[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[sdm]

hey SDM, how exactly does the cogswell proposal violate HRM by design?

Its an area suggested by HRM by Design for maximum height buildings, i believe around 25 stories.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Its an area suggested by HRM by Design for maximum height buildings, i believe around 25 stories.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking... the convention centre proposal is too short for cogswell lands.

[worldlyhaligonian]

worldlyhaligonian...they already had renderings for the herald lands all set to go before a request for convention center proposals was made. If the original mix-use development had proceeded they would have already been in the approval process stage...so in other words...this convention center is going to take much longer to complete and therefore your Ugly lots will be around that much longer. So i guess you are the one that is "out of your mind" because YOU are the one who wants these Lot's around for a longer amount of time...ohhh and the original proposal had a couple of towers to so that segment of your argument is void...also if your looking for a perfect opportunity to develop the interchange as a whole....THIS IS IT

But the fact that this is a WTCC proposal for the Herald site means that it will be more easily passed. I would put money on the fact that these old renderings of towers you speak of would be shot down by both council and HT (ie mid-town proposal). They will be more people in support of a quasi-public use instead of a proposal directly from a developer. Think about it... this will have the official backing of all levels of government.

THIS ISN'T IT...

I'm not out of my mind at all... this is the worst idea for the interchange aside from a stadium. Think about what you are saying. The financing for the infrastructure changes would be massive. I would much rather see public money go towards the library and other more important issues in the short term. I don't believe for a second that a private developer would be able to demolish even a small part of Cogswell, change the street layout and then build with any sort of reasonable timeframe or cost. That is why its being rejected. From what I remember, Hardiman stated a 2012 finish date. LOL, they would have to break ground today.

Cogswell should be for high quality, tall towers in the future... to define a modern CBD over the next 20 years.

Why are you against the Herald site? Don't you own a pub that is closer to the Herald site than Cogswell? I think you fail to grasp how big Cogswell is. Would you prefer low density, low height in the only downtown area where tall buildings will be allowed? Now that doesn't make much sense now does it.

[pnightingale]

The Cogswell Interchange was on Kelley's list of "shovel ready" projects that they asked for funding for. Not that "shovel ready" really means anything, but the city seems to be serious about tearing it down. Didn't they do a study on it a while back and determine that it would be more costly to do the required preventative maintenance on it than it would to just tear it down?

I'd love to see the interchange gone, but I don't know if it will happen until there is some plan for using the land. I think the convention centre would have been an excellent place to start.

[worldlyhaligonian]

The Cogswell Interchange was on Kelley's list of "shovel ready" projects that they asked for funding for. Not that "shovel ready" really means anything, but the city seems to be serious about tearing it down. Didn't they do a study on it a while back and determine that it would be more costly to do the required preventative maintenance on it than it would to just tear it down?

I'd love to see the interchange gone, but I don't know if it will happen until there is some plan for using the land. I think the convention centre would have been an excellent place to start.

No, the plan has been 8-10 years for its removal. I want to see the interchange gone too, however I want to see landmark developments replace it. I doubt the convention centre proposal has appropriate height.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would prefer skyscrapers there. I thought this was a forum about skyscrapers.

[Jonovision]

If the convention centre was put on the Cogswell lands, why couldn't it have high quality tall buildings incorporated into it? There are some very interesting high quality convention centres going up all over the world. I don't see why we can't have one, and why we couldn't have tall buildings as part of it. Yes, they need lots of column-less space, but I'm sure todays architects and engineers can come up with something.

[worldlyhaligonian]

If the convention centre was put on the Cogswell lands, why couldn't it have high quality tall buildings incorporated into it? There are some very interesting high quality convention centres going up all over the world. I don't see why we can't have one, and why we couldn't have tall buildings as part of it. Yes, they need lots of column-less space, but I'm sure todays architects and engineers can come up with something.

Yeah, you are totally right. However, I'll bet you that the proposal we are discussing won't be 20-25 stories and will have a huge footprint. A monolith replacing a monolith. I guess the jury is out until we see a rendering.

I'm not against it if it is tall and whatnot, I just really doubt that is what they will be going for. The Herald lands are quite elongated and would suit a big convention style space. It would be huge for all of the exisiting business in that area (hotel, bar, and restaurant) that really need it.

Lastly, I would love to see a 13 and a 17 story tower on the Herald lands mainly because I doubt it would be passed unless pitched as a convention centre.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

I think you guys are out of your mind if you would rather have the herald lots look like they do right now.


I don't want the Herald lands to stay as is, but that is no reason to approve a poor development. This convention centre will be there for a long time and is going to be a very large footprint building. If it turns out poorly it's a tough mistake to recover from. Parking lots can always be turned into something better. I would much rather wait five years and let downtown idle than see poor projects destroy any chance of a proper recovery.

The biggest problem I have with the Herald site is it will require the consolidation of two blocks. That is definetly going against the spirit of HRMbyDesign and most urban design thinking. I'm almost positive block consolidation would also be against the actual design guidelines of HRMbyDesign. As SDM has pointed out the height limit HRMbyDesign is proposing for these blocks is around 9 stories and various reports have put the towers above that height - in the 12 to 15 storey range. It wouldn't shock me if HRMbyDesign's final recommendations are changed to reflect this development. There are also restrictions on heights within a certain radius of the Citadel (within four blocks I believe) that may also be an issue regardless of what HRMbyDesign decides. Citadel viewplane and associated height restrictions will still be in place after HRMbyDesign is approved - changing these is not even on the political agenda or part of the design study.

The height limits for Cogswell are just that - height limits. This building does not contradict HRMbyDesign because it is too short. We have a chance to demolish the interchange and put a potentially good development in its place - why are we passing that up for a questionable location? I have two thoughts, speculation but I think they are plausible.

1) Kelly and Rodney are not urban planners or designers and fail to see the limitations and downsides to the Herald site. Also since neither have been active participants in the HRMbyDesign process they don't understand that the design study is proposing a framework for how Cogswell should be redeveloped, not a set in stone masterplan. Since the convention centre doesn't quite match HRMbyDesign's drawings and maps for the area our fearless leaders feel it is contradictary to the urban design study. Since the Argyle site has no 'plan' or renderings from HRMbyDesign it's harder to see that it contradicts the principles of the study.

2) Argyle is easier. You don't have to tear down the interchange, which is something that City Hall seems very reluctant to do for a myriad of reasons which I don't really understand. Argyle can also get done quicker. I have a funny feeling Rodney's continued unpopularity is pushing him to do something fast to show he loves Halifax. Unfortunately he doesn't really understand it takes more than big towers and flashy projects to make a city work.

I'm glad to hear it is not going to be a straight up blank walled, huge footprint, flat out convention centre and office tower combo. That would be a bad thing for an area that has a lot of potential, especially along Argyle for some neat retail, mixed use and entertainment. Given the nature of the proposal I'm still skeptical this project can turn out well, but it might be less of a disaster than I originally thought.

And again - why is there NO public process what so ever for what will likely be the most significant project to happend downtown in a decade?

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Lastly, I would love to see a 13 and a 17 story tower on the Herald lands mainly because I doubt it would be passed unless pitched as a convention centre.

That may be true from council's perspective, however, I think discussing that kind of height on these properties is playing with fire, given the Midtown ruling. The Heritage Trust is quite litigious but rarely wins a case. Since they won a ruling in that location, with similar heights I would be shocked if they didn't pursue the case.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I don't want the Herald lands to stay as is, but that is no reason to approve a poor development. This convention centre will be there for a long time and is going to be a very large footprint building. If it turns out poorly it's a tough mistake to recover from. Parking lots can always be turned into something better. I would much rather wait five years and let downtown idle than see poor projects destroy any chance of a proper recovery.

The biggest problem I have with the Herald site is it will require the consolidation of two blocks. That is definetly going against the spirit of HRMbyDesign and most urban design thinking. I'm almost positive block consolidation would also be against the actual design guidelines of HRMbyDesign. As SDM has pointed out the height limit HRMbyDesign is proposing for these blocks is around 9 stories and various reports have put the towers above that height - in the 12 to 15 storey range. It wouldn't shock me if HRMbyDesign's final recommendations are changed to reflect this development. There are also restrictions on heights within a certain radius of the Citadel (within four blocks I believe) that may also be an issue regardless of what HRMbyDesign decides. Citadel viewplane and associated height restrictions will still be in place after HRMbyDesign is approved - changing these is not even on the political agenda or part of the design study.

The height limits for Cogswell are just that - height limits. This building does not contradict HRMbyDesign because it is too short. We have a chance to demolish the interchange and put a potentially good development in its place - why are we passing that up for a questionable location? I have two thoughts, speculation but I think they are plausible.

1) Kelly and Rodney are not urban planners or designers and fail to see the limitations and downsides to the Herald site. Also since neither have been active participants in the HRMbyDesign process they don't understand that the design study is proposing a framework for how Cogswell should be redeveloped, not a set in stone masterplan. Since the convention centre doesn't quite match HRMbyDesign's drawings and maps for the area our fearless leaders feel it is contradictary to the urban design study. Since the Argyle site has no 'plan' or renderings from HRMbyDesign it's harder to see that it contradicts the principles of the study.

2) Argyle is easier. You don't have to tear down the interchange, which is something that City Hall seems very reluctant to do for a myriad of reasons which I don't really understand. Argyle can also get done quicker. I have a funny feeling Rodney's continued unpopularity is pushing him to do something fast to show he loves Halifax. Unfortunately he doesn't really understand it takes more than big towers and flashy projects to make a city work.

I'm glad to hear it is not going to be a straight up blank walled, huge footprint, flat out convention centre and office tower combo. That would be a bad thing for an area that has a lot of potential, especially along Argyle for some neat retail, mixed use and entertainment. Given the nature of the proposal I'm still skeptical this project can turn out well, but it might be less of a disaster than I originally thought.

And again - why is there NO public process what so ever for what will likely be the most significant project to happend downtown in a decade?

This will definitely not be the most significant project to happen downtown in a decade... International Place, UG, or even Trinity are more important and already approved.

The public process IS the problem with development in Halifax. Groups like the Heritage Trust have stalled EVERY major development in the city. Sometimes too much democracy goes too far. For example, council was receiving anti-development e-mails after input deadlines and practically had a whole meeting on that subject of what they should do with these invalid suggestions alone. The HT has had a smear campaign against almost every development I can think of. Developers get screwed financially, but the other groups don't feel as though they have to play by the rules and have alot less at stake. For once, I wish that we could have some development HAPPEN downtown.

HRM by Design is bullshit anyway and won't act as a bandaid solution. Kelly and Rodney aren't urban planners or even leaders, but where have the urban planners of Halifax ever got us? Especially when council never understands what staff planners are talking about. Ultimately urban planning is subjective. Some individuals in Halifax would hate New York, Montreal, etc. I love those cities and I hate to say it, but they are much more vibrant than Halifax for reasons directly related to their levels of development. I find it hard to be proud of Halifax when it isn't giving me anything to be proud of.

Kelly and Rodney are not leaders in any sense of the word, but I think that in this case action is required to allow for this development. And yes, Argyle is easier, and I'm not worried about the blocks being consolidated. I haven't seen the renderings yet, but my opinion could change.

"Unfortunately he doesn't really understand it takes more than big towers and flashy projects to make a city work."

That is the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life. We're talking about downtown development here. What do you want? Cambridge Suites? Nice towers and flashy projects have seemingly improved every city in the world I have visited.

[someone123]

I personally believe this is happening for all the wrong reasons, primarily because the Argyle site is simply easier, as mentioned. The block consolidation alone should raise major red flags with people and the fact that they don't say much to address that issue is very telling. If the development fails on that front then it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to imagine that it would have a relatively poor street presence in general, although I guess I'll reserve my judgement on that front. Still, if that's the case, it would be a real shame.

The only big mitigating factor I see here are the two towers on top. Those definitely are much better than just having a convention centre, but they will also be the most controversial part of this proposal.

Sadly, I also believe that without the impetus of a major public project it will take forever to get rid of the interchange. The city is not proactive with anything. If they need to land for a convention centre they will slowly get it done. If they don't, they won't. They're mostly lazy suburban career politicians and they don't take risks for the betterment of the city.

Do higher level politicians ever actually listen to experts in the areas of planning and urban design? Principles like those in HRM by Design seem to go out the window whenever they require any kind of sacrifice whatsoever.

[hfx_chris]

How does that conflict with HRM by Design?

How does the Cogswell street area conflict with HRM by design?

That's what I meant when I asked that question. I know the Herald site is limited to 6 stories.

[Keith P.]

I suspect this was mostly a politician-driven decision. I say that because my source was a staffer who was blindsided by this announcement. I suspect that the availability of federal money in the budget lit a fire under Rodney and the mayor and they short-circuited the staff process to pick this because it was quicker and seemed less complicated than the Cogswell site. Planners, the public, and other interest groups were obviously not consulted.

I'm not heartbroken because Ramia's original plans for the site didn't seem to have a whole lot behind them. I do question why the public sector is sponsoring the construction of office towers, and one hopes that the quality of design is several steps above the usual low-bid government building.

There has been no discussion as to the fate of the current WTCC. While the quick answer would be that the site could be used for a new Metro Center, I don't see how the two could coexist during the arena construction phase.

[hfx_chris]

The old WTCC would make for some nice office space. The old MC could be demolished, and make way for... more lowrise buildings. Hmm..

[spaustin]

I don't want the Herald lands to stay as is, but that is no reason to approve a poor development. This convention centre will be there for a long time and is going to be a very large footprint building. If it turns out poorly it's a tough mistake to recover from. Parking lots can always be turned into something better. I would much rather wait five years and let downtown idle than see poor projects destroy any chance of a proper recovery.

The biggest problem I have with the Herald site is it will require the consolidation of two blocks. That is definetly going against the spirit of HRMbyDesign and most urban design thinking. I'm almost positive block consolidation would also be against the actual design guidelines of HRMbyDesign. As SDM has pointed out the height limit HRMbyDesign is proposing for these blocks is around 9 stories and various reports have put the towers above that height - in the 12 to 15 storey range. It wouldn't shock me if HRMbyDesign's final recommendations are changed to reflect this development. There are also restrictions on heights within a certain radius of the Citadel (within four blocks I believe) that may also be an issue regardless of what HRMbyDesign decides. Citadel viewplane and associated height restrictions will still be in place after HRMbyDesign is approved - changing these is not even on the political agenda or part of the design study.

The height limits for Cogswell are just that - height limits. This building does not contradict HRMbyDesign because it is too short. We have a chance to demolish the interchange and put a potentially good development in its place - why are we passing that up for a questionable location? I have two thoughts, speculation but I think they are plausible.

1) Kelly and Rodney are not urban planners or designers and fail to see the limitations and downsides to the Herald site. Also since neither have been active participants in the HRMbyDesign process they don't understand that the design study is proposing a framework for how Cogswell should be redeveloped, not a set in stone masterplan. Since the convention centre doesn't quite match HRMbyDesign's drawings and maps for the area our fearless leaders feel it is contradictary to the urban design study. Since the Argyle site has no 'plan' or renderings from HRMbyDesign it's harder to see that it contradicts the principles of the study.

2) Argyle is easier. You don't have to tear down the interchange, which is something that City Hall seems very reluctant to do for a myriad of reasons which I don't really understand. Argyle can also get done quicker. I have a funny feeling Rodney's continued unpopularity is pushing him to do something fast to show he loves Halifax. Unfortunately he doesn't really understand it takes more than big towers and flashy projects to make a city work.

I'm glad to hear it is not going to be a straight up blank walled, huge footprint, flat out convention centre and office tower combo. That would be a bad thing for an area that has a lot of potential, especially along Argyle for some neat retail, mixed use and entertainment. Given the nature of the proposal I'm still skeptical this project can turn out well, but it might be less of a disaster than I originally thought.

And again - why is there NO public process what so ever for what will likely be the most significant project to happend downtown in a decade?

Very well said. If there is a poor streetscape it'll be a real lost opportunity to really advance Argyle and build on what's already there. Wiping out Grafton Street would be a huge mistake. There is stuff happening at either end of Grafton. With something in the middle it could quickly become a great street and then we would have Barrington, Argyle and Grafton all linking up to Spring Garden. That would be a lively district, instead of just two lively streets as it is now. My other big concern is the nature of use. Unless they really incorporate a lot of other things into the place (office, hotel, residential shops etc) and design it well, the building will be either full of people or empty with little in between. Basically it'll be just like the current Metro Centre and Convention Centre except it'll take up more land. These types of buildings are important to have downtown since they sell the city and bring people in, but they should be a few blocks apart (like down at the Cogswell or Pier 21) to lessen the completely full or completely empty effect. You need daily use to sustain a neighbourhood and bring in businesses that are actual draws. Given the federal money is about to flow, the chance to tear down the Cogswell, put the Convention Centre on the water and save the Hearld Lands for something more appropriate to the area is a real missed opportunity, and one that's, sadly, not surprising given our current weak-kneed and lackluster provincial and municipal leaders.

[terrynorthend]

Argyle is a tough street to front a convention centre especially one with 3 times the capacity of the current WTCC. I was lunching at the Shoeshop today and watched cars trying to drive down that narrow strip. Access is even worse on that block than the current block in front of city hall. At least the current WTCC has Grand Parade across from it, opening up the vista a bit. It just seems to me that this new place will feel very claustrophobic from streetfront.

[reddog794]

The MC, WTCC foot print is awfully large, almost large enough to put a 20,000 arena...

[worldlyhaligonian]

Exactly what I want to happen, Metro Centre expansion and the convention centre near by on the Herald lands, a much more cost effective solution.

I know alot of you disagree with me, but I think it will be done properly. I think it would take years to even get things prepared on the Cogswell site. I'm not looking for a rushed solution, but I want people coming to a convention centre that is in the heart of downtown and near to the citadel, SGR, Metro Centre and numerous hotels and shops.

I think International Place needs to be built before we can think about Cogswell.

[Haliguy]

Exactly what I want to happen, Metro Centre expansion and the convention centre near by on the Herald lands, a much more cost effective solution.

I know alot of you disagree with me, but I think it will be done properly. I think it would take years to even get things prepared on the Cogswell site. I'm not looking for a rushed solution, but I want people coming to a convention centre that is in the heart of downtown and near to the citadel, SGR, Metro Centre and numerous hotels and shops.

I think International Place needs to be built before we can think about Cogswell.


I agree...

[worldlyhaligonian]

Also, it would be impossible for this new development to have worse street level that what is currently there... the herald building is not only empty, but has limited entrances/exits. They couldn't possibly build something that is worse than what is there. Imagine how vibrant the areas in and around citadel hill will be in the summer if there is a conference going on...

[hfx_chris]

The MC, WTCC foot print is awfully large, almost large enough to put a 20,000 arena...
Agreed, it would be a good location, keeping the business it generates in the same area. It would suck having to see the Mooseheads and other concerts at the Forum for a couple of years, but.. I guess it would be worth it in the end.
Then again, the Forum compared to most of the other QMJHL arenas is still a huge step up :P

[Takeo]

Also, it would be impossible for this new development to have worse street level that what is currently there... [snip]

"It couldn't be worse" is true... but not a very compelling argument. Why not do something great... or even half-decent... rather than simply "better than a concrete wall".

[Dmajackson]

Agreed, it would be a good location, keeping the business it generates in the same area. It would suck having to see the Mooseheads and other concerts at the Forum for a couple of years, but.. I guess it would be worth it in the end.
Then again, the Forum compared to most of the other QMJHL arenas is still a huge step up :P

I agree with you there :)

And with the arena on one side and the convention centre on the other some really cool restaurants/bars would open in the blocks between these places.

[worldlyhaligonian]

"It couldn't be worse" is true... but not a very compelling argument. Why not do something great... or even half-decent... rather than simply "better than a concrete wall".

Well I hope they can use alot of glass at ground level... and I agree its not a real argument... however filling those lots would make the whole area cohesive. It is one of the only major eyesores left (aside from the Texpark site, Clyde Street, and the Salter Street/Brewery Market) If we aren't going to get anything tall on the Clyde St. lots, this might be the only real chance to get something half-decent on these lands.

I'm all for Cogswell coming down in the future... I just hope we have a strong enough economic base so that real landmark developments can go in there.

[Takeo]

I heard on the radio this morning that the interchange is coming down. It sounded like they meant that it was happening soon... but I'm not sure since I was half away at 6 am. I checked the Herald website and it's now 6:18 am and they are still showing yesterday's paper?!?! I was awake enough to hear that Kelly wants public input as to what should replace it.

[Takeo]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1105507.html

Kelly is talking about starting public consultations about the removal of the interchange. I posted a copy/paste of the full article in another thread. Can help but wonder if the sudden desire to move froward on the Cogswell demolition has anything to do with the Convention Center proposals.

[hfx_chris]

Just regarding the Metro Centre, it's been mentioned here many a time before that the current MC was designed to be expanded at the ends... one suggestion here was to tear down the MC and build the new arena in the same place. Well why not just close the MC and do some extensive renovations for a year or two? Expand the upper bowl seating as originally designed, expand the concourses, or at least expand the east concourse, since the west concourse is kinda limited with Brunswick Street. Hell, there may even be an opportunity to expand the east and west upper bowls, and put in some proper skyboxes, which don't block half of the upper bowl seats. Then just do some major updating to the interior, new seating, new finishes, etc etc.
It would be tight, but if it was designed to be expanded... I don't know why it couldn't be now. And the money saved could be put toward a good medium-sized stadium.

[Dmajackson]

It would be tight, but if it was designed to be expanded... I don't know why it couldn't be now. And the money saved could be put toward a good medium-sized stadium.

They could put the money towards upgrades on the Forum Lands. I can see tht block becoming a major entertainment attraction for the North-End.

Personally I can see that block holding a medium-sized arena, tonnes of parking, some retail, maybe even some recreational facilities like a nice soccer/football field (which the peninsula lacks some of).

Every part of the peninsula needs an attraction. The South-End has SMU and PPP, Downtown has the Metro Centre and WTCC, the West-End has Dal and the Waeg, but there's nothing really notable in the North-End yet.

[Keith P.]

I was around when the MC opened and I do recall the discussion about how it was designed to be expanded. I believe -- but cannot confirm -- that the expansion was only for the north and south ends of the arena and it would involve giving those ends an upper level. The only way I can see that happening is not by having the existing upper bowls expanded to wrap either end, as there probably isn't enough space outside the existing walls for that -- certainly not on the south end and maybe not on the north either. But that doesn't mean you couldn't do something with an overhanging deck over the ends. That would mean the current private boxes at the south end would need to go. But it would not solve the problems created by the installation of the other private boxes (cramped aisles, poor flow of people) and the intrinsic problems of the current structure, such as overcrowded concourses, poor concessions, and tight seating.

What might be a better way to go would be to slice off the structure at the existing concourse level and go up. If you were to hang a full upper bowl over the existing lower bowl (essentially via a cantilever structure), that would allow you to also have new upper concourses. The existing cramped concourses and overcrowded concessions are the main drawback to the existing structure, so that problem gets solved. Plus as long as you built it high enough you could have a ring of private boxes that would not unduly obstruct views from the lower bowl. With the added capacity you could afford to install new seating in the lower bowl that would be a bit roomier, at least in seat width if not legroom. The drawback to this design might be a very high upper bowl. Plus I dunno how much cheaper all that would be than starting from scratch.

[hfx_chris]

More good ideas.
Leg room is my biggest problem with the current MC, it's always wickedly uncomfortable. Aside from that, I hardly ever leave my seat, so the concourses don't bother me, but I do know they get really overcrowded.

DJ, you say there's nothing really notable in the north end. I would say the Forum is quite notable, it may be an old building but it's quite functional. I mean lets face it, Halifax isn't going to have two MC-quality venues, not a city this size, so for what it is, the Forum is a great venue. Maybe a little cash to install some proper seating (hopefully the winter games money will do that). I mean, it's a better hockey venue than Cole Harbour Place, I would put it on par with the Sportsplex, albeit older. Plus the Forum has other parts too, common rooms, and the larger exhibition room where the flea market is held.

[Dmajackson]

DJ, you say there's nothing really notable in the north end. I would say the Forum is quite notable, it may be an old building but it's quite functional. I mean lets face it, Halifax isn't going to have two MC-quality venues, not a city this size, so for what it is, the Forum is a great venue. Maybe a little cash to install some proper seating (hopefully the winter games money will do that). I mean, it's a better hockey venue than Cole Harbour Place, I would put it on par with the Sportsplex, albeit older. Plus the Forum has other parts too, common rooms, and the larger exhibition room where the flea market is held.

Well the Forum is notable but even as you said it is getting up there in age. I think with just some money put into it saved from the MC upgrade and the 2011 money the Forum lands could become a lot nicer. While what I mentioned is not needed now, but I think over time more money should be invested to upgrade the lands in a major attraction for the North-End. Even just with some retail in the short-term the area could become a lot more attractive to visit.

Back to the Convention Centre though I was reading the HRM by Design files earlier tonight and no matter where the CC would go it would disobey the rules. If it were built in the Cogswell it would be destroying the vison of pedestrian-sized blocks. Likewise if it were built in the Herald Lands it would violate the "super-blocks" ban HRM by Design proposes since accoridng to people who have seen the renderings Grafton Street would be closed or covered over.

[terrynorthend]

Well they could gut the interior of the MC and the current WTCC, and then build a new MC with a footprint that is 90 degrees to the current. There should be more room that way.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Well they could gut the interior of the MC and the current WTCC, and then build a new MC with a footprint that is 90 degrees to the current. There should be more room that way.

I was thinking the same thing... it could be potentially cost effective. That would be a nice looking arena if they updated the non-brick exterior sections. Imagine entering in through the WTCC tower part.

[Keith P.]

I was thinking the same thing... it could be potentially cost effective.

I doubt it. You have the costs of gutting the current space, and then building new foundations and structures inside that envelope. All you would be saving is the land cost, which is insignificant, while adding a whole bunch of other costs.

Imagine entering in through the WTCC tower part.

Why? In fact, you can do that now, but it makes little sense to do so. A Brunswick entrance makes the most sense given the Argyle St congestion.

[sdm]

I maybe wrong here, but i was told that the original plan was to expand the trade centre into the MC because it would be a lot easier (and cost effective) to add a floor. When you think about the logistics’ of it; which makes more sense then trying to expand the MC in the same foot print.

Just think of the size the trade centre could be if they did that. Furthermore we would get a new MC, which to me makes a lot more sense in that why do we think we need two convention centers when a number of the larger Hotels/Pier 21 can deal with the smaller venues

[worldlyhaligonian]

I doubt it. You have the costs of gutting the current space, and then building new foundations and structures inside that envelope. All you would be saving is the land cost, which is insignificant, while adding a whole bunch of other costs.



Why? In fact, you can do that now, but it makes little sense to do so. A Brunswick entrance makes the most sense given the Argyle St congestion.

There isn't much that needs gutting. We are talking about orienting the ice surface in the other direction. I am aware you can enter through the WTCC, but thats the point, you don't directly enter the arena.

I've been in the metro centre when it has been completely opened up... If the interiors of the trade centre were incorporated in the general layout it is totally feasible.

[musicman]

Demolition would be huge in that complex. a. The Floor layout of the WTCC is not friendly with the demands of an arena the size that is needed. b. The structural steel of the metro center runs East-West making the roof unsuitable for expansion in that direction due to the snow loads and rigging loads of concerts. c. all of the seating would have to be ripped up .... including the concrete portions... which from what i can tell are also structural supports. d. The internal loading/ unloading area is horrible at the best of times and should have never been built in that manner. The list of reasons not to do this is very long. The metro center should have been turned into a larger convention complex, while a new metro center should have been purpose built to meet the specifications of todays and tomorrows sports team and concert demands.

[Keith P.]

Demolition would be huge in that complex. a. The Floor layout of the WTCC is not friendly with the demands of an arena the size that is needed. b. The structural steel of the metro center runs East-West making the roof unsuitable for expansion in that direction due to the snow loads and rigging loads of concerts. c. all of the seating would have to be ripped up .... including the concrete portions... which from what i can tell are also structural supports. d. The internal loading/ unloading area is horrible at the best of times and should have never been built in that manner. The list of reasons not to do this is very long. The metro center should have been turned into a larger convention complex, while a new metro center should have been purpose built to meet the specifications of todays and tomorrows sports team and concert demands.

Everything you say is true, and I agree totally. Unfortunately, the decision made regarding the Herald site rules out this very sensible approach.

[someone123]

Before all of this began I had kind of expected them to try to plan for a new Metro Centre and then expand the WTCC, as described. It seems like it would be very easy given the large interior space of the Metro Centre, while the old WTCC building is not useful for arena space.

Then again, maybe the WTCC contains a lot of office space that is value by itself..?

The current plan still seems strange to me but then again the more I think of it the more I'd like them to simply move ahead because it's been so long since anything of consequence has been built downtown.

[someone123]

By the way, any idea of when we will actually get a look at this proposal?

I'd expect it to be pretty highly visible.

[musicman]

It is quite evident in most of these decisions that "common sense isn't very common" and that obviously somebody somewhere is pulling the strings on more than a few puppets within our municipal and provincial governments.

[sdm]

Is new Metro Centre off province’s list?

By ROGER TAYLOR Business Columnist
Tue. Mar 17 - 6:14 AM






ONCE AT THE TOP of the province’s to-do list of infrastructure projects, the proposed multimillion-dollar convention centre in Halifax has lost its allure since early last month when it was first announced.

Some people might have expected Premier Rodney MacDonald to have mentioned funding for the project last week, when he announced an $800 million top-up to the province’s capital spending program over the next three years, but that didn’t happen.

During an interview on Wednesday, the premier pointed out that the strategic infrastructure partnership, designed to deal with future private-public partnerships, was not included when factoring in the $400-million provincial share of the top-up.

The province’s share is expected to be matched by $400 million from the federal government. The total capital spending budget will be $1.9 billion.

"Building convention facilities wasn’t part of (the announcement). What that model ends up looking like — who owns it, who operates it, how it’s worked — we didn’t even get near that," the premier told The Chronicle Herald’s editorial board.

In early February, a selection committee from the province and Halifax Regional Municipality chose the Rank Group of Halifax as the sole candidate eligible to win a contract to build a new convention centre on the site of the former Chronicle Herald building and adjacent lands.

Last fall the selection panel narrowed the shortlist to two bidders, Rank and the Hardman Group of Halifax, from the six that responded to a call for proposals. When the municipality determined that a site reclaimed from the dismantling of the Cogswell interchange, proposed by the Hardman Group, would not be made available for a convention centre it was determined that Rank was the only qualified bidder.

The next step was to invite Rank to submit its proposal in greater detail, explaining how its project would work, how it would fit various financial models. The province and the municipality are to work out a detailed project plan for the convention centre with cost estimates and financing options.

Joe Ramia, who speaks for Rank, would only say his group has been meeting with government staff and consultants and he’s not sure when a final decision will be made.

The 2,500-seat convention centre is just one part of Rank’s proposal for the Chronicle Herald site. The complex is expected to be named Nova Centre, Global Trade and Finance. If this "shovel-ready project" gets the final go-ahead, it will be located in the heart of Halifax’s designated entertainment district.

The plan calls for the office component to be marketed as a location for clients from Nova Scotia’s growing financial services sector.

Calls to the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal, which is in charge of making the final decision on the new convention centre, went unanswered on Monday.

The sooner work can begin on the convention centre, the better. It is likely the empty Chronicle Herald building on Argyle Street will be torn down sooner rather than later, considering the enormous tax bill the owner is facing.

Rather than having an empty lot facing the trendy downtown eateries across the street from the project, restaurant patrons could be keeping close tabs on the convention centre’s progress this summer.

The project will not only eliminate the Chronicle Herald building, but will also involve the demolition of the Midtown Tavern, arguably the city’s best-known watering hole.

( rtaylor@herald.ca)

[someone123]

I was just complaining about how unfortunate it is that Halifax didn't get a single office tower during all the construction of this decade and now I'll complain that we don't have a major public construction project happening during the recession, nor in fact has there been any major public building constructed downtown in a very long time, unless we want to include the hideous and damaging sewage treatment plant.

I have my reservations about this project as it takes up two blocks, but I still think it would, or could, be a big positive change for the city.

In an alternative world of purposeful and effective political leaders there would be cranes up right now for a convention centre with some office towers and a new public library with space for major new retail tenants.

[terrynorthend]

the hideous and damaging sewage treatment plant.



Which, correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't been and still is not doing any "sewage treatment". Weeks now, not since the power surge/equipment failure and wryly humourous public notice in the dead of winter to refrain from swimming in the harbour until further notice.

[kwajo]

As an outsider looking in, why was the decision made to build the sewerage treatment plant downtown? Surely there were lots of other place to put the plant in HRM, and by the same token why did they spend all that money to build only a primary treatment system that basically just filters out solids?

[someone123]

They did that because it was the easiest and cheapest way to go. That is how the HRM council operates, when they manage to get anything done at all.

[spaustin]

The biggest tragedy here is not that a new convention centre isn't proceeding, but that the Herald Lands are being held up because of this political dickering. Make a decision and go with it. If it's not going to proceed let the developer go forth with his original (now alternate) strategy of a mixed use development. Leaving it in limbo is the worst thing they could do. I actually hope it doesn't go ahead and that the developer goes back to his original plan, but knowing our provincial government, they'll probably dwaddle, the Herald Building will get torn down, nothing will be decided and we'll have another vacant lot downtown.

[sdm]

The biggest tragedy here is not that a new convention centre isn't proceeding, but that the Herald Lands are being held up because of this political dickering. Make a decision and go with it. If it's not going to proceed let the developer go forth with his original (now alternate) strategy of a mixed use development. Leaving it in limbo is the worst thing they could do. I actually hope it doesn't go ahead and that the developer goes back to his original plan, but knowing our provincial government, they'll probably dwaddle, the Herald Building will get torn down, nothing will be decided and we'll have another vacant lot downtown.

The developer hasn't filed any development agreements for any plans, so its already behind regardless of the direction that is ulimately taken. The developer needs to figure out its risk position and do what is best for their organization. I personally don't believe the government is holding it up.

Everyone knows when it comes to government involved projects its a slow process.

Besides, those buildings are coming down by the end of the year regardless.

[Dmajackson]

A picture of the Herald Lands taken by me today;

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3369490730_ea2c7b237a_b.jpg

[sdm]

Delays getting convention centre project moving cause concern

By ROGER TAYLOR Sports Columnist
Wed. Mar 25 - 5:45 AM






JUST A COUPLE of months after a new Halifax convention centre was identified as the top priority by both Premier Rodney MacDonald and Mayor Peter Kelly, mysteriously the idea doesn’t seem to be getting the attention it deserves.

The shift from necessity to lower down on the priority list has some prominent people scratching their heads. Halifax architect Andy Lynch of the firm Lydon Lynch Architects Ltd., also a member of the Downtown Halifax Business Commission, calls the delay in getting the project moving "a great big mystery."

He told me on Tuesday that the commission met with developer Joe Ramia on Monday to discuss his plans for the convention centre on the site of the former Herald Building on Argyle Street in a partnership arrangement with the province and the city.

The commission wants to co-ordinate with all the businesses on the street to get some improvements completed at the same time the convention centre is being built.

Lynch says Ramia doesn’t know what’s going on behind closed doors at Province House or city hall. "We showed him a notice of a meeting (Tuesday) at city council where (the convention centre was) on the agenda and he didn’t even know about that."

He says timing is everything in the development business in Halifax and Ramia is faced with trying to apply for a development agreement under older development rules versus filing to construct the convention centre under the governance of the city’s more stringent HRM by Design plan.

"He’s getting pretty close to that deadline but he can’t apply for a development agreement until he’s gotten the nod at least from the province. The city is kind of holding a reserve spot for him but that’s going to expire at some point in time and my theory is that the province is kind of dragging a little bit. They could have pushed it but they’re not saying anything," said Lynch.

Last week Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal Minister Brooke Taylor told me the process of determining who would own the structure and operate the convention facility is complicated and it isn’t likely a decision will be made until later in the spring.

"Well, Ramia is going to get screwed if that’s the kind of attitude that’s down there (at Province House) because he’s going to lose his timing," said Lynch. Besides, he said, the government was supposed to have been thinking about the configuration of the ownership and operation of the new convention centre for at least a year.

All of the merchants on Argyle Street are supportive of the plan shown them by Ramia during the meeting, said the architect.

"I think it’s a good news story all around because that trade centre is all new money to the city, conventions that couldn’t come here before, and it doesn’t pollute. It’s a huge investment, nothing but good, but you know we still don’t have anybody in Province House looking after downtown Halifax."

Another member of the Downtown Halifax Business Commission Board, Argyle Bar and Grill owner Chris Tzaneteas, said it’s been a long time since anything has happened in the downtown core.

"It’s the heartbeat of the city. It’s been neglected. Lack of leadership in the city has put us in a real bad spot and I think what they’re trying to do there will help in revitalizing the area and bringing more life than just bars."

Tzaneteas and his partner have started looking at redeveloping the property it owns.

"We’re looking at different options. I think what (the convention centre) is going to create here, there’s going to be tremendous opportunities for us on different levels. It could be an apartment building to a hotel, maybe, to an office."

( rtaylor@herald.ca)

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Is anyone really surprised by this lack of leadership from Rodney and Peter? I don't like the convention centre on Argyle but if you are going to do it at least run the process properly. First the Cogswell proposal is thrown out prematurely over unclear concerns about HRMbyDesign compliance and the timeline for the interchange demolition (both issues the City and the Province could control). Now that they've chosen Ramia he's going to be held in limbo for months. Pretty sad, but not shocking.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Umm, at least give us a juicy rendering in the meantime! :cheers:

[someone123]

It's not surprising but it is disappointing.

The flip-flopping and delay is actually much worse than doing nothing at all downtown. The Herald lands developer was already preparing a development plan before the convention centre RFP and now that is on hold. Similarly, pretty much everything for Barrington is on hold while council has dithered over spending for the street. If there were no prospect of future funding some restorations and other projects would likely have just gone forward anyway.

Add to that unfortunate developments like the sewage treatment plant on the edge of the downtown and I would argue that the municipal government has done much more harm than good downtown over the last few years.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I honestly believe that a high school student council would be more effective.

[Dmajackson]

I honestly believe that a high school student council would be more effective.

I like that idea. I wouldn't mind being mayor :)

[Jonovision]

Anyone who likes the old Herald building should get out soon and take some nice pictures. I might myself. I have heard that it will come down in less then 60 days. I've also heard that more info should be released this month on Ramia's plan.

[sdm]

Anyone who likes the old Herald building should get out soon and take some nice pictures. I might myself. I have heard that it will come down in less then 60 days. I've also heard that more info should be released this month on Ramia's plan.

News in allnovascotia.com that says council gave the project special consideration under HRM by design and therefore the ablility to exceed the height limits of HRM by design. Yet they decided to turn down Hardmans proposal because it conflicted HRM by design principles?????

Doing this will open a flood gate of problems in my opinion as council is already bending the rules of HRM by design.

The plan is 18 stories and 14 stories on a 5 storey base that spans the whole two blocks. Therefore the street is gone.

Ramia's proposal is getting a special clause in HRM by Design too.

[DigitalNinja]

Ooo some height. Amazing that they are willing to bend the rules for them selves but when it comes to someone else wanting to bring some profit to the city. They say no :P

[sdm]

Ooo some height. Amazing that they are willing to bend the rules for them selves but when it comes to someone else wanting to bring some profit to the city. They say no :P

What bugs me is they bend the rules here, but didn't for Hardman.

[Keith P.]

That's going to make the east side of Argyle pretty dark in the afternoons. An unfortunate choice.

[sdm]

That's going to make the east side of Argyle pretty dark in the afternoons. An unfortunate choice.

Yup, poor decision.

[terrynorthend]

What bugs me is they bend the rules here, but didn't for Hardman.

which one is Hardman?

[spaustin]

News in allnovascotia.com that says council gave the project special consideration under HRM by design and therefore the ablility to exceed the height limits of HRM by design. Yet they decided to turn down Hardmans proposal because it conflicted HRM by design principles?????

Doing this will open a flood gate of problems in my opinion as council is already bending the rules of HRM by design.

The plan is 18 stories and 14 stories on a 5 storey base that spans the whole two blocks. Therefore the street is gone.

Ramia's proposal is getting a special clause in HRM by Design too.

Wiping out Grafton is a stupid move. Cutting Market Street in two did wonders for it! That area could be really great, but this project seems set to become just another burden to overcome.

[J.M.]

Im so excited, I swear I seen a rendering on the news when I first hear of it, very generic but tall.

[someone123]

Anybody notice how, while private projects are pretty varied, public projects downtown mostly tend to be as harmful as they could possibly be?

I'm still a little torn about this simply because there's been so little construction downtown for so long. How sad.

[Jonovision]

Unless this is a stupendous striking piece of modern architecture, I am not at all liking the plan from what has been said.

[eastcoastal]

Ugh.

Shading streets... consolidating blocks... this all sounds pretty terrible

[Jonovision]

Ok, so I got a chance to see Mr Ramia's new convention centre project yesterday. And I know I've been very skeptical of this project but all my fears were set aside yesterday when I saw this proposal. It is unbelievable! It's nothing in the way of crazy modern architecture. But it has clean lines and a great design. And they are going for LEED Gold status. They are not building over Market, but building under it. The convention space will be built underneath the two blocks and Market street will become a pedestrian street lined with retail and will be covered by a large glass canopy.
I'll wait to say more until we see renderings released publicly. (which I'm guessing will be after HRM By Design is passed) But this project will change the face and feel of downtown in the exact way we need.

[Barrington south]

that sounds awesome jono...once again, great sleuth work...the pedestrian street sounds terrific!!....

[miesh111]

Presumably, the entrance to the 'conenvtion' floor would be on Argyle and the buildings and such above would be on Grafton. I'd rather see more cafe's and restaurants with patios on Argyle.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Whoa, that sounds incredible... it seems that concept solves alot of the issues we discussed.

When can we expect some renderings to come out???

[Barrington south]

someone on this forum said...I forget who, but they said if this is done in an really innovative way it could be a very good development...sounds like they may have pulled it off.....:cool:

[Dmajackson]

Good news Jono. :)

Is it just me or is there a LEED race going on in HRM? :shrug:

[hfx_chris]

I kinda would have liked to see pedways over the street as well.

[Jonovision]

The approval of this is linked to HRM By Design through a clause that they added to HRM By Design which I thought already existed. It allows for any development that might be proposed that would provide a significant amount of financial, cultural or social benefit to the city, to be considered even if it does not meet the strict controls of HRM By Design. Its sort of a checks and balance system.
And there is also another approval from the province that is necessary. Ramia has yet to meet with HT so that is why I assume there have been no renderings released. So I would presume once HRM By Design is passed we will probably see a rendering.
And there is at ground retail on the entire project where there is flat ground. I believe the Sackville and Prince side do not have retail. And they are retailers that have never set up shop in the city before that they are in talks with.

[Jonovision]

Good news Jono. :)

Is it just me or is there a LEED race going on in HRM? :shrug:

This is the only project in the city that is going for LEED Gold I believe.
There is a fusion hosted forum coming up regarding LEED certification and its merits and downfalls if anyone is interested. I'll post more when I know the details.

And in response to hfx_chris. The centre will be linked under Sackville to the Prince George.

[Dmajackson]

This is the only project in the city that is going for LEED Gold I believe.
There is a fusion hosted forum coming up regarding LEED certification and its merits and downfalls if anyone is interested. I'll post more when I know the details.

And in response to hfx_chris. The centre will be linked under Sackville to the Prince George.

For LEED Gold yes but IP is going for silver, and I don't know about what levels but Harobur Isle, Farmer's Market, Atrium, Dal Administration, and PPV are aiming for LEED as well.

[sdm]

For LEED Gold yes but IP is going for silver, and I don't know about what levels but Harobur Isle, Farmer's Market, Atrium, Dal Administration, and PPV are aiming for LEED as well.

PPV is the first LEED office in the region, so they have been crowned of being first. I know the Waterside Centre is targeted LEED gold, Farmer's market Gold, and so is Emera's power station along with other LEED projects such as Dal

[hfx_chris]

And in response to hfx_chris. The centre will be linked under Sackville to the Prince George.
Yes I know, you said that already. I still would like to see pedways over the street.

[kwajo]

PPV is the first LEED office in the region, so they have been crowned of being first. I know the Waterside Centre is targeted LEED gold, Farmer's market Gold, and so is Emera's power station along with other LEED projects such as Dal
I was under the impression that Somerset Square was the first LEED Gold building in the region.

You guys in Halifax are behind the times, we're already working on LEED Platinum buildings in Saint John, none of this Silver and Gold nonsense :P

[sdm]

I was under the impression that Somerset Square was the first LEED Gold building in the region.

You guys in Halifax are behind the times, we're already working on LEED Platinum buildings in Saint John, none of this Silver and Gold nonsense :P

Platinum? which building(s) are targeting that in St John. Mind you the projects mentioned above, save and accept for Farmers Market, are private development and not government.

[Haliguy]

I was under the impression that Somerset Square was the first LEED Gold building in the region.

You guys in Halifax are behind the times, we're already working on LEED Platinum buildings in Saint John, none of this Silver and Gold nonsense :P


Actually we have two LEED platinums under construction now. The NSP power plant conversion project and the new Seaport Farmers Market.

[Dmajackson]

Actually we have two LEED platinums under construction now. The NSP power plant conversion project and the new Seaport Farmers Market.

What's the transit garage aiming for?

I think its pretty high up there as well.

[kwajo]

Actually we have two LEED platinums under construction now. The NSP power plant conversion project and the new Seaport Farmers Market.
Well shoot, I guess I'd better spill the beans on a second Platinum project planned in SJ then.... well maybe it's better if I don't :P

Anyway, that's great that there are two, I knew about the Farmers Market, but I thought the NSP conversion was only Gold. By the same token, the whole LEED thing is getting a bit out of hand, I mean the benefits are good and all, but the name is starting to be used to 'green-wash' developments. Glad to see the concept of green building taking hold throughout the Maritimes, I know there are a bunch of LEED projects in Fax, about 8 in SJ, some in Moncton, Charlottetown, Fredericton, etc. - it's really nice to see.

[sdm]

Well shoot, I guess I'd better spill the beans on a second Platinum project planned in SJ then.... well maybe it's better if I don't :P

Anyway, that's great that there are two, I knew about the Farmers Market, but I thought the NSP conversion was only Gold. By the same token, the whole LEED thing is getting a bit out of hand, I mean the benefits are good and all, but the name is starting to be used to 'green-wash' developments. Glad to see the concept of green building taking hold throughout the Maritimes, I know there are a bunch of LEED projects in Fax, about 8 in SJ, some in Moncton, Charlottetown, Fredericton, etc. - it's really nice to see.

Yeah at least if the building is certified its not green washing. Its the ones that simply say built to leed standards and not certifying that are the ones green washing really.

[Jonovision]

Yeah at least if the building is certified its not green washing. Its the ones that simply say built to leed standards and not certifying that are the ones green washing really.

I don't know about that. That's is kinda of my quarrel with LEED. To get the certification you have to pay a certain amount and go through quite a lot of paper work. I don't know exactly what the amount is, but I do know its quite a hefty sum. Not all developers are willing to go through all that just to have the name associated. This is the debate that fusion will be hosting on the topic in a few weeks.

[Keith P.]

I don't know about that. That's is kinda of my quarrel with LEED. To get the certification you have to pay a certain amount and go through quite a lot of paper work. I don't know exactly what the amount is, but I do know its quite a hefty sum. Not all developers are willing to go through all that just to have the name associated. This is the debate that fusion will be hosting on the topic in a few weeks.

I've done quite a bit of work on LEED and have come away convinced that it is in large part nothing more than a boondoggle. It is sold to the public as some sort of environmental panacea but in reality it is mostly about filling out a bunch of forms and paying a substantial fee to consultants to certify what you have done, regarldess of whether it makes any sense to the particular situation. It has been hugely oversold.

[someone123]

Ok, so I got a chance to see Mr Ramia's new convention centre project yesterday. And I know I've been very skeptical of this project but all my fears were set aside yesterday when I saw this proposal. It is unbelievable! It's nothing in the way of crazy modern architecture. But it has clean lines and a great design. And they are going for LEED Gold status. They are not building over Market, but building under it. The convention space will be built underneath the two blocks and Market street will become a pedestrian street lined with retail and will be covered by a large glass canopy.
I'll wait to say more until we see renderings released publicly. (which I'm guessing will be after HRM By Design is passed) But this project will change the face and feel of downtown in the exact way we need.

This sounds like what I hoped, and much better than what I feared. :)

Good development on that site would be huge - it would tie together a few different parts of the downtown and currently that is one of the ugliest sections of the city.

[Empire]

Ok, so I got a chance to see Mr Ramia's new convention centre project yesterday. And I know I've been very skeptical of this project but all my fears were set aside yesterday when I saw this proposal. It is unbelievable! It's nothing in the way of crazy modern architecture. But it has clean lines and a great design. And they are going for LEED Gold status. They are not building over Market, but building under it. The convention space will be built underneath the two blocks and Market street will become a pedestrian street lined with retail and will be covered by a large glass canopy.
I'll wait to say more until we see renderings released publicly. (which I'm guessing will be after HRM By Design is passed) But this project will change the face and feel of downtown in the exact way we need.

Isn't there a 17 storey component? HT will have a major issue with that. It would have to be on Argyle because the Midtown didn't fly at 17fl. This ia a golden opportunity to link to rest of downtown. If a link were developed from the the new site where the Midtown now sits to the Prince George then there would be a connection from the casino to the new Convention Centre. The link would have to be underground as those sitelines down the street to the harbour are protected under the HRM by Design plan.

[sdm]

Isn't there a 17 storey component? HT will have a major issue with that. It would have to be on Argyle because the Midtown didn't fly at 17fl. This ia a golden opportunity to link to rest of downtown. If a link were developed from the the new site where the Midtown now sits to the Prince George then there would be a connection from the casino to the new Convention Centre. The link would have to be underground as those sitelines down the street to the harbour are protected under the HRM by Design plan.

I personally do not agree with the proposed heights for the development.

I rather see 8-9 stories, then down in areas like hollis, granville being 15-17.

Putting height so far up the hill throws the balance off in my opinion.

[Jonovision]

Isn't there a 17 storey component? HT will have a major issue with that. It would have to be on Argyle because the Midtown didn't fly at 17fl. This ia a golden opportunity to link to rest of downtown. If a link were developed from the the new site where the Midtown now sits to the Prince George then there would be a connection from the casino to the new Convention Centre. The link would have to be underground as those sitelines down the street to the harbour are protected under the HRM by Design plan.

Yes, its either 17 or 18 I cannot recall. And that is the hotel portion on Argyle. The reason for the height is a convention center of that size needs a direct proportion of rooms in a hotel. And this was the result. It is set back from the street a bit with a lower podium. And the podium is on both buildings. I believe it was about 5 or 6 stories on Market street so that would make it 7 or 8 on Argyle.

I was at first adverse to these heights but I think they work with the way they were approached through the design. They didn't have any context renderings however. So I'm still not sure what it will look like in comparison to the buildings around it.

[terrynorthend]

I personally do not agree with the proposed heights for the development.

I rather see 8-9 stories, then down in areas like hollis, granville being 15-17.

Putting height so far up the hill throws the balance off in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind a bit of height here and there further up the hill.. just to add visual interest to the skyline.. i'm a little concerned about too much of a monotonous "tabletop" feature developing in the DT core if the heights are all stepped down on the higher streets. But having said that, I'd dont want a wall of tall buildings up in front of Brunswick either.. just a few point towers well placed.

[Haliguy]

Details are going to be released to the public tomorrow. The Premier and Mayor will sign a mendorum of understanding with the developer.

[sdm]

Plans ready for unveiling
Convention centre expected for site of former Chronicle Herald building
By JEFFREY SIMPSON Staff Reporter
Mon. May 4 - 5:28 AM

Plans for the former Chronicle Herald building on Argyle Street and its adjoining lots will be unveiled today, says Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly. (CHRISTIAN LAFORCE / Staff)




The public can get a glimpse of how downtown Halifax will look in a few years when plans for a convention centre are unveiled this morning.

Mayor Peter Kelly confirmed Sunday that he’ll be joined by Premier Rodney MacDonald and developer Joe Ramia at an announcement about what’s in store for the former Chronicle Herald building on Argyle Street and its adjoining lots, as well as the adjacent Midtown Tavern.

The 2,500-seat convention centre complex is expected to include two towers of 18 and 14 storeys, along with retail space and possibly a hotel. The plan calls for the office component to be marketed as a location for clients from Nova Scotia’s growing financial services sector.

"I’ve seen different versions of these schematics," Mr. Kelly said in a telephone interview. "There are three or four different components."

But that’s as much as the tight-lipped mayor was interested in saying about the project.

"I don’t want to take the wind out of the sails of this announcement," he said. "I’d like to withhold further comment."

A selection committee from the province and Halifax Regional Municipality chose Mr. Ramia’s Rank Group in February as the sole candidate eligible to win a contract to build a new convention centre on the site.

The selection panel had last fall narrowed the shortlist to two Halifax-based bidders, Rank and the Hardman Group, from the six that responded to a call for proposals. When the municipality determined that a site reclaimed from the dismantling of the Cogswell interchange, proposed by the Hardman Group, would not be made available for a convention centre it was determined that Rank was the only qualified bidder.

The complex is expected to be completed in a few years, possibly by 2013.

"We are trying to get this built as quickly as possible," Mr. Kelly said.

The project has been greeted with enthusiasm by other business owners in the area, who support what will be the downtown’s largest commercial development in many years.

The convention centre is viewed as a project that government can get moving quickly as a means of aiding an ailing economy, while at the same time catering to the long-term needs of the province.

"As other municipalities grow in this direction we need to keep at the forefront to ensure our continued viability," Mr. Kelly said.

The complex is expected to be officially named Nova Centre, Global Trade and Finance.

( jsimpson@herald.ca)

[Dmajackson]

Some stats from the Gov. of NS website;

A recent study conducted by the firm Criterion found that between June 1, 2007 and February 28, 2009, at least 60 international conferences decided not to come to Nova Scotia because the 25-year-old facilities at Halifax's World Trade and Convention Centre were deemed insufficient. This represented a loss of 45,855 delegates, 86,865 room nights and an estimated $65 million in overall economic impact.

[steve61]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9011705.html

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u25/zimmyfan61/05-04-09_6NovaCentreImage.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u25/zimmyfan61/05-04-09_5NovaCentreImage.jpg

i have to say, this has exceeded my expectations.

[Aya_Akai]

Holy crap... totally not what I was expecting ... not even close


and I love it!!!:tup:

[Barrington south]

pretty nice, like jono said not super modern looking, but functionally,.... for downtown as a hole, this will be revolutionary....and I love the fact that there is retail on all sides that are not on inclines....that is my fav part....it's going to do so much for the core....also the towers are much wider than I was expecting...I thought they where going to be very slender....nice....kinda looks like it was designed in 1998.....whatever...it's still gonna be sweet

[sdm]

pretty nice, like jono said not super modern looking, but functionally,.... for downtown as a hole, this will be revolutionary....and I love the fact that there is retail on all sides that are not on inclines....that is my fav part....it's going to do so much for the core....also the towers are much wider than I was expecting...I thought they where going to be very slender....nice....kinda looks like it was designed in 1998.....whatever...it's still gonna be sweet

Those towers concern me in the fact they could be the cause of this development not happening as shown.

The government doesn't move very quickly with their partnered projects in past, and with a pending election i wonder what will happen to this.

Project looks very nice.

[Jonovision]

Great to finally see those released! Is it not superb!

This is not exactly a government project. It is being done with private money and no government money. From what I understood at the meeting last week is that they were waiting for the agreement that was signed today. And the only other hurdle is HRM By Design. So if all goes smoothly this week at council then the shovel will be in the ground this summer.