Calgary Roads

[DizzyEdge]

I noticed that there's been some changes at the intersection of 10th ave and 14th st SW. 10th ave was blocked from crossing 14th street by means of a concrete median, but there are plans to eventually open it up. When I went by Saturday night I saw that the median is gone and replaced with temporary wooden barriers, and there are now new traffic lights, but covered over and not active yet.

[Innersoul1]

I have a bit of a piss-off with new developers. My latest example is Timberline Estates on the city's west side. This new development covers a parcel of land on 85th St. Between 17th Ave and Highway 8. My issue is that the creation of this development will add a lot of increased traffic on 85th yet the city has not mandated that the developer widen 85th St between the development and 17th ave (where the closest shopping area is). For those of you not familiar with this area, this stretch of 85th Street is very narrow, 2 lanes that in the winter is more like 1 1/2. This is certianly something that the city should look at as i am sure it isn't exclusive to this community.

[MMMBeer]

I have a bit of a piss-off with new developers. My latest example is Timberline Estates on the city's west side. This new development covers a parcel of land on 85th St. Between 17th Ave and Highway 8. My issue is that the creation of this development will add a lot of increased traffic on 85th yet the city has not mandated that the developer widen 85th St between the development and 17th ave (where the closest shopping area is). For those of you not familiar with this area, this stretch of 85th Street is very narrow, 2 lanes that in the winter is more like 1 1/2. This is certianly something that the city should look at as i am sure it isn't exclusive to this community.

I have been in the new showhomes there...the builders are saying once the West LRT opens, access from Lower Springbank > 85 St. will be closed off - only access will be from Springbank Blvd. That should lessen the traffic markedly from the current situation.

[Wentworth]

I have been in the new showhomes there...the builders are saying once the West LRT opens, access from Lower Springbank > 85 St. will be closed off - only access will be from Springbank Blvd. That should lessen the traffic markedly from the current situation.

Wow, you should see the veins popping out of my forehead right now. This is absolute insanity. The only other option for traffic accessing Glenmore is to go down 69th street, and the intersection of 17th and 69th is going to be a total gong show once the C-Train is opened, with all of the park and ride traffic plus all of the school and rec centre traffic. The other thing is that 85th street often becomes the only way to access the West end of the city when a snowstorm hits during rush hour, as the 69th, 17th, and Bow trail hills all ice up and become gridlocked.

[Wentworth]

I have a bit of a piss-off with new developers. My latest example is Timberline Estates on the city's west side. This new development covers a parcel of land on 85th St. Between 17th Ave and Highway 8. My issue is that the creation of this development will add a lot of increased traffic on 85th yet the city has not mandated that the developer widen 85th St between the development and 17th ave (where the closest shopping area is). For those of you not familiar with this area, this stretch of 85th Street is very narrow, 2 lanes that in the winter is more like 1 1/2. This is certianly something that the city should look at as i am sure it isn't exclusive to this community.

Timberline is a pretty small development, less than 100 homes. What's more absurd is the 1000's of homes under constructions in Aspen without widing 85th between Bow and 14th Streets.

[Innersoul1]

I have been in the new showhomes there...the builders are saying once the West LRT opens, access from Lower Springbank > 85 St. will be closed off - only access will be from Springbank Blvd. That should lessen the traffic markedly from the current situation.

You have to be kidding me! This is craziness! This doesn't make sense for Timberline owners who will have to take a VERY roundabout route to get to Aspen landing and bow trail.

Wow, you should see the veins popping out of my forehead right now. This is absolute insanity. The only other option for traffic accessing Glenmore is to go down 69th street, and the intersection of 17th and 69th is going to be a total gong show once the C-Train is opened, with all of the park and ride traffic plus all of the school and rec centre traffic. The other thing is that 85th street often becomes the only way to access the West end of the city when a snowstorm hits during rush hour, as the 69th, 17th, and Bow trail hills all ice up and become gridlocked.

I hear ya buddy. This makes no sense whatsoever. When 85th has been closed lately due to the utility work for Timberline Estates I have been taking 69th. It's a MUCH slower option especially given the intersection at 17th and 69th, which as you pointed out will be compunded by the LRT traffic. Plus the left turn from 69th street to highway 8 is brutal at times!

Timberline is a pretty small development, less than 100 homes. What's more absurd is the 1000's of homes under constructions in Aspen without widing 85th between Bow and 14th Streets.

For Timberline, I was more suggesting that the builder should still have some accountability to upgrade that road given the potential for 300+ more cars using that road (given that most of the houses have 3 car garages). I agree with you about 85th from Bow-14th. Driving by this morning it appears that that work has started to take place with the utility for Aspen Summit and Highlands complete.

[bigcanuck]

I hear ya buddy. This makes no sense whatsoever. When 85th has been closed lately due to the utility work for Timberline Estates I have been taking 69th. It's a MUCH slower option especially given the intersection at 17th and 69th, which as you pointed out will be compunded by the LRT traffic. Plus the left turn from 69th street to highway 8 is brutal at times!



That's why I opted for 101st all the time - 69th has too many bottlenecks including crossing 17th where the C-Train construction is holding things up periodically.

Plus, 101st is a prettier drive!

[Innersoul1]

That's why I opted for 101st all the time - 69th has too many bottlenecks including crossing 17th where the C-Train construction is holding things up periodically.

Plus, 101st is a prettier drive!

Very valid point

[DizzyEdge]

man 69th st.. 101st st! I feel like I'm heading into the forbidden zone when I pass just 32nd st/ave...

[mersar]

man 69th st.. 101st st! I feel like I'm heading into the forbidden zone when I pass just 32nd st/ave...

Then I better not mention such roads as 162nd ave or even 196ave :P

Keeping on topic I noticed the other day that the city decided to be somewhat smart and make the chaos that is the SE Ring Road construction even worse. They've started work on the 114th Ave stormwater sewer feeder main, resulting in 114th ave west of 84th becoming a obstacle courses of pylons.

[freeweed]

man 69th st.. 101st st! I feel like I'm heading into the forbidden zone when I pass just 32nd st/ave...

You may also be interested to learn that we have colour in our televisions now, as well as radios that receive both AM AND FM in the same car.

Calgary's grown quite a bit since the 1950s. I hear we might hit 200,000 people soon. :P

[DizzyEdge]

You may also be interested to learn that we have colour in our televisions now, as well as radios that receive both AM AND FM in the same car.

Calgary's grown quite a bit since the 1950s. I hear we might hit 200,000 people soon. :P

I like to pretend Calgary still has its 1920's boundaries, so then my bitching about living 20 blocks from downtown turns into living at the edge of town.

[freeweed]

I like to pretend Calgary still has its 1920's boundaries, so then my bitching about living 20 blocks from downtown turns into living at the edge of town.

Sometimes for fun I like to troll people by pointing out that their "inner city" home was actually a planned, "cookie cutter" suburb back in the 1950s.

I've blown some serious minds in a few cities this way.

[MMMBeer]

You have to be kidding me! This is craziness! This doesn't make sense for Timberline owners who will have to take a VERY roundabout route to get to Aspen landing and bow trail.



I hear ya buddy. This makes no sense whatsoever. When 85th has been closed lately due to the utility work for Timberline Estates I have been taking 69th. It's a MUCH slower option especially given the intersection at 17th and 69th, which as you pointed out will be compunded by the LRT traffic. Plus the left turn from 69th street to highway 8 is brutal at times!



For Timberline, I was more suggesting that the builder should still have some accountability to upgrade that road given the potential for 300+ more cars using that road (given that most of the houses have 3 car garages). I agree with you about 85th from Bow-14th. Driving by this morning it appears that that work has started to take place with the utility for Aspen Summit and Highlands complete.

The Timberline residents (and Springbank Blvd residents) can continue to take 85th still to Aspen Landing. It's anyone else who may have wanted to cut from Hwy 8 > Lower Springbank > 85 to get there that is cut off.

Agreed though that the kink in the road at 85 just beyond 34 Ave. isn't great. I live near there and the increased traffic can make for a hairy drive through there, especially at night.

[Wentworth]

The Timberline residents (and Springbank Blvd residents) can continue to take 85th still to Aspen Landing. It's anyone else who may have wanted to cut from Hwy 8 > Lower Springbank > 85 to get there that is cut off.

Agreed though that the kink in the road at 85 just beyond 34 Ave. isn't great. I live near there and the increased traffic can make for a hairy drive through there, especially at night.

I really can't see them closing that road until the West Ring Road is built. I'm not sure how the presence of the C-Train can justify its closure. No one using that road would be a candidate for taking the C-train.

[Mazrim]

They're sure taking their time repainting Glenmore Trail it seems. Weather's been fine!

[Innersoul1]

They're sure taking their time repainting Glenmore Trail it seems. Weather's been fine!

Funny given that 16th Ave near North Hill was painted ASAP!

[J-D]

They're sure taking their time repainting Glenmore Trail it seems. Weather's been fine!

I'm surprised they didn't just install lane markers like the ones they put in on Deerfoot :shrug:

[mersar]

Funny given that 16th Ave near North Hill was painted ASAP!

Yep. We'll see how long it takes them to repaint Crowchild, they've got at least the west bound lanes done it appeared when I was on the CTrain tonight.

[mersar]

Noticed that the base gravel for the roadway has been poured on the northbound lanes of 4th Street SE under the new underpass. Also the rails around the bridge all appear to be installed now for the most part.

[Mazrim]

Good news in the GE5 area. Looks like they're going to repaint the 5th Street mess over Glenmore to have 2 lanes going NB to Chinook, which means less headaches from people being stupid and getting stopped right in the middle of the intersection waiting for the lights. I couldn't tell for sure but they might also be putting two lanes through on the ramp from Macleod to WB Glenmore exit, with the right lane exiting to Elbow instead of 5th Street. That's also a potentially big difference as the queue lengths in the morning/afternoon rushes were terrible.

[5seconds]

Quick picture of the 4th street SE underpass in the East Village this morning. Sorry it's not great, it was raining. Good progress, anyone know when it's due to open?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/jessesalus/Image0033.jpg

[freeweed]

Speaking of line painting, the City sure screwed the pooch with tendering and contracting some maintenance work this year. I've seen at least 5 crews out this weekend re-painting lines (ie: not new asphalt, just refreshing existing lines).

Painting lines in mid September makes zero f'ing sense. Hello, snow plows.

[Calgarian]

Hopefully we don't have to put as much gravel down on the roads this winter, that's why all the lines were so faded.

[mersar]

Yep. We'll see how long it takes them to repaint Crowchild, they've got at least the west bound lanes done it appeared when I was on the CTrain tonight.

They had painted all the solid lines on Glenmore by Sunday morning, none of the dashed lines though. Nothing done on Crowchild, but paving there won't be complete until Saturday so not surprising.

I did see them repainting lines on the ramps for the NW part of Stoney on the weekend.

[CTrainDude]

I noticed that they started working on the 130th Avenue South extension east of 52nd Street East. Does anyone know if this is being built all the way to the SE Ring Road right now, or are they just building to access the New Brighton Athletic Park?

[mersar]

I noticed that they started working on the 130th Avenue South extension east of 52nd Street East. Does anyone know if this is being built all the way to the SE Ring Road right now, or are they just building to access the New Brighton Athletic Park?

Connection to the ring road is being roughed in, but the interchange won't be built for a few years minimum after the ring road opens. I didn't notice any work around 52nd and 130th when I was there on the weekend, though I may have just missed it.

[fusili]

Didn't know where to put this. :haha::haha::haha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaMkT1Dk6xQ&feature=player_embedded

[DoubleK]

Does anyone know if the bridge deck replacement on NB Deerfoot is on schedule? I see they just moved over to the east section of the Calf Robe last weekend.

They can't be done by October can they?

[Ferreth]

Does anyone know if the bridge deck replacement on NB Deerfoot is on schedule? I see they just moved over to the east section of the Calf Robe last weekend.

They can't be done by October can they?

I'd say end of October is doable.. For some reason, the second half of the first bridge took a lot less time (a month, if I recall correctly). I'm hoping for the same thing with this bridge!

[ZeDgE]

Hopefully we don't have to put as much gravel down on the roads this winter, that's why all the lines were so faded.

Why do we use gravel anyway? Most other cities use sand no? Its such a goddamn mess every spring.

[Jimby]

Sand helps polish the ice to a finer sheen because it doesn't have enough grit to dig into the ice like gravel.

Sand blows away or gets pushed away by tires from where it is needed.

I think they use a sand and brine mixture when the temperature is high enough for the salt to melt the roads.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/Roads/Pages/Road-Maintenance/Snow-and-ice-control/Salt-management-plan-FAQs.aspx

[freeweed]

I always assumed we have readily available gravel, but not much sand.

If sand is available, and we don't use it - I think the city should be paying for my f'ing windshield that I used to replace at least every 2 years. Sometimes annually. I've given up on the SUV and it has dozens of small chips, several large ones, and a huge crack straight across - all of this developed in the first winter we owned it and I finally gave up. Every second or third vehicle in this city has huge cracks in the windshield.

That website references "fine gravel", but they call it "sanding". :haha:

[You Need A Thneed]

I believe not using sand is due to water quality issues when the sand washed into the river.

[Jimby]

:previous: that's why tailgating is such an important survival strategy. If you maintan a safe distance between you and the vehicle in front, then you're in prime rocks-hitting-windshield target practice. If you're hugging their bumper, then the rocks can't fly up and do damage!

[mwalker_mw]

Having lived through the mess that is sand in other locations I think gravel is the lesser of the two evils - however, it would seem a slightly more controlled and scientific approach to its application could be done. Right now there are certainly places where it just gets dumped.

All the damage I've experienced on my windshields has been from trucks leaving construction sites in the summer and I do quite a bit of winter highway driving....

[DoubleK]

Sand helps polish the ice to a finer sheen because it doesn't have enough grit to dig into the ice like gravel.

Sand blows away or gets pushed away by tires from where it is needed.


Where in the world did you ever come up with that?

The only thing that is different between sand and gravel is the size of the individual particles. There is very little sand around Calgary, thus the use of gravel.

[DoubleK]

I believe not using sand is due to water quality issues when the sand washed into the river.

Nonsense. If they were spreading silt or clay on the road this would be true. Sand is not soluble in water, therefore cannot affect water quality in any way. It does not change the chemistry or anything of that nature.

There are only three types of inorganic soil particles, sand, silt and clay. Silt and Clay can cause turbidity that influence water quality. This is normally why they use pit run gravel/sand on roadways.

[freeweed]

I grew up in a place that uses a lot - and I mean A LOT - of sand. So much so that the road snow/ice can take weeks longer to melt, because a 4" layer of sand is a very good insulator (this is how many people used to keep ice throughout the summer in the days before refrigeration). The city used a lot because it gets a lot more snow than Calgary, and it never melts - so traction is always a concern. Never had a problem driving on sanded roads; gravel is most certainly not a superior alternative in terms of traction or longevity. If anything, I find it gets pushed aside much easier than sand. Sand embeds in the ice much better and provides grip longer.

I had never had even a chip in a windshield, let alone cracks, before moving to Calgary. It took 3 months after moving here to get my first crack. And as I come from a city where many people have left and moved to Calgary, I've been able to warn my friends. Most of them don't believe me at first and think it must have something to do with my driving, or whatever - because THEY'VE never had a crack. Until they move to Calgary. And then get angry at ME because "I told you so". :haha:

I have yet to know a person move to this city who has driven for a full year without a major chip/crack in their windshield. At least among people who drive fairly regularly, and take high speed roads (Deerfoot is one of the worst, but it's not the only "chip zone"). We have a special polymer coating on the car that so far is working (3 years in) but it cost something like $800 and has to be re-applied every year. And I believe we have to re-pay the $800 after 4-5 years. Still cheaper than replacing windshields every year.

[J-D]

Why do we use gravel anyway? Most other cities use sand no? Its such a goddamn mess every spring.

I've always been under the impression that the city screens its gravel so as to avoid the bigger rocks that smash windshields - however, many private enterprises (think grocery store parking lots) cheap out and don't and these are the rocks that end up screwing everyone over.

[albertantraingeek]

Deerfoot

That trail owes my family like 7 new windshields :haha:

[5seconds]

4th street underpass. Light fixtures up (never seen this kind used before), road being rolled.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/jessesalus/Image0035.jpg

[tmjr]

4th street underpass. Light fixtures up (never seen this kind used before), road being rolled.



Did this underpass exist before and they are just refurbishing it, or is it new?

If new, how did they build it with the train traffic overhead? I assume CP didn't stop using the tracks while the underpass was put in...

[Mazrim]

Did this underpass exist before and they are just refurbishing it, or is it new?

If new, how did they build it with the train traffic overhead? I assume CP didn't stop using the tracks while the underpass was put in...

It's new, and they shifted the tracks temporarily while they built the underpass.

[Calgarian]

Wow, that Underpass should be open in a couple weeks. nice!

[Ramsayfarian]

The metal feature that fronts the overpass is pretty cool when seen in person, it's louvered and they move with the breeze and kind of make it shimmy. Huge improvement over a billboard.

[bigcanuck]

The southern part of 85th Street SW that connects to Lower Springbank Road will indeed be closed off at some point in the future once the Timberline development has been completed (according to Richard Pootmans). However, no timeframe for the closure was given.

It's a bit disappointing as that's our primary method for accessing Hwy 8 - I guess we'll have to shift to 101st Street or 69th Street...

[Oliver Klozov]

It's new, and they shifted the tracks temporarily while they built the underpass.

The land on both sides of what is now just the main line, including that new building on the right of the photo, was part of the Industrial Yard with lots of trackage. The era where CP required industrial tracks downtown has long since past. It was used for years as idle car storage and a repair area for cars owned by GE. That land is far too valuable now for that to continue.

They probably just used some of the old yard tracks to detour trains around the underpass construction.

[5seconds]

The southern part of 85th Street SW that connects to Lower Springbank Road will indeed be closed off at some point in the future once the Timberline development has been completed (according to Richard Pootmans). However, no timeframe for the closure was given.

It's a bit disappointing as that's our primary method for accessing Hwy 8 - I guess we'll have to shift to 101st Street or 69th Street...

Ring Road plans have no access to 85th street. In the future, the road will be accessed from 17th avenue and 69th street. It seems they are just preparing for future use in their near-term plans.

[bigcanuck]

...as long as the ring road is actually completed within my lifetime...

If/when it is completed, it'll definitely be a huge advantage for us - especially the part going down the slopes from Old Banff Coach Road to Hwy 1 - that'll cut 10-15 minutes off drive time getting anywhere in the far NW. Costco will be only 10 minutes away...

[5seconds]

...as long as the ring road is actually completed within my lifetime...

If/when it is completed, it'll definitely be a huge advantage for us - especially the part going down the slopes from Old Banff Coach Road to Hwy 1 - that'll cut 10-15 minutes off drive time getting anywhere in the far NW. Costco will be only 10 minutes away...

Just wait until a Costco gets built on the reserve!

But I do think it's different this time. I think both sides (Province and Tsuu T'ina) have a reason and a mandate to get the road built, which hasn't been the case until very recently.

For all of the rhetoric about how this road has "been in negotiations for decades" and that the "Tsuu T'ina keep rejecting the deals" it's interesting to note that it wasn't until the 1980s that the Nation even decided to think about a road, and that the first and only land negotiations/vote happened in 2009.

[mersar]

They probably just used some of the old yard tracks to detour trains around the underpass construction.

Most of the yard tracks were ripped out years ago, for the construction of the new underpass they built a new track that curved around the underpass itself to the south while excavation was being done, then they built the new track over the underpass and removed the detour.

[Stang]

Is there an official opening date for the 4th Street underpass, or is it simply "when it is done"? It looks very close to being completed.

I am looking forward to it for a few reasons. Most importantly, I think that it makes the East Village feel less isolated, as well as Victoria Park (what's left of it) on the other side. I also think that it will improve access to the Saddledome considerably, particularly for those living in the north that come by car to high-traffic events. Even southies could probably get to Deerfoot faster via Memorial.

[5seconds]

The northbound lanes of the underpass were black this morning, which just happened in the last 24 hours. (It was oil or something over the sand, I think.)

There were about 30 people working on the site this morning, the pedestrian railings were going in well, the light fixtures were up, the sand on the road itself was packed and smooth. It's looking really good.

[5seconds]

4th street underpass: The northbound lanes looked fully paved, and the paving machine was onsite and had started on the southbound lanes this morning.

[You Need A Thneed]

Finally it looks like some real progress on getting the Metis Trail Extension done. The first layer of paving is complete, north of 80th Ave, and curbs were being poured yesterday at the Metis/80th Ave intersection.

At Metis/Country Hills Blvd, the traffic signals have started going up. Very much looking forward to Metis Trail going all the way through. Hopefully in a month or less.

[mersar]

Finally it looks like some real progress on getting the Metis Trail Extension done. The first layer of paving is complete, north of 80th Ave, and curbs were being poured yesterday at the Metis/80th Ave intersection.

At Metis/Country Hills Blvd, the traffic signals have started going up. Very much looking forward to Metis Trail going all the way through. Hopefully in a month or less.

Good to hear. It looked like 96th ave/airport trail at Stoney is progressing nicely, streetlights appeared to be in quite a ways beyond where they ended from the Stoney Trail work and from Stoney you can tell the roadway is coming along.

[You Need A Thneed]

Good to hear. It looked like 96th ave/airport trail at Stoney is progressing nicely, streetlights appeared to be in quite a ways beyond where they ended from the Stoney Trail work and from Stoney you can tell the roadway is coming along.

They better be moving on that one, opening date is supposed to be Oct 17, according to the city's website:

Link. (http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Pages/Road-projects/96-Avenue-NE---60-Street-to-Stoney-Trail-East.aspx)

For those who don't know what is being done, here's the city's project map: Link. (http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Documents/Road-projects/96-ave-project-photo.pdf)

Also related (and new); 96th Ave corridor study being done this fall. (http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Pages/Projects/Current-Planning-Projects/96-Avenue-N.E.-Functional-Planning-Study.aspx)

[lubicon]

So I was listening to the radio last night on the way home from work yesterday and they were talking about the new snow removal policy the City will implement this year. Essentially every time it snows more than 5cm they will declare a parking ban on all Class 1 and Class 2 roads in the city. These are all teh major roads (Class 1) plus pretty much every road that is a bus route (Class 2). These parking bans will apparently be city wide no matter where it snows and will run for the full 72 hours (3 days) regardless of how quickly the roads are cleared. The only exceptions are for some handicapped parking areas and in certain business zones where the parking ban will only be for overnight parking.

Sounds all well and good, but the reporter apparently asked a City Roads guy how this would have worked out if the policy was in place last winter. His answer was that last winter they would have declared a parking ban 20 times, meaning no parking on these roads for 60 days in total. That adds up to almost half the time when you think about it.

[mersar]

Sounds all well and good, but the reporter apparently asked a City Roads guy how this would have worked out if the policy was in place last winter. His answer was that last winter they would have declared a parking ban 20 times, meaning no parking on these roads for 60 days in total. That adds up to almost half the time when you think about it.

Up to 72 hours. They also can end the ban once the road is cleared, which it sounded like they intend on doing as often as feasable. It will be interesting to see how it works in practice though, as I live on a priority 2 road with no driveway and no place to park in the back lane either. With 2 cars in front of the house and usually a pretty packed street between all the neighbors it might be fun when the snow comes. This might help me sell the idea of building a parking stall off the back lane that I mused about this summer to the wife though.

[freeweed]

I'm admittedly not very familiar with what exactly works out to be a Class 2 road, but I don't think I have a problem with this. I've lived in a city with much more draconian parking bans in the winter (most major roads and bus routes you cannot park on, EVER, from approximately November through March) and people manage. You just learn that you can't use a public resource (roads) as your own personal free parking space. You either pay for a spot like everyone else, move to a place where this isn't an issue, or go without a car. Or really, just deal with it. You find a different place for your car on a parking ban day.

I have a hard time believing the City will ticket and tow cars where no plowing is taking place - ie: where it hasn't actually snowed, or they've already plowed. The "city wide, full 72 hours" thing is just covering their ass because inevitably some dickhead will try to argue that where HE was parked wasn't interfering with the plows. Usually what happens in cities that do this is when they're about to plow a road, they go along and tow any cars on it. Otherwise, you're safe.

Incidentally, according to Environment Canada we only saw 10 days with 5+ cm of snow last year, not 20. And that was in an extremely snowy winter for Calgary. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

All that said, I think the city still needs to come to some sort of middle ground. MOST years, MOST streets are just fine and need little plowing beyond once or twice. Chinooks take care of lots of it. In the bad years (like the past 2) we need to take extraordinary measures obviously. But beyond that, use some common sense. Unfortunately this sort of system devolves pretty quickly into "who whines loudest gets the best service", leaving some streets impassable while others are scraped down to the last centimetre. Frustrating.

[mersar]

I'm admittedly not very familiar with what exactly works out to be a Class 2 road

See here (http://www.cocnmp.com/snic/) for a map of priority 1 and 2 roads. Its not a perfect map yet, they will have a full snow route map later this year that doesn't include the exclusion zones

[DoubleK]

. His answer was that last winter they would have declared a parking ban 20 times, meaning no parking on these roads for 60 days in total. That adds up to almost half the time when you think about it.

Be glad they aren't instituting something like calendar parking like other jurisdictions. You'd be dealing with a guaranteed 50% reduction in available parking from November to April.

Keep in mind they haven't fleshed out this process fully. You would have to believe that there would be a mechanism to end the snow emergency and things would go back to normal.

[5seconds]

Here's a map where you can turn on and off the routes (1 & 2)

http://www.cocnmp.com/snic/

EDIT: Mersar beat me to it!

[suburb]

priority 2 road with no driveway and no place to park in the back lane either. With 2 cars in front of the house

While this comment will no doubt infuriate some folks, I think houses like the one you've described should have a surtax against their property tax. In effect these places are using common land to house private property. It would be like renting two stalls from the public purse. Seems logical, no?

[5seconds]

While this comment will no doubt infuriate some folks, I think houses like the one you've described should have a surtax against their property tax. In effect these places are using common land to house private property. It would be like renting two stalls from the public purse. Seems logical, no?

Why stop there? Why not install parking meters on every square inch of every public road? All parking is the 'using common land to house private property', so why not have everyone who wants to park pay for it, no matter which road they use, or what alternatives are available? If you implement it on certain houses, it's not equitable, so if you want to do it, it should be globally applied, no?

(In case it wasn't clear, I am not actually arguing for this!)

[lubicon]

I'm admittedly not very familiar with what exactly works out to be a Class 2 road, but I don't think I have a problem with this. I've lived in a city with much more draconian parking bans in the winter (most major roads and bus routes you cannot park on, EVER, from approximately November through March) and people manage. You just learn that you can't use a public resource (roads) as your own personal free parking space. You either pay for a spot like everyone else, move to a place where this isn't an issue, or go without a car. Or really, just deal with it. You find a different place for your car on a parking ban day.

I have a hard time believing the City will ticket and tow cars where no plowing is taking place - ie: where it hasn't actually snowed, or they've already plowed. The "city wide, full 72 hours" thing is just covering their ass because inevitably some dickhead will try to argue that where HE was parked wasn't interfering with the plows. Usually what happens in cities that do this is when they're about to plow a road, they go along and tow any cars on it. Otherwise, you're safe.

Incidentally, according to Environment Canada we only saw 10 days with 5+ cm of snow last year, not 20. And that was in an extremely snowy winter for Calgary. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

All that said, I think the city still needs to come to some sort of middle ground. MOST years, MOST streets are just fine and need little plowing beyond once or twice. Chinooks take care of lots of it. In the bad years (like the past 2) we need to take extraordinary measures obviously. But beyond that, use some common sense. Unfortunately this sort of system devolves pretty quickly into "who whines loudest gets the best service", leaving some streets impassable while others are scraped down to the last centimetre. Frustrating.

I'm not arguing or disputing your post. The 20 times is jsut what the City guy was quoted as saying, I have no idea of how accurate or innacurate that is. And yes, you would think that the City would be reasonable and use some common sense with ticketing and parking, but CPS also said that about the distracted driving legistlation and we are seeing how that is turning out.

[Cage]

Looking the priority 1 and 2 roads and questioning the reasonableness of the priority two roads designated in some communities.

For example I am looking at Charleswood in general and Cheyenne Crescent in particular. The street is a horsehoe shape, no bus route, and yet has priority 2 designation. There are a number of other roads in Charleswood with the same situation: Columbia, Canyon, Cander, etc.

I contrast Charleswood with Citadel. In Citadel the class 2 roads are Citadel Drive and Citadel Way plus the entrances to the community.

I am curious as to the above delta. I am thinking this could be due to the history of priority 2 road designation in the distant past. Was it possible for a street to petition for priority 2 status through the Community Assoc and local Alderman?

[Cage]

While this comment will no doubt infuriate some folks, I think houses like the one you've described should have a surtax against their property tax. In effect these places are using common land to house private property. It would be like renting two stalls from the public purse. Seems logical, no?

I don't htink a surtax is called for, rather lets have nature take its course and determine who either:
A) Wants their street plowed and will adjust their lifestyle for the parking bans.
B) Decides that priority two status for their street is not really worth the hassle.

I have a good feeling that some residents of Charleswood (see previous post) will chose option B.

[suburb]

Why stop there? Why not install parking meters on every square inch of every public road? All parking is the 'using common land to house private property', so why not have everyone who wants to park pay for it, no matter which road they use, or what alternatives are available? If you implement it on certain houses, it's not equitable, so if you want to do it, it should be globally applied, no?

The Toronto option is not a bad one either IE no cars on the street overnight (though the overhead is daunting - almost a make-work project). It certainly is an issue of equity. One person spends money to store cars on their land, and another squats on public land overnight.

Regarding making all curb parking 'for pay', clearly that would not be efficient (though philosophically speaking even more equitable). What we are talking about here is over-nighting. People can come over and visit me in my house - I'll even offer some coffee. But I'd get pretty annoyed if you start sleeping on my floor, let alone without even asking, and then complain about moving when I need to vacuum. People really need to stop using city infrastructure as a free for all and start carrying their weight. This same philosophy has been argued for with respect to those living far from the core - and while potentially annoying while people get used to changes - is a logical philosophy. We need to be consistent at a philosophical level.

[mersar]

Looking the priority 1 and 2 roads and questioning the reasonableness of the priority two roads designated in some communities.

...

I am curious as to the above delta. I am thinking this could be due to the history of priority 2 road designation in the distant past. Was it possible for a street to petition for priority 2 status through the Community Assoc and local Alderman?

Theres a couple factors that determine the priority. These include things like if its a bus route, traffic volumes, emergency services corridors, and even slope (and probably more). I've never heard of a road being upgraded due to community requests, now or historically.

That said, Charleswood and Collingwood do look to have a few roads I'd never have thought were P2's.

[kw5150]

This 5cm snow ban is silly. It should be 15cm...... jeez, we made it through winter 2009 with literally no plowing and I remeber some 20+cm snow events, im sure we can make it through 5cm!! They are treating Calgary like Vancouver......

[5seconds]

The Toronto option is not a bad one either IE no cars on the street overnight (though the overhead is daunting - almost a make-work project). It certainly is an issue of equity. One person spends money to store cars on their land, and another squats on public land overnight.

Regarding making all curb parking 'for pay', clearly that would not be efficient (though philosophically speaking even more equitable). What we are talking about here is over-nighting. People can come over and visit me in my house - I'll even offer some coffee. But I'd get pretty annoyed if you start sleeping on my floor, let alone without even asking, and then complain about moving when I need to vacuum. People really need to stop using city infrastructure as a free for all and start carrying their weight. This same philosophy has been argued for with respect to those living far from the core - and while potentially annoying while people get used to changes - is a logical philosophy. We need to be consistent at a philosophical level.

Even the concept of 'overnight' is arbitrary though. Why is one time period more special than others?

In fact, roads are underutilised at night, but are more active in the day. I think that you would have to ban all on-street parking all the time on every road to be truly equitable.

I don't think that applying a surcharge on parking-less homes makes any sense. We all benefit from road parking, it's a common asset that we share with each other. When demand outstrips supply, then we regulate it as best as we can. If the over-use of a common asset degrades the ability of the majority to use it in the way it was intended, then we restrict usage.

I don't mind common assets being used by all who partly own it.

[Mazrim]

we made it through winter 2009 with literally no plowing and I remeber some 20+cm snow events, im sure we can make it through 5cm!!

Yes, let's use one of the worst driving experiences the City has had in a long time (Winter 2009) as our standard for all winters! The last two winters have been awful for roads clearing out since we didn't get many, if any Chinooks to help. Your memory is failing if you if you think it wasn't a big deal then.

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't think that applying a surcharge on parking-less homes makes any sense. We all benefit from road parking, it's a common asset that we share with each other. When demand outstrips supply, then we regulate it as best as we can. If the over-use of a common asset degrades the ability of the majority to use it in the way it was intended, then we restrict usage.

I don't mind common assets being used by all who partly own it.

I was going to write something similar to this, but now I don't have to. There is a reason we live in a civilization people!

[freeweed]

I was going to write something similar to this, but now I don't have to. There is a reason we live in a civilization people!

I dunno, it seems what's being argued is exactly what I see lobbied towards suburban development on this forum all the time - *I* don't need these fancy freeways and expensive LRT extensions to the boonies, and they cost most to supply, so let's surcharge suburban development.

Road capacity is diminished by on-street parking (conversely, it costs more to build out the infrastructure to provide what is essentially a parking lane). In areas where it's going to be used due to literally no other option - all taxpayers are in effect subsidizing someone's choice to not pay for their own parking spot.

I'd be curious as to why folks here would see such a difference between the 2 things. From an economic perspective, they're identical.

[Ferreth]

Wow, I just heard about the no-parking ban for snow events and the City is already putting up signs in Mayland Heights.

I'll agree that the priority 2 designation needs some rethought - I'd add/remove a few in my area too.

[Wentworth]

The Timberline residents (and Springbank Blvd residents) can continue to take 85th still to Aspen Landing. It's anyone else who may have wanted to cut from Hwy 8 > Lower Springbank > 85 to get there that is cut off.

Agreed though that the kink in the road at 85 just beyond 34 Ave. isn't great. I live near there and the increased traffic can make for a hairy drive through there, especially at night.

For Timberline, I was more suggesting that the builder should still have some accountability to upgrade that road given the potential for 300+ more cars using that road (given that most of the houses have 3 car garages). I agree with you about 85th from Bow-14th. Driving by this morning it appears that that work has started to take place with the utility for Aspen Summit and Highlands complete.


I don't know what is going on with this new lane they built on 85th street, but I don't think it is going to be open for business any time soon. Looks like they've finished work on it, including paving, and the new lane just ends abruptly in some bushes near Bow Trail. I'm guessing the remainder of the lane isn't going to be built until that next parcel gets developed into homes. Damn, that area has become such a brutal bottleneck, too.

Meantime, Glenmore-Hwy 8 has turned into a total gong show since school started. It seems like big trucks (and even school buses) have started to try to bypass the line-up at the Sarcee intersection by driving in the right lane and then cutting into the front of the line at the last minute by pulling onto the "virtual median" just before the intersection. Then today, some guy passed everyone on Highway 8 by driving on the shoulder for a couple of kms.

[Aegis]

I think the controversy of the parking bans during snow events will subside when people see how well it works.

Finally the City is using some creative thinking to solve this snow problem without just throwing money at it and doing the same old thing!

I think we already have downtown parking bans overnight for street cleaning..

[MalcolmTucker]

I dunno, it seems what's being argued is exactly what I see lobbied towards suburban development on this forum all the time - *I* don't need these fancy freeways and expensive LRT extensions to the boonies, and they cost most to supply, so let's surcharge suburban development.

Road capacity is diminished by on-street parking (conversely, it costs more to build out the infrastructure to provide what is essentially a parking lane). In areas where it's going to be used due to literally no other option - all taxpayers are in effect subsidizing someone's choice to not pay for their own parking spot.

I'd be curious as to why folks here would see such a difference between the 2 things. From an economic perspective, they're identical.
New street parking is provided 100% by the developer in land/road costs. Old street already exists. When there is under supply, use price signals to control demand or provide quota for sure but initial provision isn't an issue.

Of course people use street parking to different amounts so one could argue for pricing it all at cost recovery rates - the economics just doesn't work out for almost all of it - market failure would quickly take place. We all benefit from having parking lanes being free where costs aren't needed as a price signal, whether through just having a more efficient society (providing goods at zero consumptive cost can sometimes lead to the optimal level of consumption) or the chance that at some point in our lives we will need to consume a fair bit, just not right now.

If we didn't have parking lanes in most residential communities, how would deliveries and other occasional but very useful parking uses (hosting or attending a party for example) happen?

I for one am not for surcharging development more than their direct costs. There isn't a good (equitable) way to allocate a marginal LRT extension or interchange when the benefits are so diffuse that wouldn't lead to under provision of the costed good and over consumption of non costed goods. Better just to pay for most large capital infrastructure collectively.

[5seconds]

Not the best picture, but the road underneath has temporary lane markings and the pedestrian railings look finished. The median is still needing to be filled (Grass? brick?).

Anyone know when it's suppose to be open?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/jessesalus/Image0036.jpg

[DoubleK]

I think when the direction sign comes down on the traffic signal would be a good sign of it opening.

[Jimby]

the underpass should be open in November

[Bigtime]

I wish I was still in the condo, would love to see how this underpass being open will affect how fast traffic can leave the Saddledome after events.

[You Need A Thneed]

A fresh Airport Trail tunnel update from the city's website:

October update (http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Documents/Road-projects/airport-trail-tunnel-update.pdf)

[Jimby]

The traffic lights are now working at 10 Ave X 14 St SW.

And in Elbow Drive news, no end in sight for road rebuilding, but I'm pleased to see that there is now a sidewalk on the west side of Elbow Drive between Windsor Cr and 58th Ave although the telephone poles and light poles and everything else are placed in the middle of the new sidewalk.

[para transit fellow]

Has anyone heard an update of when when the missing Segment of Metis Trail might open?

(rumour or otherwise)

[You Need A Thneed]

Has anyone heard an update of when when the missing Segment of Metis Trail might open?

(rumour or otherwise)

nothing other than "Fall 2011".

Though the first layer of paving is down, so it could be open in approx a month.

They are really pushing to get Metis open before starting on the other parts of the project, such as twinning 80th Ave NE.

[5seconds]

...the city's Conrad Hild tells 660News the road is not expected to open until the second half of November.

http://www.660news.com/news/local/article/286537--metis-trail-completion-delayed

[DizzyEdge]

The traffic lights are now working at 10 Ave X 14 St SW.

And in Elbow Drive news, no end in sight for road rebuilding, but I'm pleased to see that there is now a sidewalk on the west side of Elbow Drive between Windsor Cr and 58th Ave although the telephone poles and light poles and everything else are placed in the middle of the new sidewalk.

Does that mean there's through-traffic now?

[mersar]

Does that mean there's through-traffic now?

As of this morning, yes.

[Ramsayfarian]

the underpass should be open in November

It looks like it could open now. The bit between 11th and 12th ave opened yesterday.

I'm looking forward to not only less hockey traffic in my hood, but easier access to downtown as well.

[Bigtime]

I saw the new snow route signs up along 2nd Ave in Sunnyside.

[Innersoul1]

I saw the new snow route signs up along 2nd Ave in Sunnyside.

Couple of quick questions about the Snow Route. I apologize if this question has been answered previously.

I am really hoping that the city is going to put more signs up (I know that this comes at quite a cost). On my street for example which is about 250 metres long, there is a sign at the beginning of the street and one at the end. Given their size I would imagine that a lot of people will be caught off gaurd.

Secondly, are the snow routes just snow clearing, as in snow ploughed to side, or actually removed via combine and dump-truck. I am assuming that it is the former, or we would have a serious snow mountain :haha:

[You Need A Thneed]

Apparently 60th Street / 96th Ave connection is open to Stoney Trail as of this morning. I drove by last night, and it looked ready to open.

[Stang]

Random questions about crosswalks: Are the "zebra-style" crosswalks the new standard for the city? I saw a bunch pop up a while back, but it seems that recently I haven't seen any new ones. Or perhaps it was a pilot project of some kind.

If so, will existing crosswalks be repainted eventually, perhaps when the painting crews are there doing other markings?

Personally, I prefer the zebra-style crosswalks as I find they are much easier to see as a motorist. Having the stripes run parallel with the driver's vision just makes them pop out to me more than the thin, perpendicular lines that have been traditionally used.

[Mazrim]

Random questions about crosswalks: Are the "zebra-style" crosswalks the new standard for the city? I saw a bunch pop up a while back, but it seems that recently I haven't seen any new ones. Or perhaps it was a pilot project of some kind.

It appears that way. I noticed this as well as they repainted the crosswalk near my place with the zebra lines as well as the perpendicular lines (a strange combination).

[lineman]

Unless this is now a wide-scale thing, I have only seen zebra crossings appear near schools.

[5seconds]

It took 6-7 minutes to go the 2.5 blocks of 6th ave in the East Village from Confluence Way to the LRT crossing today at 5:15pm. There were no problems apart from the frequency of trains.

I hope this road doesn't become a total mess once there are a few buildings and residents in the area.

[You Need A Thneed]

Apparently 60th Street / 96th Ave connection is open to Stoney Trail as of this morning. I drove by last night, and it looked ready to open.

Drove this section of road last night. There is now, three separate unconnected sections open of what will eventually be one road. 96th ave around Harvest Hills Blvd, Airport Trail between Deerfoot and Barlow, and 96th Ave between 60th Street and Stoney.