Tucson Development Thread

[cdsuofa]

Tucson is a unique city. Surely our suburbs will someday even more closely resemble Phoenix with more large "Southwestern Style" cookie cutter developments. That is just a fact of outward expansion we all need to be prepared to accept. The interior of Tucson is what makes it unique and will keep it one of those unique cities such as Portland. Rarely is a University so prominent in a city of this size with its near downtown location combined with a healthy combination of historic and modern buildings and large urban environmental reserves (soon Saguaro ntl park west will be surrounded by development). All of these things combined with our unique population will keep central Tucson unique. Our leaders do need to stop getting scared off by small opposition to projects that will benefit the greater good of the city but once that happens I have complete faith in the character of the city I love. P.S. I think the idea of a traditional freeway going from northwest to northeast to south will not happen. The only economically feasible route would be to follow the Rillito and Pantano wash beds but like we have repeatedly seen that will never happen.

[southtucsonboy77]

Here is some good news...the Culver's lot has been graded just off of Kino.

There is some debate on whether the County should buy the land on the other side of the freeway for 19 soccer fields. This is what my family did financially as my son played a Kino League baseball game: 1) we bought snacks and drinks at the Chevron before the game 2) we ate at In N Out Burger after. I forked out over $30.

When my son plays in large baseball/soccer tournaments in Phx, we spend alot of dough on hotels, food, and snacks. It makes economic sense to build these fields and have families from around the state and region spend their money here.

[InTheBurbs]

Ground Broken for New Control Tower at TIA (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/ground-broken-for-tucson-airport-s-new-control-tower/article_9dd83dbf-012a-54d8-bf01-7518c750b9dc.html)

"Home to the second-oldest commercial air traffic control towers in the country, Tucson International Airport will soon have the newest.

Officials broke ground Wednesday at the future site of the tower which, at 252 feet, will be twice as tall as the 55-year-old existing tower...."

[Ted Lyons]

Here is some good news...the Culver's lot has been graded just off of Kino.

There is some debate on whether the County should buy the land on the other side of the freeway for 19 soccer fields. This is what my family did financially as my son played a Kino League baseball game: 1) we bought snacks and drinks at the Chevron before the game 2) we ate at In N Out Burger after. I forked out over $30.

When my son plays in large baseball/soccer tournaments in Phx, we spend alot of dough on hotels, food, and snacks. It makes economic sense to build these fields and have families from around the state and region spend their money here.

Oh, is that what's going in across from the shed place on the east side of the road? For some reason, I was envisioning it on Ajo near In-n-Out.

[aznate27]

Ground Broken for New Control Tower at TIA (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/ground-broken-for-tucson-airport-s-new-control-tower/article_9dd83dbf-012a-54d8-bf01-7518c750b9dc.html)

"Home to the second-oldest commercial air traffic control towers in the country, Tucson International Airport will soon have the newest.

Officials broke ground Wednesday at the future site of the tower which, at 252 feet, will be twice as tall as the 55-year-old existing tower...."

I went to the TIA airport site and this rendering was under the site's article for the new control tower...please tell me I'm wrong! If this is the new tower, just keep the old one, it looks better!

http://www.flytucson.com//includes/media/images/ATCT-Rendering-9-13.jpg

Here's the link (http://www.flytucson.com/articles/index.cfm?action=view&articleID=368&menuID=185).

[Patrick S]

Oh, is that what's going in across from the shed place on the east side of the road? For some reason, I was envisioning it on Ajo near In-n-Out.
I drove by there today. The wooden frame of the Culver's is going up now. I'm still hoping to see some offices go up there at the BioScience (or whatever it's called now) Park soon.

[aznate27]

Looks like Pizzeria Bianco is set to open next month on the 24th.

Pizzeria Bianco Announces Open Date In Instagram Comment (http://tucsonfoodie.com/2014/06/12/pizzeria-bianco-anounces-open-date-instagram-comment/)

[Patrick S]

Some good news:

1) Truly Nolen, which is based in Tucson, has bought buildings in the Williams Centre, and is expanding it's presence in Tucson. They're moving their training center from Phoenix to this new office once it's complete. - http://biztucson.com/truly-magnificent-firm-expanding-its-tucson-presence/

2) Thanks to the even more mild than average winter in Tucson, and the severe winter in the East and Midwest, Tucson resorts had a huge rebound this last winter - http://biztucson.com/resorts-rebound-frigid-snowy-polar-vortex-boosts-bookings/

3) A new company, VXI Global Solutions’ , based in LA, just completed a lease at a business park near TIA. This company will hire 300 workers, and possibly up to 500 in the future - http://biztucson.com/cbre-completes-31100-square-foot-lease-at-campus-at-ti-in-tucson/

Also of note - http://biztucson.com/pima-county-to-acquire-long-sought-after-painted-hills-acreage/

[Locofresh55]

I went to the TIA airport site and this rendering was under the site's article for the new control tower...please tell me I'm wrong! If this is the new tower, just keep the old one, it looks better!

http://www.flytucson.com//includes/media/images/ATCT-Rendering-9-13.jpg

Here's the link (http://www.flytucson.com/articles/index.cfm?action=view&articleID=368&menuID=185).


What are they going to do with the old tower? Leave it in place or tear it down? I think it would be cool to put the tower at the Pima Air and Space Museum. Reconstructing it to over look the compound of the museum and have the tower facilities kept functional or at least for a simulator.


The new tower, while not visually pleasing as its predecessor, is necessary for the airport. TIA shouldn't just leave it as a solid desert beige color though. I think I mentioned it on an old post long ago that they should put the neon lettering like the old tower had but have a different color instead of blue. Something more vibrant that people flying in to the airport will be impressed with.

252 feet is not a bad height BTW.

[Patrick S]

What are they going to do with the old tower? Leave it in place or tear it down? I think it would be cool to put the tower at the Pima Air and Space Museum. Reconstructing it to over look the compound of the museum and have the tower facilities kept functional or at least for a simulator.


The new tower, while not visually pleasing as its predecessor, is necessary for the airport. TIA shouldn't just leave it as a solid desert beige color though. I think I mentioned it on an old post long ago that they should put the neon lettering like the old tower had but have a different color instead of blue. Something more vibrant that people flying in to the airport will be impressed with.

252 feet is not a bad height BTW.
Pretty sure I saw in the article from the AZ Daily Star that the old tower would stay where it is. It's actually the 2nd oldest control tower in use in the United States. I actually like this tower. I see nothing wrong with it. To me it says TIA is a modern airport with modern facilities.

[Patrick S]

After 40 years, new movies are returning downtown (http://azstarnet.com/entertainment/blogs/caliente-tuned-in/after-years-new-movies-are-returning-downtown/article_5b32b78d-ec38-5ebd-803a-a986a2a6090a.html)

This is cool. First run movies will be shown in downtown for the first time in 40 years.

[Patrick S]

Archaeological study now needed at downtown hotel site (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/archaeological-study-now-needed-at-downtown-hotel-site/article_07fb4f49-9965-53d7-847e-9679ffcd14d8.html)

[cdsuofa]

Some good news:

1) Truly Nolen, which is based in Tucson, has bought buildings in the Williams Centre, and is expanding it's presence in Tucson. They're moving their training center from Phoenix to this new office once it's complete. - http://biztucson.com/truly-magnificent-firm-expanding-its-tucson-presence/

2) Thanks to the even more mild than average winter in Tucson, and the severe winter in the East and Midwest, Tucson resorts had a huge rebound this last winter - http://biztucson.com/resorts-rebound-frigid-snowy-polar-vortex-boosts-bookings/

3) A new company, VXI Global Solutions’ , based in LA, just completed a lease at a business park near TIA. This company will hire 300 workers, and possibly up to 500 in the future - http://biztucson.com/cbre-completes-31100-square-foot-lease-at-campus-at-ti-in-tucson/

Also of note - http://biztucson.com/pima-county-to-acquire-long-sought-after-painted-hills-acreage/

Im actually working with VXI in developing their site and their Tucson operation. It seems like a promising company to have in our City. If you have a spare minute it check it out its a rapidly growing worldwide company and when I say rapidly growing I truly mean that. Although they are currently leasing the building it is only to buy them time while they work out the details to actually purchase the building. They are spending a lot of money to update a neglected building and are investing for the future where up to 700 employees and atleast 500 will eventually work. The investment into the renovation of the building as well as the fact that they are actually purchasing it is a good sign that they are here for the long run. Just thought id put a little first hand knowledge about that specific development :)

[Patrick S]

Im actually working with VXI in developing their site and their Tucson operation. It seems like a promising company to have in our City. If you have a spare minute it check it out its a rapidly growing worldwide company and when I say rapidly growing I truly mean that. Although they are currently leasing the building it is only to buy them time while they work out the details to actually purchase the building. They are spending a lot of money to update a neglected building and are investing for the future where up to 700 employees and atleast 500 will eventually work. The investment into the renovation of the building as well as the fact that they are actually purchasing it is a good sign that they are here for the long run. Just thought id put a little first hand knowledge about that specific development :)
Cool. Thanks for the info. Good to know the inside info and that a promising up-and-coming company looks like they want to put a permanent foothold in Tucson.

[Patrick S]

Interesting, since the city backed out of their deal with the county's new courthouse.

Report: City courthouse needs $21M in repairs (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/report-city-courthouse-needs-m-in-repairs/article_de5b05d0-35b3-5a81-8427-05f715a0443e.html)

[Mark H]

Interesting, since the city backed out of their deal with the county's new courthouse.

Report: City courthouse needs $21M in repairs (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/report-city-courthouse-needs-m-in-repairs/article_de5b05d0-35b3-5a81-8427-05f715a0443e.html)

I can't imagine that the City would plunk $21 million into City Court... that facility is an absolute atrocity. Instead, I tend to think this is an attempt to gain traction/leverage to start working their way back into the County Courthouse as a joint tenant. It makes too much sense for City Court to move into the new complex. Unless something's changed the County is only planning on building out half the new building. In fact, rumor has it the recent slow down in the progress of the project (things were moving pretty quickly for awhile there) has been at least partly due to the county getting hung up on which floors to build out and which to leave vacant.

The county could "punish" the city for backing out of the construction side of things with slighty higher-than-market rent. The city would get way more bang for their buck than they would pouring another $20+ million into their current digs... not to mention making the move to an already-existing facility (rather than building something else down the road) will likely save them money in the long run.

[Azstar]

I went to the TIA airport site and this rendering was under the site's article for the new control tower...please tell me I'm wrong! If this is the new tower, just keep the old one, it looks better!

http://www.flytucson.com//includes/media/images/ATCT-Rendering-9-13.jpg

Here's the link (http://www.flytucson.com/articles/index.cfm?action=view&articleID=368&menuID=185).

It looks like a prison guard tower, doesn't it?

[aznate27]

Just went to The Herbert's website, they only have 9 apartments left! Glad to see that housing investment downtown is going strong. This is good news for the coming west side developments.

[ProfessorMole]

New apartment tower pics
http://i62.tinypic.com/6z7lmw.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/2mmbtlg.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/vdhmw9.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/a5ku89.jpg

[Ted Lyons]

Next looks pretty good but there's a defect where the crossbeam meets the vertical beam (you can see where the cladding flares out) on the pointless arch that will probably never be fixed.

http://i.imgur.com/QI4uy5N.png

[andrewsaturn]

Thanks for the pics!

[dtnphx]

Hey guys:

Was just in your fair city this weekend from Phoenix. I've been to Tucson dozens of times over the years. Spent some time with a friend on Saturday evening during a Local Arizona event on 4th Ave. Loved the vibe, even though it was hot as hell (as a Phoenician, I know hot). After that, we went to Congress St. via the underpass. Love the creative tiles of Tucsonians adorning the walls! Had a nice dinner at Hub on Congress. The restaurant food was good and had a very big city vibe. Lots of activity on the street and love seeing the Modern Streetcar testing on the street-very urban. I love how your downtown is scaled to people rather than the giant, monolithic buildings that dominate Phoenix's downtown. The scale of everything was right on point. Very impressed.

[andrewsaturn]

Hey guys:

Was just in your fair city this weekend from Phoenix. I've been to Tucson dozens of times over the years. Spent some time with a friend on Saturday evening during a Local Arizona event on 4th Ave. Loved the vibe, even though it was hot as hell (as a Phoenician, I know hot). After that, we went to Congress St. via the underpass. Love the creative tiles of Tucsonians adorning the walls! Had a nice dinner at Hub on Congress. The restaurant food was good and had a very big city vibe. Lots of activity on the street and love seeing the Modern Streetcar testing on the street-very urban. I love how your downtown is scaled to people rather than the giant, monolithic buildings that dominate Phoenix's downtown. The scale of everything was right on point. Very impressed.

Hey! I'm glad you enjoyed your evening :) Congress street has definitely transformed a whole lot since just from a couple of years ago ( thanks in part to the Scottsdale original Hifi bar/restaurant and Bianco Pizzeria). The momentum can only continue and hopefully beyond just that one street. Phoenix has a nice amount of sky scrapers something Tucson lacks and I'm not optimistic that we could build a new towering tower in my lifetime. Phoenix has the economy to keep building and at a faster rate than Tucson so maybe downtown Phoenix can one day be the place to be at, a bustling urban core .

[DSGNR7]

If I had to choose between fixing the small problem with the cladding on Next or completely demolishing The Hub...I'd choose demolition. Gosh, what a horrible looking building. The Hub is one of those unfortunate cases where the rendering of the building looks vastly better than the final product. Don't get me wrong, I love the progress and it definitely helps with the massing of that area; it just wasn't executed very well.

Next looks pretty good but there's a defect where the crossbeam meets the vertical beam (you can see where the cladding flares out) on the pointless arch that will probably never be fixed.

http://i.imgur.com/QI4uy5N.png

[ProfessorMole]

New article on Banner's potential takeover of the UA health network. Based on the proposed agreement, it's looking like a smart move to clear some big debt and doesn't disrupt the Cancer Center in Phoenix, at least for now.
Banner Health Poised to take over UA network (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/education/college/banner-health-poised-to-take-over-ua-network/article_f0b24d72-bb83-5d36-baa8-6104535d20d0.html)

[Ted Lyons]

Just read this: http://3storymagazine.com/mercado-tucson/. Loads of new info. I hope even a quarter of what's discussed gets completed.

[Patrick S]

To go along with this
Just read this: http://3storymagazine.com/mercado-tucson/. Loads of new info. I hope even a quarter of what's discussed gets completed.

Gadsden Co. pays city $2.3M for streetcar construction (http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/government/gadsden-co-pays-city-m-for-streetcar-construction/article_0c7a141e-a1cd-5827-a3a1-17e6e06d5527.html)

[Ted Lyons]

A development package for West End Station, including a preliminary site plan for "The West Abbey" which I believe is the same as the "Downtown Abbey" mentioned in the article, was submitted last month.

http://i.imgur.com/e1G4zzI.png

http://i.imgur.com/xikqH7a.png

From the Mercado:
http://i.imgur.com/lrvwjzo.png

From Congress:
http://i.imgur.com/aMneCBv.png

[cdsuofa]

Kinda get the feeling Gadsden is going to fill those 14 acres with absolutely nothing that contributes to the feel of downtown and basically alienate the west end from the east of I-10 portion. There is so much they could to turn that into the cultural hub of downtown or even the commercial, heck the whatever hub but they are just going to continue to build mid rise, government subsidized, low income housing. Great!

[cdsuofa]

Heyy looks like the county is going to buy the land for the soccer fields http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?p=1648 . Feel like soccer could work in Tucson.

[Ritarancher]

Kinda get the feeling Gadsden is going to fill those 14 acres with absolutely nothing that contributes to the feel of downtown and basically alienate the west end from the east of I-10 portion. There is so much they could to turn that into the cultural hub of downtown or even the commercial, heck the whatever hub but they are just going to continue to build mid rise, government subsidized, low income housing. Great!

Yes and no. I agree to some extent. If there is no street level retail then downtown vibes will be killed. The feel of a downtown also depends on the architecture of the buildings. The old Spanish style is very nice looking but can't make an efficient downtown. Business owners don't want to invest in the past. People need modern. Santa Fe has nice older architecture but it's downtown economy is based solely on tourism. That can't be Tucson. A district with fifteen or so modern looking buildings with street level retail would create a market that attracts businesses and can provide good paying jobs. That would then lead to more development downtown, assuming most or many employees want to live along the streetcar route. But I think we're getting more than just Hud housing, West end station is low income but I remember reading about another development that was middle class,I believe that the backyard is too. I think the article also mentioned a hotel as well and I'd assume all those buildings will need a large parking garage. So things are kinda looking brighter on that side of the 10 :)
Btw. Diversity in that area is great whether it's based on income, age or race.

[Ritarancher]

Heyy looks like the county is going to buy the land for the soccer fields http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?p=1648 . Feel like soccer could work in Tucson.

This is a really smart investment. Soccer is by far the fastest growing sport in the US. Thousands of people are filling football stadiums nationwide to watch the world cup on tv. Tucson is capturing the opportunities soccer has. I can't think of any other spot in the continent that has twenty some soccer fields in one square mile.

[Ted Lyons]

Kinda get the feeling Gadsden is going to fill those 14 acres with absolutely nothing that contributes to the feel of downtown and basically alienate the west end from the east of I-10 portion. There is so much they could to turn that into the cultural hub of downtown or even the commercial, heck the whatever hub but they are just going to continue to build mid rise, government subsidized, low income housing. Great!

That building isn't "low income," which doesn't equate to "market rate," and every building they have proposed thus far is mixed use. I don't see how that's counter to the goals of the neighborhood. If your complaint relates to Sentinel Plaza, that was the result of a land swap for what is now The Herbert and had nothing to do with Gadsden.

[cdsuofa]

This is a really smart investment. Soccer is by far the fastest growing sport in the US. Thousands of people are filling football stadiums nationwide to watch the world cup on tv. Tucson is capturing the opportunities soccer has. I can't think of any other spot in the continent that has twenty some soccer fields in one square mile.

I agree I've never seen soccer so popular in the US and the World Cup has definitely never been this popular here. MLS teams are getting new, relatively large stadiums as well. Correct me if im wrong but I believe they do their own version of spring training early in the year where they practice and scrimmage. If Tucson can capitalize on that and maybe lure some MLS teams to have their training camps here in the winter that would be huge.

[Ted Lyons]

http://fctucson.com/team/full-mls-preseason-and-2014-fc-tucson-desert-diamond-cup-schedule/

[Patrick S]

I agree I've never seen soccer so popular in the US and the World Cup has definitely never been this popular here. MLS teams are getting new, relatively large stadiums as well. Correct me if im wrong but I believe they do their own version of spring training early in the year where they practice and scrimmage. If Tucson can capitalize on that and maybe lure some MLS teams to have their training camps here in the winter that would be huge.
Tucson's already done this.

[Ted Lyons]

New renderings for HUB phase II. This looks a million times better than the first phase.

http://pdsd.tucsonaz.gov/files/pdsd/boards-committees-commissions/July_8_2014_DRC_west_and_east_elevation_presentation.pdf

[Ted Lyons]

Here's a bunch of information on the plan amendment proposed for the mixed use development at Speedway and Campbell. Supposedly, some renderings were shown at the meeting on May 8th, but I can't find anything beyond the preliminary images under "Proposed Policy Exhibits."

http://pdsd.tucsonaz.gov/pdsd/current-plan-amendments

[Anqrew]

awesome stuff! looks like I was on to something when I thought the 20-story tower would be at Speedway and Campbell! In the Neighborhood Meeting Summary it says there are plans for a 250 ft tower! as well as a grocery, office space, high end residential units, and a 1,000 space parking garage (2 levels below ground and 5 above)

earliest plan amendment would be Nov 2014, rezoning planning at least 8 months, rezoning process another 6 months or more. I'm going to guess this will start construction in summer 2016.

[southtucsonboy77]

awesome stuff! looks like I was on to something when I thought the 20-story tower would be at Speedway and Campbell! In the Neighborhood Meeting Summary it says there are plans for a 250 ft tower! as well as a grocery, office space, high end residential units, and a 1,000 space parking garage (2 levels below ground and 5 above)

earliest plan amendment would be Nov 2014, rezoning planning at least 8 months, rezoning process another 6 months or more. I'm going to guess this will start construction in summer 2016.

AMEN to that! It appears 12 stories would front Speedway, 10 would front Campbell (for the Blenman Neighborhood of course) and the 20 would be towards the UMC campus. It's not downtown, but its definitely a co-anchor for the east-end of the Streetcar route.

[aznate27]

Rio Nuevo gets two Greyhound site redevelopment bids (http://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/rio-nuevo-gets-two-greyhound-site-redevelopment-bids/article_78b84ca3-33bf-573d-8885-cc21b85829d0.html)

Rio Nuevo has two, $100 million proposals to develop its land near the Tucson Convention Center in the table.

The board voted 4 to 1 Tuesday to publicly interview the two bidders in a final evaluation before it selects a winner to purchase and develop the approximately 8.5-acres of Rio Nuevo land, now occupied by the Greyhound Bus Depot.

In May, the district sought bids on the property located behind the TCC along Granada Avenue, east of Interstate 10 and north of Cushing Street.

Both bids promise to transform the site of the current Greyhound station into a vibrant western-gateway to downtown. To accomplish that, both include plans for a hotel, parking garage and some mix of apartments, office space, and restaurants and shops.

[Thirsty]

My quick Google search only found drawings from 2007 for the West of TCC site.

I know some of you frequently dig deep for this sort of stuff, so if anyone runs across revised plans please post them here for the rest of us. Thanks.

[Ted Lyons]

My quick Google search only found drawings from 2007 for the West of TCC site.

I know some of you frequently dig deep for this sort of stuff, so if anyone runs across revised plans please post them here for the rest of us. Thanks.

I haven't seen anything updated but we should see some documentation on the Rio Nuevo site soon.

[southtucsonboy77]

I haven't seen anything updated but we should see some documentation on the Rio Nuevo site soon.

And here they are:

Rio Nuevo (http://rionuevo.org/rfqs/)

[Ted Lyons]

Nice!

[andrewsaturn]

Thanks! Now we know the gateway to downtown through congress will be dramatically improved in the near future.

[southtucsonboy77]

Overall, I like Nor-Gen site plan and renderings. The one thing that gives me heartache is that the residential building looks waaaay too much like a cross of the New Armory Building across the freeway and the Cadence student housing building (the one that sits on the garage).

If I could morph the two proposals, I would keep the Nor-Gen site plan, use the design/architecture of the hotel and use it for the housing structure, and take the Peach proposal's Drury Hotel concept/rendering in place of the Nor-Gen hotel.

Lastly, the deadline for the Rondstadt proposals is the end of July (or was it August?)...so that's another development to look forward to.

[Ted Lyons]

My biggest concern with the Nor-Gen plan is the lack of a committed hotel operator. I might be wrong but, if companies were "sincerely interested," I'd think one would have signed on by now, like Drury did.

[InTheBurbs]

Thanks! Now we know the gateway to downtown through congress will be dramatically improved in the near future.

Of course, Tucson-wise, the "near-future" is a relative term!

My biggest concern with the Nor-Gen plan is the lack of a committed hotel operator. I might be wrong but, if companies were "sincerely interested," I'd think one would have signed on by now, like Drury did.

I wouldn't sweat it. Peach has had Drury lined up for a while. They were the operator on their original proposal. But IIRC Nor-gen was working with Marriott back on the TCC hotel proposal, or even before. More than likely they want to wait to see if they get the go-ahead before committing. I'm sure the TCC hotel fiasco left a bad taste with many hotel chains.

Overall, I like Nor-Gen site plan and renderings. The one thing that gives me heartache is that the residential building looks waaaay too much like a cross of the New Armory Building across the freeway and the Cadence student housing building (the one that sits on the garage).

Agreed. A 4 story building sitting on a 4 story parking garage just doesn't cut it visually. I like the overall Nor-gen proposal, but Peach has more hotel rooms, more apartments and more height. Hopefully whichever is chosen puts some additional thought into the design. That is going to be the face of downtown to anyone passing through on I-10.

Interesting that both proposals have the Nor-gen Exhibit Center. Is that definitely a go?

[Ted Lyons]

Of course, Tucson-wise, the "near-future" is a relative term!



I wouldn't sweat it. Peach has had Drury lined up for a while. They were the operator on their original proposal. But IIRC Nor-gen was working with Marriott back on the TCC hotel proposal, or even before. More than likely they want to wait to see if they get the go-ahead before committing. I'm sure the TCC hotel fiasco left a bad taste with many hotel chains.



Agreed. A 4 story building sitting on a 4 story parking garage just doesn't cut it visually. I like the overall Nor-gen proposal, but Peach has more hotel rooms, more apartments and more height. Hopefully whichever is chosen puts some additional thought into the design. That is going to be the face of downtown to anyone passing through on I-10.

Interesting that both proposals have the Nor-gen Exhibit Center. Is that definitely a go?

The exhibition center is technically separate from this project and is guaranteed as a result of one of the settlements reach by Rio Nuevo, I believe. Also, per the ADS article, Rio Nuevo has to build a parking garage for the exhibition center, which seems to have been part of the RFP.

[Ritarancher]

Wow! Development is really kicking into full gear in Tucson. We've got the Mercado district, arena area, Main Gate and Campbell areas all preparing for development. Downtown Tucson is very quickly becoming an urban mecca. Downtown in three years will be completely unrecognizable, compared to what it was just three years ago. The streetcar has already pulled it's weight in the terms of development.

I see a good future for downtown. If all the current projects go well (having clean, modern architecture, ground level retail) I suspect that national businesses will want to relocate here, making jobs and bringing residents downtown. I don't see much of a manhattanization going on in the near future; we're not going to get the super tall towers that we all want, but we will continue to develop like European cities but with an American twist (Barcelona + A basketball arena). We will be one of the most unique, diverse cities on a global scale. It won't be until around 2020 when Tucson starts building real skyscrapers, after we develop all of our excessive extra land downtown.

I might just be an optimist, but things seem to be pretty good downtown and I don't see that trend ending any time soon.

I wanted to share this article that was on Yahoo with you. It compares Tucson and Phoenix. It seemed very accurate and recent. However, at the bottom of the article there's a poll that asks readers what city they think won the city smackdown and Tucson pulled in an impressive 88% of all voters and Phoenix a mere 12%.

The Article;
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/city-smackdown-phoenix-vs-tucson-90467514092.html

[Patrick S]

$197 million later, streetcar starts running Friday (http://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/million-later-streetcar-starts-running-friday/article_d7d1ffe4-183e-5035-892f-5849e5db3d27.html)
- One highlight from the article:
"Streetcar supporters aren’t content to revel in their success. Plans are already afoot to find ways to expand the line.

Farley said the expansion would focus first on connecting Tucson Mall and the airport. Since it appears the U.S. Congress won’t dole out any transit funds anytime soon, Farley said he is turning to private and local funding sources.

Farley said he’s already in talks with a couple of big investors, but wouldn’t reveal any specifics. Another funding source being pursued is a local improvement district. That’s where property owners along the proposed route would agree to higher taxes if those dollars go towards the streetcar.

”I don’t have any faith the federal government will fund anything again,” Farley said. “But I’d rather have outside money anyway because it’s more nimble and we want to build on our successes now.”

Farley said private money would likely keep costs lower by 20-30 percent because federal red tape wouldn’t be around to balloon costs and delay progress."

Streetcar culminates a decades-long effort (http://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/streetcar-culminates-a-decades-long-effort/article_f87bd33a-a6b9-5f26-97d4-ede7b89263b6.html)

- Interesting article, which chronicles the history of rail transit in Tucson.

[nickw252]

$197 million later, streetcar starts running Friday (http://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/million-later-streetcar-starts-running-friday/article_d7d1ffe4-183e-5035-892f-5849e5db3d27.html)
Farley said the expansion would focus first on connecting Tucson Mall and the airport.

Connecting to the airport should be priority number 1 if Tucson wants a comprehensive multi-modal transit system. I wonder if the Airport could help fund an extension.

While expanding on the south side they should also put a park and ride down there for people commuting into downtown. It may not save much time but would at least save on parking costs.

[Patrick S]

Connecting to the airport should be priority number 1 if Tucson wants a comprehensive multi-modal transit system. I wonder if the Airport could help fund an extension.

While expanding on the south side they should also put a park and ride down there for people commuting into downtown. It may not save much time but would at least save on parking costs.
Totally agree that a route to the airport is priority number one, but I would rather it be true light-rail with its own right-of-way than the streetcar.

[Thirsty]

Well good news and bad news.

No plans on extending the trolley down to the airport. They plan to run it down 6th Ave to the Laos transit center.

Hopefully that leaves the option to run light rail down Campbell to TIA.

[Patrick S]

Well good news and bad news.

No plans on extending the trolley down to the airport. They plan to run it down 6th Ave to the Laos transit center.

Hopefully that leaves the option to run light rail down Campbell to TIA.
Specifics?

The article makes it sound like there are plans for a route to the airport.

[Thirsty]

Specifics?

The article makes it sound like there are plans for a route to the airport.

Laos Transit was always part of the plan, and I remember last time the trolley vs. light rail discussion came up here being disappointing that nothing had changed.

Although, I wouldn't mind seeing it extend down 6th into South Tucson.

But maybe things have changed.

[Ted Lyons]

Finally found the preliminary renderings for the Speedway & Campbell project. The allusions to Whole Foods are pretty obvious.

http://i.imgur.com/mirzAM8.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/64N0fWu.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/UiATgFS.png?1

[andrewsaturn]

Totally agree that a route to the airport is priority number one, but I would rather it be true light-rail with its own right-of-way than the streetcar.

I agree, light rail transit from airport to downtown is really important. It definitely should be at the top of the list. I would say the Uofa campus is the main draw of people visiting tucson and downtown/4th ave is the connector with future hotel rooms and lots of restaurants for the tourists. Also, along with Sonoran desert museum, it's all balanced more on the west side of town and it just makes sense for that connection.

[Patrick S]

Finally found the preliminary renderings for the Speedway & Campbell project. The allusions to Whole Foods are pretty obvious.

http://i.imgur.com/mirzAM8.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/64N0fWu.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/UiATgFS.png?1
I kinda like it. Looks pretty modern. Definitely will add density. Any idea when they break ground?

[Patrick S]

I agree, light rail transit from airport to downtown is really important. It definitely should be at the top of the list. I would say the Uofa campus is the main draw of people visiting tucson and downtown/4th ave is the connector with future hotel rooms and lots of restaurants for the tourists. Also, along with Sonoran desert museum, it's all balanced more on the west side of town and it just makes sense for that connection.
I would have the TIA route as my top priority for sure. Probably run it down Stone/6th Ave., past the VA Hospital, and have it stop at Laos Transit Center, then down Nogales Hwy. to TIA. Maybe even down Valenica to Pima Air and Space Museum and maybe even on to the U of A Tech Park out on Rita Rd.

Next route would be down Aviation Hwy./Golf Links to DMAFB, up Wilmot to the Park Place Mall, then down Broadway back to downtown. One big loop. Easy access to downtown and 4th Ave. and to Park Place and the restaurants and bars in that area for those on the Air Force Base. Also stops at El Con/Reid Park.

Then next main one would be up Oracle or Stone to Tucson Mall, and would make a stop at the Tohono Tadai Transit Center.

[southtucsonboy77]

If I recall, the TIA Long-Range Plan indicated there would be a new "main entrance" and roadway access...can't remember if it was Country Club and/or off of Nogales Highway/I-19.

With that in mind, installing the extension's rails, stops, and even ROW (maybe its own designated lane in certain areas, streetcar and lightrail combo) would be coordinated.

[southtucsonboy77]

Finally found the preliminary renderings for the Speedway & Campbell project. The allusions to Whole Foods are pretty obvious.

http://i.imgur.com/mirzAM8.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/64N0fWu.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/UiATgFS.png?1

These renderings are awesome...can't wait for this development and the "arena site" development.

The west-end needs to pick-up...

[ppdd]

These renderings are awesome...can't wait for this development and the "arena site" development.

The west-end needs to pick-up...

I hope these rendering are very preliminary. There's a very 1960s vibe to these - I think they'd look quite dated, sort of like Disney's Tomorrowland. Are those outside walkways all the way around all levels?

[kaneui]

More renders and details of the latest proposal from the Bourn Companies for the Thrifty Block redevelopment:

http://www.bourncompanies.com/projects/downtown-tucson-project/

[cdsuofa]

If I recall, the TIA Long-Range Plan indicated there would be a new "main entrance" and roadway access...can't remember if it was Country Club and/or off of Nogales Highway/I-19.

With that in mind, installing the extension's rails, stops, and even ROW (maybe its own designated lane in certain areas, streetcar and lightrail combo) would be coordinated.

I think at this point they have kinda settled on Tucson Blvd being the main entrance for the foreseeable future. They are investing in the design (Signage, Plants, hardscapes, ground coverings, etc) of the median as well as the shoulders. The Kino Pkwy/Benson Hwy intersection could use some improvements so that it is clear to people which turn to take coming from the airport and trying to get to the UofA area or the opposite. One thing I have noticed Tucson lacks a lot of are overhead directional signs letting people know what lane to be in to get where. These are rather cheap ways to help guide people around town whether they be tourists in the TIA area or just lost residents. These don't have to be restricted to expressways or freeways either they are great even on normal surface streets/ Some of those overhead digital traffic update signs would be cool too. The only way I see Tucson Blvd not being the main entrance for the next 20 years is a significant amount of infrastructure including the Phoenix/Tucson rail, a Tucson light rail stop and even then I still think it would be long shot to change to main entrance.

[cdsuofa]

I would have the TIA route as my top priority for sure. Probably run it down Stone/6th Ave., past the VA Hospital, and have it stop at Laos Transit Center, then down Nogales Hwy. to TIA. Maybe even down Valenica to Pima Air and Space Museum and maybe even on to the U of A Tech Park out on Rita Rd.

Next route would be down Aviation Hwy./Golf Links to DMAFB, up Wilmot to the Park Place Mall, then down Broadway back to downtown. One big loop. Easy access to downtown and 4th Ave. and to Park Place and the restaurants and bars in that area for those on the Air Force Base. Also stops at El Con/Reid Park.

Then next main one would be up Oracle or Stone to Tucson Mall, and would make a stop at the Tohono Tadai Transit Center.

I like your route ideas. I def think the two main priorities for a light rail system's first lines in Tucson would be connect The U of A/Downtown to TIA/Raytheon and get a route from Downtown/UA area down Broadway to the Park Place Mall (obviously eventually things would go further east, just talking a couple routes to start with).

[ComplotDesigner]

Official Streetcar Launch on Congress St.

Who got the chance to be there?

From TucsonScene Scene Channel.
56dFDH-UG88

[Schaeffa]

Official Streetcar Launch on Congress St.

Who got the chance to be there?


I could see a bit from my office's window and hear the band playing. We now have "beach"front property (http://oi59.tinypic.com/23j0mlx.jpg). Planning on taking the streetcar somewhere for lunch today. =)

EDIT: Plans shot. I waited for two cars and they were both so packed, they weren't letting anyone else on. I was with a group and only two–three people were getting off at the Plaza Centro stop where we were waiting. I was hoping to snag some pictures of inside the car for you all, but I wasn't able to do so. =/
One thing I did notice, though, was that the route map (http://www.sunlinkstreetcar.com/pdf/Sun-Link-streetcar-7-7-2014.pdf) that's at the stations (and online) has the Downtown Links extension of AZ 210 already on it. Guess it's closer than I thought to coming to fruition—it'll be nice having less cars going down Congress just to get to the freeway.

[andrewsaturn]

Official Streetcar Launch on Congress St.

Who got the chance to be there?

From TucsonScene Scene Channel.
56dFDH-UG88

I wish I was there for the kick off party but I'm planning on riding the whole route later this evening. I like how the uofa pep band is there :haha: I guess that represents how Tucson is still ultimately a college town. Also, it was exciting to see so many people of different age groups supporting the start of the streetcar. I hope they all know that the best is yet to come and that our downtown is going in the right direction. This project was definitely the best decision the people of this town has made because it gives Tucson an opportunity to grow at a faster pace economically. It just makes our urban core so much more aesthetically attractive with all the additional projects filling in the many empty areas.

[ComplotDesigner]

Had these pictures on my phone...

El Con Mall - Cheddar’s Casual Café. 070814

http://i.imgur.com/eQAU4YF.jpg

Tucson Marketplace at the Bridges - pads on Kino Parkway. 072414

http://i.imgur.com/Htl328l.jpg

[dtnphx]

Really nice to see the Modern Streetcar opening. Ceremonies like that are awesome and reflect true civic pride. I love that there was a band, too.

[Qwijib0]

Official Streetcar Launch on Congress St.

Who got the chance to be there?

From TucsonScene Scene Channel.
56dFDH-UG88

I took the morning and followed the VIP train from the med center for 4 of the 5 ribbon cuttings cause why not. Steve's call and response (together!) was a little too enthusiastic for the crowd.

Only rode one stop on friday, but took it downtown for lunch today. One major flaw I saw was people struggling with the readers and day passes-- and this got me thinking, why do most people need to tap in? If you have a day pass, it's unlimited rides so if the fare cop comes around either the pass is valid or it isn't. Same deal with monthly/weekly/yearly sunGO-- either it's within the timeframe or it isn't. The only people who should have to tap is people paying sunGO cash equivalent. I think the speed of tapping might cause congestion during peak times.

[Ted Lyons]

I took the morning and followed the VIP train from the med center for 4 of the 5 ribbon cuttings cause why not. Steve's call and response (together!) was a little too enthusiastic for the crowd.

Only rode one stop on friday, but took it downtown for lunch today. One major flaw I saw was people struggling with the readers and day passes-- and this got me thinking, why do most people need to tap in? If you have a day pass, it's unlimited rides so if the fare cop comes around either the pass is valid or it isn't. Same deal with monthly/weekly/yearly sunGO-- either it's within the timeframe or it isn't. The only people who should have to tap is people paying sunGO cash equivalent. I think the speed of tapping might cause congestion during peak times.

Good point about the reader. I took the streetcar one stop and back today for lunch from my office and I had to walk to the other end of the car because the people in front of me with day passes couldn't get it to read. By the time they figured it out, we would have passed my stop. Overall, it was a good experience, though.

[Thirsty]

If it is anything like the tap pass in Phoenix, people will get used to it quickly.

Tapping in I imagine is all about data. Ridership by time and place, peak hours, trips per day/week/year.

Important for managing the service, and both justifying and planning any expansion of public transit in So. AZ.

[N830MH]

Official Streetcar Launch on Congress St.

Who got the chance to be there?

From TucsonScene Scene Channel.
56dFDH-UG88

Wow! That was so incredible music. I am really like it lots. I haven't ride on light rail for a long time. I don't have much time.

[InTheBurbs]

Nice picture from US DOT article on the Streetcar....


http://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/pictures/Sun-Link-in-downtown-Tucson.jpg

Tucson's Sun Link Streetcar one more reason to Grow America (http://www.transportation.gov/fastlane/tucsons-sun-link-one-more-reason-grow-america)

[Patrick S]

Interesting article. Though it says (a couple times) this was more for show, there were suggestions that Tucson is viewed as a good, if not great, candidate for the plant, and this gesture may actually have some real value.

Tucson to Tesla Motors: Your building permit is ready (http://tucson.com/business/local/tucson-to-tesla-motors-your-building-permit-is-ready/article_c705ad7a-10b2-579e-9b4c-35e03fd54676.html)

[InTheBurbs]

According to a number of sources, including Inside Tucson Business (http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/tesla-breaks-ground-for-battery-factory-in-nevada/article_46b42e26-190c-11e4-8083-001a4bcf887a.html) and Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2014/07/31/reno-is-teslas-first-choice-as-a-gigafactory-site/http://) Tesla broke ground last month in Reno on what may or may not be the gigafactory. But they continue to say that they may do the same thing in one or two (now) other states and that a final decision is "still months away" (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/tesla-decision-battery-factory-months-24796575), according to ABC.

[Ritarancher]

I found a pdf about the new project on Speedway and Campbell. It looks like it's a major projects, probably the single largest development downtown aside from the streetcar. I'm excited, the design is even starting to grow on me.
http://pdsd.tucsonaz.gov/files/pdsd/boards-committees-commissions/RJA_SpeedCamp_2014.07.14_Planning_Commission_short_email.pdf

[Patrick S]

I found a pdf about the new project on Speedway and Campbell. It looks like it's a major projects, probably the single largest development downtown aside from the streetcar. I'm excited, the design is even starting to grow on me.
http://pdsd.tucsonaz.gov/files/pdsd/boards-committees-commissions/RJA_SpeedCamp_2014.07.14_Planning_Commission_short_email.pdf
Good find. I like the project. Good infill, like the height. I like how the possible future streetcar alignments are included in the plan. Not to nitpick, but that isn't downtown.

[Patrick S]

Next city council meeting is tomorrow (8/5) and on the agenda is the annexation of the Century Park Marketplace at Kolb and Valencia. This would officially become part of Tucson 30 days after the annexation date. The area is also up for zoning at the meeting, once the area becomes annexed (assuming it does). They are #12 & 13 on the agenda. (http://www.tucsonaz.gov/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=1260&doctype=AGENDA)

[Thirsty]

Why put solar panels on the low building just North of the tower? I imagine they'll be in the summer sun, but they won't get any exposure half the year.

[aznate27]

A couple upcoming projects are mentioned in the article...

Tucson pushing to solve affordable-housing crisis (http://tucson.com/news/local/tucson-pushing-to-solve-affordable-housing-crisis/article_78bdb53e-4fb1-533f-a248-26aaac880134.html)

[southtucsonboy77]

Next week the Rio Nuevo Board meeting will hear the presentations and interview the 2 proposers. Hopefully they will immediately do their scoring and final rankings and not hold up the process any longer.

Agenda (http://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Agenda-for-Special-Meeting-8-12-14.pdf)

The elephant in the room is: If Peach Properties does NOT win, then most likely they will continue their lawsuit. As I stated before, and I know it's more difficult to do it this way, but since there are only 2 proposals ranked extremely close...why not have the best of both? Exhibition hall, plaza, housing - NorGen; hotel, offices, housing - Peach Properties.

[Ted Lyons]

Tim Steller's views on the Rio Nuevo decision pretty closely reflect my personal concerns.

http://tucson.com/news/local/column/steller-decision-time-on-developing-key-streetcar-site/article_05a2d47e-65e2-5d4f-899b-763826e84ee8.html

[andrewsaturn]

Tim Steller's views on the Rio Nuevo decision pretty closely reflect my personal concerns.

http://tucson.com/news/local/column/steller-decision-time-on-developing-key-streetcar-site/article_05a2d47e-65e2-5d4f-899b-763826e84ee8.html

I wish there was something built before the streetcar got completed as well. I hope the process doesn't take as long and that everybody's on board just to get the plans moving.

[southtucsonboy77]

Wow, just left the Rio Nuevo Board meeting and my take is this: Peach blew Nor-Gen out of the water in comparing presentations. They were prepared, brought new materials, a few additional handouts. My vote would go towards Peach.

A couple of glaring weaknesses for Nor-Gen were: 1) Their experience in development, especially in Tucson (as the Star and a few of you mentioned). They had a chance to respond to that criticism and they didn't do a good job. 2) The UofA Visual Center...no funding was secured...therefore, the northern section of this site could possibly sit vacant for more years to come.

Towards the end of the meeting there were 2 uncomfortable moments initiated by a board member. I hope it does't derail the entire RFP and they would have to start over...maybe it will come out in the news.

[andrewsaturn]

Wow, just left the Rio Nuevo Board meeting and my take is this: Peach blew Nor-Gen out of the water in comparing presentations. They were prepared, brought new materials, a few additional handouts. My vote would go towards Peach.

A couple of glaring weaknesses for Nor-Gen were: 1) Their experience in development, especially in Tucson (as the Star and a few of you mentioned). They had a chance to respond to that criticism and they didn't do a good job. 2) The UofA Visual Center...no funding was secured...therefore, the northern section of this site could possibly sit vacant for more years to come.

Towards the end of the meeting there were 2 uncomfortable moments initiated by a board member. I hope it does't derail the entire RFP and they would have to start over...maybe it will come out in the news.

Omg and I liked Nor-gens proposal better than peaches. Well, if peach wins then I guess they will actually get the job done. I hope in their final proposal they take some of the design ideas from Nor-gen I.e. The visual arts center or the museum concept.

[Ted Lyons]

Wow, just left the Rio Nuevo Board meeting and my take is this: Peach blew Nor-Gen out of the water in comparing presentations. They were prepared, brought new materials, a few additional handouts. My vote would go towards Peach.

A couple of glaring weaknesses for Nor-Gen were: 1) Their experience in development, especially in Tucson (as the Star and a few of you mentioned). They had a chance to respond to that criticism and they didn't do a good job. 2) The UofA Visual Center...no funding was secured...therefore, the northern section of this site could possibly sit vacant for more years to come.

Towards the end of the meeting there were 2 uncomfortable moments initiated by a board member. I hope it does't derail the entire RFP and they would have to start over...maybe it will come out in the news.

Whatever happened will supposedly be part of the Daily Star story, although it hasn't been published yet. Mind summarizing for us?

Tying the visual arts center to UA/ABOR funding is a huge mistake. A developer with a track record of sitting on property would be wont to make that mistake, but you'd hope they'd know not to. This just further cements my support for the Peach proposal.

[cdsuofa]

From what I understand the Board needs more time because they cant make a decision. Kind of typical if that is the case

[Ted Lyons]

http://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/rio-nuevo-delays-action-on-proposed-downtown-project/article_25dd1a02-b38a-5e08-a37b-8eddc33327cf.html

Moore sounds like an absolute idiot, not because of his opinion, but because of his disregard for the process.

Aside from that, his opinion is flawed. Even if constructed, which is unlikely given the lack of a funding mechanism, Nor-Gen's "visual arts center" is never going to become Tucson's Rockefeller Center. This is the type of stuff the dreamer's on here buy into.

Vision is fine, but we can't let it get in the way of tangible progress.

[southtucsonboy77]

http://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/rio-nuevo-delays-action-on-proposed-downtown-project/article_25dd1a02-b38a-5e08-a37b-8eddc33327cf.html

Moore sounds like an absolute idiot, not because of his opinion, but because of his disregard for the process.

Aside from that, his opinion is flawed. Even if constructed, which is unlikely given the lack of a funding mechanism, Nor-Gen's "visual arts center" is never going to become Tucson's Rockefeller Center. This is the type of stuff the dreamer's on here buy into.

Vision is fine, but we can't let it get in the way of tangible progress.

He was told numerous times that if this was just a vote, then yes, make your speech and vote your way. HOWEVER, this RFP and procurement process is based on scoring and evaluations...so if he's already telling everyone who he wants...then he's obviously not scoring and evaluating by the given criteria. It took the Rio Nuevo attorney and members of the board several times to explain that to him...and Moore went nuts.

The other uncomfortable moment was when Moore asked Peach what would they do if they did not win...would they continue their lawsuit, or will they be good sports. Obviously Peach Properties was put on the spot and its not an appropriate question to be asked or an appropriate answer to be given...yet Moore kept on and on. Again, other board members tried to move on from that.

Any one can put any thing on paper and make it look good. I too was leaning Nor-Gen...but the interviews and presentations really revealed who had their stuff together and who didn't. Peach is prepared to develop the ENTIRE site and put housing in...whereas Nor-Gen were not excited at all about putting housing on the site and they had no concrete funding for the UofA building or northside plaza.

Lastly, another thing that caught my attention: the good-sport/bad-sport labeling. Moore was attacking Peach about their lawsuit (which in my peanut gallery opinion they have a right to)...yet, Norville towards the end threw out a statement that if the 300+ resident proposal wins out...then that will jeopardize his Exhibition Center. To me that was a bad sport statement that really bothered me.

[Ted Lyons]

He was told numerous times that if this was just a vote, then yes, make your speech and vote your way. HOWEVER, this RFP and procurement process is based on scoring and evaluations...so if he's already telling everyone who he wants...then he's obviously not scoring and evaluating by the given criteria. It took the Rio Nuevo attorney and members of the board several times to explain that to him...and Moore went nuts.

The other uncomfortable moment was when Moore asked Peach what would they do if they did not win...would they continue their lawsuit, or will they be good sports. Obviously Peach Properties was put on the spot and its not an appropriate question to be asked or an appropriate answer to be given...yet Moore kept on and on. Again, other board members tried to move on from that.

Any one can put any thing on paper and make it look good. I too was leaning Nor-Gen...but the interviews and presentations really revealed who had their stuff together and who didn't. Peach is prepared to develop the ENTIRE site and put housing in...whereas Nor-Gen were not excited at all about putting housing on the site and they had no concrete funding for the UofA building or northside plaza.

Lastly, another thing that caught my attention: the good-sport/bad-sport labeling. Moore was attacking Peach about their lawsuit (which in my peanut gallery opinion they have a right to)...yet, Norville towards the end threw out a statement that if the 300+ resident proposal wins out...then that will jeopardize his Exhibition Center. To me that was a bad sport statement that really bothered me.

Yeah, the way Tim Steller framed it was that Nor-Gen said they wouldn't build the exhibition center if they lost, which is asinine.

[Azstar]

You can pretty much count on the Tucson City Council to make the wrong decision.

[hthomas]

You can pretty much count on the Tucson City Council to make the wrong decision.

This is a Rio Nuevo proposal the City of Tucson Mayor and Council have no vote on this.

[ComplotDesigner]

Tucson outlet mall to break ground for construction

Posted: Aug 14, 2014 9:31 PM MST
Updated: Aug 14, 2014 9:34 PM MST
By Christine Pae

TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) - Crews are scheduled to break ground for a new outlet mall in Marana by the end of August, paving the way for construction over the next year.

Full article. (http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/26286734/tucson-outlet-mall-to-break-ground-for-construction)

http://kold.images.worldnow.com/images/4489229_G.jpg

[southtucsonboy77]

Tucson outlet mall to break ground for construction



Can't wait! Marana and the developer were serious about getting the Archs done...I saw them out there day and night. If there is a Polo outlet in the mall, I'll be in heaven. :)

[Ritarancher]

Tucson outlet mall to break ground for construction



Can't wait! Marana and the developer were serious about getting the Archs done...I saw them out there day and night. If there is a Polo outlet in the mall, I'll be in heaven. :)

This is pretty good news. I'm excited for the development. I'm a little concerned about how it will affect the Tucson and Park Malls because only a fool would pay full price for the same product.
I'm hoping for a Fossil store lol!!

[Ted Lyons]

Looks like Moore gets his wish:

http://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/norville-wins-first-crack-at-rio-nuevo-property/article_f301456c-fd8e-5239-8152-445b3fd19de8.html

This guy has no business being on this board. Voting 1,000-70 after clearly violating the rules is only only going to delay the project and give Rio Nuevo a bad name again.