Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III

[hocobo]

Hate to say it, but I think we should take what we can get right there. A five story building is better than another decade spent with a block-sized hole in the ground in what is supposed to be our city center. No one's about to sweep in and build a skyscraper there. We should consider how the neighborhood will look to future investors.

[Surefiresacto]

Has anyone seen the recent pic of the Kings "midrise" apartments on 8th and K? Isnt a project that size entirely inappropriate at that site? We already have taller buildings in Midtown and if 19th and J and 25th and J start construction this year we will have much more taller housing in midtown.

Also, isnt even the next door apartments at 7th and K taller? I could see if they just rehabbed an existing building, but they are starting from a hole in the ground and its still just the standard 5 story building that is already poping up all over midtown. We don't need another one downtown.

Agreed. It seems extremely underwhelming and would be a big missed opportunity if constructed.

[yolonative]

Has anyone seen the recent pic of the Kings "midrise" apartments on 8th and K? Isnt a project that size entirely inappropriate at that site? We already have taller buildings in Midtown and if 19th and J and 25th and J start construction this year we will have much more taller housing in midtown.

Also, isnt even the next door apartments at 7th and K taller? I could see if they just rehabbed an existing building, but they are starting from a hole in the ground and its still just the standard 5 story building that is already poping up all over midtown. We don't need another one downtown.

Totally agree on all accounts. When I heard mid-rise a few months ago I was already disappointed, thinking it would be 8 stories or something. This is even more disappointing than I expected.

This design is perfect in midtown as you mentioned, but they should have added more height here. Is it possible they could still revise, or do you think they're too far along?

[snfenoc]

The "towers" in midtown are not a foregone conclusion - especially if a certain comm(ie)unity activist has his way.

We've had debates about appropriate locations for structures before. I'm confused, because some of the people who are complaining right now have said that it's perfectly appropriate to build towers in midtown. Additionally, they have noted how unwieldy Sacramento's height restrictions and view corridor are. As we've discussed, developers can only build on properties they own or control. They can't magically relocate a proposal simply because YOU don't like the number of floors it has. So if a 15-story tower can be build on 25th street, why can't a 5-story midrise get built on 8th street?

I think it has been proven (to a satisfactory degree) that highrises are hard to deliver; and they are even harder to deliver in the Sacramento market. 5-ish story concrete podium and stick frame structures seem to be the rule, while highrises are the exception.

The site in question has been a blighted hole in the ground for a decade. Sacramento has many other holes in the ground and rundown buildings; and they're just waiting for the Tower Fairy to sprinkle her magic dust on them... Well, the bitch has only got so much dust!

History shows that Kings ownership is only willing to build big when the city gives them a quarter of a billion dollars. So unless some big subsidy satisfies their greed, this 5-story disappointment is what we get. At this point, I'll be happy to see that block get developed, highrise or not.

[Majin]

The "towers" in midtown are not a foregone conclusion - especially if a certain comm(ie)unity activist has his way.

I agree until dirt is moving we don't know for sure what will happen, but I seriously doubt wburg and his cronies will be the undoing of these towers. I'm actually pretty optimistic both will get built.

We've had debates about appropriate locations for structures before. I'm confused, because some of the people who are complaining right now have said that it's perfectly appropriate to build towers in midtown. Additionally, they have noted how unwieldy Sacramento's height restrictions and view corridor are. As we've discussed, developers can only build on properties they own or control. They can't magically relocate a proposal simply because YOU don't like the number of floors it has. So if a 15-story tower can be build on 25th street, why can't a 5-story midrise get built on 8th street?

I'm not asking anyone to relocate anything and I do thing the highrise buildings should get built in midtown. I just think 8th and K is too central/important of a location to get the standard 5 story building that is already sprouting up all over midtown. Every downtown hole in the ground should get a tower. At least 15 stories, with some 30+ story towers sprinkled in.

I think it has been proven (to a satisfactory degree) that highrises are hard to deliver; and they are even harder to deliver in the Sacramento market. 5-ish story concrete podium and stick frame structures seem to be the rule, while highrises are the exception.

Without any legitimate reasoning in my opinion. All of the data supports Sacramento can easily fill up a few residential towers. Markets will smaller populations, lower housing prices, and lower income have them.

The site in question has been a blighted hole in the ground for a decade. Sacramento has many other holes in the ground and rundown buildings; and they're just waiting for the Tower Fairy to sprinkle her magic dust on them... Well, the bitch has only got so much dust!

History shows that Kings ownership is only willing to build big when the city gives them a quarter of a billion dollars. So unless some big subsidy satisfies their greed, this 5-story disappointment is what we get. At this point, I'll be happy to see that block get developed, highrise or not.
History shows? You only have data points of 2 projects.

Either way, yes a 5 story building is better than a hole in the ground, however I still say this is a big missed opportunities. Thankfully there are more opportunities right next door to the arena such as L street where the greyhound station was.

And here is my big issue with development in the grid. After this next wave of midrise projects including 19th and J and 25th and J if built, 2 years from now lenders should have sufficient data of a large portfolio of urban midrise projects being successful in the grid with high rent/housing prices. What other data point would they need to start opening up lending for 20+ story towers?

[snfenoc]

Hmmmm. I didn't think that sports franchises like taking money from their host cities is a notion that requires multiple data points and scientific evidence. Need more evidence? Take a look at almost every other public-private "partnership" that exists.

In regard to the effectiveness of a certain busy body (who blocked me on Twitter...go figure?), I agree that economics is a much bigger influence. However, according to the Business Journal, the profit margin for Yamanee is thin. (At least, that's the developer's excuse for wanting to build upward.) I am not sure what the profit margin is like for Moe's 19 J project, but I doubt the economics are deeply in its favor. Face it, big projects are suicidal. They find any and every way they can to kill themselves. If the slightest problem crops up, investor money can evaporate. All the activist crew has to do is delay things just long enough for these taller projects to die on the vine.

I agree that 8th and K is a great, central location for a 30+ story tower. I mean, how great would it look on the skyline? However, the Kings want to build a cheap, stick frame structure. As we've discussed, it isn't easy to simply trade properties. Why is the proposal so short? Well first, 5-story, stick frame midrises are simply cheaper to build! They require cheaper materials, less labor, smaller cranes, and they receive less opposition from comm(ie)unity activists. There are many other factors too: The Kings biggest interest is turning K Street into a money-generating, urban hipster mall, anchored by the arena, and supported by hotels, retail and restaurants. I doubt that reasonably-priced housing, in mass quantities, is a big concern for them. However, the city wants housing. Also, it's just time for something....ANYTHING....to get built on that site. It has been a blighted, neglected hole in the ground for a decade, which is far too long. Taking all this into account, it looks like the Kings are willing to provide SOME housing, but they'll be doing so in the easiest, cheapest way that still fits into their business model.

Highrises are difficult to build, especially in Sacramento....this conclusion is made without legitimate reasoning? Do you know something I don't? Sure, there is plenty of demand for housing, but demand isn't the only variable in the highrise equation. The hurdles that residential towers face were not just pulled out of my ass. I identified them by reading multiple expert reports . Look around...the nation is in the midst of a construction boom and housing demand is through the roof (mind the pun). Heck, even demand for office is looking better than it has in years. YET only a single, subsidized (mostly hotel and retail) tower is under construction right now in Sacramento. What does that tell you?

Highrises are expensive to build: materials are really expensive, and labor is really, REALLY expensive. Large construction projects require financing, and banks aren't just giving out money. Equity partners are required, but they are risk averse. I think my reasoning and that of the experts is pretty sound.

Towers in Sacramento are NOT impossible. Frankly, I think if Sacramento can string together a few good projects, especially if either Yamanee or 19J can get built, that may be enough to tip the scales. I just hope the market doesn't fall apart beforehand.

[hocobo]

Imagine looking for a place to build your $300 million luxury condo tower and arriving in downtown Sacramento right now -

"So how long has that enormous hole in the ground been there?"
"The one with the hobos fighting in it?"
"Yes."
"Eleven years."
"Seriously?! This is THE location to invest all of our money."

It would be better for our city to pave it over and build a skatepark there than to leave it how it is another five, ten years.

[innov8]

Hmmmm. I didn't think that sports franchises like taking money from their host cities is a notion that requires multiple data points and scientific evidence. Need more evidence? Take a look at almost every other public-private "partnership" that exists.

In regard to the effectiveness of a certain busy body (who blocked me on Twitter...go figure?), I agree that economics is a much bigger influence. However, according to the Business Journal, the profit margin for Yamanee is thin. (At least, that's the developer's excuse for wanting to build upward.) I am not sure what the profit margin is like for Moe's 19 J project, but I doubt the economics are deeply in its favor. Face it, big projects are suicidal. They find any and every way they can to kill themselves. If the slightest problem crops up, investor money can evaporate. All the activist crew has to do is delay things just long enough for these taller projects to die on the vine.

I agree that 8th and K is a great, central location for a 30+ story tower. I mean, how great would it look on the skyline? However, the Kings want to build a cheap, stick frame structure. As we've discussed, it isn't easy to simply trade properties. Why is the proposal so short? Well first, 5-story, stick frame midrises are simply cheaper to build! They require cheaper materials, less labor, smaller cranes, and they receive less opposition from comm(ie)unity activists. There are many other factors too: The Kings biggest interest is turning K Street into a money-generating, urban hipster mall, anchored by the arena, and supported by hotels, retail and restaurants. I doubt that reasonably-priced housing, in mass quantities, is a big concern for them. However, the city wants housing. Also, it's just time for something....ANYTHING....to get built on that site. It has been a blighted, neglected hole in the ground for a decade, which is far too long. Taking all this into account, it looks like the Kings are willing to provide SOME housing, but they'll be doing so in the easiest, cheapest way that still fits into their business model.

Highrises are difficult to build, especially in Sacramento....this conclusion is made without legitimate reasoning? Do you know something I don't? Sure, there is plenty of demand for housing, but demand isn't the only variable in the highrise equation. The hurdles that residential towers face were not just pulled out of my ass. I identified them by reading multiple expert reports . Look around...the nation is in the midst of a construction boom and housing demand is through the roof (mind the pun). Heck, even demand for office is looking better than it has in years. YET only a single, subsidized (mostly hotel and retail) tower is under construction right now in Sacramento. What does that tell you?

Highrises are expensive to build: materials are really expensive, and labor is really, REALLY expensive. Large construction projects require financing, and banks aren't just giving out money. Equity partners are required, but they are risk averse. I think my reasoning and that of the experts is pretty sound.

Towers in Sacramento are NOT impossible. Frankly, I think if Sacramento can string together a few good projects, especially if either Yamanee or 19J can get built, that may be enough to tip the scales. I just hope the market doesn't fall apart beforehand.

Your right snfenoc, and you have outlined Sacramento’s short coming plainly.

Developers have also come to expect subsidies when doing business in the
grid, few big project happen here unless the city or state offer finical aid.
It’s disappointing not seeing any new high-rises, but in reality, the
Sacramento market is not expensive enough for developers to take the risk.
That goes for office high-rises too. The rental rate per square foot needs to
rise another 13% or 40 cents so that a high-rise office building pencils out.
The Sacramento Business Journal has mentioned several time in the last few
years. If the market is so hot, why has taken nearly seven years for the
L Street Lofts to finally sell its 70th unit of the 92 available? Midtown is much
more desirable to big spenders than anywhere downtown.

Remember Vanir Tower? 27 months ago, they made headlines about their
proposed tower, a year later they even teased that it could get taller
because of all the interest. To this day, the developer still has not filed
any paperwork or paid any entitlements/permits to begin the development
process with the city. Any bets on when they might put some money on the table?

[urban_encounter]

Unfortunately I suspect that Sacramento's skyline will forever be an under performer. There just isn't enough financial capital, development experience or interest in building high rise residential projects in Sacramento. There isn't any demand for high rise office development either. During the most recent financial upswing cities across the country have watched their downtowns transformed with new high rise residential towers with few exceptions; Sacramento being one of those exceptions.

The only possibility on the horizon is the state of California. If the state can put together a proposal, Sacramento may see a new high rise in the next five years. However, given their miserable track record when it comes to design, Sacramento shouldn't hold its breath for a quality project. In fact I think it's more likely the state will opt for lowrise development given the problems they've had with the BOE building and the need for large floor plates.

[Pistola916]

PEI Cobb Architects released newer renderings of Vanir Tower. Nothing to get too excited about since it doesn't state when the project will start construction. It also looks like it has been shorten to 25-stories from 26. But the newer pictures do offer a cleaner look to the tower, which is pretty much the same design.

https://pcf-p.com/projects/vanir-tower/

https://pcfandtypecodewebstuff.s3.amazonaws.com/images/copyqJ7-3.ren.PCF.1407_02-dusk.original.max-1600x1200.jpg

[Surefiresacto]

PEI Cobb Architects released newer renderings of Vanir Tower. Nothing to get too excited about since it doesn't state when the project will start construction. It also looks like it has been shorten to 25-stories from 26. But the newer pictures do offer a cleaner look to the tower, which is pretty much the same design.

News is better than silence. I was worried when the sign blew over in one of the first big storms of the season and nobody bothered to replace it. :tup:

[enigma99a]

PEI Cobb Architects released newer renderings of Vanir Tower. Nothing to get too excited about since it doesn't state when the project will start construction. It also looks like it has been shorten to 25-stories from 26. But the newer pictures do offer a cleaner look to the tower, which is pretty much the same design.

https://pcf-p.com/projects/vanir-tower/

Too bad it was reduced, thought there was a chance to make it bigger since vacancies are low in Downtown. Still a nice tower though and would like to see it built

[Korey]

This being Sac I'm sure we'll all believe it only when steel starts rising.

Looks like CADA got 4 proposals for their site at 14 & N, hope they can move forward with a nice design. Such a killer location.

[urban_encounter]

I think Vanir is still a long shot to get built whether it's 26 stories, 25 or 18. There just isn't a market for high rise office space in Sacramento. It's not a bad looking design but it's nothing spectacular. It looks like it could be dropped in a suburban Houston office park and fit right in.

[innov8]

You guys crack me up. This is not news. Seeing a rendering on an architectural website
does not mean its one-step closer to anything. At least John Saca had the balls to
spend big money on entitlements/permits with the city to move both The Metropolitan
and The Towers forward before they both fizzled out unlike the people behind
The Vanir Tower proposal. Those renderings of the tower will be on that architectural
website for years after the proposal fades away from our memory just like Aura (http://www.hrgarchitects.com/index_Parking_Aura.html), Epic (http://www.hrgarchitects.com/index_Epic_Highrise.html),
Capitol Grand Tower (http://www.mohannadevelopment.com/portfolio_page/capitol-grand-tower/), 700i (http://www.dreyfussblackford.com/project/700-i-street/), etc., etc., etc…

[ltsmotorsport]

Well damn, if the mood in here hasn't gone from mild optimism to depressing.

Yes, the Vanir Tower project is taking a long time. The DOCO tower is also taking longer to construct than other similar-sized projects. We've also gone 'round on why all these are they way they are in Sacramento. I'm also fairly certain we'll see a lot of positive progress in both new projects and construction this years.

There's still a lot of people who want to live and work in the central city, and a lot of room in the market to accommodate. Stay positive people!

[Korey]

Eh innov8 is just a grumpy old bastard anyways. The pressure from the demand for central city living will eventually get good things built here. We just have to be patient. Sigh.

I do wish the Metropolitan got off the ground, glad Saca still has the land and hopeful he pulls it off sometime. Any news from the hole in the ground? There was some noise from PERS and bleh renderings a while back but seems to have been just a tease like Vanir.

[snfenoc]

Eh innov8 is just a grumpy old bastard anyways. The pressure from the demand for central city living will eventually get good things built here. We just have to be patient. Sigh.

I do wish the Metropolitan got off the ground, glad Saca still has the land and hopeful he pulls it off sometime. Any news from the hole in the ground? There was some noise from PERS and bleh renderings a while back but seems to have been just a tease like Vanir.

No need to call names. I think many of us "old timers" just got sick and tired of talking about pretty drawings and endless planning meetings without receiving much satisfaction. Having said that, I am disappointed with the lack of discussion, pictures, rumors, and argument on this forum. You'd think Sacramento fell off the map...it didn't - there's lots going on.

Of course, Sacramento cannot carve itself out of California's ridiculousness. Buildings are expensive to get off the ground, and while there are plenty of people who want to live in an urban utopia, they just don't have enough coin. Give it time. Things move slow in Sacramento. I was back in town a few months ago and had a great time. Great city that will get even greater.

[Korey]

Even as someone who is living in the core and doesn't have the benefit of lengthy time away for perspective the acceleration these past few years has been noticeable.

I go back and forth on us being ignored. I do like the ability to grow as a city relatively anonymously. I don't want the hype train to catch us like Portland but at the same time some recognition would be nice to provide some sort of tailwind for developers.

I will be interested in how well Nikki Mohanna's project at 19th and J works out. The addition of some (relatively) cheap small sqft urban units might spur more developers to build some non large floorplan luxury rentals. I think a lot of folks are ok with a 400sqft studio if the tradeoff is new construction, walkable location, and non-insane rents.

Our little dying subform...yes it's sad but I'll keep trying to do my part and resist my lurker tendencies. I see more urban/planning discussion on r/sacramento at this point. But hey, at least people somewhere are talking about these things.

[snfenoc]

Well damn, if the mood in here hasn't gone from mild optimism to depressing.

Yes, the Vanir Tower project is taking a long time. The DOCO tower is also taking longer to construct than other similar-sized projects. We've also gone 'round on why all these are they way they are in Sacramento. I'm also fairly certain we'll see a lot of positive progress in both new projects and construction this years.

There's still a lot of people who want to live and work in the central city, and a lot of room in the market to accommodate. Stay positive people!

I'm actually wondering why DOCO has taken so long. It has an ownership group that has been significantly subsidized. Was it lazy, greedy contractors and construction workers, lack of additional investment? What gives?

[urban_encounter]

I have to agree with both innov8 and snfenoc. There is a lot of exciting smaller projects happening in Sacramento along K street and R street corridors. While Sacramento will always be "home" I honestly I have no idea why this sub-forum still exists??? This is a skyscraper forum and Sacramento is one of the few mid to large sized metro areas that isn't really building skyscrapers. There's really not much to get excited about in terms of skyscraper proposals and there's nothing on the horizon to get excited about.

[innov8]

Eh innov8 is just a grumpy old bastard anyways. The pressure from the demand for central city living will eventually get good things built here. We just have to be patient. Sigh.

I do wish the Metropolitan got off the ground, glad Saca still has the land and hopeful he pulls it off sometime. Any news from the hole in the ground? There was some noise from PERS and bleh renderings a while back but seems to have been just a tease like Vanir.


Maybe I am a grumpy old bastard. However, I have also seen this seinaro
play out so many times before and they usually end by quietly fading away.
The mid to late 1980’s were the best years for high-rise private investment
in Sacramento ending in 1992. Lots of private towers rose up, Emerald
Tower, Renaissance Tower, Wells Fargo, Park Tower, 1201 K Street Tower.
Back then, it would take one or two years for proposals to be approved by
the city. This drawn-out timeline killed off many other high-rise applications
in addition to city imposed height restrictions along R Street and the Capitol
View Protection while proposals were a year or more into the entitlement/permit process.
The State built Capitol Square during that same period.

The 1990’s mostly saw State and Federal towers rise like the US Federal
Court House, Cal EPA Tower, General Service Bldg., Dept. of Justice Building.
Private developments were the Esquire Plaza and Sheraton Grand with
heavy subsidies. The Sheraton project introduced subsidies as way finance a
private project in the grid, which is now the norm here. Ever since then,
most developers planning to build big projects also have their hand out to
the city… The Towers almost got $10 million from the city.

The 2000’s saw about the same in private development as the 1990’s.
The Meridian Plaza, 500 Capitol Mall, Marriott Residence Inn and US Bank
Tower. The developer for US Bank Tower bought the city block for $1 from
the city in the 1990’s; again, this is a subsidy by the city, which made this
project possible. A highlight from that same period was 500 Capitol Mall,
they financed the tower their self. A project of this size being built on
speculation in Sacramento is unheard of and the bet paid off for them.

Now in this decade, we have an arena and hotel/condo tower being built
with heavy subsidies by the city to the tune of $272.9 million in addition
to a mega land give away.

My lack of optimism is based the downward trend of these cycles. Is there a
group of deep pocket developers waiting for just the right moment to
finance our skyline with offices and condominiums? My guess is no.
Especially with vast swaths of empty land, close by in West Sac & Natomas.
I have been a HUGE cheerleader of downtown development for decades,
but I also look at the 28-month delay Vanir Tower is enduring as an echo of
something we have all seen before. I would love to be proven wrong with
Vanir, really! If built it will probably be the only high-rise office built during
this decade. Small projects are thriving in the city and we should be thankful for those.

[Justbuildit]

https://s1.postimg.org/ghvlfwgrz/rsz_transmogrify.jpg

I like the design of the new hotel. It's not tall, but from what I can see it looks like it will have a big impact improving downtown. :cheers:

[ltsmotorsport]

For those here concerned about progress, the owner of the Italian deli/grocer at the site of the 19J project is closing at the end of April. While the store will be missed, his retirement signals forward momentum for the new development.

Link to story with video http://www.kcra.com/article/sacramento-deli-owner-happy-to-say-bye-to-shop-hi-to-high-rise/9099486

[snfenoc]

For those here concerned about progress, the owner of the Italian deli/grocer at the site of the 19J project is closing at the end of April. While the store will be missed, his retirement signals forward momentum for the new development.

Link to story with video http://www.kcra.com/article/sacramento-deli-owner-happy-to-say-bye-to-shop-hi-to-high-rise/9099486


We said the same about the demolition of the old Sacramento Union building. ;)

[CAGeoNerd]

For those here concerned about progress, the owner of the Italian deli/grocer at the site of the 19J project is closing at the end of April. While the store will be missed, his retirement signals forward momentum for the new development.

Link to story with video http://www.kcra.com/article/sacramento-deli-owner-happy-to-say-bye-to-shop-hi-to-high-rise/9099486

There was also the Thai restaurant Coconut in that location and they already moved locations a few weeks ago.

[Pistola916]

There was also the Thai restaurant Coconut in that location and they already moved locations a few weeks ago.

But remember, according to Innov8, just because there are pretty renderings on an architect's website, or in this case, a restaurant moved to a different location, doesn't mean the project is any closer to being reality.

[yolonative]

There was also the Thai restaurant Coconut in that location and they already moved locations a few weeks ago.

Actually they moved for the other proposed residential tower (Yamanee on 25th and J), not the same as Italian Imports (19J at 19th and J).

[CAGeoNerd]

Actually they moved for the other proposed residential tower (Yamanee on 25th and J), not the same as Italian Imports (19J at 19th and J).

Aha! Well I guess I didn't even think of there being multiple J Street projects, I'm happy to be wrong here. :tup:

[urban_encounter]

But remember, according to Innov8, just because there are pretty renderings on an architect's website, or in this case, a restaurant moved to a different location, doesn't mean the project is any closer to being reality.

innov8 is 100% correct. Until a building goes vertical with steel and/or concrete, it's nothing more than a proposal. If there's any doubt, drive out to Sleep Train Arena and take a look at the rusting rebar and crumbling concrete of the Arco Park (stadium) foundation. If that's still not convincing, take a walk past 301 Capital Mall and count the piles that have been sitting in that hole in the ground (for a decade). How many businesses were relocated for the never built high rise condominium at 11th & J streets? I think it was called Cathedral Square? Here in Chicago we have our own hole in the ground from the failed "Chicago Spire." Proposals are nothing more than that.

[Deno]

So much optimism here.

[yolonative]

innov8 is 100% correct. Until a building goes vertical with steel and/or concrete, it's nothing more than a proposal. If there's any doubt, drive out to Sleep Train Arena and take a look at the rusting rebar and crumbling concrete of the Arco Park (stadium) foundation. If that's still not convincing, take a walk past 301 Capital Mall and count the piles that have been sitting in that hole in the ground (for a decade). How many businesses were relocated for the never built high rise condominium at 11th & J streets? I think it was called Cathedral Square? Here in Chicago we have our own hole in the ground from the failed "Chicago Spire." Proposals are nothing more than that.

Nikky Mohanna plans to self-finance 19J. This would seem to me that the barrier to completion is much lower. Do you agree? For reference, here's an article where "self-financing" was mentioned:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article92956762.html

[snfenoc]

Maybe her high volume, low price formula will work. But why haven't we seen it before?

The self-financed angle made me hopeful as well. Unfortunately, a fellow forumer smacked me back down to earth:

Big projects (and this qualifies) are very expensive; so most developers seek financing, since the margins are just too thin without it. (I'm not gonna sink my entire net worth into a building and wait 10 years for the rent money to pile up.) It should raise concerns that a developer is not considering outside financing. Sure, it's possible Nikky Mohanna has an ace in the hole, like $50 million lying around, between her seat cushions. However, I think it's more likely she knows that she'll never qualify for capital investment; because like all Mohanna urban proposals (that I know of), 19J probably isn't a viable.

My impression of her father, Moe Mohanna, is a legacy of promises he wouldn't keep, holding on tight to rundown, sometimes empty, properties and dangling a vague idea of development in front of the city while demanding huge subsidies. That impression could be wrong and Nikky is a different person, but I remain suspicious of the Mohannas until I see them produce a finished building. They talk like the love the city, but I think they just love the city's money.

To watch some of the most knowledgeable and experienced people on this forum get essentially called "nattering nabobs of negativism" really ticks me off. These members have been following and researching Sacramento's development for decades. To dismiss their concerns and questions is truly foolish. Go walk through Sacramento. Look at the holes in the ground. Look at the empty buildings and lots. I'll bet more than half of those properties are (or were) fully-entitled. Yet they sit empty. How long they sit empty is anyone's guess. I remain cautiously optimistic...very cautiously.

I think Sacramento would do better with smaller projects, letting them thrive, then seeing if developer AND investor AND contractor interest in building bigger follows.

[innov8]

But remember, according to Innov8, just because there are pretty renderings on an architect's website, or in this case, a restaurant moved to a different location, doesn't mean the project is any closer to being reality.

Oh good, now let us have a discussion based on things I have actually said
instead of strange assumption and comparisons that have no merit. I do not
believe I have said anything about 19J. Vanir Tower and 19J are not even
comparable, but that’s what you tried to do? I'm not even sure the Vanir
group own the property yet.

Moe Mohanna is an investor not a developer. He can call himself whatever
he wants but according to his own website his company has not built
anything since 1978 when he build homes in Rocklin. Everything else on his
website shows projects that never left the drawing board. The strangest one
is he take credit for selling the land to the Benvenutis who build the Renaissance
Tower. He sold the land, he did not build the tower.

Anyways, the Mohanna Development Co. (http://www.mohannadevelopment.com/) is still controlled by Moe. His daughter
has a seat at the table but he’s still the head of the operation. Moe has over
30 years of experience of owning nine properties on K Street and others
downtown and doing next to nothing to improve them. Like snfecoc said,
sitting there empty and rundown for years. I remember seeing lots of
proposals and rendering over the years for these K Street properties which
he would tease the City Council with, but he never did a thing beyond that.
He currently owns a former bank bldg. at 10th & K since 2015. It’s been
gutted and has sit there empty for several years now.

Moe’s development Co. has not developed anything since 1978 according to
his website. He lists 7 projects but only one of them was actually built.
Strange marketing tool if you ask me, but I bet he hopes people won’t notice that.

Will 19J actually get built? Try looking at it from this perspective. Mohanna
has said and proposed a lot of stuff over the years… lots of talk and no
action. How much confidence can you put behind a guy who has not built
anything since 1978? If 19J goes up it will be as amazing as the Cubs
winning the world series… what were the odds of that last year?

Thanks snfecoc for understanding what I’m saying here. My opinions are
grounded on what is real, not some hype I have fallen for many times before.

[enigma99a]

Will 19J actually get built? Try looking at it from this perspective. Mohanna
has said and proposed a lot of stuff over the years… lots of talk and no
action. How much confidence can you put behind a guy who has not built
anything since 1978? If 19J goes up it will be as amazing as the Cubs
winning the world series… what were the odds of that last year?


+1. I agree completely with this. Not saying things can't change but if you use the past to predict the future, you can see why a lot of us are concerned.

[innov8]

You have to wonder, at least I am. If the market is so great downtown for both office
and residential, why isn’t David Taylor stepping into the market? He is by far the most
successful developer downtown Sacramento has had in the last 20 years. His landmark
projects include Esquire Plaza, Sheraton Grand, 1201 K Street, U.S. Bank Tower, and
Sacramento City Hall. He knows how to get things done. He also understands that
subsidies from the City of Sacramento has made two of the above projects profitable
where under normal circumstances they would not. I believe the cities funding of some
projects and not others have manipulated the market… and not in a good way.
That extra subsidy money almost guarantees a profit when the projects done whereas
most developments are not given that money cushion. When there is no projected end
to funding, subsidies stop being a catalyst and start becoming a crutch. It appears to
me, with all these taxpayer-funded subsidies, subsidies have hidden what the true
development market is. CADA has had to offered subsidies for every
housing project they have ever done up until the site at 14th & N Street.

[Lipani]

I think Sacramento would do better with smaller projects, letting them thrive, than seeing if developer AND investor AND contractor interest in building bigger follows.

That'd be best for Sac. Even here in San Diego much of our infill are smaller projects. Some people will complain about 6-7 floor condos being built instead of 30-40 story skyscrapers, but fail to remember how bad or empty some of those blocks were just 10 years ago. It's only recently that the East Village has been getting taller projects built.

http://www.orchidsandonions.org/wp-content/uploads/pinnaclepark.jpg

[SacTownAndy]

Saw a tweet this morning from the Biz Journal saying that Vanir Tower was moved back to "waiting" status as opposed to "active" on City's website listing potential development.

[ozone]

Saw a tweet this morning from the Biz Journal saying that Vanir Tower was moved back to "waiting" status as opposed to "active" on City's website listing potential development.

Not surprised but neither am I really disappointed. I never cared for the design. When Downtown Sacramento does start to rise again I hope we'll have better designs than we've had in the past.

[Deno]

When is Marshall hotel project going to get started? That corner needs to be cleaned up.

[snfenoc]

Not surprised but neither am I really disappointed. I never cared for the design. When Downtown Sacramento does start to rise again I hope we'll have better designs than we've had in the past.

If Vanir is tenacious enough, I think this tower will get built, in some form or another. Of course, they'll probably use the David Taylor model - wait a long time and cheapen the building a bit.

[snfenoc]

When is Marshall hotel project going to get started? That corner needs to be cleaned up.

That corner certainly needs some TLC. However, I think a solid date for the hotel's construction is up in the air, because the developer may want a subsidy.

I can't find the exact article, but I think it came out about 2 weeks ago in the SBJ: It focused on Mayor Steinberg's desire to spread $170 million (borrowed against future Transient Occupancy Tax revenue) among numerous projects. Originally, that money was only supposed to fund the Convention Center's expansion. Now, the mayor also wants an observation tower, an aquarium, an updated Old Town, and an Escalator to Nowhere. The article mentioned other possible destinations for the money, including the "Hyatt Centric" hotel on the Marshall site. It seems the developer is having trouble cobbling together enough money.

[urban_encounter]

That corner certainly needs some TLC. However, I think a solid date for the hotel's construction is up in the air, because the developer may want a subsidy.

I can't find the exact article, but I think it came out about 2 weeks ago in the SBJ: It focused on Mayor Steinberg's desire to spread $170 million (borrowed against future Transient Occupancy Tax revenue) among numerous projects. Originally, that money was only supposed to fund the Convention Center's expansion. Now, the mayor also wants an observation tower, an aquarium, an updated Old Town, and an Escalator to Nowhere. The article mentioned other possible destinations for the money, including the "Hyatt Centric" hotel on the Marshall site. It seems the developer is having trouble cobbling together enough money.


The Sacramento City Council would be certifiably insane to start handing out subsidies post Golden 1 Center opening. It's time to start letting the market there determine whether new hotels are constructed or not.

[snfenoc]

Well, a selling point for the arena was that it would be a catalyst for further development. If surrounding proposals STILL require subsidies, I'd say it ain't a very strong one.

[Pistola916]

Proposal # 2 (below) is my favorite but we shall see if there is a market for high-end condos.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/isvkor/picture140913413/ALTERNATES/FREE_640/Cresleigh


State to sell $2 million site for upscale condos overlooking Capitol Park

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article140913438.html#storylink=cpy

[snfenoc]

Proposal # 2 (below) is my favorite but we shall see if there is a market for high-end condos.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/isvkor/picture140913413/ALTERNATES/FREE_640/Cresleigh


State to sell $2 million site for upscale condos overlooking Capitol Park

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article140913438.html#storylink=cpy

Any of the proposals listed in that story would be a win for Sacramento. However, #2 is the clear winner in terms of looks, number of residences and retail. I'm not sure if the market can handle 76 high-end condos on top of the 45 that are near completion at DOCO. The first one on the list, which has fewer condos, might be more attainable. That said, I'm concerned that it won't make a difference in the number of residents; because I think will they have to demolish an existing apartment complex.

The third and fourth proposals on that list are plain and don't have a retail portion; I would like to see something that looks good and provides more street activation.

[CAGeoNerd]

That is a great spot for some infill and the project seems appropriately sized. Agreed that second one is the best design. Cross your fingers!

[ltsmotorsport]

I agree with you all on #2. Best programmed, best design, and that stretch of N Street could certainly use some activation from the retail. Let's hope the CADA board thinks like us.

[snfenoc]

#2 Has a good chance since Cresleigh Homes is the developer. It's pretty well-known company; and I think it probably has access to capital investment. I'm remain concerned about the number of high-end units; but that number could come down a bit and still make for a nice-looking mixed use project.

[snfenoc]

Not to belabor the point, but this is a pretty good read for those who wonder why Sacramento's skyline doesn't look like New York's. It is specific to hotels; however, I think the economic explanations translate to both office and residential.

New hotel could be a tough sell
April 6, 2017
By Mark Anderson
The Sacramento Business Journal
The city of Sa cramento may want a new downtown convention center hotel, but that doesn’t mean markets are ready to step in and build one.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/04/06/new-hotel-could-be-a-tough-sell.html

Takeaways from the article include:

- Sacramento's Average Room Rate is the HIGHEST it has ever been, but that's still less than HALF of San Francisco's.

- Sacramento cannot compete with the prices in coastal cities, which are ridiculous.

- A lot of travel to Sacramento is from government and state workers. They receive a much lower daily allowance than they do to coastal cities.

- Suburban Sacramento hotels have a better chance. They are usually 4 stories or less; therefore, they cost less than 3 times the price per room (of a downtown hotel) to build.

- Any big proposals will likely require a subsidy; and they will probably need to be high-end.

Basically, Sacramento is a Midwestern city that is getting held to coastal economic standards. Its prices will have to come way up, which means its affordability will go way down. If I am a business or pleasure traveler, why would I choose to stay in Sacramento for the same price as staying San Francisco?

[snfenoc]

Proposal # 2 (below) is my favorite but we shall see if there is a market for high-end condos.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/isvkor/picture140913413/ALTERNATES/FREE_640/Cresleigh


State to sell $2 million site for upscale condos overlooking Capitol Park

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article140913438.html#storylink=cpy

It looks like this proposal from Cresleigh Homes is the winning submission for 14th and N Streets. According to the SBJ, it has to do with the company's finances. This is good news to me. Let's hope it gets built!

Sadly, a 30-unit CADA apartment complex will be demolished to make room. While the current residents will be relocated to other CADA apartments, this goes to show that Sacramento is getting less and less affordable.

[ltsmotorsport]

Good news all around on the selected project. I agree though with the new building taking the place of the older building/units though, and it would be nice to see where the money goes from the sale of this land; updating existing units or maybe going towards the proposed project at 17th and S?

[kamehameha]

CIM Group interested in building a 40 story highrise at 301 Capitol Mall

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/04/exclusivecim-group-inquires-about-fees-on-40-story.html

[CAGeoNerd]

CIM Group interested in building a 40 story highrise at 301 Capitol Mall

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/04/exclusivecim-group-inquires-about-fees-on-40-story.html

:tup: :cheers:

Though I find the vagueness and length of that "article" teasing.

[snfenoc]

CIM Group interested in building a 40 story highrise at 301 Capitol Mall

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/04/exclusivecim-group-inquires-about-fees-on-40-story.html

It's nice to know that the property is still on everyone's radar. It helps that CalPERS owns the site. (Maybe they can provide some financial backing?) Additionally, CIM is a pretty good developer to have.

Unfortunately, office rents need to rise about 20%+ before building new is feasible. Additionally, the Vanir tower proposal is a bit farther ahead with at least one major tenant (Vanir); it's also quite a bit smaller and probably cheaper. Attempts to attract relocating businesses have not gone well (at least for Class A office space); but maybe we need to double our efforts. Without more demand or seeing construction costs come way down (that'll be the day), we could be waiting a long time.

[urban_encounter]

Not sure what CIM is thinking?? But at the risk of sounding like a broken record:

1) There's no market for high rise class A office space currently that would make this pencil out. The state requires larger floor plates so a new state leased high rise is unlikely.

2) There's no established market for high rise residential condos in Sacramento at the price point they would likely need, in order to help this pencil out.

3) The condos in the Sawyer still need to show strong sales to demonstrate a demand for residential high rise (mid rise) living.

4) Unless CIM is planning a really big parking garage to siphon off day and evening (G1C) parking from nearby lots??? :uhh:

[CAGeoNerd]

Not sure what CIM is thinking?? But at the risk of sounding like a broken record:

1) There's no market for high rise class A office space currently that would make this pencil out. The state requires larger floor plates so a new state leased high rise is unlikely.

2) There's no established market for high rise residential condos in Sacramento at the price point they would likely need, in order to help this pencil out.

3) The condos in the Sawyer still need to show strong sales to demonstrate a demand for residential high rise (mid rise) living.

4) Unless CIM is planning a really big parking garage to siphon off day and evening (G1C) parking from nearby lots??? :uhh:

But why? If they were able to propose two huge towers on this site and supposedly sold a bunch of units in it only to have the economy/housing collapse pull out the rug, why can't they do so now??

[kamehameha]

Propose a mixed-used development for the 40 story highrise. Do a parking, retail, apartment and condotel combo. A lot of the completed and under construction buildings here in San Francisco are mixed-used. Case in point is the new Transbay terminal building(1070 ft). the last five stories will be wedding/party venues and obseration platform. I pass infront of that building everyday.

[urban_encounter]

But why? If they were able to propose two huge towers on this site and supposedly sold a bunch of units in it only to have the economy/housing collapse pull out the rug, why can't they do so now??

I understand the sentiment of what you're saying but the Saca "Towers" and Craig Nassi's "Aura" were failed ventures. If they had been built then Sacramento's skyline would have dramatically changed, because it would have demonstrated to lending institutions that these kinds of projects could be financially viable in Sacramento, just as much as they are in Portland or Austin (or pick your second tier market). I believe it was Deutsche Bank in consultation with CalPERS that pulled the rug out from under Saca partly because of rapidly rising construction costs and the turning economy.

But as others have pointed out Sacramento's construction costs mirror those of LA, SF and San Diego but the price that developers can charge in Sacramento for a residential unit is only a fraction of those markets. Developers can still squeeze high rises into those markets and earn more money than they can in Sacramento. It would take a local developer with motivation (like John Saca) but with more resources and experience to deliver one of these projects.

Cal PERS and CIM definitely have the resources and expertise to pull off a large mixed use project but Cal PERS is in business to maximize profits of Cal PERS members and not simply for the sake of developing Sacramento's skyline.

[kamehameha]

Another mid-rise proposal. this is all we can do for now, no high-rise all mid-rises.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/09/exclusiveplans-ready-to-go-for-empty-site-near-r.html

[innov8]

Another mid-rise proposal. this is all we can do for now, no high-rise all mid-rises.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/09/exclusiveplans-ready-to-go-for-empty-site-near-r.html

This is a recycled proposal from 11 years ago. The designs the same for the
same block on S Street. It’s more of a low-rise sense it’s below 100 feet.

[Schmoe]

Another mid-rise proposal. this is all we can do for now, no high-rise all mid-rises.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/09/exclusiveplans-ready-to-go-for-empty-site-near-r.html

I've long since put high-rise greed aside. These days I am for anything that removes blight and adds residences to downtown/midtown.

[Pistola916]

Looks like Yamanee will be delayed days after the developer said the project would break ground this year.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/09/with-yamanee-project-delayed-the-coconut-midtowns.html

[snfenoc]

It's a nice looking proposal.

According to the article, the developer has yet to obtain financing. They hope to get some cap-and-trade dollars to help fill the gaps. However, this money is usually awarded to projects in coastal California cities.

This is yet another project I'll add to my "I'll Believe it When I See it" List.

[Justbuildit]

It's a nice looking proposal.

According to the article, the developer has yet to obtain financing. They hope to get some cap-and-trade dollars to help fill the gaps. However, this money is usually awarded to projects in coastal California cities.

This is yet another project I'll add to my "I'll Believe it When I See it" List.

Lol. :haha: Imagine what Sacramento's skyline would look like if there was no San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose and all the focus was on the Central Valley.

[CAGeoNerd]

Sacramento Is California's Newest Real-Estate Hot Spot (https://www.wsj.com/articles/sacramento-is-californias-newest-real-estate-hot-spot-1495721355)

Well, that's interesting. Someone should tell some developers.

[SacTownAndy]

Article in the Bee today talking about the new state office tower at 7th & O. Sounds like they're looking into the option of building around the Heilbron House instead of moving it. Reminds me of that one highrise in Denver that was built around an old church.

Preliminary design is "20 stories and 300 feet tall".

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article154048834.html

[CastleScott]

Reminds me of that one highrise in Denver that was built around an old church.


Yeah that's the 1999 Broadway building 43 stories and about 550ft completed in 1985 around the Holy Ghost Church.

This sounds like a nice project of the state..

Oh btw I noticed the other day that the Sac city council ok'ed a proposal to expand/renovate the convention center which could lead to some future new downtown hotel rooms.

[innov8]

Yikes, the state has a miserable track record when it comes to designing anything
downtown. Does the BOE tower on N Street ring a bell? Its ugly and it makes people
sick, and the East End Complex is hardly something to be proud of.

When the state builds, they don’t need approval from anyone in Sacramento. Sure, they
might hold a few meeting with residents and ask for the cities opinion, but it’s all a
show and they will build whatever they want.

How many blocks south of Capitol Mall are surface parking lots owned by the state?
Quite a few. They were all neighborhoods at one time and then in 1950’s they were
demolished by the state and have sit empty ever since. Now the state picks a block
that has one historic house built in 1881 for possible demolition? It’s unlikely but it’s
being considered.

I expect nothing more than a mediocre building. It will be big filling up the entire block
and put a few cranes in the air, but the design will suck just like all the other times the
state has crapped out buildings downtown.

[wburg]

Check out the EIR for the building: http://sacrbr.aecomonline.net/ceqa.htm . It's worth a read--if you want to skip the boring stuff, look at Chapters 2 and 3, the executive summary and project description.

Currently, the plan is to leave the Heilbron mansion in place, restore it, and make it into the centerpiece of a public plaza for the new building. The cry to save the mansion was huge, and included both city and state electeds. City officials might not make much to the state, but Assembly/Senate members do, and they stood up to this. I'm not expecting great artistry from the state for this building, but it will be nice to see something besides a parking lot there, with the mansion as its centerpiece. The building has been a restaurant, a bank, and an art gallery--who knows what else it could be in this new plan?

Sure, the BOE building was terrible, but the 1980s were not a good time for architecture.

A surprising number of those 1960s parking lots (1950s was when the City knocked down the neighborhood on Capitol Avenue west of 7th, the state knocked down the stuff south of the Capitol a decade later) have turned into other things--CADA has built more than a thousand new units of housing, in addition to office properties, and has more plans for some of those parking lots in the near future. In fact, they recently acquired their first new property in a long time, behind Safeway on 18th, and CFY just submitted their plans to the city to build a midrise building with more than 150 apartments including 40% affordable housing units.

[urban_encounter]

Check out the EIR for the building: http://sacrbr.aecomonline.net/ceqa.htm . It's worth a read--if you want to skip the boring stuff, look at Chapters 2 and 3, the executive summary and project description.

Currently, the plan is to leave the Heilbron mansion in place, restore it, and make it into the centerpiece of a public plaza for the new building. The cry to save the mansion was huge, and included both city and state electeds. City officials might not make much to the state, but Assembly/Senate members do, and they stood up to this. I'm not expecting great artistry from the state for this building, but it will be nice to see something besides a parking lot there, with the mansion as its centerpiece. The building has been a restaurant, a bank, and an art gallery--who knows what else it could be in this new plan?

Sure, the BOE building was terrible, but the 1980s were not a good time for architecture.

A surprising number of those 1960s parking lots (1950s was when the City knocked down the neighborhood on Capitol Avenue west of 7th, the state knocked down the stuff south of the Capitol a decade later) have turned into other things--CADA has built more than a thousand new units of housing, in addition to office properties, and has more plans for some of those parking lots in the near future. In fact, they recently acquired their first new property in a long time, behind Safeway on 18th, and CFY just submitted their plans to the city to build a midrise building with more than 150 apartments including 40% affordable housing units.


Thanks for the link. I'm glad they're preserving the Heilbron house because it's really a lense into Sacramento's history. I remember when it was the Galleria Posada.

I agree with you about the state designs of the past especially the 80s and the aweful East End project in the early 2000s. I'm hopeful the state will at least give Sacramento a clean project and not some menacing monstrosity clad in dark windows (again) that's another dead zone. It will be interesting to see the finished project in relation to the Heilbron house.

[ozone]

I'm not a fan of historic homes and buildings completely isolated from their original context. I would much prefer they move it to another location. I really don't want to see another SOB built in the O Street corridor anyway. Would much prefer housing.

[SacTownAndy]

Metropolitan plans re-submitted to the city. Any opinions on if it'll happen this time? I try to remain optimistic but...

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/06/16/saca-re-submits-metropolitan-high-rise-plan.html

There was also something in the Bee quoting Saca: "Saca representative Rasmussen said on Friday that the new Golden 1 Center arena is helping to improve the downtown development market. The plan is still for a high-rise in hospitality. We would hope to have something concrete and have a project moving forward within a year, he said."

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article156677899.html

[kamehameha]

Good timing for John Saca. The Mayor of Sacramento is proposing a new hotel to complement the convention center renovation.

[CastleScott]

^ Wow that plan of John Saca's with the top of that spire in that rendering could make for a new Sacramento tallest.:)

[innov8]

John Saca needs “help” from the city. What do you think the subsidy amount would be?
$3 million, $5 million or more? The list of subsidized projects is getting longer every year.

[urban_encounter]

Yeah I think any subsidy on the city's part would be a mistake. The city already contributed to the G1C and recently approved millions of $$$ towards renovation of the Convention Center and Community Center Theater. It's time they allowed the market to dictate hotel construction.

Now if they want to consider tax breaks or tax deferments to help Saca (or whoever) then that might be worth considering but Saca is probably looking for a lot more than tax breaks.

[CAGeoNerd]

Yeah I think any subsidy on the city's part would be a mistake. The city already contributed to the G1C and recently approved millions of $$$ towards renovation of the Convention Center and Community Center Theater. It's time they allowed the market to dictate hotel construction.

Now if they want to consider tax breaks or tax deferments to help Saca (or whoever) then that might be worth considering but Saca is probably looking for a lot more than tax breaks.

Agreed - I have no problem with the city subsidizing affordable housing and getting people living on the grid. Subsidizing an office tower or high-end condos though, absolutely not.

[wburg]

The Metropolitan project has been resubmitted--it is unchanged from the original 2007 proposal. The explanation accompanying the application says that the developer believes that the project is now feasible. No mention of requesting city subsidy in the narrative, but it doesn't necessarily have to be there. No mention of any affordable housing or other tradeoffs in return for a subsidy or tax credit either.

[innov8]

So the big test will be the pre-selling of half the 320 residential units so that
banks will consider it viable. That's a high mark to meet, also unlikely IMO.

[enigma99a]

So the big test will be the pre-selling of half the 320 residential units so that
banks will consider it viable. That's a high mark to meet, also unlikely IMO.

No longer 190 units? If so that would be 95 units. I'm optimistic about it

[Dieler]

In fact if I can stomach the price I will likely be a purchaser.

[innov8]

No longer 190 units? If so that would be 95 units. I'm optimistic about it

Where do you get 190 units? If the proposal is resubmitted and unchanged
from the original 2007 proposal it would be 320 units (http://www.saca.biz/index_files/Page521.htm). The L Street Lofts still
have not sold all their units, of the 92 in the building about 80 have been
sold... this is 9 years after it's completed.

[enigma99a]

Where do you get 190 units? If the proposal is resubmitted and unchanged
from the original 2007 proposal it would be 320 units (http://www.saca.biz/index_files/Page521.htm). The L Street Lofts still
have not sold all their units, of the 92 in the building about 80 have been
sold... this is 9 years after it's completed.

From the downtownsac site. Maybe the hotel component has a larger footprint and also what Saca possibly might ask for a subsidy on.

As for L street lofts, I wouldn't buy one either but the metropolitan would be something I'd consider

[gillynova]

I've been looking for a Sacramento Development thread for awhile. Hello from San Jose/Bay Area/San Francisco threads :)

Can someone give me a rundown of what is going on in Sacramento such as proposed buildings and/or under construction? All I know was the restaurants and hotel next to Golden 1 Center.

I'm a huge Kings fan by the way. I hope De'Aaron Fox will be our savior

[SacTownAndy]

I've been looking for a Sacramento Development thread for awhile. Hello from San Jose/Bay Area/San Francisco threads :)

Can someone give me a rundown of what is going on in Sacramento such as proposed buildings and/or under construction? All I know was the restaurants and hotel next to Golden 1 Center.

I'm a huge Kings fan by the way. I hope De'Aaron Fox will be our savior

Welcome to the Sacto forum. The Business Journal recently ran a series of articles highlighting some of the larger projects around town. In this article there are links to drill down to see project detail for different parts of the center city: downtown, midtown, R St, Broadway, West Sac, etc.


http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/19/redefining-the-core-your-guide-to-major-projects.html

[enigma99a]

There is also https://www.downtownsac.org/developments/emerging-projects/

[CAGeoNerd]

Ground preparation for the (hopefully) MLS stadium to be built just started:

Big step in Sacramento’s Major League Soccer bid (http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article163854248.html)

New renderings:
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/mls/article163960812.html

[gillynova]

Ground preparation for the (hopefully) MLS stadium to be built just started:

Big step in Sacramento’s Major League Soccer bid (http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article163854248.html)

New renderings:
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/mls/article163960812.html

Wow, that's a nice MLS stadium! That will be an amazing addition for the region of Sacramento and help bring in people to downtown.

[kamehameha]

Marshall Hotel

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article170743637.html

[LandofFrost]

Marshall Hotel

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article170743637.html

YAY, I've been wondering for a year, what the heck was going on with this place.

[CAGeoNerd]

Marshall Hotel

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article170743637.html

Just when they clear that area of the cranes and construction barriers, sounds like it's moving back into action! Just in time for the NBA season...

[kamehameha]

Another ground breaking for a mid rise at 1430Q
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/09/14/exclusive-eight-story-mixed-use-project-1430-q.html

[urbanadvocate]

How is the vacancy for some of the newer buildings--especially that horrendous new MOB....I mean apartment building on N and 16?

[ozone]

Another ground breaking for a mid rise at 1430Q
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/09/14/exclusive-eight-story-mixed-use-project-1430-q.html

This is good news.I've been wondering when they were going to break ground. There's been a lot of projects completed in that area in the last few years and several more are under-construction right now - The Ice Blocks or course; and the California Brownstones at the corner of 17th and Q, and SKK Development has a number of projects east of this like Q19 at Q and 19th and 20PQR which has already sold most of their phase one townhouses. Their Press Building at the site of Sacramento Bee parking garage hasn't broke ground yet but it's supposed to be one of the largest housing projects built in Midtown. But it's not going to be very high. I think only 5 floors. It makes me wonder why those parking lots at J and 16th remain untouched? Not even a hint of a proposal.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

This is good news.I've been wondering when they were going to break ground. There's been a lot of projects completed in that area in the last few years and several more are under-construction right now - The Ice Blocks or course; and the California Brownstones at the corner of 17th and Q, and SKK Development has a number of projects east of this like Q19 at Q and 19th and 20PQR which has already sold most of their phase one townhouses. Their Press Building at the site of Sacramento Bee parking garage hasn't broke ground yet but it's supposed to be one of the largest housing projects built in Midtown. But it's not going to be very high. I think only 5 floors. It makes me wonder why those parking lots at J and 16th remain untouched? Not even a hint of a proposal.

Four floors with double height lofts at the northeast corner.

[CAGeoNerd]

That is a great project for some more mid-rise fill on the grid. Going to anchor Fremont Park well with the new midrise on 16th street across the park, and give a little more substance to the adjacent R street corridor. :cheers:

[ltsmotorsport]

Don't forget to add in 19J to the list of recent groundbreakings. Their piling appears to be done and I'm sure we'll see some concrete being poured out very soon, and going vertical shortly after.

[snfenoc]

Anybody heard recent info about Yamanee?

[Majin]

Anybody heard recent info about Yamanee?

There was a SBJ article saying its been delayed due to financing (I'm assuming the developer couldn't get financing.

Curious how projects like 19J and the 15th and Q mid/highrises can get funding but Yamanee can't.

I'm starting to believe the issue is not "highrise apartments don't pencil out in Sacramento", but the real issues being the developers that happen to own the particular properties are not big time/experienced urban developers.

I think over the next 2 years as there midtown highrises along with the DoCo tower are a success the argument that urban highrise doesn't pencil out in Sacramento won't be credible.