[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Haliguy]

PREMIER'S OFFICE--Expressions of Interest Sought for Development Opportunity
------------------------------------------------------------
The province and Halifax Regional Municipality are seeking expressions of interest from qualified individuals or groups for a development opportunity that includes a new World Trade and Convention Centre as a core component.

There are a number of conditions that must be met by interested parties. Among them, the building must be located in downtown Halifax and it must have a minimum of 150,000 square feet of usable space. It must be able to host multiple large conventions and several smaller events simultaneously.

"This could be one of the most exciting things to happen to downtown Halifax in quite some time," said Premier Rodney MacDonald. "The existing World Trade Centre has been an economic engine for the city and the province, but we are outgrowing the existing facility.

"As we continue to develop the downtown, it's clear more convention space needs to be part of the plan."

Since 1984, Trade Centre Limited has contributed an estimated $2.2 billion in direct expenditures, and $1.6 billion in incremental expenditures. It has also resulted in almost $100 million in tax revenues and employs 98 full-time and 300 part-time staff.

"HRM has the best of everything convention planners are looking for, from excellent dining and a vibrant nightlife, to rugged ocean vistas and peaceful getaways," said Mayor Peter Kelly. "It's no surprise that we are becoming more sought after as a convention destination of choice; a new facility could give us the capacity to welcome to HRM not only more, but even bigger conventions from around the world -- and we definitely want that business."

All expressions of interest will be evaluated and ranked against a pre-determined list of criteria. A committee will then produce a short list of respondents who may be invited to make a brief presentation. The next step would be to issue a request for proposals from short-listed candidates. The request would require more detailed information.

The expression of interest document will be available within two weeks from the Halifax Regional Municipality procurement office, 3rd Floor, Duke Tower, Scotia Square, 5251 Duke St., Halifax.

The World Trade and Convention Centre is owned by the province and operated by Trade Centre Limited.

Trade Centre Limited is a Crown corporation responsible for six business units, including the World Trade and Convention Centre.

Halifax Regional Municipality makes an annual financial contribution to the operation of the trade and convention centre.

[Spitfire75]

Thats good news. Can't wait until they release more info, like where they're planning on building it, height, ect

[Keith P.]

Thats good news. Can't wait until they release more info, like where they're planning on building it, height, ect

I suspect they don't have a clue on any of those things. Hence the wide-open criteria in the press release.

[Jonovision]

Great idea, but it does sound all rather vague. There can't be that many sites downtown that could accommodate such a building. The only thing that comes to my mind is down beside the already new convention centre, cunard centre, or wheres the waterfront wearhouse is located.

[phrenic]

The seaport area would likely be the most practical site for this, aside from the Herald building. My bet would be on the Herald site.

[someone123]

There's already something called the Cunard Centre in the Seaport area. There are multiple locations where a full-sized convention centre would fit.

As mentioned, the Waterfront Warehouse site would also be a good spot. There's a site South of Bishop's Landing before Electropolis but I think that one's a bit too small.

As I've said before, I don't think the Herald site makes sense for a new convention centre because its footprint is so small, and at any rate the owners are going ahead with other plans to be released within a couple of weeks. Midrise mixed-used buildings are perfect for that area to go along with what already exists along Argyle and Grafton.

[sdm]

The seaport area would likely be the most practical site for this, aside from the Herald building. My bet would be on the Herald site.

Problem is the herald lands are privately owned and the developer in not likely to switch to a convention centre

[Keith P.]

There's a site South of Bishop's Landing before Electropolis but I think that one's a bit too small.


I wonder what would be needed to convert the old power station building (the former Electropolis) to a convention center?

[Haliguy]

I wonder what would be needed to convert the old power station building (the former Electropolis) to a convention center?

I'm not sure it is big enough for what their looking for. Also I believe Emera/ NS power has plans for that property.

[Keith P.]

Now that I've been thinking about this idea, one underutilized prime spot is where the Trade Mart now sits. It would be no loss if that were made into the new convention center site, and there may be some additional adjacent land available when the Cogswell Interchange goes away.

[sdm]

I'm not sure it is big enough for what their looking for. Also I believe Emera/ NS power has plans for that property.

Emera are working on their lands accross the street, not the station lands itself.

The cost to deal with the station is extreme due to environmental issues. The rumored cost for the land and remediation would be somewheres north of 15 million.Very expensive a square foot before construction.

Lets get realistic. This will be turned around, and we will expand the current trade centre into the metro centre and then build a new stadium.

[someone123]

Yeah, I've always assumed that the old power station building would cost a fortune to convert. A more cost-effective approach there would be to add on some new buildings in front or along the waterfront side.

I've heard that Emera wants a new office building (I guess they are in Scotia Square?). Presumably this is what would go on the Lower Water/Morris site where that graffiti wall is currently.

[terrynorthend]

Lets get realistic. This will be turned around, and we will expand the current trade centre into the metro centre and then build a new stadium.

I'm with SDM here. Fred and the Trade Centre have been floating Metro Centre 2 for years now, and they have always talked about expanding the convention centre into the old metro centre when that happens.

I was thinking about this..If they demol the stands in the metro centre and take out the concourses, ie. raze it to a shell, they could build a lower floor at ice-level with a post and beam ceiling for basic convention space, and above it make a vaulted hall to the roof of the arena for an airy modern space..and that should give them an additional 120K sq feet at least.. added to the 50K they have now..its right in the ballpark. I'd bet $$ its part of Fred's master plan.

[Dmajackson]

Problem is the herald lands are privately owned and the developer in not likely to switch to a convention centre

I think this might of been in the Metro, they had an article on the convention centre and the owner of the Herald site said he'll probaby revisit his plans to see if a convention centre would be possible/better. I'll have a look for it online and post it if i find it.

[someone123]

That's been talked about for years. I agree that it seems like the most likely final result. Of course, there's still the issue of the new arena site (somewhere along the waterfront? shoehorned on the Cogswell lands?).

I hope they spend some money to fix up the Metro Centre exterior.

[Dmajackson]

Herald site eyed for WTC
RACHEL MENDLESON
Metronews - Halifax


The blueprint for a multi-use development for the Chronicle Herald site is nearly complete. But the developer says he’ll contemplate starting fresh if the property qualifies to house a new World Trade and Convention Centre.

“Hypothetically, if it fits with our plans, yes, we would consider it,” Joe Remia, director of Rank Inc. said.

The city and province made a joint call Tuesday for expressions of interest for a convention centre to replace the Argyle Street facility.

Following the announcement, Mayor Peter Kelly listed the Chronicle Herald grounds among several possible sites, including the Emera property, the Cogswell Interchange and Pier 21 lands.

The expression of interest document will be released some time in the next two weeks. At that time, Remia says he’ll decide whether to officially throw his hat in the ring.

“I need to see if it would suit and what the requirements are. Of course we’re going to take a look,” he said. “I think Halifax is a great convention city, personally.”

Redrafting the plans however, would set him back substantially.

Before Tuesday’s announcement, Remia says he had intended to seek a development agreement in the next couple of weeks.

“Right now what we have is a multi-use project, which entails retail, residential, hotel and office,” he said.

He says he expects the current tenants to be moved out by late summer or early fall. With the demolition permit in hand and an environmental assessment completed, the building could be knocked down while the development agreement process is taking place.

Trade Centre CEO Fred MacGillivray said Tuesday Halifax’s inability to accommodate large conventions means business has gone to other cities instead.

“It’s time for us to move to the next level if we’re going to compete with other convention facilities across Canada,” he said.

rachel.mendleson@metronews.ca

[someone123]

I really hope they decide against delaying it because as I've mentioned the Herald lands would be a terrible choice. The downtown also needs some actual construction instead of endless low-grade speculation and planning of 50 different projects. The city needs some clear leadership and priorities. There's no way a convention centre, arena, stadium, library, ferry, bridge, office buildings, commuter rail, elevator to the moon, etc. etc. are all going to happen at once.

[terrynorthend]

I agree. No delays. But for more selfish reasons. I'd love to see them tear down the Herald building before summer is over. I think I'd enjoy long evenings lingering in the SUNLIGHT on the Shoeshop's patio... :)

[Keith P.]

I agree. No delays. But for more selfish reasons. I'd love to see them tear down the Herald building before summer is over. I think I'd enjoy long evenings lingering in the SUNLIGHT on the Shoeshop's patio... :)

I confess I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Sue Uteck can get a bylaw passed protecting the sun view from the Shoeshop patio. ;)

[Jonovision]

As much as i love the idea of sitting in the sun on the patio at the shoe shop (which ive actually done :P) I kinda wish they could find a way to preserve some of the old building. It does have some merit. If they were to at least keep some of the facade on argyle.

[terrynorthend]

As much as i love the idea of sitting in the sun on the patio at the shoe shop (which ive actually done :P) I kinda wish they could find a way to preserve some of the old building. It does have some merit. If they were to at least keep some of the facade on argyle.

I agree Jono. I've sat on Arygyle with friends, and I always find myself arguing the merits of the Herald building. (and I am always in the minority, usually a minority of one..Lol) I love the Bauhaus quality of the Argyle facade. If the ground floor was open and full of shops and restaurants with a nice streetscape, patios, etc..the upper floors would make great loftspace living and/or offices.

PS, I realize the building needs a lot of remediation work.. I just like the look of it.

[Jonovision]

Yah, that's exactly what I was thinking. The first floor looks to be quite easy to convert into shops, and I know I would love a loft space up there. However, the upper side of the building, on Grafton has no real redeeming quality as far as I'm concerned.

[Spitfire75]

Convention centre idea draws lots of interest (http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1051629.html)
Big names in HRM development world show up for info session
By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Thu. Apr 24 - 6:46 AM
http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/images/spacer.gif

The opportunity to build a new downtown convention centre has attracted a veritable who’s who of the Halifax development world.

The number of people who attended a recent meeting, which was mandatory for anyone interested in submitting a proposal, shows that many architects and developers are keen to get on board.

"Everybody was there kicking tires and seeing who else was there," Halifax architect John Crace, a partner with WHW Group, said Wednesday.

Phil Townsend, manager of capital projects for the municipality, told the group that the exercise was a bit of a "fishing trip," just to see who comes out of the woodwork, Mr. Crace said.

Last month, the province and city announced they were seeking preliminary proposals from developers to replace the World Trade and Convention Centre.

Expressions of interest are sought for a convention centre with a minimum of 150,000 square feet to accommodate large conventions and several smaller events simultaneously.

The new building would almost triple the size of the existing facility, which is attached to the Metro Centre on Argyle Street and has 55,000 square feet of convention space.

It would also bring Halifax more in line with the national average for convention centre size, which is about 158,000 square feet.

Fred MacGillivray, president and CEO of Trade Centre Ltd., a provincial Crown corporation, said he was pleased to see so many companies and groups represented at the meeting.

"It was a good turnout," Mr. MacGillivray said in an interview Wednesday.
"We know that it is a pretty significant project and certainly one we are very anxious and positive about."

The group, which convened in the lobby of the centre, built in 1984, reviewed the outline made public last month. Many of those who attended were people who have an interest in "taking a lead" or who want to team up with other groups, he said.

"Some of them are architects, some are engineers, some are contractors — it was a mix of people who might be involved in something like that."
They will all be expected to submit their own proposals by May 16. At that point, they will be evaluated and ranked. A government-appointed committee will then produce a short list.

"They might have a different approach, but they all have to address the property issue and whatever they plan to build," Mr. McGillivray said of the proposals.

Mr. Crace said it’s likely that most applicants will submit a financial outline and a plan.

"There may be some sketchy designs that show what might be possible on any given site, but there are a pretty limited number of sites in the subject area," Mr. Crace said.

Four or five candidate sites are known to government staff, including the Cogswell interchange, land by the Pier 21 immigration museum and property occupied by The Chronicle Herald.

This newspaper is moving over the summer to offices at the Armdale Roundabout. The current site, along with the parking lots on the block behind, has been called an ideal spot for a new convention centre.

A representative of Argyle Developments Ltd., the group that bought The Chronicle Herald property, attended the session.

THE SHORT LIST:
Here’s a list of the individuals / companies that attended an information session on the new trade and convention centre:
•Raymond Lewis
•ADI Ltd.
•Jacques Whitford
•Sonco Group Inc.
•CBCL Ltd.
•EllisDon Corp.
•Argyle Developments Inc.
•MHPM Project Managers
•PCL Constructors Canada Ltd.
•Stantec Consulting
•MacDonnell Group
•Pomerleau Inc.
•MacKay-Lyons Sweetapple
Architects
•Trax Atlantic Developments
•Aecon Atlantic Group
•WHW Architects
•Rank Inc.
•Noel Fowler Architect
•Bird / Rideau

[sdm]

Funny i look at the list and its all contractors or architects, not developers.

This looks like its off to a terrible start.

[someone123]

It all sounds pretty vague. They just want to be presented with the perfect plan they can rubber stamp I guess, and that approach rarely seems to produce good results.

I just hope this doesn't derail any other Herald lands development. We don't need yet more empty/underused land in the core caught up in limbo for development who knows when.

[sdm]

It all sounds pretty vague. They just want to be presented with the perfect plan they can rubber stamp I guess, and that approach rarely seems to produce good results.

I just hope this doesn't derail any other Herald lands development. We don't need yet more empty/underused land in the core caught up in limbo for development who knows when.

Probably will happen on its own as the recent HRM by design limits the amount of office space that could be developed on the Herald lands by 100,000 square feet. Therefore hurting the economics of the development further then it already is.

I still have the feeling this is merely a useless exercise and that we will be told the most feasible way is to expand into the metro centre and that we now need a new stadium. Not a bad idea, but it does make the most sense seeing that was one of the original intents to the current centre's design

[hfx_chris]

...seeing that was one of the original intents to the current centre's designThat it could be expanded into the Metro Centre?

[sdm]

That it could be expanded into the Metro Centre?

From my understanding yes.

[hfx_chris]

Clever! Ideally, that's what I would like to see happen. I know the idea of a new building is nice, but seriously, the MC should be replaced, and you're going to be left with a huge chunk of building already attached to the existing convention centre that's just begging to be used...

[hfx_chris]

The Expression of Interest is still up on the HRM site; I hadn't checked the site in a while, so I just stumbled upon it today in the list of public tenders and RFPs.

I'm going to copy a small portion of the text here, which describes the location requirements for the new facility:

Location - Halifax has a strong reputation as a compact, convenient major event city.
Delegates marvel at their ability to attend events within minutes of a full range of services and
activities. Access to the waterfront is a major asset. The facility needs to be in the downtown
core. The downtown core is, and will continue to be, a main selling feature including ease of
access to the waterfront, bars, restaurants, hotels and other attractions. As outlined in Appendix
B, the geographic boundaries of the sites that will be considered in responses to this Expression
of Interest are:
North - Cornwallis Street from Harbour to Brunswick
West - Brunswick Street from Cornwallis to Spring Garden Road
South - Spring Garden Road to Barrington Street to Inglis Street extended to Harbour

[Smevo]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2008/06/19/cogswell-convention-centre.html

Proposal replaces Halifax's Cogswell interchange with convention centre

Last Updated: Thursday, June 19, 2008 | 3:00 PM AT
CBC News

A developer proposes to tear down the concrete Cogswell interchange in downtown Halifax and put up a convention centre and hotel.

The proposal by the Hardman Group is one of six submitted to the province and municipality for a new, larger World Trade and Convention Centre.

The company, which built Scotia Square and the Metro Centre, wants to place a convention centre and Hilton hotel on 6.4 hectares now occupied by the overpasses and roads that make up the Cogswell interchange.

The site is close to downtown hotels and other amenities, so there's "no better location," said Hardman Group executive vice-president Colin Whitcomb.

The existing road network shouldn't pose a big problem, he added.

"It would take about eight months to demolish the interchange and reconnect the new street network for the north and south streets. There's also lots of land to put in a temporary road network and to re-route traffic during construction time," he said.

Whitcomb said the revamped site would include residential and green spaces.

Unlike the Hardman Group, some bidders are keeping their plans for a new convention centre quiet.

Representatives of Bird-Rideau Construction didn't want to reveal too much, but confirmed the Cogswell interchange is not the site they have in mind.

No one at the Halifax Port Authority, which owns land along the waterfront, wanted to comment on its proposal.

The two levels of government asked for expressions of interest in March, noting the main criteria were that the new building be at least 150,000 square feet and be located in downtown Halifax.

The current World Trade and Convention Centre on Argyle Street is no longer big enough to meet the city's needs, Premier Rodney MacDonald said at the time.

Provincial and municipal officials are considering the six proposals. They'll come up with a short list of companies, who will then have to go into greater detail in an official request for proposals.

[Dmajackson]

From the Herald today:

Convention centre bid list pared to two

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Fri. Oct 24 - 4:46 AM
The city and province have narrowed the list down to two for a new convention centre.

Sources say the short list contains the former Herald site on Argyle Street, now owned by Joe Ramia’s Argyle Developments, and the Cogswell Street Interchange site proposed by the Hardman Group.

A panel of provincial and municipal appointees took the last few months reviewing the six firms who responded to a spring call for a new convention centre.

The list included Bird/Rideau Construction and Southwest Properties, EastPen Inc., Halifax Port Authority and Anwyll Fogo Architects.

Reached Thursday, Mayor Peter Kelly wouldn’t confirm the site selections but did allow that there were only two names remaining on the list.

"I’d have to reserve comment pending council’s approach in dealing with that," he said.

He says the city and province have been working "very well" on the convention project and were planning to meet next week to discuss it.

"It’s time to move that one forward and with a co-operative approach, I think we can bring forward some great opportunities to expand the convention market and to further enhance the business market as well."

The plan is to replace the existing trade centre on Argyle Street. A new centre would have a minimum of 150,000 square feet, nearly three times the size of the trade centre.

Fred McGillivray, president and CEO of Trade Centre Limited, said this week that he hadn’t been in on the discussions.

He’s merely waiting to hear that the new site can accommodate the required specifics.

He’d rather see a new building sooner than later, which has some people wondering about the viability of the Cogswell Street site.

However, downtown Halifax business commission head Paul MacKinnon says the city plans to hire a consultant to look at the "nuts and bolts" of what the land would look like at the end of the day.

"Actually demolishing the interchange and putting the roads back in is not a lengthy process at all. It can be done in a matter of months," he said.

Hardman group vice-president Colin Whitcomb confirmed this week that their analysis indicates the interchange work would take about 16 months from beginning to finish.

"That’s to take it down and then reintegrate the street network and put it back in place," he said.

There is no specific date for requests for proposals, he said, adding that their proposal would likely take 3 1/2 to four years to complete.

"We want to submit. We think we have a good proposal and we think it’s something that deserves to be heard in the community and it deserves to be considered," he said

[Spitfire75]

Considering the Cogswell site would take a lot more time and money before they can even start building a convention center, I'd put my bet on the Herald site.

[Haliguy]

Just heard on Live at 5 that the Herald lands have been selected for the new convention centre

[terrynorthend]

Just heard on Live at 5 that the Herald lands have been selected for the new convention centre

Yeah. Good luck building a 17 and 13 story set of towers on that site so far up the hill... i can hear the screaming already..

On a side note, the CH (http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1103323.html) is reporting that Medjuck plans to build a 20 story apartment or office tower on the corner of Barrington and Sackville where the Discovery Center currently is.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Just heard on Live at 5 that the Herald lands have been selected for the new convention centre

That is good news.

[spaustin]

I don't think that's good news at all. There is so much else that could be done with the Herald lands that would add more sustained vibrancy to that part of the city. A convention centre there will be busy some of the time, but will, more often than not, be empty since that's the nature of the business. The effect will be compounded by the neighbouring Metro Centre. I would have liked to have seen the Convention Centre located on one of the other sites like the Cogswell. With the federal money coming available, we could have knocked down the Cogswell and put the Convention Centre there.

Any idea what will happen to the old site? Will it be incorporated into the new Convention Centre and we'll just have a massive facility or will it be abandoned to be put to some other use?

[Keith P.]

What EXACTLY did they report? Because that is contrary to my information and Live at 5 is not noted for their factual diligence.

[phrenic]

I only caught the last 30 seconds of the report on the ATV news at 6. It appears the proposal includes the herald site and the area across the street where the midtown tower was proposed a few years ago. On the rendering there were two towers (I didn't catch the height) and the reporter said that section of Granville street would become a podium with a five story glass ceiling....or something to that effect.

[Dmajackson]

Announcement coming on Halifax's new convention centre, CTV reports
Luxury hotel, office tower part of project
By OUR STAFF
Wed. Jan 28 - 7:10 PM

Out with the old and in with the new, as they say.

The old Chronicle Herald building on Argyle Street and its neighbour the Midtown Tavern on Grafton Street will soon make way for Halifax’s new convention centre, CTV News reported Wednesday night.
The project, which is expected to be announced in the next week or so, will feature a 17-storey luxury hotel on the block facing Argyle Street, while the popular eatery and adjacent parking lot will soon be the site of a 13-storey glass office tower.

CTV reported that municipal and provincial politicians, as well as the developer, Argyle Developments Inc., declined to comment on the proposed project.

However, Fred MacGillivray, outgoing CEO of the current World Trade and Convention Centre, confirmed that the more than 25-year-old facility is now too small for many of the events that come to Halifax.“We are turning away business now that we were getting for many years that have outgrown us,” Mr. MacGillivray told CTV.

=====================================

I'm overly disappointed with this decision. I'm just hopeful the ground floor will have some good retail to keep the street activity level up.

[Keith P.]

I find it hard to believe that HRM, having fought so hard to successfully derail the Midtown proposal, will endorse this for the same site. And HRM is a key component of TCL's Board.

[Wishblade]

I've just gotta throw this in here. Are there more high rise proposals downtown now than existing high rises? Cuz its sure as hell starting to feel like it...

[someone123]

I find it hard to believe that HRM, having fought so hard to successfully derail the Midtown proposal, will endorse this for the same site. And HRM is a key component of TCL's Board.

It's possible that the 17 storey tower could be for the Herald site specifically, one block down. I believe HRM originally asked for a fairly minor reduction in height of the Midtown (which kind of makes you wonder what was wrong with 17 there, but whatever).

Anyway, I will still hold off on commenting until I see what is actually built. My biggest reservation is the whole idea of building over Grafton Street, which is what they would have to do to make this site worthwhile. One busy block will be cut off, unless they do something fairly creative which is sort of beyond my expectations (e.g. connected upper floors and under the street with a canopy).

[Barrington south]

Just heard on Live at 5 that the Herald lands have been selected for the new convention centre

F*** :hell:

[someone123]

Just for something interesting, here's the canopy over Pike Street in Seattle built as part of the convention centre there:


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2405/2447368300_95a62904c1_b.jpg
by seattlerayhutch45 on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/galleryofsloth/2447368300/)

[Barrington south]

I am happy there will (hopefully) be two towers...at least it will help add density to the core...and like DJ said, hopefully there will be some good street level retail. With the towers and the possibility of retail it could turn out better then than the monolith I was dreading

[spaustin]

I find it hard to believe that HRM, having fought so hard to successfully derail the Midtown proposal, will endorse this for the same site. And HRM is a key component of TCL's Board.

HRM approved the Midtown. The Midtown died on appeal to the URB.

Agreed, blocking Grafton off would be a big mistake. The Metro Centre certainly didn't do any favours for Market Street.

[someone123]

Does anybody know what the legal process is for a development like this that involves the province? Was there any kind of initial approval and appeal process for buildings like the Metro Centre? What about, say, the office building on the waterfront constructed for the G7, which is much more recent?

I agree that the towers make this sound like a much better proposal than it would be otherwise.

[Jonovision]

It sounds interesting. I would get really really pissed off though if they built over Grafton. I would have thought by now after all these years living with the Metro Centre and Scotia Square that the city knows better.
That Seattle example looks amazing, and I would totally support something like that!
I'm gonna watch the news tonight to see what they show.

[Keith P.]

Does anybody know what the legal process is for a development like this that involves the province? Was there any kind of initial approval and appeal process for buildings like the Metro Centre? What about, say, the office building on the waterfront constructed for the G7, which is much more recent?

I agree that the towers make this sound like a much better proposal than it would be otherwise.

Well, the office building on the waterfront -- if you are talking about Summit Place -- wasn't actually built for the G7. It was there already under a different name when the summit was announced for here.

I am pretty sure that projects led by either the province or the feds are not subject to the municipal development requirements. In this case the city owns the Metro Center, the province owns the existing WTCC, and they are both overseen by a Board that has reps from both levels of government.

[Keith P.]

It sounds interesting. I would get really really pissed off though if they built over Grafton. I would have thought by now after all these years living with the Metro Centre and Scotia Square that the city knows better.
That Seattle example looks amazing, and I would totally support something like that!
I'm gonna watch the news tonight to see what they show.

Seattle is such a great city. I just loved it there.

[sdm]

there will be a five storey section connecting the two towers built over grafton. Grafton street will no longer exist.

Its funny because i remember when prince geroge was built, it wasn't allowed to go higher then it is now, so how could these two towers be built at the height stated? They are not slender, they are basically from one end of the block to the other, with some slight step in from the streets on the ends.

One thing of interst is in HRM by design the height was given a bonus to a maximum of 9 stories......

From the renderings the project looked nice, but believe if allowed then we will see a flood of calls to axe the view planes.

[Barrington south]

SDM...where did you see the renderings?...was it one of your inside connections, or is it somewhere I can access?

[Barrington south]

Man, 3 towers proposed for downtown in one day! That's fairly impressive...:tup:

[Haliguy]

SDM...where did you see the renderings?...was it one of your inside connections, or is it somewhere I can access?

I seen it on the news tonight, I'm not sure where else you can see them.

[Barrington south]

I seen it on the news tonight, I'm not sure where else you can see them.

ohh...thanks Haliguy

[sdm]

I seen it on the news tonight, I'm not sure where else you can see them.

news as well i have seen them before tonight from a source.

[kph06]

I just saw this on the news, the buildings are a mix of green glass and brick, it was a quick shot of the rendering, but looked decent. I'm pretty sure they said they'd like to have it built by 2011, did I hear that right?

[Jonovision]

I just saw them on the news. They are kinda modern looking, slightly curved around the edges. There was a fair amount of red brick for the base. Can't say I'm a big fan of that. That is absolutely horrible news that they will be building on top of Grafton. Although when I saw the renderings it wasn't completely clear. So I will still hope for the best.

[sdm]

I just saw this on the news, the buildings are a mix of green glass and brick, it was a quick shot of the rendering, but looked decent. I'm pretty sure they said they'd like to have it built by 2011, did I hear that right?

yeah, question is if the project needs to go through the development agreement process?

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Convention centre proposed for old Herald properties
Project includes luxury hotel, office towers; will be triple the capacity of current trade centre

By JENNIFER STEWART Staff Reporter
Thu. Jan 29 - 5:34 AM

Out with the old and in with the new, as they say.

The old Chronicle Herald building on Argyle Street and its neighbour, the Midtown Tavern on Grafton Street, will soon make way for Halifax’s new convention centre, CTV News reported Wednesday night.

The convention centre project, expected to be announced in the next week or so, will also feature a 17-storey luxury hotel on the block facing Argyle Street and a 13-storey glass office tower on the site of the popular eatery and adjacent parking lot.

Seating capacity in the new convention centre is expected to be in the 2,500 range, roughly three times the capacity of the current World Trade and Convention Centre, also on Argyle Street.

CTV reported that municipal and provincial politicians, as well as the developer, Argyle Developments Inc., declined to comment on the proposed project.

Indeed, Mayor Peter Kelly, contacted later Wednesday night, was tight-lipped on any proposals, pointing out that the expression of interest process is not yet finished.

"No final decisions have been made yet," he said.

Once that process wraps up, he said, the province will make a formal announcement.

Fred MacGillivray, outgoing CEO of the current convention centre, confirmed that the more than 25-year-old facility is too small for many of the conventions that come to Halifax.

"We are turning away business now that we were getting for many years that have outgrown us," he told CTV.

Joe Ramia of Argyle Developments could not be reached for comment Wednesday night.

But in an interview last summer, he told The Chronicle Herald that a new convention centre was one of three possible scenarios for the prime property, one of the largest single pieces of real estate in the downtown core.

Argyle Developments bought the Chronicle Herald property in 2007 from the estate of the late cable TV mogul Charles Keating, which had listed it for $15 million. Mr. Keating purchased the property from the Dennis family, owners of The Halifax Herald Ltd., in 2002.

Last July, Mr. Ramia also bought the nearby Midtown property for $1.5 million after the children of the pub’s former owner, Doug Grant, were involved in a court battle.

[sdm]

Ok, the question has to be asked, who goof'd on this one?

[Dmajackson]

I was reading the comments on the Herald website and so far most of the people are for this. There hasnt been any complaints really about the height yet its just been more about the street activity. This might get through without too much trouble if the HT don't go crazy.

I have a feeling some people from this forum post on the CH website *cough* spaustin *cough* ;) (good job correcting the people about Midtown)

[worldlyhaligonian]

I have always thought this was the best spot for the convention centre. Cogswell is years away and this is 2 towers... nothing could be worse that the current state of affairs for these lands... I'll have to see the proposal, but I assume they will be smart and have a good plan for the ground floor.

[terrynorthend]

I have always thought this was the best spot for the convention centre. Cogswell is years away and this is 2 towers... nothing could be worse that the current state of affairs for these lands... I'll have to see the proposal, but I assume they will be smart and have a good plan for the ground floor.

Honestly, from the "artist's conception" on CTV last night, I can't say it looks like they have a good plan for the ground floor. Looked like lots of brick wall at street level going up the hill along Prince, and nothing but a row of glass doors/ plate glass windows (similar to an arena) along the Argyle elevation. The glass in the rendering was somewhat transparent, giving a hint that all that was behind it was lofted convention floor space, maybe 3 or 4 stories. You could make out some large multi-story arches inside that spanned the width. Those were kind of interesting. Didn't see anything to suggest that retail would have any part of it. Overall my impression was mid-to-low. The east tower looked okay, but generally there is too much redbrick and dark green glass giving it a heavy, massive feeling. Looks like it was conceived in the late 80's or early 90's. The current WTCC was/is still a more striking piece of architecture (and sadly that's saying something :( )

[Keith P.]

Allnovascotia.com reported something very different today, that the process is still underway. I give them a lot more credit than Rick Grant of ATV. Near as I can tell, Ramia or someone at that end leaked the story and the renderings to Grant in an attempt to preempt the decision. Maybe his financing for the project he originally planned for the Herald site fell thru, but who knows. Grant then manufactured a piece for the news using an old tape of Fred and the renderings. My contacts downtown tell me that this is not the decision and that the Cogswell site is still the preferred one, but that talks are still going on.

[spaustin]

I have a feeling some people from this forum post on the CH website *cough* spaustin *cough* ;) (good job correcting the people about Midtown)

And you spotted me through my cleverly disguised alias ;)

I hope Keith is correct and that this isn't quite as done a deal as ATV indicated. The timing for the Cogswell option couldn't be better. The federal money is about to flow and the Cogswell is on the city's wish list. We could knock it down and build a convention centre and have Ottawa carry some of the bill!

[terrynorthend]

Wow. I hope so too. There was something fishy about this. Was it in today's article that said Ramia would release his plans in a couple of weeks.. that's just odd if he was chosen already..why the wait..

[Barrington south]

but I assume they will be smart and have a good plan for the ground floor.

That's a very strange assumption...considering the way this town usually operates :koko:

[sdm]

Wow. I hope so too. There was something fishy about this. Was it in today's article that said Ramia would release his plans in a couple of weeks.. that's just odd if he was chosen already..why the wait..

thats the same message we saw months ago, yet nothing has come.

I rather see the convention centre closer to the waterfront. I mean think of the substainable design elements that could be utilized such as sea water

[terrynorthend]

CTV reported that municipal and provincial politicians, as well as the developer, Argyle Developments Inc., declined to comment on the proposed project.

Indeed, Mayor Peter Kelly, contacted later Wednesday night, was tight-lipped on any proposals, pointing out that the expression of interest process is not yet finished.

"No final decisions have been made yet," he said.

Once that process wraps up, he said, the province will make a formal announcement.


Joe Ramia of Argyle Developments could not be reached for comment Wednesday night.



Well duh, there it was up above in black and white. I guess I missed that earlier.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Honestly, from the "artist's conception" on CTV last night, I can't say it looks like they have a good plan for the ground floor. Looked like lots of brick wall at street level going up the hill along Prince, and nothing but a row of glass doors/ plate glass windows (similar to an arena) along the Argyle elevation. The glass in the rendering was somewhat transparent, giving a hint that all that was behind it was lofted convention floor space, maybe 3 or 4 stories. You could make out some large multi-story arches inside that spanned the width. Those were kind of interesting. Didn't see anything to suggest that retail would have any part of it. Overall my impression was mid-to-low. The east tower looked okay, but generally there is too much redbrick and dark green glass giving it a heavy, massive feeling. Looks like it was conceived in the late 80's or early 90's. The current WTCC was/is still a more striking piece of architecture (and sadly that's saying something :( )

Yeah, but look at it now.

Something needs to happen on that land.

[phrenic]

Heritage group worried about new WTCC
PAUL MCLEOD FOR METRO HALIFAX
January 30, 2009 12:12

The former Chronicle Herald building site on Argyle will be the home of the new World Trade and Convention Centre, according to CTV News.

Politicians at both levels of government are staying tight-lipped, and officially no decision has been made yet.

But CTV says the Argyle Street site, which also includes the Midtown Tavern on Grafton Street, has beaten its competition.

Citing anonymous sour­ces, reporter Rick Grant said winning developer Joe Ramia was planning a 13-storey glass office tower on the Midtown Tavern site and a 17-storey hotel where the old Herald building currently stands.

The Herald site would also hold the new convention centre, which would feature 2,500 seats. That’s about three times what the current centre holds.

Diagrams show a pedway connecting the two buildings over Grafton Street.

Despite the details from Grant’s report, politicians and developers have shied away from confirming anything on the record.

“We’ve made no decision yet. We’re working very closely with the city and we’ll have more details in the future,” Premier Rodney MacDonald said.

When asked if Argyle Street would be the new home of the convention centre, he said again, “We haven’t made any final decisions yet, and those details will come out another day.”

Phil Pacey, president of the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia, implied his group might fight the development. While the lot is not a heritage site, Pacey pointed out it is near other heritage buildings such as St. Paul’s Church.

“We would want buildings to respect the scale and complement those heritage buildings,” said Pacey.

With files from Jennifer Taplin

paul.mcleod@metronews.ca

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/174356

[sdm]

Heritage group worried about new WTCC
PAUL MCLEOD FOR METRO HALIFAX
January 30, 2009 12:12

The former Chronicle Herald building site on Argyle will be the home of the new World Trade and Convention Centre, according to CTV News.

Politicians at both levels of government are staying tight-lipped, and officially no decision has been made yet.

But CTV says the Argyle Street site, which also includes the Midtown Tavern on Grafton Street, has beaten its competition.

Citing anonymous sour­ces, reporter Rick Grant said winning developer Joe Ramia was planning a 13-storey glass office tower on the Midtown Tavern site and a 17-storey hotel where the old Herald building currently stands.

The Herald site would also hold the new convention centre, which would feature 2,500 seats. That’s about three times what the current centre holds.

Diagrams show a pedway connecting the two buildings over Grafton Street.

Despite the details from Grant’s report, politicians and developers have shied away from confirming anything on the record.

“We’ve made no decision yet. We’re working very closely with the city and we’ll have more details in the future,” Premier Rodney MacDonald said.

When asked if Argyle Street would be the new home of the convention centre, he said again, “We haven’t made any final decisions yet, and those details will come out another day.”

Phil Pacey, president of the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia, implied his group might fight the development. While the lot is not a heritage site, Pacey pointed out it is near other heritage buildings such as St. Paul’s Church.

“We would want buildings to respect the scale and complement those heritage buildings,” said Pacey.

With files from Jennifer Taplin

paul.mcleod@metronews.ca

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/174356

Surprise.....................

Although i believe their might be issues with rampart views for the site, which is why the Midtown lost its UARB appeal.

Nonetheless, i am not surprised HT is out already on this. I think we should create a thread showing every development and if HT opposes it. I think the data would be shocking.....

[spaustin]

Sigh. By opposing projects on vacant lots the Trust is just making it tougher to be taken seriously when there are actual heritage issues to be considered (Roy Building, Waterside Centre). On the plus side, the line about the renderings showing pedways over Grafton is fanatastic news. I still think the Convention Centre would be better placed down at the Cogswell, but at least if it goes on the Herald site they won't obliterate Grafton Street.

[phrenic]

I think we should create a thread showing every development and if HT opposes it. I think the data would be shocking.....


...and forward it to the Herald?

[Jonovision]

I'm slightly more optimistic when they say there will be a pedway over Grafton, but I'm still gonna wait till we get the final renders and announcement to make any final decision on it.

[sdm]

I'm slightly more optimistic when they say there will be a pedway over Grafton, but I'm still gonna wait till we get the final renders and announcement to make any final decision on it.

I am sorry to say its not a pedway. The renderings show its a five storey glass atrium between the buildings at ground level. Therefore Grafton street is no more as it will have this structure built on top of it.

That is where the required convention floors space comes from

[hfx_chris]

...and forward it to the Herald?
That's an excellent idea!

[hfx_chris]

Phil Pacey, president of the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia, implied his group might fight the development. While the lot is not a heritage site, Pacey pointed out it is near other heritage buildings such as St. Paul’s Church.

“We would want buildings to respect the scale and complement those heritage buildings,” said Pacey.
What... HT protecting holes in the ground again? My word..

But seriously, it's kitty corner to St. Paul's. The current WTC is also next door, and the TD building is across the street. Is the HT seriously claiming that nothing large scale can be built within a 1-2 block radius of a heritage building without their disapproval?

Oh wait, I think I knew that already...

[Dmajackson]

What... HT protecting holes in the ground again? My word..

But seriously, it's kitty corner to St. Paul's. The current WTC is also next door, and the TD building is across the street. Is the HT seriously claiming that nothing large scale can be built within a 1-2 block radius of a heritage building without their disapproval?

Oh wait, I think I knew that already...

Even however many years ago the church was built I think the people knew then it was in the middle of town and that towns don't stay the same for long.

For anyone who might be curious the HT is now 50 years old. I was reading an article on them and apparently they lost the first fight they ever picked. It was something to do with the SMU Rink (Huskies).

[Jonovision]

I am sorry to say its not a pedway. The renderings show its a five storey glass atrium between the buildings at ground level. Therefore Grafton street is no more as it will have this structure built on top of it.

That is where the required convention floors space comes from

SDM, do you have these renders? From what was shown on the news it was rather indistinct which option they had gone for.

[sdm]

SDM, do you have these renders? From what was shown on the news it was rather indistinct which option they had gone for.

Jon

I have seen them yes, but do not have a copy. From my understanding their is only one option.

[sdm]

Even however many years ago the church was built I think the people knew then it was in the middle of town and that towns don't stay the same for long.

For anyone who might be curious the HT is now 50 years old. I was reading an article on them and apparently they lost the first fight they ever picked. It was something to do with the SMU Rink (Huskies).

They have lost a lot of fights over the decades.

The problem is not a heritage trust in general, its the current directors who are the problem. This city needs a heritage trust, but a trust that is willing to compromise and work towards such.

To say it would affect St Pauls Chruch, which is what 3 blocks away, is more then a desperate ploy to get people to concerned.

If that was the case the downtown would never be what it is today

[Halifax Hillbilly]

I am sorry to say its not a pedway. The renderings show its a five storey glass atrium between the buildings at ground level. Therefore Grafton street is no more as it will have this structure built on top of it.

That is where the required convention floors space comes from

That would be a disaster that the top part of downtown would never recover from in my opinion. There are already too many super-blocks (Metro Centre/Trade Centre and Scotia Square) plus a few large footprint buildings such as the Prince George and Cambridge Suites that take up entire blocks and offer no street life. Argyle and Blowers are the only streets with anything going for them above Barrington and this project will seriously hurt Argyle if it goes ahead as described - blank walls, brick and glass.

I seriously hope that Cogswell is the choice. If HRM and the Province push forward with the Argyle convention centre they will be throwing out most of the major principles put forward by HRMbyDesign. Nothing like spending a million dollars and three years and than wrecking the whole endeavour with the first major downtown project. How will HRM possibly ask developers to follow these rules when they can't even be bothered?

[sdm]

That would be a disaster that the top part of downtown would never recover from in my opinion. There are already too many super-blocks (Metro Centre/Trade Centre and Scotia Square) plus a few large footprint buildings such as the Prince George and Cambridge Suites that take up entire blocks and offer no street life. Argyle and Blowers are the only streets with anything going for them above Barrington and this project will seriously hurt Argyle if it goes ahead as described - blank walls, brick and glass.

I seriously hope that Cogswell is the choice. If HRM and the Province push forward with the Argyle convention centre they will be throwing out most of the major principles put forward by HRMbyDesign. Nothing like spending a million dollars and three years and than wrecking the whole endeavour with the first major downtown project. How will HRM possibly ask developers to follow these rules when they can't even be bothered?

Excellent points

As expressed in HRM by design the site in question is allowed 9 stories if they provide a public area (convention centre). If they don't have that they are limited to 6 stories i believe.

if the project goes through i agree with you, HRM by design has already failed.

[sdm]

News out in allnovascotia, Rodney and Kelly have come public that the Herald lands are the only proposal they are requesting further information on.

They further said the reason for not selecting the Cogswell street area was that it would conflict the principals of HRM by Design.


Funny, so would the herald lands.....

[hfx_chris]

How does that conflict with HRM by Design?

[sdm]

How does that conflict with HRM by Design?

Under HRM by design the site is limited to 6 stories, but is allowed a post bonus height (public area being convention centre) to 9 stories.

I think its a poor location for the convention centre.

[Barrington south]

Under HRM by design the site is limited to 6 stories, but is allowed a post bonus height (public area being convention centre) to 9 stories.

I think its a poor location for the convention centre.

How does the Cogswell street area conflict with HRM by design?

[Takeo]

I agree. This is a bad development. The last thing we need in that area is another super block filled with blank walls. Extremely disappointing news.

[Haliguy]

Actually isnt there going to be a pedway over Granville maintianing the natural street grid?

I think if this is the case this is best location. Its in the heart of the downtown and would rather save the Cogswell lands as a place to build taller buildings.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Awful, awful decision. And where was the public process?

[sdm]

Ex-Herald site chosen for convention centre
Rank Group’s property in downtown Halifax selected over Cogswell bid
By CLARE MELLOR Business Reporter
Wed. Feb 4 - 4:46 AM


The former Halifax Herald site in downtown Halifax. (Eric Wynne / Staff)





The former Halifax Herald site on Argyle Street has been chosen as the location for a new downtown Halifax convention centre.

A selection committee from the province and the Halifax Regional Municipality announced Tuesday they have chosen the Rank Group, which proposed the Herald site, over another candidate, The Hardman Group, which had proposed the Cogswell Interchange as the site for the new convention centre.

"We are very happy to qualify and move to the next step," said Joe Ramia, one of the principals of the Rank Group, a group of investors led by the Ramia family. The Herald site is owned by Mr. Ramia’s Argyle Developments.

"We hope that it would make an improvement (to the) downtown for sure, especially in the heart of downtown," said Mr. Ramia, who said the selection committee informed him about the choice Tuesday morning.

A panel of provincial and municipal appointees narrowed the short list to two firms this fall from the original six firms who responded to a call last spring for a new convention centre.

Since then, HRM determined that the Cogswell Street site, proposed by the Hardman Group, would "not be made available for a convention centre, based on the principles outlined in HRM by Design," said a release issued Tuesday by Premier Rodney MacDonald’s office.

However, the Hardman Group called Tuesday’s decision premature and that it should have been given a better opportunity to argue its case. It has posted the proposal for the Cogswell Interchange site on a website (www.reclaimtheinterchange) and is inviting the public to weigh in on the subject.

"The next step was to invite the finalists to submit a proposal explaining in more detail how their project would work, how it would fit financial models. . . . What they are saying, basically, is that even though we qualified, they are not going to enable us to go to that step because they don’t want to consider the Cogswell Interchange lands as an available site," said executive vice-president Colin Whitcomb.

"We don’t really know why," he said.

The province and the city would benefit from an open and competitive request for proposals for the new convention centre, Mr. Whitcomb said.

Right now, it is not known if or when the convention centre will be a reality.

The next step is for the province and Halifax Regional Municipality to work on a detailed project plan for the convention centre with cost estimates and financing options.

"Our existing convention centre has served us well over the years, resulting in millions of dollars annually in direct and indirect economic impacts for the community," Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly said Tuesday in a release.

"HRM is interested in examining in more detail ways in which a larger facility could contribute to the continued growth of our economy, while contributing to our community’s reputation as leaders in . . . hosting of world-class events."

While Rank has submitted a preliminary proposal for the convention centre, Mr. Ramia said it will work with government to determine exact requirements for the new centre.

"We are the only ones who have qualified, so now the process becomes do they want to do it and how do we do it?""

He could not reveal a timeline for the project.

"That’s a decision that the city and the province will have to make. We are totally dependent on how quickly they are able and want to move."

The convention centre is just one part of Rank’s proposal for the Herald site.

"This will be a multi-use development, which could have a hotel, residential, retail, offices. It is not just a convention centre. It is a major project. The convention centre is just part of that proposal," Mr. Ramia said.

Argyle Developments bought the Herald property in 2007 from the estate of the late cable TV mogul Charles Keating. It was listed for $15 million. In 2002, Mr. Keating bought the property from the Dennis family, which owns The Halifax Herald Ltd.

( cmellor@herald.ca)

’This will be a multi-use development, which could have a hotel, residential, retail, offices. It is not just a convention centre. It is a major project.’

joe ramiaRank Group

[sdm]

here's the link to the Hardman proposal

www.reclaimtheinterchange.ca

[Jonovision]

The Hardmans Group proposal for the Cogswell land is a nice looking proposal and I cannot see how it would not comply with HRM By Design?! They are proposing to do a full urban design study before the architects even start anything. This seems really odd to me. And I like the idea of a signature building. And I see they also leaked that there will be a new Hilton Hotel downtown. I'm assuming that will either be in International Place or on the Trinity site.

[sdm]

The Hardmans Group proposal for the Cogswell land is a nice looking proposal and I cannot see how it would not comply with HRM By Design?! They are proposing to do a full urban design study before the architects even start anything. This seems really odd to me. And I like the idea of a signature building. And I see they also leaked that there will be a new Hilton Hotel downtown. I'm assuming that will either be in International Place or on the Trinity site.

As stated before, the Herald site proposal violates more HRM by design elements then the cogswell in my opinion.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I think you guys are out of your mind if you would rather have the herald lots look like they do right now.

The Cogswell proposal doesn't even have any renderings. And would it not violate the HRMbyDesign timelines for Cogswell? How much public money would they need to tear down a section of the interchange? Its just not feasible in the near future and I would be worried about a project never getting off the ground. Plus, Cogswell isn't as bad an eyesore as the Herald site, which ruins a whole streetscape that would otherwise be great.

It makes wayy more sense for it to go on the Herald lands. Think about it, an ugly lot would be replaced, there would be more towers in a part of the city that needs them right now, and there would be alot less demolition required. It would also mean that the Metro Centre could expand, yet still be in close proximity to the convention centre.

Cogswell is years away, and as much as I would like to see it gone, I want to be realistic for the city. International Place will end up filling a good gap and eventually I hope to see a comprehensive plan for the WHOLE Cogswell site.

I'm just worried about the heritage crew, they have managed to restrict too much economic growth in this city and I am really afraid of what impact they will have on the future growth of the city. I wonder how much money they have cost developers... now thats a crime.

[Barrington south]

hey SDM, how exactly does the cogswell proposal violate HRM by design?

[Barrington south]

worldlyhaligonian...they already had renderings for the herald lands all set to go before a request for convention center proposals was made. If the original mix-use development had proceeded they would have already been in the approval process stage...so in other words...this convention center is going to take much longer to complete and therefore your Ugly lots will be around that much longer. So i guess you are the one that is "out of your mind" because YOU are the one who wants these Lot's around for a longer amount of time...ohhh and the original proposal had a couple of towers to so that segment of your argument is void...also if your looking for a perfect opportunity to develop the interchange as a whole....THIS IS IT