General Updates and News [Archive] - Page 92

jacob.ritchie

Dec 3, 2018, 9:13 AM

You are correct. There is an axis from Chebucto Landing (by the Ferry Terminal, with the clock) up George Street and through Grand Parade to Argyle that needs consideration (and partnership with PNS, and $). This was always in the Captial District plan ... the connection from Grand Parade to Spring Garden Road (via Grafton/Argyle) would help stitch together our major public spaces in the Downtown (Victoria Park, Public Gardens, Public Library, Grand Parade, Waterfront, Ferry Terminal) as well as provide a means to connect to the great peninsula (Commons, Young Avenue, Point Pleasant Park).

jacob.ritchie

Dec 3, 2018, 9:17 AM

The cul-de-sac is actually a wharf that was built to provide fire and emergency access to the new ferry terminal when it was built in the eighties ... everything below that concrete - right from where the "bulb" starts - is a steel/concrete wharf deck. Its pretty cool under there ... but it wasn't designed for people/pedestrians/waterfront activity, it was designed for car access.

Bad urban design:

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6488088,-63.575646,3a,90y,238.07h,96.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srnQKw6Lx76D662ruIxMyMw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This end of Argyle needs a do-over too. Eventually, this quasi-pedestrian area should connect down through the Grand Parade to the Province House area and onto the waterfront via George Street. The Dockyard Clock area needs an overhaul too.

The little cul-de-sac is pointless. Why not make this a place for people to spend time rather than park their vehicles (go park at the other end that is half surface lots) or spin around when they are lost? The urban realm here is ugly and there is nothing to draw visitors up from the waterfront: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6494283,-63.5715199,3a,90y,217.79h,101.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG1nFXkgPBHwD7HpDLOtwOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

OldDartmouthMark

Dec 3, 2018, 6:05 PM

The cul-de-sac is actually a wharf that was built to provide fire and emergency access to the new ferry terminal when it was built in the eighties ... everything below that concrete - right from where the "bulb" starts - is a steel/concrete wharf deck. Its pretty cool under there ... but it wasn't designed for people/pedestrians/waterfront activity, it was designed for car access.

I believe the cul-de-sac would have been a continuation of the drop-off point for ferry passengers. IIRC, when the new ferry terminal was built the waterfront hadn't developed as a tourist site to the point that it is today, so it made sense to keep it open to car access for that function. I assume they would continue to keep it available not only for fire access, but for such things as Access-A-Bus as well.

It's still a nice spot, and whether one agrees with the impromptu motorcycle show that seems to develop on summer evenings or not, I haven't seen the existence of the cu-de-sac as a problem.

someone123

Dec 4, 2018, 4:17 AM

It's still a nice spot, and whether one agrees with the impromptu motorcycle show that seems to develop on summer evenings or not, I haven't seen the existence of the cu-de-sac as a problem.

The question I would ask isn't whether or not it's nice (though I think that's debatable), it's whether the city is getting the most mileage out of one of its prime sites.

Here's a concept for the site from Breakhouse:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/1941103/WDCL-Urban-Suite-Proposal

There were a few different designs like this. I wonder if they were shelved because of Queen's Marque?

Keith P.

Dec 4, 2018, 12:17 PM

I fail to see how putting a building there adds anything to the public space. It essentially wipes it out.

IanWatson

Dec 4, 2018, 12:51 PM

Waterfront Development (sorry, Develop NS) has looked at that space before. My guess is if they do anything it'll be after Queen's Marque is done so it could be done in conjunction with the space between Queen's Marque and the NS Crystal building.

OldDartmouthMark

Dec 4, 2018, 5:10 PM

The question I would ask isn't whether or not it's nice (though I think that's debatable), it's whether the city is getting the most mileage out of one of its prime sites.

Here's a concept for the site from Breakhouse:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/1941103/WDCL-Urban-Suite-Proposal

There were a few different designs like this. I wonder if they were shelved because of Queen's Marque?

I actually don't like that proposal, as appears that it would make the area feel somewhat cluttered or a little claustrophobic, especially once Queen's Marque is in place.

It's also not clear what the function of that building would be - is it office space? Residential? How does it improve the enjoyment of the area for the public?

I honestly feel it's beneficial to leave some open spaces around the waterfront, and to actually allow some spaces where people can see the harbour when they are not just at the water's edge.

IMHO not every open space needs to have a building on it...

jacob.ritchie

Dec 4, 2018, 5:37 PM

Thats just one image though ... there were three full proposals that were solicited ... they were presented at the AGNS ... one from Ekistics (Rob Leblanc), one from WHW (John Crace), and that Breakhouse one ... which was a Breakhouse/TEAL collabo ... they were all on the WDCL owned parcel (NS Crystal) and didn't stretch over to the Chebucto Landing PID.

I actually don't like that proposal, as appears that it would make the area feel somewhat cluttered or a little claustrophobic, especially once Queen's Marque is in place.

It's also not clear what the function of that building would be - is it office space? Residential? How does it improve the enjoyment of the area for the public?

I honestly feel it's beneficial to leave some open spaces around the waterfront, and to actually allow some spaces where people can see the harbour when they are not just at the water's edge.

IMHO not every open space needs to have a building on it...

jacob.ritchie

Dec 4, 2018, 5:39 PM

... which means no impact on the public space available ... as they shared the footprint of the NS Crystal building PID(s) ...

it was a conceptual effort ... not fully fleshed out buildings or proformas ... the WHW proposal had quite a lot of water opened up .. the Breakhouse / TEAL one had a strawberry field on the roof ...

Thats just one image though ... there were three full proposals that were solicited ... they were presented at the AGNS ... one from Ekistics (Rob Leblanc), one from WHW (John Crace), and that Breakhouse one ... which was a Breakhouse/TEAL collabo ... they were all on the WDCL owned parcel (NS Crystal) and didn't stretch over to the Chebucto Landing PID.

someone123

Dec 4, 2018, 5:50 PM

My point wasn't really that there would be more or less space. It's just interesting to see what ideas people came up with.

They kinda put the aggregate concrete cul-de-sac and strange postmodern clock tower into perspective. Hopefully one day the law courts and old ferry terminal will be replaced and something more ambitious can be done with the area.

OldDartmouthMark

Dec 4, 2018, 7:32 PM

Thanks for the perspective. The details weren't abundantly clear to me, but in fairness I rushed through the document and took it in context of replacing the cul-de-sac with another building. Perhaps if I had studied it properly that might have been more obvious.

I don't disagree with the concept, but I still think it's important to maintain some kind of access to the ferry terminal, especially for those who are mobility-restricted. Not to mention access for fire fighting equipment.

And I will always agree that the best thing that could be done with that area of the waterfront would be to replace the law courts building at least, with something better. I don't think that the ferry terminal is such a bad building, in fact I think it would seem much better if there were some space on the west side (i.e. current law courts building removed) to alleviate the concrete corridor feeling that exists now.

someone123

Dec 5, 2018, 3:19 AM

A rendering for the performing arts facility:

https://images.thestar.com/hdMo-gUS6PGrup0Dk2R3AttlvYE=/1200x679/smart/filters:cb(1543589845702)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/halifax/2018/11/29/proposed-performing-arts-facility-could-bring-big-name-concerts-but-would-cost-halifax-taxpayers-1-million/a.jpg
More information: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/11/29/proposed-performing-arts-facility-could-bring-big-name-concerts-but-would-cost-halifax-taxpayers-1-million.html

Looks like essentially the same urban design flaws of the current building but rendered in a more modern style.

Keith P.

Dec 5, 2018, 1:53 PM

That is a building that should be gutted or knocked down. Such a bad design, as is typical of govt building projects.

jacob.ritchie

Dec 5, 2018, 2:41 PM

This renovation proposal reminds me of when MT&T renovated the WOLCO at Scotia Square ... they added that piece that juts out above the entrance at NW corner of Duke/Barrington

A rendering for the performing arts facility:

https://images.thestar.com/hdMo-gUS6PGrup0Dk2R3AttlvYE=/1200x679/smart/filters:cb(1543589845702)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/halifax/2018/11/29/proposed-performing-arts-facility-could-bring-big-name-concerts-but-would-cost-halifax-taxpayers-1-million/a.jpg
More information: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/11/29/proposed-performing-arts-facility-could-bring-big-name-concerts-but-would-cost-halifax-taxpayers-1-million.html

Looks like essentially the same urban design flaws of the current building but rendered in a more modern style.

HalifaxRetales

Dec 5, 2018, 6:05 PM

The "Bell Lofts" on Wentworth is now the Tel Lofts
http://tellofts.com/

hokus83

Dec 5, 2018, 7:38 PM

ns_kid

Dec 6, 2018, 1:28 PM

I didn't realize that, according to the rendering, part of the city's $1 million contribution will apparently go to leveling the former Homburg Building and Citadel Hill. Nice work!

Keith P.

Dec 6, 2018, 7:29 PM

I don't think anything can make this building not awful looking

And the worst part is that it combines bad exterior design with a horrible interior functional design. The more one considers the many problems, the more sense it makes to gut or demolish the thing.

OldDartmouthMark

Dec 6, 2018, 7:33 PM

I didn't realize that, according to the rendering, part of the city's $1 million contribution will apparently go to leveling the former Homburg Building and Citadel Hill. Nice work!

Looks like the Prince George and all of the streetside light poles will be gone as well!

Big project! ;)

someone123

Dec 6, 2018, 9:16 PM

Apparently the ground breaking for Harbour Isle towers 2 and 3 happened recently.

DigitalNinja

Dec 8, 2018, 4:36 PM

Dmajackson

Dec 8, 2018, 8:36 PM

I assume this would be the Seapoint and the yellow future development tower as inicated on the website:

http://thehazelton.ca/neighborhood/

Looks like there is also another commercial building confirmed "ML One Ltd" No idea what that is.

Drove by last night and there is construction equipment on site for the two buildings on the northern end of the site.

ML One Ltd is short for Magazine Landing (http://www.kwcommercialhalifax.com/site_data/kwcommercialhalifax/property_docs/doc_9767.pdf). It is a three storey commercial development for the Pita Pit / Starbucks parking lot.

someone123

Dec 11, 2018, 4:57 AM

$10M of federal and provincial funding has been announced for the cultural space in the former convention centre: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2018/12/10/funding-unveiled-for-new-13-million-arts-centre-in-downtown-halifax.html

Seems pretty likely to happen now.

This also seems like one of those projects where the city is being asked to kick in a little bit of money ($1M) as part of a much larger overall investment ($13M).

OldDartmouthMark

Dec 12, 2018, 4:11 PM

kph06

Dec 13, 2018, 1:45 AM

A new 6 story building is going up on Prince Street in downtown Dartmouth.

I hear the crane went up today, Alderney Hearing had a photo yesterday on instagram:

Alderney Hearing (https://www.instagram.com/p/BrP3U7iBlNb/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet)

kph06

Dec 13, 2018, 1:54 AM

Tim Rissesco had a photo on twitter:

Tim Rissesco (https://twitter.com/Dartmouth_Tim/status/1072911803544428545)

Looks like a new to Halifax Crane. It looks to be remotely operated, no cab at the boom.

Keith P.

Dec 13, 2018, 1:45 PM

Seems like a good deal for the city - a $13M project for $1.3M of investment.

Not such a good deal for taxpayers who are footing almost the entire bill for a very fringe project that few will use.

OldDartmouthMark

Dec 13, 2018, 5:25 PM

Not such a good deal for taxpayers who are footing almost the entire bill for a very fringe project that few will use.

A general statement with no data to back it up.

Everybody benefits from the arts. Even people who have no interest in the arts benefit through living in a society with more depth.

People who attend movies, concerts, dance performances and theatrical events are hardly considered the "fringe", nor are the people who perform or produce such events for that matter.

"Few will use" is a meaningless statement with zero research or fact to back it up. How do you know how many will use it?

I'm an average citizen who is not involved with the arts community but I will attend a concert or other event there if they interest me, and I will gladly pay money to attend. Based on that, I will also happily allow the infinitesimal portion of my federal and provincial taxes paid in to help fund it. The city gets in for 10¢ on the dollar, so that seems like a good deal for the great majority of us in the city who attend entertainment events.

As a financial/business person, I don't know why you would be against this as I'm sure you are aware that the tax dollars that you give to the feds regularly fund expensive projects in other parts of the country that you will see no benefit from. Why not have some of that federal money that the current government is splashing around, actually come to Halifax??

Keith P.

Dec 13, 2018, 7:57 PM

A general statement with no data to back it up.

Everybody benefits from the arts. Even people who have no interest in the arts benefit through living in a society with more depth.

People who attend movies, concerts, dance performances and theatrical events are hardly considered the "fringe", nor are the people who perform or produce such events for that matter.

"Few will use" is a meaningless statement with zero research or fact to back it up. How do you know how many will use it?

I'm an average citizen who is not involved with the arts community but I will attend a concert or other event there if they interest me, and I will gladly pay money to attend. Based on that, I will also happily allow the infinitesimal portion of my federal and provincial taxes paid in to help fund it. The city gets in for 10¢ on the dollar, so that seems like a good deal for the great majority of us in the city who attend entertainment events.

As a financial/business person, I don't know why you would be against this as I'm sure you are aware that the tax dollars that you give to the feds regularly fund expensive projects in other parts of the country that you will see no benefit from. Why not have some of that federal money that the current government is splashing around, actually come to Halifax??

To start with, "few will use" is no more meaningless than "everybody benefits from the arts". Ask the person on social assistance or one whose kids are going hungry how the arts benefits them.

Let's be clear, this is a gift to Armco and George Armoyan. He took the WTCC building off the province's hands. This is them kicking some of that back to him. As for the fed contribution, ask Andy Fillmore, as he seems to be the kingmaker here.

The arts are very much a creature of govt these days. The only way most performing artists make a living is via govt funding of some sort or another. They almost never pay their own way because if something becomes too popular, it is no longer considered "art" and is looked down upon by the arts community as pop culture entertainment.

As for being grateful for a few federal crumbs, this province has been going broke for years chasing 33- or 50-cent dollars dangled in front of us by the feds. That syndrome has led to lots of unnecessary projects being pursued. This is just the latest example.

JET

Dec 13, 2018, 8:03 PM

MonctonRad

Dec 13, 2018, 8:07 PM

As for being grateful for a few federal crumbs, this province has been going broke for years chasing 33- or 50-cent dollars dangled in front of us by the feds. That syndrome has led to lots of unnecessary projects being pursued. This is just the latest example.

Very true.

The feds love trotting out their 50% contributions to local projects, but what happens when the province can't afford their 50% portion of the cost???

The classic example right now is the $130M boondoggle of the Francophonie Games in Moncton/Dieppe (where the cost has suddenly inflated from $17M).

Dominic LeBlanc is trying to take the moral high ground, extolling the fact the feds would pitch in 50% ($65M), but this would still mean the province would also have to contribute $65M. This at a time when Premier Higgs is lopping off $250M in infrastructure spending promised by former Premier Gallant in order to balance the books.

LeBlanc's righteous cries for NB to "take ownership of their responsibility" to the games sounds pretty hollow right now. :hell:

I think NB should follow the lead of Halifax on this project and cancel them, just like Halifax did with the Commonwealth Games.

For an impoverished province, 50% is still a lot of money...........

OldDartmouthMark

Dec 13, 2018, 8:41 PM

To start with, "few will use" is no more meaningless than "everybody benefits from the arts".

Not even close to being the same thing. Yours is a prediction that is impossible to prove, mine is a statement that you can observe daily, just ask someone what their favorite song or movie is... you will almost always get an answer - that is a very simple sign that people in society are benefiting from the arts - it goes much deeper than that but no point in explaining. "Few will use" is wishful thinking on your part, but has no basis.

Ask the person on social assistance or one whose kids are going hungry how the arts benefits them.

That's kind of a foolish statement. Ask those same people about any money that the government spends that does not directly put food on their table and a roof over their heads and you will get the same answer. "Hey, would you rather that the city buys up houses to widen Chebucto Road or uses that money to give your family more money for food?"... how do you think they would answer?

Let's be clear, this is a gift to Armco and George Armoyan. He took the WTCC building off the province's hands. This is them kicking some of that back to him. As for the fed contribution, ask Andy Fillmore, as he seems to be the kingmaker here.

Really? Got a source for that?

The arts are very much a creature of govt these days. The only way most performing artists make a living is via govt funding of some sort or another. They almost never pay their own way because if something becomes too popular, it is no longer considered "art" and is looked down upon by the arts community as pop culture entertainment.

Which performing artists are you talking about that get all that government funding? There are a lot of bands that would like a piece of that pie...

As for being grateful for a few federal crumbs, this province has been going broke for years chasing 33- or 50-cent dollars dangled in front of us by the feds. That syndrome has led to lots of unnecessary projects being pursued. This is just the latest example.

I won't argue that you don't have a point here. Can you state some examples?

someone123

Dec 13, 2018, 8:44 PM

For an impoverished province, 50% is still a lot of money...........

One thing to keep in mind that is different about government projects is that governments may recover a large portion of their spending through taxes. This could be 5-50%. It's also possible for projects to generate economic growth. The government might ultimately collect 150% of the cost of a really good project in the long run (probably not so much for sports but I bet some public health initiatives and the like have paid off by huge multiples.. I am thinking of programs like polio vaccination).

Government spending isn't really a budgeting exercise. It is more like an optimization problem with a bunch of feedback loops. You want to speed up the economy by spending, so you can get more money and spend more, but while keeping priorities in order (environment, quality of life). Most household budgets are different in that they have fairly fixed income.

I don't know what the specifics are for these games in NB but "we are paying 50%" is an incomplete picture.

My impression in NS is that the province is generally too conservative when it comes to investing in infrastructure in the city. It's unclear that if these projects get killed government spending goes down. There is always somebody lobbying for provincial dollars. We are spending more and more of our money on entitlements that probably aren't growing the economy much.

MonctonRad

Dec 13, 2018, 8:56 PM

:previous:

I know what you are trying to say, and I agree with you in part, but at least as far as the Francophonie Games are concerned, this is a one time event, with very little legacy infrastructure spending. It's not like the IAAF track & field championships that gave Moncton the sports stadium we have at UdeM. There will be no long term benefit to holding these games.

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread....... :)

OldDartmouthMark

Dec 13, 2018, 9:06 PM

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread....... :)

Hey, I didn't think it was possible to hijack a 'general' thread! ;)

kph06

Dec 14, 2018, 1:28 AM

Where on Prince Street?

This lot (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6646456,-63.5670102,3a,75y,227.6h,82.2t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s2Ovrm9-D0FzTYYExQZETqw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D2Ovrm9-D0FzTYYExQZETqw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D326.5369%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!5m1!1e1)

pblaauw

Dec 14, 2018, 5:49 AM

To start with, "few will use" is no more meaningless than "everybody benefits from the arts". Ask the person on social assistance or one whose kids are going hungry how the arts benefits them.

Art lifts my spirit. As someone with a physical disability, as well as moderate depression and (occasionally quite severe) anxiety, I appreciate the ability to spend a few bucks now and then, to go to a museum or art gallery, or *gasp* a library (a pet favourite of yours, I know). It's also a much more productive way to spend a few hours out of the cold (I have little to no feeling below my knees and very poor circulation below my right knee.), instead of loafing about at the mall or McDonald's.

Of course, we could all go back to the 60s, when people like me were institutionalised. I bet you'd like that. :D:koko::notacrook::runaway:

Keith P.

Dec 14, 2018, 12:10 PM

Art lifts my spirit. As someone with a physical disability, as well as moderate depression and (occasionally quite severe) anxiety, I appreciate the ability to spend a few bucks now and then, to go to a museum or art gallery, or *gasp* a library (a pet favourite of yours, I know). It's also a much more productive way to spend a few hours out of the cold (I have little to no feeling below my knees and very poor circulation below my right knee.), instead of loafing about at the mall or McDonald's.

Of course, we could all go back to the 60s, when people like me were institutionalised. I bet you'd like that. :D:koko::notacrook::runaway:

I'll ignore your last comment rather than report it.

You wouldn't be able to use this new place. The performance hall is only for standees, no seats. Therefore unless it is some raver indie band with an audience of sub-25 year-olds most people would not want to attend. Most of the rest is for artsy types to use in their creative endeavors - think of a Khyber clubhouse on steroids.

It is not something with broad appeal and few members of the public will ever set foot inside.

Constantly wasting money on things like this is why govt never has enough money to spend on services and facilities for people like you who really could use those things to improve their lives.

Colin May

Dec 14, 2018, 1:03 PM

It is part of the 2019 federal Liberal re-election campaign. Similar small cost project announcements are taking place across the country. Quite a smart strategy, lots of local press coverage of announcements by a local MP and cements support in the groups who would usually lean Liberal or NDP and also serves as a reminder that a vote for the NDP is a wasted voted or a dangerous vote which could lead to a Tory win.

IanWatson

Dec 14, 2018, 1:20 PM

The biggest problems I see with $0.50 dollars are on infrastructure that local governments end up owning, because those come with maintenance and replacement costs down the road. I'm talking things like roads and sewers. In the 70s the feds threw around a lot of $0.50 dollars for sewers in small communities and many of them got built in areas with a questionable need. And guess what, here we are 50 years on (about the average lifespan for a sewer) and small communities all over Atlantic Canada are facing extreme financial strain from the liability of replacing these sewers. It's not the up-front cost of infrastructure that's expensive, it's maintenance. But maintenance isn't sexy so there are never any dollars for that.

However, that's not the case here. As a municipality, we're getting $0.10 dollars and no responsibility to maintain it. And it may be the case that it's a backdoor handout to Armco, but it does make use of a useless building downtown, and provides the public with a much needed facility.

JET

Dec 14, 2018, 2:02 PM

This lot (https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6646456,-63.5670102,3a,75y,227.6h,82.2t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s2Ovrm9-D0FzTYYExQZETqw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D2Ovrm9-D0FzTYYExQZETqw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D326.5369%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!5m1!1e1)

Thanks, that is a waste of space.

JET

Dec 14, 2018, 2:14 PM

"Originally Posted by Keith P.
Ask the person on social assistance or one whose kids are going hungry how the arts benefits them."

Do my eyes deceive me, or is Keith expressing concern for people on Income Assistance? It's a Christmas miracle. :)

someone123

Dec 14, 2018, 5:03 PM

"Originally Posted by Keith P.
Ask the person on social assistance or one whose kids are going hungry how the arts benefits them."

There are kids going hungry in the world but is that really a common situation within HRM's mandate. Are there kids in the city whose parents would give them enough food but somehow can't obtain it through government assistance or the food bank?

My personal experience is that the poor kids are rarely on this level, but can be lacking social and cultural programs (or daycare-like stuff so the parents can work, or a way to get the kids to and from extracurricular activities), a step or two up the hierarchy of needs.

JET

Dec 14, 2018, 5:10 PM

Keith P.

Dec 14, 2018, 6:13 PM

There are kids going hungry in the world but is that really a common situation within HRM's mandate. Are there kids in the city whose parents would give them enough food but somehow can't obtain it through government assistance or the food bank?

My personal experience is that the poor kids are rarely on this level, but can be lacking social and cultural programs (or daycare-like stuff so the parents can work, or a way to get the kids to and from extracurricular activities), a step or two up the hierarchy of needs.

Doesn't matter that it isn't a municipal level responsibility. If it was, HRM could afford to spend 10s of millions of dollars on it given how they are flush with cash. The issue is the millions the province - laundered through two different organizations, one of which (Invest NS) I never even heard of before - is doling out to the artsy types. With a provincial budget that is badly overcommitted, it is an issue of priorities. This would be far, far down that list.

@Jet, believe it or not, I am very sympathetic to the plight of the poor. I have seen kids who go hungry and have very little chance in this world and it is heartbreaking. I have great issue with how the province manages doling out what it provides - that bureaucracy is hopeless and needs to be blown up - and there would undoubtedly be much in the way of savings that can be redirected to those in true need. I have no sympathy for layabouts who prefer to sit at home and smoke weed or even worse drugs all day long while on the dole, but for those whose circumstances are beyond their control I do indeed think govt needs to do much better. Diverting funds from them to things like this grates on me.

JET

Dec 14, 2018, 7:10 PM

"..I have no sympathy for layabouts who prefer to sit at home and smoke weed or even worse drugs all day long while on the dole,.."
Good to see things back to normal

Keith P.

Dec 14, 2018, 8:25 PM

"..I have no sympathy for layabouts who prefer to sit at home and smoke weed or even worse drugs all day long while on the dole,.."
Good to see things back to normal

So that is something you support?

someone123

Dec 15, 2018, 2:04 AM

Looks like the scaffolding just came down from the St. Paul's Building:

https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/5c8a0ad4e67a84037fce8a03e1765ac0/5CB0ECE4/t51.2885-15/e35/46315699_212096719728957_463213827345070767_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com
Source (https://www.instagram.com/p/BrYW2c5H9Y6/)

pblaauw

Dec 15, 2018, 5:02 AM

You wouldn't be able to use this new place. The performance hall is only for standees, no seats. Therefore unless it is some raver indie band with an audience of sub-25 year-olds most people would not want to attend. Most of the rest is for artsy types to use in their creative endeavors - think of a Khyber clubhouse on steroids.

It is not something with broad appeal and few members of the public will ever set foot inside.

Constantly wasting money on things like this is why govt never has enough money to spend on services and facilities for people like you who really could use those things to improve their lives.

A) I'm in a wheelchair. Standing-room-only isn't an issue. :shrug: (Yes, it would be an issue for people who can't stand for long periods of time, but that's part of why I'm in a chair.)

B) Patronage and lining the pockets of people who already have too much money is why we can't afford nice things. End handouts to businesses who have no intention of sticking around after the handouts are gone, and stop giving money to people who can easily afford to pay for something on their own. ( https://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2016/09/01/how-billionaire-john-risley-profits-off-of-private-student-loans )

Keith P.

Dec 15, 2018, 1:08 PM

B) Patronage and lining the pockets of people who already have too much money is why we can't afford nice things. End handouts to businesses who have no intention of sticking around after the handouts are gone, and stop giving money to people who can easily afford to pay for something on their own. ( https://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2016/09/01/how-billionaire-john-risley-profits-off-of-private-student-loans )

While using articles from the Coast is never something that would credibly back up any argument one chooses to make, you are quite right on business handouts. That is what this is. I fully expect that the proponents have set this up to ensure they will pocket nice 6-figure salaries for a few years until the money runs out, then vanish into the ether.

Spire

Dec 15, 2018, 7:01 PM

Fantastic news! Glad to see this project going forward...now the pressure's on them to actually deliver on everyone's expectations.

You wouldn't be able to use this new place. The performance hall is only for standees, no seats. Therefore unless it is some raver indie band with an audience of sub-25 year-olds most people would not want to attend. Most of the rest is for artsy types to use in their creative endeavors - think of a Khyber clubhouse on steroids.

As far as I can tell from the plans, the performance hall will have seats in the round, in a stadium seating configuration that can fold into the wall, a la Alderney Landing. The space can also be sub-divided in half for smaller performances. Way less than 1800 seats, for sure, but it's meant to be a space for all kinds of performances, not just Pop Explosion-type concerts. It certainly seems like the media have latched on to this 1800-seat figure, and it could create unrealistic expectations when the place opens...this is definitely no Rebecca Cohn replacement.

I don't often care much for the Chronicle Herald, but they had a good editorial the other day about this project:

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/editorials/editorial-fledgling-arts-centre-promising-268165/

That is what this is. I fully expect that the proponents have set this up to ensure they will pocket nice 6-figure salaries for a few years until the money runs out, then vanish into the ether.

Rob Power and Marc Almon are two pretty highly regarded figures in the local industry scene, and have been for years. They're not some fly-by-night operation. I mean, sure, I suppose they could take off to Cuba and never be heard from again, same as any of us, but the arts community is close-knit, and word travels fast...

But the proof will be in the execution, and I have questions, for sure. Will the spaces actually work as well as they're intended to, or will the end result in too many compromises? But it's following a model that has worked for similar venues in other cities, and has brought opportunities for aspiring performers and yes, economic activity to those places.

spaustin

Dec 16, 2018, 2:21 AM

Thanks, that is a waste of space.

It's going to be a 5 storey apartment building. An as-of-right development by Urching Properties.

eastcoastal

Dec 17, 2018, 3:34 PM

Fantastic news! Glad to see this project going forward...now the pressure's on them to actually deliver on everyone's expectations.... But the proof will be in the execution, and I have questions, for sure. Will the spaces actually work as well as they're intended to, or will the end result in too many compromises? But it's following a model that has worked for similar venues in other cities, and has brought opportunities for aspiring performers and yes, economic activity to those places.

There are some good animation studios and other tv film production companies here, no? If I understand the business incubator part of this, the plan is to provide space to start-ups, where they can co-locate and hopefully benefit from some synergies, while having some established businesses pay market rate rent in order to co-locate and access some of the same synergies, while providing some form of mentorship.

I think it's a cool idea.

I'm hopeful.

And, good lord this edge of Grand Parade needs a bit of help - hopefully this will result in a more lively street and a better companion to what should be a significant civic space.

Jonovision

Dec 23, 2018, 5:01 PM

It's going to be a 5 storey apartment building. An as-of-right development by Urching Properties.

Any renderings or design detail for the project?

someone123

Jan 4, 2019, 3:45 AM

Keith P.

Jan 4, 2019, 12:03 PM

IanWatson

Jan 4, 2019, 1:31 PM

That's a way better improvement than what I was expecting. That existing building is complicated and the street grades are all over the place. It's impressive that the architects were able to work with that and add a full wall of commercial frontages on Argyle. The Duke Street frontage is definitely improved too.

It looks like the new parking spaces are on the second and third floor and are accessed with a new door on Carmichael. I'm not familiar with the inside of that building though so I don't know what those spaces were before.

OldDartmouthMark

Jan 4, 2019, 2:48 PM

Something along the lines of polishing a t*rd, but a small improvement.

I wonder what spaces are being used to provide 127 parking spaces? The nether regions of that building are a bit of a mystery. I suppose there were large areas there for the old convention center kitchens, storage, etc.

They do not mention how the existing internal walkway along Argyle that connects the pedways will be relocated.

Drawing A-100 shows a public corridor in behind the retail spaces. On the drawing you can follow it along from the escalator that comes up from the SS tunnel to the "lobby", where there is access to an exit or the elevators.

I'm assuming there will still be access to the Prince George tunnel, but it's unclear to me whether the corridor will still exist that allows you to access the Scotiabank Centre from the elevators.

Keith P.

Jan 5, 2019, 12:32 PM

I never understood why they made access to the arena so difficult from the pedway. It was something that cried out for a set of escalators up to the arena entry gates.

OldDartmouthMark

Jan 6, 2019, 5:53 PM

I never understood why they made access to the arena so difficult from the pedway. It was something that cried out for a set of escalators up to the arena entry gates.

Yes, I agree with that. It was never really well marked either. I pretty much found it by accident attending the "Briar Patch" (or similar) during some curling events. I finally figured out I could get from the Purdy's wharf parking complex right up into the Metro... errrr... Scotiabank Centre through the tunnels and pedways without ever stepping a foot outside - this came in handy during some really bad weather.

There were escalators inside the building, but I believe this was closed off to the public and only available to people attending events in the convention centre.

alps

Jan 10, 2019, 6:12 AM

I'm impressed. Hopefully this will enliven that dead section of Argyle Street. The Duke Street side looks much improved too.

I just wish the proposal included a canopy over the sidewalk on Argyle.

Hali87

Jan 11, 2019, 2:26 AM

That does seem like an odd omission but it also seems that it's not required or even really encouraged here (based on the design rationale, I don't remember the finer details of HRMbyDesign offhand)

Jonovision

Jan 25, 2019, 4:25 PM

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4858/32997462918_c0639dff7e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/SgSC7s)20190123_161533 (https://flic.kr/p/SgSC7s) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4868/45958442785_b78831104b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2d2c2Sz)20190123_161732 (https://flic.kr/p/2d2c2Sz) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

OldDartmouthMark

Jan 25, 2019, 7:06 PM

someone123

Jan 26, 2019, 7:03 AM

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/7894/UdFoyL.jpg
Source (https://www.instagram.com/p/BtCbrT-H015/)

Keith P.

Jan 26, 2019, 2:14 PM

Hmmm... I don't know what to say. It's refreshingly different yet somehow kind of strange looking. But in fairness it's quite a ways from being finished.

I do hope they plan to remove the external cable conduit from the Bell/Aliant building, though.

Really curious as to how it will look when it's done.

I wonder what sort of thinking drove the decision to have such a sharply sloped roof. I know they call it "lofts" but there does not seem to be any habitable space up there judging from the lack of windows.

OldDartmouthMark

Jan 27, 2019, 1:15 AM

I wonder what sort of thinking drove the decision to have such a sharply sloped roof. I know they call it "lofts" but there does not seem to be any habitable space up there judging from the lack of windows.

Yes, that's part of what drove my thought process... and the proportions of the tall section. The strange arrangement of windows is kind of whimsical though.

Will be interesting to see how it turns out.

IanWatson

Jan 28, 2019, 2:14 PM

I wonder what sort of thinking drove the decision to have such a sharply sloped roof. I know they call it "lofts" but there does not seem to be any habitable space up there judging from the lack of windows.

Yeah, pretty sure there is no habitable space in there. From what I recall when the structure was going up, that whole volume is basically a dense network of trusses.

If I had to guess, the definition of "height" in DT Dartmouth doesn't include that space, so they added it without losing any saleable area. It wouldn't cost that much more to add that space, and it definitely makes the building stand out.

eastcoastal

Jan 28, 2019, 2:46 PM

Here's a rendering for some more modifications to the former WTCC:

https://imageshack.com/a/img921/8066/SxVwwl.png

There's more information about this proposal here: https://www.halifax.ca/city-hall/boards-committees-commissions/january-10-2019-design-review-committee

It will include 6 new commercial spaces along Argyle.

I read in AllNovaScotia that the Armoyan Group is courting Passport Canada for much of the retail space along Argyle.

Probably appealing to the Armoyans because they don't have to court several smaller tenants and I assume that there'd be a fairly long lease on space for Passport Canada.

I realize it's better than nothing (the current state), but I can't help feeling this would be a loss for the street life that COULD be... retail surrounding a significant civic square should be activated as much as possible... I just feel like bureaucratic offices aren't the highest and best use (they seem fine inside a high-rise office tower like the current situation).

OldDartmouthMark

Jan 28, 2019, 4:32 PM

I agree. That sounds like a terrible waste of that streetfront. I was hoping it would help to liven it up where it's kind of a dead area currently, but this would not contribute to that.

OldDartmouthMark

Jan 28, 2019, 4:33 PM

Yeah, pretty sure there is no habitable space in there. From what I recall when the structure was going up, that whole volume is basically a dense network of trusses.

If I had to guess, the definition of "height" in DT Dartmouth doesn't include that space, so they added it without losing any saleable area. It wouldn't cost that much more to add that space, and it definitely makes the building stand out.

At least the snow should just slide right off of it...

IanWatson

Jan 28, 2019, 5:25 PM

Passport Canada and the Atlantic Lottery Corp in the Nova Centre. Greaaaaaat use of our newly-pedestrianized street.

Keith P.

Jan 28, 2019, 8:42 PM

Simply evidence of the over-dependence upon govt spending that exists in Halifax. The private sector plays second fiddle.

OldDartmouthMark

Jan 28, 2019, 10:32 PM

Simply evidence of the over-dependence upon govt spending that exists in Halifax. The private sector plays second fiddle.

I think government contracts are the low-hanging fruit. They will pay top dollar and commit for many years. Easy guaranteed money for the developer.

IanWatson

Jan 29, 2019, 1:20 PM

I think government contracts are the low-hanging fruit. They will pay top dollar and commit for many years. Easy guaranteed money for the developer.

Yeah and you know you're not going to have to evict them or have them stiff you on the rent.

I don't really blame Armco for wanting them as a tenant, but damn it's a poor use of Argyle Street. Honestly, it blows my mind that Argyle isn't designated as a "pedestrian-oriented commercial street" in the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-law. This seems like a huge oversight.

OldDartmouthMark

Jan 29, 2019, 3:45 PM

Yeah and you know you're not going to have to evict them or have them stiff you on the rent.

I don't really blame Armco for wanting them as a tenant, but damn it's a poor use of Argyle Street. Honestly, it blows my mind that Argyle isn't designated as a "pedestrian-oriented commercial street" in the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-law. This seems like a huge oversight.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Keith P.

Jan 29, 2019, 5:22 PM

I don't really blame Armco for wanting them as a tenant, but damn it's a poor use of Argyle Street. Honestly, it blows my mind that Argyle isn't designated as a "pedestrian-oriented commercial street" in the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-law. This seems like a huge oversight.

This sort of thing is where the planner's idealistic visions run head-on into reality. While they may desire to have that part of Argyle to be a "commercial street" they cannot force businesses to risk their own money on something that is at best speculative. What kind of commercial enterprise did they foresee I wonder? More bars? The bar business is hardly one that is growing. Restaurants possibly, but those have a high failure rate. Retail? Unlikely in that spot. The planner's ideal of cafes and boutiques at street level is not always realistic, and for the latter at least, becoming even less likely in today's world of online shopping.

someone123

Jan 29, 2019, 6:26 PM

I do wish that government agencies would take the health of the city into account a little more when choosing where to locate. Putting Access NS out in the suburbs and offices in the ground floor of that building at Barrington and Prince is the opposite of this.

But there are going to be some bland government uses in less-than-perfect areas. The important thing is that Argyle is set up nicely to continue to evolve over time. There's nothing permanent or particularly harmful about having a passport office in the old WTCC. Maybe in 10 years if the city grows more there will be enough demand for that stretch to be packed with restaurants and bars too.

IanWatson

Jan 30, 2019, 2:01 PM

they cannot force businesses to risk their own money on something that is at best speculative.

They can't force a restaurant or retail to go in there, but they can (well, could have if the rules had been updated in time) force Armco to not put a use there that prevents retail or a restaurant.

Make no mistake, if retail and restaurant/bar was all that was allowed to go there, that space would fill up. It's prime downtown space.

stevencourchene

Jan 31, 2019, 2:31 PM

lots are wondering what is happening and going in where they are blasting at 9 otter Lake Court Bayers Lake?

hoping its not just more heated storage units.

thanks in advance.

maxchristie

Feb 1, 2019, 2:49 AM

Looks like a facelift is coming for Quinpool tower.
Windows are already being installed on the east side. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5910a08fcd0f684a29658158/5a144602652deae1b1367a0d/5a301452652dea38239ee628/1513100390861/4-QTE.png?format=750w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5910a08fcd0f684a29658158/5a144602652deae1b1367a0d/5a3014509140b731554dfec4/1513100397339/3-QTE.png?format=750w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5910a08fcd0f684a29658158/5a144602652deae1b1367a0d/https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5910a08fcd0f684a29658158/5a144602652deae1b1367a0d/5a301448ec212dd576339fd3/1513100383627/2-QTE.png?format=1000w/1513100390861/4-QTE.png?format=750w
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5910a08fcd0f684a29658158/5a144602652deae1b1367a0d/5a3014480d9297e3b10a64d9/1513100382634/1-QTE.png?format=1000w

teddifax

Feb 1, 2019, 3:44 AM

So glad as that has to be one of, if not the ugliest, buildings in Halifax...

Jstaleness

Feb 1, 2019, 5:09 PM

This could turn out really bad. Not to be a typical negative thinker but I'm just not sure of the material and contrast of color.

someone123

Feb 1, 2019, 5:35 PM

Keith P.

Feb 1, 2019, 5:48 PM

If memory serves, Quinpool was clad with dark brown corrugated metal so it's not like there is much good to lose.

I think most concrete cladding is pretty long-lived. But I do recall The Welsford on Robie had a problem with theirs. The decorative vertical ribs on the concrete panels began cracking and pieces falling to the ground. They eventually went though a long process of inspecting and chipping off all the suspect bits, which left quite an interesting-looking finish afterwards.

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 1, 2019, 5:51 PM

One thing I wonder about is whether or not Halifax will be left with much in the way of 60's/70's concrete highrises in a decade or two. Going back 10 or 20 years they were one of if not the most common styles (a lot of highrises had brick too).

Is exposed concrete just bad in terms of maintenance? If you have some kind of cladding you can swap it out every 30 years when it wears out.

Just from my personal observations, it seems to stain and look dirty after a few years, not unlike sandstone which also starts to look dirty and gritty if left untouched. IMHO, if concrete buildings had regular maintenance for appearance (like pressure washing, etc.), some of them could look quite good, yet still 'dated'.

The cladding thing is probably a bid to make them look more 'modern' and to cut down on maintenance costs (a guess). I don't see it as being much different from the Victorians that were sided over to save having to paint them and replace shingles over time. Probably in 50 years time there will be a move to remove 2000's siding and restore that 1970s concrete look... :2cents:

sk8tr

Feb 1, 2019, 6:06 PM

I think most concrete cladding is pretty long-lived. But I do recall The Welsford on Robie had a problem with theirs. The decorative vertical ribs on the concrete panels began cracking and pieces falling to the ground. They eventually went though a long process of inspecting and chipping off all the suspect bits, which left quite an interesting-looking finish afterwards.

I agree with Keith that the irregular vertical pattern on The Welsford is rather interesting. Actually, I quite like it, and I thought they did it on purpose until I learned differently on this forum.

beyeas

Feb 1, 2019, 7:13 PM

The work on that irregular pattern cladding has already begun (in fact it started a while ago). I actually think it looks pretty good... or maybe at least in juxtaposition to the old cladding!

terrynorthend

Feb 2, 2019, 2:39 PM

The work on that irregular pattern cladding has already begun (in fact it started a while ago). I actually think it looks pretty good... or maybe at least in juxtaposition to the old cladding!

It has. I think it is done on the west side already. Noticed it a couple of weeks ago heading into Canadian Tire. Looks decent.

bluenoser

Feb 5, 2019, 4:51 AM

Nothing new to anyone here, but this is always an interesting exercise anyway. Also, it's nice (and possible) for CBC to take a more positive look at development in the city.

Halifax, you've changed: 10 years of Google Street View
Images collected over the past decade reveal the city's transformation
Blair Sanderson · CBC News
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-google-street-view-10-years-decade-1.4998429

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4998438.1548856548!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/halifax-library-google-street-view.jpg

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4999169.1548876858!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/king-s-wharf.jpg

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4999401.1548882398!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/convention-centre.jpg

I had forgotten that only 10 years ago this area (as well as Larry Uteck at the 102) was basically just woods.
https://i.cbc.ca/1.4998778.1548867503!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/washmill-lake-underpass.jpg

pblaauw

Feb 5, 2019, 6:22 AM

I don't feel like underpass-replacing-forest should count.

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 13, 2019, 3:00 PM

A couple of interesting news stories this morning:

Nova Scotia wants to make Halifax's harbour islands visitor-friendly (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-harbour-mcnabs-georges-parks-canada-strategy-1.5016432)

They are among the most viewed but least visited islands in the Halifax region — and the provincial government wants to change that.

It is blowing the dust off a 13½-year-old management plan for McNabs Island and working with Parks Canada to ensure a 2009 management plan for Georges Island meshes with Nova Scotia's desire to make it easier to visit and enjoy both spots.

"There are cities around the world [that] would look at these assets and drool," said Peter Bigalow, Develop Nova Scotia's director of planning and development and one of the key players in this latest attempt to properly exploit the potential of McNabs and Georges.

"They are fantastic and there is a real desire of the public to get out to them."

As an initial investment, the province has promised $1.5 million to build the necessary docks or wharves and for facilities such as washrooms, water stations and shelters.

And...

Coming soon to the Oxford: A craft beer taproom, brewery (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/oxford-halifax-taproom-garrison-brewing-1.5016270)

Garrison Brewing plans to open a taproom and small brewery this spring in part of the complex that housed the beloved Oxford Theatre on Quinpool Road in Halifax.

Fittingly, the taproom will be called The Oxford and it will feature 16 taps of suds and cider, a retail store, backyard terrace and community space.

Nahas thinks The Oxford will be a fitting addition for the community.

"There's a void for this type of business on Quinpool Road," said Nahas. "Quinpool Road is one of the most eclectic and diverse business streets in the entire province, and this kind of this element wasn't there and I think he's going to fill that void.

"And I think it will be embraced by local Haligonians and it's going to help complement other businesses in the area as well."

Nahas said he expects to make an announcement before the end of the month about the plans for the space that formerly housed the theatre.

Design work for the Garrison space is ongoing and construction work is expected to begin shortly.

The taproom will serve suds brewed at Garrison's downtown location, as well as experimental, small batches of beer crafted at the Quinpool Road space.

Keith P.

Feb 13, 2019, 3:15 PM

I thought there was some sort of bizarre spot zoning on Quinpool that prohibited drinking establishments?

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 13, 2019, 6:14 PM

I thought there was some sort of bizarre spot zoning on Quinpool that prohibited drinking establishments?

I haven't heard of this. I recall there used to be a lounge at the old Hogie's restaurant (the Kickapoo lounge? Or something like that...) on Quinpool, though.

terrynorthend

Feb 13, 2019, 8:01 PM

I haven't heard of this. I recall there used to be a lounge at the old Hogie's restaurant (the Kickapoo lounge? Or something like that...) on Quinpool, though.

Yes, Keith is correct. Freeman's and Hogies (now ATHENS) were grandfathered in and allowed to dedicate a portion of their spaces to lounge/bar use. Hence the odd curtains and rules about having to order food on the one side of Freeman's.

Not sure how this figures with the Garrison proposal. Maybe the rules changed recently?

OldDartmouthMark

Feb 13, 2019, 9:04 PM

Yes, Keith is correct. Freeman's and Hogies (now ATHENS) were grandfathered in and allowed to dedicate a portion of their spaces to lounge/bar use. Hence the odd curtains and rules about having to order food on the one side of Freeman's.

Not sure how this figures with the Garrison proposal. Maybe the rules changed recently?

Interesting. Thanks guys. Was Quinpool the only part of Halifax inflicted with such rules?

I seem to recall other establishments requiring you to order food to be able to buy a beer, but my impression was that this was a byproduct of the antiquated NS liquor laws dictating what establishments could sell booze and how they could do it (i.e. restaurants couldn't sell booze without food).

Or are you saying that the only way they could have a lounge/bar on Quinpool was to fall under the same rule set as a restaurant?

sk8tr

Feb 13, 2019, 10:52 PM

I wonder if the spot zoning on Quinpool ended at Oxford Street.

terrynorthend

Feb 15, 2019, 8:06 AM

It was specific to Quinpool, not sure who was driving the rules but no "bars" where patrons could order only booze were allowed, only restaurants where food was required with drinks. Three establishments that already had lounge licenses (along with their restaurants) were grandfathered in. Freeman's, what is now Athens, and what is now Atlantica Hotel. Council relaxed the rules 2 years ago, allowing all restaurants on Quinpool to serve up to two drinks per patron without food.

Interesting take on Oxford maybe demarking the district. This possibility just came up in conversation with friends last night. You could well be correct.