Tucson Development Thread

[Ted Lyons]

You'll gonna have to wait and see the changes that's coming the next two years in and around downtown. And there will be more high rises proposed and built.

Says you. I'll just sit here and be happy with decent-sized mixed use projects that any city would be happy to have.

I won't be surprised someone like you posting in this forum five years ago predicting that downtown can't be renovated.

That's fundamentally not what I've said to you and, if you look back at my posts, that's clearly not been my POV in the past. There's a broad range of mindsets between pessimism and irrationality (you).

The Cadence and Peach Property's adjustments is due to not having enough $$$ to build a higher building.

I get the idea that you just don't understand how finance works. If the market could support larger projects, larger projects would get built.

[gozilla]

Says you. I'll just sit here and be happy with decent-sized mixed use projects that any city would be happy to have.



That's fundamentally not what I've said to you and, if you look back at my posts, that's clearly not been my POV in the past. There's a broad range of mindsets between pessimism and irrationality (you).



I get the idea that you just don't understand how finance works. If the market could support larger projects, larger projects would get built.

Ah yes, market. Good excuse for a NIMBY in disguise. Hey guys! I've outed a NIMBY in your forum! :haha:

Well, looks like you are taking this too personal. ok. I'll pull back and let you enjoy preaching your preference for 3 story buildings as supported by your market in skyscraperpage.

Here's another irrational prediction - the modern streetcar will be extended beyond downtown and the UA. High speed rail will pass through Tucson. Brand name stores will pop up downtown ... within 5 years.

[nickw252]

Ah yes, market. Good excuse for a NIMBY in disguise. Hey guys! I've outed a NIMBY in your forum! :haha:

Well, looks like you are taking this too personal. ok. I'll pull back and let you enjoy preaching your preference for 3 story buildings as supported by your market in skyscraperpage.

Here's another irrational prediction - the modern streetcar will be extended beyond downtown and the UA. High speed rail will pass through Tucson. Brand name stores will pop up downtown ... within 5 years.

Whoa you are way too optimistic. This is Tucson you're talking about. High-speed rail, streetcar extension, downtown retail all within five years? I wish. Give it a few decades, man.


The other joke, the seven story One Broadway "high rise" . I mean c'mon, that spot in the very center of downtown (stone/broadway) needs to be just as tall as the Unisource "tower".

Have you ever been to Brooklyn, Washington DC, or Paris? Those cities are filled with mid-rise buildings like what you are describing. I'll take a 7 floor mid-rise any day over another Unisource Tower. Residential development is what brings vibrancy into downtowns, not high rise offices that are only full from 9-5.

Here are your options in reality: A 7-story shovel-ready mixed-used project or a parking lot for the next 10 to 20 years. What's better?

+1

[Anqrew]

To help clear this up...

I too would love a maybe 15-25 floor building instead of a 7 floor. I do wish maybe they could up it to just 9 or 10 floors, i think that would be good. But for now 7 will have to do. the demand IS there, but its not great enough for larger scale. The ball has just started rolling, and we're seeing that with the student housing, and these smaller scale housing projects. We need to already have a strong community presence downtown before we can start thinking about large scale condos and corporate retailers.

My vision/predication: Once all current student housing is finished, streetcar is up and running, all new restaurants have opened... We will see downtown getting better shopping, i think something along the lines of walgreens, target, or grocery store will all be built within a year of student housing finishing up.

Now once we have this large student population and stores they can shop at, that dont require them to travel far, then.... we will start seeing maybe 15 floor condos being proposed. I think by this point it will be about 2017. and by then we can start realistically building a lot taller because in 5 years time the market is going to be a lot different and im sure the demand HUGE. I think people are going to start flocking downtown from the outskirts. people will want to move here from other states. until then (2017 IMO) large projects are not realistic.

But that doesnt mean i dont wish we had some now, but i dont think the demand or resources are there.

[Ritarancher]

Ah yes, market. Good excuse for a NIMBY in disguise. Hey guys! I've outed a NIMBY in your forum! :haha:

Well, looks like you are taking this too personal. ok. I'll pull back and let you enjoy preaching your preference for 3 story buildings as supported by your market in skyscraperpage.

Here's another irrational prediction - the modern streetcar will be extended beyond downtown and the UA. High speed rail will pass through Tucson. Brand name stores will pop up downtown ... within 5 years.

I believe you forgot to put a 0 after the 5.
After the streetcar, student housing projects and most of the Mission District are complete we will finally see our current buildings filling up. Then is when we may finally see one or two highrises showing up.


http://www.ushsr.com/images/810_US_HSR_Phasing_Map.gif
A high speed rail sounds very unlikely. However this is Obama's vision for the future. But as we all know congress sucks and if the opposite party comes up with a good idea the other party will instantly oppose it because that can cause the candidate of the other party to be reelected. So who knows.
As you can see in the map, Tucson is lucky to get a rail but at the same time Tucson is more of a priority because our construction for the rail is 5 years earlier than most.

[Ted Lyons]

Ah yes, market. Good excuse for a NIMBY in disguise. Hey guys! I've outed a NIMBY in your forum! :haha:

This is so nonsensical I don't even know how to respond. I've never once seen people opposed to development altogether use lack of market demand as a support. That's because market demand fluctuates. My point here, which you seem to have trouble grasping even though it's very simple, is that the market demand RIGHT NOW doesn't exist for what you propose. I've cited numerous facts supporting this statement.

Well, looks like you are taking this too personal. ok. I'll pull back and let you enjoy preaching your preference for 3 story buildings as supported by your market in skyscraperpage.

Sounds like you've just given up on developing any real arguments.

Here's another irrational prediction - the modern streetcar will be extended beyond downtown and the UA. High speed rail will pass through Tucson. Brand name stores will pop up downtown ... within 5 years.

Um, yes. That's ridiculously irrational on an unprecedented level. Downtown may very well get brand name stores in the next five years, but your other fantasies take years to decades of planning just to get moving. To quickly demonstrate: The RTA plan was passed in 2006 and the streetcar won't be open until next year. That's 7 years alone and an extension hasn't even been officially discussed yet.

[Anqrew]

check out http://tucsonlevel.com/ for yet another rendering of Level!

[Mattic505]

This story broke on KOLD This evening...

By Bud Foster - Tucson News Now

TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) -
Two new projects proposed for downtown may add to traffic woes but be good for business.

One project at 5th and Congress, which also extends to Toole and Congress, would add a new 130-room hotel, six restaurants, two bars, some retail and residential space.

It's priced at $31 million.

It's being proposed by Tucson Urban Development.

It's estimated it could add 600 jobs, $18 million for Rio Nuevo through 2025 and $11 million to Tucson tax revenue by 2032.

If approved and built, it would be the first new downtown hotel in more than 30 years.... Full Article Here - Tucson News Now Downtown News (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19768225/construction-may-increase-downtown)

So I dug a little deeper!:yes:


The full project proposal can be found here (http://www.tucsonaz.gov/sirepub/cache/2/eigoui55wpv5cd2atwajzzeu/477057610092012070243260.PDF) but below are some of the project highlights.


From the proposal:

Hotel Project

"This hotel will be the first new hotel in Downtown Tucson in over 30 years. The 130 room hotel will help anchor the entertainment district of Downtown Tucson and add the last component to the 5th and Congress master plan of creating a vibrant 24/7 entertainment destination area. The proposed hotel is an upscale boutique brand that delivers a refreshing and inviting guest experience that is truly reflective of the local community. From the locally-inspired murals to the renewal program where the images, music, scent, and menu items change throughout the year, the Hotel will deliver a vibrant, engaging and genuine boutique experience that gives guests the confidence to step out and explore the local neighborhood. The brand design for the property will be unique to Tucson and designed to reflect our local culture, character and the geography of the surrounding area which visitors and residents enjoy so much about the region while the brand hallmarks ensure consistent and reliable service similar to their other successful locations. Tucson Urban is excited to partner with our international brand partner and Northface Investments, our financial and operational partner on the hotel, to deliver a wonderful visitor experience in downtown Tucson."

Here are some teaser images from the Hotel Proposal
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/420517_454991021206872_246830380_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/564936_454991034540204_467739260_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/47206_454991041206870_1460187472_n.jpg
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/560500_454991047873536_35203717_n.jpg


Rialto Block Redevelopment

"Tucson Urban Development and its investor partners are prepared to redevelop the entire block with 4 new restaurants, a new
small bar, retail, a mixed use courtyard, a small residential condo project, a Coworking lounge and a Coworking office suite facility.
3 of the 4 restaurants have signed LOI’s and are in preliminary design phase. The 20,000 sq. ft of office space will begin its preleasing in early 2013. The hope of this project to enhance the operations of the Rialto Theatre by providing supporting and complimentary resources and, hopefully, money to pay for improvements through the revenues generated by the project. The Rialto Theatre is a tremendous catalyst for the block by having shows over 100 nights a year. The success of the Theatre is important to the success of the block and the success of downtown. The total project cost for the Rialto Block portion of the redevelopment project is
$11,401,289."

Here are some teaser shots of the Coworking space and street level view:
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/63185_454991067873534_658940106_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/292793_454991084540199_962592562_n.jpg


There is also mention of the Arizona Avenue and Herbert Ave Streetscape projects.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/398213_454992524540055_657693963_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/427933_454992547873386_1459080714_n.jpg


Again the full proposal can be seen here:
http://www.tucsonaz.gov/sirepub/cache/2/eigoui55wpv5cd2atwajzzeu/477057610092012070243260.PDF

[kaneui]

This story broke on KOLD This evening...

By Bud Foster - Tucson News Now

TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) -
Two new projects proposed for downtown may add to traffic woes but be good for business.

One project at 5th and Congress, which also extends to Toole and Congress, would add a new 130-room hotel, six restaurants, two bars, some retail and residential space.

It's priced at $31 million.

It's being proposed by Tucson Urban Development.

It's estimated it could add 600 jobs, $18 million for Rio Nuevo through 2025 and $11 million to Tucson tax revenue by 2032.

If approved and built, it would be the first new downtown hotel in more than 30 years.... Full Article Here - Tucson News Now Downtown News (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19768225/construction-may-increase-downtown)


Again the full proposal can be seen here:
http://www.tucsonaz.gov/sirepub/cache/2/eigoui55wpv5cd2atwajzzeu/477057610092012070243260.PDF


With this 5th and Congress proposal, Scott Stiteler offers an impressive vision for his downtown properties, combining an eclectic mix of retail, residential, commercial, restaurants and bars, and a boutique hotel. He's asking for a slew of tax credits and fee waivers, but the project merits a close look, as it aims for a more synergistic and vibrant urban fabric, with widened sidewalks for outdoor dining, "coworking" office space, quality non-chain restaurant and retail tenants, and further improvements to adjoining alleys and streets.

Hopefully, the city will realize that this is the type of creative project it should support, as it will build on the recent improvements along Congress St. while continuing to preserve and enhance downtown's historic core.

[gozilla]

To help clear this up...

I too would love a maybe 15-25 floor building instead of a 7 floor. I do wish maybe they could up it to just 9 or 10 floors, i think that would be good. But for now 7 will have to do. the demand IS there, but its not great enough for larger scale. The ball has just started rolling, and we're seeing that with the student housing, and these smaller scale housing projects. We need to already have a strong community presence downtown before we can start thinking about large scale condos and corporate retailers.

My vision/predication: Once all current student housing is finished, streetcar is up and running, all new restaurants have opened... We will see downtown getting better shopping, i think something along the lines of walgreens, target, or grocery store will all be built within a year of student housing finishing up.

Now once we have this large student population and stores they can shop at, that dont require them to travel far, then.... we will start seeing maybe 15 floor condos being proposed. I think by this point it will be about 2017. and by then we can start realistically building a lot taller because in 5 years time the market is going to be a lot different and im sure the demand HUGE. I think people are going to start flocking downtown from the outskirts. people will want to move here from other states. until then (2017 IMO) large projects are not realistic.

But that doesnt mean i dont wish we had some now, but i dont think the demand or resources are there.

Angrew, that's the kind of attitude I want to hear in skyscraper page!

[gozilla]

I believe you forgot to put a 0 after the 5.
After the streetcar, student housing projects and most of the Mission District are complete we will finally see our current buildings filling up. Then is when we may finally see one or two highrises showing up.


http://www.ushsr.com/images/810_US_HSR_Phasing_Map.gif
A high speed rail sounds very unlikely. However this is Obama's vision for the future. But as we all know congress sucks and if the opposite party comes up with a good idea the other party will instantly oppose it because that can cause the candidate of the other party to be reelected. So who knows.
As you can see in the map, Tucson is lucky to get a rail but at the same time Tucson is more of a priority because our construction for the rail is 5 years earlier than most.

Ritarancher, nope , I didn't forget the 0 after the 5. Obama is going to win re-election and the dems have a good chance to take congress again.
https://www.azpm.org/p/top-news/2012/10/9/16813-adot-wants-public-comments-on-rail-plan/ High speed has been proposed several times in America but they've been blocked by nimby's . Glad these same nimby's weren't around when the Transcontinental Railroad was signed by Abe Lincoln during the Civil War. Lincoln was overwhelmed with the price tag of building the railroad...he doesn't even know where to get the $$$ to build it.

And thanks for your desire for taller buildings. Reading other forums in skyscraper, most comments would be 'the building isn't tall enough' or 'that building looks ugly'...unfortunately, every now and then, a nimby or two would pop up, praising the opposite....creating all theses excuse (like the market doesn't allow it NOW) and you would end up with crap - like Tucson for several years.

In Tucson, there's always these handful of activist that are good at infecting people's minds, here's one of them (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/neighborhood-activist-shattuck-dies/article_70418e0b-0c44-5d90-b08a-4054c583a2a6.html) <<-- In case you guys are wondering why Tucson doesn't have a crosstown freeway that most people want but only a few are quite skillful enough to manipulate the system to push their own selfish utopian agenda - keep Tucson into a Mayberry.... A good reason why Tucson is the sixth poorest city in America and an extremely large Mayberry.

btw, the reason downtown Tucson needs brand name stores/retail/restaurants, is that over the decades, local businesses have always been advertised as the coming savior of downtown - never happened. You need to mix in some brand name stores like what they used to have before the late 60's. Nothing against local retailers/restaurants etc downtown... you just need to mixed in brand name stores.

[Ted Lyons]

Great find, Mattic505!

So, I was hoping the pictures used to illustrate the hotel design would shed some light on the operator, but no dice. The interior shots are from a SpringHill Suites in Seattle, which is operated by Marriott, and the exterior shots are from the Hotel Indigo in San Diego, which is operated by InterContinental Hotels Group. Something like a Hotel Indigo would be amazing, though.

[Ted Lyons]

Damn!

presuming these incentives available to developments of this nature are awarded to the project, we have commitments on all aspects of the development to move forward and develop according to our timeline.

EDIT:

3 of the 4 restaurants [in the Rialto Block] have signed LOI’s and are in preliminary design phase.

I'm assuming those are Diablo Burger, Proper, and Good Oak.

[Azstar]

It would be fantastic news if this development actually occurs downtown. Here's hoping a) the Developmental Services Dept doesn't make the process so expensive and cumbersome that the developers will just give up and walk away like many have done in the past, and b) Karen Ulich doesn't demand more "low cost housing" as a condition of approving any plans.

[gozilla]

This story broke on KOLD This evening...

By Bud Foster - Tucson News Now

TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) -
Two new projects proposed for downtown may add to traffic woes but be good for business.

One project at 5th and Congress, which also extends to Toole and Congress, would add a new 130-room hotel, six restaurants, two bars, some retail and residential space.

It's priced at $31 million.

It's being proposed by Tucson Urban Development.

It's estimated it could add 600 jobs, $18 million for Rio Nuevo through 2025 and $11 million to Tucson tax revenue by 2032.

If approved and built, it would be the first new downtown hotel in more than 30 years.... Full Article Here - Tucson News Now Downtown News (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19768225/construction-may-increase-downtown)

....

Again the full proposal can be seen here:
http://www.tucsonaz.gov/sirepub/cache/2/eigoui55wpv5cd2atwajzzeu/477057610092012070243260.PDF

This project is appealing. My only issue here is that, I hope they design these buildings to allow building more floors on top of it over time....like what they did at the Centro Garage. I'll forgive the folks at One Broadway if they would allow more floors above it over time.

Tucson really needs to prepare in what's to come. Now is the time. It's a member of a megaregion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaregions_of_the_United_States) .

I'm hoping the city would require areas in Tucson a minimum of 5 floors if a developer chose to build in those areas.

[Ritarancher]

This project is appealing. My only issue here is that, I hope they design these buildings to allow building more floors on top of it over time....like what they did at the Centro Garage. I'll forgive the folks at One Broadway if they would allow more floors above it over time.

Tucson really needs to prepare in what's to come. Now is the time. It's a member of a megaregion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaregions_of_the_United_States) .

I'm hoping the city would require areas in Tucson a minimum of 5 floors if a developer chose to build in those areas.

We don't want to go over the top with our hotels, there are proposals for this hotel, a hotel on the green line, and a main gate square hotel and a hotel in the mission district. If we have too many hotels and not enough guest other hotels will see that we're struggling to fill in the hotels and will overlook Tucson in the future when we need hotels.
And seriously make a hotel that can have more floors added to it?! This is our first hotel in downtown in 3 decades, be happy with the 6 story building we're getting. Do we all wish for a taller skyscraper, yes but as of right now we have no proposals for any skyscrapers in downtown

I looked at the map and I was disappointed as to how Tucson was represented on the map. We have 1,000,000 people and but the same size circle as prescott,yuma and flagstaff which have a lot less people.

[gozilla]

We don't want to go over the top with our hotels, there are proposals for this hotel, a hotel on the green line, and a main gate square hotel and a hotel in the mission district. If we have too many hotels and not enough guest other hotels will see that we're struggling to fill in the hotels and will overlook Tucson in the future when we need hotels.
And seriously make a hotel that can have more floors added to it?! This is our first hotel in downtown in 3 decades, be happy with the 6 story building we're getting. Do we all wish for a taller skyscraper, yes but as of right now we have no proposals for any skyscrapers in downtown

I looked at the map and I was disappointed as to how Tucson was represented on the map. We have 1,000,000 people and but the same size circle as prescott,yuma and flagstaff which have a lot less people.

We'll just let the hotels decide how tall they want their buildings to be. Personally, I would want them to build them at least 5 floors high. Boutique Hotel is fine as long as it's at least 5 floors high.

Metro Tucson has about 1 mil. people. Metro Phx has about 4 mil. people. And like you said Tucson's physical size is about the same as Prescott, Yuma and Flagstaff. Tucson doesn't want to be Phx (sprawl). So the solution is to build up. Urbanization is the trend. It's getting more expensive for the average individual to own a house in the suburbs but folks (especially recent young professionals/grads) want to live good. So it's safe to conclude that there's a market for high quality urban housing NOW.

Anyway, when Obama gets re-elected and the Dems take over Congress and especially if Richard Carmona gets elected into the senate, Arizona's chances of building a high speed rail within 5 years are high. Az wants high speed rail. ADOT wants it. Maricopa and Pima counties want it. What's lacking is the $$$.

btw, I or you shouldn't feel guilty spending Federal $$$ to build a high speed rail considering all the $$$ of tax cuts from the rich stashed in a foreign bank account much like what Mitt 'the Twit' Romney did. (http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/23/12903523-a-money-black-hole-rich-hide-at-least-21-trillion-in-tax-havens-study-shows?lite&__utma=14933801.2023512994.1342393687.1343057207.1343059973.77&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1343059973&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342727781.40.2.utmcsr=msnbc.msn.com|utmccn=(referral)|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/id/48226837/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/astronaut-awestruck-view-southern-lights-space/&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=174316066)

There's also the trend of temp jobs as the norm ... so you don't want to live in a home with a mortgage when you can live in temporary housing (apt) which allows you to move around quickly. (http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/02/13070977-temp-jobs-become-a-permanent-way-of-life-for-some?lite)

[Patrick S]

We'll just let the hotels decide how tall they want their buildings to be. Personally, I would want them to build them at least 5 floors high. Boutique Hotel is fine as long as it's at least 5 floors high.

Metro Tucson has about 1 mil. people. Metro Phx has about 4 mil. people. And like you said Tucson's physical size is about the same as Prescott, Yuma and Flagstaff. Tucson doesn't want to be Phx (sprawl). So the solution is to build up. Urbanization is the trend. It's getting more expensive for the average individual to own a house in the suburbs but folks (especially recent young professionals/grads) want to live good. So it's safe to conclude that there's a market for high quality urban housing NOW.

Anyway, when Obama gets re-elected and the Dems take over Congress and especially if Richard Carmona gets elected into the senate, Arizona's chances of building a high speed rail within 5 years are high. Az wants high speed rail. ADOT wants it. Maricopa and Pima counties want it. What's lacking is the $$$.

btw, I or you shouldn't feel guilty spending Federal $$$ to build a high speed rail considering all the $$$ of tax cuts from the rich stashed in a foreign bank account much like what Mitt 'the Twit' Romney did. (http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/23/12903523-a-money-black-hole-rich-hide-at-least-21-trillion-in-tax-havens-study-shows?lite&__utma=14933801.2023512994.1342393687.1343057207.1343059973.77&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1343059973&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342727781.40.2.utmcsr=msnbc.msn.com|utmccn=(referral)|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/id/48226837/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/astronaut-awestruck-view-southern-lights-space/&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=174316066)

There's also the trend of temp jobs as the norm ... so you don't want to live in a home with a mortgage when you can live in temporary housing (apt) which allows you to move around quickly. (http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/02/13070977-temp-jobs-become-a-permanent-way-of-life-for-some?lite)
Don't say when Obama wins. Please. Just don't jinx it. I want Obama to win as much as anyone, and two weeks ago I didn't think Romney had a chance, but after the debate a week of so ago I still think Romney has a chance. That being said, there is no way AZ could build, or probably even start building, an HSR line in 5 years from now. Again, I want an HSR line as much as anyone. There are so many advantages to it. Not only does it increase mobility, decrease greenhouse gases, but it also frees up more room on normal rails for more transporting of goods on freight trains and it will help alleviate the amount of people flying shorter distances (LA to SF, NY to Boston) which means more flights for longer distances and/or less flights altogether. But, California is probably the only state that has a chance to have a line even started in the next 5 years, since they have all the EPA studies completed. And don't worry, I have no problem with the idea of spending tax money on an HSR line. Without the Federal Government spending money on canals in the 1700s and early 1800s, spending money on rail-lines in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and spending money on the Interstate Highway system from the 1950s onwards, this country would have never been the economic powerhouse we became. The greatest economic expansion this country - in fact the world - has ever known is during the 1950s. The tax rate during that time was much higher than today, but we spent the money on the Interstates Highway system and putting WWII vets through college on the GI Bill. In other words, we invested in our country. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Every year we wait to fix it, let alone expand it, we are adding more money on to fix it - both because it will cost more to fix something more broken (an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure) and because of inflation. The fact is by spending on infrastructure we are investing in our country's economic future. But try telling that to the GOP.

[Patrick S]

Here's an article about an online survey for AzDOT about proposed rail lines (and a BRT line) between Tucson and Phoenix. I took the survey, and honestly was a little upset with it. The fastest route to Phoenix was like 90-95 minutes and topped out at less than 100mph. I did take the opportunity to tell them that BRT was stupid between the cities (it doesn't help unclog I-10, it doesn't help with greenhouse gasses), and that I was disappointed there was no HSR option (I repeatedly told them this). Let these people know what you guys think. We'll never get an HSR line unless we tell them we want one.

Share your input on transportation option to Phoenix (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19798783/share-your-input-on-transportation-option-to-phoenix)

By Sarah Cantey

Here is your chance to weigh in on a new transportation option up to Phoenix.

The Arizona Department of Transportation is asking for your input about the possibility of adding a passenger rail line or bus service.

Seven options are being studied right now, including six rail routes and one express bus service.

Folks in Maricopa, Pinal and Pima Counties are encouraged to participate.

Here is a link to the survey: http://www.azdot.gov/passengerrail/

[Ted Lyons]

Here's an article about an online survey for AzDOT about proposed rail lines (and a BRT line) between Tucson and Phoenix. I took the survey, and honestly was a little upset with it. The fastest route to Phoenix was like 90-95 minutes and topped out at less than 100mph. I did take the opportunity to tell them that BRT was stupid between the cities (it doesn't help unclog I-10, it doesn't help with greenhouse gasses), and that I was disappointed there was no HSR option (I repeatedly told them this). Let these people know what you guys think. We'll never get an HSR line unless we tell them we want one.

Share your input on transportation option to Phoenix (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19798783/share-your-input-on-transportation-option-to-phoenix)

By Sarah Cantey

Here is your chance to weigh in on a new transportation option up to Phoenix.

The Arizona Department of Transportation is asking for your input about the possibility of adding a passenger rail line or bus service.

Seven options are being studied right now, including six rail routes and one express bus service.

Folks in Maricopa, Pinal and Pima Counties are encouraged to participate.

Here is a link to the survey: http://www.azdot.gov/passengerrail/

Without going over the info, I wonder if the plans for rail would enable a later upgrade to HSR without considerable infrastructure improvements.

[Patrick S]

Without going over the info, I wonder if the plans for rail would enable a later upgrade to HSR without considerable infrastructure improvements.
I doubt it. Most, if not all, of the routes were on Union Pacific or Santa Fe rail lines. For true HSR they'd have to build dedicated lines.

[Ted Lyons]

I doubt it. Most, if not all, of the routes were on Union Pacific or Santa Fe rail lines. For true HSR they'd have to build dedicated lines.

Well, I ask because I've been under the impression all along that any proposed rail route would require construction of new tracks as yielding to freight trains on the existing tracks would make passenger travel unworkable. In fact, based on the 90 minute figure they're tossing around, I'd have to assume new rail construction is a definite.

If that were the case, and the rail could accommodate faster trains, the only holdup in providing HSR would be fronting the cost of the trains themselves, which I'm sure are expensive. But, that would at least allow for an improvement down the line with no more infrastructure investment.

[aznate27]

We don't want to go over the top with our hotels, there are proposals for this hotel, a hotel on the green line, and a main gate square hotel and a hotel in the mission district. If we have too many hotels and not enough guest other hotels will see that we're struggling to fill in the hotels and will overlook Tucson in the future when we need hotels.
And seriously make a hotel that can have more floors added to it?! This is our first hotel in downtown in 3 decades, be happy with the 6 story building we're getting. Do we all wish for a taller skyscraper, yes but as of right now we have no proposals for any skyscrapers in downtown

I looked at the map and I was disappointed as to how Tucson was represented on the map. We have 1,000,000 people and but the same size circle as prescott,yuma and flagstaff which have a lot less people.

Gozilla don't hold your breath on thinking One Broadway will be more than seven stories in the future after it's built. They probably would have mentioned it by now, plus the top floors will have people living in them, and it's highly unlikely the residents will be OK with such construction that would disrupt their lives as in adding new floors. Looking at the drawing it looks like it will be a tall seven story, meaning it might have the hight of an eight or nine story building if the bottom two office floors have high ceilings.

Little known fact: The office building that holds the YMCA downtown had plans to build a 10 story tower on top of the parking garage. They used to have a model of it in the building's lobby, I saw it once soon after it was built, not sure if it's still in the lobby. I'm assuming it was never built for the same reasons that the second Unisorce tower was never built.

As far as hotels, I think that the city should have pushed for the Starpass Hotel to either have been built downtown or much closer to it. Here is this huge hotel in the middle of nowhere that is never busy due to it's location. They should have scrapped the golf course, and just built it downtown, it wouldn't be facing finacial troubles like it is today and probably would have added another high-rise to the skyline.

And I too think that the high speed rail would have a dedicated line. It doesn't make sense to do on exsisting rail lines, it would defeat the purpose of a high speed train. If I could ride on a train that got me to Phoeinx in 30 minutes, I would totally use it.

[Patrick S]

Well, I ask because I've been under the impression all along that any proposed rail route would require construction of new tracks as yielding to freight trains on the existing tracks would make passenger travel unworkable. In fact, based on the 90 minute figure they're tossing around, I'd have to assume new rail construction is a definite.

If that were the case, and the rail could accommodate faster trains, the only holdup in providing HSR would be fronting the cost of the trains themselves, which I'm sure are expensive. But, that would at least allow for an improvement down the line with no more infrastructure investment.

There's no doubt HSR, or even normal passenger rail lines, would be unworkable on existing lines, especially with Union Pacific's desire to increase the amount of rail traffic in and around Tucson (even though they either are, or in the planning stages of, building parallel dual lines).

[Ted Lyons]

There's no doubt HSR, or even normal passenger rail lines, would be unworkable on existing lines, especially with Union Pacific's desire to increase the amount of rail traffic in and around Tucson (even though they either are, or in the planning stages of, building parallel dual lines).

Good point, if UP is having to build more lines themselves, there's no way they're going to let passenger trains use the tracks they have now.

To me, this is actually a blessing a in disguise. Having travelled on shared tracks on the East Coast, it's a nightmare. The second you get moving, you have to pull off on a spur to let another train by and passenger trains always have to yield.

[kaneui]

Even with its infrastructure in place for several months, the 65-acre UA BioPark has struggled to sign tenants so building construction can begin:


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/TucsonMarketplaceattheBridgesaerial04-21-12-1.jpg
A May, 2012 aerial showing the UA BioPark street grid in the northeast section of The Bridges
mixed-use infill development between Park Ave. and Kino Parkway.
(photo: Tucson Marketplace at The Bridges)


With beginning behind it, UA BioPark looks to future
Site is dedicated with basics in place; buildings are next

by David Wichner
Arizona Daily Star
October 12, 2012

After more than a decade of planning and nearly three years after its groundbreaking, the University of Arizona Bioscience Park is celebrating the end of the beginning. And while the first biotech building has yet to rise from the site, still mostly dirt, at East 36th Street and Kino Parkway, the school is hoping that won't be far off. On Thursday, UA officials and local dignitaries gathered under a drizzly fall sky to formally dedicate the UA BioPark. The 54-acre biotech park is ready for aboveground development after the completion of millions of dollars of infrastructure improvements including drainage and utilities, graded pads, lighting, sidewalks, roads, signage and landscaping. A $4.7 million federal stimulus grant in 2009 helped pay for the improvements.

Thursday's event included a ceremonial tree planting and dedication of tile-wall artwork created by students at Las Artes as part of a new "Pathway to Discovery" interpretive trail. A senior U.S. Commerce Department official said the UA BioPark is an example of "solid, bottom-up regional economic development strategies" that help communities to play to their strengths. "The economic crisis has changed our communities forever," said Matthew Erskine, acting assistant secretary for the U.S. Economic Development Administration. "We can't return to the status quo. ... Every community is finding its own answer, which is crucial," Erskine told about 200 event attendees.

UA President Ann Weaver Hart said the new biotech park is a critical part of the school's economic-development strategy, building on the UA's status as a top-tier research university. "This puts us in the position to be even stronger, and more proactive, in seeking answers to the biggest questions of our time," said Hart, who took the UA's helm in July. Noting that the UA's marquee technology spinoff, Ventana Medical Systems, is 25 years old, Hart said she's looking forward to seeing new buildings go up for biotech tenants. Mayor Jonathan Rothschild said the UA BioPark represents a step toward the future of Tucson as a "clean, science-technology-based community." Rothschild said the BioPark will become a key part of what he calls the "Southeast Economic Corridor," stretching from the UA Science and Technology Park to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, including the area around Tucson International Airport and the Port of Tucson. The mayor admired the site's progress but said he wants to see more, and soon. "I definitely expect by the summer to see some tall buildings here," he joked.

Bruce Wright, UA associate vice president for university research parks, said the adjacent 300-acre retail and residential development, The Bridges, already has brought hundreds of jobs with the opening of a Costco Wholesale store and a recently completed Walmart that is set open in the next few weeks. A housing development on the BioPark's west side also is in advanced planning stages, he said. But the UA is eager to "build vertically" as well, Wright said, noting that the state's biosciences- development road map has identified new biotech lab space as a key ingredient to grow the biosciences in Arizona and Tucson. Wright said the UA is actively marketing the site and is in serious discussions with a potential biotech tenant that would build its own standalone building.

The UA had originally aimed to build an anchor multistory biotech lab and office building by the end of 2013, Wright said. Infrastructure development was delayed for months while the UA settled a default of complex land-swap agreements by a homebuilding partnership. Wright said breaking ground in the middle of the recession in late 2009 didn't help matters, but if current tenant negotiations are fruitful, some building could start by the end of next year.

[kaneui]

To promote the future of professional soccer in Tucson, Pima County is spending $2M received from the Chicago White Sox spring training contract termination to convert five baseball fields north of Ajo Way at the Kino Sports Complex to permanent soccer venues--two of them seating 1,000 and 3,000 fans:


Pima County, FC Tucson gearing up for 2013 Desert Diamond Cup
tucsoncitizen.com
October 11, 2012

Pima County Supervisor Richard Elías joined FC Tucson soccer club partners Thursday, Oct. 11, to announce the Major League Soccer teams participating in the 2013 Desert Diamond Cup and Pima County’s plans to further improve soccer facilities at Kino Sports Complex. “Tucson needs to have a professional sports amenity we can all be proud of,” Elias said at a news conference in the lobby of the Pima County Administration Building. “This is about economic development and bringing new money into our community.” Pima County will invest $2 million to build five permanent soccer venues north of Ajo Way; two of them will be arenas that will seat 1,000 and 3,000 spectators.

Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry said that the $2 million comes out of the $5 million that the Chicago White Sox paid to terminate their contract with Pima County when they moved their spring training to Glendale. “Taxpayers aren’t paying this,” Huckelberry said. “This is thanks to the Chicago White Sox.” The work will mark the turning point of converting Kino Sports Complex from a baseball facility to a year-round multi-sports facility, he said. “It will be the premier facility within the region, and it will improve from there,” Huckelberry said.

Greg Foster, one of FC Tucson’s managing partners, said the private-public partnership between FC Tucson and Pima County has been critical to the success of the club and the Desert Diamond Cup. Major League Soccer notified FC Tucson last week that it is designating Tucson the “western hub of MLS preseason.” This is a development and branding concept that will lead to all MLS teams traveling to Tucson and Orlando in preseason, Foster said. Six MLS teams will be participating in 2013 spring training in central Florida, it was announced last week.


For full article: http://tucsoncitizen.com/pima-county-news/2012/10/11/pima-county-fc-tucson-gearing-up-for-2013-desert-diamond-cup/

[gozilla]

I created a new thread, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=201956

Got sick of all the negativity in this forum - the most NIMBIED forum in SkyscraperPage . It figures. Not only is Tucson one of the poorest cities in the U.S. It's also one of the ugliest and most depressing. I've made a living in this 'city' business for 50 long years all over the world and I've never ever met so much NIMBY's in my life. If you guys can afford to travel outside your cave (I doubt it), do it .

Market = Confidence.
Tucson Market = Negative Confidence, Corrupt Gov't, NIMBYS = Poor

[gozilla]

Gozilla don't hold your breath on thinking One Broadway will be more than seven stories in the future after it's built. They probably would have mentioned it by now, plus the top floors will have people living in them, and it's highly unlikely the residents will be OK with such construction that would disrupt their lives as in adding new floors. Looking at the drawing it looks like it will be a tall seven story, meaning it might have the hight of an eight or nine story building if the bottom two office floors have high ceilings.

Little known fact: The office building that holds the YMCA downtown had plans to build a 10 story tower on top of the parking garage. They used to have a model of it in the building's lobby, I saw it once soon after it was built, not sure if it's still in the lobby. I'm assuming it was never built for the same reasons that the second Unisorce tower was never built.

As far as hotels, I think that the city should have pushed for the Starpass Hotel to either have been built downtown or much closer to it. Here is this huge hotel in the middle of nowhere that is never busy due to it's location. They should have scrapped the golf course, and just built it downtown, it wouldn't be facing finacial troubles like it is today and probably would have added another high-rise to the skyline.

And I too think that the high speed rail would have a dedicated line. It doesn't make sense to do on exsisting rail lines, it would defeat the purpose of a high speed train. If I could ride on a train that got me to Phoeinx in 30 minutes, I would totally use it.

The reason Tucson is getting these 'limited' construction downtown is that your city is corrupt - good ol' boy/girl system. And the 5th/Congress Rialto proposed project will eventually be a failure...I see it as another La Placita Village. Downtown Tucson needs to stay away into converting downtown Tucson into a tourist attraction. I don't think the world would give a Rats Ass about Tucson's birthplace (the Great Wall of China, Pyramids of Giza or Roman Coliseum - Yes; Tucson Mission Garden - NO ). And stop extending 4th ave to downtown. Build more 10+ floor mixed used high rise downtown....you guys keep repeating the same fuckin mistake for about 50 years!

I like brand new dedicated HSR lines, btw.

It's only October but I like to share my NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTION FOR TUCSON.

Here it is: Starting 2013 and thereafter, I would like the city to give preference to NON-LOCAL developers. Here's the reason why - so things can get done and built ON TIME AND ON WHAT'S PROMISED.

Happy New Year everyone!

[gozilla]

....let me add, adding more floors to an existing building not just garages at the bottom has been down before .
...also it's possible to use existing rail lines with some of today's high speed rails...it's been done before. I prefer new lines because of the lack of jobs as a result of NIMBY's and your corrupt/inept local/state gov't.

I'll let you guys google it yourself with regards to my comments above. I'm so sick reading at the NIMBY comments in this forum I keep throwing up :haha: :haha: :haha:

[Ritarancher]

I created a new thread, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=201956

Got sick of all the negativity in this forum - the most NIMBIED forum in SkyscraperPage . It figures. Not only is Tucson one of the poorest cities in the U.S. It's also one of the ugliest and most depressing. I've made a living in this 'city' business for 50 long years all over the world and I've never ever met so much NIMBY's in my life. If you guys can afford to travel outside your cave (I doubt it), do it .

Market = Confidence.
Tucson Market = Negative Confidence, Corrupt Gov't, NIMBYS = Poor

Calm down and stop picking fights with people, we're all here for the development of downtown Tucson not to debate who is or is not a NIMBY. Little to nobody on this page is a Nimby (I remember somebody against Plaza Centro when it was 10 stories). So you've been working for 50+ years, OK, I get it. You are tired and old but you do not have to take out your anger on an group of people who are watching the development of Tucson.
Tucson may be one of the poorest cities in America but we have culture and heart and that is something that some cities only dream to have.

So if your tired of this thread, leave so we can go back to talking about downtown development.

[Anqrew]

The reason Tucson is getting these 'limited' construction downtown is that your city is corrupt - good ol' boy/girl system. And the 5th/Congress Rialto proposed project will eventually be a failure...I see it as another La Placita Village. Downtown Tucson needs to stay away into converting downtown Tucson into a tourist attraction. I don't think the world would give a Rats Ass about Tucson's birthplace (the Great Wall of China, Pyramids of Giza or Roman Coliseum - Yes; Tucson Mission Garden - NO ). And stop extending 4th ave to downtown. Build more 10+ floor mixed used high rise downtown....you guys keep repeating the same fuckin mistake for about 50 years!

I like brand new dedicated HSR lines, btw.

It's only October but I like to share my NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTION FOR TUCSON.

Here it is: Starting 2013 and thereafter, I would like the city to give preference to NON-LOCAL developers. Here's the reason why - so things can get done and built ON TIME AND ON WHAT'S PROMISED.

Happy New Year everyone!

How old are you, 15?

You think WE'RE nimbys? wow obviously you have never read the Arizona Daily Star comment board then...

i smell a TROLL. if you want to criticize the lack of development go blame the nimbys and the government, not us.

You keep saying "you guys need to do this" "you need to do this for your city" WE CANT DO ANYTHING, WERE JUST POSTERS ON A FORUM! WE ARE NOT CITY COUNCIL.

also i checked out your new thread. it seemed very immature. Tucson is not interested in adopting another cities identity. We are Tucson. Not Phoenix, not Portland, not San Francisco.

Don't know why you are complaining. Tucson has been in a development slump for decades and were now finally starting to see the momentum get going. Quit complaining and enjoy what we have.

[Anqrew]

I created a new thread, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=201956

Got sick of all the negativity in this forum - the most NIMBIED forum in SkyscraperPage . It figures. Not only is Tucson one of the poorest cities in the U.S. It's also one of the ugliest and most depressing. I've made a living in this 'city' business for 50 long years all over the world and I've never ever met so much NIMBY's in my life. If you guys can afford to travel outside your cave (I doubt it), do it .

Market = Confidence.
Tucson Market = Negative Confidence, Corrupt Gov't, NIMBYS = Poor

Sorry to break it to you. you're the only one spewing negativity here. If you think Tucson is Ugly and Depressing you obviously havent taken the time to enjoy the city and the wonderful things it has to offer.

[aznate27]

Sorry to break it to you. you're the only one spewing negativity here. If you think Tucson is Ugly and Depressing you obviously havent taken the time to enjoy the city and the wonderful things it has to offer.

THANK YOU ANGREW!! I think you expressed perfectly what everyone who has been a member of this thread for YEARS, not a couple weeks, has been thinking about gozilla's negativity! If he hates this thread so much, it's simple...leave.

[Jjs5056]

I am an east coast transplant currently living in Phoenix. I have only been to Tucson once, but love following this thread. There seems to be a lot of momentum and grassroots/organic growth within the downtown that is really exciting to see. Sure, there aren't any proposals for any monstrous skyscrapers right now, but these smaller scale developments are what will draw people back to the core and showcase downtown as a safe, exciting envronment will hopefully encourage more people to want to live down there, start businesses down there, etc.

That kind of growth is exactly what is needed to revitalize a downtown and make it successful. It's the kind of growth that doesn't seem to be happening in Phoenix at the moment- I'd rather see a proposal aimed at creating an urban scene within alleyways than one like the terrible high rise on Monroe that is going to line 3 of our streets with a huge parking garage.

My point is- carry on, Tucson. There is more to a downtown than skyscrapers. I'd love to see Arizona have several urban centes throughout the state with distinct personalities and offerings.

[gozilla]

Yes. The truth really hurts , huh? I'm not picking a fight. I'm just being honest and I got to get to know who you really are. I little criticism here and there. A handful of opinions. Then I'm a troll.

Not trying to ruin your thread. You guys carry on and I'll leave you alone peacefully. Don't mean to hurt you.

[gozilla]

Calm down and stop picking fights with people, we're all here for the development of downtown Tucson not to debate who is or is not a NIMBY. Little to nobody on this page is a Nimby (I remember somebody against Plaza Centro when it was 10 stories). So you've been working for 50+ years, OK, I get it. You are tired and old but you do not have to take out your anger on an group of people who are watching the development of Tucson.
Tucson may be one of the poorest cities in America but we have culture and heart and that is something that some cities only dream to have.

So if your tired of this thread, leave so we can go back to talking about downtown development.

Sorry about that Ritarancher. I'm not tired of this thread but I'll leave you guys alone. Peace, my friend.

[gozilla]

How old are you, 15?

You think WE'RE nimbys? wow obviously you have never read the Arizona Daily Star comment board then...

i smell a TROLL. if you want to criticize the lack of development go blame the nimbys and the government, not us.

You keep saying "you guys need to do this" "you need to do this for your city" WE CANT DO ANYTHING, WERE JUST POSTERS ON A FORUM! WE ARE NOT CITY COUNCIL.

also i checked out your new thread. it seemed very immature. Tucson is not interested in adopting another cities identity. We are Tucson. Not Phoenix, not Portland, not San Francisco.

Don't know why you are complaining. Tucson has been in a development slump for decades and were now finally starting to see the momentum get going. Quit complaining and enjoy what we have.

Awwwww. Listen kid, when you go out to the real world, you'll meet a lot of people like me and even worst. I see you can't handle constructive criticism. I'll peace out. All is well.

[gozilla]

THANK YOU ANGREW!! I think you expressed perfectly what everyone who has been a member of this thread for YEARS, not a couple weeks, has been thinking about gozilla's negativity! If he hates this thread so much, it's simple...leave.

Your wished will be filled. I'll leave in peace. I guess this thread is off limits for honest people. Hmmmm.

[gozilla]

Good point, if UP is having to build more lines themselves, there's no way they're going to let passenger trains use the tracks they have now.

To me, this is actually a blessing a in disguise. Having travelled on shared tracks on the East Coast, it's a nightmare. The second you get moving, you have to pull off on a spur to let another train by and passenger trains always have to yield.

Well Ted, sorry I called you a NIMBY. You're not. But these other kids in this forum are. You are the reasonable one. My apologies. You're alright. One of these days, you and I (and Patrick) will have some brewski and laughed about this.

I've been told that this thread is toxic. It is!

[Ted Lyons]

Dear everyone not named gozilla: Ignore is your friend.

[Anqrew]

Awwwww. Listen kid, when you go out to the real world, you'll meet a lot of people like me and even worst. I see you can't handle constructive criticism. I'll peace out. All is well.

im not kid, but maybe you are. i certainly speak with a degree of wisdom a lot higher than you are displaying and an understanding and respect of tucson and others you seem to lack. Constructive Criticism? Doesnt that involved GIVING ME advice? you were GIVING TUCSON advice. two different things. I AM NOT THE CITY OF TUCSON. So please save the patronizing for someone else. I've been in the real world plenty. Bye, you wont be missed. Go move to another city.

[Anqrew]

THANK YOU ANGREW!! I think you expressed perfectly what everyone who has been a member of this thread for YEARS, not a couple weeks, has been thinking about gozilla's negativity! If he hates this thread so much, it's simple...leave.

Thanks Nate, I usually avoid feeding the Trolls. But i had to tell this guy how it is. No doubt he will come back again and post something stupid. So lets all do ourselves a favor and block him like Ted suggested :)

[gozilla]

You guys are hilarious!

ok guys. Ignore Gozilla!

[gozilla]

btw guys, me and the rest of the folks at my office will continue reading this forum and some may even join in the conversation. It's fun to read people's confusing comments. This thread is our favorite.

[kaneui]

More details on the proposed Depot Plaza hotel:


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/DepotPlazahotelsite-Tucson.jpg
Scott Stiteler's new 130-room boutique hotel would be built on this pad above the Depot Plaza parking garage.
(photo: Downtown Tucsonan)


A Boutique Hotel May Join MLK, One North Fifth Apartments
By Teya Vitu
Downtown Tucsonan
October 15, 2012

Back in 2006, the talk was about Depot Plaza – demolish the Martin Luther King Jr. Apartments and build three towers with a mix of affordable and market-rate housing in a plaza setting. Depot Plaza is not a term heard much recently, even though two large structures and the underground Depot Plaza garage are in place: the new Martin Luther King Jr. Apartments and One North Fifth Apartments, which was a complete overhaul of the old MLK Apartments. What about the third tower, though?

Since 2007, developer Scott Stiteler has had a development agreement with the city, originally to build a five-story tower with 80-100 market-rate condos. Stiteler has had a constant presence on Congress Street, even though his designated pad – the paved patch in front of the new MLK Apartments – has seen more action as a street soccer pitch on 2nd Saturdays. In the mean time, Stiteler has focused his attentions on the buildings at three of the four corners of Congress Street and Fifth Avenue, just a half block to the south of the third tower pad. Stiteler owns the One North Fifth Apartments, which he converted from low-income senior housing into market-rate apartments, and he added the street retail, including Sparkroot and Sacred Machine. Stiteler also owns the Congress block across the street with Playground Lounge, HUB Restaurant & Ice Creamery and the soon-to-open Saint House. In addition, Stiteler is a primary investor in the Rialto Block, now home to the University of Arizona Mars and Beyond exhibition, but next year will house Diablo Burger and Proper, restaurants by two highly regarded Flagstaff restaurateurs.

All that has kept Stiteler more than occupied. Stiteler now is ready to move forward on the Depot Plaza pad on which he has had an option all these years. Out is the plan for market-rate condos. In is Stiteler’s intention to build a five-story, 130-room boutique hotel operated by a prominent international chain. He would not name the hotel chain because a deal is not in place yet but could be in a matter of weeks. “Downtown needs a hotel. That’s the short answer,” Stiteler said about his shift away from condos. He wants to start construction some time in 2013 and welcome the first guests somewhere around the end of 2014 or early 2015. Stiteler expects actual construction to take 18 months, but the start date depends on the city permitting process. “We’re well positioned” to start construction as soon as city permits are issued, Stiteler said. “We’ll work hard to finish by the end of 2014.”


For full article: http://www.downtowntucson.org/2012/10/a-boutique-hotel-may-join-mlk-one-north-fifth-apartments/

[southtucsonboy77]

btw guys, me and the rest of the folks at my office will continue reading this forum and some may even join in the conversation. It's fun to read people's confusing comments. This thread is our favorite.

Wow, I go away for a weekend and see the awful posts! I saw the thread jump to page 173 and assumed lots of new development info was posted...but no.

Anyhow, gozilla has the same passion that we all do...downtown development and SKYSCRAPERS. Extending the concept further, urbanism. If I recall, a few of my posts have expressed the frustration with these 4-6 rinky-dink "skyscrapers" that have been built, under-construction, or are proposed. Some are appropriate at their location, at their setting. Others are not (sorry to harp, but the Cadence still gets to me). But my March trip to D.C. changed my perspective. I love skyscrapers, but I love urbanism even more. D.C, for whatever reason, is capped at approx. 15 story buildings. Those are not truly "skyscrapers" just as our Tucson 6 story buildings are not. Yet, the urbanism that those D.C. buildings produced...with the streetscapes, bars, restaurants, and housing provided the urbanism vibe that lacks in cities that are building tall skyscrapers...like, uh-hum, Phoenix. There are huge sections of downtowns in larger metro areas such as San Jose, Sacramento, OK City, etc. that don't even have the downtown vibe that downtown Tucson CURRENTLY has in its present condition.

With all that said, although a true skyscraper has yet to emerge out of our beloved desert city since 1986, it is exciting to see all the development that is coming forth that will enhance our URBANISM experience. As Angrew once stated, downtown development has been stagnant for decades and to see these empty lots rise up is exciting in itself. If development in other middle sized cities such as OK City and Austin provide precedence, then these smaller infill developments and infusion of bars and restaurants will result in a long awaited skyscraper development. As for gozilla, I don't know what happened bro. I loved your passion, but then you went postal with your comments. I follow this thread religiously, and I wouldn't call anyone here a NIMBY or any other names. We're all individuals and it's just human nature to have some difference in opinion or different levels of thresholds of what is acceptable for downtown Tucson or not. Ultimately, we all want Tucson to succeed.

[gozilla]

Wow, I go away for a weekend and see the awful posts! I saw the thread jump to page 173 and assumed lots of new development info was posted...but no.

Anyhow, gozilla has the same passion that we all do...downtown development and SKYSCRAPERS. Extending the concept further, urbanism. If I recall, a few of my posts have expressed the frustration with these 4-6 rinky-dink "skyscrapers" that have been built, under-construction, or are proposed. Some are appropriate at their location, at their setting. Others are not (sorry to harp, but the Cadence still gets to me). But my March trip to D.C. changed my perspective. I love skyscrapers, but I love urbanism even more. D.C, for whatever reason, is capped at approx. 15 story buildings. Those are not truly "skyscrapers" just as our Tucson 6 story buildings are not. Yet, the urbanism that those D.C. buildings produced...with the streetscapes, bars, restaurants, and housing provided the urbanism vibe that lacks in cities that are building tall skyscrapers...like, uh-hum, Phoenix. There are huge sections of downtowns in larger metro areas such as San Jose, Sacramento, OK City, etc. that don't even have the downtown vibe that downtown Tucson CURRENTLY has in its present condition.

With all that said, although a true skyscraper has yet to emerge out of our beloved desert city since 1986, it is exciting to see all the development that is coming forth that will enhance our URBANISM experience. As Angrew once stated, downtown development has been stagnant for decades and to see these empty lots rise up is exciting in itself. If development in other middle sized cities such as OK City and Austin provide precedence, then these smaller infill developments and infusion of bars and restaurants will result in a long awaited skyscraper development. As for gozilla, I don't know what happened bro. I loved your passion, but then you went postal with your comments. I follow this thread religiously, and I wouldn't call anyone here a NIMBY or any other names. We're all individuals and it's just human nature to have some difference in opinion or different levels of thresholds of what is acceptable for downtown Tucson or not. Ultimately, we all want Tucson to succeed.

Thanks Bro. Well said.

[aznate27]

Another article about the hotel proposal for 5th/Congress...

Plan could put hotel downtown without taxpayers footing the bill
Project envisions restaurants, bars; limited public financing is sought


October 14, 2012 12:00 am • Darren DaRonco Arizona Daily Star

Downtown Tucson could see its first hotel in more than 30 years - and unlike other recent hotel plans, taxpayers won't be paying most of the bill.

What's more, the project has nothing to do with the Tucson Convention Center nor does it depend on Rio Nuevo funding.

Developer Scott Stiteler, manager of Tucson Urban LLC, is pitching plans for a 130-room, six-story hotel as a centerpiece for an ambitious redevelopment of the downtown entertainment district in the area around Fifth Avenue and Congress Street.

In addition to the $19 million hotel, his plans call for renovations of existing buildings and two new developments to accommodate up to seven restaurants, two bars, a workspace for entrepreneurs and micro-enterprises, and retail space.

The construction cost for the whole package is nearly $32 million, with most of the money coming from the developer and an $8 million federal loan.

Stiteler also hopes to get an eight-year property-tax exemption from the city.

The hotel, to be operated by "one of the world's largest hotel companies," would be built over the existing Depot Plaza parking garage, he said.

"In a community of 1 million people and a downtown that has a lot of momentum, it sure seems like the timing is right to build a downtown hotel," he said.

With the modern streetcar, student housing being built at Plaza Centro and other downtown improvements in recent years, Stiteler said Tucson has been on the radar of hotel companies for more than a year.

Stiteler expects to announce the hotel company within the next two months.

"We haven't formally committed. We have more than one (interested) and they are all mid-priced, boutique" hotels, he said. "It should be a wonderful fit for the first hotel in downtown Tucson."

Stiteler said the restaurant and retail portion of the project could be finished in 2013, while the hotel and some residential units would be finished in the late summer or early fall of 2014.

He hopes the project will transform the Fifth and Congress area into a culinary destination comparable to those in other cities around the nation.

"When I go to cities and want to go out, I'll often pick a neighborhood that has a lot of restaurants and walk around and make my decision when I get there," he said. "So I am hopeful we can create that walkability downtown … that's crucial to the success of a vibrant city."

But before any of this becomes a reality, he needs a little help from the city of Tucson.

Financing still difficult

Stiteler said that since banks are still reluctant to loan money to mixed-use developments, he is turning to the city's new tax incentive program to get the financing and tax breaks to make the plan possible.

The $8 million federal Housing and Urban Development loan, which would come at favorable rates, is channeled through the city, and would make it easier to get private funding for the rest of the cost.

Stiteler is also seeking a Government Property Lease Excise Tax, which would allow those properties to operate tax-free for up to eight years while they build a cash flow.

The idea is to give businesses a little help so they can eventually be long-term revenue producers for the city.

Last Tuesday, the City Council voted to order an independent financial analysis of the plan to see what incentives the project qualifies for.

This isn't the first deal Stiteler has tried to work with the city, although the last effort didn't end well.

In 2009 Stiteler and the city entered into preliminary agreement for the development of the east end of downtown. One of the terms called for the city to pay him about $1 million if the parties couldn't agree on a final plan.

When no final agreement could be reached, the city had to pay off. Part of the settlement included giving Stiteler 100 parking spaces at the Depot Plaza garage.

Stiteler said that was a complicated deal, and it has nothing to do with this project.

He said this time around everything is much clearer because of the new city process, and he wants the entire arrangement to be transparent and a good deal for the city, himself and the taxpayer.

Councilman Steve Kozachik said that, unlike previous hotel projects which put the city on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars, this project is primarily funded by the developer and poses little risk to taxpayers.

"I expect it to be a really successful project," Kozachik said. "We need a hotel downtown."

possible sticking point

One potential roadblock for the hotel could be that the proposed site, the Depot Plaza parking garage, is part of a dispute between the city and Rio Nuevo over who owes how much to whom, and who owns what at the downtown garage.

Rio Nuevo Chairman Fletcher McCusker said the Fifth and Congress project will be discussed at the next Rio Nuevo board meeting.

"Being able to settle on that garage is a big piece before Scott can move forward," McCusker said.

He said the district is working on a "universal settlement" with the city to resolve all differences at once. Lawyers on both sides are still hashing out the details, and more information could be released soon if an agreement is reached, he said.

McCusker said he wants to see the project move forward because it would be a boon to downtown development.

"I think it's an extraordinary project," he said. "Scott's a game-changer downtown … and we should try to do everything we can to assist him."

Contact reporter Darren DaRonco at 573-4243 or ddaronco@azstarnet.com

[flypower]

How old are you, 15?

You think WE'RE nimbys? wow obviously you have never read the Arizona Daily Star comment board then...

i smell a TROLL. if you want to criticize the lack of development go blame the nimbys and the government, not us.

You keep saying "you guys need to do this" "you need to do this for your city" WE CANT DO ANYTHING, WERE JUST POSTERS ON A FORUM! WE ARE NOT CITY COUNCIL.

also i checked out your new thread. it seemed very immature. Tucson is not interested in adopting another cities identity. We are Tucson. Not Phoenix, not Portland, not San Francisco.

Don't know why you are complaining. Tucson has been in a development slump for decades and were now finally starting to see the momentum get going. Quit complaining and enjoy what we have.

heyy im 15.... and ive been here for some time :P

[southtucsonboy77]

Thanks Bro. Well said.

No problem. I did appreciate the link you provided about the environmental activist who just past away. May she rest in peace. But man, my blood boiled when the Star was praising her for having a lead role in stopping the proposed crosstown freeway back in the 80s. :hell:

Do they not realize the economic damage that was inflicted on our community for NOT not supporting and building that much needed infrastructure? Its like Back to the Future part 2, that course of action in the past had negative results for the future. This was a Biff moment in Tucson history. I want to note that I'm not condemnng the article for noting her life, activism, and her involvement in stopping the freeway. I'm condemning the praise (and somewhat joy) that the article had for the freeway not succeeding. (That's how I read it.)

Pending on the location and setting, the degree and amount of freeways differ. For the Tucson area, one measly crosstown freeway is all we need. ONE! Not a Phx loop system, not a L.A. clone...one crosstown freeway. Even the City of Fresno had the foresight to build one. Even bankrupt Stockton, CA has one. One crosstown freeway would not label Tucson a "freeway city". What makes it even worse, without the crosstown freeway we still have people complaining about the improvements planned for Grant, Broadway, and 22nd St...key east/west corridors that transport Tucsonans 'cross town!

Sorry, back to my point: the decision to not build that crosstown freeway has greatly contributed in Tucson's current economic state and its ability to bounce back from it. I truly believe that. To read an article out of our local newspaper on what a wonderful job an individual did to accomplish something so damaging to our region was a slap in the face...and its truly frustrating because it only encourages more illogical activism. 2012 and we're the 6th poorest metro area in the nation. Public Management/Economic Development 101: Great infrastructure equals economic prosperity.

[Ritarancher]

I've been noticing that over the last few months some projects that have been built, proposed or downsized and these other things.
1) gozilla you mentioned that we need national contractors coming to Tucson. I feel you, down at main gate square Tucson is building an entirely new skyline and all of the new towers are national contractors and they did (most of them) not wait to build because they needed funds. You also mentioned that Tucson is the poorest city in the nation (not the poorest but you get the point) and by going local we promote job growth here in Tucson. A healthy downtown comes from a healthy city (it also happens that within city limits, Tucson has the bad sides of town and where the rich live is in unincorporated Pima County). Imagine if Peach Properties grew large enough that they became more national and built a fine, tall, establishment here in downtown while creating good paying jobs. BTW it doesn't have to be Peach properties that was just an example of a Tucson business that can grow up.

2) Currently local developers are tight on cash. Where is Rio Nuevo while this is happening? The proposed Armory was downgraded 2 stories (on a very nice looking building) because a lack of funds. Rio Nuevo seriously has no part in downtown anymore and their funds can be better spent supporting local developers. Rio Nuevo better be building us a huge amphitheater where the Tucson origins is supposed to be or else they should have NO excuse to not support these cash tight local developers.

3) Where is Rio Nuevo in the restoration of some pretty bad looking buildings? There are some building in downtown (not to point fingers but... CITY HALL, PIMA FEDERAL SERVICES BUILDING, AT&T ANTENNA THING....) that need a makeover or cleaning.

[Thirsty]

What makes it even worse, without the crosstown freeway we still have people complaining about the improvements planned for Grant, Broadway, and 22nd St...key east/west corridors that transport Tucsonans 'cross town!

I seems to me the people who gripe the most about Tucson live out in the county. At least that's what I've gathered from reading the azstarnet comments over the years.

Complaining endlessly about how a city you don't live in spends the taxes you don't pay on roads you never drive on is how people pass the time around here. It probably is the only thing driving ad revenue to the newspaper. ;)

[Ted Lyons]

I seems to me the people who gripe the most about Tucson live out in the county. At least that's what I've gathered from reading the azstarnet comments over the years.

Complaining endlessly about how a city you don't live in spends the taxes you don't pay on roads you never drive on is how people pass the time around here. It probably is the only thing driving ad revenue to the newspaper. ;)

Sadly, "This is why I live in the County" always ends the rants on the ADS website. Ideally, those people would preface their crap with that statement.

[gozilla]

No problem. I did appreciate the link you provided about the environmental activist who just past away. May she rest in peace. But man, my blood boiled when the Star was praising her for having a lead role in stopping the proposed crosstown freeway back in the 80s. :hell:

Do they not realize the economic damage that was inflicted on our community for NOT not supporting and building that much needed infrastructure? Its like Back to the Future part 2, that course of action in the past had negative results for the future. This was a Biff moment in Tucson history. I want to note that I'm not condemnng the article for noting her life, activism, and her involvement in stopping the freeway. I'm condemning the praise (and somewhat joy) that the article had for the freeway not succeeding. (That's how I read it.)

Pending on the location and setting, the degree and amount of freeways differ. For the Tucson area, one measly crosstown freeway is all we need. ONE! Not a Phx loop system, not a L.A. clone...one crosstown freeway. Even the City of Fresno had the foresight to build one. Even bankrupt Stockton, CA has one. One crosstown freeway would not label Tucson a "freeway city". What makes it even worse, without the crosstown freeway we still have people complaining about the improvements planned for Grant, Broadway, and 22nd St...key east/west corridors that transport Tucsonans 'cross town!

Sorry, back to my point: the decision to not build that crosstown freeway has greatly contributed in Tucson's current economic state and its ability to bounce back from it. I truly believe that. To read an article out of our local newspaper on what a wonderful job an individual did to accomplish something so damaging to our region was a slap in the face...and its truly frustrating because it only encourages more illogical activism. 2012 and we're the 6th poorest metro area in the nation. Public Management/Economic Development 101: Great infrastructure equals economic prosperity.

Hey man, you and I are in the same page! Don't mean any disrespect with that anti-freeway political activist but Tucson with at least no crosstown freeway really did had a factor in Tucson's tepid economic growth, IMHO.

I think of all the UA graduates working 5-10 yrs in a cafe. I think of all the hungry young kids not able to eat meals 3 times a day. I think of the moms and dads not able to make ends meet. It's nice to have a unique city but at least every city should have the infrastructure and amenities to move forward.

Not having at least one crosstown freeway is costing the taxpayers more $$$ by implementing all those temporary 'patches'. Tucson probably doesn't even need to expand our current freeways of Broadway, Oracle, Speedway, 22nd st etc... , should a crosstown freeway exist! I heared a proposal to get rid of making left turns at Grant/Oracle and forced vehicles to just U-turn half a block from that intersection (silly).

Hate to be political but we need gov't to step up the plate. We tried to depend on the rich the last 20-30 years but what we end up with is at least $21 trillion to about $60 trillion of the wealthy's tax cuts parked in a foreign bank account and an infrastructure that's dying.

Thanks for your honest, kind and professional thoughts.

...let me add, somewhere in the late 2000's. the former Tucson Transporation Director was by a KGUN9 reporter what to do with Oracle Rd since we don't have a crosstown freeway, he (Director) said something like 'Well, we'll gonna have to expand to 10 or more lanes ... thereafter, laughing with disappointment and sarcasm"

[gozilla]

I seems to me the people who gripe the most about Tucson live out in the county. At least that's what I've gathered from reading the azstarnet comments over the years.

Complaining endlessly about how a city you don't live in spends the taxes you don't pay on roads you never drive on is how people pass the time around here. It probably is the only thing driving ad revenue to the newspaper. ;)

I think so, Thirsty. I believe those azstarnet comments came from paid political operatives someplace outside Tucson (both dems and repubs...but more repubs). It's pretty obvious ... these Repubs would wake up very early in the morning and post all day long! Hmmmmm.... One of the commenters even admitted he is paid for by the Dems. But most of these are definitely paid Neo-Repubs con men (and women) public relations propagandists.

Azstarnet seems to have gone T-pub (Tea Farty) , at least in the comment section, ever since it was bought out about five years ago. Some moderator in AzStar has been censoring opinions that favor liberals and moderate Republicans. They would even go to the point of canceling accounts that are too good to counter argue the irrational T-pubs. So ironic considering the T-farts are deep into complete freedom of speech.

[gozilla]

I've been noticing that over the last few months some projects that have been built, proposed or downsized and these other things.
1) gozilla you mentioned that we need national contractors coming to Tucson. I feel you, down at main gate square Tucson is building an entirely new skyline and all of the new towers are national contractors and they did (most of them) not wait to build because they needed funds. You also mentioned that Tucson is the poorest city in the nation (not the poorest but you get the point) and by going local we promote job growth here in Tucson. A healthy downtown comes from a healthy city (it also happens that within city limits, Tucson has the bad sides of town and where the rich live is in unincorporated Pima County). Imagine if Peach Properties grew large enough that they became more national and built a fine, tall, establishment here in downtown while creating good paying jobs. BTW it doesn't have to be Peach properties that was just an example of a Tucson business that can grow up.

2) Currently local developers are tight on cash. Where is Rio Nuevo while this is happening? The proposed Armory was downgraded 2 stories (on a very nice looking building) because a lack of funds. Rio Nuevo seriously has no part in downtown anymore and their funds can be better spent supporting local developers. Rio Nuevo better be building us a huge amphitheater where the Tucson origins is supposed to be or else they should have NO excuse to not support these cash tight local developers.

3) Where is Rio Nuevo in the restoration of some pretty bad looking buildings? There are some building in downtown (not to point fingers but... CITY HALL, PIMA FEDERAL SERVICES BUILDING, AT&T ANTENNA THING....) that need a makeover or cleaning.

Good Point! And Good Ideas! Amphitheater in the Tucson Origins is a good idea.

Look, I have no problem with helping our local business but there needs to be a reasonable balance. Because at the end, Tucsonans will be affected by this. My 'irrational' rants are based on my anger of the city focusing too much on local business over the last 50 years. Tucson needs to be more friendly to 'foreign investments' (foreign as in outside Tucson, non-local). And look were we end up now - Poor.

Tucson has no reason to be poor. It has almost perfect natural conditions and a rich history! Tucson doesn't have earthquakes, hurricanes, blizzards etc.. Tucson has a rich history that it can brag about (but not at the level as the Great Wall of China or Eiffel Tower).

...The Sentinel Plaza, that's another building that got finished on time ... probably sooner, if it weren't for that sleaze bag local developer at the Mercado. The Sentinel Plaza is a nice looking building, btw. I wouldn't mind if they build more of those in an urban district.

[southtucsonboy77]

On the "local" vs. "national" firms issue...especially from what we've seen from 1999 to today...there has to be a balance and each project has its opportunities. For example, the Thrifty lot debacle. WTF happened there? A "local" firm in which the COT bent over backwards to assist. At the time, IMO, the City felt it was doing the right and popular thing (hiring the local firm, not the tearing down of the old portion of a building) in expediting and hooking Bourn up. In hindsight, despite the economy, that was a bad idea. Yet, as we see today the local firms like Peach Properties are doing a really good job. In regards to national firms, if an outside agency has an interest in development in the Tucson region, man, let them be. It's a free market. Capstone came into town and patiently waited for the NIMBY resistence of the West Univ. neighborhood assoc. to fall flat and are currently in construction. They won my respect. Without a doubt do I support the local firms and favor them. But I'm not gonna complain when a national firm has interest in Tucson and (perhaps) have a better project than a local on a specific development. Too, I do hope they hire local sub-contractors, but the amount and % is beyond my scope...I just know that its usually more efficient to hire local sub-contractors anyway...so I don't join the mad panic when a national firm does win a job.

[southtucsonboy77]

This is a neat honor.

http://azstarnet.com/entertainment/blogs/caliente-tuned-in/tucson-on-list-of-uk-newspaper-s-six-cool-u/article_56054b3e-16f3-11e2-8ce8-0019bb2963f4.html

The Guardian newspaper in London included Tucson in its list of six cool U.S. cities worth visiting outside of Los Angeles and New York.

In an article last Friday, the paper wrote that "Summers here are fiercely hot ... but winters are mild ... and spring – which begins in February – is a wonderful time to visit."

Events cited included the Fiesta de los Vaqueros rodeo and parade in February, Summerhaven on Mount Lemmon, Saguaro National Park, Fox Tucson Theatre and Kartchner Caverns state park.

Also on the Guardian's list: Lewisburg, W.Va.; Portland, Maine; San Luis Obispo, Calif.; Great Barrington, Mass.; and Detroit, Mich.

[IMBY]

I created a new thread, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=201956

Got sick of all the negativity in this forum - the most NIMBIED forum in SkyscraperPage . It figures. Not only is Tucson one of the poorest cities in the U.S. It's also one of the ugliest and most depressing. I've made a living in this 'city' business for 50 long years all over the world and I've never ever met so much NIMBY's in my life. If you guys can afford to travel outside your cave (I doubt it), do it .

Market = Confidence.
Tucson Market = Negative Confidence, Corrupt Gov't, NIMBYS = Poor

I'm planning on moving down to Tucson next year and I was curious about the Nimby's in Tucson, myself.

I would love to live around that jewel of a park, Reid Park, once I move there, but, curiously, where is the mid-rise or even low-rise housing lining this great park, where you can get a nice view of the park, from a balcony? Nothing along 22nd street, only single family detached homes.

I see there's a big historic area north of the park, Sam Hughes, and I got to wondering if there's some Nimby's up in that area who "want that park all to themselves" and reject any proposals to build more density around that wonderful park.

So, a hypothetical question, if I were a developer, with unlimited funds, and wished to tear down some of those houses along 22nd street, facing the park, say put up an elongated 7-10 story condo building, how many loops would I have to jump to get that built?

[Ted Lyons]

Is the troll trying to converse with himself now? :koko:

[Anqrew]

I'm planning on moving down to Tucson next year and I was curious about the Nimby's in Tucson, myself.

I would love to live around that jewel of a park, Reid Park, once I move there, but, curiously, where is the mid-rise or even low-rise housing lining this great park, where you can get a nice view of the park, from a balcony? Nothing along 22nd street, only single family detached homes.

I see there's a big historic area north of the park, Sam Hughes, and I got to wondering if there's some Nimby's up in that area who "want that park all to themselves" and reject any proposals to build more density around that wonderful park.

So, a hypothetical question, if I were a developer, with unlimited funds, and wished to tear down some of those houses along 22nd street, facing the park, say put up an elongated 7-10 story condo building, how many loops would I have to jump to get that built?

I don't imagine something like that happening on 22nd street. First of all thats not a very desirable location to live, so i dont think a developer would want to build there. Which is probably why it hasnt happened. Sam Hughes residents dont really utilize Reid Park, they all go to Himmel Park. Reid park is way to massive and large to be designated to a single neighborhood. Reid park is basically Tucsons version of central park, everyone from the city goes there. Thats just not an area of town where density is being encouraged in my opinion. Not sure about the zoning laws in those neighborhoods.

[IMBY]

I have done some research, living close to Reid Park, and all I seem to come up with is the Citation Garden Co-ops on Jones and Palos Verde, which I investigated on my last trip down there, and that which I can afford. Can't understand why they didn't build that complex closer to the park.

I used to live a block away from Encanto Park in Phoenix, which is like the central park of Phoenix, and there's similarities between the two parks.

But it appears a bit strange to me why there hasn't been more density built around that park.

[gozilla]

I have done some research, living close to Reid Park, and all I seem to come up with is the Citation Garden Co-ops on Jones and Palos Verde, which I investigated on my last trip down there, and that which I can afford. Can't understand why they didn't build that complex closer to the park.

I used to live a block away from Encanto Park in Phoenix, which is like the central park of Phoenix, and there's similarities between the two parks.

But it appears a bit strange to me why there hasn't been more density built around that park.

IMBY, there's one individual that I know that's considering building a mid-rise condo complex at 22nd st just across Reid. It's sensible to build one at 22nd. Not far away there's a large student housing complex at 22nd being built in an 'undesireable' place, the Retreat. There's also ,The Bridges, a biotech/housing/retail infill project that's under construction (there's a Costco and soon to be opened mega-Walmart). That project is located in an undesireable neighborhood.

btw, not far away from The Bridges, are good bars/restaurants at 4th ave. north of 22nd.

see Kaneui's page, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4004052&postcount=788 .

[gozilla]

On the "local" vs. "national" firms issue...especially from what we've seen from 1999 to today...there has to be a balance and each project has its opportunities. For example, the Thrifty lot debacle. WTF happened there? A "local" firm in which the COT bent over backwards to assist. At the time, IMO, the City felt it was doing the right and popular thing (hiring the local firm, not the tearing down of the old portion of a building) in expediting and hooking Bourn up. In hindsight, despite the economy, that was a bad idea. Yet, as we see today the local firms like Peach Properties are doing a really good job. In regards to national firms, if an outside agency has an interest in development in the Tucson region, man, let them be. It's a free market. Capstone came into town and patiently waited for the NIMBY resistence of the West Univ. neighborhood assoc. to fall flat and are currently in construction. They won my respect. Without a doubt do I support the local firms and favor them. But I'm not gonna complain when a national firm has interest in Tucson and (perhaps) have a better project than a local on a specific development. Too, I do hope they hire local sub-contractors, but the amount and % is beyond my scope...I just know that its usually more efficient to hire local sub-contractors anyway...so I don't join the mad panic when a national firm does win a job.

I'm hoping that local developer interested in building that proposed boutique hotel besides the MLK apts would happen on time. Is this going to be another fruitless 10 year proposal from a local developer? From what I've read, he's still seeking more $$$ from a bank to build that hotel.

I believe this is the third boutique hotel that's been proposed downtown...there's that Hampton Inn proposed by Bourne and another one at the Mercado. Early 2000's were good years for easy credit and those were the years when these same local developers where given sweet deals. I doubt these same developers would get enough loans from a bank today.

[Ted Lyons]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1448681562/public-brew-house-and-coffee

Above is a link to a Kickstarter project for a nanobrewery/coffeehouse located in the Charles O. Brown house at 40 West Broadway. The project sounds very community focused and could be a great addition to a less busy area downtown.

[kaneui]

Thanks to developer Scott Stiteler's vision and Tucson's re-energized downtown, these successful Flagstaff restauranteurs skipped Phoenix and leased space in the Rialto Block for three new dining options set to open early next year:


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/RialtoBlock-Tucson.jpg
Two Flagstaff restaurants and a bar will go into the Rialto Building adjoining the Rialto Theatre.
(photo: Downtown Tucsonan)


The Flagstaff Connection Hits Downtown’s Dining Scene
By Teya Vitu
Downtown Tucsonan
October 18, 2012

You’ve heard of Flagstaff’s restaurant renaissance in just the past few years? Well, two of the culinary poster children in Lumberjack country are bringing their great eats to the eastern edge of Downtown Tucson. Two Flagstaff restaurants and a bar will go into the Rialto Building adjoining the Rialto Theatre. Proper, Diablo Burger and Good Oak Bar will go into the Rialto Building across from Hotel Congress once the University of Arizona Mars and Beyond exhibition wraps up at the end of October. The hopes are to have Proper and Diablo Burger open some time in February with Good Oak following a few months later.

Diablo Burger will possibly be familiar to any Tucsonan who’s made the summer drive to cool down in Flagstaff since March 2, 2009. It’s been named Best Burger in Flagstaff every year since in the Arizona Daily Sun. And in October 2010, Diablo Burger was the Arizona entry for USA Today’s “51 Great Burger Joints Across the USA.” Proper is a new concept for the man behind Flagstaff’s Brix Restaurant and Wine Bar and Criollo Latin Kitchen. Conde Naste magazine named Brix one of the 95 Hottest Restaurants in the World. These Flagstaff eateries are the darlings of Arizona Highways magazine. Brix made the magazine’s annual Best Restaurants feature in 2008, Criollo followed in 2011, Diablo Burger in 2012, joined this year by Tucson’s own DOWNTOWN Kitchen + Cocktails and Maynard’s Market & Kitchen.

Now restaurateurs Paul Moir and Derrick Widmark are ready to branch out to Tucson. Moir was first looking at Fort Collins, Colo., as expansion territory, and Widmark thought Phoenix would be the logical place for his second Diablo Burger. “My original thinking, which turned out to be wrong (or at least ill-timed),” Widmark said, “was that Phoenix was the right place for our second restaurant because so many Phoenicians knew about DB from visiting Flagstaff. But if you are into the energy of a real downtown, as I am, Phoenix is a tough fit.”


“When I lived in Tucson in the early 1990s, Downtown was not a place you went,” Paul Moir recalled. “It certainly wasn’t a dining destination. When I drove down there the first time now, my jaw dropped. I was really impressed.”


For full article: http://www.downtowntucson.org/2012/10/the-flagstaff-connection-hits-downtowns-dining-scene/

[kaneui]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1448681562/public-brew-house-and-coffee

Above is a link to a Kickstarter project for a nanobrewery/coffeehouse located in the Charles O. Brown house at 40 West Broadway. The project sounds very community focused and could be a great addition to a less busy area downtown.

^This would only add to the growing number of local brewpubs and coffeehouses, as evidenced by this upcoming event:

Heard About the Tucson Coffee Crawl?
Posted by Adam Borowitz
Tucson Weekly
October 17, 2012

If you're into the caffeinated lifestyle, this upcoming event is for you.

Cartel Coffee Lab, eXo Roast Co., Sparkroot, Caffe Luce, Yellow Brick Coffee, Adventure Coffee Roasting and Brewd Coffee Lounge have already signed up to participate in the Tucson Coffee Crawl on Saturday, Nov. 10. Each stop will provide something coffee-related - classes, tastings, tours - and, as far as I can tell, it's free.


on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TucsonCoffeeCrawl

[IMBY]

IMBY, there's one individual that I know that's considering building a mid-rise condo complex at 22nd st just across Reid. It's sensible to build one at 22nd. Not far away there's a large student housing complex at 22nd being built in an 'undesireable' place, the Retreat. There's also ,The Bridges, a biotech/housing/retail infill project that's under construction (there's a Costco and soon to be opened mega-Walmart). That project is located in an undesireable neighborhood.

btw, not far away from The Bridges, are good bars/restaurants at 4th ave. north of 22nd.

see Kaneui's page, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4004052&postcount=788 .

Thanks so much for that link, very interesting and encouraging! And that there's consideration being given to develop something close to Reid Park.

I understand the Julia Keenan neighborhood doesn't have the best reputation but all it takes is a pioneering developer, with some vision, and as the saying goes: There goes the neighborhood! I have a friend, living in Tucson, who's told me she'll never visit me I move into that neighborhood!

Here, in Las Vegas, some daring, risk-taking developers developed 2 condo/loft complexes in one of the worst, crime-ridden downtown neighborhoods, East Fremont, home to older 30's, 40's motels, which are filled with weekly rental type of people. As I saw these complexes developed, I couldn't imagine anyone in their right mind buying in there, and as they're going full tilt toward urbanizing downtown Las Vegas, as I pass by there, I'm seeing more lights on in that complex, true pioneers are moving in there, and I'm sure, accosted by panhandlers/the homeless on their way to work everyday!

All it takes is the right developer to get the ball rolling!

[aznate27]

IMBY, there's one individual that I know that's considering building a mid-rise condo complex at 22nd st just across Reid. It's sensible to build one at 22nd. Not far away there's a large student housing complex at 22nd being built in an 'undesireable' place, the Retreat. There's also ,The Bridges, a biotech/housing/retail infill project that's under construction (there's a Costco and soon to be opened mega-Walmart). That project is located in an undesireable neighborhood.

btw, not far away from The Bridges, are good bars/restaurants at 4th ave. north of 22nd.

see Kaneui's page, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4004052&postcount=788 .

The Bridges and the Retreat are not exactly in the same neighborhood as Reid Park. Anqrew was talking about the "undesireable" area directly south and on the boarder to Reid Park on 22nd Street between Country Club and Alvernon, not 2 to 3 miles west of it where The Bridges and The Retreat are located.

[aznate27]

I have done some research, living close to Reid Park, and all I seem to come up with is the Citation Garden Co-ops on Jones and Palos Verde, which I investigated on my last trip down there, and that which I can afford. Can't understand why they didn't build that complex closer to the park.

I used to live a block away from Encanto Park in Phoenix, which is like the central park of Phoenix, and there's similarities between the two parks.

But it appears a bit strange to me why there hasn't been more density built around that park.

The neighborhoods that boarder Reid Park are well established. The only high-rise that boarders the park is the nine story Double Tree Hotel on Alvernon between 22nd and Broadway and that's been there forever. With the exception of 22nd Street and a portion of Country Club north of 22nd, the homes that boarder the park are in the $200,000 range and higer and some areas are condsidered historic. People that would not be friendly to high-rise developement around the park, and to be honest, I don't think Tucsonans in general would like it, not because they are NIMBY'S, but it's not Central Park NYC, and shouldn't look like it. I like tall too, but I also like the Reid Park area just as it is now. It has a small city feel to it that I think people here find charming. Besides, the park isn't that big, you can ride your bike around it in like 15 minutes.

We can't just build high-rises and skyscrapers anywhere in the city just so we can have a cool skyline. There are plenty of areas in Tucson for tall buildings, but around Reid Park isn't one of them. You can't just decide to tear down homes like you mentioned before to develop and change a neighborhood, people live in those homes. The area south of 22nd is called Barrio Centro, you may find that area undesirable, but the people that live in that area might feel differently. I lived in Phoenix and Los Angeles, believe me, that area isn't that bad at all, I've been in and seen a whole hell of a lot worse.

[gozilla]

The Bridges and the Retreat are not exactly in the same neighborhood as Reid Park. Anqrew was talking about the "undesireable" area directly south and on the boarder to Reid Park on 22nd Street between Country Club and Alvernon, not 2 to 3 miles west of it where The Bridges and The Retreat are located.

aznate27, thanks for your kind response. Undersireable is undesireable regardless of location. Downtown used to be 'undersireable' , now it's becoming more and more 'desireable'. If the residents south of Reid would want to convert their undersireable place into a desireable place and a developer wants to build a nice mid-rise condo/apt, so be it. Personally, all of 22nd ave needs to be converted to a desireable place (along with Stone Ave. parts of Oracle Rd, Speedway, Broadway etc..). I'd love to see a mid-rise apt by Reid regardless if it's the size of a Central Park or not.

[Anqrew]

http://tucsonlevel.com/parents/
http://tucsonlevel.com/assets/update_10.11.12.jpg

With five months of construction complete, Level is truly taking shape and already redefining the Tucson skyline. The completed ninth floor concrete slab provides spectacular views from 100+ feet creating buzz for the highly anticipated rooftop resort. Viewers can now more easily envision the building’s impressive stature and presence within the campus community.

Many of the initial critical construction milestones have already been achieved:

70% of the entire building’s concrete is already in place
Level 2 plumbing is in progress
Level 3 framing is near completion
Trade installation will continue at the lower levels as crews establish an installation routine to continue up for the replicated floors maximizing efficiency
Level’s exceptional progress to date is the result of the hard work and dedication of the 50+ construction professionals working daily on the project along with the oversight of our seasoned development team.

From here to the Penthouse Level, our General Contractor, UEB will continue to emphasize quality craftsmanship and timely progress. Follow this link to view some of their recent projects: http://www.uebbuilders.com/projects/3/1.html

EDIT:
from the above website: here is a live cam: http://www.uebbuilders.com/webcams/tyndall2.html

[aznate27]

http://tucsonlevel.com/parents/
http://tucsonlevel.com/assets/update_10.11.12.jpg

With five months of construction complete, Level is truly taking shape and already redefining the Tucson skyline. The completed ninth floor concrete slab provides spectacular views from 100+ feet creating buzz for the highly anticipated rooftop resort. Viewers can now more easily envision the building’s impressive stature and presence within the campus community.

Many of the initial critical construction milestones have already been achieved:

70% of the entire building’s concrete is already in place
Level 2 plumbing is in progress
Level 3 framing is near completion
Trade installation will continue at the lower levels as crews establish an installation routine to continue up for the replicated floors maximizing efficiency
Level’s exceptional progress to date is the result of the hard work and dedication of the 50+ construction professionals working daily on the project along with the oversight of our seasoned development team.

From here to the Penthouse Level, our General Contractor, UEB will continue to emphasize quality craftsmanship and timely progress. Follow this link to view some of their recent projects: http://www.uebbuilders.com/projects/3/1.html

EDIT:
from the above website: here is a live cam: http://www.uebbuilders.com/webcams/tyndall2.html

I drove by the Level today, pretty cool to see how far along it is! Can't wait to see it done and the other project get going next year.

[Anqrew]

I drove by the Level today, pretty cool to see how far along it is! Can't wait to see it done and the other project get going next year.

I drove past too for the first time in a couple months. was taken aback by how tall it is! so exciting for this overlay district. looks amazing!

[Patrick S]

http://tucsonlevel.com/parents/
http://tucsonlevel.com/assets/update_10.11.12.jpg

With five months of construction complete, Level is truly taking shape and already redefining the Tucson skyline. The completed ninth floor concrete slab provides spectacular views from 100+ feet creating buzz for the highly anticipated rooftop resort. Viewers can now more easily envision the building’s impressive stature and presence within the campus community.

Many of the initial critical construction milestones have already been achieved:

70% of the entire building’s concrete is already in place
Level 2 plumbing is in progress
Level 3 framing is near completion
Trade installation will continue at the lower levels as crews establish an installation routine to continue up for the replicated floors maximizing efficiency
Level’s exceptional progress to date is the result of the hard work and dedication of the 50+ construction professionals working daily on the project along with the oversight of our seasoned development team.

From here to the Penthouse Level, our General Contractor, UEB will continue to emphasize quality craftsmanship and timely progress. Follow this link to view some of their recent projects: http://www.uebbuilders.com/projects/3/1.html

EDIT:
from the above website: here is a live cam: http://www.uebbuilders.com/webcams/tyndall2.html
Living out on the southeast side I take Golf Links & Aviation Hwy to the U of A every day. It's just been this week that I've been able to see the building as I sit at the red light at the top of the Kino exit off of Aviation Hwy. Can't wait to see it when it's finished.

[Patrick S]

I'm going to take a break from talking about our beloved Tucson to talk about something important that's happening outside of our region. The following appeared on the website, America 2050. If you've never checked out the site, here's the link: http://america2050.org/.

California High-Speed Rail - Construction Set for 2013 (http://www.america2050.org/2012/10/california-high-speed-rail---construction-set-for-2013.html)

By Dan Schned on October 15, 2012

Last month, the Federal Railroad Administration issued a Record of Decision for one of the initial construction segments of the California High-Speed Rail Project, between Merced and Fresno in the Central Valley. This approval was the last major hurdle before construction can begin, which is now on target to break ground in 2013. Completion of the project's initial operating segment is slated for 2021.

Construction phasing for this project is complicated. The initial operating segment, 130 miles between Merced and Bakersfield, is comprised of four construction phases, two of which are between Merced and Fresno. These two construction phases are what are now cleared for construction. This work will entail constructing the spine, of what will ultimately be the statewide high-speed rail system, linking San Francisco and Los Angeles through the Central Valley in under two hours.

The whole article is longer, so give it a read if you'd like. I bring this up for a few reasons. First, I think to have a chance to get a real regional (CA, NV & AZ), or better yet, national HSR system we're going to have to get a successful system somewhere. Second, California is a trendsetter in this country - as they are the biggest state and biggest economy in the country. They are also obviously our neighbor and if it's successful there, hopefully the idea will be easier to implement here. Finally, I know there has been some contention between people on here recently. If I recall, someone, I don't remember who, talked about a line being started or opened in 5 years from now from here to Phoenix. This line has been in the planning stages for years, and though the whole system is much more ambitious than this small line, it took at least 5 years to get this small part (though this segment about the length - if not even a little longer - of a possible line from here to Phoenix). But, as we see, this one segment, thought it will start next year (2013), will not open until 2021. Then there's the whole thing about AzDOT looking into a rail link between Tucson and Phoenix, but the top speed of the line would be around 100mph, with some routes projected at much lower. Hardly HSR. Let's hope this line is built quickly and cheaply - at least in time and not over budget. Let's also hope this line is successful and is a model for the future of HSR lines in this country - including right here in the Sun Corridor.

[gozilla]

I'm going to take a break from talking about our beloved Tucson to talk about something important that's happening outside of our region. The following appeared on the website, America 2050. If you've never checked out the site, here's the link: http://america2050.org/.

California High-Speed Rail - Construction Set for 2013 (http://www.america2050.org/2012/10/california-high-speed-rail---construction-set-for-2013.html)

By Dan Schned on October 15, 2012

Last month, the Federal Railroad Administration issued a Record of Decision for one of the initial construction segments of the California High-Speed Rail Project, between Merced and Fresno in the Central Valley. This approval was the last major hurdle before construction can begin, which is now on target to break ground in 2013. Completion of the project's initial operating segment is slated for 2021.

Construction phasing for this project is complicated. The initial operating segment, 130 miles between Merced and Bakersfield, is comprised of four construction phases, two of which are between Merced and Fresno. These two construction phases are what are now cleared for construction. This work will entail constructing the spine, of what will ultimately be the statewide high-speed rail system, linking San Francisco and Los Angeles through the Central Valley in under two hours.

The whole article is longer, so give it a read if you'd like. I bring this up for a few reasons. First, I think to have a chance to get a real regional (CA, NV & AZ), or better yet, national HSR system we're going to have to get a successful system somewhere. Second, California is a trendsetter in this country - as they are the biggest state and biggest economy in the country. They are also obviously our neighbor and if it's successful there, hopefully the idea will be easier to implement here. Finally, I know there has been some contention between people on here recently. If I recall, someone, I don't remember who, talked about a line being started or opened in 5 years from now from here to Phoenix. This line has been in the planning stages for years, and though the whole system is much more ambitious than this small line, it took at least 5 years to get this small part (though this segment about the length - if not even a little longer - of a possible line from here to Phoenix). But, as we see, this one segment, thought it will start next year (2013), will not open until 2021. Then there's the whole thing about AzDOT looking into a rail link between Tucson and Phoenix, but the top speed of the line would be around 100mph, with some routes projected at much lower. Hardly HSR. Let's hope this line is built quickly and cheaply - at least in time and not over budget. Let's also hope this line is successful and is a model for the future of HSR lines in this country - including right here in the Sun Corridor.

The bottom line AZ is going to get a HSR. Maybe, not within 5 years, as I predicted (but you'll never know)...somewhere in the 2020's. You're right. California is a trend setter so it's more than likely we'll have a national HSR before 2050.

I know a few who ride the Amtrak between Tucson and California ... they love it. Some would frequent with riding the Greyhound Bus ... the buses are being upgraded to leather seats and wifi access. They complain about not being close to a bus stop or better a bus station. This is one of the reasons why I rant about not having the Greyhound Bus besides the Ronstadt Transit Center. There are plans for express bus service between Tucson and Phoenix/Sierra Vista/Green Valley. It would also be more convenient for an hourly rental vehicle such as zipcar or hertz be positioned right besides the Greyhound/Ronstadt/HSR/Amtrak stations, a transportation hub.

Thanks Brotha!

[Locofresh55]

IMBY, there's one individual that I know that's considering building a mid-rise condo complex at 22nd st just across Reid. It's sensible to build one at 22nd. Not far away there's a large student housing complex at 22nd being built in an 'undesireable' place, the Retreat. There's also ,The Bridges, a biotech/housing/retail infill project that's under construction (there's a Costco and soon to be opened mega-Walmart). That project is located in an undesireable neighborhood.

btw, not far away from The Bridges, are good bars/restaurants at 4th ave. north of 22nd.

see Kaneui's page, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4004052&postcount=788 .

What bars and restaurants are you talking about on 4th Ave North of 22nd?? I think you mean south of 22nd heading towards South Tucson and the Greyhound park. That area has some great restaurants like Mi Nidito and Crossroads Restaurant. All those are some fantastic Mexican Restaurants and there are also night clubs there but again it caters more to Latinos because I remember going to places like Guillermo's and Crossroads on Friday nights and these places had nothing but Norteño and banda Mexicana music blaring and then later on you would have reggaeton. The trouble is that most folks don't want to go into South Tucson at night because of the potential crime and shyt that can go on. Just north of 22nd on 4th Ave is houses and Santa Rita Park.......unless there is something else I missed.

[gozilla]

What bars and restaurants are you talking about on 4th Ave North of 22nd?? I think you mean south of 22nd heading towards South Tucson and the Greyhound park. That area has some great restaurants like Mi Nidito and Crossroads Restaurant. All those are some fantastic Mexican Restaurants and there are also night clubs there but again it caters more to Latinos because I remember going to places like Guillermo's and Crossroads on Friday nights and these places had nothing but Norteño and banda Mexicana music blaring and then later on you would have reggaeton. The trouble is that most folks don't want to go into South Tucson at night because of the potential crime and shyt that can go on. Just north of 22nd on 4th Ave is houses and Santa Rita Park.......unless there is something else I missed.

Damn! I got my north and south mixed up. That's right. The South Tucson bars/restaurants you mentioned. I'm an old dude but I take my wife and grandkids to Rigo's for breakfast buffet (across Crossroads) every now and then. I've been to Crossroads and Mi Nidito's.

As for South Tucson crime, the only problem I have experienced in that area are the pan handlers.

Try the donuts at Le Cave (6th ave/22nd ). There's also this grocery store, El Super (6th ave/I-10).

I'm taking off. Nice conversing with you.

[Locofresh55]

I don't live in Tucson anymore unfortunately but I was there 2006-2011 and I loved it. I loved going to El Super and yes I love the donuts at LeCave. I hope to return to Tucson as my final military assignment and I have a house there so that is another reason to come back. I think I will be shocked to see the changes with development but I also am ready to see the changes.

[Anqrew]

the old Circuit City on Broadway/Craycroft is being demolished I noticed. New store coming? This intersection is turning out pretty nicely, BJ's and Five Guys recently added and the Party City/Office store renovated. Then the Mervyns center is being renovated now. All that they need to do is clean up the NW corner with the gas station/blockbuster and it'll be a great corner.

[Ted Lyons]

the old Circuit City on Broadway/Craycroft is being demolished I noticed. New store coming? This intersection is turning out pretty nicely, BJ's and Five Guys recently added and the Party City/Office store renovated. Then the Mervyns center is being renovated now. All that they need to do is clean up the NW corner with the gas station/blockbuster and it'll be a great corner.

There was a mention in an article a few months back that someone had bought the Circuit City property but the realtor wasn't prepared to say who it was. I guess we'll find out soon.

[Ted Lyons]

http://azstarnet.com/business/local/new-retailer-focuses-on-credit-challenged/article_086f1bcd-4daa-54fd-9a31-a547177fee96.html

It's this.

New retailer focuses on credit-challenged

A furniture, appliance and electronics store that bills itself as catering to the "underserved and underbanked" is set to open by year's end in central Tucson.

Conn's Home Plus will move into the site formerly occupied by Circuit City on the southeast corner of Broadway and Craycroft Road, Chief Operating Officer Mike Poppe said.

He said the company caters to "the blue-collar, working class that doesn't have access to credit."

No-interest financing and rent-to-own options are available for customers to purchase mattresses, dining rooms, televisions or washing machines, Poppe said.

Customers with stellar credit will qualify for long-term, no-interest financing; those with hiccups in their credit can use in-house financing for up to 32 months with interest rates in the mid-20 percent range, Poppe said.

Shoppers who don't qualify for any type of financing can use the rent-to-own model, which allows them to take home a purchase under a rental agreement and keep it short-term or pay over time until they own it. Poppe said the monthly payments are usually higher than if an item was financed, but might be the only option for some buyers.

[Ritarancher]

I drive past downtown on I-10 multiple times a week and I am starting to notice plaza Centro, level and the new steel frames of the courthouse rising over some buildings.

The Mission district
I like the new cushing st. bridge and the senior apartments. I wish that construction there would speed up. The west-end station isn' t set to start until sometime next year and the next year will be the start of the brickyard apartments. Hopefully more will come in a faster pace, but I'll take what we have now.

[Thirsty]

http://tucsonlevel.com/parents/
http://tucsonlevel.com/assets/update_10.11.12.jpg

With five months of construction complete, Level is truly taking shape and already redefining the Tucson skyline.

Hopefully some other projects break ground before a picture like this shows up in the newspaper. If the photo had been taken looking south anyone could see that it is one of many mid-rise structures on that block.

From that angle there appears to be a tower rising up among one and two level buildings and some folks might give credence to the petitioners' claims.

[vinnyh79]

Hey all this is my first time posting but long time reader of this site.

Rio Nuevo Agrees to Settle With City Over Tucson Convention Center
Darren DaRonco
Arizona Daily Star
10/23/12
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/rio-nuevo-agrees-to-settle-with-city-over-tucson-convention/article_25507637-b4bc-596d-85a5-8f5267f5d985.html

The Rio Nuevo board agreed Monday to make up to $6 million in improvements to the crumbling Tucson Convention Center in a bid to resolve two lawsuits over who owns and owes what in connection with the downtown redevelopment project.

In return, the board wants the city to hand over $16 million in future profits from the Depot Plaza Parking Garage and a prime piece of real estate at Interstate 10 and West Congress Street where an arena was once planned.

Although Rio Nuevo board Chairman Fletcher McCusker was enthusiastic about prospects for the agreement, unofficial city responses were lukewarm. The City Council will discuss the offer in closed session today.

The Rio Nuevo board voted unanimously to submit the offer to the city.

"This has been a long-fought battle," McCusker said. "We worked very hard to find something we thought was fair, but at the same time represented our interests going forward."

McCusker said he and Rio Nuevo's attorney, Mark Collins, have been discussing the settlement with Mayor Jonathan Rothschild and City Attorney Mike Rankin for several weeks. He acknowledged there were a few differences between the offer and the terms discussed that may catch the city off-guard. But he said these were nothing the two sides couldn't work through.

[Patrick S]

Hey all this is my first time posting but long time reader of this site.

Rio Nuevo Agrees to Settle With City Over Tucson Convention Center
Darren DaRonco
Arizona Daily Star
10/23/12
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/rio-nuevo-agrees-to-settle-with-city-over-tucson-convention/article_25507637-b4bc-596d-85a5-8f5267f5d985.html

The Rio Nuevo board agreed Monday to make up to $6 million in improvements to the crumbling Tucson Convention Center in a bid to resolve two lawsuits over who owns and owes what in connection with the downtown redevelopment project.

In return, the board wants the city to hand over $16 million in future profits from the Depot Plaza Parking Garage and a prime piece of real estate at Interstate 10 and West Congress Street where an arena was once planned.

Although Rio Nuevo board Chairman Fletcher McCusker was enthusiastic about prospects for the agreement, unofficial city responses were lukewarm. The City Council will discuss the offer in closed session today.

The Rio Nuevo board voted unanimously to submit the offer to the city.

"This has been a long-fought battle," McCusker said. "We worked very hard to find something we thought was fair, but at the same time represented our interests going forward."

McCusker said he and Rio Nuevo's attorney, Mark Collins, have been discussing the settlement with Mayor Jonathan Rothschild and City Attorney Mike Rankin for several weeks. He acknowledged there were a few differences between the offer and the terms discussed that may catch the city off-guard. But he said these were nothing the two sides couldn't work through.
I don't see this happening. Why would the COT pay $16 million to get Rio Nuevo pay $6 million in repairs for the TCC? They could just pay the $6 million themselves and keep their future profits from the Depot Plaza, and keep the land for the once-planned arena. They could just sell that now and make some of the $6 million needed to put into the TCC. I want repairs done to the TCC, but not this way. I'm hoping even the COT isn't this stupid.

[Patrick S]

In another possible boneheaded move by the city. They're currently paying to renovate the Ronstadt Transit Center, only to possibly swap some, or all, of the property.

Ronstadt Transit Center may be swapped for Painted Hills parcel (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/ronstadt-transit-center-may-be-swapped-for-painted-hills-parcel/article_55a48c13-deed-56c8-9136-38e11f41fbe7.html)
PROPOSED PAINTED HILLS DEAL WORRIES BUS RIDERS
Becky Pallack and Darren DaRonco Arizona Daily Star

City officials are discussing swapping the Ronstadt Transit Center and up to two other downtown properties to the owners of a scenic 284-parcel in the Painted Hills area to block development there.
For months, the city has been negotiating with the Dallas Police and Fire Employee Pension Fund on a deal that would eventually have the city ceding the Painted Hills property to Pima County in exchange for $3.6 million.
Bus riders and local activists fear monied interests could take away a vital transit hub many poor and working-class people rely on.
City and county officials confirmed the transit center is included in the discussions, but said the talks are preliminary.
"It is a property that is being looked at," said Mayor Jonathan Rothschild. "But nothing is confirmed."
Rothschild said that although the pension fund wants to develop the property, its plans would not jeopardize the entire transit center, only the south side along Congress Street.
"We are not looking at the entire property by any means," he said. "What's been made clear to me from our transit people is that we can take part of that frontage and preserve the functionality of the transit center and leave (it) in its basic location."
New development would result in the transit center being shifted slightly north, taking up some land on Pennington Street, according to Nicole Ewing-Gavin, an assistant to City Manager Richard Miranda.
Ewing-Gavin said there are still many properties on the table, and issues such as what to do about parking in that area still need to be resolved before final decisions are made.
She said options could be presented to the City Council in November.
The county has wanted the Painted Hills property since 1997, when it was made part of that year's open-space bond program. But the county was outbid in 2006 when the Dallas pension fund bought the property for $27 million.
County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry said the Painted Hills property would become a part of Tucson Mountain Park and preserved as is with passive trails.
The county would then try to buy additional land to link Painted Hills to the rest of Tucson Mountain Park.
Not everyone's on board
Activist Brian Flagg of the Tucson Bus Riders Union organized a rally at the Ronstadt Center Monday to protest the plans.
"We feel the city has oftentimes not been transparent in their dealings," Flagg said. "The Ronstadt Center is really important to bus riders. It's the hub that gets them to jobs, to home, to clinic visits, everything. It's a lifeline."
He said the only acceptable changes to the transit center are improvements to make it easier on the people who use it.
Councilwoman Regina Romero said she would never support removing the Ronstadt Center from downtown. She said the city was forced into negotiations by legal fights with the pension fund and threats from the Legislature to change the law to force the city to provide water to Painted Hills to enable its development.
"That's the only reason we're negotiating," Romero said.
She said city land shouldn't be the only downtown land on the table.
"If the Dallas pension fund is interested in downtown land, the county also has downtown land," she said. "We shouldn't just be looking at the Ronstadt Center. We should be considering all of the county and city land as well."
County Supervisor Richard Elías said he wants to see Painted Hills preserved, but he added that Flagg makes good sense about the bus terminal downtown.
"We need to be talking about how to improve Ronstadt, not how to get rid of it," Elías said.
Barbie Urias, a spokeswoman for the Tucson Bus Riders Union, fears the settlement could mean the city gets rid of the center, which she said is something downtown developers have wanted.
Councilwoman Karin Uhlich said she wants no backroom deals on the transit center.
"This is an important place in Tucson, and I promise you if there are negotiations affecting it, those will happen in full light of day," Uhlich said.
Gary Coleman, a daily bus rider, said it would be wrong for the city to sell Ronstadt because it's a main access point to downtown.
"People come downtown, take the bus, socialize, and it's a good thing," he said.
"The Ronstadt Center is really important to bus riders. It's the hub that gets them to jobs, to home, to clinic visits, everything. It's a lifeline."
Brian Flagg,
transit activist

[retrorv]

In another possible boneheaded move by the city. They're currently paying to renovate the Ronstadt Transit Center, only to possibly swap some, or all, of the property.

Ronstadt Transit Center may be swapped for Painted Hills parcel (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/ronstadt-transit-center-may-be-swapped-for-painted-hills-parcel/article_55a48c13-deed-56c8-9136-38e11f41fbe7.html)
PROPOSED PAINTED HILLS DEAL WORRIES BUS RIDERS
Becky Pallack and Darren DaRonco Arizona Daily Star

City officials are discussing swapping the Ronstadt Transit Center and up to two other downtown properties to the owners of a scenic 284-parcel in the Painted Hills area to block development there.
For months, the city has been negotiating with the Dallas Police and Fire Employee Pension Fund on a deal that would eventually have the city ceding the Painted Hills property to Pima County in exchange for $3.6 million.
Bus riders and local activists fear monied interests could take away a vital transit hub many poor and working-class people rely on.
City and county officials confirmed the transit center is included in the discussions, but said the talks are preliminary.
"It is a property that is being looked at," said Mayor Jonathan Rothschild. "But nothing is confirmed."
Rothschild said that although the pension fund wants to develop the property, its plans would not jeopardize the entire transit center, only the south side along Congress Street.
"We are not looking at the entire property by any means," he said. "What's been made clear to me from our transit people is that we can take part of that frontage and preserve the functionality of the transit center and leave (it) in its basic location."
New development would result in the transit center being shifted slightly north, taking up some land on Pennington Street, according to Nicole Ewing-Gavin, an assistant to City Manager Richard Miranda.
Ewing-Gavin said there are still many properties on the table, and issues such as what to do about parking in that area still need to be resolved before final decisions are made.
She said options could be presented to the City Council in November.
The county has wanted the Painted Hills property since 1997, when it was made part of that year's open-space bond program. But the county was outbid in 2006 when the Dallas pension fund bought the property for $27 million.
County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry said the Painted Hills property would become a part of Tucson Mountain Park and preserved as is with passive trails.
The county would then try to buy additional land to link Painted Hills to the rest of Tucson Mountain Park.
Not everyone's on board
Activist Brian Flagg of the Tucson Bus Riders Union organized a rally at the Ronstadt Center Monday to protest the plans.
"We feel the city has oftentimes not been transparent in their dealings," Flagg said. "The Ronstadt Center is really important to bus riders. It's the hub that gets them to jobs, to home, to clinic visits, everything. It's a lifeline."
He said the only acceptable changes to the transit center are improvements to make it easier on the people who use it.
Councilwoman Regina Romero said she would never support removing the Ronstadt Center from downtown. She said the city was forced into negotiations by legal fights with the pension fund and threats from the Legislature to change the law to force the city to provide water to Painted Hills to enable its development.
"That's the only reason we're negotiating," Romero said.
She said city land shouldn't be the only downtown land on the table.
"If the Dallas pension fund is interested in downtown land, the county also has downtown land," she said. "We shouldn't just be looking at the Ronstadt Center. We should be considering all of the county and city land as well."
County Supervisor Richard Elías said he wants to see Painted Hills preserved, but he added that Flagg makes good sense about the bus terminal downtown.
"We need to be talking about how to improve Ronstadt, not how to get rid of it," Elías said.
Barbie Urias, a spokeswoman for the Tucson Bus Riders Union, fears the settlement could mean the city gets rid of the center, which she said is something downtown developers have wanted.
Councilwoman Karin Uhlich said she wants no backroom deals on the transit center.
"This is an important place in Tucson, and I promise you if there are negotiations affecting it, those will happen in full light of day," Uhlich said.
Gary Coleman, a daily bus rider, said it would be wrong for the city to sell Ronstadt because it's a main access point to downtown.
"People come downtown, take the bus, socialize, and it's a good thing," he said.
"The Ronstadt Center is really important to bus riders. It's the hub that gets them to jobs, to home, to clinic visits, everything. It's a lifeline."
Brian Flagg,
transit activist

What's boneheaded about it? The headline is obviously incorrect. The discussions are about moving the center slightly to the north. "New development would result in the transit center being shifted slightly north, taking up some land on Pennington Street, according to Nicole Ewing-Gavin, an assistant to City Manager Richard Miranda." So there would be new development along the north side of Congress with the Transit Center remaining in place. Why is this a bad idea?

[andrewsaturn]

In another possible boneheaded move by the city. They're currently paying to renovate the Ronstadt Transit Center, only to possibly swap some, or all, of the property.

Ronstadt Transit Center may be swapped for Painted Hills parcel (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/ronstadt-transit-center-may-be-swapped-for-painted-hills-parcel/article_55a48c13-deed-56c8-9136-38e11f41fbe7.html)
PROPOSED PAINTED HILLS DEAL WORRIES BUS RIDERS
Becky Pallack and Darren DaRonco Arizona Daily Star

City officials are discussing swapping the Ronstadt Transit Center and up to two other downtown properties to the owners of a scenic 284-parcel in the Painted Hills area to block development there.
For months, the city has been negotiating with the Dallas Police and Fire Employee Pension Fund on a deal that would eventually have the city ceding the Painted Hills property to Pima County in exchange for $3.6 million.
Bus riders and local activists fear monied interests could take away a vital transit hub many poor and working-class people rely on.
City and county officials confirmed the transit center is included in the discussions, but said the talks are preliminary.
"It is a property that is being looked at," said Mayor Jonathan Rothschild. "But nothing is confirmed."
Rothschild said that although the pension fund wants to develop the property, its plans would not jeopardize the entire transit center, only the south side along Congress Street.
"We are not looking at the entire property by any means," he said. "What's been made clear to me from our transit people is that we can take part of that frontage and preserve the functionality of the transit center and leave (it) in its basic location."
New development would result in the transit center being shifted slightly north, taking up some land on Pennington Street, according to Nicole Ewing-Gavin, an assistant to City Manager Richard Miranda.
Ewing-Gavin said there are still many properties on the table, and issues such as what to do about parking in that area still need to be resolved before final decisions are made.
She said options could be presented to the City Council in November.
The county has wanted the Painted Hills property since 1997, when it was made part of that year's open-space bond program. But the county was outbid in 2006 when the Dallas pension fund bought the property for $27 million.
County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry said the Painted Hills property would become a part of Tucson Mountain Park and preserved as is with passive trails.
The county would then try to buy additional land to link Painted Hills to the rest of Tucson Mountain Park.
Not everyone's on board
Activist Brian Flagg of the Tucson Bus Riders Union organized a rally at the Ronstadt Center Monday to protest the plans.
"We feel the city has oftentimes not been transparent in their dealings," Flagg said. "The Ronstadt Center is really important to bus riders. It's the hub that gets them to jobs, to home, to clinic visits, everything. It's a lifeline."
He said the only acceptable changes to the transit center are improvements to make it easier on the people who use it.
Councilwoman Regina Romero said she would never support removing the Ronstadt Center from downtown. She said the city was forced into negotiations by legal fights with the pension fund and threats from the Legislature to change the law to force the city to provide water to Painted Hills to enable its development.
"That's the only reason we're negotiating," Romero said.
She said city land shouldn't be the only downtown land on the table.
"If the Dallas pension fund is interested in downtown land, the county also has downtown land," she said. "We shouldn't just be looking at the Ronstadt Center. We should be considering all of the county and city land as well."
County Supervisor Richard Elías said he wants to see Painted Hills preserved, but he added that Flagg makes good sense about the bus terminal downtown.
"We need to be talking about how to improve Ronstadt, not how to get rid of it," Elías said.
Barbie Urias, a spokeswoman for the Tucson Bus Riders Union, fears the settlement could mean the city gets rid of the center, which she said is something downtown developers have wanted.
Councilwoman Karin Uhlich said she wants no backroom deals on the transit center.
"This is an important place in Tucson, and I promise you if there are negotiations affecting it, those will happen in full light of day," Uhlich said.
Gary Coleman, a daily bus rider, said it would be wrong for the city to sell Ronstadt because it's a main access point to downtown.
"People come downtown, take the bus, socialize, and it's a good thing," he said.
"The Ronstadt Center is really important to bus riders. It's the hub that gets them to jobs, to home, to clinic visits, everything. It's a lifeline."
Brian Flagg,
transit activist

The thing is, thousands of dollars is being spent on improving Ronstadt right now. It is money wasted if it is redeveloped. However, everyone agrees that the area is a prime spot, not only for office space or whatever, but for the many people who use it as a transfer station. With that being said, I would like to see that property be redeveloped. The people who frequent the station think that it will be moved out of downtown but that is obviously not the case. The protestors should work with the developers and maybe come up with a plan that has a new and improved transit center that is still in downtown.

[Ted Lyons]

The thing is, thousands of dollars is being spent on improving Ronstadt right now. It is money wasted if it is redeveloped. However, everyone agrees that the area is a prime spot, not only for office space or whatever, but for the many people who use it as a transfer station. With that being said, I would like to see that property be redeveloped. The people who frequent the station think that it will be moved out of downtown but that is obviously not the case. The protestors should work with the developers and maybe come up with a plan that has a new and improved transit center that is still in downtown.

It's not money wasted if the improvements are calculated into the price when it's swapped. As it is, Ronstadt is a waste of frontage on Congress and, as the article just barely suggests, the point is not to remove it altogether but to push it north a bit.

There's a triangular piece of property abutting Pennington, Toole, and Sixth that's used for a parking lot now. If the city were to obtain that piece of property and use it to make up for the lost space on Congress, that would be a major plus for downtown. Bus riders wouldn't be pushed out, the city would be able to maintain hundreds of acres of open space, and more development would be enabled on Congress.

EDIT - Looking at Google Maps - http://goo.gl/maps/o0QuK - the land lost by shifting the transit center north into the parking lot would be negligible.

[Anqrew]

i posted a map a long long time ago, i have no idea what page it is on. But it includes shifting the center north, making it occupy that triangle parking lot and eliminating pennington st. then the bottom portion of the lot had commercial buildings.

To be honest i would love the transit center to be entirely eliminated and moved somewhere else, but it does seem like bad timing since theyre renovating it right now...

[southtucsonboy77]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/23/health/gallery/cleanest-air-cities-2012/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Another nice honor...CNN ranked Tucson #5.

[Anqrew]

2 floors taller already

http://www.uebbuilders.com/camImages/TyndallCamera2.jpg?0.3908626746851951

[southtucsonboy77]

Hopefully some other projects break ground before a picture like this shows up in the newspaper. If the photo had been taken looking south anyone could see that it is one of many mid-rise structures on that block.

From that angle there appears to be a tower rising up among one and two level buildings and some folks might give credence to the petitioners' claims.

On the bottom left where the 2 palm trees are is where the proposed 10 story building will be located (if I'm not mistaken)...and next door to Level immediately south of Jack N The Box will be the 13 story Park Ave. building...a 14-, 13-, and a 10-story...I can't wait!!!

[southtucsonboy77]

i posted a map a long long time ago, i have no idea what page it is on. But it includes shifting the center north, making it occupy that triangle parking lot and eliminating pennington st. then the bottom portion of the lot had commercial buildings.

To be honest i would love the transit center to be entirely eliminated and moved somewhere else, but it does seem like bad timing since theyre renovating it right now...

If I was a planner (better yet, a key decision-maker) with the City and we were brainstorming sites to move the transit center, I would throw the idea out there (if you look at RTA's Downtown Links project map you can visually see where I'm going) to move it to the new realigned intersection of Stone and 6th St...you can actually merge two pretty decent sized parcels together where the current 6th St. splits them...or my #2 would be the completely vacant and extremely under-utilized (formerly known) El Mirador site. I know the "Warehouse-Arts" District would have fits, but at first glance, to me anyway, that would be a good downtown-fringe location. (BTW, I put the Dr. Evil quotations on the Warehouse-Arts because...although I've tried to join the bandwagon...I can't logically sympathize with the idea that the real estate is being utilized at its best use...and that their master plan has downtown's and the region's best interests. Just an opinion.)

[aznate27]

In reference to the Ronstadt Center, what do you guys think of keeping the center intact as it is and building on the air space above it?? I know the idea has been floated around in the past.

I lived in Los Angeles and they actually do this to many transportation centers around the city, to both the subway and above ground metro lines. They usually build several stories of commerical and residential space. I think it would work here too. Maybe a couple floors for office space and then 4 to 6 more for residential, or maybe all residential. Even a hotel could work in the space as well.

[Patrick S]

In reference to the Ronstadt Center, what do you guys think of keeping the center intact as it is and building on the air space above it?? I know the idea has been floated around in the past.

I lived in Los Angeles and they actually do this to many transportation centers around the city, to both the subway and above ground metro lines. They usually build several stories of commerical and residential space. I think it would work here too. Maybe a couple floors for office space and then 4 to 6 more for residential, or maybe all residential. Even a hotel could work in the space as well.
I've actually suggested this same thing before, on page 148. Here's my post from then:
"I actually wish they would keep it there, and build some mixed use development there too. I think a good idea would be to build a mid-rise building there with the bottom floor being used for Sun-Tran busses (and the streetcar - kind of a transfer station where you can get off one and onto the other) as well as possibly the new Greyhound station. A couple floors could be used to put the RTA operations, Sun-Tran, Tucson's DOT, Pima County's DOT - make it like the center for transportation in the city. There could be shops and a restaurant(s) - those would go well in a transit station, especially if Greyhound were to use it, and some of the other floors could be used for other offices (private, businesses) and possibly even some residential apartments on some of the higher floors (though that may be a stretch - who really wants to live right above a bus-station?). Just a thought."

[Ted Lyons]

In my experience, most buildings above transit sites involve putting the transit below grade. In our case, I can't envision the city doing that when it could probably purchase the triangle parking lot for less money and achieving the same ends.

That's not to say excavating and building on top of the transit center isn't a better idea, because it is. But, we have to think about what will fly budget-wise and I can't see the city opting for the better path.

I will say that, if the site weren't excavated and the transit center were to exist at ground level, I'd much prefer it just get moved back. 2nd floor retail provides little to the streetscape and, even in great walking environments, frequently suffers.