciated in the older generations of society because its not a sub-culture they grew up to or are accustomed to.

[Dmajackson]

When it comes to deterring graffiti I think the best methods are found on North Street. The law offices at Windsor installed flower boxes which seemed to do the trick (and made the corner a lot more attractive), and the FRED building at Agricola has a wicked mural facing the alley.

Personally I think some forms of graffiti look great but not when they are facing public roads. In alleys they fit in well but on the front of buildings flower boxes and innovate facade designs seem to work and look a lot better.

[Wishblade]

They are defacing buildings and are an eyesore. I would prefer the multicolor patterns that were painted on the now-demolished buildings on Robie and Pepperell adjacent to the Atlantica Hotel/Holiday Inn a few years ago as a protest by the property owner, which were later declared an unsightly premise. This stuff is simply hideous and immediately makes the city look like a gang warfare zone.

lol, gang warfare zone. Thats a good one. If the graffiti artists are actually good at their craft it makes for some very interesting streetscapes. I am behind this initiative 100%, and as Hali pointed out, even the vandalizing type of graffiti isn't gang related whatsoever. Its almost all done by induviduals simply leaving their mark.

[Hali87]

This stuff is simply hideous and immediately makes the city look like a gang warfare zone.

...to you, but not to 99% of my generation. You know, the ones who are just entering the workforce, choosing where to live, buying their first property, making efforts to support the local economy, etc. But I guess our tastes are trivial, and art is objective. You win.

[scooby074]

I saw that article when it first appeared and just shook my head. Essentially the property owners are being forced to give into blackmail. Deface your property with gang-related graffiti vandalism, or deface it with truly ugly graffiti-based "urban art" that is really just more of the same. It is of absolutely zero value.

I think I will investigate the market for teflon-based coatings that will allow this garbage to be easily washed off buildings. It would be the paint equivalent of those spike strips that are placed on ledges to keep pigeons from crapping on buildings. Sadly, even pigeon crap is better than this kind of crap.

:tup: I cant get into anything where the "artist's" medium is spray paint. Sorry, it screams "ghetto" to me and I think it's hideous.

As to "Teflon Paint"... There are many manufacturers. Krylon (no small amount of irony there) Sherwin Williams and Dumond are a few. Some are permanent while some require re-application after graffiti removal. Youtube has videos if you interested.. Easy peasy removal, just need a pressure washer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXNy2iD4QOw&feature=related

[someone123]

A few more details have come out about the Chickenburger and Mills redevelopments:

- Right now the intention is to proceed as soon as possible with a building on Queen Street that will replace the Chickenburger. The plan is for some of the Mills building tenants to move there.
- The Mills site will be developed as 2 or more buildings, presumably after the tenants can all move to Spring Garden Place and the new building.
- The DHX building (Starbucks, American Apparel) is not included in the development.

So far it is hard for me to interpret this as anything but positive for the area. Replacing the Chickenburger building and parking next door with a mixed-used building and space for major retail tenants will be a huge win for the area. It sounds like the plans will result in 3 buildings along the Spring Garden frontage (DHX and 2 Mills replacements) plus there is the Clyde site in behind. This won't have a large footprint like Park Lane.

It sounds like Mickey MacDonald paid just under $1.2M for the site and total costs were $1.3M, so the renovation cost a mere $100,000 and some of those parts can be reused in a new Chickenburger location. Not sure how much he made operating the Chickenburger for half a year but it doesn't sound like he has lost a lot and his profits from a new building could be much larger.

[Empire]

I think most people would expect to see innovative use/reuse of existing historic buildings on Spring Garden Rd. rather than replacing them with bland utility buildings such as Park lane, Cornwallis House and Spring Garden Place.

Once all of the historic buildings are replaced on Spring Garden Rd. it will be more like Robson St. .....bland but busy.

Google tour of Spring Garden Rd.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.644109,-63.572838&spn=0.007481,0.014677&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.644142,-63.572689&panoid=ihIhqgv8FCDM6O7OGf9U4Q&cbp=12,315,,0,0

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643758,-63.574212&spn=0.007481,0.014677&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.643721,-63.574348&panoid=hypa30xuJxOB_Drz_jwaUw&cbp=12,0,,0,0

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643575,-63.574877&spn=0.000031,0.014677&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.64355,-63.575003&panoid=eaXt4sxbQAOyCGHQbKwmKQ&cbp=12,300,,0,-2.92

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643498,-63.575263&spn=0.000031,0.014677&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.643521,-63.575129&panoid=cCPitDP9tW8i6s_2CNVINQ&cbp=12,332.58,,1,-0.66

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643363,-63.575821&spn=0.000004,0.001835&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.643284,-63.575967&panoid=KsMU1upDs7AdHT1LLTssJA&cbp=12,32.96,,0,0

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643115,-63.576789&spn=0.000004,0.001835&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.643146,-63.576664&panoid=b5wBVZ24N_SIvrHPIQB9TQ&cbp=12,109.84,,0,0

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.642893,-63.577631&spn=0.000004,0.001835&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.642834,-63.577857&panoid=16c41J0zBEHPIeQPeJU9Vg&cbp=12,295.55,,0,-1.12

[Dmajackson]

Rebuild to be done by March
November 26, 2012 - 8:41pm BY REMO ZACCAGNA BUSINESS REPORTER

A new Dartmouth apartment building that will replace one destroyed in a fire will be completed by March.

The four-storey, 69-unit building will include three two-storey attached townhouses fronting Portland Street, approximately mid-block between Maitland and Albert streets, with over 21,272 square feet and one level of underground parking.

It will replace a nine-unit building that was located 85 metres west of Five Corners that was ravaged by fire on Jan. 1, 2010. Given the amount of time since the fire, none of the former tenants will be moving into the new building, said Allan Silverman, principal at Harbourvista Apartments Ltd.

...

Read More: thechronicleherald.ca (http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/196661-rebuild-to-be-done-by-march)

(rzaccagna@herald.ca)

[fenwick16]

I think most people would expect to see innovative use/reuse of existing historic buildings on Spring Garden Rd. rather than replacing them with bland utility buildings such as Park lane, Cornwallis House and Spring Garden Place.

Spring Garden Place seems to be somewhat bland. But I was very impressed when I first saw and went into Park Lane (about 20 some years ago). I don't think that I have been in Cornwallis House but it looks good based on pictures on the internet.

Spring Garden Road is changing but it still Has the Lord Nelson Hotel and Public Gardens.

[someone123]

Once all of the historic buildings are replaced on Spring Garden Rd. it will be more like Robson St. .....bland but busy.

This is a little alarmist given the fact that we haven't even seen real plans for these developments yet. Some of the early renderings for the BMO Building showed that its facade would be preserved. It's easy to imagine a nice development for that block where a glass tower is built above the sandstone buildings and the brick rowhouses. The rear of the block has some parking and small buildings that could be built over.

You are also being very selective with your photos. The Spring Garden area used to be maybe 1/3 parking lots, and actually the main commercial strip hasn't changed much in about 20 years. I think the HMV block may now be the least attractive on the street and it is mostly small, older buildings.

[Keith P.]

...to you, but not to 99% of my generation. You know, the ones who are just entering the workforce, choosing where to live, buying their first property, making efforts to support the local economy, etc.

Once again, the term "clueless youth" is validated.

But I guess our tastes are trivial, and art is objective. You win.

There are only losers here, not winners. By defacing buildings without permission or under fear of same, this cannot be considered anything other than criminal vandalism. What's next, the art value of broken windows?

[eastcoastal]

For me, in this case, it's not a matter of expressing "currently relevant" (contemporary?) architectural style, it's a matter of holding on to at least a handful of the older, wooden architecture that give SGR a sense of place....

Who really knows what is currently relevant anyway?


...Replace them all with glass and steel and you might get a very modern feel for the street, but with nothing from the local vernacular, it would be less remarkable on say a national scale. ...

I don't know that Spring Garden is "remarkable" on a national scale. It sure would be nice if it were considered "pleasant" on a national scale.

It is pleasant... but only in short spurts. The street hasn't grown enough to be relevant beyond a very few contiguous blocks. Beyond those, there is a lot of nothingness before a person encounters anything else "nice" or "interesting." I think/hope we'll see the percentage of population on the peninsula, and near areas like Spring Garden, rise and boost the viability of the retail and service environment.

I do agree that replacing everything with glass and steel would be a poor idea. And I do miss the old shopfront of Mills. I think it had way more charm before. One would imagine that they could have addressed issues with condensation on the glass without having to re-imagine the building's street presence. It's so much more anonymous now.

[Empire]

You are also being very selective with your photos. The Spring Garden area used to be maybe 1/3 parking lots, and actually the main commercial strip hasn't changed much in about 20 years. I think the HMV block may now be the least attractive on the street and it is mostly small, older buildings.

I could add more like this:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.642317,-63.579718&spn=0.000004,0.00162&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&layer=c&cbll=44.642352,-63.579593&panoid=-W-B8UqxQ6ept7gVcYr0wA&cbp=12,25.55,,0,-1.12&z=19

[Hali87]

I don't know that Spring Garden is "remarkable" on a national scale. It sure would be nice if it were considered "pleasant" on a national scale.

I would consider it pleasant and most people I know who grew up outside Halifax and visited or moved there describe it as very pleasant. I guess what I mean is that as it is now, it is relatively well-known and doesn't really look like anything else in Canada (most major cities don't have the painted wooden houses and most places in the Maritimes don't have the modern/po-mo architecture). If we replace all of the painted wooden buildings with "something nicer" we'll certainly have lost a unique environment regardless of whether the new buildings are ultimately better. I'm not necessarily saying that all of the wooden buildings should be saved forever but I think these things should be given a lot of consideration when coming up with designs for redevelopment projects on Spring Garden.

[Hali87]

For those who might not have seen this in the Canada section, I'd urge you to check this out for yourself. All you need is a postal code:

http://www.environicsanalytics.ca/prizmc2_cluster_lookup.aspx

I looked up the last 3 places I've lived and all of them were alarmingly accurate. Assuming that most of the other ones are as well, it also gives an interesting new perspective on the types of people who choose to live in specific neighbourhoods and how these communities are likely to respond to development pressure.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Yeah, the reno was quite tacky. I don't actually know what it used to look like inside, just the street-level exterior, which used to be much better before MacDonald slapped some faux-stone from Home Hardware all over it. No accounting for taste.

But yeah, hopefully we can all agree that Chedrawe's looming idea to level the entire BMO block is a terrible, destructive, idea. That's a lynchpin location for the whole neighbourhood.

Ok, good, that wasn't just in my head with regards to Mills. Exterior is much more important to me than the interior.

The BMO block is nice... Why don't these guys focus on empty lots???

[Drybrain]

This is a little alarmist given the fact that we haven't even seen real plans for these developments yet. Some of the early renderings for the BMO Building showed that its facade would be preserved. It's easy to imagine a nice development for that block where a glass tower is built above the sandstone buildings and the brick rowhouses. The rear of the block has some parking and small buildings that could be built over.

There are renderings with a preserved facade? Is there a link online?

But still, facadism would be insufficient here (IMO). The setting and massing of the BMO building is part of the appeal, and the brick rowhouses are substantial too. Sometimes, from a city-building perspective, it's okay to just say "no" to a development. Usually I'd say, "Let's work with the developer and get something great." But this is already great.

I can't think of any other Canadian cities where so many developers with a general-contractor sensibility own so much property on main streets. The city needs a bit more vision in the development community--some property owners who understand the appeal and economic benefit of heritage. Example: In Toronto this year, a high-end furniture store opened up shop in a heritage building on Queen Street (http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/01/a_lesson_in_heritage_restoration_at_queen_bathurst/), which was formerly home to a rock club. They could easily have knocked down the building with little protest, since it was in a hideous state of disrepair. Instead, they carefully stripped off the layers of paint and grime and hired new craftspeople to recreate the old Victorian detailing and moldings.

Before: http://www.blogto.com/upload/2010/01/20100128-BigBop_exterior.jpg

After: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/72066644.jpg



If the country's biggest city can make two-storey heritage renovations work on its high-rent main streets, why can't we?

[rajoclock]

I saw this on ArchDaily and thought it was interesting:

Under the city’s rezoning proposal, to get the added density, the company would need to buy additional development rights from the city, with its payment going toward transportation improvements. It also would need to design a building deemed by the city to have an iconic design. While SL Green would clearly stand to benefit from the rezoning by being able to build a larger building, Marc Holliday, SL Green’s chief executive, told analysts on a conference call in July it was unclear how the zoning plan would affect the company’s timing for the tower.

Here's the rest: http://www.archdaily.com/298495/kohn-pedersen-fox-associates-to-design-giant-office-building-next-to-grand-central-terminal/

[FuzzyWuz]

(don't know who owns the building that Starbucks is in).

I think Halifax Film Company, Paul Donovan's company.

edit. Ok, DHX. Michael Donovan.

[Keith P.]

For those who might not have seen this in the Canada section, I'd urge you to check this out for yourself. All you need is a postal code:

http://www.environicsanalytics.ca/prizmc2_cluster_lookup.aspx


I'm "Money and Brains, Urban Elite".

Sounds about right. :haha:

[Keith P.]

But still, facadism would be insufficient here (IMO). The setting and massing of the BMO building is part of the appeal, and the brick rowhouses are substantial too. Sometimes, from a city-building perspective, it's okay to just say "no" to a development. Usually I'd say, "Let's work with the developer and get something great." But this is already great.


The building itself is a disaster though. I deal with several people who work there and they all say the building is a horrible place to work, full of compromises and with lots of issues. It would need a total gutting of the interior, right back to the bare walls, hugely expensive. It is nice on the outside but it wouldn't destroy me if it had to come down.

[Drybrain]

The building itself is a disaster though. I deal with several people who work there and they all say the building is a horrible place to work, full of compromises and with lots of issues. It would need a total gutting of the interior, right back to the bare walls, hugely expensive. It is nice on the outside but it wouldn't destroy me if it had to come down.

The BMO building? Well, I'm not sure I'll concede that it's so bad, (I'm not a structural engineer, but it doesn't give off a disaster-zone vibe, and the Victorians further down the block are pretty obviously in okay shape.) But even if it is in rough shape, then as one of the most substantive structures in the area, it's also one the most worth of a restoration. In the long haul, good restoration of a structure like this can be worth a lot more per square foot than a knock-down and rebuild. If developers don't respond to sentimental heritage concerns, there's a solid economic case for saving old buildings. At least the good ones.

Here's a trailer for movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jp6S4Thy8s) about a nightmarish renovation of a building in far worse shape than BMO could possibly be in, in a far worse neighbourhood. (It also deals with a lot of social issues around poverty and gentrification, but I'm strictly talking about the building here.) Anyone walking around that building ten years ago would've probably figured it was a write-off. But today, it looks like this (http://www.gladstonehotel.com/hotel/) and it hauls in bucketloads of money. It was also one of the pioneers in the neighbourhood, which is now a high-priced condo land (most of those condos having been built on infill lands).

[teddifax]

This is an article in Wednesday's Chronicle Herald

MacDonald eyes $60m downtown plan
6 hours ago
By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Mickey MacDonald says he has a $60-million plan for his properties in downtown Halifax. (PETER PARSONS / Staff)

.
Mickey MacDonald has an ambitious $60-million plan for downtown Halifax.

In addition to redeveloping buildings on Queen and Birmingham streets, which he announced late last week, the head of Micco Group plans to build between eight and 10 storeys above Spring Garden Road on the site now occupied by Mills.

“After everything is all said and done, I think the value is going to be around $60 million,” MacDonald said Tuesday. “Hopefully it’s going to be a great development.”

He is no stranger to building projects.

“I did a bunch of different little kids’ stuff before. I developed some subdivisions and things like that. But this will be our first big project.”

The L-shaped downtown development, which will include commercial space on the ground floor and apartments above, will be built in stages, MacDonald said.

“I’m thinking (it will probably take) four or five years.”

He couldn’t say exactly how many apartments will fit in the project, which requires approval from city hall.

“We should be able to get a couple of hundred anyway.”

The first construction should start in early spring, MacDonald said. That initial phase will likely take at least two years to build.

MacDonald wants the ground floors on all three properties to be connected so shoppers can walk from one to the next, but he said the residential portions likely won’t have the same connection.

The project will probably include two buildings, one on the Birmingham side and another on the Queen side, MacDonald said.

He announced the sale earlier this fall of Mills, a high-end women’s wear shop, to Lisa Gallivan, Deanne MacLeod and Candace Thomas — all lawyers at Stewart McKelvey — and Toronto physiotherapist Katharine Perry, who grew up in Amherst.

“Women’s clothing is something that I was never cut out for,” MacDonald said. “I did it just to kind of keep the brand alive and I think (this) was a good opportunity for some women who want to take it over. I think they’ll do a far better job than me.”

But the business isn’t moving out of its three-storey location on Spring Garden and Birmingham, which MacDonald bought in 2007, until the end of March.

In the interim, MacDonald’s plan includes tearing down MacDonald’s short-lived Queen Street Chickenburger, formerly a doctors office, which is only two storeys.

“We’ll have that down by the end of December.”

Later in the project, MacDonald aims to redevelop the two-storey building on Birmingham that is presently home to King’s Krown Company Ltd. barbershop and M Home furniture showroom. But he couldn’t say Tuesday when that might come down.

MacDonald said he has talked with several high-level Halifax developers, including Wadih Fares and Jim Spatz, about the project. But they likely won’t be the developer he partners with to build the towers and he has not picked an architect yet.

“I’m negotiating with a couple of developers,” MacDonald said. “Over the next few weeks, I think we’ll have a decision on who we’re going to go with.”

In terms of a name, MacDonald’s toying with something that plays on the history of Mills Brothers, which opened in 1919.

“I’m not sure. But I’m thinking of calling it The Mills.”

(clambie@herald.ca)

[someone123]

The BMO building? Well, I'm not sure I'll concede that it's so bad, (I'm not a structural engineer, but it doesn't give off a disaster-zone vibe, and the Victorians further down the block are pretty obviously in okay shape.) But even if it is in rough shape, then as one of the most substantive structures in the area, it's also one the most worth of a restoration.

One problem is that there's a disconnect between the public value of these properties and their private value to developers. A building may be "worth" a huge amount socially but worth little or nothing financially to an owner, particularly given the tax structure downtown.

It was also one of the pioneers in the neighbourhood, which is now a high-priced condo land (most of those condos having been built on infill lands).

The Gladstone Hotel was an interesting project and there are similar examples in Halifax, but successful cities and neighbourhoods need a balance between old and new buildings. The neighbourhoods around Queen Street West have tons and tons of condo construction. I don't think the condos in Toronto are ideal but without some of that construction (and decent transit, which Halifax does not have) I don't think the retail vibrancy along Queen would be possible. Bloor Street meanwhile is probably a bit closer to playing the role of Spring Garden in Toronto and is mostly new buildings.

I'd like to see Barrington mostly preserved, but I think selective preservation makes more sense along Spring Garden Road. BMO's worth keeping. The little wooden buildings are debatable. I'm also hoping that we see an extension of the busy retail areas outward. Instead of just redeveloping the same 6 block stretch over and over it would be nice to see intense commercial development stretch out to Robie or down Queen Street. For example, 5770 Spring Garden is an apartment tower with a big setback. It would be pretty straightforward to put a midrise residential building with some retail in front of it. Queen has enormous potential given all the development planned around Spring Garden Road and around Fenwick.

[eastcoastal]

For those who might not have seen this in the Canada section, I'd urge you to check this out for yourself. All you need is a postal code:

http://www.environicsanalytics.ca/prizmc2_cluster_lookup.aspx



Awesome.

[eastcoastal]

... I'm also hoping that we see an extension of the busy retail areas outward. Instead of just redeveloping the same 6 block stretch over and over it would be nice to see intense commercial development stretch out to Robie or down Queen Street. For example, 5770 Spring Garden is an apartment tower with a big setback. It would be pretty straightforward to put a midrise residential building with some retail in front of it. Queen has enormous potential given all the development planned around Spring Garden Road and around Fenwick.

Absolutely. I hope that an uptick in density results in an expansion of the retail and services offerings in the area. I'd love to feel like there are some contiguous stretches of interesting city rather than a couple patches spread out over an unremarkable stretch of suburban development masquerading as a city.

[Drybrain]

The Gladstone Hotel was an interesting project and there are similar examples in Halifax, but successful cities and neighbourhoods need a balance between old and new buildings. The neighbourhoods around Queen Street West have tons and tons of condo construction. I don't think the condos in Toronto are ideal but without some of that construction (and decent transit, which Halifax does not have)

No, the condos in Toronto aren't ideal, you're right—the city is overbuilding, the units are too small, and there's a lot of bad design.

But as far as an old/new building mix, Queen West (in the Gladstone's vicinity) is almost entirely preserved 19th-century buildings. Any developer who proposed knocking out a block or two would be run out of town. I think what you're saying about SGR being more like Bloor-Yorkville makes some sense, but on the other hand, Bloor through Yorkville is a pretty mediocre urban environment. If we're searching for a Toronto analogue for SGR, how about King East?

Anyway, a selective mix of old and new is perfectly all right--but if it were up to me, I'd select the BMO building (and the rest of the block) for full preservation. Mills is more debatable, depending on the quality of the proposed replacement.

[JET]

I think most people would expect to see innovative use/reuse of existing historic buildings on Spring Garden Rd. rather than replacing them with bland utility buildings such as Park lane, Cornwallis House and Spring Garden Place.

Once all of the historic buildings are replaced on Spring Garden Rd. it will be more like Robson St. .....bland but busy.

Google tour of Spring Garden Rd.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.644109,-63.572838&spn=0.007481,0.014677&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.644142,-63.572689&panoid=ihIhqgv8FCDM6O7OGf9U4Q&cbp=12,315,,0,0

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643758,-63.574212&spn=0.007481,0.014677&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.643721,-63.574348&panoid=hypa30xuJxOB_Drz_jwaUw&cbp=12,0,,0,0

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643575,-63.574877&spn=0.000031,0.014677&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.64355,-63.575003&panoid=eaXt4sxbQAOyCGHQbKwmKQ&cbp=12,300,,0,-2.92

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643498,-63.575263&spn=0.000031,0.014677&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.643521,-63.575129&panoid=cCPitDP9tW8i6s_2CNVINQ&cbp=12,332.58,,1,-0.66

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643363,-63.575821&spn=0.000004,0.001835&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.643284,-63.575967&panoid=KsMU1upDs7AdHT1LLTssJA&cbp=12,32.96,,0,0

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643115,-63.576789&spn=0.000004,0.001835&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.643146,-63.576664&panoid=b5wBVZ24N_SIvrHPIQB9TQ&cbp=12,109.84,,0,0

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.642893,-63.577631&spn=0.000004,0.001835&sll=44.004261,-62.918551&sspn=7.743311,15.029297&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=44.642834,-63.577857&panoid=16c41J0zBEHPIeQPeJU9Vg&cbp=12,295.55,,0,-1.12

don't forget the old victorian next to HMV

[Empire]

don't forget the old victorian next to HMV

You bet...she's a beauty and would make a great King St. West type of exclusive boutique. How long will it be before it's ripped down?

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643002,-63.577216&spn=0.000015,0.00648&sll=51.013117,-114.088499&sspn=0.670466,0.829468&t=h&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&z=17&layer=c&cbll=44.642977,-63.577311&panoid=q96qGFrw9F4hS54yNWuWbw&cbp=12,330.33,,1,-9.46

[JET]

You bet...she's a beauty and would make a great King St. West type of exclusive boutique. How long will it be before it's ripped down?

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=dartmouth&hl=en&ll=44.643002,-63.577216&spn=0.000015,0.00648&sll=51.013117,-114.088499&sspn=0.670466,0.829468&t=h&hnear=Dartmouth,+Halifax+Regional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&z=17&layer=c&cbll=44.642977,-63.577311&panoid=q96qGFrw9F4hS54yNWuWbw&cbp=12,330.33,,1,-9.46

it's one of the few victorian residences still remaining in the area. I keep hoping that someone will use it and maintain it; the longer it is empty the less optimistic I remain.

[worldlyhaligonian]

it's one of the few victorian residences still remaining in the area. I keep hoping that someone will use it and maintain it; the longer it is empty the less optimistic I remain.

It should be relocated IMO. The Chickenburger on the otherhand is a complete eyesore and it will be good to see pics of this area when the sister sites go up and the library is complete.

I really hope the BMO block never happens... that would be the real shame. Brick and mortar in Halifax is much more valuable that woodframe styles that will always exist in the more residential areas. Gives that part of SGR character with all the monumental buildings further to the east.

[bluenoser]

Is it me or did Google recently update its street view in NS? Regardless of when this took place, I'm happy to see that most of HRM appears in the summer (~May-July 2012) instead of Google's original installment in ugly late winter 2009.

[scooby074]

Is it me or did Google recently update its street view in NS? Regardless of when this took place, I'm happy to see that most of HRM appears in the summer (~May-July 2012) instead of Google's original installment in ugly late winter 2009.

Yes I believe they did update this summer.

I saw the Google cars in several places this summer. I am a bit suprised that the updated images have gone online already, it was late summer when I saw them.

Go Google!!:notacrook:

[scooby074]

This could (should) be happening in Halifax again:

"Thousands pour into Ikea Winnipeg on opening day"

http://thumbnails.cbc.ca/maven_legacy/thumbnails/156/304/mb-ikeafirst-112812_620x350_2310324899.jpg

"More than 2,000 people flowed into the Ikea store as the doors opened at 9 a.m. A total of more than 20,000 people are expected to pass through the store on opening day."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/11/28/mb-ikea-opening-winnipeg.html

[cormiermax]

CBC seemed to think Sask would be Ikea's next Canadian target...

Though it was a news segment based out of Vancouver.

[Haligonian88]

Is it me or did Google recently update its street view in NS? Regardless of when this took place, I'm happy to see that most of HRM appears in the summer (~May-July 2012) instead of Google's original installment in ugly late winter 2009.

It may have been a regional update.

Here in Fredericton, UNB finally made it on to street view today for the first time. Took a surprisingly long time. Fortunately they did a pretty thorough job, even getting paths not open to vehicular traffic and the parking lots too.

[terrynorthend]

Yes I believe they did update this summer.

I saw the Google cars in several places this summer. I am a bit suprised that the updated images have gone online already, it was late summer when I saw them.

Go Google!!:notacrook:

Awesome. The car passed me back in the summer, and I made the cut!! Although partly obscured by a stopsign post..

Moi. (https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=44.649849,-63.584232&spn=0.016212,0.042272&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=44.649919,-63.584327&panoid=VxbdDgSHK3yq-TX4_Qe27A&cbp=12,158.72,,2,5.36)

[fenwick16]

Awesome. The car passed me back in the summer, and I made the cut!! Although partly obscured by a stopsign post..

Moi. (https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=44.649849,-63.584232&spn=0.016212,0.042272&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=44.649919,-63.584327&panoid=VxbdDgSHK3yq-TX4_Qe27A&cbp=12,158.72,,2,5.36)

Interesting. I wonder how Google manages to blur people's faces; is there software that does it automatically?

[terrynorthend]

Interesting. I wonder how Google manages to blur people's faces; is there software that does it automatically?

I believe they use face recognition software for that. I noticed that my coffee cup's logo is blurred out too... that's a trickier proposition for software I would think.

[resetcbu1]

When it comes to deterring graffiti I think the best methods are found on North Street. The law offices at Windsor installed flower boxes which seemed to do the trick (and made the corner a lot more attractive), and the FRED building at Agricola has a wicked mural facing the alley.

Personally I think some forms of graffiti look great but not when they are facing public roads. In alleys they fit in well but on the front of buildings flower boxes and innovate facade designs seem to work and look a lot better.

As a former graffiti ARTIST I can tell you that there are many different types of graf artists ...... The abstract message writers , taggers(vandals) and real artists who's medium is graffiti and then there is the blend of all of them! most of these other than the pure taggers will have enough respect for other art forms to not deface it or destroy it so that is the best deterent and works well to save face on nice property.... but I LOVE back alley graffiti or on bridges or overpass or anything like that , I find it adds character to a city :yes:

[Hali87]

As a former graffiti ARTIST I can tell you that there are many different types of graf artists ...... The abstract message writers , taggers(vandals) and real artists who's medium is graffiti and then there is the blend of all of them! most of these other than the pure taggers will have enough respect for other art forms to not deface it or destroy it so that is the best deterent and works well to save face on nice property.... but I LOVE back alley graffiti or on bridges or overpass or anything like that , I find it adds character to a city :yes:

It's art for a new generation; using technology that, not very long ago, wasn't available (spray paint) and using the city itself as a canvas. It's very postmodern. Which is probably why a lot of older people don't get it - they are the "modern" generation, and everything that has come after them is trivial at best and unacceptable at worst.

[scooby074]

Interesting. I wonder how Google manages to blur people's faces; is there software that does it automatically?

Yep software based. Pretty impressive when you think about it (reflections, off angle shots). I believe they blur license plates too.

[Keith P.]

As a former graffiti VANDAL

Fixed it for you. Vandals deface property without permission, artists do not.

I LOVE back alley graffiti or on bridges or overpass or anything like that , I find it adds character to a city :yes:

Yes, it tells you that the city is overrun with vandals and gangs, and does not have the character to enforce its laws and ensure that property owners do not have to face the risk of devaluation and damage from unlawful activity.

[RyeJay]

It's art for a new generation; using technology that, not very long ago, wasn't available (spray paint) and using the city itself as a canvas. It's very postmodern. Which is probably why a lot of older people don't get it - they are the "modern" generation, and everything that has come after them is trivial at best and unacceptable at worst.

:haha:

[RyeJay]

Fixed it for you. Vandals deface property without permission, artists do not.

Then you have no understanding of art history.

[RyeJay]

As a former graffiti ARTIST I can tell you that there are many different types of graf artists ...... The abstract message writers , taggers(vandals) and real artists who's medium is graffiti and then there is the blend of all of them! most of these other than the pure taggers will have enough respect for other art forms to not deface it or destroy it so that is the best deterent and works well to save face on nice property.... but I LOVE back alley graffiti or on bridges or overpass or anything like that , I find it adds character to a city :yes:

I've seen some very worn down areas of cities and towns that were brought back to life with graffiti. I enjoy the art when it isn't vandalism. There are urban communities in the U.S., for instance, that open areas up for graffiti artists to basically go ta town and paint away!

For Halifax, it would be nice if the commons had more bare slabs from old buildings for artists to paint. In the winter, the graffiti would essentially be the only colour on the peninsula ;)

[Wishblade]

Fixed it for you. Vandals deface property without permission, artists do not.



Yes, it tells you that the city is overrun with vandals and gangs, and does not have the character to enforce its laws and ensure that property owners do not have to face the risk of devaluation and damage from unlawful activity.

Keith, all your doing is showing us that your part of that "older" generation that as Hali said, just doesn't get it. This art form is catching on to the point where Halifax now has an annual festival partially dedicated to it called the Hopscotch festival.

[JET]

Keith, all your doing is showing us that your part of that "older" generation that as Hali said, just doesn't get it. This art form is catching on to the point where Halifax now has an annual festival partially dedicated to it called the Hopscotch festival.

While I at times don't agree with Keith, he does rather consistently show us that he can spell; probably comes with being older.

[RyeJay]

While I at times don't agree with Keith, he does rather consistently show us that he can spell; probably comes with being older.

...or he at least knows how to use a dictionary. ;)

[Hali87]

Fixed it for you. Vandals deface property without permission, artists do not.


So what do you call it when the property owners permit, nay, COMMISSION the "vandals" to alter the appearance of their property? And in this hypothetical example, the property owner does so of his/her own accord, not because he's afraid that his family will be kidnapped and tortured by the aerosol mafia.

[Hali87]

While I at times don't agree with Keith, he does rather consistently show us that he can spell; probably comes with being older.

In all fairness, if you take a closer look at that quote, it's still gramatically correct.

Edit, just realized it's not. But almost.

[Wishblade]

While I at times don't agree with Keith, he does rather consistently show us that he can spell; probably comes with being older.

I didn't realize this discussion was regarding grammar/spelling. forgive me for being mistaken. :rolleyes:

[Keith P.]

So what do you call it when the property owners permit, nay, COMMISSION the "vandals" to alter the appearance of their property?

Blackmail?

Extortion?

The old protection racket?

Take your pick. They are all variations on the same theme.

[Keith P.]

Then you have no understanding of art history.

You have no idea what I do or do not have an understanding of, punk.

[Keith P.]

Keith, all your doing is showing us that your part of that "older" generation that as Hali said, just doesn't get it. This art form is catching on to the point where Halifax now has an annual festival partially dedicated to it called the Hopscotch festival.

I have never hidden the fact that I am not a clueless youth.

I get it - it is a violation of basic social mores in a civilized society to willfully deface someone else's property. Always has been, always will be. Violate that social contract and I have every right to knock said artist's block off with a Louisville Slugger if I catch him in the act. Artistic license be damned. You simply do not do that.

As for the goddamn Hopscotch festival, it is a prime example of the decline of society and how our clueless, inept HRM Council pisses away property tax dollars on things most citizens would not support in the name of political correctness. It should be the first thing to be slashed, but never will be.

[Hali87]

Blackmail?

Extortion?

The old protection racket?

Take your pick. They are all variations on the same theme.

I think your response would have been much more interesting and useful if you had not ignored the caveat that ruled out blackmail, extortion, etc. I understand that you could never for the life of you understand why some property owners would WANT this "garbage" on their property, but the fact is that some of them legitimately do like it. You don't have to believe me, but it's the truth.

I get it - it is a violation of basic social mores in a civilized society to willfully deface someone else's property. Always has been, always will be. Violate that social contract and I have every right to knock said artist's block off with a Louisville Slugger if I catch him in the act. Artistic license be damned. You simply do not do that.

As for the goddamn Hopscotch festival, it is a prime example of the decline of society and how our clueless, inept HRM Council pisses away property tax dollars on things most citizens would not support in the name of political correctness. It should be the first thing to be slashed, but never will be.

What you refer to as "the decline of society" could be just as accurately described as a simple paradigm shift. Yes. Graffiti art has its roots in vandalism. I will not claim anything to the contrary. However, it has evolved into a legitimate art form in which the vast majority of artists ARE respectful of property rights and do not "deface" property without the owner's permission, unless the property itself is clearly unused (the "pit" that used to exist where the Vic parking lot now is was one such example). I can say with confidence that it is "a legitimate art form", because society's definition of what constitutes a legitimate art form has changed over time. If your definition hasn't changed, then I can understand why you have such a big problem with this. But to speak in absolute terms like "it's categorically not art" and "it is vandalism and gang-related in all cases" is not accurate. This is like saying all highrises are ugly and any building over 70 years old is historically significant. You also refer to it categorically as "willfully defacing property"; while in some cases I would say that it's a definite improvement to the property. Because you categorically hate graffiti art, I already know your answer to this question, but to the rest of the people on this forum, would you say that the MacKay-Lyons Sweetapple offices on Gottingen looked better before, or after the mural?

Also, could you define "block" as used in the above? If you meant "head" then no, I'm pretty sure you do not have the right to do that.

[resetcbu1]

I've seen some very worn down areas of cities and towns that were brought back to life with graffiti. I enjoy the art when it isn't vandalism. There are urban communities in the U.S., for instance, that open areas up for graffiti artists to basically go ta town and paint away!

For Halifax, it would be nice if the commons had more bare slabs from old buildings for artists to paint. In the winter, the graffiti would essentially be the only colour on the peninsula ;)

there are cities all around the world including halifax that have legal walls to paint some are owned by cities some donated by the property owners the later being the case in HRM ..... where VIC stands was the "Wall of Fame" and a few warehouses in Dartmoth cove...... Alot of back alley ART was put up without permission but remained because it was well done and the owner apreciated it ...... so to each his own :cheers:

[resetcbu1]

I have never hidden the fact that I am not a clueless youth.

I get it - it is a violation of basic social mores in a civilized society to willfully deface someone else's property. Always has been, always will be. Violate that social contract and I have every right to knock said artist's block off with a Louisville Slugger if I catch him in the act. Artistic license be damned. You simply do not do that.
As for the goddamn Hopscotch festival, it is a prime example of the decline of society and how our clueless, inept HRM Council pisses away property tax dollars on things most citizens would not support in the name of political correctness. It should be the first thing to be slashed, but never will be.

WOW and the "Vandal" is the gangster , criminal and example of the decline of society ?????? maybe read your own dribble first for answears to what is wrong with the world today ..... by the way You'd better be Babe Ruth with that bat ..... just sayin' :koko: :notacrook:

If you don't like it... I couldn't give one never the less two shits cause I do enjoy it and your opinion will never sway mine !

[musicman]

I see keith has hijacked another thread... If you do not agree with him you are wrong and he is right. There is no grey area. And there is no swaying his "Royal Correctness" from what he thinks. (Read the library thread for some doosies of sheer entertainment value) Everybody can have an opinion as long as it is in line with his...
By the way love the "sanctioned" murals and such, used to love going into montreal on the train seeing beautiful artwork all the way in to downtown. Pity that we do not have more of it here..

[someone123]

Please take the graffiti discussion here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=5919581

Also, comments that are too personal in nature or have overt personal attacks directed at another forumer will be deleted.