Tucson Development Thread

[southtucsonboy77]

Not really downtown or major development news, but currently under construction at the Arizona Pavilions (in Marana) along the river are TJ Maxx, Petsmart, Ross, and Home Goods.

[Ted Lyons]

As with anything An-related, I'll believe it when I see it, but they're supposedly opening a restaurant in the TEP building downtown.

http://tucson.com/business/tucson/article_0c3b1ee6-d6e3-519d-9003-2ec7a9464d6c.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share&id=201408

I'm guessing that 49,000 should read 4,900.

[farmerk]

Add more real high rises, downtown Tucson will start looking like a real downtown.

Tucson, let go of your cowtown mentality!

https://scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13876676_10153572106631923_2907087431283252694_n.jpg?oh=2af6c4f9e8d916a2493e024e52ea9f0f&oe=5858946A

https://scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/13902723_10153569786001923_806764309868331355_n.jpg?oh=b36b8d6582cbe3d4ea18f0fdbef87de3&oe=581207D7

[Azstar]

Add more real high rises, downtown Tucson will start looking like a real downtown.

Tucson, let go of your cowtown mentality!



If there were demand for taller office buildings, apartments, and hotels they would be built. The reality is the demand and economic viability does not exist in downtown Tucson. All projects are speculative and extremely risky.

[southtucsonboy77]

Kitchell selected to build $165M UA building (http://azbigmedia.com/azre-magazine/kitchell-selected-build-upcoming-ua-building)

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8681/28243088263_85de854f42_m.jpg[/url]

[aznate27]

Kitchell selected to build $165M UA building (http://azbigmedia.com/azre-magazine/kitchell-selected-build-upcoming-ua-building)

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8681/28243088263_85de854f42_m.jpg[/url]

Love the design! And I'll take the 10 stories, excited about this one!:tup:

[southtucsonboy77]

I've mentioned this factoid before and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but since 1986 the tallest AND most stories built in downtown Tucson is the new Unisource at 9 stories. I want the 20- and 30-story buildings...however downtown cannot even get over the 10-story hump. The UofA campus and Main Gate have gotten past 10 floors consistently the last several years.

I believe downtown Tucson is capable of a "tower" at 10-15 stories. The residential units proposed for 141 South Stone and La Placita justify that. I actually was hoping La Placita would be the one to reach and/or top 10 stories due to their location at a key downtown intersection and alleged readiness to go. :shrug:

The only 2 proposed buildings to reach and surpass 10 stories are the 12-story "south" Ronstadt apartment building and the Twin Tower...projected at 20-something stories.

[dtnphx]

I've mentioned this factoid before and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but since 1986 the tallest AND most stories built in downtown Tucson is the new Unisource at 9 stories. I want the 20- and 30-story buildings...however downtown cannot even get over the 10-story hump. The UofA campus and Main Gate have gotten past 10 floors consistently the last several years.

I believe downtown Tucson is capable of a "tower" at 10-15 stories. The residential units proposed for 141 South Stone and La Placita justify that. I actually was hoping La Placita would be the one to reach and/or top 10 stories due to their location at a key downtown intersection and alleged readiness to go. :shrug:

The only 2 proposed buildings to reach and surpass 10 stories are the 12-story "south" Ronstadt apartment building and the Twin Tower...projected at 20-something stories.

As a Phoenix resident, I admire the scale of Downtown Tucson. I always have a blast there. Downtown Phoenix has also come a long way as there are tons of things to do, but what's missing in a majority of the downtown core is that it is so overbuilt with tall buildings, convention centers and sports arenas that the street scale is too overwhelming. That's not to say you shouldn't pine for taller buildings to add to the urban feel, but too much of a good thing can kill the vibe. Also, commercial high rises are difficult to build, finance and secure the land needed. I bet most of the taller buildings you'll see will be residential in the near future.

[soleri]

As a Phoenix resident, I admire the scale of Downtown Tucson. I always have a blast there. Downtown Phoenix has also come a long way as there are tons of things to do, but what's missing in a majority of the downtown core is that it is so overbuilt with tall buildings, convention centers and sports arenas that the street scale is too overwhelming. That's not to say you shouldn't pine for taller buildings to add to the urban feel, but too much of a good thing can kill the vibe. Also, commercial high rises are difficult to build, finance and secure the land needed. I bet most of the taller buildings you'll see will be residential in the near future.

Yeah, I think downtown Phoenix has way too many dead zones - government buildings, parking garages, superblocks like the convention center, and the sports' venues. Tucson, by contrast, still has some human scale if it doesn't get too greedy. Nothing enlivens a downtown better than feet on the sidewalk and interesting businesses. Forget about tall buildings. They look great on postcards but seldom make a city more urban or exciting.

[wildcatmd]

Agree with much of what was said above. I think downtown tucson is just reaching that point of critical mass and still has a lot of work to do in terms of bringing in an initial cohort of residents and adding more retail and cultural options. As that work proceeds in the next few years, I think we'll then see a demand for more residential towers.

I think McCusker said that the progress that has been made downtown is still really fragile and could easily be erased by an economic downturn so I doubt banks are handing out multimillion dollar loans like candy.

[southtucsonboy77]

Banner UMC Tower - Going up!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8245/28913706185_784f5a435e_m.jpg

AC Marriott - Sheetrock

https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8852/28882138246_be50751d73_m.jpg[/url]

[Ted Lyons]

For some reason, they pulled it, but the Star posted an article about new student housing projects this afternoon. We already know about one of the two they mentioned - the project on the Chase property at Park and 1st. The other, though, was new to me - a project on the empty lot on the northwest corner of Broadway and Park. Beyond that info, the article wasn't very informative.

Here's a cached link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:N2t44tV5CfUJ:tucson.com/business/tucson/more-towers-for-student-housing-planned-in-tucson/article_fe278ec8-feec-5afe-bf07-cea9740995c9.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The Broadway and Park project isn't in the overlay zone, so I'm not sure what we'd be looking at heightwise. Some snooping on PRO indicates that demolition permits were requested for the two existing buildings on the block by a company called LCD Acquisitions, LLC this summer. A Google search of that name yielded an article stating that LCD is an affiliate of Landmark Properties, which developed The Retreat on 22nd. Thankfully, they have some denser properties/concepts in their portfolio. My hope, as always, is that the project is mixed use.

[InTheBurbs]

For some reason, they pulled it, but the Star posted an article about new student housing projects this afternoon. We already know about one of the two they mentioned - the project on the Chase property at Park and 1st. The other, though, was new to me - a project on the empty lot on the northwest corner of Broadway and Park. Beyond that info, the article wasn't very informative.


The link is back on the Star's website. As Ted said, it mainly focuses on the overall student housing market rather than specific projects.

http://tucson.com/business/tucson/more-towers-for-student-housing-planned-in-tucson/article_fe278ec8-feec-5afe-bf07-cea9740995c9.html

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/bd/4bde978e-9131-5709-a49d-02d3787b68ee/57ae4b22cab99.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C890

[southtucsonboy77]

Chase Bank site will be 10 stories. The term "tower" is used very loosely in our city. I'll be shocked if the Broadway site goes more than 4 or 5. With that said, I wasn't ever expecting a "tower" on that site anyway, so news of possible infill is great.

[Thirsty]

Not development, but possible good news for Davis Monthan's continued economic impact. Both DM and the Air National Guard Base could inherit 45 F16s used for pilot training.

It would be good to have a continuing mission already in the works if the USAF finally pulls the plug on the A-10.

From AZCentarl.com
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2016/08/15/f-16-fighter-jets-could-relocate-arizona-utah/88763114/

[southtucsonboy77]

This is extremely conceptual...the plan is receiving comments and will be refined I'm sure, but the planning is in process...but the SW corner of the under-construction Sunset extension and the I-10 frontage is proposed for a major business park. Early draft showed approx. five 5-story structures, approx. two 4-story structures, and a few other 1- and 2-story structures. Towards the back was a park adjacent to the Loop. Very nice plan. The density was very aggressive I thought, but I like where they're going with it.

Again, very conceptual.

[Ted Lyons]

No documents on PRO yet, but a sandwich place out of Salt Lake called Even Stevens is going into the Julian Drew Building. DRB is reviewing the proposed facade alterations at their next meeting. Seems like a concept that will go over well here, even if they are "outsiders" downtown.

[southtucsonboy77]

Great USA Today article regarding Tucson's food scene in downtown and outside downtown...

I enjoyed the pics that came with the article, don't skip them.

Chasing the sources in Tucson's budding food scene (http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/experience/food-and-wine/2016/08/19/tucson-food-scene/85376066/)

[crzyabe]

To pile on the national articles about Tucson's food scene, here is one from the New York Times

Tucson Becomes an Unlikely Food Star (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/24/dining/tucson-food-unesco.html?ref=dining&_r=0)

[InTheBurbs]

Nonstop Flights from Tucson to Hermosillo to Resume (https://news.azpm.org/s/41262-tucson-to-hermosillo-commercial-flights-to-return/)

According to AZPM, Aeromar Airlines is starting up flights from Tucson to Hermosillo in October. This will be the first service to Hermosillo since 2008.

The flights between Tucson, Phoenix and Guaymas announced earlier this year are still apparently still pending. Mexiconewsdaily.com said that Paradise Air is planning to operate those flights starting sometime this fall.

[southtucsonboy77]

Here's some more positive news that relates to possible future development...

Tucson #3 in Job Growth Cities on Bloomberg’s List (https://realestatedaily-news.com/tucson-3-job-growth-cities-bloombergs-list/)

Other than that, have you seen how fast the Banner tower is going up? They're basically up to the 6th floor already...impressive.

[Ted Lyons]

Here's some more positive news that relates to possible future development...

Tucson #3 in Job Growth Cities on Bloomberg’s List (https://realestatedaily-news.com/tucson-3-job-growth-cities-bloombergs-list/)

Other than that, have you seen how fast the Banner tower is going up? They're basically up to the 6th floor already...impressive.

Pretty typical speed for steel-frame construction, I think. The next portion, where the elevator shafts should be, will probably go a little slower.

It is pretty sizable, though, even at only two-thirds height.

[ComplotDesigner]

Greyhound Bus Station - 08/28/16

http://i.imgur.com/sZhxho2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bPIm7d3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/275WpeQ.jpg

Broadway & Highland - 08/28/16

One of a couple demolitions that will happen before the widening.

http://i.imgur.com/zxmuBrk.jpg

[InTheBurbs]

AC Hotel Top-Out Planned for November 5 (https://www.visittucson.org/press/news-releases/2016/reaching-new-heights-ac-hotel-tops-out-downtown-tucson)

Developers behind the the AC Hotel Tucson by Marriott—the next landmark to join the expanding downtown community—announces plans to celebrate the completion of vertical construction with a ‘topping-out’ on Saturday, Nov. 5, 2016. The ceremony will include City and County officials, planners, developers, and the general public in a collective celebration downtown...

Construction broke ground in December of 2015, and plans are on schedule to welcome the hotel’s first guests come Summer 2017. The eight story building will include 136 hotel rooms, a rooftop pool and bar, fitness center, 1500 square-feet of meeting space, dining selections, a chic lobby bar, and 4,800 square-feet of street level retail space...

Unlike typical topping-out ceremonies, the event on November 5 will include a ‘block party’-vibe with live music, local food and drink, and downtown festivities open to the public.

[Ted Lyons]

At this point, only blueprints are available on PRO, but the Sterling project at Tyndall and First will be 10 floors, with two floors of underground parking and groundfloor retail. The project will take up the entire frontage on Tyndall between 1st and the Arizona Historical Society, leaving Chase with the remaining parking area just to the south of their building.

[southtucsonboy77]

Old Pima County courthouse getting 1st makeover since 1954 (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/32868551/the-old-pima-county-courthouse-is-getting-first-makeover-since-1954)
Much needed.

[southtucsonboy77]

I told you it would be 10 floors, however it appears that they are proposing 2 mezzanines in addition to the above ground floors.

Here's a very draft rendering, not yet approved:

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8028/29266347391_472ca17906_m.jpg

[Ted Lyons]

I told you it would be 10 floors, however it appears that they are proposing 2 mezzanines in addition to the above ground floors.

Here's a very draft rendering, not yet approved:

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8028/29266347391_472ca17906_m.jpg

Not bad looking, but I'll be curious to see the finishing touches. That's been the problem with these complexes so far.

[kmiller5]

Not bad looking, but I'll be curious to see the finishing touches. That's been the problem with these complexes so far.

If that gets built and the new Residence Inn happens the Main Gate area will be looking pretty good!

[Ted Lyons]

Full plans for the Tyndall and 1st project are up at https://www.tucsonaz.gov/files/pdsd/boards-committees-commissions/T16SA00348_MGOD_-16-02_Tyndall_First_Student_Housing.pdf.

Too many renderings to pick just a few to post.

[kmiller5]

Full plans for the Tyndall and 1st project are up at https://www.tucsonaz.gov/files/pdsd/boards-committees-commissions/T16SA00348_MGOD_-16-02_Tyndall_First_Student_Housing.pdf.

Too many renderings to pick just a few to post.

Very cool. Do you know if the bank plans to stay there on that front lot?

[Ted Lyons]

Very cool. Do you know if the bank plans to stay there on that front lot?

As far as I know, they're reconfiguring their drive-thru, so it seems like staying is the plan for now.

[Azstar]

More subsidized housing for downtown Tucson


https://realestatedaily-news.com/gorman-company-selects-rainbow-housing-first-section-811-multifamily-housing-development-tucson-arizona/

[crzyabe]

I have a hard time caring about this:

World of Beer closing in Tucson, Phoenix area (http://tucson.com/entertainment/dining/world-of-beer-closing-in-tucson-phoenix-area/article_3d733545-ba52-5542-b752-db5bb93a3567.html)

[southtucsonboy77]

I have a hard time caring about this:

World of Beer closing in Tucson, Phoenix area (http://tucson.com/entertainment/dining/world-of-beer-closing-in-tucson-phoenix-area/article_3d733545-ba52-5542-b752-db5bb93a3567.html)

Streets has been very successful during weekday/lunch hours due to the fact their prices are very affordable AND the food is good. HiFi, World of Beers, Diablo Burger...the establishments on the east-end are overly priced. The landlords and/or business owners need a wake-up call. I love Diablo Burger, but man I leave scratching my head, "Did I just pay $15 for a burger and fries?"

[fourpalm]

World of Beers! Big surprise. Terrible customer service. So bad, I even emailed their headquarters. No response. Can't feel bad for a place where the staff that can't even attend to customers when things are slow. Even Circle K has figured that customer service is important!

[Qwijib0]

More subsidized housing for downtown Tucson


https://realestatedaily-news.com/gorman-company-selects-rainbow-housing-first-section-811-multifamily-housing-development-tucson-arizona/

Looked up a couple Gorman & Co section 8 properties and they all get middling to just below average HUD scores for maintenance so I hope the place isn't falling apart in a few years. Couldn't find anything detailed good or bad on the charity doing the onsite services.

[southtucsonboy77]

Development officials: Caterpillar could haul more companies to Tucson (http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/091416_caterpillar/development-officials-caterpillar-could-haul-more-companies-tucson/)

Since Caterpillar Inc. announced plans in May to locate a major division and bring 600 employees to Tucson, about 10 companies of the same size have expressed interest in also moving here, said Fletcher McCusker, chairman of the Rio Nuevo Board.

"I think by Christmas we will have something," he said, referring to another company relocation announcement.

[Ted Lyons]

Development officials: Caterpillar could haul more companies to Tucson (http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/091416_caterpillar/development-officials-caterpillar-could-haul-more-companies-tucson/)

Since Caterpillar Inc. announced plans in May to locate a major division and bring 600 employees to Tucson, about 10 companies of the same size have expressed interest in also moving here, said Fletcher McCusker, chairman of the Rio Nuevo Board.

"I think by Christmas we will have something," he said, referring to another company relocation announcement.

!!!

[farmerk]

Development officials: Caterpillar could haul more companies to Tucson (http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/091416_caterpillar/development-officials-caterpillar-could-haul-more-companies-tucson/)

Since Caterpillar Inc. announced plans in May to locate a major division and bring 600 employees to Tucson, about 10 companies of the same size have expressed interest in also moving here, said Fletcher McCusker, chairman of the Rio Nuevo Board.

"I think by Christmas we will have something," he said, referring to another company relocation announcement.

I hope one of those companies is a bank. Banks like tall buildings (remember Citibank?).

Thanks for that info.

[kmiller5]

Pizzeria Bianco closed...

Also, looks like Bourn sold Wilmot Plaza. Maybe now they'll be able to start City Park.

[Ted Lyons]

Pizzeria Bianco closed...

Also, looks like Bourn sold Wilmot Plaza. Maybe now they'll be able to start City Park.

In re City Park, that was exactly my thought. This should free up some capital for them.

In re Bianco, I'd heard for awhile that they didn't love the issues attendant to their location, but they chose it, so . . . In any case, I'm curious where they're looking now.

[Tloc]

Hi everyone, I really have enjoyed visiting this thread for the past 5 years or so and the contributions made available to the public. Born and raised in Tucson, I’m intrigued by the current optimism that will shape our downtown, city and region for decades to come. I look forward to interacting with everyone.
...

That was not the best location for Bianco. They had to share bathrooms with Playground and sandwiched between the Hub and Playground which both do very well on the weekends offering more competitive prices, more capacity and great atmosphere. They should relocate into the Arizona, unless those renovated spaces downstairs are already leased once completed. They have a lot of potential with the large deep space and looks like exposed brick. Then again, Reilly craft pizza and Empire pizza are right around each corner.

I think Bianco would do really well in its own building like its Phx location... cases adobes, tanque verde area maybe?

[Tloc]

Also does anyone know whats happening with Chicago Music Store?

I've heard it may be repurposed/renovated like the Arizona with mixed use. Apartments on top level and retail on bottom...?

[Ted Lyons]

Also does anyone know whats happening with Chicago Music Store?

I've heard it may be repurposed/renovated like the Arizona with mixed use. Apartments on top level and retail on bottom...?

Not sure about the whole building, but the basement is being leased by the company that owns Obon and Goodness. They're turning it into a music-oriented bar called Duck & Cover.

[Ted Lyons]

City Park is back up to five floors.

http://tucson.com/business/tucson/building-with-food-hall-bowling-alley-offices-proposed-for-downtown/article_5d0d7c78-3b92-5c6c-a916-bbbc84112507.html

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/a2/da2f7297-7641-564e-af58-1f35dc43b5e2/57e5d48da676a.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C622

[southtucsonboy77]

Not only is it important to FINALLY develop that empty lot, but I'm interested in the streetscape. My hope is that they can duplicate what's on Scott. The "orange" sidewalk pavers is outdated. I know it will be a monumental effort to update all of downtown's streetscape and the cost estimates (a few years back) to do what was done on Scott were pretty high, but if each new development/re-development does their piece it would help in the beautification and aesthetics of downtown.

The east-end has done a good job at this.

[southtucsonboy77]

Locals pitch idea to city for underpass skate park (http://www.kvoa.com/story/33187763/locals-pitch-idea-to-city-for-underpass-skate-park)

I like the idea...I-10/Cushing Underpass

[crzyabe]

Tucson International Airport is getting a lot of new food vendors. Almost all are local including: Noble Hops, Sir Vezas, Beyond Bread.

Concessions To Change at Tucson Airport After TAA Board Votes To Award New Contracts (http://www.flytucson.com/articles/index.cfm?action=view&articleID=584&menuID=185)

Here are a few renderings:

TUS Concessions Renderings (http://www.flytucson.com/includes/media/docs/A-Brighter-TUS-Concessions-Renderings.pdf)

[Ted Lyons]

Random updates:

Bourn is finally submitting development plans for City Park.

Next week's city council agenda will see discussions of the Ronstadt Transit Center development agreement as well as the sale of land to Rio Nuevo for the Caterpillar headquarters and the potential sale of the 114-124 Broadway properties.

[Tloc]

"RendezVous Urban Flats" will be the new neighbor of One S. Church!
So no new tower after all. Its ok as long as something starts soon. Article says it could begin in April which would be great and it sounds pretty promising with several investors

http://tucson.com/business/tucson/tucson-s-tallest-building-to-get-a-little-sister-not/article_748edca0-7374-54af-941a-bf4e2e31d893.html

This link has more pics:

http://tucson.com/news/local/photos-rendezvous-urban-flats-and-one-s-church/collection_c73e175b-5616-537a-8153-d4e4e5f98bf9.html

[southtucsonboy77]

Look, I know it's a positive thing that this vacant site of close to 30 years is finally gonna be developed, however this type of $h** is meant for the edges, not core of downtown. I've lived most of my life anticipating, wondering what will be built there and I see this anti-climatic bull****.

Then these hyped-up articles about how this site will be Tucson's tallest building, be a twin tower. What the hell was all that for? Geezuz I'm so disappointed right now. La Placita, this crap, the Stone Ave. crap...what's next? The Ronstadt will all be 3 story buildings and some will celebrate cuz SOMETHING is being built...? Oh, but density, oh but street front urbanism...yes, but this is still downtown. A developer has to have courage to go up a little bit. 10 stories anyone? At least? Man, whatever.

[somethingfast]

It's all about supply and demand, 'bro. Better vote for Trump cuz that's the only way that America rebounds and starts looking after its own turf and turncoat C-Level execs stop getting away with exporting all the good jobs out of the country or "H1B"ing the remaining jobs. "Boo, whine, Americans aren't *smart* enough to do this job...gotta bring in the foreigners". And we keep all the savings!!! Fuck you, peons! Thanks, Washington!". It's all...B freakin' S. Seriously, Americans need to wise up and realize The Establishment is running this shit show straight into the ground. It will be too late soon and you can guar-ran-fucking-tee Tucson will NEVER see a new tallest if things don't change.

[Ted Lyons]

Look, I know it's a positive thing that this vacant site of close to 30 years is finally gonna be developed, however this type of $h** is meant for the edges, not core of downtown. I've lived most of my life anticipating, wondering what will be built there and I see this anti-climatic bull****.

Then these hyped-up articles about how this site will be Tucson's tallest building, be a twin tower. What the hell was all that for? Geezuz I'm so disappointed right now. La Placita, this crap, the Stone Ave. crap...what's next? The Ronstadt will all be 3 story buildings and some will celebrate cuz SOMETHING is being built...? Oh, but density, oh but street front urbanism...yes, but this is still downtown. A developer has to have courage to go up a little bit. 10 stories anyone? At least? Man, whatever.

What are the edges of downtown, though?

[Patrick S]

It's all about supply and demand, 'bro. Better vote for Trump cuz that's the only way that America rebounds and starts looking after its own turf and turncoat C-Level execs stop getting away with exporting all the good jobs out of the country or "H1B"ing the remaining jobs. "Boo, whine, Americans aren't *smart* enough to do this job...gotta bring in the foreigners". And we keep all the savings!!! Fuck you, peons! Thanks, Washington!". It's all...B freakin' S. Seriously, Americans need to wise up and realize The Establishment is running this shit show straight into the ground. It will be too late soon and you can guar-ran-fucking-tee Tucson will NEVER see a new tallest if things don't change.
I can guar-ran-fucking-tee that the only thing Trump cares about being built anywhere near Tucson is a wall.

[clintjreed]

Hillary will destroy the economy. This Tucsonan is voting Trump! Tired of the liberals running this country and Tucson...

[somethingfast]

I can guar-ran-fucking-tee that the only thing Trump cares about being built anywhere near Tucson is a wall.

Well, pal, there's your new "tallest" !:tup:

[Ted Lyons]

Can we keep this on topic, please?

[wildcatmd]

We wont see high rises until Tucson's economy picks up. That wont happen until we bring more major employers in from elsewhere that employ professionals instead of back office call-centers. The only reason the mid rises at UA went up, for instance, was due to pent up demand from OOS cali students who thought they were getting a deal.

I think it is a waste of the foundation personally. They should just hold on to the space and wait until there is demand for a larger building.

[somethingfast]

@ Ted...really? I think we're VERY on topic. I remember being a 13-year-old back in '86 dreaming about that "new tallest". 30 years have come and gone. where America goes in November has EVERYTHING to do with Tucson's future. don't kid yourself. resources are finite. you cannot keep giving away the kitchen ad infinitum....

[southtucsonboy77]

Ted, the "edges" of downtown can be debated and argued, but there's definitely an inner and outer. The inner, or core, I would say is defined by I-10 on the west, railroad tracks to the north and east...and obviously the south is a little more blurred...I would landmark it by St. Augustine/TCC South/Cushing. To go even further, the north west boundary is tricky due to the neighborhood, but the large lot in front of El Charro and the COT owned lots adjacent to the tracks are left for interpretation.

With that said, the HORIZONTAL 4-5 story Junction at Iron Horse and District on 5th apartments are outer edge of downtown. Those developments are very appropriate. The Mercado, west end stuff...fine, 3-6. However, these Urban Flats on Church, La Placita, and 151 Stone are inner core. To have 3 of these long horizontal developments in the center of downtown is alarming. Yes, some of this has to do with the market, with demand. But look at the # of units for UofA student housing compared to the units in these structures. Very close...yet developers at Main Gate are going 10-14 stories. Downtown developers are going 6.

Its the DESIGN and LAYOUT. The Urban Flats are taking more area than originally planned. The development is taking more of the plaza at the NE and SW corners of the total area. They went horizontal rather than vertical. Sure, market studies dictated that a 23-story structure was a pipe dream. I can accept that. But to go from 23ish to 6? Come on. Our planning/design/architectural community in Tucson are small-timers. I can go on a tangent on that. If this development would have went from 23 to 15...I would have been sadden, but still excited. 23 to 10? Extremely sadden, but reason out that 10 would be the tallest since 1986. BUT 6 WITH THAT LAYOUT?

[Ted Lyons]

Ted, the "edges" of downtown can be debated and argued, but there's definitely an inner and outer. The inner, or core, I would say is defined by I-10 on the west, railroad tracks to the north and east...and obviously the south is a little more blurred...I would landmark it by St. Augustine/TCC South/Cushing. To go even further, the north west boundary is tricky due to the neighborhood, but the large lot in front of El Charro and the COT owned lots adjacent to the tracks are left for interpretation.

With that said, the HORIZONTAL 4-5 story Junction at Iron Horse and District on 5th apartments are outer edge of downtown. Those developments are very appropriate. The Mercado, west end stuff...fine, 3-6. However, these Urban Flats on Church, La Placita, and 151 Stone are inner core. To have 3 of these long horizontal developments in the center of downtown is alarming. Yes, some of this has to do with the market, with demand. But look at the # of units for UofA student housing compared to the units in these structures. Very close...yet developers at Main Gate are going 10-14 stories. Downtown developers are going 6.

Its the DESIGN and LAYOUT. The Urban Flats are taking more area than originally planned. The development is taking more of the plaza at the NE and SW corners of the total area. They went horizontal rather than vertical. Sure, market studies dictated that a 23-story structure was a pipe dream. I can accept that. But to go from 23ish to 6? Come on. Our planning/design/architectural community in Tucson are small-timers. I can go on a tangent on that. If this development would have went from 23 to 15...I would have been sadden, but still excited. 23 to 10? Extremely sadden, but reason out that 10 would be the tallest since 1986. BUT 6 WITH THAT LAYOUT?

I was honestly curious what your conception was because I thought about it myself and the areas I would consider to be edges of downtown are limited and, where they do exist, are often further limited by historic status.

The area around the mercado is the best example of a place that these developments would be appropriate. However, north of the train tracks, historic status becomes an issue for many lots near the streetcar, which has limited development. To the east of downtown, there are a lot of potential development sites, but no streetcar. The southern edge is almost completely blocked by historic zones.

What this all means is that, if developers want to do anything near the streetcar, downtown is actually their easiest option, which I think partially explains why these projects have focused there even if they may not be the absolute best use of their lots.

[southtucsonboy77]

Now that I've got my tantrum out of the way, I was reflecting this morning as I walked to get my coffee standing at the SW corner of Stone and Congress , shaking my head, what do I consider as good projects and what I consider as missed opportunities (aka, wish they could have done more). The longer I stood on that corner the more intrigued I got in visualizing a development that will finally fill that void that's been lingering for 30 years.

All things considered, I'm appreciative of the increased density and steady activity downtown. Most of us remember those "dry" and dreary years...so, yes, I'm shamefully going down that path of: "Well at least something is being built" mentality. My rationalization of what's "good" and "bad" is based on site/lot location, not product. Another criterion is layout. Here's my list:

Good projects (projects I like):
- One East Broadway
- One West Broadway
- Unisource Bldg
- AC Marriott
- Main Gate Square Overlay (student towers, Main Gate Residence Inn, love them all)
- Ronstadt (if current plans remain)
- Cathedral Square
- Banner Tower
- UA Health Science Innovation

Bad projects

- Cadence (gateway lot, missed opportunity for an iconic building entering downtown)
- La Placita (major downtown intersection opportunity)
- Urban Flats (deviated from footprint of long anticipated tower, got us excited)
- 141 South Stone (design, layout)
- Tucson Origins (why?, who really cares?)

Obviously, special recognition goes out to 1) Bourn for taking a lifetime to build on the Thrifty Lot, although I like the current product 2) Nor-Gen, for giving us the fear that he will never produce on the Convention Site 3) HSL, for leaving the ol' Holiday Inn tower empty, and for replacing the out-dated La Placita with one of his glorified, yet ill-placed apartment complexes, and 4) Peach Properties for giving us the worst, most terrifying renderings of all-time, the Armory.

[southtucsonboy77]

New 75,000 SF Shopping Center Coming to Southwest Tucson (https://realestatedaily-news.com/new-75000-sf-shopping-center-coming-southwest-tucson/)

A little bit of infill on the SW side off of Valencia Road. A Fry's Shopping Center is already being developed next door.

[southtucsonboy77]

Scottsdale’s Wasted Grain to Replace World of Beer Tucson (https://tucsonfoodie.com/2016/10/04/scottsdales-wasted-grain-replace-world-beer-tucson/)

Another "upscale" joint.

[Thirsty]

Yesterday from The Onion:
New Study Finds Most Of Earth’s Landmass Will Be Phoenix Suburb By 2050 (http://www.theonion.com/article/new-study-finds-most-earths-landmass-will-be-phoen-54107)

The end is nigh! ;)

[Patrick S]

Yesterday from The Onion:
New Study Finds Most Of Earth’s Landmass Will Be Phoenix Suburb By 2050 (http://www.theonion.com/article/new-study-finds-most-earths-landmass-will-be-phoen-54107)

The end is nigh! ;)
I saw that too. Gave me a good chuckle.

[crzyabe]

Small rocket company plans to launch big jobs in Tucson (http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/101216_vector/small-rocket-company-plans-launch-big-jobs-tucson/)

[southtucsonboy77]

Awesome.

And I'm really enjoying more and more articles from the Tucson Sentinel.

[crzyabe]

Awesome.

And I'm really enjoying more and more articles from the Tucson Sentinel.

Agree, it is my go to Tucson news source now

[Patrick S]

After Vector Space Systems, more big job announcements likely, county says

(http://tucson.com/business/tucson/after-vector-space-systems-more-big-job-announcements-likely-county/article_35ec3edc-6e4c-5a8e-8210-1052d229ad6d.html)

[farmerk]

Here's a Tucson Sentinel article that I like ->Sunshine Mile born to die for progress (http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/opinion/report/101116_bway_mcm_op/sunshine-mile-born-die-progress/)

[Ted Lyons]

Seems like a reshuffle is happening between hotel concepts in Main Gate Square. New documents submitted by the 714 Euclid (Bob Vint) group indicate that they've partnered with Residence Inn. This obviously calls into question what's happening with the project on 2nd Street.

https://www.tucsonaz.gov/files/pdsd/boards-committees-commissions/Hotel_Euclid_Revisions_Package_2.pdf

My hope is that Marriott is simply planning to rebrand the 2nd Street project subsequent to their merger with Starwood. Otherwise, a search for a new operator may explain the lack of movement there lately.

[kmiller5]

Seems like a reshuffle is happening between hotel concepts in Main Gate Square. New documents submitted by the 714 Euclid (Bob Vint) group indicate that they've partnered with Residence Inn. This obviously calls into question what's happening with the project on 2nd Street.

https://www.tucsonaz.gov/files/pdsd/boards-committees-commissions/Hotel_Euclid_Revisions_Package_2.pdf

My hope is that Marriott is simply planning to rebrand the 2nd Street project subsequent to their merger with Starwood. Otherwise, a search for a new operator may explain the lack of movement there lately.

Huh. I kind of assumed the 714 Euclid project was dead. The Main Gate hotel was much more exciting to me. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't work out.

[Tloc]

Reid Park Zoo announces plans for Health Science Center

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/33396553/reid-park-zoo-announces-plans-for-health-science-center

[Ted Lyons]

Peach's transformation of the old Brings building is starting to sound like a pretty decent project.

http://tucson.com/thisistucson/eat/former-downtown-tucson-funeral-home-will-host-new-cocktail-bar/article_34c395d4-924b-11e6-9ee5-67ee9f7ca0a9.html

[Tloc]

Tucson's far east side getting movie theater with dining option

http://tucson.com/business/tucson/tucson-s-far-east-side-getting-movie-theater-with-dining/article_0bdb78c4-9f91-5d86-9c25-dd15d0564da0.html

[Patrick S]

Peach's transformation of the old Brings building is starting to sound like a pretty decent project.

http://tucson.com/thisistucson/eat/former-downtown-tucson-funeral-home-will-host-new-cocktail-bar/article_34c395d4-924b-11e6-9ee5-67ee9f7ca0a9.html
I work right across McCormick from this building, literally like 20 feet away. We've watched for months as they've worked on this with rumors of what this would be. Can't wait for this to open.

[Ted Lyons]

Maybe not as exciting as a brand new employer bringing 2,000 high-paying jobs, but the Star writes that Raytheon is the company referenced in Patrick S's post from the 13th.

http://tucson.com/business/tucson/major-raytheon-expansion-could-bring-nearly-jobs-here/article_9509443f-390a-5c37-8861-9fb45179c5ab.html

Still great news, nonetheless.

[Tloc]

Well that century went up pretty quick, and the Dave and Busters is right behind it. I know its just a Century sign but it looks pretty cool in person. It fits right in with adjacent In-n-Out Burger sign that is pretty large. Can they please build an IKEA in that remaining lot(s) next to Costco, that would be great haha. Or does anyone know anything else going there?

http://tucson.com/business/tucson/new-cinema-set-to-open-nov-in-tucson/article_b48225d0-3cf4-5575-ad8d-bb665d6541d9.html

[southtucsonboy77]

I remember moving back to Tucson from California in the early 2000s, buying my 1st home on the SW side...having to drive to the El Con Century theater to watch a movie. Now there's 2 theaters for the south and SW sides of town. Great progress for an under-served area.

[Ted Lyons]

Well that century went up pretty quick, and the Dave and Busters is right behind it. I know its just a Century sign but it looks pretty cool in person. It fits right in with adjacent In-n-Out Burger sign that is pretty large. Can they please build an IKEA in that remaining lot(s) next to Costco, that would be great haha. Or does anyone know anything else going there?

http://tucson.com/business/tucson/new-cinema-set-to-open-nov-in-tucson/article_b48225d0-3cf4-5575-ad8d-bb665d6541d9.html

I've felt that would be an ideal location for IKEA for awhile. Just don't know if we're a big enough city for them.

[crzyabe]

I've felt that would be an ideal location for IKEA for awhile. Just don't know if we're a big enough city for them.

Ikea requires 2 million population within a 60 min drive of its store. Tucson is a long way off from gaining an Ikea

Central Ohio has what Ikea wants (http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2013/11/central-ohio-has-what-ikea-wants-when.htm)

[Ted Lyons]

Ikea requires 2 million population within a 60 min drive of its store. Tucson is a long way off from gaining an Ikea

Central Ohio has what Ikea wants (http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2013/11/central-ohio-has-what-ikea-wants-when.htm)

Nogales, Sonora gets us closer to that limit, although they're just over 60 minutes from Tucson proper. In any case, that would have to be a rough guideline given some of their existing locations (SLC, Sacramento, Las Vegas, etc.) and the fact that it would effectively place a hard cap on their ability to grow pretty much at all past their current stores.

For example, they're rolling out smaller formats in Australia right now. http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/your-budget/2016/06/08/ikea-new-stores-australia/

[crzyabe]

Nogales, Sonora gets us closer to that limit, although they're just over 60 minutes from Tucson proper. In any case, that would have to be a rough guideline given some of their existing locations (SLC, Sacramento, Las Vegas, etc.) and the fact that it would effectively place a hard cap on their ability to grow pretty much at all past their current stores.

For example, they're rolling out smaller formats in Australia right now. http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/your-budget/2016/06/08/ikea-new-stores-australia/

The combined population of both Pima County and Santa Cruz county is 1.1 million. I would say anything outside of Pima and Santa Cruz is going to be outside of the 60min drive.

Las Vegas Metro is close to 2 Million, and sacramento exceeds 2 million.

Salt Lake City's metro is roughly the size of Tucson, so that is a good example of an exception. However, with an Ikea only 70 mins away on I-10, they probably do not want to canibalize thier market without a significant population here in Tucson.

[Ted Lyons]

The combined population of both Pima County and Santa Cruz county is 1.1 million. I would say anything outside of Pima and Santa Cruz is going to be outside of the 60min drive.

Las Vegas Metro is close to 2 Million, and sacramento exceeds 2 million.

Salt Lake City's metro is roughly the size of Tucson, so that is a good example of an exception. However, with an Ikea only 70 mins away on I-10, they probably do not want to canibalize thier market without a significant population here in Tucson.

Yeah, I mean, I was specifically referencing Nogales, Sonora as Nogales, Arizona is a blip on the radar.

The issue with just looking at metropolitan population numbers is how far away certain population groups are from the store location. For example, Ogden is included in SLC's MSA, but the store is a solid hour from Ogden. The Las Vegas CSA includes Kingman and Lake Havasu City, so we're talking pretty hefty distances there as well.

I do agree that this is likely a pipe dream, but IKEA is going to run out of locations really quickly if they hold firm to this limit.

[crzyabe]

Yeah, I mean, I was specifically referencing Nogales, Sonora as Nogales, Arizona is a blip on the radar.

This is a really good point that I did not think about. An Ikea at Kino and I-10 would be well within the 100 miles from the border and an acceptable travel distance for residents of Nogales

[Azstar]

This is a really good point that I did not think about. An Ikea at Kino and I-10 would be well within the 100 miles from the border and an acceptable travel distance for residents of Nogales

Tucson is the poorest city in the U.S., based on the percentage of people living below the U.S. federal poverty line. 25% lives below poverty, and, I imagine, Nogales, Arizona is similar. In Nogales, Sonora, over 60% live below poverty. So, it's not likely IKEA is ever going to open anywhere that half the population would never be able to purchase anything there.

[Ted Lyons]

Tucson is the poorest city in the U.S., based on the percentage of people living below the U.S. federal poverty line. 25% lives below poverty, and, I imagine, Nogales, Arizona is similar. In Nogales, Sonora, over 60% live below poverty. So, it's not likely IKEA is ever going to open anywhere that half the population would never be able to purchase anything there.

Many products at IKEA are roughly similar in price to what you'd find at Walmart. I think the Mexican visitors who spend $1 billion (http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/mexican-tourists-worth-billion-a-year-to-tucson/article_55d792fa-4a25-595f-b5d4-1fece683c28d.html) (2009 figure) in Tucson every year would generally be able to pay IKEA prices.

[crzyabe]

Tucson is the poorest city in the U.S., based on the percentage of people living below the U.S. federal poverty line. 25% lives below poverty, and, I imagine, Nogales, Arizona is similar. In Nogales, Sonora, over 60% live below poverty. So, it's not likely IKEA is ever going to open anywhere that half the population would never be able to purchase anything there.

I agree that it is not likly to happen, but the money coming in from Mexico does throw the normal metrics out the door

[crzyabe]

I ran into one of the co-founders of Cultivate Tucson (http://www.cultivatetucson.com/about/) this morning. It looks like that organization is looking to turn the first floor of the old Chicago Store building into an indoor market with a a focus on locally made/developed goods. It will also include a few food vendors as well.

I dont know if this is a concept right now or if it's official. Either way, sounds interesting

[Ted Lyons]

I ran into one of the co-founders of Cultivate Tucson (http://www.cultivatetucson.com/about/) this morning. It looks like that organization is looking to turn the first floor of the old Chicago Store building into an indoor market with a a focus on locally made/developed goods. It will also include a few food vendors as well.

I dont know if this is a concept right now or if it's official. Either way, sounds interesting

That would be rad. Would be a good complement to City Park.

[Azstar]

"CULTIVATE Tucson is a collective that builds pop-up events in order to introduce makers, designers, small businesses, and non-profits to each other; share emerging talent and spaces; and create:" (from their website.) So, pop-ups are temporary.

[NicosSuperfries]

I ran into one of the co-founders of Cultivate Tucson (http://www.cultivatetucson.com/about/) this morning. It looks like that organization is looking to turn the first floor of the old Chicago Store building into an indoor market with a a focus on locally made/developed goods. It will also include a few food vendors as well.

I dont know if this is a concept right now or if it's official. Either way, sounds interesting

Last I heard (or saw on social media rather @cultivatetucson), they were looking at an old shop across the intersection from 5 Points Market for the next pop-up event in December. I went to their previous pop-up and it was FANTASTIC.

However, if what you said is true, they may be looking at a permanent market space. That would be a wonderful addition to the Chicago Store space highlighting local artisans in a prime downtown location.

[crzyabe]

However, if what you said is true, they may be looking at a permanent market space. That would be a wonderful addition to the Chicago Store space highlighting local artisans in a prime downtown location.

I think it is this. Again, I just had a brief conversation, but I got the impression this was a permanent thing. I could have misunderstood the intent.

[Azstar]

However, if what you said is true, they may be looking at a permanent market space. That would be a wonderful addition to the Chicago Store space highlighting local artisans in a prime downtown location.

That would be good news.

[kaneui]

Going forward, there will be fewer updates to my Tucson projects list, but hopefully there should be a new one around the first of each month.

[crzyabe]

Going forward, there will be fewer updates to my Tucson projects list, but hopefully there should be a new one around the first of each month.

I appreciate you updating that list, thanks fo rdoing that!

[Ted Lyons]

I appreciate you updating that list, thanks fo rdoing that!

Seconded.

[kaneui]

Check out all the local businesses headed to four downtown redevelopment projects receiving funds from Rio Nuevo (including Chris Bianco reopening his restaurant at 123 S. Stone):

http://rionuevo.org/peach-dabdoub/

http://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/PRESENTATION-PEACH-FINAL.pdf

http://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/RIO-NUEVO-ADVANCES-THREE-SIGNIFICANT-PUBLICPRIVATE-PARTNERSHIPS.pdf