Tucson Development Thread

[Ritarancher]

http://azremagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rsz_se_corner_of_job.jpg

AZRE (http://azremagazine.com/economic-development/beal-derkenne-3rd-student-housing-project-18-months)

For a second I thought that it meant another apartment buildig would rise. But park avenue is good too.
As for Pizzaria Bianco. This is great news!!! I can't wait to see how congress shapes up in the next year or so.
I'm kinda against pinal county. I read that the estimated population of casa grande was supposed to surpass Tucson in about 2040. I vowed to not let this happen. But some of the Tucson Metro area is in pinal. Hopefully Pima county could be split into the Tucson metro area and take some of pinal county as well. Kinda like Denver.

[Patrick S]

For a second I thought that it meant another apartment buildig would rise. But park avenue is good too.
As for Pizzaria Bianco. This is great news!!! I can't wait to see how congress shapes up in the next year or so.
I'm kinda against pinal county. I read that the estimated population of casa grande was supposed to surpass Tucson in about 2040. I vowed to not let this happen. But some of the Tucson Metro area is in pinal. Hopefully Pima county could be split into the Tucson metro area and take some of pinal county as well. Kinda like Denver.
I think those population projections were from before the recession. With the crash of the housing market and the rise in gas prices, I don't see this happening, at least not by the date they projected. Exurban growth is out, city-living, with walkable neighborhoods and suburban living with good, reliable transit, is what people want now.

[aznate27]

DENSER STUDENT HOUSING GOING UP

First tower west of UA set to get a 13-story neighbor (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/first-tower-west-of-ua-set-to-get-a-/article_dee8c2e9-3071-5ba8-9a7d-149d688a0a79.html)

A second crane has moved in on North Park Avenue near the University of Arizona as construction begins on a new high-rise complex for students.

Called Park Avenue, the project is the second for Chicago-based Campus Acquisitions, which is also developing the neighboring tower known as Level - set to open this fall.

The two towers will provide nearly 1,000 bedrooms for student housing. Both complexes will feature rooftop swimming pools.

Mike Derkenne, one of the owners of Beal Derkenne Construction, said crews working on Park Avenue are currently excavating to build a two-story underground parking garage. The complex is expected to open for the fall 2014 semester... (click link for full article).

[Patrick S]

DENSER STUDENT HOUSING GOING UP

First tower west of UA set to get a 13-story neighbor (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/first-tower-west-of-ua-set-to-get-a-/article_dee8c2e9-3071-5ba8-9a7d-149d688a0a79.html)

A second crane has moved in on North Park Avenue near the University of Arizona as construction begins on a new high-rise complex for students.

Called Park Avenue, the project is the second for Chicago-based Campus Acquisitions, which is also developing the neighboring tower known as Level - set to open this fall.

The two towers will provide nearly 1,000 bedrooms for student housing. Both complexes will feature rooftop swimming pools.

Mike Derkenne, one of the owners of Beal Derkenne Construction, said crews working on Park Avenue are currently excavating to build a two-story underground parking garage. The complex is expected to open for the fall 2014 semester... (click link for full article).
The story did contain one error. It said that the Hub hadn't broken ground yet. That's my comment (the second overall comment) in the comment section, pointing out the error and putting a link to the cameras of the construction area.

[nickw252]

The story did contain one error. It said that the Hub hadn't broken ground yet. That's my comment (the second overall comment) in the comment section, pointing out the error and putting a link to the cameras of the construction area.

Which corner of 1st St and Tyndall is the Hub going on? There's going to be a lot of student housing in that area. Hopefully they use the steeetcar. Anyone care to post pics of the progress?

[Patrick S]

Tucson airport eyes terminal makeover to meet changing demands of air travel (http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/tucson-airport-eyes-terminal-makeover-to-meet-changing-demands-of/article_193270b6-add3-11e2-b3bf-0019bb2963f4.html)
By David Hatfield

Walk into the departures level of the terminal at Tucson International Airport these days and among the most obvious features are the airline ticket counters — the empty counters.
Despite the overall modern look from the last renovation completed eight years ago, it’s obvious this is a terminal that was designed to accommodate airlines that once made Tucson a regular stop, including Aeromexico, America West, Arizona Airways, Braniff, Continental, Frontier, Hughes Airwest, JetBlue, Northwest, PSA, Reno, Republic and TWA. Some withdrew service from Tucson, but most, nine of them, are airline names that no longer exist.
Assuming regulators approve, another name will begin to fade away by year’s end when US Airways is combined into American, leaving it, Alaska, Delta, Southwest and United as just five airlines serving the airport.
This is also an airport terminal designed before Sept. 11, 2001, and the security measures that came afterward.
And one other important contributing factor is how airlines have adapted to technological advances that now allow passengers to get boarding passes on their smartphones and to use self-bagging and tagging services.
All of which means its time to start looking at a Terminal Renovation Improvement Project (TRIP). The Tucson Airport Authority is currently soliciting requests and from firms to provide phasing, programming, design, cost estimating and construction documents and administration. The plan is to award a contract by the end of May.
Lorraine Behr, manager of architectural services for the airport authority, says the project is the result of nearly two years’ work on a terminal optimization study focusing on four areas:
• Improving passenger flow.
• Enhancing customer service levels.
• Optimizing space.
• Increasing revenue for the airport.
“Since 9/11, most passengers want to come in to the terminal, get through the security checkpoint and then get to a place where they can relax,” Behr said. “In our case we’ve found that we have way too much space in the areas pre-security and not enough space post-security.”
Key to the changes being contemplated in the preferred design concept are moving the security checkpoints from “the throat of the concourses,” as Behr puts it, and putting them at the far east and west ends of what are now the airline ticketing counter areas. For those with memories of when these areas were used by airlines, the security entrance to the A Concourse would take the place of the vacant counters last used by ExpressJet and Frontier Airlines and the security area to the B Concourse would take the place of the counters last used by Northwest Airlines and JetBlue.
The security checkpoints are envisioned to have four to six lanes.
In preparing for the renovation, Behr said airport officials reviewed mechanical and technical drawings dating back to when the terminal was originally built in 1962. Some areas behind the airline ticket counters have remained largely untouched since then.
All but those who remember using that original terminal back in the 1960s and 1970s might be surprised to learn the south wall of the terminal facing over the airfield features glass, which could come into use again. Once passengers pass through the security checkpoints they would walk behind the airline ticketing offices along a glassed-walkway to the concourse.
“From the entrance to the back of the terminal building it will be sunlight to sunlight, opening the whole area up,” Behr said. “This should be gorgeous when we get it done.”
Currently, the construction budget for the renovation is anywhere from $3 million to $12 million but that will be refined based on final designs and how they impact the terminal building and its infrastructure, Behr said. Yet to be determined is how much of the projects will qualify for funding from federal and state entities.
A goal of TRIP is to make changes that will serve the airport for at least the next 20 years. Included in the preferred design concept are:
• Boosting concession space on the cramped A Concourse by 3,100 square feet, or 40 percent, from the existing 7,500 square feet. About 1,600 square feet, or 20 percent, would be added for concessions on the more spacious B Concourse, which currently has more than 8,500 square feet already being used.
• More space will be made available for kiosks, both for airlines and for things such as ATMs.
• Space will be made available for ticket counters to be reconfigured into a pier concept airlines are finding more efficient. These piers would extend further out toward the front entrance to the airport. (Basically, instead of walking up to a counter and then having to back-track afterway, the pier system has passengers walk up to a kiosk to start the check-in process, then move forward beyond the kiosk to check a bag if necessary, continuing to move forward through the system.)
• Even in the pre-security areas, food, beverage and retail concessions would be relocated closer to where people congregrate. Most likely the Jet Rock restaurant and lounge and the Paradies Desert News and Gift Shop on the mezzanine level would be closed and moved to the ticketing level. One idea is to have the airport authority move its administrative offices into the mezzanine area, allowing for the lease or sale of the current administration building, 7005 S. Plumer Ave.
There’s no timetable for construction, although Behr thinks it could start within a year. She said the phasing will be crucial and making sure each tenant at the airport buys into the plan.

[Ted Lyons]

Which corner of 1st St and Tyndall is the Hub going on? There's going to be a lot of student housing in that area. Hopefully they use the steeetcar. Anyone care to post pics of the progress?

I think most of us have just been using the Level webcam. You can see all three projects on it.

EDIT - The Hub is the project on the left on the NW corner of 1st and Tyndall.

http://www.uebbuilders.com/webcams/tyndall2.html

[ComplotDesigner]

Updates as of 04/25/2013

Joint Justice/Municipal Courts Complex

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/2492/img2467w.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/941/img2468zm.jpg

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5292/img2469b.jpg

One East Broadway

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8061/img2470v.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4247/img2471lw.jpg

[Ritarancher]

Updates as of 04/25/2013

Joint Justice/Municipal Courts Complex

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/2492/img2467w.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/941/img2468zm.jpg

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5292/img2469b.jpg

One East Broadway

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8061/img2470v.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4247/img2471lw.jpg

Those power lines in front of the new courthouse need to go!!

[Anqrew]

Some Shots of LEVEL!

FROM N.E.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/anqrew/image3_zpsa0c4f300.jpeg
FROM EAST
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/anqrew/image2_zps0ef2e881.jpeg
FROM SOUTH
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/anqrew/image1_zps6c3101dd.jpeg

[Anqrew]

also Diablo Burger opens May 4 http://diabloburger.com/index.php

and im sure Proper opens around same time...

FORS has some great pictures on their facebook of both! (thanks DSGNR7 if your the one who posts on the FB)

https://www.facebook.com/FORSarchitecture

[ComplotDesigner]

also Diablo Burger opens May 4 http://diabloburger.com/index.php

and im sure Proper opens around same time...

FORS has some great pictures on their facebook of both! (thanks DSGNR7 if your the one who posts on the FB)

https://www.facebook.com/FORSarchitecture

If you guys click on the menu item "locations" and then "good oak bar" it says coming soon, Tucson, Arizona, EST. 2013. I wonder if it's going to be some place around downtown.

[Ted Lyons]

also Diablo Burger opens May 4 http://diabloburger.com/index.php

and im sure Proper opens around same time...

FORS has some great pictures on their facebook of both! (thanks DSGNR7 if your the one who posts on the FB)

https://www.facebook.com/FORSarchitecture

I heard a few days ago that Proper was scheduled to have their soft opening next week, so that would match up.

[Ted Lyons]

For anyone who doesn't know, FORS started a Twitter account the other day and mentioned that it would be a source for news on restaurant and hotel openings. The hotel part piqued my interest.

[aznate27]

Downtown not just for Sun Tran (http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/opinion/editorials/downtown-not-just-for-sun-tran/article_54ef164e-ade8-11e2-9132-0019bb2963f4.html)

Posted: Friday, April 26, 2013 12:00 am

Inside Tucson Business


Downtown Tucson is no longer a means to an end — it’s a destination in its own right.

The changing dynamics of downtown has sparked an effort to re-evaluate uses for the 21-year-old Ronstadt Transit Center.

Already, though, the visioning process has prompted some to start couching the arguments as “us” versus “them.”

Mix that in with talk of winners and losers and it’s doomed from the outset.

An organization called the Tucson Bus Riders Union is concerned that users of the Ronstadt Transit Center will be shunted to “back-alley space” while space along Congress Street and Sixth Avenue is turned over to private interests.

Meanwhile, business owners who have relocated downtown wonder why so many diesel-belching buses all need to converge — one right after another — downtown. The congestion alone inhibits the ability for people to move around.

There is opportunity somewhere in between the two arguments... (full article at link)

[Anqrew]

If you guys click on the menu item "locations" and then "good oak bar" it says coming soon, Tucson, Arizona, EST. 2013. I wonder if it's going to be some place around downtown.

Good Oak Bar is in the Rialto building next to DB

and in Regards to the ITB Sun Tran Editorial... I completely agree with it!

specifically this:

"It is evident, however, that not everyone who rides a Sun Tran bus is interested in going downtown. Nor, it appears, would riders be concerned if their connecting point were someplace other than the Ronstadt Transit Center."

"Tucson’s downtown is standing on its own with exciting restaurants and nightlife and a burgeoning retail sector. It is a destination. Sun Tran doesn’t need to find artificial reasons to force people downtown when they don’t want to be there."

[nickw252]

Tallahassee recently decentralized their bus system resulting in fewer lines going through downtown. My understanding is that at has worked well so far. It may be a good idea for Tucson to look into that.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2011/09/tallahassee-bus-system/118/

Ridership increased a year after implementation:

Despite an initial and expected small drop in the early months of the transition, by January 2012, ridership numbers were up about 15 percent compared to the same month the previous year.

http://www.governing.com/blogs/view/How-Tallahassee-Overhauled-Its-Transit-System-Overnight.html

[Patrick S]

Good Oak Bar is in the Rialto building next to DB

and in Regards to the ITB Sun Tran Editorial... I completely agree with it!

specifically this:

"It is evident, however, that not everyone who rides a Sun Tran bus is interested in going downtown. Nor, it appears, would riders be concerned if their connecting point were someplace other than the Ronstadt Transit Center."

"Tucson’s downtown is standing on its own with exciting restaurants and nightlife and a burgeoning retail sector. It is a destination. Sun Tran doesn’t need to find artificial reasons to force people downtown when they don’t want to be there."
You know, I never looked at it this way, but this article brings up some interesting points. I think they could still have the hub of transit (including the bus) downtown, but have it in a better location. What about moving the bus hub down by I-10 and Granada/Cushing St., maybe to the northwest of the street (right next to the Greyhound station). This would be right by the streetcar (and a stop is being built right there) which could take people into the core of downtown. This would also get people right to the Greyhound station. They could build a joint use area, with Greyhound possibly helping a little with the funding (they wouldn't be using it as much as the city, I'd imagine - I also imagine much funding would be from the city selling the property that the Ronstadt transit center sets on now). The traffic would me moved out of the center of downtown and a new area for a new building (or even 2) would be opened up. This spot would be perfect. Busses coming up from the south and east on I-10 could take the 22nd St. exit and use the frontage road to the location. Those coming from the north and northwest on I-10 could use the Congress exit and use the southbound frontage road to Cushing St. Busses coming from the east, south of 22nd St. could funnel onto that street (especially if they ever widen it to 3 lanes each way like the RTA says they will - I think it's been pushed back a little though). Even the busses coming up Aviation Hwy could use this, as there is an exit onto Kino and then a right exit (after the overpass is finished being built at 22nd St.) onto 22nd St. After the Downtown Links is finished these busses on Aviation could even just take the link to the southbound I-10 frontage road at St. Mary's to Cushing St. Busses from the northeast could funnel onto Grant after it's completely widened to I-10, then off at Congress St. and down the frontage road to Cushing St. This may even help bring more people and traffic into the area of the Tucson Convention Center and the west-side of downtown (the Gadsden area). Problem solved - central downtown is not as congested, there's still a link to central downtown via regular bus routes and the streetcar, the space the Rondstadt is on now can be sold and built on, better use for the Greyhound bus station (probably joined and upgraded with the Sun Tran lot/transit center), new transit center located right by I-10, could help bring more people to underdeveloped western end of downtown.

[Patrick S]

First off, thank you ComplotDesigner and Anqrew for the great pictures.

Secondly, just looked at the camera for the Level, and it looks like the elevator shaft has started coming out of the ground at the Hub.

[DSGNR7]

also Diablo Burger opens May 4 http://diabloburger.com/index.php

and im sure Proper opens around same time...

FORS has some great pictures on their facebook of both! (thanks DSGNR7 if your the one who posts on the FB)

https://www.facebook.com/FORSarchitecture

It is more of a team effort, but we are definitely trying to boost our social media presence. We are just started something called FORS @ 4, where everyday at 4pm we will post a photo update of one of our projects.

Proper's fb page has also been posting some great photos. http://www.facebook.com/propertucson

Proper and Diablo are very close to opening. It is all hands on deck to get them open in the next week. The last two big events of spring (Mother's Day and graduation) are really important for restaurants as they head into the slow summer months, so if you are looking for somewhere to take Mom or to celebrate a graduation, be sure to support these great new additions to downtown.

[Ted Lyons]

Diablo Burger opens Saturday according to this Downtown Tucson article.

http://www.downtowntucson.org/2013/04/13563/

[aznate27]

Downtown Tucson + 1000 More College Students (http://www.downtowntucson.org/2013/03/downtown-tucson-1000-more-college-students/)

Interesting Statistics on what 1000 new students living near downtown will need. I bet you some grocery store or CVS like store is looking at these numbers closely. I think once all the new residence move into downtown in the next year or so, we'll see a Trader Joe's or CVS go into downtown.

Here's a more detailed article...

All Those New Folks Downtown — How Do We Market To Them? (http://www.downtowntucson.org/2013/03/all-those-new-folks-downtown-how-do-we-market-to-them/)

[aznate27]

I know some on here are actually in the business, anyone hear any rumors or news on what might happen to the old Wildcat House property?? I drive by it all the time on my way to and from work and I see HUGE potential of a new mini neighborhood that compliments The Standard student housing that is across the street. I envision something along the lines of this:

http://azremagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/rsz_liv.jpg

All along that side of the street is nothing but vacant lots and shuttered buildings. Would be nice to see some investment in that area.

[Patrick S]

Tucson airport’s master plan puts it at the heart of logistics center (http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/tucson-airport-s-master-plan-puts-it-at-the-heart/article_1e9f7dfc-add6-11e2-970d-0019bb2963f4.html)
By David Hatfield

What began as an effort to make sure Raytheon Missile Systems would have a long, secure future home has become something much bigger, putting Tucson International Airport as the logistics hub for the entire Sun Corridor, the “megapolitan” area projected to include more than 9 million people by 2050 stretching from Nogales and Sierra Vista north to Prescott.
At the heart of a 3,000-acre aerospace-defense research center and business park would be a convergence of high-speed roadways and rail links interconnected with the airport that would be able capitalize on its ability to move goods to and from the Sun Corridor and Mexico with other points in the U.S. and to Asian markets.
“Once you to start to look at this thing and put the pieces together, it all of a sudden hits you, ‘oh my gosh,’ the potential here is huge,” said Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry, who initially spearheaded the effort as a means to try to provide a buffer for future expansion of Raytheon Missile Systems.
For its part, the board of directors of the Tucson Airport Authority this month approved an update to the master plan for Tucson International Airport that was first adopted in 1974. It had been updated five times since then, most recently in 2004. Until now, however, the master plan and its updates have focused mostly on its role to meet capacity demands as the Tucson region’s major commercial airport. This “iconic update,” as Jordan Feld, the airport authority’s director of planning, calls it, puts the expansion as part of a concept.
“Coming for a compehensive of analysis of what’s best for the airfield, this is the best policy plan in the history of the airport,” Feld said. “In the process we literally flipped the land mass on its head and with the open land reserves that could literally quadruple what we can do.”
While nobody is suggesting such an expansion is imminent, Feld says other airports would be envious to have that much capacity for expansion in reserve.
In the meantime, he says, the airport can pursue airport-compatible development.
The focal point of the airport’s updated master plan extending out to 2035 adds a second parallel main runway along with some realignments and additional taxiways as safety enhancements for the airport’s mix of airline, air national guard and general aviation aircraft.
Construction of the new runway would allow the airport to segregate arriving from departing aircrafts on two separate runways. The new runway and most of the taxiway improvements are projected to be completed within the next decade.
The additional runway has been a part of previous master plan updates but Feld says those were based on projections for dramatic increases in airline services that failed to materialize since the recession. After dropping dramatically from about 280,000 aircraft operations in 2006 to 200,000 in 2011, the projection now is for a growth rate of about 1.2 percent per year for the next 20 years.
The setback of not completing the parallel runway earlier produced a side benefit, Feld says. The airport was able to work with the Federal Aviation Administration on a revised runway plan that will have less impact on Raytheon Missile System’s site south of the airport.
The airport’s master plan also fits in with a study done by the Joint Planning Advisory Committee of the Pima, Maricopa and Central Arizona associations of government, which identified Tucson International as the primary logistics center moving goods in and out of the Sun Corridor.
To that end, Pima County has proposed:
• Constructing a parkway, and possibly as much as a full-scale freeway, that would go between Interstate 19 south of the airport east to connect at Interstate 10 near Rita Road. As much as 80 percent of commercial produce coming through Nogales’ Mariposa Port of Entry is shipped to points east of Tucson. Construction of the connector roadway would speed those shipments and no longer require trucks to travel all the way into Tucson. The connector would also provide direct road access to the Port of Tucson, which offers rail access both east and west of Tucson, including cargo containers for trans-oceanic shipments.
• Reconstructing the Union Pacific Railroad line south to Nogales, which is the only Arizona rail connection to Mexico.
One other item not included in the written proposals but suggested by Huckelberry is that local leaders push the idea that both an upgraded freight rail line and a high-speed passenger rail line start at Tucson’s airport and go north.
“Building rail lines from the airport north makes sense because as part of logistics center, it could be a revenue generator from the beginning,” Huckelberry said.
Under current plans set out by the Arizona Department of Transportation, the first phase of the rail link isn’t even proposed to go south of downtown Tucson.
With all the excitement over the possibilities of a making the airport area into a logistics center, Pima County didn’t lose sight of the original intent of its plans to develop a buffer around Raytheon Missile Systems and develop a business and industrial complex south of the airport.
Those plans include:
• Realigning Hughes Access Road about 800-feet south, moving farther away from Raytheon’s facilities.
• Relocate the main entrance for the Air National Guard base to Park Avenue. The current entrance off Valencia Road has a bridge crossing a wash and doesn’t provide enough space for vehicles not allowed on the base to turn around.
The key to all of this happening, according to Huckelberry, will require an extraordinary amount of intergovernmental cooperation from the federal government — some of the land is currently owned by the U.S. Air Force — and state and local officials.

[farmerk]

I know some on here are actually in the business, anyone hear any rumors or news on what might happen to the old Wildcat House property??
...
All along that side of the street is nothing but vacant lots and shuttered buildings. Would be nice to see some investment in that area.

I agree. Tucson is pretty much a work in progress especially the central part of it. It would be nice to see some work on the Stone Ave. underpass...maybe, add bigger sculptures than the 4th ave. underpass. 5+ floor buildings lining Stone ave., 1st ave, Speedway blvd, .... etc (Tucson into Paris).

The outskirts of Tucson doesn't need anymore work. They're nice enough. I think more focused should be done in the central part. I was surprised that parts of Speedway Blvd was being worked on...way back, road repairs where focused on the outskirts of Tucson where barely anyone lives or drives.

btw, I drove by the Cadence today ... what do i think now? - it got uglier :yuck:

[Patrick S]

By the way. I meant to mention above, when I posted the article on the Tucson International Airport's master plan and making it a hub for the Sun Corridor, that it kind of sounds like a lot of fanciful, wishful thinking - and I wonder if it would ever really work out that way. That being said, I am glad that people are at least dreaming big. If we never try to do anything special to attract jobs and growth we are never going to be special, attract jobs, or attract growth. Do I think all of the ideas contained in the article will work or are practical - not really. Am I glad they're at least being floated and discussed - darn right I am.

[ppdd]

By the way. I meant to mention above, when I posted the article on the Tucson International Airport's master plan and making it a hub for the Sun Corridor, that it kind of sounds like a lot of fanciful, wishful thinking - and I wonder if it would ever really work out that way. That being said, I am glad that people are at least dreaming big. If we never try to do anything special to attract jobs and growth we are never going to be special, attract jobs, or attract growth. Do I think all of the ideas contained in the article will work or are practical - not really. Am I glad they're at least being floated and discussed - darn right I am.

There is a LOT of transportation planning going on statewide right now, trying to set a future path for logistics, freight flow, travel corridors, etc., from the border up the entire Sun Corridor. Everything from rail, to interstate 11, to economic development opportunities related to ports in Mexico and California. This is long term stuff, but the Tucson area is getting in the game in a way that hasn't happened before, so some of this "wishful thinking" may well become reality.

[Patrick S]

There is a LOT of transportation planning going on statewide right now, trying to set a future path for logistics, freight flow, travel corridors, etc., from the border up the entire Sun Corridor. Everything from rail, to interstate 11, to economic development opportunities related to ports in Mexico and California. This is long term stuff, but the Tucson area is getting in the game in a way that hasn't happened before, so some of this "wishful thinking" may well become reality.
Like I said, I'm glad they're at least dreaming big. I like the idea of the aerospace parkway/freeway down south of the airport/Raytheon area. I've also posted in the past about I-11 (which I totally support - even though it may not directly come through Tucson, it is still important for the Sun Corridor's - and all of the southwest's - growth) and High-speed rail (HSR). I've even posted links to articles about Cali's HSR project that is supposed to break ground this year. This may not be in our state, but it is a neighboring state and a state that is a trend-setter i this country. I'm just a little skeptical of this statement, "putting Tucson International Airport as the logistics hub for the entire Sun Corridor". I just don't see that as happening - anytime soon at least. Again, that said, I support at least trying some of this and I like the big dreams. You never do big things without big dreams.

[Patrick S]

Here's an interesting article on BizTucson's website. It's pretty long so I'm not gonna put the whole thing up (just use the link provided), but I'll put some of the interesting parts I found.

Banking on Downtown (http://www.biztucson.com/biznews/cover-story/436-banking-on-downtown)
10 REASONS FOR OPTIMISM
By Dan Sorenson

The recent settlement between the Rio Nuevo District and the City of Tucson lifted the dark cloud of litigation from downtown revitalization efforts and revealed new cause for optimism about the city center’s future.

The settlement lets the two sides get back to what they should be doing – which is encouraging development of a livable and prosperous downtown.

Here’s a little-known fact – between 2008 and 2013 the combined public and private investment in downtown totals nearly $800 million, according to the Downtown Tucson Partnership. About $90 million is projected for 2014.

The settlement means Rio Nuevo dropped its lawsuits against the city and assigned ownership of some properties that were disputed. It also restricts Rio Nuevo from spending any money on anything beyond its present commitments until it has made official plans to proceed on work on the Tucson Convention Center and hotel development.

2. Once students move downtown, retail will follow
Stiteler said he sees the retail stage coming soon. “I left a lot of spaces that I could have leased to restaurants or bars. I’ve left them open so I have space when that (retail) comes. That’s a 2014 and 2015 experience. No doubt student housing will make it easier for retailers to get comfortable,” he said.

4. Vertical development mixes residents & business
Also in the works: a 160-unit apartment complex near the Mercado, which is a joint venture of Holualoa Companies and the Gadsden Company.

5. Modern street car means you can get there from here
The Sun Link Tucson Modern Streetcar is just part of the transportation component for the new downtown. A portion of the Ronstadt Transit Center could be used, or it could end up moved or incorporated in a private development on its current location. The city council is currently considering a land swap involving the Ronstadt Transit Center property for 28 acres of pristine desert land, known as Painted Hills, west of Silverbell Road and now owned by a Dallas police and fire pension fund.

Downtown Partnership’s Keith said the city is interested in preserving the westside desert property and is doing a “best practices” study, investigating ways other cities have incorporated transit stations into buildings. The station could end up underground, below a mixed use retail-residential-office building, or adjacent to it on property between the current transit center and the west end of the train station on Toole Avenue.

[ppdd]

Like I said, I'm glad they're at least dreaming big. I like the idea of the aerospace parkway/freeway down south of the airport/Raytheon area. I've also posted in the past about I-11 (which I totally support - even though it may not directly come through Tucson, it is still important for the Sun Corridor's - and all of the southwest's - growth) and High-speed rail (HSR). I've even posted links to articles about Cali's HSR project that is supposed to break ground this year. This may not be in our state, but it is a neighboring state and a state that is a trend-setter i this country. I'm just a little skeptical of this statement, "putting Tucson International Airport as the logistics hub for the entire Sun Corridor". I just don't see that as happening - anytime soon at least. Again, that said, I support at least trying some of this and I like the big dreams. You never do big things without big dreams.

Agreed.

[Patrick S]

In the next Tucson city council meeting (May 7th, 2013), the council will take up the idea of the proposed Rialto Block and Fifth & Congress Hotel - specifically whether to proceed with a notice of intent to enter into a retail development tax incentive agreement. (http://www.tucsonaz.gov/sirepub/cache/2/colzrf45bm0xnj55a1qzodmt/523006405022013100247203.PDF) The proposed project includes a new 3-story building with retail and restaurants and a 6-story hotel built over the Depot Plaza Garage.

[Ted Lyons]

So, a minor story I've picked up from various sources is that a cafe is going in the lobby of the Coronado Hotel at 4th and 9th. Per Tucson Weekly, a liquor license application was just submitted by a business called "Coronet" at that location. Meanwhile, the city shows an application to restore the sign at the Coronado Hotel and revert the "apartment" sign to the original "cafe" sign. In that application is a support letter from the Iron Horse neighborhood association for a cafe called "The Continental" at 4th and 9th. "Coronet" and "The Continental" are clearly the same thing with different names. In any case, that'll be a great enhancement to that building and the Iron Horse people seem to think the cafe will be a great addition to their neighborhood.

[aznate27]

In the next Tucson city council meeting (May 7th, 2013), the council will take up the idea of the proposed Rialto Block and Fifth & Congress Hotel - specifically whether to proceed with a notice of intent to enter into a retail development tax incentive agreement. (http://www.tucsonaz.gov/sirepub/cache/2/colzrf45bm0xnj55a1qzodmt/523006405022013100247203.PDF) The proposed project includes a new 3-story building with retail and restaurants and a 6-story hotel built over the Depot Plaza Garage.

Pretty excited about this project. I work in the hotel industry at one of the top hotels in the world, and it would be nice to see a new hotel of quality go downtown. Still pissed about the Hotel Tucson, would LOVE to see that torn down and a mix use hotel/residence tower go up in it's place. Something like 18 to 25 floors.

[Ritarancher]

At this point it has been probably close to a full recovery from the recession for Tucson. At least for jobs. Here are some articles I found

This one is a year old and we might have covered it already, I'm not too sure.

http://thegazette.com/2012/06/11/involta-building-15-million-data-center-in-tucson-its-7th-facility/

Here's the best cities for jobs in 2020
http://pattyinglishms.hubpages.com/hub/Best_Cities_USA_Jobs

Tucson is above Atlanta, Austin, Sacramento, Albuquerque and Oklahoma City just to name a few.

Phoenix is number two. Arizona for the win in 2020. The housing market has seemed to recover here too, it's probably not too long until we see rapid population growth again.

It seems that Involta has already moved in to their new location. http://www.involta.com/Multi-Tenant-Data-Center/Locations/Tucson,-AZ.aspx

[Patrick S]

At this point it has been probably close to a full recovery from the recession for Tucson. At least for jobs. Here are some articles I found

This one is a year old and we might have covered it already, I'm not too sure.

http://thegazette.com/2012/06/11/involta-building-15-million-data-center-in-tucson-its-7th-facility/

Here's the best cities for jobs in 2020
http://pattyinglishms.hubpages.com/hub/Best_Cities_USA_Jobs

Tucson is above Atlanta, Austin, Sacramento, Albuquerque and Oklahoma City just to name a few.

Phoenix is number two. Arizona for the win in 2020. The housing market has seemed to recover here too, it's probably not too long until we see rapid population growth again.

It seems that Involta has already moved in to their new location. http://www.involta.com/Multi-Tenant-Data-Center/Locations/Tucson,-AZ.aspx
It's not the housing market in the Tucson area that needs to improve for us to start growing fast again. It's the housing market in places like the midwest we need to improve for us to grow. If people are stuck in their homes because they can't sell them, or because they are going to be selling them for too big of a loss, then they aren't going to be moving. If those markets improve and they can get out of their homes, then they'll start moving back to places like here, Phoenix, Vegas, Cali and Florida. We do need our overall economy to improve - to have jobs to attract people, but our housing market will improve after other places - in other words, after other places have improved and their residents want to move here and it drives demand which will drive up prices.

[cdsuofa]

I think the addition of new business will be what spurs Tucson growth the most as well as adds more higher value homes. Getting current companies to expand and new ones to set up locations will get expansion going again and maybe we can keep these well educated U of A grads in town for a change. We have jobs just not as many high paying, high qualification type jobs as a we would want. The city/county need to get creative and attract some companies as well as keep momentum behind the Port of Tucson movement whether it be near Picacho or at the actual place named Port of Tucson that is a big opportunity. We also have to think about sustaining a larger population and we all know Phoenix gets water priority over us. You go up there its landscaped like southern California lol but thats a whole other issue. Tucson will have to work on its water harvesting, conservation, etc to help sustain our growth.

[ComplotDesigner]

Update from 050513

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6222/img2563jb.jpg

[Schaeffa]

Apparently Sixth Ave. will be two-way soon, but the article's kind of confusing me on which stretches. It says between Speedway and Broadway, but then says all of it will be two-way, and then says it'll only have two new signals at Speedway and Sixth St. They just put up new traffic lights at Congress and Sixth Ave. and there isn't a spot to attach an arm for southbound travel and I really hope they find a better solution at Toole than the five-way stop. Anyone know anything else about this project?

Road runner: Stretch of Sixth Ave. downtown will become 2-way soon (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/road-runner-stretch-of-sixth-ave-downtown-will-become-/article_fa681df2-1924-5ee1-a51c-e0812f0f9981.html)
By Becky Pallack — Arizona Daily Star

The city is gearing up for a project to convert Sixth Avenue to two-way traffic between Broadway and Speedway.

And that means another major entryway to downtown Tucson will be under construction, joining Broadway, Congress Street, Granada Avenue and St. Mary's Road.

The project includes new traffic signals at Sixth Avenue and Speedway, and at Sixth Avenue and Sixth Street, said project manager Diahn Swartz.

Part of Sixth was converted to two-way traffic last year during streetcar construction, and when the project is done all of Sixth will have two-way traffic.

There will also be new signs, smoother pavement and new striping, she said.

Between Sixth Street and Speedway, Sixth Avenue will have two northbound lanes and one southbound lane, with parking on both sides of the street. There will be markings for cars to share the road with cyclists.

Construction will begin late this month or early in June and take about three months to complete, Swartz said.

One lane in each direction will stay open during the work, but you could try Stone Avenue as an alternative route.

[soleri]

I think the addition of new business will be what spurs Tucson growth the most as well as adds more higher value homes. Getting current companies to expand and new ones to set up locations will get expansion going again and maybe we can keep these well educated U of A grads in town for a change. We have jobs just not as many high paying, high qualification type jobs as a we would want. The city/county need to get creative and attract some companies as well as keep momentum behind the Port of Tucson movement whether it be near Picacho or at the actual place named Port of Tucson that is a big opportunity. We also have to think about sustaining a larger population and we all know Phoenix gets water priority over us. You go up there its landscaped like southern California lol but thats a whole other issue. Tucson will have to work on its water harvesting, conservation, etc to help sustain our growth.


One of the reasons Phoenix probably needs to "waste" water is simply its urban heat island. It formed around 1970, which is when you notice median nighttime temperatures first starting their inexorable climb upward. If and when Tucson's urban heat island takes shape, it may be necessary to use more water in the center of the metroplex just to cool things down.

Growth is a double-edged sword. Granted, there's the vibrant economy that keeps the city relevant and exciting. But the other side is Phoenix-like dystopia. As long as Phoenix remains the model, you need to watch out for the negative ramifications of endless sprawl. As it is, Tucson does a good job looking green with mesquites and other low-water plants. Insofar as they give Tucson a more natural appearance, all the better.

Phoenix is too much. Two would be too many.

[ProfessorMole]

Student Housing in Historic Neighborhood (https://www.azpm.org/p/top-news/2013/5/6/24171-student-housing-changes-historic-neighborhood-skyline-near-ua/)

Above article just showed up on Arizona Public Media. Student Housing projects listed in the article are below:

Among the new housing complexes:
- The District on 5th: 550 N. 5th Ave., 768 students. Opened in 2012.
- Level phase 1: 1042 N. Tyndall Ave., 570 students. Scheduled to open August 2013.
- The Retreat, Park and 22nd Street, 774 students. Scheduled to open August 2013.
- The Cadence, 345 and 350 E. Congress St., 465 students. Scheduled to open August 2013.
- Level phase 2: 1020 N. Tyndall Ave., 390 students. Scheduled to open August 2014. I think this is supposed to be Park Ave.
- HUB at Tucson, 1011 N. Tyndall Ave., 590 students. Scheduled to open August 2014.
- Junction at Iron Horse, 504 E. 10th St., 185 students. Scheduled to open August 2014.

[Anqrew]

So i drove past Proper last night and i suppose they had a "Friends and Family" opening and today is the public opening. And can I just say it looks amazing. I cant believe how much this corner has opened up and become even more vibrant than before. For the first time in a while i felt an overwhelming changing of the tides downtown. While taking glimpses while driving past i thought to myself "i feel like im in a different new city" it was a great feeling and vibe i got from this place, can't wait to go there. The entire ambience and feeling was great, it was so open and the bar connecting outside was a great touch. It has done so much for this corner! i cant believe there was a time when this entire corner was empty about 2 years ago! I cant even imagine what it will be like with everything else open and streetcar running.

[Anqrew]

Update from 050513

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6222/img2563jb.jpg

I really hope soon that Jack in the Box is eventually razed and replaced with a nice 6 story building like the zoning allows. That corner would make for such a nice retail or restaurants lining the street with apartments above...

[Ted Lyons]

So i drove past Proper last night and i suppose they had a "Friends and Family" opening and today is the public opening. And can I just say it looks amazing. I cant believe how much this corner has opened up and become even more vibrant than before. For the first time in a while i felt an overwhelming changing of the tides downtown. While taking glimpses while driving past i thought to myself "i feel like im in a different new city" it was a great feeling and vibe i got from this place, can't wait to go there. The entire ambience and feeling was great, it was so open and the bar connecting outside was a great touch. It has done so much for this corner! i cant believe there was a time when this entire corner was empty about 2 years ago! I cant even imagine what it will be like with everything else open and streetcar running.

I just got home from Proper. For the first day, the service and food were great. It's a bit pricey but they'll have a happy hour eventually, which will make it a really great place. The view from the bar with the windows open was really amazing. I can't wait until the patios along Congress get approved.

[Ted Lyons]

Student Housing in Historic Neighborhood (https://www.azpm.org/p/top-news/2013/5/6/24171-student-housing-changes-historic-neighborhood-skyline-near-ua/)

Above article just showed up on Arizona Public Media. Student Housing projects listed in the article are below:

Among the new housing complexes:
- The District on 5th: 550 N. 5th Ave., 768 students. Opened in 2012.
- Level phase 1: 1042 N. Tyndall Ave., 570 students. Scheduled to open August 2013.
- The Retreat, Park and 22nd Street, 774 students. Scheduled to open August 2013.
- The Cadence, 345 and 350 E. Congress St., 465 students. Scheduled to open August 2013.
- Level phase 2: 1020 N. Tyndall Ave., 390 students. Scheduled to open August 2014. I think this is supposed to be Park Ave.
- HUB at Tucson, 1011 N. Tyndall Ave., 590 students. Scheduled to open August 2014.
- Junction at Iron Horse, 504 E. 10th St., 185 students. Scheduled to open August 2014.

It must be. The address is obviously wrong but it directs back to the lot that Level fully occupies.

EDIT - The last paragraph of the story about The Cadence was enlightening.

"(The development) is going to add a component to Armory Park that Armory Park doesn’t have, which is retail," Izmirian said. "Our development partner, Jim Campbell, is working on bringing a market to our site which is one of the things that Armory Park really wants.”

[Ritarancher]

Students don't want to live in an home made 100 years ago that needs constant repair and yard cleaning and to be without air conditioning in our Tucson summers. Students want to live in an area where there's very little maintenance required and to top it all off a grand view of the city, or the side of another building... My point is, is that Level,Hub and friends are just giving the people what they want. It's not their fault that people prefer to live in an upscale apartment rather than an old hot home. I personally know of many people who many years ago have told me that they would want to live in an apartment or condo tower because of the lack of maintenance required and the closeness to other services. These people wanted to stay in Tucson but could not find what they're looking for and left. I noticed in the video that west university is emptying out of the student renters. Of course it's emptying!! What student wants to live in a really old home! If anything the emptying of the houses will help the creation of new student apartments or even regular apartments for the coming years. Once again west university has failed to prove it's importance in Tucson. Besides we're not demolishing all of the homes. I've seen the zoning map.

[Ted Lyons]

Another note from today: I was driving down 4th and saw a liquor license notification outside the somewhat derelict building southeast of Maloney's, right on the corner of 4th and 9th. I stopped to look at it and the business is called "Hudson Restaurant & Bar." I just looked it up on PRO and a MDR was approved for the project last summer. The rendering included with the MDR application is below.

http://i.imgur.com/lluEOpb.png

[Anqrew]

Nice, took me a while to figure out which building that was! that corner needs it, now something needs to be done with that parking lot in front of Maloneys...

[Patrick S]

I really hope soon that Jack in the Box is eventually razed and replaced with a nice 6 story building like the zoning allows. That corner would make for such a nice retail or restaurants lining the street with apartments above...
I wish it would get moved, but I doubt it. With 2 new 13 story or so buildings going up right next to the Jack-In-The-Box and another a block or so away (all filled with hungry college students who don't have tons of money or time to spend at good restaurants), that place is going to be always busy.

[bthom3000]

Students don't want to live in an home made 100 years ago that needs constant repair and yard cleaning and to be without air conditioning in our Tucson summers. Students want to live in an area where there's very little maintenance required and to top it all off a grand view of the city, or the side of another building... My point is, is that Level,Hub and friends are just giving the people what they want. It's not their fault that people prefer to live in an upscale apartment rather than an old hot home. I personally know of many people who many years ago have told me that they would want to live in an apartment or condo tower because of the lack of maintenance required and the closeness to other services. These people wanted to stay in Tucson but could not find what they're looking for and left. I noticed in the video that west university is emptying out of the student renters. Of course it's emptying!! What student wants to live in a really old home! If anything the emptying of the houses will help the creation of new student apartments or even regular apartments for the coming years. Once again west university has failed to prove it's importance in Tucson. Besides we're not demolishing all of the homes. I've seen the zoning map.

I completely agree!

[aznate27]

Looks like the Pioneer Building Downtown was finally able to get some of that empty space filled. It isn't a very good article, doesn't say how much of the building was leased or what floors. But since it had pretty high vacancy levels, I see this as good news. The lower the occupancy for office space downtown, the better the chance of new office space, maybe a new high-rise getting built in the near future.

Non-profit, Collaborative Workspace Gangplank Finds New Home Downtown (http://www.downtowntucson.org/2013/05/non-profit-collaborative-workspace-gangplank-finds-new-home-downtown/)

Gangplank Tucson invites the community to celebrate the grand re-opening of their new collaborative workspace located Downtown in the historic Pioneer Building at 100 N. Stone Ave., Suite 110, on Wednesday, May 22 from 5:30pm-9:30pm....

[Patrick S]

Golf course planned as college site (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/golf-course-planned-as-college-site/article_ba3ecd83-db73-5862-8028-0bd58e1835c9.html)
CITY IS IN TALKS TO SELL, LEASE EL RIO TO PRIVATE GRAND CANYON UNIVERSITY

Darren DaRonco Arizona Daily Star

Tucson's El Rio Golf Course appears to be the leading contender to become the home of a new campus of Grand Canyon University.

City officials have been negotiating with the university to sell or lease the west-side course to the Phoenix-based private Christian university.

The city proposed the golf course once it was revealed Tucson was on the university's short list for expansion, said City Councilwoman Regina Romero. Grand Canyon officials could not be reached for comment.

"When they asked us what site, we offered them the El Rio golf course," Romero said. "I think it's a really great opportunity to bring in high-paying jobs and economic development."

El Rio opened in the 1930s and was the original home to Tucson's annual PGA tournament. The city took it over as a municipal course in 1968.

Last fall, the City Council voted to consider converting El Rio into a hybrid nine-hole course and park if a private management group couldn't be found to run the city's golf courses. The city is still in the process of reviewing proposals.

Although early in the negotiations, Romero said, the city has identified some of the things it would like to see from the university in any deal.

Among the things the city is requesting are bike and pedestrian paths connecting to west-side parks, money for necessary infrastructure improvements at Murrieta Park and public access to the university's intramural sports fields.

"I am making sure it is going to be good experience with the neighbors and their needs. First and foremost, we want some gates down," Romero said. "We want that access for the neighbors. … We are going to look for those things to show a tangible infrastructure-win for the neighborhood."

An agreement would mean the end of golf at El Rio because the university plans would require the entire 109 acres.

A potential roadblock to any deal would be what would happen with the First Tee program.

The Tucson Conquistadores, which sponsor the First Tee program, signed a 15-year lease with the city and put about $1 million of improvements into El Rio for the youth golf program. Several years still remain on the contract.

Councilman Steve Kozachik said the city shouldn't be breaking contracts just because a better deal came along.

"We have a contract with the Conquistadores, and we need to honor that," Kozachik said. "It might not be illegal to break it, but it certainly would be in bad faith."

Assistant City Manager Albert Elias said while it's still early in the negotiations, one thing is for certain: It would be a boon for the city.

"We're excited," Elias said. "It's a great economic development opportunity and educational opportunity, and both are important to this community."

Grand Canyon has about 24,000 student attending at its Phoenix campus. It hopes to open a second campus in the fall of 2014 with 1,000 students and 250 employees. Once built out in 2020, the campus could have up to 6,000 students and 1,000 employees.

[farmerk]

Update from 050513

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6222/img2563jb.jpg

My God! Just passed by that development, it's much nicer if you see it face to face. This design dominates the area! Can't wait to see Park Ave and Hub finished. Can't go wrong with Chicago developers.

[farmerk]

Students don't want to live in an home made 100 years ago that needs constant repair and yard cleaning and to be without air conditioning in our Tucson summers. Students want to live in an area where there's very little maintenance required and to top it all off a grand view of the city, or the side of another building... My point is, is that Level,Hub and friends are just giving the people what they want. It's not their fault that people prefer to live in an upscale apartment rather than an old hot home. I personally know of many people who many years ago have told me that they would want to live in an apartment or condo tower because of the lack of maintenance required and the closeness to other services. These people wanted to stay in Tucson but could not find what they're looking for and left. I noticed in the video that west university is emptying out of the student renters. Of course it's emptying!! What student wants to live in a really old home! If anything the emptying of the houses will help the creation of new student apartments or even regular apartments for the coming years. Once again west university has failed to prove it's importance in Tucson. Besides we're not demolishing all of the homes. I've seen the zoning map.

I second that RRancher! I used to live in those 'historic' houses ... let me just say it requires a lot of maintenance plus some houses don't have enough wattage to plug in your microware, TV and computer at the same time.

I saw this video from AZPM (https://www.azpm.org/p/top-business/2013/5/6/24171-student-housing-changes-historic-neighborhood-skyline-near-ua/) .... I think Chris Gans ( president of the West University Neighborhood Assoc.) is AN IDIOT. Hear that Chris!?

EDIT: More housing development has started at downtown westside. I believe those are the high end apartments promised years ago (besides the Sentinel Plaza). I have a personal interest with this development...according to the developer, the walls will be made of stone plus it's besides I-10. And seems that street car tracks are done in this area, Menlo Park.

[ppdd]

Looks like the Pioneer Building Downtown was finally able to get some of that empty space filled. It isn't a very good article, doesn't say how much of the building was leased or what floors. But since it had pretty high vacancy levels, I see this as good news. The lower the occupancy for office space downtown, the better the chance of new office space, maybe a new high-rise getting built in the near future.

Non-profit, Collaborative Workspace Gangplank Finds New Home Downtown (http://www.downtowntucson.org/2013/05/non-profit-collaborative-workspace-gangplank-finds-new-home-downtown/)

Gangplank Tucson invites the community to celebrate the grand re-opening of their new collaborative workspace located Downtown in the historic Pioneer Building at 100 N. Stone Ave., Suite 110, on Wednesday, May 22 from 5:30pm-9:30pm....

GP is in the first (ground) floor space that was part of Pima County Graphic Services department before it moved, with entry from the main lobby and the Pennington Street side. Another part of the PCGS space has been converted to a conference room and a bike storage space with two showers to make it a more attractive overall space.

[aznate27]

I second that RRancher! I used to live in those 'historic' houses ... let me just say it requires a lot of maintenance plus some houses don't have enough wattage to plug in your microware, TV and computer at the same time.

I saw this video from AZPM (https://www.azpm.org/p/top-business/2013/5/6/24171-student-housing-changes-historic-neighborhood-skyline-near-ua/) .... I think Chris Gans ( president of the West University Neighborhood Assoc.) is AN IDIOT. Hear that Chris!?

EDIT: More housing development has started at downtown westside. I believe those are the high end apartments promised years ago (besides the Sentinel Plaza). I have a personal interest with this development...according to the developer, the walls will be made of stone plus it's besides I-10. And seems that street car tracks are done in this area, Menlo Park.

Are you talking about the new apartments that are supposed to be built next to the six story senior housing? Would be cool if they are starting that one. I think it was supposed to be started around this time.

[AustinBear]

Just as a reply to RitaRancher, in regards to where students want to be living. I agree, all of these new and very cool highrise projects are where students want to be living now. However, I disagree that West University is a failed neighborhood. Yes there are vocal residents who are screaming and whining about changing demographics and development. It's pretty much the situation in any big college town, I live in Austin, and yeah, we've got high rise development near the UT campus, and a lot of old neighborhoods close by. Student organization groups, frats/sororities, and students are occupying a lot of those houses. But so are families, albeit a little further away from the immediate campus area.. It's better for the neighborhood to BE more owner occupied than rental. Tucsons historic neighborhoods are one thing that make the city great, but overzealous aged hippie NIMBY types are going to have to realize they can't wall themselves off either. You live near a university, this kind of development is going to occur...either high density living options, or a lot of retail. Or both. Be glad your city isn't stagnating, Chris Gans....have another belt of Geratol.

[AustinBear]

On an unrelated note, I did want to say hello to all of the cool people on this forum. I'm from Austin, but have always loved Tucson, and have always enjoyed watching it grow. I've been enjoying this forum for several months now, getting a feel for it. And have enjoyed the debates and conversations, there are truly some smart people on here. I will say, I disagree, but respectfully so, with RitaRancher about 4th avenue in Tucson. That is one of the things that make Tucson distinct, cool and different. If you want to live where there's bland mass produced suburban schlock, you could go anywhere in Phoenix, or Las Vegas and find that to your hearts content. What kind of people do you want to attract to your city? You've mentioned Austin a lot, but have you actually been here? If all you think of, in terms of Austin is all the crop of new highrises that have popped up, you're missing the point. I love them too, but there's a lot more to Austins downtown, and the entire city itself than that. I love what's happening in Tucson, I like to think of it as Austin in the Desert. Same kinda atmosphere, same kind of cool. It's a tightrope walk between the authentic and original, and the slick/cool/highrise/new development. Don't bash everything that's old, in favor of boring/bland suburbia. Tucson should not have to look like bland anywheresville to be growing and happening.

[Patrick S]

On an unrelated note, I did want to say hello to all of the cool people on this forum. I'm from Austin, but have always loved Tucson, and have always enjoyed watching it grow. I've been enjoying this forum for several months now, getting a feel for it. And have enjoyed the debates and conversations, there are truly some smart people on here. I will say, I disagree, but respectfully so, with RitaRancher about 4th avenue in Tucson. That is one of the things that make Tucson distinct, cool and different. If you want to live where there's bland mass produced suburban schlock, you could go anywhere in Phoenix, or Las Vegas and find that to your hearts content. What kind of people do you want to attract to your city? You've mentioned Austin a lot, but have you actually been here? If all you think of, in terms of Austin is all the crop of new highrises that have popped up, you're missing the point. I love them too, but there's a lot more to Austins downtown, and the entire city itself than that. I love what's happening in Tucson, I like to think of it as Austin in the Desert. Same kinda atmosphere, same kind of cool. It's a tightrope walk between the authentic and original, and the slick/cool/highrise/new development. Don't bash everything that's old, in favor of boring/bland suburbia. Tucson should not have to look like bland anywheresville to be growing and happening.
Totally agree that it's important for a city to have its own identity. I've never been to Austin - have a few friends that live there - but everything I've ever seen, read, or heard about it, it looks great. I always say that I could never live in Texas (way too conservative for me - but then again, so is AZ), but if I had to I'd want to live in Austin. I for sure want to visit there sometime. I've been to many big cities all over the country and the best ones had their own identity - New Orleans for sure (the food, culture, architecture), San Francisco (again food and culture), Seattle, New York City, Chicago. I've been to Phoenix (of course) and Vegas, but they have no real character - no charm. Vegas doesn't even seem real to me. I want growth, for sure, but I like having a city with funky little places to go to that give it that character that every city should have. I want artists and musicians to want to come here. I want little holes in the wall cafes and restaurants and record stores and clothing stores to go to. It's nice to have Frys and Walmarts (well not Walmart, I hate Walmart) ever few blocks. It's convenient in the outlying areas, but the downtown and central core should try to build up and have locally owned, niche stores to give the area its own charm.

[phxSUNSfan]

I've been to Phoenix (of course) and Vegas, but they have no real character - no charm.

I like reading about some of the developments in Tucson...especially useful when I have to be in Tucson and when I watch the Territorial Cup game there. That said, I think Tucson could learn much about urban development from Tempe and Phoenix; especially doing it in an urban, desert environment. After all, Phoenix's Roosevelt Row was recently called one of the 10 best neighborhoods in the country (Happening hub for art, food)...along with Austin's East Side.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/destinations/2013/04/13/10-best-neighborhoods-that-tourists-havent-found-yet/2078741/

Of course Phoenix's suburbs are no more interesting than Tucson's or Vegas' (or Austin's, for that matter), but it's time to start looking at the state's truly dynamic neighborhoods and using them as a basis for what can be done in once were considered dead zones. It's not in a desert environment, but one of my favorite streets/areas in Arizona is the contiguous blocks of historic buildings, galleries, bars, restaurants, and shops in Flagstaff along Aspen St. ( you can add San Francisco St to that). It is the mountain town's unique version of Mill Ave.

[Patrick S]

Fourth Ave. getting two new restaurants by fall (http://azstarnet.com/entertainment/blogs/caliente-tuned-in/fourth-ave-getting-two-new-restaurants-by-fall/article_22eec2f4-b82c-11e2-bd8f-001a4bcf887a.html)
Cathalena E. Burch Arizona Daily Star

Two new restaurants are springing up on North Fourth Avenue this fall, and both will be housed in buildings with long Tucson histories.

• The old Coronado Hotel downtown, 402 E. Ninth St. at North Fourth Avenue, is about to get a corner diner again. Sally Kane and her business partner, Gregor Kretschmann, will open a European-style cafe in the small space in the fall.

• Tucson architect and restaurateur Jason Anderson is eyeing a pair of old brick buildings at 201 N. Fourth Ave. for a new venture he plans to call Hudson. Planning is in the preliminary stages, so Anderson is not quite sure what shape the menu will take, although he’s leaning toward smoked and rotisserie meats.

Anderson, who also has the popular Umi Star Asian fusion restaurant, hopes to be open by late November.

[Patrick S]

I like reading about some of the developments in Tucson...especially useful when I have to be in Tucson and when I watch the Territorial Cup game there. That said, I think Tucson could learn much about urban development from Tempe and Phoenix; especially doing it in an urban, desert environment. After all, Phoenix's Roosevelt Row was recently called one of the 10 best neighborhoods in the country (Happening hub for art, food)...along with Austin's East Side.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/destinations/2013/04/13/10-best-neighborhoods-that-tourists-havent-found-yet/2078741/

Of course Phoenix's suburbs are no more interesting than Tucson's or Vegas' (or Austin's, for that matter), but it's time to start looking at the state's truly dynamic neighborhoods and using them as a basis for what can be done in once were considered dead zones. It's not in a desert environment, but one of my favorite streets/areas in Arizona is the contiguous blocks of historic buildings, galleries, bars, restaurants, and shops in Flagstaff along Aspen St. ( you can add San Francisco St to that). It is the mountain town's unique version of Mill Ave.
To each there own. I'll admit I've only been to Vegas a couple times (my girlfriend's parents moved there a couple years ago) and both there and Phoenix I haven't explored all that much beyond downtown (and the strip in Vegas) and the outskirts of the city. Let's be fair about the article you reference though - it doesn't say these are the 10 best neighborhoods in the country, it says they are the 10 best in the country that haven't been discovered by tourists. Most big cities I've been too have I've only spent a week or so in - including Seattle, San Francisco, Washington D.C., Boston (actually only 1 night - really was spending time on Martha's Vineyard), New York City, LA, San Diego and New Orleans. Most of these trips were when I was in my teens (so over 15 years ago, though New Orleans was only about 5-6 years ago). I also spent most of the time doing the touristy things, but places like San Fran and New Orleans just have so much uniqueness to them - something only they have. I've spent much time in St. Louis (grew up 2 hours from there) and Chicago (grew up 5-6 hours from there and had many friends in college from there, plus some relatives in the suburbs). Chicago is huge but is so distinct. Most of my time in Phoenix was actually when I was in my teens too - my dad's folks lived in Chandler and we would come out from Illinois to see spring training games (even came down here to Tucson for one or two) over my spring breaks from grade and high school in the early-to-mid '90s. Phoenix is nice, I guess. It's too big for me (I grew up in a town of 25,000 people that was the biggest town for 100 miles). I thought about moving to Chicago after graduating college but it was too big for me. The town I grew up in was a college town. It was rural, and had some things found in big-cities, but it had its own unique, funky charm. Interesting shops and restaurants found only there. I like those kind of things, which is one reason I like Tucson. It has things found in all (or most) big cities, and more opportunities and things to do than where I was from, without being too big. I do want it to grow, but I don't want it to lose the charm and uniqueness it has too.

[phxSUNSfan]

To each there own. I'll admit I've only been to Vegas a couple times

Vegas isn't original in anyway. Even the "historic" neon district seems fake to me and I'm not a big fan of that city. There isn't too much difference between "best neighborhoods" and "best neighborhoods tourist haven't found yet"; in other words, those added words don't take away from the designation...if anything it recognizes the unique vibe which hopefully isn't ruined with more development that is underway. But these neighborhoods tend to find a way to balance those contrasts (new and old).

What I love about Roosevelt in Phoenix is all the historic districts around it...that are still being connected to one another. All the murals painted by local artists makes the area look like a big canvas. I like the colorful shops in Tucson, especially along 4th...hopefully, it keeps that vibrant color scheme as well.

[Ted Lyons]

That said, I think Tucson could learn much about urban development from Tempe and Phoenix

Just because someone mentions Phoenix doesn't mean you have to post this again. We get it.

[Patrick S]

Saw this article below on CNN.com about the best "get-fit" resorts in the USA. Decided I'd look at it on a lark, thinking there might be an outside chance Tucson had a resort on the list. To my surprise the picture that greets you at the top of the article is from the Miraval Resort and the first place mentioned is the Miraval as well. Of the 5 mentioned in the article, the Miraval is one of only two actually located in the US (the others are in Utah; British Columbia, Canada; Costa Rica; and Mexico), and is by far the cheapest. A little good press for the area is nice. Here's what it had to say about it:

Best get-fit retreats in and around the U.S. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/09/travel/wellness-retreats/index.html?hpt=hp_bn10)
By Caitlin Drexler, Executive Travel

Miraval Resort: Tucson, Arizona
Miraval's sprawling 400-acre campus, just outside Tucson, routinely hosts execs from Fortune 500 companies such as Nike and Google. Take part in the Discover Miraval package here (for as many days/nights as you choose) and you'll see why: the healthful pursuits here range from daily yoga and meditation classes to private nutritional consultations to rock climbing up the granite crags of 7,000-foot Mount Lemmon, the highest point in the Santa Catalina Mountains. The vast menu of relaxing body treatments (reflexology, hot stone massage) and the delicious spa cuisine served at the onsite Cactus Flower restaurant certainly don't hurt, either. From $633 per night.

- By the way, I put a comment at the bottom of the article letting people know that Mt. Lemmon is over 9,000 feet in elevation, but since Tucson is over 2,000 feet in elevation it is 7,000 feet (or so) taller than Tucson, and that it is the farthest south ski resort in the continental US.

[farmerk]

Are you talking about the new apartments that are supposed to be built next to the six story senior housing? Would be cool if they are starting that one. I think it was supposed to be started around this time.

aznate27, yep. There's some construction crews and a handful of large construction equipment at that long spot besides the 6 story senior housing. I don't think they're working on the streetcar tracks (as previous visit) because the tracks are laid down as I see it. There's also 2-3 houses that are being built at the Mercado housing developments. Looks like real estate development is picking up in Tucson.

[PHX31]

Just because someone mentions Phoenix doesn't mean you have to post this again. We get it.

I think it's warranted when people mention Phoenix and Las Vegas in the same breath as having no charm. Phoenix and Tucson are much closer to each other than Phoenix and Las Vegas... the comparison is silly. Phoenix has basically the same amount of historical charm (I'm assuming this is where the charm comes in) as Tucson - we both have several historic neighborhoods that surround our downtown, and active areas with unique streets, shops, restaurants, people, etc.. Whereas Las Vegas might have 1 tiny block of pre-war anything (that I have found, at least). Show me anything in Las Vegas that is like Willow, Roosevelt, Coronado (in Phoenix), or Armory Park, West University, or Sam Hughes (in Tucson).

I think the difference between Phoenix and Tucson is Tucson pretty much languished for decades, which is good and bad. Good, because the ugly cycle of historic destruction for urban renewal wasn't as bad in Tucson as it was in Phoenix, but bad because the majority of the rest of the city and suburbs aren't as nice and modern (a lot of that is the cookie cutter garbage we all hate, but there is plenty of nice new modern out there too).

[Ted Lyons]

I think it's warranted when people mention Phoenix and Las Vegas in the same breath as having no charm. Phoenix and Tucson are much closer to each other than Phoenix and Las Vegas... the comparison is silly. Phoenix has basically the same amount of historical charm (I'm assuming this is where the charm comes in) as Tucson - we both have several historic neighborhoods that surround our downtown, and active areas with unique streets, shops, restaurants, people, etc.. Whereas Las Vegas might have 1 tiny block of pre-war anything (that I have found, at least). Show me anything in Las Vegas that is like Willow, Roosevelt, Coronado (in Phoenix), or Armory Park, West University, or Sam Hughes (in Tucson).

I think the difference between Phoenix and Tucson is Tucson pretty much languished for decades, which is good and bad. Good, because the ugly cycle of historic destruction for urban renewal wasn't as bad in Tucson as it was in Phoenix, but bad because the majority of the rest of the city and suburbs aren't as nice and modern (a lot of that is the cookie cutter garbage we all hate, but there is plenty of nice new modern out there too).

This is both insightful and informed. A blanket statement that Tucson should model its urban development after Phoenix, especially as that development regards our desert setting is utterly ridiculous. The model of completely irresponsible water usage and sprawl that most Valley cities have adopted shouldn't be an inspiration for anyone anywhere. On that level, Vegas is arguably a better model than Phoenix.

As for perceived charm, I don't know why anyone would get upset that internet strangers prefer one city to another. I will say that, if we're comparing neighborhood to neighborhood, (which I don't think is the sole/primary definition of "charm" anyway), Phoenix will probably come out on top in terms of pure volume of "historic" neighborhoods because it's been a bigger city since Arizona became a state. However, volume doesn't reflect on a traveler's reality and, as you note, slower development in Tucson (for better or worse) has left us with a larger percentage of midcentury and earlier properties citywide.

[phxSUNSfan]

This is both insightful and informed. A blanket statement that Tucson should model its urban development after Phoenix, especially as that development regards our desert setting is utterly ridiculous. The model of completely irresponsible water usage and sprawl that most Valley cities have adopted shouldn't be an inspiration for anyone anywhere. On that level, Vegas is arguably a better model than Phoenix.

Very inaccurate and highly volatile statements. First, the model I am referring to is in terms of transportation (light rail, expanded bus service including free service offered) and transit oriented development (density near transit stops). No one is referring to modeling the suburban sprawl every U.S. city has. Also, though downtown Phoenix and Tempe are greener than most of Tucson, there are many benefits of this type of shade in urban vicinities. Particularly, it offers denser neighborhoods reprieve and allows more people to enjoy greenspace; thus, water is conserved in the long run (less individual yards/plants to water/creation of underground water basins like at Civic Space Park). More shade also translates into less of an urban heat island which ultimately means that neighborhoods like downtown don't require as much power to cool structures...less power consumption means less water used in the generation of power.

I wouldn't argue that Vegas offers a better model. That city hardly has a transportation system and does not have any neighborhoods with bones that surround large employment centers like downtown or midtown. One thing I always thought was on Tucson's side was having such a large, well-established university so close to downtown; which is basically Tucson's largest employment center and it has those same type of historic neighborhoods around it.

[Ted Lyons]

Very inaccurate and highly volatile statements.

Highly volatile? Uh oh. FYI, they're totally accurate.

First, the model which I am referring to is in terms of transportation (light rail, expanded bus service including free service offered) and transit oriented development (density near transit stops).

On a smaller level, since we're a smaller city, Tucson has adopted these models. This is common knowledge. Even if it hadn't, Phoenix wasn't the pacesetter in this field anyway.

Also, though downtown Phoenix and Tempe are greener than most of Tucson, there are many benefits of this type of shade in urban vicinities.

Grass, residential swimming pools, misters on restaurant patios that blow out into parking lots, and a giant fake river don't provide shade.

I wouldn't argue that Vegas offers a better model.

Water-wise, this is fundamentally false.

[aznate27]

Saw this article below on CNN.com about the best "get-fit" resorts in the USA. Decided I'd look at it on a lark, thinking there might be an outside chance Tucson had a resort on the list. To my surprise the picture that greets you at the top of the article is from the Miraval Resort and the first place mentioned is the Miraval as well. Of the 5 mentioned in the article, the Miraval is one of only two actually located in the US (the others are in Utah; British Columbia, Canada; Costa Rica; and Mexico), and is by far the cheapest. A little good press for the area is nice. Here's what it had to say about it:

Best get-fit retreats in and around the U.S. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/09/travel/wellness-retreats/index.html?hpt=hp_bn10)
By Caitlin Drexler, Executive Travel

Miraval Resort: Tucson, Arizona
Miraval's sprawling 400-acre campus, just outside Tucson, routinely hosts execs from Fortune 500 companies such as Nike and Google. Take part in the Discover Miraval package here (for as many days/nights as you choose) and you'll see why: the healthful pursuits here range from daily yoga and meditation classes to private nutritional consultations to rock climbing up the granite crags of 7,000-foot Mount Lemmon, the highest point in the Santa Catalina Mountains. The vast menu of relaxing body treatments (reflexology, hot stone massage) and the delicious spa cuisine served at the onsite Cactus Flower restaurant certainly don't hurt, either. From $633 per night.

- By the way, I put a comment at the bottom of the article letting people know that Mt. Lemmon is over 9,000 feet in elevation, but since Tucson is over 2,000 feet in elevation it is 7,000 feet (or so) taller than Tucson, and that it is the farthest south ski resort in the continental US.

I'd like to say that I helped in some way to make Miraval one of the top spa resorts in the world...they do sign my paychecks after all:D

[aznate27]

aznate27, yep. There's some construction crews and a handful of large construction equipment at that long spot besides the 6 story senior housing. I don't think they're working on the streetcar tracks (as previous visit) because the tracks are laid down as I see it. There's also 2-3 houses that are being built at the Mercado housing developments. Looks like real estate development is picking up in Tucson.

Cool! Once the west side is built, including some 10 story planned high-rises, it will be nice to see downtown built upwards on both sides of the freeway:tup:

[Patrick S]

Cool! Once the west side is built, including some 10 story planned high-rises, it will be nice to see downtown built upwards on both sides of the freeway:tup:
Didn't know there were any planned 10 story buildings for the west-side of I-10. Though I wouldn't exactly call those high-rises, I totally agree that it will be nice to drive down I-10 and have taller buildings on both sides of the interstate.

[ASUSunDevil]

Highly volatile? Uh oh. FYI, they're totally accurate.



On a smaller level, since we're a smaller city, Tucson has adopted these models. This is common knowledge. Even if it hadn't, Phoenix wasn't the pacesetter in this field anyway.



Grass, residential swimming pools, misters on restaurant patios that blow out into parking lots, and a giant fake river don't provide shade.



Water-wise, this is fundamentally false.

Tucson has some good Mexican food and does a mediocre job of trying to keep up with Tempe's urban development: you're not even in Phoenix's class. Congrats on Pizzeria Bianco and another new Applebee's for your senior citizen's. 41-34.

[phxSUNSfan]

Highly volatile? Uh oh. FYI, they're totally accurate.

They are completely off base...especially in Central Phoenix.


On a smaller level, since we're a smaller city, Tucson has adopted these models. This is common knowledge. Even if it hadn't, Phoenix wasn't the pacesetter in this field anyway.


For desert environments, Phoenix would be. This is particularly true in the integration of native vegetation in downtown and new streetscape projects.

Grass, residential swimming pools, misters on restaurant patios that blow out into parking lots, and a giant fake river don't provide shade.


I know Tucson restaurants use misters as well. However, I think you are missing the point that we are speaking about the downtown and Central City revitalization. The Salt River isn't fake, Tempe's Town Lake is, but interestingly, it is filled with water from its own river upstream. The number of residential swimming pools in Arizona on a whole, have decreased dramatically since the 80's and 90's.

Water-wise, this is fundamentally false.

Water-wise, this is extremely true when comparing Vegas and Phoenix. Vegas actually uses water from Lake Mead to water its golf courses and fill its massive resort fountains. Phoenix, uses gray water for those purposes. Phoenix is also one of the nation's leading cities for building energy efficient buildings:
"The other top metro areas, in descending order, include Chicago (353 buildings), New York (325), Atlanta (304), San Francisco (291), Houston (241), Dallas Fort-Worth (214), Phoenix (202) and Boston (188.) Among the top 10, Phoenix has shown the most improvement, moving from 22nd place in 2008 to ninth last year. New York, which recently required its commercial buildings to disclose their energy use, moved up from 12th in 2008."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/12/us-cities-energy-star-buildings-epa/1982429/

[Ted Lyons]

They are completely off base...especially in Central Phoenix.

Of course, you can't limit the entire city to one specific area. That would be nonsensical.

For desert environments, Phoenix would be. This is particularly true in the integration of native vegetation in downtown and new streetscape projects.

And Tucson is the pacesetter for urban development in Pima County. Again, setting severe unstated limitations on your argument is a waste of everyone's time.

I know Tucson restaurants use misters as well.

I can't think of a single restaurant here that uses misters. Maybe the three at La Encantada. Otherwise, this is false.

However, I think you are missing the point that we are speaking about the downtown and Central City revitalization.

See, when you bring up development as it relates to our natural environment, you kind of aren't talking solely about revitalization.

The number of residential swimming pools in Arizona on a whole, have decreased dramatically since the 80's and 90's.

And this matters how?

Water-wise, this is extremely true when comparing Vegas and Phoenix. Vegas actually uses water from Lake Mead to water its golf courses and fill its massive resort fountains.

You literally just made this up. The fountain at Bellagio, which is all I can figure you're referencing, uses recycled water. The city of Las Vegas has been paying people to remove grass from their yards for years.

Meanwhile, Tempe Town Lake, which only uses some reclaimed water, averages evaporation rates of 5.2 acre feet a day. Even Tempe acknowledges that the lake loses the equivalent of two golf courses worth of water a year to evaporation. I doubt all of the Vegas strip water features combined lose that much water per year.

Phoenix, uses gray water for those purposes.

Another blanket statement disproved by the information above.

I'm really sick of talking about a subject that belongs in the Phoenix threads. Sadly, you've now attracted some slightly more annoying sidekicks to our thread.

[Ted Lyons]

Tucson has some good Mexican food and does a mediocre job of trying to keep up with Tempe's urban development: you're not even in Phoenix's class. Congrats on Pizzeria Bianco and another new Applebee's for your senior citizen's. 41-34.

What's hilarious about this is that there are 25 Applebee's in Phoenix and 4 in Tucson. That's one for every 172k people where you live and one for every 248k people where we live. Keep trying, though. :tup:

[combusean]

City vs city debates or comparing the two or whatever is not kosher for this thread. The next person to comment about that here will have his posts deleted and/or risk suspension.

Please keep the discussion on topic, or start a different thread.

[Ritarancher]

City vs city debates or comparing the two or whatever is not kosher for this thread. The next person to comment about that here will have his posts deleted and/or risk suspension.

Please keep the discussion on topic, or start a different thread.

I sort of agree. Besides comparing Tucson, Phoenix and Las Vegas are like comparing oranges, tangerines and clementines. Each city has a few things special like Las Vegas' strip or the size of Phoenix or Tucson's Rainforest of a desert (Technically our rainfall amounts make us a grassland and not a desert). But please do make a separate page about better types of "citrus". But look in the big picture. The only two countries to have a 1mile by 1mile city grid incorporated into their cities are in the United States and Canada, which I feel should be part of us. If somebody came here from Paris, they'd probably be amazed at how everybody gets their own property and how we have a downtown that has been around since the 1800s and how there are Fry's on every intersection and Walmart and Park Place and our 3 lane roads everywhere and our ECT...... We're not the most unique cities in America but we're very unique on a global scale. So it's hard to determine which city is better. I know first hand that everybody is biased towards a city and would go to war to prove that their city is better than the next. So be nice to the Phoenix people when they bring up something about Phoenix, quit being so defensive. AND yes there are MANY MANY MANY places in Tucson that use misters, I've got some in my backyard as a matter of fact.

[Ted Lyons]

City vs city debates or comparing the two or whatever is not kosher for this thread. The next person to comment about that here will have his posts deleted and/or risk suspension.

Please keep the discussion on topic, or start a different thread.

Thank you for clearing this up.

[Patrick S]

I sort of agree. Besides comparing Tucson, Phoenix and Las Vegas are like comparing oranges, tangerines and clementines. Each city has a few things special like Las Vegas' strip or the size of Phoenix or Tucson's Rainforest of a desert (Technically our rainfall amounts make us a grassland and not a desert). But please do make a separate page about better types of "citrus". But look in the big picture. The only two countries to have a 1mile by 1mile city grid incorporated into their cities are in the United States and Canada, which I feel should be part of us. If somebody came here from Paris, they'd probably be amazed at how everybody gets their own property and how we have a downtown that has been around since the 1800s and how there are Fry's on every intersection and Walmart and Park Place and our 3 lane roads everywhere and our ECT...... We're not the most unique cities in America but we're very unique on a global scale. So it's hard to determine which city is better. I know first hand that everybody is biased towards a city and would go to war to prove that their city is better than the next. So be nice to the Phoenix people when they bring up something about Phoenix, quit being so defensive. AND yes there are MANY MANY MANY places in Tucson that use misters, I've got some in my backyard as a matter of fact.
Though Tucson does receive more rainfall than what normally qualifies for a desert environment, it is still considered as such. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucson): "Tucson has a desert climate (Köppen Bwh), with two major seasons, summer and winter; plus three minor seasons: fall, spring, and the monsoon. Though Tucson receives more precipitation than most other locations with desert climates, it still qualifies due to its high evapotranspiration in spite of receiving 11.8 inches (299.7 mm) of precipitation per year; in other words, it experiences a high net loss of water. A similar scenario is seen in Alice Springs, Australia which averages 11 inches (279.4 mm) a year, but has a desert climate."

[southtucsonboy77]

All I can say is that Diablo Burger was AMAZING! Eat there, now...you won't be disappointed.

Secondly, although not yet fully complete...the integration of all that is happening on Congress/Broadway with 4th Ave. is UNBELIEVABLE. I recently attended the American Planning Association (APA) National Conference in Chicago...and I got to visit more incredible neighborhoods and bar/nightlife districts...and I truly feel that 4th Ave/Congress is just as good as any in Chicago. Yes, Chicago has many more areas and options of bar hopping and nightlife (Old Town was cool), but our gem can hold its own against any Chicago district on an individual basis. And with a streetcar running along it soon? It's gonna kick a$$.

On an educational level...based on what I took from the various sessions on planning and development...Tucson is heading in the right direction. I'm hopeful our proud city has FINALLY learned its lessons (mistakes) from the past and that we can truly respect our history, culture, and environment...be Tucson...yet still advance in our urban and econ development because if we don't...we'll screw everything up again with our suburban development. BTW, both Phoenix and Vegas were poster childs of suburban mistakes-let's not do that again for the sake of the nation-narrative...just saying.

[PHX31]

BTW, both Phoenix and Vegas were poster childs of suburban mistakes-let's not do that again for the sake of the nation-narrative...just saying.

Very true, but true of almost any big city's suburbs in the country. Point is there is more to Phoenix than suburbs. :runaway:

You know what is the absolute best urban area in the state of Arizona (IMO)? Downtown Prescott. Packed with people, lined with historic pedestrian-scaled buildings, tons to do, great park area/gathering place (Courthouse Square). I'll take that over anywhere in the state!

[southtucsonboy77]

Very true, but true of almost any big city's suburbs in the country. Point is there is more to Phoenix than suburbs. :runaway:

You know what is the absolute best urban area in the state of Arizona (IMO)? Downtown Prescott. Packed with people, lined with historic pedestrian-scaled buildings, tons to do, great park area/gathering place (Courthouse Square). I'll take that over anywhere in the state!

Without a doubt Top 5. I have drunken myself silly there before and it was definitely a cool, fun place. Whiskey Row if I recall. Now I feel like I need to take a weekend trip there...hahahaha. Bisbee too.

[Ritarancher]

Let's get back to business

GCU may have found its location

Private Construction, West side

by TIBO

As we wrote about earlier Grand Canyon University has been looking to build a campus in the Tucson area. Tucson offered up a few locations and it seems one has been set out as the favorite. The El Rio Golf course, located on Speedway just west of I-10. Tucson has been down sizing its public golf course operation due to lack of funds and it looks like this may be it for El Rio. The course property is a little over 100 acres. The economic impact and project details were discussed in our previous article. As more information comes we will share it with you.
http://tibo.zxq.net/wordpress/?p=1003

It doesn't seem like the worst location to me, in fact I think it's probably one of the better spots. Hopefully we'll get the campus. With 2000 jobs, our economy will surely pick up. I am assuming that many of the jobs are quality good paying jobs. Maybe our population will hit a small growth spurt.

[Locofresh55]

Is it just the golf course that they are looking to use? This could work if Murrieta park is kept intact as a park. I know the big issue that people have is that fact that Speedway might be big enough to handle additional traffic. Grand Canyon university would do just fine in that region but perhaps additional lanes would benefit that portion of speedway (but of course, widened streets would benefit the majority of Tucson roads right).


I hope this comes to fruition.

[Ritarancher]

Is it just the golf course that they are looking to use? This could work if Murrieta park is kept intact as a park. I know the big issue that people have is that fact that Speedway might be big enough to handle additional traffic. Grand Canyon university would do just fine in that region but perhaps additional lanes would benefit that portion of speedway (but of course, widened streets would benefit the majority of Tucson roads right).


I hope this comes to fruition.

You know, when I looked at the map I thought the same thing. We're going to need to widen this road. Hopefully if GCU picks this spot it will design a three lane speedway, at least to silverbell. Hey look, MORE JOBS!!! But it may be unlikely to expand speedway, it will have to cut into private property and the train underpass would take some time to expand. If this spot is supposed to carry 6,000 students and 2,000 employees it will need a wider road.

[Patrick S]

Is it just the golf course that they are looking to use? This could work if Murrieta park is kept intact as a park. I know the big issue that people have is that fact that Speedway might be big enough to handle additional traffic. Grand Canyon university would do just fine in that region but perhaps additional lanes would benefit that portion of speedway (but of course, widened streets would benefit the majority of Tucson roads right).


I hope this comes to fruition.
I think they are going to keep Murrieta park intact. I posted an article on page 208 from the AZ Daily Star about this potential project. It said, in part, "Among the things the city is requesting are bike and pedestrian paths connecting to west-side parks, money for necessary infrastructure improvements at Murrieta Park and public access to the university's intramural sports fields."

[farmerk]

... Bisbee too.

I've only been to Bisbee one time and I enjoyed it. That's a hidden gem and it's the closest to a real western town (as in western movie stereotype) as I can imagine. My posse and I had some hometown brew in a historic saloon (real deal) per invitation from a biker (which I thought he was going to beat us up but instead invited us for a drink ... good guy) I wished Tucson would re-create a section of Bisbee someplace with western buildings side by side (not Old Tucson Studios).

EDIT: In addition to wishing a 'Bisbee district' in Tucson and since we're in the wishing mode, I wished for a bigger gathering place (plaza) such as these (warning: x-large photos) : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/San_Francisco_Ferry_Building_(cropped).jpg , http://www.stayinsf.com/cityhall.jpg and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Eiffel_Tower_Paris_01.JPG . Tucson needs to aim high not something mediocre. Could be a possibility since Tucson likes re-creating the past .

[farmerk]

... Grand Canyon university would do just fine in that region but perhaps additional lanes would benefit that portion of speedway (but of course, widened streets would benefit the majority of Tucson roads right).


I hope this comes to fruition.

Not only widened streets at Speedway but an extra lane for a light rail route.:tup:

[AustinBear]

I've only been to Bisbee one time and I enjoyed it. That's a hidden gem and it's the closest to a real western town (as in western movie stereotype) as I can imagine. My posse and I had some hometown brew in a historic saloon (real deal) per invitation from a biker (which I thought he was going to beat us up but instead invited us for a drink ... good guy) I wished Tucson would re-create a section of Bisbee someplace with western buildings side by side (not Old Tucson Studios).

EDIT: In addition to wishing a 'Bisbee district' in Tucson and since we're in the wishing mode, I wished for a bigger gathering place (plaza) such as these (warning: x-large photos) : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/San_Francisco_Ferry_Building_(cropped).jpg , http://www.stayinsf.com/cityhall.jpg and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Eiffel_Tower_Paris_01.JPG . Tucson needs to aim high not something mediocre. Could be a possibility since Tucson likes re-creating the past .

OK, Farmerk, I'm going to take your challenge and run with it. For right now, I'm not going to try and imagine the engineering of it, because my brain might explode and bleed, and no one wants to deal with that gooky mess. I've been fascinated by the innovative ways that Tucson Water has been using recharge basins and greywater recycling to assure that Tucson has a secure sustainable water supply.

Have you been to the Sweetwater Wetlands Facility, along Silverbell?

Wouldn't it be something to replicate that along a stretch of the Santa Cruz River, in the vicinity of A Mountain, and where the Mission Gardens are, and all of that associated west side development? Tempe has it's "town lake". Imagine what Tucson could do in a similar way,and all of the benefits that come with it.

[farmerk]

OK, Farmerk, I'm going to take your challenge and run with it. For right now, I'm not going to try and imagine the engineering of it, because my brain might explode and bleed, and no one wants to deal with that gooky mess. I've been fascinated by the innovative ways that Tucson Water has been using recharge basins and greywater recycling to assure that Tucson has a secure sustainable water supply.

Have you been to the Sweetwater Wetlands Facility, along Silverbell?

Wouldn't it be something to replicate that along a stretch of the Santa Cruz River, in the vicinity of A Mountain, and where the Mission Gardens are, and all of that associated west side development? Tempe has it's "town lake". Imagine what Tucson could do in a similar way,and all of the benefits that come with it.

Never been to Sweetwater Wetlands Facility. There's been a lot of proposals to build a 'town lake' along the stretch of the Santa Cruz River and unfortunately, nothing came to fruition. This was the latest proposition of a town lake, http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5978280&postcount=3688 .

Personally, I wouldn't mind a lake in the vicinity of A Mountain/Mission Gardens. Maybe, a section of the Santa Cruz River under the Luis Gutierrez Bridge. That might lure high end (taller) hotels besides that area .... instead of an eye sore made with dirt you have a lake. Probably, add a very large open spaced plaza besides the lake/hotel. At the other end of that large plaza will be an arena/convention center with a view of the Rainbow Bridge (folks, I know it's expensive ... Tucson aim high, dream big and tall).

Thanks for the good thought :tup:

EDIT: Got me going with this conversation .... Best and Worst Public Spaces (http://www.pps.org/reference/september2004bestworst/) . City Squares (http://www.touropia.com/city-squares-around-the-world/) .The closest large public space for Tucson is UofA's mall . Tucson should have one outside the UofA , IMHO.

[aznate27]

City goes all in on business incentives downtown (http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/city-goes-all-in-on-business-incentives-downtown/article_94c8882a-b8d0-11e2-802a-0019bb2963f4.html)

Inside Tucson Business
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2013 12:00 am | Updated: 8:38 am, Fri May 10, 2013.

By Patrick McNamara


The Tucson City Council voted Tuesday to move forward on an incentive deal that when finalized would waive the property taxes for a multi-million dollar downtown development.

The deal, a Government Property Lease Excise Tax Incentive (GPLET), would exempt the developer of the 196-unit downtown student housing development The Cadence from paying property taxes for eight years...



So after reading the above article today, I did a little more research on One East Broadway. I drive by it all the time and from what I see, it's not looking like the original rendering. I went to their Facebook page and this is the pic they have on there:


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/901432_139191466259823_1630027923_o.jpg

Um, yeah...much uglier and shorter than the original. I'm disappointed.:yuck:

[aznate27]

CVS is coming to Main Gate Square (http://azstarnet.com/business/local/cvs-is-coming-to-main-gate-square/article_424228fb-8997-5cb5-ac22-fd7a7eed7858.html)

12,000-square-foot drugstore expected to open in late summer

Arizona Daily Star
By Angela Pittenger

CVS Pharmacy will be the newest addition to more than 20 retailers and 30 restaurants at Main Gate Square near the University of Arizona.

Merchants on the square are excited about the addition, said Jane McCollum, general manager of Main Gate Square.

"Every day, people ask if there is a drugstore nearby," McCollum said. "It's a place people will go to every day - faculty, hotel guests, residents of the neighborhood ... and since it's on the streetcar route, people in other neighborhoods will come, too."....


DOWNTOWN GUIDE INSIDE

Cranes, cones, construction workers - downtown Tucson is coming back to life (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cranes-cones-construction-workers---downtown-tucson-is-coming/article_26d26d8b-1292-5c86-9ea8-34d58ab7d04a.html)

Tangle of construction heralds arrival of revitalization at last

Arizona Daily Star
May 12, 2013 12:00 am • Gabriela Rico Arizona Daily Star

Construction cranes swing overhead, police officers direct traffic and hundreds of construction workers hammer and drill away on multiple projects in downtown Tucson.

For some people, the flurry of construction is the happy culmination of a years-long effort to revitalize downtown.

For others, the snarled traffic, detours and closed streets are inconveniences that elicit nothing more than a string of expletives.

Today, the Star navigates the maze of activity to show what's going up, what's coming down and what's getting a makeover.

From new restaurants to apartments to office space - whether you love or hate the construction - there's no doubt that downtown Tucson is coming back to life.

[southtucsonboy77]

Hip little Tucson heats up

http://www.sfchronicle.com/travel/article/Hip-little-Tucson-heats-up-4484163.php

[farmerk]

Got this from AZ Star today, Google Map of Tucson Downtown Constructions (https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=201119128712252794897.0004dc0f68860a960769b&ie=UTF8&t=m&ll=32.222586,-110.968673&spn=0.006807,0.006641&z=17&source=embed)

[cdsuofa]

I really hope GCU decides to bring its campus here. I think thats the most central of all the probable options they had for locations the others were probably south (kolb/wilmont & I-10) or northwest. I really dont see why they would need to build another large campus in the Phoenix area instead of Tucson I think its better for everyone if they decide on Tucson. This city needs all the jobs it can get specifically high education required ones. I think that part of speedway would need work as well as the Silverbell to Mission transition(they both need work regardless of the outcome). Anyway fingers crossed!

[Ted Lyons]

I really hope GCU decides to bring its campus here. I think thats the most central of all the probable options they had for locations the others were probably south (kolb/wilmont & I-10) or northwest. I really dont see why they would need to build another large campus in the Phoenix area instead of Tucson I think its better for everyone if they decide on Tucson. This city needs all the jobs it can get specifically high education required ones. I think that part of speedway would need work as well as the Silverbell to Mission transition(they both need work regardless of the outcome). Anyway fingers crossed!

If this were to happen, I was thinking it would be cool to have the streetcar extended up Grande to the campus. The extension would be 1.6 miles, so it's relatively long, but it's a straight shot.

[Ritarancher]

City goes all in on business incentives downtown (http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/city-goes-all-in-on-business-incentives-downtown/article_94c8882a-b8d0-11e2-802a-0019bb2963f4.html)

Inside Tucson Business
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2013 12:00 am | Updated: 8:38 am, Fri May 10, 2013.

By Patrick McNamara


The Tucson City Council voted Tuesday to move forward on an incentive deal that when finalized would waive the property taxes for a multi-million dollar downtown development.

The deal, a Government Property Lease Excise Tax Incentive (GPLET), would exempt the developer of the 196-unit downtown student housing development The Cadence from paying property taxes for eight years...



So after reading the above article today, I did a little more research on One East Broadway. I drive by it all the time and from what I see, it's not looking like the original rendering. I went to their Facebook page and this is the pic they have on there:


Um, yeah...much uglier and shorter than the original. I'm disappointed.:yuck:

It's worse the the Cadence!!!

[southtucsonboy77]

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/207320771.html

Just in case anyone missed the segment on KGUN 9 regarding the Spanish Trail Motel mess off of I-10. At one point in time, Walmart was interested in this development, but South Tucson had "cultural differences" with Walmart...so Walmart built down the freeway.

[aznate27]

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/207320771.html

Just in case anyone missed the segment on KGUN 9 regarding the Spanish Trail Motel mess off of I-10. At one point in time, Walmart was interested in this development, but South Tucson had "cultural differences" with Walmart...so Walmart built down the freeway.

Can't the city do an immanent domain seizure of the property do to it's disrepair and just tear it down?? I don't understand why the owner doesn't just tear down all that is on his land and try to sell it to a developer? It's prime location for a new hotel right off the freeway and near downtown. He'd probably make more than he paid for it. He sounds like a lazy slum lord. Although it would also be cool to see it restored and turned into a retro boutique hotel for hipsters.