The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[MonctonRad]

Moncton should be ~ 180,000 in the CMA by later this year

St. John's (NL) is closer to 230,000.

It will still be some time before we overtake them in terms of population. I think we will overtake them, because their population growth is constrained by being on the far end of the most isolated province in the Dominion, but, I think it will be a minimum of 30 years before it happens.

My goal is for us to be a top 25 CMA in the country. This is more rapidly attainable. I believe we are currently #27.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Moncton should be ~ 180,000 in the CMA by later this year

St. John's (NL) is closer to 230,000.

It will still be some time before we overtake them in terms of population. I think we will overtake them, because their population growth is constrained by being on the far end of the most isolated province in the Dominion, but, I think it will be a minimum of 30 years before it happens.

My goal is for us to be a top 25 CMA in the country. This is more rapidly attainable. I believe we are currently #27.

I didn't realize St John's was 230,000. It's hard to project Moncton's growth and I don't expect every year to be like the last 2. Assuming we only grow at 50% of our current rate, 4000-4500 annually, it should be closer to 20-25 years. In 25 years Moncton should be right at the 300,000 mark.

[Mattyyy]

Moncton should be ~ 180,000 in the CMA by later this year

St. John's (NL) is closer to 230,000.

It will still be some time before we overtake them in terms of population. I think we will overtake them, because their population growth is constrained by being on the far end of the most isolated province in the Dominion, but, I think it will be a minimum of 30 years before it happens.

My goal is for us to be a top 25 CMA in the country. This is more rapidly attainable. I believe we are currently #27.

The CMA population was 171,608 as of July 1st, 2022. There is a fair chance Moncton crossed the 180,000 mark as of July 1st, 2023 but I guess that is fully dependent on another huge year. I guess we should soon find out.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

We are currently the 27th largest CMA in the country. If Guelph's and Greater Sudbury's growth rate stays about the same, and so does ours, we should overtake them, when the CMA estimations get released in February.

[new kid in town]

Moncton is speeding up housing approvals and cutting some public hearings? Sounds exciting :order:

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Moncton is speeding up housing approvals and cutting some public hearings? Sounds exciting :order:

Does this mean no more tomato blockades?:cheers::tup:

[new kid in town]

Does this mean no more tomato blockades?:cheers::tup:

Retail Talk said CBC is reporting it, but I'm yet to find the article. In any case, hopefully no more tomato grievances :tomato:

Of course the comments in that thread are rife with salt and bitterness already :order:

[Taeolas]

Does this mean no more tomato blockades?:cheers::tup:

Probably not, but I suspect any NIMBY folk will have to be a lot more reactive if they want to fight the big projects.

I hope Moncton is learning a lesson from the Tomato Lady objections, in light of the projects that have come through since then in general. (not to mention the reputation hit they've taken because of it)

[MonctonPerson]

Retail Talk said CBC is reporting it, but I'm yet to find the article. In any case, hopefully no more tomato grievances :tomato:

Of course the comments in that thread are rife with salt and bitterness already :order:

I'm not sure why Retail Talk thought a story from November was new: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-housing-bylaw-conditional-approvals-1.7034674

The bylaw amendment was part of the marathon January meeting and council delayed a final decision to February.

[new kid in town]

I'm not sure why Retail Talk thought a story from November was new: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-housing-bylaw-conditional-approvals-1.7034674

The bylaw amendment was part of the marathon January meeting and council delayed a final decision to February.

Thanks for finding it. I've read this before. I thought they meant a new development came out. :tomato:

[MonctonRad]

Interesting drone video tour of Moncton captured by some tourists early last fall.

iUXhRekfCeQ

The video is fairly contemporary, and clearly shows the impact of the (two) sisters on the skyline already (just imagine if they came back in five years time).

They unfortunately cut their edits really short, and spend way too much time at the beginning on central Mountain Road (and around churches), but the video gets better towards the end.

[new kid in town]

One thing I also wish Moncton has (or will have in the near future) is some tourism presence or merch. Halifax and Charlottetown will have nice souvenirs and trinkets stamped with their city, while Moncton has none (that I know of). Hopefully once our downtown becomes more vibrant, and Moncton grows even more, we can have a bit of an identity that we can stamp on post cards or fridge magnets. This is very minor of course. I just can't help but notice the stark difference when I visit PEI and NS (and yes I understand the other 2 are also provincial capitals).

[David_99]

:previous:

We don't have a waterfront where tourists can congregate. Our riverfront is basically a walking trail. Those souvenir shops exist at the Magnetic Hill Wharf Village, far away from downtown.

[new kid in town]

:previous:

We don't have a waterfront where tourists can congregate. Our riverfront is basically a walking trail. Those souvenir shops exist at the Magnetic Hill Wharf Village, far away from downtown.

I have been to the Magnetic Hill Wharf, but didn't at least one of them (the one on the left side if you're coming from the parking lot) close permanently as of last summer? They were told their lease is up with no option to renew. They also had no other spot to relocate when I talked to the owners/staff.

Most of the stuff are also NB as a whole or the Fundy Trail/Hopewell Rocks. Not necessarily specific to Moncton.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

I have been to the Magnetic Hill Wharf, but didn't at least one of them (the one on the left side if you're coming from the parking lot) close permanently as of last summer? They were told their lease is up with no option to renew. They also had no other spot to relocate when I talked to the owners/staff.

Most of the stuff are also NB as a whole or the Fundy Trail/Hopewell Rocks. Not necessarily specific to Moncton.

Moncton definitely does a poor job at marketing, I'm a little disappointed Moncton doesn't FLEX it's proximity to the Northumberland straight, the warmest beaches in the Country. A CMA that's a 12 minute drive away from 100's of KM's of the warmest beaches in the county. :cheers:

Sure SJ has a "view" of the ocean but what's the point when you can't even enjoy it? Thats like have a Ferrari in the driveway but you can't drive it! At least here in Moncton we have access to the nicest and warmest beaches in the country.

[Lobster chucker]

There won’t be an IKEA in Moncton this century. Not unless Moncton has a growth spurt like a Chinese city in the 90’s. Halifax is even lucky to have one. Think of it this way, New England used to have 4 and they closed one so now they have just 3. If they only have 3, there is zero chance the maritimes ever gets 2.

Is there not a small concept store? I was under the impression IKEA has 50K size stores for off markets that act as delivery hubs and carry top 100 items. Is there one in Quebec City?

[Philbilly]

Is there not a small concept store? I was under the impression IKEA has 50K size stores for off markets that act as delivery hubs and carry top 100 items. Is there one in Quebec City?

I’m been to the ikea in Quebec… it a full store .

[josh_cat_eyes]

Is there not a small concept store? I was under the impression IKEA has 50K size stores for off markets that act as delivery hubs and carry top 100 items. Is there one in Quebec City?

They had developed that format but then got rid of it shortly afterwords, I think the Quebec store was supposed to be like that and then when they got rid of it they changed the Quebec City store to a full store.

[Riberview]

Moncton definitely does a poor job at marketing, I'm a little disappointed Moncton doesn't FLEX it's proximity to the Northumberland straight, the warmest beaches in the Country. A CMA that's a 12 minute drive away from 100's of KM's of the warmest beaches in the county. :cheers:

Sure SJ has a "view" of the ocean but what's the point when you can't even enjoy it? Thats like have a Ferrari in the driveway but you can't drive it! At least here in Moncton we have access to the nicest and warmest beaches in the country.

I do see the benefit of having an ocean view, even if you can't touch the water. For some people it's enough to look out their window or off their porch and think.. "wow." I recall once having a beautiful view of Mahone Bay, NS. Incredible to think of the expanse of ocean beyond the islands.

I agree with your point about the beaches. I am amazed that this isn't marketed like crazy. Short drive from Moncton to all kinds of beaches. Even shorter drive if you set up home in the Cap-Acadie/ or Bouctouche areas.. and then it's just a short drive to town.

I think with the past few years influx of Ontarians and the like, you'll start to see a steady of flow of their friends and relatives out this way. Word is bound to get out.

At least the summers are nice.

[mylesmalley]

I agree with your point about the beaches. I am amazed that this isn't marketed like crazy. Short drive from Moncton to all kinds of beaches. Even shorter drive if you set up home in the Cap-Acadie/ or Bouctouche areas.. and then it's just a short drive to town.


I don't think the situation is helped by the water quality issues and swim advisories.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

I don't think the situation is helped by the water quality issues and swim advisories.


That's only an issue for Parlee Beach, I've never heard of water quality issues on any other beach.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

I do see the benefit of having an ocean view, even if you can't touch the water. For some people it's enough to look out their window or off their porch and think.. "wow." I recall once having a beautiful view of Mahone Bay, NS. Incredible to think of the expanse of ocean beyond the islands.

I agree with your point about the beaches. I am amazed that this isn't marketed like crazy. Short drive from Moncton to all kinds of beaches. Even shorter drive if you set up home in the Cap-Acadie/ or Bouctouche areas.. and then it's just a short drive to town.

I think with the past few years influx of Ontarians and the like, you'll start to see a steady of flow of their friends and relatives out this way. Word is bound to get out.

At least the summers are nice.

While their view is nice it is nothing special IMO, what we have access to IS special.

We are a quick 12 minute drive to the warmest waters in the country, every other Canadian needs to pay a small fortune
to experience this, a trip down south. Its something we take for granted.

If SJ had access to this rest assured it would be advertised and plastered on every sign/commercial.

[new kid in town]

When Shediac joins the Moncton CMA and we can technically claim you can visit the mountain and the beach in under 30 minutes :P

[MonctonRad]

When Shediac joins the Moncton CMA and we can technically claim you can visit the mountain and the beach in under 30 minutes :P

Still not quite the same as metro Vancouver though. :)

[new kid in town]

Still not quite the same as metro Vancouver though. :)

True but don't ruin my delusion :runaway:

[sailor734]

Still not quite the same as metro Vancouver though. :)

Right, that's sailing, golf and skiing all in the same day as I recall. :D

[sailor734]

While their view is nice it is nothing special IMO, what we have access to IS special.

We are a quick 12 minute drive to the warmest waters in the country, every other Canadian needs to pay a small fortune
to experience this, a trip down south. Its something we take for granted.

If SJ had access to this rest assured it would be advertised and plastered on every sign/commercial.

Don't forget, a quick drive from uptown SJ (8 minutes over the hill to Millidgeville or 15 to the KV) and you can be on the St John or Kennebecasis Rivers (fresh water where summertime water temps are in the low 20's.....perfect on a warm day)

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Don't forget, a quick drive from uptown SJ (8 minutes over the hill to Millidgeville or 15 to the KV) and you can be on the St John or Kennebecasis Rivers (fresh water where summertime water temps are in the low 20's.....perfect on a warm day)

Not comparable, the water up here gets up to 25c. 20c is pretty damn chili, a 5c difference is a drastic difference. I find 23-25c to be the minimum to enjoy waters IMO, I can tolerate 22 but it's not really enjoyable.

You can find 20c water pretty much anywheres in the country, on the other hand waters that can reach 25c is unique.

[sailor734]

Not comparable, the water up here gets up to 25c. 20c is pretty damn chili, a 5c difference is a drastic difference. I find 23-25c to be the minimum to enjoy waters IMO, I can tolerate 22 but it's not really enjoyable.

You can find 20c water pretty much anywheres in the country, on the other hand waters that can reach 25c is unique.

To each his own but..........I've been sailing and boating on the St John River for 40 years.....water temps are just right on a warm summer's day......and it's fresh water so no itchy salt drying on you.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

To each his own but..........I've been sailing and boating on the St John River for 40 years.....water temps are just right on a warm summer's day......and it's fresh water so no itchy salt drying on you.


Your allowed to have your preference, nothing wrong with that. But you'd be part of a small minority globally. There's a reason why saltwater beaches are #1 tourist attractions worldwide.

[Helladog]

You're not even alive until you've had the 5°C Bay of Fundy waters wash over you. :haha:

[sailor734]

You're not even alive until you've had the 5°C Bay of Fundy waters wash over you. :haha:

Now that's a bit of an exaggeration. It gets all the way up to a balmy 12° in the bay in summer! (Although it doesn't feel particularly balmy when you take a wave in the face on a rough day. :D)

In all seriousness though, there is a reason they call the St John River "The Rhine of North America" Over the years countless visiting yachtsmen from the US have been amazed at what we have. They love the warm, fresh water, unspoiled landscape and lack of fog. It's a real hidden gem. Only the challenges of the 120 mile passage from Bar Harbour to Saint John (a rugged, rocky coast, fog, cold and strong currents keep us from getting overcrowded.

[new kid in town]

CBC just posted an aerial video of the tidal bore. Has some good views of the skyline especially with the first 2 sisters.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2308756035756

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/a-drone-s-eye-view-of-a-tidal-bore-on-moncton-s-petitcodiac-river/vi-BB1iersM?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=LCTS&cvid=c0d3c37e1f654191b271014f0ff70e5b&ei=11

[MonctonRad]

PAC agenda for February 28th.

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/PAC/Feb_28_2024/1_Agenda_Ordre_du_jour_Feb_28_fev.pdf

Very ho hum.

[josh_cat_eyes]

I’ll repost this here after I previously posted it on the retail talk & share facebook group just to get a conversation going. I think we do a lot of arm chair urban planning, but it would certainly be nice to get more involved and make a quantifiable difference in the community.

I recently watched a video criticizing the “urbanist YouTube” space for not helping people realize how to get involved in city planning. I thought it might be a good idea to see what kind of impact we, who are interested in making Moncton a better place, can make if we join together. I don’t know what this would look like, but I think there is lots of us that have an interest in improving our city. I find this page, and to an extent SkyScraperPage fourm, almost like a development news site. Jeff Boucher does a good job of often posting hypothetical questions of what people would like to see happen, for the sake of engagement, but I’d like to see those grassroots turn into actual civic engagement. Let me know your thoughts on ways we can grow this community in the Moncton or New Brunswick areas.

[new kid in town]

I remember posting here several months back when Moncton city was doing surveys on how to move forward with downtown density revitalization, and nobody else commented about it. I do agree it would be nice if we can somehow make actual visible support for projects we like to see, even at least as a counterbalance to unwarranted NIMBYism.

[MonctonRad]

I recently watched a video criticizing the “urbanist YouTube” space for not helping people realize how to get involved in city planning. I thought it might be a good idea to see what kind of impact we, who are interested in making Moncton a better place, can make if we join together. I don’t know what this would look like, but I think there is lots of us that have an interest in improving our city. I find this page, and to an extent SkyScraperPage fourm, almost like a development news site. Jeff Boucher does a good job of often posting hypothetical questions of what people would like to see happen, for the sake of engagement, but I’d like to see those grassroots turn into actual civic engagement. Let me know your thoughts on ways we can grow this community in the Moncton or New Brunswick areas.

I read your Facebook post, and Jeff Boucher's response. I agree with him that a lot of municipal politicians, MLAs, media people and other movers and shakers read and pay attention to both his site and SSP in order to keep an eye on public opinion. Sometimes we even have some good ideas that can influence public policy. To that end, I encourage people who want their opinions heard to post commentary here. You never know what sort of effect this might have on public policy.

Otherwise, direct civic engagement is very important. There actually are SSP members who are on important municipal committees. They have made the decision to become actively involved. There are ongoing opportunities for members of the public at large to let city hall know of their interest, and potentially be appointed to these advisory committees. If there is a topic you are passionate about (like active transportation), then this is your opportunity to make a difference.

Finally, you can choose to run for city council. I know of no SSP members in Moncton who are on city council, but, there are at least two city councillors in HRM who were formerly active on SSP. One of them (Waye Mason) is likely to run for mayor of HRM this year.

There are many ways to make a difference - passionate discussion on public forums such as this, committee membership or even active politics. It doesn't matter how involved you want to become, but, if you want your opinion heard, there are many outlets available.

SSP is more influential than a lot of people know.

[MonctonRad]

I remember posting here several months back when Moncton city was doing surveys on how to move forward with downtown density revitalization, and nobody else commented about it. I do agree it would be nice if we can somehow make actual visible support for projects we like to see, even at least as a counterbalance to unwarranted NIMBYism.

In the spirit of my previous post, I will give you my vision of what downtown Moncton should become:

1) - The downtown should be centred south of Gordon & Queen Street, with a focus on Main Street and Assumption Blvd.

2) - The downtown should be bookended by two defining districts. An entertainment/events district to the west, and an arts and cultural district to the east, centred around Downing Street.

3) - Entertainment/Events District. This is already developing nicely thanks to the prescient vision of locating the Avenir Centre in the city core. There are already three hotels in the neighbourhood (Crowne Plaza, Hilton Garden Inn, Hyatt Pace) and a smattering of new high quality restaurants (Carrabbas, Monk 10, and the soon to come Baton Rouge). The new Bunker golf simulator and bar adds a unique entertainment option to the neighbourhood. Between The Bunker and Baton Rouge, there will be a large contiguous area of outdoor patio and dining space immediately across from the Hyatt Place, I think this will be quite lively on long sultry summer evenings.

There is more to be done however. In particular, something needs to be done with 1222 Main and the adjacent vacant lot on the west side of the Avenir Centre. As I previously envisioned, I think there is a tremendous opportunity coming with NB hosting the Canada Summer Games in 2029. Moncton is well placed already for this event with many sports facilities already available. The Achilles heel in any Moncton proposal to be the host city is our lack of an appropriate 50 metre pool and diving facility. I have done the measurements, and, such a facility could fit in the space between the Avenir Centre and 1222 Main.

By colocating the aquatic facility next to arguably the nicest arena in the region, we would have the best concentration of athletic facilities in Atlantic Canada. It would further an events focus for the downtown west end. 1222 Main could be renovated in the meantime as well for more hotel space. A hotel connected to the aquatic facility would be a great inducement for major sports organizations to consider Moncton as a host city. I also think there is room on Main Street between the Avenir Centre and the proposed aquatics facility for a large sports bar such as Le Cage aux Sports.

4) - Arts and Culture District. The rudiments of such a district have already been discussed by city planning and presented to city council. We just need to flesh out the details and focus the vision. This district would be centred on Downing Street.

Downing Street is already envisaged as a pedestrian plaza with limited vehicular access. The renderings are very promising. The city market will relocate to Downing. There are discussions ongoing as to the need for a downtown convention centre, and how the convention centre might incorporate the city market. I think great care must be taken as to how any such colocation occurs. Personally, I think the two spaces should be almost entirely separate, but, perhaps allowing for some overflow use if necessary. I think there should be two components to the market. I think there should be a dedicated space for permanent vendors (like the Saint John city market), and a flex space where weekend vendors can set up. The permanent vendors should have the greatest visibility (window frontage for example). The flex space could be shared with an adjacent convention centre.

There has also been talk about moving the city library out of Blue Cross into a new more modern space. I think this a good idea, especially if it incorporates many of the ideas used in the new downtown library in Halifax, such as a lecture auditorium, meeting rooms, computer labs, a cafe or two, and large comfortable and airy reading rooms.

Finally, Moncton needs a major museum. Saint John has the New Brunswick Museum. Fredericton has the Beaverbrook Art Gallery. Moncton needs something similar. I know some people have speculated in the past of a New Brunswick Museum of Modern Art. I support this concept, and, this could be the final addition needed for our Arts & Culture District - a district that would include the city library, city market, a convention centre and a museum of modern art.

5) - High rise development should be primarily limited to south of Main Street. This does not mean that high rise developemtn elsewhere is completely excluded, and, in particular, I think there are several options for high rises around Botsford Street and along east Main Street. North of Main however should primarily be reserved for mid rise mixed use buildings with streetfront retail/commercial.

6) - If the residential population of downtown Moncton is to expand exponentially, then it becomes obvious that we need to think about additional schools in the area. The only downtown school is Edith Cavell, and, this will be completely inadequate if suddenly there are thousands more people living in the core. There are many new schools being built in the city, but, they are all kilometres away in the distant reaches of the suburbs. This is not an acceptable solution for a burgeoning downtown population.

I firmly believe that the old Moncton High School should be recommissioned as a public high school. Locating the replacement school out by the city limits was a tremendous mistake, but, it is not too late to redress the situation. A new primary/middle school will also be necessary. I would keep Edith Cavell for the downtown west end, and build a new school in the east end. I think there are options for land assembly around Rabbi Lippa Medjuck Street. I think this should be explored. A downtown francophone primary/middle school might also be necessary, but I am less certain about this. I will leave this to others to comment about.

7) - I firmly believe that Moncton deserves a campus of UNB in the city. There is a constituency of over 100,000 anglophones in the metro area that are not being served by the provincial university. Crandall does not have adequate programs. Mount Allison is just a little too far away on treacherous winter roads. UdeM is entirely francophone and does not meet the needs of anglophone Monctonians. A junior campus of UNB is required, and, if located downtown, would give added vibrancy to the core as the students would frequent nearby coffee shops and cafes. There is enough developable land south of Main Street to locate a small campus.

I hope this little treatise will spark some conversation.

[new kid in town]

7) - I firmly believe that Moncton deserves a campus of UNB in the city. There is a constituency of over 100,000 anglophones in the metro area that are not being served by the provincial university. Crandall does not have adequate programs. Mount Allison is just a little too far away on treacherous winter roads. UdeM is entirely francophone and does not meet the needs of anglophone Monctonians. A junior campus of UNB is required, and, if located downtown, would give added vibrancy to the core as the students would frequent nearby coffee shops and cafes. There is enough developable land south of Main Street to locate a small campus.

I hope this little treatise will spark some conversation.

:goodpost:

I most definitely agree with a major museum, and the pool you have mentioned to create a sporting complex around the Avenir.

As many others have pointed out, we need to get rid of the huge swaths of surface parking to allow the construction of more buildings. However, I still think at least one of the surface parking areas have to be converted into a multi-level paid parking structure (or even part of a mixed-use building) to accommodate people coming from outside our CMA. As more events, unique retailers, and other attraction accumulate in Moncton, we should expect some visitors to drive in and require parking.

I've also mentioned elsewhere in the fora before that I think we need more food retail in the core downtown. Hopefully the street level spaces of the slated towers help solve that problem. It would be nice to get a blend of high-end, local, and fast food or coffee chains to attract people of different social strata.

The housing and homelessness problem would need to be addressed of course to help make this successful. Businesses downtown are either locked, moving away, or closing early (CBC News, https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2300446787883).

I agree with a stronger UNB presence in the city. It seems rather amiss that the province's largest and fastest growing CMA doesn't have it save for the faculty of nursing downtown. On a very very personal note, I would want to see (at the very least) the UNB Nursing expand its facilities and presence as I aspire to take a nurse practitioner program in the near future without having to worry about going to Saint John or Fredericton. As our city continues to outpace the rest of the province, the need for an anglo higher education outside of the NBCC is only going to be more and more evident. I know NPs can't replace MDs, but at least until we can attract more family doctors, it may be prudent to expand NP programs in the city to support primary care in the community. It sounds really idealistic, but I really think if we can strengthen community and public health, we will help reduce the strain to our hospitals (which is another thing that would have to be supported as our city grows).

Anyway that's my :2cents:, and it's quite obviously very health-centric as that is where I primarily work. :runaway:

[josh_cat_eyes]

I remember posting here several months back when Moncton city was doing surveys on how to move forward with downtown density revitalization, and nobody else commented about it. I do agree it would be nice if we can somehow make actual visible support for projects we like to see, even at least as a counterbalance to unwarranted NIMBYism.

I did actually see your post and filled out a survey. I filled out one for the vision lands too. This is the kind of stuff I’m talking about. It seems like it falls on deaf ears even when it doesn’t. This forum is fantastic for starting discussions and fleshing out ideas, and I’m aware that influential people read it, however I’d like to have a little more direct influence than “an MLA might read your post”. When it comes to politics, I actually live outside of Riverview so I can’t run for council in Riverview or Moncton, and Fundy Albert is a pretty massive area to cover when running for Mayor or Council. I have often aspired to run for some form of government though.

My idea would be to have some sort of group that can speak on behalf of urban minded people, and present information and suggestions to people in power (PAC, Mayor & Council, MLAs & MPs) that accurately reflects the opinions of urban minded Monctonians. As far as I’m aware, no such group currently exists.

[MonctonRad]

As many others have pointed out, we need to get rid of the huge swaths of surface parking to allow the construction of more buildings. However, I still think at least one of the surface parking areas have to be converted into a multi-level paid parking structure (or even part of a mixed-use building) to accommodate people coming from outside our CMA. As more events, unique retailers, and other attraction accumulate in Moncton, we should expect some visitors to drive in and require parking.

Yes, I was going to mention something in my post about a major enclosed parking structure, but, it slipped my mind. The need for a parking garage to replace the eliminated surface parking is self evident.

I've also mentioned elsewhere in the fora before that I think we need more food retail in the core downtown. Hopefully the street level spaces of the slated towers help solve that problem. It would be nice to get a blend of high-end, local, and fast food or coffee chains to attract people of different social strata.

Agreed. I fully expect to see an urban format grocery option (or two) to appear in the podium of one or more of the new downtown developments that will be built in the next 8-10 years.

The housing and homelessness problem would need to be addressed of course to help make this successful. Businesses downtown are either locked, moving away, or closing early (CBC News, https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2300446787883).

Agree 1000%

I agree with a stronger UNB presence in the city. It seems rather amiss that the province's largest and fastest growing CMA doesn't have it save for the faculty of nursing downtown. On a very very personal note, I would want to see (at the very least) the UNB Nursing expand its facilities and presence as I aspire to take a nurse practitioner program in the near future without having to worry about going to Saint John or Fredericton. As our city continues to outpace the rest of the province, the need for an anglo higher education outside of the NBCC is only going to be more and more evident. I know NPs can't replace MDs, but at least until we can attract more family doctors, it may be prudent to expand NP programs in the city to support primary care in the community. It sounds really idealistic, but I really think if we can strengthen community and public health, we will help reduce the strain to our hospitals (which is another thing that would have to be supported as our city grows).

The state of nursing training (at least on the anglophone side) has deteriorated considerably in Moncton over the last 20 years. The Moncton Hospital used to have a full fledged independent nursing school. When the training was converted from RN to BN and taken over by UNB, the school in Moncton was maintained for a while, but probably about five years ago or so, the Moncton program was converted to a program allowing LPNs to upgrade to a BN designation. This meant there was no longer a four year nursing training option at The Moncton Hospital. The hospital still has a School of Radiologic Technology, where years 3 & 4 are based in the hospital, (following completion of two years at UNBSJ. This seems secure for now, but, I am always worried that they may dispense with the full clinical program here, instead substituting it with something like "elective rotations." The state of UNB in Moncton is very precarious. Moncton deserves a full UNB campus, and a fully independent UNB Moncton nursing program. Unfortunately, UNB seems to have the illusion that Moncton doesn't really exist. :(

[sailor734]

delete

[sailor734]

Yes, I was going to mention something in my post about a major enclosed parking structure, but, it slipped my mind. The need for a parking garage to replace the eliminated surface parking is self evident.



Agreed. I fully expect to see an urban format grocery option (or two) to appear in the podium of one or more of the new downtown developments that will be built in the next 8-10 years.



Agree 1000%



The state of nursing training (at least on the anglophone side) has deteriorated considerably in Moncton over the last 20 years. The Moncton Hospital used to have a full fledged independent nursing school. When the training was converted from RN to BN and taken over by UNB, the school in Moncton was maintained for a while, but probably about five years ago or so, the Moncton program was converted to a program allowing LPNs to upgrade to a BN designation. This meant there was no longer a four year nursing training option at The Moncton Hospital. The hospital still has a School of Radiologic Technology, where years 3 & 4 are based in the hospital, (following completion of two years at UNBSJ. This seems secure for now, but, I am always worried that they may dispense with the full clinical program here, instead substituting it with something like "elective rotations." The state of UNB in Moncton is very precarious. Moncton deserves a full UNB campus, and a fully independent UNB Moncton nursing program. Unfortunately, UNB seems to have the illusion that Moncton doesn't really exist. :(

I think part of the issue is that, rightly or wrongly, much of the province views Moncton as largely French.....and thus they get UdeM while Fredericton gets UNB and Saint John gets tossed the bone that is UNBSJ.

Perhaps it's time to look at evolving NBCC into something more than a community college. Maybe something like BCIT that offers trades training, various technical diplomas AND grants degrees in subjects like computer science, health sciences and engineering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_Institute_of_Technology

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Both UNB and UdeM are provincial university systems. One anglophone and the other francophone.

UdeM has three campuses - Moncton, Shippagan and Edmundston.
UNB has two campuses - Fredericton and Saint John.

Regardless of outside perceptions, Moncton is 2/3rds anglophone. It is time for a third UNB campus.

[sailor734]

:previous:

Both UNB and UdeM are provincial university systems. One anglophone and the other francophone.

UdeM has three campuses - Moncton, Shippagan and Edmundston.
UNB has two campuses - Fredericton and Saint John.

Regardless of outside perceptions, Moncton is 2/3rds anglophone. It is time for a third UNB campus.

They are barely able to run two with any amount of quality ( UNB isn't exactly a highly ranked university even in just a Canadian context) I suspect trying to slice the pie three ways would only result in further dilution of quality in the education offered. I may be cynical but I'd hardly expect any NB government to dramatically increase overall funding to found and operate a full Moncton campus. As it is UNBSJ fights for everything they get and is still something of a red headed stepchild in Fredericton's eyes. I'm actually not sure the Liberal trial balloon of converting them into a polytechnic from a few years ago wasn't worth looking at.....even if it did prompt howls of outrage in Saint John.

[jonny golden]

So the UNB nursing curriculum in Moncton, it that a 4 year RN program? And how many yearly graduates are there?

[MonctonRad]

So the UNB nursing curriculum in Moncton, it that a 4 year RN program? And how many yearly graduates are there?

AFAIK, it is a two year post LPN program

[MonctonRad]

They are barely able to run two with any amount of quality ( UNB isn't exactly a highly ranked university even in just a Canadian context) I suspect trying to slice the pie three ways would only result in further dilution of quality in the education offered. I may be cynical but I'd hardly expect any NB government to dramatically increase overall funding to found and operate a full Moncton campus. As it is UNBSJ fights for everything they get and is still something of a red headed stepchild in Fredericton's eyes. I'm actually not sure the Liberal trial balloon of converting them into a polytechnic from a few years ago wasn't worth looking at.....even if it did prompt howls of outrage in Saint John.

Still, the CMA population of Moncton is currently about 180,000, and will be 200,000 within 7-8 years. By 2045 it will be at or near 250,000. As the size and power of the city continues to grow, it will be increasingly difficult for the provincial government to deny us a UNB campus.

[sailor734]

[/B]=MonctonRad;10147179]Still, the CMA population of Moncton is currently about 180,000, and will be 200,000 within 7-8 years. By 2045 it will be at or near 250,000. As the size and power of the city continues to grow, it will be increasingly difficult for the provincial government to deny us a UNB campus.

UNB is an independent entity. It is not a government owned organization.

Also, the size of a city is hardly a condition for having a university. Look at Mount Allison, Acadia and St FX. Students go to the university.Leaving home is an integral part of the university experience and of growing up. I’m in Saint John and I strongly encouraged my kids Not to go to UNBSJ.

[MonctonRad]

UNB is an independent entity. It is not a government owned organization.

Also, the size of a city is hardly a condition for having a university. Look at Mount Allison, Acadia and St FX. Students go to the university.Leaving home is an integral part of the university experience and of growing up. I’m in Saint John and I strongly encouraged my kids Not to go to UNBSJ.

And I grew up in Charlottetown. I did my first degree at UPEI, before doing med school and residency in Halifax.

While I certainly grew more as an individual living away from home, I saved considerable money doing my first degree at UPEI - to the point I was almost able to completely self fund my first two years at medical school. This made a huge difference to my finances.

If you have to leave home to go to university, this effectively doubles the cost of your education. This fact in some cases can make or break your decision whether or not to go to university at all.

I am not from a wealthy background. I saved money by living at home for my first degree, having a full ticket scholarship, and by having a really good summer job. These things matter. Nowadays, it is possible to be over $100,000 in debt after university (even more with medical or law school). Why should anglophone Moncton students be placed at such a disadvantage compared to their peers in Freddy or SJ?

[MonctonRad]

And, size does matter. Assuming a metro population of 180,000, and that 2/3rds of the population is anglophone, this makes an anglophone population in the metro area of 120,000.

Are there any other cities in Atlantic Canada of 120,000 without a university?

Are there any other cities in the region of 40,000 people without a university? Even Truro has the Dalhousie University agricultural campus.

Even if you look across the whole of Canada, pretty much the only CMA of Moncton’s size (or larger) without a university is Barrie ON.

MONCTON NEEDS, AND MONCTON DESERVES A UNB CAMPUS.

[sailor734]

And, size does matter. Assuming a metro population of 180,000, and that 2/3rds of the population is anglophone, this makes an anglophone population in the metro area of 120,000.

Are there any other cities in Atlantic Canada of 120,000 without a university?

Are there any other cities in the region of 40,000 people without a university? Even Truro has the Dalhousie University agricultural campus.

Even if you look across the whole of Canada, pretty much the only CMA of Moncton’s size (or larger) without a university is Barrie ON.

MONCTON NEEDS, AND MONCTON DESERVES A UNB CAMPUS.

Be careful what you wish for. UNBSJ was pretty half assed..... little better than a glorified high school in the early years. The powers that be at UNB Fredericton starved it for programs and resources for decades. Many programs or classes within programs either were not offered or required a move to Fredericton after 2nd year.....some still do. It's much better now but it's been a long and constant battle.

If Moncton is going to push for an Anglo institution you might actually be better off with a new and independent institution built from scratch.

[Sunnybrae]

And, size does matter. Assuming a metro population of 180,000, and that 2/3rds of the population is anglophone, this makes an anglophone population in the metro area of 120,000.

Are there any other cities in Atlantic Canada of 120,000 without a university?

Are there any other cities in the region of 40,000 people without a university? Even Truro has the Dalhousie University agricultural campus.

Even if you look across the whole of Canada, pretty much the only CMA of Moncton’s size (or larger) without a university is Barrie ON.

MONCTON NEEDS, AND MONCTON DESERVES A UNB CAMPUS.

If only there were some wealthy people or an organization that benefited from higher education in the region who would start an endowment....... if only.

[MonctonRad]

If Moncton is going to push for an Anglo institution you might actually be better off with a new and independent institution built from scratch.

I would be more than happy with a Mount Allison satellite urban campus. A junior college of MTA even, where you could do your first two years from home.

Fun fact - Cape Breton University started life as a junior college of St. FX, transitioning to UCCB before becoming CBU. There are precedents.

[new kid in town]

I did actually see your post and filled out a survey. I filled out one for the vision lands too.

That's awesome. I can't commit to being physically present for hearings and stuff due to the nature of my work (rotating schedules including night shifts), so surveys are my best concrete contribution to the city trying to understand the pulse of the public. I'm happy somebody else here is doing it.

The state of nursing training (at least on the anglophone side) has deteriorated considerably in Moncton over the last 20 years.

Unfortunately I have to agree. I had quite a few students ask me the wildest questions that should have been answered in their lab before they got to the bedside. They asked me how to check respiration rate. How did their instructors not cover this during fundamentals? Another major red flag is I saw their charting: some on pencil, a lot of scratch marks instead of strikethrough, empty spaces, improper signature. This is a legal document folks! :maddown:

The state of UNB in Moncton is very precarious. Moncton deserves a full UNB campus, and a fully independent UNB Moncton nursing program. Unfortunately, UNB seems to have the illusion that Moncton doesn't really exist. :(

Hopefully time and the continuous growth of the city is on our side.

So the UNB nursing curriculum in Moncton, it that a 4 year RN program? And how many yearly graduates are there?

AFAIK, it is a two year post LPN program

They also offer the accelerated BSc program. Apparently anybody with a bachelor in science degree (no matter how far removed from Health Sciences?) can join and just do 2 years to obtain the BSc Nursing, and allow them to use the BScN credentials. I already personally find the distinction of BSN distasteful (i.e., some experienced and expert nurses graduated outside of Canada, or those who have been RNs before the creation of the BScN can't ever use those credentials) but logical. However, having only 2 years of actual nursing studies and being allowed to use that credential sort of makes the privilege of having it even more dubious and useless imo. :shrug:

Anyway, sorry I got a little off tangent there.

[sailor734]

That's awesome. I can't commit to being physically present for hearings and stuff due to the nature of my work (rotating schedules including night shifts), so surveys are my best concrete contribution to the city trying to understand the pulse of the public. I'm happy somebody else here is doing it.



Unfortunately I have to agree. I had quite a few students ask me the wildest questions that should have been answered in their lab before they got to the bedside. They asked me how to check respiration rate. How did their instructors not cover this during fundamentals? Another major red flag is I saw their charting: some on pencil, a lot of scratch marks instead of strikethrough, empty spaces, improper signature. This is a legal document folks! :maddown:



Hopefully time and the continuous growth of the city is on our side.





They also offer the accelerated BSc program. Apparently anybody with a bachelor in science degree (no matter how far removed from Health Sciences?) can join and just do 2 years to obtain the BSc Nursing, and allow them to use the BScN credentials. I already personally find the distinction of BSN distasteful (i.e., some experienced and expert nurses graduated outside of Canada, or those who have been RNs before the creation of the BScN can't ever use those credentials) but logical. However, having only 2 years of actual nursing studies and being allowed to use that credential sort of makes the privilege of having it even more dubious and useless imo. :shrug:

Anyway, sorry I got a little off tangent there.

A family member went a similar route at UBC. They have a 5 semester/20 month BSN program that runs start to finish without more than a 10 day break between semesters. Students can apply after second year of a BSc program although the overwhelming majority of accepted applicants have a BSc. The program was very intensive and quite rigorous in terms of academics. Getting in was pretty tough. (700+ qualified applicants for 120 seats the year she went.)

With regard to your criticisms the UBC graduates are felt to be slightly less prepared for practical nursing on a hospital floor than the grads from the 4 years colleges like BCIT or Langara (although that disappears after a few months). However, they are felt to be more advanced academically and better prepared for further specialty training or a masters program.

I know the UBC program has prerequisites like bio, anatomy, physiology, chemistry etc so just any BSc won't do. Don't know how that compares with the UNB program.

FWIW I don't believe UBC even offers a four year BSN program and they are routinely ranked one of the top 2-3 nursing schools in the country so..... maybe these accelerated programs vary widely in quality among schools?

[new kid in town]

A family member went a similar route at UBC. They have a 5 semester/20 month BSN program that runs start to finish without more than a 10 day break between semesters. Students can apply after second year of a BSc program although the overwhelming majority of accepted applicants have a BSc. The program was very intensive and quite rigorous in terms of academics. Getting in was pretty tough. (700+ qualified applicants for 120 seats the year she went.)

With regard to your criticisms the UBC graduates are felt to be slightly less prepared for practical nursing on a hospital floor than the grads from the 4 years colleges like BCIT or Langara (although that disappears after a few months). However, they are felt to be more advanced academically and better prepared for further specialty training or a masters program.

I know the UBC program has prerequisites like bio, anatomy, physiology, chemistry etc so just any BSc won't do. Don't know how that compares with the UNB program.

FWIW I don't believe UBC even offers a four year BSN program and they are routinely ranked one of the top 2-3 nursing schools in the country so..... maybe these accelerated programs vary widely in quality among schools?

Ah that comparison from your family member is quite illuminating. Thank you. It probably is varied among different institutions.

Focusing on a masters program, I can see that being the case. However, for the Nurse Practitioner pathway, I am certain that it is mandatory for most provinces (either through their regulatory board or their post-grad programs) for 2 full years clinical experience working as RN as prerequisite. I have much respect for post-grad qualifications and credentials, but I also firmly believe that a bare minimum of skills need to be met because these are going to be future nurses I will be working with, taking care of the public. I always say vital signs are our bread and butter, so to hear somebody from an accelerated program slated to have BScN credentials ask me how to do something so fundamental sends my alarm bells ringing. Theory is fantastic but it has to translate to practice at some point.

In any case, I'm hoping they're not a representative of the bunch, as I also do work with somebody doing the proper LPN to RN bridge with UNB and she is absolutely fantastic. One of the best people to work with. Which is why I'm really hoping to get into UNB Nurse Practitioner stream in the future. :cheers:

To add to (and to steer back to) city development, I'm not sure if it's been discussed before but I read that Greater Moncton just bought new buses to help improve public transit. https://www.919thebend.ca/2024/02/13/63898/

This is a great move as our city continues to grow, and as we try to manage traffic in the downtown core. :)

[Photo1]

What is it that is being built at 917 Mountain Rd...next to Vibrant Life (across from old Pizza Hut)...I don't think I've seen it mentioned here and I'm quite curious what it is?

Thanks. :)

[MonctonRad]

What is it that is being built at 917 Mountain Rd...next to Vibrant Life (across from old Pizza Hut)...I don't think I've seen it mentioned here and I'm quite curious what it is?

Thanks. :)

Rising Tide affordable housing

[new kid in town]

Last night's meeting and approvals are amazing all around. On a personal note, I really want to see more 15+ storey buildings downtown, so St. Bernard alone is a win for me. But a really amazing thing is all three proposals were all different densities, which means that there will be units available for different markets/people. It also helps redirect the anger of the public in constantly asking """wHO cAn aFfoRD thESe tOWeR ConDoS??!?!1!11!""" as we can refer them to the townhouses instead.

:fireworks:

[sailor734]

Feds say "no" to Moncton Garrison land for housing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-military-land-request-denied-1.7122380

[sailor734]

Last night's meeting and approvals are amazing all around. On a personal note, I really want to see more 15+ storey buildings downtown, so St. Bernard alone is a win for me. But a really amazing thing is all three proposals were all different densities, which means that there will be units available for different markets/people. It also helps redirect the anger of the public in constantly asking """wHO cAn aFfoRD thESe tOWeR ConDoS??!?!1!11!""" as we can refer them to the townhouses instead.

:fireworks:

Whenever I hear comments like that about "who can afford these...." my first thought is "Lots of people apparently. Otherwise developers wouldn't be building them."

[new kid in town]

Feds say "no" to Moncton Garrison land for housing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-military-land-request-denied-1.7122380

I was just about to share this. I had expected the video to at least have some commentary but it's just aerial shots lol

[OliverD]

Whenever I hear comments like that about "who can afford these...." my first thought is "Lots of people apparently. Otherwise developers wouldn't be building them."

Exactly.

[sailor734]

Feds say "no" to Moncton Garrison land for housing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-military-land-request-denied-1.7122380

I never really understood what the Moncton mayor and council were doing with this proposal. Was it just for political cover or grandstanding?

I mean, if there are 500+ military personal and civilian DND employees working there it seems pretty obvious the property isn't surplus.:rolleyes:

[MonctonRad]

I never really understood what the Moncton mayor and council were doing with this proposal. Was it just for political cover or grandstanding?

I mean, if there are 500+ military personal and civilian DND employees working there it seems pretty obvious the property isn't surplus.:rolleyes:

Not employees, mostly reservists, but, point taken.

[MonctonRad]

Moncton eyes more compact development to help house a booming population
Council voted to adopt urban growth strategy that targets 11 sites for growth

Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Feb 26, 2024 9:07 PM AST | Last Updated: 3 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-urban-growth-strategy-1.7125814

Moncton councillors have voted unanimously in favour of a plan calling for higher-density housing developments over the next 25 years to accommodate a booming population.

The urban growth strategy calls for a "compact" strategy focused on 11 sites in the city. The plan, prepared for the city by Watson & Associates Economists Ltd., was presented at a committee meeting Monday afternoon.

(By 2046) the city will need to increase its housing supply by 45.6 per cent, or 16,000 housing units, over current levels. Roughly half are expected to be high density, like apartment buildings, rather than lower-density single-family homes, semi-detached or townhomes.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.7126422.1708992822!/fileImage/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/original_1180/urban-growth-strategy-map.JPG
The strategy calls for in-fill development around areas such as Wheeler Boulevard, Vaughan Harvey Boulevard, Millennium Boulevard and Ivan Rand Drive. Greenfield sites are the Vision Lands, the north end, east end and Royal Oaks subdivision. (City of Moncton)

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

Here's the T&T take:

City's Urban Growth Strategy is road map for population boom
More development and housing coming as city's population grows over 20 years
Author of the article:Alan Cochrane
Published Feb 27, 2024 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 2 minute read
https://tj.news/moncton-miramichi/citys-urban-growth-strategy-is-road-map-for-population-boom (paywall)

The scenario preferred by the city is more compact, with most of the growth and infrastructure renewal in the city’s core area. The city has already received federal government funding for infrastructure renewal in the area between Main Street and Assomption Boulevard, which is expected to change dramatically over the next decade. The work begun last year with the raising of Westmorland Street near the Moncton Law Courts building and will continue with new water and sewer lines, power and communications lines, that will provide a fresh canvas for developers. Budd said several new buildings are coming.

[Taeolas]

Hopefully the city is learning the lessons from giving in to the Tomato Ladies and won't be as quick to yield to the NIMBYs going forward.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

I'm assuming the 35,000 target is Moncton only and not Metro? If so we're on target for a Metro population of 230,000-250,000 in the next 22 years. We'll have those Late 80's early 90's Halifax vibes lol

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Hopefully the city is learning the lessons from giving in to the Tomato Ladies and won't be as quick to yield to the NIMBYs going forward.

I think the developer is goin to regret his decisions, and I bet he already is. That location could of easily supported a 12-15 story building.

[MonctonRad]

I'm assuming the 35,000 target is Moncton only and not Metro? If so we're on target for a Metro population of 230,000-250,000 in the next 22 years. We'll have those Late 80's early 90's Halifax vibes lol

It is only for the city of Moncton, yes.

They are projecting a Moncton population in 2046 of about 115-120,000.

Add in another 50,000 for Dieppe and maybe 30,000 for Riverview, then you would have a POPCTR population in 2046 of 200,000 people, and a probable CMA population of about 250,000 (maybe more if Shediac has been incorporated into the CMA by that point).

And, yes, that would be very close to the population of metro Halifax when I lived there in the 1980s.

And Halifax felt like a big city to me when I lived there. :)

[jonny golden]

I think the developer is goin to regret his decisions, and I bet he already is. That location could of easily supported a 12-15 story building.

It still bothers me that that the developer originally proposed a building that had to be 10 floors in order for the "project to be feasible." So now it's OK to go with 6 floors?

It's a real shame that we've seen a nice project with 162 desperately needed housing units reduced to 89 units. Never mind the prime location and the opportunity to create a landmark structure as an entrance to the downtown core.

I'm still holding out the faint hope that the developer will do the right thing and go higher with the current project.

[new kid in town]

It still bothers me that that the developer originally proposed a building that had to be 10 floors in order for the "project to be feasible." So now it's OK to go with 6 floors?

It's a real shame that we've seen a nice project with 162 desperately needed housing units reduced to 89 units. Never mind the prime location and the opportunity to create a landmark structure as an entrance to the downtown core.

I'm still holding out the faint hope that the developer will do the right thing and go higher with the current project.

With the structural foundations in place, is it possible to change into a 10 storey building at this point? I am not knowledgeable in architecture and engineering so I'm curious if this is possible.

[MonctonRad]

With the structural foundations in place, is it possible to change into a 10 storey building at this point? I am not knowledgeable in architecture and engineering so I'm curious if this is possible.

I'm sure that this ship has sailed, yes.

I imagine the calculated structural tolerances for this building would not allow for an additional four floors to be added willy-nilly.

[sailor734]

It is only for the city of Moncton, yes.

They are projecting a Moncton population in 2046 of about 115-120,000.

Add in another 50,000 for Dieppe and maybe 30,000 for Riverview, then you would have a POPCTR population in 2046 of 200,000 people, and a probable CMA population of about 250,000 (maybe more if Shediac has been incorporated into the CMA by that point).

And, yes, that would be very close to the population of metro Halifax when I lived there in the 1980s.

And Halifax felt like a big city to me when I lived there. :)

I was in Halifax for school late 70's/early 80's. It felt like a big city to me too

[sailor734]

I'm sure that this ship has sailed, yes.

I imagine the calculated structural tolerances for this building would not allow for an additional four floors to be added willy-nilly.

I expect you are right. I can't imagine them engineering and building the foundations and floors to support a far larger structure than planned.

[jonny golden]

I'm sure that this ship has sailed, yes.

I imagine the calculated structural tolerances for this building would not allow for an additional four floors to be added willy-nilly.

Could they go to 7 or 8, I don't know enough about the subject to speculate. But the bottom line is you're right, that ship has sailed. A missed opportunity, unfortunately.

I really hope the Junction developers will step up with a formidable project!

[MonctonRad]

I really hope the Junction developers will step up with a formidable project!

I have a gut feeling that the Junction Urban Village may be taking a bit of a construction hiatus. I have no inside knowledge. This is just a feeling.

The most recent site plan indicated that the "office tower complex" (former Junction Hall) will be the next building, and, since this is commercial, they will have to wait until market conditions are right. With so many people still WFH right now, the commercial market for office space is really depressed right now.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53186054800_2f32418e9d_b.jpg

[jonny golden]

I don't know how long it's been since the Junction website was updated, but I'm surprised that they still show an office tower on the site plan. Just go on the commercial realtor sites and you'll see an abundance of office space for lease in Moncton, most of which has been sitting vacant for ages.

Bringing more office space to market doesn't seem to be a sound business plan. You'd have to think that they'll pivot to something else. Maybe they're working on a new plan, and that's why we're seeing a pause in construction. At least I hope so.

Meanwhile, instead of having inventory continue to sit empty, other cities are converting vacant office space to residential units. I don't know if we'll see that trend happening in Moncton or not.

[MonctonRad]

Industrial development in Moncton is smokin' hot right now!!!

High demand for industrial park land has non-profit (MID) eyeing expansions
Moncton Industrial Development Ltd. says land sales continue to be strong
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Mar 04, 2024 5:29 PM AST | Last Updated: 4 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-industrial-parks-expansion-1.7132884

Moncton Industrial Development Ltd. (MID) is expanding two of its parks, hopes to begin a large expansion of a third this year, and recently bought a swathe of land for a whole new park already expected to be sold out by 2030.

Pierre Dupuis, general manager of the non-profit company, said it is selling 75 to 80 acres per year compared to 30 acres around 2018.

As a result, the company is about to request that city council expand what's known as the urban boundary, a limit meant to reduce sprawl, even as the municipality eyes more compact residential development over the next 25 years.

An urban growth strategy presented to city council last week says "the MID land inventory is being sold and developed at an accelerated rate that continuously requires the expansion of new employment lands to meet current and projected demands. This is directly impacting the overall structure and serviceable areas of the City."

Bill Budd, the city's director of planning and development, told councillors last week municipal staff are working closely with MID on expansion plans as they eye future locations.

Highlights:

Main MID Industrial Park - fully sold
Caledonia Industrial Park - fully sold (40 acre expansion underway)
Harrisville Logistics Park (SW corner of the TCH/15 interchange, currently under construction) - 124 acres, 66% pre-sold
Moncton East Business Park - 70% sold
MID West Industrial Park - approximately 70% sold. A 250 acre expansion is planned for south of the CNR mainline, already with 90 acres pre-sold

But wait, there's more!!!

But even with those expansions, MID is already eyeing development of another new industrial park.

In September it bought 145 acres of land north of the Trans-Canada Highway between Mapleton Road and McLaughlin Drive.

The urban growth strategy presented to council last week says that if current trends continue, MID expects that land will be sold and developed before 2030.

This last bit is out of the blue. This is virgin land, not far from the McLaughlin Road reservoir. To develop this land, there would have to be an expansion to the municipal service boundary. The city has been loath to expanding the service boundary for residential development, but, I think they would be more amenable to doing this for industrial development.

But, what about access??? It is difficult to imagine that principle access would be via Mapleton Road. This street is a dead end north of the TCH, and, there is a large subdivision located there, as well as a campground. McLaughlin Road would be equally as problematic, especially as there is currently no TCH interchange on McLaughlin.

To do this right, an interchange at TCH/McLaughlin would have to be constructed (I am 95% sure this is in the cards anyway) and/or a brand new interchange with the TCH between Mapleton and McLaughlin created. This might be possible, and, would also have the added benefit of providing direct highway access to the "Vision Lands."

Hmmmmmm......

[josh_cat_eyes]

Industrial development in Moncton is smokin' hot right now!!!

High demand for industrial park land has non-profit (MID) eyeing expansions
Moncton Industrial Development Ltd. says land sales continue to be strong
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Mar 04, 2024 5:29 PM AST | Last Updated: 4 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-industrial-parks-expansion-1.7132884


Highlights:

Main MID Industrial Park - fully sold
Caledonia Industrial Park - fully sold (40 acre expansion underway)
Harrisville Logistics Park (SW corner of the TCH/15 interchange, currently under construction) - 124 acres, 66% pre-sold
Moncton East Business Park - 70% sold
MID West Industrial Park - approximately 70% sold. A 250 acre expansion is planned for south of the CNR mainline, already with 90 acres pre-sold

But wait, there's more!!!



This last bit is out of the blue. This is virgin land, not far from the McLaughlin Road reservoir. To develop this land, there would have to be an expansion to the municipal service boundary. The city has been loath to expanding the service boundary for residential development, but, I think they would be more amenable to doing this for industrial development.

But, what about access??? It is difficult to imagine that principle access would be via Mapleton Road. This street is a dead end north of the TCH, and, there is a large subdivision located there, as well as a campground. McLaughlin Road would be equally as problematic, especially as there is currently no TCH interchange on McLaughlin.

To do this right, an interchange at TCH/McLaughlin would have to be constructed (I am 95% sure this is in the cards anyway) and/or a brand new interchange with the TCH between Mapleton and McLaughlin created. This might be possible, and, would also have the added benefit of providing direct highway access to the "Vision Lands."

Hmmmmmm......

The land that they bought was acquired from Thrive. I remember them having a listing for it on their website. I was wondering who had bought it after the listing was removed. It is adjacent to the campground (on the east side of it) and is south west of the reservoir. I imagine it would lineup perfectly to have another highway exit here as well.

I also recently noticed that a large section of the vision lands west has been consolidated together into a single parcel. This is the lands immediately north of the Mapleton Centre retail area. I know that some of this land was also previously (or currently) owned by thrive as well. If a land consolidation is taking place both north and south of the TCH, this would make it much easier to connect the developments, as you’d eliminate multiple party’s. This will be something to watch.

[MonctonRad]

If a land consolidation is taking place both north and south of the TCH, this would make it much easier to connect the developments, as you’d eliminate multiple party’s. This will be something to watch.

Indeed. I smell a whole brand new interchange coming, just like the Harrisville Blvd interchange which was built by MID to access the Caledonia Industrial Park (but also conveniently connecting to Dieppe Blvd too). I think it's gonna happen again - an interchange for the new industrial park here (but conveniently connecting to the Vision Lands too).

It's just too perfect.......

[MonctonRad]

The most intriguing thing about the industrial park expansions going on around Moncton is what is up with the MID West expansion next to the CNR mainline. 90 acres have been pre sold, despite not even a single bucket of earth having been dug.

The word is that there are two large companies planning major distribution centres in this particular park. Their interest is based on the fact they want direct rail access for their facilities. I am really curious as to which two companies these are. Are we talking Amazon, Costco, maybe Walmart???

I know that Walmart has already built a distribution centre in the Caledonia Industrial Park, but that is used strictly for food distribution. I have heard rumours that they might be interested in a second distribution centre in the city for general merchandise.

I am very interested in the MID West expansion........

[jonny golden]

The most intriguing thing about the industrial park expansions going on around Moncton is what is up with the MID West expansion next to the CNR mainline. 90 acres have been pre sold, despite not even a single bucket of earth having been dug.

The word is that there are two large companies planning major distribution centres in this particular park. Their interest is based on the fact they want direct rail access for their facilities. I am really curious as to which two companies these are. Are we talking Amazon, Costco, maybe Walmart???

I know that Walmart has already built a distribution centre in the Caledonia Industrial Park, but that is used strictly for food distribution. I have heard rumours that they might be interested in a second distribution centre in the city for general merchandise.

I am very interested in the MID West expansion........

AFAIK the closest Amazon fulfillment center to us is in Montreal. With the recent & expected population growth in eastern Canada, we could very well be on their radar. It would be a great get for Moncton to have an Amazon presence in the city.

The jobs that the industrial parks are generating have to be creating a huge spin-off effect in the Moncton economy.

[Haliguy]

AFAIK the closest Amazon fulfillment center to us is in Montreal. With the recent & expected population growth in eastern Canada, we could very well be on their radar. It would be a great get for Moncton to have an Amazon presence in the city.

The jobs that the industrial parks are generating have to be creating a huge spin-off effect in the Moncton economy.

An Amazon fulfillment centre has already been annouced for Dartmouth.

[jonny golden]

An Amazon fulfillment centre has already been accounced for Dartmouth.

OK thanks. Scratch the Moncton idea then.

[Photo1]

There is a crew tearing down the old Esquire Tavern/Little Darlings building this morning on Mountain Road near Papa Johns.

It's completely demolished. :shrug:

[MonctonRad]

There is a crew tearing down the old Esquire Tavern/Little Darlings building this morning on Mountain Road near Papa Johns.

It's completely demolished. :shrug:

It's destined to be a parking lot for the adjacent funeral home.

[Photo1]

It's destined to be a parking lot for the adjacent funeral home.

That would be a waste of high traffic real estate to say the least...but wouldn't surprise me.

[DyAm00394]

Industrial development in Moncton is smokin' hot right now!!!

High demand for industrial park land has non-profit (MID) eyeing expansions
Moncton Industrial Development Ltd. says land sales continue to be strong
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Mar 04, 2024 5:29 PM AST | Last Updated: 4 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-industrial-parks-expansion-1.7132884

AllNewBrunswick has an new article posted online with the headline "New Moncton Industrial Park Lands First Buyer". It's a subscription based website, so can't view the article for details. https://allnewbrunswick.com/

[DyAm00394]

AllNewBrunswick has an new article posted online with the headline "New Moncton Industrial Park Lands First Buyer". It's a subscription based website, so can't view the article for details. https://allnewbrunswick.com/

Update: Someone over on Retail Talk and Share kindly provided info from the article.

“ For the industrial park, it is an Ontario Trucking company, Martian Properties Inc. they paid $4.67 Million ($350,000 an acre for 13.2 acres). The property is on Babineau Boulevard East which had great visibility from Veteran's Memorial Highway, and that's what they wanted, was visibility on the highway.

They don't know what they plan on putting there though. There are 2 more sales that were expected in March but got pushed to May and looking at 2 more sales in late summer, fall”.

[MonctonRad]

That would be in the Harrisville Logistics Park (under construction), and the highway visibility would be from Route 15.

[MonctonRad]

Here is the link to the pdf of Moncton's recently updated Urban Growth Strategy report:

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/urban-growth-strategy.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0Z9JWEGocIOjcQK4gm5TWLgYjO0OItpBSM0sasL7vBVLFp_iqlfmd93Hk

[MonctonRad]

An interesting read........

Moncton effort to protect waterways from road salt gets encouraging results
Ducks Unlimited reports improved water quality when runoff is diverted to specially built wetland
Hannah Rudderham · CBC News · Posted: Mar 10, 2024 6:00 AM ADT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-wetland-project-1.7138391

A worthwhile initiative to protect the Jonathon Creek watershed.

[Lobster chucker]

An Amazon fulfillment centre has already been annouced for Dartmouth.

Are you referring to the one that is currently open?

[Bishop2047]

Are you referring to the one that is currently open?

Yea must be referring to the one that has been open since 2021. I believe it is a warehouse so a step down from a full fulfillment center. Have two relatives that work there as drivers.

https://hiring.amazon.ca/jobDetail/en-CA/Amazon-Delivery-Station-Warehouse-Associate/Dartmouth/a0R4U00000FSE2CUAX#/jobDetail?jobId=a0R4U00000FSE2CUAX&locale=en-CA&seoIndex=1

[MonctonRad]

Here is the link for the March PAC meeting for the city of Moncton:

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/PAC/March_27_2024/Agenda_March_27_Ordre_du_jour.pdf

The only item of note is this:

Jonathan Park Unit 5 – Land for Public Purposes - The Tentative Subdivision Plan involves the creation of Land for Public Purposes and 1 lot for future residential development.

Curiously, there is no supporting documentation posted on the PAC website.

[Haliguy]

Yea must be referring to the one that has been open since 2021. I believe it is a warehouse so a step down from a full fulfillment center. Have two relatives that work there as drivers.

https://hiring.amazon.ca/jobDetail/en-CA/Amazon-Delivery-Station-Warehouse-Associate/Dartmouth/a0R4U00000FSE2CUAX#/jobDetail?jobId=a0R4U00000FSE2CUAX&locale=en-CA&seoIndex=1

It was annouced as a fullfillement Centre. Maybe it never came to be and just ended being a warehouse, I don't know.

[Bishop2047]

It was annouced as a fullfillement Centre. Maybe it never came to be and just ended being a warehouse, I don't know.

My understanding is that there is little difference between the two. It's a designation by sq/ft and perhaps some other features like capability to fill third party orders and such. Seems that the lines are a bit blurry, but my family that works there always corrects me.

I'm sure at some point NB will have some sort of Amazon presence. Despite my personal efforts to avoid them at all cost.