Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[realcity]

You know what? I'd really like to hear suggestions for how this $60mil could be spent for 'city development'?

Please lets have a conversation about how $60mil could be spent?

Considering City Hall cost what $80mil... keep that in mind. and lets discuss how FF $ could be spent. Because I have no idea. Other than build a new TiCat Stadium, Im seriously at a lost. Since you are all experts, and want to kill any stadium if its not built at WH. Tell me what you would spend a measly $60mil on?

Tell me how you would spend the $60mil FF

[NorthEndRules]

Hamilton should use the $60 million on buying up the rail lands near the harbour and making part of it parklands for picknickers, baseball diamonds, a soccer pitch and an outdoor hockey rink. The rest of the remediated lands can be auctioned for residential and commercial developments. It's time to start reclaiming these industrial lands. The rest of the money and any proceeds can go towards refurbishing the exterior of Hamilton Place, the Convention Centre and Copps Colisseum. These public facades are very uninviting. I would love an IMAX/planetarium. We could use a destination piece like a planetarium and the GTA doesn't have one. I think the Football Hall of Fame needs a better more visible location as well like the pier.

[mattgrande]

You know what? I'd really like to hear suggestions for how this $60mil could be spent for 'city development'?

Please lets have a conversation about how $60mil could be spent?

Considering City Hall cost what $80mil... keep that in mind. and lets discuss how FF $ could be spent. Because I have no idea. Other than build a new TiCat Stadium, Im seriously at a lost. Since you are all experts, and want to kill any stadium if its not built at WH. Tell me what you would spend a measly $60mil on?

Tell me how you would spend the $60mil FF

- Cleaning up toxic waste sites
- Charging delinquent owners (The people who have bought up factories and warehouses over the past 20 years and let them rot so they're now falling down)
- More bike lanes
- Randall Reef
- Tearing down falling buildings
- Investing in local businesses
- New parks
- Waterdown wants a new library

This is just off the top of my head, and all very general. But yeah, I guess a new stadium for the Ti-Cats, with about 30,000 fans, is the best use of this money for a city of 500,000.

You say in another thread "stay away from this city. it's cheap for a reason" but you can't think of anything better to spend your money on than a new stadium for a second-rate football team that hasn't won more than half their games since 2001? Why are you even still living here?

[SteelTown]

If the money can't go towards a West Harbour stadium than it's simple, use the money towards LRT. That's city building.

[dennis1]

This is tomorrow. Wow.

[SteelTown]

Bob Young sending new letter to council

Rick Zamperin
8/30/2010
http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/Story.aspx?ID=1271565

Ticats owner Bob Young is sending another letter to city council regarding the proposed Pan Am stadium site at Aberdeen and Longwood.

The letter comes as councillors prepare to meet tomorrow to discuss that location.

City staff are also expected to tell councillors the west harbour plan may not survive as is, and Pan Am organizers would only fund a 5 to 7-thousand seat stadium.

In Young's letter, he writes the Aberdeen and Longwood location addresses the team's requirements of highway exposure, accessibility, public transit and a commercial-industrial area.

Young adds the Ticats will engage in constructive talks with the city, should councillors move forward with the Aberdeen and Longwood stadium site.

[SteelTown]

BREAKING NEWS

Young open to Longwood stadium

Ticat owner Bob Young is open to looking at a new alternative for the Pan Am stadium, he says in a letter to Mayor Fred Eisenberger.

[SteelTown]

Young set to talk about west-end stadium site
Writes to Mayor Fred Eisenberger saying he’s open to an alternative

The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/news/article/252426--young-set-to-talk-about-west-end-stadium-site

Ticat owner Bob Young is open to looking at a new west-end alternative for the Pan Am stadium, he says in a letter to Mayor Fred Eisenberger.

Young said he likes several facets of the site, which is across Longwood Road from McMaster Innovation Park at Aberdeen Avenue.

“While we have not conducted comprehensive due diligence at the ‘Longwood’ site,” he wrote, “it does present the essential sports stadium requirements of highway exposure, access and egress for stadium visitors, public transit and being situated in a commercial/industrial area conducive to hosting as many large audience events as possible without disruption to a neighboring residential community.”

Young said the Ticats “will engage constructively and urgently with the city to conclude a definitive Pan Am stadium agreement in a timely manner.”

City council sits Tuesday in a special meeting to consider a scaled-down stadium at the city’s west harbour location and the possibility of examining the west-end site.

It was looked at in the past but was wasn’t promoted by the city because a stadium and parking would take up key revenue-generating employment lands.

[SteelTown]

August 30, 2010

Mayor Fred Eisenberger,
Subhect: Pan Am Stadium

Dear Mayor Eisenberger,

I understand City Council is conferring Tuesday, August 31 to consider (among other topics) a proposal to site the Pan Am Stadium at the Aberdeen/Longwood Road precinct.

While we have not conducted comprehensive due diligenece at the "Longwood" site, it does present the essential sports stadium requirements of: highway exposure, access and egress for stadium visitors, public transit, and being situated in a commercial/industrial area conducive to hosting as many large audience events as possible without disruption to a neighbouring residential community.

Our goal for the new stadium will be to create the "sustainable legacy" facility, as required by the Government of Canada and the Province of Ontario, to promote the City of Hamilton across Canada and around the world long after the conclusion of the Pan Am Games. The stadium should bring as many events as possible to Hamilton.

These will include the Hamilton Tiger-Cats CFL Football team, a new franchise in the North American Soccer League, a high performance soccer academy, as well as a number of other event opportunities.

Through this letter, I want to assure you and members of Council, should it be the will of Council, the Hamilton Tiger-Cat organization will engage constructively and urgently with the City to conclude a definitive Pan Am Stadium agreement in a timely manner.

Sincerely,

Bob Young
Owner, Hamilton Tiger-Cats Football Club

[go_leafs_go02]

Count on it. This will be the site.

I prefer it to West Harbour to be honest.

[c@taract_soulj@h]

I would love this site...in a nutshell

[Jon Dalton]

I hope not. We really need jobs in Hamilton. Pro sports are nice, but I'd really like a decent job in my Hamilton future.

[SteelTown]

If the city can land swap for Trinity's old proposed site with the stadium it should hopefully be natural with employment land.

[Jon Dalton]

If the proposal results in zero net loss of innovation district land, I could maybe support it. It's close enough for easy bike and transit access, but still too far for downtown spinoff developement.

[flar]

Longwoods may be the best compromise.

It's certainly a negative that the stadium would take up valuable space around MIP, however, MIP could build up instead of a lowrise office complex to maximize office space. We should also not forget that downtown Hamilton could accomodate dozens of office towers on the current spate of parking lots. Those locations would be more attractive than MIP with better GO service and if LRT ever gets built.

In short, there is no shortage of employment land in Hamilton's core but there are very few sites that are appropriate for a stadium, as this whole debacle shows.

The only downside of not putting the stadium at the WH is the lost opportunity for brownfield cleanup. It seems that government money is the only way that land will get cleaned up. Otherwise, the WH site is extremely valuable and could be attractive for many different uses, particularly residential.

Those who read my posts will know the reason I support WH is because I think it's the best chance for brownfield cleanup of that important location. In addition, I think the stadium needs to be located near the core for reasons of civic pride and identity. I do not think a football stadium will revitalize anything, it will be a dormant monstrosity 90% if the time. There is no spin-off from a dozen or so events over the course of a year. There are also valid points about the lack of access to the WH site (not in terms of capacity, the roads can handle it, it's the confusion of navigating Hamilton streets for out of towners--it is difficult).

I would agree to the Longwoods compromise site because Hamilton needs a stadium and I think the TiCats add a value to the city far beyond serving football fans and the small potatoes operation they are relative to other busineses in monetary-terms. The TiCats are an integral piece of the stadium funding puzzle. An appropriate stadium for a city of Hamilton's size will not happen without the involvment of the TiCats and all levels of government. This is an important opportunity for the city to take adavantage of and the Longwoods location could serve several city building objectives while allowing all parties to save face.

[flar]

Let me also add that the idea of building a small stadium at the WH location is beyond stupid. It would be a complete waste.

[SteelTown]

Young’s interest in west-end stadium welcome: Eisenberger

THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR
http://www.thespec.com/news/article/252426--young-s-interest-in-west-end-stadium-welcome-eisenberger

Ticat owner Bob Young is open to looking at a new west-end alternative for the Pan Am stadium, he says in a letter to Mayor Fred Eisenberger.

Young said he likes several facets of the site, which is across Longwood Road from McMaster Innovation Park at Aberdeen Avenue.

“While we have not conducted comprehensive due diligence at the ‘Longwood’ site,” he wrote, “it does present the essential sports stadium requirements of highway exposure, access and egress for stadium visitors, public transit and being situated in a commercial/industrial area conducive to hosting as many large audience events as possible without disruption to a neighboring residential community.”

Young said the Ticats “will engage constructively and urgently with the city to conclude a definitive Pan Am stadium agreement in a timely manner.”

And in reply, Eisenberger said Young’s gesture is “welcome, timely and statesmanlike.”

The mayor's letter said: “Bob, while the site of the future Pan Am stadium has been in dobut, our mutual commitment …. has never been.”

City council sits Tuesday in a special meeting to consider a scaled-down stadium at the city’s west harbour location and the possibility of examining the west-end site.

It was looked at in the past but was wasn’t promoted by the city because a stadium and parking would take up key revenue-generating employment lands.

Young's letter to Eisenberger is copied to Premier Dalton McGuinty, city councillors, City Manager Chris Murray, Hostco boss Ian Troop, MPPs Sophia Aggelonitis and Ted McMeekin, MP David Sweet and Sentator David Braley.

Young said he likes several facets of the site, which is across Longwood Road from McMaster Innovation Park at Aberdeen Avenue.

[markhornich]

i think this is great. lack of downtown spinoff is a negative, but at this point i think all we need is to keep the team in town that's accessible for everyone. i'd rather see something more interesting happen at the west harbour, something that can be enjoyed by citizens all the time. hopefully they can just make a decision now and get this over with. i'd rather see our city focusing on other issues, we've lost a year.

[matt602]

This is where I thought the stadium should go the entire time. Lets get this damn thing done so we don't lose any more Pan Am venues. Maybe with Young on board now, we can even steal the soccer back from York.

Personally I was never really a fan of the West Harbour, I only supported it out of sheer hatred for the East Mountain site. I think a fair amount of people probably threw their support behind the West Harbour for this reason as well.

[markhornich]

yeah, i mean it was a ridiculous pairing of options. at least Ray's place will get good business on game days. i'm sure dundurn will develop quite well and it will speed up everything that's suppsoed to happen at innovation park. then once it fills up and has a name, maybe investors will start looking at downtown as option.

maybe this was all just a publicity stunt though, to show the city working hard and get everyone riled up about the ticats and test the strength of urban vs suburban voices

[SteelTown]

Recommendation:

1. Hamilton should remain involved in the 2015 Pan Am Games

2. Hamilton’s investment in the Games, and the stadium in particular, must leverage broader community benefits

3. The Pan Am stadium was originally envisioned as a replacement for Ivor Wynne stadium and a new home for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and as such, the Tiger-Cats organization needs to be part of the new stadium

4. Should the Pan Am stadium not be built at the West Harbour, that a redevelopment plan for the West Harbour needs to be moved forward in a timely fashion with community input

The following direction could provide the framework for moving forward:

• The City Manager negotiate with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats organization on a new location for the stadium; and

• The City and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats work together and meet with the province, federal government and Host Corporation on a financial and logistics plan for the stadium

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/C528CBF6-BF4A-482B-910C-471010388275/0/Aug31CM09006g.pdf

[emge]

You know what? I'd really like to hear suggestions for how this $60mil could be spent for 'city development'?

Please lets have a conversation about how $60mil could be spent?

Considering City Hall cost what $80mil... keep that in mind. and lets discuss how FF $ could be spent. Because I have no idea. Other than build a new TiCat Stadium, Im seriously at a lost. Since you are all experts, and want to kill any stadium if its not built at WH. Tell me what you would spend a measly $60mil on?

Tell me how you would spend the $60mil FF

of the 75-ish or so buildings that immediately surround it, buy up every single decrepit building around Gore Park. Have a 10-year budget to hire people to clean up, enforce bylaws and put different activities in the park every day and fill it with varied types of people doing different things - kids playing and art and grandmas doing tai chi and fitness classes and drum circles.... but just NOT the default activities, whether that's drug deals or obnoxiously loud religious services (is there no bylaw about that?!?!).

Fill the park up with just about anything: movie nights, dog-walking, rib-eating contests, theater, ice-skating, pet shows, a splash pad, have a knitting circle for all I care but fill it with a variety of people and a variety of destinations and make it aesthetically appealing so that first-time visitors and long-time citizens go "wow" and not "ugh"

Spend the remaining 10-20 million or so on attracting entrepeneurs to the buildings and cutting amazing deals on those who want to open good businesses and lease or buy those buildings -- including all the upper stories and building a base of residential tenants. Man. what i'd do...

for the stadium, I certainly don't think the Longwood site is ideal, but if any of the MIP stuff ever spun off to another area that needed it more I'd be impressed/amazed.

[bigguy1231]

^ aaaa oookay... even more the reason to build a larger 25k stadium at York. Forget it maan. Hamilton stubbornly insisted on WH and lost.... bc WH sucks for a CFL stadium. That's the end of the story. Give it Up man. If I was wrong then the Ticats would be building there right now as I write this.

Did you even comprehend what I said or are you off your meds again.

I didn't say anything in that post about the West harbour or any other location in this city.

Just for your information I am not neccesarily pro WH as much as I am pro putting the stadium downtown and unless the Ticats are going to put their own money into the stadium I don't really care what they think. Tenants who don't pay rent have no business complaining about getting a new home no matter where it is. I would rather see the city not build a stadium at all, if it's not going to serve the city's interests in the future.

[fenwick16]

Just for your information I am not neccesarily pro WH as much as I am pro putting the stadium downtown and unless the Ticats are going to put their own money into the stadium I don't really care what they think. Tenants who don't pay rent have no business complaining about getting a new home no matter where it is. I would rather see the city not build a stadium at all, if it's not going to serve the city's interests in the future.

I agree. Cheers to the Hamilton Mayor for not caving in and putting a stadium on the East Mountain where almost everyone must drive to the stadium and park in a 7,000 car parking lot that will be deserted most of the time.

[SteelTown]

City and Cats eye Mac site
Young willing to look at Innovation Park stadium proposal

John Kernaghan
THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/252550--city-and-cats-eye-mac-site

The city and the Tiger-Cats are looking for a Hail Mary pass to score a west-end Pan Am stadium.

"It's a matter of weeks to create the kind of legacy Bob Young and I have talked about," Mayor Fred Eisenberger said as he prepared for today's special Pan Am council meeting.

Yesterday, Ticat owner Young breathed life into the possibility of a stadium at Aberdeen Avenue and Longwood Road, at McMaster's Innovation Park.

Eisenberger said he hopes to sit down with Young soon.

The two have butted heads recently, with Eisenberger backing a city-building west harbour stadium, which councillors endorsed -- though the Ticat owner said the team would not play there.

City staff make it clear in a report that this is likely the city's last chance to make up its mind on a stadium location after having had three previous deadline extensions by the Pan Am Games host corporation.

A fourth extension is possible if council votes today to look into alternative sites, such as at Innovation Park.

While a McMaster spokesperson said the university is willing to talk about a stadium on its land, it has firm plans for an automotive research lab at that site.

The location is part of a wider and ambitious incubator area, which contains city-owned employment lands by Hyw. 403, and which is why the area has been rejected as a stadium site in the past.

But Young noted in a letter to Eisenberger the location answers many of team's needs, such as highway access, public transit and visibility.

Parking, a key to the Ticats business model, could be an issue.

But councillors working in the background to get the Cats back into talks feel there may be creative answers to hurdles at the site.

"A lot of councillors and staff believe it can work, but that's from the 50,000-foot view," said Councillor Terry Whitehead. "We have to take a closer look."

He said it might be possible to move some of the Innovation Park development to the west harbour in a land swap.

Councillor Brian McHattie, though, said he had major concerns in disrupting a prime area for innovation, development and tax revenue.

"There might be some situations where people at McMaster would consider a stadium, but there would be a lot of difficulties and this is all at the last minute."

Lloyd Ferguson, the Ancaster councillor who has been touting the new west-end site, said Young's gesture and Eisenberger's response are promising.

He will propose today that city staff meet with the Ticats about alternative stadium sites, including the Aberdeen-Longwood location, and also talk to senior levels of government about other ways to develop the west harbour site without a stadium.

Council does not need to reject the west harbour - though some councillors may propose that - because the original proposition backing it included a Plan B location as a backup.

"I think we should park west harbour for now, and not even raise it with the Ticats, while we look at sites that might be agreeable to them," Ferguson said.

The 2015 Pan Am host corporation has asked Hamilton to develop a business case for a soccer legacy at a potential west harbour stadium.

That could entail a scaled-down facility capable of being added to over time as the need is justified.

[SteelTown]

Sites considered for a Pan Am stadium by various parties

1. West harbour: The brownfield location near Bay and Barton streets has been the city’s preferred site since 2003, but the Tiger-Cats say they won’t play there.

2. Victoria and Burlington streets: This site, which includes the former Studebaker property, was one of several the Ticats and their business partners looked at.

3. East harbour: The Lafarge slag site, which has been for sale, is on Windermere Road near the QEW. It was considered by Ticat advisers.

4. Confederation Park: The Ticats’ favoured site came off the table in early 2009 when city council voted to preserve the lakefront property for other uses.

5. East Mountain: The site emerged from the facilitation process this summer and was aggressively pursued by the Ticats until the night before a report on the high costs of servicing it was due at city council. That’s when Cats owner Bob Young pulled out of stadium talks.

6. Chedoke Civic Golf Course: The location near Hwy. 403 and Aberdeen Street was highly doubtful since it would need Niagara Escarpment Commission approval.

7. Aberdeen Avenue-Longwood Road: This area came up in facilitation due to access to Hwy. 403 and city-owned land in the area. But it is considered important for creating jobs and generating taxes.

8. Hwy. 403-Waterdown Road: Young let this Aldershot site slip last fall, then backed away from it. The location is close to a Go station and a new interchange is planned there. But can Burlington afford the land and $45 million towards a stadium?

[flar]

A stadium built with this facade would be awesome:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/keith/studebaker.jpg

[SteelTown]

Think there's already a plan for the former Studebaker building. City has a hold on the property for a developer to present a multi sports park venue.

Found it: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=181165

[mattgrande]

For those interested in following the debate today: http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/251751--hamilton-city-council-live

[highwater]

I'm not big on architectural reproductions, myself. Maybe if it ended up on the Studebaker site you could justify it as being contextual, but that style of architecture would be totally anachronistic at the IP. If it has to be at the IP, the design should be, well, innovative.

[flar]

I'm not big on architectural reproductions, myself. Maybe if it ended up on the Studebaker site you could justify it as being contextual, but that style of architecture would be totally anachronistic at the IP. If it has to be at the IP, the design should be, well, innovative.

No, I was thinking if the stadium were at the Studebaker site. I am never in favour of reproductions.

[markbarbera]

If Mac needs to find a new home for their automotive research lab, I'd like to see it locate to the former Studebaker plant. You'd be repurposing a historical factory to a use that's the same field as its original purpose.

[LikeHamilton]

The problem I can see with the Longwood site is ownership. The lands that MIP is on are owned by McMaster University and leased long term to a private corporation that runs MIP under the name McMaster Innovation Park. They have their own board and the majority share holder is McMaster. The development on the sites are developed by MIP and then long termed leased to the tenants. The large warehouse that Steelcare is in was to be cut up this fall or early spring and be made into 3 separate buildings. One for Steelcare, one for science research and one for the new automotive research lab and they all have tenants and are full. The owner of Steelcare and the people at MIP have not been talked to by anyone from McMaster or the city. The city did send in people earlier this month to get info on the site but they could not talk about what it was for.
As to the suggestion that some of the MIP development go to the west harbour, the Longwood site is being built to be environmentally friendly and keep the cost down. They are planning or building wind power, solar power, installing ground source heating and cooling systems for all of the buildings. The buildings are being built or renovated to the Leeds standard where they can. They are planning to sell power back to the grid. They will loose all of their efficiencies if the split their park up.
As to having a research park, the idea is to have all of the disciplines and resources in one location. The MIP main building has such tenants as patent lawyers, financial planers, marketing people etc to help get the new ideas out there.

[flar]

We need clarification on the exact site they are proposing for the stadium. I am under the impression that there are at least three parcels of land in the area that are not part of MIP and that one of those would be for the stadium.

[bigguy1231]

No, I was thinking if the stadium were at the Studebaker site. I am never in favour of reproductions.

I am not sure putting a stadium a couple of blocks from a smelly vegitable oil plant is something the city should be doing. We have a bad enough image problem without building a stadium in an existing industrial area. I am more inclined to stay as far away as possible from any of the heavy industrial areas within the city.

[flar]

That site doesn't have a chance anyway, I was just imagining how awesome a stadium would look incorporating those long buildings along Victoria and Ferrie because the site was mentioned in one of the above posts.

[go_leafs_go02]

would it be feasible to change that rail storage yard into a GO station that would be used only on weekends?

Having a Park & Ride at Aldershot for example with a short 10 minute or so ride to Innovation GO Station would be an excellent solution.

I'm talking about the land here:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Hamilton,+ON&sll=49.105897,-122.827956&sspn=0.660787,1.231842&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Hamilton,+Hamilton+Division,+Ontario&ll=43.252564,-79.906204&spn=0.005743,0.009624&t=h&z=17

[SteelTown]

Longwood stadium gaining support

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/252550--longwood-stadium-gaining-support

A west-Hamilton stadium at the McMaster Innovation park is gaining ground with city councillors.

The McMaster University-owned site - at the intersection of Aberdeen and Longwood - is now the focus of debate at a special council meeting.

Ancaster Lloyd Ferguson has made a motion that the city manager negotiate with Ticats for new stadium that includes the Aberdeen/Longwood site. He said the debate is screaming out for a new location. This motion is to direct staff to report to councillors on Sept 15.

"Longwood is a brownfield, close to downtown, close to public transit, and infrastructure like sewers already in place."

"It was a huge breakthrough with Ticats that this site might be okay."

Councillor Terry Whitehead says it is painfully clear that city was driving toward the "edge of a cliff" with push to support west harbour for the stadium.

"These opportunities come very few times in a decade," he said.

This MIP recommendation is an opportunity to move forward, he said.

"This is opportunity to grab success from the jaws of defeat ... to resolve this issue once and for all," Whitehead said.

Ferguson said McMaster are willing to examine the proposal.

"They are very interested, but I sense they would like to help solve this impasse. Clearly they are going to have some issues of their own and they will work through those."

One of the few dissenting voices so far came from Councillor Brian McHattie, who wanted to know "if there any thing wrong with the west harbour site."

The Ticats have not demonstrated why the west harbour doesn't work, McHattie said.

"They haven't opened their books. It sounds like the only reason why we're moving away from the west harbour because they don't wan to go there."

The Ticats did share a critique of the west harbour site, said finance boss Rob Rossini.

McHattie says the vision of the McMaster Innovation Park does not include a stadium.

"I talked to McMaster yesterday, and I had a different response than Councillor Ferguson," he said. "They are very concerned about this. They have plans for those lands."

"I am extremely disappointed about this direction .. It puts the Pan Am games in great jeopardy."

He said he can't support the MIP recommendation.

Councillor Bernie Morelli says west harbour was a major key objective, "but that has not happened."

He said he will support the motion.

City manager Chris Murray told councillors that said Ian Troop, HostCo leader, has responded that it will proceed on a "dual track" and will support a possible new stadium location.

Murray said HostCo will require a report by Sept 14. If no solution is found, they will proceed with the August resolution.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger says the city is closer to coming to a solution.

"We want the Hamilton Tiger-Cats here ... If we can add some of the successes we've achieved with west harbor development and some investment opportunities ... if we can marry all of those together we will have made an enormous gain."

Eisenberger said if a site to accommodate all those can be found, "I will not stand in the way of that."

There is a downside to McMaster Innovation Park site, he said. McMaster has to be part of the mix to "enhance the vision"

There may be parking opportunities that may free up land on the east side of Longwood.

"There is only one road going into Longwood site, but it is on highway and meets some of the Ticats' requirements."

"I will support the recommendation today," the mayor said.

The city will need provincial and federal help to get the stadium, he said.

"We've all been challenged by the emotions of this ... We need to make the right decision for the city of Hamilton," Eisenberger said.

"I commit to work with Bob Young ... to ensure we fulfill the promise and legacy of Pan Am."

"Unfortunately we are where we are, and we have to find a solution."

Councillor Sam Merulla has asked why Longwood was eliminated from the original list.

David Adames replied that facilitator Michael Fenn sought an alternate site and the east Mountain was chosen because it was seen as less complicated. that's because there was a single owner in the Ontario Realty Corporation.

City manager Murray said there will be challenges in parking at Longwood, but "I view it as an opportunity because the innovation park has significant development planned and parking opportunities may be reached through that."

Tim McCabe, general manager planning and economic development for the city, said the MIP district is seen as pillar of city's economic development strategy as employment lands.

"A stadium does not fit that vision, to be honest with you."

McCabe said it's a trade off -- a planned vision for another vision.

Merulla said every site has a significant economic deficit attached.

Councillor Brad Clark says he's concerned about the message the McMaster Innovation Park recommendation sends about the city's commitment to developing an innovation district.

"But I can still support the resolution," he said.

Clark is also concerned that the city will not exclude the west harbor site in the resolution.

Murray says that he has "no intention" of raising west harbor in discussions with the Ticats.

[SteelTown]

Council backs Longwood stadium

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/252550--council-backs-longwood-stadium

Hamilton council has overturned its entrenched support for a stadium at the west harbour in favour of a new site in the McMaster Innovation Park.

The historic 13-2 vote achieved a needed two-thirds majority to direct city manager Chris Murray to begin negotiations with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and the university.

Only councillors Sam Merulla and Brian McHattie voted against pursuing the Longwood/Aberdeen site.

There has been a changing dynamic right from beginning that has been frustrating to deal with, Mayor Fred Eisenberger said.

"We should move forward and explore that opportunity in the next 2 weeks." he said.

"Even if we didn't get perfection, it is still very very good for our city. I'm very encouraged we're on a positive path.".

Councillor Brian McHattie put forward a second motion that no Future Fund money be used at the Longwood site. That was defeated 13-2.

[dennis1]

would it be feasible to change that rail storage yard into a GO station that would be used only on weekends?

Having a Park & Ride at Aldershot for example with a short 10 minute or so ride to Innovation GO Station would be an excellent solution.

I'm talking about the land here:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Hamilton,+ON&sll=49.105897,-122.827956&sspn=0.660787,1.231842&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Hamilton,+Hamilton+Division,+Ontario&ll=43.252564,-79.906204&spn=0.005743,0.009624&t=h&z=17
The Go train will be for all off peak, including weekdays.

[SteelTown]

I was listening to CHML this afternoon and Mayor Fred was on talking about a a world renowned architect came to the City saying they want to build a new signature landmark building for Hamilton. They've done such buildings as the Sydney Opera House.

[SteelTown]

Ian Troop responds to council stadium decision

8/31/2010
http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/Story.aspx?ID=1272569

Toronto 2015 applauds the City’s determination to find a solution. We are encouraged by its clear and unified direction today to work aggressively on a plan to optimize its Games involvement.

We are acutely aware that this new direction may be Toronto 2015’s last opportunity to kick-start a stadium in Hamilton.

Our venue development work for the stadium is hard up against an immovable deadline for Games test events in 2014. It is critical to have the City of Hamilton and the Tiger Cats committing to a co-operative partnership with a concrete plan presented to City Council on September 14.

We’re going to stay close to the activity and will continue to support the efforts with every resource at our disposal. We look forward to Hamilton bringing alive its vision for a spectacular Games.

[highwater]

I was listening to CHML this afternoon and Mayor Fred was on talking about a a world renowned architect came to the City saying they want to build a new signature landmark building for Hamilton. They've done such buildings as the Sydney Opera House.

The architect is Frank Gehry, but I don't think he did the Sydney Opera House.

[bigguy1231]

I was listening to CHML this afternoon and Mayor Fred was on talking about a a world renowned architect came to the City saying they want to build a new signature landmark building for Hamilton. They've done such buildings as the Sydney Opera House.

Who's going to pay for it?

[markhornich]

is this proposal/idea related to the pan am games, or completely unrelated?

[thistleclub]

The architect is Frank Gehry

Cautionary tale?
http://www.arcspace.com/architects/gehry/Winery/
http://johnschreiner.blogspot.com/2009/03/le-clos-jordanne-motors-on-without.html

[SteelTown]

"The potential next stage in its development was introduced by Forum Equity Partners Inc.

President Richard Abboud called Hamilton the “sleeper” in southern Ontario development and said if a few problems could be addressed, the west harbour was a “great waterfront location.”

He told council superstar architect Frank Gehry has looked at the site and would be interested in designing an “iconic” building to show the new Hamilton."

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/252780--two-weeks-to-hash-out-stadium-site

[mattgrande]

Cautionary tale?
http://www.arcspace.com/architects/gehry/Winery/
http://johnschreiner.blogspot.com/2009/03/le-clos-jordanne-motors-on-without.html

Some projects fail, it happens. It's not like Ghery is some new johnny-come-lately that's never built anything before. He has a lot of successes under his belt, and most of them are stunning.

[mattgrande]

Save The Ticats posted this (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs394.snc4/45683_138273199550031_132861506757867_204884_4917787_n.jpg) to their Facebook account last night.

Does anyone know if this is accurate? That seems like a lot of parking, especially since I imagine the Go Train site would be mostly parking.

[SteelTown]

That's way off. The City is only interested in the land WEST of Longwood.

Together with the City and McMaster they would like to investigate building a parking structure not parking lots.

[SteelTown]

City of Hamilton votes to explore potential use of MIP land

August 31, 2010
http://dailynews.mcmaster.ca/story.cfm?id=6929

Hamilton City Council at a special meeting on Tuesday passed a motion for the city of Hamilton to negotiate with the Tiger Cats to build a new stadium that includes the McMaster Innovation Park (MIP) as a potential site. The parcel of land that has been identified by the city is on the west side of Longwood Road, north of Aberdeen and comprises about half of the McMaster Innovation Park. The property has already been committed to research and development in areas such as hybrid vehicles and green technology.

The University has had no formal discussions with the city about the MIP property in connection with the PanAm Games or the Tiger Cats. McMaster takes very seriously its role as a community partner and as always the University is willing to sit down with the city to discuss important issues.

The McMaster Innovation Park is designed to create jobs, to promote new discoveries, and to support Hamilton's economic development. The University purchased the former Camco site in 2005 and immediately began the redevelopment of the property to bring together university research, industry, business and government partners. The city has been a strong supporter of this vision creating the Innovation District around the MIP lands to nurture its growth and development.

* The red brick building at MIP will be fully occupied by this fall with a variety of companies and organizations that value the advantages the Innovation Park brings to their growth potential
* The newly constructed CANMET Materials Technology Laboratory is a $60 million investment that will officially open later this fall.
* Construction will begin next spring on the $40 million Centre for Primary Care which brings together health research, training for health care professionals and patient care.

The western portion of the MIP site that has been identified by the city in its discussions about a new stadium is already committed to the continued development of MIP. This past spring McMaster announced the construction of a new 15,000 square-foot hybrid vehicle research facility on the west side of MIP as part of a 50,000 square-foot, $30 million Automotive Resource Centre and Emerging Technologies Centre development.

[flar]

I was hoping they were looking at a different piece of land in that area :(

As for parking, I'm sure they can work out a shared solution for MIP, the stadium and any hotels. Parking garage please, do not waste this land on a parking lot. Sorry about the tailgate parties, but you can't have a good one with Ontario's old fashioned liquor laws anyway.

[SteelTown]

We can give McMaster the former Trinity proposed big box land and also offer a new location for the Centre for Primary Care at the West Harbour. Centre for Primary Care is the old Education Square proposal that never materialized.

Personally I don't think it's appropriate to have the Centre for Primary Care at the Innovation Park anyways.

[LikeHamilton]

McMaster Innovation Park senior staff are meeting with the city for the first time tomorrow. I suspect they will be coming with a long wish and condition list for giving up some of their land. I believe they will be in the drivers seat for the negotiations as they do not need a stadium there but the city does.

As to the Centre for Primary Care going in there, only a small part of it is there for doctor’s offices. The building will be mostly medical research.

[SteelTown]

City open to land swap as stadium deadline looms
Less than two weeks to make decision on MIP site

Paul Morse, Emma Reilly
http://www.thespec.com/news/article/253022--city-open-to-land-swap-as-stadium-deadline-looms

Mayor Fred Eisenberger says the city owns two parcels of land near McMaster Innovation Park that could come into play in a stadium development at Longwood and Aberdeen.

“We do have some land at MIP ... and if a stadium works at that location, there might be a need to creative a collective parking facility, and that may very well free up some land for MIP development,” he said. “That’s just one thought, but nothing has been fleshed out.”

The city now has less than two weeks to determine whether the site at McMaster Innovation Park is feasible to house a stadium for the 2015 Pan Am Games.

Parking, land acquisition costs, traffic, and the loss of prime employment lands slated for world-class research facilities are all issues the city will need to address in that tight timeline.

Though both McMaster and the city say it’s too early to talk about what’s on the table, the two parcels of city-owned land in the area -- a former rail yard and a public works yard -- give the city a bargaining chip in its negotiations with the university. It opens the possibility of a land swap that would maintain the size of the innovation park footprint while giving the proposed stadium the highway visibility essential to wooing the Ticats.

Though there has been speculation that the city could swap its land at west harbour for some of McMaster’s property near Longwood, McMaster spokesperson Andrea Farquhar said proximity is a key part of the innovation park concept.

“It’s that coming together that really makes an innovation park successful,” she said. “It’s the opportunity for people to work together in close proximity, to come together and create new things and create new things, create new products, create prosperity.”

Eisenberger agreed that swapping west harbour city land with McMaster for innovation park land likely didn’t make much sense.

The innovation park is a key pillar in the city’s economic development plans and is expected to become a workplace for 3,000 people in the community. The university has also put more than $160 million into buying, servicing, and cleaning up the land.

“There’s cleanup and servicing and lots of other investments that we have made,” Farquhar said.

Still, there are several potential options available for the city and university officials as they attempt to negotiate a deal. The mayor speculated Wednesday that the city might interest McMaster University into resurrecting efforts to transform the current downtown board of eduction headquarters at Main and Bay streets into a health research facility.

[Migs]

Great to see that city council has come to their senses, great news for the city as well as the CFL. I think I can now put Hamilton back on my list of must cities to visit. :D

[bigguy1231]

Great to see that city council has come to their senses, great news for the city as well as the CFL. I think I can now put Hamilton back on my list of must cities to visit. :D

They are only studying the site. It is owned by McMaster and if they decide they don't want to sell then the city will be out of luck. Plus they have to figure out the costs associated with the site and many other details. I can't see them getting it done in 2 weeks, at least not properly.

The site of record is still the West Harbour. At present they are proceeding with the West Harbour proposal as well as any new options that may come up in talks with the Ticats.

[highwater]

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/253060--council-was-grasping-at-straws

Land swap a possibility

THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR
(Sep 2, 2010)

Councillor Brian McHattie says some of his city council colleagues haven't grasped the irony of their eagerness to spend $45 million from the Future Fund to cover employment lands with a west-end stadium.

He said there was a feeling of "grasping at straws" to Tuesday's council meeting which put the McMaster Innovation Park at the head of potential alternative sites for a Pan Am stadium as home to the Tiger-Cats.

Councillors voted 13-2 to reject McHattie's motion that no Future Funds monies go to a site the city has long coveted as an innovation and incubator centre for new business.

He stressed yesterday that the Future Fund board still has an outstanding resolution that the money should not be used for anything other than the west harbour site.

It was passed at an emotional July 27 meeting which strongly opposed what one member called "mismanagement or abuse" of public money.

But the Future Fund board cannot block how city council wants to spend the money, McHattie conceded.

He said there might be opportunities for a land swap that would still provide opportunities for emerging businesses which generate tax revenue.

The city and the Tiger-Cats quickly embraced a study of the MIP lands north-west of Aberdeen Avenue and Longwood Road.

That site might be swapped with city land to the east of development under way across Longwood from the proposed stadium site, councillor Lloyd Ferguson has suggested.

Two members of McMaster University's board of governors said the switch would undermine the MIP plan.

One of the two, who both requested anonymity, said the highly-visible site overlooking Hwy. 403 was seen as a big attraction to major corporations looking to boost their image while partnering on research and business projects.

jkernaghan@thespec.com

905-526-3422

[highwater]

For Realcity:

http://twitter.com/EmmaatTheSpec/status/22819416298

[mattgrande]

For Realcity:

http://twitter.com/EmmaatTheSpec/status/22819416298

We don't have time to evaluate one site, may as well evaluate two.

[drpgq]

For Realcity:

http://twitter.com/EmmaatTheSpec/status/22819416298

Ouch. The worst of the four sites in my opinion back from the dead.

[SteelTown]

Seems like it's Bratina that wants City staff to investigate Confederation Park.

[bigguy1231]

Seems like it's Bratina that wants City staff to investigate Confederation Park.

Like they said on CHCH it would get a 2/3's vote to get that site reconsidered. That is not going to happen.

[dennis1]

When the hell will this end?

[matt602]

Seems like it's Bratina that wants City staff to investigate Confederation Park.

Bob, I am disappoint.

[markhornich]

Confederation Park plus five new sites thrown into mix

THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR
(Sep 3, 2010)
With only 10 days to go before the city's deadline, councillors are opening -- or re-opening -- several new possibilities for the Pan Am stadium location.

Councillor Bob Bratina wants the city to revisit Confederation Park.

And west-end Councillor Brian McHattie wrote an e-mail to council and city manager Chris Murray this week suggesting five other options for the Pan Am stadium, in addition to the McMaster Innovation Park:

* the LaFarge slag site on Windermere Road;

* the former Lakeport brewery;

* the old Studebaker property;

* the rail yard near Aberdeen and Longwood;

* a former raceway near Upper Centennial.

Council voted Tuesday to examine the Mac site and other "mutually agreeable" stadium locations after the Pan Am Host Corporation said it would only fund a 5,000-seat stadium at the west harbour.

It's the phrase about additional "mutually agreeable" locations that has set some councillors' tongues wagging about possibilities beyond the Mac site.

But with the Sept. 15 deadline fast approaching, other councillors and Ticat president Scott Mitchell say it may be too late in the game to look at other locations.

Bratina says Confederation Park, which was taken off the table in early 2009 when council voted to preserve the lakefront green space, is "probably still the best overall site."

"I don't know of any evaluation that made it not viable, except this silly reason of green space," he said."Last time I checked, there were batting cages and bumper cars. Quite frankly, that's not Algonquin Park. It's not some pristine wilderness."

Ward 5 Councillor Chad Collins has resolutely maintained that paving over some of the little green space in the east end would hurt the community.

"Is there some element of commercial in the park? Absolutely. And people supported that. But people also emphasized that there's a line that we draw in regards to commercializing our parks."

He added that though he wouldn't want to use green space for a stadium, he's open to housing it on employment lands at the innovation park.

Re-opening Confederation Park would require two-thirds of council to vote in favour of revisiting the site. Otherwise, city manager Chris Murray says it wouldn't fit the language of "mutually agreeable sites" in council's motion.

"Council voted and passed a motion that took Confed off the table, and therefore its not acceptable to the City of Hamilton," Murray wrote in an email yesterday.

Other councillors say they're not interested in reopening the site.

Lloyd Ferguson says he would rather concentrate on Innovation Park. Russ Powers agreed it's important to preserve east-end green space. Terry Whitehead says he's concerned there's not enough time to do due diligence on other sites.

McHattie, who is fighting against putting a stadium in his Ward 1 on the Mac lands, said he's not likely to support the idea.

" The only reason I hesitate is that I'm a little ticked off that guys like Chad said, 'Go ahead, put it in Ward 1,' when I supported his concerns for Confederation Park," McHattie said.

McHattie suggested the other sites as alternatives to the innovation park, which he calls a "terrible site." He says he would "much prefer" losing the stadium, the Pan Am Games and the Cats over making a bad decision about the Mac lands.

The Ticats' Mitchell says though there are a number of sites that could work, the team is sticking to its agreement to investigate MIP.

"The time for examining 20 different sites was two years ago, and unfortunately, we've spent the better part of our time trying to fit a square peg in a round hole," said Mitchell. "Now the deadline is upon us."

ereilly@thespec.com

905-526-2452

[flar]

Just put it in the rail yard at Aberdeen and Longwood. That's where I thought they were talking about when the MIP idea came up.

What kind of idiocy would make anyone consider putting it on the actual MIP site when there is a spot available across the road? If the city already owns that spot, why disrupt McMaster's plans?

[highwater]

Downsizing research hub hurts city's future, Mac's ex-boss says

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/253501--stadium-picture-turns-blurry-again

THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR

Peter George, the just-retired president of McMaster University, has come out swinging against a Pan Am stadium at McMaster Innovation Park.

George says city council is being short-sighted to even consider cutting into the creation of high-tech research centres intended to bring new products and services on the market and provide highly skilled local jobs for the future.

"The innovation park, its future contribution as a catalyst to the economic revitalization of Hamilton, is an imperative, " George said in an interview.

"That's going to be the catalyst for the new Hamilton; it's not going to be putting, frankly, 25,000 people in a stadium nine times a year."

George says carving up the research hub for a stadium will erode jobs and wealth creation for the next generation of Hamiltonians.

"I think it's a really big decision for the city and, frankly, I'm disappointed that council bought into this proposed location, " said George, who retired at the end of June after helming Mac for 15 years.

"I think they're trying to solve a problem that they've made through their indecision to this point."

Mac acquired the 37-acre former Camco site on Longwood Road South in 2005 as a research and development park for key industrial sectors, which will eventually employ some 3,000 workers and students. So far, the university has put about $160 million into the site.

According to Tim McCabe, the city's general manager of planning and economic development, McMaster Innovation Park (MIP) is a "pillar" of Hamilton's strategy for future employments lands.

But this week, council voted 13 to 2 to study the site as the home of the new stadium after failing to reach an agreement with the Tiger-Cats football club over the west harbour.

The city is eyeing abut 17 acres of MIP on the west side of Longwood, now home to Careport trade centre but earmarked for a cutting-edge automotive research institute.

The Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games organizers have given the city two weeks to pull together a study and agreement with the Ticats. If the Longwood site doesn't fly, the city runs the risk of losing both the Cats and federal and provincial funding for a new stadium.

That backs McMaster into a corner. Do they stay true to their ongoing development plans for MIP or kowtow to the stadium fever that's gripped the community?

Don Pether, chair of Mac's board of directors, declined to give detailed comment on the "hot potato" until after the city and university formally talk. They're expected to sit down for the first time today. But Pether, former president and CEO of Dofasco prior to its acquisition by ArcelorMittal, stresses the long-term importance of MIP.

"Innovation Park is the result of years of work and we are building a tremendous, I believe, economic opportunity for Hamilton, " he said.

"At the end of the day, the MIP goals and the benefits it has for Hamilton are huge and people need to understand that."

Pether has put his money where his mouth is. In June, he donated $1 million to Mac's engineering faculty, some of which will be used to create an MIP lab.

While the university is walking on eggshells, George clearly isn't. He says he's only speaking for himself and doesn't want to second guess Patrick Deane, Mac's new president.

But since George was instrumental in the creation of MIP, it's a safe bet his sentiments are widely shared on campus.

George argues if the city pushes ahead with the stadium plan, McMaster should expect "attractive compensation, " both in nearby land and money for the existing Careport building which, he says, is suitable for the auto research institute.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger has suggested the city could swap some of its own neighbouring land -- a former rail yard and public works yard -- with the university.

George says contiguous property is crucial because of research interactions. But a land swap still falls far short of Mac's goals because it eliminates the possibility of future expansion.

"I love football, too, " said George. "But there are other sites where the opportunity cost for building that stadium would appear to be much less."

Andrew Dreschel's commentary appears Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

adreschel@thespec.com
905-526-3495

[highwater]

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/253501--stadium-picture-turns-blurry-again

West Hamilton Innovation District

53.8 hectares (133 acres) containing the land to the south of Main Street West, west of Dundurn Street South and the CP railway line, north of Aberdeen Avenue, and east of Highway 403.

McMaster Innovation Park (MIP) is inside the West Hamilton Innovation District.

The city owns 6.7 hectares (16.5 acres), McMaster University owns MIP, and the rest is a mix of institutional, commercial, retail, warehouse and industrial properties.

McMaster Innovation District

15 hectares (37 acres) on the former Camco appliance manufacturing lands on either side of Longwood. The city is studying a Pan Am stadium on the west side of Longwood.
Traffic

The innovation district is serviced by three key intersections: Aberdeen and Longwood, Main West and Longwood, and Dundurn South and Aberdeen.

"There is nothing that jumps off the page" about current traffic levels at those intersections, says city traffic boss Hart Solomon. The area handled higher volumes of traffic during Camco's heyday without problem, he said.

* 35,000 vehicles a day use Aberdeen and Longwood.
* 42,000 vehicles a day use Main West and Longwood.
* 22,300 vehicles a day use Dundurn South and Aberdeen.

[SteelTown]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4943386&postcount=2

[highwater]

I know it's by Dreschel, but it appeared in the news section of the Spec's website, complete with fact-filled sidebar. I know it refers to Dreschel's commentary at the bottom, but I didn't see this as an opinion piece.

Now this is an opinion piece:

http://www.thespec.com/opinion/columns/article/94636--squabbling-in-the-council-playpen

Dreschel has been doing more hard reporting lately. I think if the Spec puts it in their news section, it should be regarded as news even if it's by someone who also does opinion pieces.

[LikeHamilton]

Bob Young and city official where seen today walking through the atrium of MIP’s building!

[dennis1]

So now no MIP?

[fenwick16]

It seems to me that Bob Young has little concern about the consequences of his actions on the city. The McMaster Innovation Park could help foster high tech jobs in Hamilton just as the University of Waterlo has fostered high tech jobs in the Waterloo area.

So Bob Young is against helping to revitalize downtown Hamilton by supporting a West Harbour Stadium and now wants to take a big chunk out of a research park. And in my opinion, this is partly so that he can get parking revenue from having a huge parking lot surrounding a stadium. With citizens like that, Hamilton doesn't need opponents.

[dennis1]

It seems to me that Bob Young has little concern about the consequences of his actions on the city. The McMaster Innovation Park could help foster high tech jobs in Hamilton just as the University of Waterlo has fostered high tech jobs in the Waterloo area.

So Bob Young is against helping to revitalize downtown Hamilton by supporting a West Harbour Stadium and now wants to take a big chunk out of a research park. And in my opinion, this is partly so that he can get parking revenue from having a huge parking lot surrounding a stadium. With citizens like that, Hamilton doesn't need opponents.

Thanks fenwick.


I have stopped caring about sports.

[fenwick16]

Thanks fenwick.


I have stopped caring about sports.

Maybe I am being a bit too negative. However, on the other hand, I really enjoyed the few years that I lived in Hamilton - I just don't think it deserves all this trouble regarding the stadium. I wouldn't want to see the Tiger-Cats move though. Partly for personal reasons - I want to see my home town of Halifax get an expansion team in a strong CFL. They just have to build a suitable stadium.

[dennis1]

Maybe I am being a bit too negative. However, on the other hand, I really enjoyed the few years that I lived in Hamilton - I just don't think it deserves all this trouble regarding the stadium. I wouldn't want to see the Tiger-Cats move though. Partly for personal reasons - I want to see my home town of Halifax get an expansion team in a strong CFL. They just have to build a suitable stadium.

I was a huge CFL when I was younger. Now I care less but this process has been an eye opener.

[fenwick16]

I just hope that the Mayor of Hamilton won't be voted out because of the stadium issue. He seems to be the one who was right regarding the stadium location but now is being forced into a compromise situation.

PS: When I was much younger and had never been out of the Maritimes, I first heard about Hamilton because of the Tiger-Cats being on TV. So there is a benefit to having a CFL team in promoting the city of Hamilton. I am sure Hamilton could support an NHL team also (however, I am not much of an NHL fan anymore because of the high salaries).

[mishap]

I just hope that the Mayor of Hamilton won't be voted out because of the stadium issue. He seems to be the one who was right regarding the stadium location but now is being forced into a compromise situation.
If the Mayor of Hamilton is right for wanting it, that means the Harbour Commissioner was wrong for not wanting it. Interesting, as they're the same person.

Ah, politics...

[fenwick16]

If the Mayor of Hamilton is right for wanting it, that means the Harbour Commissioner was wrong for not wanting it. Interesting, as they're the same person.

Ah, politics...

I am confused :???:

[bigguy1231]

If the Mayor of Hamilton is right for wanting it, that means the Harbour Commissioner was wrong for not wanting it. Interesting, as they're the same person.

Ah, politics...

He was against a location at the harbour. His job at the time was to look out for the best interests of the Harbour Commission. They are a federal agency and he was a federal appointee I believe. Since he has been elected Mayor his concern now is for the city not the harbour.

The WH location isn't really a harbour location. It has no direct access to the water, unless you want to cross a railyard.

[Janbe]

This location at MIP Will happen. I have a great feeling about this. McMaster, the City, and the Hamilton Tigercats will all agree on this site. The fact that the city does own MIP land in MIP is very important.

[padthai]

As Paul McCartney says, "I've got a feeling!!"

[SteelTown]

I'd hope they can perhaps locate the stadium at the CP rail land.

[flar]

^^seems like a no brainer. I can't believe that the west side of Longwood, with plans and building already in place, was even being considered when the city owns this underused property literally across the street. Unbelievable.

[Janbe]

It looks like there is an 80% percent of the stadium being located at MIP. There is so many factors in its favor.

[bigguy1231]

I'd hope they can perhaps locate the stadium at the CP rail land.

Didn't CP state not too long ago that they would not give up their yard. It's the only one they have in the area. Unless they have changed their minds the chances of getting that land are slim to none. They cannot be expropriated by the city. That land is under federal jurisdiction same as the CN yards at the Harbour.

[thistleclub]

Clappison's? (http://www.raisethehammer.org/blog/1904/#comment-47287)

[AL3000]

A worthy and timely read...

As Stadiums Vanish, Their Debt Lives On

By KEN BELSON
Published: September 7, 2010

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/sports/08stadium.htm

It’s the gift that keeps on taking.

The financial hole was dug over decades by politicians who passed along the cost of building and fixing the stadium
.
.
How municipalities acquire so much debt on buildings that have been torn down or are underused illustrates the excesses of publicly financed stadiums and the almost mystical sway professional sports teams have over politicians, voters and fans.

Rather than confront teams, they have often buckled when owners — usually threatening to move — have demanded that the public pay for new suites, parking or arenas and stadiums.
.
.
With more than four decades of evidence to back them up, economists almost uniformly agree that publicly financed stadiums rarely pay for themselves. The notable successes like Camden Yards in Baltimore often involve dedicated taxes or large infusions of private money. Even then, using one tax to finance a stadium can often steer spending away from other, perhaps worthier, projects.

“Stadiums are sold as enormous draws for events, but the economics are clear that they aren’t helping,” said Andrew Moylan, the director of government affairs at the National Taxpayers Union. “It’s another way to add insult to injury for taxpayers.” ...
.
.
full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/sports/08stadium.htm

[SteelTown]

Stadium talks with Mac said positive

Wade Hemsworth
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/254499--stadium-talks-with-mac-said-positive

Private talks between McMaster and the city over the idea of building a new stadium at the university's west Hamilton research park could go right down to the wire.

The two sides have met twice for what one city councillor describes as "fruitful" discussions, though no details have emerged and none may be made public before Tuesday, when a staff report on the situation is expected to go before councillors.

With just five days remaining - as of today - before the city is to present its plan to Pan Am games organizers, the substance of those talks remains very closely guarded.

The two sides met for the second time Tuesday and are planning to get together again this week, said McMaster spokesperson Andrea Farquhar, who declined to say who met or what they discussed.

City manager Chris Murray, who is leading the city's delegation, did not respond to a request for an interview.

The media blackout is meant to preserve the integrity of the talks, said Ancaster councillor Lloyd Ferguson. He said he has heard the meetings have been respectful and positive, but declined to go further.

"I'm hopeful we can cross the finish line with some form of a stadium in that area," he said.

The city is exploring the idea of building a stadium for the Pan Am games, also to become home to the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, on part of McMaster Innovation Park, in a triangle bounded by Longwood Road, Aberdeen Avenue and Hwy. 403.

It is the latest of several locations to be considered in recent weeks.

Before the discussions with Mcmaster began last week, the university indicated it would be willing to talk to the city, but stressed that it had firm plans for developing the research park, which is expected to create jobs that improve Hamilton's economy.

Councillor Brian McHattie, whose Ward 1 takes in the site, is concerned about compromising the park's potential. He said he is disturbed no report on the site will emerge until just before council needs to make a decision.

"It's certainly discomforting," he said. "Giving staff less than two weeks to talk to Mac and make sense of this is a crazy way to plan."

He has scheduled a public meeting at 7 p.m. tonight in council chambers to discuss the idea of using the innovation park as a stadium site, including background issues of land use and traffic. Senior staff members are expected to answer questions there.

[mattgrande]

So what happens if Mac tells the city, very politely, to take their stadium and fuck off? I highly doubt we'll get another extension.

And does anyone else find it hard to believe that the Ti-Cats will lose $7,000,000 per year at the West Harbour, but expect to be profitable at a site only 4 kilometers away?

[markbarbera]

Every indication is that discussions are going well between the city, the Ticats and Mac.

If the Aberdeen and Longwood site fails, then that's it for a Pan Am stadium in Hamilton - there will be no further extensions.

[Jon Dalton]

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/group.php?gid=149542711736365&ref=ts

[fenwick16]

So what happens if Mac tells the city, very politely, to take their stadium and fuck off? I highly doubt we'll get another extension.

And does anyone else find it hard to believe that the Ti-Cats will lose $7,000,000 per year at the West Harbour, but expect to be profitable at a site only 4 kilometers away?

Yes I find this number very hard to believe. Even if he can get all the revenue from a 7,000 car parking lot at $10 per car for 10 home games (let's assume a playoff game each year) then that would be an additional $700,000 per year in revenue. This is the only possible difference that I can see between the two sites, unless he can convince the city to build the full 30,000 seat stadium at MIP (instead of just 15,000 seat at West Harbour). I really doubt that there would be fewer people attending at West Harbour than any other site.

[SteelTown]

City eyes Aberdeen plant for stadium

Andrew Dreschel

The owner of the former Westinghouse plant on Aberdeen Avenue says the city has approached him about purchasing the site for Pan Am stadium purposes.

Albert Samee says they didn’t talk price, but he made it clear he’s willing to sell the roughly 15 acres that border McMaster Innovation Park (MIP).

“The price is not the problem,” said Samee. “The issue is, if the cty comes to an agreement with the other parties, I will not be the one to hold it up.”

Read the rest: http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/255111--city-eyes-aberdeen-plant-for-stadium

"I tell you, I'll give the city the key anytime they want." - Albert Samee

[fenwick16]

This will certainly be a much better location than the East Mountain and I assume that it will be visible from the 403.

I hope that it goes ahead since I am looking forward to watching it being built. It will just be a short trip down the 407 to the 403 for me.

[LikeHamilton]

The City, MIP and McMaster have been in negotiation with Samee for over a year to buy his land and add it to MIP’s inventory. The plan was to take out all of the buildings and keep the old manufacturing building on Aberdeen and renovated it like MIP’s Atrium Building. The plans for the Frid Street extension are based on them having the Samee lands. Right now they are looking into turning the Aberdeen building into a parking garage for the stadium. There are 4 different alignment plans for the stadium being floated for the properties.
The problem with buying the Samee lands is that every time they would go into a meeting with Samee, he would up the price and everyone would have to go back and start over again. He has wanted to sell for a while but can’t come up with a reasonable price.

[bigguy1231]

The City, MIP and McMaster have been in negotiation with Samee for over a year to buy his land and add it to MIP’s inventory. The plan was to take out all of the buildings and keep the old manufacturing building on Aberdeen and renovated it like MIP’s Atrium Building. The plans for the Frid Street extension are based on them having the Samee lands. Right now they are looking into turning the Aberdeen building into a parking garage for the stadium. There are 4 different alignment plans for the stadium being floated for the properties.
The problem with buying the Samee lands is that every time they would go into a meeting with Samee, he would up the price and everyone would have to go back and start over again. He has wanted to sell for a while but can’t come up with a reasonable price.

I am sure the price will go up substantially now that he knows they need the land to make a deal with the Ticats.

[SteelTown]

Is City's share of stadium rising?

Emma Reilly
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/255391--is-city-s-share-of-stadium-rising
THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR

The city is talking about spending more money to build a Pan Am stadium that's large enough to house the Tiger-Cats.

Spectator sources say the closed-door discussions over the past several weeks have included the possibility of a new cost-sharing arrangement with the upper levels of government for the estimated $50 million extra needed to build a 25,000 seat stadium.

That $50 million is critically important to resolving the stadium discussions because the funding on the table will only buy a 15,000-seat stadium -- a venue large enough to host the Pan Am Games but not big enough to house a professional football team. The city pledged $45 million towards a 15,000-seat stadium in the hopes the private sector would pay the difference. However, with the Pan Am deadline fast approaching, that hasn't been the case.

One of the possibilities to divide the extra $50 million is said to be the same cost-sharing arrangement the three levels of government have worked out for the stadium - 44 per cent for the city and 33 per cent for both the province and feds. That would mean the city would have to agree to come up with an extra $22 million. But since the city's negotiations have been kept quiet, it is difficult to confirm how the extra cost will be broken down if all parties agree to the cost-sharing deal. City manager Chris Murray couldn't comment on any negotiations at this point in the process.

Although the city has been in discussions with the upper levels of government, it's not clear whether the province and Ottawa have the appetite to each take on an extra $14 million.

City staff report to council tomorrow on the negotiations, which have focused on the McMaster Innovation Park as the site for the Pan Am stadium. The city began zooming in on that site after HostCo said they would only fund a 5,000-seat stadium at the west harbour -- preferred by the city but vetoed by the Cats.

Councillors' opinions vary about whether or not the city should take on extra costs for the stadium to be bumped up to 25,000 seats.

Tom Jackson says he could support the extra expense if it meant the stadium situation could be resolved.

"I would definitely keep an open mind if it meant all parties could potentially be satisfied, and we have a win-win-win situation."

Terry Whitehead said he needed more information about where the additional $20 million would come from, whether it's ticket surcharges, the Future Fund -- the pool of money that the city is relying on for its Pan Am contributions -- or a tax levy.

"My preference is no impact on the levy at all. Otherwise, I'd be supportive of that."

Other councillors say they're not interested in taking on any additional costs.

Brian McHattie, whose west-end ward includes the MIP site, would rather lose the stadium than put more funding into a new facility. He also says it would be unfortunate if the Cats didn't contribute.

Councillor Sam Merulla, who has been a consistent opponent of spending any money on the Games, said he's not willing to consider it.

"The new game is now pin the tail on the stadium. The stadium issue is making them look like a bunch of donkeys."

[markbarbera]

Breaking news posted on thespec.com:

New stadium site considered
Emma Reilly
September 13, 2010

City staff are recommending the CP rail yards at Longwood and Aberdeen as the new site of the Pan Am stadium - not the Innovation Park lands previously pegged as the future stadium location.

That’s the primary recommendation of the report, obtained by the Spectator, that will be presented to council tomorrow. It suggests a new deadline - Oct 12 - for staff to report back to council with more information.

“The CP Aberdeen rail yard site, previously not tabled, was put forward since Council’s most recent direction to staff,” reads the report.”Based on a preliminary, high level analysis, the CP site appears to meet the needs of the City, the Tiger-Cats, as well as maintain the integrity of McMaster Innovation Park.”

City staff are also recommending that the city enter negotiations with the upper levels of government to bump the stadium up to 25,000 seats.

The report will be made available to the public on the city’s website at 3 p.m. today. Watch thespec.com for more details.

Full recommendations:

(a) That the CP Rail yard at Aberdeen and Longwood be forwarded to Hostco as the venue location, agreed to by the City of Hamilton and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, for the new Pan Am Stadium, subject to Items

(b) and (c) below.

(b) That the Province of Ontario and the Federal Government be formally requested to provide sufficient additional funding to expand the current proposed 15,000 seat Pan Am Stadium to a 25,000 seat facility as per CFL size requirements, international high performance sport standards and to meet additional land requirements.

(c) That staff be directed to:

(i) complete land negotiations with property owners

(ii) complete Stadium use negotiations and funding arrangements with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats.

(d) That Staff report back to Committee of the Whole and Council by October 12, 2010.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/255653--new-stadium-site-recommended-by-city-staff