Calgary Roads

[craner]

25th Ave. Separation Options:

http://engage.calgary.ca/25AveStudy

I don't really care for any of the 3 options TBH.
I still say connect the Cemetery Hill LRT tunnel to the tunnel north of Stampede so you have LRT underground continuous from north of 39th Ave station all through downtown.

I'm willing to wait a good while until this can be done instead of building a bad option at 25th Ave.

[Corndogger]

I don't really care for any of the 3 options TBH.
I still say connect the Cemetery Hill LRT tunnel to the tunnel north of Stampede so you have LRT underground continuous from north of 39th Ave station all through downtown.

I'm willing to wait a good while until this can be done instead of building a bad option at 25th Ave.

Sounds good to me. Would the cost of doing this be that much more than any of the options they're proposing? Also, why are there no cost estimates for the three options or am I just not seeing them?

[CrossedTheTracks]

Sounds good to me. Would the cost of doing this be that much more than any of the options they're proposing? Also, why are there no cost estimates for the three options or am I just not seeing them?

I see no numbers. It just says option A is most expensive, option B is least expensive.

[CTrainDude]

Sounds good to me. Would the cost of doing this be that much more than any of the options they're proposing? Also, why are there no cost estimates for the three options or am I just not seeing them?
B would be a fair bit cheaper than any other options (besides doing nothing), just because option B makes absolutely no changes to the LRT infrastructure - all the other options would require costly LRT construction.

[speedog]

The Anderson complex opened in 1982. It was decent then, when there was almost nothing east of the river. Deerfoot was designed for 80k a day and would do decently well at that volume. The problem is that it will hit 170k a day this year and they haven't done jack shit to upgrade it.

I dunno how much fault lies with the designers who did the best they could with the funds available and built a decent road.

Gotta blame someone, no? :shrug:

[milomilo]

My opinion is back then they seemed to go out of their way to build bad interchanges. All those unnecessary silly loop ramps and every movement having it's own lane off the mainline. They could have just put a simpler signalised interchange in which would have worked fine, been cheaper and not burdened us with a gigantic messy interchange that's hard to fix.

[srperrycgy]

The Southland/Anderson/Bow Bottom basketweave in Deerfoot hopefully will rate some funding. Just putting it out there, but the temporary bridge at 37th St & Glenmore will be removed once the permanent interchange is built with the Ring Road work. Perhaps, it could be repurposed for this basketweave.

[craner]

^That's a good thought

[Mazrim]

I also find numerous areas on Deerfoot where right lanes end for no reason as there is room to continue them. For example northbound Deerfoot right after Anderson it goes from 3 lanes down to two. Or southbound Deerfoot at the Southland drive overpass.

The answer is a bit complicated but the general idea is that the lanes need to end for the road to work. The alternative would be way more lanes on the road, which when they built the road was not necessary. Merging the outside lane after an exit only lane leaves the freeway is a common way to achieve lane balance, which is important when just upstream is a large volume of traffic coming onto the freeway.

Between Glenmore and Anderson, Deerfoot only has two core lanes in each direction. To achieve lane balance, you would merge one of the auxiliary lanes to make room for the high volume merging on. If Deerfoot had three core lanes there, you would see 5, 6 and 7 lanes in one direction in some stretches, which also isn't really advisable if you have lots of traffic looking to get to the right lanes for the next exit or a future successive exit. At that point you're looking at basket-weaves and C-D roads to manage those high volumes.

Here's the best visual representation I can give you:
http://i.imgur.com/C5Wm1Im.png

EDIT: Here's a diagram of what I would do for Southbound Deerfoot. The large turning volumes present an interesting problem that requires some basic lane violations.
http://i.imgur.com/133mniz.png

[DoubleK]

Is there any reason they don't meter the traffic onto Deerfoot as they do in other large cities? Does it not work?

I appreciate they might need to redesign some of the on ramps, but doubling up the traffic at the metering points effectively doubles the capacity of the on ramps.

[Corndogger]

Is there any reason they don't meter the traffic onto Deerfoot as they do in other large cities? Does it not work?

I appreciate they might need to redesign some of the on ramps, but doubling up the traffic at the metering points effectively doubles the capacity of the on ramps.

AB Transportation has been talking about doing ramp metering for well over a decade. My understanding is that it can be effective and doesn't cost too much to implement. Is there something about the current design of Deerfoot that needs to be addressed first for ramp metering to be effective?

[DoubleK]

NB Deerfoot from Glenmore to 64th Ave would be a great candidate test location. On a smaller scale doing only 32nd and McKnight would be a good test as well. Not many options for people to bypass the metering points.

[Rollerstud98]

NB Deerfoot from Glenmore to 64th Ave would be a great candidate test location. On a smaller scale doing only [b]32nd and McKnight[/b[ would be a good test as well. Not many options for people to bypass the metering points.

At peak times metering seems like it would just create a lot more problems upstream. Those are 2 very busy on ramps from about 2:45-5:00ish.

[DoubleK]

That's impossible to know without trying it. The capacity of the ramp will be doubled by the metering points.

[srperrycgy]

Spoke to one of the engineers at the Sarcee/Richmond open houses, and I asked about the re-use of the 37th street/Glenmore bridge (The proposed new interchange also has a basket weave and bridge).

He said that they girders were originally surplus because they were 'imperfect'. Maybe something about the amount of concrete coating the steel? In any case, they understood that the girders would not last as long as they should, which is why they were not used in their original project, and that they were suitable for the temporary G37 bridge. He said that they would not reuse that bridge in any permanent location.

You can see the draft recommended design and give feedback here: http://engage.calgary.ca/SarceeRichmond and the open house is also on tomorrow.

PDF: https://www.calgary.ca/engage/Documents/SarceeRichmondInterchange/Sarcee_Richmond_Map.pdf

Thanks for asking about the bridge. :tup:

[DoubleK]

You'll have to explain how you arrive at the conclusion that a single-lane ramp which has horribly failed at 1,400 vehicles per hour will be able to handle 2,800 vehicles per hour, far more than a typical multi-lane semi-directional flyover, by literally stopping traffic.

Acey,

You know exactly how metering works. Two lanes are formed on the same ramp. Capacity is doubled.

Clearly there isn't funding for "$30M flyovers" and trying something new for a minimal expense is better than settling for the status quo.

[UofC.engineer]

4m wide multi-use pathways! Fancy. I think the standard is 3m.

[CrossedTheTracks]

You know exactly how metering works. Two lanes are formed on the same ramp. Capacity is doubled.

Sorry to be pedantic, but capacity is not "size of pavement", it is "size of pavement X flow".

It's conceivable to me that metering can actually increase flow if it manages to avoid merge failure, but I'd certainly need to see proof of such in modeling or actual experience. Simply doubling the merge lanes doesn't allow you to say, "capacity is doubled".

Moreover, some metering systems with two lanes on the ramp dedicate one lane to HOV (and that lane is unmetered). Arguably a good incentive to HOV usage, but a very different kind of "doubling".

[Mazrim]

These days we don't really need to experiment with construction either - traffic modeling software is sophisticated enough that we can pretty accurately how traffic will behave in different situations, especially only worrying about existing volumes. You can even account for the sometimes bizarre ways Calgarians will drive in traffic. Queuing behaviors can be modeled for ramp metering with no real issues.

The only place where it falls apart is when development growth doesn't end up matching the predicted growth and the number change significantly, but as long as the model is kept regularly up to date it shouldn't be too much of an issue in most places.

[You Need A Thneed]

Short term Crowchild over Bow and Bow improvements, to start later this year:

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Pages/Projects/Current-Planning-Projects/crowchild-trail-study/Crowchild-trail-study-short-term-recommended-plan.aspx

[craner]

^That calls for celebration !!

What is being done in the median of 14th Street SW - is it BRT related ?

[You Need A Thneed]

^That calls for celebration !!

What is being done in the median of 14th Street SW - is it BRT related ?

Yes, SWBRT construction.

In fact, there are now 4 BRT lines under construction right now:

North Crosstown
17th Ave SE
South Crosstown
SW BRT

[Porfiry]

Yes, SWBRT construction.

Nope, they're installing a natural gas line.

[You Need A Thneed]

Nope, they're installing a natural gas line.

Which is part of the SWBRT construction.

[Porfiry]

Which is part of the SWBRT construction.

No, they'd be doing it regardless of the BRT.

[srperrycgy]

I filmed this over the May long weekend. Since then, there has been a few changes.

avbBUjVcfaw

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Well, could at least have bylaw there issuing fines for running trucks without pulling back the load covers while full a few times a week for a few weeks.

[suburbia]

https://calgaryringroad.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/img_3726-1.jpg

Looks like a fairly deserted road, in all honesty. There is nothing on one side, it is double-wide, and the number of users in the image is rather minuscule. Is it a real issue? How many trucks are we talking about and for how long? Is it mostly daytime when people are generally awake and at work / school, or is this going into the midnight hours where it actually effects people?

The areas in the SW really need to pick and choose their battles. If they start complaining about everything, people will stop listening to them. Currently they are seeming like a bunch of whiners, though I guess the blowhards are likely a very small number.

[Corndogger]

Yea, it's more SWRR related than SWBRT. The main line under 14th street is essentially being moved to the SWRR corridor.

That's why it's so irritating to hear anti-SWBRT people claim that the City didn't know about the high-pressure gas lines under 14th, and that they are only moving them now that their group found out about them. Nope, sorry. The move was planned years ago.

According to this page on Atco's website it definitely has to do with the SWBRT.

http://www.atcopipelines.com/upr/Projects/Southwest-Bus-Rapid-Transit-BRT

[MalcolmTucker]

Well, otherwise it would have been abandoned in place or downgraded to low pressure? Since some oil lines need to come out, all together and in advance of BRT made sense.

[fusili]

According to this page on Atco's website it definitely has to do with the SWBRT.

http://www.atcopipelines.com/upr/Projects/Southwest-Bus-Rapid-Transit-BRT

Read it again.

[Porfiry]

According to this page on Atco's website it definitely has to do with the SWBRT.

It's "in coordination" with the city, which just means they're not stepping on each others toes with these two separate projects that happen to overlap.

ATCO is moving their high pressure lines to the Ring Road, and are building new lines to connect to this. This involves several corridors, such as 90th all the way to the Ring Road, not just 14th.

If anything, I think this pipeline is actually impeding BRT construction. If it wasn't for ATCO I'm pretty sure the city would be building the BRT right now. Last year their plan was to start building the BRT in 2016 and be finished by 2018. Now it looks like they'll only start in 2018 and be done in 2019/2020.

[Corndogger]

Read it again.

I suggest you read it again. It's a huge stretch for anyone to say this has NOTHING to do with the SWBRT.

[Corndogger]

It's "in coordination" with the city, which just means they're not stepping on each others toes with these two separate projects that happen to overlap.

ATCO is moving their high pressure lines to the Ring Road, and are building new lines to connect to this. This involves several corridors, such as 90th all the way to the Ring Road, not just 14th.

If anything, I think this pipeline is actually impeding BRT construction. If it wasn't for ATCO I'm pretty sure the city would be building the BRT right now. Last year their plan was to start building the BRT in 2016 and be finished by 2018. Now it looks like they'll only start in 2018 and be done in 2019/2020.

I'm surprised the city didn't build it without consulting ATCO. It would have been a repeat of what happened on Elbow Drive. I'm hoping the next council revisits this project as it's not going to solve any problems but will likely create many.

[DoubleK]

I suggest you read it again. It's a huge stretch for anyone to say this has NOTHING to do with the SWBRT.

The urban pipeline project would proceed with or without the SWBRT.

The only thing they are doing, and rightly so, is coordinating construction.

[Corndogger]

The urban pipeline project would proceed with or without the SWBRT.

The only thing they are doing, and rightly so, is coordinating construction.

But would have it proceeded under this timeline? The 2010 date would link this to the SWBRT much more than it would the SWRR.

[speedog]

Jeez, the is becoming a mind numbing argument.

[Rollerstud98]

Jeez, the is becoming a mind numbing argument.

Yup, somebody can't admit that they misunderstood the scope of the project.

[ken0042]

Does anybody have info as to what is happening with 130th ave SE? There are signs up indicating construction from June 19 and continuing for months. However I can't find anything on the City's website.

[MalcolmTucker]

http://i.imgur.com/IzIIdqn.png

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/Roads/Documents/Traffic/capital-works-map.pdf

Labeled as TRANSIT PROJECTS. BRT?

[Corndogger]

Yes. Even if the SWBRT had never even been thought of, 14th street would still be under construction today. The timeline of the SWBRT, as I understand it, has actually been pushed back because of the ATCO work. The reason it is happening now is because the Province wants the underground utilities in place before the interchanges and bridge pilings etc. are built for the ring road. Underground utilities first, road second. They couldn't have done it sooner because the SWRR project only just started, and they couldn't do it later, because they need to get on with building the road.



Without the SWRR, there would be nowhere to put the new line, so it would have remained under 14th street. The reason it's moving at all is because in 2013 the Tsuut'ina Nation agreed to the SWRR corridor, which is a TUC and has space for the new line.

The presence of the SWBRT had no bearing on the ATCO work that I know of, apart from the City asking ATCO to work in such a way as to make their subsequent work easier.

Is there any reason you are looking to link the two projects?

I'm linking them because of the dates and info we have available. In 2010 the present location of the SWRR looked like it would never happen because of the failed referendum in 2009. So in 2010 there was no place to move the pipeline. That's why ATCO's initial plan was to convert the pipeline from high-pressure to low-pressure and construct a new low-pressure line.​ The city has said numerous times that they were already distributing information about the SWBRT in 2010. I can't find any evidence that ATCO planned on doing their conversion right away so them speeding up the process when they did would seem to point to a link with the SWBRT. Of course once a deal was reached with the Tsuu T'ina in 2013 ATCO was able to do what they really want which is move the pipeline out of the area completely. So in that sense there is a link with the SWRR. What I don't understand is why are some of you guys not seeing the connections with the SWBRT. If the City was telling area residents about the SWBRT in 2010 they probably talked to ATCO before that. To me the timeline would strongly suggest that the SWBRT played a significant role in ATCO's plans for 14 Street.

[Rollerstud98]

Just as far as construction timing.

[srperrycgy]

Interchange #2 from my long weekend drive.

BB6pao5k92k

[Corndogger]

[QUOTE=srperrycgy;7838026]Interchange #2 from my long weekend drive.

Good video and a nice touch including the cost and expected time of completion info. I need to take a look at exactly what the city is doing at Glenmore/Odgen Road b/c based on your video of that interchange project it looks like it should cost less than this one not 60% (?) more. Were there parts of that project that you couldn't film from your car?

[srperrycgy]

Interchange #2 from my long weekend drive.

Good video and a nice touch including the cost and expected time of completion info. I need to take a look at exactly what the city is doing at Glenmore/Odgen Road b/c based on your video of that interchange project it looks like it should cost less than this one not 60% (?) more. Were there parts of that project that you couldn't film from your car?

Nope. I was looking for a basic overview of the construction from that particular moment from a driver's eye. I'm using a different video editing program that I needed to break in as well. The difference in cost could be associated with the bridges and the need for a lot more earth moving with Glenmore/Ogden. Just a guess.

[milomilo]

http://engage.calgary.ca/SouthShaganappi

Long term plans for Shaganappi/16th are out; tight diamond.

If you're going to have to replace the flyovers anyway, I think the best solution for this would have been the at grade intersections. It was decided that 16th would not be a freeway, so this plan is contrary to that and has no real benefit to drivers anyway. The short term stuff looks fine though.

[technomad]

Agreed on the short term plans, long term less so, but those can easy change again. I don't think adding intersections to 16th is the right way to go, not when new jobs, facilities and higher density infill are being added into the area.

What we need is a way to bridge the free-flow gaps on 16th between stoney and crowchild, and move that traffic away from the residential areas

[Joborule]

Agreed on the short term plans, long term less so, but those can easy change again. I don't think adding intersections to 16th is the right way to go, not when new jobs, facilities and higher density infill are being added into the area.

What we need is a way to bridge the free-flow gaps on 16th between stoney and crowchild, and move that traffic away from the residential areas

It does remove the Bowness Road connection from 16th, so it is removing one less interchange, while keeping 16th free flow. By this, the only thing that would need to be planned to make 16th free flow from Stoney to Crowchild is an interchange design at 29th street, and how to go through Montgomery. If I had it my way, I would do a 4 lane tunnel from 43 street up to Home Road, and above ground could be a 2 lane main street that connects the community, and provides a urban road.

[milomilo]

It does remove the Bowness Road connection from 16th, so it is removing one less interchange, while keeping 16th free flow. By this, the only thing that would need to be planned to make 16th free flow from Stoney to Crowchild is an interchange design at 29th street, and how to go through Montgomery. If I had it my way, I would do a 4 lane tunnel from 43 street up to Home Road, and above ground could be a 2 lane main street that connects the community, and provides a urban road.

What does that actually achieve though, it provides no major benefits other than a very minor speed increase? There is normally not a huge amount of traffic through Montgomery to slow you down.

I do think Calgary made a major mistake in past decades by not planning for an east-west through route, but that ship has sailed and there is no chance we can turn 16th into a freeway, and no real point either. JLB/McKnight might be an option, but there is also no good way to join that onto Crowchild. 16th should definitely have it's TCH status removed though and moved onto the 201.

[Joborule]

What does that actually achieve though, it provides no major benefits other than a very minor speed increase? There is normally not a huge amount of traffic through Montgomery to slow you down.

I do think Calgary made a major mistake in past decades by not planning for an east-west through route, but that ship has sailed and there is no chance we can turn 16th into a freeway, and no real point either. JLB/McKnight might be an option, but there is also no good way to join that onto Crowchild. 16th should definitely have it's TCH status removed though and moved onto the 201.

It doesn't achieve all that much more for the vehicles yes, but it's going to continue to have a lot of traffic through there either way, will increase (West Calgary communities and Springbank population increase), and this is traffic that's going right through the middle of a community with great potential. That's why I would like for 16 to be tunneled through that small portion of Montgomery. It's moreso for the community itself, rather than vehicular traffic. 16 acts as a divider, and will continue to remain so in it's current form. If it's buried, then it's the best for everything involved.

If the city wants to fulfill it's plans in turning that area into a commercial district, it would be wise to keep through traffic away in order to fulfill it's full potential. Pedestrians aren't gonna be as tempted to activity walk down, across the street, and do patio street side dining, or apartment building living if they have to cross and deal with 4-6 lanes of through traffic; that includes freight trucks.

As for a northern expressway route. I don't think there will ever be a true central one that runs from end to end. That ship has sailed, and honestly isn't really needed since all of the NW is residential essentially. What they could do is as you said, make McKnight/JBL a freeway up to Shaganappi. And then if desired, there may be enough space to make a pseudo E-W free-flow connection with Crowchild via Shaganappi; making it an informal E-W expressway from one end to the other.

Completely agree that the TCH needs to move on to the 201, and it should continue on down 22X and reconnect with the currently alignment around the Gleichen vicinity.

[milomilo]

It doesn't achieve all that much more for the vehicles yes, but it's going to continue to have a lot of traffic through there either way, will increase (West Calgary communities and Springbank population increase), and this is traffic that's going right through the middle of a community with great potential. That's why I would like for 16 to be tunneled through that small portion of Montgomery. It's moreso for the community itself, rather than vehicular traffic. 16 acts as a divider, and will continue to remain so in it's current form. If it's buried, then it's the best for everything involved.

If the city wants to fulfill it's plans in turning that area into a commercial district, it would be wise to keep through traffic away in order to fulfill it's full potential. Pedestrians aren't gonna be as tempted to activity walk down, across the street, and do patio street side dining, or apartment building living if they have to cross and deal with 4-6 lanes of through traffic; that includes freight trucks.

As for a northern expressway route. I don't think there will ever be a true central one that runs from end to end. That ship has sailed, and honestly isn't really needed since all of the NW is residential essentially. What they could do is as you said, make McKnight/JBL a freeway up to Shaganappi. And then if desired, there may be enough space to make a pseudo E-W free-flow connection with Crowchild via Shaganappi; making it an informal E-W expressway from one end to the other.

Completely agree that the TCH needs to move on to the 201, and it should continue on down 22X and reconnect with the currently alignment around the Gleichen vicinity.

:tup: Fair enough, agreed with all that. I agree that the city shouldn't be directing it's main routes down residential/commercial roads as it ruins their potential. Roads like 16th ave and Macleod are trying to be all things at once and end up failing miserably at all of them.

[srperrycgy]

The last of my 3 interchange construction videos. It's probably out of date now as this project is moving along quickly.

pOUZw-kcMRs

[msmariner]

E/B traffic complete free flow on ultimate alignment now. W/B traffic will be under the bridge on the ultimate alligment in the first week of July

[craner]

Thanks for the videos srperrycgy, I always enjoy those.

As for TCH/16th Ave:
I would like to see it free-flow west of Crowchild and east of Deerfoot.
I also like the idea of upgrading Mcknight/JLB as a north side freeway and connecting it to Crowchild & 16th Ave via Shag (don't think any of that is going to happen though):(

[Mazrim]

For 16 Ave in the West end, I feel like the Bow River is where the line for free-flow should start and end. The amount of work to make it free flow between Home Road and Shaganappi isn't worth it, there doesn't seem to be any plans to upgrade 29th Street at the hospital, and the Crowchild study is adding lights to 16 Ave for the ultimate plan there.

It's not like there's an absence of decent options to get East/West in the North end of the City though, so I don't feel like radically changing the transportation plan to achieve that is worth it.

[msmariner]

For 16 Ave in the West end, I feel like the Bow River is where the line for free-flow should start and end. The amount of work to make it free flow between Home Road and Shaganappi isn't worth it, there doesn't seem to be any plans to upgrade 29th Street at the hospital, and the Crowchild study is adding lights to 16 Ave for the ultimate plan there.

It's not like there's an absence of decent options to get East/West in the North end of the City though, so I don't feel like radically changing the transportation plan to achieve that is worth it.

16th & 29th st is in the middle of a full upgrade right now

[msmariner]

Was driving down Blackfoot/17 ave SE @ Deerfoot this morning and noticed quite a few PCL construction trailers sitting in the old ball diamonds at 19th st/Blackfoot. I'm guessing they are starting construction of the bridges over the Bow River, Deerfoot Tr and the canal for the 17th ave SE BRT. Anyone have any info on this? There is a excavator sitting in the SW corner of the Deerfoot interchange. There is a lot of construction fencing and survey stakes

[ClaytonA]

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Pages/Transit-projects/17-ave-se-brt-phase-2-28-st-se-to-9-ave-se.aspx

They've already done work in the river and irrrigation canal.
There's even webcams set up.

[You Need A Thneed]

Was driving down Blackfoot/17 ave SE @ Deerfoot this morning and noticed quite a few PCL construction trailers sitting in the old ball diamonds at 19th st/Blackfoot. I'm guessing they are starting construction of the bridges over the Bow River, Deerfoot Tr and the canal for the 17th ave SE BRT. Anyone have any info on this? There is a excavator sitting in the SW corner of the Deerfoot interchange. There is a lot of construction fencing and survey stakes

I'd guess that construction setup is more for phase 1 than phase 2, but it could be both.

[Mazrim]

16th & 29th st is in the middle of a full upgrade right now

Sure, but it's only adding lanes, not a full grade separation that some would like to see, which was my point about the area.

[Ferreth]

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Pages/Transit-projects/17-ave-se-brt-phase-2-28-st-se-to-9-ave-se.aspx

They've already done work in the river and irrrigation canal.
There's even webcams set up.

I cycle the irrigation canal regularly. So far, tree clearing and surveying is done there. Soil stripping is supposed to start in June but I have not seen anything yet.

For what is going to be the first high grade BRT in Calgary, I find this project to be totally going under the radar. Bridges over Deerfoot, Bow River and Irrigation canal; separate ROW all down 17th - it is going to be a huge transit improvement for east Calgary.

[msmariner]

I cycle the irrigation canal regularly. So far, tree clearing and surveying is done there. Soil stripping is supposed to start in June but I have not seen anything yet.

For what is going to be the first high grade BRT in Calgary, I find this project to be totally going under the radar. Bridges over Deerfoot, Bow River and Irrigation canal; separate ROW all down 17th - it is going to be a huge transit improvement for east Calgary.

I agree. The amount of attention the upgrades on 17th SW has received is incredible compared to this project. I think this will be a game changer for Forest Lawn and the surrounding communities.

[ggopher]

At City Council on Monday, they reviewed an application to the federal government for funding from the National Trade Corridor Fund, the goal is to finish Airport Trail:


This project involves the construction of two new interchanges, the extension of Airport Trail east of 36 Street NE through Metis Trail to 60 Street NE, and completion of the southbound to westbound ramp at the existing partial interchange between Stoney Trail and Airport Trail.

Total Cost = $95 million
Airport Authority would contribute $37.5 million towards the project.

http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/cache/2/23e5yx2tdr4mxzszsusvtdbh/57243207242017074954327.PDF
(http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/cache/2/23e5yx2tdr4mxzszsusvtdbh/57243207242017074954327.PDF)

[Corndogger]

At City Council on Monday, they reviewed an application to the federal government for funding from the National Trade Corridor Fund, the goal is to finish Airport Trail:

The link is dead. Anyway, that cost is a lot lower than what I recall the city initially saying it would be to extend Airport Trail to Stoney.

[Corndogger]

This link might work: Airport Trail Phase 2 Corridor (http://ow.ly/Z2tV30dTdRU) (archived (http://ow.ly/CBVn30dTe1A))

Need a link that goes back to when the tunnel was still under construction or just opening.

If they're going to do this project it would be best to do it all at once. It's not that big of a project when you think about it.

[PPAR]

At City Council on Monday, they reviewed an application to the federal government for funding from the National Trade Corridor Fund, the goal is to finish Airport Trail:

Not crazy about the airport authority funding roads that are not even on their property. Raises concerns about the legitimacy of the "airport improvement fee".

[MalcolmTucker]

[del]

[MalcolmTucker]

[del]

[jeremy.r]

The plan from 2012:
96 Avenue N.E. (Airport Trail) Functional Planning Study - Deerfoot Trail to Stoney Trail
http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Documents/Projects/Current-Planning-Projects/transportation-study-presentation.pdf

There's an updated study that was approved by Council in April 2017:

http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=48840

[craner]

News of upgrading Airport Trail and interchange access to YYC is promising ... and I welcome the AA and Feds covering most of the cost, no issue with that at all. :tup:
What I'm not crazy about is the AA wanting to maintain the existing Barlow Trail access for as long as possible.:shrug:

[technomad]

Good to see airport trail getting fast tracked. Having some solid links between deerfoot and east stoney in place will really help shift the traffic around when the deerfoot overhaul happens

[milomilo]

Unique interchange, first of its kind in Canada, opens in south Calgary (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/diverging-diamond-interchange-opens-calgary-1.4245773)

Anyone had a chance to check out how the DDI works for real yet?

[Doug]

Unique interchange, first of its kind in Canada, opens in south Calgary (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/diverging-diamond-interchange-opens-calgary-1.4245773)

Anyone had a chance to check out how the DDI works for real yet?

Lots of them in the States. First one I saw was around 2008 south of Salt Lake. Several existing interchanges along I 15 have subsequently converted to diverging diamond. They seem to keep the cross over traffic moving more efficiently than a traditional diamond.

[Bri-Guy]

Unique interchange, first of its kind in Canada, opens in south Calgary (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/diverging-diamond-interchange-opens-calgary-1.4245773)

Anyone had a chance to check out how the DDI works for real yet?

I was able to check it out yesterday. It is mostly open and functioning generally overall. There currently is no access from NB Macleod, will be completed by end of Sept as the existing approach is removed and reworked. Also the SB Macleod to Shawville Blvd route (behind Home Depot) is not opened yet. Should be completed imminently, only some asphalt completions required I believe.

People have been used to this being a warzone for quite some time, so I expect people to continue to be somewhat tentative travelling through for the time being. Still lacking curbs and medians for much of the south side east and west of the south bridge. But people should be happy that there is MUCH more room that at previous construction phases.

Traffic wasn't normal on the weekend as the entire interchange was closed and traffic detoured for the weekend, but it will be interesting to see how the SB Macleod traffic flow adjusts now that they have no ability to directly access Shawville Blvd immediately south of 162nd. This was a necessary change, but will cause the most grief for frequent users. At the open houses for the The City acknowledges that there will be some additional impacts on the road network withing Shawnessy shopping area. Their approach is to wait and seen where the problems arise, and the severity before addressing. I guarantee that the intersections of Shawville Way/Shawville Link (near the Tim Horton's) and Shawville Link/Shawville Blvd (next to Payless shoes and ATB) will become much more problematic going forward due to redirected traffic, and lack of sufficient traffic controls at these locations.

Currently WB to SB is the lowest volume movement at this interchange, but it does get busy at times, and will will tend to increase as the ring road is completed, and the ring road is seen to be much superior for travelling across the region west and south of the Shawnessy shopping area.

[DoubleK]

Also the SB Macleod to Shawville Blvd route (behind Home Depot) is not opened yet. Should be completed imminently, only some asphalt completions required I believe.


This was open as of last night.

People have been used to this being a warzone for quite some time, so I expect people to continue to be somewhat tentative travelling through for the time being. Still lacking curbs and medians for much of the south side east and west of the south bridge. But people should be happy that there is MUCH more room that at previous construction phases.


I live in Silverado and frequent the area on a daily basis. The disruptions during the construction of this massive undertaking was minimal. A couple days of nightly closures to place girders is really nothing in the grand scheme. The most impacted movement was N/B McLeod to 162nd/Sun Valley. As mentioned above, that isn't the largest movement at this location.

The contractor and the city planners have done an amazing job of minimizing detours and, more generally, the impacts of construction on the community and surrounding businesses. Getting McLeod free flow so early in the project was a huge win for the area. Shawville was a cluster before the construction started, so any disruption there would be minimal versus the status quo.

This project has been a total success by any measure.

[Bri-Guy]

They need to do some work to balance the light cycles. I'll wait until the construction work is complete before I get excited about that.
Aside from that, things seem to be working well. I just wish that there weren't so many lanes, I realize they (must be) required to handle the volume. If there were fewer lanes, the lights when you exit Macleod and turn left to cross the bridges over Macleod could have been eliminated. That would have been cool.

[msmariner]

They need to do some work to balance the light cycles. I'll wait until the construction work is complete before I get excited about that.
Aside from that, things seem to be working well. I just wish that there weren't so many lanes, I realize they (must be) required to handle the volume. If there were fewer lanes, the lights when you exit Macleod and turn left to cross the bridges over Macleod could have been eliminated. That would have been cool.

I agree on the lights. The city kinda cheaper out with the design. A proper div. diamond interchange uses bridges instead of lights

[milomilo]

I agree on the lights. The city kinda cheaper out with the design. A proper div. diamond interchange uses bridges instead of lights

No they don't? This is definitely a 'proper' diverging diamond.

[Corndogger]

No they don't? This is definitely a 'proper' diverging diamond.

They definitely use lights.

[MalcolmTucker]

[del]

[msmariner]

There are no examples of a diverging stack built anywhere in the world. It was only patented in 2015 as the Double Crossover Merging Interchange (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange#Double_Crossover_Merging_Interchange).

Your correct that none have been built. Though I do remember an early rendering from the city being a DCMI.. this version is much cheaper and quite effective in my opinion

[MalcolmTucker]

The original 7 investigated options:
http://i.imgur.com/TBf9CGg.jpg

[lubicon]

Electronic signage on ramp from SB Stoney to EB TCH at Winsport this morning says 'Construction Complete, Thank You!'. This pertains to the Bowfort interchange and while construction is essentially complete they are still doing finishing touches on landscaping, signage etc. and naturally the construction speed limit is still 50.

[craner]

^They still have to install the other half of the "artwork" on the north side too - right ? ;)
Why put a sign up saying "Construction Complete" when the speed limit is still 50? :shrug:

[lubicon]

^They still have to install the other half of the "artwork" on the north side too - right ? ;)
Why put a sign up saying "Construction Complete" when the speed limit is still 50? :shrug:

Exactly my thoughts too. Technically the interchange is officially open to pretty much all the final traffic movements but until the last piece of equipment is gone from the site, ALL the roadway construction is complete, and the construction signs come down then they shouldn't really be saying it is complete.

[DoubleK]

Why put a sign up saying "Construction Complete" when the speed limit is still 50? :shrug:

50kph is vastly better than when the light was there and traffic averaged 5kph.

[craner]

^ I'm not complaining about the 50km speed limit but they shouldn't have a sign saying "Construction Complete" when it is still a construction zone.

[craner]

^Very cool.
Did you just stumble across that doing some research ?

[milomilo]

And 49 years later we still have the legacy of that abomination of an interchange, they'd have been kinder to us if they'd built nothing. Literally the worst piece of road infrastructure I have ever seen, save for maybe some of the stuff in Edmonton. Surely in the 60's they had some idea of what worked and what didn't with roads?

[milomilo]

On a more positive note, work should be starting soon to help fix that past mistake.

Crowchild Trail Study: short-term recommended plan
(http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Pages/Projects/Current-Planning-Projects/crowchild-trail-study/Crowchild-trail-study-short-term-recommended-plan.aspx)

The bridge widening is supposed to start in the fall. This will massively improve northbound and southbound traffic flow.

[PPAR]

And 49 years later we still have the legacy of that abomination of an interchange, they'd have been kinder to us if they'd built nothing. Literally the worst piece of road infrastructure I have ever seen, save for maybe some of the stuff in Edmonton. Surely in the 60's they had some idea of what worked and what didn't with roads?

Totally agree. No mention in the article about what happened when the Chief was heading east on Bow and wanted to go south on Crowchild...

[milomilo]

Edmonton's roads are also a joke, but there's no single interchange in Edmonton as embarrassing and detrimental to the overall road system as Crow/Bow is to Calgary's. Instead, Edmonton just carries its traffic on surface streets and lacks interchanges, period.

I haven't spent too much time in Edmonton to savour its road delights so I'm glad you don't have anything quite so bad, but there were a few places that had a very similar 'feel' to Calgary's worst examples - lots of the approaches to bridges crossing the river for example, and the interchange of Whitemud and Terwillegar. They might not even necessarily function too badly (I wouldn't know), but they just annoy me with their needless complexity and ramps splitting off everywhere.

[craner]

On a more positive note, work should be starting soon to help fix that past mistake.

Crowchild Trail Study: short-term recommended plan
(http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Pages/Projects/Current-Planning-Projects/crowchild-trail-study/Crowchild-trail-study-short-term-recommended-plan.aspx)

The bridge widening is supposed to start in the fall. This will massively improve northbound and southbound traffic flow.

Yayy! :)
Such a painfully long timeframe for the full Crowchild 24th NW to 17th SW upgrades though. :(

[technomad]

Getting the mid-range plans for completing Crowchild to freeway spec going would sure be a great 50th birthday present..

[Mazrim]

From what I've been told, expect whoever wins the Crowchild work to be starting in late October or early November. It sounds like the schedule is pretty aggressive.

[kap384]

From what I've been told, expect whoever wins the Crowchild work to be starting in late October or early November. It sounds like the schedule is pretty aggressive.

Great news!

[DoubleK]

Wrong thread.

[Corndogger]

Wrong thread.

How is it the wrong forum?

[milomilo]

Nice. $87 million seems like great value for the massive improvement this will bring. I'm glad my commute doesn't involve Crowchild for the next two years though!

[Corndogger]

Nice. $87 million seems like great value for the massive improvement this will bring. I'm glad my commute doesn't involve Crowchild for the next two years though!

$87 million is definitely a lot less than the inflated amounts John Mar and Druh bandied about the last time in their attempts to kill this project. One thing that I will hate with a passion is the artificially low speed limits they will impose for probably the next three years. This project is going to impact me a lot as the alternate routes are too far away to be useful unless there's also a major accident.