Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[Jon D]

.
I cannot think of another regular source of national media exposure for Hamilton.

How about McMaster University, one of the top 100 universities in world? It's not really a source of media exposure, but every single kid in senior year of high school in the country thinking of going to university, and also their parents will have heard of McMaster and thus Hamilton.

I will be dissapointed if the ticats leave because I do aknowledge the civic pride they induce in a certain portion of the population, but it's not like our city is going to slip into obscurity the second we can no longer brand ourselves as tigertown.

[Jon D]

How many times does it have to be said that we LOSE $100mil in tax dollars they are willing to give the city if we agree with Cats on a stadium location.?


That's kind of like saying if you pass up a 50% off sale at sears on a $200 product, you're losing $100. The reality is you just saved yourself some money. I'm glad we're not going to have to pay for a stadium far from downtown. It would have been nice if council had chosen to study other downtown areas that might better suit the ticats, but then again, I suspect since there are no highways downtown (unless of course you count main street...), that there really were no sites in the core that could have worked.

[Berklon]

How about McMaster University, one of the top 100 universities in world? It's not really a source of media exposure, but every single kid in senior year of high school in the country thinking of going to university, and also their parents will have heard of McMaster and thus Hamilton.

I will be dissapointed if the ticats leave because I do aknowledge the civic pride they induce in a certain portion of the population, but it's not like our city is going to slip into obscurity the second we can no longer brand ourselves as tigertown.

Exactly.

I think most are overstating the importance of the Ti-cats in this city. It consists of minimal mindshare (most of which has already been established). There's not much of a tangible loss either. If we were losing an NHL team - that's a whole different matter due to the popularity of the game, the fact that the league is in most major US markets, and that it brings in 4 pre-season and 41 regular season home games as well as possible playoff games.

Although it doesnt effect me personally, I'd feel bad for the fans of the team if they left. With that said, they aren't going anywhere - they have no place to go and the CFL would rather they stay. It's been an idle threat from the beginning and it remains that way today.

[BCTed]

Why so bcted Brayley controls the cfl already he has Harper's ear being a senator and he sat next to him at Grey Cup and he is on the pan am board I believe.

David Braley is cool and wealthy and powerful --- no arguments here. Not sure how you get from there to your hunch that he will work to build a stadium for the the Tiger-Cats and the Argos in Mississauga.

[BCTed]

How about McMaster University, one of the top 100 universities in world? It's not really a source of media exposure, but every single kid in senior year of high school in the country thinking of going to university, and also their parents will have heard of McMaster and thus Hamilton.

I will be dissapointed if the ticats leave because I do aknowledge the civic pride they induce in a certain portion of the population, but it's not like our city is going to slip into obscurity the second we can no longer brand ourselves as tigertown.

It's nice that McMaster exists, but dozens of cities/towns in Canada have universities. Only eight have a CFL team.

You can argue that Hamilton has already largely slipped into a state of obscurity. Regardless of you define that, the loss of the Tiger-Cats would help move the city out of the national consciousness for a good number of people.

[dennis1]

Why so bcted Brayley controls the cfl already he has Harper's ear being a senator and he sat next to him at Grey Cup and he is on the pan am board I believe.

Do you know how bush league that would be?

[Jon D]

It's nice that McMaster exists, but dozens of cities/towns in Canada have universities. Only eight have a CFL team.
.

true...but do you think that perhaps the number of people attending university exceeds the number who watch the CFL? So maybe less relevance per capita, but multiply by many more "capitas", and I think statistically speaking we're still doing okay!

[Urban_Genius]

Maybe some are overstating the importance of the Ti-Cats to Hamilton. But just the same many of you are under-stating their importance. I'll re-iterate again people in Western Canada either don't know of Hamilton and if they do they know the Ti-Cats. The city of Hamilton stands to lose a lot more than the CFL does. I'm pretty confidant in stating that.

[Urban_Genius]

How about McMaster University, one of the top 100 universities in world? It's not really a source of media exposure, but every single kid in senior year of high school in the country thinking of going to university, and also their parents will have heard of McMaster and thus Hamilton.



When you think about Edmonton do you think about the University of Alberta or W(aste) Edmonton Mall/Oilers/Eskimos? Do you think of McGill when you think of Montreal or the Habs/nightlife/ect?

I don't think people often associate a city with the university located in it.

[flar]

I meet quite a few people in Ottawa and especially in Quebec who don't know where Hamilton is, or if they do, don't realize it's a large city. More people know of McMaster, but don't know it's in Hamilton. Some people actually guess it's in Toronto.

Actually, when I was a kid growing up three hours southwest of Hamilton, I figured it was like Windsor or London or Kitchener, and I wondered why they had a CFL team. The first time I ever set foot in Hamilton was when I went there to look for an apartment.

[highwater]

When you think about Edmonton do you think about the University of Alberta or W(aste) Edmonton Mall/Oilers/Eskimos? Do you think of McGill when you think of Montreal or the Habs/nightlife/ect?


Sports fans tend to forget they are in a minority. Ok, it's pretty hard to grow up in Canada without knowing who the Habs are, but beyond that, I couldn't tell you if Montreal or Edmonton have CFL teams (I presume they do, but couldn't tell you for a fact), or what their names are. For those of us who aren't sports oriented, professional sports teams are pretty much the last thing we think of when we think of a city.

[BCTed]

I meet quite a few people in Ottawa and especially in Quebec who don't know where Hamilton is, or if they do, don't realize it's a large city. More people know of McMaster, but don't know it's in Hamilton. Some people actually guess it's in Toronto.

Actually, when I was a kid growing up three hours southwest of Hamilton, I figured it was like Windsor or London or Kitchener, and I wondered why they had a CFL team. The first time I ever set foot in Hamilton was when I went there to look for an apartment.

The McMaster thing does not do much for Hamilton's profile. Many people have probably heard of Bishop's or Acadia, but would never be able to name the towns they are located in.

Without the Tiger-Cats, I largely fail to see what would distinguish Hamilton from London or Kitchener or Windsor. All have universities (in Kitchener's case, the universities are admittedly not directly in the city, but K and W are pretty much one city in my mind).

[BCTed]

Sports fans tend to forget they are in a minority. Ok, it's pretty hard to grow up in Canada without knowing who the Habs are, but beyond that, I couldn't tell you if Montreal or Edmonton have CFL teams (I presume they do, but couldn't tell you for a fact), or what their names are. For those of us who aren't sports oriented, professional sports teams are pretty much the last thing we think of when we think of a city.

Whether you are a sports fan or not, the city's teams tend to be pretty much its most powerful symbols in many cases. This largely holds true even for the largest cities that have tons of other things on the go --- Toronto Maple Leafs, Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees, LA Lakers, et cetera.

What do you think of when you think of Winnipeg? Nothing?

(I can think of nothing outside of the Jets or the Blue Bombers --- maybe the intersection of Portage and Main)

[highwater]

Whether you are a sports fan or not, the city's teams tend to be pretty much its most powerful symbols in many cases. This largely holds true even for the largest cities that have tons of other things on the go --- Toronto Maple Leafs, Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees, LA Lakers, et cetera.

The Red Sox and the Yankees are iconic teams that have been mythologized as only Americans can mythologize their icons. I've never heard of the LA Lakers, so there ya go.

What do you think of when you think of Winnipeg? Nothing?

(I can think of nothing outside of the Jets or the Blue Bombers --- maybe the intersection of Portage and Main)

If the Blue Bombers hadn't been part of this discussion, I wouldn't have been able to tell you the name of their CFL team. I'm guessing the Jets are their hockey team, which surprises me. I thought they had lost their NHL team. Not trying to be argumentative, just pointing out that once you get outside the sports world, most people are clueless like me.

BTW, I think of The Guess Who.

[markbarbera]

Sports fans tend to forget they are in a minority.

Exactly what facts are you referring to when you make this assumption? I would beg to differ.

Even if we accept your assumption as truth, does that not preclude funding for any stadium regardless of location? Interesting position from someone so dedicated to the failed WH location.

PS when I think of Winnipeg I think of Louis Riel.

[Jon D]

Exactly what facts are you referring to when you make this assumption? I would beg to differ.

Even if we accept your assumption as truth, does that not preclude funding for any stadium regardless of location? Interesting position from someone so dedicated to the failed WH location.

PS when I think of Winnipeg I think of Louis Riel.

"sports fan" and "somebody who would pay money to watch a game in sweet stadium" are not mutually exclusive.

Example: I wouldn't call myself a sports fan because I don't watch games on TV, (and prior to today I wasn't aware that the jets and bluebombers were based out of winnipeg!), but I do like to go to a few blue jays games per year at the skydome when the roof is open on a nice summer afternoon.

So whether or not "true sports fans" (as in the ones who only associate a given city with what teams it has) are a minority or not, I don't think the responsibility to make a stadium successful rest solely on them. As with my jays example, when I was living in the suburbs, I went to these games because it gave me an excuse to spend the day downtown. If the jays played in a location more like, oh i don't know, hershey centre, lol, I doubt I would have been as inclined to go.

[BCTed]

The Red Sox and the Yankees are iconic teams that have been mythologized as only Americans can mythologize their icons. I've never heard of the LA Lakers, so there ya go.


If you are from North America and have never heard of the Los Angeles Lakers, then I argue that it is you who is very much in the minority, sports fan or not.

[highwater]

Exactly what facts are you referring to when you make this assumption? I would beg to differ.

Even if we accept your assumption as truth, does that not preclude funding for any stadium regardless of location? Interesting position from someone so dedicated to the failed WH location.


PS when I think of Winnipeg I think of Louis Riel.

Are you seriously trying to argue that over 50% of the population are sports fans?

In any case, its quite clear by my comment that I didn't bring that up as an argument against public finding of stadiums, but rather to counter the notion that most people think first of pro sports teams when they think of particular cities

[bigguy1231]

You're. If you're going to call someone clueless, at least use proper spelling & grammar.

You understood what I said didn't you. This is the internet not some sort of scholarly writing.

[dennis1]

Maybe some are overstating the importance of the Ti-Cats to Hamilton. But just the same many of you are under-stating their importance. I'll re-iterate again people in Western Canada either don't know of Hamilton and if they do they know the Ti-Cats. The city of Hamilton stands to lose a lot more than the CFL does. I'm pretty confidant in stating that.

So you want us to spend 200 million in tax money to appease Western Canada? No.

[markbarbera]

You're. If you're going to call someone clueless, at least use proper spelling & grammar.

I have found that belligerence is often paired with poor grammar.

[BCTed]

I have found that belligerence is often paired with poor grammar.

If you pick on spelling and grammar, I believe you are both taking the low road and straying off topic.

[SteelTown]

I'm getting the sense that most and the Mayor gave up on the stadium and would rather put the future fund towards Education Square.

[Jon Dalton]

I hope there isn't a rush to put the future fund towards anything as a rebound strategy. Let's not forget the future fund was intended to be maintained as an investment that pays out continually to fund smaller projects. Given the historical failures of large scale revitalization projects to deliver benefits commensurate with their costs, I would rather see the future fund maintained this way.

[WentworthSt]

OMG... This story just gets crazier.

So, now the Ti-Cats want to move this thread over to the City of Burlington:

The Tiger-Cats have their eye on a parcel of city land located in Aldershot between the railway tracks and Hwy 403, just west of King Road.

Team President Scott Mitchell and Executive Vice President Doug Rye met with Goldring in Hamilton on Monday (Dec. 27) morning.

Read more... http://hamilton-on.ca/2010/12/news-tiger-cats-want-a-burlington-stadium/

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/compass/camera/pictures/BurlCamera/loc11.jpg
Area view via nearby MTO camera.

[SteelTown]

Ticats and Burlington working on a deal for a new stadium

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/306352--ticats-and-burlington-working-on-a-deal-for-a-new-stadium

Hamiltonians may soon have to leave the city to watch a Tiger-Cat game.

The Spectator has learned that the CFL club is working to hammer out a deal with the City of Burlington and a developer to build a stadium in Aldershot that would serve the 2015 Pan Am Games and then be the home to the Tiger-Cats.

The team began negotiations with Burlington Monday, after Hamilton city council voted last week not to consider the team’s favoured location of Confederation Park for a stadium to replace the aging Ivor Wynne.

Paletta International’s Angelo Paletta is part of a deal to provide $30 million and a prime parcel of Aldershot property located east of the Aldershot GO station and bordered on the north by Highway 403 and on the west by King Road.

Ticat president Scott Mitchell said the team would still be called the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and a deal with Burlington could be a “win-win” for all.

See Tuesday’s Spectator and thespec.com for full coverage.

[mattgrande]

Didn't Burlington say that they'd love to have the Ti-Cats, but wouldn't put any money towards a stadium? Although, new mayor, new council, who knows what could happen now?

[Berklon]

If they want to pay for a stadium for the Ti-Cats, go right ahead.

People of Hamilton can still go to the games and can have that desired driveway-to-driveway experience they've been raving about.

[scott000]

Let's be honest: this was the Tiger-Cats desired location all along. This and Confederation Park.

Under previous leadership, Burlington said "no way". Now things may be different.
---

The way things have been looking lately, this really isn't that bad of a compromise. Hopefully improved GO service will be able to bring people from the lower city by train and from other areas by bus. It's better than the East Mountain in this regard, yet the City of Hamilton won't (or shouldn't) need to spend a dime.

Aside from the symbolic nature of it remaining in "Hamilton", what difference does it make whether its in Aldershot, Stoney Creek, Binbrook, etc? At this point it didn't look like there was any chance it would end up downtown.. of suburban locations, we could certainly do worse.

[SteelTown]

I don't know if Burlington's council will approve this, it'll need their approval first before Feb 1. They are very tight with the public purse than Hamilton is.

[BCTed]

Aside from the symbolic nature of it remaining in "Hamilton", what difference does it make whether its in Aldershot, Stoney Creek, Binbrook, etc? At this point it didn't look like there was any chance it would end up downtown.. of suburban locations, we could certainly do worse.

In my opinion, this would symbolically represent a large step towards the death of Hamilton as a city. The city would no longer have a stadium to call its own and any events held at the new stadium would be considered Burlington events. This would be awful for Hamilton.

That said, I do consider Aldershot to be a long shot.

[emge]

Hamilton's national name recognition and publicity according to a sports team is a far cry from its death as a city.

While I'd hate to lose the Ti-Cats, there's far, far, far more important things that make Hamilton a city and will contribute to its growth or lack thereof much more so - and many cultural aspects besides the Ti-Cats.

Sad if they go, but really small potatoes for Hamilton as a city, other than how often the city name gets dropped and what other folks' first associations are. I highly doubt Burlington will go for it anyway, but at least there's some money on the table here.

[bigguy1231]

According to people posting on other forums Scott Mitchell has said the team would still be called the Hamilton Ticats. If that is the case it is a win, win situation for the city. The expense of building the stadium would be shifted to the city of Burlington while the city of Hamilton would still get the benefits of them being called the Hamilton Ticats. It would also have the double benefit of solidifying Burlington's status as a suburb of Hamilton.

Do I think it's going to happen, not likely. Burlington council is reeling from the expense of paying for their Arts Centre and the problem plagued Pier. They are just barely able to pay for them. Where are they going to get the money to pay for their share of the stadium and the infrastructure upgrades needed to get people to that site. They are not in a very good financial position now, how are they going to get $50-$100 million together to build this.

[bigguy1231]

Here's a link to the Burlington Post Article.

http://www.insidehalton.com/community/burlington/article/921901

[BCTed]

Hamilton's national name recognition and publicity according to a sports team is a far cry from its death as a city.

While I'd hate to lose the Ti-Cats, there's far, far, far more important things that make Hamilton a city and will contribute to its growth or lack thereof much more so - and many cultural aspects besides the Ti-Cats.

Sad if they go, but really small potatoes for Hamilton as a city, other than how often the city name gets dropped and what other folks' first associations are. I highly doubt Burlington will go for it anyway, but at least there's some money on the table here.

We have talked about external name recognition a fair bit, but sports teams represent other intangible but real benefits, ex. the Tiger-Cats are one of the only real unifying factors and rallying points for the citizens of Hamilton. I can't really think of another example in which the bulk of the community gets together to back a common cause in the name of the city. A move to Burlington would almost certainly dampen this effect.

[markbarbera]

Putting aside the impact of relocating the Ticats, this city loses out big time by failing to replace aging stadium infrastructure that would have been paid mainly from the coffers of upper levels of government. IWS is at end of life and the city can't afford to replace it (or repair it) on its own. This is a lost opportunity of monumental proportions.

On top of that, Hamilton loses out on being a significant player in the Pan Am Games and all the ancillary investment related to that. Not to mention the lost national and international exposure a major sporting event brings with it. With the stadium gone, the new cycling facility is all more likely to follow it out now too, seeing as Hostco is looking to cluster new facilities together . Hamilton was originally poised to be a major player in these Games and now we'll barely be a footnote in the Hostco plan. The entire fiasco leaves a black mark on this city and it will be some time before Hamilton is given serious consideration by any major sporting event looking for a host.

The Sport and Entertainment Precinct that should have been on Hamilton soil (be it at Confed Park or the Aberdeen site) and the related property tax revenues that should have been going into Hamilton coffers will now be Burlington's to claim. Anyone that sees this as a win for Hamilton is either in denial or simply does not see the big picture at play here.

[sil]

Look At All The Cats Scatter - Interesting Who Replys To What????

[thurmas]

I think you guys are going a little crazy over the ti-cats moving all the way to what Burlington. Imagine if here in Winnipeg the Bombers moved to Steinbach Manitoba it would still be the Winnipeg Blue Bombers because Steinbach is just a bedroom community near Winnipeg. Because so many towns in the horseshoe are so close together sometimes it makes sense for these kinds of deals.The Giants and Jets play in New Jersey but they are stll the New York teams!

[SteelTown]

The land is closer to Hamilton than Burlington. If this does go ahead I foresee another RBG situation. The RBG is in Aldershot yet Hamilton gives more funding annually to the organization than Burlington does. The Ti Cats could have two sugar daddies.

Perhaps Mayor Bratina should get a staff report in trading Flamborough to Burlington and Aldershot to Hamilton.

[Migs]

According to people posting on other forums Scott Mitchell has said the team would still be called the Hamilton Ticats. If that is the case it is a win, win situation for the city. The expense of building the stadium would be shifted to the city of Burlington while the city of Hamilton would still get the benefits of them being called the Hamilton Ticats. It would also have the double benefit of solidifying Burlington's status as a suburb of Hamilton.

Do I think it's going to happen, not likely. Burlington council is reeling from the expense of paying for their Arts Centre and the problem plagued Pier. They are just barely able to pay for them. Where are they going to get the money to pay for their share of the stadium and the infrastructure upgrades needed to get people to that site. They are not in a very good financial position now, how are they going to get $50-$100 million together to build this.
Are you saying its a 'win' for the city of Hamilton to be looked at country-wide as a freeloader? No wonder that disfunctional council was voted in. :rolleyes:

[BCTed]

The land is closer to Hamilton than Burlington. If this does go ahead I foresee another RBG situation. The RBG is in Aldershot yet Hamilton gives more funding annually to the organization than Burlington does. The Ti Cats could have two sugar daddies.

Perhaps Mayor Bratina should get a staff report in trading Flamborough to Burlington and Aldershot to Hamilton.

The Royal Botanical Gardens headquarters are in Burlington, but the actual RBG lands are in both Hamilton and Burlington. I can't see the city of Hamilton helping fund a stadium located in Burlington.

[thurmas]

The Miami Dolphins play in Fort Lauderdale, The Dallas Cowboys play in Arlington, The Ottawa Senators Play in Kanata, The NY Jets and Giants in New Jersey this is no big deal if they move to Burlington!

[BCTed]

I think you guys are going a little crazy over the ti-cats moving all the way to what Burlington. Imagine if here in Winnipeg the Bombers moved to Steinbach Manitoba it would still be the Winnipeg Blue Bombers because Steinbach is just a bedroom community near Winnipeg. Because so many towns in the horseshoe are so close together sometimes it makes sense for these kinds of deals.The Giants and Jets play in New Jersey but they are stll the New York teams!

The move of the football teams to New Jersey was not without a great deal of controversy.

In the cases of Steinbach and New Jersey, there is no doubt that the cities propping up and hosting the teams would be Winnipeg and New York.

In the case of Hamilton, you could almost argue that it is becoming a bedroom community (or even a non-community) and you could argue that Burlington is more a Toronto suburb than a Hamilton suburb.

But again, I very much doubt that anything concrete ever happens on the Burlington front.

[BCTed]

The Miami Dolphins play in Fort Lauderdale, The Dallas Cowboys play in Arlington, The Ottawa Senators Play in Kanata, The NY Jets and Giants in New Jersey this is no big deal if they move to Burlington!

The Miami Dolphins play in Miami Gardens.

All of the above cities are within the metro areas of the name cities.

Burlington is within Hamilton's CMA, but it is arguably not part of Metro Hamilton.

[thurmas]

Where else can the ti-cats go there is no site in Hamilton they can agree upon with the city not one. Also the Bills Ralph Wilson stadium is outside of Buffalo as well so teams can have homes near the city they call home. Is it ideal no but it does work!

[drpgq]

Where else can the ti-cats go there is no site in Hamilton they can agree upon with the city not one. Also the Bills Ralph Wilson stadium is outside of Buffalo as well so teams can have homes near the city they call home. Is it ideal no but it does work!

I'm pretty sure if Buffalo could do it over again they would much prefer the Bills play somewhere downtown.

I can't really see Burlington going for this. It will probably end up like the CP site did for Hamilton, staff looks into it, discovers there's way more costs than the anticipated, angry low tax loving Burlingtonians go crazy. Didn't the new group of politicians get voted in over the Pier silliness?

What mystifies me is what is in it for Paletta? Wouldn't there be more money to be made from the land via subdivisions?

[WentworthSt]

It may not be "Metro Hamilton", but it's not like driving to Landover, Maryland to see Washington play... There are further places considered "in Hamilton".

Since Burlington drops off their homeless in Hamilton (they explain we have the resources here to help)... Why not drop off a future tax-burden like this out there?

As a ward 3 resident, the only thing we see out of Ivor Wynn these days is the under-the-table lawn-parking. There really is no modern development here that even takes advantage of the stadium; people leave the area ASAP after the game.

IMHO, If you can't put it on a shoreline, then these facilities belong out in the suburbs, at an edge of town. The Aldershot location is only "not Hamilton" by municipal technicality; I'm sure anyone not from Hamilton is thinking "How is between Burlington and the city not considered Hamilton?"

[mishap]

Burlington is within Hamilton's CMA, but it is arguably not part of Metro Hamilton.
You can pretty much draw a line north-south from IKEA to divide Burlington into Hamilton and Toronto districts. Aldershot is pretty strongly tied to Hamilton, though less so in recent years (and maybe even less in years to come with the new ramps along the 403). Interestingly, Francis Rd - or very near there - was the old eastern limit of East Flamborough Township.

The Aldershot-Waterdown area is a transition zone. It doesn't totally feel like it's a part of either Hamilton or Burlington. Only street signage really tells you which side of the line you're on.

[WentworthSt]

http://hamilton-on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/map-aldershot_stadium_site_burlington-450x.jpg

CHML's Rick Zamperin reports, "Hamilton's mayor says he doesn't blame the Tiger-Cats for looking at a possible move to Burlington."

Bob Bratina told CHML News it "hurts to think of the team moving across a boundary, into another jurisdiction."

But Bratina says it's not like the Brooklyn Dodgers moving to Los Angeles. He says city councillors who thought the Ticats where bluffing about relocating can now see that the team is serious.

The Tiger-Cats have met with Burlington mayor Rick Goldring and a developer to investigate a possible stadium just east of the Aldershot GO station. The stadium would serve the 2015 Pan Am Games and then be the home of the Ticats.

The meeting came after Hamilton city council voted last week not to consider the team’s favoured location of Confederation Park for a stadium to replace the aging Ivor Wynne.

Goldring plans to ask city staff on January 6th to prepare a report on the stadium project.

Hamilton councillors still have until February 1st to notify the 2015 Pan Am organizing committee about their stadium plans.

[bigguy1231]

Are you saying its a 'win' for the city of Hamilton to be looked at country-wide as a freeloader? No wonder that disfunctional council was voted in. :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone in this country is going to think anything about it. They won't know the difference, the team will still be called the Hamilton Tiger Cats. Burlington is Hamilton's industrial suburb. It is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

[Migs]

I don't think anyone in this country is going to think anything about it. They won't know the difference, the team will still be called the Hamilton Tiger Cats. Burlington is Hamilton's industrial suburb. It is a mutually beneficial arrangement.
Really? because that is what I am thinking, and I am only one of thousands of CFL fans across the country that are following this story. Hamilton has become a punchline because of this debacle, and that is unfortunate because I know its a good city with alot of great people.

That said, if Burlington's city council is smart, they will demand the Ticats change their name to the Burlington Ticats before one cent of municipal dollars are spent on that stadium.

[bigguy1231]

Really? because that is what I am thinking, and I am only one of thousands of CFL fans across the country that are following this story. Hamilton has become a punchline because of this debacle, and that is unfortunate because I know its a good city with alot of great people.

That said, if Burlington's city council is smart, they will demand the Ticats change their name to the Burlington Ticats before one cent of municipal dollars are spent on that stadium.

Burlington council is going to have no part of this deal, they can't afford it. So any talk of a name change is premature.

[realcity]

The land is closer to Hamilton than Burlington. If this does go ahead I foresee another RBG situation. The RBG is in Aldershot yet Hamilton gives more funding annually to the organization than Burlington does. The Ti Cats could have two sugar daddies.

Perhaps Mayor Bratina should get a staff report in trading Flamborough to Burlington and Aldershot to Hamilton.

I really like that idea of a land swap. Flamboro for Aldershot.

Flamboro is more aligned with Burlington and Aldershot is with Hamilton. Actually the park (can't think of the name, it has a marina and beautiful grounds, the HPO does Quartets in the Park) is actually Hamilton land, they lease to Burlington for $1 a year as long as they maintain it.

This is a great idea Steel. I had to chime in. Bratina could negotiate that, we'd get rid of the de-amalagmation argument (since it's really Flam that wants out). And Aldershot is not really considered Burlington by the "other" Burlington residents from Brant onwards. I've actually heard Burlingtonians refer to Aldershot as "the poor area of Burlington". Amazing I know.

[BCTed]

. Actually the park (can't think of the name, it has a marina and beautiful grounds, the HPO does Quartets in the Park) is actually Hamilton land, they lease to Burlington for $1 a year as long as they maintain it.


LaSalle Park.

[SteelTown]

Ticats president Scott Mitchell issued the following statement Tuesday:


"We have spent almost one year working with the City of Hamilton to find a suitable location for a "legacy" stadium that would house Pan American soccer games and become the new home of the Tiger-Cats, with no success.

The Tiger-Cats continued to work with the City of Hamilton, reviewing every site that would work as a location for a successful stadium.

The Aldershot property is three kilometers from Hamilton and is convenient for transit and GO users as well as the 80% of fans who travel to our games by car.

We believe the proposed Aldershot location, being on the municipal boundary of Hamilton and Burlington and accessible by both GO Trains and major highways, will satisfy HostCo's requirements for soccer in Western Ontario.

In the longer term, the stadium would become a multi-sport centre of excellence for soccer and other high-performance sports.

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

The British Empire Games provided the same stimulus for the construction of what is now Ivor Wynne Stadium almost 80 years ago.

A similar opportunity exists today for a dynamic, public/private partnership stadium that could serve the needs of the Hamilton and Burlington community for decades.

Our goal remains to keep the franchise in this community and we are working hard to do that."

[BCTed]

Ticats president Scott Mitchell issued the following statement Tuesday:


I am not a fan of Scott Mitchell.

[dennis1]

Are you saying its a 'win' for the city of Hamilton to be looked at country-wide as a freeloader? No wonder that disfunctional council was voted in. :rolleyes:

No, because they will still be the Hamilton Tiger Cats(the team said that)

So Migs, tell us why we should spend money on a team that only has lost it in their history. In fact, why should Burlington?

[dennis1]

The Miami Dolphins play in Fort Lauderdale, The Dallas Cowboys play in Arlington, The Ottawa Senators Play in Kanata, The NY Jets and Giants in New Jersey this is no big deal if they move to Burlington!

Miami Dolphins play in Miami Gardens.

All forgetten in this is that Burlington is part of the GTA.

[SteelTown]

Bratina calls Burlington “the next best thing”

Emma Reilly
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/306727--bratina-calls-burlington-the-next-best-thing

Mayor Bob Bratina says he’s disappointed, but not surprised, that the Tiger Cats are considering moving to Aldershot.

“The Tiger-Cats are just doing their due diligence,” he said. “It shouldn’t have come as a surprise to anybody.”

The mayor also says his council colleagues are to blame for forcing the franchise to look beyond Hamilton’s borders.

“Unfortunately, council couldn’t come up with a viable plan that’s acceptable to the Tiger-Cats,” he said. “Council seems to have expressed a disinterest in doing anything other than the west harbour.”

The Hamilton Tiger-Cats say they have a possible deal in place with Paletta International to build a stadium beside the Aldershot GO Station, bounded by Highway 403, King Road and Waterdown Road. In a statement, team president Scott Mitchell pointed out that the site is only three kilometres from Hamilton “and is convenient for transit and GO users as well as the 80 per cent of fans who travel to our games by car.”

Bratina says Hamilton will continue to work on the file until the Feb. 1 deadline imposed by the Pan Am Host Corporation. However, if Hamilton can’t find a site, he says Burlington is “the next best thing.”

“You can enjoy your football team, regrettably not within the Hamilton boundary, but we have to protect against other initiatives that could come from Milton, Ottawa and Halifax. That would be a disaster,” he said. “I don’t get the sense of loss as much as I would if they went to Moncton.”

Bratina called an emergency council meeting last week after the city learned it would cost $70 to $90 million to purchase the CP rail yards at Aberdeen Avenue and Longwood Road for a stadium. Bratina introduced a motion to investigate Confederation Park instead, which failed on a 9-6 vote.

If the city loses the Ticats, the $45 million from the Future Fund could be used for other projects in Hamilton, Bratina said. He specifically mentioned partnering with McMaster University to build a proposed faculty of family medicine, building James Street and east-end GO stations, and developing the west harbour lands.

“My job is to say ‘What’s next? What now?’” he said. “There are lots of projects that we’re working on that would certainly be eligible.”

Bratina said he will meet with Burlington Mayor Rick Goldring Wednesday to discuss the situation.

“I’m as sick of this as everybody else in terms of not going to be able to get on with this,” he said. “What more can I do? I can’t just whine away.”

[geoff's two cents]

I can't really think of another example in which the bulk of the community gets together to back a common cause in the name of the city.

Depends I guess on which community you're referring to. The monthly art crawls, together with the city's wider arts community and James North generally, has done quite a bit in terms of city (re)branding and community involvement.

While I don't have any numbers at hand, I'd also be curious to know how yearly art crawl attendance compares to yearly Ti-Cat game attendance. Assuming there is a (significant?) gap, my guess is that it's narrowing.

Bottom line: Losing a financial sink-hole of a football team is by no means the end of the world for Hamilton.

[thurmas]

3 km away wow that's like what 5, 10 mintues away from Hamilton oh no the sky is falling!

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^ I don't think you truly understand the significance of the Ti-Cats potentially moving to Burlington. They've been draining us of our assets for decades. This would be one final twist of the knife.

[bigguy1231]

Here's an interesting article:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/306705--cfl-backs-aldershot-site


Why is it that Hamilton has to invest $45 million in a stadium to get a $56 million investment from Hostco, while Burlington will only have to invest $10 million to get $100 million. Even if you add the $30 million investment from Paletta it is still only a $40 million investment and yet they would get $44 million more out of Hostco than the City of Hamilton will. They told us there was no more money and yet Burlington will get more.

I will be asking my councillor why we are once again being held to a different standard. It seems that this city is subject to one set of rules while everyone else is given another rulebook. Our councillors better be demanding an explanation if this is the case.

[Jon Dalton]

Is this a joke?

[bigguy1231]

Is this a joke?

I was thinking the same thing when I read it.

I just emailed my councillor the article and asked him if he could get a public clarification from Ian Troop.

[markbarbera]

On the question of funding, first let's be clear that the numbers being bandied about right now are entirely speculative seeing that Hostco has not even endorsed the proposed Aldershot location.

Having said that, there is a simple answer to the question why additional funds are possible from the Feds and province. There is significant private funding being proposed for the Aldershot location. Several months ago the Feds said they would only consider additional stadium funding if more private investment was brought to the table. Hamilton locations could not land any private funding. The Burlington location is having the land donated plus an additional $30 million in private funding. So there is the difference.

The stadium was always Hamilton's to lose and council has once again lived up to its reputation, despite Bratina's best efforts to drag councillors into reality. Therein lies the reason why Hamilton consistently fails to move forward: deadwood councillors who are motivated solely by self-interest.

[dennis1]

3 km away wow that's like what 5, 10 mintues away from Hamilton oh no the sky is falling!

I have to agree, this is not a big deal.

[dennis1]

mark we just voted for a new council.

[markbarbera]

mark we just voted for a new council.

We did just vote. And returned basically the same deadwood council. So yeah we get what we deserve.

[bigguy1231]

Mark,

You can try to spin it anyway you want. The fact of the matter is governments do not and should not be playing favorourites. If these numbers are what they have been offered then our local elected officials should be screaming. Before you say it's not government, it's Hostco, Hostco is a government agency full of government appointees.

The private investment being offered should be over and above what Burlington is willing to invest and the upper level funding should be proportional to what Burlington is investing. If Hamilton was offered $2 for every $1 we were willing to invest then the formula should be the same for them or any other city.

As for Bratina, he is a buffoon and a lame duck mayor who does not speak for the councillors or the majority of citizens of this city. Councillors do not like the man and have no confidence in his abilities. After what he said yesterday about council, he will be lucky to get a budget for his office.

[markbarbera]

As reported on 900chml.com:

Troop: Burlington has a lot of work to do
Rick Zamperin
12/28/2010


Ian Troop says Burlington has a lot of work to do before submitting a plan to build a stadium for the Ticats and the Pan Am Games.

The CEO of the 2015 Games says Burlington officials have until February 1st to get their plan together.

And he says the city's stadium proposal must meet the same criteria used for Hamilton.

Troop says Mississauga, Brampton and Markham have shown interest in building a stadium, although Oshawa has bowed out.

He says the planning and construction of 48 of the 50 Pan Am venues are on track.

The only two projects lagging behind are Hamilton's stadium and velodrome projects.

On the velodrome front, Troop says local officials are eyeing a couple of locations, although he wouldn't say where in Hamilton.

http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/Story.aspx?ID=1334148

[SteelTown]

Just so you know this Aldershot land is where they wanted to relocate the Hamilton Bulldogs. They have a plan to build a 9,000 hockey arena.

[mattgrande]

http://twitter.com/#!/MariannMeedWard

Marianne Meed Ward (Burlington's Ward 2 councillor) is ripping this thing to shreds on twitter.

[dennis1]

Good. This won't happen.

[bigguy1231]

According to the mayor today, Hamilton is still the site of choice for the stadium.

All the city has to do to derail this Aldershot proposal is, confirm their choice of the West Harbour, and tell Hostco we will take the 6000 seat soccer stadium in that location in conjunction with the velodrome. Hostco only needs 1 stadium. The Ticats would be out of luck.

If that were to happen Hostco would have a hard time trying to justify spending millions more to build a stadium for a professional sports team. Especially when the need for that stadium would no longer exist.

[markbarbera]

Why would the city waste $45m in FF dollars on a 6k seat stadium we don't need?

This "city vs. Ticats mentality" is what has caused Hamilton's Pan Am involvement to spiral downward, and has made the city a national laughing stock.

[Jon Dalton]

Mitchell suggested Hamilton could still use it's future fund to contribute towards an Aldershot stadium. That I found ridiculous. Public appetite for the expenditure of those funds on a stadium is at an all time low; council will not support using it for a facility that will belong to another city. This plan won't work for the simple reason that the money isn't there for it.

[bigguy1231]

Why would the city waste $45m in FF dollars on a 6k seat stadium we don't need?

This "city vs. Ticats mentality" is what has caused Hamilton's Pan Am involvement to spiral downward, and has made the city a national laughing stock.

The city wouldn't have to spend $45 million on it if it's only 6000 seats. MAC's stadium cost them something like $15 million. So we spend $15 million including the $10 million already spent on the land and Hostco pays the rest.

The reason for the downward spiral is the Ticats and the Ticats alone. They seem to think they can dictate how the city will invest their money. They were wrong. The people who pay the freight determine the destination not the freight.

The city isn't a national laughing stock. 99.9% of people in this country don't know anything about whats going on here and if they did they wouldn't care. It's just not that important an issue.

[markbarbera]

The thing is the city has already have a stadium of this size - at McMaster University. Why should we waste our money on the construction and the associated annual upkeep costs on a redundant structure doomed to underutilization? Besides, council already said no to that option when they abandoned the WH site to review the alternate sites at MIP and the CP Yards.

And yes the nation is watching the story. And yes they do care about the issue. And yes we do look like a laughing stock.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/story/2010/12/28/sp-ticats-stadium.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/mayor-hopes-deal-can-keep-ticats-in-hamilton/article1851012/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2010/12/28/ticats_statement/

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2010/12/28/hamilton-mayor-hopes-ticats-will-stay/

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/Tiger+Cats+contemplate+move+Burlington/4032167/story.html

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=347179

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Tiger+Cats+contemplating+move+Burlington/4030667/story.html

http://www.680news.com/sports/article/162337--hamilton-tiger-cats-reported-to-be-working-on-stadium-deal-in-burlington

[fenwick16]

I certainly don't see Hamilton as a laughing stock (how can the city council be considered a laughing stock for being fiscally responsible in their choices). I am just peeved at the Hamilton Tiger-Cats owner for being so self-centered that he insisted on a suburban site surrounded by thousands of parking spots. The Hamilton Council made the right choice in picking the West Harbour site. A new stadium in the heart of the city would have been great for Hamilton in my opinion. I have been to Copps Coliseum a couple of times and I thought that area would have been perfect for a stadium also. Hamilton has an impressive downtown so why not show it off. (I am no longer a Hamilton resident but I lived in Hamilton for several years and it was a fantastic place to live).

[Rottie]

I've sort of been following this ongoing saga and as a CFL fan I hate to see any team in trouble and no I wouldn't say Hamilton's a laughing stock either. Not funny at all. But I'm sure the nation is bewildered at how dysfunctional the whole process has been and the lack of compromise and cooperation on both sides given this once in a generation opportunity to build a stadium in your city. It reeks of inflated egos. Some folks would rather see a century old franchise, that sort of puts your city on the map so to speak,and a new stadium, for more than just the ticats, disappear into the sunset and not blink an eye. That's unfortunate and a little puzzling. I just hope that Regina's proposed stadium process doesn't go down the same road of head slapping and embarassment.

[WentworthSt]

I certainly don't see Hamilton as a laughing stock...

I agree... Not writing the blank-cheque for a potential Springfield Monorail shouldn't embarrass us in this economy. I think the hesitation to fork out $70+ million for CP's graveyard shows some wisdom too.

I've always been for a stadium and the jobs it will create, its just all these damn hands that went straight for our city wallet!

I also bet, now that the plan has the affluent name of Oakville in the mix, suddenly the gov will spring for the works ...and we can go back to paying here for the poverty that Ontario doesn't have (just Hamilton.)

Another view...
http://hamilton-on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/map-aldershot_lands_burlington_google_view.jpg

[bigguy1231]

Mark,

Most of those links are to sports pages. Most people in this country skip over the sports section when they read the paper.

I am fan of many sports, and even I am not deluded enough to believe that more than a fraction of the population gives a damn about the day to day goings on in sports. Only hardcore sports fans read the sports section and they are a very small minority in this country. I consider myself a hardcore sports fan and even I don't read the sports section most days.

[markbarbera]

Bigguy I can understand how you would want to discount those stories but the fact is all national news media be it print, radio or tv. Perhaps I am more sensitive to how this is being perceived outside of Hamilton because I work in Toronto and I get the questions from my coworkers asking me what is going on in Hamilton with the Ticats and the stadium. People are well aware and I get plenty of ribbing about it.

[bigguy1231]

Bigguy I can understand how you would want to discount those stories but the fact is all national news media be it print, radio or tv. Perhaps I am more sensitive to how this is being perceived outside of Hamilton because I work in Toronto and I get the questions from my coworkers asking me what is going on in Hamilton with the Ticats and the stadium. People are well aware and I get plenty of ribbing about it.

I am not going to disagree with you, I am sure you do get some ribbing. But it is Toronto, 45 minutes down the road. It's in the immediate area and there is an overlap of coverage. CHCH is the number 2 news in the area. I was speaking in more general terms nationally.

Just do what I do when people from out of town question politics in this city. I usually tell them it's a bloodsport here, we don't take prisoners. It's all or nothing.

[Berklon]

And yes the nation is watching the story. And yes they do care about the issue. And yes we do look like a laughing stock.

Just because it's on the net and/or in the papers, doesn't mean people care or are really paying attention to the story. Even if it makes Hamilton look foolish... who eff'n cares? Just shrug it off and move on. Almost every day I read about something that a city has done to look foolish (ie. Toronto). They managed to survive - as well as other cities.

What happens when (not if) Burlington shoots down the stadium idea? How will that make the Ti-Cats look? You know, the guys who keep threatening to move to all these places - making it sound like they have a ton of options... but getting rejected by a neighbouring city at the end of the day. In my opinion, they look like the biggest fools in this whole mess.

[dennis1]

I think the Ticats look bad for moving to a suburb of Toronto.

[thompsdk]

It seems as though a bit under half of the proposed Aldershot stadium site is a designated woodland under the Halton Official plan (image via Ontario MNR's Land Information Ontario (green shading indicates designated woodlands):

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le7xsgEx6G1qfle7wo1_500.png

These woodland delineations are the same as the Natural Heritage System in the Halton Official Plan

Moreover, it has at least two watercourses (i.e. streams) running through it, including Grindstone Creek, which the RBG protects:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le7xl7qO7H1qfle7wo1_500.png

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le7xdspdMZ1qfle7wo1_500.png

The above panel shows streams and the exact property parcel owned by Paletta
(via mapping.burlington.ca)

That means a lengthy EIA involving the Fisheries Act, Migratory Birds Act, etc.

I have more maps and some photos of the woodlands on the site, including very nice stands of mature native trees

thompsdk.tumblr.com

[fenwick16]

I agree, the Ticats will be the ones to look bad. Unfortunately they will likely be left with few options if Burlington turns them down. It seems like Bob Young is playing hardball and in the end he might end up looking very bad and become very unpopular in Hamilton (especially if he really does try to move the Ticats).

This same situation has happened in other cities when owners have demanded too much of the municipality that they are located in. I tend to side with the Hamilton council since they have a duty to taxpayers. Bob Young certainly doesn't seem to be concerned about the cost to taxpayers.

[fenwick16]

It seems as though a bit under half of the proposed Aldershot stadium site is a designated woodland under the Halton Official plan (image via Ontario MNR's Land Information Ontario (green shading indicates designated woodlands):
.
.
.
I have more maps and some photos of the woodlands on the site, including very nice stands of mature native trees

thompsdk.tumblr.com

Thanks for all the information. I just realized that I know this area quite well (I also lived in Burlington for many years, at one time near Maple Avenue). It certainly is a nice spot just a few blocks from the IKEA Store. It is too bad that it isn't part of Hamilton. But I still prefer the West Harbour location over this location.

[bigguy1231]

It seems as though a bit under half of the proposed Aldershot stadium site is a designated woodland under the Halton Official plan (image via Ontario MNR's Land Information Ontario (green shading indicates designated woodlands):

The above panel shows streams and the exact property parcel owned by Paletta
(via mapping.burlington.ca)

That means a lengthy EIA involving the Fisheries Act, Migratory Birds Act, etc.

I have more maps and some photos of the woodlands on the site, including very nice stands of mature native trees

The lands in question are the open areas closest to King Rd. They are already zoned commercial. The province just clear cut a big chunk of that forest to build the new on ramp from Waterdown Rd to the 403. So I don't think any EA will be neccesary. It would be a nice delay if they had to, but I think most of those assessments have already been done. As for the NEC getting involved, I think I read something about their jurisdiction ending at the North Service Rd.

[padthai]

Burlington council skittish over Aldershot stadium
Ken Peters
The Hamilton Spectator

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/307154--burlington-council-skittish-over-aldershot-stadium

BURLINGTON Oskie whoa whoa!

Some councillors in cash-strapped Burlington are skittish about a proposed Hamilton Tiger-Cat plan for a Pan Am stadium in Aldershot.

The city is already committed to helping fund a badly needed redevelopment of Joseph Brant Memorial Hospital and the Alton Community Centre, as well as the looming operating costs of a still-to-be-opened Burlington Performing Arts Centre.

Add in the fact that residents have seen their property taxes increase by 28 per cent over the past four years and it’s little wonder there’s wariness about the municipality partnering on such a huge project.

That’s why some among the seven-member council — which features three new members and a new mayor all trying to find their political legs — are leery about being tapped for construction or operating costs for a possible $130-million stadium.

“Our mouths are full. Our constituents agree our mouths are full and we have to stop chewing before we go and stick any more in our mouth,” said veteran Councillor Jack Dennison.

Rookie Burlington Councillor Marianne Meed Ward admits she is “leaning toward” voting nay to even having city staff report back on the stadium plan. She wonders if it’s all a ploy to get Hamilton back to the bargaining table just as word broke Wednesday that at least one Hamilton councillor is reconsidering his vote to reject an evaluation of Confederation Park as a stadium site.

John Taylor, another longtime Burlington councillor, worries about the city being on the hook for capital and operating costs and about meeting a Feb. 1 deadline to find a stadium site imposed by the Pan Am Games organizing committee.

The Tiger-Cats are considering partnering with a Burlington-based consortium led by Paletta International on a stadium deal that would see the group provide $30 million and a prime parcel of Aldershot real estate.

As part of the pact, the City of Burlington would apply through Hostco, the Pan Am organizing committee, for some $70 million to $100 million in federal and provincial funding. The city and possibly Halton region would be tapped for a still-undisclosed financial contribution.

Some councillors are worried about a possible $30-million shortfall. But sources close to the Burlington plan say the gap is about $10 million. That’s far less than the $45 million Hamilton taxpayers were being asked to fork over for a possible stadium to be built in that municipality.

Burlington Mayor Rick Goldring is expected next week to ask city staff to prepare a report on the issue.

“I can be very excited about it if it’s not going to cost our taxpayers one penny,” Dennison said. “I’m talking about capital dollars, I’m talking about operating dollars.”

Dennison worries that even with government funding and $30 million from the private sector, it still won’t be enough.

“Things would have to be phenomenally different than I’m hearing them for me to have any interest,” he added, saying he would still support having city staff investigate the issue.

Angelo Paletta and the Tiger-Cats, who have indicated the Aldershot business model calls for a smaller 22,000-seat complex than the 25,000-seat facility pitched for Hamilton, have acknowledged the funding shortfall. But Paletta believes the Burlington contribution could be covered by the city offering the $5 million in government funding it would have received to build a Pan Am soccer complex.

Meed Ward tweeted that the proposal is “fiscal lunacy.”

“But if this is serious, this is shaping up to be a $30-million headache for Burlington. I don’t see a lot of silver lining in it for Burlington,” she told The Spectator.

“There is every indication the hand will be out to Burlington taxpayers on this project as well,” she said, adding the Pan Am stadium woes are the equivalent of Burlington’s controversial and cash-draining pier project.

The Spectator has learned there is talk among some Hamilton councillors to reconsider evaluating Confederation Park for a stadium site. It comes to council Jan. 12 for a formal vote after being rejected in a 9-6 committee vote just before Christmas. All that would be needed is for three councillors to change their minds. Ward 8 Councillor Terry Whitehead, one of the nine, says “it’s a brand new game at council” and that he is “staying open-minded.”

“Am I entrenched on my original position?” he asked. “No, I am not.”

Mayor Bob Bratina, one of the six pro votes, believes if council reconsiders the evaluation study for Confederation Park, Hostco would extend the Feb. 1 deadline.

“I believe if they think we’re serious, and we’re on to something … I think they would give it to us,” the mayor said.

With files from Garry McKay and Daniel Nolan

kpeters@thespec.com

905-526-3388

[SteelTown]

Apparently HOSTCO will extend the Feb 1st deadline if council agrees to review Confederation Park.

[WentworthSt]

It seems as though a bit under half of the proposed Aldershot stadium site is a designated woodland under the Halton Official plan

Yes, you keep posting that online... Just how big do you think the site is? The area in discussion is a fraction of what you show... Its a big building, but not a major theme park.

And its private property, owned by Paletta and already planned for a big arena and office park. Where was all this environmental concern when it was for hockey instead of football & soccer?

I don't understand who's business it is even to stop this... An arena parking won't hurt the environment but a stadium parking lot will ruin what?

Its private land, not a wilderness treasure-- one in 100's of miles of unused gaps between highway 403 and Whatever Rd.

[BCTed]

Apparently HOSTCO will extend the Feb 1st deadline if council agrees to review Confederation Park.

Is that based on Bratina's comments in the above article or is it based on a statement from HostCo?

[matt602]

That has to be based on Bratina's comments. Hostco has already made it very clear that the deadline is firm. Other municipalities are lining up, this is it.

[mattgrande]

Yes, you keep posting that online... Just how big do you think the site is? The area in discussion is a fraction of what you show... Its a big building, but not a major theme park.

And its private property, owned by Paletta and already planned for a big arena and office park. Where was all this environmental concern when it was for hockey instead of football & soccer?

I don't understand who's business it is even to stop this... An arena parking won't hurt the environment but a stadium parking lot will ruin what?

Its private land, not a wilderness treasure-- one in 100's of miles of unused gaps between highway 403 and Whatever Rd.

The zoning was approved for one 9,000 seat arena. All this other stuff is new and hasn't been approved yet. The arena could fit in the North East corner, away from the protected land. The stadium and other buildings (probably) couldn't.

As others have said, though, there's been a highway exchange put in there recently, maybe the situation is different now. The biggest potential problem would be the two creeks running through that land, imo.

[isaidso]

I think the Ticats look bad for moving to a suburb of Toronto.

Burlington is actually considered a suburb of Hamilton by Stats Canada.

[Anders Knudsen]

I've sort of been following this ongoing saga and as a CFL fan I hate to see any team in trouble and no I wouldn't say Hamilton's a laughing stock either. Not funny at all. But I'm sure the nation is bewildered at how dysfunctional the whole process has been and the lack of compromise and cooperation on both sides given this once in a generation opportunity to build a stadium in your city. It reeks of inflated egos. Some folks would rather see a century old franchise, that sort of puts your city on the map so to speak,and a new stadium, for more than just the ticats, disappear into the sunset and not blink an eye. That's unfortunate and a little puzzling. I just hope that Regina's proposed stadium process doesn't go down the same road of head slapping and embarassment.

This is the best comment I've read about this issue in a long time.

[realcity]

wait wait. i need to go back a few posts. bigguy "most people don't read the sports pages"...?

Is that why every paper has a sports section? because noone reads it? And radio stations totally devoted to sports, several tv stations all sports and every local tv news station, has a sports segment. ?????

Remember your habits and likes and dislikes are not everyone else's. Lots of people like and enjoy sports. Maybe not you. But it means a lot to the real fans of sports and competition.

And I might ask those people that don't care for sports as entertainment refrain from the conversation and stop kiboshing it for those that it does mean a great importance to. If you don't care, then stop already.

It was always my suspicion that WH supporters never really cared about the Cats anyway, or aren't real sports fans. They were just FredFans and even moreso after his epic loss.

Let's hope one more counselor changes his opinion to examine Confed because that's our last hope to keep the Cats.

Now to repeat, keeping the Cats means a lot to a lot of people in Hamilton. If you are indifferent to pro-sports or even am-sports (like PanAm -- the second most watched amateur sports event in the world), keep quiet. It doesn't mean anything to you.