Tucson Development Thread

[Obadno]

Was pretty excited until I realized it wasn't high-speed rail.

Why would it be high speed? Nowhere in the country is their high-speed why would Phx-Tucson have the first line?:shrug:

[Qwijib0]

Was pretty excited until I realized it wasn't high-speed rail.

Still, ~90min city center to city center is comparable to speeding slightly except I could take a nap instead or go to a concert/sporting event and not worry about drinking. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

[Patrick S]

Why would it be high speed? Nowhere in the country is their high-speed why would Phx-Tucson have the first line?:shrug:
Who said it would be the first? California is working on actual HSR and is way farther along than this project. Since this will most likely link up to California at some point, likely via Las Vegas, I assumed and hoped it would be HSR. This project is still likely many years from being more than a dream, and at the least, California's first HSR lines should have started running long before this is even started.

[Obadno]

Who said it would be the first? California is working on actual HSR and is way farther along than this project. Since this will most likely link up to California at some point, likely via Las Vegas, I assumed and hoped it would be HSR. This project is still likely many years from being more than a dream, and at the least, California's first HSR lines should have started running long before this is even started.

There is a very real possibility that that rail will never be completed. And it is the only one that has ever been proposed with any seriousness in the United States.

It would be great if we could some day get HSR in a loop from San Diego to Tucson to Phoenix to LA (maybe flag or Prescott and Vegas too)

but that is a long long way off. and it wouldn't be feasible until Arizona has several million more residents.

[southtucsonboy77]

Three downtown projects moved forward with tax incentive applications at Wednesday’s Tucson City Council meeting.

Art Wadlund, a developer on the completed One East Broadway project and the proposed One West Broadway project, said incentives are important to developers because lenders are reluctant to finance downtown Tucson projects.

Nothing new has been built downtown in 21 months, he said, and development projects work with the Government Property Lease Excise Tax (GPLET) incentives — but “barely.” “Without a GPLET, it’s impossible,” Wadlund said.

The One East Broadway project was among the first to use the GPLET incentive program.

One West Broadway

The proposed $13 million project would put 40 apartments, retail and office spaces and parking on a lot at the southwest corner of Broadway and Stone Avenue. Construction is expected to begin in December.

The value of the incentive to the developers is $242,700 a year for eight years. The developers, Wadlund and Rob Caylor, also are requesting a rebate of $67,000 in construction sales taxes to put toward streetscape and utility improvements.

After the incentive period, the city expects to receive about $21,000 a year in tax revenue from the project, city economic development specialist Camila Bekat told the council. Currently, as a surface parking lot, the site provides about $850 a year to the city, she said.

The council approved the economic analysis, which is the second step in a three-step process. One additional council action is necessary to approve a lease agreement.

Stone Avenue Homes

This $4.2 million project at 201 S. Stone Ave. “takes an underutilized parking lot and transforms it into 25 town homes, bringing approximately 50 new residents to downtown,” Bekat said.

The developers, Holualoa Cos. and Scotia Group, are requesting a tax abatement of about $68,600 a year for eight years.

As a parking lot, the site provides $815 a year in property taxes to the city, Bekat said. As a housing project, it would provide $6,000 a year to the city after the incentive expires, she said.

The council would still need to approve a lease agreement.

Riverpark Inn

Owner Brian Corbell plans a $2.2 million renovation of the 134-room hotel, at 777 W. Cushing St., to make the hotel more competitive for conventions in downtown Tucson and to expand the Pueblo Gem & Mineral Show.

“The hotel itself has not been profitable for the company as it was first challenged by heavy area construction which obstructed guests from staying at the Riverpark Inn and following that by the hotel’s current poor physical condition that makes it very uncompetitive in the market,” Corbell’s company said in an application for a GPLET incentive.

The council approved the first step in a three-step process. The next step is an economic analysis of the project.

[southtucsonboy77]

I think the Riverpark Hotel needs to be demolished and re-built...not renovated.

I noticed the Theresa Lee Bldg being demolished adjacent to the Cushing Bridge...any idea what's going there?

[farmerk]

Grocery store planned for Broadway and Rosemont (http://tucson.com/news/local/grocery-store-planned-for-broadway-and-rosemont/article_78280bcb-70dd-55a5-80af-efa4e2051030.html)

A new grocery store and shopping center could be coming to an underdeveloped corner of Broadway, but only if the city approves new zoning for the site.

Plans call for a 60,000-square-foot grocery store and six smaller, 4,800-square-foot shops situated around a central parking lot at the southwest corner of Broadway and South Rosemont Boulevard.

The plans drew mixed reactions from neighbors at a city zoning examiner hearing Thursday evening.

Owner Andrew Romo and developer Tom Warne want to rezone about seven acres from residential to commercial zoning.

The shop facades would be made of bricks similar to those used in the surrounding neighborhoods to match the area’s character, Warne said.

He didn’t say what company would operate the grocery store.

The site currently holds a small strip mall, which would be demolished to make way for the new stores, and a seasonal Christmas tree and produce stand.

Some neighbors at the hearing said they support the project because it will improve property values and because it’s not two-story houses, which would be allowed under the current residential zoning.

“I think a grocery store in that neighborhood would be the greatest thing since we moved into the neighborhood in 1972. I’m all for it,” said Mary Riley, who lives in the area northeast of the project.

The Rosemont West Neighborhood Association agreed to support a project with a somewhat smaller scale. Different versions of the plans have made the grocery story bigger and taller, said president Barbara Stoddard.

Warne said he has attended about 20 meetings with the neighborhood.

The rezoning must have the approval of the mayor and City Council.

The zoning examiner also held a hearing for a project to turn a home near Saguaro National Park into a bed and breakfast for bicyclists. The owner, Thomas Danielson, is asking for a special exception to allow him to run the business from his home.

The project is not related to last year’s controversial plan for a larger “bicycle ranch” in the same area. While that plan called for 49 new rooms, this one allows for four existing rooms.

No additional development is planned for the B&B site, which is located on three acres at the northwest corner of Old Spanish Trail and Melpomene Way, near popular bicycling areas and a 10-minute bike ride away from Saguaro National Park.

The site isn’t in the middle of a neighborhood, and immediately behind the property is a cemetery “so there’s obviously minimal impact on those neighbors,” said attorney Pat Lopez.

The city planning department recommended approval of the project.

[aznate27]

There is a very real possibility that that rail will never be completed. And it is the only one that has ever been proposed with any seriousness in the United States.

It would be great if we could some day get HSR in a loop from San Diego to Tucson to Phoenix to LA (maybe flag or Prescott and Vegas too)

but that is a long long way off. and it wouldn't be feasible until Arizona has several million more residents.

They've already started construction on the HSR in California, it's been past proposal stage for a while now. The first phase is due to be completed in 2017.

[southtucsonboy77]

TMC HealthCare is asking the city for a tax incentive for a new medical office project on Tucson’s southeast side.

TMC’s plans call for an $11 million project to be called the TMC Rincon Health Campus at Civano.

It would be a 44,000-square-foot, two-story building at the southeast corner of South Houghton and East Drexel roads. Patients could visit a primary-care clinic, a pediatric clinic, a wound-care center and specialists.

Construction is expected to begin by the end of the year, with the second floor built as a shell space for future development. The campus could open in September 2016, said TMC Vice President.

I'm all for infilling land within the City limits...while addressing a community need.

[Patrick S]

TMC HealthCare is asking the city for a tax incentive for a new medical office project on Tucson’s southeast side.

TMC’s plans call for an $11 million project to be called the TMC Rincon Health Campus at Civano.

It would be a 44,000-square-foot, two-story building at the southeast corner of South Houghton and East Drexel roads. Patients could visit a primary-care clinic, a pediatric clinic, a wound-care center and specialists.

Construction is expected to begin by the end of the year, with the second floor built as a shell space for future development. The campus could open in September 2016, said TMC Vice President.

I'm all for infilling land within the City limits...while addressing a community need.
I'm all for this project and agree that it fits a community need for healthcare on the southeast side (a sorely underserved part of town that is one of the two fastest parts of Tucson), but this is hardly infill, in the traditional sense at least. Though there is a neighborhood directly east, north and south of it, across Houghton to the west is wide open desert for a mile or so until you hit DMAFB, and not far south of it is another mile or so stretch of open desert before you hit the northern part of the Rita Ranch area. By all measures this is a sign of urban sprawl, serving the far-flung outskirt portions of the city. But, again, it is a needed service in the area. It's warranted by the fact that there is a big, and growing, population in that area. This will also, likely, make the area more desirable to live in (along with the planned stand-alone ER that Northwest Hospital is planning to build out by the new Walmart on Houghton/Mary Ann Cleveland Way).

[farmerk]

There is a very real possibility that that rail will never be completed. And it is the only one that has ever been proposed with any seriousness in the United States.

It would be great if we could some day get HSR in a loop from San Diego to Tucson to Phoenix to LA (maybe flag or Prescott and Vegas too)

but that is a long long way off. and it wouldn't be feasible until Arizona has several million more residents.

Rail Projects in the U.S.A. (http://thestashed.com/2015/09/17/us-and-china-to-build-high-speed-rail-between-los-angeles-and-las-vegas/?utm_source=STASHED&utm_medium=twitter)


Whether it’s the gambling, night life, or boxing bouts, Las Vegas has long been one of the premier destinations in the Western United States for those with money to blow. And thanks to a new deal between parties in the US and China, ground transportation from Los Angeles to Sin City will soon be just as fast as flying there on a plane.

After four years of negotiations, a private US venture and the China Railway Group have reached an agreement to launch XpressWest, a high-speed railway that will transport travelers the 230 miles from LA to Las Vegas in approximately 80 minutes. Traveling at speeds of 150 mph, the railway will be a far more efficient trip than the usual four-hour drive between the two cities.

Marking China’s first high-speed rail project on U.S. soil, construction of the XpressWest will start with $100 million of initial funding, with the long-term cost of the project expected to be around $7 billion. The railway has only received funding from the private sector thus far, but applications for loans from the Federal Railway Administration have already been filed. Construction on the railway is expected to begin in September 2016.

XpressWest isn’t the nation’s only new high-speed railway under way. There’s also a proposed train from Dallas to Houston, which would be a replica of Japan’s shinkansen, or bullet train. California, although undecided on which country’s trains will serve as a muse, has already started construction on its own high-speed railway.

Earlier this year, China signed a $567 million deal to bring regular-speed trains to Boston last year. The deal marked the first stateside railway venture for the Chinese.

[Patrick S]

Lots of news out of the last city council meeting:

City Council approves downtown deal, TMC incentive (http://tucson.com/news/local/city-council-approves-downtown-deal-tmc-incentive/article_31ecc1a4-f24c-5c8f-9c11-3755b0c36190.html)

The Tucson City Council gave the go-ahead to a major hotel project in downtown Tucson when it signed an agreement Thursday with Rio Nuevo and Nor-Generations.

The agreement lets Rio Nuevo take over as landlord of the temporary Greyhound bus station currently on the site of the proposed hotel development. That expedites the relocation of the station, allows Rio Nuevo to close on the sale of its part of the site to developer Nor-Generations, and allows the developer to move more quickly on construction.

Rio Nuevo chair Fletcher McCusker told the council this project is an opportunity to preserve the gem shows, which are a major contributor to Tucson’s economy and which need more hotel and exhibition space downtown.

The relocation of the Greyhound station had threatened to derail the project, but the parties came to an agreement before next week’s deadline for the procurement contract. McCusker said he is committed to working with the city to make sure the relocation is a coordinated effort.

Council member Steve Kozachik said the agreement is an example of the evolving positive relationship between the city and Rio Nuevo.

TMC INCENTIVE

The council approved a tax incentive deal for TMC HealthCare to build an $11 million medical office building at the southeast corner of South Houghton and East Drexel roads.

TMC qualified for the Primary Jobs Incentive program by making a large capital investment and by creating 22 new jobs that pay above-average wages. The project will create about 60 jobs, with room to grow.

The city expects to receive more than $286,000 in new tax revenue over five years from the project.

TMC will get an 88 percent discount on building permit fees and will be allowed to apply 88 percent of the construction sales taxes from the project to offset impact fees. The value of the incentive is about $120,000.

The building, to be called the TMC Rincon Health Campus at Civano, is expected to open in September 2016.

In other action, the council finalized a Primary Jobs Incentive deal for the new Comcast customer service center at 4690 N. Oracle Road and finalized a site-specific sales tax incentive for Main Gate Partners, which plans to build a new hotel in the university area.

[farmerk]

El Rio Broadway Branch relocates to 22nd/Kino (https://arizona.localco.net/el-rio-buys-city-land-at-kino22nd/)

"....
El Rio will relocate operations from its Broadway Health Center, on Broadway east of Euclid Avenue, to the new property in the South Park neighborhood. The health care provider plans to build an 18,600-square-foot facility on the land.

El Rio is moving the health center because the Broadway widening project would have required the city to acquire the Broadway Health Center, said Nancy Johnson, chief operating officer for El Rio.
...."


In other news, Gadsden's downtown west project still hasn't taken off. I drove by that area today and it's still an empty lot filled with dust.

[InTheBurbs]

Best Cities for Millennials

According to Money Magazine (http://time.com/money/4000798/best-places-millennials/) Tucson is the 4th best large city in the country for Millennials, behind Austin (of course), Atlanta, and Columbus, and just ahead of Seattle.

Though it might see sleepy to outsiders, Tucson is a bit of a hidden gem for Millennials, thanks in part to a revitalized downtown, including a big new supermarket and a range of ethnic restaurants...

They also say that Moody's projects a job increase of about 11% over the next 5 years, compared to a national average of about 9%. They didn't say what kinds of jobs though.

[farmerk]

After 40 years, new movies are returning downtown (http://tucson.com/entertainment/blogs/caliente-tuned-in/after-years-new-movies-are-returning-downtown/article_5b32b78d-ec38-5ebd-803a-a986a2a6090a.html#utm_source=tucson&utm_campaign=most-popular-tabs-2&utm_medium=direct)

For the first time in 40 years, downtown Tucson will have a first-run movie theater.

The Screening Room, 127 E. Congress St., will begin showing current releases next month when Grand Cinemas takes over daily operations from the nonprofit Arizona Media Arts Center. The theater will also show independent films and will continue to host the annual Arizona International Film Festival, said Grand Cinemas managing partner Kent Edwards.

Tucson-based Grand Cinemas quietly began an extensive renovation of the theater in mid-May, weeks after Grand Cinemas closed its Crossroads 6 theaters on East Grant Road. In addition to plumbing and electrical upgrades, the $100,000 project includes a new state-of-the-art screen and seats, an expanded snack bar and a $45,000 HD digital cinema projector like the ones used by multiplex companies including Harkins and Cinemark. The theater will seat 120 people.

This will be the first time since Fox Tucson Theatre at the west end of Congress closed in 1974 that folks can go downtown to catch a movie still playing at the multiplex. Fox, once the Hollywood heartbeat of Tucson, closed after suburban malls lured people from downtown. After a multimillion-dollar taxpayer-funded renovation, it reopened in 2005 as a multiuse venue that includes screenings of classic films, along with concerts and other live events.

Arizona Media Arts Center Director Giulio Scalinger opened the Screening Room in 1989 as an incubator and champion of independent filmmaking. He launched the international film festival the following year, and one of the theaters involved in the early years was Grand Cinema’s now-closed Grand View 4 on West Valencia Road. Grand Cinema has been a regular partner in the festival since 2002, hosting screenings at Crossroads through this year’s festival in April.

Scalinger said the Arizona International Film Festival, held every April for the last 24 years, has become too big of a job alongside running the theater. So after years of dancing around the idea of bringing in an outside theater operator, he and Edwards entered serious negotiations this year.

“We just felt that he supported what we were doing with independent film, and we just thought he would be a good entity,” Scalinger said.

A full-time movie theater also fits into the latest downtown resurrection. Fueled by the promise of the streetcar set to begin rolling next month, dozens of new restaurants and clubs have sprung up downtown in the past two years. A boutique hotel — the downtown area’s first since 1976 — is in the works, and a grocery store is set to open in December to meet the needs of residents who have moved into the Cadence student housing complex and other housing developments circling the area.

“This is terrific timing,” said Downtown Tucson Partnership CEO Michael Keith. “Downtown is becoming a more exciting place to be. You are going to see a whole lot of new retailers and restaurants coming in the next six months. It’s getting crazy good down here.”

“It’s going to be pretty exciting that I can hop on the streetcar from work and go down and see a movie,” said Mia Schnaible, who works at the University of Arizona and has volunteered a dozen years to do marketing and development for the Arizona International Film Festival. “All the people downtown, especially west of I-10, this will be their theater now. It is going to be the only theater on the streetcar line, and 100,000 people live (and work) within a mile of the streetcar line, so this is huge for Tucson.”

Grand Cinemas has a long-term lease with the Arizona Media Arts Center, and Edwards said he anticipates they will be downtown for the long haul.

“I think the theater is going to do well, and I hope it is supported by the community — not just people who want to go downtown on a Saturday night but people who work there and want to come in and see a movie,” he said. “There’s a lot of restaurants and there’s entertainment downtown. I think all we are going to do is complement them.”

Grand Cinemas operates one other Tucson movie house, the six-screen, discount Oracle View theater near the Tucson Mall. In April, the company ended a 13-year run at the Crossroads theaters, which will open this fall as a restaurant-theater concept called Roadhouse Cinemas.

Grand Cinemas ran the 12-screen Tower Theatres in Marana — the area’s only independently owned cineplex — for more than five years before losing its lease in spring 2013 after years of financial hardships.

“We have had a rough time,” Edwards admitted. “Our departure from Tower Theatres was humbling. I think we have learned from it and we can move forward.”

....................................................................................

"grocery store is set to open in December" - another grocery store opening downtown (in addition to Johnny Gibsons?).

[crzyabe]

[B][SIZE="4"] "grocery store is set to open in December" - another grocery store opening downtown (in addition to Johnny Gibsons?).

I believe this is an old article from last year. They mention that the streetcar is not running yet. The Screeening Room did show some new-sih movies over the past year.

[ArbyW]

I hear Cirrus Visual is about to start a remodel at their new location on the NW corner of Stone and 5th St. Downtown is pushing north.

http://gis.pima.gov/maps/mapguide/dotmap65.mwf?ObjectLinkTarget=ObjectLink&ReportTarget=Report&LAT=32.229107&LON=-110.971960&WIDTH=388.526394&UNITS=ft&EXT=.MWF

[Patrick S]

I believe this is an old article from last year. They mention that the streetcar is not running yet. The Screeening Room did show some new-sih movies over the past year.
Yeah, the article says it is from June, 2014.

[farmerk]

I believe this is an old article from last year. They mention that the streetcar is not running yet. The Screeening Room did show some new-sih movies over the past year.

You're right! I swear I saw it front page at Tucson.com last night. Need to check the dates next time. Thanks.


University of Arizona uses temporary housing to keep freshman on its campus (http://www.kvoa.com/story/30136309/university-of-arizona-uses-temporary-housing-to-keep-freshman-on-its-campus)

Sept 28th 2015.

Hopefully UofA builds more high rise dorms in the near future.

[Patrick S]

It's back:

http://www.tucsonmarketplaceatthebridges.com/

[farmerk]

It's back:

http://www.tucsonmarketplaceatthebridges.com/

Not much has changed.

[Patrick S]

Not much has changed.

Beyond the front page which says that the theatre is on its way, I couldn't find anything that had changed. Don't know why it took almost 2 months to update that.

[T'Town]

Monier Apartments went out for General Contractor bids this week. Plans are 100% complete. Looks like this project is progressing.

[crzyabe]

Monier Apartments went out for General Contractor bids this week. Plans are 100% complete. Looks like this project is progressing.

Any link to the plans or bid package? I am wondering what the current design looks like compared to the concept images that have been floating around.

[Ted Lyons]

Monier Apartments went out for General Contractor bids this week. Plans are 100% complete. Looks like this project is progressing.

Nice update. The minutes for the most recent Rio Nuevo meeting aren't posted yet but Gadsden officials were very confident of imminent progress in their presentation at the August Rio Nuevo meeting.

[T'Town]

Upon a brief look at the architectural plans the building looks to be the same as the one on the Gadsen website. 3 Floors above ground totaling 128 units/166,306 SF and a subterranean garage.

[farmerk]

Monier Apartments went out for General Contractor bids this week. Plans are 100% complete. Looks like this project is progressing.

That's a nice looking apartment complex (at least from the renderings). I hope it gets built. However, I'll believe it's finished after the last brick has been laid in this building.

[farmerk]

TIBO Tucson developments and improvement forum new site (https://tibotucson.wordpress.com/)

"TIBO is back! ...Unfortunately most of our old content was lost but we will do our best to get everything back up and continue posting new developments in the Tucson area!"

I googled 'monier brick yard tucson' and ended finding the ol' TIBO site back. The old site was shutdown for some reason.

[kaneui]

Could downtown's fourth 200+' tower be for apartments or condos? Not since the failed TCC hotel proposal has there been talk of a tower of this height for downtown:

http://tucson.com/business/local/residential-tower-might-join-downtown-landmark/article_7512ddc4-bd8e-5eeb-8e0d-0cb9503c59a5.html


For a bit of nostalgia, here's an old rendering of a twin office tower proposed for the site years ago (plus another across the street where the One West Broadway apartments will go up):

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/UniSourceTower2-render.jpg
(courtesy: Arizona Daily Star)

[Ted Lyons]

Could downtown's fourth 200+' tower be for apartments or condos? Not since the failed TCC hotel proposal has there been talk of a tower of this height for downtown:

http://tucson.com/business/local/residential-tower-might-join-downtown-landmark/article_7512ddc4-bd8e-5eeb-8e0d-0cb9503c59a5.html


For a bit of nostalgia, here's an old rendering of a twin office tower proposed for the site years ago (plus another across the street where the One West Broadway apartments will go up):

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/UniSourceTower2-render.jpg
(courtesy: Arizona Daily Star)

Hmm. Early days, but exciting nonetheless. Really hope they don't go with the twin towers approach.

[farmerk]

Could downtown's fourth 200+' tower be for apartments or condos? Not since the failed TCC hotel proposal has there been talk of a tower of this height for downtown:

http://tucson.com/business/local/residential-tower-might-join-downtown-landmark/article_7512ddc4-bd8e-5eeb-8e0d-0cb9503c59a5.html


For a bit of nostalgia, here's an old rendering of a twin office tower proposed for the site years ago (plus another across the street where the One West Broadway apartments will go up):

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/UniSourceTower2-render.jpg
(courtesy: Arizona Daily Star)

Thanks for posting this.

Owners : " We’re very excited to be improving the building. "

"Once the existing structure is improved, developers want to erect a second, residential tower on the adjacent, vacant pad."

“The second tower site is very early on in the process,” Fenton said. There are no detailed plans for the future project, which could be as tall as 330 feet."

EDIT : I hope the second building will be 330 plus feet.

[southtucsonboy77]

Could downtown's fourth 200+' tower be for apartments or condos? Not since the failed TCC hotel proposal has there been talk of a tower of this height for downtown:

http://tucson.com/business/local/residential-tower-might-join-downtown-landmark/article_7512ddc4-bd8e-5eeb-8e0d-0cb9503c59a5.html


For a bit of nostalgia, here's an old rendering of a twin office tower proposed for the site years ago (plus another across the street where the One West Broadway apartments will go up):

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/UniSourceTower2-render.jpg
(courtesy: Arizona Daily Star)

I hope they're not teasing us with this! If they go "twin tower"...then I'd be okay with that. But if they went with a little change in design/architecture it would be even more exciting.

Just a thought: If some redevelopment were to occur for the SE corner of Broadway/Stone...then (relative speaking) that intersection would be the only mid- to high-rise 4 corners in the region.

[somethingfast]

Ha, I remember seeing that rendering way back in 1986 during the halcyon days of commercial construction around the country and Arizona (even Tucson!). I think Tucson Weekly was the mag that printed this pic in its yearly round-up of ongoing/planned projects. Needless to say, many of those projects never saw the light of day given the S&L crisis that quickly unraveled it all. But to my 13-year-old eyes, that pic was pure fantasy land...couldn't wait to see two more towers go up (not). Anyway, that pic definitely takes me back to an Arizona that was flying high in '86 and there were some heady dreams up in Phoenix (remember Wolfswinkel???) for MASSIVE towers all over Phoenix. Another mag around the same time put up a centerfold spread of all the "future state" projects in Phoenix through 1992 or so. Needless to say, it was all pipe dreams and the bubble burst quickly. Nostalgia...(sigh)

[Ted Lyons]

Some new quotes on the proposed new building:

“We want to start planning for the second tower as soon as possible,” Karber told us. “The existing building at One South Church is 330 feet tall, we would like to make the new tower just slightly taller, maybe 350 feet, just to redefine ‘the tallest building’ downtown as one more recently constructed.”

https://realestatedaily-news.com/tucson-based-aerie-development-acquires-one-south-church-32-million/

[southtucsonboy77]

Some new quotes on the proposed new building:

“We want to start planning for the second tower as soon as possible,” Karber told us. “The existing building at One South Church is 330 feet tall, we would like to make the new tower just slightly taller, maybe 350 feet, just to redefine ‘the tallest building’ downtown as one more recently constructed.”

https://realestatedaily-news.com/tucson-based-aerie-development-acquires-one-south-church-32-million/

That is awesome thinking.

[somethingfast]

That is awesome thinking.

This kind of thinking is pretty prevalent (ahem) all over the world. That it stands out as unique in Arizona says volumes. Wouldn't it be ironic if it were Tucson and not Phoenix that got a new tallest considering it's been nearly 30 years since ANYTHING of height was built in downtown Tucson and Phoenix has had plenty of chances join the late 20th century...let alone this one.

[farmerk]

Another article about the proposed tallest building in Tucson.

NEW OWNERS HAVE LOFTY GOALS FOR CITY’S TALLEST BUILDING (http://www.downtowntucson.org/2015/10/new-owners-lofty-goals-citys-tallest-building/)

[Patrick S]

This kind of thinking is pretty prevalent (ahem) all over the world. That it stands out as unique in Arizona says volumes. Wouldn't it be ironic if it were Tucson and not Phoenix that got a new tallest considering it's been nearly 30 years since ANYTHING of height was built in downtown Tucson and Phoenix has had plenty of chances join the late 20th century...let alone this one.
Give me Tucson over Phoenix any day. Maybe I'm not reading your quote right (it could be the grammatical error) but I'm not understanding your quote. Phoenix has 12 buildings of at least 350 feet, 4 of which were completed in 2000 or later. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Phoenix)

[Patrick S]

I figured once they announced the theatre that restaurants would start going in to the area, and this seems to indicate that. This update from September 30th of this year shows there may be a Dave & Busters going in at the Tucson Marketplace at the Bridges. (http://www.landadvisors.com/pdf/AZ-Pima-127983.pdf)

[andrewsaturn]

http://azbex.com/tucson-arena-site-project-moves-forward/

According to this article, Alan Norville has purchased the arena site moving the project closer to reality.

[Thirsty]

Give me Tucson over Phoenix any day. Maybe I'm not reading your quote right (it could be the grammatical error) but I'm not understanding your quote. Phoenix has 12 buildings of at least 350 feet, 4 of which were completed in 2000 or later. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Phoenix)

I believe somethingfast was talking about building a tallest building in a city. Meaning it has been 43 years since a new project has been "crowned" tallest building in Phoenix.

[ComplotDesigner]

The HUB at Tucson II - 101115

http://i.imgur.com/QFerTHj.jpg

[farmerk]

I figured once they announced the theatre that restaurants would start going in to the area, and this seems to indicate that. This update from September 30th of this year shows there may be a Dave & Busters going in at the Tucson Marketplace at the Bridges. (http://www.landadvisors.com/pdf/AZ-Pima-127983.pdf)

That spot would be a good place to live considering that most of the daily amenities are available within walking distance. You'd be walking within a residential setting as in you won't be walking a sidewalk besides a major road like Broadway or Oracle.

I hope someone builds some high quality mid or high rise apts/condos in that area.

[southtucsonboy77]

Hotel Development Next In Line At Marana Center (https://realestatedaily-news.com/hotel-development-next-line-marana-center/)

Not breaking news, but this article reveals a Marriott-brand hotel and potentially a new restaurant (aside from the automall) are coming to fruition.

Freeway-frontage development and aesthetics are extemely important for Tucson, especially I-10. With all the gravel pits, wastewater facilities, Old Spanish Trail blighted signs (and others), empty-temp gem show lots...Tucson doesn't have the most welcoming gateway. Yes, we have our beautiful mountains down the distance, but most travelers are looking directly what's in front of them. Driving through El Paso this summer it was amazing to see how even that city had its commerical and business core centered around I-10...where Tucson as a region is just coming around to it. With this development and Tucson Marketplace...its a move in the right direction. Better late than never.

[southtucsonboy77]

Grand Canyon University has dropped plans to open a sizable satellite campus in southeast Mesa next fall, opting to concentrate on its Phoenix location as it attempts to overhaul its business model... (http://azbex.com/gcu-drops-mesa-campus-plan-for-now/)

Very interesting.

[crzyabe]

Very interesting.

Looks like Tucson got a little lucky on this one.

[Obadno]

Grand Canyon University has dropped plans to open a sizable satellite campus in southeast Mesa next fall, opting to concentrate on its Phoenix location as it attempts to overhaul its business model... (http://azbex.com/gcu-drops-mesa-campus-plan-for-now/)

Very interesting.

Im not following? Why is this interesting?

Is there some rumbling that GCU would do a Tucson campus instead?

[crzyabe]

Bourn project gets city incentive worth $748K (http://tucson.com/business/local/bourn-project-gets-city-incentive-worth-k/article_e2cd873e-36d6-5a05-8f53-6c73241798a7.html#utm_source=tucson&utm_campaign=most-popular-tabs-2&utm_medium=direct)

[crzyabe]

Im not following? Why is this interesting?

Is there some rumbling that GCU would do a Tucson campus instead?

GCU was interested in a campus in Tucson a few years ago. They thought about the El Rio Golf course at Speedway and Silverbell. If that had moved forward, it would have probably been in the same situation as the Mesa campus is in currently.

At least that is how I read the situation

[southtucsonboy77]

Im not following? Why is this interesting?

Is there some rumbling that GCU would do a Tucson campus instead?

To add to what crazyabe stated...there was some controversy with the selection of the El Rio Golf Course as a potential site. It was alleged that it was done in secret...and its in a "barrio" with Mex-American roots...and the City are idiots, etc etc. There were other potential sites in the metro area, for example in Marana by the Outlet Mall. But the El Rio site received the most attention.

[southtucsonboy77]

"Plans will be outlined Thursday at a public hearing with the city of Tucson zoning examiner. Many residents said they are in favor of the growth..." (http://www.kvoa.com/story/30321549/major-developments-planned-for-banner-umc-tucson-campus)

There's also a rendering in the article.

[Thirsty]

From the Daily Star.

20 million tamales: Tucson company plans big expansion (http://tucson.com/business/local/million-tamales-tucson-company-plans-big-expansion/article_e25d4c29-4e64-50ea-a28e-d7229429e2cb.html)

Tucson Tamale Co. expanding beyond AZ.

Facility going in near Grant & I-10. Plans to hire 30-40.

[kmiller5]

New plan for the Thrifty Block. I like the building. Hopefully this one actually comes to fruition.

http://m.tucson.com/news/local/rio-nuevo-approves-new-direction-for-vacant-congress-street-lot/article_2f3cd037-6c64-5866-8147-96ff992d1209.html?mobile_touch=true

Couple other updates: people have been working in the former Saint House for a few weeks. I believe Elvira is going in there. The AC Tucson has been sloooooww going. Still no concrete being poured. The Arizona Hotel building has been pretty busy, too. The Downtown Motor Lodge has been demo'd to put in the 4 story low-income housing project.

Does anyone know anything about whether the Stone Avenue Homes and Monier Brick Yard will actually start this winter? I really want the Brick Yard to happen.

[InTheBurbs]

New plan for the Thrifty Block. I like the building. Hopefully this one actually comes to fruition.


http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/3c/53c99778-40e2-540a-8b82-c65e1ac922f5/56300cc104bb2.image.jpg?resize=620%2C397
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/b2/ab24e49b-8d00-5fe2-8287-ae5fe5c38921/56300cc0b1c67.image.jpg?resize=620%2C400
Images: Bourn Companies/Arizona Daily Star

This new plan looks more appropriate for the middle of downtown. More substantial. And no parking lot.

[Ted Lyons]

New plan for the Thrifty Block. I like the building. Hopefully this one actually comes to fruition.

http://m.tucson.com/news/local/rio-nuevo-approves-new-direction-for-vacant-congress-street-lot/article_2f3cd037-6c64-5866-8147-96ff992d1209.html?mobile_touch=true

Couple other updates: people have been working in the former Saint House for a few weeks. I believe Elvira is going in there. The AC Tucson has been sloooooww going. Still no concrete being poured. The Arizona Hotel building has been pretty busy, too. The Downtown Motor Lodge has been demo'd to put in the 4 story low-income housing project.

Does anyone know anything about whether the Stone Avenue Homes and Monier Brick Yard will actually start this winter? I really want the Brick Yard to happen.

Love the fact that there's no parking lot. I also think the food court idea, which is taking off in other cities, is ideal for Tucson given the lack of capital resources but plethora of creative people.

This article doesn't discuss it but I know Gadsden Companies was back on the Rio Nuevo agenda this month so I bet there was a Brickyard update in there somewhere. We'll have to wait for the minutes to be published.

[Thirsty]

New plan for the Thrifty Block. I like the building. Hopefully this one actually comes to fruition.

http://m.tucson.com/news/local/rio-nuevo-approves-new-direction-for-vacant-congress-street-lot/article_2f3cd037-6c64-5866-8147-96ff992d1209.html?mobile_touch=true

Couple other updates: people have been working in the former Saint House for a few weeks. I believe Elvira is going in there. The AC Tucson has been sloooooww going. Still no concrete being poured. The Arizona Hotel building has been pretty busy, too. The Downtown Motor Lodge has been demo'd to put in the 4 story low-income housing project.

Does anyone know anything about whether the Stone Avenue Homes and Monier Brick Yard will actually start this winter? I really want the Brick Yard to happen.

What's going on at the Arizona Hotel building?

[T'Town]

New plan for the Thrifty Block. I like the building. Hopefully this one actually comes to fruition.

http://m.tucson.com/news/local/rio-nuevo-approves-new-direction-for-vacant-congress-street-lot/article_2f3cd037-6c64-5866-8147-96ff992d1209.html?mobile_touch=true

Couple other updates: people have been working in the former Saint House for a few weeks. I believe Elvira is going in there. The AC Tucson has been sloooooww going. Still no concrete being poured. The Arizona Hotel building has been pretty busy, too. The Downtown Motor Lodge has been demo'd to put in the 4 story low-income housing project.

Does anyone know anything about whether the Stone Avenue Homes and Monier Brick Yard will actually start this winter? I really want the Brick Yard to happen.

Stone Avenue Homes will be starting construction soon. A local homebuilder will be building them. I would expect it to start within a couple months.

[Ted Lyons]

What's going on at the Arizona Hotel building?

Renovation to apartments upstairs and coworking space in the basement, IIRC. I believe Miss Saigon is temporarily closed because of the construction.

[ppdd]

To add to what crazyabe stated...there was some controversy with the selection of the El Rio Golf Course as a potential site. It was alleged that it was done in secret...and its in a "barrio" with Mex-American roots...and the City are idiots, etc etc. There were other potential sites in the metro area, for example in Marana by the Outlet Mall. But the El Rio site received the most attention.

The El Rio site was the only viable site for GCU, but yes, I think they would be in this situation either way and the city would be sitting on a decommissioned golf course with GCU on hold. (Probably forever.)

[ppdd]

Renovation to apartments upstairs and coworking space in the basement, IIRC. I believe Miss Saigon is temporarily closed because of the construction.

Yup, so I wish they would hurry up and get the one at Broadway and Craycroft open! (replacing Just Desserts).

[southtucsonboy77]

Love the fact that there's no parking lot. I also think the food court idea, which is taking off in other cities, is ideal for Tucson given the lack of capital resources but plethora of creative people.

This article doesn't discuss it but I know Gadsden Companies was back on the Rio Nuevo agenda this month so I bet there was a Brickyard update in there somewhere. We'll have to wait for the minutes to be published.

At the very bottom of the article they had this:

Other action

In other action, the Rio Nuevo board on Tuesday also approved spending:

• $1.4 million to $1.7 million to buy a site and construct a building to lease to the Greyhound as the new site for a bus station, which is temporarily located in downtown Tucson.

• Up to $855,000 for a drainage project on South Granada Avenue near the Tucson Convention Center.

• $20,000 to sponsor a downtown block party related to the new college football bowl game.

If, once and for all, Bourn can start construction in March...I will have a drink to honor all those lost years of blight and inactivity.

And...I also like the new rendering and concept(s).

[crzyabe]

The AC Tucson has been sloooooww going. Still no concrete being poured.

The rumor with the AC Marriot delay is that an old gas tank was found when digging began. The gas tank could result in contamination on the surrounding dirt and the developer now had to gain an environemental clearance before construction could continue. The financial institution supplying the funding withheld ongoing payments until the environmental clearance was acquired. My understanding is that the clearance has been acquired and work will now pick up.

[southtucsonboy77]

According to reports, Samsung paid $200 million to buy Smart Things last year, a tech startup in 2012.

It's expanding in downtown Tucson, and is looking for tech savvy graduates and tech engineers.

Smart Things technology is used to make life easier, according to Christopher Porter, a Samsung manager at its new offices on Congress Street. (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/30379055/samsung-expanding-in-downtown-tucson)

[farmerk]

According to reports, Samsung paid $200 million to buy Smart Things last year, a tech startup in 2012.

It's expanding in downtown Tucson, and is looking for tech savvy graduates and tech engineers.

Smart Things technology is used to make life easier, according to Christopher Porter, a Samsung manager at its new offices on Congress Street. (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/30379055/samsung-expanding-in-downtown-tucson)

Nice to see a big company open shop downtown.

I believe those Samsung positions are tech support positions.

[ppdd]

Nice to see a big company open shop downtown.

I believe those Samsung positions are tech support positions.

FWIW, I think their office is the second floor if Reilly Craft Pizza.

[Ritarancher]

So I'm guessing the question on everyone's mind is how on Earth is century going to open by June? No signs of construction are visible and there's no fencing around the specific site.:shrug:
I'm really hoping that the theaters get the ball rolling on that shopping center

[kaneui]

Recent engineering reports indicate that Rio Nuevo's properties west of I-10--mainly the 30+acres south of Mission Lane down to Starr Pass Blvd.--are facing upwards of $44M in cleanup costs to make the parcel developable (methane emissions on the former city landfill are apparently five times over environmental limits). Rio Nuevo is now hiring environmental experts to determine what the highest and best use of the land could be. (Perhaps they could apply for federal funds for brownfield cleanups?)

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/30367434/rio-nuevo-working-to-repurpose-30-acres-of-land-near-downtown

I'm guessing the acreage between Cushing St. and Mission Lane is also affected, but perhaps not as significantly (e.g., the parcel designated for the proposed county visitor's center at the SWC of Cushing and the Santa Cruz River is estimated to require $2M for soil remediation according to the project details in bond Prop. 426, although actual costs could be higher).

In hindsight, I'm rather surprised that these studies weren't completed years ago when many big local museums and cultural institutions were going to build and relocate in this area--even though those plans were eventually scuttled by the economic downturn.

In somewhat related news, Friends of Tucson's Birthplace--the stewards of recreating, planting and managing the Mission Garden--have been told by the county that they can't build their planned support building inside the garden walls, as they believe any sewer lines would disturb existing archeological remains. (Hopefully the county can make an exception here, as the FOTB already has an approved plan to complete the garden, and has committed funds from Rio Nuevo to do it.) However, if the county won't budge, then Rio Nuevo has to agree to allow the building to be built outside the wall, on property they own.


This article doesn't discuss it but I know Gadsden Companies was back on the Rio Nuevo agenda this month so I bet there was a Brickyard update in there somewhere. We'll have to wait for the minutes to be published.

According to the following article, the Smart Things office is located in Bourn's recently renovated Chase Bank Annex, and any action on Gadsden's Mercado San Agustin Annex is tabled until the November board meeting.

https://realestatedaily-news.com/rio-nuevo-moves-swiftly-to-relocate-the-greyhound-terminal/

[cdsuofa]

Seriously how are these tests just now being done? So much incompetence going on with Rio Nuevo.

[Ted Lyons]

Seriously how are these tests just now being done? So much incompetence going on with Rio Nuevo.

Not really the fault of the current iteration of Rio Nuevo. They've been working on this issue for a long time. It comes up at a lot of their meetings.

[Ted Lyons]

According to the following article, the Smart Things office is located in Bourn's recently renovated Chase Bank Annex, and any action on Gadsden's Mercado San Agustin Annex is tabled until the November board meeting.

https://realestatedaily-news.com/rio-nuevo-moves-swiftly-to-relocate-the-greyhound-terminal/

Good find. I hate the new RED design. I can't find anything on there now.

[Ritarancher]

So it seems that voters have selected to initiate proposition 425. I was most worried about that one passing. I think that new freeway plan is essential in keeping Raytheon and other companies like that. Especially if Tucson wants as many distribution centers as Phoenix. That road will make a prime area for that.

[Thirsty]

So it seems that voters have selected to initiate proposition 425. I was most worried about that one passing. I think that new freeway plan is essential in keeping Raytheon and other companies like that. Especially if Tucson wants as many distribution centers as Phoenix. That road will make a prime area for that.

'No' votes have it. 54/46

All Pima County Bonds Fail: (election results) (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/30428945/election-bond-propositions-passfail)

[Thirsty]

Tucson ranked 4th best city for confrences (https://smartasset.com/mortgage/best-cities-for-conferences)

[combusean]

Even *public safety* and *flood control* bonds failed in Pima County?

What possible explanation is there for that?

[Patrick S]

Even *public safety* and *flood control* bonds failed in Pima County?

What possible explanation is there for that?
Tea Party voters and old people. One of my favorite quotes is an ancient Greek proverb: "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." - Yesterday's voters don't care about planting seeds for future generations. The county have should held off on the bonds until next year when more people would have come out to vote. The only people that went out to vote yesterday were those passionate about this either way. The casual voter who may have voted yes didn't go vote yesterday.

[crzyabe]

Even *public safety* and *flood control* bonds failed in Pima County?

What possible explanation is there for that?

I was told that placing Bond elections in off election years is not advisable. You get a different type of voter who can be hostile to bonds. I wonder if the outcome would be different had they waited until 2016.

[Ted Lyons]

Even *public safety* and *flood control* bonds failed in Pima County?

What possible explanation is there for that?

Abject idiocy.

[crzyabe]

I have heard that Fox Concepts (Zin Burger, Wild Flower, North, etc) is planning on opening a restaurant at the corner of Grant Road and Tucson Blvd called The Yard.

[andrewsaturn]

Tea Party voters and old people. One of my favorite quotes is an ancient Greek proverb: "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." - Yesterday's voters don't care about planting seeds for future generations. The county have should held off on the bonds until next year when more people would have come out to vote. The only people that went out to vote yesterday were those passionate about this either way. The casual voter who may have voted yes didn't go vote yesterday.

It makes sense considering ALL the bonds failed even the good ones like highway and road improvement as well as parks and recreation facilities. It was kind of a sad day in Tucson for me but I'm hopeful for the future. I know there are more yes votes than what the results indicates.

[Ted Lyons]

I have heard that Fox Concepts (Zin Burger, Wild Flower, North, etc) is planning on opening a restaurant at the corner of Grant Road and Tucson Blvd called The Yard.

Any idea of the specific building? What a weird intersection to choose. I know the one in Phoenix is pretty well respected.

[Tucson85713]

It makes sense considering ALL the bonds failed even the good ones like highway and road improvement as well as parks and recreation facilities. It was kind of a sad day in Tucson for me but I'm hopeful for the future. I know there are more yes votes than what the results indicates.

True but it's too early to cry defeat! We must wait untill all the ballots are counted.

[crzyabe]

Any idea of the specific building? What a weird intersection to choose. I know the one in Phoenix is pretty well respected.

I did not see plans, just a prelim discussion on needs. I believe they are looking at the Northeast corner of the intersection which I assume means just north of the car wash there. I agree that the location seems strange, but I assume they know what they are doing.

[Ted Lyons]

I did not see plans, just a prelim discussion on needs. I believe they are looking at the Northeast corner of the intersection which I assume means just north of the car wash there. I agree that the location seems strange, but I assume they know what they are doing.

My guess could be the old Grant Road Lumber location. It looks like they require a lot of outdoor space, which that would provide, but that's a big parcel.

[hthomas]

My guess could be the old Grant Road Lumber location. It looks like they require a lot of outdoor space, which that would provide, but that's a big parcel.

Yes, it is going to be in that location, basically across from Kingfisher.

[ProfessorMole]

Any idea of the specific building? What a weird intersection to choose. I know the one in Phoenix is pretty well respected.

They'll likely have to tear something down if it's gonna mimic the one in Phoenix. That one has Culinary Dropout and Little Cleo's attached to it, so I would also be curious if they will use the same restaurant pair down here or adjust it.

[azsunsurfer]

As a property owner (owner of several properties) I am always weary of how Government spends money during a normal basis. Tucson and to a lesser extent Pima County has been less than stellar in transparency. I mean driving thru most streets in Tucson is like driving thru Bedrock. I assume that the voters don't want to spend more in property taxes if they feel the Government is not giving them a bang for the buck. I would do the same here in Maricopa.

[ComplotDesigner]

Happy to see this eyesore going down on Broadway!

http://i.imgur.com/j3aiVwb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Xa6mMb4.jpg

[Thirsty]

As a property owner (owner of several properties) I am always weary of how Government spends money during a normal basis. Tucson and to a lesser extent Pima County has been less than stellar in transparency. I mean driving thru most streets in Tucson is like driving thru Bedrock. I assume that the voters don't want to spend more in property taxes if they feel the Government is not giving them a bang for the buck. I would do the same here in Maricopa.

Half the population of Tucson lives on unincorporated county land (the wealthier half of the population for the most part) Their INCOME taxes go to fixing potholes in Phoenix. Tucson is handling the traffic of a million people with half the tax base.

[PHX31]

Half the population of Tucson lives on unincorporated county land (the wealthier half of the population for the most part) Their property taxes go to fixing potholes in Phoenix. Tucson is handling the traffic of a million people with half the tax base.

Could you elaborate how this is the case? Why would Pima County taxes fix potholes in Phoenix/Maricopa County? And how is it 100% of the unincorporated Pima County land taxes leave Pima County?

Speaking of Sam Fox/The Yard: It is a great concept in Phoenix. In case anyone hasn't been to the original one (there is a new one in Tempe), they turned several mid-century buildings into several restaurant concepts and a bar centered around a huge old metal canopy (former ducati dealership I believe) where there is outdoor seating/bar area/yard games/ping pong tables. It's a popular place and something similar would likely be a great addition in Tucson.

[dtnphx]

It makes sense considering ALL the bonds failed even the good ones like highway and road improvement as well as parks and recreation facilities. It was kind of a sad day in Tucson for me but I'm hopeful for the future. I know there are more yes votes than what the results indicates.

This is really surprising to me as a Phoenix resident (who loves Tucson, btw). Phoenix voters (just Phoenix) tend to be much more progressive when voting on transportation, infrastructure and schools. It's mostly liberals and progressives who vote in these types of elections and thankfully most of them pass. Suprisingly, someone said it was conservatives that led the voting down there. It's a shame, really. But, there's always next time.

[Ted Lyons]

This is really surprising to me as a Phoenix resident (who loves Tucson, btw). Phoenix voters (just Phoenix) tend to be much more progressive when voting on transportation, infrastructure and schools. It's mostly liberals and progressives who vote in these types of elections and thankfully most of them pass. Suprisingly, someone said it was conservatives that led the voting down there. It's a shame, really. But, there's always next time.

One of the issues in this election was that they were county bond propositions. Thus, all the people who live out in Ajo and Avra Valley and are fine living in double-wides off dirt roads - but probably vote in every election - got a say in fixing streets and whatnot in the city of Tucson. The 2012 bond proposition, which passed, was limited to the city of Tucson. Based on the Mayor's reaction to the defeat, I think limiting the propositions to the city may be the avenue the city pursues going forward.

[Ted Lyons]

Happy to see this eyesore going down on Broadway!

http://i.imgur.com/j3aiVwb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Xa6mMb4.jpg

Fixing to be a Popeye's, which excites me greatly.

[Ted Lyons]

As a property owner (owner of several properties) I am always weary of how Government spends money during a normal basis. Tucson and to a lesser extent Pima County has been less than stellar in transparency. I mean driving thru most streets in Tucson is like driving thru Bedrock. I assume that the voters don't want to spend more in property taxes if they feel the Government is not giving them a bang for the buck. I would do the same here in Maricopa.

We can either live in Bedrock or hope our money gets spent the way we want. I'd rather take the chance and hope things progress because using past failures to frame all current and future decisions is a losing proposition. On that front, though, the projects funded by the city's 2012 bonds are coming in ahead of schedule and below cost.

[Ted Lyons]

Yes, it is going to be in that location, basically across from Kingfisher.

Cool. Just found the development package. Looks like it's going from this:

http://i.imgur.com/AcLa9Vw.png?1

To this:

http://i.imgur.com/l2THXNr.png?1

[InTheBurbs]

Cool. Just found the development package. Looks like it's going from this:
To this:
http://i.imgur.com/l2THXNr.png?1

Their map is incorrect - it's showing Tucson and Broadway.

[InTheBurbs]

Could you elaborate how this is the case? Why would Pima County taxes fix potholes in Phoenix/Maricopa County? And how is it 100% of the unincorporated Pima County land taxes leave Pima County?


My understanding is a bit rusty, but the formula that the state uses to dole out transportation dollars favors incorporated cities. So Maricopa County, which is something like 80-90% incorporated gets a larger share of gas tax revenue than Pima, which is only 50% (or whatever) incorporated.

If you assume that each county contributes a proportional amount of gas tax to the state, rather than splitting the pot 80/20 based on population, Maricopa may get 90% and Pima 10%. So not all the money goes to Phoenix, but Tucson/Pima loses millions a year.

And with a huge chunk of the legislature from Maricopa, that ain't likely to change soon.

That's why there were moves a while back to "incorporate" the Foothills, Casa Adobes, etc. Not to make them cities per se, but to try to capture some of the lost state funding.

[Thirsty]

Could you elaborate how this is the case? Why would Pima County taxes fix potholes in Phoenix/Maricopa County? And how is it 100% of the unincorporated Pima County land taxes leave Pima County?

Speaking of Sam Fox/The Yard: It is a great concept in Phoenix. In case anyone hasn't been to the original one (there is a new one in Tempe), they turned several mid-century buildings into several restaurant concepts and a bar centered around a huge old metal canopy (former ducati dealership I believe) where there is outdoor seating/bar area/yard games/ping pong tables. It's a popular place and something similar would likely be a great addition in Tucson.

Not 100% of the revenue leaves Pima County. 1.5% comes back to the city of Tucson.

And I was incorrect, the kick back is for income tax not property but the idea is the same. 15% of collected income tax is pooled and distributed back to incorporated cities/towns. Tucson's share for 520,000 people was about $63 million last year.

However nearly a half million people live across an invisible line drawn through the suburbs, but still rely on Tucson's economy and infrastructure. The region is losing out on an additional 48 million locally generated tax dollars.

If the rest of Tucson would incorporate, the cities of metro Tucson would collect >18% of that $609 million income tax pool.

Potholes was just a metaphor, I wasn't implying there is a pothole fund filled solely with the dollars from Pima County. But with about 95% of Maricopa county incorporated, the lion's share of the money Pima county leaves on the table heads right to metro Phoneix.

Other state money distributions are more complicated, taking into account relative city and county populations. The way income tax is distributed puts Pima county at a disadvantage, and the people of unincorporated Pima county for their part are unwilling to play the game. Tucson in the past has played into this, but at the time the game was for relatively small potatoes. It really hurts the city today.

[Thirsty]

My understanding is a bit rusty, but the formula that the state uses to dole out transportation dollars favors incorporated cities. So Maricopa County, which is something like 80-90% incorporated gets a larger share of gas tax revenue than Pima, which is only 50% (or whatever) incorporated.

If you assume that each county contributes a proportional amount of gas tax to the state, rather than splitting the pot 80/20 based on population, Maricopa may get 90% and Pima 10%. So not all the money goes to Phoenix, but Tucson/Pima loses millions a year.

And with a huge chunk of the legislature from Maricopa, that ain't likely to change soon.

That's why there were moves a while back to "incorporate" the Foothills, Casa Adobes, etc. Not to make them cities per se, but to try to capture some of the lost state funding.

That's the gist of it. I was only talking about income tax but sales tax, gas tax and transportation fees are all distributed too and at much higher rates than 15%.

With these taxes though, I think there is a little more balance. Meaning they pay to counties as well, so the disparity between what Pima county pays in and what comes back is less drastic.

[nickw252]

My understanding is a bit rusty, but the formula that the state uses to dole out transportation dollars favors incorporated cities. So Maricopa County, which is something like 80-90% incorporated gets a larger share of gas tax revenue than Pima, which is only 50% (or whatever) incorporated.

Your original post was about Unincorporated Pima County property taxes (not gas tax) going to Maricopa County:

Half the population of Tucson lives on unincorporated county land (the wealthier half of the population for the most part) Their property taxes go to fixing potholes in Phoenix. Tucson is handling the traffic of a million people with half the tax base.

How are Pima County property taxes from unincorporated areas going to Phoenix?

[aznate27]

Yes, it is going to be in that location, basically across from Kingfisher.

....and Dante's Fire (next to Kingfisher). If you guys haven't eaten there I highly recommend it! So it does make sense to locate it there seeing the area already sees traffic for the other two restaurants.