[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[worldlyhaligonian]

I don't see how having standing at the UARB has any relevance to the matter; but that will be up to them to defend.


How did they get this "standing" position... they are regular people, why do they have a special privilege for their little joke of a group that constantly is having detrimental impact on the progression of developments, causing financial pains to developers and citizens alike.

[curnhalio]

:haha: I'm sure the costs incurred in delays far outstrip the HT's ability to pay them. At the very least HT should have to pay court costs in regard to this particular suit.

This project was expensive enough as it was TYVM, but all HT have served to do is add unnecessary expense that will have to be borne, most likely by the taxpayers funding it in the first place.

[xanaxanax]

I hope they sweat more than I did when I got hit with a SLAP lawsuit when I was working up north. I just got the paperwork back that the person who filed it has withdrawn it...but now I've hired the lawyer to hit him with one for slander. :)

Do you want a pat on the back or something

[Colin May]

With a lottery win I'd be in court fighting HRM on a regular basis. The staff and council make "I dare you to sue ' decisions and are rarely challenged.
Case in point ; the rules for speaking at a public meeting in support or against a development or planning strategy change. Time for a staff presentation is unlimited. The applicant gets 10 minutes and can share it with the architect or the developer. Staff and the applicant can display an unlimited number of images. A person supporting or opposing or recommending changes to the application can speak for 5 minutes and use no more than 2 images.
When closing the applicant gets 5 minutes and the staff have no time limit and can, and do introduce new evidence.
A planning hearing is a quasi-judicial proceeding. HRM rules set out in Administrative Order 1 do not meet the definition of 'procedural fairness'.
On that ground alone any person could have challenged the Nova Centre decision,and every other decision made by council, after a public hearing.
I'm looking forward to winning the lottery because I doubt any provincial government will put a stop to HRM shenanigans.

[Keith P.]

I have noticed recently the arrival of what appears to be A Putzmister tower placing system - basically a large tower concrete pump arm.

Photos from http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/

I believe most highrises to date have used buckets on the tower crane for pouring columns and slabs.

I love the name "Putzmeister"!! :D

[OldDartmouthMark]

I love the name "Putzmeister"!! :D

"Plaster Master"

It's interesting that they've been a valuable tool in containing nuclear plant accidents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putzmeister

[counterfactual]

I love the name "Putzmeister"!! :D

:haha:

[JET]

:haha: I'm sure the costs incurred in delays far outstrip the HT's ability to pay them. At the very least HT should have to pay court costs in regard to this particular suit.

This project was expensive enough as it was TYVM, but all HT have served to do is add unnecessary expense that will have to be borne, most likely by the taxpayers funding it in the first place.

Heritage Trust might only be expected to pay costs if they lose, Ramia might be expected to pay costs if he loses; he does have more money, but that does not make things a foregone conclusion. HT did challenge the Midtown proposal and their challenge was supported. They do have a right to make a challenge, even if it is not popular with some. It's possible that Ramia will lose his suit, which would provide more credence to the Heritage Trust.

[beyeas]

Heritage Trust might only be expected to pay costs if they lose, Ramia might be expected to pay costs if he loses; he does have more money, but that does not make things a foregone conclusion. HT did challenge the Midtown proposal and their challenge was supported. They do have a right to make a challenge, even if it is not popular with some. It's possible that Ramia will lose his suit, which would provide more credence to the Heritage Trust.

I am not a lawyer, so I may be wrong here, but I thought that in terms of the strategy likely to be used in the suit, it was telling that they mentioned the comments about Nova Centre violating view plans. My guess is that they plan to go after very specific comments made by HT and STV that were in fact knowingly incorrect.

[Ziobrop]

I threw together a bit of an explanatory post on BuiltHalifax to complement my progress tumblelog (http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/). I hope it gives a good overview of how concrete Highrises are built.

http://halifaxbloggers.ca/builthalifax/2014/06/the-quick-guide-to-concrete-construction/

[Keith P.]

Heritage Trust might only be expected to pay costs if they lose, Ramia might be expected to pay costs if he loses; he does have more money, but that does not make things a foregone conclusion. HT did challenge the Midtown proposal and their challenge was supported. They do have a right to make a challenge, even if it is not popular with some. It's possible that Ramia will lose his suit, which would provide more credence to the Heritage Trust.

The Midtown case was very different than this. It was not proposed by the Province of Nova Scotia and Halifax Regional Municipality, and funded in part by the Government of Canada. It was being proposed by a divided family of bar owners and a developer who is a dentist. They chose not to appeal what seemed to be a very appealable decision.

Ramia, I think, wants to punish the HT this time, and is willing to spend whatever it takes to do it. He is wealthy enough to hire not only the best lawyers but also the best strategists, tacticians, accountants, researchers, and PR pros to not only build his court case but also to win in the court of public opinion. And if he doesn't win the first time, he can bleed them dry through appeal after appeal.

If I were the Paceys and the other 25 usual anti-development suspects named, I would be very, very concerned.

[JET]

The Midtown case was very different than this. It was not proposed by the Province of Nova Scotia and Halifax Regional Municipality, and funded in part by the Government of Canada. It was being proposed by a divided family of bar owners and a developer who is a dentist. They chose not to appeal what seemed to be a very appealable decision.

Ramia, I think, wants to punish the HT this time, and is willing to spend whatever it takes to do it. He is wealthy enough to hire not only the best lawyers but also the best strategists, tacticians, accountants, researchers, and PR pros to not only build his court case but also to win in the court of public opinion. And if he doesn't win the first time, he can bleed them dry through appeal after appeal.

If I were the Paceys and the other 25 usual anti-development suspects named, I would be very, very concerned.

and even with all that Ramia could still lose his suit, and won't that be interesting

[Colin May]

The Midtown case was very different than this. It was not proposed by the Province of Nova Scotia and Halifax Regional Municipality, and funded in part by the Government of Canada. It was being proposed by a divided family of bar owners and a developer who is a dentist. They chose not to appeal what seemed to be a very appealable decision.

Ramia, I think, wants to punish the HT this time, and is willing to spend whatever it takes to do it. He is wealthy enough to hire not only the best lawyers but also the best strategists, tacticians, accountants, researchers, and PR pros to not only build his court case but also to win in the court of public opinion. And if he doesn't win the first time, he can bleed them dry through appeal after appeal.

If I were the Paceys and the other 25 usual anti-development suspects named, I would be very, very concerned.

The Ramia suit ignores the fact that HRM Council did not formally close Grafton Street until 2 weeks ago on June 10 2014, see here :

" 13.3 Property Matter
A matter pertaining to providing instruction and direction to officers and employees of the Municipality pertaining to the acquisition / sale of land in regard to

13.3.1 Administrative Order SC-077 Respecting Closure of a Portion of Grafton Street and Conveyance to Argyle Developments – Private and Confidential Report
Motion:
That Halifax Regional Council:
1. Approve Administrative Order SC-077 to close that part of Grafton Street that is between Prince and Sackville Streets, Halifax, as contained in Attachment C of the in camera recommendation report dated June 6, 2014;

2. Declare a portion of Grafton Street as per Attachment C of the in camera recommendation report dated June 6, 2014, surplus to municipal requirements and categorize as “Economic Development” as per Administrative Order 50;

3. Authorize the Mayor and Clerk to enter into an Agreement of Purchase and Sale with Argyle Developments Inc. as per the terms and conditions set out in Table 1 of the in camera recommendation report dated June 6, 2014.

It is further recommended that the in camera recommendation report dated June 6, 2014 not be released until the sale has closed. "

His first task is to prove that HT has acted outside its broad mandate. He also has to provide details of the contracts he claims to have with 3rd parties.
A fool and his money are easy parted.

[counterfactual]

The Ramia suit ignores the fact that HRM Council did not formally close Grafton Street until 2 weeks ago on June 10 2014, see here :

" 13.3 Property Matter
A matter pertaining to providing instruction and direction to officers and employees of the Municipality pertaining to the acquisition / sale of land in regard to

13.3.1 Administrative Order SC-077 Respecting Closure of a Portion of Grafton Street and Conveyance to Argyle Developments – Private and Confidential Report
Motion:
That Halifax Regional Council:
1. Approve Administrative Order SC-077 to close that part of Grafton Street that is between Prince and Sackville Streets, Halifax, as contained in Attachment C of the in camera recommendation report dated June 6, 2014;

2. Declare a portion of Grafton Street as per Attachment C of the in camera recommendation report dated June 6, 2014, surplus to municipal requirements and categorize as “Economic Development” as per Administrative Order 50;

3. Authorize the Mayor and Clerk to enter into an Agreement of Purchase and Sale with Argyle Developments Inc. as per the terms and conditions set out in Table 1 of the in camera recommendation report dated June 6, 2014.

It is further recommended that the in camera recommendation report dated June 6, 2014 not be released until the sale has closed. "

His first task is to prove that HT has acted outside its broad mandate. He also has to provide details of the contracts he claims to have with 3rd parties.
A fool and his money are easy parted.

Do you have a link to his lawsuit documents? Not that I'll understand them fully, but I'd like to at least read them and get a better sense of his argument.

[Keith P.]

The Ramia suit ignores the fact that HRM Council did not formally close Grafton Street until 2 weeks ago on June 10 2014

That's because he went through multiple redesigns as a result of the public participation process to move the CC portion above ground which necessitated using what had originally been intended to be a still-open Grafton Street.

I realize the hatred of Ramia is intense among some because (a) he is a Middle-Eastern immigrant (b) he is wealthy (c) he WON the bid to build the hated CC and (d) he doesn't take shit from the usual suspects. None of that changes that he did everything the govts asked him to do and is still being put through the wringer by these obstructionists.

[fenwick16]

I noticed the following story in the Chronicle Herald. As previously reported in the local media, the Heritage Trust has filed a motion with the NS Supreme Court against the HRM's April 29th decision on approving amendments to the Nova Centre design. I read in the following CH article that an appeal can also be filed at the municipal level (as the Heritage Trust did against the 22nd Commerce Square).

What are the chances that the Heritage Trust will wait until the final day (June 30th) and file an appeal to delay the final permits from being issued? (I believe they have to find someone within the Nova Centre vicinity but I am sure they can come up with someone). I have a hunch that they will file an appeal on Monday (on behave of someone in the area) since they filed the NS Supreme Court motion on the final deadline date. (Waiting until the final deadline date allows them to stall the development to the maximum length of time.)


(source: http://www.herald.ns.ca/metro/1218588-nova-centre-developer-forks-over-733400-in-fees-to-halifax?from=slidebox&slidebox=title)
Nova Centre developer forks over $733,400 in fees to Halifax
BRETT BUNDALE CITY HALL REPORTER
Published June 26, 2014 - 5:32pm
Last Updated June 26, 2014 - 7:11pm

.
.
.
Jim Donovan, Halifax’s manager of municipal compliance, said the fees that will be charged for the above-ground work cannot be disclosed until after the permit is issued.

Yet the permit won’t be issued until the appeals period has passed at the end of the business day Monday. Any appeals the city receives would have to go before council, which would have 60 days to make a decision. The city had not received any appeals as of Thursday.

The $500-million development, which includes the new Halifax Convention Centre, a luxury hotel, financial centre, retail, residential and restaurant space, received final site plan approval two weeks ago. The convention centre part of the project is valued at $164 million, cost-shared by all three government levels.


I haven't heard of an appeal to the municipality by the Heritage Trust (just the one with the NS Supreme Court). So can we assume that the remaining permits were issued Monday and we will soon start to see this rise above Argyle Street?

I see some evidence in the picture below by Ziobrop.

(source: http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/ )
http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/image/90361337973

[counterfactual]

I noticed the following story in the Chronicle Herald. As previously reported in the local media, the Heritage Trust has filed a motion with the NS Supreme Court against the HRM's April 29th decision on approving amendments to the Nova Centre design. I read in the following CH article that an appeal can also be filed at the municipal level (as the Heritage Trust did against the 22nd Commerce Square).

What are the chances that the Heritage Trust will wait until the final day (June 30th) and file an appeal to delay the final permits from being issued? (I believe they have to find someone within the Nova Centre vicinity but I am sure they can come up with someone). I have a hunch that they will file an appeal on Monday (on behave of someone in the area) since they filed the NS Supreme Court motion on the final deadline date. (Waiting until the final deadline date allows them to stall the development to the maximum length of time.)


(source: http://www.herald.ns.ca/metro/1218588-nova-centre-developer-forks-over-733400-in-fees-to-halifax?from=slidebox&slidebox=title)
Nova Centre developer forks over $733,400 in fees to Halifax
BRETT BUNDALE CITY HALL REPORTER
Published June 26, 2014 - 5:32pm
Last Updated June 26, 2014 - 7:11pm

.
.
.
Jim Donovan, Halifax’s manager of municipal compliance, said the fees that will be charged for the above-ground work cannot be disclosed until after the permit is issued.

Yet the permit won’t be issued until the appeals period has passed at the end of the business day Monday. Any appeals the city receives would have to go before council, which would have 60 days to make a decision. The city had not received any appeals as of Thursday.

The $500-million development, which includes the new Halifax Convention Centre, a luxury hotel, financial centre, retail, residential and restaurant space, received final site plan approval two weeks ago. The convention centre part of the project is valued at $164 million, cost-shared by all three government levels.


Nice catch, fenwick. Ramia's law suit might be a clever way to pre-empt them; now, if they file an appeal, it looks like they're just "getting back" at Ramia for the law suit. It colors the whole endeavor.

[Colin May]

That's because he went through multiple redesigns as a result of the public participation process to move the CC portion above ground which necessitated using what had originally been intended to be a still-open Grafton Street.

I realize the hatred of Ramia is intense among some because (a) he is a Middle-Eastern immigrant (b) he is wealthy (c) he WON the bid to build the hated CC and (d) he doesn't take shit from the usual suspects. None of that changes that he did everything the govts asked him to do and is still being put through the wringer by these obstructionists.

Any evidence to support your last paragraph assertions ?
I thought he was from a Lebanese family going back to the early 1900's.
I believe he and his supporters said the new design is better than the first design.

[fenwick16]

That's because he went through multiple redesigns as a result of the public participation process to move the CC portion above ground which necessitated using what had originally been intended to be a still-open Grafton Street.

I realize the hatred of Ramia is intense among some because (a) he is a Middle-Eastern immigrant (b) he is wealthy (c) he WON the bid to build the hated CC and (d) he doesn't take shit from the usual suspects. None of that changes that he did everything the govts asked him to do and is still being put through the wringer by these obstructionists.

I agree. I have never met Joe Ramia but I have developed a great respect for the man and what he has had to endure in order to develop the provincially/municipally requested new convention centre. I hope that the Heritage Trust and directors will be successfully sued mainly because I think objectivity and honesty are important. I think that Joe Ramia has a strong case against the Heritage Trust since he has been repeated portrayed in the local media as an evil developer who is taking advantage of municipal and provincial residents.

The Save the View group has the following false statement on their website about the convention centre blocking view-planes from the Citadel - http://www.savetheview.ca/happening.shtml#history

http://imageshack.com/a/img829/7017/adw9.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img856/7065/o89b.jpg



The convention centre design and location did not originate with Rank Inc. (as repeatedly falsely stated by the Save the View group). The origin of the convention centre design has been available on the internet for years and is clearly described by WHW Architects in a study commission by HRM - http://www.tradecentrelimited.com/site-tcl/media/tradecentrelimited/WHW%20Architects_Feasibility_Study_Volume_1_May_2007.pdf. I have posted a few screen-capture images from this document to highlight the origin of the convention centre design.

http://imageshack.com/a/img842/7263/vwemy.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img843/2345/5buti.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img840/3430/wcdo.jpg


Although Rank Inc. provided the basic drawing used for Appendix B (figure 4 of this report - http://www.tradecentrelimited.com/site-tcl/media/tradecentrelimited/Deloitte_Business_Case_PCC_Report_July_2009.pdf ), clearly the provision 7-(15A) in the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Law - http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/documents/DowntownHalifaxLandUseBy-Law.pdf regarding a publically sponsored convention centre originated with the municipality. Changes to the Appendix B drawing in the Land Use By-Law were based on public consultations required by the previous provincial government and outlined in this HRM staff report - http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/140429ca92pres.pdf

[counterfactual]

I agree. I have never met Joe Ramia but I have developed a great respect for the man and what he has had to endure in order to develop the provincially/municipally requested new convention centre. I hope that the Heritage Trust and directors will be successfully sued mainly because I think objectivity and honesty are important. I think that Joe Ramia has a strong case against the Heritage Trust since he has been repeated portrayed in the local media as an evil developer who is taking advantage of municipal and provincial residents. I believe this is a case of libel since many statements can be attributed to Phil Pacey and Heritage Trust in the local media and therefore it is only necessary to prove that the statements are not true (if it were slander than proof must also be provided that the false statements were made) - http://www.ehow.com/how_2238562_use-libel-vs-slander-correctly.html

The Save the View group has the following false statement on their website about the convention centre blocking view-planes from the Citadel - http://www.savetheview.ca/happening.shtml#history

http://imageshack.com/a/img829/7017/adw9.jpg



The convention centre design and location did not originate with Rank Inc. (as repeatedly falsely stated by the Save the View group). The origin of the convention centre design has been available on the internet for years and is clearly described by WHW Architects in a study commission by HRM - http://www.tradecentrelimited.com/site-tcl/media/tradecentrelimited/WHW%20Architects_Feasibility_Study_Volume_1_May_2007.pdf. I have posted a few screen-capture images from this document to highlight the origin of the convention centre design.

http://imageshack.com/a/img842/7263/vwemy.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img843/2345/5buti.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img840/3430/wcdo.jpg


Although Rank Inc. provided the basic drawing used for Appendix B (figure 4 of this report - http://www.tradecentrelimited.com/site-tcl/media/tradecentrelimited/Deloitte_Business_Case_PCC_Report_July_2009.pdf ), clearly the provision 7-(15A) in the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Law - http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/documents/DowntownHalifaxLandUseBy-Law.pdf regarding a publically sponsored convention centre originated with the municipality. Changes to Appendix B of the Land Use By-Law were based on public consultations required by the previous provincial government and outlined in this HRM staff report - http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/140429ca92pres.pdf

Fenwick, you should consider sending this email to Ramia et al. I'm not sure of the basis of his lawsuit-- media reporting on its details have, as usual, been crap-- but this is no doubt helpful.

Again, does anyone have a link to a story with more details on the lawsuit? I've seen it described as Ramia asserting HT is going "beyond its mandate".

That's a much different thing that arguing that Pacey et al are guilty of libel.

[fenwick16]

Fenwick, you should consider sending this email to Ramia et al. I'm not sure of the basis of his lawsuit-- media reporting on its details have, as usual, been crap-- but this is no doubt helpful.

Again, does anyone have a link to a story with more details on the lawsuit? I've seen it described as Ramia asserting HT is going "beyond its mandate".

That's a much different thing that arguing that Pacey et al are guilty of libel.



Maybe the libel lawsuit is just wishful thinking on my part (I removed the reference to a libel suit from my post). However in a Chronicle Herald story the following is written:


(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1218047-taylor-ramia-sues-heritage-trust-for-damages)

The company is also seeking general damages arising from the defendants’ “negligent actions and intentional intimidation of the defendants as it relates to the project.”

Additionally, Argyle is asking the court for punitive damages “arising from the unlawful acts of the defendants by ignoring the mandates and objectives of the Heritage Trust and instead embarking on an intentional campaign to hinder, delay, interfere and obstruct the project.”

Representatives of the heritage organization have maintained that the height of some Nova Centre structures will be violating the heritage views of Halifax Harbour from Citadel Hill.

Ramia has maintained that the Nova Centre complex has been designed to comply with viewplane rules and that people who say otherwise are misrepresenting the facts.

I think that spreading false statements is part of the Heritage Trust's strategy to turn public opinion against the convention centre as shown in the following screen capture from the Save the View website. I previously posted the screen-capture images from the WHW report to show that the convention centre does not violate the view-plane by-laws, and it was not put in the Land Use By-Law at the request of Rank Inc but that the convention centre and hotel/office complex idea originated with a WHW study conducted for the municipality.

(source: - http://www.savetheview.ca/)
http://imageshack.com/a/img856/7065/o89b.jpg

[Spire]

Any evidence to support your last paragraph assertions ?
I thought he was from a Lebanese family going back to the early 1900's.

Joe Ramia was born in Lebanon and moved to Canada with his family when he was nine.

http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/v23n6_developer.pdf

[Udon'tknow]

Hello Haligonians,

I normally post in the Regina thread, but I was recently in your fine city and snapped a pic of this development so thought I would post it. Looks like an exciting project, will be great to see it rise from the ground.

I really enjoyed my time in Halifax, it's a great city full of friendly people! Cheers!

http://i.imgur.com/7lXgI6K.jpg

[Keith P.]

Hello Haligonians,

I normally post in the Regina thread, but I was recently in your fine city and snapped a pic of this development so thought I would post it. Looks like an exciting project, will be great to see it rise from the ground.

I really enjoyed my time in Halifax, it's a great city full of friendly people! Cheers!



If any of the usual suspects heard you saying anything nice about the CC project, they wouldn't be so friendly!

[fenwick16]

There is a bit of construction information in the following story - http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/nova-scotia-heritage-trust-in-conflict-with-developers-over-nova-centre-1.1896799. Apparently the next step in the construction is the erection of steel (2,000 tons according to a previous story in the allnovascotia.com). I remember reading that it was scheduled to begin the end of May (so it is a bit behind). I wonder if the steel members have been already been fabricated at Cherubini Metal Works?

[Colin May]

Joe Ramia was born in Lebanon and moved to Canada with his family when he was nine.

http://www.atlanticbusinessmagazine.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/v23n6_developer.pdf

My request for evidence did not relate to his roots but to the part which asserted ' hatred because of...... '
The poster has provided no evidence to support the assertion of 'hatred ' of Mr Ramia.

[Ziobrop]

Cherbuni is doing the work, and when I drove by earlier there were some girders in the yard. I was told a large crawler crane would be installing them, so when that shows up, installation is close.

[fenwick16]

Cherbuni is doing the work, and when I drove by earlier there were some girders in the yard. I was told a large crawler crane would be installing them, so when that shows up, installation is close.

Thanks for the information. The steel construction will likely proceed quickly. It should be exciting to watch.

[Keith P.]

My request for evidence did not relate to his roots but to the part which asserted ' hatred because of...... '
The poster has provided no evidence to support the assertion of 'hatred ' of Mr Ramia.

Read anything by your boy, Bousquet, on the subject.

[Jonovision]

From yesterday

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10453381_10100416164425899_6946929272571634870_n.jpg?oh=4578f7065bb26b4a02ad2916f9fe9122&oe=54493994&__gda__=1414801538_021b531f39f7da7c5758d50259031844

[Jonovision]

Found this alternative design. The base looks beautiful. A good use of wood or metal is. But that massive slab of a building would have not been good in my opinion.

https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/55016387/hd/f7fb290a232ab0bea375fbc1fbc89795.jpg

https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/55016391/hd/b4d612c46b00b72ae7385e5b9d217db6.jpg

https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/55016389/hd/c481448f4eece3b05dd72055c752b54e.jpg

https://www.behance.net/gallery/7176035/NOVA-CONVENTION-CENTRE

[Drybrain]

DAAAAMMMNN.

I like that a LOT better. The arrangements of windows along Grafton is awesome, and I love the wood. (I love wood in modern architecture generally—adds an organic, human touch to the stark lines and angles.) Far superior, and I like the existing design.

[connect2source]

WOW this one is far more current to today's architectural trends. LOVE the wood, it's speaks 'eco' and leed-gold. Overall looks very Scandinavian and far more progressive and less hodgepodge.

[Drybrain]

Well, let's just be glad this isn't what we're getting.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3781/novacentremarch212012.png

[terrynorthend]

https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/55016389/hd/c481448f4eece3b05dd72055c752b54e.jpg

https://www.behance.net/gallery/7176035/NOVA-CONVENTION-CENTRE

I'm particularly impressed by the forest they were planning to plant on Citadel Hill! :haha:

[Keith P.]

Well, let's just be glad this isn't what we're getting.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3781/novacentremarch212012.png

Oh, the CBC design. They persisted in using that image on every website story up to a few months ago. I think their web editor was a member of the Heritage Trust.

[Keith P.]

WOW this one is far more current to today's architectural trends. LOVE the wood, it's speaks 'eco' and leed-gold. Overall looks very Scandinavian and far more progressive and less hodgepodge.

I don't like the wood and the overall design on the Argyle St elevation. I think it works better on the Grafton arcade and on the hillside facings.

[counterfactual]

Oh, the CBC design. They persisted in using that image on every website story up to a few months ago. I think their web editor was a member of the Heritage Trust.

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

[counterfactual]

DAAAAMMMNN.

I like that a LOT better. The arrangements of windows along Grafton is awesome, and I love the wood. (I love wood in modern architecture generally—adds an organic, human touch to the stark lines and angles.) Far superior, and I like the existing design.

I *completely* agree. That is AWESOME.

WTF happened to this design? Was it ever pitched? Where did it come from?

I see that it was done for Rank. So, it means, Ramia et al rejected it inhouse?

This would have been an iconic building / development, like the Central Library, had this design been chosen.

Some daring architecture there. Love the wood, love the covered street.

The Nova Centre we're getting is pretty boring, TBH.

[counterfactual]

I'm particularly impressed by the forest they were planning to plant on Citadel Hill! :haha:

:haha::tantrum:

[worldlyhaligonian]

Is that a river north of the citadel?

I like that design, but there would be screams of big wall!!!

I agree with Keith, the CBC bias was totally apparent when they kept using that 80's eaton centre design almost until the final stages of approval.

[Phalanx]

Not a fan of the big slab along Argyle - not to say that it couldn't be as big, but a few design elements to break it up a bit would have been nice.

That design just makes me miss the potential for what the covered street could/should have been. Moving the convention space above ground really compromised that part of the plan.

[counterfactual]

Is that a river north of the citadel?

I like that design, but there would be screams of big wall!!!

I agree with Keith, the CBC bias was totally apparent when they kept using that 80's eaton centre design almost until the final stages of approval.

Yes, I find local CBC very anti-development; they're always the first to call Phil Pacey, STV, or some critical HRM councilor to criticize some new development.

[counterfactual]

Not a fan of the big slab along Argyle - not to say that it couldn't be as big, but a few design elements to break it up a bit would have been nice.

That design just makes me miss the potential for what the covered street could/should have been. Moving the convention space above ground really compromised that part of the plan.

Ramia et al said that public feedback overwhelmingly called for the convention space to be above ground. I don't get that. It just doesn't seem like something people would be passionate about...

[portapetey]

Ramia et al said that public feedback overwhelmingly called for the convention space to be above ground. I don't get that. It just doesn't seem like something people would be passionate about...

I believe that participants said they wanted visitors to our city to be able to look out from their convention space and see our city, have it showcased, instead of being swaddled in a bunker and never seeing daylight. I can understand this perspective.

[counterfactual]

I believe that participants said they wanted visitors to our city to be able to look out from their convention space and see our city, have it showcased, instead of being swaddled in a bunker and never seeing daylight. I can understand this perspective.

I find we spend too much of our time trying to make our city presentable to visitors and not enough time building a great city for *us* to enjoy.

Seriously, the main talking point for STV is that Citadel Hill is such a "major" tourist attraction; which means we must perpetually repress economic development in the downtown core so Clark W. Griswald and family can "see" from their ramparts and truly enjoy their National Lampoon's Nova Scotia Vacation.

As for Nova-- seriously, who gives a crap about "the view" from the convention centre for some business suits passing through town for 24hrs?

Let's build development that will enhance public spaces for *us*.

(FWIW: Clark W. Griswald and Family would appreciate the other Nova Centre design better-- nice public spaces and a covered street would be a great tourist attraction)

[GUB]

Hilarious re Grizwald
I totally agree though...
Let's build the city for its residents first, then we can worry about selling trinkets to tourists

[Keith P.]

Ramia et al said that public feedback overwhelmingly called for the convention space to be above ground. I don't get that. It just doesn't seem like something people would be passionate about...

Don't you remember? That was part of the poo the HT/STV bunch flung at the project during the public sessions by saying that the CC portion was being built in the basement and that taxpayers were paying for subpar space with no windows. The outcry resulted in the redesign moving the CC above grade and changing what would have been the Grafton promenade.

Sadly, people's memories are short and the dirty tricks of the STV group are already being overlooked.

[Ziobrop]

I find we spend too much of our time trying to make our city presentable to visitors and not enough time building a great city for *us* to enjoy.


My Complaint about Ottawa - There is what the city wants to do, and then there is what the feds impose to build a Capital for all Canadians. Ugh.

Windowed convention space is generally bad anyway - the space needs to be controlled - you just cant expose it to the outside for all kinds of reasons. that said, i think its valid that people should be able to step out, and see daylight, without having to ride an elevator up.

I had a Friend who was married and had her reception in the Definbunker Outside of Ottawa. nice venue, but the elevator and tunnel to ground was noticeable, and translated to the convention space, i feel would affect peoples opinions of how the space works.

[Phalanx]

I believe that participants said they wanted visitors to our city to be able to look out from their convention space and see our city, have it showcased, instead of being swaddled in a bunker and never seeing daylight. I can understand this perspective.

The purpose of a convention space isn't to have people standing around admiring the view. They're supposed to be paying attention to what's going on inside the building, not outside. If they want to enjoy the view, they can get it from the hotel tower that's going to be attached to the convention centre.

Besides, even above ground it's only a couple of stories above ground, so all they're going to see is a mid-level view of the buildings across the street...

Was a very bad decision, but given the noise being generated by the anti-convention centre crowd, I suspect they felt they had to make the change to deprive them of ammunition.

[counterfactual]

Don't you remember? That was part of the poo the HT/STV bunch flung at the project during the public sessions by saying that the CC portion was being built in the basement and that taxpayers were paying for subpar space with no windows. The outcry resulted in the redesign moving the CC above grade and changing what would have been the Grafton promenade.

Sadly, people's memories are short and the dirty tricks of the STV group are already being overlooked.

A great lesson as to why we shouldn't heed to *any* design suggestion these clowns make, because they'll still litigate, in the end, to try to kill the whole thing.

[counterfactual]

hilarious re grizwald
i totally agree though...
Let's build the city for its residents first, then we can worry about selling trinkets to tourists

:d

[counterfactual]

My Complaint about Ottawa - There is what the city wants to do, and then there is what the feds impose to build a Capital for all Canadians. Ugh.

Windowed convention space is generally bad anyway - the space needs to be controlled - you just cant expose it to the outside for all kinds of reasons. that said, i think its valid that people should be able to step out, and see daylight, without having to ride an elevator up.

I had a Friend who was married and had her reception in the Definbunker Outside of Ottawa. nice venue, but the elevator and tunnel to ground was noticeable, and translated to the convention space, i feel would affect peoples opinions of how the space works.

I hear you, though I still think this is, again, attempting to build a design more for visitors than the city.

On the other hand, I suppose we want the thing to be financially successful, so a better CC space may be justified on this count.

The result, however, is a more mediocre design, when we could have been daring and ended up with a nationally iconic building.

We don't like risks in Halifax.

[musicman]

Now every convention that comes in will have to pay 10 bucks a foot to cover over the windows so you can use projectors ect.... Dumb dumb dumb idea to move it above ground... But then again it never ceases to amaze me that production details are always the last thing that gets worked out as if it is an afterthought. Hard to do a convention without AV and nobody gives it a thought. Again dumb, dumb, and dumb...

[fenwick16]

Only one wall of the ballroom is exposed to sunlight, which can be easily covered with blinds. Although in the renderings the ballroom appears to be surrounded by windows, the floor plans indicate that the ballroom is actually surrounded mostly by corridors and reception areas. The exhibition area appears to have few or no windows - (3 pages in one document) http://www.halifaxconventioncentre.com/images/uploads/HCC_Floor-Plans.pdf.

I think that moving the ballroom above ground was the right decision; I have been to quite a few convention centres and I can't think of one that is completely devoid of windows.

I am sure people will be overwhelmingly impressed when the new convention centre opens. I assume it will be made available for viewing by the public when it first opens, and there will be many events such as food fairs and tech shows that will be open to the general public.

[curnhalio]

I am sure people will be overwhelmingly impressed when the new convention centre opens. I assume it will be made available for viewing by the public when it first opens, and there will be many events such as food fairs and tech shows that will be open to the general public.

I've wondered about that, whether events that are currently held at the Forum Civic Centre or Exhibition Park will be pressured to be staged at the new CC in order to give it the appearance of being used more than it may otherwise be. Food fairs made me think of the Food expo that gets held at Ex Park every other year or so. The new CC could easily stage it, and may even get incentives to do so. Would a place like Exhibition Park eventually become obsolete? (if it isn't already)

[Ziobrop]

omg.. i hope exhibition park gets disused. its an awful space, and its filthy.

[fenwick16]

I've wondered about that, whether events that are currently held at the Forum Civic Centre or Exhibition Park will be pressured to be staged at the new CC in order to give it the appearance of being used more than it may otherwise be. Food fairs made me think of the Food expo that gets held at Ex Park every other year or so. The new CC could easily stage it, and may even get incentives to do so. Would a place like Exhibition Park eventually become obsolete? (if it isn't already)

I don't think that it will be necessary to give the appearance that the Nova Centre is busier than it will otherwise be (I think it will be just as successful as the new Ottawa Convention Centre). It is a facility that will be used for many purposes, such as food fairs, and since it is in a central location I think it will attract more people than the Ex Park would.

I think that the idea that the convention centre will not have events for the general public is just a myth propagated by the Save the View group. There are many events such as Food fairs held at Toronto area convention centres.

I am really peeved at the the Save the View/Heritage Trust members and all of their negative propaganda. The idea that the Nova Centre will not be used by Nova Scotia residents is just part of their propaganda, in my opinion.

[counterfactual]

I am really peeved at the the Save the View/Heritage Trust members and all of their negative propaganda. The idea that the Nova Centre will not be used by Nova Scotia residents is just part of their propaganda, in my opinion.

Well, *they* won't use it.

But they're always mistaking their own elitist, anti-economy, anti-people, anti-growth, anti-great-Halifax beliefs for those of average Haligonians.

[musicman]

x-park is crazy busy. They have a hard time to keep up with all the events and things going on out there. Alot of the shows that happen out there can't be done or won't be done at the new convention center because of the nature of the events and the sheer size. Take saltscapes for example it takes every single square foot of that venue to stage that event and it could be bigger still if there was more room... x-park will not become obsolete, and yes it is dirty as hell but it is nothing more than a glorified barn.

[ns_kid]

Now every convention that comes in will have to pay 10 bucks a foot to cover over the windows so you can use projectors ect.... Dumb dumb dumb idea to move it above ground... But then again it never ceases to amaze me that production details are always the last thing that gets worked out as if it is an afterthought. Hard to do a convention without AV and nobody gives it a thought. Again dumb, dumb, and dumb...

I recently attended an event at the Edmonton's Shaw Conference Centre, whose main exhibition hall has a beautiful floor-to-ceiling view of the North Saskatchewan River. It also has heavy powered drapes to cover the windows when darkness is needed. When it wasn't, the drapes were opened and - voila -- the view returned. And believe me, many delegates commented on how lovely the natural light was when enjoying their meals or engaged in low-tech activities. In truth, even with the drapes open, today's modern video screens are effective even in a bright room. I can also say, having been there many times, that one of the biggest deficiencies the old Ottawa Congress Centre was its lack of natural light. Attending a conference there was like spending the day in a dark cave. So moving the ballroom upstairs was the right decision, IMO.

(And, yes, we can acknowledge that Argyle Street is not the North Saskatchewan River. But the debate over why the HCC is not on the waterfront is long dead.)

[bluenoser]

I have to agree. IMO, the above ground space with a view makes it way more attractive and unique (and even classy), not just for conventions but any large upscale events such as fundraiser dinners (or smaller events using partitions). With today's blind technology, the light can easily be dealt with when necessary. And of course, there is still the primary convention space underground (just not ~4-6 stories underground).

And while the location has its pros and cons, I think the ballroom will still have an interesting view from that height.

[pblaauw]

And while the location has its pros and cons, I think the ballroom will still have an interesting view from that height.

If I was looking for a view while I was at a convention, I'd rather be in Dartmouth. I don't want to see the bar district, or a coastline inhibited by a railroad. (Though, I really enjoy seeing those 40-car-plus trains that stretch from the Woodside ferry terminal to....the Dartmouth water treatment facility. :yuck: :shitstorm:

[Jonovision]

The concrete pump is now installed. They were testing it this morning when I took this pic.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10487287_10100423874335179_7923221507981106136_n.jpg

[Ziobrop]

The concrete pump is now installed. They were testing it this morning when I took this pic.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10487287_10100423874335179_7923221507981106136_n.jpg

Sadly I missed it. I was at home having a drain replaced..
Next week however... Stay tuned for a subtle change in my posts. :)

[Ziobrop]

Today's update is small.. :)
from http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/
http://38.media.tumblr.com/3748d82e10b6583e57bc5b344d2cca85/tumblr_n9frl2rTZX1sjmgsso1_500.jpg

[fenwick16]

Today's update is small.. :)
from http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/
http://38.media.tumblr.com/3748d82e10b6583e57bc5b344d2cca85/tumblr_n9frl2rTZX1sjmgsso1_500.jpg

I noticed that the pictures today appeared to be from within the Nova Centre, or is it from street-level?

[Ziobrop]

nope, its from within. that shot is looking towards argyle, from the convention level at the main stairs.

The developers liked my progress shots, and have given me access to continue. I Had the Safety Briefing today, so I only quickly snapped the 2 shots, but expect more like this in the future.

[Dmajackson]

^Great to hear. Nova Centre is hands down the most exciting construction project going on right now. It'll be great having the inside scoop.

[fenwick16]

nope, its from within. that shot is looking towards argyle, from the convention level at the main stairs.

The developers liked my progress shots, and have given me access to continue. I Had the Safety Briefing today, so I only quickly snapped the 2 shots, but expect more like this in the future.

Fantastic news. I am looking forward to seeing more interior construction shots :tup::tup:. I like the picture of the bird within the construction area - it makes an interesting shot.

I have a question: The Exhibit level is made up of Exhibit Hall A (about 30 foot floor to ceiling height upon completion) and Exhibit Hall B (plus a reception area) with approximately 15 foot high ceilings. Does the Exhibit Hall B area appear to have sufficiently high ceilings (i.e. does it appear cramped or spacious?).

The reason that I am interested in the exhibit area is that it appears as though they could set it up for ~ 70,000 square feet of trade show space if the meeting rooms can be reconfigured as exhibit space. They could have some fairly large trade shows with that much space.

[Ziobrop]

Fantastic news. I am looking forward to seeing more interior construction shots :tup::tup:. I like the picture of the bird within the construction area - it makes an interesting shot.

I have a question: The Exhibit level is made up of Exhibit Hall A (about 30 foot floor to ceiling height upon completion) and Exhibit Hall B (plus a reception area) with approximately 15 foot high ceilings. Does the Exhibit Hall B area appear to have sufficiently high ceilings (i.e. does it appear cramped or spacious?).

The reason that I am interested in the exhibit area is that it appears as though they could set it up for ~ 70,000 square feet of trade show space if the meeting rooms can be reconfigured as exhibit space. They could have some fairly large trade shows with that much space.

The space is still occupied by the flying forms, and is poorly lit, by temporary lighting. I don't think it feels cramped - head height is not an issue.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/0d1e700503a0fbd5ee0085f9c0d4eda0/tumblr_n9heowXI2c1sjmgsso1_500.jpg

[JET]

nope, its from within. that shot is looking towards argyle, from the convention level at the main stairs.

The developers liked my progress shots, and have given me access to continue. I Had the Safety Briefing today, so I only quickly snapped the 2 shots, but expect more like this in the future.

KUDOS :tup:

[Ziobrop]

having hit street level now, I must declare the hole filled.
as such, the blog is no longer called FillingTheHole, and can now be found at http://NovaCenter.BuiltHalifax.ca

the old url still works. filling the hole was really a bad choice of name. Quite frankly, this has growen way more then I ever thought it would. - Pageviews yesterday were pretty close to my much more established http://blog.halifaxshippingnews.ca/

originally i thought it would just be fourm people paying attention. Guess not.
thanks guys.

[portapetey]

having hit street level now, I must declare the hole filled.
as such, the blog is no longer called FillingTheHole, and can now be found at http://NovaCenter.BuiltHalifax.ca

the old url still works. filling the hole was really a bad choice of name. Quite frankly, this has growen way more then I ever thought it would. - Pageviews yesterday were pretty close to my much more established http://blog.halifaxshippingnews.ca/

originally i thought it would just be fourm people paying attention. Guess not.
thanks guys.

I was always afraid to click it under the old name. Wasn't sure if it would be NSFW! :haha:

Thanks for the great updates.

[Dmajackson]

originally i thought it would just be fourm people paying attention. Guess not.
thanks guys.

I find its the same thing with my blog. SSP seems to provide a nice amount of traffic but wow that first day I unveiled it traffic increased big time.

I can't even imagine how much traffic your blogs must get! In terms of attention grabbing nothing gets close to Nova Centre.

[pblaauw]

having hit street level now, I must declare the hole filled.
as such, the blog is no longer called FillingTheHole, and can now be found at http://NovaCenter.BuiltHalifax.ca

the old url still works. filling the hole was really a bad choice of name. Quite frankly, this has growen way more then I ever thought it would. - Pageviews yesterday were pretty close to my much more established http://blog.halifaxshippingnews.ca/

originally i thought it would just be fourm people paying attention. Guess not.
thanks guys.

I think Filling The Hole was a great name. I used to love going by there and seeing the pickup trucks at the bottom. That was the only way I could get a sense of the size of the hole, thanks to a really "lazy" left eye. :haha:

[Ziobrop]

placing arm was used for the first time today. it was connected to a pump truck though to clear the fence.

Now from http://novacenter.builthalifax.ca/

http://33.media.tumblr.com/7cbbbc3c452a50f31af12ab083d6ae0a/tumblr_n9uqps1aoi1sjmgsso1_1280.jpg

Also got this shot today:
http://33.media.tumblr.com/07e151a04478e0b7da00ffca2595e0cd/tumblr_n9uqp8FZqJ1sjmgsso1_1280.jpg

[mcmcclassic]

I read an article tonight that was quite a similar debate to our convention center. The convention center in Christchurch (New Zealand) got destroyed by the big earthquake in 2011 and was just approved to be rebuilt. Total value of the project is in the $500 million range and taxpayers there are on the hook for $284 million of that.

What's also interesting is that Christchurch is the largest city in the area (at ~400,000 people) and is the largest city on the South Island (Wellington is 8+hrs away). Food for thought for the STV crowd...

Article link: http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/10361223/Convention-centre-will-cost-500-million

Rendering: http://i.imgur.com/1jpA0BKl.jpg

IMO: Their CC looks a lot worse than ours and will be just as costly.

[beyeas]

Rendering: http://i.imgur.com/1jpA0BKl.jpg



Reminds me a lot of the congress hall in Milan. Similar style.
http://www.micomilano.it/Home_en.html

[counterfactual]

I read an article tonight that was quite a similar debate to our convention center. The convention center in Christchurch (New Zealand) got destroyed by the big earthquake in 2011 and was just approved to be rebuilt. Total value of the project is in the $500 million range and taxpayers there are on the hook for $284 million of that.

What's also interesting is that Christchurch is the largest city in the area (at ~400,000 people) and is the largest city on the South Island (Wellington is 8+hrs away). Food for thought for the STV crowd...

Article link: http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/10361223/Convention-centre-will-cost-500-million

Rendering: http://i.imgur.com/1jpA0BKl.jpg

IMO: Their CC looks a lot worse than ours and will be just as costly.

Well, I actually don't mind the different architecture proposed for this. It looks like something Gehry might propose. It's risky. Different. Not a boring ugly box.

Also, I like that there is ample allowance for people-- a large multi-faceted public square in front.

LOL @ the gondola though...

[Hali87]

Kind of reminds me of Ottawa's CC. Post-earthquake Christchurch could probably teach us a thing or two about creative use of vacant and underused lots.

[Ziobrop]

The herald reported the trust dropped their suit on this as well..
Interesting..

[q12]

The herald reported the trust dropped their suit on this as well..
Interesting..

HT had no business interfering with the Nova Centre, now they can... eat it.

ZcJjMnHoIBI?t=50s

[ILoveHalifax]

I hope Joe continues with his suit against the ht.

[halifaxboyns]

The herald reported the trust dropped their suit on this as well..
Interesting..
The article on it is now posted here (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1229230-heritage-trust-withdraws-nova-centre-court-challenge).

[fenwick16]

I would like to think that they came to their senses and realized that they can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. In this case, I think they can save more heritage buildings with the cooperation of developers and the general public than by antagonizing almost everyone.

[portapetey]

Interesting. The article has been revised since it was originally published. The earlier version referenced the Trust's news release about its Statement of Purpose, and included a line something to the effect of Ramia being "satisfied with the release of the Statement of Purpose to this newspaper earlier this week". (That's not a direct quote - I forget the exact wording.)

I wrote a comment that that sentence spoke volumes about the Trust being way out of its jurisdiction as well as out of its depth. My comment was not published, and that sentence was removed from the article (along with other changes.)

[counterfactual]

I would like to think that they came to their senses and realized that they can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. In this case, I think they can save more heritage buildings with the cooperation of developers and the general public than by antagonizing almost everyone.

I'm not sure. The only thing that seems to have changed, is I started calling them the "Nova Scotia Anti-Development Trust" on SSP.

Perhaps that provoked a long needed change of heart? :D

I'm joking, of course. I don't think they're giving up. I think something else is going on. The Anti-Development Trust is very connected, with plenty lawyers, politicians, and, HRM staffers in their corner. Maybe they realize the futility of these court battles and, instead, are lobbying politically? Aiming to get the Nova Scotia Government to make some heritage designations, change some of the relative rules?

The story itself reads as if they "settled" all the relating lawsuits between Ramia and the rest. I would be surprised that they would have withdrawn simply because Ramia had himself sued them...

[Colin May]

The Thiel challenge remains in effect and HT steps aside to let the big boys have at it ?

[portapetey]

Interesting. The article has been revised since it was originally published. The earlier version referenced the Trust's news release about its Statement of Purpose, and included a line something to the effect of Ramia being "satisfied with the release of the Statement of Purpose to this newspaper earlier this week". (That's not a direct quote - I forget the exact wording.)

I wrote a comment that that sentence spoke volumes about the Trust being way out of its jurisdiction as well as out of its depth. My comment was not published, and that sentence was removed from the article (along with other changes.)

OK, now my comment has been published, but it is quoting a sentence that has been removed from the article :shrug:

It must have hinted at what the settlement involved, which apparently they aren't supposed to be talking about.

Anyway, it clearly hasn't made everyone happy. Some commenters actually seem to be disappointed with this development.

[Keith P.]

Meanwhile the absolutely out-of-his-mind-when-it-comes-to-Nova-Center Tim Bousquet in a comment on the suits being dropped described the HT this morning as being made up mostly of "pensioners on a fixed income" and implied that the deep pockets of the big bad developers forced these poor impoverished pensioners to give this up.

Well, Tim, maybe they are pensioners on a fixed income and maybe they ought to not oppose every new development proposal for the downtown if that's the case. Or alternatively, maybe you are putting some very strained spin on this frivolous action.

[halifaxboyns]

OK, now my comment has been published, but it is quoting a sentence that has been removed from the article :shrug:

It must have hinted at what the settlement involved, which apparently they aren't supposed to be talking about.

Anyway, it clearly hasn't made everyone happy. Some commenters actually seem to be disappointed with this development.
Well people aren't happy in NS unless they can complain about something! :) People are still unwilling to accept that in some circumstances; economic development requires various levels of government to contribute. The main thing is that one of the two law suits is gone - now hopefully the other one will go away.

The Thiel challenge remains in effect and HT steps aside to let the big boys have at it ?
I really don't know what they expect to achieve by their law suit? Regardless of the selection process; government made a decision. Plus it was made a site of provincial interest; through Provincial powers...thus exempting it from Municipal Planning Approval to get underway. In all my years as a planner; I've never seen (in any Province where such powers are used) that power and a decision overturned by a court.

[halifaxboyns]

Meanwhile the absolutely out-of-his-mind-when-it-comes-to-Nova-Center Tim Bousquet in a comment on the suits being dropped described the HT this morning as being made up mostly of "pensioners on a fixed income" and implied that the deep pockets of the big bad developers forced these poor impoverished pensioners to give this up.

Well, Tim, maybe they are pensioners on a fixed income and maybe they ought to not oppose every new development proposal for the downtown if that's the case. Or alternatively, maybe you are putting some very strained spin on this frivolous action.

Is he still writing for the coast? Can you provide a link - I need a good laugh for today.

[Keith P.]

Is he still writing for the coast? Can you provide a link - I need a good laugh for today.

No he is no longer with the Coast, having either quit or been let go, and he is now trying his luck with a subscription news service, the Halifax Examiner. Most stuff is behind a paywall. But he does do a free daily roundup and that's where this was found.

http://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/featured/slapped-silly-morning-file-thursday-august-14-2014/

[halifaxboyns]

No he is no longer with the Coast, having either quit or been let go, and he is now trying his luck with a subscription news service, the Halifax Examiner. Most stuff is behind a paywall. But he does do a free daily roundup and that's where this was found.

http://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/featured/slapped-silly-morning-file-thursday-august-14-2014/

I should have updated my post to say I found it; but that's okay. :) Still...for someone who is doing journalism - his bias is showing.

[ns_kid]

For someone who is doing journalism - his bias is showing.

I've heard Mr. Bousquet speak on the subject and, in fact, he explicitly rejects the notion that good journalism should be objective. In fact he suggests that objectivity in journalism is impossible and, in truth, he may be right. Impartiality is in the eye of the beholder which, I suppose makes objectivity quite subjective.

Say what you will about Tim, you cannot accuse him of any false objectivity. But he must feel a bit lonely as the Nova Centre naysayers seem to be deserting him. :wah:

[Nilan8888]

Just because 100% objectivity may be impossible doesn't mean it's not a goal to strive for.

[halifaxboyns]

Say what you will about Tim, you cannot accuse him of any false objectivity. But he must feel a bit lonely as the Nova Centre naysayers seem to be deserting him. :wah:

I think that's the most telling comment that you made about the whole situation and it's the most telling for the heritage trust folk. Whatever they do; they keep burning bridges with various people and eventually - it's going to come back and cause problems.

[counterfactual]

I've heard Mr. Bousquet speak on the subject and, in fact, he explicitly rejects the notion that good journalism should be objective. In fact he suggests that objectivity in journalism is impossible and, in truth, he may be right. Impartiality is in the eye of the beholder which, I suppose makes objectivity quite subjective.

Say what you will about Tim, you cannot accuse him of any false objectivity. But he must feel a bit lonely as the Nova Centre naysayers seem to be deserting him. :wah:

Bousquet is wrong. I've heard his/this justification before for biased journalism and it's a complete non-sequitor. Just because perfect objectivity is not possible, it does not logically follow that partisan journalism is justified.

That's like saying because being a perfect parent is impossible, we shouldn't bother trying to be a good parent.

Perfection *isn't* possible when it comes to objectivity in journalism; but that doesn't mean they should still strive to be as objective as possible.

[ns_kid]

I don't know that I'd say Bousquet is entirely wrong. I was a working journalist myself for a dozen years or so and always strived for objectivity. But if I am being completely honest I could not say my own values didn't make their way into my stories, however unconsciously. The very stories I chose to cover, the sources I consulted, the way I framed the story would all reflect my worldview to some extent.

There is also a view, which I get, that trying to be agressively objective in a story can lead to perverse results. Examples of this include coverage of the evolution debate in the US or coverage of climate change, where disproporitonate value is attached to arguably fringe views. A similar argument has been made from time to time in this forum: why is the media giving equal time to a few anti-development crackpots? It's this notion that to be objective a story has to give opposing views equal weight.

All that to say, the concept of objectivity is not as black-and-white as it may first appear.

Which doesn't change the original point, that Mr. Bousquet is not, and would not himself claim to be, objective on the matter of development or most other subjects.