[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[portapetey]

Is it just me or did they put room for three little shops going down prince street?
http://novacentre.ca/sites/default/files/market-after.jpg

I think they are just windows aren't they?

Now I want some baklava.

[someone123]

Way back when I remember reading a comment about how there would be display cases to decorate parts of the ground floor level, similar to what's in the MetroPark (on the Granville Street side if I remember correctly). I'm also guessing that's what those are. Better than nothing I guess.

I'm not all that upset about Market Street. It's a little better than I expected, and if the loading bays have to go somewhere above ground I'd pick that spot for them. I'm most interested to see how Grafton and Argyle turn out. If the covered portion of Grafton is well-executed it could be a unique new kind of public space in the city and tie together blocks on either side that have been separated by a wasteland for as long as I can remember.

[teddifax]

I would really like to see the configuration of Grafton St. and how the interior streetscape will turn out.

[beyeas]

I would really like to see the configuration of Grafton St. and how the interior streetscape will turn out.

Yeah I am quite curious about that, and when I look at it from the sidewalk now, I feel like this will come down to two keys things 1) what fronts onto that interior stretch that is of public interest, and 2) how will they light it such that it generates interest, feels safe, and welcomes you in.

[someone123]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but here's another rendering. The glass doesn't really seem to match what has gone up but there's a lot of detail showing what the lower levels are going to be like:

https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/10632269_1118114828219040_153609874_n.jpg
Source (https://www.instagram.com/julianparkinson/)

[portapetey]

Geez, that rendering makes it look almost garish. I'm glad it doesn't really look like that!

The "punched window" effect on the hotel *might* be growing on me a little, but I still prefer slate over dark brick on the podium levels. I think we could use more of that "West Coat aesthetic" here. I love that about the Clayton Park library - the K$sha Goodwill or whatever it's called.

[TheGreenBastard]

Who will be the major tenant in the BMO building on George St?

Also do you think they have enough BMO branding on that tower? good god.

Hopefully those huge signs don't actually cover up the windows.

[Drybrain]

The signage is pretty overbearing, honestly. Mars the facade. And it doesn't feel very Argyle-like to have a huge bank brand looming overhead.

[fenwick16]

I think the rendering makes the Nova Centre appear shorter than it would be from that vantage point.

[TheGreenBastard]

I think the rendering makes the Nova Centre appear shorter than it would be from that vantage point.

Actually pretty accurate.

[Empire]

I think the rendering makes the Nova Centre appear shorter than it would be from that vantage point.

I think you're right. Also, the open area beyond the Carleton sign seems like a stretch. I think this would all be Nova Centre.

[robotropolis]

I couldn't wait to come here and post this juicy blog post from the Willow Tree Group (Peggy Cameron et al).

https://willowtreehalifax.wordpress.com/tricks-of-the-trade/

Tricks of the Trade
April 8 2016


"Have you walked past the new Nova Centre? Like everyone else, you must be shocked by the enormous mass it has become in the middle of downtown. You didn’t expect that, did you? But the developer – in this case, supported by municipal and provincial officials – can reply that everything was shown in the drawings, so you shouldn’t be surprised. It’s your fault for not noticing. Therefore, let’s go back to the drawings to see where you went wrong..."

[musicman]

Captain Busquet got in on this one today too... Some things never change...

[OldDartmouthMark]

I couldn't wait to come here and post this juicy blog post from the Willow Tree Group (Peggy Cameron et al).

https://willowtreehalifax.wordpress.com/tricks-of-the-trade/

Tricks of the Trade
April 8 2016


"Have you walked past the new Nova Centre? Like everyone else, you must be shocked by the enormous mass it has become in the middle of downtown. You didn’t expect that, did you? But the developer – in this case, supported by municipal and provincial officials – can reply that everything was shown in the drawings, so you shouldn’t be surprised. It’s your fault for not noticing. Therefore, let’s go back to the drawings to see where you went wrong..."

Actually, despite that it smacks of the evil "anti-development", a good part of it is true regarding 'the sell'.

It's done in a lot of industries (it's rampant in the automotive world), actually, and not unique to development.

I think it's healthy to keep an objective view here as not all developments are as wonderful as the people who stand to profit from it would like us to believe. :2cents:

[someone123]

It's done in a lot of industries (it's rampant in the automotive world), actually, and not unique to development.

Hey, maybe they could compare the accuracy of the developer's renderings to the STV renderings that show the buildings as a solid red or black box? ;)

I find most of their points weak. They start by complaining that the neighbouring buildings aren't shown then the next rendering has them. They even complain that the renderings show blue sky instead of clouds and slush on the ground, and that you can't smell or touch the renderings. That is just silly.

If anything I think that 3D rendering has improved remarkably in recent years, and the requirements for things like accurate shadow models have improved to the point where people get a much more accurate impression of planned buildings than they ever could before. On top of that there was a lot of public consultation for this particular development; a lot of the features in the renderings, like the elevated ballroom level, are things people asked for. The developer had a physical scale model constructed as well.

[Keith P.]

Captain Busquet got in on this one today too... Some things never change...

He seemed off his game today though. Lots of pi**ing and moaning about everything but nothing very structured, just a whole lot of "ain't it awful" stuff. I guess being negative constantly like he is towards most everything gets fatiguing.

[fenwick16]

I couldn't wait to come here and post this juicy blog post from the Willow Tree Group (Peggy Cameron et al).

https://willowtreehalifax.wordpress.com/tricks-of-the-trade/

Tricks of the Trade
April 8 2016


"Have you walked past the new Nova Centre? Like everyone else, you must be shocked by the enormous mass it has become in the middle of downtown. You didn’t expect that, did you? But the developer – in this case, supported by municipal and provincial officials – can reply that everything was shown in the drawings, so you shouldn’t be surprised. It’s your fault for not noticing. Therefore, let’s go back to the drawings to see where you went wrong..."


What I find amusing is that the writer doesn't understand that many people want impressive buildings in the city. There are some (or maybe it is only me) who are even happy that the Nova Centre is built and it will irritate the anti-development crowd.

When I stated above that the rendering made it look smaller than I imagined it to be, I was simply hoping that in person it will look even bigger and more impressive.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Hey, maybe they could compare the accuracy of the developer's renderings to the STV renderings that show the buildings as a solid red or black box? ;)

I find most of their points weak. They start by complaining that the neighbouring buildings aren't shown then the next rendering has them. They even complain that the renderings show blue sky instead of clouds and slush on the ground, and that you can't smell or touch the renderings. That is just silly.

If anything I think that 3D rendering has improved remarkably in recent years, and the requirements for things like accurate shadow models have improved to the point where people get a much more accurate impression of planned buildings than they ever could before. On top of that there was a lot of public consultation for this particular development; a lot of the features in the renderings, like the elevated ballroom level, are things people asked for. The developer had a physical scale model constructed as well.

LOL @ STV renderings - it's painfully true.

I recall there were some renderings posted here last year that depicted the buildings in winter conditions (Dal buildings, I believe) and there were some comments about how depressing they were, or something along those lines. It does have an effect, but what salesman worth his salt wants to present his product in less-than-optimum conditions?

The only issue I have are the perspectives that don't accurately depict their surroundings. I think most people disregard the other items, such as the people depicted and such. :hmmm:

[planarchy]

What I find amusing is that the writer doesn't understand that many people want impressive buildings in the city. There are some (or maybe it is only me) who are even happy that the Nova Centre is built and it will irritate the anti-development crowd.

When I stated above that the rendering made it look smaller than I imagined it to be, I was simply hoping that in person it will look even bigger and more impressive.

The writer is an architect and prof at dal. He knows what he's talking about. But I'd blame the city before the developer for providing "altered views". The city requires submission of sketchup models and 3d renderings too early in the process. These are expensive to create and there is too much undefined. The city instead should be more concerned with getting accurate 2d elevations and a site plan. The rest is all just marketing, where you will always pick the most attractive view over the most accurate.

[fenwick16]

The writer is an architect and prof at dal. He knows what he's talking about. But I'd blame the city before the developer for providing "altered views". The city requires submission of sketchup models and 3d renderings too early in the process. These are expensive to create and there is too much undefined. The city instead should be more concerned with getting accurate 2d elevations and a site plan. The rest is all just marketing, where you will always pick the most attractive view over the most accurate.

So the architects who designed the Nova Centre didn't know what they were doing?

Why is there someone to blame?

Being a professor isn't better than being a practicing architect in my opinion.

[portapetey]

So the architects who designed the Nova Centre didn't know what they were doing?

Why is there someone to blame?

Being a professor isn't better than being a practicing architect in my opinion.

Exactly. While the arguments aren't wrong per se, they are fairly academic, and as academics can so often be, biased with a very contrarian critic's slant.

Granted, the renderings do make the buildings look a lot slighter and less squat / imposing than they are, and this was undoubtedly done on purpose as part of the marketing of the Centre.

But to analyze it in such detail and try to make it into an ethics issue à la Big Pharma is a rather silly academic exercise.

[Keith P.]

Exactly. While the arguments aren't wrong per se, they are fairly academic, and as academics can so often be, biased with a very contrarian critic's slant.

Granted, the renderings do make the buildings look a lot slighter and less squat / imposing than they are, and this was undoubtedly done on purpose as part of the marketing of the Centre.

But to analyze it in such detail and try to make it into an ethics issue à la Big Pharma is a rather silly academic exercise.


Anyone who tries to make a case using the hackneyed phraseology "Big <Whatever>" automatically gets dismissed by me.

[portapetey]

LOL @ STV renderings - it's painfully true.

I recall there were some renderings posted here last year that depicted the buildings in winter conditions (Dal buildings, I believe) and there were some comments about how depressing they were, or something along those lines. It does have an effect, but what salesman worth his salt wants to present his product in less-than-optimum conditions?

The only issue I have are the perspectives that don't accurately depict their surroundings. I think most people disregard the other items, such as the people depicted and such. :hmmm:


I remember that. I feel like it was a proposal for the Morris St. lands adjacent to the Central Library - so it might be somewhere in the Killer Stairs™ thread? Or in the Sister Sites thread?

[portapetey]

Anyone who tries to make a case using the hackneyed phraseology "Big <Whatever>" automatically gets dismissed by me.

Yup. Also treating all the Big Evils as proper nouns by capitalizing them.

I'm quite certain that excessive proper-nouning could be a diagnostic tool for mental health clinicians.

[counterfactual]

The writer is an architect and prof at dal. He knows what he's talking about. But I'd blame the city before the developer for providing "altered views". The city requires submission of sketchup models and 3d renderings too early in the process. These are expensive to create and there is too much undefined. The city instead should be more concerned with getting accurate 2d elevations and a site plan. The rest is all just marketing, where you will always pick the most attractive view over the most accurate.

It's funny that Parcell is calling the Nova Centre architectures "unethical" in light of this:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1330388-don%E2%80%99t-block-view-of-citadel-hill-from-new-halifax-library

In that Citadel piece, also written by Parcell but this time about the Doyle Block, he's added a bunch of renderings that would seem to suggest the Doyle proposal will all but destroy the Library view.

Now, I'm sure there will be *some* obstruction. But this?

BEFORE:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/u1027163/view_from_library_before.jpg

AFTER:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/u1027163/view_from_library_after.jpg

:haha::haha::haha:

By the looks of this-- if this second rendering were accurate, the Doyle block would have to occupy about 90% of Spring Garden / Queen intersection and roadway.

Let me turn Professor Purcell's question back at him: Isn't it unethical to create such exaggerated/inaccurate renderings in order to fool the public and whip it up into an anti-development fury?

[hokus83]

It's funny that Parcell is calling the Nova Centre architectures "unethical" in light of this:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1330388-don%E2%80%99t-block-view-of-citadel-hill-from-new-halifax-library

In that Citadel piece, also written by Parcell but this time about the Doyle Block, he's added a bunch of renderings that would seem to suggest the Doyle proposal will all but destroy the Library view.

Now, I'm sure there will be *some* obstruction. But this?

BEFORE:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/u1027163/view_from_library_before.jpg

AFTER:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/u1027163/view_from_library_after.jpg

:haha::haha::haha:

By the looks of this-- if this second rendering were accurate, the Doyle block would have to occupy about 90% of Spring Garden / Queen intersection and roadway.

Let me turn Professor Purcell's question back at him: Isn't it unethical to create such exaggerated/inaccurate renderings in order to fool the public and whip it up into an anti-development fury?

Seems like this Parcell guy has an agenda. He attacked the Doyle Block. And now he's attacking the Nova Centre. Just another anti-development voice, with the rest of the STV and Heritage disTrust.


He's mostly just senile

[counterfactual]

He's mostly just senile

Hey Hokus, do you mind editing your quote of my post? See my original, I edited out that last line (too speculative).

[counterfactual]

Exactly. While the arguments aren't wrong per se, they are fairly academic, and as academics can so often be, biased with a very contrarian critic's slant.

Granted, the renderings do make the buildings look a lot slighter and less squat / imposing than they are, and this was undoubtedly done on purpose as part of the marketing of the Centre.

But to analyze it in such detail and try to make it into an ethics issue à la Big Pharma is a rather silly academic exercise.

I think they're all mostly lame arguments or points that are self-evident to even laypersons viewing renderings.

Like his attack on cropping. Everyone understands that there is sometimes cropping, because, well, you want to focus on the proposal itself!

Or his attack on the YMCA building, arguing that the rendering makes the upper levels seem "as light as the clouds".

Actually, no, fool, that is glass and it is reflecting the blue sky and clouds. You'd have to be a moron to look at that and think "oh, look, the upper levels are floating!"

[RangerNS]

I think they're all mostly lame arguments or points that are self-evident to even laypersons viewing renderings.


They may be evident to someone really spending time doing a detailed analysis of the imagery. But they are not clinical drawings. They are not accurate rendering in a real scene.

Consider: an oil painting may accurately describe, say, a battle. Not because it accurately captures any 1/60th of a second from any possible view, but because it tells an accurate story. Things not happening in the same moment happen in the painting, impossible views are presented; it literally paints a picture invoking emotion and knowlage, not a moment in time.

Photographs, even absent photoshop, can be posed, lit, framed, and cropped to invoke a very inaccurate story, if entirely an accurate capture of a scene when a shutter is open.

It is an artistic process, and one can do so honestly, and one can do so dishonestly.

The perspective shot in question from the POV of being in Neptune theater is a total lie. The hotel is twice as far away. The Centennial building is at least that far off. They are separated from the subject building not by tiny urban streets, but by wide pedestrian malls.

Not showing the surrounding buildings would be inaccurate, but not evil; indeed, the view is of the new building and necessary. But the creator of that went out of their way to show the buildings and streetscape *wrong*.

While I don't think there should be a penny of government money in the project until they pay first months rent, I don't see the building itself as a problem. I don't see the redesign of Market as anything more than a trivial detail on a bazillion dollar project.

That the process involves renderings which are some of the worst cases of lies we have seen recently is a major issue, and one worth talking about.

[lawsond]

I couldn't wait to come here and post this juicy blog post from the Willow Tree Group (Peggy Cameron et al).

https://willowtreehalifax.wordpress.com/tricks-of-the-trade/

Tricks of the Trade
April 8 2016


"Have you walked past the new Nova Centre? Like everyone else, you must be shocked by the enormous mass it has become in the middle of downtown. You didn’t expect that, did you? But the developer – in this case, supported by municipal and provincial officials – can reply that everything was shown in the drawings, so you shouldn’t be surprised. It’s your fault for not noticing. Therefore, let’s go back to the drawings to see where you went wrong..."

God there are so many things wrong with this work of propaganda, I don't know where to start.
-the first line, "like everyone else, you must be shocked by the enormous mass if has become." What a leading piece of poop. It is written to imply that everyone thinks the Nova Centre is overbearing. It is based on not one single shred of evidence and simply implies that you, like everyone else, must be shocked. Ok, I am not shocked. Anyone else not shocked?
-the blurb was put out but the willow tree group who want to stop the project at the corner of Quinpool and Robie. They are using this to set up their opposition to their own personal pet peeve. Talk about tricks of the trade.
-renders are ads. Plain and simple. Claiming you have been duped by a render is like saying "those sugar frosted flakes were not as grrrreat as the tiger claimed". Really? The function of any ad is to sell a product. If you are duped by Tony the Tiger or by Dan the Developer, then that is your own naïveté.
-likewise, a render is not meant to be an accurate photograph of the future. It is as stated before, an ad for the product.

[ns_kid]

Ok, I am not shocked. Anyone else not shocked?


Your post is well said, lawsond.

The fact is, I'm not only not shocked, I've been surprised by how small the development looks. I find the towers short and squat relative to the base. No, I'm not one of those who thinks taller is always better. But in this instance, I believe the development would have benefited aesthetically from more height.

I'm sure Parcell and the Save the Friends of the Willow Tree Trust or whatever moniker they've adopted this week take great comfort in having something to be shocked and appalled about. But there was nothing in his blog or on Argyle Street that surprised me.

[Ziobrop]

Is it just me or did they put room for three little shops going down prince street?
http://novacentre.ca/sites/default/files/market-after.jpg

Just you. Those are fire escapes from the convention level

[curnhalio]

The fact is, I'm not only not shocked, I've been surprised by how small the development looks. I find the towers short and squat relative to the base. No, I'm not one of those who thinks taller is always better. But in this instance, I believe the development would have benefited aesthetically from more height.

I agree. It's going to be barely noticeable from the main skyline shots taken from Downtown Dartmouth.

[counterfactual]

They may be evident to someone really spending time doing a detailed analysis of the imagery. But they are not clinical drawings. They are not accurate rendering in a real scene.

Consider: an oil painting may accurately describe, say, a battle. Not because it accurately captures any 1/60th of a second from any possible view, but because it tells an accurate story. Things not happening in the same moment happen in the painting, impossible views are presented; it literally paints a picture invoking emotion and knowlage, not a moment in time.

Photographs, even absent photoshop, can be posed, lit, framed, and cropped to invoke a very inaccurate story, if entirely an accurate capture of a scene when a shutter is open.

It is an artistic process, and one can do so honestly, and one can do so dishonestly.

The perspective shot in question from the POV of being in Neptune theater is a total lie. The hotel is twice as far away. The Centennial building is at least that far off. They are separated from the subject building not by tiny urban streets, but by wide pedestrian malls.

Not showing the surrounding buildings would be inaccurate, but not evil; indeed, the view is of the new building and necessary. But the creator of that went out of their way to show the buildings and streetscape *wrong*.

While I don't think there should be a penny of government money in the project until they pay first months rent, I don't see the building itself as a problem. I don't see the redesign of Market as anything more than a trivial detail on a bazillion dollar project.

That the process involves renderings which are some of the worst cases of lies we have seen recently is a major issue, and one worth talking about.

Consider me nonplussed by their complaints. Completely and totally nonplussed.

[portapetey]

The fact is, I'm not only not shocked, I've been surprised by how small the development looks. I find the towers short and squat relative to the base. No, I'm not one of those who thinks taller is always better. But in this instance, I believe the development would have benefited aesthetically from more height.




I think plenty of people, including some commenters here, are a bit surprised by how "looming" it is over Argyle St. precisely because, as you point out, it is so squat and wide. Narrower towers with some space between, taller or not, would have looked better. But I agree, calling it shockingly huge is just dramatics.

[Jonovision]

http://40.media.tumblr.com/3a8cd7f130a1dfa6914ca7da87abe4ca/tumblr_o5l6tlr2yX1sk8kjeo4_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/dcdbfd20254f57d2042828a47bd03aa3/tumblr_o5l6tlr2yX1sk8kjeo2_1280.jpg

http://36.media.tumblr.com/5de694b15f34b989bcca1211bdeef6d0/tumblr_o5l6tlr2yX1sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/cfbf84d3dd1063b46709399bc94ea0d0/tumblr_o5l6tlr2yX1sk8kjeo3_1280.jpg

[Shift]

Some angles of this building look very similar to Central City in Surrey, BC (built in 2003).

http://www.surrey.ca/images/cos-master/pageImages/Central_City_Tower_Surrey_BC_Web.jpg

[kph06]

I took this last night:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1590/26415183796_9095678f71_b.jpg

[portapetey]

I took this last night:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1590/26415183796_9095678f71_b.jpg

Very nice pic. Last night's sky was really cool.

[bluenoser]

From Haligonia's facebook / instagram feed: https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12983848_10154223202607033_5719269847063632576_o.jpg
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12983848_10154223202607033_5719269847063632576_o.jpg

[someone123]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgfLJPSWcAEergG.jpg:large
Source (https://twitter.com/am_percival/media)

[hokus83]

LOL what an ugly ugly looking city from an overhead view/ Must be the real reason for high limits and the rest is just a cover up

[counterfactual]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgfLJPSWcAEergG.jpg:large
Source (https://twitter.com/am_percival/media)

Yeah the ramparts and height limits really lead to long, flat, blockish, squat, and inelegant developments in this area. A few genuine skyscrapers would make a world of difference.

[musicman]

That damn data center disapearing would make a huge difference....

[teddifax]

Is that Data Centre eyesore going?

[kph06]

Is that Data Centre eyesore going?

The Lawen family bought it a couples years ago, I think there is still a long term lease, so it will be around for the next few years presumably.

[musicman]

From what i understand it has about 5 years to go... Which is about 4 years and 11 months too long...

[counterfactual]

From what i understand it has about 5 years to go... Which is about 4 years and 11 months too long...

It basically killed an entire block.

[Jonovision]

New phone and new camera.

https://41.media.tumblr.com/5898b345f925c407d22864eb8d1fea7d/tumblr_o65m41TRmj1sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

https://41.media.tumblr.com/670d154e1e0d8a5c62864fe827e93059/tumblr_o65m41TRmj1sk8kjeo2_1280.jpg

[Phalanx]

Figured this fit here better than elsewhere:

Regional council unanimously approves Argyle, Spring Garden streetscaping plan (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1359895-regional-council-unanimously-approves-argyle-spring-garden-streetscaping-plan)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Figured this fit here better than elsewhere:

Regional council unanimously approves Argyle, Spring Garden streetscaping plan (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1359895-regional-council-unanimously-approves-argyle-spring-garden-streetscaping-plan)

Not a bad idea overall, though I do question whether paver stones will hold up well to vehicle traffic and road salt over the years, especially if Spring Garden continues to see heavy bus traffic.

Burying the power lines will be an improvement, though.

[Keith P.]

Not a bad idea overall, though I do question whether paver stones will hold up well to vehicle traffic and road salt over the years, especially if Spring Garden continues to see heavy bus traffic.



Yes, I am guessing everyone who was at City Hall in the early '80s has now departed and does not remember the last failed experiment. The city went through an ill-advised phase of installing brick sidewalks and crosswalks that soon became known as "ankle-benders" once they heaved and became irregular on the surface. Many pedestrians were victims and some suffered injury. The city ended up having to tear them all out eventually and replaced many with exposed-aggregate concrete instead.

[teddifax]

I had a bad tumble many years ago on a brick portion of the sidewalk on Barrington St. My foot went into a spot without a brick and I caught my foot and went down hard. Bricks definitely do not work in our climate.

[Jonovision]

An interesting view that is only available when the trees are bare.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/26727631752_03f794cf29_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GHQ6K7)20160502_165425 (https://flic.kr/p/GHQ6K7) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[RoshanMcG]

http://i65.tinypic.com/35jx8hh.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/29d6z28.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/rk5wr4.jpg

[Keith P.]

http://i65.tinypic.com/35jx8hh.jpg



Interesting that the Midtown proposal several years ago was quashed because it blocked the view from the Citadel.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll229/keith_p/Midtown-4.jpg

Hmmm.

[OldDartmouthMark]

That sucker is visible from everywhere...

http://i.imgur.com/XNVRcYQ.jpg

[counterfactual]

Figured this fit here better than elsewhere:

Regional council unanimously approves Argyle, Spring Garden streetscaping plan (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1359895-regional-council-unanimously-approves-argyle-spring-garden-streetscaping-plan)

This is awesome.

And: I'm shocked. Unanimous?

Normally at least Gloria McCluelessly or Barry DullandRumpled would dissent or veto, complaining that Dartmouth or Sheet Harbour don't receive the same funding/attention.

What happened?

EDIT My bad. Just read. It was David Hendsbee who raised the inevitable complaint:

Coun. David Hendsbee, who did support the motion, noted that other areas also need improvements. “What about the other areas of the municipality wanting to see improvements? Rural communities are looking for assistance,” he said, suggesting that this adds to the urban/rural divide.

“Where’s the justice?”

Where's the "justice"? :haha:

At least he voted for it...

[RangerNS]

Interesting that the Midtown proposal several years ago was quashed because it blocked the view from the Citadel.

Hmmm.


There are extremely specific view planes which matter: http://buildyourcentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/VIEW-PLANE-MAP-V2-01_s.jpg (not that they aren't all bullshit, but meh)

[counterfactual]

There are extremely specific view planes which matter: http://buildyourcentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/VIEW-PLANE-MAP-V2-01_s.jpg (not that they aren't all bullshit, but meh)

IMHO, we should only preserve View Planes 6 and 8 -- the ones to George's Island and the larger one pointing out to the harbour. Those are historically important ones, as they would preserve a view out the narrows, which was a strategic necessity. Seeing George's Island is also important.

The rest should be scrapped, particularly those directed over downtown-- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. All pointless.

And VP 8 should also be narrowed, maybe even cut in half, with only the right half retained.

[RoshanMcG]

I've never quite understood why the viewplane towards George's Island (VP 6) is taken from inside the Citadel, as opposed to the viewing area where VPs 1, 3, and 5 are from.

[musicman]

It is taken from that point because it is where the signalling mast is that they used historically to comunicate with george's island..

[RoshanMcG]

Someone posted a link to a video on the Queen's Marque thread showing the Tall Ship arriving in Halifax the other day and there was a still which showed the Nova Centre and the Halifax skyline quite nicely.

http://i64.tinypic.com/seq1bl.png

[Duff]

From today

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7184/27003915746_da1a4955bd_h.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7604/26763021670_43d8e80f06_h.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7381/26763025470_b41a65187b_h.jpg

[someone123]

Thanks for the photos. I've yet to see it in person but judging from these shots the glass looks great to me.

A few people have commented that the buildings look very heavy but that effect will probably diminish considerably when the cladding is complete.

[danielmacdonald]

Photo of the Nova Centre from the corner of Argyle Street and Prince Street taken at 11 AM on an overcast morning.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielmacdonald/27039511865/

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7580/27039511865_1b098db16f_b.jpg

[fenwick16]

Great picture danielmacdonald.

Also thanks to Duff for his great perspectives.

[Aya_Akai]

Photo of the Nova Centre from the corner of Argyle Street and Prince Street taken at 11 AM on an overcast morning.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielmacdonald/27039511865/

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7580/27039511865_1b098db16f_b.jpg

it looks like they're trying out which colours are going to work better for the BMO logo on the corner closest to the camera in that shot :P

[OldDartmouthMark]

Here it is looking somewhat ghost-like in the fog...

http://i.imgur.com/J5WFvoM.jpg

[Drybrain]

Thanks for the photos. I've yet to see it in person but judging from these shots the glass looks great to me.

A few people have commented that the buildings look very heavy but that effect will probably diminish considerably when the cladding is complete.

Yeah, I find it a bit heavy and looming from certain angles, especially Argyle and Prince. And I'm definitely hoping the Argyle facade is street-friendly. I have other quibbles too, like the cross-hatched glass tints (looks a bit 80s).

But overall I really don't get the intense criticism it's come in for. It's got a great profile, and while it's striking in terms of scale, I feel like we'll all get used to it pretty quickly...

[OldDartmouthMark]

"Grafton Street"

http://i.imgur.com/shKuUlw.jpg

[eastcoastal]

It is taken from that point because it is where the signalling mast is that they used historically to comunicate with george's island..

Good to know - thanks for posting. Is there a document somewhere that describes the significance of each of the viewplanes, or is that info kept locked in the basement of the Khyber building?

[RangerNS]

Good to know - thanks for posting. Is there a document somewhere that describes the significance of each of the viewplanes, or is that info kept locked in the basement of the Khyber building?

I can't even find a PDF of "Map Number TT-17-20158A" that the LUB's reference.

I don't suspect the rational would be encoded there; if you really wanted to know, you'd have to read through the transcripts of meetings in'74 (or earlier, the map was created in '74 but may be based on earlier works).

[q12]

Via Twitter CTV Atlantic's Ron Shaw: https://twitter.com/RonShawCTV

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwJ6uwWsAA-Dry.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwJ-8_WgAABxst.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwKLzgWsAAW6bn.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwNB1oWkAAoSkj.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwRAZKWkAEprmp.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwRSnWWsAEDDDJ.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwJ2W2W0AQEcQ8.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwJtTiWUAImZiL.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwJkjjXIAYRXyy.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwBYz5WkAEtDu-.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwArQoXEAAEKTY.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiwANnMWkAA-VR6.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Civ-g5MXEAA103g.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Civ-PxNWYAAqG7n.jpg:large

[TheGreenBastard]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-convention-centre-tour-ramia-1.3587708

[Jonovision]

An updated timelapse was included in their latest newsletter as well as a video of the site tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2NQfI9O2U&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jxATQwVhFU

[TheGreenBastard]

An updated timelapse was included in their latest newsletter as well as a video of the site tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2NQfI9O2U&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jxATQwVhFU

Was the tour video filmed on a toaster? Very cringe-y over all.

[someone123]

Apparently the office space in this development is mostly leased out already. BMO is a known tenant but there are others that will be new to the city. They have also hit their target for booking conferences in 2017.

I'm sure Tim Bousquet, the Paceys, etc. will publicly admit that their predictions were wrong if the Nova Centre does turn out to be successful.

[Ziobrop]

Was the tour video filmed on a toaster? Very cringe-y over all.

Belive it was periscope - which is a phone based livestreaming App.

[Ziobrop]

FWIW, though i havent posted much on here - i am still providing regular updates at http://novacenter.builthalifax.ca/

[curnhalio]

FWIW, though i havent posted much on here - i am still providing regular updates at http://novacenter.builthalifax.ca/

Thank you for your work. The interior shots are really cool.

[teddifax]

http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/scott-ferguson-resigns-as-halifax-trade-centre-ceo-accepts-job-in-nyc-1.2914548

This just in, Scott Ferguson is leaving TCL for New York.

[eastcoastal]

Hope the lighting in the covered portion of Grafton is good. It's looking pretty cave-like.

[Hali87]

Shared street concepts for Argyle and Grafton:

aidrPyG3toE

[Dmajackson]

^Lol to the cop car sitting outside of the Toothy Moose.

But seriously it looks good and I'm excited to see the results!

[someone123]

I used to think of streetscaping as a kind of window dressing but after seeing a bunch of similar streets with good or bad streetscaping I think it's a very important factor in establishing vibrant pedestrian-oriented districts, and an area where Halifax has fallen far behind other cities, particularly European cities.

The Barrington and Spring Garden streetscapes have been debated for at least a decade or more, so it's nice to see something happening here.

Traffic issues are often brought up but I think they are a red herring on these busy commercial streets. It does not make sense to try to push tons of traffic through an area with lots of pedestrians and crossings. Higher speeds along a 1 km stretch of Barrington also make very little difference for vehicle travel times. Delivery vehicles and access are important but that is a different concern from making sure there are lots of wide lanes for cars, and it looks like they've made allowances for those uses in the Argyle plans.

Parking's another one where saving a few meters here and there isn't worth the trouble. The bread and butter for parking is the garages. Businesses that rely on people being able to drive up to them quickly, park, walk in, and leave, probably shouldn't be located in the bowels of downtown.

This is all tied to wider questions about transportation though that the city has failed to answer. How are the trucks going to be removed from downtown streets? How is transit going to be improved so that the urban core can get by with less reliance on private vehicles?

[scryer]

Parking's another one where saving a few meters here and there isn't worth the trouble. The bread and butter for parking is the garages. Businesses that rely on people being able to drive up to them quickly, park, walk in, and leave, probably shouldn't be located in the bowels of downtown.

This is all tied to wider questions about transportation though that the city has failed to answer. How are the trucks going to be removed from downtown streets? How is transit going to be improved so that the urban core can get by with less reliance on private vehicles?

Well that's urban revitalization for ya! As your downtown develops, residents and businesses are going to demand stronger infrastructure to support it. Afterall a symptom of bad urban planning is more traffic and roads. I think that this streetscaping project will be a healthy push for a more transit-oriented Halifax, if that's what you're going for.

[terrynorthend]

^Lol to the cop car sitting outside of the Toothy Moose.

But seriously it looks good and I'm excited to see the results!

That's a neat model of Halifax.

I'd like to see more of the overhead light strings.

[terrynorthend]

I used to think of streetscaping as a kind of window dressing but after seeing a bunch of similar streets with good or bad streetscaping I think it's a very important factor in establishing vibrant pedestrian-oriented districts, and an area where Halifax has fallen far behind other cities, particularly European cities.
Delivery vehicles and access are important but that is a different concern from making sure there are lots of wide lanes for cars, and it looks like they've made allowances for those uses in the Argyle plans.



These streets could work very much like the waterfront docks and wharves. Pedestrian priority, but authorized vehicles are allowed. They just drive slowly and carefully and yield the ROW.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Reflections of the old in the new:

http://i.imgur.com/ks15f60.jpg

Impressions after spending some time on Argyle Street:

- When the construction fence is removed, the street seems like it will be pretty wide compared to my initial impressions of it. The remake of the street should result in a nice space overall.

- Can't remember what it was like when the Chronicle Herald building was there, but the entire strip of Argyle is now shaded from the mid to late afternoon sun. Kind of a downer for sun worshippers who enjoyed the outdoor patios - on the plus side, it will be better for those who prefer to limit their UV exposure.

- I am a little worried that the Nova Centre side might create a bit of a dead zone if it's mostly occupied by BMO. I can't help but think what a nice street it would be if it had similar entertainment/restaurant venues on both sides of that stretch of road.

Oh well, we're fully committed now, so it will be what it will be...

[Keith P.]

Impressions after spending some time on Argyle Street:

- When the construction fence is removed, the street seems like it will be pretty wide compared to my initial impressions of it. The remake of the street should result in a nice space overall.

- Can't remember what it was like when the Chronicle Herald building was there, but the entire strip of Argyle is now shaded from the mid to late afternoon sun. Kind of a downer for sun worshippers who enjoyed the outdoor patios - on the plus side, it will be better for those who prefer to limit their UV exposure.

The patios were always shaded from mid to late afternoon onwards even before.

- I am a little worried that the Nova Centre side might create a bit of a dead zone if it's mostly occupied by BMO. I can't help but think what a nice street it would be if it had similar entertainment/restaurant venues on both sides of that stretch of road.

Oh well, we're fully committed now, so it will be what it will be...

The Herald building was a virtual dead zone except for the reporters who would go across the street to drink. There was zero commercial traffic on that side and there was a garage entrance there as well that was used for trucks when the printing was still done there. It was a dismal block on the west side of the street. This cannot be any worse.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The patios were always shaded from mid to late afternoon onwards even before.

Thanks!



The Herald building was a virtual dead zone except for the reporters who would go across the street to drink. There was zero commercial traffic on that side and there was a garage entrance there as well that was used for trucks when the printing was still done there. It was a dismal block on the west side of the street. This cannot be any worse.

I agree with your last sentence, but ask the question: "shouldn't we be striving to be better?".

That said, it will likely be better, but for such a substantial investment my expectations would be to knock it out of the park. Plus... substantial portions of the east-west streets appear that they will have little curb-appeal, or at least that's my impression from seeing it firsthand.

:2cents:

[teddifax]

I thought that the bar/restaurant area of Argyle St. would be expanded with the Nova Centre and that there would be bars at the base of this as well.... Is this not to be the case?

[OldDartmouthMark]

I thought that the bar/restaurant area of Argyle St. would be expanded with the Nova Centre and that there would be bars at the base of this as well.... Is this not to be the case?

I'm hoping it to be the case. I didn't think it obvious when looking at the rendering used for the BMO announcement, but its purpose is to be highlighting the BMO aspects rather than how it relates at street level. So maybe not the best picture to go by.

http://www.metronews.ca/content/dam/thestar/uploads/2015/10/23/2-bmo-tower-at-nova-centre-0.jpg

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/2015/10/23/nova-centre-in-halifax-announces-bmo-as-anchor-tenant.html

However, looking at the video posted by Hali87 above there appears to be a number of generic-looking shop fronts which likely will be personalized when occupied. Probably much ado about nothing on my part, just verbalizing the thoughts that were going through my mind as I was recently sipping a drink on Argyle pondering the future of the street... :cheers:

[teddifax]

Is there any rendering showing what the Grafton Streetscape of the Nova Centre will look like? I have seen a picture or two, but it would've been nice to see this included in the video released a few days ago, showing Grafton and Argyle streets being redone.

[someone123]

Here are some floor plans: http://www.halifaxconventioncentre.com/facility

The Argyle Street level has two large retail spaces. The site also mentions that there will be retail/restaurant space fronting onto the covered part of Grafton Street, which is probably needed to keep it feeling lively.

The Herald building really wasn't great and I have a hard time imagining the Nova Centre being anything but an enormous improvement. Most of the Argyle Street frontage of the Herald was a blank concrete wall. The employees did frequent nearby businesses but there are going to be a lot more people in the Nova Centre.

I think the Nova Centre will have a transformative effect on the area similar to the library. There's just going to be a lot more people around and there will be a lot more stuff to see and do in this part of town. The Grafton-Argyle area was already pretty decent, with the exception of the giant pit for the convention centre. It's one of the nicer entertainment type districts I've seen outside of a large city or tourist town.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The Grafton-Argyle area was already pretty decent, with the exception of the giant pit for the convention centre. It's one of the nicer entertainment type districts I've seen outside of a large city or tourist town.

Heh-heh... your avatar is proof of your feelings! :)

I think you're right in your assertions, however I thought that I had read somewhere that the north section of the NC on Argyle was going to be taken up by a BMO branch, but perhaps I was mistaken. :shrug:

[someone123]

I think you're right in your assertions, however I thought that I had read somewhere that the north section of the NC on Argyle was going to be taken up by a BMO branch, but perhaps I was mistaken. :shrug:

I was figured that was one of the two retail spots. I could see the second one going to a Cactus Club type place. Not sure if one or both of those spaces will have Grafton entrances.

It looks like Market doesn't have anything but I'm not sure that's a huge loss.

[teddifax]

There still hasn't been any mention of connection to the Downtown pedway system. I feel this is extremely important to have this done. Is there anything being done on this?

[worldlyhaligonian]

I feel like there is a selective memory about the time when it was the Herald building on this site.

To confirm: It was absolutely terrible... and all the patios were in the shade. It was like the pit before the Nova Centre... except an eyesore and completely dead zone.

Furthermore, the western site was like the current "twisted sisters" site.

Its probably the ideal situation for both lots.