The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[benvui]

I placed a little comment on a the T&T article today concerning a down power pole on St-George street. Might as well paste it here as well, although it may have been talked about several times before.



Video of the incident available here: http://www.youtube.com/newschaser

Avatar...done!

I agree, I think most municipalities should be doing this, I'm thinking of Shediac in particular as I drive down Main street every day and I think how much nicer the town would look if the power lines weren't there. I think this is an easy way to "beautify" any community. The street I live on in Shediac the power lines run behind the houses and it makes the street feel cozier.

[MonctonRad]

Millennium Trail development reaches third stage
Published Thursday December 24th, 2009

Trail will eventually loop around city, provide easy walking, biking access throughout
By Eric Lewis
Times & Transcript Staff

When Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc ran for office in 2008, he made accelerating trail development in the city one of the key planks of his campaign.

Heading into 2010, the third phase of Millennium Trail, which will eventually loop around the city, will be completed.

The City of Moncton has budgeted $1.49 million in 2010 for trail development.

In the last two summers, the city's recreation, parks, tourism and culture department has completed the Humphrey's Brook trail, which runs from Lewisville Road through Mill Road and ends at Harrisville Boulevard, and the Northwest Trail, which runs between Charles Lutes Road and Berry Mills Road, linking the various neighbourhoods of the city's ever-growing northwest end.

Eventually, these trails, along with Riverfront Trail, will all be linked, and they'll connect the city's other major parks, Mapleton, Irishtown and Centennial, linking various neighbourhoods along the way.

In summer of 2010, Rod Higgins, the city's assistant general manager for recreation, parks and culture, says the city is targeting two areas for trail work.

One will link Berry Mills Road through just north of Centennial Park to Vaughn Harvey Boulevard and on to Riverfront Park.

The other will lead from Mapleton Park through Université de Moncton to the Humphrey's Brook Trail.

"What we're trying to do is trying to start making some of the city centre connections," he says.

Creating these trails isn't just a matter of clearing some brushes to make a path through trees. Land agreements have to be reached when a trail will cross through land the city doesn't own. In this cases, right-of-way deals, easements, land purchases or expropriations can be necessary.

Higgins says the trail system is being planned in areas with rivers, creeks, sewer easements and power easements so the city isn't having to go through residents' backyards or in other areas that might require more difficult land decisions.

One challenge the city has been faced with is how to get across Highway 2, TransCanada Highway, at Harrisville Boulevard.

Higgins says there is a culvert under the highway, so the city is considering using that to lead the trail right under the road.

Asked why a trail system is so important, Higgins says he believes it's an integral part of the city's health and quality of life.

"It's important to have good roads and that sort of thing, but they also want to be healthy, and people also want to get out of their car and get into some of the natural areas," he says. "Every time we have meetings and talk to people, it's a very strong message that people are giving us that quality of life and what I call green infrastructure is just as important as the hard infrastructure."

Higgins says not only is walking or biking a healthy option, but leaving the car at home reduces pollution and a person's carbon footprint.

"Ideally, in the future, you'll be able to walk out your door and within five minutes get on a bike or walk and you're on a trail system that you can go to work or go to downtown or any of the points of significant destination."

Higgins jokes that the Millennium Trail is his retirement project that will take another five to 10 years to complete.

He says his department does what it can each year with the money that is available in the budget

Personal note: This is all very positive.......The trails so far have been constructed to high standards and as they become interconnected, it will make it very easy for cyclists to travel through the city in a safe manner, well away from heavy street traffic. I enjoy the trails that are already constructed. I strongly believe that Moncton will end up with the most extensive trail network in the region.

And with that, I would like to wish everyone:

Joyeux Noel a tu et tous et tout le monde

[pierremoncton]

Creating these trails isn't just a matter of clearing some brushes to make a path through trees. Land agreements have to be reached when a trail will cross through land the city doesn't own. In this cases, right-of-way deals, easements, land purchases or expropriations can be necessary.

I'm really excited about new trails and new connections between them -- I'm glad that the city is placing importance on this and I definitely support having tax dollars spent on these projects.

Having said that, I really have trouble with expropriation (I recall [perhaps erroneously] Harper campaigning on property rights but nothing ever materialized). There are very few instances where I feel that it's justified and I don't think that trails fall under the "acceptable" column. But I'd hate to see a trail cut into sections and becoming useless, so I hope that all landowners will cooperate.

Now I'm waiting for the Trans Canada Trail to start growing in both directions. I'm not sure of the Riverview end, but it's been a dead end in Dieppe (near Dover) for a few years.

[mylesmalley]

Took this picture about a week ago from the top floor of the Crowne Plaza.

http://www.marketingsociety.ca/maps/moncton/courthouse_from_crowne_plaza.jpg

[BlackYear]

http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/news/article/902513

Anyone know where Codiac RCMP is moving to in 2010 or have any ideas where they should move to? According to the article, they have 5 possible locations. :shrug:

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Probably to some nondescript vacant downtown office space. It's only the "courts and records" division that's moving so I imagine that this is mostly just clerical staff that is involved.

This just highlights the need for a new police HQ. I understand that the city won't commit to looking for a space for a new building until the metropolitan police study is completed and I know that the RCMP are expensive but it would be difficult to go back to municipal policing now. With the Codiac RCMP apparently being the most effective police force in the country (in terms of rate of solved crimes), I think we should just move on and start planning for the future.

As I've said before, with the provincial lock-up moving to Shediac, the old jail location should be considered for the new police HQ.............It's right next to the new courthouse.

[travelbug]

http://img101.photolava.com/2009/12/28/canadalkl-e662gh8j.jpg

I need help guys. Is this Moncton?

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Nope..........

[travelbug]

Any ideas?

[mylesmalley]

Doesn't look like Halifax. If it isn't, it definitely isn't east of Quebec City.

[MonctonRad]

Abridged from the Moncton T&T

Construction growth means success for city
Published Monday December 28th, 2009
Cole Hobson

It was a banner year for construction in the Moncton area in 2009 and it will be exciting to see what some of that development does for our region as we move into 2010 and beyond.

Over $210 million in building permits were issued in the past year in the City of Moncton alone, including many big ticket items such as for a new $17.9 million elementary school on Ryan Road, the over $10.5 million track and field stadium at Université de Moncton and a new academic building at Crandall University, valued at over $11 million.

However, what is also encouraging is the amount of residential development that took place in the past year.

I recently sat down with members of the Greater Moncton Planning District Commission for a look back at the year that was in construction and residential development. One thing that jumped out at me was the number of active and growing subdivisions in this area, which is only helping add to our urban and residential growth.

Approximately 1,084 new building lots were registered from 286 approved subdivision plans in 2009, with major areas of residential growth being the north-west area beyond Wheeler Boulevard, along Shediac Road, Carriage Hill in Riverview and around the Fox Creek Golf Club in Dieppe.

In the entire region that falls under the GMPDC mandate (Moncton, Dieppe, Riverview, Salisbury, Petitcodiac, Alma, Hillsborough, Riverside-Albert and unincorporated areas), there were 417 new single unit residential dwellings slated for construction in 2009 at a value of over $71.7 million and another 1,050 residential projects valued at over $77 million. In total, including the $210 million in Moncton building permits, GMPDC estimated there would be a total of $360 million in construction by the end of 2009.

It's encouraging to see so many people looking to build in Moncton and it will only help drive overall development in the region. As members of the GMPDC told me, it's the big ticket items which help drive residential growth, which makes sense. New opportunities in our city lead to increased excitement and more people coming into the area, which leads to a healthy construction sector, which then trickles down into other aspects of our region's success.

It seems likely that the construction industry probably won't be as strong in 2010 as it was in the past year and the number of large-scale projects starting up will be fewer, but with so many active subdivisions still prime for development joining the already plentiful options that exist for someone looking to move into the city, it seems logical that Metro Moncton will continue to see strong overall and residential growth in the New Year.

[Dmajackson]

http://img101.photolava.com/2009/12/28/canadalkl-e662gh8j.jpg

I need help guys. Is this Moncton?

Where did you find that photo?

All I can say is its defenitely not Moncton, SJ, Freddy, Charlottetown or Halifax. Maybe Sydney or somewheres out west (it appears to have a river on the far right).

[kirjtc2]

It's not Sydney...it doesn't have a riverfront highway like that.

I was thinking it may be St. John's (which kinda sorta has one), but a quick look at Google Earth doesn't match up with that photo either.

[Wishblade]

Im pretty sure its Quebec City, but Im not totally certain.

[BlackYear]

Quebec would be a pretty good guess, because those power lines in the background appears to be pointed straight towards NBPower.:hell:

Sorry really bad joke!

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

I appreciate your joke Budyser......:haha:

I can't believe what an idiot Shawn Graham is. :koko:

The only way to stop this NB Power deal is to provoke a Liberal caucus revolt. This may still be possible.

re: the photo; I'm pretty sure that it doesn't match any Canadian city east of the PQ/Ontario border.

[mylesmalley]

Graham's problem isn't poor decision-making. It's poor communication and implementation of his policy decisions.

[MonctonRad]

Graham's problem isn't poor decision-making. It's poor communication and implementation of his policy decisions.

Shawn's main problem is that he is reckless and dangerous with his policies. He is in to much hurry to implement his "agenda for change". He does not spend any time thinking about the ramifications and potential consequences of his decisions.

For instance, in health care he went way overboard in his consolidation of the health care districts. There were formerly eight health care regions. I think that you could have made a valid arguement to reduce the number of regions to four (or five) geograhic regions and thus have reduced administrative costs to some degree.

I think the regions could have been
- Moncton (English) and Miramichi
- Moncton (French) and the north shore
- Fredericton and the upper river valley
- Saint John and the Fundy coast.

I think this could have worked very well...........

Instead, he divided the province into only two regions (English and French) and then added insult to injury by locating the relevant administrations in non hospital remote settings in Miramichi and Bathurst. This decision was absurd and poorly thought out and resulted in two huge problems that I don't think he even saw coming.

(1) - the administrations of the two districts are now geographically remote from all the major hospitals in their regions, which means that senior physicians and hospital department heads no longer interact on a daily basis with their administrators. People are still unsure of how the new chain of command works; decisions are thus not being made on a timely basis and institutional paralysis has resulted. This situation is not fully evident to the public yet, because a large hospital is akin to a large oil tanker on the ocean; if it loses power, forward momentum will keep the ship moving forward for some time but, at some point, the ship will start to drift and could founder on the rocks.

(2) - by having just two health care regions and by having them linguistically based, you are creating de facto (if not de jure) duality in health care in NB. I know that this was not Shawn's intent but this is what he has nonetheless created. The ramifications of this for the province are huge. I am very concerned about this. There is great danger that all power and all tertiary level services will ultimately be centralized in only two principal teaching hospitals in the province, the GDH (French) and the SJRH (English). All other hospitals in the province could be reduced to secondary community hospitals only.

I have often thought it to be a relative strength of this province that there are four (or five) strong geographically distributed hospitals serving the population. In Nova Scotia, everything is centralized in Halifax, which is to the detriment of at least half the population of that province. There are many very competent and skilled physicians at both the Moncton Hospital and the Chalmers Hospital that might leave the province if this scenario indeed pans out. In the short and intermediate terms, this would create chaos in the health care system.

This is the problem I have with Shawn Graham.......he is both reckless and naive. He is not experienced enough to understand the political and bureaucratic consequences of his decisions.

[ErickMontreal]

Quebec would be a pretty good guess, because those power lines in the background appears to be pointed straight towards NBPower.:hell:

Sorry really bad joke!

Anyway, I sure think Quebec will find another way around to export our energy down south. Quebec always had a great business relationship, in many matters, with NYC, Vermont, Massachusetts and New-Hampshire as well. To me the time has come to back off and to reach an agreement with our long-time partners.

United-States banks seen a true opportunity in HQ from the beginning in financing roughly all the projects, obviously that was not the case for the Canadian banks.

At the end of the day, NB Power and NB as whole are far to be the end of the world for HQ. I still think if the buyer would have been Hydro-One for instance, the opposition may have been less virulent... . .

[MonctonRad]

Abridged from the Moncton T&T

Retail still strong in Metro
Published Tuesday December 29th, 2009

Location, high disposable income generates $2 billion in retail sales in 2009
By James Foster
Times & Transcript Staff

Metro Moncton's retail sector was "the little economic engine that could" yet again in 2009, bringing even greater attention to Metro Moncton's retail phenomenon that sometimes defies economic logic.

For example, Metro Moncton has lower family income, on average, than Fredericton and Halifax and about the same as Saint John, yet retail sales per household top any other jurisdiction in the Maritimes by a wide margin and far exceeds even the national average. That's mostly thanks to the lower cost of living in Metro Moncton. For example, the average price of a MLS home in November hit $178,000 in Saint John; $157,000 in Fredericton; but just $145,000 in Moncton.

There's every indication retail will continue to thrive into 2010 and beyond, thanks to our large catchment area, higher than average disposable income and larger population. Metro's retail market has been studied to death, including during this past year, and the findings have been almost unanimous.

According to FPmarkets, Metro's retail sales in 2009 should come in at about 26 per cent higher than the national average, with projections for 2011 of six per cent above the Canadian average, and 16 per cent higher in 2014. All three figures are higher than any other marketplace in the Maritimes. More than $2 billion was spent in Metro Moncton stores in 2009 alone, which works out to about $38,000 per household, higher than Fredericton ($36,800) and much higher than Saint John ($25,700) and Halifax ($29,400.)

"Part of our retail success story comes from having such a large catchment area," John Thompson, CEO of Enterprise Greater Moncton, said at the launch of EGM's retail strategy, launched in August.

"We have over 1.3 million people within a 2.5 hour drive, and these people come to Greater Moncton to spend their retail dollars."

The report identifies challenges and opportunities for Metro Moncton's retail sector.

Downtown Moncton is faced with a very low mass of people living there. This will change as several major apartment complexes are now being built. However, the downtown needs a major anchor store to draw people and spur further development, the study suggests.

Similarly, in Riverview there is no clearly defined retail experience within its downtown and the Findlay Park area is expected to draw the bulk of future retail development, and not only because there is little available land in the downtown.

Dieppe has the space, including in their new uptown area around Dieppe Boulevard and the downtown around the intersection of Champlain Street and Acadie Avenue, but again, no major anchor in either location. A three-year project to completely reconfigure and rebuild Paul Street could also spur new retail development in that area, though the EGM study recommends that Dieppe not try to recreate the "big box" shopping experience that already exists in Moncton's north end but to vie to offer something different and unique to Dieppe.

EGM's study interviewed a host of people on a number of retail-related questions, provoking interesting responses, particularly as to why retail was struggling in recent years in so many areas of Canada and around the world, yet sales are up in Metro. They cited the area's perfect location, strong employment growth, higher disposable income due to the low cost of living, rising population, major developments like the new casino, and its two hospitals and two universities which attract people from all over the Maritimes.

Shiftcentral's 2005 study of Metro's retail environment foresaw the continued growth of "destination shopping," or the creation of a shopping experience that attracts shoppers from far and wide, like Champlain Place or Wheeler Park. But that study also noted that other Maritime municipalities have also jumped on the destination-shopping bandwagon and that Moncton will have to fight to retain its throne, something the EGM document suggests the region is poised to do this coming year and beyond

[mylesmalley]

:previous:
I have to say, I find this topic pretty depressing. Also, try to look past my disjointed writing style. It's 4 am, I'm tired, and I stopped editing my writing when I finished my last exam on the 18th.


I should have qualified my previous statement. I'm not a supporter of all of his decisions. The government and party have bungled some pretty significant policy decisions. However, I do feel that in a lot of situations, their failures have not been a result of poor decision-making, but rather because of poor communication.

I can't say I entirely disagree with you with regard to the health region reorganization. The only argument I can muster in support of it is that of language and politics. I fully realize the danger in creating a duality in a province of this size. However, the old system was criticized for not offering identical services in both languages. Consolidating into two language-based health boards was probably the most effective way of avoiding a fight over this duality. Granted, language should be the least important consideration when dealing with healthcare, but that's not the nature of politics in this province. As for the locating of administrative offices in relatively far flung locations, I can only chalk that up to politics as well. This province is deeply divided along linguistic, urban/rural, north/south, east/west, moncton/saint john/fredericton, big city/small city, liberal/conservative etc lines. By dividing the health system along linguistic lines, that would logically create a geographic imbalance in people's minds, with both systems being centred on southern large cities. Politically, the smartest way to avoid that was to balance it out by putting administration up north.

The government's downfall in almost every controversial decision they've made have been two-fold. A failure to communicate the benefits of the new policy and the drawbacks of the current system, and a failure to at least appear open to public input before making the decision.

The French Immersion debacle of a few years ago immediately comes to mind. Having gone through the program myself, I'm well aware of it's shortcomings. I was completely in favour of the proposed changes, which I still think were for the best. However, the plan was implemented, not announced and opened for input. People react badly to change they feel is imposed.

Still with education. People are still complaining about the proposed changes to UNBSJ. That one was a little more difficult, but again, can be chalked up to those two factors. The plan was announced without a clear explanation of it's benefits and the drawbacks of the status-quo, and there was no public perception that the decision was open to public input.

Uranium mining - Province failed to communicate, appeared to only care about big business and not 'the little guy'. Province failed to directly address the concerns of the public, especially the extremely vocal opposition (who were in many cases completely unburdened by facts or reason). Result: public outcry, government caves, big scandal.

Economic development, stimulus spending, parks, corporate welfare, taxes... just about every catastrophe could have been avoided with some proper public relations, and an open attitude towards the views of the public.


I wont' comment as to whether I'm happy with the NB Power sale or not. Honestly, I haven't really come off the fence entirely yet. What I will say though is that it too fits exactly with my previous statements about their decision-making process. So far, the process has been:

Negotiate and sign the MOU in secret, announce it to the public with an embarrassingly patronizing marketing campaign, THEN ask what the public thinks and do 'damage control' public relations.

When it should have been:

Communicate the real need for change, the necessity of the decision, the net benefits, and assurances that the province would come out on top in the end. Follow that with extensive public consultations, coupled with a public relations campaign that actually tries to address people's concerns. Followed by signing the MOU.

I truly believe that had that been done properly, the NBP decision would be a relatively smooth process. Or at least not a daily-mob-at-the-legislature type of event. Even if public opinion was completely against, following the second approach would have given them an easy out. In fact I'd argue that taking a more mature approach would be a benefit to their credibility - even if the deal died on the table.


Anyway, that's my two cents.

Happy New Years, everybody.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:
I have to say, I find this topic pretty depressing.

I have to agree with you on this one........I am depressed too, mostly because I am by nature a Luddite and don't appreciate radical change unless absolutely necessary. Shawn Graham however seems to thrive on upsetting the applecart.


I do feel that in a lot of situations, their failures have not been a result of poor decision-making, but rather because of poor communication.

Their communication skills are definitely lacking. No one likes radical decision making being presented as a fait accompli or in a "like it or lump it" manner. It makes the government appear arrogant and insensitive. I think though that in the majority of circumstances, their decision making was also flawed, reckless and ill considered as well.

I fully realize the danger in creating a duality in a province of this size. However, the old system was criticized for not offering identical services in both languages. Consolidating into two language-based health boards was probably the most effective way of avoiding a fight over this duality.

I have to disagree with you completely on this one.........By creating two linguistically based health care corporations, I think that this will create even more discord in the health care system. Shawn has created de facto duality while at the same time claiming that duality does not exist, hence the current charter challenge by the Acadians in the courts. This would not have come about if he had left the corporations as being geographically based rather than linguistically based. This was a completely reckless and politically naive decision!!!!

As for the locating of administrative offices in relatively far flung locations, I can only chalk that up to politics as well. This province is deeply divided along linguistic, urban/rural, north/south, east/west, moncton/saint john/fredericton, big city/small city, liberal/conservative etc lines. By dividing the health system along linguistic lines, that would logically create a geographic imbalance in people's minds, with both systems being centred on southern large cities. Politically, the smartest way to avoid that was to balance it out by putting administration up north.

Yes, absolutely this is what he was trying to do and I understand that. The unintended fallout of this however is that as workers in the system, we no longer know how the system works. We no longer have any real relationship with our administrators. We don't know them and they don't know us. Because the administrators are unfamiliar with the workers and even with the roles of individual facilities (hospitals) in the corporation, it can be very difficult communicating with them the gravity of problems when they arise. This leads to indecision and delay. The system is adrift and sooner or later critical errors will be made.

The French Immersion debacle of a few years ago immediately comes to mind. Having gone through the program myself, I'm well aware of it's shortcomings. I was completely in favour of the proposed changes, which I still think were for the best. However, the plan was implemented, not announced and opened for input. People react badly to change they feel is imposed.

This is the one decision that the Graham government made that I was in favour of. Again, there were consequences to this that Shawn did not anticipate, such as the flight of students from the anglophone to the francophone school system.

Still with education. People are still complaining about the proposed changes to UNBSJ. That one was a little more difficult, but again, can be chalked up to those two factors. The plan was announced without a clear explanation of it's benefits and the drawbacks of the status-quo, and there was no public perception that the decision was open to public input.

Can't disagree with you there. He didn't anticipate however the strong reaction from SJ about the "downgrading" of their university to a polytech. The concerns were likely overblown and with better communication, this controversy might have been avoided as I think it was the intention of the government that there would still be liberal arts at the UNBSJ campus.

I wont' comment as to whether I'm happy with the NB Power sale or not. Honestly, I haven't really come off the fence entirely yet. What I will say though is that it too fits exactly with my previous statements about their decision-making process. So far, the process has been:

Negotiate and sign the MOU in secret, announce it to the public with an embarrassingly patronizing marketing campaign, THEN ask what the public thinks and do 'damage control' public relations.

When it should have been:

Communicate the real need for change, the necessity of the decision, the net benefits, and assurances that the province would come out on top in the end. Follow that with extensive public consultations, coupled with a public relations campaign that actually tries to address people's concerns. Followed by signing the MOU.

You should go into politics. :D Yes, that is how it should have been done. This just further highlights Shawn's inexperience and naivity.

The general public has had enough of the chaos of his administration. A good part of the NB Power debacle just reflects the publics feeling that this is the "straw that broke the camels back". He should not have tried to do this before the next election.

As far as the NB Power/HQ deal itself is concerned, I fully appreciate how a 30% rate cut would benefit large industrial users, but I am not convinced that there are dozens of new industrial enterprises beating on NB's doors just waiting for the NB Power sale to become finalized.

Aside from this rate cut, there is very little to commend this deal.
- There will be job losses at NB generating stations such as Dalhousie and I presume also at the NB Power headquarters in Fredericton.
-The status of Lepreau is uncertain.
-There is no real guarantee that Mactaquac will be upgraded.
-Coleson Cove and Belledune can be closed with only one year's notice.
-The potential for future revenue generation for NB government coffers from NB Power will be lost.
-The province will no longer be in a position to formulate policy regarding it's own energy future.
-HQ is only interested in selling us it's surplus hydroelectric power. There will be no future investment in wind or tidal power projects in NB.
-I really don't like giving HQ tax exempt crown corporation status when all profits from the corporation will be flowing back to Quebec rather than being put to use here in NB. This is pure folly!!!

In any event, you can tell I'm dead set against this deal. Shawn is inexperienced, naive and a fool. This deal could cripple this province.

Now I'm really depressed. :haha: In any event, Happy New Year to you as well. :tup:

[MonctonRad]

Abridged from the T&T

Down East Coffee expands on St. George
Published Wednesday December 30th, 2009

Notre-Dame based coffee experts plan big expansion in Moncton
By James Foster
Times & Transcript Staff

The former liquor store on St. George Street will soon be serving up drinks again, only of a different kind.

The old St. George Street liquor store will be renovated by Down East Coffee of Notre Dame. Down East Coffee has purchased the building and plans to make it their new roasting house, with their other coffee-related businesses and actual coffee sales on site, including a drive-through window.

"We're so excited," Germaine Montague, who along with her husband and roastmaster Terry Montague, founded the business which is based in Notre Dame and will remain headquartered there. They also operate Café Cognito on Main Street in Moncton among their other coffee ventures.

"I love the neighbourhood. I love the area. And it's a big, beautiful building."

Down East Coffee roasts and blends estate, organic, fair trade and other coffees for local, national and international wholesale, retail and mail order markets. The expansion marks a significant push forward for the company, which will now have ample space to expand, as well as a new state-of-the-art roaster that was hand-made for them to complement their other equipment, ample parking and an excellent location.

It took more than a year for them to consummate the purchase of the building, which will be undergoing renovations for the next few months in preparation for a grand opening in the spring.

The building will be divided into a new roasting house, a catering service, cafe with a drive-through operated by their son Caley of Caley Espresso, offices, a boutique with coffee equipment, an equipment repair facility and the new home of Coffee Contact, which specializes in espresso machines and barista training.

The basement will be used for business training and meetings.

[mylesmalley]

I completely agree with you with regards to how consolidating by language was a bad decision, logistically and health-wise. However i'm not convinced it wasn't the worst decision politically. Sure, there's the Charter challenge, but I'm sure there would have been lawsuits under the Canada Health Act had it been consolidated into purely geographic divisions (North, South, East and West for example). Granted, I am by no means a healthcare insider, but my understanding is that most of the more technical medical services, oncology, cardiology etc are only offered in the big southern hospitals. Creating a region that contains all of these services, while the rest have none of them might be seen as giving the south preferential treatment. I fully realize these health regions are just lines on a map and all co-operate, but that's seldom how the public sees it.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

There is more intrigue in the health care system than you can possibly imagine........

The two health care region model will do very little to improve services in the northern hospitals.

You see, there is very little love lost between the GDH and the other francophone hospitals in the province. I know this from experience.

The GDH is by far the most dominant hospital on the French side. The GDH already views itself as the academic tertiary care referral centre for francophone NB and would also like to be considered the francophone referral centre for all of Atlantic Canada (including St. Pierre & Miquelon)!

This is why the French medical school is based solely at the GDH. This is why the Atlantic Cancer Research Centre is based solely at the GDH. This is why the GDH is making a grab for all the tertiary services they can possibly get. It's all empire building in the extreme. The sabre-rattlers behind the charter challenge are all GDH operatives. It suits them well to keep the northern hospitals in their place. The north will get nothing out of the charter challenge....

[mylesmalley]

Yikes.


But they're still getting that sweet new 4-storey building added on, right?

[MonctonRad]

Yikes.


But they're still getting that sweet new 4-storey building added on, right?

But of course! :D

[MonctonRad]

The Dr. McManaman Complex on Mapleton Rd. continues to fill up..........

In addition to the good doctor's orthodontic practice, tenants include:
- Cora's Breakfast & Lunch
- Guardian Rexall Pharmacy
- Canadian Blood Services

and most recently:
- Canadian Automobile Association.

[riverviewer]

The Dr. McManaman Complex on Mapleton Rd. continues to fill up..........
....
- Canadian Automobile Association.

So this means that CAA is recognizing Mapleton Road as the new "primary" road into Moncton for auto-tourism?

Is Main Street dead?

[MonctonRad]

So this means that CAA is recognizing Mapleton Road as the new "primary" road into Moncton for auto-tourism?

Is Main Street dead?

Main Street is not quite dead......yet, but there is a need to give it a defining purpose beyond the handfull of head offices, bank branches and government agencies that already call it home. Sure, there are also several good quality hotels and some good pubs and restaurants downtown too but more is needed.

A downtown arena/entertainment complex certainly would be a huge first step, especially if there was integrated retail and restaurant space as well as an integrated downtown bus terminal.

Some sort of signature downtown retail attraction would also be desireable............Halifax has Mountain Equipment Co-op. I think that MEC could work really well here too, and certainly could be a downtown draw.

Re: CAA in particular, their previous location on King St. was plagued by poor parking and had floor to ceiling windows that made the space very hot in the summer and cold in the winter. I'm sure they were happy to move.

Mapleton Rd. is poised to become the new main entry portal into Moncton from the TCH. It is a more direct route that Mountain Rd., leads directly to the Wheeler Park power centre and is a shortcut to Wheeler Blvd. itself.

This move just makes sense. CAA doesn't need to be downtown.

[MonctonRad]

City takes steps toward events centre
Published Friday January 1st, 2010

Metro Moncton wants to hold title as entertainment centre of the Maritimes
By Brent Mazerolle
Times & Transcript Staff
Editor's note: The following story is one in a series highlighting The Times & Transcript's Top News Stories of 2009.

The City of Moncton is still moving forward with the search for a way to make a downtown entertainment centre revitalize Moncton’s core. Picture a Zamboni. It gathers steam. It gains momentum. It goes back and forth. It goes in circles. It sometimes goes so slowly it seems like it will never finish the task at hand. But ultimately, maybe even when you're not looking, its mission gets accomplished.

The work toward building a downtown events centre was a lot like that in 2009.

The City of Moncton started up the Zamboni last January, awarding a contract for a feasibility study to the IBI Group of consultants.

Even before their final report was in, the consultants made a key finding, that the Moncton Coliseum is the ninth busiest entertainment and sports venue in Canada.

That's even though Metro Moncton is only the nation's 29th largest urban area. Downtown Moncton Centre-Ville Incorporated's Daniel Allain said that sort of finding just reinforces that, "Moncton is the entertainment capital of Atlantic Canada.

He also emphasized what the consultants said would have to be the approach to funding and building a facility. "The metro centre is not a local project. It's a regional project."

That's a view shared by Premier Shawn Graham, who repeatedly made public statements this year promising to work with stakeholders on what's anticipated to be a $75-million project.

At that cost and with 9,000 seats, the IBI Group, recognized leaders in the business of helping communities build multi-purpose facilities, declared a downtown events centre would actually turn a profit rather than being the typical loss leader such buildings often are

IBI Group's Jonathan Hack said his firm's estimates -- his report included 88 pages of detailed financial data -- "are reasoned. They're not conservative. They're not aggressive."

He also emphasized the firm's research did not take a cookie cutter approach from similar studies it has done across North America and elsewhere, but rather focused on a Moncton-centric picture, using Moncton data and conditions.

He said there was no reason the operation of a new facility should incur a deficit. In fact, IBI Group numbers estimate an operating revenue that could be as high as $650,000 per year. Deliberately pursuing a less rosy scenario, Hack's team imagined a scenario in which there would be a 20 per cent drop in attendance across the board at all events that might be held in such a facility. With that cut, the complex would still be looking at $378,000 in operating revenues each year.

"These things make money. If you don't make money, you're doing something wrong," said Hack, who led a similar study that laid the groundwork for the John Labatt Centre in London, Ont., which Billboard magazine has declared the most successful facility of its size in the world.

In July, Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc unveiled a task force of councillors and citizens chaired by Ward 3 Councillor Brian Hicks to examine the IBI Group report and the prospect of building a new sports and entertainment complex in downtown Moncton.

"It's a very interesting opportunity here," Hicks told the Times & Transcript in July. "I'm going into this with an open mind to try and make this work."

At year's end the committee was still finishing up its work, and Moncton city council had set aside about $2.5 million worth of borrowing authority to put toward a downtown events centre, should the project get off the ground this year.

Personal note: I'm glad to see that this project has not been forgotten but I remain distressed that they are taking so long to begin approaching the federal and provincial governments for help with funding this project. I fear that it is probably already too late to secure federal stimulus money......

[MonctonRad]

from "the Sleuth"

WAL-MART NEWS -- Could it be that 2010 in Metro will become known as 'the year of Wal-Mart?' Your gumshoe's crystal ball says it just might happen. First it cited all those rumours about Wal-Mart being on the verge of announcing a third Metro outlet, this one in Riverview (where the town councillors can't conceal their excitement despite their best efforts and insistence it is "only a rumour"). Second, though, the all-knowing crystal says that now the Scoudouc Industrial Park is getting new access to Highway 15, there has been a still-secret deal struck to build a Wal-Mart Distribution Centre to supply its growing Atlantic Canadian string of stores. The crystal ball says to watch for construction to start as soon as the access ramps and new overpass are completed in 2010.

The Wal-Mart rumours won't go away. I wonder how big this distribution centre will really be......

[MonctonRad]

Interesting aerial photo of downtown Moncton taken from the T&T today.

http://harvest.canadaeast.com/image.php?id=425915&size=800x0

[bam63]

from "the Sleuth"

WAL-MART NEWS -- Could it be that 2010 in Metro will become known as 'the year of Wal-Mart?' Your gumshoe's crystal ball says it just might happen. First it cited all those rumours about Wal-Mart being on the verge of announcing a third Metro outlet, this one in Riverview (where the town councillors can't conceal their excitement despite their best efforts and insistence it is "only a rumour"). Second, though, the all-knowing crystal says that now the Scoudouc Industrial Park is getting new access to Highway 15, there has been a still-secret deal struck to build a Wal-Mart Distribution Centre to supply its growing Atlantic Canadian string of stores. The crystal ball says to watch for construction to start as soon as the access ramps and new overpass are completed in 2010.

The Wal-Mart rumours won't go away. I wonder how big this distribution centre will really be......

Imagine 200 overhead doors...............thats what i'm hearing.:cool: :cool: :cool:

[P Unit]

I can't think of one even moderately passable reason why an urban area of about a hundred thousand would need 3 Wal-marts. (Toronto, with a population approaching 3 million, has 10, and there's an explosion of controversy whenever they try to open a new one). I also can't think of a reason why any town councillor in his or her right mind would be excited about one. Any tax base increases by this or by the suburban neighborhood that will inevitably sprout next door will be more than offset by the town having to provide sewage, garbage and recycling, snow clearance, future road maintenance, etc in the new sprawlville they're going to create. I really can't see how people view a new Wal-Mart as a positive thing... I'm sure it will benefit Irving in some way though, so there's no way the local fishwrap will ever have anything in any way critical to say about it. It's too bad, too, because someone's pockets must be being greased so that all this happens without much debate.

[michael_d40]

I really can't see how people view a new Wal-Mart as a positive thing...

Welcome to Moncton lol
They are like hyenas to anything they can get their hands on.

[bam63]

Welcome to Moncton lol
They are like hyenas to anything they can get their hands on.

All the power to walmart for considering riverview for a store.Don't forget that near 100 jobs will be created,no they are not the highest paid positions but it's food on the table for some.

I remember when the first real atlantic superstore opened on main street.It was "soooo big" that half the staff wore roller skates!!At the time the nay sayers claimed moncton couldn't sustain even one store that size. look at what has happened with sobeys and superstores in the greater moncton area since.

Welcome new Walmart to riverview(soon),welcome new walmart superstore to dieppe(soon) and welcome new 500,000+ sf. walmart distribution center to scoudouc(soon).Its a shame some of us forget about the people who work in these markets.

[MonctonRad]

Welcome to Moncton lol
They are like hyenas to anything they can get their hands on.

Hyenas?!??!

Seems to me that when I've browsed the SJ thread, I've noticed that you've seemed excited about new store openings in the McAllister Place/East Point region or on the west side too............:haha:

I am no great fan of Wal-Mart and I hardly ever shop there but I don't think that a new store in Riverview will do any harm............There is not much other retail in the town as it is and I imagine that the new store will likely parasitize business from the existing Wal-Mart's in Moncton and Dieppe more than anything else.

The new Wal-Mart distribution centre is a very positive development as far as I'm concerned. Other people may decry the old "catchment area" arguement that Moncton always trots out but the only thing I have to say on the matter is "location, location, location". :tup:

[kirjtc2]

I think the problem is that there really isn't another region in the country where Wal-Mart is this gung-ho about building new stores. The smallest town in Canada with a Wal-Mart (Digby), smallest cities with 2 (Fredericton and Sydney), and smallest city with 3 (St. John's) are all in Atlantic Canada.

Do we really need another one, especially when, like you said, it's just going to cannibalize the business of their other stores?

[Sony500]

I remember when the first real atlantic superstore opened on main street.It was "soooo big" that half the staff wore roller skates!!

Not that its that important, but Sobeys was the first one to have price checkers on roller skates.

[mylesmalley]

I'm no fan of WalMart, but I don't think that a new one will have any more effect on local businesses that the other two haven't already taken care of. From a business point of view, I think it's silly to build a third one. The river doesn't stop anyone from Riverview from visiting the other two stores.

Then again, it's Wal Mart's money. If they feel they can make three stores viable, then so be it. It'll probably mean a couple hundred new jobs.

As for the rumoured distribution centre. I'm curious why Scoudouc is so attractive to them. I don't know what land costs out there, but it couldn't be that much more expensive to get a lot closer to Rt 2.

[MonctonRad]

As for the rumoured distribution centre. I'm curious why Scoudouc is so attractive to them. I don't know what land costs out there, but it couldn't be that much more expensive to get a lot closer to Rt 2.

Scoudouc is the only one of the four regional industrial parks not in either Moncton's or Dieppe's municipal boundaries. I imagine the tax burden out there would be considerably less.

The Scoudouc Industrial Park is only about 8 minutes from the Rt. 2/15 cloverleaf, so it's not that far out of the way.

[P Unit]

Then again, it's Wal Mart's money.

That's just the thing, though. If you look at Wal Mart as a stand-alone entity, then i guess it's their money and they can do what they want. The problem is that this development will undoubtedly be the catalyst for a large autocentric neighbourhood (I believe Clayton Developments owns a huge tract of land nearby, expect a subdivision full of cul-de-sacs soon). The infrastructure to allow thousands of cars to access the area is not free. The residential developments that will follow will require all sorts of services, and if history is any indication, they will not be sustainable neighbourhoods with ready access to efficient transit, which will only further solidify the Moncton area's dependence on the car. This has financial implications for the entire region as people with poor transit access at their homes are much less likely to take advantage of efficient transit elsewhere. The end result is that areas even not directly adjacent to the development need to be built or maintained in such a manner that promotes car use almost exclusively. One can argue that there will be property tax benefits to having another large chain store in the region, but when the associated costs are added up, I don't believe the net financial benefit will outweigh the problems that these sorts of developments create.

[mylesmalley]

You're preaching to the choir, P Unit :p . I've made my positions on big box developments pretty clear over the past 6500 posts. My comments relating to WalMart were just that. Unfortunately, we don't have local governments or a community movement that knows or cares about the downsides to this type of development.

Private sector investment of this size is a pretty strong indicator of the strength of the local economy. I'd sooner see suburban development than none at all.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Maybe if there is a Walmart built in Riverview, that will attract new businesses to the area. There is already the new Sobeys being built. Maybe an Empire Theatres, Canadian Tire, Marks Workwear House, Shoppers Drug Mart, Bluenotes, Dollaramma...ok now I am just naming stores haha...but anyway what I am trying to say is that if Walmart builds in Finlay, it will bring people there, then maybe other stores, like the ones I just named, will build in Finlay too.

[MonctonRad]

Maybe if there is a Walmart built in Riverview, that will attract new businesses to the area. There is already the new Sobeys being built. Maybe an Empire Theatres, Canadian Tire, Marks Workwear House, Shoppers Drug Mart, Bluenotes, Dollaramma...ok now I am just naming stores haha...but anyway what I am trying to say is that if Walmart builds in Finlay, it will bring people there, then maybe other stores, like the ones I just named, will build in Finlay too.

There are already strong rumours about Canadian Tire and Marks building in Findlay Park.

You're right.........with Sobey's and WalMart building out there, Riverview will finally have a retail cluster of their very own.

@P-Unit, I understand your arguements but you have to remember that we are dealing with Moncton here, not Toronto. The smaller population of Moncton (as well as the surrounding wide open spaces) will likely mean lower density construction for some time. If Moncton exceeds 200-250,000 people, economics will reverse the trend and greater downtown density will develop. It's only a matter of time. There already are a couple of large downtown condo developments in the planning stages.

[P Unit]

I actually think that a region of Greater Moncton's size is better equipped to deal with this sort of thing than somewhere like the GTA. It's much easier to manage growth in a cohesive manner in a smaller region, and it shouldn't be thought that simply because an urban area doesn't have a huge population that it should just accept any development that the free market decides will be profitable, regardless of social, environmental or financial implications.

The issue at hand isn't necessarily just urban density, although that certainly plays a part. It's a fundamental question of how the people of Greater Moncton want to shape the future of the region. Far from being a natural step in the evolution of a growing metropolis, I'd argue that the sort of developments we're likely going to see at Findlay Park represent a future obstacle to the economic and social well-being of the area. While there may be short term development and tax benefits for Riverview, the long-term consequences of this sort of development may actually become a hinderance to the town's ability to balance its budget in the future. Ever since the collapse of the region's economy in the 1980's there seems to be this air of desperation concerning development, a sense that "hey, we had better just accept this because at least it's something." The region has advanced beyond needing to think like this, and it will be a lot easier to change the development culture now than in 20 years, when city residents are stuck with huge tax increases to pay for the shortsightedness that currently drives a lot of this sort of planning.

I don't want to give the impression that I think that this problem is particular to Moncton in any way (the guy on the previous page who referred to the city as "hyenas" could just as easily say the same thing about almost any small or medium sized city in the country). I think that Moncton is in a good enough spot right now though with a relatively healthy economy that residents should be able to dictate with a little more discretion what kind of future they want for the region. And I know, despite the lineups that you see at Trinity Park and Champlain Place, that a lot of Monctonians feel the same way.

Sorry for rambling on, by the way.

[MonctonRad]

I actually think that a region of Greater Moncton's size is better equipped to deal with this sort of thing than somewhere like the GTA. It's much easier to manage growth in a cohesive manner in a smaller region, and it shouldn't be thought that simply because an urban area doesn't have a huge population that it should just accept any development that the free market decides will be profitable, regardless of social, environmental or financial implications.

Good points P-Unit.

The main confounding variable in the Moncton equation is that you have three principal municipalities in the CMA, all fighting for their share of the development and tax assessment pie. This unfortunate situation is not going to change for obvious ethnolinguistic and cultural reasons. This situation prevents the formation of a cohesive development strategy for the metropolitan region.

Riverview wants it's own retailing district in order to boost it's tax assessments and thus help fund programs in it's own municipal boundaries. Unless tax revenues are shared between the three municipalities, this desire on the part of Riverview is understandable.

The only solution is forced municipal amalgamation............I don't think even Shawn Graham would go there!

[benvui]

From an economic stand-point, Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe should have amalgamated long ago. The duplication and triplication of services would end and the region would be even stronger.

This argument could also be made for the Maritime provinces. Imagine how much more money we would have if NB, NS and PEI made one province and only had 1 government, how much further ahead everyone would be.

I know that peoples pride will never allow this to happen. If we could only find a way to better share services and spread the expense around.

[David_99]

I know that peoples pride will never allow this to happen. If we could only find a way to better share services and spread the expense around.

How long before Riverview builds an Aquacentre? :sly:

[mylesmalley]

Glad to see you joining the ranks, David_99. We'll bring back the seventies yet!


Only question is, how long can MonctonRad, Benvui and P_unit hold out?

[Dmajackson]

Good points P-Unit.

The main confounding variable in the Moncton equation is that you have three principal municipalities in the CMA, all fighting for their share of the development and tax assessment pie. This unfortunate situation is not going to change for obvious ethnolinguistic and cultural reasons. This situation prevents the formation of a cohesive development strategy for the metropolitan region.

Riverview wants it's own retailing district in order to boost it's tax assessments and thus help fund programs in it's own municipal boundaries. Unless tax revenues are shared between the three municipalities, this desire on the part of Riverview is understandable.

The only solution is forced municipal amalgamation............I don't think even Shawn Graham would go there!

Happened in Nova Scotia so it can happen in Moncton. :)

You mentioned linguistical problems with a municipal government but I think that since New Brunswick itself is bilingual it would be obvious that Moncton RM (or Petitcodiac RM) would be forced to be bilingual as well.

And just to make sure I have the facts right Moncton and Riverview are mainly English while Dieppe is mainly French correct?

[MonctonRad]

Happened in Nova Scotia so it can happen in Moncton. :)

You mentioned linguistical problems with a municipal government but I think that since New Brunswick itself is bilingual it would be obvious that Moncton RM (or Petitcodiac RM) would be forced to be bilingual as well.

And just to make sure I have the facts right Moncton and Riverview are mainly English while Dieppe is mainly French correct?

Not ever going to happen..............EVER

Moncton is 65% anglophone and 35% francophone and is officially bilingual

Riverview is 95% anglophone and feels so strongly about it's linguistic character that it has declined to be elevated to "city" status, even though it is large enough to become a city (in NB, if you are a city you have to provide bilingual service).

Dieppe is 80-85% francophone and is so proud of it's linguistic character that it is in the process of passing a Quebec style sign law banning English-only signs in the municipality.........The mayor in fact recently stated that Dieppe is a French city and that the anglophones should just get over it.

Nope, not ever going to happen...........ever. No provincial Premier would even think about touching this hot potato!!

[Jerry556]

Am a francophone, i live in Moncton, and hate how Dieppe has there heads so high up the clouds, its embarrassing. There really starting to be annoying with there french only crap. Again am a francophone!!!!

[JasonL-Moncton]

Am a francophone, i live in Moncton, and hate how Dieppe has there heads so high up the clouds, its embarrassing. There really starting to be annoying with there french only crap. Again am a francophone!!!!

We knew there were a few smart ones out there! :tup:

JL

PS> I am kidding...everyone calm down...:notacrook:

PPS> I've been for ammalgmation of the three municipalities for years...if the people could be shown how 'costly' it is to have them separately they would be all for it...three city councils in the area is ridiculous, three 'everything' is ridiculous.
It's already called the 'Greater Moncton Area' and no one has a problem with that...just call the whole damn thing Moncton and be done with it. (But like someone said, never gonna happen, once Dieppe gained city status any talk was taken away.

It's like we have our own version of Canada here...Moncton is Atlantic Canada, Dieppe is the separatist Quebec (the politicians anyway) and Riverview is Ontario & the West (don't really have a BC)...weird.

The only solution is forced municipal amalgamation............I don't think even Shawn Graham would go there!

Why not...have you seen his track record lately...that sounds like it's right up his alley! LOL...that might actually have the ability to make me like him a little bit again.



JL

[MonctonRad]

Why not...have you seen his (Shawn Graham's) track record lately...that sounds like it's right up his alley! LOL...that might actually have the ability to make me like him a little bit again.

Jason, I agree with you absolutely, Shawn Graham is stupid, reckless and a fool.....

He has botched:
- early French immersion
- higher education reform
- health care reorganization
- fee negotiations with the MD's
- NB Power

It is in fact difficult to think of one thing he has done right.

Despite this, even he must realize that forced municipal amalgamation in Moncton would be a no win situation!! :yes: :haha: :yes:

[gehrhardt]

There won't be amalgamation until Dieppe pays off the fool, sorry pool, with the tiles falling off of it. No one else wants to have to pay for it. :haha:

I suppose if was all one big city, non-Dieppe residents wouldn't be charged extra to use it, so there's one benefit.

[benvui]

The whole sign thing in Dieppe is ridiculous. If someone owns a company in a mainly french community and they CHOOSE to have their signs only in english then it would stand to reason that they would suffer monetarily. The main thing here is its their choice, just like it is the choice of every resident to boycott said stores because they can't read the signs. This law affects every store in the mall, and is going to cost a lot of money to a lot of businesses. As I look out my office window on Paul st. the only store that I can see that has bilingual signs is Canadian Tire, and only some of their signs are bilingual. The business community in Dieppe should have banded together and fought this by-law.

[benvui]

There won't be amalgamation until Dieppe pays off the fool, sorry pool, with the tiles falling off of it. No one else wants to have to pay for it. :haha:

I suppose if was all one big city, non-Dieppe residents wouldn't be charged extra to use it, so there's one benefit.

If it was all one city the pool never would have been built in the first place. BTW I hear that tiles are already falling off the sides of some of the pools, sounds like they really got their monies worth.

[JasonL-Moncton]

Jason, I agree with you absolutely, Shawn Graham is stupid, reckless and a fool.....

He has botched:
- early French immersion
- higher education reform
- health care reorganization
- fee negotiations with the MD's
- NB Power

It is in fact difficult to think of one thing he has done right.

Despite this, even he must realize that forced municipal amalgamation in Moncton would be a no win situation!! :yes: :haha: :yes:

Ha Ha...my thoughts on your points:

He has botched:
- early French immersion > Yep, completely, yes it wasn't working the way they wanted it too but their changes were way, way to 'knee jerk' and ill thought out.

- higher education reform > they reformed higher education? Seems even less accessible now that it did before.

- health care reorganization > I wouldn't say they 'botched' it, they were on the right track, there were too many health authorities. They needed to trim the fat in that area a LOT, but the current layout is probably not the best, on the right track but not the best.

- fee negotiations with the MD's >Doctor's really have us over a barrel in this province as they would in any situtation where there is a shortage of something. What they should do is offer a number of forgivable loans, for the next ten years to new Doctors to go to school, if they stay in the province a minimum of ten years, they don't have to pay the loan back. As far as fees, once we start having an influx of new doctors this will give the current old fogies that charge the province (us) for dispensing aspirin and band-aids less of a bargaining chip, but they also won't desire to bargain as much because they won't be so overworked.

- NB Power > Don't even get me started...I've already suggested on here a couple of times that instead of selling to Quebec, the 'Atlantic' power companies should have banded together to create an Atlantic solution/company. More clout on the energy stage, and taking the best of four companies...selling to QP is not the answer.

JL

[benvui]

How long before Riverview builds an Aquacentre? :sly:

Riverview has a pool already in the high school, its serves the purpose for the community and they won't build another. I get your point though. Right now their main need is a new school which they are getting and a new arena, right now there are some teams in Riverview that practice in Hillsborough because there isn't enough ice time in Riverview.

[benvui]

- NB Power > Don't even get me started...I've already suggested on here a couple of times that instead of selling to Quebec, the 'Atlantic' power companies should have banded together to create an Atlantic solution/company. More clout on the energy stage, and taking the best of four companies...selling to QP is not the answer.

JL

Sounds like our amalgamation talk.

[mylesmalley]

Riverview has a pool already in the high school, its serves the purpose for the community and they won't build another. I get your point though. Right now their main need is a new school which they are getting and a new arena, right now there are some teams in Riverview that practice in Hillsborough because there isn't enough ice time in Riverview.

There are at least 8 ice surfaces in greater moncton, but they have to go to Hillsoborough for ice time?

[MonctonRad]

There are at least 8 ice surfaces in greater moncton, but they have to go to Hillsoborough for ice time?

12 actually, but who's counting. :D
- Dieppe has three ice surfaces
- Riverview has two surfaces at the Byron Dobson Arena
- Moncton has seven ice surfaces
.....four at the Red Ball Internet Centre
.....one at the Coliseum
.....one at the J. Louis Levesque (U de M)
.....one at the Kay/Crossman Community Centre

What can I say, Moncton is hockey crazy!

The current plan is to perhaps construct a new arena/community centre next to the new Gunningsville School in east Riverview that is going to be built next year.

It will be interesting to see if the proposed East Riverview Community Centre will have one or two ice surfaces. It should also be noted that Crandall University plans to build an arena in the next couple of years. We also can't forget the possibility of the new downtown events centre/arena.

Within 2-3 years, there could be 16 ice surfaces in metro!

[mylesmalley]

One rink for every 11,000 people? How do the other cities in the region stack up?

[benvui]

What can I say, Moncton is hockey crazy!

Not just hockey, but Ringette, Speed Skating, Figure Skating. Extremely busy.

But Riverview minor hockey won't rent the ice from Moncton for some reason, either that or Moncton won't rent to them..I don't know the situation there, but I do know that my cousin has to drive to Hillsborough for ice time, and I don't know if you have played there recently but they are due for a new rink as well.

[cl812]

The Fredericton Area has 8 (soon to be 9 if they ever get the Grant*Harvey Centre built - 2 surfaces but the York Arena will be decommissioned)

Fredericton (5)
York Arena
Willie O'Ree Place (2)
Beaverbrook
Aitken Centre

Oromocto (2)
Kings Arrow Arena
Soldiers Arena

Keswick Valley Areana

There is also the new one they built in Fredericton Junction, but that may be a bit too far to count, because then you could count Stanley and Nackawic as well.

[gehrhardt]

Salisbury is apparently going to flood the basketball courts by JMA to make it an outdoor rink. Of course, it's January already and so far they have only done something to the lock on the gate... :shrug:

[benvui]

Salisbury is apparently going to flood the basketball courts by JMA to make it an outdoor rink. Of course, it's January already and so far they have only done something to the lock on the gate... :shrug:

Do they still do the rink at the lions club in Salisbury?

[JasonL-Moncton]

I've always said the city should have a city center skating rink, flood somewhere downtown and turn it into a skating rink, it would bring people downtown in the winter and create business for the shops downtown. People could go skating on their lunch breaks for exercise, grab a coffee/hot choclate at a downtown shop, etc...I think that would be awesome.

JL

Possible locations:

Across from the old Suburu dealership, access to paths, Main St., etc.

Between the Moncton Press Club and the Rogers Cable Building, access to paths, riverfront, etc.

Parking lot of Farmer's Market, close to downtown, close to food/coffee.

[mylesmalley]

Unfortunately, with the exception of Assumption, Moncton doesn't really have any decent urban squares. Something I think the city should seriously consider remedying.

[gehrhardt]

Do they still do the rink at the lions club in Salisbury?

Nope. The closest ice surface is the arena in Petitcodiac.

[Dmajackson]

One rink for every 11,000 people? How do the other cities in the region stack up?

Not even close to that here in the 'Fax.

I think we might have a dozen surfaces for 3X the population of Moncton. :rolleyes:

[mylesmalley]

I have to wonder if that's a result of a stronger demand for rinks in Moncton (or inversely a lack of demand in Halifax), or if it's a case of the community being inflexible with when they want ice time, meaning more rinks used less often.

[mylesmalley]

Come to think of it, we'll soon have a thirteenth, when Crandall University builds their new athletic building in the next couple of years.

And potentially a fourteenth if we all get our wish for a downtown arena!

[Dmajackson]

I just took a count and there appears to be 16 surfaces in Urban Halifax right now with two under construction.

So leaving room for error that's around 1 rink per 25'000 citizens

[MonctonRad]

Unfortunately, with the exception of Assumption, Moncton doesn't really have any decent urban squares. Something I think the city should seriously consider remedying.

Well, for the downtown core, you would have to include the plaza in front of City Hall/Moncton Place too..........it's pretty nice.

I agree though, downtown public spaces in Moncton are rather lacking.

If the new downtown arena /events centre were to be built behind Assumption Place, it would be nice to include a nice public plaza in the design, this could enhance any plans for integrated restaurants, pubs and retail in the project and could interface nicely with a downtown transit terminal as well. If all this came together, this project could really define the downtown core! :tup:

[MonctonRad]

Come to think of it, we'll soon have a thirteenth, when Crandall University builds their new athletic building in the next couple of years.

And potentially a fourteenth if we all get our wish for a downtown arena!

Or 15-16 surfaces if you include the proposed community centre/arena(s) for east Riverview adjacent to the new Gunningsville School. :tup:

[mylesmalley]

Madness!

[benvui]

I think they are trying to make an outdoor rink in front of city hall, around a big tree, but the weather hasn't been co-operating so its still just hard packed snow for now until the weather gets colder.

[JHikka]

Saint John has 6 arenas within city-limits, there is also another arena in Grand Bay and another three in KV (Rothesay/Quispamsis), although one of them is rather private at Rothesay Netherwood. Saint John has been planning on adding a 4-plex for forever but you know how people in Saint John are when it comes to planning. Generally poor, and when we do develop something it's the worst idea possible. Like adding another three ice surfaces to the Lord Beaverbrook, for example. We are very short on arenas and need more.

I remember having to play a game against a Riverview team on a Wednesday night in Hillsborough. It was a rather long drive down there and wasn't the least bit exciting. In all fairness I had no idea they actually used that rink until I had to go down there. I assumed they just used the Byron Dobson.

I can get a map made up for hockey arenas in the region if need be.

For those wondering Halifax takes the cake with the number of arenas. Although if you want to start splitting hairs between Bedford/Dartmouth and Cole Harbour we can start doing that ;)

[MonctonRad]

I think the issue between Moncton and Riverview re: access to arenas is that the 5 public arenas in Moncton are all fully engaged with the MMHA, Mariposa figure skating and ringuette. There just isn't any time to share with Riverview.

Byron Dobson in Riverview is also fully booked............a new rink on the other side of the river is needed.

[JHikka]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Goalieboy/NBArenasJan2010.jpg?t=1262880862

This is a map of all hockey arenas in NB. One dot just represents one facility and not number of pads per arena (IE Red Ball in Moncton is only one dot, not four. Willie O'Ree is only one dot and not 2, etc.)

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Great map Greg, did you do this yourself?

:tup:

[mylesmalley]

Great map, Greg!

Interesting how they're so evenly spaced north of Bathurst.

[JHikka]

Yeah I just did that myself real quickly this morning. :}

Bathurst was interesting. There's the KC Irving in Bathurst, and then smaller arenas in Nigadoo, Belledune, Beresford and the other which is escaping my memory.

The map isn't exact and I know I got some locations slightly wrong (It's hard guessing in-land areas like Sussex and Doaktown).

[mylesmalley]

close enough, i'd say

[gehrhardt]

Published Friday January 8th, 2010
A3
TIMES & TRANSCRIPT STAFF

The new $58-million justice centre and courthouse is rapidly taking shape in downtown Moncton and on track to be completed this fall.

"The courthouse is coming along nicely and construction is on track. They are now working on the interior and we expect to have it completed by the fall," Supply and Services Minister Ed Doherty said yesterday. The new 11,970-square-metre (133,000-square-foot) justice centre is located along Assomption Boulevard near the RCMP headquarters and the Assumption Building. It will contain 15 courtrooms, court staff, sheriff services, victim services, probation services and Crown prosecutors.

"Moncton is booming," Doherty said. Other projects underway in the Moncton region include a new north end school, renovations to Ecole Ste Therese, the new $40 million jail in Shediac, expansion to the New Brunswick Community College on Mountain Road, expansions at the Dr. Georges-L. Dumont Hospital for the cancer treatment centre, and the final phases of construction at the new Ambulatory Care wing of The Moncton Hospital, and continued work on restoration of the Petitcodiac River. He said all these projects represent provincial investment of over $1.6 billion.

Other projects promised in the recent budget include a new French school for Moncton and a new school for east Riverview. Doherty said more news on these projects will come as individual departments finalize their capital works budgets in the coming weeks.

Several other projects continue, including the new Moncton Casino which is being built with private money.

[SC1986]

it would probably be almost like that up in bathurst because of the one main road goin through those communities..i didnt think they all had an arena before though when i lived there

[josh_cat_eyes]

Just out of curiosity, does that rink count the one that burnt down in Richiboucto?

Also, I have a question regarding a 3rd river crossing?
What is the story behind the proposed 3rd river crossing from riverview to dieppe (traffic circle)? I have seen the land use maps and i see that there was supposed to be a crossing there at some point. Also, what is the likely hood of there ever being one at that location? I think it would do wonders for both riverview and dieppe.

[MonctonRad]

What is the story behind the proposed 3rd river crossing from riverview to dieppe (traffic circle)? I have seen the land use maps and i see that there was supposed to be a crossing there at some point. Also, what is the likely hood of there ever being one at that location? I think it would do wonders for both riverview and dieppe.

There are no immediate plans to build a third crossing to Riverview from the Dieppe traffic circle area.

There has been some talk in the past about this, and I believe that as part of the discussion over the future of the old Gunningsville Bridge, that the possibility of building the (replacement) second Petitcodiac River crossing at the Dieppe traffic circle was considered. This was abandoned partly (a) because of stiff opposition from Moncton and partly (b) because it was the more expensive option.

A third crossing may be necessary in the future, but not for 15-20 years at best. You have to remember that there are now 7 lanes of traffic between Moncton and Riverview, which is the same as between Dartmouth and Halifax. The traffic volume probably does not justify the expense at present.

When a third crossing becomes necessary, there is no guarantee that it would be built between the Dieppe traffic circle and (the appropriately named) Outhouse Point. There is a school of thought that it should be built further downstream, between the Bridgedale section of Riverview and the St. Anselme neighbourhood of Dieppe. If built in this location, it would provide a direct link to rapidly growing eastern sections of the metropolitan area via Gunningsville Blvd., (the yet to be built) Bridgedale Blvd., Melanson Rd. and Dieppe Blvd.

[mylesmalley]

You're looking at decades away on that one. There are currently 7 lanes crossing the river, soon to be eight with the widening of the causeway. It'll be quite some time before any additional capacity is needed, especially considering Riverview's population isn't increasing quickly, and their growth is concentrated near the existing crossings.

The problem with the halls creek crossing was two-fold. I've been told the span of the bridge there would be double the length of the current one, and thus significantly more expensive. Second, it'd be very difficult to build a proper interchange with Main/Champlain St and the highway which would be needed at that location because of the local geography. That's not to say that it couldn't happen in the future, but I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were you.

I've also been told that Dieppe would like to see a third crossing built someday, however they'd prefer to see it down at St Anselem/Fox Creek, possibly to connect Riverview with Dieppe Blvd and the exploding neighbourhoods in that part of the city.

If I had to guess though, the only way something like that would ever happen is if some kind of south-side bypass were ever needed around Greater Moncton, in which case a highway could spur off from the TCH before Dieppe, cross the river at Lower Coverdale, bypass Riverview to the south, and reconnect with the TCH near Salisbury. However, I have an extremely overactive imagination when it comes to infrastructure projects. That'd be a quarter-billion dollar project, and unless 150,000 people decide to move to Riverview, something that isn't likely to happen in our lifetimes :p.

[mylesmalley]

MonctonRad, I think we need to confer more often before posting.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Hey Myles, that's almost a double post, we said almost the same things!! :haha: :haha: :haha:

BTW, we just passed 500,000 views on the Moncton thread.......that must be worth something!
:banana: :banana: :banana:

[MonctonRad]

Another (almost) double post!!!!!! :notacrook:

[David_99]

I see the Causeway gates will be opened permanently in mid March. Any word on when construction of the new Causeway will start?

[MonctonRad]

I see the Causeway gates will be opened permanently in mid March. Any word on when construction of the new Causeway will start?

It's my understanding that not much will happen for a couple of years after the gates open.

Construction of the new bridge just to the east of the existing causeway will likely begin in 2012. This will in itself take about two years to complete. Only after this will they begin to demolish the old causeway. The project likely won't be complete until 2015-16.

This means that the old headpond will be a barren wasteland for at least 5 years, probably slowly silting in with each high tide. By the time the causeway is removed, there will likely be not much left to be salvaged.

I remain rather jaded about the whole usefullness of this "project". The Petitcodiac River will never be restored to it's former glory. :(

[josh_cat_eyes]

What is the feasibility of a crossing as far south as say, Hillsbourgh? It would certainly make hillsborough and sackville a lot closer!

[mylesmalley]

There was once a cable ferry between Hillborough and Dorcester when they were both county/shire towns, but I think that went away in the 60s. I doubt there'd be much support for a bridge there. The river is quite wide, and the populations on either side haven't grown in a long time. Moreover, Unlike in say Riverview and Dieppe, I can't really see a lot of people working in Dorcester while living in Hillsborough or vice versa.

[BlackYear]

In the photo below, the house with the red X has now been flatten yesterday by heavy equipment.

A couple of years ago, the 3 combines lots within the doted parameter was being offered for sale for about $540,000. Apparently this lot is now sold which is why the house needed to go to make room for an upcoming apartment complex. This information comes from former tenants of this house, which is not confirmed, but reliable.

I have no information on the other 4 houses on the left. Supposedly it may also be sold but not certain.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j303/blacquiere/Moncton/deluxe.jpg