The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[jonny golden]

My understanding is that there is little difference between the two. It's a designation by sq/ft and perhaps some other features like capability to fill third party orders and such. Seems that the lines are a bit blurry, but my family that works there always corrects me.

I'm sure at some point NB will have some sort of Amazon presence. Despite my personal efforts to avoid them at all cost.

Do you think that Moncton would have a large enough population coverage area for an Amazon facility given the warehouse in Halifax?

[MonctonPerson]

Here is the link for the March PAC meeting for the city of Moncton:

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/PAC/March_27_2024/Agenda_March_27_Ordre_du_jour.pdf

The only item of note is this:



Curiously, there is no supporting documentation posted on the PAC website.

Sign of the future now that the city has approved reducing what requires PAC approval.

The Jonathan Park item was discussed at the last city council meeting. Basically, another street with homes close to Rayan, but the developer is proposing to hand over more land to the city as a greenspace buffer to address concerns about the north end smells.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Sign of the future now that the city has approved reducing what requires PAC approval.

The Jonathan Park item was discussed at the last city council meeting. Basically, another street with homes close to Rayan, but the developer is proposing to hand over more land to the city as a greenspace buffer to address concerns about the north end smells.

I’m pretty sure they figured out it was the Transaqua facility where they make mulch that was causing the smell. Speaking of which, if anyone ever needs mulch, I highly recommend this! It’s free unless you need a large amount and require them to load it for you.

[MonctonRad]

Moncton Irving land no longer a factor in city housing plans
City plan adopted in 2017 called for hundreds of homes on area now not expected to be developed
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Mar 21, 2024 6:00 AM ADT | Last Updated: 3 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-irving-land-housing-plans-1.7149491

https://i.cbc.ca/1.7149503.1710943774!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/irving-land.jpg
CBC Photo of the land in question. Robert Irving's home and horse farm is in the upper left of the image. He has purchased the wooded land in the foreground.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.7149506.1710957898!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/humphreys-brook-neighbourhood-plan.jpg
CBC photo - This had been the city's plan for the proposed Humphrey Brook neighbourhood (prior to Irving buying the land)

Hundreds of acres in Moncton where the city expected thousands of people to call home are now no longer a factor in its plans after the land was purchased by one of New Brunswick's most powerful families.

It's a change that comes as the city plans to overhaul zoning rules to address what the city's mayor has described as a "crisis situation" for housing.

The properties in the city's east end cover an area comparable in size to Moncton's downtown. They were purchased almost a decade ago by Robert Irving and the company he leads, Cavendish Farms.

Around the time of the purchases, the city spent $150,000 and two years on a plan calling for the area to become home to thousands of people by the 2030s.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Moncton Irving land no longer a factor in city housing plans
City plan adopted in 2017 called for hundreds of homes on area now not expected to be developed
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Mar 21, 2024 6:00 AM ADT | Last Updated: 3 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-irving-land-housing-plans-1.7149491

https://i.cbc.ca/1.7149503.1710943774!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/irving-land.jpg
CBC Photo of the land in question. Robert Irving's home and horse farm is in the upper left of the image. He has purchased the wooded land in the foreground.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.7149506.1710957898!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/humphreys-brook-neighbourhood-plan.jpg
CBC photo - This had been the city's plan for the proposed Humphrey Brook neighbourhood (prior to Irving buying the land)
Screw Robert Irving. Billionaires shouldn’t exist and they shouldn’t be holding valuable land hostage like this either. They should make him pay for the the cost of the plan. Or expropriate the land to at least connect the existing area to the industrial park north of the train tracks.

[tmacdougall]

Setting aside personal emotions, this situation epitomizes pure capitalism.

If you're seeking to assign blame for the plan's expenses, perhaps directing your focus towards city officials would be apt. To my knowledge, the city proceeded with the plan despite being aware that the land wouldn't be accessible.

Screw Robert Irving. Billionaires shouldn’t exist and they shouldn’t be holding valuable land hostage like this either. They should make him pay for the the cost of the plan. Or expropriate the land to at least connect the existing area to the industrial park north of the train tracks.

[LewisVillis]

Imagine you own a little oasis in the middle of the suburbs, and you've built a beautiful house and stables for your equine-loving equestrian wife, but then dammit, there are rumours, then the city is making actual plans to develop those quiet woods all around you. And wasn't that why you moved out here in the first place? Now your wife is distraught, she wants to move (Florida!), but what if the city and the landowners aren't the same page, and heck, what's a few mill out of the chequing account, and what if her birthday was approaching. Hell of a gift, I tell ya. "All this, Jill-Babe" - he gestures to the forest far and wide - "it's yours now." "W-what?!" She looks her "Bob-cat" fiercely in the eyes, purrs, and...

Anyway! Perhaps there's a familial, human side to this, on top of some daddy-big-bucks taking advantage of a real estate opportunity.

[Sunnybrae]

Screw Robert Irving. Billionaires shouldn’t exist and they shouldn’t be holding valuable land hostage like this either. They should make him pay for the the cost of the plan. Or expropriate the land to at least connect the existing area to the industrial park north of the train tracks.

I'm with ya comrade! :runaway:

[MonctonRad]

I'm in the middle. Did Robert Irving need to buy so much land as to kibosh the entire Humphrey Brook Neighbourhood Plan - probably not, but I could understand he might want to have a substantial treed buffer for privacy purposes. I would have liked it if a compromise could have been reached, and the plan scaled back some, but not completely discarded.

In any event, this is a lost opportunity for the city.

[darkharbour]

I'm in the middle. Did Robert Irving need to buy so much land as to kibosh the entire Humphrey Brook Neighbourhood Plan - probably not, but I could understand he might want to have a substantial treed buffer for privacy purposes. I would have liked it if a compromise could have been reached, and the plan scaled back some, but not completely discarded.


I'm sure everyone knows this in New Brunswick, but having grown up in Rothesay and now living next door to Arthur, the Irving family certainly loves to have large buffers around their homes. This extends to the purchase of neighbouring houses that they then tear down and then re-vegetate the plots to get a bigger buffer (I witnessed this happening next door to me my entire life).

[jnaygull]

I'm in the middle. Did Robert Irving need to buy so much land as to kibosh the entire Humphrey Brook Neighbourhood Plan - probably not, but I could understand he might want to have a substantial treed buffer for privacy purposes. I would have liked it if a compromise could have been reached, and the plan scaled back some, but not completely discarded.

In any event, this is a lost opportunity for the city.

If I were in his shoes, I would have done the same.

Up instead of out. I am glad some greenery was saved.

... now is Mr Irving paying his share of taxes on said land? :sly:

[Riberview]

If I were in his shoes, I would have done the same.

Up instead of out. I am glad some greenery was saved.

... now is Mr Irving paying his share of taxes on said land? :sly:

well the giant parcel he purchased for $3.9mil is assessed at $2.6mil. he pays $63,931 this year. up from $63,509 last year.

his mansion is assessed at $5.4mil, and he pays $74k.. and the horse barn is assessed at $825k, and he pays $20k.

those are the bills anyway. whether he pays it is another question :runaway:

[Ifyoubuildit]

Setting aside personal emotions, this situation epitomizes pure capitalism.

If you're seeking to assign blame for the plan's expenses, perhaps directing your focus towards city officials would be apt. To my knowledge, the city proceeded with the plan despite being aware that the land wouldn't be accessible.

What likely happened is the city was forcing the owner to build and pay for ALL of the infra-structure such as new boulevards, traffic circles, sidewalks, public green space, retention ponds, etc which likely made any business plan to monetize their land via development infeasible. This plan likely took years to develop at the developers cost to meet city demands. Then Mr. Irving came along and offered them a decent amount, at least allowing them to recoup some of their money and walk away from all the risk. Just a hypothesis.

[OliverD]

What likely happened is the city was forcing the owner to build and pay for ALL of the infra-structure such as new boulevards, traffic circles, sidewalks, public green space, retention ponds, etc which likely made any business plan to monetize their land via development infeasible. This plan likely took years to develop at the developers cost to meet city demands. Then Mr. Irving came along and offered them a decent amount, at least allowing them to recoup some of their money and walk away from all the risk. Just a hypothesis.

Isn't it typical for developers to pay for new infrastructure anyways?

[josh_cat_eyes]

Isn't it typical for developers to pay for new infrastructure anyways?

Didn’t the city make a policy that they can cover large costs like bridges and stuff like that?

[Ifyoubuildit]

Didn’t the city make a policy that they can cover large costs like bridges and stuff like that?

I believe the city only recently came out with a “charge-back” program in which they still charge the developers for infrastructure. But if the infrastructure benefits an adjacent land owner such as building a bridge, the adjacent land owner will be on the hook for part of the bridge. I think under this program the city may also front some infrastructure costs, but the owner will not be granted a development permit until they pay. With the new housing crisis and federal housing money floating around, maybe govt will cover some infrastructure like the recently announced Dieppe Blvd extension.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

I have a general question about our city and it’s development, very sorry if I interrupt any discussion and please delete my message if it’s the case.
Manchester city, in the UK, has had a huge boom in construction of skyscrapers in the last 10 years and it looks totally unrecognizable. This is partially due to the fact that the city generously lends enormous sums to developers to help them with the projects. Are there any incentives here in Moncton for developers to build high rises ? Or are we still very far from that.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-68655999

[MonctonRad]

Incentive programs do exist, but, they are modest, and are for specific purposes (such as the inclusion of non market value rental units for low income people). Nothing like in Manchester.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Alright thanks man !

[Nashe]

I believe there are significant property tax breaks for developers downtown.

[MonctonRad]

I believe there are significant property tax breaks for developers downtown.

In certain designated development zones, yes.

[habs33]

Moncton drafting new vision for riverfront (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-council-riverfront-plan-1.7161326)

Moncton is taking a closer look at the city's riverfront.

"We really want to make the riverfront a destination and a must-see and a must-do experience in Moncton," Kevin Silliker, the city's director of economic development, said in an interview.

Silliker said the plan will include public consultation over the coming months to develop a vision of what can be added or improved along the Petitcodiac River, from the border with Dieppe west to the Brenda Robertson Bridge.

[ChampduLarge]

Although the plan seems to focus on greenspace, one opportunity that I think has been missed is to develop the space where the old pier was. Some years ago there was obviously a project to fix this area up, and there's a boardwalk and that odd little building, whose purpose eludes me. What is unfortunate about this space is that it's surrounded by the ass-end of a strip mall. I'd love to see the city work with the owner of that property to encourage something that includes commercial and restaurant uses that truly brings people to the riverside. I know this is a stretch, and not what this plan is about, but that always strikes me as a lost opportunity.

[adamuptownsj]

Although the plan seems to focus on greenspace, one opportunity that I think has been missed is to develop the space where the old pier was. Some years ago there was obviously a project to fix this area up, and there's a boardwalk and that odd little building, whose purpose eludes me. What is unfortunate about this space is that it's surrounded by the ass-end of a strip mall. I'd love to see the city work with the owner of that property to encourage something that includes commercial and restaurant uses that truly brings people to the riverside. I know this is a stretch, and not what this plan is about, but that always strikes me as a lost opportunity.

The vacant lots between the Rodd and the strip mall should be very well positioned for mixed-use, same with the parking lots just north and west of the Treitz House.

[adamuptownsj]

I wonder who owns/if anyone uses the cool brick warehouse at 105 Albert. I'm very intrigued by it.

[Nashe]

I wonder who owns/if anyone uses the cool brick warehouse at 105 Albert. I'm very intrigued by it.
I'm not sure who owns it but I believe that was part of the CN infrastructure, possibly where trains were serviced.

[sailor734]

Moncton drafting new vision for riverfront (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-council-riverfront-plan-1.7161326)

Moncton is taking a closer look at the city's riverfront.

"We really want to make the riverfront a destination and a must-see and a must-do experience in Moncton," Kevin Silliker, the city's director of economic development, said in an interview.

Silliker said the plan will include public consultation over the coming months to develop a vision of what can be added or improved along the Petitcodiac River, from the border with Dieppe west to the Brenda Robertson Bridge.

I think it would need a lot of infrastructure built....otherwise I really don't see the attraction in getting up close to marshy mudbanks. :shrug:

[adamuptownsj]

I'm not sure who owns it but I believe that was part of the CN infrastructure, possibly where trains were serviced.

It's a distinct PID from the warehouse and lot to the north and west, which IIRC is CN owned... and also underutilized.

[Mud]

That a city the size of Moncton still has empty lots and strip malls along its defining natural feature is baffling. It's not the prettiest river around I get that but it has other things going for it that make it pretty unique.

It has the stark tidal changes that make the bay so famous, marine mammals swim up on occasion, a healthy bird pf prey population, etc. I honestly think people wouldn't be as harsh on the river if it had some work done on the Moncton/Dieppe border area. That's what's making the river so ugly because I've never heard complaints about the scenery downriver or that of the Salmon and Shubenacadie in NS.

[OliverD]

That a city the size of Moncton still has empty lots and strip malls along its defining natural feature is baffling. It's not the prettiest river around I get that but it has other things going for it that make it pretty unique.

It has the stark tidal changes that make the bay so famous, marine mammals swim up on occasion, a healthy bird pf prey population, etc. I honestly think people wouldn't be as harsh on the river if it had some work done on the Moncton/Dieppe border area. That's what's making the river so ugly because I've never heard complaints about the scenery downriver or that of the Salmon and Shubenacadie in NS.

I think a lot of towns and cities have this problem. Perhaps nothing is worse than Bridgewater though.

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308010901_465741302246875_636508372704401325_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=eDXeoyBzcf8AX-S8gLR&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCfB8J6RWjH7LuoezQsQ4cnl1i00BIXUiDUEwIwyMB9Ig&oe=66132177

[josh_cat_eyes]

Some thoughts I had on this riverfront master plan. I do find it encouraging that they are looking at it basically from the Dieppe border to the Brenda Robertson Bridge. Hopefully this involves utilizing the former landfill much more than it currently is.

First thing that I would love to see them do that wouldn’t actually require much money (if any at all and might actually make the city some money) is to clean up some of the ROW’s along Assumption! The area with the ball fields is actually all just one big parcel. There is no distinction between the marshy land south of Waterloo, the actual roadway and the ball fields. If they subdivided these, they could sell the portion of the property that has no value to the city. There is lots of little bits like this all around the city but this is certainly the worst one. I get it that the city owns them both, but there should be a distinction.


A second thing they NEED to do, is add some sort of sidewalk or multi use path along the western portion of assumption. I’m astounded how this has not already been done.

A third thing I’d like to see them do with this plan is extend assumption westward to the traffic circle. This is already on the city’s radar as it’s on their future roads map, but I wonder if this plan might cause this to happen sooner than later. It would also likely have to be done in conjunction with the provincial DOT. Even if there is as a phase one that ended at Ivan Rand, it could get the ball rolling while the city and province work out details for the traffic circle. After this extension opens, you would be able to give a road diet to west main along this portion. This would allow for on street parking (between jones lake and main essentially) and a dedicated bike lane or dedicated bus stop turn offs.

Another thought I had about the former landfill area, is you might be able to build a school in the area behind the Tim Hortons. I believe this was the part that they added the causeway material on top of, so it should be suitable to build a school on. You could build a pedestrian overpass crossing Main st. & the rail line to replace the at grade crossing at Milner Road and perhaps have a second crossing at Mount Royal Blvd.

One final thought, I’d love to see them properly connect the waterfront trail with the Jones Lake trail that is along westmount and with the panacadie trail that ends in the CBC parking lot. Some sort of bridge pedestrian bridge connecting to riverview would also be amazing!

[Riberview]

I wonder who owns/if anyone uses the cool brick warehouse at 105 Albert. I'm very intrigued by it.

Heritage Properties owns this I believe. I've been in it, just random storage for their other properties. Mostly empty. SUPER old heavy timber, evidence of fires in years past. Quite a history to it i'm sure.

[MonctonPerson]

Heritage Properties owns this I believe. I've been in it, just random storage for their other properties. Mostly empty. SUPER old heavy timber, evidence of fires in years past. Quite a history to it i'm sure.

Indeed, it's owned by Heritage.

[adamuptownsj]

Interesting- thanks. It deserves better than being a warehouse. Maybe some synergy with Euston Park Social, or open-concept office.

[Mud]

I think a lot of towns and cities have this problem. Perhaps nothing is worse than Bridgewater though.

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308010901_465741302246875_636508372704401325_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=eDXeoyBzcf8AX-S8gLR&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCfB8J6RWjH7LuoezQsQ4cnl1i00BIXUiDUEwIwyMB9Ig&oe=66132177

If I remember correctly they recently approved a re-development for that one. It's crazy how priorities have changed in the past few decades vis-à-vis waterfront land like this.

[OliverD]

If I remember correctly they recently approved a re-development for that one. It's crazy how priorities have changed in the past few decades vis-à-vis waterfront land like this.

You're right, they did.

[MonctonPerson]

If I remember correctly they recently approved a re-development for that one. It's crazy how priorities have changed in the past few decades vis-à-vis waterfront land like this.

And the movie theatre on the bottom left of that image just announced it's shutting down, so there's more chance for redevelopment.

[Mud]

And the movie theatre on the bottom left of that image just announced it's shutting down, so there's more chance for redevelopment.

Good riddance. Between places like this and Moncton's asphalt sea our kids will be astounded at the amount of valuable land we set aside for surface parking.

[StatelyElms]

Good riddance. Between places like this and Moncton's asphalt sea our kids will be astounded at the amount of valuable land we set aside for surface parking.

I really hope they will be.

[lirette]

Good riddance. Between places like this and Moncton's asphalt sea our kids will be astounded at the amount of valuable land we set aside for surface parking.

I'm too young to have any awareness of how people felt when these decisions were made.

For example when the Rogers Call Centre was built in the middle of Downtown Moncton was there any pushback? Or even some of the industrial buildings on Albert St like Maritime Window & Marathon Fluid systems. These dont belong downtown.

That area of downtown could be super unique if we didnt fill it with random buildings like that. Perhaps the housing on Albert Street would have been far more maintained and "luxurious" had this not happened. Now we likely wont see that neighbourhood fully transform for another 5-10 years. Three Sisters, rcmp station, euston park etc will have an influence.

I always got the feeling though that Moncton like many other maritime cities and towns considered themselves a have not for so long that they just they approved any development they could because "jobs". Growing up here in the late 90's/2000's the dominate conversation was always about people moving out west for work, its actually kind of crazy to think about how much that has changed in just a few years.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

They could start by using the old rendering proposed for downing street. I know a lot has changed but I like the pedestrian vibe this has, especially with the Market moving there eventually.

Having a permanent stage oriented towards Downing street opens up the possibility for some significant events as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPFPMMnq4Lw

[Monctoncore]

They could start by using the old rendering proposed for downing street. I know a lot has changed but I like the pedestrian vibe this has, especially with the Market moving there eventually.

Having a permanent stage oriented towards Downing street opens up the possibility for some significant events as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPFPMMnq4Lw

Have they changed the design of downing? It’s been so delayed after they did the first section.

[riverviewer]

I'm too young to have any awareness of how people felt when these decisions were made.

For example when the Rogers Call Centre was built in the middle of Downtown Moncton was there any pushback? .

There was hope not pushback because there were a lot of promises and it was better than an abandoned lumber yard.

Moncton's core gets urban facelift
THE GLOBE AND MAIL
JULY 30, 2002

Work is also under way at the former Beaver Lumber Co. Ltd. site nearby. A 55,000-square-foot call centre will open there next month, providing 700 new jobs on land purchased from the city by Verdiroc Development Corp. of Toronto. The tenant is Rogers Communications Inc., also of Toronto.

Verdiroc, which develops and manages institutional, commercial and residential properties in Ontario, Quebec and Florida, has also proposed more than $100-million worth of building projects -- including a convention centre, a hotel, office space, an entertainment and parking facility, an aquatic centre, a casino and a courthouse -- for the remaining property that is still owned by the city.

A casino, says Kevin Green, Verdiroc's president, would "encourage tourism, conferences, hotel and restaurant uses. A casino can make the difference between a good development and a great development."

Ron Gaudet, president of the Greater Moncton Economic Commission, describes the proposed courthouse as a "huge priority" in a public-private partnership that involves the New Brunswick government.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/monctons-core-gets-urban-facelift/article22396629/?utm_source=Shared+Article+Sent+to+User&utm_medium=E-mail:+Newsletters+/+E-Blasts+/+etc.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

[Monctoncore]

There was hope not pushback because there were a lot of promises and it was better than an abandoned lumber yard.

Moncton's core gets urban facelift
THE GLOBE AND MAIL
JULY 30, 2002

Work is also under way at the former Beaver Lumber Co. Ltd. site nearby. A 55,000-square-foot call centre will open there next month, providing 700 new jobs on land purchased from the city by Verdiroc Development Corp. of Toronto. The tenant is Rogers Communications Inc., also of Toronto.

Verdiroc, which develops and manages institutional, commercial and residential properties in Ontario, Quebec and Florida, has also proposed more than $100-million worth of building projects -- including a convention centre, a hotel, office space, an entertainment and parking facility, an aquatic centre, a casino and a courthouse -- for the remaining property that is still owned by the city.

A casino, says Kevin Green, Verdiroc's president, would "encourage tourism, conferences, hotel and restaurant uses. A casino can make the difference between a good development and a great development."

Ron Gaudet, president of the Greater Moncton Economic Commission, describes the proposed courthouse as a "huge priority" in a public-private partnership that involves the New Brunswick government.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/monctons-core-gets-urban-facelift/article22396629/?utm_source=Shared+Article+Sent+to+User&utm_medium=E-mail:+Newsletters+/+E-Blasts+/+etc.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

This is something that I remember and being pretty excited about all the plans they had for downtown. This is what concerns me about Ashford and their plans. We continue to hear about their plans and their ideas, but yet we have you to see what they have planned. Are they waiting for the city to finally work on and finish the reconnecting of roads and the second half of Downing Street? It just seems very similar to Verdiroc and what they did.

[drewber]

There was hope not pushback because there were a lot of promises and it was better than an abandoned lumber yard.

Moncton's core gets urban facelift
THE GLOBE AND MAIL
JULY 30, 2002

Work is also under way at the former Beaver Lumber Co. Ltd. site nearby. A 55,000-square-foot call centre will open there next month, providing 700 new jobs on land purchased from the city by Verdiroc Development Corp. of Toronto. The tenant is Rogers Communications Inc., also of Toronto.

Verdiroc, which develops and manages institutional, commercial and residential properties in Ontario, Quebec and Florida, has also proposed more than $100-million worth of building projects -- including a convention centre, a hotel, office space, an entertainment and parking facility, an aquatic centre, a casino and a courthouse -- for the remaining property that is still owned by the city.

A casino, says Kevin Green, Verdiroc's president, would "encourage tourism, conferences, hotel and restaurant uses. A casino can make the difference between a good development and a great development."

Ron Gaudet, president of the Greater Moncton Economic Commission, describes the proposed courthouse as a "huge priority" in a public-private partnership that involves the New Brunswick government.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/monctons-core-gets-urban-facelift/article22396629/?utm_source=Shared+Article+Sent+to+User&utm_medium=E-mail:+Newsletters+/+E-Blasts+/+etc.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

Interesting article to read all these years later. I moved here in 2003 and had no idea about the ghost town from 14 years prior. The population part was interesting too with 4000 people in 6 years being good growth. We gained 21k people from 2017-2022.

[adamuptownsj]

Has Moncton ever considered connecting Grand Trunk/Millennium Boulevard to Centennial Park Road? It wouldn't take much, and would improve north/south connectivity.

[riverviewer]

Has Moncton ever considered connecting Grand Trunk/Millennium Boulevard to Centennial Park Road? It wouldn't take much, and would improve north/south connectivity.

That was the original idea, but it was vetoed by parents concerned with a major artery so close to the splshpad/playground and the safety fears of the increased traffic between the parking lot and the Rocky Stone Field football pitch.

[MonctonPerson]

That was the original idea, but it was vetoed by parents concerned with a major artery so close to the splshpad/playground and the safety fears of the increased traffic between the parking lot and the Rocky Stone Field football pitch.

It came up again a few years ago when there was a developer pushing getting the new west end school built along Millennium but similar reasoning used to push back against the idea.

[benvui]

One thing they could do with the waterfront that could attract people is to build a botanical garden/biodome something educational they could even have a display with showing the species of animals that inhabit the marsh areas.

[lirette]

One thing they could do with the waterfront that could attract people is to build a botanical garden/biodome something educational they could even have a display with showing the species of animals that inhabit the marsh areas.

Kingsbrae Garden is a wonderful attraction in St Andrews, something even a half or 3/4 on the scale of that would do wonders for the waterfront. Botanical Gardens are something lacking in the maritimes in general.

[David_99]

Kingsbrae Garden is a wonderful attraction in St Andrews, something even a half or 3/4 on the scale of that would do wonders for the waterfront. Botanical Gardens are something lacking in the maritimes in general.

I always thought once the old RCMP building is demolished, they could take the whole area from that corner to the Rodd and enhance Bore Park into a nice downtown botanical garden. Even convert part of the Rodd into a Picaroons type destination for the Trail users.

[jonny golden]

I always thought once the old RCMP building is demolished, they could take the whole area from that corner to the Rodd and enhance Bore Park into a nice downtown botanical garden. Even convert part of the Rodd into a Picaroons type destination for the Trail users.

There's a lot of potential once the RCMP leaves the current building. There's your typical downtown Moncton parking lots surrounding it, so lets hope that somebody comes up with a compelling vision for the area.

It's a prominent location that should eventually be home to something special, whatever that will be.

[habs33]

Wasn't sure where to post this but the Memramcook Institute has been sold with plans for housing, boutique hotel

Mayor Maxime Bourgeois said the province’s sale of the Memramcook Institute was finalized last week. Bourgeois said the new owner is Moncton-based development company Heritage Developments Ltd.

Bourgeois said the company’s vision for the five-storey building includes converting two floors into a boutique hotel.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Good luck with that.

The Memramcook Institute is a heritage building, but, it's location makes it very difficult to meaningfully repurpose. I wish them well, but this could be a difficult project for them.

Heritage Developments also owns the old MHS. I wish they would just convert the building to loft apartments and be done with it. To see this grand building sitting empty year after year is just heartbreaking.......

[lirette]

Proximity to the golf course could give them some good synergies for both the rentals and hotel (stay & play). Outside of that perhaps you fill up the hotel for the odd event at dover park or for YQM, or hockey teams in the winter.

From a housing perspective you could have people working at the penitentiary who would enjoy a upscale housing option.

Other than the golf course though there is definitely a lack of attractions & shops in the immediate area compared to other boutique hotels & condos around Moncton. I agree if heritage cant seem to convert MHS properly to housing in the current crisis this is a potentially bigger challenge. Heritage has done very little to its signature property in heritage court in recent yhears to give me much confidence.

[Sandbagger]

Heritage Developments also owns the old MHS. I wish they would just convert the building to loft apartments and be done with it. To see this grand building sitting empty year after year is just heartbreaking.......

I was just at (new) MHS over the weekend for their drama production of Mama Mia. Phenomenal presentation for a high school production. They had sold out shows of 500+ all week. But they are performing in a boring, sterile, cafetorium with uncomfortable plastic chairs squeezed together with a half inch of space in between. It would have been amazing to see in the old auditorium.

[MonctonRad]

Here is the pdf for the April meeting of the PAC for the city of Moncton.

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/PAC/April_24_2024/1_Agenda_Ordre_du_jour_April_24_avril.pdf

Generally a nothingburger. There are a couple of applications. Planning documents are available online.

[Monctoncore]

It’s felt like the usually January quiet has been dragging into February, March and now April

[Riberview]

Wasn't sure where to post this but the Memramcook Institute has been sold with plans for housing, boutique hotel

Well that's bad news for that building :shrug:

[new kid in town]

Do we have the pop'n growth per city for NB yet? I know we had the provincial, but no further breakdown yet.

[MonctonRad]

Those stats come out in June, I believe

[new kid in town]

:previous: Thanks!

[adamuptownsj]

Interesting paywalled TJ reporting:

"Mayor Dawn Arnold announced that Kimberly Christie-Gallant has been appointed as a new member of the Codiac Regional Policing Authority. Christie-Gallant is a retired teacher who, in 2022, went to city council with a petition called “Make Moncton Safe Again”. Her petition sparked a series of public meetings where residents vented their frustrations about property crimes, drug use and vagrancy. Those meetings formed the basis for an action plan by the city and RCMP."

Seems like the right person for the job.

[sailor734]

IDK. It’s now two years later. Is Moncton safe again?

[MonctonRad]

IDK. It’s now two years later. Is Moncton safe again?

:haha:

[jonny golden]

IDK. It’s now two years later. Is Moncton safe again?

Good question. I know the vibrancy that once was downtown Moncton is mostly gone. Hopefully with all the new residential construction happening, downtown will once again be a lively area.

[Monctoncore]

I was downtown Saturday at the market and did a walk around Main Street and along the river front and then was back downtown around 7 for dinner. It really wasn’t bad, it was very busy at the market, the river was busy, lots of people walking, biking and even roller blading between the courthouse and Chateau. When I returned in the evening, I saw one homeless person, same one I saw outside the market. It didn’t feel unsafe, just quiet. I think that the Ashford development, icon and the Bernard’s square once all built will make a huge difference downtown.

[adamuptownsj]

IDK. It’s now two years later. Is Moncton safe again?

She was just appointed- previously she had just been a rightfully-annoyed citizen.

[sailor734]

Fair point……..although when it comes to homelessness, drugs and the connected petty crime I’m not sure there actually is an answer.

Or, if there is it is too unpalatable given today’s values.

[jonny golden]

I was downtown Saturday at the market and did a walk around Main Street and along the river front and then was back downtown around 7 for dinner. It really wasn’t bad, it was very busy at the market, the river was busy, lots of people walking, biking and even roller blading between the courthouse and Chateau. When I returned in the evening, I saw one homeless person, same one I saw outside the market. It didn’t feel unsafe, just quiet. I think that the Ashford development, icon and the Bernard’s square once all built will make a huge difference downtown.

Good to hear. I haven't walked downtown for quite a while. I've driven along Main Street frequently, and it just doesn't seem to have the same vibe as it did pre covid. I think the Ashford development behind Assomption Place will be a key to getting people downtown, replacing the people who have gone to work at home.

Another thing that would help, is if the empty downtown office space could be converted to residential. But you'd think that would have already happened if it were feasible. There's a lot of vacant space that's been listed for ages.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

When Ashford/Downing is complete, and when St . Bernard Place is complete, there will be quite a lively node in the east end of the downtown core, extending from FiveFive Queen, past city hall, and across Main to the Blue Cross Centre and the Ashford/Downing complex down as far as Riverfront Park.

There will be a second lively node in the west end of the downtown core where the "entertainment district" is slowly developing, centred on the Avenir Centre, and the nearby hotels and restaurants.

The problem will be in connecting the two districts together. The very centre of the core feels a little hollowed out. There should be a plan to make the core a single integrated whole...........

[lirette]

Good to hear. I haven't walked downtown for quite a while. I've driven along Main Street frequently, and it just doesn't seem to have the same vibe as it did pre covid. I think the Ashford development behind Assomption Place will be a key to getting people downtown, replacing the people who have gone to work at home.

Another thing that would help, is if the empty downtown office space could be converted to residential. But you'd think that would have already happened if it were feasible. There's a lot of vacant space that's been listed for ages.

I used to work downtown and am also frequently downtown for events at Avenir or dining out. In my over 20 years of doing that experience is that downtown is relatively quiet from November to April and that has nothing to do with the homeless population or personal safety issues. It's just the cyclical nature of things and a somewhat cultural thing with Monctonians. There is exceptions to this with events like the Santa clause parade, New Year's Eve, busier Wildcats games or concert nights.

The Ian Fowler oval was helpful for this where it created a public gathering area for activity, but that area is cut off from Eastern area of downtown so you could just as easily have no idea that's going on.

Many of the restaurants downtown in winter it's actually hard to tell they are busy. Some of the popular spots are on side streets (pumphouse, furnace room, st James gate) and others like Old Triangle & happy brewing are somewhat hard to even see in the windows. A perfect example of this is when Avenir hosted the top prospects game. I went downtown expecting to grab a beer before the game and was amazed that despite the streets not looking busy, I could not get in to any of the 5-6 restaurants and pubs I tried to go to as they were all full.

When May comes and the weather is good it's as of suddenly the entire city wakes up, patios being out suddenly gives a feeling of busy restaurants and busy streets. There are events going on monthly and of course we have actual tourists in the city.

I don't believe this pattern will change much in the short term but it should improve in 5 years with a much larger population living downtown.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

:previous:

When Ashford/Downing is complete, and when St . Bernard Place is complete, there will be quite a lively node in the east end of the downtown core, extending from FiveFive Queen, past city hall, and across Main to the Blue Cross Centre and the Ashford/Downing complex down as far as Riverfront Park.

There will be a second lively node in the west end of the downtown core where the "entertainment district" is slowly developing, centred on the Avenir Centre, and the nearby hotels and restaurants.

The problem will be in connecting the two districts together. The very centre of the core feels a little hollowed out. There should be a plan to make the core a single integrated whole...........


I don't think many realize how massive this project is, it will stretch all the way to the 3 Sisters when it's 100% completed.

I used this tool to calculate the square footage/aces: https://www.mapdevelopers.com/area_finder.php

The total area for the project is close to 15 acres (14.84) which doesn't include the 2 brothers, 3 sisters + rumored projects between the 3 sisters and maritime windows. 15 acres is really underselling it when you factor all the neighboring projects.

In comparison Fundy Quay total area is closer to 6 acres (5.78). The scale of this project in total is nearly THREE times the size of the Fundy Quay.

[new kid in town]

:previous:

That's very promising and exciting when you put it that way. It's so hard to visualize all of it without some metrics to go by. :cheers:

[MonctonGoldenTri]

:previous:

That's very promising and exciting when you put it that way. It's so hard to visualize all of it without some metrics to go by. :cheers:

indeed, and that's not to take anything away from Fundy Quay, but to help people visualize how massive this development is.

To put things in another perspective how are smaller project compares:
Three sisters = 3.5 acres
Two Brothers = 3.35 acres

Those two projects combined are 6.85 acres, a just under 20% larger in scale compared to Fundy Quay.

[adamuptownsj]

The total area for the project is close to 15 acres (14.84) which doesn't include the 2 brothers, 3 sisters + rumored projects between the 3 sisters and maritime windows. 15 acres is really underselling it when you factor all the neighboring projects.


Keenly interested in these rumours.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Keenly interested in these rumours.

From what I read here Lafford properties purchased the property where the drive/through Tim Horton's used to be. I think MonctonRad speculated another 15s building.

[josh_cat_eyes]

From what I read here Lafford properties purchased the property where the drive/through Tim Horton's used to be. I think MonctonRad speculated another 15s building.

Can someone verify if that is indeed who purchased this property?

[MonctonRad]

Can someone verify if that is indeed who purchased this property?

I believe it has been confirmed. Nearly 100% certain.

What Lafford has in mind is another question, but I would not be surprised to see something of similar stature to the Three Sisters or the "two brothers", meaning, in the 15-20 storey range.

[riverviewer]

Can someone verify if that is indeed who purchased this property?

Lafford is using it to stage gravel

[MonctonRad]

Moncton building permits reach $56M in first quarter
City says building permits for first quarter of 2024 are double that of last year
Author of the article:Brunswick News
Published Apr 26, 2024 • 1 minute read
https://tj.news/city-hall/moncton-building-permits-reach-56m-in-first-quarter (paywall)

The first quarter is usually the quietest time of the year for building permits, so this may auger well for the remainder of the year.

The most interesting project named in the article was for a "$14.7-million warehouse construction by Greystone Energy Systems on Desbrisay Avenue." They are busy prepping a large lot in the MID West Industrial Park right now, so this must be what it is for.

[new kid in town]

:previous:

Glad to hear especially since it felt so quiet relative to all the Saint John updates (i.e., Fundy Quay and NB musée)

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Glad to hear especially since it felt so quiet relative to all the Saint John updates (i.e., Fundy Quay and NB musée)

The Moncton equivalent to these two particular projects are Ashford/Downing and the new ASEC. They are finally digging at the ASEC, but, Ashford/Downing remains deadly quiet.........

[Monctoncore]

The Moncton equivalent to these two particular projects are Ashford/Downing and the new ASEC. They are finally digging at the ASEC, but, Ashford/Downing remains deadly quiet.........

Right? It just seems to weird that they have been planning this for must be 3 years now and seems like they just stay dead silent on everything.

[jonny golden]

Right? It just seems to weird that they have been planning this for must be 3 years now and seems like they just stay dead silent on everything.

I believe the issue with the Ashford project(s) is the underground services. If I'm not mistaken, they're going to start the work on the Assomption land this year. It's given Ashford a lot of time to prepare, so let's hope that they start phase one next year.

Meanwhile they keep busy constructing new apartment buildings.

Here's the CBC story from last year: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-infrastructure-downtown-funding-1.6756202#:~:text=Work%20will%20start%20this%20summer%20on%20Assomption%20and%20the%20lower,the%20underground%20infrastructure%20is%20installed.

[Monctoncore]

I believe the issue with the Ashford project(s) is the underground services. If I'm not mistaken, they're going to start the work on the Assomption land this year. It's given Ashford a lot of time to prepare, so let's hope that they start phase one next year.

Meanwhile they keep busy constructing new apartment buildings.

Here's the CBC story from last year: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-infrastructure-downtown-funding-1.6756202#:~:text=Work%20will%20start%20this%20summer%20on%20Assomption%20and%20the%20lower,the%20underground%20infrastructure%20is%20installed.


Oh that’s understandable. It more the lack of designs etc. being shared.

[sailor734]

Anytime you are dependent on multiple levels of government doing something before a project can take place things move with glacial slowness.

Just look at the history of Fundy Quay in Saint John......"in the works"and talked about by governments for over a decade.

Even the redesign of Loyalist Plaza and the Market Square boardwalk. What private enterprise could have done in a season the city will have taken 2 full years and part of a third to accomplish.

Until you have dealt with them it's hard to fathom just how slow governments can move

[jonny golden]

Oh that’s understandable. It more the lack of designs etc. being shared.

That CBC story said that Ashford might release information this spring -2024.

Quote: "Ashford has not yet announced its plans for the area, though Dixon told reporters its first phase will include a mixed-use building near Downing Street. He said a formal announcement could take place this spring."

Again, I'm really hoping for an inspiring project - a real game changer.