The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[MonctonRad]

Good article about MID (Moncton Industrial Development) in the T&T today.

Highlights:

- They are running out of lots to sell in their four existing parks.
- They will be making a proposal to PAC regarding a new industrial park early in 2022. Presumably this will be for that wedge of property on the SW corner of the TCH/15 interchange, across from the airport, extending to Shediac Road. There has already been surveying and some land clearing within this property.
- Land sales by MID totaled $4.3M (2020), $7.6M (2021), and they already anticipate $5.6M in sales in just the first quarter of 2022, constituting 59 acres under negotiation.
- The decision by Walmart to locate their new distribution centre in the Caledonia Industrial Park made a lot of people sit up and take notice, especially in the United States. This is what is driving a lot of the current land sales.
- One recent land sale (13 acres) is for Ideal Roofing, an Ottawa based firm planning on building a new plant making steel roofing products.

Success breeds success. I am glad to hear that the Walmart distribution centre is acting as an accelerator for even more development in our industrial parks.

[MonctonRad]

The city of Moncton has released their building permit valuation for 2021.

the total is $296.5M (apparently a record). Of this, $163.5M was for residential construction and $102M was for commercial and industrial activity. There was $24M in institutional activity according to the T&T article.

[MonctonRad]

According to the T&T, the average home price in greater Moncton has cracked $300k for the very first time - $306,100, which is 38% higher than last year. :eek:

Average single family home prices in greater Moncton:

- Dieppe - $413,400 (up 94.5% over the last five years)
- Moncton - $311,600 (up 94.0% over the last five years)
- Riverview - $294,500 (up 92% over the last five years)
- Surrounding areas - $274,900 (up 104% over the last five years)

- There were 4,551 housing sales this year (up 18%)
- Inventory is at a 30 year low.
- There were 406 homes for sale at the end of December (down 37.6% from the same time last year)

Speculators are moving into the market as we have been historically undervalued with relation to other larger centres in the country. These people will "fix and flip" properties for a handsome profit. There are many people escaping from Ontario willing to pay a premium for a good quality property down here. There is no end in sight.

[bridgeoftea]

According to the T&T, the average home price in greater Moncton has cracked $300k for the very first time - $306,100, which is 38% higher than last year. :eek:

Average single family home prices in greater Moncton:

- Dieppe - $413,400 (up 94.5% over the last five years)
- Moncton - $311,600 (up 94.0% over the last five years)
- Riverview - $294,500 (up 92% over the last five years)
- Surrounding areas - $274,900 (up 104% over the last five years)

- There were 4,551 housing sales this year (up 18%)
- Inventory is at a 30 year low.
- There were 406 homes for sale at the end of December (down 37.6% from the same time last year)

Speculators are moving into the market as we have been historically undervalued with relation to other larger centres in the country. These people will "fix and flip" properties for a handsome profit. There are many people escaping from Ontario willing to pay a premium for a good quality property down here. There is no end in sight.

Honestly these days you don't really need to do anything to a place to make a profit. Sadly it doesn't look like the price trend is going down anytime soon.

[MonctonRad]

The January PACS agenda is out for Moncton. It is disgustingly sparse; quite literally requests for only a couple of residential garage permits

[MonctonRad]

We now have complete 2021 building permit valuations for the extended Moncton metropolitan area (save for unincorporated areas).

Moncton - $296.5M
Dieppe - $101.9M
Riverview - $55.8M
Shediac - $54.0M

TOTAL - $508.2M

That's right, building permit valuation in the extended Moncton metropolitan area for 2021 exceeded a half billion dollars!!!

[bridgeoftea]

We now have complete 2021 building permit valuations for the extended Moncton metropolitan area (save for unincorporated areas).

Moncton - $296.5M
Dieppe - $101.9M
Riverview - $55.8M
Shediac - $54.0M

TOTAL - $508.2M

That's right, building permit valuation in the extended Moncton metropolitan area for 2021 exceeded a half billion dollars!!!

Great news!

[josh_cat_eyes]

We now have complete 2021 building permit valuations for the extended Moncton metropolitan area (save for unincorporated areas).

Moncton - $296.5M
Dieppe - $101.9M
Riverview - $55.8M
Shediac - $54.0M

TOTAL - $508.2M

That's right, building permit valuation in the extended Moncton metropolitan area for 2021 exceeded a half billion dollars!!!

I’m very surprised how close Shediac’s total is to Riverview’s.

[MonctonRad]

I’m very surprised how close Shediac’s total is to Riverview’s.

Lot's of apartments going up in Shediac right now.

If you ask me, Shediac is just beginning to take off. I predict at least a decade of major growth ahead.

Riverview's numbers aren't shabby either. Their building permit valuation the previous year was only about $32M, so they are up about 2/3rds in valuation too.......

[Taeolas]

It'll be interesting to see how the trends keep going and when they reach the next few milestones. Estimating when they hit 1B might be too far out, but we should be able to make a decent guess for when they hit 750M.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

With other major projects in the offing (especially Ashford and the ASEC), I can foresee over $600M in annual regional building permit valuation in the not too distant future.

[MonctonRad]

I heard an interesting factoid from a reliable source today.

Apparently there is a two year wait for crane rental in the greater Moncton area.

Because of this there is some delay in apartment construction, and, with in-migration into the area of 3,500 per year or so, there will be at least a 10 year backlog in new apartment construction before supply begins to catch up with demand........

[josh_cat_eyes]

I heard an interesting factoid from a reliable source today.

Apparently there is a two year wait for crane rental in the greater Moncton area.

Because of this there is some delay in apartment construction, and, with in-migration into the area of 3,500 per year or so, there will be at least a 10 year backlog in new apartment construction before supply begins to catch up with demand........

That’s crazy! I’d believe it though!

Anybody wanna crowdfund buying a crane? We could make our money back in a couple years.

[Taeolas]

Wow, that is incredible.

Were I in the crane rental business, I'd be trying to get another crane or three into the region to strike while the market is hot.

[jonny golden]

Lets hope that the crane rental companies recognize the opportunity and add to their inventory. There's a lot of those large mobile cranes that I've seen around too. And of course every time a project gets finished, the crane moves on to the next location. Hopefully the crane availability situation wont hinder things too much.

[BaseballFan]

Won't be much need for cranes if the multi-res tax assessments head in this direction. Based on total 2022 levy of $2.7385 per $100 of assessment, that's $469,938 or $7,342 per unit per year. Yikes.

https://i.imgur.com/V92SBjJ.jpg

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Or $611.83/month for each unit, which is probably about half of the rental cost for the tenant.

Add in the cost of amortization for the owner, as well as maintenance and upkeep, and there wouldn't be too much profit left over.

Is it any wonder that monthly rents are mushrooming every year?????

[adamuptownsj]

I don't know how the province can justify these assessments.

[Ammn_guy]

To everyone harping on landloards, Between city Tax,utility fees, insurance, turnover costs, income tax (minimum 15-30% usually), it puts the base breakeven cost of a unit in even he crappiest of triplexs at about 600-1000 a month. And thats before mortgage.

Landlords are giving up waiting for a reduction of taxs and cashing in on the high sale prices. which.. will only drive the rents higher due to the higher morts on the new sales.

Renters, You want some one to complain to start talking about moncton and the provinces ridiculous tax rate.

:previous:

Or $611.83/month for each unit, which is probably about half of the rental cost for the tenant.

Add in the cost of amortization for the owner, as well as maintenance and upkeep, and there wouldn't be too much profit left over.

Is it any wonder that monthly rents are mushrooming every year?????

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

And yet the landlords will still get blamed as being greedy.

The New Brunswick Apartment Owners Association should really consider hiring a PR firm to air their concerns with the public, and to put more pressure on the province and the municipalities to lower the property tax assessment rates.

[Nashe]

I got out of rental business (I only had 4 units @ 2 properties) for that reason.
My options were 1) let my property get slowly destroyed while keeping rents low or 2) price myself nearly out of the market to generate enough cash to properly keep them up. Property taxes, utilities, insurance and maintenance are all much higher than for a building you are living in yourself.

"But you're making $500/month on the building!"

Not really. Not even close. I'm happy to break even, over the year. In 2019, one big repair at one property put the whole building in the red for the year. If you DO turn a profit, you get it clawed back in income taxes. You also get to fight with tenants (via Rentalsman) over damage deposits. One tenant didn't even both asking for theirs when they left... and rightly so. It took 3 days and a 40 cu. yard dumpster to clean out what they left behind ($1,000+ expense to me).

"But you get all your equity back when you sell, and THEN some!"

Heard of capital gains? We liquidated our properties this year and made just enough to pay off all debts associated with the units and put only enough in our pockets to do a modest renovation of our own place. Definitely not worth the hassle of the past 4 years.

[josh_cat_eyes]

The solution: public housing that looks like this
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Panel_Khrushchev_house_in_Tomsk.jpg/800px-Panel_Khrushchev_house_in_Tomsk.jpg

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

I don't think anyone is arguing in favour of the creation of "projects", tenements or slums.

The solution (as usual) is multifactorial.

The "double taxation" assessment rates have to go. With the appreciation in real estate valuation in the last couple of years, the tax burden on landlords is becoming untenable. They have no choice but to pass the cost of property taxes to their residents, significantly increasing rents, and forcing low income residents out onto the streets. Higgs should address this situation immediately.

At the same time, ways should be found to prevent (or reduce) the sale of rental properties to out of province entrepreneurs from Upper Canada who then "renovict" residents so that they can increase rental prices by 70,80 or 100%. This could be managed by putting on "reasonable" rental controls. Of course, one cannot do this without also tackling the "double taxation" problem. The issues go hand in hand.

I am not against the idea of legislating a certain percentage of affordable housing units in new residential buildings above a certain size. Some developers of course might object to this for a variety of generally legitimate reasons, and I would allow them to get out of this requirement by having them instead construct affordable housing elsewhere in the neighbourhood (not on the fringes of town). Affordable housing should be available downtown.

For the truly indigent and the homeless, I like the new tiny home initiative that they have started in Fredericton. This gets people off the street, and gives them some personal dignity and a secure place to stay.

So, in essence, my solution would be:

1) - eliminate the double tax on non owner occupied residential units.
2) - have the province and municipalities tightly control the residential tax rate in order to prevent tax windfalls due to rapidly increasing assessments.

In return for this tax relief:

3) - institute reasonable rent controls on the rental properties (no more than several percentage points above the cost of living, with the right of appeal for extraordinary circumstances, such as unanticipated major property repairs)
4) - mandate the inclusion of a certain percentage of affordable housing units in any new multi residential project above a certain size or
5) - in lieu of this, allow property developers to pay a fee towards the creation of government provided social housing units in the neighbourhood.

[OliverD]

The problem is that inclusionary zoning often doesn't yield the results that are hoped for, and it increases the cost of other housing.

See here what Portland ME did: https://boulos.com/multifamily-the-effects-of-portlands-inclusionary-zoning/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=multifamily-the-effects-of-portlands-inclusionary-zoning

In 2020, prior to the new IZ provision, 756 units were put on the books. Since passing the IZ provision (at the time of writing this article), only 139 units have been put on the books across three projects—a decrease of 81.6%.

Per Christine Grimando, another strategy deployed by developers to skirt the new IZ provision is to reduce the scope of their projects. For example, one multifamily project originally slated for 20+ units is being redesigned as a nine-unit project, just below the threshold that triggers IZ. This trend is resulting in less housing overall and no additional affordable housing being built in Portland.

[Nashe]

I can't see how there'd be any money in it for a developer, unless they were subsidized.

[MonctonRad]

I can't see how there'd be any money in it for a developer, unless they were subsidized.

The units would likely have to be subsidized, yes.

The only other way for the developers to recover their costs would be to increase the rents for their other tenants, which doesn't really seem fair.

[josh_cat_eyes]

I was merely making a joke because 40 years ago that is how they would fix the problem. This is an area where an immediate solution doesn’t come to mind. I have lots of opinions on how to improve different things but this isn’t one of them lol.

[JHikka]

The only other way for the developers to recover their costs would be to increase the rents for their other tenants, which doesn't really seem fair.

I mean, the alternative is people living without housing. Seems more unfair, IMO.

[MonctonRad]

I mean, the alternative is people living without housing. Seems more unfair, IMO.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I am presuming the other tenants of the building would be relatively normal folk, probably young urban professionals, currently childless, or elderly couples downsizing from the suburbs and living on a pension (in other words not the hated and reviled one percenters responsible for all the ills of the world).

Assuming this, the other building residents would be concerned about their rental costs, and probably would be worried about paying a premium of an extra few hundred dollars per month on their rent in order to make up for the cost of the affordable housing units downstairs.

The deal should be for the developer assuming the responsibility of building the affordable housing units, but in return, the government partially subsidizing the costs of these units in order to keep the rents low. This would have no net effect on the rental costs of the other tenants of the building. :yes:

[Feneant]

How about they remove double taxation on non owner occupied units -only- when the owner resides in NB? Keep it for out of province so that it pushes tenants towards NB owned units so we support our own people instead of allowing all these faceless numbered companies to price out the locals.

[Ifyoubuildit]

:previous:

I don't think anyone is arguing in favour of the creation of "projects", tenements or slums.

The solution (as usual) is multifactorial.

The "double taxation" assessment rates have to go. With the appreciation in real estate valuation in the last couple of years, the tax burden on landlords is becoming untenable. They have no choice but to pass the cost of property taxes to their residents, significantly increasing rents, and forcing low income residents out onto the streets. Higgs should address this situation immediately.

At the same time, ways should be found to prevent (or reduce) the sale of rental properties to out of province entrepreneurs from Upper Canada who then "renovict" residents so that they can increase rental prices by 70,80 or 100%. This could be managed by putting on "reasonable" rental controls. Of course, one cannot do this without also tackling the "double taxation" problem. The issues go hand in hand.

I am not against the idea of legislating a certain percentage of affordable housing units in new residential buildings above a certain size. Some developers of course might object to this for a variety of generally legitimate reasons, and I would allow them to get out of this requirement by having them instead construct affordable housing elsewhere in the neighbourhood (not on the fringes of town). Affordable housing should be available downtown.

For the truly indigent and the homeless, I like the new tiny home initiative that they have started in Fredericton. This gets people off the street, and gives them some personal dignity and a secure place to stay.

So, in essence, my solution would be:

1) - eliminate the double tax on non owner occupied residential units.
2) - have the province and municipalities tightly control the residential tax rate in order to prevent tax windfalls due to rapidly increasing assessments.

In return for this tax relief:

3) - institute reasonable rent controls on the rental properties (no more than several percentage points above the cost of living, with the right of appeal for extraordinary circumstances, such as unanticipated major property repairs)
4) - mandate the inclusion of a certain percentage of affordable housing units in any new multi residential project above a certain size or
5) - in lieu of this, allow property developers to pay a fee towards the creation of government provided social housing units in the neighbourhood.

When we talk about “affordable living,” why does society put all the responsibility on landlords? Why don’t we then talk about putting caps on food prices, car sales, OR force employers to pay higher wages. Why does this responsibility all fall on the hands of landlords? This unbelievable tax height can only lead to the following outcomes: 1. Average monthly rents approaching $2000/month, 2. A halt on new construction because development becomes unprofitable (plus think of the jobs loss: construction, engineering, supplies), 3. Slum apartments. All of which will only serve to make the housing crisis worse. If the government wants to make a positive impact, they should reduce tax not increase it, as this will result in more housing stock and competition to keep rents in check. They should also develop programs subsidizing developers to build affordable projects. As it stands now, with the cost of building construction and TAXES, it is simply not possible to build affordable housing. Let’s not forget the cost of construction has risen 30% over the last two years, plus a sudden 30%+ tax increase, this is not a good scenario for more housing. Also, what happens as we come out of the pandemic with much needed immigration and hosing needs to fulfill the worker shortage this province is critically facing?

[Bishop2047]

How about they remove double taxation on non owner occupied units -only- when the owner resides in NB? Keep it for out of province so that it pushes tenants towards NB owned units so we support our own people instead of allowing all these faceless numbered companies to price out the locals.

I could get behind this! I have been both a landlord while live in and out of the province. Anything that would encourage local ownership groups rather than large corps would get a thumbs up in my book.

[adamuptownsj]

Why not instead just put a cap on the number of units you can own, and beyond that a double tax kicks in? If the goal is to prevent rental consolidation and keep ownership local, this is a good fix. No double tax on say 40 units, and use a different formula for large building owners. Somewhat helps with pricing. Big fan of maintaining double tax on properties owned outside NB.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Why not instead just put a cap on the number of units you can own, and beyond that a double tax kicks in? If the goal is to prevent rental consolidation and keep ownership local, this is a good fix. No double tax on say 40 units, and use a different formula for large building owners. Somewhat helps with pricing. Big fan of maintaining double tax on properties owned outside NB.

I like this idea. This would encourage local ownership.

[Ifyoubuildit]

I like this idea. This would encourage local ownership.

Again, why are we suggesting policies for landlords that differ from other businesses? If we are talking about issues of affordability, then why shouldn’t we have limitations on how many grocery stores Loblaws has or double tax them? Or an out of province business of any nature, then shouldn’t we be saying that they should be limited and double taxed? Why do apartment owners have to abide by different rules? I would also bet that most of these reports of tenants rents doubling in a year (and being associated with out of province owners) is sensationalized by media. No one ever reports numbers or statistics from a credible source. What is the true percentage increase in rents this year across all rental units? And yes if someone buys a 1970-80’s apartment building that has had little upgrades, rent has to go up significantly (whether they are an out of province owner or not) to do necessary upgrades (at 2022 repair costs) or else you get apartment slum conditions. The solution is the government has to subsidize housing for those who can’t afford it.

[Taeolas]

I think what it comes down to, is the fact that housing is such an important necessity, and the supply is so constrained, that it may need some special rules in place.

That said, it would be good for the province to do some basic studies on rents and publish them so we do have firmer numbers of the state of housing in the province.

But ultimately, housing is the sort of thing that you have a very limited supply of, that is very difficult to increase the supply of, and in a growing population, is going to be in high demand which will lead to a lot of inflation.

Other markets like grocery stores or car sales, they still have a lot of options available for people and their prices (while inflating) don't seem to be seeing the spikes that rent increases seem to be getting. And food costs are certainly something StatsCan keeps an eye on regardless, and tries to highlight areas of concern with.

Solving the double taxation issue certainly seems to be something we desperately need; our market should be priced and taxed similar to other markets in the country.

Is there a need to solve the Out of Province Ownership "problem"? I don't know; at first glance it does seem concerning. So I would hope that there is legit pressure being put on the governments to watch that and take action on.

[Taeolas]

Hmm, a rather coincidental article posted today (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/property-tax-apartment-new-brunswick-1.6342975?cmp=rss).

Basically, it's calling into question the double taxation claims due to the lower property values that are being taxed and claiming that (even with the value increases this year), that actual paid taxes are similar to other jurisdictions.

The article gives one example from Killiam, comparing a property in SJ to one in Halifax.

I do wonder if a proper study was done, looking at actual paid taxes, how NB actually compares to other cities and regions.

[Nashe]

The gist of the article is that lower assessments in NB offset the higher rates.
The problem with that is that that means that RENTS would also have to be the same, to cover them. Do we want rents to be the same in Moncton as Toronto?

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Exactly the point.

No one is arguing that lower assessments means that tax rates have to be higher in order to allow for a similar level of service provision on the part of the government.

If however assessments rise, then there should be a concomitant decrease in the tax rate to prevent a tax windfall to the government. The overall tax bill should remain stable so that the municipality can continue to fund fire, policing, sewer services, water and street maintenance.

If the tax bill remains stable then there should be no net effect on the rent paid by tenants. If the assessment increases by 25% however and the rate is not adjusted, then don't be surprised if there is also a significant boost in the cost of rent to make up the difference.

The landlords are not running charities. They are businessmen who are incurring significant financial risk by building and maintaining their rental properties. They expect and deserve a reasonable profit margin so that this risk is justifiable.

Otherwise, who would blame them if they took their money and invested in Google or Amazon instead, and watch their portfolio mushroom, rather than making their community a better place to live in...........

[BaseballFan]

The gist of the article is that lower assessments in NB offset the higher rates.
The problem with that is that that means that RENTS would also have to be the same, to cover them. Do we want rents to be the same in Moncton as Toronto?

Exactly. Even the comparison the story makes between Moncton and Dartmouth/Halifax for those two Killam buildings is a bit misleading, because the rental rates are substantially higher in the HRM. You can deal with ANY level of taxation as long as rents are high enough to cover it and the property owner maintains the same return on capital. The problem now is that people/journalists are conflating assessments, tax expenses, mill rates, etc. The bottom line is "tax expense as a % of revenue". Inflationary increases are fine, property owners just need stability and predictability

[OliverD]

How about they remove double taxation on non owner occupied units -only- when the owner resides in NB? Keep it for out of province so that it pushes tenants towards NB owned units so we support our own people instead of allowing all these faceless numbered companies to price out the locals.

Not really a fan of this approach in general and I think there would still be loopholes. Whether or not the owner lives in NB can be obfuscated in numerous ways so it seems like there would be a lot of overhead to administer and enforce these rules. It also wouldn't be fair to tenants to have one determinant of their rental cost be where the owner of their building lives.

If we were coming up with a property tax system from scratch today there's absolutely no way we would tax rental properties more than owner occupied properties. It makes zero sense to subsidize home ownership even further at the expense of people who are renting.

So why are we okay with the status quo? To spite REITs? Let's instead figure out how to level the playing field between rented properties and owner occupied properties so that renters do come out ahead.

If we're going to argue that cutting property tax rates won't reduce rents in the short term (which is debatable), why can't the province make a deal with a handful of the largest landlords in the province to only cut property taxes if they reduce rent by a certain amount? Others would surely follow suit to remain competitive.

Another thing that constantly gets ignored in this debate is that lower property taxes would surely result in more units of housing getting built. There's no way you can convince me that some projects that aren't currently feasible would suddenly make sense. And while we're currently in a hot market and expensive units seem to be rented out as quickly as they're built, that won't last forever, and it's possible that new construction will dry up because most projects suddenly aren't financially feasible.

[OliverD]

I mean, the alternative is people living without housing. Seems more unfair, IMO.

And if IZ substantially cuts the number of new units that are built, even more people are without housing.

[Nashe]

I'm glad I got out of landlording. Lots of grief for very little gain. You really have to have 10+ units to make it worthwhile for many of the reasons above.
The cost of any major repair gets spread out over the pool of units, at least.

[monctonian]

Follow the taxes:

NB provincial tax rates are regulated by the Real Property Tax Act. The 2021 tax rate for residential housing was $1.1233 per $100 of the assessed value. Assume the rate for 2022 is unchanged.

Example: A residential rental property is assessed at $100,000 per unit the Provincial property tax (residential) would be $1,123.30 ($93.61 per month).

In calculating taxable income for an apartment building, the Provincial property tax is an eligible expense.
So using the example above, the Province gets to collect $1,123.30 per unit, any part of which then it does not have to share with with the federal government.

If the provincial property tax was eliminated then the amount would increase the net taxable income where Canada and New Brunswick would collect their respective income taxes.

Would New Brunswick then net less tax revenue?

[MonctonRad]

[B]If the provincial property tax was eliminated then the amount would increase the net taxable income where Canada and New Brunswick would collect their respective income taxes.

Would New Brunswick then net less tax revenue?

Interesting question.

Anytime I am confronted with tax policy and implications thereof in terms of tax benefits and liabilities my head hurts and I get a nosebleed. :rolleyes:

[Taeolas]

It seems like our Rental Property Taxation system is similar to our Public Transit funding system; out of sync with the rest of the country in some ways, and long overdue for a proper study and overhaul to make it equivalent/similar to the rest of the country.

Really these are both symptoms of some overall growing pains, as the province gets bigger and has to deal with more people, bigger cities and the requirements those people bring with them (and the wants those people have). For a long time we were able to coast along as a meddling province, but now we're getting a lot more attention (good and bad), and it's time we stepped up and started modernizing. We'll be looking at a Million Population milestone soon (within a generation), and we need to be ready to support it and beyond.

[Riberview]

Interesting question.

Anytime I am confronted with tax policy and implications thereof in terms of tax benefits and liabilities my head hurts and I get a nosebleed. :rolleyes:

Same.

[habs33]

Not construction related but Brunswick news has been sold to PostMedia
Postmedia to Acquire Brunswick News Inc. (https://www.postmedia.com/2022/02/17/postmedia-to-acquire-brunswick-news-inc-and-extend-maturity-of-its-first-and-second-lien-notes/)

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Indeed a shocker.

Everyone used to complain about the Irving media monopoly, but I'm not sure if this is a positive move or not.

Ownership will now not be local. There may not be the same commitment to local new coverage. Will three dailies for the province continue? Or, will there be a move to create a single "provincial" daily newspaper.

A whole new set of biases will come into play as well. Post Media is well known for conservative leaning journalism. Irving tended to be more opportunistic in it's endorsements.

Interesting times.........

[OliverD]

:previous:

Indeed a shocker.

Everyone used to complain about the Irving media monopoly, but I'm not sure if this is a positive move or not.

Ownership will now not be local. There may not be the same commitment to local new coverage. Will three dailies for the province continue? Or, will there be a move to create a single "provincial" daily newspaper.

A whole new set of biases will come into play as well. Post Media is well known for conservative leaning journalism. Irving tended to be more opportunistic in it's endorsements.

Interesting times.........

I think a single provincial daily is inevitable.

[Irish1]

I think a single provincial daily is inevitable.

Not “inevitable”. It already exists.

Ten years ago determination and approval of all editorial opinions of all newspapers were switched to Jamie Irving’s direct control; more than seven years ago he centralized all editing and newspaper layout in Saint John. Almost all local editors were removed and replaced with a central editor system in Saint John under Jamie Irving’s control.

Irving hired a newspaper designer who changed the individual style of all the newspapers so all were identical. The only thing that’s different is the nameplate. Every day the content is simply reorganized by the Saint John crew to make it look like it’s different.

Each city newspaper — daily or weekly — has been operating as a bureau of Saint John.

All the photographers were fired about seven years ago, virtually all reporters were let go or reduced by attrition so there are less than a handful left in Moncton and Fredericton.

Only the printing is done outside of Saint John, and that’s only because it would cost too much to move it from Moncton.

The internet has been used as an excuse, but don’t be fooled: what has devastated the newspapers is a complete lack of content worth the money to buy it.

Will the switch to Postmedia be better? I certainly won’t be any worse!!!

[Franco401]

I don't know enough about Postmedia itself to really know how to feel about the actual news side of things, but if I had to choose between:

Being under the thumb of region's richest family with immense influence on the political process and known for using a print media monopoly protect the rest of their empire
Having no good daily newspapers since they're owned by a national company that doesn't care about the region and just wants to spread its own political agenda, whether you agree with it or not


I think I go with option 2. This is a rare move by the Irvings: They are known as the types to spend a lot of money, or in this case lose money running unprofitable papers, to keep the influence that Brunswick News carries. Instead, they've made a pretty safe financial decision.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

I'm concerned about the weakness of the news media in this province.

- CTV and Global are run out of Halifax, and give lip service coverage to news stories from NB. They don't really have news bureaus in the province any more. I'm pretty sure the local reporters work out of their homes now.
- CBC Radio is good, but CBC TV is a hollow shell compared to their operations in both NS and PEI. Our evening news is only 1/2 hour, and we don't even have a CBC weathercaster in NB (even Charlottetown does).
- Local private radio stations only do the minimum required for local news coverage in order to maintain their CRTC licensure.
- Our press monopoly is about to be outsourced to Toronto, with almost certain further downsizing to occur in the province. A single provincial paper with nominal reporting from the three cities (and the north) is inevitable. What will we end up with? 1-2 reporters per city? Will editorial content be decided locally or in Toronto? Will the paper be filled with wire service stories from the rest of Canada and around the world, no local interest or local sports coverage?

I've got a bad feeling about this........

I can see it now. There will be a big announcement for the New Brunswick Sun newspaper, probably based out of Saint John, with a hollow promise for "province wide" reporting.

[Franco401]

:previous:
I'm concerned about the weakness of the news media in this province.


Journalism in this province has been a joke for decades. There is no scenario (as it concerns this deal) where that does not remain the case. I honestly prefer the papers being run by an arm of the same enormous company harming journalism nationwide; rather than having the papers controlled by the company that's already the biggest player in many industries and in politics.

I can see it now. There will be a big announcement for the New Brunswick Sun newspaper, probably based out of Saint John, with a hollow promise for "province wide" reporting.

Absolutely. A province-wide paper's relationship with New Brunswickers will be a microcosm of The Globe and Mail's relationship with all of Canada.

[MonctonRad]

I have an online subscription to the T&T. I what I fear actually transpires, I will certainly be cancelling my subscription.

I have the subscription primarily for local news content. If there is to be none (or next to none) in a province wide daily, then there is no reason to continue. SSP is better for local development news than the T&T anyway..........

[Franco401]

Does the T&T actually feature good (or passable) local news coverage? I frequently pick up a print edition of the Daily Gleaner and the local section is like a local radio station website reporting on the stories that were too boring for CBC plus a single paragraph about something that actually mattered.

[Taeolas]

I haven't looked at our "local" papers in ages, probably not since the paywalls went up. But from glances at the checkouts occasionally, the sameness from seeing the DG and TJ side by side with identical stories on the front pages is very obvious. They're clearly the same paper with different titles and have been for a long time.

[Nashe]

I suspect this has to do with (IMHO) dwindling consumption of local, especially paper news at the expense of increasingly popular, well-established FREE online presences (cbc.ca, cnn, bbc, etc). I haven't read a "NB paper" in years (online or otherwise). If Irving doesn't NEED that local clout anymore, no sense handing on to a sinking ship.

[Irish1]

It has less to do with consumption of news and information than the willingness to pay for that information. The appetite for news and information remains the same as it always was. And the interest increases depending on the proximity and relevance of the information (that may seem intuitive, but it’s the opposite of the direction Jamie Irving has taken since assuming control in 2008.).

For example, people living in the west end in Moncton are passingly interested in that’s happening in Europe, somewhat interested in what’s happening in the US, more interested in what’s happening in Canada. They are increasingly interested in New Brunswick and more so in southeast New Brunswick. Much more in Moncton news and definitely interested in what’s going on in their section of the city and extremely interested in their own neighborhood. It’s a narrowing interest focus that holds true no matter where you live. The only exceptions are items that effect you specifically or in which you are personally interested.

As an aside, readers are especially interesting in topics discussed in these forums (new businesses, closing retailers, restaurants, and great local sales deals) — because it effects them personally.

So if you have a product that’s full of items that are important and interesting to people, they will pay for it.

[Lobster chucker]

It has less to do with consumption of news and information than the willingness to pay for that information. The appetite for news and information remains the same as it always was. And the interest increases depending on the proximity and relevance of the information (that may seem intuitive, but it’s the opposite of the direction Jamie Irving has taken since assuming control in 2008.).

For example, people living in the west end in Moncton are passingly interested in that’s happening in Europe, somewhat interested in what’s happening in the US, more interested in what’s happening in Canada. They are increasingly interested in New Brunswick and more so in southeast New Brunswick. Much more in Moncton news and definitely interested in what’s going on in their section of the city and extremely interested in their own neighborhood. It’s a narrowing interest focus that holds true no matter where you live. The only exceptions are items that effect you specifically or in which you are personally interested.

As an aside, readers are especially interesting in topics discussed in these forums (new businesses, closing retailers, restaurants, and great local sales deals) — because it effects them personally.

So if you have a product that’s full of items that are important and interesting to people, they will pay for it.


This deal has nothing to do with news, content or future of News papers. It has everthying to do with the distribution system for flyers and products that exist already

[Irish1]

This deal has nothing to do with news, content or future of News papers. It has everthying to do with the distribution system for flyers and products that exist already

You’re not wrong since flyers bring in the majority of newspaper income, but advertisers are charged more for flyer delivery in paid products since the readership level is much higher. And increasing numbers of municipalities have banned uninvited periodicals.

As well, publishers prefer paid products since it covers the cost of distribution.

Otherwise all newspapers everywhere would be free and delivered to every home (total market coverage).

[MonctonRad]

GNB News Release
Public health lab announced
02 March 2022

MONCTON (GNB) – A new provincial public health lab will be constructed within the existing Dr. Georges-L. Dumont University Hospital Centre to enhance public health monitoring, investigation and mitigation.

“The COVID-19 pandemic has shown the need for New Brunswick to have its own state-of-the-art public health lab,” said Health Minister Dorothy Shephard. “This will help ensure our province has a central hub capable of conducting timely and advanced testing in support of public health investigations.”

The lab will support the chief medical officer, unlike other existing labs which assist clinicians with individual patients.

The public health lab will be 929 sqm (10,000 sq ft). Work is scheduled to begin in November and is expected to be complete by the end of March 2024. An additional 11 full-time employees will be hired to staff the lab.

The Vitalité Health Network has developed a plan to create the public health lab by refurbishing space available in the hospital, separate from the existing clinical lab. This will ensure it meets the increased ventilation capacity and required safety features. The two labs will be in close proximity, allowing them to share staff and equipment.

“The Dr. Georges-L.-Dumont University Hospital Centre’s microbiology laboratory has been able to distinguish itself in the midst of a pandemic crisis because of its expertise in infectious diseases and leadership in terms of development, research and education,” said Stéphane Legacy, vice-president of outpatient and professional services at Vitalité Health Network. “Its evolution into a provincial public health lab will allow Vitalité to create new partnerships that will guide us in our mission to improve health care for all New Brunswickers.”

The public health lab will provide support to labs that are part of both the regional health authorities. The lab at the Saint John Regional Hospital will continue to handle samples of potential bioterrorism, enteric bacteria and mycobacterial cultures.

Some of the advantages of a dedicated public health lab include:

- providing a single location to house centralized data
- creating a dedicated research component at the federal and provincial level;
- designating a single site to provide provincial lab leadership and support;
- ensuring dedicated lab support is available for disaster preparedness; and
- ensuring New Brunswick is aligned with other provinces and territories for any future public health event.

Today’s announcement is part of the government’s health plan, Stabilizing Health Care: An Urgent Call to Action. Released in November 2021, the plan outlines a path forward, intended to stabilize and rebuild New Brunswick’s health-care system to be more citizen-focused, accessible, accountable, inclusive and service-oriented.

[MonctonRad]

Apartment Builders Fed Up With NB Tax
https://tj.news/times-and-transcript/101812543

I know this article is behind a paywall, but if you can possibly read it, you should. It concerns the infamous NB double property tax, and is based on a letter sent to the T&T by John McManaman of Thrive Properties.

In essence it brings to light the double whammy of increased property assessments on top of the existing provincial double property tax, which is making new apartment construction in the province unprofitable.

McManaman points out that he is increasingly looking at developing construction projects in NS rather than NB because of this. He had been planning on bringing 500 new units in the province on stream this year, 300 of which are in advanced stages of planning. He is thinking of delaying the other 200 units until the property tax mess is cleared up.

The housing shortage in NB is about to get much worse, and we are scaring developers away. Is this what we want as a province????

[MonctonRad]

There is apparently no March meeting for the Moncton PAC. :eek:

This is a little disconcerting. We are used to having 2-3 interesting proposals presented to PAC on a monthly basis, and this has been for at least the last 3-4 years or so. So far this year, I recall only one interesting proposal over the course of three months. :frog:

I wonder if there is a reason for this? Are we simply entering a catch-up phase as far as development is concerned? Certainly the queue contains a number of interesting projects that could potentially begin over the next couple of years.

Or, is there a growing concern amongst developers over supply chain issues and labour shortages. Are skyrocketing assessment values and the double property tax making any new developments unprofitable? We certainly seem to be hitting a new era of inflation and rising interest rates. Even global instability might be having an effect on developers psyches.

I wonder if there s anything going on here? This would be tragic if true. Certainly the need for new housing in the city is more dire than ever before. We need to be prepared to support our development community............ :yes:

[adamuptownsj]

There is apparently no March meeting for the Moncton PAC. :eek:

This is a little disconcerting. We are used to having 2-3 interesting proposals presented to PAC on a monthly basis, and this has been for at least the last 3-4 years or so. So far this year, I recall only one interesting proposal over the course of three months. :frog:

I wonder if there is a reason for this? Are we simply entering a catch-up phase as far as development is concerned? Certainly the queue contains a number of interesting projects that could potentially begin over the next couple of years.

Or, is there a growing concern amongst developers over supply chain issues and labour shortages. Are skyrocketing assessment values and the double property tax making any new developments unprofitable? We certainly seem to be hitting a new era of inflation and rising interest rates. Even global instability might be having an effect on developers psyches.

I wonder if there s anything going on here? This would be tragic if true. Certainly the need for new housing in the city is more dire than ever before. We need to be prepared to support our development community............ :yes:

Not just Moncton... Saint John has had one revised proposal (which we already saw in December anyway) other than minor zoning changes or temporary use permits this year. One! And it's a subdivision off Loch Lomond at that.

[cg15]

Apartment Builders Fed Up With NB Tax
https://tj.news/times-and-transcript/101812543

I know this article is behind a paywall, but if you can possibly read it, you should. It concerns the infamous NB double property tax, and is based on a letter sent to the T&T by John McManaman of Thrive Properties.

In essence it brings to light the double whammy of increased property assessments on top of the existing provincial double property tax, which is making new apartment construction in the province unprofitable.

McManaman points out that he is increasingly looking at developing construction projects in NS rather than NB because of this. He had been planning on bringing 500 new units in the province on stream this year, 300 of which are in advanced stages of planning. He is thinking of delaying the other 200 units until the property tax mess is cleared up.

The housing shortage in NB is about to get much worse, and we are scaring developers away. Is this what we want as a province????

And I’m sure if the taxes went down he would drop his rental rates /s

[mylesmalley]

I'll preface this by saying I don't know any more than you do. That said, only things that need variances end up in front of the PAC. Bigger stuff requiring rezoning goes to council. This time of year is always quieter. There's all kinds of work between the city departments and developers before stuff event gets to the approval stage.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions based on agendas from one month to the next.

[jonny golden]

Marshall Canada expanding to New Brunswick
65 more job for Moncton in the aerospace and defense sector that will pay an average of $50K. They've apparently already secured a long term lease, but the story doesn't say where.


https://onbcanada.ca/press-releases/marshall-canada-expanding-new-brunswick/

[jonny golden]

Already posted another thread

[MonctonRad]

Well, this is good news:

This Moncton Company Plans To Buy More Cranes To Keep Up With Demand
SAM MACDONALD MONCTON, NEW BRUNSWICK
https://huddle.today/2022/03/14/this-moncton-company-plans-to-buy-more-cranes-to-keep-up-with-demand/

Josh Lirette, manager of operations with Dieppe-based Craneco Atlantic Crane Rentals, told Huddle that the company plans to buy at least two or three tower cranes and several smaller ones, as demand ramps up for tower cranes.

Three new tower cranes for the market would go a long way in satisfying demand and speeding construction projects along. :tup:

[MonctonRad]

Apparently opponents to municipal amalgamation with the City of Moncton have won a partial victory.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/resized.images.us-east-1.tj.news/1216940/desktop/screenshot_2022-03-16_15.48.46.png

Enraged citizenry in the Stilesville area (north of the TCH), worried about losing their chicken coops will get to remain outside municipal boundaries.

People living in the Charles Lutes area (south of the TCH) apparently weren't as persuasive in their arguments. They will still be amalgamated with the city as a result of municipal reform.

The areas of concern are located between the solid black line and the purple dotted line on the left side of the image above.

[Portalrules123]

Apparently opponents to municipal amalgamation with the City of Moncton have won a partial victory.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/resized.images.us-east-1.tj.news/1216940/desktop/screenshot_2022-03-16_15.48.46.png

Enraged citizenry in the Stilesville area (north of the TCH), worried about losing their chicken coops will get to remain outside municipal boundaries.

People living in the Charles Lutes area (south of the TCH) apparently weren't as persuasive in their arguments. They will still be amalgamated with the city as a result of municipal reform.

The areas of concern are located between the solid black line and the purple dotted line on the left side of the image above.

Interesting, I wonder what differences were considered in the decision, like perhaps one area has a longer history of being a separate community or something? Then again, maybe the northern boundary simple has more people with friends on the council.......

[habs33]

Moncton planning committee balks at west end school plans (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-west-end-school-planning-committee-1.6402857)

[Lakeofthewood]

Moncton planning committee balks at west end school plans (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-west-end-school-planning-committee-1.6402857)

Nice to see those comments from City staff, and interesting to note the 3-storey tidbit. It's an incredibly disappointing location. Walking and cycling to school are important parts of a healthy community, and the province has spit in the face of residents with this location.

I'd love to know where they got the numbers for the expected % of walkers because the Hillcrest capture zone will basically be 0% walkers (except for those in Centennial Place) and I can't see the Bessborough zone being higher than 20%, given that it's a 2 km walk from this site to Bessborough school.

[habs33]

Moncton examining recreation needs for coming decade (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-recreation-plan-pool-north-end-1.6409292)

The city has hired Trace Planning and Design to carry out the work, which includes examining what recreation infrastructure the city already has, what's missing, and what may be needed in the future.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Interesting.

I can tell you that a major impetus for the North End YMCA was a desire by local residents for an indoor pool for the neighbourhood. When the city came back with a scaled back plan to partner with the YMCA for a facility including only a splash pad that there was great disappointment amongst the boosters, and they essentially withdrew from the process.

I see the plan calls for a new (third) outdoor pool for the clty, which obviously should go to the northwest end. There is land available by the new YMCA. I wonder if they would locate it there???

[MonctonRad]

According to an on line article in the T&T today, the city of Moncton has issued $40.1M in building permits for Q1 2022.

This is the highest Q1 building permit valuation since 2017, and a 57% increase in value over the same period last year.

The largest permit was for the new Ideal Roofing manufacturing facility in the Caledonia Industrial Park ($7.3M).

The city's development officer said that there were many more permits expected to be issued in the remainder of the year, including some tied to large scale developments.

This could be a record breaking year.......

[CreamOfpumpkin]

I guess it comes with the territory of announcing developments, that some either drag on or never get started. I can think of a couple of high-profile projects that seem to be stalled. I wonder where the next developments are going to be, seems like last summer we had a lot going on, and now I feel that those projects are wrapping up and I am anticipating the next couple of significant projects. My wish list of plots I hope to see get the green light this year -
1. Main and Vaugh Harvey 2. St. George and High 3. St. George and Cameron 4. St George (deluxe lot) and 5. King and Main.

[jonny golden]

St. Bernard's Square is one that I'm looking forward to. I drove by the lot today and there's nothing happening yet. Hopefully we see some equipment on the site soon.

[CreamOfpumpkin]

I feel as though st. Benard may be delayed, maybe they are waiting on the material cost to go down. But they should have at least construction fencing by now

[MonctonRad]

I feel as though St. Bernard may be delayed, maybe they are waiting on the material cost to go down. But they should have at least construction fencing by now

I'm not going to panic for now, but if there is no construction fencing up or stakes in the ground by the first of May, then I will start to worry.

This is a significant project, and Groupe Frederic is a bit of an unknown. There isn't much online about this company. If they are pushing the envelope with this project, then financing could be tight, and could be affected by cost inflation.

I hope not. I love this project.......

[jonny golden]

I'm not going to panic for now, but if there is no construction fencing up or stakes in the ground by the first of May, then I will start to worry.

This is a significant project, and Groupe Frederic is a bit of an unknown. There isn't much online about this company. If they are pushing the envelope with this project, then financing could be tight, and could be affected by cost inflation.

I hope not. I love this project.......

I've had a gut feeling about this project for some time now, and not a positive feeling. If built, it would be a major shot in the arm for downtown so I really hope it proceeds as it was presented last year.

[MonctonPerson]

I'm not going to panic for now, but if there is no construction fencing up or stakes in the ground by the first of May, then I will start to worry.

This is a significant project, and Groupe Frederic is a bit of an unknown. There isn't much online about this company. If they are pushing the envelope with this project, then financing could be tight, and could be affected by cost inflation.

I hope not. I love this project.......

Groupe Frederic sold the land in February to a numbered company that lists Trevor Ritchie as its director. One of his companies was also behind the building on Weldon with townhouses on the ground floor.

What this means for the site plans is unclear. Last month (https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/councilmeetings/2022/Decisions/2022-03-21%20Decisions-D%C3%A9cisions.pdf) city council approved changing over the development incentive from Groupe Frederic to the company that now owns the land.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Very Interesting. I'm going to move this discussion to the St. Bernard Square thread

[MonctonRad]

April 27th meeting of the Moncton PAC:

https://www.moncton.ca/planning-advisory-committee

Only two items on the agenda (so far), neither of which are of any consequence. This is the perpetuation of a pattern so far this year. We are now 1/3rd of the way through 2022, and very little of any consequence (aside from the new west end anglophone school) has been presented.

This on top of the news that St. Bernard Square is in very serious jeopardy - Should we be concerned??? :(

[jonny golden]

When they recently announced the first quarter building permit numbers, Kevin Silliker Director of Economic Development said that there are many projects in the pipeline for 2022 that will be tied to large-scale permits. So hopefully we'll hear some news very soon about these projects.

I have to say that I'm really disappointed about St. Bernard's Square though. What a boost to the east end of downtown it would have been. Let's hope the new developers come up with something similar in scale. I wonder if it would make sense for them to proceed with the Frederic Properties plan?

[ColSJ]

April 27th meeting of the Moncton PAC:

https://www.moncton.ca/planning-advisory-committee

Only two items on the agenda (so far), neither of which are of any consequence. This is the perpetuation of a pattern so far this year. We are now 1/3rd of the way through 2022, and very little of any consequence (aside from the new west end anglophone school) has been presented.

This on top of the news that St. Bernard Square is in very serious jeopardy - Should we be concerned??? :(

I wouldn’t hit the alarm bell just yet. Considering all three cities have had an underwhelming spring season of proposals with a hot housing market my guess is this is a result of both a huge pipeline of upcoming and currently existing projects and shortage of labour. In a province the size of 800,000 people you can only do so much until you quite literally run out of workers.

As far as Moncton goes a diversification of developers would likely help. It seems as though there are a couple high profile developers in the metro Moncton area who have practically dominated the landscape and they have their hands tied right now projects on the go.

[MonctonRad]

Agenda for the May 25th meeting of Moncton PAC. Another non impressive agenda. The only item of note is phase two of the Birch Meadows apartment complex on Highlandview Drive.

https://www.moncton.ca/planning-advisory-committee

[Monctoncore]

Agenda for the May 25th meeting of Moncton PAC. Another non impressive agenda. The only item of note is phase two of the Birch Meadows apartment complex on Highlandview Drive.

https://www.moncton.ca/planning-advisory-committee

My gut says some bigger things are coming

[adamuptownsj]

April 27th meeting of the Moncton PAC:

https://www.moncton.ca/planning-advisory-committee

Only two items on the agenda (so far), neither of which are of any consequence. This is the perpetuation of a pattern so far this year. We are now 1/3rd of the way through 2022, and very little of any consequence (aside from the new west end anglophone school) has been presented.

This on top of the news that St. Bernard Square is in very serious jeopardy - Should we be concerned??? :(

You think you guys have it bad? Other than Fundy Quay's first building and the unfunded, approved courthouse to theater conversion, SJ has been a ghost town. PAC has been entirely small ball rezoning/variance barring a 12 room supporting housing project on Brunswick and a small apartment subdivision on Loch Lomond. Fredericton is still humming along though.

[Mud]

The disappointing bit for me isn't so much the number of projects on the go so much as their location. Fair number of buildings in different stages right now but only a few are downtown where Moncton sorely needs them.

Let's hope it's mostly a tight labour/material market holding things up.

[OliverD]

Could it also be that most projects right now don't need rezonings or variances?

[MonctonRad]

Could it also be that most projects right now don't need rezonings or variances?

Construction is percolating along at a brisk pace in the city, but, for the most part, they seem to be dealing with a backlog of previously approved projects. There are still a number of approved projects that have not yet commenced.

I'm not really worried. It's just disappointing in the sense that new projects coming to light always generate the most interest.

[jonny golden]

Sooner or later the Ashford lands behind Assomption Place will get developed. It will happen in stages over time, but will transform the downtown. You'd have to think that by now, the planning for this is well advanced. Hopefully we hear something soon.

[Ammn_guy]

They can name the development the ash lands.. in remembrance of all the homeless brush fires that once ravished the nearby lands. :)

Hoping this area kicks off soon. looking forward to Downtown coming alive again, with the return of some office workers.

Sooner or later the Ashford lands behind Assomption Place will get developed. It will happen in stages over time, but will transform the downtown. You'd have to think that by now, the planning for this is well advanced. Hopefully we hear something soon.

[josh_cat_eyes]

https://youtu.be/Gm-KrSqy1EM

I thought this video on the urban growth boundary was very interesting and was especially applicable to greater Moncton. They video states that in Portland Oregon, they require enough land inside the boundary for 20 years of growth, and that the city can choose to expand the boundary once every 6 years. If they choose not to, they may choose to rezone some areas to require more density if that land is every redeveloped.

[shazapple]

I think that type of system needs a strong rural vs urban divide in order to work. The city would have to be motivated to provide shared services (eg transit) to it's entire area, as well as be aware of the costs that sprawl puts on those services. This might be a bit of a tall order for cities in NB at the moment.

A boundary might help get them to that point but like he said it would need a lot of other policies to ease the pain in the interim.

[Taeolas]

The other factor is you would need some sort of agreement with Riverview and Dieppe to really make it work for Moncton; otherwise Moncton could be constrained but you'll see Dieppe looping around to grab easier land that Moncton can't take yet.

This sort of planning idea might work better for Fredericton because other than Oromocto, Freddy doesn't really have anyone major on its boundaries. Saint John would have similar problems (if not worse problems) then Moncton, consider SJ already has a problem with its outer communities outgrowing the core city while not paying for the city core services they use.

[josh_cat_eyes]

In the example given in the video, the state essentially set everything up, all the city’s had to do was follow the states lead. The province of NB could easily do this, but they went a different route and decided to force amalgamation on the whole province.

[PEI highway guy]

I know this is off topic, but I could not figure out where to place it. The Moncton Flyers under 18 Hockey team won their semi-final game in the Cdn Midget under 18 championships. They play for the Cdn Championship on TSN 3/4 at 10:30 OR 11 pm tonight. I watched them as a kid, I really hope they win.