Winnipeg Jets

[esquire]

Another season starts today! With a reasonably successful pre-season, I think the mood has improved a bit since the sky-is-falling reaction to the Jets falling short in the Trotz sweepstakes. Bowness has been able to sweet talk the local fanbase and media, he won a few games, and everyone has settled down.

That said, there are plenty of tickets available for the home opener judging by Ticketmaster, so the fan outlook is probably more one of cautious optimism than heady exuberance. It'll be a tough battle against a NYR team that dismantled Minnesota last night, but maybe they'll be tired???

[thurmas]

I like bowness giving them an identity as a high tempo team rather than the blah non identity maurice had as this team doesn't have the personnel to be a physical tough team.

[bomberjet]

There has been comments about the team seeming lighter and looser mood from previous years.

[dmacc]

I have also been pleasantly surprised by Bownes. Time will tell if he is able to extract enough out of this team. Either way, I'm excited to get the season started.

[pegcityboy]

Good start to the season except for Bowness in Covid ! Liked 2 out of the 3 periods and Hellybucyk was positionly sound and played really well except the 2nd period puck gaffe . 55, 27, 81 is going to give lots of teams fits with their speed and creativity. Scheif looks energized and great workmanlike effort by the third line and Wheeler .

[Biff]

Undefeated in the last one games!

[esquire]

Undefeated in the last one games!

On pace for an 82 win season! :banana:

But seriously though, it's nice to see the Jets off to a good start. It looks like things have definitely changed since last season.

[rrskylar]

On pace for an 82 win season! :banana:

But seriously though, it's nice to see the Jets off to a good start. It looks like things have definitely changed since last season.

Stripping the C off a fading player on the downside of his career was a plus!

Finding equal value for the malcontent Dubois would be a plus!

[The Jabroni]

The new individual player goal songs are awesome this year. PLD has the best one by far. :D

[dennis]

What a fall! Going from undefeated to a 0.500 team in such a short span of time.

[Biff]

What is the Jets aversion to colour? They seem to think that the reverse retro means photo negative. To be honest, I have no idea what a reverse retro is supposed to be, but why just white, blue and grey? I find it very bland.

Likely just me.

https://cms.nhl.bamgrid.com/images/photos/336564244/2048x1152/cut.jpg
https://www.nhl.com/news/2022-adidas-nhl-reverse-retro-jerseys-reveal/c-336511528

[esquire]

There have been so many rounds of reverse retro, alternates, throwbacks, etc. that they're all just starting to look like rehashes of the same thing, over and over again, hoping that they can convince the fans to pony up another $300 for one.

That said, Minnesota and LA should 100% return to those reverse retro colours.

In other news, how about that OT vs Colorado last night? I have to admit that when I saw Lowry, Appleton and Pionk line up against McKinnon, Rantanen and Makar I thought "uh oh", but that worked out better than anything I could have imagined! :haha:

[pspeid]

There have been so many rounds of reverse retro, alternates, throwbacks, etc. that they're all just starting to look like rehashes of the same thing, over and over again, hoping that they can convince the fans to pony up another $300 for one.

That said, Minnesota and LA should 100% return to those reverse retro colours.

In other news, how about that OT vs Colorado last night? I have to admit that when I saw Lowry, Appleton and Pionk line up against McKinnon, Rantanen and Makar I thought "uh oh", but that worked out better than anything I could have imagined! :haha:

Love the retro Sharks/Seals, Chicago and St. Louis, though a lot of St. Louis has to do with the model wearing it. Rowr.

Great result against the Avs, but what's the deal with the second period so far this year?

[Biff]

So I wonder when the Jets brass will realize that not making any changes is resulting in no changes in the Jets game. They don’t look any different than last year.

I know they have a tough starting schedule but.

[thurmas]

So I wonder when the Jets brass will realize that not making any changes is resulting in no changes in the Jets game. They don’t look any different than last year.

I know they have a tough starting schedule but.

they have skill players but no grinders or heavy hitters

[Highwayman]

So I wonder when the Jets brass will realize that not making any changes is resulting in no changes in the Jets game. They don’t look any different than last year.

I know they have a tough starting schedule but.
Trade wouldn't have helped this team.

They beat the Ranger's. A top teir team.
They beat the Avs a top teir team.

As usual thou. They play lesser teams and they play down to them... exactly how they been since 2019.


I'll give them 20 games though. After that then time to blow up the team.

[thebasketballgeek]

I knew this from the very start. Sell everyone except KC, Ehlers, and Perfetti and tank for the generational talent.

[esquire]

Trade wouldn't have helped this team.

They beat the Ranger's. A top teir team.
They beat the Avs a top teir team.

As usual thou. They play lesser teams and they play down to them... exactly how they been since 2019.


I'll give them 20 games though. After that then time to blow up the team.

US Thanksgiving is on Nov. 24. We'll have a clear understanding of where things stand at that point.

Right now they are looking more or less like what they've been for the past couple of seasons... a bubble team that will probably miss the playoffs, or maybe at best they'll just squeak into the 8th seed before a quick first round exit. This is not a team built to go the distance.

[blueandgoldguy]

At least the Moose and ICE are great teams and will compete for their respective cups this season. Go out and support those teams! They could use it!

[JHikka]

At least the Moose and ICE are great teams and will compete for their respective cups this season. Go out and support those teams! They could use it!

I caught a period of a Moose game recently and the arena looked mostly empty. Wonder how much longer the team stays there if they can't really get crowds out...most of the purpose of having a farm team nearby is for convenience of calling players up and down but having them play in an empty building isn't ideal either.

[thurmas]

If the Ice can get a new 4500 seat arena built in South Winnipeg would probably be a much better venue not only for them but also the moose. However 3 teams of nhl ahl and whl in this market is just too much especially with justinflation only so much for the entertainment dollar to go round.

[bomberjet]

If the Ice can get a new 4500 seat arena built in South Winnipeg would probably be a much better venue not only for them but also the moose. However 3 teams of nhl ahl and whl in this market is just too much especially with justinflation only so much for the entertainment dollar to go round.

:rolleyes: Buzz words.

[esquire]

I caught a period of a Moose game recently and the arena looked mostly empty. Wonder how much longer the team stays there if they can't really get crowds out...most of the purpose of having a farm team nearby is for convenience of calling players up and down but having them play in an empty building isn't ideal either.

When the Moose came here, it was at the tail end of the period when the Jets were a tough ticket. So they drew fairly well, it was the place to go if you didn't feel like forking out for Jets tickets. I get the impression that as with the Jets, TNSE got a little lazy with the Moose, because their tickets were at some of the highest price points in the AHL but they were still drawing quite well.

Things have changed and you can now often buy Jets tickets for under face value on the secondary market. I think that has seriously cut into the Moose market. For example, the Jets and Blues are playing tonight... I can find secondary market tickets for CAD$33 a pop all in. This is basically the same price as a 200-level ticket for a Moose game. Yeah, the Jets tickets are nosebleeds, but there is no question that the entertainment value at the Jets game will be higher if for no other reason than because I'll know all of the players on the home team and a good chunk of the visitors.

The Moose have settled into a pattern where weekend games and special promo events often draw reasonably well by AHL standards, but standard weeknight games don't do well at all. That is not uncommon among minor league/junior teams playing in NHL cities.

For what it's worth, there are several AHL teams that draw worse than the Moose (https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=AHL1941&sid=2022). The SJ Barracuda in particular plays in front of a practically empty arena some nights. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be better off putting the team somewhere else, but Sharks ownership doesn't seem to mind. Maybe the Jets are the same way. From what I've seen with the new AHL team in Calgary, I get the impression that the Flames are not worried about attendance at all from the weak marketing effort they've put into the Wranglers.

I make it to maybe a couple of Moose games a season. They're OK, but I find them fairly pricy for what you get. If TNSE wanted to bump up the attendance numbers in a hurry I'd say the easiest way to do that would be to cut the ticket prices in half to better reflect their entertainment value. But I suspect that won't happen... probably a lot more money to be made by selling at the current high prices, and getting Jets sponsors to buy Moose ticket packages that go unused for the most part, even if that means fewer people in the stands. The bottom line, I suppose, is that there isn't a straight-line correlation between attendance and profitability... attendance probably matters less to the TNSE bean-counters and executives than we might think.

[JHikka]

When the Moose came here, it was at the tail end of the period when the Jets were a tough ticket. So they drew fairly well, it was the place to go if you didn't feel like forking out for Jets tickets. I get the impression that as with the Jets, TNSE got a little lazy with the Moose, because their tickets were at some of the highest price points in the AHL but they were still drawing quite well.
I went to a Marlies game last week and the tickets were given away for free online. Ended up checking and they retailed for $65/ea.

Things have changed and you can now often buy Jets tickets for under face value on the secondary market. I think that has seriously cut into the Moose market. For example, the Jets and Blues are playing tonight... I can find secondary market tickets for CAD$33 a pop all in. This is basically the same price as a 200-level ticket for a Moose game. Yeah, the Jets tickets are nosebleeds, but there is no question that the entertainment value at the Jets game will be higher if for no other reason than because I'll know all of the players on the home team and a good chunk of the visitors.
Sounds a lot like what Senators tickets are like in Ottawa, depending on the opponent. Able to go to many Senators games with $20 (or less) tickets in the nosebleeds.

For what it's worth, there are several AHL teams that draw worse than the Moose (https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=AHL1941&sid=2022). The SJ Barracuda in particular plays in front of a practically empty arena some nights. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be better off putting the team somewhere else, but Sharks ownership doesn't seem to mind. Maybe the Jets are the same way. From what I've seen with the new AHL team in Calgary, I get the impression that the Flames are not worried about attendance at all from the weak marketing effort they've put into the Wranglers.

I make it to maybe a couple of Moose games a season. They're OK, but I find them fairly pricy for what you get. If TNSE wanted to bump up the attendance numbers in a hurry I'd say the easiest way to do that would be to cut the ticket prices in half to better reflect their entertainment value. But I suspect that won't happen... probably a lot more money to be made by selling at the current high prices, and getting Jets sponsors to buy Moose ticket packages that go unused for the most part, even if that means fewer people in the stands. The bottom line, I suppose, is that there isn't a straight-line correlation between attendance and profitability... attendance probably matters less to the TNSE bean-counters and executives than we might think.

I think it's interesting to see how the AHL has transitioned in the past 30 years. I grew up in NB and had the Saint John Flames as the hometown team and that was definitely viewed as professional level and high-level hockey. They were in a lot of markets where they were top-billing and the big show in town.

Fast-forward to today and it seems like NHL-owned teams are content to play as literal farm teams in the same-or-near markets for the sake of convenience rather than being separate entities. Teams like Hershey and Rochester still exist but the number of legacy, independent AHL teams are few and far between. Likewise, the teams have gone from being older and tougher to being younger and more skilled, looking more like U25 teams some nights as opposed to fully professional sides.

I guess in the Jets' case there really isn't anywhere convenient to slot them that is also nearby. I know Thunder Bay always gets paraded around as a suggestion but that feels like a pipedream more than anything else. I think an AHL team in Saskatchewan would be intriguing but don't really have a gauge on how well one would do vis-a-vis the current WHL teams in their markets.

It's an aside but i'm always impressed how well Chicago and Rockford do considering they're both in Blackhawks territory. Impressive stuff in that region.

[esquire]

I think it's interesting to see how the AHL has transitioned in the past 30 years. I grew up in NB and had the Saint John Flames as the hometown team and that was definitely viewed as professional level and high-level hockey. They were in a lot of markets where they were top-billing and the big show in town.

Fast-forward to today and it seems like NHL-owned teams are content to play as literal farm teams in the same-or-near markets for the sake of convenience rather than being separate entities. Teams like Hershey and Rochester still exist but the number of legacy, independent AHL teams are few and far between. Likewise, the teams have gone from being older and tougher to being younger and more skilled, looking more like U25 teams some nights as opposed to fully professional sides.

I guess in the Jets' case there really isn't anywhere convenient to slot them that is also nearby. I know Thunder Bay always gets paraded around as a suggestion but that feels like a pipedream more than anything else. I think an AHL team in Saskatchewan would be intriguing but don't really have a gauge on how well one would do vis-a-vis the current WHL teams in their markets.

It's an aside but i'm always impressed how well Chicago and Rockford do considering they're both in Blackhawks territory. Impressive stuff in that region.

In some respects I think the NHL is following the NBA's lead... it's not hard to imagine something with the cachet of the LA Lakers doing well as a standalone G-league team in another city. Instead they have them playing right in the LA metro, in a glorified high school gym:

https://images.gametime.co/sport/other/gametime-images/othersblakers/hero@4x/south-bay-lakers.jpg?auto=webp&format=pjpg&quality=50%2C35&disable=upscale&dpr=2&fit=crop&width=440&height=240
source:gametime.co

I guess someone has done the math and has determined that there is more value in keeping the team closer to home and drawing less than in putting the club somewhere else. Let's not forget that the Moose are way cheaper to operate when they play in Winnipeg... there is no extra cost for the arena since they already own it. Same with the training facility. TNSE probably runs the business ops with their existing Jets staff. You move to Thunder Bay and suddenly you need to pay for a lot of those things.

There were rumors about a possible AHL franchise in Sask but that is tough, the WHL clubs are really embedded in there. It would be hard to pull it off without harming real community institutions like the Pats or the Blades.

TNSE seems reasonably committed to keeping the Moose in Winnipeg and I suspect what they'll do is what they're doing with the Jets... marketing the team a little more aggressively, discounting tickets a bit and doing what they have to do to get a little more of the public's attention. But at the end of the day I think they are willing to accept playing some games in front of 1,200 fans.

Personally, while I readily admit that the Moose play a very high level of hockey, I do find their games a bit on the dull side. I am willing to go once in a while if I get a discount, but I won't pay full price. I know that they do have a few hardcore fans, but I don't know anyone who attends more than a couple of games a year... in my cohort, people mainly go when their kids' hockey teams have an outing there.

[CoryB]

For any of the AHL teams co-locating with their NHL parent and having the same owners it comes down to the overall revenue and costs of the combined operations.

You may take a hit on revenue from attendance, merch, etc but considering the AHL team uses otherwise dead hours at the NHL training facility (IcePlex) and has games on dark nights in the main arena those incremental costs are normally less than standing up a second spectator facility in another city even if you assume it also doubles as the training facility for the AHL team. And that is without the added travel costs of moving players between the clubs.

Where the real risk is at currently for the Jets/Moose is as the Jets attendance starts to drop it is going to start tanking the other revenue streams too.

In terms of alternate Moose locations, I think Faro may have the right mix of population size and proximity. The challenge is being halfway between the Jets and the Wild they may lean more to the wild side of things.

[esquire]

^ Fargo seems like the kind of place where the AHL could work, but again, they are a junior hockey town with a well-established USHL team. For all we know, they may have a monopoly on the Scheels Arena.

The tricky thing with this part of the world is that there aren't many sizable population centres that aren't spoken for by some longstanding high profile hockey team, whether it's major junior, college or minor pro. In some ways Thunder Bay is the exception (too far west for the OHL, too far east for the WHL), but they don't have a modern rink and seemingly no path to getting one built.

[rrskylar]

^ Fargo seems like the kind of place where the AHL could work, but again, they are a junior hockey town with a well-established USHL team. For all we know, they may have a monopoly on the Scheels Arena.

The tricky thing with this part of the world is that there aren't many sizable population centres that aren't spoken for by some longstanding high profile hockey team, whether it's major junior, college or minor pro. In some ways Thunder Bay is the exception (too far west for the OHL, too far east for the WHL), but they don't have a modern rink and seemingly no path to getting one built.

Speaking of Thunder Bay, whatever happened to the guy from there who used to post in the Winnipeg threads for years and years!?

[bomberjet]

Vid.

Last activity oct. 31, 2021.

[Gm0ney]

COVID really seemed to knock some wind out of arena attendance. The Moose were averaging around 5000 per game pre-pandemic - and those were some brutal teams. Of course, from the opening of the MTS Centre to the return of the Jets, they were averaging over 8000 per game, but 5000 was still pretty good after the Moose 2.0 came back.

They've got a really good team this year with some exciting young players like Lambert, Lucius and Heinola. Just seems to be little appetite for it. We'll see how it goes once they start playing some weekend home games...

[trueviking]

Covid has killed everything that involves leaving your house....movies, restaurants, shopping, arts, music, recreational sports, spectator sports...anything work related...it's all hurting....my beer league slow pitch and hockey leagues are both down by half in number of teams.

we all got deeply entrenched on our living room couches during covid and most people appear content to stay there.

[trueviking]

If the Ice can get a new 4500 seat arena built in South Winnipeg would probably be a much better venue not only for them but also the moose. However 3 teams of nhl ahl and whl in this market is just too much especially with justinflation only so much for the entertainment dollar to go round.

you didn't really say justinflation did you?

As unlikely as it is that anyone is going to build a second arena in Winnipeg, even if by some miracle that did happen, the Moose are not moving to any venue where True North will pay rent to another owner....

[esquire]

Covid has killed everything that involves leaving your house....movies, restaurants, shopping, arts, music, recreational sports, spectator sports...anything work related...it's all hurting....my beer league slow pitch and hockey leagues are both down by half in number of teams.

we all got deeply entrenched on our living room couches during covid and most people appear content to stay there.

The church I attend is a small, old institution in a central neighbourhood, it doesn't cost much to run, and it was basically break even before covid. But enough of the congregation has decided to stay home, watch livestream services and not throw a few bucks into the collection plate to the point where the church is now running at a deficit. The church can withstand a few years of this, but at some point there will be a real crunch. And some hard decisions will have to be made. It is possible that in the not too distant future, the church could be shuttered.

This is one example, but I think a lot of local legacy community institutions are going to be in a similar position as a result of the behaviour vike describes. Maybe no single community centre, legion hall, church, slo-pitch league, minor-pro hockey team or whatever is that important and vital on its own, but once you start losing many of them, it will definitely cause the urban fabric to start fraying.

[Biff]

Covid has killed everything that involves leaving your house....movies, restaurants, shopping, arts, music, recreational sports, spectator sports...anything work related...it's all hurting....my beer league slow pitch and hockey leagues are both down by half in number of teams.

we all got deeply entrenched on our living room couches during covid and most people appear content to stay there.

I have to say my son plays AA hockey and most of his games are full of fans....same goes with AAA. The AAA tryouts were standing room only at Gateway. In my eyes it seems like the pent up factor of having to stay home for 2 years has bolstered the attendance at these events.

[wags_in_the_peg]

I have to say my son plays AA hockey and most of his games are full of fans....same goes with AAA. The AAA tryouts were standing room only at Gateway. In my eyes it seems like the pent up factor of having to stay home for 2 years has bolstered the attendance at these events.

that's mostly parents & grandparents which is fantastic to see! my son team is also seeing decent attendance, nice to have no capacity restrictions

one of my greatest memories of crowds was my kid 2019 Peewee AA city finals @ Gateway, game 5 on a Friday night. never seen a rink so packed. teenagers surrounded the entire glass and parents, grandparents and friends packed the stands. unreal environment for 12 yr olds.

and Yes his team did win (back to back city champs baby)!

[JHikka]

COVID really seemed to knock some wind out of arena attendance. The Moose were averaging around 5000 per game pre-pandemic - and those were some brutal teams. Of course, from the opening of the MTS Centre to the return of the Jets, they were averaging over 8000 per game, but 5000 was still pretty good after the Moose 2.0 came back.

I was doing some analysis and found that the Goldeyes were in a similar situation. I cross-referenced with the Vancouver Canadians and found that their crowds have been steadily increasing over the past decade whilst the Goldeyes have declined, essentially swapping places crowd-size wise.

Anything local to cause this or is this another case of the Jets arriving and sucking the air out of potential sales?

[thurmas]

Locally I have noticed baseball participation plummet and cricket participation skyrocket in the last 5 years locally.

[esquire]

I was doing some analysis and found that the Goldeyes were in a similar situation. I cross-referenced with the Vancouver Canadians and found that their crowds have been steadily increasing over the past decade whilst the Goldeyes have declined, essentially swapping places crowd-size wise.

Anything local to cause this or is this another case of the Jets arriving and sucking the air out of potential sales?

I have an acquaintance who works for the Goldeyes. I don't press him for too many details but he did divulge that the return of the Jets hurt them pretty badly. A lot of their season ticket and corporate sponsorship accounts disappeared.

That's probably the biggest factor, but there are others that I can think of:

-more crowded market generally, when the Goldeyes came on the scene all there was at the time were the Jets (in a much less expensive NHL), the Bombers and a minor league basketball team on its deathbed. Today there is the Jets (who soak up a lot more money than they did in the 90s) and Bombers, but also the Moose, the ICE and Valour FC. Televised sports are probably a bigger source of competition too.

-baseball was a huge novelty when it came back after a long absence, and that novelty has worn off over time, same with the new stadium which had to be a factor in the days when the Goldeyes were drawing well. It was the first new pro sports facility built in Winnipeg in almost 50 years so it was a big part of the draw.

-I think baseball has faded a bit in popularity generally, it was huge with boomers and while it's still popular, it's not what it once was... young people are more likely to be into basketball or soccer now. Obviously it ebbs and flows, when there is something exciting in MLB it can rev up the local fanbase and whet their appetite, but that is more on a short-term basis.

-Goldeyes tickets are undeniably expensive for what it is... it's low level minor league baseball, but gameday tickets are roughly $25 a pop, plus the usual fees, etc. Having to spend over $100 just to get my family in the door is not an appealing prospect. I'm sure that keeps a lot of people away, or at least keeps them from coming on a regular basis.

-Not everyone will agree, but I find the ownership factor a huge turnoff and I have a hard time getting behind something owned by Sam Katz that is a major source of his wealth.

That said, I don't think the Goldeyes are under any threat whatsoever, it's a low overhead, high profit sports enterprise. So even if they aren't absolutely raking it in the way they were when Shaw Park first opened and for the decade or so after that, I'm sure it's still a highly profitable business. The team pays peanuts and puts the players up with billets while they make bank off expensive tickets and the food/bev sales that are a huge part of Goldeyes games for many.

[Biff]

that's mostly parents & grandparents which is fantastic to see! my son team is also seeing decent attendance, nice to have no capacity restrictions

one of my greatest memories of crowds was my kid 2019 Peewee AA city finals @ Gateway, game 5 on a Friday night. never seen a rink so packed. teenagers surrounded the entire glass and parents, grandparents and friends packed the stands. unreal environment for 12 yr olds.

and Yes his team did win (back to back city champs baby)!

Sounds like we might have crossed paths. My son is now U18 as a 16 year old.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Sounds like we might have crossed paths. My son is now U18 as a 16 year old.

:tup:

Wild or Thrashers? My kid is a Bruins, looking at my name you can probably figure out who he is.

[Biff]

:tup:

Wild or Thrashers? My kid is a Bruins, looking at my name you can probably figure out who he is.

He is only AA. Our area is Marauders/Thrashers.

[JHikka]

I have an acquaintance who works for the Goldeyes. I don't press him for too many details but he did divulge that the return of the Jets hurt them pretty badly. A lot of their season ticket and corporate sponsorship accounts disappeared.

That's probably the biggest factor, but there are others that I can think of:


Thanks for this, makes sense overall. Curious to see how the Van Canadians can fare in a crowded market but i'm chalking that up to baseball being far more popular there than in Winnipeg.

[blueandgoldguy]

Thanks for this, makes sense overall. Curious to see how the Van Canadians can fare in a crowded market but i'm chalking that up to baseball being far more popular there than in Winnipeg.

That and Vancouver actually has an affiliation with an MLB team even though it is A level ball. People actually get to watch future major leaguers some of who will be stars and superstars. Winnipeg is in an independent league with a bunch of never-weres and washed-up former prospects

The quality of the league has also declined from two and a half decades ago when the team first arrived. Back then, it was sandwiched between single A and double A ball, but now it is barely single A in terms of quality. One of the factors in the decline is the rise of other independent leagues leading to increased competition for players.

I love if Winnipeg could have affiliated ball but given the team's location and lack of other affiliated cities nearby that is an impossible dream.

[esquire]

That and Vancouver actually has an affiliation with an MLB team even though it is A level ball. People actually get to watch future major leaguers some of who will be stars and superstars. Winnipeg is in an independent league with a bunch of never-weres and washed-up former prospects

The quality of the league has also declined from two and a half decades ago when the team first arrived. Back then, it was sandwiched between single A and double A ball, but now it is barely single A in terms of quality. One of the factors in the decline is the rise of other independent leagues leading to increased competition for players.

I love if Winnipeg could have affiliated ball but given the team's location and lack of other affiliated cities nearby that is an impossible dream.

I agree with this take. BC is definitely baseball country, the love of the game runs deeper there for sure. And the fact that it is affiliated ball probably gives the Canadians more appeal.

When the Goldeyes started up, the Northern League that they played in was one of only a couple independent leagues, so it probably wasn't too hard to find some quality players who weren't in the MLB system. There were some ex-major leaguers that even a guy like me who isn't a real baseball fan recognized. Not anymore, it's a pretty anonymous bunch now.

Between climate and location (i.e. distance from other teams), it's unlikely that we'll ever get full season AAA or AA baseball. AAA would probably require a totally new or significantly improved stadium, and that seems unlikely.

[blueandgoldguy]

I agree with this take. BC is definitely baseball country, the love of the game runs deeper there for sure. And the fact that it is affiliated ball probably gives the Canadians more appeal.

When the Goldeyes started up, the Northern League that they played in was one of only a couple independent leagues, so it probably wasn't too hard to find some quality players who weren't in the MLB system. There were some ex-major leaguers that even a guy like me who isn't a real baseball fan recognized. Not anymore, it's a pretty anonymous bunch now.

Between climate and location (i.e. distance from other teams), it's unlikely that we'll ever get full season AAA or AA baseball. AAA would probably require a totally new or significantly improved stadium, and that seems unlikely.

Heck I would take single A ball with its shorter season. But once again, Winnipeg's isolation from other teams would prevent that from happening.

[Biff]

I think I understand the Jets new game plan this year. Let the other team tire themselves out and hope Helle can stop them all.

4 min left in the second against Vegas an the shots are 31-7 for Vegas.

…hard to watch

[drew]

It almost worked....

They showed a stat during the game, and when Helle faces 40+ shots, he is almost unbeatable.

[esquire]

The rope-a-dope strategy applied to hockey? ;)

I know it's early, but tied for first in the division is pretty good... the Jets are exceeding expectations.

[optimusREIM]

The rope-a-dope strategy applied to hockey? ;)

I know it's early, but tied for first in the division is pretty good... the Jets are exceeding expectations.

Yeah, I think obviously the big concern is that the jets did not look awake for most of last night, except helly. I'd hate to know what the analyticals look like :haha:

[esquire]

Yeah, I think obviously the big concern is that the jets did not look awake for most of last night, except helly. I'd hate to know what the analyticals look like :haha:

Helle has been carrying the team for a while, but it looks like the Jets are going to push that strategy to the absolute limit this season!

[thurmas]

Helle has been carrying the team for a while, but it looks like the Jets are going to push that strategy to the absolute limit this season!

Might as well as we don't have a physical team to compete just skilled players we are kinda like the Habs now who always relied on Roy Theodore and Price to bail them out.

[bomberjet]

Hellebuyck's been carrying the team for like 5 years now. Imagine if the Jets still had a mediocre goalie?

[VANRIDERFAN]

This NHL season looks pretty good to me so far. The Jets are exceeding expectations and Leafs Nation is losing its mind. Doubt if this will last the entire year though but I'll enjoy the ride as long as it lasts.

[wags_in_the_peg]

5 of a possible 6 points on road trip, who cares what any other stat says!!!

[pacman]

If someone told me the Jets would miraculously pull a point from Vegas coming off a free Saturday Night in Vegas on Halloween weekend right after they played back to back road games I would say yes please! That being said can't help but feel disappointed that they were so bad for 90% of the game and partially wasted Helle's unbelievable performance, 1st 2nd and 3rd star for that guy.

[bomberjet]

Although Eichel's OT goal was a great effort by him.

All 3 Jets were coasting, reaching with the poke check. That's a common theme with Fefe and Connor. They're bad defensively, as we know. 44 seemed to back off for some reason there too.

[BlackDog204]

Hellebuyck's been carrying the team for like 5 years now. Imagine if the Jets still had a mediocre goalie?

Imagine if the team still had a starter like hellebuyck? We would be in the Bedard sweepstakes, which is not a bad thing this year.

[pspeid]

So, after 10 games the Jets are 6-3-1 and second in the Central Division.

From what I've seen the team is definitely still a work in progress, but it's encouraging so far.

I also wonder if we'll ever see drone footage of the city that isn't several years old. Seriously, there are drones up there all the time. I'm a little tired of seeing that "Artis" sign.

[pspeid]

Hokey Smoke Bullwinkle! First in the Central after 12 games. Heck after any number of games. I really didn't see that coming.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/winnipeg-jets-dallas-stars-recap-nov-8-1.6645069

[esquire]

Best start through 12 games in Jets 2.0 history. Which is saying something considering what a unit that 2017-18 team was.

I have to admit this team is blowing my expectations out of the water, at least so far!

[bomberjet]

Change in coaching seems to be helping. Change in team philosophy, same thing. They have a team charter that everyone signed onto. Holding people accountable. Hellebuyck got back to his roots, in goaltending style apparently, over the summer and isn't letting in those softies like he was last year. I like.

I am pleasantly surprised and happy.

[Biff]

I think I understand the Jets new game plan this year. Let the other team tire themselves out and hope Helle can stop them all.

4 min left in the second against Vegas an the shots are 31-7 for Vegas.

…hard to watch

Things really started to change with Bones back behind the bench. They have been consistently out-shooting teams and playing much better defensively with really good defensive zone exits.
Considering Connor and Ehlers haven't been scoring at all (I know Ehlers is hurt)....wait till they add some goals.

[wags_in_the_peg]

#1 in lowest GA/GP in the NHL today!!! much credit to Helly but new defensive structure helps too!

[PaulR]

Jets over Stars 5-1.

We are 6-0-1 in the last 7 games.

Currently 1st in the Central Division.

Life is mostly good :cool:

[BlackDog204]

Bowness has really taken this team in a new and positive direction. One can only wonder what would have happened if he was behind the bench for the 2017-18 or 2018-19 seasons, when the Jets were stacked. We may have won the cup, considering we were out-coached in the Vegas series.

[thurmas]

Bowness has really taken this team in a new and positive direction. One can only wonder what would have happened if he was behind the bench for the 2017-18 or 2018-19 seasons, when the Jets were stacked. We may have won the cup, considering we were out-coached in the Vegas series.

Still too early won't judge team until after 20 games

[BlackDog204]

Still too early won't judge team until after 20 games

After 20 games, they will have a record of 13-5-2. Book it.

[pspeid]

So as of this date the Jets are 12-6-1 and second in the central division.

I probably shouldn't nit-pick, but the Jets seems to be falling into their old habits of collapsing late in games. Won last night in overtime, but honestly, this has been going on for years.

Am I just getting paranoid? Does this happen to other teams as much as it seems to happen to the Jets?

[The Jabroni]

So as of this date the Jets are 12-6-1 and second in the central division.

I probably shouldn't nit-pick, but the Jets seems to be falling into their old habits of collapsing late in games. Won last night in overtime, but honestly, this has been going on for years.

Am I just getting paranoid? Does this happen to other teams as much as it seems to happen to the Jets?

If we are going to talk about last night's game alone, there are some few choice words on how the refs and the league handled it, but in the context of what you're asking, it's a bit of a habit lately.

The game with Carolina earlier this week is a prime example. Up 3-0, and play a solid 55 minutes of hockey, only to blow that all up in the last 5 minutes after Carolina pulls their goalie, and then we win it in OT.

The Minnesota game... well that explains itself.

Last night's game was a close game, but it's been handled by a couple of noob refs, and it was fully shown after Hellebuyck's helmet was off. That game should not have gone to overtime.

I'm not gonna deep dive into the conversation because I've read and listened to so many talking points on other platforms, but ultimately, they missed the fact that the play should have been whistled down as soon as that helmet was off.

Similar situation happened to Dallas in 2019, and another similar situation happed to New Jersey earlier this week.

Going back to your question and observation, this needs to be worked on. If we are on a penalty kill, or on a 6-on-5 situation, our defence and forwards need to step up. We've been alright creating breakaway plays and actually succeeding, but it should not be the only thing either in those situations.

[kylbaz]

If we are going to talk about last night's game alone, there are some few choice words on how the refs and the league handled it, but in the context of what you're asking, it's a bit of a habit lately.

The game with Carolina earlier this week is a prime example. Up 3-0, and play a solid 55 minutes of hockey, only to blow that all up in the last 5 minutes after Carolina pulls their goalie, and then we win it in OT.

The Minnesota game... well that explains itself.

Last night's game was a close game, but it's been handled by a couple of noob refs, and it was fully shown after Hellebuyck's helmet was off. That game should not have gone to overtime.

I'm not gonna deep dive into the conversation because I've read and listened to so many talking points on other platforms, but ultimately, they missed the fact that the play should have been whistled down as soon as that helmet was off.

Similar situation happened to Dallas in 2019, and another similar situation happed to New Jersey earlier this week.

Going back to your question and observation, this needs to be worked on. If we are on a penalty kill, or on a 6-on-5 situation, our defence and forwards need to step up. We've been alright creating breakaway plays and actually succeeding, but it should not be the only thing either in those situations.
The only thing I can say there is that the refs did not see the helmet come off, which is almost impossible. But that has to be the only answer, as silly as it would be.

[thurmas]

After 20 games, they will have a record of 13-5-2. Book it.

13-6-1 so far so good. I am cautiously optimistic at the quarter mark of the season.

[esquire]

They're certainly exceeding my expectations for them at the start of the season.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Great to see scoring from 3 and 4 lines. And guys who started season w Moose making an impact. Go Jets Go

[BlackDog204]

After 20 games, they will have a record of 13-5-2. Book it.

I was off by one point (13-6-1)

[BlackDog204]

13-6-1 so far so good. I am cautiously optimistic at the quarter mark of the season.

Hellebuyck has been awesome. He is once again, a frontrunner for the Vezina Trophy.

Morrissey is having a career year, with 23 points in 20 games (he previous best was 37 points in 79 games).

After a slow start, Kyle Connor has been great in November, with 16 points in 11 games.

PLD is also having a productive November with 13 points in 11 games.

Once Ehlers returns, the Jets should be in great shape, barring any injuries.

[thebasketballgeek]

Well I was completely wrong about the Jets this year and I couldn’t be happier.

5-0 blowout against the Avs, Wheeler hat trick, Hellebuyck 40 save shutout, Perfetti continuing his stellar rookie season, and JMo norris campaign running strong this has to be our best win this season. It’s early but Bones is looking like a COTY candidate. Looking at Florida right now I didn’t realize just how badly PMo was holding us back.

Btw we’re only 1 point behind Dallas with 2 games in hand which is insane entering December.

Is it too early to be looking into deadline acquisitions?

[Sheepish]

Pretty sure EVERYONE was wrong on this (except Chevy maybe!). It will be interesting to see what games look like when we play Boston and NJ.
Biggest deadline acquisition will be a Dane by the name of Nicolaj Ehlers. He should be back just in time for a serious playoff run. Otherwise maybe Stasny will be available! It is interesting seeing how Florida is under-performing - a theme we have been all too familiar with.

[harls]

I think I will burn my Sens hat and get a Jets one.

[bomberjet]

Amazing what a coach will do.

And on the flip side, look at Florida haha There was an article recently about how Florida has no identity. Are they skilled, grit, defensive? Nobody knows. Familiar theme.

[esquire]

It's starting to feel like 2018 again, watching that Scheif and Wheeler magic last night. Impressive that Perfetti fits in so seamlessly with two seasoned vets like them. Then there's Hellebuyck. And what a performance by Morrissey.

[optimusREIM]

This year has been fun for sure. Can't wait to see how we stack up against the big guns in the east too!

[bomberjet]

Once the line-up gets solidified after the injuries, should set-up nicely for a playoff run. Not sure we're on par with the 17-18 squad, we'll see. Sure do miss Buff back in his hey day.

[thurmas]

Who was this Trotz fellow everyone was clamoring for? Bowness seems like the perfect fit for this team a great teacher and a very good human being players want to play for.

[drew]

Once the line-up gets solidified after the injuries, should set-up nicely for a playoff run. Not sure we're on par with the 17-18 squad, we'll see. Sure do miss Buff back in his hey day.

I miss Buff - my favorite 2.0 Jet. He was such a unique talent - definitely an X-factor player on the ice.

[harls]

I miss Buff - my favorite 2.0 Jet. He was such a unique talent - definitely an X-factor player on the ice.

He is the most charismatic guy in Jets history, IMO.

HMjb5CTWzPw

[GreyGarden]

I saw lots of chatter last night around attendance. The arena felt very empty and quiet for a Friday night. I must’ve missed it when it was published at the start of November but saw it going around yesterday:

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/2022/11/04/people-still-arent-coming

I’m starting to get concerned for the Jets and the City. This seems like it may be a more deep-seated problem with the market rather than post-COVID anxieties. Also, I keep seeing people whine about “game day experience”. Does anyone know what that means? I’ve been to games in a few Canadian cities and it all feels pretty similar. Is it just Winnipeg speak for “give me free stuff”? Coupled with the general vibe of the city and the next to no development that we’re seeing, I’m getting worried that the City is in for some really tough times.

[esquire]

I saw lots of chatter last night around attendance. The arena felt very empty and quiet for a Friday night. I must’ve missed it when it was published at the start of November but saw it going around yesterday:

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/2022/11/04/people-still-arent-coming

I’m starting to get concerned for the Jets and the City. This seems like it may be a more deep-seated problem with the market rather than post-COVID anxieties. Also, I keep seeing people whine about “game day experience”. Does anyone know what that means? I’ve been to games in a few Canadian cities and it all feels pretty similar. Is it just Winnipeg speak for “give me free stuff”? Coupled with the general vibe of the city and the next to no development that we’re seeing, I’m getting worried that the City is in for some really tough times.

I noticed that too. The funny thing is that Jets tickets are by far cheaper than ever, I'm fairly certain that TNSE is consistently dumping upper deck seats on the resale market as low as $25 a pop, all in. That's like the price of a Goldeyes ticket. They run other promos too, like the $60 Jets/Moose/skills competition combo, or the Tuesday cheap ticket + beer special. I never take advantage of them myself though, between the WHL games I go to plus my kids' games and activities, I just don't have the time for it. I do have tickets for some Jets games coming up after Christmas, though.

I honestly wonder if TNSE was a little too greedy in the early years with the $90 nosebleed seats and all that. It got people used to the idea of simply watching on TV and not going to the arena. When I was a kid, the old Jets games were a little pricy but they were still within the grasp of even a working class family like the one I grew up in. Now it seems firmly geared towards the high end expense account crowd, the kinds of people who own businesses and can write off the costs as an entertainment expense, etc. And the problem is that Winnipeg doesn't have a ton of people like that relative to other NHL cities.

Personally the threat of "buy tickets or we move the team" doesn't hold any water at all with me, I lived through the Jets leaving once and I can live through it again. It doesn't matter at all. I am more than happy with WHL hockey. I don't need to spend $300+ to have a good time at a hockey game.

[EdwardTH]

Personally the threat of "buy tickets or we move the team" doesn't hold any water at all with me, I lived through the Jets leaving once and I can live through it again. It doesn't matter at all. I am more than happy with WHL hockey. I don't need to spend $300+ to have a good time at a hockey game.

Yeah why would you wanna watch the highest-calibre league in the entire world when you can watch a bunch of high-school kids, most of whom will never play a pro game in their life, essentially a bunch of amateur 16 year-olds, instead?

The fact that even the people with money in Winnipeg think this way is why our city stays 3rd-rate. "Why would I want to see the best in the world when I can save a buck watching amateur kids playing in a glorified community centre instead and then have a shorter drive back to my mcmansion?"

[esquire]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxP9zL8Jeu79GlIOx1Nr9tdQwxbK3diSY2BQ&usqp=CAU

[pegcityboy]

Season ticket holder 1.0 and 2.0 here . I’m not an expect but one of the biggest problems i see right now is some of my friends who love hockey but are casual fans and go to 6-10 games a year , they sometimes wait till game day or day before to make decision on going , we sit in P3s and the wanted to get seats by us , seats were available but ticketmaster price was $247 a SEAT ! Our seats aren’t cheap but work out to $132 a seat ( season ticket price ) so for casual fan paying more than $100-$150 more per seat is ridiculous, some games like Montreal and Toronto have been over $400 a ticket from ticketmaster which is just ridiculous to pay for a hockey game IMO .

[optimusREIM]

Okay so what I’m hearing is Winnipeg will never be ready for prime time again, because that’s the cost of doing business. It would be embarrassing if we lost our team again because of peoples shitty attitudes.

[thebasketballgeek]

There’s a lot more question marks in the NHL before we harp on Winnipeg for its subpar attendance.

Arizona is a disaster, Buffalo has sucked for awhile, Ottawa has had dwindling fan support ever since their ECF appearance, Columbus is a dumpster fire, and funny thing is even New Jersey (the 19-4 team) has a lower average attendance then us.

That’s not even considering tickets are dirt cheap in a lot of American markets. If they had Jets prices they would likely be at 50% capacity.

Enough with the doomerism. The Jets are a good team, Chipman & Thompson have not even hinted towards those talks, and they play in the middle of the city. Let’s not act like half the cities license plates don’t have a Jets logo on it, or ignore the vast amount of Jets clothing you will see in public literally anywhere in the city. It’s our cities identity and is the best shot we have at garnering anything worthy of international attention. Just look at the relevance of Kansas City when they got Mahomes, or Edmonton when they got McDavid. Not saying we have a Mahomes or McDavid like player, but a successful franchise in a world class league sometimes can provide the moral boost necessary for legitimate growth and progress.

The reality is times are tough right now for Canadians in general. A lot of people are struggling to make ends meet they definitely aren’t considering dropping $250 for entertainment purposes. That’s enough for a week of groceries at most with how absurd food prices have climbed up recently. Winnipeggers are a resilient bunch I’m sure the tides will turn and hopefully when the Jets are in the playoffs and the whiteout returns we won’t be having these talks again for a while.

Although, maybe they could consider trying to up their game with promotional deals for idk university students, Indigenous people, and families for start. I bet 50% off drinks on certain nights would get butts in seats as well.

[thurmas]

I always get lambasted for it on here but a lot of suburbanites do not want to go back downtown especially since covid-19 as its just too dangerous abandoned and unwelcoming to many people's viewpoint. Until downtown can be cleaned up atleast somewhat to pre covid-19 downtown levels i doubt many will want to comeback.

[esquire]

There’s a lot more question marks in the NHL before we harp on Winnipeg for its subpar attendance.

Arizona is a disaster, Buffalo has sucked for awhile, Ottawa has had dwindling fan support ever since their ECF appearance, Columbus is a dumpster fire, and funny thing is even New Jersey (the 19-4 team) has a lower average attendance then us.

That’s not even considering tickets are dirt cheap in a lot of American markets. If they had Jets prices they would likely be at 50% capacity.

Enough with the doomerism. The Jets are a good team, Chipman & Thompson have not even hinted towards those talks, and they play in the middle of the city. Let’s not act like half the cities license plates don’t have a Jets logo on it, or ignore the vast amount of Jets clothing you will see in public literally anywhere in the city. It’s our cities identity and is the best shot we have at garnering anything worthy of international attention. Just look at the relevance of Kansas City when they got Mahomes, or Edmonton when they got McDavid. Not saying we have a Mahomes or McDavid like player, but a successful franchise in a world class league sometimes can provide the moral boost necessary for legitimate growth and progress.

The reality is times are tough right now for Canadians in general. A lot of people are struggling to make ends meet they definitely aren’t considering dropping $250 for entertainment purposes. That’s enough for a week of groceries at most with how absurd food prices have climbed up recently. Winnipeggers are a resilient bunch I’m sure the tides will turn and hopefully when the Jets are in the playoffs and the whiteout returns we won’t be having these talks again for a while.

Although, maybe they could consider trying to up their game with promotional deals for idk university students, Indigenous people, and families for start. I bet 50% off drinks on certain nights would get butts in seats as well.

This is a good perspective. The Jets will be fine. Winnipeg will always support them. The Stockholm Syndrome "OMG we have to buy tickets or we're worthless as a city" is pure silliness.

The worst anyone can say is that the days of the Jets being a Leafs-style cash cow with 100% sellouts every night at very inflated price points are gone. But no one including TNSE ever thought that would last forever. It's impressive that it lasted for nearly a decade. Maybe in decade two TNSE will have to mark down some seats and run more specials and promos like most other NHL teams do.

[blueandgoldguy]

I doubt the danger of downtown Winnipeg plays much of a role in the vast majority of people's decision to attend a Jets game. It's more likely inflation in the cost of gas/food that has caused people to cutback on tickets....and the upcoming recession.

Gate revenue is still important for NHL teams' bottom lines, more so than any of the big-4 leagues, but it is less important than it was 11 years ago when the Jets came back. The league's other revenue streams have improved and the Jets new regional TV deal with TSN pays TNSE significantly more than the one the old one.

Sportico values the Jets more valuable than 10 other NHL teams. Part of that value is derived from revenue. The Jets are fine at this point.

https://www.sportico.com/feature/most-valuable-nhl-franchises-chart-1234693075/

[EdwardTH]

I doubt the danger of downtown Winnipeg plays much of a role in the vast majority of people's decision to attend a Jets game. It's more likely inflation in the cost of gas/food that has caused people to cutback on tickets....and the upcoming recession.

Yeah I don't see it either, but I do think work-from-home makes a big difference. maybe even more so than cost of living. You have tens of thousands of people who used to be downtown every weekday anyway, so no doubt many chose to stay downtown for dinner or just stay late at the office and then head to a game. Now those people never leave their living room and don't wanna be bothered to drive all the way downtown and find parking. Kinda sad that we're devolving into a society of people who never leave the couch and just stare at a screen all day and night.

[optimusREIM]

Yeah I don't see it either, but I do think work-from-home makes a big difference. maybe even more so than cost of living. You have tens of thousands of people who used to be downtown every weekday anyway, so no doubt many chose to stay downtown for dinner or just stay late at the office and then head to a game. Now those people never leave their living room and don't wanna be bothered to drive all the way downtown and find parking. Kinda sad that we're devolving into a society of people who never leave the couch and just stare at a screen all day and night.

Yeah the more things go online and digital the more I appreciate analog and real life….

[pegcityboy]

Thurmas not picking on you , but not one person i know has ever said to me downtown isn’t safe i’m not going to Jets , Concerts , Shaw Park , The Forks or Convention Centre etc etc because of feeling unsafe . Sorry i think that’s a big reach to say that , just my opinion . My wife used to work downtown we are downtown a fair bit not worried at all about our safety , sure we are aware of our surroundings but we are fine , lots of less safe downtowns than ours around North America .

[pspeid]

Thurmas not picking on you , but not one person i know has ever said to me downtown isn’t safe i’m not going to Jets , Concerts , Shaw Park , The Forks or Convention Centre etc etc because of feeling unsafe . Sorry i think that’s a big reach to say that , just my opinion . My wife used to work downtown we are downtown a fair bit not worried at all about our safety , sure we are aware of our surroundings but we are fine , lots of less safe downtowns than ours around North America .

I agree completely.

[thurmas]

Thurmas not picking on you , but not one person i know has ever said to me downtown isn’t safe i’m not going to Jets , Concerts , Shaw Park , The Forks or Convention Centre etc etc because of feeling unsafe . Sorry i think that’s a big reach to say that , just my opinion . My wife used to work downtown we are downtown a fair bit not worried at all about our safety , sure we are aware of our surroundings but we are fine , lots of less safe downtowns than ours around North America .

We must be in different circles tons of friends and work colleagues of mine in st vital Windsor Park st boniface and Waverly heights refuse to go now.