Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[markbarbera]

I can guarantee there is no appetite among council to increase the city contribution to this stadium. Any councillor that thinks he or she can get enough support to pass a resolution that sees the costs to the city more than double in order to proceed with a full-sized stadium at WH is delusional.

[mattgrande]

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/474026--stadium-essential-to-east-end-development


From the article:


He said he would like to see Scott Park and the Jimmy Thompson Memorial Pool redeveloped as well as “more community facilities put into the area.”

On a social level, he said the neighbourhood would also benefit from “mixed housing” that could accommodate residents from a variety of backgrounds and levels of income.


While that would be nice, it's far more likely that that space will become a Boston Pizza.

[markbarbera]

Not likely since there's already a Boston Pizza in the area.

And here I was thinking you had dropped that quote in your post to praise the efforts to maintain the community sporting facilities in the plan for the precinct.

Why spread so much pessimistic attitude around? How about using the energy in a positive way and channel it to support a mixed-use approach?

Personally, after reading the article I think it's exciting to see a neighbourhood embrace the project. Just about every other proposed location was met by strong NIMBY resistance by the residents in the area and/or their council representative.

[bigguy1231]

I can guarantee there is no appetite among council to increase the city contribution to this stadium. Any councillor that thinks he or she can get enough support to pass a resolution that sees the costs to the city more than double in order to proceed with a full-sized stadium at WH is delusional.

They got the support for the smaller stadium at the WH. They will get the support for the additional contribution from the city if needed. From what I have heard they already have enough support to do it. That was part of the latest negotiating plan for the WH before the mayor interfered in the process with this IWS proposal. To say that they are a little pissed with the mayor would be putting it mildly. So don't count on the mayor getting co operation with anything he proposes.

As for financing it, it would be a capital cost ammortized over 30 or 40 years with minimal impact on taxes.

[markbarbera]

If there are councillors "pissed off" at the mayor for working out a solution that keeps the project within the original budget scope because it scuttles a councillor's plan to force a solution that would double the city's financial obligations, then that is a perfect example of what is wrong with this city.

Managing to broker a stadium solution that keeps the federal and provincial investment dollars within the city, works for the facility's principal tenant, keeps the city's financial obligations from skyrocketing and also still meets the general objectives of the Future Fund and Pan Am games committee is an achievement that should be celebrated. If this IWS proposal pans out (and there is no obvious reason why it should not) then I say well done, Mr. Mayor.

Imagine what council could achieve if individual councillors put aside the need to fuel their personal egos and actually worked together in a pragmatic way to come up with workable solutions to the challenging issues this city needs to address.

[bigguy1231]

Mark,

He didn't broker anything, all he did was contact Bob Young and the two of them made an announcement. There is no deal or solution.

As for the egos on council, can you blame them. The mayor offered to renovate IWS without even consulting council. It wasn't even on their radar. Anyone who has the arrogance to go behind councils back deserves whatever he gets. He should have contacted councillors after he met with Bob Young and let them know what was happening before they called a news conference to announce the supposed deal. He tried to do an end around on them and got sacked for his troubles. Why do you think he was so quiet at the council meeting. He knew what he had done was the wrong way to do it. He tried to pull a fast one, and councillors have called him on it.

There is a reason that IWS was never under consideration, it was going to cost almost as much to renovate as to build new. That isn't going to change. They have the numbers already. If anything with the additional parking and the cost of replacing well used playing fields it is going to cost even more than previously thought.

[markbarbera]

As was stated in this article in the Spec on January 11 (http://www.thespec.com/news/article/319951--ticats-choose-ivor-wynne), Bratina was made aware that the Ticats wanted to discuss a potential solution Monday afternoon. That evening he called the organization, they made their proposal and discussed the details well into the evening. To be clear, it was the Ticats who made the proposal to renovate IWS, not Bratina. The mayor and the Ticats hammered out a deal late Monday night to be brought to council for approval for consideration.

Early Tuesday morning Bratina contacted the council members to inform them of the development, well in advance of any press conference. From the time the proposal was originally made to the time councillors were informed of the developments was mere hours. Bob Young appeared before council members at the GIC meeting on January 11, less than 24 hours after first discussing IWS with the mayor. If there are council members complaining they were out of the loop they are being disingenuous.

Yes, Bratina was quiet for much of the meeting. He was chairing the meeting for much of the night. From my observations, he held his tongue to allow the council members to speak their mind so to keep the meeting civil and discourage it from escalating into an emotion-driven discussion. I find it interesting that critics of Bratina that were so quick to predict he would be a hot-tempered mayor who'd lead raucous meetings are now critiquing him for keeping quiet and allowing all council to speak their mind during the council meeting.

IWS had not been considered previously because of the limitations of the area around IWS when the original track proposal also required a practice track. When the track events were moved out of Hamilton the space limitations became irrelevant. That is why IWS can now be seriously considered.

With regards to costing the development of the IWS site, everyone involved is well aware of the budget limitations and are planning the project within the constraints of that budget. Rest assured the plan that will be presented to council on the 27th will be costed to be within budget. This is a last-chance scenario for the Ticats and the city to land a 20K+ stadium from the Pan Am Games, and neither party is likely to let the opportunity slip away.

[bigguy1231]

Well it looks like the IWS rebuild is a no go. According to this report in the Spectator, http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/477132--stadium-stumble, the rebuild is going to cost between $154- $174 million.

[bluevue]

should have stayed on focus with WH, and the private money (whitestar group etc) would have covered the shortfall and built a fantastic entertainment district. Young would have come over anyway when he saw the full package and what little he would have had to contribute (given what we now know....location etc was not as big as a deal breaker as he made it out to be). Bob Young without question caused this 'shortfall'. Yes he is entitled as a business owner to play where he chooses, but the WH district wold have made him way more money in the long run. Good luck with this now Cats.

[SteelTown]

Only way to rescue the renovation of IWS is if Ti Cats forks over money, private sector steps up, and/or the province forks over money.

If not we'll have a 5,000 civic stadium at the West Harbour.

[thurmas]

WOW this makes the guys who built Olympic Stadium in Montreal look good!

[drpgq]

I must admit that I'm a bit mystified why this is so expensive (apart from the Ticats non-stadium demands, which seem somewhat silly). I actually don't think a Ticat West Harbour solution would ever have been achievable now.

[Migs]

So let me get this straight, Ivor Wynne will be as expensive as a brand new stadium, but will have poor access, inadequate parking, poor exposure, & be inadequate for Grey Cups? :shrug: Wow you guys deserve much better than this.

[markbarbera]

The costs are coming out much higher for all venues across the board. Toronto is also griping about their costs doubling since first agreeing to the Games.

Infrastructure Ontario is sole source for venues and is pushing the pricetag up incredibly on building these venues. Who's the watchdog for this agency?

For comparative notes, it is interesting to note that IO is now pricing a new 25K WH arena at $217 million (not including remediation costs)

[mattgrande]

The costs are coming out much higher for all venues across the board. Toronto is also griping about their costs doubling since first agreeing to the Games.

Infrastructure Ontario is sole source for venues and is pushing the pricetag up incredibly on building these venues. Who's the watchdog for this agency?

For comparative notes, it is interesting to note that IO is now pricing a new 25K WH arena at $217 million (not including remediation costs)

Any idea which other projects are projected to go over?

And FYI - http://www.joeycoleman.ca/City_Council_Live.html - Joey Coleman is streaming the meeting live.

[mattgrande]

Naming rights for the first five years:

City gets 90% of the first $500,000 per year
City gets 50% of anything above and beyond $500k.

They assume naming rights will net $750K per year, so best-case scenario the city gets $575,000 per year from naming rights.

Also, and I'm not sure if I heard this correctly, but I believe they just said the Ti-Cats will ask the city for $2M to help host the Grey Cup.

[SteelTown]

Chris Murray: Ticats likely to withdraw request for $18-mil in transitional costs bc of funding gap problem

[SteelTown]

Any idea which other projects are projected to go over?

The aquatic centre built on top of an old landfill is a good bet.

[dennis1]

Let's just cancel this.

[SteelTown]

I'm sure they'll somehow narrow down the funding gap.

[SteelTown]

Plan is to have Ticats play at McMaster's Ron Joyce Stadium during construction of Ivor Wynne; add 10,000 temp seats.

[markbarbera]

Any idea which other projects are projected to go over?


The Toronto costs have nearly doubled to $96 million for their venues being constructed/updated in TO. The Scarborough pool venue is responsible for the biggest increase, with land remediation costs adding $23 million to the construction of the pools.

[mattgrande]

The Toronto costs have nearly doubled to $96 million for their venues being constructed/updated in TO. The Scarborough pool venue is responsible for the biggest increase, with land remediation costs adding $23 million to the construction of the pools.

$23 Million for remediation? That makes West Harbour sound like a steal! :pepper:

[markbarbera]

... or it can be seen as a stark example of the kind of surprises that we would have been subjected to if the old WH proposal went forward.

[drpgq]

Plan is to have Ticats play at McMaster's Ron Joyce Stadium during construction of Ivor Wynne; add 10,000 temp seats.

Have they said how long the construction is supposed to take?

[markbarbera]

I believe the plan is to start construction May 2012 and have it ready for May 2014. Two seasons outside of IWS.

BTW it looks like council just voted to kill the scaled-back WH option.

[markbarbera]

Main motion by Ferguson to receive report, rescind WH, and notify Hostco that IWS is the site of choice with max municipal contribution of $45 million passes council 10-6.

Of course this is a motion at the General Issues Committee meeting and still subject to ratification at the next Council meeting. Let's see what happens with the funding gap.

[c@taract_soulj@h]

All I have to say is this...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-considers-paying-for-stadiums-with-unspent-1-billion/article1881605/

I guess we missed the boat?

[sofasurfer]

Infrastructure Ontario is sole source for venues and is pushing the pricetag up incredibly on building these venues. Who's the watchdog for this agency?


Very good question. Anyone know the answer?

[fenwick16]

All I have to say is this...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-considers-paying-for-stadiums-with-unspent-1-billion/article1881605/


Thanks for posting this link. I would like to post it in the Halifax section also as there has been an ongoing discussion about building a stadium.

[SteelTown]

Stadium shortfall closer to $10 million than $40 million, source says

The shortfall for the proposed Ivor Wynne Stadium renovation is closer to $10 million than $40 million, and the province is willing to put up the extra funding, a source tells The Spectator.

Requesting anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the issue, the source said the cost estimates for overhauling the east-end stadium include a hefty contingency and the actual cost of building the stadium is much lower than $159.1 million forwarded by Infrastructure Ontario ? and so is the funding gap of $38.6 million.

City staff is scheduled to report to council Thursday morning on the progress of discussions between the city, the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and representatives from the provincial and federal government.

City council voted Monday to cap its contribution at $45 million while upper levels of government have committed a combined $70 million. A city report suggests $5 million can be generated via a naming-rights fee.

Councillor Lloyd Ferguson has been challenging the Infrastructure Ontario numbers since they were unveiled to council Monday. He says per-seat costs for the Ivor Wynne project are wildly inflated compared to previously proposed West Harbour and East Mountain stadium projects and other stadiums of similar size.

“My issue is that we have the wrong estimate based on what they gave us in the past and what BMO Field cost to build,” Ferguson said Wednesday. “We should have more than enough money.”

It’s unclear, however, whether Infrastructure Ontario is willing to revise its cost estimates for the 25,000-seat Ivor Wynne project — which includes a new grandstand on the north side and improvements to the south structure — or whether the Pan Am committee would accept anything less than a fully funded plan.

City manager Chris Murray told council Monday he has received a “commitment” from the province that they will provide extra funding.

“It’s a matter of what our commitment is and then they’re going to look at what their commitment will be,” Murray said.

On Wednesday, Murray met with representatives from Infrastructure Ontario and Toronto 2015, the committee running the Pan Am Games, but was unavailable for comment.

Other city representatives, including mayor Bob Bratina, did not return calls.

Ticat owner Bob Young sent a response to questions regarding the talks via e-mail.

“I cannot talk today, or, I suspect, this week. We are in heavy discussions with all our partners, and are studying all options as I write this, so there is nothing definite about any of the answers I might give you today,” Young wrote. “We will be in touch as soon as the dust starts to settle on the outstanding issues, one way or the other.”

Sophia Aggelonitis, MPP for Hamilton Mountain and a member of Premier Dalton McGuinty’s cabinet, declined to comment through a spokesperson.

If the Hamilton stadium deal falls apart, another backup plan appears to have fallen through. Reports from Brantford indicate that city is not interested in building a smaller venue due to concerns over costs and tight timelines. Only Mississauga remains among the Plan B cities floated by Toronto 2015.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/478404--stadium-shortfall-closer-to-10-million-than-40-million-source-says

[padthai]

Get your poker faces ready....:sly:


Ticats Ottawa-bound if stadium dies: Mitchell

Paul Morse
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/478638--ticats-ottawa-bound-if-stadium-dies-mitchell

The Hamilton Tiger-Cats will be in Ottawa in two years if a deal to build a new hometown stadium falls through, says Ticat president Scott Mitchell.

In a question-and-answer session following a speech to a Hamilton Rotarian luncheon at the Art Gallery of Hamilton today, Mitchell said the Ticats are Ottawa-bound if the stadium deal dies.

Mitchell was asked if Ticat owner Bob Young was bluffing when he said he’d pull the CFL team out of Hamilton.

“I can tell you absolutely and unequivocally no,” Mitchell said. “Not only was he not bluffing about potentially moving the team to Burlington, if this stadium doesn’t get built and if project wasn’t going to come to fruition, I can pretty much guarantee you this team will be in Ottawa in 2013.”

Afterwards, Mitchell hastened to clarify his remarks.

“I’m very optimistic and there is no reason not to continue to get this (stadium) done … But obviously the team can’t continue to play at an obsolete stadium and not have some sort of alternative.”

Mitchell said there have been no discussions between the football team and either the city of Ottawa or people with interests in bringing a team to the nation’s capital.

“The context here is that my point today was not at all to be threatening or negative about this. The point is that I was asked if Bob was bluffing. No, he has never been bluffing, Bob is not a bluffer. He absolutely wants to have a solution in Hamilton.

Moving to Ottawa “is not something that we see as going to happen, but obviously the downside to a (stadium) not happening is not good.”

[geoff's two cents]

Mitchell was asked if Ticat owner Bob Young was bluffing when he said he’d pull the CFL team out of Hamilton.

“I can tell you absolutely and unequivocally no,” Mitchell said. “Not only was he not bluffing about potentially moving the team to Burlington, if this stadium doesn’t get built and if project wasn’t going to come to fruition, I can pretty much guarantee you this team will be in Ottawa in 2013.”

Afterwards, Mitchell hastened to clarify his remarks.

“I’m very optimistic and there is no reason not to continue to get this (stadium) done … But obviously the team can’t continue to play at an obsolete stadium and not have some sort of alternative.”

Mitchell said there have been no discussions between the football team and either the city of Ottawa or people with interests in bringing a team to the nation’s capital.

“The context here is that my point today was not at all to be threatening or negative about this. The point is that I was asked if Bob was bluffing. No, he has never been bluffing, Bob is not a bluffer. He absolutely wants to have a solution in Hamilton.

Moving to Ottawa “is not something that we see as going to happen, but obviously the downside to a (stadium) not happening is not good.”

Ugh - While I'll grant Mitchell some benefit of the doubt due to media spin, I wouldn't have thought it possible to do a complete 180 degree bluff in the space of a single article! And no media mention of this in the Ottawa newspapers whatsoever. Given Mitchell and Young's souring PR campaign I wonder what the result would be if Hamiltonians were given a referendum on this with the following options:

1) Spend whatever we need to to keep the Cats in town at a location of their choice.
2) Demand that the Cats at least contribute something to the process. The feds, province and city will happily pick up the lion's share of the tab.
3) Demand that 40% of remaining cost after fed contribution be paid for by the Cats. Stadium at IW.
4) Demand 60% ". . . . ."
5) This whole process has been a pain in the neck. Build the damn stadium as scalable at the WH, and expand it at (largely) TiCats' expense once they come to their senses.
6) Scrap the idea of a new stadium entirely. Our FF dollars are best spent elsewhere.

My guess is that public opinion has shifted to options 3-6, while the mayor and most of council is fixated on 1-2. Pity city leaders didn't present a united negotiating front to the Cats from the outset, outlining clear expectations of what the team's financial contribution should be, and what their say in the matter of location would be. It's frankly embarrassing that the city has given the upper hand in negotiations to a team whose management is still making what appear to be utterly baseless threats of relocating. No question: The city is fully responsible here.

[matt602]

Get your poker faces ready....:sly:



http://rgh.cc/albums/userpics/10144/SeriousCatAvatar.jpg

(what the hell scott.)

[fenwick16]

That is both the best poker face and best cat picture that I have ever seen.

[realcity]

bye bye West Harbour. Thanks Fred for buying a toxic brownfield for us and wasting 10mil on reports, mediators and buying people's houses.

I told you guys a year ago that there was never a chance that the stadium would be built there. or I think I said a 5% chance WH will be the site.

Now let's get on with Setting Sail plan. What WH should be... mixed-use neighbourhood and retail.

[Berklon]

Another threat.

Just leave already, I'm tired of these ass-clowns. I'm sure you'll get a lot of support in Ottawa. :laugh:

[BCTed]

Another threat.

Just leave already, I'm tired of these ass-clowns. I'm sure you'll get a lot of support in Ottawa. :laugh:

I do not like Scott Mitchell and I would be happy to see him leave, but I definitely want to see the Tiger-Cats stay.

[flar]

The TiCats need to stop making threats, even the most die hard fans can only take so much...

[bornagainbiking]

So go to Ottawa, they have fallen on their ass at least twice already.
Put up or shut up.

[dennis1]

Let them leave.

It's just the CFL.

[markbarbera]

Mitchell has always managed to ruffle feathers during this process, to put it mildly. His lack of tact certainly has contributed to the strained relations between the city and the Ticats. I would not be surprised to see him seeking other employment opportunities once this stadium saga is done and dusted.

Having said that, I think the emotion of the debate has skewed perception on what he actually said yesterday. He was asked by a reporter what would happen if the stadium talks fail, and he answered it. If there is no stadium for the Ticats in Hamilton, then of course they are going to move. Mitchell, among his other shortcomings, is not gifted with political savvy, or he would have known that one never answers a hypothetical question asked by a reporter as it is always designed to extract a sensational headline, and context is no longer a concern in today's media world.

At the end of the day it no longer matters what Mitchell said yesterday as it looks like the stadium issue is finally sorted and we can move on to some of the many pressing civic issues that have been sidelined by this spectacle.

[Mister F]

It's an empty threat. Jeff Hunt already has the rights to the expansion team in Ottawa. Young/Mitchell can't just take it.

[realcity]

Look has anyone ever considered what Mitchell's job is? He was doing his job, exactly what he's paid to do. I would want him managing my company. He's the boss, the manager, he's supposed to negotiate and get the best deals for the business he's in charge of running.

As far as the office space and lost revenue, I knew those were add-ons, just to be taken out. It's called negotiating. You throw in your entire wish list.

[padthai]

He was asked by a reporter what would happen if the stadium talks fail, and he answered it.

What he should have said: "I don't want to deal in hypotheticals. Let's wait and see what happens after Tuesday." Instead he's just continuing to try and be a bully.

[realcity]

That's true, never answer hypothetical questions. His frustrations I can imagine put him most at risk over anyone else involved. BY will still have his team, council will still have their jobs for 4 years and then get voted back in. Mitchell has the most to lose as far as reputation. He needed to hire a PR person to give him a quick lesson before this got as bad as it has

[bluevue]

Just my 2 cents on the vote.... Pearson, Clark, Johnson, Powers voted against the latest motion. I firmly believe that anyone missing from the vote or voting against this should resign immediately on Monday. It is unacceptable to vote against something like this....and for the single reason...if you vote against, you had better have a solution and a reason for doing so that makes sense to keeping history in this city. It is not enough to vote against something so large and important that has ramifications longer than your 4 year stint in the city (or if your lucky to be re-elected for another run). Simply keeping quite on it is sheer weakness and does not explain how you as a councillor plan to pay for renos out of the city coffers over the next 10 or so years and just rely on patch jobs on the stadium to get by.

Should we be checking the concert listings to make sure Michael Buble isn't in Toronto on Monday? Pathetic.

[realcity]

I'm beginning to think Johnson will vote NO on everything. God help me if I start wishing Mitchell was back. She's going to be the new McCarthy.

I don't understand Clark anymore, he seems to be all over the map with issues.

[bluevue]

yah....vote no to everything and get re-elected time and time again....oh...and nobody really runs against you so your odds are even better! I am in Ward 2 and have spoken with Farr already on a neighbourhood issue. Impressive call back time and responses to inquiries. He's new, so something to prove, but happy so far....not that Bratina wasn't excellent in our 'hood already though.

[SteelTown]

Ont. Govt to finance Ivor Wynne renovations

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2011/01/30/ivor_wynne_update/

The provincial government of Ontario will announce later today that it has contributed the necessary financing to make up the 56 per cent shortfall needed for the renovation of Ivor Wynne Stadium for the 2015 Pan An Games, sportsnet.ca has learned.

A source requesting anonymity said the province will contribute an additional $20 million to $25 million to make up the shortfall, which will be announced later today.

"It sounds like it’s pretty good," the source said.

Both the city of Hamilton and the province are contributing the financing for the project, which will renovate the stadium to a seating capacity for 25,000 – about 5,000 less than its current capacity but with major upgrades – and make it usable for soccer to be played there in the 2015 Games.

The city of Hamilton is contributing $54 million or 44 per cent of the overall funding through its Future Fund and Toronto 2015. The province is scheduled to make up the remaining 56 per cent of the overall budget, which is slated to be roughly $149 million to $154 million.

The province has already kicked in $75 million, which means the new overall contribution will be from $95 million to $100 million.

The plan still requires approval from Hamilton City Council, which will vote on it Monday. If the plan receives the necessary approval, it will be forwarded to the Pan Am Games Host Committee, which will announce its decision by Feb. 15.

The Hamilton stadium issue has been an on-going for more than a year and has resulted in a division between the previous City Council and Hamilton Tiger-Cats’ owner Bob Young, whose team would be the main tenant in the facility. New mayor Bob Bratina has worked hard with all parties involved to facilitate a working relationship to make the stadium project a go.

There has been great debate over the stadium issue by the citizens of Hamilton, some of whom support the project and the added money it will cost, while others think the money could be used for more pressing social needs.

[SteelTown]

Media conference today about stadium plans

Hamilton MPPs Sophia Aggelonitis and Ted McMeekin will make an announcement regarding the Pan Am stadium today at 5 p.m..

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/479267--media-conference-today-about-stadium-plans

[SteelTown]

Province commits $22.5M to stadium

The provincial government has committed $22.5 million to renovating Ivor Wynne Stadium, closing a funding gap that threatened to derail the project.

MPPs Sophia Aggelonitis and Ted McMeekin made the announcement Sunday afternoon.

The $22.5 million covers the entire funding gap. It was initially thought to be $25 million, but Infrastructure Ontario has lowered its cost estimates by $2.5 million, so the newly-announced commitment from the province bridges the entire gap.

The deal came about Sunday morning at Queens Park during a meeting with provincial representatives.


Those in attendance included: Ian Troop, CEO of the Toronto 2015 games, Tiger-Cats president Scott Mitchell, Hamilton Mayor Bob Bratina, and city manager Chris Murray. Aggelonitis said it took about an hour and a half to come to the agreement.

“I’m pleased to say we got things sorted out,” said Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Westdale MPP Ted McMeekin.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/479267--province-commits-22-5m-to-stadium

[bluevue]

Dare I say the ??? will be removed from this title tomorrow, and be renamed to PanAm/IWS stadium approved. ????????

[realcity]

awesome news. and good on Bratina

[SteelTown]

Aggelonitis is hoping the construction will begin in November immediately following the Canadian Football League season. Infrastructure Ontario now believes the Ticats will only be forced to relocate for one season during construction.

The city must submit a stadium business plan to Toronto 2015, the Pan-Am Games organizing committee by Tuesday. The stadium will be used as a soccer venue during the Games.

Toronto 2015 will make a final decision about where the stadium will be built by mid-February. However, the organization’s CEO, Ian Troop, attended the negotiations on Sunday and according to McMeekin left the meeting ‘excited.’



Read more: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/01/30/province-saves-hamilton-stadium-project/#ixzz1CZ175WRF

[drpgq]

Aggelonitis is hoping the construction will begin in November immediately following the Canadian Football League season. Infrastructure Ontario now believes the Ticats will only be forced to relocate for one season during construction.

The city must submit a stadium business plan to Toronto 2015, the Pan-Am Games organizing committee by Tuesday. The stadium will be used as a soccer venue during the Games.

Toronto 2015 will make a final decision about where the stadium will be built by mid-February. However, the organization’s CEO, Ian Troop, attended the negotiations on Sunday and according to McMeekin left the meeting ‘excited.’



Read more: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/01/30/province-saves-hamilton-stadium-project/#ixzz1CZ175WRF

Yeah starting on the road for a few weeks plus maybe a Moncton home game in the second season should be enough. Two seasons always seemed like a lot.

[dennis1]

I guess mark is happy.

[realcity]

I'm happy.


I'm not happy that it's only 25k seats. I hope it has temp and end-zones to increase to 35-40k. Grey Cups won't happen in 25k stadia.

But I would take a Soccer Team to a Grey Cup once every 12 years.

[dennis1]

I'm happy.


I'm not happy that it's only 25k seats. I hope it has temp and end-zones to increase to 35-40k. Grey Cups won't happen in 25k stadia.

But I would take a Soccer Team to a Grey Cup once every 12 years.

I guess. I mean either way we got something.

[bluevue]

okay BY. You've got a stadium money now. You've told us that you are investing in the team. Let's not try and wait until we host a Cup to be in it! Oh...and how soon is the soccer team coming? Time will tell.

[SteelTown]

I have the concept plan for the Ivor Wynne's renovation. I'll try and copy it soon-ish.

Summed up....

Brian Timmis Stadium is gone and replaced with a parking lot, there's a Civic walkway from Cannon St to the stadium, looks like it'll be the main and only entrance. Walk of Fame included.

I heard rumbling that the City and Ti Cats will help to fund a new soccer stadium at the west harbour to replace Brian Timmis.

There's office space to the right of the walkway but I think the City and the Ti Cats dropped that plan.

What I find interesting is that it says "Parkview future development". I guess Parkview is going to close in the near future?

Scott Park, baseball diamonds, pool, etc all remains.

[SteelTown]

Here ya go.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/PanAmstadium.jpg

[mattgrande]

I heard rumbling that the City and Ti Cats will help to fund a new soccer stadium at the west harbour to replace Brian Timmis.

...

Scott Park, baseball diamonds, pool, etc all remains.

If these both come to pass, maybe something good will come of this whole mess in the long run...

[padthai]

Here ya go.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/PanAmstadium.jpg

I was hoping for a full-colour rendering to see if they were planning on keeping the Canadian Flag block of seats on the south side....:banana:

[SteelTown]

Probably not. All the benches and seats will be removed with new chairs.

We've finally entered the 21st century with chairs instead of benches!

Hope it includes a new roof to shelter us from the rain and sun. I've been burnt many times sitting at IWS, you forget about sunscreen when you've had a few beers.

[SteelTown]

Ti Cats are now covering the transition costs and guaranteeing $9 million in naming rights.

I wonder what the company/person is for the naming rights?

[tovan]

i hope that's not what the stadium will actually end up looking like because it is hideous... the site plan is ok but the stadium definitely needs some work.

[realcity]

I agree ^ that's brutal and not $115million. That must be just something for the report they had zero time to do. I'll wait for the architects versions that respond to the RFP

[markbarbera]

Council has unanimously approved the MOU officially making IWS the site for the Pan Am stadium.

[markbarbera]

Council unanimously passed motion to review putting a sporting field (i.e. soccer field) at the property acquired at the WH site.

[markbarbera]

Council unanimously passed motion to instruct city manager to initiate discussion with the federal government through Minister Lunn to provide $22.5 million towards building a pernament velodrome. I guess they hope the provincial funding announcement may shame the feds into increasing their contribution.

[mattgrande]

Well, I'm not happy with the Ivor Wynne site, but at least they're looking at cleaning up the West Harbour, and hopefully we'll get some funds for a permanent velodrome.

Most of all, I'm just happy we'll be able to move onto more pressing matters.

[matt602]

Funny, I thought the velodrome was supposed to originally be funded as part of the main funding scheme. I can see that it got bumped out by the thing we see in that horrendous sketch. Hell, even realcity agrees. That's saying something.

Looks like we're getting a generic stadium, 1, 500 parking spots, an office for the ti-cats and maybe a velodrome. Yeah... theres some city building. I can't believe that any Ti-Cat fan actually defends this pile of junk that has been thrown at us. Is this what we're going to showcase to the rest of the world?

[markbarbera]

Funny, I thought the velodrome was supposed to originally be funded as part of the main funding scheme. I can see that it got bumped out by the thing we see in that horrendous sketch.

Not sure where you got that impression, but you are mistaken. The exact same amount of money the city set aside for the velodrome is still there. It was $5 million from FF for the velodrome back in 2009 and it is still $5 million now. The city has not allocated any more money towards the stadium that it had already planned to spend ($45 million FF dollars plus the $6 million or so that had already been allocated to cover IWS capital costs).

[BCTed]

Funny, I thought the velodrome was supposed to originally be funded as part of the main funding scheme. I can see that it got bumped out by the thing we see in that horrendous sketch. Hell, even realcity agrees. That's saying something.

Looks like we're getting a generic stadium, 1, 500 parking spots, an office for the ti-cats and maybe a velodrome. Yeah... theres some city building. I can't believe that any Ti-Cat fan actually defends this pile of junk that has been thrown at us. Is this what we're going to showcase to the rest of the world?

Beggars can't be choosers, I guess. This thing will be built on a relatively tight budget for sure, but that was always going to be the case.

I am assuming that you are talking about the Pan Am Games when you speak of showcasing to the rest of the world. Realistically, very few people pay any real attention to those games and I imagine that only a small proportion of those people pay attention to soccer and I imagine that even fewer still pay any attention to the stadium in which the soccer is played.

[bigguy1231]

Typical of the city of Hamilton. Always settling for second best.

What started out with great hopes, came down to the usual, we'll put a coat of paint on it and hope nobody notices that it the same old dump in the same old location.

We had a perfect opportunity to help rebrand this city by building a stadium in a location that would enhance this city's image. Instead we got the same old smokestacks in the background spewing out toxins for the TV camera's to focus in on. We have the same rundown neighbourhood, that will see little if any benefit from this remodeling. It's been remodeled twice before and nothing good came from it, there is no reason to believe the outcome will be different this time.

The only positive in this whole thing for the area residents is that they will still be able to ride their scooters to the games rather than taking the bus downtown. They will lose their beer money once the city bans parking on their front lawns. Because I am sure thats what the Ticats will be lobbying for next.

As for the MOU, it's not worth the paper it's written on. It's almost guaranteed that a year or two after the completion of the stadium the Ticats will be back at council saying they can't afford it. The Ticats have shown throughout this whole process that nothing they say can be believed.

Once this redo is done there will only be 23,000 seats available for sale for any event. The other 2,000 will be in the corporate boxes and handicapped designated. If the Ticats put a few winning seasons together, the stadium will be obsolete before it is even finished with no room for expansion unless they expropriate neighbouring properties. The endzone seating will never be rebuilt because of zoning requirements and hearings that will be needed to change that zoning. They had to get a special approval to build the East endzone seating back in the 50's when their was less regulation, it will be much more difficult now. Also forget about any concerts or other events. Promoters won't waste their time in a stadium this small and the neighbours will scream until their blue in the face if the city even thinks about allowing concerts there.

All in all this is the worst possible out outcome. There is nothing in it for the neighbourhood, there is nothing in it for the city and playing in an inadquate sized stadium certainly won't be good for the finances of the Tigercats. Compromise for the sake of compromise isn't always a good thing especially when all parties lose. This is going to be a very expensive mistake.

[BCTed]

Once this redo is done there will only be 23,000 seats available for sale for any event. The other 2,000 will be in the corporate boxes and handicapped designated.

I really hope they reconsider and find a way to put 30,000 seats into the refurbished stadium. Anything less is pretty small-time and small even for the CFL.

[SteelTown]

It includes more private boxes which will compensate with less general seats.

[Nords]

On the site plan, where are the 1,500 parking spaces? It seems like there is only a couple hundred where Brian Timmis was? Or does the 1,500 include parking on top of the old Scott Park like they do now?

[SteelTown]

Part of the MOU the City has to find nearby land for the Ti Cats for parking. The City will get 50% of the parking revenue.

If you look at the site plan you can see Parkview as a future development. So perhaps they'll demo the school for more parking.

[drpgq]

Here's the attendance for Hamilton last year:

Cal 25,248
Win 21,408
Win 23,653
Tor 30,319
Mon 23,452
Sas 23,108
Edm 20,791
Mon 23,118
BC 23,913

So the Cats would have been impacted by only two games over 25,000.

[realcity]

keep in mind when a sport team does something like a new home, logo, etc it creates an uptick in interest, in attendance and merch sales.

I expect the new stadium will be sold out most games. less seating and more interest.

Even WH people will be buying at least one ticket just to see it. And those are people who will be probably buying their first TC ticket. They might enjoy the experience who knows?

[realcity]

I don't understand making the stadium with less seats? There must be a plan in order to bring it up over 30k for Grey Cups.

Grey Cups have about a $60mil economic injection into the host city. That's just over a few days... not a bad deal to keep the Cats is it? and develop a stadium worthy to host Cups?

[isaidso]

I really hope they reconsider and find a way to put 30,000 seats into the refurbished stadium. Anything less is pretty small-time and small even for the CFL.

I was hoping for 30,000 too but Hamilton's a small city. The metropolitan population was only 692,911 in 2006. 30,000 is pretty good for a city that small.

Cleveland------2,091,286
Indianapolis------2,014,267
Buffalo------1,124,309

[isaidso]

Here's the attendance for Hamilton last year:

Cal 25,248
Win 21,408
Win 23,653
Tor 30,319
Mon 23,452
Sas 23,108
Edm 20,791
Mon 23,118
BC 23,913

So the Cats would have been impacted by only two games over 25,000.

its still lost revenue

[BCTed]

I was hoping for 30,000 too but Hamilton's a small city. The metropolitan population was only 692,911 in 2006. 30,000 is pretty good for a city that small.

Cleveland------2,091,286
Indianapolis------2,014,267
Buffalo------1,124,309

The stadiums in those cities all seat well over 60,000 people for the NFL. I am not sure that they are valid points of reference.

A stadium with a capacity of 25K would be tied for smallest in the league with Montreal --- and the Alouettes can play home games in a 60,000+ seat stadium any time they please.

[isaidso]

The stadiums in those cities all seat well over 60,000 people for the NFL.


Precisely!! Getting 60,000 for football in a city one third the size is not realistic. 25,000 is very good for a city as small as Hamilton.

[BCTed]

Precisely!! Getting 60,000 for football in a city one third the size is not realistic. 25,000 is very good for a city as small as Hamilton.

I'm not sure how you arrived at 25K for Hamilton based on the size of those cities.

[isaidso]

I'm not sure how you arrived at 25K for Hamilton based on the size of those cities.

25K is what’s being proposed in Hamilton and roughly what football draws in that city. Hamilton would draw more with a bigger population base.

[SteelTown]

What I find interesting is that it says "Parkview future development". I guess Parkview is going to close in the near future?

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/480554--school-board-recommends-delta-parkview-close

Yep Parkview to close 2013 apparently.

[FairHamilton]

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/480554--school-board-recommends-delta-parkview-close

Yep Parkview to close 2013 apparently.

I'd bet, TiCat Head Office, or parking. Unfortunately, my gut says parking lot...

[FRM]

Someone explain to me the reasoning behind going with this choice? Did it all come down to money?? I don't get how BY could whine so much about highway accessibility for WH but not for IWS?? did they even consider selling the land iws is on and taking the money from that for wh or any other site?? this whole ordeal just shows how messed up this city is and y it will take a whole lifetime for it to gain some respectability as a vibrant city. :hell:

[Jon Dalton]

Just, don't ask.

[realcity]

WH would still would have a shortfall, in the tens of millions$. There were too many unknowns for WH. Soil being one, estimates were from $3mil to $40mi. Fred said 3mil the Deloitte paper said WH would fall about $50 mil short for a 25k CFL worthy stadium. A bare bones 15k bleacher set is all that would be affordable, and what's the point of that? Unknown legacy tenant, unknown if HostCo would go for it. no Cats and no soccer team. and just a white elephant metal no backs seats for 15K, what do you do with that venue? Taking up space for good development of WH.

A cleaned up brownfield? What's stopping us from cleaning it up now? We don't need a stadium/bleachers to clean it up. If it really is $3mil (right, said Fred), then budget 1.5$ this year and 1.5$ next year and giterdone. Won't happen, why? Because they know the cleanup costs are way higher than Fred was pitching. I can't wait until they clean up the Rheem lands, 1. WH will have some nice clean land to develop Setting Sail and 2. We'll get to see the real number behind cleaning up that land.

I'm pretty happy with the IW stadium. 1a. History 1b. Architecture (I like Brutalism too, at least I think it should be preserved and not despised) 2. we get a decent new stadium, more profitable for the Cats and keeps them in Hamilton. 3. Hamilton stays on the map, both for PanAm and CFL. 4. I think we'll be proud of what the architect that's chosen from the RFP does with the $115mil. I'm not going by that crappy site plan. Any architect is going to want this job in their portfolio. They will do something that creates a unique look. 5. I don;t think accessibility was all that much an obstacle, they still averaged around 24k attendance. 6. Re: naming rights/viewability -- they are planning wayfinding signs off Burlington St, Main, King, Barton, Canon, Wilson, Gage. Shuttle busses will still run from Lime Ridge etc. 7. We had everyear budgeted $600k just to keep the lights on at that stadium (somewhere around that number), council took about 10 years of that allocated budget that was spent anyway year after year just to keep it from falling down and rolled into a three year capital budget spend. Maintenance budget for the stadium will save us probably half of what we spend now to maintain it. 8. It's THE best stadium in the CFL to watch a live game. So close to the playfield... every seat has a good view, just the seats suck.

If BY brings a pro soccer team here, I think this city will go crazy over it, lots of ethnicity and culture in this city and soccer comes naturally. If only we could get a team in the same league as Toronto, that would be insane rivals, HFC/TFC and Cats/Argos, same stadium!! I would forgive this city for much of its past fails. Epic win that would be.

I say keep going and get a pro Cricket team.

[Berklon]

No-one I've talked to likes the IW site and I'm in agreement with them.

It's basically a wasted opportunity. It's not going to do anything for the surroundings in that part of the city - it's just basically status quo. It's in a part of the city that no-one really cares to see. The new/renovated stadium will get extra fans the first few games just to see what it's like, but it's not going to draw in more dedicated fans. It'll still be the same Ticat faithful that will show up.

Accessibility by car is a big problem still and it doesn't match up with GO Train service. I've asked a lot of co-workers/friends in Toronto about the location and they said they would've checked it out if it were downtown, but they have no intention of going to the current location. Most of these people only come to Hamilton to see a concert at Copps and never ventured anywhere further into the city.

Pan-Am... no-one in Toronto cares and neither will anyone in Hamilton.

The only chance soccer has for success in Hamilton is with an MLS team - which I'm told will NEVER happen. Any other soccer league will do poorly and won't last long.

Basically all that's happening is Ivor Wynne Stadium is getting a big renovation... that's it. There's really nothing else that wil change because of this.

As for the WH, continue cleanup and develop that area. With GO Train stopping at the new station and with LRT hook-up, it can bring a lot of people in. Build a sweet amphitheatre there and bring in a lot of the acts that the Molson amphitheatre in Toronto gets. That's a lot of summer dates and will bring in a lot of people from all over the city and from Burlington to Toronto. It'll bring much needed life to that part of the city... much more than a renovated IWS will.

[BCTed]

No-one I've talked to likes the IW site and I'm in agreement with them.

It's basically a wasted opportunity. It's not going to do anything for the surroundings in that part of the city - it's just basically status quo.

In a city where a lot of things have been on the decline, status quo can be interpreted as a positive.

Pan-Am... no-one in Toronto cares and neither will anyone in Hamilton.

Agreed. There may be some minor interest because things are being held here. Certainly almost nobody outside of Toronto/Hamilton will care.

The only chance soccer has for success in Hamilton is with an MLS team - which I'm told will NEVER happen. Any other soccer league will do poorly and won't last long.

Agreed.

[SteelTown]

Ivor Wynne get Pan Am approval

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/492930--ivor-wynne-get-pan-am-approval

Hamilton has received the news it has been waiting for.

Officials have announced the city’s application for the renovation of Ivor Wynne stadium has been officially approved.

In a statement, TO2015 CEO Ian Troop said Ivor Wynne met all of the Games’ priorities, including site suitability, funding, FIFA-grade soccer features, timing and a long-term sports legacy.

“TO2015 is looking forward to working closely with the City of Hamilton and its community partners to help ensure the soccer facility is delivered on time, on budget and on scope,” Troop stated.

[padthai]

Wow, it's an updating party here today!

[SteelTown]

Looks like the Ti Cats will play it's first game at the renovated stadium on Labour Day 2013.

[NorthEndRules]

If Ivor Wynn is going to host events for Pan Am, where are spectators going to park? Not on people's lawns. Will they buy up homes to make proper parking spots? If liquor rules are relaxed in Ontario like they say they will, there could be proper tail-gating. They should buy up enough land to also add an entertainment district: theatres, bars, restaurants etc.