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colemonkee
Mar 19, 2021, 11:41 PM
"The podium will be clad with a grid of off-white glass fiber reinforced concrete described in planning documents as a ‘linen’ color with medium bronze-tone metal accents. Off-white metal panels, matching with the podium, will be used on the tower."

The white panels with the bronze-tone metal accents sounds promising.

woahjoey
Mar 23, 2021, 6:34 AM
Photos from my boyfriend's walk 03/22/2021:

Station entrance at 4th and Folsom
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51064405133_d611c52a54_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kNoqAa)

4th and Brannan stop
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51065112301_4a3310eb80_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kNs3NH)

Jerry of San Fran
Mar 25, 2021, 4:44 AM
Muni Station 4th & Brannon - the underground work is almost complete. Trains will be tested for several months before passenger service will be allowed. I call it the train to nowhere (many will disagree with me). It will be interesting to see if the Chinese Americans utilize this service or continue to use the 30 Stockton bus. I would have liked to have seen it continued on a few more blocks.

timbad
Mar 25, 2021, 11:45 PM
Muni Station 4th & Brannon... I would have liked to have seen it continued on a few more blocks.

they are working on that (https://www.sfmta.com/projects/central-subway-extension), Jerry

they held a survey last year, and these were the results to the question of where people wanted stops (beyond North Beach, which is a given)

https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/imce-images/2020/Blog_Photos/where_would_you_like_to_see_new_subway_stations.jpg

AndrewK
Mar 26, 2021, 1:37 AM
I call it the train to nowhere (many will disagree with me).

My in-laws live on Russian Hill, and while I don’t think it will be worth it to take the train to Market, we will definitely take it to Giants games the times that we depart from their house. Obviously a Washington Square Park station would have been ideal, but that may still happen eventually, as Timbad points out.

timbad
Mar 26, 2021, 8:37 PM
in the Chron (https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/Stonestown-Galleria-could-trade-parking-for-16053703.php#photo-20788096), a proposal to make over Stonestown Mall

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/17/23/16/20788096/5/2300x0.jpg

San Francisco’s Stonestown Galleria, a suburban-style mall surrounded by 30 acres of surface parking lots, would be transformed into a neighborhood with nearly 3,000 housing units, 6 acres of green spaces and a new 20th Avenue that would become a “main street” lined with shops and residential buildings, according to a plan unveiled Thursday.

The vision, presented in a pair of neighborhood meetings on Thursday, is the first step in a planning process that will take about two years, according to Brookfield Properties, the owner.

As envisioned, the new Stonestown site, which is 42 acres with parking covering 30 of them, will have 2,900 units in 15 residential buildings. The tallest structures — three 18-story and one 14-story — will be clustered near San Francisco State University, on the southern end of the property. The majority of the buildings will be 5 to 8 stories, with some 3-story townhomes in the northwest quarter of the property, closest to Rolph Nicol Playground and homes along Eucalyptus Drive.

The heart of the redeveloped mall will be 20th Avenue, which will run along the current mall’s front door. The east side of 20th Avenue will be lined with residential buildings — about 1,500 units — and smaller retail and restaurant spaces. Across the street will be the entrance of the existing mall, which is currently being revived with a new Whole Foods, a Sports Basement, a Regal movie theater and an expanded Target. ...

overall, parking reduced from 3500 spaces to 2500

craigs
Mar 26, 2021, 8:55 PM
The city is looking into undergrounding Muni Metro along that stretch of 19th Avenue, so adding residential at Stonestown (in addition to the Parkmerced densification plans) would make a lot of sense.

BobbyMucho
Mar 27, 2021, 1:56 AM
My in-laws live on Russian Hill, and while I don’t think it will be worth it to take the train to Market, we will definitely take it to Giants games the times that we depart from their house. Obviously a Washington Square Park station would have been ideal, but that may still happen eventually, as Timbad points out.

The Giants games, Warriors, and dozens of concert or special events we'll see pop off in coming years.

Not to mention another ~6k units of housing along the shoreline in and around Dogpatch, Pier 70, Power Plant, and the backside of Potrero all planned or approved.

There will be plenty of reasons to take that train and even more so if it (one day) connects to the Wharf.

Jerry of San Fran
Mar 30, 2021, 2:08 AM
316 Turk - more steel going up today.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51013601295_a07633d79a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kHU3nV)361 Turk, San Francisco (https://flic.kr/p/2kHU3nV)

homebucket
Mar 30, 2021, 3:07 AM
The Giants games, Warriors, and dozens of concert or special events we'll see pop off in coming years.

Not to mention another ~6k units of housing along the shoreline in and around Dogpatch, Pier 70, Power Plant, and the backside of Potrero all planned or approved.

There will be plenty of reasons to take that train and even more so if it (one day) connects to the Wharf.

Once COVID is settled down and everything is back up and running, Mission Bay/Dogpatch is going to explode. Rincon Hill is going to look like a sleepy bedroom community in comparison.

Pedestrian
Mar 30, 2021, 6:22 AM
more steel going up today.
361 Turk, San Francisco[/url]

https://d2kcmk0r62r1qk.cloudfront.net/imageSponsors/xlarge/2015_03_25_11_49_34_361turk_rendering.jpg

https://d2kcmk0r62r1qk.cloudfront.net/imageSponsors/xlarge/2015_11_10_11_59_06_361turk_rendering.jpg

TL 361 is a new apartment development by Forge Land Company LLC currently under construction at 361 Turk Street, San Francisco. TL 361 has a total of 240 units. Sizes range from 250 to 450 square feet. [It is] strategically located and designed to address the workforce housing gap in a central San Francisco location . . . . features 3,000 SF of retail . . . .
https://www.buzzbuzzhome.com/us/tl-361#image-All-1

As an aside, I once had a close call with death right in front of where this building is being built. I was walking up Turk St, back from Union Square in the later evening, and I noticed there was a group of teens in front of the corner of the old YMCA building next to where this building is going up. I walked past them and got almost to the corner when I heard "pop-pop-poppoppop" from behind me--about 12 gunshots. I looked around and several of the kids were lying on the sidewalk. And before I could react, more cop cars than I knew existed in SF began descending on the scene. Someone had pulled a drive-by. I don't have any clue to this day what it was about but I assume "gang-related" as they say.

rajaxson
Mar 30, 2021, 6:08 PM
My in-laws live on Russian Hill, and while I don’t think it will be worth it to take the train to Market, we will definitely take it to Giants games the times that we depart from their house. Obviously a Washington Square Park station would have been ideal, but that may still happen eventually, as Timbad points out.

I agree, a Washington Square Park Station would be great. I work near that area and live just over the hill on the lower end Russian Hill and would definitely walk over to use that station to connect over to the Mission or Castro. Especially since the Van Ness BRT seems like it will also take forever to finish.

Ideally I would love to see it turn, cross the BRT line and run West towards Cow Hollow and the Marina. And of course an underground branch that runs down Geary into the Richmond. But seems like a pipe dream, with current projections and dedicated funding/political will.

Pedestrian
Mar 30, 2021, 7:39 PM
^^These are all ideas which have been proposed and seem likely to happen some day but not soon.

As you may know, there's already an abandoned tunnel under Ft. Mason:

Fort Mason Tunnel is an abandoned single-track railway tunnel in San Francisco. It was built in 1914 to bypass Fort Mason. The east portal is near the north end of Van Ness Avenue, and the west portal feeds onto Marina Boulevard at Laguna Street.

The tunnel's construction in 1914 served several purposes. The rail link supplied goods and mass transit to the Panama Pacific International Exposition the following year, and the US Army utilized the line for construction of the Port of Embarkation. The tunnel operated as part of the State Belt Railroad until the route's suspension in 1993.

In 2012, the National Park Service released a final environmental impact report on providing extended service through the tunnel to the San Francisco Municipal Railway F Market & Wharves line. The cost of refurbishment and extension of the rail line was estimated at $60 million in 2017.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/West_portal_of_Fort_Mason_Tunnel%2C_June_2017.JPG/640px-West_portal_of_Fort_Mason_Tunnel%2C_June_2017.JPG

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:West_portal_of_Fort_Mason_Tunnel,_June_2017.JPG

One idea was to run the line all the way through this tunnel to the Marina. But again, our progeny may see it though we are unlikely to.

rajaxson
Mar 30, 2021, 8:14 PM
^^These are all ideas which have been proposed and seem likely to happen some day but not soon.

As you may know, there's already an abandoned tunnel under Ft. Mason:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:West_portal_of_Fort_Mason_Tunnel,_June_2017.JPG

One idea was to run the line all the way through this tunnel to the Marina. But again, our progeny may see it though we are unlikely to.

Ooh wow, interesting. That would be a great candidate however it may need to be widened for bi-directional travel. And I think Chestnut, Lombard or Union streets would serve as better alternatives to run down.

Then maybe some of those old motels on Lombard could be rezoned for some denser mixed use developments, introducing some affordable housing into the area.

timbad
Mar 31, 2021, 6:25 AM
^^These are all ideas which have been proposed and seem likely to happen some day but not soon.

As you may know, there's already an abandoned tunnel under Ft. Mason:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:West_portal_of_Fort_Mason_Tunnel,_June_2017.JPG

One idea was to run the line all the way through this tunnel to the Marina. But again, our progeny may see it though we are unlikely to.

I've always thought that tunnel is better suited to an extension of the F line historic streetcars, as the article mentions, with the Presidio as final destination via Marina Blvd. more of a tourist/excursion line than a piece of an integrated transit system, as I suspect it would be slow. I always thought the $60 million sounded like a relatively small amount of money in the grand scheme of things and was frustrated it hadn't been acted on.

agree with others that, besides Washington Square stop, the Central Subway should continue underground down Columbus to Joseph Conrad Square in Fisherman's Wharf area (a stop there also seemed like practically a given in the options Muni was studying), then west but curving back for a jog south to meet the top of Van Ness BRT (with the thought that BRT might one day be converted to streetcar and this could all be one line). from there I don't have a strong feeling what would be the best route further west (Chestnut, Lombard, or Union), if any, since it is a part of the city I don't spend time in often.

it occurs to me maybe this discussion is better held in another thread? isn't there a transit-specific section to the forum? I never go there.

Pedestrian
Mar 31, 2021, 6:33 AM
I've always thought that tunnel is better suited to an extension of the F line historic streetcars, as the article mentions, with the Presidio as final destination via Marina Blvd. more of a tourist/excursion line than a piece of an integrated transit system, as I suspect it would be slow. I always thought the $60 million sounded like a relatively small amount of money in the grand scheme of things and was frustrated it hadn't been acted on.

agree with others that, besides Washington Square stop, the Central Subway should continue underground down Columbus to Joseph Conrad Square in Fisherman's Wharf area (a stop there also seemed like practically a given in the options Muni was studying), then west but curving back for a jog south to meet the top of Van Ness BRT (with the thought that BRT might one day be converted to streetcar and this could all be one line). from there I don't have a strong feeling what would be the best route further west (Chestnut, Lombard, or Union), if any, since it is a part of the city I don't spend time in often.

it occurs to me maybe this discussion is better held in another thread? isn't there a transit-specific section to the forum? I never go there.

There's never been an intention to continue it underground, though. Indeed, the tunnel termination just beyond the Chinatown station was built in specific anticipation of bringing the line to the surface there and running it down Columbus on the surface. I'm sure that's what they'll do if they ever do extend it.

timbad
Mar 31, 2021, 5:01 PM
There's never been an intention to continue it underground, though. Indeed, the tunnel termination just beyond the Chinatown station was built in specific anticipation of bringing the line to the surface there and running it down Columbus on the surface. I'm sure that's what they'll do if they ever do extend it.

running it underground at least to Joseph Conrad Square definitely was one of the options given in the Muni survey they conducted (I participated). I think it was the option that received the overall most beneficial rating, as I recall. let's see if I can find it...

the survey itself appears no longer to be accessible on quick look, but at this link (https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/infrastructure/press-release/21127446/san-francisco-municipal-transportation-agency-sfmta-sfmta-releases-results-from-central-subway-survey-and-open-houses), there is this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51086277816_1ec183f557_c.jpg

Pedestrian
Mar 31, 2021, 8:49 PM
^^This isn't surprising. I'd rather it be underground too. I'd rather all Muni Metro lines be underground. I wish SF had an extensive subway system like NY. But that's not usually the way things are done here. They underground only in the most congested parts of "downtown". That's why the thing is above ground on much of 4th St and on Third in Mission Bay. North Beach just doesn't qualify as sufficiently traffic-choked to give the cost of keeping it underground down Columbus serious consideration IMHO.

craigs
Mar 31, 2021, 9:47 PM
There's never been an intention to continue it underground, though. Indeed, the tunnel termination just beyond the Chinatown station was built in specific anticipation of bringing the line to the surface there and running it down Columbus on the surface. I'm sure that's what they'll do if they ever do extend it.

The SFMTA's Central Subway extension website (https://www.sfmta.com/projects/central-subway-extension) notes that any future subway extension is still in outreach and planning stages (delayed by COVID), so we can't say with any certainty how much would be surface and how much would remain underground.

The Central Subway Extension is an opportunity for the SFMTA to evaluate a potential extension of the Central Subway beyond its current Chinatown Station terminal. Possible destinations include North Beach, Fisherman’s Wharf, the Marina, Cow Hollow, and Presidio.

We can say, however, that the existing tunnels extend to Union Street. In the past, the MTA has identified this as the likely site of a Washington Square subway station.

Although Chinatown - Rose Pak Station will be the northern terminal of the Central Subway, subway tunnels currently exist north of the station terminating in North Beach at Columbus Avenue and Union Street. During construction of the Central Subway, these additional tunnels were established so that the tunnel boring machines could be removed from the ground in an area where off-street space was available. Passenger service will not operate in the tunnels north of Chinatown Station, but the tunnels are designed to further extend service in the future. As a result, the SFMTA is studying the potential to add a station in the existing tunnels in North Beach, and possibly extend the subway to the north and/or west.

So the plain wording there shows they are definitely considering extending the "subway" at least part of the way to the Wharf, and any extension will likely run parallel to Columbus or Powell before hitting Jefferson.

If the route is to parallel Columbus, it cannot transition from subway to the surface until north of Greenwich, owing to the existing cable car tracks on Columbus between Chestnut and Greenwich.

mdsayh1
Apr 1, 2021, 2:01 AM
Though this is a little old this is still a conversation that Muni has alive. That being said it is on a very significant hold now that covid has decimated the revenue of Muni. If you open the Pdf you will see the details of the project and at the end they also reference the loop at Jones street which is indeed moving forward.

https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/agendaitems/2016/6-14-16%20OCSC%20F-Line%20Extension%20Update%20Presentation.pdf

Pedestrian
Apr 1, 2021, 3:00 AM
We can say, however, that the existing tunnels extend to Union Street. In the past, the MTA has identified this as the likely site of a Washington Square subway station.

So the plain wording there shows they are definitely considering extending the "subway" at least part of the way to the Wharf, and any extension will likely run parallel to Columbus or Powell before hitting Jefferson.

If the route is to parallel Columbus, it cannot transition from subway to the surface until north of Greenwich, owing to the existing cable car tracks on Columbus between Chestnut and Greenwich.

The existing tunnels extend to the extraction site of the boring equipment at the former site of the Pagoda Palace Theater across the street from Washington Square on the corner of Union. The terrain here having a fairly significant downhill slope, my guess is the line would come to the surface somewhere nearby. Otherwise it would have to take a substantial dive deeper to stay underground and, again, this part of San Francisco is not any more congested than the areas where Muni Metro runs on streets on Judah or Church for example. I'd bet that any extension beyond Washington Square would not be underground.

craigs
Apr 1, 2021, 3:10 AM
The existing tunnels extend to the extraction site of the boring equipment at the former site of the Pagoda Palace Theater across the street from Washington Square on the corner of Union. The terrain here having a fairly significant downhill slope, my guess is the line would come to the surface somewhere nearby. Otherwise it would have to take a substantial dive deeper to stay underground and, again, this part of San Francisco is not any more congested than the areas where Muni Metro runs on streets on Judah or Church for example. I'd bet that any extension beyond Washington Square would not be underground.
If there is to be an extension, then a Washington Square subway station will be constructed where the tunnels currently end. That means that, if the line is to be aligned with Columbus, there must then be at least another four blocks of subway before any portal is possible, again because of the existing cable car tracks on Columbus between Chestnut and Greenwich. If the line is aligned with Powell, then a portal is possible within two or three blocks, depending on how quickly the tunnels can be turned and then straightened out.

Busy Bee
Apr 1, 2021, 3:11 AM
I don't think the cable car tracks completely preclude a tunnel portal in the block between Greenwich/Mason and Lombard.

homebucket
Apr 1, 2021, 3:14 AM
Thought this was a neat, trippy photo, although obviously digitally altered.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51017907670_2770a88d23_b.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/mgz8lj/photoshopped_5_photos_to_create_this_hope_yall/

timbad
Apr 2, 2021, 1:00 AM
^^This isn't surprising. ... North Beach just doesn't qualify as sufficiently traffic-choked to give the cost of keeping it underground down Columbus serious consideration IMHO.

the point is, it would indeed be surprising if an underground option had indeed been ruled out: i.e., why would they have included it in the things you could vote on in that case?

the survey included basic cost-benefit analyses of various options mostly *to* the Fisherman's Wharf area, and some options were subway, some combos, and some mostly surface, as I recall.

the screenshot I posted was talking about any potential segment *from* FW to the west. I believe the way I responded after looking at all the analysis provided was that underground *to* FW made sense, but surface perhaps from the top of Van Ness to the west, if that segment were pursued.

Pedestrian
Apr 2, 2021, 8:54 PM
the point is, it would indeed be surprising if an underground option had indeed been ruled out: i.e., why would they have included it in the things you could vote on in that case?

the survey included basic cost-benefit analyses of various options mostly *to* the Fisherman's Wharf area, and some options were subway, some combos, and some mostly surface, as I recall.

the screenshot I posted was talking about any potential segment *from* FW to the west. I believe the way I responded after looking at all the analysis provided was that underground *to* FW made sense, but surface perhaps from the top of Van Ness to the west, if that segment were pursued.

I suspect a station at Washington Square would be underground but be the last such on the line. Obviously nothing has been "ruled out". Nothing has even been formally planned. But my prediction, based on what I've seen in SF over the years, is that the line would come above ground beyond Washington Square. It's a cost thing. I mean if we were building more subways, Van Ness and Geary east of Japantown would be the next most obvious places but instead we are getting BRT (not even above ground rail).

Pedestrian
Apr 2, 2021, 9:00 PM
SF YIMBY strikes again (and The Hub grows):

Review Meeting Requested For 1338-1370 Mission Street, SoMa, San Francisco
BY: ANDREW NELSON 4:30 AM ON APRIL 2, 2021

A project review meeting has been requested for a high-density residential proposal at 1338 through 1370 Mission Street in SoMa, San Francisco . . . . Mission Street Management LLC is listed as responsible as the property owner.

1360-1372 Mission Street, between 1338 and 1370, is a mid-density infill notable for having 25 units operated by Mercy Housing, according to the organization. Mercy Housing is a leading affordable housing developer in the United States who has several projects proposed or nearly finished in the Bay Area.

The date for the project review meeting has not yet been established. Developers have requested that the meeting include staff for design, preservation, and environmental planning review.

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/1338-1370-Mission-Street-with-neighboring-high-density-development-image-via-Google-Satellite-777x449.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/1338-1370-Mission-Street-image-via-Google-Street-View.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/1338-1370-Mission-Street-image-via-Google-Satellite.jpg


https://sfyimby.com/2021/04/review-meeting-requested-for-1338-1370-mission-street-soma-san-francisco.html

Jerry of San Fran
Apr 3, 2021, 9:54 PM
100 Stockton - Crane removal today at the site of the former Macy's men's store. The telescoping crane in the middle was making a delivery to the roof of a building for the day. The closest in the photo is on the site on Market Street. My view will soon be most crane free north of Market St.!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51092780672_86876dd453_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kQTRDA)Crane Coming Down @ 100 Stockton (https://flic.kr/p/2kQTRDA)

Pedestrian
Apr 6, 2021, 2:16 AM
This is for those worried about SF tech companies clearing out of prominent office space:

Real Estate Deals: Vir Biotechnology lease
By Simon Campbell – Contributing Writer
Apr 2, 2021, 8:00am EDT

Vir Biotechnology’s deal to sublease part of Dropbox’s Mission Bay headquarters at The Exchange in Mission Bay was one of the biggest, and most significant, Bay Area leases of 2020. Anyone looking for pointers on how the Covid-19 pandemic is impacting working habits and the local real estate will find them here.

Across the Bay Area, biotech companies are looking for space to expand their operations in a market that is increasingly grateful for the health innovations they are propelling, and funding those breakthroughs accordingly. The hunt for prime Bay Area lab space is intensifying and this is a statement lease for Vir.

The situation is somewhat different for tech companies like Dropbox. In October the cloud storage behemoth announced that staff could work remotely even after the pandemic. In November, it listed 472,000 square feet of the 750,000 in the building for sublease.

This year, developer Kilroy Realty announced it has agreed to sell the building for $1.8 billion, a price that breaks the San Francisco per-square-foot record.

Vir will configure the building that is currently in shell condition into lab space with occupancy slated for 2022. Base rent at the property is $47.44 per square foot for the first year of the sublease and will increase by 3% annually until 2033.
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2021/04/02/0402-realdeals-virsubleaseinsanfrancisco.html

In case you are unfamiliar with Vir:

GSK, Vir Biotechnology submit COVID-19 antibody treatment for FDA emergency use authorization
Tuesday, March 30, 2021 by Chris Galford

Investigational SARS-CoV-2 monoclonal antibody VIR-7831 was submitted for emergency use authorization (EUA) at the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) last week by developers GlaxoSmithKline plc (GSK) and Vir Biotechnology, Inc.

Pitched as a treatment for mild to moderate cases of COVID-19 among adults and adolescents at least 12 years old who are at risk of hospitalization or death, VIR-7831 performed well in trials. It demonstrated an 85 percent reduction in hospitalization or deaths compared to a placebo in the Phase 3 COMET-ICE trial. The interim analysis that serves as the companies’ basis for submission evaluated 583 patients.

Preclinical data suggested VIR-7831 targets an epitope of the viral spike protein, which may make it more difficult for it to develop resistance. In vitro data published in bioRxiv this month, based on virus assays, showed sustained activity against variants of SARS-CoV-2 currently circulating across the world, including the UK, South African, and Brazilian variants . . . .
https://homelandprepnews.com/stories/65993-gsk-vir-biotechnology-submit-covid-19-antibody-treatment-for-fda-emergency-use-authorization/

Pedestrian
Apr 6, 2021, 2:34 AM
Creative Central SoMa Infill Project Closer to Reality
April 1, 2021

The creative plans for two equal-sized, but slightly offset, buildings to rise up to 85 feet in height upon the through-block Central SoMa parcel at 470-474 Bryant Street have just qualified for a streamlined review.

. . . the proposed development includes a demolition of the adjacent, modern looking building at 482 Bryant, around which the 470-474 Bryant Street lot currently wraps, as well. And as envisioned, the property lines for the two parcels would then be redrawn to allow for one 7-story building fronting Bryant Street and another fronting Stillman, each with six stories of new office space over a floor of “PDR” space and basement garages for a total of 26 cars.

And as the office component of one building was designed to precisely measure 49,999 square feet, and the other 49,830 square feet, the project team would not need to secure an allocation from the City’s effectively depleted pool of allowable office developments that measure 50,000 square feet or more in order to proceed, assuming the proposed approach, lot line adjustment and subsequent subdivision are approved.

All that being said, building permits for the project, which would take an estimated 18 months to complete, have yet to be proactively requested . . . .

https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/474-Bryant-Site-Massing.jpg

https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/474-Bryant-Rendering.jpg

https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/474-Bryant-Rendering-Stillman.jpg


https://socketsite.com/archives/2021/04/creative-central-soma-project-closer-to-reality.html

unpermitted_variance
Apr 6, 2021, 5:27 PM
Seems awfully wasteful to demolish a building that was built in 2015 for a structure that's not really all that much bigger. At least the design looks nice on the proposal.

Busy Bee
Apr 6, 2021, 6:52 PM
^Isn't that the history of pretty much every large city? A shorter building built in 1880 ---> Significantly altered shortly after ---> Top floor lopped off ---> Torn down and replaced in 1910 with a building 4 stories taller ---> Said building significantly altered 15 years later to "modernize" it ---> "Modernized" building torn down 1945 for taller building still ---> New building torn down 1966 ---> New 3 story bank branch built ---> New bank building torn down 1982 for new office tower.... And so on...

Jerry of San Fran
Apr 9, 2021, 6:21 AM
1201 Sutter @ Polk - I walked by today. Nothing remarkable about this building. This corner has lots of memories for me. I walked almost to Broadway on Polk - many empty store fronts, few people on the street.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51104247104_a7764c35ab_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kRUCdG)1201 Sutter Street, San Francisco (https://flic.kr/p/2kRUCdG)

Busy Bee
Apr 9, 2021, 3:12 PM
Is that made of paper mache?

Pedestrian
Apr 9, 2021, 6:41 PM
Seems awfully wasteful to demolish a building that was built in 2015 for a structure that's not really all that much bigger. At least the design looks nice on the proposal.

Not really all that much bigger? We must be looking at different images. For one thing, it's more than twice as tall. For another, it has maybe triple (or more) the footprint.

AndrewK
Apr 10, 2021, 12:22 AM
Seems awfully wasteful to demolish a building that was built in 2015 for a structure that's not really all that much bigger. At least the design looks nice on the proposal.

The 2015 three story building only makes up about 10-15% of the entire property, the rest is an older two story building.

This photo from a previous Socketsite article gives a better sense of what is being demolished (the newer building only goes half way back, the older building wraps around it):

https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/474-Bryant-Site-1.jpg

Pedestrian
Apr 12, 2021, 10:33 PM
The Draft Plans and New Timing for Temporary Terminal Site
April 7, 2021

The draft plans for the redevelopment of the southern third of the shuttered Temporary Terminal Site, a nearly 43,000-square-foot block bounded by a future extension of Clementina Street to the north, Main Street to the east, Folsom Street to the south, and Beale Street to the west, have been drafted by Mercy Housing and the Chinatown Community Development Center which have been awarded the rights to the project.

The proposed approach includes the development of two 9-story buildings, a 101-unit building on the eastern half of the site for low-income and formerly homeless families with household incomes of between 20 and 80 percent of the Area Median and a 153-unit building on the western half of the site for seniors making between 25 and 80 percent of the Area Median Income (AMI), with a 6,000-square-foot child care center, around 6,000 square feet of ground floor retail space, a mid-block walk and open spaces between the two buildings and no off-street parking for any cars.

The conceptual design for the two buildings will be detailed and refined by Kennerly Architecture and Planning and Mithun | Solomon over the next couple of quarters and should be ready for approval by the end of the year, with permitting and funding applications expected to be submitted next year (2022) and construction now expected to commence in “late 2023” and be completed in “late 2025.”

And yes, a potential increase in the proposed height for the family building to rise on the eastern half of the site, which is already cleared to rise up to 165 feet in height, versus 85 feet as proposed, remains in play, with an evaluation of whether or not the proposed development “fully maximiz[es] the potential for housing units” on the site to be conducted and a potential adjustment, which could “significantly” alter the proposed unit count, to follow.

From the Office of Community Investment and Infrastructure (OCII):

“A height of 85’ may be less challenging to finance given the lower tax-exempt bond request, however, preliminary studies indicate that a height of 165’ would yield an additional 46 units (bring the Block 2 East unit count to 147) and would likely result in a lower cost per unit. As a condition to the predevelopment loan, Mercy will further analyze development scenarios with heights at 165’ and 240’.”

https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Transbay-Block-2-Rendering-Site-Plan.jpg
[/quote]
https://socketsite.com/archives/2021/04/the-draft-plans-and-new-timing-for-temporary-terminal-site.html

timbad
Apr 14, 2021, 12:17 AM
various things that didn't fit in their own threads (or whose threads have been closed)...

starting close to the most recent news above re: the temporary terminal site, Folsom St had almost *no* sections orange-plasticked-off anymore, finally! all the corner rainwater planter things looked done, bus shelters were up, pavers were in, and the street has been striped. could still get some green paint for the bike lanes, don't know.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112872569_294a89f84c_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112551697_34e74ec278_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112560947_9e58c07770_b.jpg

in the same vein, Second St also looked much more wrapped-up, with plantings and more green paint

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113016178_86a678df2f_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113010243_f4083a5a62_b.jpg

entrance to South Park

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112440842_3680181117_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113790810_930f0f8d49_b.jpg

100 Folsom's thread is closed, but the passageway on its north side was open for the first time that I had noticed

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112873189_67af5ac8ed_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113909480_8cd135d0e6_b.jpg

the floating fire station

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113037168_2388fd0b27_b.jpg

Muni platform Fourth and Brannan

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113955855_a3e5bf36dc_b.jpg

the little one on Fourth near Folsom

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112607572_19e0ebbd6f_b.jpg

Ninth and Howard (bonus of 5M in a couple)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113174476_92a240a5f8_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112608122_e18558327d_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113957865_410244a910_b.jpg

I think some new saplings have been planted on Van Ness

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113174246_4fbd7dce04_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113173906_dc51e06fd0_b.jpg

the little one on Market and Gough/Haight

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113178356_30f5bafa25_b.jpg

1500 Mission's thread is also closed, but I noticed a historic tableau on the side of the former Coca-Cola Bottling plant, which was nice. I had no idea it had belonged to a bus and truck manufacturer before Coke, and had not always been in the moderne style

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112597827_528fc06139_b.jpg

the internal passageway through the complex

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112597812_e3df222e1f_b.jpg

fencing still up around Trinity, whose thread is also closed for some reason

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112916194_039eaf5f7d_b.jpg

peeking through that fence

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113945325_269f781142_b.jpg

50 Jones, the project formerly known as 1066 Market

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113055993_5d5bc4ff9a_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112582997_04bafbff49_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113056268_b9e0a3bcd7_b.jpg

MayorQuinbee
Apr 16, 2021, 5:37 PM
various things that didn't fit in their own threads (or whose threads have been closed)...

50 Jones, the project formerly known as 1066 Market

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113055993_5d5bc4ff9a_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112582997_04bafbff49_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113056268_b9e0a3bcd7_b.jpg

What a rough block. All i can say is good luck

Pedestrian
Apr 16, 2021, 7:41 PM
What a rough block. All i can say is good luck

It's called "gentrification". The idea is maybe it won't be so rough if you can induce middle class folks to live there (and call the cops if things get too rough once they are there).

BobbyMucho
Apr 16, 2021, 10:25 PM
It's called "gentrification". The idea is maybe it won't be so rough if you can induce middle class folks to live there (and call the cops if things get too rough once they are there).

I get the tongue-in-cheek commentary, but I'm not quite sure that building new housing on one of the busiest streets in SF is exactly "gentrification" — regardless of what neighborhood it's adjacent to. Mixed-income communities are not only viable but essential to improving neighborhoods and communities.

Pedestrian
Apr 16, 2021, 11:02 PM
I get the tongue-in-cheek commentary, but I'm not quite sure that building new housing on one of the busiest streets in SF is exactly "gentrification" — regardless of what neighborhood it's adjacent to. Mixed-income communities are not only viable but essential to improving neighborhoods and communities.

Plugging "mixed income communities" into low income communities IS gentrification and I was actually looking at it from the perspective of the new address on Jones St. and/or Golden Gate at Jones which IS a rough neighborhood. So actually is that part of Mid-Market no matter how "busy" it is (although now that it's private carless even that'll be interesting to see).

Actually, I don't think I even understand your point. If anything, Mid-Market and that part of the Tenderloin may have worse reputations than they warrant but they are rough. I find Mid-Market scarier than almost any other part of town.

craigs
Apr 16, 2021, 11:31 PM
various things that didn't fit in their own threads (or whose threads have been closed)...
Thank you for the update! It's great to see progress on so many fronts.

BobbyMucho
Apr 17, 2021, 2:21 AM
Plugging "mixed income communities" into low income communities IS gentrification and I was actually looking at it from the perspective of the new address on Jones St. and/or Golden Gate at Jones which IS a rough neighborhood. So actually is that part of Mid-Market no matter how "busy" it is (although now that it's private carless even that'll be interesting to see).

Actually, I don't think I even understand your point. If anything, Mid-Market and that part of the Tenderloin may have worse reputations than they warrant but they are rough. I find Mid-Market scarier than almost any other part of town.

The point is that it's sloppy and inadequate to use the term "gentrification" to describe new housing in the epicenter of densely populated San Francisco, on main streets where there's plenty of need for additional housing density, even if it's adjacent to a neighborhood that's considered lower-income. I find it hilarious (and slightly sad) that you'd insinuate that new residents will learn to deal with it by "calling the police".

Additionally, mixed-income isn't like a theoretical classification or a political term; it's literally just an indication of income variables within an area. Creating new housing in lower-income areas is in no way gentrification (compared to replacing low-income housing) and is in every way what every sober supervisor, mayor, planning, housing advocate is promoting in order to create healthier and economically mobile communities.

Also, I mean 'busy' as in economic traffic. People on the street, not cars, per se.

Jerry of San Fran
Apr 17, 2021, 7:52 PM
Hastings Law School Demolition is now down to the basement level - view from the Asian Art Museum. The demolition for those who don't know is for a taller building to be built there. In the foreground is the new terrace at the Asian Art Museum. (photo was taken through a dirty window!)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51121079947_d58e9ce111_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kToU38)Hastings Law School Demolition (https://flic.kr/p/2kToU38)

unpermitted_variance
Apr 17, 2021, 11:15 PM
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51121079947_d58e9ce111_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kToU38)Hastings Law School Demolition (https://flic.kr/p/2kToU38)

Is that Vladimir Tatlin's Monument to the Third International in the foreground?

timbad
Apr 18, 2021, 6:40 AM
Is that Vladimir Tatlin's Monument to the Third International in the foreground?

thanks for the reference! since Asian Art Museum, maybe Ai Weiwei's Fountain of Light, which is based on it?

timbad
Apr 18, 2021, 6:39 PM
I forgot to post the shots of the little one next to the SFPUC building in Civic Center; not sure we'd seen it completely uncovered

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123665878_39afaa9136_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124561685_8cb1728556_b.jpg

timbad
Apr 18, 2021, 10:14 PM
I was excited to see a proposal for the parcel at Third and Harrison on SFYimby (https://sfyimby.com/2021/04/strada-reveals-200-million-plan-for-395-3rd-street-soma-san-francisco.html). have literally been wondering for decades when something might go in there

Busy Bee
Apr 18, 2021, 10:31 PM
Is that Vladimir Tatlin's Monument to the Third International in the foreground?

Ha! Thought the same:D

craigs
Apr 19, 2021, 12:31 AM
I was excited to see a proposal for the parcel at Third and Harrison on SFYimby (https://sfyimby.com/2021/04/strada-reveals-200-million-plan-for-395-3rd-street-soma-san-francisco.html). have literally been wondering for decades when something might go in there

Yes please!

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/395-3rd-Street-dwarfed-by-the-San-Francisco-Skyline-rendering-by-Solomon-Cordwell-Buenz.jpg

gillynova
Apr 19, 2021, 2:13 AM
Man... I can't wait for Harrison Street to be developed

Jerry of San Fran
Apr 19, 2021, 4:08 AM
timbad, unpermitted_variance - It is Ai Weiwei's Fountain of Light, based on Vladimire Tatin's Monument to the Third International. It will be clad in crystals & look like a chandalier. I'm not excited to see it - not my cuppa tea.

Pedestrian
Apr 19, 2021, 5:30 AM
I was excited to see a proposal for the parcel at Third and Harrison on SFYimby (https://sfyimby.com/2021/04/strada-reveals-200-million-plan-for-395-3rd-street-soma-san-francisco.html). have literally been wondering for decades when something might go in there

This has a thread: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246554

timbad
Apr 19, 2021, 8:54 AM
^ Jerry, thanks for the confirmation

^ Pedestrian, thanks for making the thread

various things from a walk today...

the KQED building makeover (https://sfyimby.com/2020/10/facade-spotted-on-kqeds-hq-renovation-at-2601-mariposa-street-mission-san-francisco.html) is starting to show (Mariposa and Bryant)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124640339_bcfee2f3b0_b.jpg

(in the left foreground, you can barely see a bit of the large Muni yard that is also slated for a major makeover (https://www.sfmta.com/reports/potrero-yard-modernization-project-beforeafter-images))

down the street, a little further into the NE Mission, this little project (https://sfyimby.com/2021/01/permits-filed-for-2750-19th-street-mission-district-san-francisco.html) looks like it is about to get underway

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125700470_d2c84b34cb_b.jpg

... while across the street from that, 681 Florida (https://missionlocal.org/2020/10/seventh-100-percent-affordable-apartment-building-breaks-ground-in-mission-district/) is underway

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124803533_7aa1104f0d_b.jpg

the Florida St side

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124803568_afc19e8f24_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124641079_f57f105854_b.jpg

moving over a few blocks to the projects we are familiar with, starting with the one at 17th and Folsom

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125701230_ae420690e8_b.jpg

still working on the passageway that separates it from the park

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124892141_c58c0bf08c_b.jpg

on the right edge of the earlier pic you can glimpse this one on 16th St. looking west

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124804653_fec7af9f8a_b.jpg

east

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124642204_dd787a3c17_b.jpg

in relation to the other one that recently went up at 16th and S Van Ness

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125701640_2cde6ffb52_b.jpg

the one on Mission just north of 16th (https://socketsite.com/archives/2019/03/ground-for-157-affordable-apartments-will-be-broken-next-week.html)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125701870_0e2ea5353b_b.jpg

the former oil change place on Duboce and Valencia

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124805143_d0363de7ff_b.jpg

2238 Market (https://socketsite.com/archives/2019/07/market-street-mortuary-redevelopment-is-breaking-ground.html)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124331047_10febc8689_b.jpg

couple of Van Ness... in this case S Van Ness, whose sidewalk is fully open again on the west side after undergoing its not-as-fancy-as-Van-Ness makeover

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124807003_291106136e_b.jpg

and the state of Van Ness in front of City Hall

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124895111_606278c3db_b.jpg

the one where the witty sign used to be (https://socketsite.com/archives/2018/10/redevelopment-of-iconic-tenderloin-site-positioning-to-break-ground.html) is still mostly a big black box

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124643689_3198a59f06_b.jpg

the one on Mission near 7th (https://www.1064missionstreet.org)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124644209_74b9c1daf7_b.jpg

the one on 7th near Mission (whose website you can see in the pic) looks finally complete after seeming to have dragged on for quite a while

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124332307_76d68ea48b_b.jpg

and a little further down 7th, west side, I forget which one this is

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125703285_a86bdf43c8_b.jpg

craigs
Apr 20, 2021, 2:57 AM
Thanks for all the infill pics, timbad.

homebucket
Apr 20, 2021, 9:52 PM
SF, and SFYIMBY, for that matter, are killing it lately. :cheers:

The Market Hall building in particular looks great. Very Seoul/Tokyo-like.

Office Allocation Application Filed For Flower Mart At 610 Brannan Street, SoMa, San Francisco
BY: ANDREW NELSON 5:30 AM ON APRIL 20, 2021

Market Hall is a proposed nine-story 148-foot building with an oculus extending from the rooftop to the ground-level plaza. The distinctive design feature will become the oculus breezeway where pedestrians can cut through from Market Alley to Brannan Street. The building will yield 351,900 square feet.

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/610-Brannan-Street-design-by-Adamson-and-RCH-STUDiOS-777x438.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/610-Brannan-Street-view-from-5th-and-Brannan-design-by-Adamson-and-RCH-STUDiOS.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/610-Brannan-Street-oculus-breezeway-view-design-by-Adamson-and-RCH-STUDiOS.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/2021/04/office-allocation-application-filed-for-flower-mart-at-610-brannan-street-soma-san-francisco.html

bossabreezes
Apr 20, 2021, 10:17 PM
Great updates!

I'll be in town in May/June and was wondering what its like on the ground from a locals perspective. I've heard a lot of people saying its dooms day, apocalypse, etc- and others saying its not that bad but there are lots of closed stores/restaurants along the market/SOMA corridor.

I love SF but want to be prepared for what I see. Thanks for any input!

homebucket
Apr 20, 2021, 10:28 PM
Great updates!

I'll be in town in May/June and was wondering what its like on the ground from a locals perspective. I've heard a lot of people saying its dooms day, apocalypse, etc- and others saying its not that bad but there are lots of closed stores/restaurants along the market/SOMA corridor.

I love SF but want to be prepared for what I see. Thanks for any input!

Everything that didn't close due to the pandemic (including indoors stuff) is open at 50% capacity. There's still an excellent selection of dining options available, indoors or outdoors. Popular outdoor spots like the Embarcadero, Fort Mason, Dolores Park, Golden Gate Park, Patricia's Green, etc are pretty much back to pre-pandemic vibrancy levels. You can also catch a Warriors or Giants game in person as well.

Pedestrian
Apr 20, 2021, 10:50 PM
Great updates!

I'll be in town in May/June and was wondering what its like on the ground from a locals perspective. I've heard a lot of people saying its dooms day, apocalypse, etc- and others saying its not that bad but there are lots of closed stores/restaurants along the market/SOMA corridor.

I love SF but want to be prepared for what I see. Thanks for any input!

I'm not there now--returning this weekend. But when I left in November post-apocalyptic wasn't too far off. Many restaurants were operating in their outdoor "parklets" (the curb lane taken over with structures and amenities like heating of various quality) and I found those very pleasant for dining (my experience was mainly in Hayes Valley). I hope they stay. I'll choose to eat outdoors even if there's an indoor option--I did before the pandemic.

But what was missing was any form of indoor entertainment: movies, symphony, opera, ballet, any type of performances, bars, clubs, sports (Warriors) etc etc. I believe the movies are open again with reduced capacity but, again, I've learned to prefer watching at home. The Giants are playing ball to live fans again--but, again, fewer of them. I gather concerts and performances would now be allowed with smaller audiences allowing "distancing" if and when the performing arts want to get going but May/June is normally the season only for summer opera and I doubt they've had time to plan for that. There may be some events at Stern Grove (an outdoor performance space).

So things are getting better and I read that Marin County--across the Golden Gate--has or will soon move to the state's "yellow tier" which means a lot of business as usual over there. SF isn't that much worse off in terms of numbers of cases so we'll see. We could be yellow by the time you come (if the Mayor doesn't add restrictions as she has done before).

The worst thing to me about pandemic San Francisco, aside from the lack of its usual varied entertainment, was the CRIME. The lack of people on the streets in some areas gave free reign to criminals. I know of 2 drug stores that have closed because their shelves were literally stripped bare by shoplifters too often (thefts of value under $950 are now a misdemeanor in CA so the cops sometimes don't even come for petty shoplifting). There seems to be an ongoing wave of garage break-ins and package thefts from apartment lobbies (in spite of supposedly being accessible only to tenants). Quite a few muggings. But car break-ins are reportedly down if only because tourists were the favorite victims (they leave stuff in their cars) and there aren't any of those.

On the other hand, in my neighborhood, at least, we had fewer sidewalk tent campers because they were given hotel rooms no longer occupied by tourists or "safe spaces" for camping in parking lots no longer needed for workers in offices. As the offices reopen and the hotels want to try to entice tourists, I expect that to reverse. How it will be as soon as May/June I can't say.

craigs
Apr 20, 2021, 10:58 PM
Great updates!

I'll be in town in May/June and was wondering what its like on the ground from a locals perspective. I've heard a lot of people saying its dooms day, apocalypse, etc- and others saying its not that bad but there are lots of closed stores/restaurants along the market/SOMA corridor.

I love SF but want to be prepared for what I see. Thanks for any input!
State restrictions are being lifted June 15th, so a lot will be open starting then. And whether May or June, dress in layers--it normally gets quite chilly and windy in the afternoon and stays chilly overnight.

bossabreezes
Apr 20, 2021, 11:41 PM
Thanks guys! Good thing to note Craigs, the first time I ever visited SF was during August, or colloquially ''Fogust'', and was pretty shocked at how cold it felt. New York in August is similar to setting yourself on fire while in a sauna.

My main concern isn't really entertainment options as it is safety. SF is kind of dicey on a good day (at least along Market/SOMA, where I'll be based) so hoping its not much worse than pre-pandemic. Pedestrian, I would appreciate an update when you return in regards to this. I'll be mainly doing client visits but might also pop into the odd gay bar (if open) lol.

Theres a chance I might relocate to the Bay Area, if that's the case then I'd be happy to provide periodic construction updates as well. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Pedestrian
Apr 21, 2021, 3:15 AM
Thanks guys! Good thing to note Craigs, the first time I ever visited SF was during August, or colloquially ''Fogust'', and was pretty shocked at how cold it felt. New York in August is similar to setting yourself on fire while in a sauna.

My main concern isn't really entertainment options as it is safety. SF is kind of dicey on a good day (at least along Market/SOMA, where I'll be based) so hoping its not much worse than pre-pandemic. Pedestrian, I would appreciate an update when you return in regards to this. I'll be mainly doing client visits but might also pop into the odd gay bar (if open) lol.

Theres a chance I might relocate to the Bay Area, if that's the case then I'd be happy to provide periodic construction updates as well. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

If by “along Market” you mean what we call “Mid-Market”, i.e. Market from about 5th St to Van Ness, that’s the scariest place in San Francisco IMHO and even long-time San Franciscans avoid it (however a couple of new residential projects there are near opening and another couple of trendy hotels opened there before the pandemic so maybe it’ll improve). On the other hand, SOMA is pretty safe (except when crossing the street). It looks industrial and all that, but I feel perfectly safe walking there—safer than I do in some tourist hotspots (SF’s criminals’ favorite targets are tourists). But in any case, the best known gay bar left in SOMA, the Stud, I believe has closed. So if you’re planning on bar-hopping (if allowed), you’ll probably be mainly in the Castro.

homebucket
Apr 21, 2021, 4:10 AM
Mid-Market is sketchy at worst, but by no means is it dangerous. As long as you're not freaked out by the sight of homeless people, you'll be perfectly fine.

Exercise the same caution you would in any tourist heavy city. Don't have your face in your phone or your fancy camera dangling about. I would recommend you do this in any part of the City.

homebucket
Apr 21, 2021, 4:35 AM
Speaking of Mid-Market, here's a nice recent aerial of it. You can see some of the newer construction as well.

https://scontent-sjc3-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/e35/p1080x1080/174265362_282959436706869_2122698394873458347_n.jpg?tp=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=wXbrISjWP4sAX80t07a&edm=AGenrX8AAAAA&ccb=7-4&oh=16b56bfdbf1c8acd9329d33ac7d62dc1&oe=60A42657&_nc_sid=5eceaa

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNzCiWqhP8t/

craigs
Apr 21, 2021, 4:40 AM
Mid-Market is sketchy at worst, but by no means is it dangerous. As long as you're not freaked out by the sight of homeless people, you'll be perfectly fine.

Exercise the same caution you would in any tourist heavy city. Don't have your face in your phone or your fancy camera dangling about. I would recommend you do this in any part of the City.
Agreed on all counts. I rode my bike to and from work along Market Street for over a decade and never had any issues with crime. I would say the Tenderloin is more dangerous and also has more homeless these days. And any New Yorker should be just fine going about their business in San Francisco as long as he is paying attention to what's going on around him.

Pedestrian
Apr 21, 2021, 6:47 AM
Mid-Market is sketchy at worst, but by no means is it dangerous. As long as you're not freaked out by the sight of homeless people, you'll be perfectly fine.

Exercise the same caution you would in any tourist heavy city. Don't have your face in your phone or your fancy camera dangling about. I would recommend you do this in any part of the City.

Not sketchy . . . unless you count the several shootings there, one in front of a Subway sandwich shop I used to occasionally frequent (and in which one of the local derelicts amused himself by throwing things at me), now closed partly on account of the violence. More recently there was this: S.F. police shoot man, armed with knife, on Market Street] (https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/S-F-police-open-fire-on-man-with-a-knife-near-15735129.php) in the same area. And not far away, but also on Mid-Market, just weeks ago this: Man accused of assaulting 2 Asians in S.F. was beaten before attack, lawyer says (https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/Man-accused-of-assaulting-2-Asian-Americans-in-16087458.php). I really have not heard of this kind of thing occurring with such regularity in the Tenderloin.

Yeah, you'll probably be fine. I actually do walk there all the time and like the burritos at Can-Cun (and I used to work near Market and 7th . . . and survived), but I've been hassled by more derelicts on that stretch than anywhere else and for amusement, when I worked in the methadone clinic there, we used to watch some of the clients selling drugs across the street in UN Plaza (also probably the city's main bazaar for stolen goods).

Pedestrian
Apr 21, 2021, 6:54 AM
Agreed on all counts. I rode my bike to and from work along Market Street for over a decade and never had any issues with crime. I would say the Tenderloin is more dangerous and also has more homeless these days. And any New Yorker should be just fine going about their business in San Francisco as long as he is paying attention to what's going on around him.

The Tenderloin only looks more dangerous. It's mostly the home of a lot of immigrant families these days (and I say that in spite of having almost been shot as the innocent victim of a drive-by on Turk St. once). Again, when I was in the heroin treatment biz, I knew quite a few of the folks I would see hanging in the Tenderloin--my main clinic was there--and actually felt pretty safe knowing they would look out for me (these were users, not vicious sellers). There certainly are some dicey corners--Golden Gate & Hyde is one. But overall, the Tenderloin is the home of more good restaurants and markets (and a few great dive bars in better times) than reasons to be scared, at least in the daytime. At night I would not walk around there or on Mid-Market alone.

I knew what they were up to on Market and in the Loin, which you wouldn't notice riding by on a bike (these people don't run into the street to menace bike riders and drivers) because they would tell me, quite frankly. The thing, though, that makes Market scarier than the Tenderloin is the 2 BART stations, especially Civic Center. Those are where the Oakland drug dealers come to the surface from their trip under the Bay. That's why the biggest heroin markets are near there (and the 2 BART stations in the Mission are active too).

I will agree with one thing you said: any New Yorker should have street smarts to spot and avoid trouble in San Francisco although I sadly have to admit that the last several times I was in New York everybody seemed friendly and nice (and benign) compared to what's on the Streets of San Francisco the days.

timbad
Apr 21, 2021, 10:17 AM
if it is personal safety you are concerned about, you were mostly better off in 2020 than a year prior in SF, according to the Chron (https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/This-is-how-the-pandemic-changed-crime-in-every-16107691.php) this last week

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51130138375_52d8a05391_z.jpg

anecdotally, on my most recent walk I had a palpable sense of things gradually returning to normal, with more people doing things indoors and seemingly more places open overall.

I have never had any cause to fear for my safety while walking in SF.

Ptah
Apr 23, 2021, 3:23 AM
Homeless and drug addicts are all over downtown SF because the city government tolerates them. Once in a while the cops make a sweep to disperse them, but they always come back to their old hang outs. That said, walking around downtown is still generally safe in all my experience. These days I am more worried when I need to leave my car on the streets!

Still, I would always tell visiting family and friends to be cautious when walking around Mid Market (Market Street between 5th and 9th Streets) and Tenderloin (area bounded by O'Farrell-Taylor-Market-Polk Streets). These downtown areas have always been sketchy for as long as I can remember, but this has never stopped me from getting my banh mi fix at Saigon Sandwich:D

homebucket
Apr 23, 2021, 3:40 AM
Homeless and drug addicts are all over downtown SF because the city government tolerates them. Once in a while the cops make a sweep to disperse them, but they always come back to their old hang outs. That said, walking around downtown is still generally safe in all my experience. These days I am more worried when I need to leave my car on the streets!

Still, I would always tell visiting family and friends to be cautious when walking around Mid Market (Market Street between 5th and 9th Streets) and Tenderloin (area bounded by O'Farrell-Taylor-Market-Polk Streets). These downtown areas have always been sketchy for as long as I can remember, but this has never stopped me from getting my banh mi fix at Saigon Sandwich:D

Fair point. I think car break ins are more of a concern than actual assault.

tall/awkward
Apr 23, 2021, 6:41 AM
Nice pic. Always liked the Barroque looking dome on the building to the left.

viewguysf
Apr 23, 2021, 7:52 AM
Nice pic. Always liked the Barroque looking dome on the building to the left.

That’s the Humboldt Bank building.

iamfishhead
Apr 23, 2021, 11:44 PM
Fair point. I think car break ins are more of a concern than actual assault.

Yeah, if you look at crime statistics, SF is safer than many other cities then you might think, at least in terms of assault and other violent crimes. SF does not do well with other cities with respect to vandalism and car break ins.

The data is pretty much in line with my experience. Nobody, including the homeless are likely to injure you, but be careful of someone breaking into your car.

tech12
Apr 24, 2021, 8:47 PM
Yeah, if you look at crime statistics, SF is safer than many other cities then you might think, at least in terms of assault and other violent crimes.

It's true that there are cities with more violent crime than SF. But the majority of US cities do better than SF, not worse.

Of the 100 largest US cities in 2017, SF had a higher total violent crime rate than 60 of them. Ranked just below Miami (another famously safe city, right?), and was worse-off than the following, in descending order:

San Antonio
Corpus Christi
St Petersburg
Denver
Sacramento
Reno
Des Moines
Boston
Long Beach
Pittsburgh
St. Paul
Omaha
Louisville
Seattle
Jacksonville
Spokane
Las Vegas
Aurora
Fresno
Fort Worth
Norfolk
New York
Colorado Springs
Arlington
Portland
Columbus
Jersey City
Riverside
Santa Ana
Glendale
Bakersfield
Tampa
Savannah
Chesapeake
Mesa
Austin
San Jose
El Paso
Madison
San Diego
Fort Wayne
Anaheim
Laredo
Lexington
Garland
Chula Vista
Boise
Chandler
Honolulu
Irving
Hialeah
Henderson
Fremont
Santa Clarita
Scottsdale
Plano
Virginia Beach
Gilbert
Irvine

SF is great, but it's funny to see the alternate reality that some people inhabit, where it's actually a super safe city with low violent crime by US standards. You're thinking of Honolulu or Boise. Not SF lol

Not to mention that safety changes depending on the person. A young latino or black person in SF is going to be much more in danger of a random assault (or even murder) than a typical white person. Just like someone who zips through a sketchy area on their bike (or by car) is far less likely to have trouble than a person who goes through on foot, or who actually lives there.

SF does rank relatively well for assault, murder and rape, and ranks worse than 30-35% of the 100 largest cities.

Robbery however is also a violent crime, and one that affects upper class people to a larger degree than assaults and murders. In fact the robbery rate is the main reason SF's total violent crime rate is relatively high. Just by robbery rate, SF was worse than 80% of the 100 largest cities. That's number 20 on the list, right in between Newark, NJ, and Washington DC. Worse than New Orleans, Dallas, Los Angeles, Long Beach, Atlanta, Nashville, Toledo, Pittsburgh, NYC, Jersey City, etc, etc. Does SF really sound particularly safe here, by American standards?

And as for property crime, in 2017 SF was the 2nd worst in the entire nation, fueled mostly by car break ins and bike thefts, which spiked greatly in recent years. Though they dropped back down due to covid-19, while burglaries then spiked.

By the way, shooting victims in SF are up 181% so far this year compared to 2020.

The thing, though, that makes Market scarier than the Tenderloin is the 2 BART stations, especially Civic Center. Those are where the Oakland drug dealers come to the surface from their trip under the Bay. That's why the biggest heroin markets are near there (and the 2 BART stations in the Mission are active too).

ahh yes, lets imply that Oakland is to blame for the worst crime. As if the Tenderloin and Mission districts (and other parts of SF) don't have lots of drug dealers living in them. Or perhaps the implication is that Oakland drug dealers are some kind of extra scary and dangerous breed of drug dealer lol

Mimol742
Apr 24, 2021, 9:44 PM
It's true that there are cities with more violent crime than SF. But the majority of US cities do better than SF, not worse.

Not to mention that safety changes depending on the person. A young latino or black person in SF is going to be much more in danger of a random assault (or even murder) than a typical white person. Just like someone who zips through a sketchy area on their bike (or by car) is far less likely to have trouble than a person who goes through on foot, or who actually lives there.

A young Latino or Black person are more In danger In San Francisco? How come?

craigs
Apr 24, 2021, 10:47 PM
SF is great, but it's funny to see the alternate reality that some people inhabit, where it's actually a super safe city with low violent crime by US standards. You're thinking of Honolulu or Boise. Not SF lol
Holy straw man, exactly who are these people who inhabit an alternate reality San Francisco that is "super safe" and crime free? I think we've all been reasonable in explaining to a New Yorker that he should be fine on his visit to SF so long as he pays attention to what is going on around him. Do you disagree?

gillynova
Apr 25, 2021, 3:06 PM
By the way, shooting victims in SF are up 181% so far this year compared to 2020.



Well, we were locked down and majority of us didn't go outside for majority of 2020 so that data is skewed.

But I generally do feel safe walking around San Francisco (SoMA, Mission Bay, Golden Gate Park, Crissy Fields, Sutro Baths/Richmond, Bernal Heights etc) but I'm always worried about my car whenever I leave it. I always hide my stuff in my trunk BEFORE my parking anywhere just incase.

homebucket
Apr 25, 2021, 6:28 PM
Well, we were locked down and majority of us didn't go outside for majority of 2020 so that data is skewed.

But I generally do feel safe walking around San Francisco (SoMA, Mission Bay, Golden Gate Park, Crissy Fields, Sutro Baths/Richmond, Bernal Heights etc) but I'm always worried about my car whenever I leave it. I always hide my stuff in my trunk BEFORE my parking anywhere just incase.

Golden Gate Park is a hot spot. Really any busy, touristy area will be targeted for car break ins. Dolores, Alamo Square, Pier 39/Fisherman's Wharf, etc.

I will add that one thing that I used to do that I no longer feel personally safe doing is taking photographs from Twin Peaks at night. To me, that is more risky than walking down Mid-Market.

timbad
Apr 29, 2021, 8:16 PM
...
anecdotally, on my most recent walk I had a palpable sense of things gradually returning to normal, with more people doing things indoors and seemingly more places open overall. ...

apparently, not just me... (from Nextdoor)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51147189928_68f17cd41f_z.jpg

Pedestrian
Apr 30, 2021, 6:52 PM
I have never had any cause to fear for my safety while walking in SF.

If you are a sizable, youngish male who looks street smart and isn't carrying tempting "bling" including an exposed cell phone, there's no reason you should. A quick scan of the site "Nextdoor", though, reveals how it is for young or vulnerable looking women and others and the shocking thing is how few of them report the crimes, often advised by police not to bother (meaning the Chronicle's statistics are not very valid).

I'm 6 ft, 250 lb and usually wear a hoody walking about. Almost no one bothers' me either but sometimes: Yesterday some teen twerp came barrelling down the sidewalk on a scooter )illegal to ride on the sidewalk) expecting me to get out of his way and I didn't cooperate (I think my weight is double his). My left side collided with his right and I was hoping to send him sprawling--didn't happen sadly.

But I know about the real crime and criminals who inhabit SF sidewalks and the areas on Market and otherwise near Civic Center BART and the 2 Mission BART stations are some of the worst (because they offer easy access to Oakland, home of many of the drug dealers). I know because some of those criminals used to be my patients like I explained above. Sorry to say, you don't know what's going on as a casual passer-by. And all but the crazies will probably leave you alone. But who here will argue SF streets aren't full of crazies? And you think it's safe until you find out otherwise.

Pedestrian
Apr 30, 2021, 8:02 PM
New Renderings Revealed For Related’s 530 Sansome Street Tower, Financial District, San Francisco (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9265991#post9265991)

Pedestrian
Apr 30, 2021, 10:23 PM
Planning’s preliminary review of Amazon’s plans to build a 58-foot-tall distribution and delivery station upon the Prime Showplace Square parcel at 900 7th Street, a nearly 6-acre parcel which is bounded by 7th, Berry, De Haro, Carolina and Channel Streets, has been completed. And while the review didn’t raise any red flags, it did outline a number of concerns and (non-binding) recommendations.

From Planning’s assessment:

To accommodate the mix of [Production, Distribution and Repair (PDR)], design and nearby residential uses in Showplace Square, development in the area must balance the need for goods movement with the safety and mobility of pedestrians and bicyclists.

The project site sits at the nexus of Showplace Square, SoMa, and Mission Bay…[and as] an especially large city block fronting six city streets, the project site has the unique opportunity to improve the connections between neighborhoods.

As currently designed, the Project would bring significantly more trucks, cars, bikes and pedestrians to the area without improving connections for them. The proposed design would foreclose opportunities for a walkable, urban frontage along 155 De Haro and fronting the project’s own site, should the use ever change from a last-mile facility.

Given the project’s location, size, street frontage, and goods movement activity, Department staff recommend connecting the street grid by extending Alameda and Carolina Streets. This recommendation would enhance access for deliveries, vehicles, and pedestrians and is consistent with public input to the Showplace Square Open Space Plan update.

In addition, to provide safe access between the aforementioned neighborhoods, Planning would like Amazon to add pedestrian and bicycle safety features along Berry Street. The Department is recommending that Amazon explore the inclusion of “a small retailer or coffee shop” overlooking the proposed open space, to “greatly enhance the compatibility of the building with surrounding context.” And as “the proposed number of parking spaces [at the facility] would induce a significant number of trips and conflict with City policy of prioritizing sustainable travel modes,” Planning is recommending that the proposed number of off-street parking spaces for facility staff be reduced.

https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/900-7th-Street-Amazon-Center-Site-Plan.jpg

https://socketsite.com/archives/2021/04/no-red-flags-for-amazons-big-project-as-proposed-but.html

San Francisco continues with the stick approach--force people out of cars by making parking them, washing them, and fueling them near impossible, and taking away as many of the traffic lanes and even streets they require as possible, rather than the carrot approach of making transit efficient, as inexpensive as possible, reliable and safe so that people will prefer to use it. It'll be interesting to see just how "progressive" Mr. Bezos really is when its a hassle for him (and his work force finds another cause for complaint, namely that they can't come to work by their chosen means).

Pedestrian
Apr 30, 2021, 10:36 PM
Meanwhile, literally up the street, there's:

Design District Lab Development on the Boards
April 28, 2021

Plans to raze the 22-foot-tall World Gym and office building, which fronts De Haro from 15th to 16th Streets, in the design district at the base of Potrero Hill, have been drafted.

As envisioned by Aralon Properties and massed below, a 5-story laboratory building would rise up to 68 feet in height upon the Showplace Square site which is zoned for PDR (Production, Distribution and Repair) use.

And in addition to 180,000 square feet of lab space, the development as proposed includes a basement garage for 130 cars, with a storage room for 19 bikes and a 17,800-square-foot roof deck for the building’s tenants.

[Now]
https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/250-De-Haro-Street-Site.jpg

https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/250-De-Haro-Street.jpg

[Proposed]
https://socketsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/250-De-Haro-Street-Massing.jpg

https://socketsite.com/archives/2021/04/design-district-lab-infill-on-the-boards.html

iamfishhead
May 1, 2021, 6:40 PM
If you are a sizable, youngish male who looks street smart and isn't carrying tempting "bling" including an exposed cell phone, there's no reason you should.

Fair point. I'm more average sized, but I do work out and have generally not had problems. I knew a woman who was 5'2 and lived in the Tenderloin and she was pretty vocal about how she didn't always feel safe there.

crazy amy b
May 1, 2021, 6:44 PM
Bling? Did we time warp back to 2003?

Pedestrian
May 1, 2021, 10:45 PM
Bling? Did we time warp back to 2003?

I searched for a synonym for general items of obvious value. You got one? I'll substitute it.

What happened in 2003? Didn't seem special to me as it passed (except it was the beginning of the climb out of the dot-com crash in the Bay Area).

craigs
May 1, 2021, 11:44 PM
San Francisco continues with the stick approach--force people out of cars by making parking them, washing them, and fueling them near impossible, and taking away as many of the traffic lanes and even streets they require as possible, rather than the carrot approach of making transit efficient, as inexpensive as possible, reliable and safe so that people will prefer to use it. It'll be interesting to see just how "progressive" Mr. Bezos really is when its a hassle for him (and his work force finds another cause for complaint, namely that they can't come to work by their chosen means).

San Francisco continues the good work of moving away from the mistake of mid-20th century auto-centricity: providing space for alternative forms of transportation on shared public roadways such as bike lanes, red transit lanes, etc.; pedestrianizing some streets to provide space for residents to be outdoors during the pandemic; upzoning auto-centric parcels in desirable areas to enable their highest economic use; and turning street spaces formerly used for the public storage of private automobiles into parklets where San Franciscans can gather and eat, socialize, read a book, etc.

Pedestrian
May 2, 2021, 2:59 AM
San Francisco continues the good work of moving away from the mistake of mid-20th century auto-centricity: providing space for alternative forms of transportation on shared public roadways such as bike lanes, red transit lanes, etc.; pedestrianizing some streets to provide space for residents to be outdoors during the pandemic; upzoning auto-centric parcels in desirable areas to enable their highest economic use; and turning street spaces formerly used for the public storage of private automobiles into parklets where San Franciscans can gather and eat, socialize, read a book, etc.

Yeah, yeah yeah. How do you get to your out-of-town location, teleportation? I bet you own a car. I don't (in SF) as it happens so I guess I take the moral high ground if I'm right. But still my Uber or my ZipCar need auto lanes to move in and places to gas up and park and do what they must, elitist libs like you aside.

San Francisco was designed for horses, carriages and cable cars. The past is beside the point. The overwhelming choice of San Franciscans for getting around town is cars. All the rest is fantasy. And in spite of it all, very few car-owning city residents have abandoned that mode with all the efforts of city government to make them miserable.

craigs
May 2, 2021, 4:35 AM
Yeah, yeah yeah. How do you get to your out-of-town location, teleportation? I bet you own a car. I don't (in SF) as it happens so I guess I take the moral high ground if I'm right. But still my Uber or my ZipCar need auto lanes to move in and places to gas up and park and do what they must, elitist libs like you aside.

San Francisco was designed for horses, carriages and cable cars. The past is beside the point. The overwhelming choice of San Franciscans for getting around town is cars. All the rest is fantasy. And in spite of it all, very few car-owning city residents have abandoned that mode with all the efforts of city government to make them miserable.
Okay, boomer.

If approving of San Francisco's ongoing reversal of the mistaken auto-centricity of the mid-20th century makes me an "elitist lib" then so be it. Proudly so.

homebucket
May 2, 2021, 5:31 AM
I own multiple cars for trips out of the City, but my preferred method for getting around in the City is not by a car. Usually walking, biking, or riding public transit. It's a more enjoyable way to experience the City anyway.

timbad
May 2, 2021, 5:54 AM
...
San Francisco continues with the stick approach--force people out of cars by making parking them, washing them, and fueling them near impossible, and taking away as many of the traffic lanes and even streets they require as possible, rather than the carrot approach of making transit efficient, as inexpensive as possible, reliable and safe so that people will prefer to use it.

I don't think it's accurate to say there is no carrot - in fact, at least some of what you perceive of as a stick *is* the carrot: giving street space over to transit, bikes and sidewalks is an effort to make those work more efficiently, safely, and pleasantly. I have appreciated it where it has happened.

we've already talked about the declining need for car fueling, so I think that is a non-issue (in fact, is probably smart planning to slowly phase out and replace with more productive uses). although maybe some thought should be given to converting gas stations to charging stations, if it hasn't already?

parking demand may also drop considerably if on-demand self-driving cars really do become common. seems we're headed that way, though this is still somewhat conjecture I think?

someone recently posted data that showed that per-capita car registration in the City is (slowly) declining, so there is that too.

craigs
May 2, 2021, 6:27 PM
I think the city is moving in the right direction when it comes to mobility.

Pedestrian
May 2, 2021, 8:38 PM
Some pics from my walk today:

Corner of Turk & Larkin (where the Kahn & Keville tire store used to be):
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/001023489329/media/1698680036589939/medium/1619987588/enhance

5M--both buildings
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/001023489329/media/1698680049205403/medium/1619987583/enhance

5M--the office tower
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/001023489329/media/1698680015618720/medium/1619987582/enhance

5M--the affordable housing
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/001023489329/media/1698680049205499/medium/1619987590/enhance

By the way, I also went by the 50 Jones building at Jones & Turk. They had 3 security guards in front to protect would-be renters from the neighborhood habitué's . . . and from the looks of things they needed them. The Tenderloin appears to me, after a 5 months absence, worse than I've ever seen it. People staggering in the street, tents everywhere and garbage, and obvious drug deals and drug use. Contrary to what I said previously about Market St, that was the most sedate side of the building by far (although the check cashing place on the corner of Jones & Market had its usual "corner boy" ready to supply your chemical cravings). I can't imagine people willing to pay the kind of rent I expect this new building will be charging to have to pass through the gauntlet on Jones they will have to to get home.

timbad
May 2, 2021, 9:58 PM
^ welcome back and thanks for the pics!

twinpeaks
May 3, 2021, 5:21 AM
Okay, boomer.

If approving of San Francisco's ongoing reversal of the mistaken auto-centricity of the mid-20th century makes me an "elitist lib" then so be it. Proudly so.

I'm with you. So much public space is dedicated for car storage and traffic, it's waste of valuable resources. I'm a gen-X, but fully support public transport and use it as much as possible around the city and via BART to Oakland. I own two cars, but mainly use it for commute and trips outside the City.

twinpeaks
May 3, 2021, 5:22 AM
I own multiple cars for trips out of the City, but my preferred method for getting around in the City is not by a car. Usually walking, biking, or riding public transit. It's a more enjoyable way to experience the City anyway.

:cheers:

crazy amy b
May 3, 2021, 5:30 AM
Yeah, yeah yeah. How do you get to your out-of-town location, teleportation? I bet you own a car. I don't (in SF) as it happens so I guess I take the moral high ground if I'm right. But still my Uber or my ZipCar need auto lanes to move in and places to gas up and park and do what they must, elitist libs like you aside.

San Francisco was designed for horses, carriages and cable cars. The past is beside the point. The overwhelming choice of San Franciscans for getting around town is cars. All the rest is fantasy. And in spite of it all, very few car-owning city residents have abandoned that mode with all the efforts of city government to make them miserable.

Lie Lie Lie

https://sfgov.org/scorecards//transportation/non-private-auto-mode-share

But I guess that's normal behavior for elitist cons like yourself.

Imagine owning property in two different states and calling someone else elitist. :haha:

Pedestrian
May 3, 2021, 8:03 AM
I own multiple cars for trips out of the City, but my preferred method for getting around in the City is not by a car. Usually walking, biking, or riding public transit. It's a more enjoyable way to experience the City anyway.

I'm in almost the same situation. I own 2 cars and 2 motorcycles. Both cars and one cycle (scooter really) are in AZ in my garage. I keep one scooter in SF for shopping and trips across town. I walk most places or Uber/Lyft--today I walked from Van Ness to Yerba Buena Park. I belong to ZipCar for when I need a full-sized vehicle (let's say I buy something bulky like a new TV).

"Public transit" is another matter. I used to be a frequent rider, buying a monthly pass and once I commuted daily on BART. But I haven't been on Muni since COVID came along and likely won't feel comfortable doing so until it's well into the history books.

At 75, biking is not a practical mode of transportation. I don't have a bike though have had random thoughts of getting one for short pleasure rides in AZ but it is not ever going to be my way to get from point A to Point B at this stage of life. And I think there are plenty of San Franciscans who feel the same way. Bikes are practical transportation mostly for the young and healthy and a large part of the city population is neither. The MTA and Planning Dept. need to remember that.

Pedestrian
May 3, 2021, 8:18 AM
Lie Lie Lie

https://sfgov.org/scorecards//transportation/non-private-auto-mode-share

But I guess that's normal behavior for elitist cons like yourself.

Imagine owning property in two different states and calling someone else elitist. :haha:

So in your 8th post you are calling someone who's been participating here for a decade or so a liar which means, in case you are so ignorant as not to know, an intentional teller of untruths. You are rude, nasty and don't know what you are talking about. None of your posts that I've seen contributed anything to the discussion here about building so one needs to ask why you crawled out from under your rock onto this site?


Despite everything, San Franciscans are driving more
By Adam Brinklow Feb 4, 2019, 3:31pm PST

Last week, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency (SFMTA) released its annual SF Mobility Trends Report, a regular assessment of how San Francisco is getting by when it comes to getting anywhere.

Compiled by SFMTA staff, the report assesses which methods of transit SF residents are most likely to use, employing everything from traffic counts to official ridership stats from transit agencies to Census data about bike use . . . .

Among the conclusions:

On a certain timeline, mass transit and bike use is up in SF [this was just before COVID hit]. According to the report, since 2010 San Franciscan’s use of bikes is up six percent, and use of mass transit (BART, Muni, and Caltrain combined) is up five percent, in contrast to a national trend that’s seen mass transit use decline across the United States.

However, since the turn of the century, mass transit is still down. In the longer run, SF’s mass transit use is down since 2002. In 2003 the city saw a sudden, sharp decline of over 60,000 rides per week and has never reached previous highs since, even as the population increases.

Bicycle use in the city is down in the short run. Since 2010, the number of bike commutes in the city is up, and that figure has also more than doubled since the city first started keeping track in 2005. However, the number of bike trips is also down more than 24 percent since its peak in 2015, a precipitous drop in the short term.

More often people are just driving. Since 2010, vehicular traffic entering the city is up 27 percent. “Vehicle registration per capita has declined by three percent,” says the report. “But since the overall population has grown, the total number of vehicles registered in the city have grown by six percent, adding 26,000 more vehicles.” Subsequently, congestion—measured as both average vehicle speed and peak speed—is up too.

City Hall is quick to point the finger at ride-hailing apps for much of the increased congestion. The report concludes that companies like Lyft and Uber “represent 15 percent of all intra-SF trips.” The report also says that approximately 45,000 Lyft and Uber drivers are active in the city, noting that they “account for about half of the total increase in congestion in SF between 2010 and 2016, with population and employment responsible for the other half.”

The SFMTA’s accounting does its best to accentuate the positive, noting that, despite everything and in defiance of national trends, the city’s preferred methods of transit use are indeed up over the last decade.

However, it’s still clear from the analysis that City Hall has trouble breaking San Franciscans from their reliance on cars . . . .
https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/4/18211063/sfmta-mobility-trends-2018-2019-cars-bikes

Looked at another way,

the proportion of San Francisco households who own zero cars increased from 28.6 percent in 2000 to 31.4 percent in 2012
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2014/08/15/car-free-households-are-booming-in-san-francisco/

Turn that around and it means that in that year 68.6% of city households did own a car which, is, as I said, a majority. And that's in spite of all the inconveniences the city throws at car owners, starting with the constant risk of theft and vandalism if you don't have a secure garage to park it in. It is likely that until COVID, car ownership declined a few more percentage points but that still means a clear majority of households did own one. And since COVID, my guess would be that the trend may well have reversed, given the viral hazards of riding transit.

Finally, I went to your link and what I learned there was how pathetically few trips are actually made by bike--it appears to be just a couple of percent as I suspected (although the graph is terrible and hard to read with it's multiple shades of just 2 colors). And yet the city is gradually turning it's streets over to them.