Tucson Development Thread

[Patrick S]

Makes sense. I think Tucson is boxed in itself. It's probably only a matter of (short) time before more 20+ floor buildings gets built downtown. I think there's a demand for new good quality temp housing in Tucson since Tucson is filled with crappy apts. I've read those new student housing at 22nd st/Park Ave. are fully leased already. The District at 4th ave. was fully leased way before it was even finished.

It would be neat add those solar roadway all over AZ especially in Tucson when it's always freak'in dark. Solar panels are getting cheaper too with more energy packed in. I've read Toyota adding a solar roof to power a car's A/C and even help recharged an electric vehicle...google 'toyota solar roof' .
Tucson's boxed in to the north (Foothills), northwest (Marana, Oro Valley), kind of in the west (mountains), the southwest (Tribal land) and kind of in the east (mountains again, though there is more room out there before the Rincons), but in the south, especially the southeast, there is tons of room. Heck, there's like 50 square miles within the city limits, some of of it south of I-10 in the southeast and some in north of I-10 (Rita Ranch area out by Houghton), that doesn't have much, if anything, built on it. I remember when I first moved here I was driving in on I-10 from the east and I got to a sign that said Tucson City Limits. I couldn't see a building anywhere and didn't see one for 10 minutes. There's even areas surrounded by the city south of I-10 (west of Wilmot/east of TIA) that has very little built on it - prime annexation area for the city). Even beyond that land in the city limits that's not built on there's tons of open land around it. The southeast is going to be a major growth corridor. Hopefully Vail incorporates, but there's still land out there to be had. The city limits go down to basically Sahaurita and Green Valley (and it would be nice to see them incorporate too). The northwest (Marana especially) and the southeast are where you're going to see the major growth in the metro area the next couple decades.

[farmerk]

Tucson's boxed in to the north (Foothills), northwest (Marana, Oro Valley), kind of in the west (mountains), the southwest (Tribal land) and kind of in the east (mountains again, though there is more room out there before the Rincons), but in the south, especially the southeast, there is tons of room. Heck, there's like 50 square miles within the city limits, some of of it south of I-10 in the southeast and some in north of I-10 (Rita Ranch area out by Houghton), that doesn't have much, if anything, built on it. I remember when I first moved here I was driving in on I-10 from the east and I got to a sign that said Tucson City Limits. I couldn't see a building anywhere and didn't see one for 10 minutes. There's even areas surrounded by the city south of I-10 (west of Wilmot/east of TIA) that has very little built on it - prime annexation area for the city). Even beyond that land in the city limits that's not built on there's tons of open land around it. The southeast is going to be a major growth corridor. Hopefully Vail incorporates, but there's still land out there to be had. The city limits go down to basically Sahaurita and Green Valley (and it would be nice to see them incorporate too). The northwest (Marana especially) and the southeast are where you're going to see the major growth in the metro area the next couple decades.

Yeah, I would love to see those unincorporated areas incorporated. As for the areas south of the city/I-10 , I hope the city designate that area for industrial or business used only. Tucson needs more business. The thought of building more bland corporate made suburbs bothers me. When someone mentions to me 'This is the west. We need our space' , I feel like #@?@!!! (use your imagination).

[farmerk]

Article about 'The Retreat' , new student housing at Park/22nd (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/huge-student-housing-complex-in-tucson-fully-leased-before-opening/article_dc2de77b-c0a1-59bd-8270-977882e97305.html) .

[Ritarancher]

Today I drove by the UofA and was pretty impressed. Kino and 22nd is coming out great! Downtown looks ALot bigger and more powerful with the additions of Tep, joint justice, avenue in 5 and the cadence. I agree that the cadence does not look as good as the renderings but in my mid I was expecting it to be aweful but it's not as bad as I expected. I can't wait untill 1 east broadway, green line, the armory and west end station

[farmerk]

Today I drove by the UofA and was pretty impressed. Kino and 22nd is coming out great! Downtown looks ALot bigger and more powerful with the additions of Tep, joint justice, avenue in 5 and the cadence. I agree that the cadence does not look as good as the renderings but in my mid I was expecting it to be aweful but it's not as bad as I expected. I can't wait untill 1 east broadway, green line, the armory and west end station

I agree with you, Ritarancher. Downtown Tucson still has a very long way to go but compared to the previous 5 years or so, it's 1000 times better. Even with all the construction, there's more people visiting downtown after work and weekends.

Cadence isn't finished and too early to judge but I think it's headed to a disaster in terms of it's design. Of course, they could always paint some murals or even add some wall sculptures like the Old County Courthouse to save it.

I wished TEP would look like this, http://www.fosterandpartners.com/data/projects/1523/img2.jpg .
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/data/projects/1523/img1.jpg

[Ritarancher]

I agree with you, Ritarancher. Downtown Tucson still has a very long way to go but compared to the previous 5 years or so, it's 1000 times better. Even with all the construction, there's more people visiting downtown after work and weekends.

Cadence isn't finished and too early to judge but I think it's headed to a disaster in terms of it's design. Of course, they could always paint some murals or even add some wall sculptures like the Old County Courthouse to save it.

I wished TEP would look like this, http://www.fosterandpartners.com/data/projects/1523/img2.jpg .
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/data/projects/1523/img1.jpg

Disaster is a little bit of overkill for the cadence just because its not the style you like doesn't mean that it's terrible. Remember that it's not finished yet, it can only get better from here (murals? These people spent more money on cadence than the cost of level somebody's got to find it)
I think that the current TEP building is ok looking. The building shown in your picture will age badly and belongs in a place with a lot of space, not really downtown.

[farmerk]

Disaster is a little bit of overkill for the cadence just because its not the style you like doesn't mean that it's terrible. Remember that it's not finished yet, it can only get better from here (murals? These people spent more money on cadence than the cost of level somebody's got to find it)
I think that the current TEP building is ok looking. The building shown in your picture will age badly and belongs in a place with a lot of space, not really downtown.

Ritarancher, you are the only one I know that like Candence's design. Pretty much everyone I talked to disliked it.

The building that I referenced is designed by world class architects. It will age nicely unlike the TEP building. Most of the people I've spoken to don't like the design of the TEP. The TEP looks like a giant stapler to some I've spoken to. Sorry if I offended you, it's just my opinion :)

[bthom3000]

[QUOTE=farmerk;6047010]I agree with you, Ritarancher. Downtown Tucson still has a very long way to go but compared to the previous 5 years or so, it's 1000 times better. Even with all the construction, there's more people visiting downtown after work and weekends.

Cadence isn't finished and too early to judge but I think it's headed to a disaster in terms of it's design. Of course, they could always paint some murals or even add some wall sculptures like the Old County Courthouse to save it.

I wished TEP would look like this, http://www.fosterandpartners.com/data/projects/1523/img2.jpg .
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/data/projects/1523/img1.jpg[/QUOT

Murals and Wall Sculptures?! Wow am i glad you're not an architect haha. I agree its not the best looking. It reminds me a lot of the Pioneer building now. But I'll take something over nothing and hopefully down the line we get better buildings.
As for wishing TEP was designed by Sir Norman Foster is a dream. The university can't even get architects that good to do their buildings and they are putting up $100 million for some of their buildings. The best chance we have at getting a well designed building downtown would be to get a firm like Richard+Bauer to design a building or maybe Smith Group.
And the last time we tried to get a world class architect we ran him out of town. Sorry Rafael Vinoly.

[farmerk]

^^^ bthom3000 , I like the design of the Sentinal Plaza and MLK apts and they were built before the Candence. Yes, the Cadence and the current Pioneer Plaza looks pretty much the same. I DON'T like both of them . You'll take something over nothing? I'll take the same design as the Sentinel Plaza or MLK apts or even the ALoft hotel over the Cadence. :haha:

As for the TEP building, you like it. I don't. Doesn't have to be a world class architect to find an alternative for the TEP .

[aznate27]

I'm trying to keep an open mind about The Cadence. I was never thrilled about the design from the beginning. Right now it looks a lot like the Pioneer Building, which is not a good thing. For it being the year 2013. the design was a huge let down, but I don't hate it either.

Downtown needs to start embracing progressive designs. I don't want tall buildings to be built, just to have tall buildings. I would like to see designs that scream the future (like the shard in London or Dubai). The new courthouse seems cool, although I still think they could have pushed the envelope a little further. It looks like the Westgate area of the U of A is going to be a cooler skyline than downtown.:shrug:

[farmerk]

I'm trying to keep an open mind about The Cadence. I was never thrilled about the design from the beginning. Right now it looks a lot like the Pioneer Building, which is not a good thing. For it being the year 2013. the design was a huge let down, but I don't hate it either.

Downtown needs to start embracing progressive designs. I don't want tall buildings to be built, just to have tall buildings. I would like to see designs that scream the future (like the shard in London or Dubai). The new courthouse seems cool, although I still think they could have pushed the envelope a little further. It looks like the Westgate area of the U of A is going to be a cooler skyline than downtown.:shrug:

Thank You! The developers of the Cadence copied the wrong building. The owners of the Pioneer Plaza are making efforts to restore the original 1920's design...why is that? Hmmmmm....because the current design is UGLY! They could've copied the new MLK building or Sentinel Plaza. They want something historic looking? Copy the Rialto, Hotel Congress, Train Depot or Chase building. Instead they copied an eyesore.

What pisses me off more is that the Cadence was supposed to be 10 floors and the city made concessions in reducing the 4th Ave. underpass (another nice development) from 6 lanes to 4 lanes so Cadence can build their 10 floor building. When the El Centro garage was finished, I said to myself, 'WOW!! this place is going to be great!'....fast forward, we are stuck with a replica of the current Pioneer Plaza :yuck: . If the Cadence were tucked in some corner, I'd probably be fine but it's located right by 4th ave, snake bridge, Rialto , Hotel Congress....I mean WTF??!!!

The new developments by the WestGate look nice and they're not designed by world class architects!

[bthom3000]

I do not like the way Cadence is turning out but looking on the brightside, its stickframe construction makes it easy (cheaper) to tear it down and build something better in the future.

[Ritarancher]

Off topic but why is "A" mountain being painted.

[Patrick S]

Off topic but why is "A" mountain being painted.
I was just up there today. I was wondering the same thing.

[Locofresh55]

I thought in years past they painted the A for certain holidays. I remember they painted it green for St Patty's Day so maybe that's what they are doing this week.

[Thirsty]

I thought in years past they painted the A for certain holidays. I remember they painted it green for St Patty's Day so maybe that's what they are doing this week.

It is that time of year.

I've got a family member who painted it green one year. It wasn't exactly legal, so it was done under cover of night.

I suspect if it is being done openly, it is something officially sanctioned. Though, the St. Patty's paint job might be an official thing these days.

[farmerk]

I do not like the way Cadence is turning out but looking on the brightside, its stickframe construction makes it easy (cheaper) to tear it down and build something better in the future.

God! I sure hope you're right that they tear it down in the (very near) future.

btw, the prize goes to the 'one building that's looking better than the renderings' : ALoft Hotel - you have gained my respect...thank you for treating Tucsonan's with R.E.S.P.E.C.T .

Painting the 'A' mountain seems to be a yearly ritual among UA students. I remember seeing photos of UA students painting 'A' mountain way back in the 50's.

[Anqrew]

i think all these buildings look fine.... :shrug:

i actually really like the cadence, its not even done yet, plus the building has the art installations with vines and flowers on them which i think looks great.
once we get some vegetation planted on the sidewalks and some retail shops lined along the street, i think this area will look amazing.

and once its done, we'll see this wall which is green and matched the MLK building which adds some character besides the black and white.
http://www.thecadencetucson.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/rendering-fullcolor.jpg

[Ritarancher]

The cadence is two buildings and might not be done with the painting. The only problem that I see with the Cadence is that it's painted white and not a light grey or brown. I'm starting to get a little more angry with that building every day. A little color would be nice. A mural? No. I do agree it has differed from the rendering. Hopefully the vegetation would grow in soon.
I noticed that the tower crane for Level is being taken down, I am so far happy with that building. It's the best of the three (Hub would be the best if it's freaking windows were aligned and Park Ave has too many renderings to choose) and will look good in 10 years, 50 years and even 100 years. Most people agree that that building looks great. I personally feel that it combines an older brick and square shaped building with today's modern styles and it looks AMAZING. I hope these renderings don't let us down. As for Park Avenue and The Hub, does anybody know what design they're using. I know that each have two renderings that are different. I'm fine with both for Park Avenue but for the Hub I like the first one that we discovered not the one where a child placed the windows scattered across the building.

EDIT: I also think that the construction elevator has been taken down as well. We'll be seeing the building completed very soon here. We'll probably see the outside of the building being finished by late May or early June. I can't wait this to be done. Ever since I was a child I wanted to see a skyscraper with lights at night. College students will promise to provide us with those night lights. Sorry Astronomers

[farmerk]

Those brown panels is what bothers me about the Cadence. Those ugly panels will remind me and maybe would even create recurring nightmares of the current Pioneer Plaza. Some of you are against murals or wall sculptures, maybe a nice iron wrought in place of those brown panels will save the day and embarrassment, http://www.tucsonhomeloanblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IMG_20101214_1318201.jpg .

I know that some of you like the TEP building, that's fine. But my issue with the TEP is that it's too short for it's design. Standing besides it and looking up the TEP, I'd asked myself 'where's the rest of it?'. Plus the columns are too plain looking. If you are going to put a lot of glass in a building, might as well cover it at least 80-90 percent of the building. TEP has about 50 percent glass, 50 percent something else (mortar, cement etc..). Imagine the former Citigroup/Unisource (One church north?) building with 50 percent concrete...won't look good...like this http://www.deconcinimcdonald.com/offices/tucson/ (might as well get rid of the glass). Not far away from the deConcinni building at Broadway, is a new retirement home painted in pink with mostly concrete - now, that looks good. TEP building has a very confusing architecture. I think the TEP architect is either drunk/drugged or was trying too hard to make a name for him/herself.

Reason for Editing : Casitas on East Broadway , http://www.lrd-az.com/display/casitas-2/ , the pink retirement home referring above . It only cost about 5.5 million and it looks good, http://www.tofelconstruction.com/CasitasOnBroadway/casitasOnBrdwy.htm . I'm nowhere near retirement age and I wanna move at this place! , http://www.cooperthwaite.com/#/architecture-portfolios/panoramic/017

We need to be critical on what buildings gets built in the Old Pueblo , otherwise we might end up with a building that looks like this --> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacksonville_Modis_Building_Pano.jpg

[omarainza]

Those brown panels is what bothers me about the Cadence. Those ugly panels will remind me and maybe would even create recurring nightmares of the current Pioneer Plaza. Some of you are against murals or wall sculptures, maybe a nice iron wrought in place of those brown panels will save the day and embarrassment, http://www.tucsonhomeloanblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IMG_20101214_1318201.jpg .

I know that some of you like the TEP building, that's fine. But my issue with the TEP is that it's too short for it's design. Standing besides it and looking up the TEP, I'd asked myself 'where's the rest of it?'. Plus the columns are too plain looking. If you are going to put a lot of glass in a building, might as well cover it at least 80-90 percent of the building. TEP has about 50 percent glass, 50 percent something else (mortar, cement etc..). Imagine the former Citigroup/Unisource (One church north?) building with 50 percent concrete...won't look good...like this http://www.deconcinimcdonald.com/offices/tucson/ (might as well get rid of the glass). Not far away from the deConcinni building at Broadway, is a new retirement home painted in pink with mostly concrete - now, that looks good. TEP building has a very confusing architecture. I think the TEP architect is either drunk/drugged or was trying too hard to make a name for him/herself.

Reason for Editing : Casitas on East Broadway , http://www.lrd-az.com/display/casitas-2/ , the pink retirement home referring above . It only cost about 5.5 million and it looks good, http://www.tofelconstruction.com/CasitasOnBroadway/casitasOnBrdwy.htm . I'm nowhere near retirement age and I wanna move at this place! , http://www.cooperthwaite.com/#/architecture-portfolios/panoramic/017

We need to be critical on what buildings gets built in the Old Pueblo , otherwise we might end up with a building that looks like this --> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacksonville_Modis_Building_Pano.jpg

whats wrong with that building :( i agree the conrete would look better with metal paneling at the corners but i would take ANY building over nothing. i mean look at the empty twin lot, its a boarded up elevator shaft disguised by a nice collage by a community who thought it looked like crap lol. or the lot next to it which just has cars and the run down "historic" buildings that have no place in a growing urban scene.

i mean, i LIKE the pioneer now and the pima building lol *cue hate commnts* :D although i think the marquis at the top should be relighted, but its blue bricks add variety to the skyline. why would we want an entire skyline of sleak buildings like dubai or shanghai... it makes the skyline unique. plus as ugly as they may be it gives us something to aspire NOT to look like in our future designs.

as for cadence, they screwed up by shortening it. period, and the renderings look nice at night when people will be out and about so maybe it will look nice then with that same lighting. white might help to lighten the artificial canyon it made flanking the street on the north wall. i wish theyd stick something art deco or glass wall in just for the added variety

[farmerk]

^^^ Art Deco? Never thought of that. Can't go wrong with Art Deco. That could be a 'safe route' for confused architects. I'd take Art Deco over the current TEP and Cadence.

btw, With regards to the Level at Tyndall (http://tucsonlevel.com/), I'd take the rendering WITHOUT the brown walls (plastered outside). It makes it look like a Chicago housing project. There's this other rendering with light color in place of those brown walls...that I like.

[bthom3000]

Those brown panels is what bothers me about the Cadence. Those ugly panels will remind me and maybe would even create recurring nightmares of the current Pioneer Plaza. Some of you are against murals or wall sculptures, maybe a nice iron wrought in place of those brown panels will save the day and embarrassment, http://www.tucsonhomeloanblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IMG_20101214_1318201.jpg .

I know that some of you like the TEP building, that's fine. But my issue with the TEP is that it's too short for it's design. Standing besides it and looking up the TEP, I'd asked myself 'where's the rest of it?'. Plus the columns are too plain looking. If you are going to put a lot of glass in a building, might as well cover it at least 80-90 percent of the building. TEP has about 50 percent glass, 50 percent something else (mortar, cement etc..). Imagine the former Citigroup/Unisource (One church north?) building with 50 percent concrete...won't look good...like this http://www.deconcinimcdonald.com/offices/tucson/ (might as well get rid of the glass). Not far away from the deConcinni building at Broadway, is a new retirement home painted in pink with mostly concrete - now, that looks good. TEP building has a very confusing architecture. I think the TEP architect is either drunk/drugged or was trying too hard to make a name for him/herself.

Reason for Editing : Casitas on East Broadway , http://www.lrd-az.com/display/casitas-2/ , the pink retirement home referring above . It only cost about 5.5 million and it looks good, http://www.tofelconstruction.com/CasitasOnBroadway/casitasOnBrdwy.htm . I'm nowhere near retirement age and I wanna move at this place! , http://www.cooperthwaite.com/#/architecture-portfolios/panoramic/017

We need to be critical on what buildings gets built in the Old Pueblo , otherwise we might end up with a building that looks like this --> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacksonville_Modis_Building_Pano.jpg

I'm going to start off with the TEP building isnt the best. I feel it could have been better, especially with the amount of $ they probably invested into it. You can say the same about the courthouse going up on the north side of downtown. That one is very uninspired. But as for that's retirement building on broadway...that is one of the worst buildings in the city. Why don't we just design everything with that crap stereotypical southwestern garbage? I don't mean to be mean but GD that building sucks! In my opinion i'd like to see more buildings like the library on Kino around 36th. The idea of putting those fake iron balconies is a terrible idea. you have two different styles of architecture you are trying to mix there. Cadence, for all its ugliness is at least clean in line and more modern in that sense. throwing the iron "decorations" on there would make it look like a confused pile of **** even more than whats already there. I think with the correct lighting at night it could look nice like in the renderings. during the day its not going to look much worse that anything else downtown. And for the Hubs windows being randomly placed, i think it makes the building look a bit more modern and interesting. The first rendering makes the building look boring and just eh. The first rendering makes it look more like a housing project in the bronx.
Heres a link to the Quince-Douglas Library i was talking about. I would love to see more buildings like this. Or like the Phoenix central library by Will bruder. I'd take anything designed by will for our downtown.

I forgot the link to the Quince Douglas Library: http://www.richard-bauer.com/?project=quince-douglas-library
Heres a link to WIll Bruders new firm: http://worksbureau.com/

I highly recommend google image searching some of the buildings Will's firms designed.

[farmerk]

You guys can be mean to any buildings I'd like and proposed as long as you don't criticized my all time favorite high rise , Empire State Building (add the Chrysler Building , also ...Art Deco's).:)

I have a long list of buildings I hate in Tucson .... save it for later, I'm still in a state of shell shock with the Cadence :eek:

[Patrick S]

I'm going to start off with the TEP building isnt the best. I feel it could have been better, especially with the amount of $ they probably invested into it. You can say the same about the courthouse going up on the north side of downtown. That one is very uninspired. But as for that's retirement building on broadway...that is one of the worst buildings in the city. Why don't we just design everything with that crap stereotypical southwestern garbage? I don't mean to be mean but GD that building sucks! In my opinion i'd like to see more buildings like the library on Kino around 36th. The idea of putting those fake iron balconies is a terrible idea. you have two different styles of architecture you are trying to mix there. Cadence, for all its ugliness is at least clean in line and more modern in that sense. throwing the iron "decorations" on there would make it look like a confused pile of **** even more than whats already there. I think with the correct lighting at night it could look nice like in the renderings. during the day its not going to look much worse that anything else downtown. And for the Hubs windows being randomly placed, i think it makes the building look a bit more modern and interesting. The first rendering makes the building look boring and just eh. The first rendering makes it look more like a housing project in the bronx.
Heres a link to the Quince-Douglas Library i was talking about. I would love to see more buildings like this. Or like the Phoenix central library by Will bruder. I'd take anything designed by will for our downtown.

I forgot the link to the Quince Douglas Library: http://www.richard-bauer.com/?project=quince-douglas-library
Heres a link to WIll Bruders new firm: http://worksbureau.com/

I highly recommend google image searching some of the buildings Will's firms designed.
You have to remember, the courthouse is a government building. While it should look nice it's main job is not to inspire or awe anyone. It is being paid for by all of us and should be kept in budget. Honestly, I don't think the renderings look that bad anyways. As for the Hub, is this the picture everyone is talking about when they say the windows are randomly placed?

http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/TheHubrender.jpg

I don't think the windows are randomly placed. I just think the rendering shows lights on in some windows, drapes in other windows and neither drapes nor lights on in other windows. I think the design is pretty uniform. It looks like from this second rendering that all the windows are aligned normally.

http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/thehubattucson.jpg

[Patrick S]

New population estimates (http://www.census.gov/popest/data/counties/totals/2012/index.html) out by the Census Bureau. Pima County up to 992,394 in 2012, up from 987,573 in 2011 and 980,263 in 2010. (http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk) Maricopa County up to 3,942,169 in 2012 (3,868,525 in 2011 and 3,817,117 in 2010) and Pinal County up to 387,365 in 2012 (383,553 in 2011 and 375,770 in 2010). Pima's grown by 12,131 since 2010, a 1.2% increase. (http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk) Maricopa has grown by 125,052 in that time (3.3% increase) and Pinal county has grown by 11,595 in that time (3.1% increase). In all AZ grew by 161,240 in last 2 years, a 2.5% increase.

Sorry, these last 2 links may take you to the same table. I tried doing separate tables but they all have the same link.

[Patrick S]

Main Gate Square hotel proposal (http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?p=843)

More details have been published about the proposed hotel to be built in the Main Gate square area by CRBE Hotels.  The hotel is proposed to be built on the site at Tyndall Ave and Second St. which is currently a parking lot (area is highlighted on the image below).  The plan not only is for a 9 story, 150 room hotel, but for a 5 to 7 screen movie theater, two underground levels of parking and ground level retail space.  The project is awaiting a hotel partnership and a long term lease on the land.  If this building does come to fruition, the area would be one of the most densely populated areas in Tucson with 3 high rise student housing buildings being built as well as the existing Marriott.   We will certainly keep you updated on the progress or lack there of on this proposal.

http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/maingatehotel.jpg

[aznate27]

Main Gate Square hotel proposal (http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?p=843)

More details have been published about the proposed hotel to be built in the Main Gate square area by CRBE Hotels.  The hotel is proposed to be built on the site at Tyndall Ave and Second St. which is currently a parking lot (area is highlighted on the image below).  The plan not only is for a 9 story, 150 room hotel, but for a 5 to 7 screen movie theater, two underground levels of parking and ground level retail space.  The project is awaiting a hotel partnership and a long term lease on the land.  If this building does come to fruition, the area would be one of the most densely populated areas in Tucson with 3 high rise student housing buildings being built as well as the existing Marriott.   We will certainly keep you updated on the progress or lack there of on this proposal.

http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/maingatehotel.jpg

Never heard of this site, pretty cool.

[ppdd]

Main Gate Square hotel proposal (http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?p=843)

More details have been published about the proposed hotel to be built in the Main Gate square area by CRBE Hotels.  The hotel is proposed to be built on the site at Tyndall Ave and Second St. which is currently a parking lot (area is highlighted on the image below).  The plan not only is for a 9 story, 150 room hotel, but for a 5 to 7 screen movie theater, two underground levels of parking and ground level retail space.  The project is awaiting a hotel partnership and a long term lease on the land.  If this building does come to fruition, the area would be one of the most densely populated areas in Tucson with 3 high rise student housing buildings being built as well as the existing Marriott.   We will certainly keep you updated on the progress or lack there of on this proposal.

http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/maingatehotel.jpg

That parcel has been begging for something for years - it's not even a good parking lot. Ever since the Marshall building went up, it's been a bit of an eyesore. Glad something is still happening...

[Patrick S]

Never heard of this site, pretty cool.
Yeah, I came across that site looking for the pictures of the Hub I used a couple of posts earlier. It's kinda like this site. I thought it looked pretty cool - and professionally done.

[Patrick S]

I see on the city's website that the upcoming city council meeting for 3/19/13 will feature a review for a new liquor license for a Walmart Supercenter at 3435 E. Broadway, which is at El Con.

[farmerk]

Main Gate Square hotel proposal (http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?p=843)

... The plan not only is for a 9 story, 150 room hotel, but for a 5 to 7 screen movie theater, two underground levels of parking and ground level retail space.  The project is awaiting a hotel partnership and a long term lease on the land.  If this building does come to fruition, the area would be one of the most densely populated areas in Tucson with 3 high rise student housing buildings being built as well as the existing Marriott. ...



Wow! a 5 to 7 screen theater within walking distance from the UA and downtown. That's one of the most practical business decisions this city has made last few years. The other practical decision is Costco/Walmart at the Tucson Marketplace....A LOT of people actually go there every day. Hope it goes through.

Most of central Tucson is walkable especially around UA and downtown. I've walked from UA to Country Club (via Sam Hughes), to River via Campbell, to Stone via University Blvd, to I-10/6th Ave via downtown ... Build more of those 9+ floor mid-rise in those walkable areas, central Tucson will likely be the most densest in AZ.

10 nine floor buildings times 150 (rooms not condos/apts) equals 1,500 rooms . I'm sure there's at least 1,500 people out of 1 million that can afford to move in those 10 buildings from rundown cookie cutter apts/'historic houses'

Park Ave. street car route (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=442561319153834&set=pb.147598338650135.-2207520000.1363467701&type=3&theater). Imagine more mid-rise buildings to the right of that photo.

[farmerk]

It's gonna be interesting what art or sculptures will be put up along the street car route or even downtown links. This one interest me from the streetcar facebook (http://www.facebook.com/TucsonStreetcar), large head of a poet (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=399299656813334&set=pb.147598338650135.-2207520000.1363540776&type=3&theater)

.... or that other alien from Prometheus? (http://www.mindswork.co.uk/wpblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/sacrificial_engineer_prometheus1.jpeg)

There should be two tall bronze statues of females dancing (nude, i hope) standing on a 10 foot pedestal by the 4th ave underpass by April (I think).

[Thirsty]

Will Park Ave be closed to traffic between University Blvd. and 2nd St.?

[ProfessorMole]

Will Park Ave be closed to traffic between University Blvd. and 2nd St.?

No, it will be open to traffic. It was opened back up on Friday. The streetcar will be inline with traffic. They are also putting a traffic light up at 2nd and Park which will be so much nicer than the offset three way stop that was there previously.

[oldpueblo]

Drove by the Tucson Marketplace and it looks like they started work on the McDonald's off of Park next to the Walmart. If you look on the layout plans, it already has McDonald's.

[Anqrew]

http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/3/6/4/xy_364C66E5-77E8-4539-A3C9-9B48210B33C0__.jpg

Next to the new Hobby Lobby, looks like CBRE is looking to redevelop this lot which is currently a church. I've always hoped that lot would be redeveloped, especially since this Broadway/Craycroft intersection has been getting a lot of redevelopments lately.

heres pdf with more info and larger image
http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/5/0/0/50017E01-534A-4A5F-B512-EA0F2E2724AF.pdf

[Patrick S]

Developer seeks $2.5M from Rio Nuevo for Tucson hotel (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/developer-seeks-m-from-rio-nuevo-for-tucson-hotel/article_a6708deb-8b36-5dee-bd95-f8f27fb58a7a.html)
LOAN WOULD BE PART OF FUNDING FOR 6-STORY DOWNTOWN STRUCTURE
Darren DaRonco Arizona Daily Star

Rio Nuevo has been asked to provide the final piece of financing necessary to pull off a $22 million downtown hotel.

The 135-room, six-story hotel would be the centerpiece of developer Scott Stiteler's ambitious plan to create a downtown entertainment district around the intersection of Fifth Avenue and Congress Street.

Stiteler, manager of Tucson Urban LLC, asked the Rio Nuevo board at Monday afternoon's meeting to kick in $2.5 million to cover the funding gap left after $15 million in conventional loans and about $5 million in private money are factored into hotel financing.

Stiteler presented the request as a $2.5 million loan at 4 percent interest. But he wants most of the money used to repay the loan to be taken from taxes that would otherwise be owed to Rio Nuevo rather than from hotel profits.

According to repayment documents, Stiteler anticipates owing Rio Nuevo $388,476 from the sales/bed tax in the first year the hotel is in operation. He wants to apply half of that amount, $194,237, toward the interest and the principal on his loan.

That repayment pattern repeats until 2024, when there will be $974,230 left on the loan. Rio Nuevo's authorization expires in 2025.

Even with tax money going toward the loan, Stiteler still anticipates Rio Nuevo will net $3.3 million over 10 years from the hotel.

Board members were receptive to the idea that would finally bring a hotel downtown, but they wanted more time to consider the legal implications, such as whether giving money to the project would violate state law.

"I think I'm ready (to move forward)," said board member Mark Irvin, who said he needed a bit more time to study the issue.

The board voted to table the issue Monday and work with Stiteler and the board legal team. The board hopes to have an answer within the next 30 days.

Stiteler turned to Rio Nuevo after he came to an impasse with the city over some federal Housing and Urban Development loans.

The city wasn't clear on how to proceed with the loans after six months of discussions with Stiteler. He said he didn't want his project bogged down for months, or possibly years, while the city debated the next steps, so he decided to stop seeking the approximately $8 million in federal loans altogether.

Stiteler is also still seeking an eight-year property tax exemption from the city.

Stiteler said there are many roadblocks involved with putting up a hotel, and developers need the general assistance. He stressed that private money would still be taking the biggest risk in the deal, and in the end Tucsonans would win out with a revitalized downtown.

Other Rio Nuevo News

Rio Nuevo Chief Financial Officer Bill Allen informed the board that the district hadn't paid its sales taxes since August 2011. The district was required to pay 2.5 percent on the taxable rent it receives from its various properties. But it failed to do so to the tune of $96,000 in back taxes. The district owes the city $77,000 and the state $19,000. Allen said the money doesn't include interest or penalties. The board voted to have Allen negotiate with the city to see if there's any way the city could waive the penalties, interest or even the back taxes.

Chairman Fletcher McCusker said that's all in the past, and now the staff and procedures are in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

[Patrick S]

By the way, an update about a post from a couple days ago. Seems the new Walmart at El Con was denied a liquor license unanimously by the city council, though they can apply to the state liquor board. The article also said the store would be open in the fall. (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/21726048/walmart-denied-liquor-license)

[aznate27]

Stumbled on a very cool website devoted solely to high-rise and skyscraper development news and articles in the U.S. and the world. Thought I'd share :)
http://highrisefacilities.com/

[Ted Lyons]

Drove by the Tucson Marketplace and it looks like they started work on the McDonald's off of Park next to the Walmart. If you look on the layout plans, it already has McDonald's.

I went to Costco yesterday and a plat on the right side of the road that leads into the Costco parking lot is also being developed. Curious to see what that is.

EDIT - On the site plan, that pad is labeled "Shops H." This could be speculative construction, but that's still a good sign, IMO.

[Patrick S]

I went to Costco yesterday and a plat on the right side of the road that leads into the Costco parking lot is also being developed. Curious to see what that is.

EDIT - On the site plan, that pad is labeled "Shops H." This could be speculative construction, but that's still a good sign, IMO.
I agree.

[Patrick S]

I went to Costco yesterday and a plat on the right side of the road that leads into the Costco parking lot is also being developed. Curious to see what that is.

EDIT - On the site plan, that pad is labeled "Shops H." This could be speculative construction, but that's still a good sign, IMO.
Well, before the city's website decided to stop working properly (as it was 10 minutes before) I was going to provide links to show that the McDonald's is indeed under construction at the Bridges, that there have been applications for shops A-2 to be built directly east of the new McDonald's (http://www.tucsonmarketplaceatthebridges.com/images/stories/pdf/proposedsiteplan.pdf) (which can be found in the site-plan on the link provided), that when I tried to find out about Shops H the map just kept providing links to the same address as found for the McDonald's parcel (even though it is a different parcel) and that there has been a proposal for some houses to be built at the Bridges on the part of it that is west of Park St. (the northern portion of that parcel), but that this was proposed in 2011, though some things were dated as recently as August of last year. Unfortunately now when I try to pull things up in the city's map (http://maps.tucsonaz.gov/pdsd/index.html) right now, it says all the links are "null", which again, it didn't say 10 minutes ago - it let me get to the links I needed.

[omarainza]

I went to Costco yesterday and a plat on the right side of the road that leads into the Costco parking lot is also being developed. Curious to see what that is.

EDIT - On the site plan, that pad is labeled "Shops H." This could be speculative construction, but that's still a good sign, IMO.

you know what would do great here:
a 2 story dave and busters
somekind of entertainment mega attraction like a large laser tag arena
ikea (MAYBE)
a casino

sorry if those ideas sound super radical but i think given that its near ua, the freeway, AND in the middle of a home devolpment those 4 would make some bank. plus that we dont have those here (or at least not conveiently placed IN town)

[farmerk]

I wished they build more mid-rise high-end condo's and apts instead of those generic bland KBHome/Lennar homes at the Marketplace. Maybe another mid-sized hotel...to cater to clients and guests for the biotech center. That place could be a spot for the Grand Canyon U. branch. Leave those heartless corporate houses to Marana and Vail, Tucson has enough of those.:yuck: Central Tucson should be a mixed of current historic houses, mid-rises, high-rises, skyscrapers, .... you know urban....walk around the corner to buy groceries, drink at a cafe or bar etc...then go back home...walking.

It's a horrible blend to have an ugly bland suburban KBHome in the middle of an urban center.

[Patrick S]

I wished they build more mid-rise high-end condo's and apts instead of those generic bland KBHome/Lennar homes at the Marketplace. Maybe another mid-sized hotel...to cater to clients and guests for the biotech center. That place could be a spot for the Grand Canyon U. branch. Leave those heartless corporate houses to Marana and Vail, Tucson has enough of those.:yuck: Central Tucson should be a mixed of current historic houses, mid-rises, high-rises, skyscrapers, .... you know urban....walk around the corner to buy groceries, drink at a cafe or bar etc...then go back home...walking.

It's a horrible blend to have an ugly bland suburban KBHome in the middle of an urban center.
There's already a hotel planned for the Bio-Tech Park part of the Bridges. It's supposed to be about a 10-story, up to 140 feet tall, building. Check out page 16 of this link: http://www.tucsonmarketplaceatthebridges.com/images/stories/pdf/proposed_uofa_bioscience_research_park.pdf

[farmerk]

There's already a hotel planned for the Bio-Tech Park part of the Bridges. It's supposed to be about a 10-story, up to 140 feet tall, building. Check out page 16 of this link: http://www.tucsonmarketplaceatthebridges.com/images/stories/pdf/proposed_uofa_bioscience_research_park.pdf

Yes, that's good to know that the Market will have a 10 story hotel. Thanks.

"KB Home/US Lennar Homes are proposing to build approximately 700-750 architecturally distinctive, single-family homes at The Bridges" (http://www.tucsonmarketplaceatthebridges.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=54) Hopefully, they are as nice as those houses at the Mercado (downtown west side development).

I don't stick to one store when I buy groceries. I go to Costco, Walmart at the Bridges. Sometimes at Safeway (Broadway) or Fry's (Grant). I'm crossing my fingers that a Trader Joe's would move in the new Pima Courts Complex. That would be a good spot for a brand name grocery store. It should add more life in central downtown...with students and downtown residents walking or riding the streetcar to buy groceries. It's also close to the I-10 freeway, so people living close to I-10 can shop at Trader's downtown. The closest Trader Joe's that I know is Grant/Swan or Campebell/River.

[Ritarancher]

Yes, that's good to know that the Market will have a 10 story hotel. Thanks.

"KB Home/US Lennar Homes are proposing to build approximately 700-750 architecturally distinctive, single-family homes at The Bridges" (http://www.tucsonmarketplaceatthebridges.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=54) Hopefully, they are as nice as those houses at the Mercado (downtown west side development).

I don't stick to one store when I buy groceries. I go to Costco, Walmart at the Bridges. Sometimes at Safeway (Broadway) or Fry's (Grant). I'm crossing my fingers that a Trader Joe's would move in the new Pima Courts Complex. That would be a good spot for a brand name grocery store. It should add more life in central downtown...with students and downtown residents walking or riding the streetcar to buy groceries. It's also close to the I-10 freeway, so people living close to I-10 can shop at Trader's downtown. The closest Trader Joe's that I know is Grant/Swan or Campebell/River.

I hope the houses are distinct but I'm not getting my hopes up. Sometimes I wonder why housing developers don't bring their east coast designs to tucson. They'd sell like hot cakes! People are tired of stucco.

[farmerk]

I hope the houses are distinct but I'm not getting my hopes up. Sometimes I wonder why housing developers don't bring their east coast designs to tucson. They'd sell like hot cakes! People are tired of stucco.

Good point! How about something totally different. Neither the usual eastern nor western designs. Personally, I wouldn't care less about a front yard. Small backyard just for barbecue events. A thin 2 story house with a basement, large kitchen with no living or dining room and a 3 car garage would be perfect. I'm an extreme minimalist bachelor - translation, LAZY. The width of the house should be big enough for a very large screen television.

I wouldn't want any vegetation in or out the house...more than likely , they would die in a few days.

[Anqrew]

Good point! How about something totally different. Neither the usual eastern nor western designs. Personally, I wouldn't care less about a front yard. Small backyard just for barbecue events. A thin 2 story house with a basement, large kitchen with no living or dining room and a 3 car garage would be perfect. I'm an extreme minimalist bachelor - translation, LAZY. The width of the house should be big enough for a very large screen television.

I wouldn't want any vegetation in or out the house...more than likely , they would die in a few days.

Not to be rude but that sounds dreadful. Vegetation is crucial. Especially if you live in Tucson, a haven for all things outdoors! Turn off the flat screen and buy some plants! And a 3 car garage instead of living room? Living rooms are the heart of the home, not the garage. You are basically doing the exact opposite of feng shui and a home like that would not be a enjoyable place to live. Just my thoughts, to each their own though.

[Ritarancher]

Not to be rude but that sounds dreadful. Vegetation is crucial. Especially if you live in Tucson, a haven for all things outdoors! Turn off the flat screen and buy some plants! And a 3 car garage instead of living room? Living rooms are the heart of the home, not the garage. You are basically doing the exact opposite of feng shui and a home like that would not be a enjoyable place to live. Just my thoughts, to each their own though.

I agree. I like my mesquite trees and backyard. A living room is mandatory in any home. I could never live in those houses in Japan that are very narrow. But remember that this guy is a bachelor. It doesn't sound like he has kids or a wife.

[farmerk]

No, you guys aren't being rude. :no:

Yes, I don't have kids nor a wife - THANK GOD!!! :fireworks:

I don't have the typical 9 to 5 job either. I'm out my place or Tucson for long periods at a time. This explains why I want to live in a high-rise (not mid-rise) - no plants to worry about plus I don't have to worry much about people breakin in my place when I'm away. :cheerleader:

EDIT: My desire to have a basement in case I want to live in my probable future customized home at the Bridges stems from the fact that I want to start a new hobby - BYOB, Brew Your Own Beer. I need that constant temperature to store my kegs (oak, mesquite keg? ... don't worry RitaRancher, my mesquite lovin friend, your tree is safe!). :cheers:

Also the fewer stuff you own, the less worry about things getting stolen when you are away for long periods.

I could live anywhere but Tucson is where mom and dad grew up and died plus it's cheap and more importantly, mother nature has been nice to the Old Pueblo. If you're away, you want to make sure your place is still there (no tornado, hurricane, earthquake etc...).

[ComplotDesigner]

Tower Theatres to Harkins Theatres. (http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2013/03/25/locally-owned-tower-theatres-closing-this-week-to-be-replaced-by-phoenix-based-harkins-theatres) <--- Click.

[Ritarancher]

Tower Theatres to Harkins Theatres. (http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2013/03/25/locally-owned-tower-theatres-closing-this-week-to-be-replaced-by-phoenix-based-harkins-theatres) <--- Click.

That's aweful. It was a local theater that had potential to grow. Harkins is sort of local and I do prefer that theater over century, I do wish that Tower Theaters could stay open longer. They had a good run.


We are nearing the 200 page. What's the best/worst rendering you've seen? what building do you think will age the best?
EDIT: what's the biggest excitement/disappointment?

[Thirsty]

We are nearing the 200 page. What's the best/worst rendering you've seen? what building do you think will age the best?
EDIT: what's the biggest excitement/disappointment?

Off the top of my head

Biggest excitement: Streetcar

Biggest disappointment: Learning there are plans to expand the streetcar (rather than light or grade-separated rail) beyond the relatively dense and walkable university area.

[Patrick S]

Off the top of my head

Biggest excitement: Streetcar

Biggest disappointment: Learning there are plans to expand the streetcar (rather than light or grade-separated rail) beyond the relatively dense and walkable university area.
That's a good point, I never really thought of it like that. I would say:

Biggest excitement: Increased density and building of mid-rised buildings in the central core of Tucson (downtown and U of A area).

Biggest disappointment: The continued push-back by neighborhoods, citizens, and the city's ineffectual handling - though they have gotten better - to anything relating to growth in this city.

[Patrick S]

I'm also excited to know that I'm not alone in my excitement for improving Tucson and building a better city that includes things like increased density in the inner urban core, more walkable neighborhoods, increased mass-transit and better transit options to and from our neighbor to the north.

[southtucsonboy77]

That's aweful. It was a local theater that had potential to grow. Harkins is sort of local and I do prefer that theater over century, I do wish that Tower Theaters could stay open longer. They had a good run.


We are nearing the 200 page. What's the best/worst rendering you've seen? what building do you think will age the best?
EDIT: what's the biggest excitement/disappointment?

I recently moved by the theater...I really wanted to support it...but after a few movies I came to a quick realization that the sound system sucked. I started to make the drive to AMC Foothills for blockbusters and movies that I really wanted good sound quality and/or IMAX. For romantic-comedies, Towers was the best bet. On the bright-side Harkins taking it over translates to great quality sound and movie experience!!! Harkins is Phoenix-based...so its kinda local.

[southtucsonboy77]

We are nearing the 200 page. What's the best/worst rendering you've seen? what building do you think will age the best?
EDIT: what's the biggest excitement/disappointment?[/QUOTE]


Excitements: 1) Casino del Sol Hotel 2) Level 3) Unisource Tower

Disappointments: 1) Bourn-Thrifty Block Hotel 2) Convention Hotel 3) Cadence

I worked for the Tribe for over 7 years and the Casino Hotel was a project that my department got to work on. It was really exciting to build a tower in the Tucson region that was over 10 stories high. Very proud moment for the Tribe. Its beautiful. Level, for me, was a victory over the West University Neighborhood Association...the man...the evil NIMBY empire. Very hypocritical stances from them in my opinion. With Level moving forward, it made it possible for Park Ave and the Hub. Finally, Unisource Tower, with all its beauty (hahaha), displayed how a local business took notice of downtown and invested in it. A great gesture for downtown Tucson.

As for the disappointments...Bourn, well, self-explanatory. It's still vacant. The Sheraton Hotel was horribly planned out and out of scale. Like I posted several months ago, a more modest sized hotel with a modest amount of rooms divided by stages of hotel development would have been appropriate. It's amazing how the City and Rio Nuevo staff both screwed that up. The Cadence, ugh, drove by it yesterday evening and it looked stubby. I thought I would get over the drop of height/stories with the "at least something was built there" mentality...but I haven't. It just looks wrong...a missed opportunity for a truly wonderful "gateway" tower into downtown. AND the lame excuse of "we wanted to blend in and not overwhelm the adjacent neighborhoods" was a bunch of B.S. The more I rant on this the more I should put it as the #1 disappointment.

[omarainza]

That's aweful. It was a local theater that had potential to grow. Harkins is sort of local and I do prefer that theater over century, I do wish that Tower Theaters could stay open longer. They had a good run.


We are nearing the 200 page. What's the best/worst rendering you've seen? what building do you think will age the best?
EDIT: what's the biggest excitement/disappointment?

biggest excitement, the new buildings going up. always nice to see these.

disappointment: all the failed and shot down proposals that i REALLY would like reconsdered now that the city/board are on good terms and on the road to improvement (maybe).
1.century tower - should be built just because
2.twin unisource - not even a twin if they didnt want. just a highrise
3.bourn-thrifty - with a trader joes ground floor
4.arena/hotel block - with the greenline incorporated into the plan
5.cadence height - can't fix that now can we... i hope it burns or something before people get into it
6.diamond rock plaza - hsl needs to push the idea
7.convention hotel - idk if it was part of #4 above
8.sheraton hotel - could be the same as #7/#4 idek. several renders
9.ronstadt "remodel" (whatever they did didnt cost millions of dollars...ot looks the same but with a wall now)
10. 44 broadway i liked the propsed condos and floor additions/expansion to lateral lot. i dont see people living there yet...

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/files/2007/03/l1175178912.jpg

[farmerk]

We are nearing the 200 page. What's the best/worst rendering you've seen? what building do you think will age the best?
EDIT: what's the biggest excitement/disappointment?

Biggest Excitement : Tucson's growing acceptance of a real urban core. Streetcar. Downtown Links. Tucson's Bridges with Costco/Walmart.

Biggest Disappointment : Urban core growth in Tucson is NOT fast enough. Extremely disappointed with the cancelled projects and some ugly looking projects around downtown. 1 million people in the Old Pueblo and you still have people that want to keep Metro Tucson into a small town, LOL.

Best rendering : HUB. Sentinel Plaza. MLK. ALoft. And looks like the new Pima Courthouse is turning out to be nice. The county's Pennington Garage's Art Deco looks nice too.

Building that will age best : Sentinel Plaza

Worst rendering : Cadence

Let me amend RRancher's comment with "What do you want Tucson to accomplish by 2023...10 years from now"

- Cover at least 50 percent of Central Tucson with at least mid-rise buildings (5+ floors).
- Extend the streetcar (and yes, convert the rest of the tracks to light rail - dedicated lanes/tracks)
- Brand name retail/restaurants downtown
- This one is real ambitious --> Would love to have a handful of 20+ floor buildings and 1-2 skyscrapers downtown. :D

[farmerk]

There's NO shortage of potential building space downtown
http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/SentinelPlaza6-26-12.jpg

btw, the streetcar tracks should be done by early July, we could probably see more business moving downtown.

Found this site by accident , TIBO (http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?page_id=64)

Here's quote from this site:
"As many of us are well aware Tucson isn’t the most aesthetically pleasing city, the transportation is not efficient and it is lacking many things a city of over 1 million people should have. We built this site so you can submit your ideas and you also can discuss others. Ultimately we want to urge on the process of making our city look better, attract more tourism, commute more efficiently and make it more of a unique place in this country like we know it can be."

EDIT: TIBO, Tucson Improvement and Beautification Organization (http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/) , site turns out to be a goldmine for Tucson development. Here's it's facebook site (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tucson-Improvement-Beautification-Organizartion/317377998352767) .

[aznate27]

biggest excitement, the new buildings going up. always nice to see these.

disappointment: all the failed and shot down proposals that i REALLY would like reconsdered now that the city/board are on good terms and on the road to improvement (maybe).
1.century tower - should be built just because
2.twin unisource - not even a twin if they didnt want. just a highrise
3.bourn-thrifty - with a trader joes ground floor
4.arena/hotel block - with the greenline incorporated into the plan
5.cadence height - can't fix that now can we... i hope it burns or something before people get into it
6.diamond rock plaza - hsl needs to push the idea
7.convention hotel - idk if it was part of #4 above
8.sheraton hotel - could be the same as #7/#4 idek. several renders
9.ronstadt "remodel" (whatever they did didnt cost millions of dollars...ot looks the same but with a wall now)
10. 44 broadway i liked the propsed condos and floor additions/expansion to lateral lot. i dont see people living there yet...

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/files/2007/03/l1175178912.jpg

I see your list...but what does it have to do with the picture??? Is your list representing the different numbers and letters? It doesn't look like Tucson at all?

[Ted Lyons]

I see your list...but what does it have to do with the picture??? Is your list representing the different numbers and letters? It doesn't look like Tucson at all?

His numbers don't match up with the image, but that was the proposed development around the convention center and never-built arena. You can see TCC, the music hall, and the federal courthouse in the image.

[omarainza]

I see your list...but what does it have to do with the picture??? Is your list representing the different numbers and letters? It doesn't look like Tucson at all?

lol sorry no, the numbers are just disappointments i have. the picture was a proposition by allan norville with that piece of land by the frontage road where greenline is now proposed. ithink his rendering would add some nice density to that land but should include greenline. #4 being the thought behind the picture :/

and see! you couldn't tell it was tucson so +1 :))

btw, i went to radisson hotel the other night during some urban hiking and all the signs onthe building said "closed for remodeling" and the lobby lights were on and a car parked in front. now from what ive read here i thought hsl closed it down until the city/board negotiated a hotel deal and offered to fix some 50 rooms or something in the hotel arizona.

oh and why are all the water features drained? the fountains at the music hall and congress park are dry. was it for winter or maybe some water lines closed from the rail construction?

[southtucsonboy77]

Biggest Excitement : Tucson's growing acceptance of a real urban core. Streetcar. Downtown Links. Tucson's Bridges with Costco/Walmart.

Biggest Disappointment : Urban core growth in Tucson is NOT fast enough. Extremely disappointed with the cancelled projects and some ugly looking projects around downtown. 1 million people in the Old Pueblo and you still have people that want to keep Metro Tucson into a small town, LOL.

Best rendering : HUB. Sentinel Plaza. MLK. ALoft. And looks like the new Pima Courthouse is turning out to be nice. The county's Pennington Garage's Art Deco looks nice too.

Building that will age best : Sentinel Plaza

Worst rendering : Cadence

Let me amend RRancher's comment with "What do you want Tucson to accomplish by 2023...10 years from now"

- Cover at least 50 percent of Central Tucson with at least mid-rise buildings (5+ floors).
- Extend the streetcar (and yes, convert the rest of the tracks to light rail - dedicated lanes/tracks)
- Brand name retail/restaurants downtown
- This one is real ambitious --> Would love to have a handful of 20+ floor buildings and 1-2 skyscrapers downtown. :D

I would like to see in the next 10 years (not in order):

1) Arena/Hotel built: We need an arena badly. Our current facility is outdated...decent concerts can't come because the ceiling is too low. And the obvious, the arena amenities are just embarrassing. If we build the arena then Phase 1 Hotel and Phase 2 Hotel, pending on success of arena.

2) Build on the ol' Unisouce Tower "twin" pad. The elevator shaft and base is already built and ready...please please build on it for once. Get some offices off of River and/or Williams Centre to move downtown.

3) Building 10 stories or taller (may fulfill #1, #2)

4) Building 15 stories or taller (may fulfill #1, #2)

5) Building 20 stories or taller

6) Streetcar extension down 6th ave, Campbell, and/or Oracle. Southern Downtown and 6th Ave is ripe for density.

7) Light Rail down Kino to Airport

8) Buildings on parking lots throughout downtown, for example, the big one adjacent to El Charro...the cancelled "El Mirador" lots...the lots on Broadway

9) In conjunction with the arena, expand the AVA amphitheater and/or build another larger amphitheater. In Albuquerque, they have the Hard Rock/Journal Pavilion which is larger than AVA, but smaller than Desert Sky in Phx. They book way better acts than AVA. Now, on the northside of Albq they built a new amphitheater on the Sandia Rez. And, the suburb of Rio Rancho has a modest, yet capable, modern arena.

10) Build the Greenline.

11) Build the proposed Westside/Rio Nuevo developments.

12) Last, but not least, build a downtown MLS soccer stadium

[Patrick S]

ALL DOWNTOWN STREETCAR TRACKS SHOULD BE IN PLACE IN ABOUT A MONTH (http://www.downtowntucson.org/2013/03/downtown-streetcar-tracks-should-be-in-place-in-about-a-month/)
by Teya Vitu

During March, 4th Avenue and University Boulevard became the first stretches to take on the look of how the 3.9-mile route of the Sun Link Tucson Modern Streetcar will appear.

The track work is finished on those two streets, and the power lines above the tracks – the Overhead Contact Systems – were strung during March.

The week of March 25 is seeing construction of the first five streetcar stops on 4th Avenue and University. These are at 9th Street, 7th Street, 5th Street, 3rd Avenue, and Tyndall Avenue. Shade canopies will be installed in that order, from west to east, said Joe Chase, the streetcar project construction manager for the Tucson Transportation Department.

Park Avenue reopened March 15 after being closed for several months from University Boulevard to 2nd Street. This two-block stretch involved installing two, 90-degree curves.

Congress Street was shut down at Toole Avenue for the second time on Feb. 21 to allow crews to install a track switch.

The very first stretch of the modern streetcar track was built with the 4th Avenue Underpass from 2007-09 before Sun Link was officially approved or fully funded. This included a loop around the Rialto Block (Congress, 5th Avenue, Broadway, Toole Avenue).

The loop was built to allow the Old Pueblo Trolley to extend its run to Downtown’s east end. But with just a loop, there was no way to continue straight on Congress. Chase said a track switch was not available at that time, nor was the Modern Streetcar an official project yet. If anything, the track was extended to the Rialto Block at that time in order to complete the street and track work through the underpass as the same time.

Since Congress was closed at Toole, the curved tracks turning from Congress onto 5th Avenue were removed and replaced with a switch to enable the streetcar to go straight or turn left.

The intersection work should be done by April 11-12 with Congress at that time once again reopened for traffic from Toole to Church.

The final Congress stretch from Church to Granada Avenue should be finished toward the end of April or early May. This will allow the full run of Congress Street to be open for vehicle traffic for the first time since streetcar construction started April 9, 2012.

Streetcar tracks were installed on March 10 on Broadway from Scott Avenue to Stone Avenue and from 6th Avenue to 5th Avenue. The section from 6th Avenue to Thunder Canyon Brewery started getting set in concrete in March 22. That should be done by the end of the month.

Broadway has been reduced to one lane to allow for this track work. Water line work had already reduced lanes on Broadway since July.

“After Friday or the 1st of April, everything east of Church will have two lanes,” Chase said.

There is now continuous eastbound track from Church Avenue to 2nd Street and Warren Avenue. Westbound, all the track is in place from Warren to Congress and 5th Avenue.

Stone Avenue reopened through Broadway on March 22.

“We are hoping to be paved and out of Downtown in June,” Chase said.

All track work should finish around the end of June or early July. The last segment will be Cushing Street from Avenida del Convento, across the Luis G. Gutierrez Bridge and through the freeway underpass to link with the completed track on Granada Avenue.

“There’s not a lot more places for track to go,”

The only other section without track is the Warren Avenue Underpass beneath Speedway. A deep trench had to be dug so the streetcar could fit through the underpass. The streetcar will travel through the underpass about 6 to 8 feet lower than pedestrians.

By the numbers, 21,440 feet (4.06 miles) of straight rail and 5,420 feet (1.02 miles) of curved rail have been installed so far. Between now and June-July, 5,450 feet (1.03 miles) of straight rail and 4,762 feet (.9 miles) of curved rail still remain to be installed.

The track work has caused traffic disruption, but the streetcar route also includes 530 poles that will support the Overhead Contact System power lines. So far 243 of the OCS poles have been installed, 400 foundations have been drilled and 1 mile of cable has been strung on 4th Avenue and University Boulevard.

In March 2012, the first streetcar had been expected delivered to Tucson around October 2012 with public streetcar service projected to start in November 2013.

By summer, streetcar delivery from Oregon Iron Works in Portland was pushed back to February and recently to April 2013, but those delays did not impact the expected November service.

Now, however, the first of eight streetcars is not expected to arrive in Tucson until July with the last streetcar expected in summer 2014.

The streetcar’s expected debut in Tucson’s public transit system now has been pushed back from November 2013 to summer 2014.

At a March 2012 open house, transportation officials said the real driver in determining when streetcar service starts was tied to the construction schedule for the actual streetcars by Oregon Iron Works.

Tucson has to wait for Oregon Iron Works to finish building streetcars for Portland, which is expanding its streetcar line across the Willamette River.

Tucson is partnering with Portland in designing the Modern Streetcar. Tucson will get the same streetcar (except for the beefed up A/C system) used for the Portland streetcar, which has run for a decade from the Pearl District, through downtown to Portland State University. (The Portland Streetcar should not be confused with the Portland MAX light rail system, which uses larger trains, and has operated since the 1970s).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- I was under the impression that the line had to be operational by the end of the year or they risked losing their funding from the Federal DOT (their TIGER grant). Anyone else know about this?

[Patrick S]

I wonder where Kaneui has gone off to. He was always posting things and updating his Tucson metro development projects side-page. He hasn't updated that for over a month or the Flagstaff one for almost 2 months. He's gone away before but he usually gives a heads up or shout out before hand. He always finds good info and has some good inside scoops. Just wondering where you are good buddy.

[oldpueblo]

The Hub webpage by CoreCampus has a new rendering under projects. However, both renderings look like 13 stories.

http://www.corecamp.us/images/gallery/tucson/01-full.jpg

[farmerk]

The Hub webpage by CoreCampus has a new rendering under projects. However, both renderings look like 13 stories.

http://www.corecamp.us/images/gallery/tucson/01-full.jpg

God! That's ... that's beautiful. Thanks for posting that render. I wished they build more of those for non-student young professionals within downtown.

I can see myself sitting at my terrace on one of the top floors of that type of building listening to jazz while surfing the net on a nice spring sunset while drinking my special cold brew.

[Ted Lyons]

The Hub webpage by CoreCampus has a new rendering under projects. However, both renderings look like 13 stories.

http://www.corecamp.us/images/gallery/tucson/01-full.jpg

So, the windows are staggered. That building looks nice.

[Ritarancher]

The new renderings of Hub have slightly change my mind on what I think about it. The brown wall and the edge look AMAZING. I could due without the white wall with the terraces. Not that I have anything against the terraces, its the windows again.

The best rendering IMO is Level and the Courthouse.
The worst rendering is Cadence. BUT I do not mind it it's just not as good as the rest.
The best aging building IMO is going to be Level or the district on 5th. If the main gate hotel gets built, that rendering we've all seen is probably going to look good.
The worst aging. Park Avenue? I need to see more renderings to make a decision.
My biggest excitement was the Streetcar
My biggest disappointment was the Cadence's height being shortened for NO GOOD REASON!!!!
IN 10 years I want to look at downtown and know that Tucson has changed since 1980. I don't want to become like Albany, Buffalo or Minneapolis. Have you seen those skylines? They look like you went back in time to the 60s and 70s!! I want to be more like Austin, Texas. They're also a strongly democratic city. They've got new skyscrapers in mass amounts. Most of the tallest buildings there have been build within the last five years. I want Tucson to keep it's modern edge over other cities. Downtown Tucson is starting to look more modern. At least our downtown looks more modern than Phoenix. What's their newest tower, that GOD AWFUL Sheraton? It's hard to tell that you are in 2013 looking at downtown Phoenix.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I added a new proposed list on the wiki page. If anybody can add pictures that would be much appreciated. Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Tucson
EDIT2: I don't want Tucson to be exactly like Austin. I guess North Korea is after them http://michellemalkin.com/2013/03/29/kim-jong-un-threatens-to-launch-missiles-at-hawaii-dc-la-and-austin-texas/

[kaneui]

I wonder where Kaneui has gone off to. He was always posting things and updating his Tucson metro development projects side-page. He hasn't updated that for over a month or the Flagstaff one for almost 2 months. He's gone away before but he usually gives a heads up or shout out before hand. He always finds good info and has some good inside scoops. Just wondering where you are good buddy.


Apologies for the outdated development lists, but I've got new commitments in a new location, so I'm going to pass the baton to the rest of you to keep track of the development progress in Tucson and Flagstaff. I will no longer be updating my project lists for each city, but may check back in from time to time. Best wishes in promoting more urban and sustainable development in Arizona!

[farmerk]

Never been to Austin but looking at the photos in skyscraperpage, Austin did a very good job with their new high rises. I think Tucson is headed to look more like a Paris (France). And it may have to do with some of our current and former city councilwomen. Some of them have been to Europe.

If Tucson plans to build it's own Eiffel Tower, I hope they build it at this location (http://tucsonvelo.com/news/pima-county-plans-lake-front-park-with-several-bike-amenities/3570) . Looks like it's at the edge of Tucson with probably a good view of the desert at one side. Convert those dry rivers to a nyc central park.

Browsing at TIBO (http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?page_id=46), someone proposed building an aerial tramway to Mt. Lemon...I like that.

[Ted Lyons]

FORS Architecture posted a picture of the inside of Proper at 300 E. Congress the other day so I walked down the Rialto block to see how everything was progressing.

You can see through one of the front doors of Proper, which reveals an image pretty similar to the FORS picture. To me, it looks like they're probably half way through construction - the kitchen is built (appliances aren't installed yet, though) and a service bar has been built in front of the door.

Although you couldn't see into Diablo Burger, you could see into Good Oak Bar and it appears to be about as far along as Proper - a bar is being built along the east side of the space. What's interesting is that Good Oak was supposed to open after Diablo Burger but it seems like they're probably on similar timelines now.

[azliam]

The new renderings of Hub have slightly change my mind on what I think about it. The brown wall and the edge look AMAZING. I could due without the white wall with the terraces. Not that I have anything against the terraces, its the windows again.

The best rendering IMO is Level and the Courthouse.
The worst rendering is Cadence. BUT I do not mind it it's just not as good as the rest.
The best aging building IMO is going to be Level or the district on 5th. If the main gate hotel gets built, that rendering we've all seen is probably going to look good.
The worst aging. Park Avenue? I need to see more renderings to make a decision.
My biggest excitement was the Streetcar
My biggest disappointment was the Cadence's height being shortened for NO GOOD REASON!!!!
IN 10 years I want to look at downtown and know that Tucson has changed since 1980. I don't want to become like Albany, Buffalo or Minneapolis. Have you seen those skylines? They look like you went back in time to the 60s and 70s!! I want to be more like Austin, Texas. They're also a strongly democratic city. They've got new skyscrapers in mass amounts. Most of the tallest buildings there have been build within the last five years. I want Tucson to keep it's modern edge over other cities. Downtown Tucson is starting to look more modern. At least our downtown looks more modern than Phoenix. What's their newest tower, that GOD AWFUL Sheraton? It's hard to tell that you are in 2013 looking at downtown Phoenix.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I added a new proposed list on the wiki page. If anybody can add pictures that would be much appreciated. Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Tucson
EDIT2: I don't want Tucson to be exactly like Austin. I guess North Korea is after them http://michellemalkin.com/2013/03/29/kim-jong-un-threatens-to-launch-missiles-at-hawaii-dc-la-and-austin-texas/

The Sheraton? It's obvious that you haven't been keeping up with development in downtown Phoenix. Get back to us when you have.

[Ted Lyons]

The Sheraton? It's obvious that you haven't been keeping up with development in downtown Phoenix. Get back to us when you have.

As someone who posts in this forum regularly, people in the Phoenix forum getting their panties in a bunch and responding to these posts is more annoying than the posts themselves could ever be.

[azliam]

As someone who posts in this forum regularly, people in the Phoenix forum getting their panties in a bunch and responding to these posts is more annoying than the posts themselves could ever be.

Listen "Ted", what's more annoying are the comments in the Tucson forum about how everyone wishes for Tucson to never become another Phoenix. That's fine; however, as I was a Tucson resident from '92-early 2010, I started posting in the Tucson forum originally, lived through the Rio Nuevo debacle, and watched how Tucson really did not progress for all too many years. While I am happy to see Tucson flourishing, I'm not just some random poster here. I think I'm perfectly qualified to comment when people don't "get it right" about either city.

[southtucsonboy77]

Listen "Ted", what's more annoying are the comments in the Tucson forum about how everyone wishes for Tucson to never become another Phoenix. That's fine; however, as I was a Tucson resident from '92-early 2010, I started posting in the Tucson forum originally, lived through the Rio Nuevo debacle, and watched how Tucson really did not progress for all too many years. While I am happy to see Tucson flourishing, I'm not just some random poster here. I think I'm perfectly qualified to comment when people don't "get it right" about either city.

I love the ol' Phoenix/Tucson debates...

When you compare the 2 cities head-on, its not proportionate. Phx metro is nearly 5 mill and Tucson is 1 mill. Downtown Phx has a bigger footprint, has newer, taller, and more skyscrapers. Chase Field and U.S. Airways are located there...but when you compare apples with apples, oranges with oranges, Downtown Phx compared to...let's say...Downtown Denver/Dallas/Houston/Atlanta...it does not compete. Downtown Phx is a ghost town after 5pm. Weekends is just as bad. If the D-backs are not good, downtown is not good. Suns game, eh. Concerts...little more action. I'll take the less commercial, less formal Congress and 4th Ave in the Old Pueblo any day.

The problem with Downtown Phx is that there's not one concentrated "club/bar" district. Many restaurants are too formal and expensive. Mill Ave in Tempe and Scottsdale are the places to be and rule in that clientele. Too, Phx is soooo freakishly spread out. People wanna go home and be near home. Lastly, Downtown Phx failed with the Arizona Center. "Let's bring in all the commercial restaurants/stores of the suburbs and bring them downtown..." Didn't work. What do Phx leaders do? Arizona Center part 2 (aka CityScape). Rio Nuevo failed miserably. But behind the scenes, the local developers and small business-restaurant/bar entrepreneurs were bringing in these unique establishments that has given Downtown Tucson a distinct character...complimenting the distinct character of 4th Ave. Without big concerts or big sports entertainment, people are going downtown. Downtown Tucson hasn't even peaked. It's just starting and I can proudly say its a cool place to be.

This is only one man's opinion.

[PHX31]

Yeah, the Tucson/Phoenix debate always seems to come up. It wouldn't have to if people were just more educated.

For example, southtucsonboy77's post started well, but then trailed off into more incorrect statements. So now, people like me, a native of Phoenix, feel they have to correct him so incorrect information doesn't propegate.

Southtucsonboy77, you're right that Phoenix doesn't compare to places like downtown Seattle or something, but you're definitely wrong when thinking Downtown Phoenix lacks any kind of unique establishments downtown. There are tons, and it's growing. That's on top of the more corporate "Big box" stuff like CityScape.

I enjoy keeping up with Tucson projects, but sometimes I pass over this thread... any reason you Tucsonians keep everything in this thread? You could break it out into separate threads - for example, the streetcar is deserving of its own thread and it would be cool to check in on it there, rather than being buried in this catch-all thread.

[Anqrew]

yeah the debate pops up every few months it seems... lol. I wonder why thats how the culture is in Arizona. Phoenix and Tucson have always kinda been rivals... but i think that competitive edge is good sometimes. But definitely two different types of cities. But both cities honestly could be a lot better. Phoenix can get grouped with places like Denver and Seattle, and out of those Phoenix isnt the best. Same goes for Tucson, out of our similar cities its not the best, I'd say we compare well to Albuquerque and Salt Lake City maybe (even though Tucson wants to be the next Portland/Austin its not really close to them yet) But we have to remember Urban Arizona is rather new. 50 years ago Phoenix and Tucson were not that significant so we just started late compared to all these other cities.


EDIT: WOOO PAGE 200 lol

[Thirsty]

I enjoy keeping up with Tucson projects, but sometimes I pass over this thread... any reason you Tucsonians keep everything in this thread? You could break it out into separate threads - for example, the streetcar is deserving of its own thread and it would be cool to check in on it there, rather than being buried in this catch-all thread.

Funny, I pass over a lot of Phoenix stuff because there are a dozen threads (though only 3-4 active at any time), but Tucson probably could stand to break it off into Downtown Tucson, Suburban Tucson, and probably a sort of regional business development thread.

[Ted Lyons]

Listen "Ted", what's more annoying are the comments in the Tucson forum about how everyone wishes for Tucson to never become another Phoenix.

Why do you care? As a matter of fact, I have several regular contributors here on ignore, not because I don't like them, but because it helps me avoid embarrassing situations such as this. Maybe you should consider doing the same . . . or not reading this forum if the comments bother you so much.

While I am happy to see Tucson flourishing, I'm not just some random poster here. I think I'm perfectly qualified to comment when people don't "get it right" about either city.

Forgive me for missing all of your recent posts evidencing your current knowledge of development in both cities.

[Ritarancher]

Funny, I pass over a lot of Phoenix stuff because there are a dozen threads (though only 3-4 active at any time), but Tucson probably could stand to break it off into Downtown Tucson, Suburban Tucson, and probably a sort of regional business development thread.

We could, but this is easier.
First off Happy 200th page and Easter.
Thank you Kanaui for all the help and work you've put into following development. I have been following your page for years. I'm a little scared that we're going to get lost without you.
Next: Tucson vs Phoenix. I'm a Tucsonan, have been all my life. Let me tell you something. Phoenix is a LOT better and I hate to say that. Drive down Baseline road or Ray Road and it's an urban paradise. What do we have Broadway, Oracle? Hopefully Houghton will come out to be a nice road but even Rita Ranch is going downhill. Most parts of Tucson are eye sores. 4th avenue? THE WORST!!!! I HATE HATE HATE 4th Avenue. All the buildings are crappy and they either sell novelty items or drugs. That road is what keeps regular people far away from downtown. I went there last week and was very disappointed. The only things for regular people there are Lindy's, Brooklyn's, Skybar and Magpies. Yea sure we have the street fair but that's not a year round occurrence. It's bad when the nicest building on the road is the Cadence. I'm not saying that we need to get rid of the bars and clubs (I'm not much of a drinker or a clubber) but we do need to update the buildings, torch the novelty stores. Everybody says that fourth avenue is the city's best, is it? Is the best of Tucson a road full of novelty stores? I hope that the downtown business Playground,Hub and other regular people stores and restaurants continue to thrive. I am really counting on ground level retail to on our new buildings to really pick up. If they become novelty stores, at least it's in a nicer newer building. Nothing is keeping UofA grads in Tucson. Maybe the streetcar will, but it seems that most people are running as far away from Tucson as possible. I'm sorry. I just hate it there. I had to rant.
Phoenix people. Not to be rude but run your own threads. This thread works for us Tucsonans (after what I said about 4th ave I'm probably going to be banished). Remember there's only like 15 of us and the most recent project to be approved was Hub a while back ago. Phoenix is a bigger city and has more going on. But I understand why your mentioning more pages. Please don't be offended by this.
Next on the list....
farmerk the links you posted were helpful. The one with "similar sized cites" was kinda like a reminder that we need to step it up. Palm Springs is nowhere close to the size of Tucson but yet they have a better convention center than we do?! I also saw a new picture of the Junction at Iron Horse. It looks bigger and closer in size to the District on Fifth. Nice. I'd be okay with that area being hit with Parisization as I'm calling it. Washington DC works pretty well without any tall buildings but a crap load of 6-15 story buildings.
EDIT- Sorry if I forgot who the links were posted by. I think I got it wrong

[azliam]

Why do you care? As a matter of fact, I have several regular contributors here on ignore, not because I don't like them, but because it helps me avoid embarrassing situations such as this. Maybe you should consider doing the same . . . or not reading this forum if the comments bother you so much.



Forgive me for missing all of your recent posts evidencing your current knowledge of development in both cities.

Why do I care and what is so embarrassing? I attempted to correct a poster's incorrect assumptions... this website should be more of an informative site rather than the pissing match some try to make it out to be. It's not about "who's right", it's about "what's right". You can keep me on ignore if you'd like as my intention wasn't to drag you into this conversation, but thanks for your contribution. :)

[Jjs5056]

I'm a Phoenix resident; where was the mistake exactly in his post? The Sheraton is, unfortunately, the tallest building built recently, as far as I know. There has been a lot of progress in Phoenx recently, but not much in the way of true skyscrapers. I believe only one "skyscraper" is currently under construction, CityScape tower 2, and even that will be under 300' I believe. :(

[aznate27]

Anyway......

[nickw252]

Phoenix is a LOT better and I hate to say that. Drive down Baseline road or Ray Road and it's an urban paradise.


Is this sarcasm? Do you mean suburban paradise? There is nothing urban about Baseline or Ray Rd.


I'm a Phoenix resident; where was the mistake exactly in his post? The Sheraton is, unfortunately, the tallest building built recently, as far as I know. There has been a lot of progress in Phoenx recently, but not much in the way of true skyscrapers. I believe only one "skyscraper" is currently under construction, CityScape tower 2, and even that will be under 300' I believe. :(

The Freeport McMoran Building, Cityscape Office Tower, and County Courthouse were all finished a few years after the Sheraton. Still during the same era though.

The more I see and read about the Cityscape Residences the more hopeful I am that it will be more than 300 feet. Floors 1 and 2 of the hotel are both high floors (20ish foot ceilings), and the first floor of the apartments will likewise have high ceilings in order to house mechanical equipment, the outdoor pool, and common areas. I'm starting to think it will be 310' - 320' tall.

[farmerk]

I'm glad things are moving forward in Metro Phoenix. I love their light rail system. They got some restaurants downtown that I wished would relocate in downtown Tucson. There's this recently opened sushi place owned by a Japanese family downtown that I keep harassing them to set up shop downtown Tucson. I have to show them a map where Tucson is, btw.

As for Phoenix vs Tucson, how can we get along?
1 - Build a record breaking high speed rail between Tucson and Phoenix
2 - Bring back Destry Jetton to the Old Pueblo :heart:
3 - Of course, we need to just wait for this evil person to leave --> SATAN (http://www.azgovernor.gov/images/governors/GovernorBrewer/Governor_JanBrewer_Portrait_2011_LG.jpg)

RRancher, thanks for using the word, Parisization . It's a very high benchmark for Tucson but the Old Pueblo needs it otherwise Tucsonans will be back to the ol' manana attitude (nah, there's always next time...).

[Ted Lyons]

Is this sarcasm? Do you mean suburban paradise?

The comment that elicited this (rational) response is why some of us need to choose our battles wisely.

[Ted Lyons]

FYI, it looks like a crane is going up at The Hub site. One should be erected on Park soon, too, I would think.

[southtucsonboy77]

FYI, it looks like a crane is going up at The Hub site. One should be erected on Park soon, too, I would think.

I was there yesterday and noticed that too, it's exciting to watch this unfold. THREE 10 + storied buildings in one location in a year and 1/2 timeframe (compared to nearly zero in 20 years...), I got a tear in my eye. :yes:

One comment on the original Sheraton Hotel(s) statement...originally, when Tucson was on track to build the convention Sheraton, our Sheraton was the exact template (shell) of the downtown Phoenix Sheraton. I attended 2 design open houses that the contractor/Rio Nuevo/Tucson held...and one comment/suggestion I made was to please don't let it be the carbon copy of the Phx building...most attendees agreed and/or had the same concern...that's how the completed design rendering came to be. I thought it was a nice looking building once they implemented our suggestions.

[ProfessorMole]

FYI, it looks like a crane is going up at The Hub site. One should be erected on Park soon, too, I would think.

Here's a shot from today of the worksite. You can't see it in the photo, but about half of the first two floors of Level are bricked.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BG3ugmTCUAIfhh0.jpg:large

[Anqrew]

Phoenix is a LOT better and I hate to say that. Drive down Baseline road or Ray Road and it's an urban paradise. What do we have Broadway, Oracle? Hopefully Houghton will come out to be a nice road but even Rita Ranch is going downhill. Most parts of Tucson are eye sores. 4th avenue? THE WORST!!!! I HATE HATE HATE 4th Avenue. All the buildings are crappy and they either sell novelty items or drugs. That road is what keeps regular people far away from downtown. I went there last week and was very disappointed. The only things for regular people there are Lindy's, Brooklyn's, Skybar and Magpies.



FYI...your use of the word "regular people" is a bit ignorant and offensive. What exactly is a "regular person" ? are "regular people" better or more desirable than "weird people" ? Just something for you to think about...

What do Baseline and Ray have to offer? Im not familiar with those corridors but Im just going to guess a lot of chains and cookie cutter shopping centers and large malls? and those roads are probably 6 lanes with huge medians... tons of parking spots?

Thats not an urban paradise, thats a suburban corporate paradise. Its not unique, those types of areas can be found in any city. Thats not special. 4th Avenue is.. I dont go to Bars or Clubs either but 4th Avenue has tons of cute shops and restaurants, theres something for everyone. There are honestly so many shops, a lot of people overlook them.

furthermore all the buildings on 4th ave are not crappy, they are just fine. just because the were built before you were born and arent made of stucco like all the houses in Rita Ranch, doesnt mean a building is crappy. Those buildings on 4th are full of life and character.

But sure... 4th Ave can look a bit dirty.. the sidewalks could use replacing (something thats always bugged me), better lighting, they could plant some new trees, put in new planters, some buildings could use a new coat of paint or a fresher look... I agree with that.. But that all costs money... Im sure once the streetcar is rolling through and Student housing is done, these businesses will start getting more money, and they will begin to invest in making some things look nicer.. in the meantime all we can do is wait for those improvements to come. Im sure the city has all these plans for improvement especially if you have taken a look at their plans for the 4th ave/warehouse overlay district. I even emailed the mayor about these issues and he said those were all something they were aiming for. So i think eventually 4th ave will get a liitle cleaner, which is all it needs really. other than that the character is what makes it special

[aznate27]

Here's a shot from today of the worksite. You can't see it in the photo, but about half of the first two floors of Level are bricked.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BG3ugmTCUAIfhh0.jpg:large

Really excited about the new Hub crane going up!:tup:

[Ritarancher]

Phoenix people, I just saw the rendering of the Pin. I am so sorry that you guys have to deal with that.
http://inhabitat.com/big-wants-to-put-phoenix-on-the-map-with-a-giant-pin-observation-tower/

With 4 and a half million people. Phoenix is already on the map.

Anyway....

Andreq
My definition of regular people was those who are not hippies, hipsters, occupy protestors Ect. I simply meant people who
Point being, I have more of a problem with what is sold inside the stores at 4th ave rather than what the building's condition is. Yea the new students are going to help sales but not for all stores because some are completely irrelevant to what these people need. I can see the restaurants and bars thriving, for sure but people need grocery stores, clothing stores and hardware stores. At this point I don't care if a Target Urban (if that's what it's called) comes by and inhabits the lobby of the cadence. I think that a trader joes would also be nice at the lobby of a building. The housing developers have taken advantage of the student population and streetcar but the retail side of this has not taken off.
I hate to break it to you but forth avenue does NOT have something for everyone. Unless everybody is in need of some metal yard art sculptures and Tucson postcards.


Famerk
Yes the Parisization is what can make Tucson become a great city. I imagine what the city would be like in 20 years. I always hope that the area between downtown and the UofA becomes full of 4-8 story buildings. Torch those old crappy "Historic" homes for all I care (the Pioneer fire guy got released from prison today). Sure they're nice for their age but their time on this planet has come to an end. Nobody wants a 70 year old home without air conditioning and has only 1000 square feet but cost more than a new suburban home. I read an EXTREMELY biased news article by the Tucson daily (or so I think) and its this middle aged woman talking about how awful the district on 5th is and how bad it looks, how she and many others attend candle light vigils for homes that get demolished. I'm not joking, people mourn and cry over demolition of an empty home.

Elsewhere
I know that Phoenix has built more than the Sheraton this era, they've built buildings taller than any here in Tucson but relative to the size of the city we should not look up to Phoenix for a healthy downtown. Cities like Atlanta and Miami have built themselves a much healthier downtown than Phoenix.

For the better of Tucson and Phoenix, we need to eliminate Casa Grande Development. A high speed rail SHOULD do the trick, as long as it's nonstop but for some reason the decision of stopping in Casa Grande will be up to them, even though they'll only account for 2% of all riders.

[Anqrew]

Actually there IS something for everyone on 4th avenue. As someone who actually lives less than a mile away vs someone who lives in Rita Ranch, im pretty sure i have a bit more experience. And again what makes Hippies Hipsters and Protestors not regular people? i dont understand what differentiates this population from the rest of the "regular" population?Ever thought to consider that people consider YOU not regular? like i said its just ignorant.

Metal and postcards? I'm not sure what you are talking about, and it sounds like you've probably only been to 4th avenue once in your life and it was probably for a streetfair im guessing? heres a list of everything on 4th and you tell me if this list of shops doesn't cater to a large demographic of people.

Like books? go to Antigones. Like cheap clothes? go to Goodwill or one of the many Thrift Shops. Like Sweets? go to Chocolate Iguana. list goes on and on......:

A Foam and Fabric Place | Antigone Books | Arroyo Design | Barb’s Frame of Mind | Cabat Studios | Celestial Rites | Creations | Creative Ventures | Del Sol | Desert Vintage | Dos Diablos Tattoo World | Everest Souvenirs | Food Conspiracy Co-Op | Fathead Glass | Goodwill | Hippie Gypsy | Hi-Tech Computers | How Sweet It Was | La Iguana Art Gallery | Lollipop Culture Shop | Messages Remembered | Moon Smoke Shop | Nowhere to Land | Olytata | Pop Cycle | Razorz Edge | Roll With It | Sacred Art Tattoo | Sea of Green Hydrogardens | Silver Sea Jewelry | Rustic Candle Company | The Book Stop | The Historic Y | The Other Side | The Outlet Tucson | The Rogue Theatre | Tucson Artistic Gifts | Tucson Thrift Shop | United Fire | WGH Woodworking | ZUZI Dance Co. Bison Witches | Che’s Lounge | IBT’s | Maloney’s | Mr. Heads | O’Malleys | Sky Bar | Surly Wench | The Hut | The Shanty | The Wreck Athens | Bison Witches | Brooklyn Pizza Company | Buddhas Dog House | Bumsted’s | Cafe Marcel | Caruso’s | Chocolate Iguana | Dairy Queen | Delectables | Epic Cafe | Food Conspiracy Co-Op | La Indita | Magpies | Martins Comida Chingona | Maloney’s | Maya Quetzal | Medusa Kabob House | O’Malleys | Pancho Villa’s Grill | The B-Line | The Parlour | World Wide Wrappers


Tell me where else you will find these stores?.... nowhere... thats why 4th Avenue is valuable.

[Ritarancher]

Actually there IS something for everyone on 4th avenue. As someone who actually lives less than a mile away vs someone who lives in Rita Ranch, im pretty sure i have a bit more experience. And again what makes Hippies Hipsters and Protestors not regular people? i dont understand what differentiates this population from the rest of the "regular" population?Ever thought to consider that people consider YOU not regular? like i said its just ignorant.

Metal and postcards? I'm not sure what you are talking about, and it sounds like you've probably only been to 4th avenue once in your life and it was probably for a streetfair im guessing? heres a list of everything on 4th and you tell me if this list of shops doesn't cater to a large demographic of people.

Like books? go to Antigones. Like cheap clothes? go to Goodwill or one of the many Thrift Shops. Like Sweets? go to Chocolate Iguana. list goes on and on......:

A Foam and Fabric Place | Antigone Books | Arroyo Design | Barb’s Frame of Mind | Cabat Studios | Celestial Rites | Creations | Creative Ventures | Del Sol | Desert Vintage | Dos Diablos Tattoo World | Everest Souvenirs | Food Conspiracy Co-Op | Fathead Glass | Goodwill | Hippie Gypsy | Hi-Tech Computers | How Sweet It Was | La Iguana Art Gallery | Lollipop Culture Shop | Messages Remembered | Moon Smoke Shop | Nowhere to Land | Olytata | Pop Cycle | Razorz Edge | Roll With It | Sacred Art Tattoo | Sea of Green Hydrogardens | Silver Sea Jewelry | Rustic Candle Company | The Book Stop | The Historic Y | The Other Side | The Outlet Tucson | The Rogue Theatre | Tucson Artistic Gifts | Tucson Thrift Shop | United Fire | WGH Woodworking | ZUZI Dance Co. Bison Witches | Che’s Lounge | IBT’s | Maloney’s | Mr. Heads | O’Malleys | Sky Bar | Surly Wench | The Hut | The Shanty | The Wreck Athens | Bison Witches | Brooklyn Pizza Company | Buddhas Dog House | Bumsted’s | Cafe Marcel | Caruso’s | Chocolate Iguana | Dairy Queen | Delectables | Epic Cafe | Food Conspiracy Co-Op | La Indita | Magpies | Martins Comida Chingona | Maloney’s | Maya Quetzal | Medusa Kabob House | O’Malleys | Pancho Villa’s Grill | The B-Line | The Parlour | World Wide Wrappers


Tell me where else you will find these stores?.... nowhere... thats why 4th Avenue is valuable.

Your taking this a little harder than you should. All I am saying is that there is no stores for the everyday customer, meaning that there is no Target/Walmart alternative at fourth avenue. Not to be mean but half the stores on your list are actually places to eat, or drink. I do trust that you know more about 4th avenue than me but I consider myself to know a lot more about downtown than most of the population and I still never know much about what they sell there. From the list and my previous experience they don't seem to have much for sale for the 0-35 crowd, with exception of that Hello Kitty Store. I also don't always want clothes from the goodwill, not to offend anybody...:apple:

[Thirsty]

Ritarancher

What is the password to buy drugs at 4th Ave businesses?

Say I want to buy some weed, do I go to Food Conspiracy, wink twice then ask for the "sprouts" while knocking on wood. Or do I go to Bison Witches, knock twice, then ask for the "extra hops" while winking conspicuously? :shrug:

FWIW, when I was in high school, they place to buy was Park Place Mall. In other words, the place people who are afraid to set foot downtown choose to congregate.

[Ted Lyons]

FWIW, when I was in high school, they place to buy was Park Place Mall. In other words, the place people who are afraid to set foot downtown choose to congregate.

Don't tell Ritarancher that the schools with the worst drug problems in Tucson are all out in his neck of the woods.