Winnipeg Jets

[Berklon]

Interesting. Losing money hand over fist and still averaging 14,789 people per game.

Don't be fooled by the attendance numbers. The 14,000+ represents tickets distributed - not tickets sold or even actually butts in the seats. Florida gives away around 3,000 tickets each game, Phoenix is probably around 2,000. And when they're selling tickets, they do so at an extremely reduced price and with offers of free food/drinks. On average Phoenix probably has no more than 10,000 actual fans at the games - which really hurts concession sales as well.

Florida the other night had a "listed attendance" of 10,000+, but there was actually around 5,000-6,000 accounted for through the turn-styles (mind you there was some Florida bowl games being played - but it's not much better othe rnights). Reading the specific teams forums is an eye-opener - you get to hear about how empty the buildings are. Someone mentioned that at the Panthers game from the upper bowl they can clearly hear conversations from people in the lower bowl. It was THAT empty and quiet.

When I used to have the NHL Centre Ice package, it was incredible how empty and quiet arenas were in Atlanta, Phoenix, Florida and Carolina.

Don't be fooled by the posted attendance figures.

You can see the empty seats in the lower bowl in the replay video in Florida from that night:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2008020602

This is what you get at Phoenix games (attendance, not the cheerleader ;) ):
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/1125343639_69399b6810.jpg?v=0

[Only The Lonely..]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/1125343639_69399b6810.jpg?v=0

Why are there pieces of paper posted on some of the seats? Any ideas?

[Andy6]

Why are there pieces of paper posted on some of the seats? Any ideas?

air sickness bags?

maybe it's to fool the cameras by creating the impression there are people in the seats

[flatlander]

I've been to Coyotes games twice in Phoenix, and both times it was full of Canadians. Holidayers, not snowbirds. I assume after Christmas the Canadian contingent goes down dramatically.

It was empty, it was boring, it was embarrassing to be there.

[Distill3d]

you know that if this was shown to Gary Bettman, it'd just be a case of "oh, we just need to build smaller arena's in these areas"

[viperred88]

Why are there pieces of paper posted on some of the seats? Any ideas?


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/1125343639_69399b6810.jpg?v=0

They look like white t-shirts to me, copying our famous white-out.

By the way is having cheerleaders a good way to lure fans to the rink. Nah I doubt it even if they had ice cubes rubbed on their niples before the game. Although she is not hard on the eyes;) Its just another desperate attempt to lure fans in weak hockey markets and crappy hockey teams. I don't t even think baseball has cheerleaders.

[Distill3d]

^baseball is the sport that needs them the most....baseball and golf

[viperred88]

^baseball is the sport that needs them the most....baseball and golf

Golf?

ok then you gonna start telling me Chess ...



http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/Jhendrix70_/Jets/JetsWhiteout96.jpg

[newflyer]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/1125343639_69399b6810.jpg?v=0

WOW ... Florida would love to have an attendance like that on many nights. :yes:

I have heard on a radio show that there are some nights when the Panthers are playing before 6000 actual people... regardless of what the inflated announced attendance is.

But as circumstances have come to pass the Coyotes are quickly running out of cash.. and th owner can't afford to pay for any losses, as his primary business (transportation) is facing very rough waters during this recession. He will direct his availabl resources to the more viable operation .. and let the hockey team hang in the balance. He has already gone to the NHL and local government for much needed assistance.

[JayM]

I think its gotten so bad that they think with even hot ass bitches wearing barely anything on.. it will help them bring in more consumers which is dead wrong. I think its kinda weird actually.

[viperred88]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/1125343639_69399b6810.jpg?v=0

They look like white t-shirts to me, copying our famous white-out.

By the way is having cheerleaders a good way to lure fans to the rink. Nah I doubt it even if they had ice cubes rubbed on their niples before the game. Although she is not hard on the eyes;) Its just another desperate attempt to lure fans in weak hockey markets and crappy hockey teams. I don't t even think baseball has cheerleaders.

I think its gotten so bad that they think with even hot ass bitches wearing barely anything on.. it will help them bring in more consumers which is dead wrong. I think its kinda weird actually.

Like I said.

[newflyer]

I think its gotten so bad that they think with even hot ass bitches wearing barely anything on.. it will help them bring in more consumers which is dead wrong. I think its kinda weird actually.

Suggesting that she is wearing barely anything is a little over the top .. you can see more skin at the mall on any given day.

With that said you have to realize that for many Americans, cheerleaders are an accepted sideshow of many sporting events. I think in the southern markets they are trying to emulate the NBA, which is a much more popular sport. It may not bring in more fans, it definately adds some entertainment during stoppages, as they do in football and basketball.

Canadian teams don't ignore sex appeal either by any means ... throughout the games they have sexy girls wearing skimpy outfits cleaning the ice surface during advertisement breaks.

At least the cheerleaders are there to encourage fan support... kinda like Winnipeg's own Dancing Gabe. :rolleyes:

Personally I'd choose the girl.

[RAFS]

Personally I'd choose the girl.
Without question :cheers:

[Greco Roman]

That cheerleader likely generates more reaction from the fans in Phoenix than the actual hockey game itself.

[ILYR]

BYE BYE PHOENIX ...

REPORT: COYOTES LOSE OUT ON PORTION OF REVENUE SHARING
TSN.CA

The NHL revenue-sharing program is designed to help smaller market teams compete with bigger market teams. But you have to hit specific targets and, according to ESPN.com's Scott Burnside, the Phoenix Coyotes were unable to collect last season.

Burnside reports the Coyotes were penalized 25% of their portion of the revenue-sharing pot last season. Teams can only collect their share of the revenue-sharing money if they attain certain revenue and attendance targets.

The Coyotes continue to struggle financially as the league searches for new investors for the club. Last week, the Coyotes laid off 18 office staff members.

So who here thinks Phoenix will survive past next season? It will only get worse with the US economy in the dumps.

[RAFS]

So who here thinks Phoenix will survive past next season? It will only get worse with the US economy in the dumps.
Unfortunately, Bettman will do EVERYTHING in his power to keep them there. And my bet would be that he will succeed.

[JayM]

Without question :cheers:

I will just goto teasers on archibald for that kind of gurlie action!

[ILYR]

Unfortunately, Bettman will do EVERYTHING in his power to keep them there. And my bet would be that he will succeed.

I agree, Bettman would not want to "admit" his mistake. However, it will be hard for him to convince the rest of the league to put up with losses in the 10's of millions, if not more. When Buffalo went bankrupt the economy was in a much different position, and Buffalo is a much bigger hockey town. Bettman will get backed into a corner and Gretzky wont be able to do squat.

[newflyer]

BYE BYE PHOENIX ...


So who here thinks Phoenix will survive past next season? It will only get worse with the US economy in the dumps.

I doubt they will survive the remainder of this year, without a major injection of cash.

This team is as good as gone this summer unless some rich idiot desides he wants to lose tons of cash on a hockey team based in Arizona.
The recession is really hurting the marginal NHL teams ... with the loss of corporate sponsorship and there is a big concern about season ticket sales for next year.

NHL meet the bottom .. bottom meet the NHL .. I have a feeling you'll be spending a good amount of time together. The southern US experiment is an outright failure... other than Dallas.

[J-MAN]

I cant seem to get past the fact that we had the jets in winnipeg, but now we dont.. why didnt it work 13 years ago..
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/172129286_cde1359594.jpg?v=0

[newflyer]

I cant seem to get past the fact that we had the jets in winnipeg, but now we dont.. why didnt it work 13 years ago..
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/172129286_cde1359594.jpg?v=0

Oh Please :yuck:

.... the city was in a complete disarray ... nobody could agree with anyone and the lefties were hard-set against everything to do with the team.
The Free Press editorial board was dead set against it .. it was a lost cause ... and a miracal was needed to save the team.

It required very strong leadship and there was very little available... No arena was built... so the team left town..

... then


they built a new arena... and now we have our AHL Moose.


It would be funny if it weren't so painful.

[newflyer]

It was a very high cost ....

but in some ways the city learnt a very valueable lesson ....

DUMMY UP STUPID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It has gone down as the city's biggest blunder in its history.

[1ajs]

aww yes the 90's by far the worst decade

though alot the blows that lead to the 90s were done in the 80's by the province from what i understand...

[JayM]

I'd like to know where that picture came from.

[Greco Roman]

I'd like to know where that picture came from.

Probably Edmonton based on the Oilers jerseys? :shrug:

[J-MAN]

it was on the first page of yahoo images, from this guys flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kk/172129286/) :P

[newflyer]

aww yes the 90's by far the worst decade

though alot the blows that lead to the 90s were done in the 80's by the province from what i understand...

If you ask me the city had lacked serious leadship since the 50's... as the city has seriously tried to centrally manage the city, while ignoring private investment. Over that time Winnipeg saw its status continuously decline, handed away to city's with visions to embrace enterprise... and the image of the city also declined greatly in this period, as many looked for opportunity else where.

Until recently this was still the case.. I think enough people finally got fed up.... but lately the city has refocused on building whats important, which is the local economy and the city's image. Confidence in the city is growing, as is the population in proportions not seen in a very long time. We are now starting to reap the benefits of these new policies.

Of course there is a long way to go ... but I am very pleased with the overall direction the city is going. I just hope there will be room for another capitalist when the time is right.

Oh and of course the return of our NHL team.

[JayM]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/84/242805672_23e85dc60c.jpg?v=0

[Andy6]

If you ask me the city had lacked serious leadship since the 50's... as the city has seriously tried to centrally manage the city, while ignoring private investment. Over that time Winnipeg saw its status continuously decline, handed away to city's with visions to embrace enterprise... and the image of the city also declined greatly in this period, as many looked for opportunity else where.

Maybe, but it is difficult to see how the centre of gravity in the Western Canadian economy wasn't bound to shift westward no matter what was going on in Winnipeg's City Hall. The 1973 Oil Crisis was a final and devastating blow to Winnipeg's pre-eminence, turning Alberta into a boom economy and allowing Calgary to supplant Winnipeg as a banking and corporate finance centre. Not much a few local politicians in Winnipeg could have done about that. From what I recollect of the ICEC-dominated Winnipeg city council of the 60s and 70s, it was extremely developer-friendly, which is how most of downtown got wrecked and perhaps why some of the "seniors" of today aren't wild about certain new development proposals.

[Only The Lonely..]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/84/242805672_23e85dc60c.jpg?v=0

The Finnish Flash is looking a little out of shape these days..

[1ajs]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/84/242805672_23e85dc60c.jpg?v=0

that dude looks familiar...

[newflyer]

Maybe, but it is difficult to see how the centre of gravity in the Western Canadian economy wasn't bound to shift westward no matter what was going on in Winnipeg's City Hall. The 1973 Oil Crisis was a final and devastating blow to Winnipeg's pre-eminence, turning Alberta into a boom economy and allowing Calgary to supplant Winnipeg as a banking and corporate finance centre. Not much a few local politicians in Winnipeg could have done about that. From what I recollect of the ICEC-dominated Winnipeg city council of the 60s and 70s, it was extremely developer-friendly, which is how most of downtown got wrecked and perhaps why some of the "seniors" of today aren't wild about certain new development proposals.

Winnipeg was very slow to gravitate back to the business based economy (as it was during the boom periods).. it instead floated into some form of stagnant melais. Sleeping for decades while other cities were busy supporting the enhancing there business community. Meanwhile Winnipeg, perhaps in a state of proud overconfidence, did nothing and ended up watching numerous corporations move there offices out of he city, and other city's business community grew over a long period of strong national economic growth. It was during this period that the city lost a great deal including its status as one of the big 4, to rapidly declining to the top 8... while corporate jobs fled at a very quick rate.

You can say what you want about Calgary, but it is ultimately the failure of the city of Winnipeg to work at its own economic growth, which was the failure of our city leaders, and resulted in the problems we see today. By the time the 70's rolled around there were an evident lost sense of the importance of sustainable economic growth, as city debt ballooned to pay for unsustainable government models.... reinforced by growing tax levels, pushing the city further away from being competitive. Meanwhile other city's benefitted greatly from Winnipeg's omittion of leadership over that period.

[hexrae]

The Finnish Flash is looking a little out of shape these days..

He is on the Injured Reserve (and won't be coming off any time soon by the looks of it :cool: )

[MooseJets]

Gretzky confirms Coyotes in trouble

MATTHEW SEKERES

January 16, 2009

VANCOUVER -- Phoenix Coyotes head coach Wayne Gretzky confirmed yesterday that the troubled NHL franchise requires financial assistance and is seeking an investor who could help keep the team in Arizona.

The Coyotes could lose as much as $45-million (all currency U.S.) this season, including interest payments, and owner Jerry Moyes is looking for a partner. He also is speaking to city officials in Glendale about the lease arrangement at the community-owned Jobing.com Arena.

Yesterday, when Gretzky was asked whether the owner could continue to operate the club, given its losses, he deferred queries to Moyes. But Gretzky, the club's coach and managing partner, also signalled that Moyes requires investment in the franchise and financial relief from the city of Glendale.

"I don't think it is any big secret that Mr. Moyes has asked for new partners or investors," Gretzky said. "Mr. Moyes is doing the best he can in working with the city and city officials. Our responsibility is to come, show up and play, and play the best we can."

Since The Globe and Mail began documenting the Coyotes' economic woes last month, no one from the club's management had confirmed that it was seeking financial help.

A TSN report on Wednesday said that as much as 80 per cent of the team is expected to be sold in the next two months, and that Moyes would retain as much as 20 per cent. Barring a sale, the club could be forced into bankruptcy proceedings. It is possible the Coyotes could be disbanded or moved out of Phoenix before next season.
The Coyotes entered a game against the Vancouver Canucks last night in seventh place, a playoff spot, in the Western Conference.

The team is trying to snap a seven-year postseason drought behind a youth movement that features seven players who are 22 or younger.

"The older players definitely don't let [the financial trouble] be a distraction, but the younger players don't understand it, maybe," said defenceman Derek Morris, the team's union representative. "We realize that things aren't good, but they are still treating us first-class here. They're allowing us to play hockey."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/s..../TPStory/Sports

[Archiseek]

i like this line - It is possible the Coyotes could be disbanded or moved out of Phoenix before next season.

[rrskylar]

In terms of a sound new home for the Coyote's only three destinations come to mind: southern Ontario, Seattle and Winnipeg. Some of the experts think hockey would fly in Kansas City, Houston or Las Vegas but their fate would be much like the Coyotes and Predators ( and Lightning, Thrashers, etc.)

[0773|=\]

I don't think those three cities are the only ones where it would work. I'd argue Kansas City has all the pieces in place for a successful team. They actually GET winter there, they have a downtown arena, not some far-flung suburban barn that loses relevancy with the city. Also, the Coyotes are poised to be a much better performing team in a couple of years. A new team that makes the playoffs early on will get KC excited. They're pretty starved for a team that they can rally behind. I think they're a market that would quickly embrace hockey (much the same way Dallas has).

I also wonder why everyone overlooks Salt Lake City. That's a winter city if there ever was one. Just under 2 million metro population, one pro franchise competing at the same time of year as them (Jazz), and their population base is young and wealthy. I think they could easily handle another.

Obviously I'd rank Winnipeg and Southern Ontario ahead of these US options, but I don't think KC, SLC, or Seattle would be bad decisions.

[wags_in_the_peg]

[QUOTE=0773|=\;4030224]I don't think those three cities are the only ones where it would work. I'd argue Kansas City has all the pieces in place for a successful team. QUOTE]

I though Kansas City potential owner (boots belagio (sp?)) is in serious trouble with the tax police and is close to bankruptcy. it think they are off the radar because of that

[Archiseek]

boots will likely be going to the bighouse for fraud.....

[Distill3d]

In terms of a sound new home for the Coyote's only three destinations come to mind: southern Ontario, Seattle and Winnipeg. Some of the experts think hockey would fly in Kansas City, Houston or Las Vegas but their fate would be much like the Coyotes and Predators ( and Lightning, Thrashers, etc.)

Seattle? i know the Sonics just left, but they have WHL filling the hockey void...Southern Ontario has the Leafs, Wings, and Sabres.

so, the only obvious choice without moving it to a novelty market (Las Vegas) or a non hockey market (KC or Houston) would be Winnipeg

[Only The Lonely..]

Hey Sam, jet down to NYC and get in Gary's face

Randy Turner | Winnipeg Free Press


Wonder if Sam Katz has been to New York lately?

Maybe took a stroll down the Avenue of the Americas to meet some little guy in his office on the 12th floor, overlooking downtown Manhattan.

Just curious, because that's exactly what the mayor of Hartford, Eddie Perez, did this week, with a posse of the city's business leaders in tow. And they all headed to Gotham to make a pitch to NHL commissioner Gary Bettman.

"The meeting was to make sure we put Hartford on his radar screen as a city that is bullish about bringing hockey back to Hartford," Perez told the Toronto Star. "We have a great fan base left over from the Hartford Whaler days, and I have a challenge as a mayor to figure out what to do with an aging civic centre, which has outlived its purpose."

Meanwhile, over in Kansas City, city officials announced Thursday that the Los Angeles Kings and the New York Islanders will play an exhibition game in September in the spanking new $276 million (18,500-seat) Sprint Center, which opened its shiny doors last year.

"I'm excited, I think it's great," Paul McGannon, head of a local organization trying to help bring an NHL team to Kansas City, gushed in the Kansas City Star. "New York has three teams. If they don't want to build a new rink in Long Island, we'll take their team."

That's right, Islanders owner Charles Wang wants out of the ancient Nassau Mausoleum (nee Coliseum), where the Isles are dead last in attendance in the NHL. Geez, that's like being the worst actor in a Paulie Shore movie.

Yet, my, what an amazing coincidence that Wang would agree to meet the Kings in Kansas City, yes?

A third news item, out of Vancouver, has the Great One admitting the obvious: That the Phoenix Coyotes are desperately searching for investors in a team that may lose -- and how they manage this, we don't know -- up to $45 million this season, according to The Globe and Mail.

Hands up, anyone interested? The club is only a gazillion dollars in debt, already signed away all revenue to cover loans and currently requires NHL welfare to stay afloat.

Of course, these are not unrelated developments. The folks in Kansas City have a state-of-the-art, empty building. They smell blood, and they intend to pounce on the first NHL carcass that hits the ground. Of note, however, this is not the first NHL exhibition game in the Sprint Center. Last year the Kings played the St. Louis Blues and the "announced crowd" was just over 11,000. Ahem.

The good mayor of Hartford, on the other hand, doesn't have a new arena, but obviously knows a potential fire sale when he sees one. Whether or not the people of Connecticut want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on an arena in the midst of an economic maelstrom -- without any guarantee of a team if they do (Hello, Hamilton) -- is another matter entirely.

But you can see what's happening here. It's clear to the circling predators that more than one NHL team won't make it through the financial crisis -- unless they're bankrolled by profitable franchises indefinitely. But that's probably not going to happen.

Why? Because we're pretty convinced all the leaks about the Coyotes' fiscal woes are coming directly from anonymous NHL governors who don't want to continue forking over between $5 million and $12 million annually to prop up the likes of the Nashville Predators, Coyotes and Florida Panthers. This information is of much concern in southern Ontario, where the notion of an NHL franchise in the Hamilton area is not only intriguing, but gaining traction with each league cheque cashed by the one of the poorer sisters.

Where does Winnipeg fit in? Good question. The city has a new, but modestly-sized arena, a fan base, but no clear money man and uncertain corporate support. Still, that might be more attractive than Hartford (no arena, some fan base) or Kansas City (owner, arena, no fan base). Hamilton has an arena, a fan base and corporate support up the ying-yang. The only problem is the prospective owner, Jim Balsillie, who in the eyes of Bettman is a cross between Hannibal Lecter and Richard Simmons. (That means not only will he kill you and eat your liver, he'll do it in the most annoying way possible.)

It's not like Mark Chipman and the folks at the MTS Centre have been sitting on their hands. They've expressed their interest to the NHL, made a pitch to Bettman and the league governors, and have patiently been waiting for the phone to ring.

It's just that it's fast getting to the point where those aren't phones ringing in the NHL any more. They are alarm bells going off in Phoenix and Long Island, and they can be heard from Hartford to Kansas City.

So what do you say, Sam?

No one's saying this city can afford an NHL team. No one's talking about using public money to get one, either. It has to work financially or forget it. But we hear New York is lovely this time of year. Your exposed skin doesn't even freeze in 30 seconds.

Besides, we hear that Bettman guy is just adorable. Sweet as pecan pie. Maybe give him a call. Tell him to put the guy from Hartford on hold.

randy.turner@freepress.mb.ca

[Andy6]

If no public money is to go to the team, then why is it Sam Katz' job to go to New York? Shouldn't Randy Turner be urging some businessman to go? Ben Hatskin founded the Jets, not Steve Juba.

[viperred88]

Mark this on your calender.

On April 28, 1996, the Winnipeg Jets died at the Winnipeg Arena not only at the hands of the Detroit Red Wings with a 4 to 1 loss, but also at those of then and now NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman.

On April 28th of 2009, thirteen years after the fact, dress up in your Jets jerseys, t-shirts and hats to commemorate the old Winnipeg Jets, but also to show the NHL that WE ARE READY for the RETURN of the Jets as early as September 2009!

GO JETS GO

[viperred88]

Its true what you are saying but he is also suppose to act like a cheerleader for this city to be in the big leagues. It would sure be nice to see 15 000 fans hanging around downtown for forty games a year. It would sure accelerate the buisiness climate in that area and bring in more restaurants and little retail shops in the area.

the ownership is quietly wanting to acquire a team and don't want a bidding war thats why you hear of them.

[JayM]

Ya I just read that in the FP interesting to know if Hartford can make a team of people in pursuit of the NHL back to Connecticut. I am sure Winnipeg can do the same and make more of an appeal.

[JayM]

Mark this on your calender.

On April 28, 1996, the Winnipeg Jets died at the Winnipeg Arena not only at the hands of the Detroit Red Wings with a 4 to 1 loss, but also at those of then and now NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman.

On April 28th of 2009, thirteen years after the fact, dress up in your Jets jerseys, t-shirts and hats to commemorate the old Winnipeg Jets, but also to show the NHL that WE ARE READY for the RETURN of the Jets as early as September 2009!

GO JETS GO

There should be a set place for everyone to join and dress up as a celebratory event. Do it at the Leg or City Hall.

[viperred88]

a new hockey site if interested

http://thehockeywriters.com/

[viperred88]

The Hockey Writers
all you need to know about the NHL
Posted by Darren Ford on Jan 17th, 2009
(photos courtesy of Alex Snell)

http://thehockeywriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/phx21-150x150.jpg
http://thehockeywriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/phx31-150x150.jpghttp://thehockeywriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/phx11-150x150.jpg

Desert(ed)
They say a picture says a thousand words. In that case here are 3000 words.



Cute girl though. She almost masks the globs of burgundy seats behind her. Almost.

I couldn’t help but react to a blindly written article in USA Today a few days ago. Kevin Allen writes with the optimism reminiscent of one of Gary Bettman’s State Of The League addresses. What he fails to discuss is the true dire straits the Phoenix Coyotes are in right now, and have been in for some time. In fact they were doomed from the day they left Maroons Road at Polo Park in city that now lets the Vancouver Canucks farm club call home. Granted, things weren’t all that great when they left Winnipeg, but it had nothing to do with the fans or corporate support. Never did.

The pictures above, taken this season at a Saturday night game no less, tell a different story. So do the books in the ‘Yotes offices. And they are very closely correlated. No fans equals no revenues. In fact quite the opposite. In the 13 seasons being in the desert, the Coyotes have endured multiple owners and over a half billion dollars in losses, including over $30 million this year, prompting league life support to keep them above water. No pun intended. These are levels unimaginable if the team were to still reside in Manitoba’s capital. Yes, Winnipeg is always deemed a small market. But that is population wise. What about hockey fan wise? What does raw population have to do with selling hockey tickets? All that matters to the NHL, or all that should matter, is how many hockey fans there are in a market, not people. Under that mentality, why not put a team in Sydney or Hong Kong? Oh boy, I better not give Gary any ideas. And you can’t say the reason is TV revenue because anyone in the US that tries to find NHL hockey on TV will bellow a collective laugh at that reasoning.

Winnipeg has more hockey fans per capita than possibly any market in North America and no other sport that ranks above it to compete with. No NFL, MLB, NBA, NASCAR or any number of NCAA teams. Nope, hockey is front page news in Winnipeg, even the AHL’s Manitoba Moose, who by the way draw 6,000-8,000 fans on a regular basis. For those of you wondering, that’s roughly how many paying customers the Coyotes are drawing when you subtract how many tickets are freebies or discount tickets. And as for actual attendances, the photos above were from a game on Saturday, November 1st against the Wild. These are not pre-game photos but rather during play. They announced a crowd of 14,817. Now look at the photos again. Now 14,817 wouldn’t be great, especially for a Saturday night anyway, but the actual attendance is clearly more in the range of 9,000-10,000. Wouldn’t want to see a Tuesday night.

Now I’m not attacking Phoenix for any particular reason other than they are on the radar to relocate at some point and that interests many peolpe where I come from. The reality is that 6 or 7 teams are in similar dismal situations. Namely Nashville, Atlanta, Miami, Tampa, Columbus, Raleigh and even the New York Islanders. Although their issues are unique in themselves, they still pose the questions: has the NHL finally come to terms that the sun belt experiment has failed miserably and if so, how do they intend to fix it?

It’s not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

Lets go back to Phoenix. They cannot simply pack up and move to the highest bidder. They have a building that was constructed almost entirely contingent on the existence of the Coyotes as the NBA Suns still play out of US Airways Center. There are rumoured penalties of in excess of $700 million to bail out of Phoenix. The only option is Chapter 11, the most dreaded term in any entrepreneur’s vocabulary.

But what is the alternative, really? I’m sure to get hate mail, but there is no long-term hope in Arizona for NHL hockey. They are currently ranked dead last in value by Forbes magazine, they have crowds like the ones seen above on a Saturday night, and they can’t ice a good hockey team. Ironic how many times Wayne Gretzky used to beat up on the Jets through the 1980’s only to possibly end up sinking with a ship called Jobing.com Arena. I’m in Arizona frequently. Phoenix included. I know the announced attendance vs. the real attendance. I know the atmosphere. I know the media coverage. In Phoenix it’s all about the Cardinals, and until this year they’ve been dreadful. In Tucson it’s all about Lute Olsen and the Wildcats.

Kevin Allen may want to see things with rose coloured glasses but some of his main points for why there is no reason for concern in Phoenix are ill-founded. Firstly, Gary Bettman saying the league has no plans to contract or relocate any franchise is like believing Pacman Jones doesn’t plan to go to a niteclub ever again. Secondly, some added parking revenue is not going to turn the buckets of red ink into black ink. Thirdly, yes Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Ottawa received financial assistance but they all have something in common. They are all established hockey markets with a proven track record…and…well…snow!

If moving a franchise is Gary Bettman’s last resort, well then that time has come, or at the very least is right over the horizon.

Winnipeg will regain an NHL franchise. I don’t know if it will be Phoenix, in fact likely not as that would be far too embarrassing for Gary Bettman to handle. Afterall, where was the life support for the Jets in 1995? But the inevitable is coming and no matter how much Kevin Allen or anyone else wants to think some parking revenue will save the day….it won’t. Sad actually, for the fans that do exist in Phoenix. Believe me, up here we know the feeling.

[JayM]

I have to note people from a province called "Saskatchewan" did attend Winnipeg NHL games. So for those who are Nay Sayers as far as population base include Saskatchewan as a factor. Might as well include Northwestern Ontario.. oh and the Dakotas. So there's a population area you can include into some calculations.

[viperred88]

There should be a set place for everyone to join and dress up as a celebratory event. Do it at the Leg or City Hall.

its from this facebook group

http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#/group.php?gid=2204487513&ref=ts

and this is the event that is planned

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=57639874896

[JayM]

its from this facebook group

http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#/group.php?gid=2204487513&ref=ts

and this is the event that is planned

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=57639874896

Well then! Off I go!

Well doesn't give a place really more like "hey wear Winnipeg maybe someone will notice" well I wear the Winnipeg Jersey every other day so its 'Jets Day' once week for me!

[newflyer]

If no public money is to go to the team, then why is it Sam Katz' job to go to New York? Shouldn't Randy Turner be urging some businessman to go? Ben Hatskin founded the Jets, not Steve Juba.

To draw an NHL team to Winnipeg it will require a community effort .. from the city, province and the local business community and most of all the fans. The NHL want to see everyone is on board.

The NHL of today is nothing like the startup WHA.

[newflyer]

There should be a set place for everyone to join and dress up as a celebratory event. Do it at the Leg or City Hall.

Better yet ... How about infront of the MTS Centre .. the new home of Winnipeg's soon to be realized JETS 2.0

I can't imagine a better sight .. than 20,000 - 30,000 wild Jets fans gathering infront of the MTS centre chanting ... GO JETS GO.

They'd have to close down Portage Ave ... in a scene similar to a certain U2 video.

I can only imagine what would go through the minds of the NHL brass ... once they got wind of what was happening in true hockey country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UiY3XsRvK4


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I think its time for a Good Old School Jets Rally.

http://www.manitobamythbusters.com/images/banner.jpg

[Andy6]

To draw an NHL team to Winnipeg it will require a community effort .. from the city, province and the locla business community and most of all the fans. The NHL want to see everyone is on board.

The NHL of today is nothing like the startup WHA.

True, but the difference is in the opposite direction: the NHL of today is about money and solid ownership much more than the WHA was. They aren't awarding franchises as prizes to cities that show enthusiasm in some sort of "Hockeyville" competition. They are already well aware of the fact that Winnipeggers like hockey. All that matters is money: there has to be an owner with a lot of it, particularly when NHL owners in the U.S. are not going to be very enthusiastic about adding another small-market Canadian team to the league.

Don't forget that even in the WHA the Jets couldn't make a go of it as a privately owned profit-making team and had to be taken over and operated by the city after just a couple of seasons.

Maybe the best way to get into the NHL would be to do it the same way as before. Form a rival league and wait until the NHL gets tired of competing and offers a "merger".

[viperred88]

It takes a huge organised community effort to set that afoot. I see no reason why it shouldn't work though.

Better yet ... How about infront of the MTS Centre .. the new home of Winnipeg's soon to be realized JETS 2.0

I can't imagine a better sight .. than 20,000 - 30,000 wild Jets fans gathering infront of the MTS centre chanting ... GO JETS GO.

They'd have to close down Portage Ave ... in a scene similar to a certain U2 video.

I can only imagine what would go through the minds of the NHL brass ... once they got wind of what was happening in true hockey country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UiY3XsRvK4


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I think its time for a Good Old School Jets Rally.

http://www.manitobamythbusters.com/images/banner.jpg

[viperred88]

a little off topic here but wouldn't it be great if the Jets were to ever come back that they would build a community hockey facility that they would share while they use it as a practise facility. Maybe it could be part of the revitalization of point douglas where you would have a park for all kinds of sports facilities and fields like baseball, football, soccer, tennis tied in with residential towers.

a jets practise rink like this would be great

http://canadiens.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=837&id=29947

[J-MAN]

winnipeg would seriously start to kick some ass if it had nhl agian :drunk: :upload_71700:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/winnipeg/1976Jets.jpg

[Andy6]

winnipeg would seriously start to kick some ass if it had nhl agian :drunk: :upload_71700:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/winnipeg/1976Jets.jpg

That's actually a photo from the WHA, which was really the high point of the Jets. The NHL part was boring by comparison. It would be nice to have them back provided that someone else, other than taxpayers, pays for them.

[JayM]

True, but the difference is in the opposite direction: the NHL of today is about money and solid ownership much more than the WHA was. They aren't awarding franchises as prizes to cities that show enthusiasm in some sort of "Hockeyville" competition. They are already well aware of the fact that Winnipeggers like hockey. All that matters is money: there has to be an owner with a lot of it, particularly when NHL owners in the U.S. are not going to be very enthusiastic about adding another small-market Canadian team to the league.

Don't forget that even in the WHA the Jets couldn't make a go of it as a privately owned profit-making team and had to be taken over and operated by the city after just a couple of seasons.

Maybe the best way to get into the NHL would be to do it the same way as before. Form a rival league and wait until the NHL gets tired of competing and offers a "merger".

Funny you say that because I was thinking the same thing. WHA made it possible and look what happened gave the NHL a run for its money. Made Bobby Hull a million dollar man.

[JayM]

winnipeg would seriously start to kick some ass if it had nhl agian :drunk: :upload_71700:

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/winnipeg/1976Jets.jpg

Ill scan in my moms autographed bobby hull 1972-73 team photo.

http://zedphreak.googlepages.com/wpg_jets_72-73_teamphoto72res.jpg

[wags_in_the_peg]

It would be nice to have them back provided that someone else, other than taxpayers, pays for them.

Why can't the taxpayers through in a bit of $? Imagine having 20 or so additional millionaires living in the city....is that a bad thing? Yeah they might only live here for 8-9 months a year, but do you not think they'll buy up real estate, eat in restaurants and buy nice clothes? many of the Jets players lived in Tuxedo back in the day as that was one of the only "higher end" areas of the city. Some of these millionaires would buy places in Pritchard Farms or Lindenwoods or Wellington cres but the younger dudes with no families would probably be in the Exchange in 1/2 million dollar lofts. In the old days I went to a party at Igor Ulunof place at the Ashdown Warehouse, it was cool. He was renting it and barely spoke a word of english. Man those jets were mean to him (in a fun way). Man to my rant...bring them here, use a BIT of gov't money and these guys will return it 10-fold in reveneue from taxes.

[Only The Lonely..]

Arizona folks claim Coyotes' demise all lies

By: Randy Turner | Winnipeg Free Prss - Jan. 21 - 2009


AN OPEN LETTER TO PHOENIX: First of all, congratulations on that Super Bowl business. And take good care of our boy, Steve Nash.

But we've got to set a few things straight for you Coyotes fans. We know that the local media there is doing the "Hear No Evil, See No Evil" thing lately when it's come to their NHL team. Not much in the papers about how the team could lose up to $45 million this year and has essentially given itself into hands of lenders.

Oh, there was a story recently in the Arizona Republic that began, "Some media types in Canada -- many who would probably like to see Original Six stay put and every other franchise move north of the border -- have been working themselves into a frenzy about the Coyotes. They seem convinced that the Coyotes are about to pull up stakes any day now."

The article was headlined, "Coyotes CEO chairman sets record straight" and quotes Coyotes boss Jeff Shumway saying, "Hockey will be a great sport in Phoenix and Glendale, probably way beyond my years."

While admitting that the Coyotes have suffered "significant financial losses, and that needs to be fixed," Shumway dismissed the "rumours" about the Coyotes not meeting payroll and being under league supervision. "A lot of this is coming from out of the state, out of the country," he said. "Rumours are rumours."

Anyway, we just wanted to set the record straight, too. By the way, is it Phoenixians? Phoenixites? Whatever, we just wanted to let you Arizona hockey fans know that whatever is happening to our... excuse me, your team has nothing to do with us in Winnipeg. We understand there are some Coyotes fans who think these media reports are some sort of conspiracy being dreamed up by bitter, twisted Jets fans.

"Those stupid Canadian journalists from podunk towns need to knock this crap off," said one thread posted with the handle, LetsGoCoyotes. "Winnipeg is NOT going to get another NHL franchise. Get over it."

Look, this stuff isn't even coming from Winnipeg. But you're right. There is somewhat of a conspiracy at play, but look no further than Toronto. That's where the leaks have been reported, and that's also -- coincidence? -- the home of a Leafs board of governors that writes a cheque of over $10 million every year to subsidize perennial money losers such as the Coyotes.

It's not about a bunch of shivering Jets mourners dredging up the past and pining for the NHL's return. There's some of that, of course, but let's just say we're much more realistic about the NHL in these parts than probably anywhere on the planet.

For the record, if the Coyotes were for sale, nobody in Winnipeg would buy them. That team is so mired in debt and a long-term arena lease that it would take a martini bar full of lawyers and accountants to sort out that mess. We're not sure if it's worth all that trouble to see Joakim Lindstrom take a regular shift.

Besides, we're not sure we could afford it, either. No, a team in Winnipeg probably wouldn't lose $45 million unless the ice was cut out of diamonds but there's no one around here that can write a blank cheque. That guy is named Jim Balsillie and he lives in Windsor, Ont., which is waaaaay east of here, just so you guys know.

Look, we know it hasn't been easy. I mean, you've had to pay to watch the Coyotes for, like, 12 years now. We feel your pain, dudes. That could have been us.

But, honest, we're not revelling in your misery. No, it doesn't exactly break our hearts -- after all, we didn't see any tears in Phoenix when Keith Tkachuk showed up -- but we're not dancing around our ice fishing holes, either.

Because it's not like you guys are stuck with the only sinking NHL ship. There's a whole armada out there now.

So, really, good luck with our... sorry again, that team. It's not your fault. You tried. It's just that nobody ever stopped to think that, "Hmmm. Maybe a hockey team in a desert might not be the greatest idea ever." Maybe not at first, but sometime after the $100-million loss mark. We're just sayin'.

Go Cardinals.


Randy Turner

Podunk, Canada

[viperred88]

nah nah nah nah hey hey goodbye
nah nah nah nah hey hey goodbye!!!
lol
adios phoenix

[trueviking]

a friend of mine is going to two habs games in the next couple of weeks...he bought one ticket in montreal against the bruins for $160.

he is then taking his family to florida where he will see the habs play in tampa bay...he got 4 tickets, 4 beers, 4 hot dogs and a free parking pass for $100 total.

[wags_in_the_peg]

a friend of mine is going to two habs games in the next couple of weeks...he bought one ticket in montreal against the bruins for $160.

he is then taking his family to florida where he will see the habs play in tampa bay...he got 4 tickets, 4 beers, 4 hot dogs and a free parking pass for $100 total.

Oh but I hear Tampa Bay is not in financial trouble either....how could they be making a profit with prices like that? especially with the Habs in town. ughhh

I saw the Habs play in Tampa Bay back in 2000...loved it. bought a 300 level ticket with plans on moving down like the old Winnipeg Arena days, but nope...no moving aloud. oh well we still loved the game. go habs go!!!

[wags_in_the_peg]

unbelievable

Report: Predators may buy own tickets to ensure NHL funds

TSN.ca Staff

1/22/2009 10:34:10 AM


On the heels of reports the Phoenix Coyotes lost out on revenue-sharing funds, the Nashville Predators are looking at boosting ticket sales with their own money.

According to the Tennessean, Predators officials have discussed the option of buying up unsold tickets to ensure they collect the maximum revenue-sharing from the league. Earlier this month, an ESPN.com report indicated the Coyotes forfeited 25% of their full share for failing to meet specific targets.

"We've consistently said that we're here to give everything we've got to make this work," Predators' lead owner David Freeman told the Tennessean.

For the Predators to qualify for a full share of their revenue-sharing monies from the league, average paid attendance in Nashville must reach the level of 14,000. After 22 home games, the team is 256 tickets short of that mark.

Last season, the Predators received their full share of revenue-sharing equalling $12 million, money that is crucial to the ongoing operations of the team. Falling short of just one target could mean forfeiting 25% of the full share.

"It's absolutely critical to us," Freeman told the Tennessean. "We're doing everything we can to grab as many dollars as we can so we can build the best hockey team we can build."

Currently, the Predators sit 14th in the Western Conference, eight points out of a playoff spot.

[Greco Roman]

unbelievable

Report: Predators may buy own tickets to ensure NHL funds

TSN.ca Staff

1/22/2009 10:34:10 AM


On the heels of reports the Phoenix Coyotes lost out on revenue-sharing funds, the Nashville Predators are looking at boosting ticket sales with their own money.

According to the Tennessean, Predators officials have discussed the option of buying up unsold tickets to ensure they collect the maximum revenue-sharing from the league. Earlier this month, an ESPN.com report indicated the Coyotes forfeited 25% of their full share for failing to meet specific targets.

"We've consistently said that we're here to give everything we've got to make this work," Predators' lead owner David Freeman told the Tennessean.

For the Predators to qualify for a full share of their revenue-sharing monies from the league, average paid attendance in Nashville must reach the level of 14,000. After 22 home games, the team is 256 tickets short of that mark.

Last season, the Predators received their full share of revenue-sharing equalling $12 million, money that is crucial to the ongoing operations of the team. Falling short of just one target could mean forfeiting 25% of the full share.

"It's absolutely critical to us," Freeman told the Tennessean. "We're doing everything we can to grab as many dollars as we can so we can build the best hockey team we can build."

Currently, the Predators sit 14th in the Western Conference, eight points out of a playoff spot.

American desperation at it's finest ;)

[Mille Sabords]

unbelievable

Report: Predators may buy own tickets to ensure NHL funds

Is this even legal? Smells a bit like the good'ol trick backdating stick options.

[Distill3d]

just got my annual Arizona State Visitors guide. of interest on page 43-45:

Sports fans will find plenty of spectator events in downtown and throughout Phoenix. NBA's Phoenix Suns hold court at US Airways Center, as do the WNBA Phoenix Mercury and the AFL Arizona Rattlers; a few blocks away, MLB's Arizona Diamondbacks get the hits at Chase Field, an engineering marvel with its retractable roof. Watch the Milwaukee Brewers at Maryvale Baseball Park and the Oakland As at Phoenix Municipal Stadium, two of seven spring training facilities in Greater Phoenix

it mentions the NBA, WNBA, AFL, and MLB franchises that call the city home. along with two teams that are only there for MLB spring training.



i also got my Manitoba Vistitors Guide, top of Page 34:
MANITOBA MOOSE HOCKEY
The Manitoba Moose is a member of the American Hockey League and the primary affiliate of the Vancouver Canucks. The Moose home games are downtown in the state-of-the-art MTS Centre.

wake up Bettman, hockey is a JOKE in these markets if the WNBA and AFL teams are making it in the tourism guides and the NHL isn't!!!

[Smron]

I would hate to play in one of those empty arenas down south.

On RDS the other night, when Montreal was playing in Atlanta, the commentators mentioned that when the crowd was making some noise, it was because of the trivia game being played on the jumbotron.. not the game, even though Atlanta was winning. I've never seen so many empty seats.

[newflyer]

Bettman will be the featured guest during the second intermission of the NHL All-Star game on CBC. The failing US markets should come up ... and more than likely Winnipeg will come up as well.

[newflyer]

just got my annual Arizona State Visitors guide. of interest on page 43-45:

it mentions the NBA, WNBA, AFL, and MLB franchises that call the city home. along with two teams that are only there for MLB spring training.


wake up Bettman, hockey is a JOKE in these markets if the WNBA and AFL teams are making it in the tourism guides and the NHL isn't!!!

I am not surprised in the least. Hockey falls well below most sports down there .... including the ones you mentioned.
Honestly the NHL doesn't even register down there... highschool sports get more coverage than the NHL on most days.

Bowling gets higher TV ratings down there ... the NHL is little more than fading couriosity. If they dropped back down to the AHL most people down there wouldn't know the difference... and the team would remain at its lofty level in the local tourist guide.

... and don't think for a second that Bettman hasn't been completely aware of this fact for many years now.

[JayM]

I think Bettman needs to read the Winnipeg Free Press and read that article ranking MTS Centre 19th in the WORLD! Only behind Toronto and Montreal in Canada.

[manny_santos]

The article was headlined, "Coyotes CEO chairman sets record straight" and quotes Coyotes boss Jeff Shumway saying, "Hockey will be a great sport in Phoenix and Glendale, probably way beyond my years."

That is a total hallucination on Shumway's part. Perhaps he has spent too much time in the Arizona desert? It doesn't take a university education to figure out an NHL franchise will never, ever be successful if there isn't a market for it. People aren't interested in hockey there, come on! Nothing they can do will ever create demand, even in 10,000 years. Why did Major League Baseball pull out of Montreal? If Bettman was running the MLB, the Expos would still be in Montreal, and the Big O would be Big Empty for every game.

Shumway sounds like a typical business suit type, who still has faith in a product long after everyone else has given up and gone home.

The NHL needs to simply shut down a few teams. Bring it back down to 16 teams, and move some others up north. But knowing Bettman, the NHL will expand yet again, and the next NHL franchises will pop up in Rio de Janeiro, Bogota, Guadalajara, Monterrey, and of course, Distrito Federal. I'll still be cheering for the Leafs when they play the Bogota Volcanoes.

[1ajs]

actualy i would not be surprized if a team wound up in mexico city or Guadalajara theres some rity good up and comming talent in mexico...

[JayM]

We will see if they talk to Bettman tonight in Montreal about the League and ask obvious questions.

[1ajs]

if hes got a brainhe would move a team back here and one to mexico

.. what times this game at?

[JayM]

if hes got a brainhe would move a team back here and one to mexico

.. what times this game at?

On right now on CBC 1st intermission.

[1ajs]

doh ok goes and figures out the rabbit ears crap

[1ajs]

aww wtf weres cbc?

[Greco Roman]

if hes got a brainhe would move a team back here and one to mexico

WTF??? Mexico? That would be about as viable as putting a team in Phoenix; oh wait.............. :haha:

[1ajs]

WTF??? Mexico? That would be about as viable as putting a team in Phoenix; oh wait.............. :haha:
in the next 20 yrs i could see it happening

[Greco Roman]

in the next 20 yrs i could see it happening

Not a chance in hell; only in your dreams, man. The day that Mexico gets an NHL team is the day that Winnipeg gets the Winter Olympic Games.

[1ajs]

what ever

[mr.John]

When will you people learn? Bettman is the Oswald of hockey he's just a patsy he doesn't call the shots.

[Rico Rommheim]

The day that Mexico gets an NHL team is the day that Winnipeg gets the Winter Olympic Games.

Careful what you wish for, the former isn't quite impossible.

[Greco Roman]

Careful what you wish for, the former isn't quite impossible.

Are we really seriously saying that teams will appear in Mexico before Canada, and Winnipeg in particular? Are we in the twilight zone?

Well, the day that teams flow into Mexico is the day that the NHL is officially off it's rocker, and it's utter demise would soon follow.

[Greco Roman]

When will you people learn? Bettman is the Oswald of hockey he's just a patsy he doesn't call the shots.

Then who does?

[JayM]

Let me guess.... Free Masons?!

[1ajs]

WOW that was one hell of a game 11-11 then ot then shoot out east won

anyhow the crowed bood backman at the mvp award bit at the end that was great

[mr.John]

Fat cat American owners who don't want Winnipeg or any other Canadian city to have a franchise thats who ,in fact many Canadian asshole players don't want to play in Canada.... isn't that disgusting?

[1ajs]

Are we really seriously saying that teams will appear in Mexico before Canada, and Winnipeg in particular? Are we in the twilight zone?

Well, the day that teams flow into Mexico is the day that the NHL is officially off it's rocker, and it's utter demise would soon follow.
no i am seariosly saying there will be a team in mexico within 10-20 years from now!

have u been to mexico at ll.. yes there poor areas but theres also alot of money there.........

[JayM]

Fat cat American owners who don't want Winnipeg or any other Canadian city to have a franchise thats who ,in fact many Canadian asshole players don't want to play in Canada.... isn't that disgusting?

I can name one.... "BRETT HULL" or as I call him "BUTT HOLE"

[RAFS]

When will you people learn? Bettman is the Oswald of hockey he's just a patsy he doesn't call the shots.
While everyone on this planet hates Bettman (minus 30 owners), he really is just a spokesperson for them. Believe me, if they didn't like him, he wouldn't be there. That said, I still think he doesn't want teams in Canada, and will do everything in his power to convince the 24 U.S. owners of that (probably even the Cdn owners!).

BTW, has anyone ever listened to his Thursday afternoon call-in show on sat rad. I have to give him credit for being brave enough to do it. I can also hear him roll his eyes whenever he takes a call from Winnipeg!!!!

[RAFS]

I can name one.... "BRETT HULL" or as I call him "BUTT HOLE"
And isn't it ironic that it was his Dad who started this whole million dollar hockey player craze, on Portage and Main!!

[JayM]

And isn't it ironic that it was his Dad who started this whole million dollar hockey player craze, on Portage and Main!!

And while this is all going on the Golden Jet himself is in BC doing the hockey thing. WHA that is not of its former self but using the old logos. www.officialwha.com

[Andy6]

He's certainly picked some of the more obscure WHA teams, like the Denver Spurs, which lasted half a season, and the Miami Screaming Eagles, which never even played. The Los Angeles logo was that obese shark.

[JayM]

He's certainly picked some of the more obscure WHA teams, like the Denver Spurs, which lasted half a season, and the Miami Screaming Eagles, which never even played. The Los Angeles logo was that obese shark.

Yeah there were a few teams that never seen the daylight or lasted half a season.

[trueviking]

anyone catch that espn poll of 250 nhl players....they asked where should the nhl move to....vegas was first (by quite a bit) and winnipeg was second...twice as many votes as hamilton or quebec.

[newflyer]

anyone catch that espn poll of 250 nhl players....they asked where should the nhl move to....vegas was first (by quite a bit) and winnipeg was second...twice as many votes as hamilton or quebec.

Las Vegas is a little surprising .... considering they (the NHLPA) would be on the hook for another big money losing franchise. I don't see a bunch of under paid service industry workers and tourists streaming to see NHL in another hot desert city. Today casino's are losing money hand over fist... and there is little to no chance of this happening in my lifetime.

Winnipeg.. well in my mind its as obivious as the nose on Bettman's face. A year ago I would have put the odds at 30 to 50% that Winnipeg would see a return of the NHL.

Today I would put it over 70% ... and as several US markets colapse in the coming year those odds only get higher.