DUBAI | Burj Khalifah (Burj Dubai) | 828 M / 2,716.5 FT - Pinnacle | 162 FLOORS

[M.K.]

I also think it is sure the 807,7m ;) , because they would not pay more before for doing the project, investions in time and money to have less now:koko: . I don`t think they will go higher because the reasons said :koko: . Only the pinnacle or spire could change a bit, but that is not bldg floor to be used properly and count on, it is only a mark on top of a hill. It is difficult to change a complete project in this stage only to make some desire :shrug: . The only inconvenient is time that could make some ashame having less to complete the project on time, but then some companies who bought the bldg would fight for some recompensation in law to receiving less of floors. :hell: :haha: so, at the end we will have something between 800-850m and I am glad to it.:)

[DUBAI2015]

^ You used alot of smileys there!

[dubai 1]

i'm going with 850m, in feet that would be a mind blowing 2,788 ft. it's just 42m short of the 808 version

[SFUVancouver]

Could someone who has seen the tv show about the Burj Dubai please explain for the rest of us all of the construction delays it talked about?

-5 months to train people to lay brick? (why were they hired as bricklayers if they didn't know their trade?)
-The curtainwall failed wind and leak tests, and isn't flat? (Someone got fired)
-Cannot build higher due to... what exactly? Height/wind factors, foundation limits, time constraints, budgetary constraints? (hard to imagine w/ the criminally low price of labour and EMAAR's bottomless pockets)

[SteveD]

I saw the show and it was interesting but lacked depth in a couple areas, but you can't fault them, since they only had an hour to develop the story lines.

The CMU interior demising wall construction was largely explained away as being very common in Europe and the Americas and virtually unknown in the middle and far East. They simply said it was a lack of skilled workers familiar with the materials and techniques. Why, on a multi-billion dollar project, they could BRING IN skilled workers for this construction item, I don't know.

The window wall system wasn't developed fully enough to really answer those questions. I found the TV show treatment of it to be confusing. Midway through the show they were showing the entire team walking around a full scale mock-up of the glazing, smiling and proclaiming that "everything had passed tests"...heat, static water, dynamic water, etc. Then, suddenly, later in the show, they introduced the concept that they were experiencing the problems you cited...streaking, flatness issues, etc. No explanation of how things went from A to B. To me, these seem to be issues that should have been worked out much earlier in the construction process.

Very little was offered about "building higher". The show stated on several occasions that the final height was a closely guarded secret. There was not a technical/architectural/engineering discussion about whether or not it could be accomplished. This issue, indeed much of the show, revolved around the critical need to maintain projected work schedules in order to meet commitments made to future building tenants. Over and over again in the show they were talking about how this issue was four weeks behind schedule, this other issue three months behind schedule, etc. The eventual height of the tower was discussed primarily in terms of "how high can it get before time runs out".

[2-TOWERS]

JUST WAIT TILL THE BUILDING IS FINISHED , AND MODERN MARVELS DOES A SHOW ON THE FINISHED BUILDING ITSELF:D

[ZZ-II]

yes, we simply must wait...if the tower's concrete core is still rising at over 160F we can be sure for over 800m :)

[oldpainless]

Could someone who has seen the tv show about the Burj Dubai please explain for the rest of us all of the construction delays it talked about?

-5 months to train people to lay brick? (why were they hired as bricklayers if they didn't know their trade?)
The vast majority of these laborers come from very poor areas in places like India and Pakistan. The contractors come dangling with prospects of earning money to support their families, but at the expense of forcing them to sign into 5 year or longer work contracts that forbids them to leave before their contract expires. So they ship them off to Dubai to build their projects where they house them in vast labor camps of substandard housing and living conditions. Its against the law in Dubai to form organized labor unions, so the coupling of labor contracts, substandard living conditions, and anti-union laws makes for almost slave-like conditions.

[WonderlandPark]

Yep, a case of you get what you pay for, shitty pay, shitty conditions and shitty work rules = shitty job performance.

[Chitown]

Yep, a case of you get what you pay for, shitty pay, shitty conditions and shitty work rules = shitty job performance.
It never ceases to amaze me how people are so willing to low-ball construction projects. Time and time again, it comes back to bite them in the ass. A building is not something you want to half-ass.

[MikeM]

It never ceases to amaze me how people are so willing to low-ball construction projects. Time and time again, it comes back to bite them in the ass. A building is not something you want to half-ass.

Tell that to almost every developer, client and most contractors, world-wide.

Most have never seen anything they didn't want to build cheaper, nastier and quicker to make a few more bucks...

[oldpainless]

Tell that to almost every developer, client and most contractors, world-wide.

Most have never seen anything they didn't want to build cheaper, nastier and quicker to make a few more bucks...
I'm all for free markets, but I can definitely see the necessity of organized labor in certain circumstances. Labor unions in America, Europe, etc. may have outlived their necessity, but Dubai could definitely benefit from unions if nothing else than to give those laborers more individual power to combat oppressive employers.

[M.K.]

If it would have labor union for the playmobils, it would not exist so many construction in UAE as it has, while the advantage doing the maximum for minimum is using a very cheap man-at-work hand from Indian, Pakistan and so on people. Better few than nothing in their country. Also in Brazil the construction people came from cheap nest from northeast and made the big favelas nowadays, as the boom of `70 years is out, but in dubai is different, the boom is still there, people after the contract end should have to leave the country. So the rotativity is very high and as family members in those countries are extreme large, there is always aboundancy in working force. If unions come like Europe, the advantage of that business become unexistent. It is a pity but it is the way like the world works. Also China is the same for shanghai boom, Beinjing and others. People are shipped out to Dubai to make it the country high for the less. If you do not want, you and zour family will continue to be in misery conditions. so, they take it it to brick up for at least something on hand for breathtaking at home.

[vanhenrik]

JUST WAIT TILL THE BUILDING IS FINISHED , AND MODERN MARVELS DOES A SHOW ON THE FINISHED BUILDING ITSELF:D

are you going to se the bulding wen its finiched ? i know i am !
i am going to take 2 weks in dubai in i think 2010 maybe 2009 more like 2010
wen all the rest of buldings are finiched !

ps. dubai forevr !

[AltinD]

I'm all for free markets, but I can definitely see the necessity of organized labor in certain circumstances. Labor unions in America, Europe, etc. may have outlived their necessity, but Dubai could definitely benefit from unions if nothing else than to give those laborers more individual power to combat oppressive employers.

Labour unions will NOT be allowed here for a very simple reason: 80 - 85% of population are foreigner contract workers, being unskilled, semi skilled, CEOs or multi millioner business owners.

None of them have a permanent working permit (and residence), which is limited to just 3 years and is dependant of your employement status.

You have a job, you stay; you don't, you must leave.

So people, before playing expert, first learn about the reality of life in here.

[AltinD]

The vast majority of these laborers come from very poor areas in places like India and Pakistan. The contractors come dangling with prospects of earning money to support their families, but at the expense of forcing them to sign into 5 year or longer work contracts that forbids them to leave before their contract expires. So they ship them off to Dubai to build their projects where they house them in vast labor camps of substandard housing and living conditions. Its against the law in Dubai to form organized labor unions, so the coupling of labor contracts, substandard living conditions, and anti-union laws makes for almost slave-like conditions.

That is FALSE. Working contracts here are of a maximum of 2 years, while the residence visa is for 3 years only, both of each can be renewed and are interconencted.

[buildup]

I, myself, would be afraid to go inside this tower if this this the status of the labor force. I noticed early on how thin the walls looked at the base. They better be building this to the requirements set forth or there might be a disaster in the future.

[brian_b]

That is FALSE. Working contracts here are of a maximum of 2 years, while the residence visa is for 3 years only, both of each can be renewed and are interconencted.


Thank you for the clarification, but the real issue that a few forumers are talking about has not been addressed.

The US and Europe had an incredibly rapid increase in industrial output many years ago, and it is extremely impressive considering the level of technology back then. Unions played a large role in this; but the real reason is not being discussed. Business owners did not like unions at all, not only because of higher wages and better working conditions (costs the employer more money). So why did the business owner put up with it??? Because it allowed them to make even more money than before. Costs increase by $X.XX, profit increases by $X.XX * 5. Very simple explanation - by keeping employees longer, they become better at what you want them to do.

If you spend 5 months training your workers to build a masonry wall, and they go home 2-3 years later never to return, you're right back in the same position for your next building. You bring in another group of workers and must waste another 5 months training them. It does not make any sense to me.

It is a failing of the employment system when, after hundreds of large buildings have been built in Dubai, they still must spend 5 months training workers to build simple wall structures.

After watching the TV show I was surprised at how many of the contractors and workers were not from Dubai. Here in the US, when you take economics classes at University, you will learn how a single dollar multiplies depending on how you spend it. For example, if you pay a worker $1, that worker turns around and buys food, shelter, clothing, etc. To be simple let's just follow the food chain. The food store takes that money and pays its employees and its suppliers. Those employees take that money and buy food, shelter, clothing, etc. The cycle continues until the fraction of the dollar is too small to continue tracking. You end up with mathematical formulas that define the benefit of spending money in many different ways.

Getting back to Dubai - the developer is paying a lot of money to build Burj Dubai. What percentage of that money leaves Dubai quickly? I am thinking that it is a lot. It seems that most of the workers and contractors are foreign - so most of their wages are immediately sent abroad. The supplies are mostly foreign but there is not much of anything Dubai can do about that. So it is wise to concentrate on what you can do something about - wages.

The fact is that paying workers more wages, keeping them in the country longer, and treating them better (all the goals of a union) turns out to benefit the economy of Dubai. You see, these workers will be more productive on the job, reducing delays and increasing quality and output. That saves Emaar money. They also will spend more money in Dubai, some of which will find its way back to Emaar in the form of profits. Other money will go to other companies who can then hire more people and offer more services and build more buildings.

In the end, higher wages will be more profitable for Emaar and other companies in Dubai. The Emirates must learn this if they are to succeed on a world stage!

[SoCal Alan]

Thank you for the clarification, but the real issue that a few forumers are talking about has not been addressed.

The US and Europe had an incredibly rapid increase in industrial output many years ago, and it is extremely impressive considering the level of technology back then. Unions played a large role in this; but the real reason is not being discussed. Business owners did not like unions at all, not only because of higher wages and better working conditions (costs the employer more money). So why did the business owner put up with it??? Because it allowed them to make even more money than before. Costs increase by $X.XX, profit increases by $X.XX * 5. Very simple explanation - by keeping employees longer, they become better at what you want them to do.


If it does benefit the employer, no one would know that better than the employer who is paying for the project. A smart employer would try to keep his best employees and pay them accordingly, especially if that employer invested in the training of that employee.

If you spend 5 months training your workers to build a masonry wall, and they go home 2-3 years later never to return, you're right back in the same position for your next building. You bring in another group of workers and must waste another 5 months training them. It does not make any sense to me.

It is a failing of the employment system when, after hundreds of large buildings have been built in Dubai, they still must spend 5 months training workers to build simple wall structures.

After watching the TV show I was surprised at how many of the contractors and workers were not from Dubai. Here in the US, when you take economics classes at University, you will learn how a single dollar multiplies depending on how you spend it. For example, if you pay a worker $1, that worker turns around and buys food, shelter, clothing, etc. To be simple let's just follow the food chain. The food store takes that money and pays its employees and its suppliers. Those employees take that money and buy food, shelter, clothing, etc. The cycle continues until the fraction of the dollar is too small to continue tracking. You end up with mathematical formulas that define the benefit of spending money in many different ways.

Getting back to Dubai - the developer is paying a lot of money to build Burj Dubai. What percentage of that money leaves Dubai quickly? I am thinking that it is a lot. It seems that most of the workers and contractors are foreign - so most of their wages are immediately sent abroad. The supplies are mostly foreign but there is not much of anything Dubai can do about that. So it is wise to concentrate on what you can do something about - wages.

The fact is that paying workers more wages, keeping them in the country longer, and treating them better (all the goals of a union) turns out to benefit the economy of Dubai. You see, these workers will be more productive on the job, reducing delays and increasing quality and output. That saves Emaar money. They also will spend more money in Dubai, some of which will find its way back to Emaar in the form of profits. Other money will go to other companies who can then hire more people and offer more services and build more buildings.

In the end, higher wages will be more profitable for Emaar and other companies in Dubai. The Emirates must learn this if they are to succeed on a world stage!

But paying too much is also problem because it increases costs, costs of the project and wages overall, which causes inflation. Also, the workers from foreign countries will out of a job. So, artificially increases wages causes the least skilled employees to lose their jobs. A smart employer will raise wages if it makes economic sense. The things you mention above, being more productive, reducing delays, etc., are things that must be weighed by the person paying the bills.

The fact that there are so many construction projects taking place is good for the employees, as long as those employees are free to leave to seek better jobs. However, there is a point which this can be overdone, so if I was an employer, I would want to have contracts for certain lengths of time, ie., 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, etc., This should be negotiated between employer and employee, freely.

[AltinD]

...If you spend 5 months training your workers to build a masonry wall, and they go home 2-3 years later never to return, you're right back in the same position for your next building. You bring in another group of workers and must waste another 5 months training them. It does not make any sense to me.

It is a failing of the employment system when, after hundreds of large buildings have been built in Dubai, they still must spend 5 months training workers to build simple wall structures.

It is not black and white. Not everybody goes home after 2 - 3 years. Of course keeping the working force for longer it might be beneficial in the long run, but not neccessarily so, other cost factors are involved as well.

...After watching the TV show I was surprised at how many of the contractors and workers were not from Dubai. Here in the US, when you take economics classes at University, you will learn how a single dollar multiplies depending on how you spend it. For example, if you pay a worker $1, that worker turns around and buys food, shelter, clothing, etc. To be simple let's just follow the food chain. The food store takes that money and pays its employees and its suppliers. Those employees take that money and buy food, shelter, clothing, etc. The cycle continues until the fraction of the dollar is too small to continue tracking. You end up with mathematical formulas that define the benefit of spending money in many different ways.

Getting back to Dubai - the developer is paying a lot of money to build Burj Dubai. What percentage of that money leaves Dubai quickly? I am thinking that it is a lot. It seems that most of the workers and contractors are foreign - so most of their wages are immediately sent abroad. The supplies are mostly foreign but there is not much of anything Dubai can do about that. So it is wise to concentrate on what you can do something about - wages..

Yes, as I stated earlier, 85% of Dubai's population is foreign expat. It's true that Billions go out of the city every year and becouse of no direct taxation, the Goverment doesn't make a penny, but that will be a narrow view of the situation.

First they are building something that it will stay in Dubai, contributing to Dubai's economy. They also do not get any beneffit from Dubai Goverment, which at the end would have to take care only for 15% of the population (Emirati nationals). Also those people will spend in here and have needs to be fullfilled, which will bring other people in serving them. More money will be spent, money that otherwise wouldn't have come.

...The fact is that paying workers more wages, keeping them in the country longer, and treating them better (all the goals of a union) turns out to benefit the economy of Dubai. You see, these workers will be more productive on the job, reducing delays and increasing quality and output. That saves Emaar money. They also will spend more money in Dubai, some of which will find its way back to Emaar in the form of profits. Other money will go to other companies who can then hire more people and offer more services and build more buildings.

In the end, higher wages will be more profitable for Emaar and other companies in Dubai. The Emirates must learn this if they are to succeed on a world stage!

Logically improving working/living condition of the working force should beneffit the country by improving the quality of the end product, but all these will add to inflation and in this specific time inflation is the main problem people are facing here. The cost of living has skyrocketed lately and increasing wages would only add more fuel to the fire. I don't know if it would be worth the price.

Anyway wages are not the main problem, (poor) living conditions and treatment are.

[dubai 1]

any new pics, i'm going with a little over 850m, and the highest floor around 700m, just imagine having a floor around 700m. with a clear view you could see the WORLD islands

[Via Chicago]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0702050042feb05,1,6612085.story


Dubai skyscraper missing its `curtain wall' exterior

By Blair Kamin
Tribune architecture critic
Published February 5, 2007

Something's gone amiss with the Burj Dubai, the 160-story skyscraper by Chicago architects Skidmore, Owings & Merrill that is expected to become the world's tallest building: It's all bones and no skin.

A key contractor on the tower in Dubai, part of the United Arab Emirates, has gone bankrupt, leaving its concrete structural frame -- now 110 stories high -- without any metal panels or glass to cover it. That skin is known as a "curtain wall."

"It is unusual for a building to go up 110 stories without any curtain wall on it," acknowledged George Efstathiou, a Skidmore partner working on the project, which is expected to cost close to $1 billion and soar at least 2,300 feet tall.

Typically, as in the Skidmore-designed, 1,362-foot Trump International Hotel & Tower now rising in Chicago, contractors erect the building's structural frame and another set of workers follows closely behind, attaching panels of glass and metal to enclose the interior.

Efstathiou disputed a report by Bloomberg News that the collapse of Switzerland-based Schmidlin Ltd. Facade Technology would disrupt the Burj Dubai's breakneck rush to completion.

"At this point, there is no change in the schedule," he said, adding that the target for completion is late 2008 or early 2009.

Although the erection of the curtain wall was supposed to begin nine to 10 months ago, a new curtain wall provider, Hong Kong-based Far East Aluminum Group, is on board, and it has helped devise a way to catch up, the architect said.

Instead of building the Burj Dubai's curtain wall from the bottom of the tower to the top, Efstathiou said, workers may erect the curtain wall at several spots on the tower simultaneously. That phase of the construction could start in March, the architect said.

The Burj Dubai's curtain wall is to be made of stainless steel, aluminum and glass.

The tower's structural frame is expected to top the current world's tallest building, the 1,671-foot Taipei 101 in Taiwan, in mid-May, Efstathiou said.

----------

bkamin@tribune.com

Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune

[SteveD]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0702050042feb05,1,6612085.story

Wow..that could be an interesting, exciting and rather unusual thing to see....the curtain wall going up at a high rate of speed in patchwork fashion at multiple building exterior elevation locations simultaneously...

[vanhenrik]

February 7th 2007 - Level 112 - Height 425.53m - Currently the 5th tallest highrise building in the world!


now burj dubai hawe surpasst the worrld trade center that stod in new york !
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :cheers:



Today the Burj Dubai Tower exceeded 112 above ground floors, exceeding the 421m Jin Mao tower in Shanghai!


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/01January/Burj-Dubai-Skyscraper-3104.jpg

http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/01January/Burj-Dubai-Skyscraper-3105.jpg

http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/01January/Burj-Dubai-Skyscraper-3106.jpg

http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/01January/Burj-Dubai-Skyscraper-3107.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5576/bd020307derek73dr666666ds0.png

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7395/bdrender020207mk0hghghgev7.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1798/photo05mb4ao4bc2.jpg

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9717/burjfeb32007iu4.jpg

a litle bit old http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3097/burjdubailargelevationsvm2.jpg


http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/961/speedupnc4.png

http://i19.tinypic.com/2m26nw8.jpg

http://i7.tinypic.com/43ryyde.jpg

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/415/photo01oc9.jpg

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7040/photo02gc6.jpg

http://xs512.xs.to/xs512/07056/bd3.jpg

http://xs512.xs.to/xs512/07056/bd4.jpg

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3585/bd0201072kf2gz9.jpg

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/141/bd0120072pixmixerky0zo0.jpg

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8955/photo05mb4ao4fy9.jpg

[M.K.]

Oh! The rendering photo in middle showing the complex already built including BD, Index an so on is great, I liked much. :tup: It seems some StarWars planet... :banana:

[PuyoPiyo]

Surpassed Jin Mao, and other one? I thought it was 7th tallest, and now 5th tallest. So which one else, I wouldn't include WTC because it is not standing anymore..

[X236K]

Surpassed Jin Mao, and other one? I thought it was 7th tallest, and now 5th tallest. So which one else, I wouldn't include WTC because it is not standing anymore..
2 international finance centre in HK? I'm not sure...

[HomeInMyShoes]

^According to Emporis' list you are correct with 2 International Finance in Hong Kong.

Next up is the Sears Tower at 442m.

[Bergenser]

The next tree to surpass will be beaten nearly at the same time.
BTW, has the official height been set to 808m or back to 705m?

[PuyoPiyo]

^According to Emporis' list you are correct with 2 International Finance in Hong Kong.

Next up is the Sears Tower at 442m.

Sears Tower, then Petronas Tower 1, then Petronas Towers 2 (actually same time :rolleyes: ), then it's time to say good bye to Taipei 101!:notacrook:

[Sky Tower]

:previous: According to EMAAR and Adrian smith 600m+, but it is still set to hit 1011m from my source at Besix. ;)

[Fury]

Hi all.
Jan 22 - Flickr

http://i12.tinypic.com/2j2hpg4.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/2u6ld7p.jpg

:cheers:

[phillyskyline]

Awesome pics... keep'em coming!

[DUBAI2015]

on the first picture it looks like the're making the world's largest stone doughnut!

[dubai 1]

:previous: According to EMAAR and Adrian smith 600m+, but it is still set to hit 1011m from my source at Besix. ;)
that's funny becasue he even presented a model at 700m, then the prince of dubai let him go as high as he wanted

[Beyond 1000]

:previous: According to EMAAR and Adrian smith 600m+, but it is still set to hit 1011m from my source at Besix. ;)


Hey Skytower, I really love your analysis on dubaimegaprojects webpage. What I enjoy most is your posted height and the floors above ground along with the latest analysis and information below the most recent date you bring.

They actually have on site GPS to measure height? Wow that is something.

With all this information and misinformation about a lowering height to 705m, what do you make of all this? Also, your sources at Besix still tell you of 1,011m. Given the height of 425m at present, can they actually add almost 600m to what we see today? Will they actually go that high? Is your source, without naming it of course, extremely reliable?

Thanks for reading this and keep up the good job. :)

[2-TOWERS]

the spire will make up most of it, the easy way to add extra height
former 1 WTC WILL TELL YOU THAT

[-GR2NY-]

^ I'm pretty sure everyone realizes that. This spire will be one of the tallest ever constructed.

[vanhenrik]

Burj Dubai Serviced Apartments

http://www.emaar.com/VRTours/VR_Tour_Hi/burjdubai_servicedappts/index.htm


Burj Dubai Lake Hotel

http://www.emaar.com/VRTours/VR_Tour_Hi/burjdubai_lakehotel/index.htm

[M.K.]

Nice rooms. :banana:

[oldpainless]

I agree that employee retention is good for productivity, but you said:
"Costs increase by $X.XX, profit increases by $X.XX * 5"
You're not taking into account the fact that cost increases will drive up the cost of the residencial units which will subsequently drive down demand. So it doesn't inherently increase profits. Even a place like Dubai is subject to the laws of supply and demand. My guess is that these guys are getting paid so little that they can easily cover the costs of job training. For example, part of the reason why the Trump Tower Chicago will cost about as much to build as the Burj Dubai is because of expensive, yet skilled, labor. I bet you that Emaar is ending up saving money on their super cheap labor + job training method.

[ZZ-II]

^ I'm pretty sure everyone realizes that. This spire will be one of the tallest ever constructed.

tallest tower with tallest spire :), what's so special :D

[Sky Tower]

Hey Skytower, I really love your analysis on dubaimegaprojects webpage. What I enjoy most is your posted height and the floors above ground along with the latest analysis and information below the most recent date you bring.

They actually have on site GPS to measure height? Wow that is something.

With all this information and misinformation about a lowering height to 705m, what do you make of all this? Also, your sources at Besix still tell you of 1,011m. Given the height of 425m at present, can they actually add almost 600m to what we see today? Will they actually go that high? Is your source, without naming it of course, extremely reliable?

Thanks for reading this and keep up the good job. :)
Thanks :tup:

Well the cats been out of the bag for a while now as to who it is.... Besix' Design Project Manager - Professor Bauduin who is based at Brussels University....forumly known as the infamous TechE!

All design implications and changes go directly through him. Apparently EMAAR are furious and have tried to impose a gagging order upon him, which he refused to sign! I think after reviewing the situation, they've succumb to his eccentric nature and given up as he's using a third party for speculative updates (me!) and very few people are taking the info as seriously as they should. About 90% of the people on this forum don't really buy its authenticity and carry on coming up with the same old 705m/805m/940m crap.
I've got to the point now where I don't even bother defending it now, just quietly posting the updates for all to see.

From what I am led to believe, the concrete section will be considerably higher with the use of re-pumping and hopper work above 540m.
With the increased concrete floors from 145 to 156 until the start of the mezzanine and the ever increasing floor height from the 808m version the top of concrete construction has been raised from 531m to 647m.

The whole steel structure is 45% bigger again to what it was in the 808m version, and the remainder of the floors are contained within, with a much more gradual and elegant arrow like taper!

I believe the top 12 floors are uninhabitable and form part of the start of the pinnacle, housing only conduits and lighting!

Hope that answers a few questions? ;)

[-GR2NY-]

Thanks :tup:

Well the cats been out of the bag for a while now as to who it is.... Besix' Design Project Manager - Professor Bauduin who is based at Brussels University....forumly known as the infamous TechE!

All design implications and changes go directly through him. Apparently EMAAR are furious and have tried to impose a gagging order upon him, which he refused to sign! I think after reviewing the situation, they've succumb to his eccentric nature and given up as he's using a third party for speculative updates (me!) and very few people are taking the info as seriously as they should. About 90% of the people on this forum don't really buy its authenticity and carry on coming up with the same old 705m/805m/940m crap.
I've got to the point now where I don't even bother defending it now, just quietly posting the updates for all to see.

From what I am led to believe, the concrete section will be considerably higher with the use of re-pumping and hopper work above 540m.
With the increased concrete floors from 145 to 156 until the start of the mezzanine and the ever increasing floor height from the 808m version the top of concrete construction has been raised from 531m to 647m.

The whole steel structure is 45% bigger again to what it was in the 808m version, and the remainder of the floors are contained within, with a much more gradual and elegant arrow like taper!

I believe the top 12 floors are uninhabitable and form part of the start of the pinnacle, housing only conduits and lighting!

Hope that answers a few questions? ;)


So whats the roof height (including those 12 uninhabitable floors) and whats the pinnacle height, from your sources?

[NYC2ATX]

Hi all.
Jan 22 - Flickr
http://i10.tinypic.com/2u6ld7p.jpg



I really like this picture because it shows all the smaller surrounding buildings, as well as the tower.

[mightygoose]

http://i12.tinypic.com/2j2hpg4.jpg my fav pic cos you cant see the top.... and i pray that skytowers words are true....

[Beyond 1000]

Skytower that answers a ton of questions. YOU ROCK!

GR2NY, unless my calculations are off, I now have the height to roof or parapet just before the actual final spire begins at 869m and then the spire to 1011m. This calculation was done as follows...

739m (original height minus final spire) minus 586m (original height to top of concrete) gives us 153m. If we go approximately by Skytower's 45% height increase of steel structure, then we multiply 153m x 45% of which we get 69m rounded off (actual calculation 68.85m) for a total height of 222m rounded off (actual calculation 221.85m). We then add this 222m height of steel structure (minus final spire of course) to the newly revealed 647m top of concrete height and we then get the calculated height of 869m as I mentioned above.

Please bear in mind that this does not account for any changes in final spire height. The final spire could easily be lengthened thus the 869m main structure could be slightly lower.

At this point according to Skytower's super source, Burj Dubai cannot be less than 800m structual height not including spire. I feel it would be at least in the low 800m range and then the final spire up.

Now that said, can anybody analyse my analysis please and if you find a flaw or a glitch in my calculations, please give us some insight so I can be corrected.

At this point I like to take this moment to thank Skytower for his incredible efforts on this thread and I stand behind his analysis of the project.

Lotta fun, lotta fun.

[Hollie Maea]

About 90% of the people on this forum don't really buy its authenticity and carry on coming up with the same old 705m/805m/940m crap.
I've got to the point now where I don't even bother defending it now, just quietly posting the updates for all to see.





Skytower, if you could get an explanation from him what was the deal with the fakey looking "website" that he set up on a former bankruptcy adwords optimizer site, that would help a lot. It's been hard for me to believe him since I saw that site, especially the source code for the "login" page.

[Sky Tower]

:previous: I forget now the name of the company who builds the site for Besix but I asked the same question before Christmas. Allegedly it was a defunct test site for the web developers to test file transfer protocols for internet sites and the site was only used for testing html code. It's apparent that this old site was in the companies client list but no longer needed, so on the remote testing server the test html code was overlooked and not removed. An intern brought this to Prof B's attention and he thought it funny that such a closely guarded secret would be floating around in the ethos, so he signed up only to post that one link, having no love loss for the powers that be!
Curious as to it's implications, he dropped more and more hints and got a bit carried away giving too much detail that people dismissed it all as that brown stuff that sticks to your shoe!
The fact that more people shunned the info, caused him to post more info which just ended up fueling the fire he'd created. As an outsider, I would probably have shown just as much contempt as others have too!

All I can say is.....soon enough we will see!

[AltinD]

I don't understand why people still judge the authenticity (or not) of TechE's infos by the dodgy website they're linked. That is absolutely IRRELEVANT, you either have faith and hope the infos given are genuine .... or you don't belive on them and just dismiss them as BS. As simple as that.

BTW new killer updates today from Imre (SSC)

[ZZ-II]

which height the BD will be we'll see first after the last mechanical floors

[SkyWatcher]

Chitown...not only are you right but it's much closer to home than you realize. EVERY SINGLE new home built today in the US represents a very similar pattern. The cheapest of EVERYTHING is used in the process including illegal laborers. I hate the way builders are cheating people on new houses.

Say someone buys a new $450k McMansion....would you be shocked to know that the builder paid $325k to get it built? How about if you knew he made over $100k from that one sale alone? It's not uncommon at all.

I am surprised that anyone buys any new homes, you couldn't pay me to own one.

[DUBAI2015]

2/8/2007
http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0903.jpg
http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0911.jpg

Looks like some glass is going on.
http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0909.jpg

[PHX602]

This thing looks silly to me, I'm used to seeing the tallest buildings in the world in places like Chicago and NY where they have nowhere else to build but up. Here they are building the tallest building in the world that is surrounded by dirt lots. Still a great looking building nonetheless.

[malec]

My PC is working again!!!
Time to post a new render :)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6862/fixcomp12eh6.jpg

[skymetalscraper]

My PC is working again!!!
Time to post a new render :)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6862/fixcomp12eh6.jpg

:worship: :banana: :rock: :slob: i'm drooling

[Musicisright]

Burj Dubai Serviced Apartments

http://www.emaar.com/VRTours/VR_Tour_Hi/burjdubai_servicedappts/index.htm

In the bedroom, I swear there is a framed picture of Ashton Kutcher on the bedside table.

[vanhenrik]

http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0903.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0910.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0911.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0918.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0925.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0932.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0938.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0939.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0949.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0954.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0948.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0950.jpg

http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0951.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0952.jpg


http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2007/02February/Burj-Dubai-Tower-02-0953.jpg




:banana: :previous: :cheers: :D :tup:

[Bergenser]

Nice new pictures! :tup:

[MattSal]

Looking good. Thanks for ze update.

[zerokarma]

Excellent update :tup:

[Dac150]

Its a city growing out of the sand!

[kenratboy]

Wow!!! Great pictures!

It is REALLY starting to look tall now. Cannot believe how many other buildings are going up. Where are the people coming from to live there?

[Tom_Green]

Hey skytower hasn`t you source told you that the facade will be installed in April?

:previous: Many people scoffed at me (mainly at SSC) when I announced an April earliest cladding start back in November!

It's nice to now it's been confirmed elsewhere!



http://i8.tinypic.com/3zuqnlx.jpg

[Scruffy]

beautiful tower but all those other white residentials are nasty

[vanhenrik]

:banana: Wow!!! Great pictures!

It is REALLY starting to look tall now. Cannot believe how many other buildings are going up. Where are the people coming from to live there?

it isent even half way bylt yet ! its going to b 1011 meeter tall !

[colemonkee]

Cladding looks very similar to Trump Tower Chicago. That's a good thing. This is starting to get very exciting.

[vanhenrik]

view from 108 floor

http://i15.tinypic.com/47l0flx.jpg


http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8975/photo25ki9.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/865/photo21qv2.jpg
http://i4.tinypic.com/3zvwrwp.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/30kayxy.jpg
http://i16.tinypic.com/33li70p.jpg
http://i17.tinypic.com/2eapd6o.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/3y6bmky.jpg
http://i5.tinypic.com/4igkozb.jpg
http://i4.tinypic.com/4hrpan5.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/40d9bp0.jpg
its looking like the cladding has started

http://i6.tinypic.com/400rxfr.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/2mfnj8x.jpg


this is wery fun ! i rely hope this bulding is going to be 1011 meeters !

[DUBAI2015]

I just hope this isn't another failed attempt at the cladding. :slob:
Hopefully we could start seeing a couple of floors of glass by the end of the month! :banana:

[SteveD]

damn...that's got to be what...thousands of window panes? tens of thousands? anyone have a wild guestimate?

[Ghost]

I think it's going to be hundred thousand panels...

[Tom Servo]

1011m? I really don't think this thing will be any taller than 800m.

[Sky Tower]

Hey skytower hasn`t you source told you that the facade will be installed in April?





http://i8.tinypic.com/3zuqnlx.jpg
That's correct Tom, I've had no update to the contrary. Unfortunately, it's just the 3rd facade contour test. They're 3 weeks away still from approval and 2 weeks after that until the first large batch arrives (from the last update I heard a couple of weeks ago), sorry to burst you guy's bubbles but it's not happening just yet, won't be long though if all goes well!
Fingers crossed for this test! :tup:

It's nice to see how quickly they can put up so many panels, it looks like they'll be able to catch up really quick!

[Sky Tower]

Should Dubai realtors fear earthquakes?

By Robert Ditcham, Staff Reporter

Dubai: Close to the UAE's mass of multi-billion dollar skyscrapers lies southern Iran - a region where decades of devastating seismic activity has had crippling social and economic consequences.
Although the active Zagros Fold Belt runs along the south coast of Iran, just across the Arabian Gulf from cities including Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Dubai, most studies say the Gulf is in fact a relatively benign seismic area, lying on the stable Arabian plate.
However, other findings conclude that the Gulf shares similar seismic hazard levels as parts of California and Iran - food for thought considering that some of the most prime real estate in the UAE is built on soft re-claimed land.
According to Zygmunt Lubkowski, Arup Associate and geotechnical earthquake engineering expert, Dubai has nothing to worry about based on existing earthquake records. But he warned that these records only cover a fraction of time in the region's overall seismic history.
"Dubai has felt a number of small earthquakes, the most recent in March 2002," he said. "However, people have been recording earthquakes in the Gulf States for no more than 30 years, so we can't be 100 per cent sure about what's going on."
In Dubai, buildings of five storeys or more must comply with municipality requirements, which according to Lubkowski, require buildings to withstand levels of ground shaking far above that which could realistically occur.
But some types of buildings are more as risk to substantial ground movement than others, he said. "Dubai has started putting buildings on very soft soil, such as reclaimed land along the coast.
The impact of seismic activity can be more significant in these areas as the tremors intensify," he said. "This would make it uncomfortable for people in the top floors of tall buildings, but certainly no structural failure."
A common misconception is that tall buildings such as the Burj Dubai would be more at risk to ground movement than low rise buildings in Dubai.
Experts say buildings most at risk are five to 10 storey ones on reclaimed land, which do not have a huge wind load. But even then the risk is small, they say.
"The taller and thinner a building the more flexible it is and the more it absorbs the energy of a quake," said Andy Davids, director of structures at Hyder Consulting, part of the design team for the Burj Dubai and Emirates Towers.
"We've got quite a benign seismic environment here and even we did have a large quake, the effect in a tall building would be minimal."

[brian_b]

Should Dubai realtors fear earthquakes?
However, other findings conclude that the Gulf shares similar seismic hazard levels as parts of California and Iran - food for thought considering that some of the most prime real estate in the UAE is built on soft re-claimed land.
But some types of buildings are more as risk to substantial ground movement than others, he said. "Dubai has started putting buildings on very soft soil, such as reclaimed land along the coast.
....


That's a fairly odd article. It starts by attempting to introduce some drama and fear into the minds of the reader and then ends by saying there's not much risk to the larger buildings after all.

It doesn't matter so much the type of soil the Burj Dubai is sitting on, all the weight of the building is supported by the caissons drilled down deep enough to bedrock or other type of earth that is strong enough to support the building. :koko:

[dubai 1]

the burj Dubai probably weights more then 600,000 ton's

[Fury]

Hi all.
Actually... the 3 meter thick raft -

http://i16.tinypic.com/2n8much.jpg

is on 192 - 1.5 meter diameter - 49 meter long -

http://i1.tinypic.com/2j4bmfa.jpg

Skin Friction piles - ( I presume bedrock is too deep - :shrug: ) - filled with some sort of grout -

http://i4.tinypic.com/3yq30bl.jpg

The original 15 meter deep excavation was through sand and brackish water. They had many pumps set up right from the start to keep it dry.

Great updates over the last few days - many thanks -near 70 new pics - love this thing.
:cheers:

[Imre]

SSC is down , so update here today:)

Burj Dubai

11/02/2007

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/998/photo15pg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/526/photo03lc1.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo03lc1.jpg)
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8664/photo04zh0.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo04zh0.jpg)
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1963/photo05wa0.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo05wa0.jpg)
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5607/photo06eh4.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo06eh4.jpg)http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/46/photo07sc0.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo07sc0.jpg)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/9803/photo08ku6.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo08ku6.jpg)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8209/photo09nm6.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo09nm6.jpg)
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7120/photo10zm3.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo10zm3.jpg)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4108/photo11nt9.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo11nt9.jpg)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8697/photo12tl8.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo12tl8.jpg)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/76/photo13le6.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo13le6.jpg)
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8526/photo14ox8.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo14ox8.jpg)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/134/photo16xz1.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo16xz1.jpg)

[ZZ-II]

thank you imre :)

[Imre]

Hello ZZ-II , are you everywhere?:)

I think Indigo Tower -JLT or Al Mas facade would be better at Burj Dubai.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5751/photo01aj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2756/photo02uf3.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo02uf3.jpg)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/1272/photo03os4.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo03os4.jpg)

[ZZ-II]

Hello ZZ-II , are you everywhere?:)

I think Indigo Tower -JLT or Al Mas facade would be better at Burj Dubai.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5751/photo01aj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2756/photo02uf3.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo02uf3.jpg)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/1272/photo03os4.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo03os4.jpg)

i'm registered in SSC, SSP and SSL :).
mostly i'm writing only in SSC but when it doesn't work like now i look in SSP ;). in SSL i always post the BD updates.

[Bergenser]

Great pictures! Thanks.
I hope they can start with the facade soon. :)

[Lecom]

So how did that facade testing go? All right this time?

[dubai 1]

Hi all.
Actually... the 3 meter thick raft -

http://i16.tinypic.com/2n8much.jpg

is on 192 - 1.5 meter diameter - 49 meter long -

http://i1.tinypic.com/2j4bmfa.jpg

Skin Friction piles - ( I presume bedrock is too deep - :shrug: ) - filled with some sort of grout -

http://i4.tinypic.com/3yq30bl.jpg

The original 15 meter deep excavation was through sand and brackish water. They had many pumps set up right from the start to keep it dry.

Great updates over the last few days - many thanks -near 70 new pics - love this thing.
:cheers:
for 49 meter long, is that for only 1 wing length ?

[SteveD]

:previous: no, it doesn't have anything to do with which wing..it's referring to how "tall" the piles are, or, how deep into the ground they were driven. The foundation mat is sitting on a bunch of friction piles, sunk into the ground, which each extend vertically below the mat that length. The piles are under each wing, as well as the core.

[Sky Tower]

:previous: The 192 friction piles only pertain to the piles under the main concrete pad. There were 56 narrower friction piles added for the podium sections and 9 more added later to transfer loads from the main piles to the outrigger piles (hense the unusual inclination of 30 degrees). The extra piles were not for vertical load, but put in for more lateral stability as they transfer loads to the deliberately underladen outrigger piles. As they are not directly load bearing to the main core piles, excess lateral movement under high winds will be transferred to the outer piles when the main structure requires it. It's a relatively new technnique called 'sleeper loading'.
When EMAAR originally stated the tower could only support a building of no more than 950m, it was not due to it's weight, but the lateral wind loads it could be subject to during freak wind events without eating into it's pre determined 30% safety margin (which never meant they couldn't go higher, it just meant that they'd have to start eating into the pre-disposed safety margin!). This new process means it can now sustain a greater undisclosed height without risk of lateral foundation instability! Unlike the rest of the friction piles the concrete poured into these piles were carbon fibre pre-stressed (like the core wall from L75 upwards), with loads transferred by high pressure monitoring jacks inserted below foundation level linked by computer to the head of the building. As no counter weights are fitted to the pinnacle of the building, the foundation itself will be pre-emptive to rare lateral loads by increasing load pressure in any corner of the building, transfering and laden torsion away from the main foundation structure. It's a bit like having stabilizers fitted to a bicycle!
A cylindrical specimen of 1.3 m of thickness was used. Thermocouples, pressure taps and moisture gauges were implemented before concreting. These devices provided local information, and were mostly distributed in the first 0.30 m of the concrete. The concrete composition (high performance concrete) was the same as that used for the construction of the CIVAUX 2 nuclear power station.
Typical experimental results for the evolution of temperature, pressure and water content as functions of time are shown for the two test conditions. The concrete attached to the back of the composite dried, and a mass transfer was induced towards colder zones in the centre of the specimen. The liner acted as a heat insulator and the pressure acting on the back of the composite remained lower than that applied on the composite. The residual adhesion of the liner to the concrete was measured. Finally, the overall results allowed the comparison of situations where the wall was lined and unlined, during exposure to SC1 and SC2 conditions.
Although only a small percentage of the friction piles used in this construction are load transferring, it is enough for the building to safely reach it's new design height with a 30% freak event safety margin! :tup:

[Jasonhouse]

30% safety margin sounds low to me.

[Sky Tower]

:previous: 30% is above and beyond any freak wind lateral event so compared to most buildings it's kinda high! ;)
When I say 30% it's not for catastrophic structural failure, just a measurable shift in foundation orientation (in mm's), so nothing to worry about!

[SkyWatcher]

So there will be no tuned mass damper on one of the upper levels? Wow, that's very interesting technology. I'd love to see how that works visually.

So reports of the foundation not being able to support the weight are false...good to hear, maybe we'll get to see 1000m after all.

[Sky Tower]

:previous: Strangely there is space put by for a tuned mass damper as a contingency plan but nothing so far is planned to be going in. Then again....Taipai 101's damper was added into the plans partially during construction.
The reports to the foundation not being able to support a 950m+ building wasn't false, just old news now rectified for it's design change!

[Canadian Mind]

so that means its till only able to support 950 but they are building to 1000 anyways?

[AltinD]

:previous: READ post 805 and related discussions on previous pages and you got the reply.

[DUBAI2015]

Everybody, Look! They have finally started the Cladding!
I found this on SSC by s a s h a

http://i3.tinypic.com/3yzbndd.jpg

[DUBAI2015]

^ Just Kidding :jester:

[PuyoPiyo]

^^^I was almost believed into it! lol...

[vanhenrik]

hey hawe thy stopt the bulding on th top ? the first time them posted this massage was on February 7th or 8th i do not cuiet remember

February 12th 2007 - Level 112 - Height 425.53m - Currently the 5th tallest highrise building in the world!

i think it takes to long time betwen 112 -113th floor

[Bergenser]

Oh, I wish that picture was true!
If it will look that way, then we have much to look forward to! :tup:

[gixer]

[QUOTE=vanhenrik;2629431]hey hawe thy stopt the bulding on th top ? the first time them posted this massage was on February 7th or 8th i do not cuiet remember

February 12th 2007 - Level 112 - Height 425.53m - Currently the 5th tallest highrise building in the world!

Yes it seems they are working with the wings now and will continue on the top when the wings are finished. Or then there is just some kinda core adjustment going on and it takes some time. I think the speed up will again be the same as it has been, floor/3 days and about 9-10m/week. So, about 10 weeks and it will be 500m tall:worship: , we'll see am I right...:jester:

[ZZ-II]

yes you're right, since some day's i've counted always 108F....and the wings are going up fast now :)

[vanhenrik]

yes you're right, since some day's i've counted always 108F....and the wings are going up fast now :)

its is good that they konsentreyt on the wings that givs the bulding moor
perspektiv end us mor perspektive how the bulding is going too looks like !
but cant they buld the hight in same rait even if they consentrait on the wings ?