[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Hali87]

I don't think there are any plans to connect it to the pedway network.

[Hali87]

I wonder how the Midtown Tavern has been doing since it moved from its old location?

[OldDartmouthMark]

I feel like there is a selective memory about the time when it was the Herald building on this site.

To confirm: It was absolutely terrible... and all the patios were in the shade. It was like the pit before the Nova Centre... except an eyesore and completely dead zone.

Furthermore, the western site was like the current "twisted sisters" site.

Its probably the ideal situation for both lots.

I don't know why you're fixating on my question regarding the shade conditions caused by the Herald building.

FWIW, I knew the building and the street very well. In fact I almost worked out of that building many years ago until I decided to change my career path and not go into the print media industry (thankfully in retrospect). My question was merely based on the fact that when I, like many other university students, used to frequent Argyle St. on a weekly basis (for bar-hopping) there wasn't the proliferation of outdoor patios on the strip and thus I didn't care about nor did I pay attention to the shade conditions on the street (don't really care about it now, for that matter, other than when musing about how the street will look/function once the Nova Centre is complete).

My comparisons to the Herald bldg. stops right there, at shade conditions. I think it's pointless to compare the Herald bldg. to the Nova Centre as it was a throwback to another time - when many of Halifax's downtown streets were occupied by businesses more industrial in nature.

In that building, the Chronicle Herald/Mail Star was produced from start to finish, right from the reporters and columnists submitting their work for editing to printed newspapers leaving in trucks to be taken to the large green boxes in bundles for the paperboys to pick up for delivery. Yes, it was always a dead zone because the building was not supposed to relate to the public, other than to represent the business as an external presence. The Grafton street side was bordering the production area of the building and was thus completely blank - I can recall walking by there at night hearing the hum of newspaper production inside and smelling the fresh ink fumes being emitted from the vents near sidewalk level. For that matter the building had been vacated several years before the Nova Centre was built, creating even more of a dead zone from the perspective of our younger members or members who did not live in Halifax for many years.

So, I don't know why people would even consider comparing the Herald bldg. to the Nova Centre as it's like comparing apples to bacon.

However, I will say it again - the NC was started from a clean slate. Anything could have been built there to relate to the street and the neighbourhood as well as possible. The sky was the limit considering the size of the budget and the backing that this building had from the government. My concern was solely centred around whether it will be the best it can be for the street, and if half of the Argyle St. side is going to be a bank branch I'm not sure that it is a great fit for what arguably is the most vibrant stretch of road for nightlife in all of Halifax. But - it's not a decision that we have to make, so we will see what happens. I'm hoping for the best.

That's all.

[alps]

What was on the western block before?

Google Earth imagery only goes to 2003 and it was mostly a parking lot then except for a building in the northeast corner (is that the Midtown Tavern?)

[Keith P.]

What was on the western block before?

Google Earth imagery only goes to 2003 and it was mostly a parking lot then except for a building in the northeast corner (is that the Midtown Tavern?)

My recollection is that the Grafton-Market block only had the Midtown property and the few old apartments attached to the tavern at the back of the building. The Midtown maintained a small parking lot in behind accessed from Market (I was never able to use it as it was always full when I tried) and the bulk of the block was a parking lot maintained by the Herald for their staff. Obviously at some point there were other older buildings on that block but I do not recall what they were or when they were removed. I would have been many years ago though.

[MonctonRad]

My recollection is that the Grafton-Market block only had the Midtown property and the few old apartments attached to the tavern at the back of the building. The Midtown maintained a small parking lot in behind accessed from Market (I was never able to use it as it was always full when I tried) and the bulk of the block was a parking lot maintained by the Herald for their staff. Obviously at some point there were other older buildings on that block but I do not recall what they were or when they were removed. I would have been many years ago though.

I have many fond memories of the old Midtown from my med school days - especially the shuffleboard table (and the steak and the beer). :)

[OldDartmouthMark]

What was on the western block before?

Google Earth imagery only goes to 2003 and it was mostly a parking lot then except for a building in the northeast corner (is that the Midtown Tavern?)

As Keith says, the lots had been vacant for a very long time, perhaps since the 1970s. I believe there were a number of businesses there, including car repair shops and such.

If you want to look way back, here are some photos:

https://novascotia.ca/archives/images/Notman/200714629.jpg

Large, zoomable version at:
https://novascotia.ca/archives/Notman/archives.asp?ID=502

The area is visible on the far left of this shot:
https://novascotia.ca/archives/images/builtheritage/200803102.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/Builtheritage/archives.asp?ID=131

The Herald building at the corner of Argyle and Sackville, 1961:
https://novascotia.ca/archives/images/NSIS/14945.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/NSIS/archives.asp?ID=1699

Argyle and Prince in 1928:
https://novascotia.ca/archives/images/builtheritage/200803061.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/Builtheritage/archives.asp?ID=22

Area to the left of the photo, 1888:
https://novascotia.ca/archives/images/Notman/200714634.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/Notman/archives.asp?ID=507

Edit: There's also this one from 1974.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/martigae/8935263492/in/album-72157632417839554/

I should also mention that you can actually survey the area pre-demolition circa 2009 on Google maps, for those interested:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6459283,-63.574911,3a,75y,8.92h,95.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRg0ktPQYZhwHbx9ha6IKcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Bing bird's-eye view:
http://binged.it/1WX6jDC

[terrynorthend]

If you want to look way back, here are some photos:



The Herald building at the corner of Argyle and Sackville, 1961:
https://novascotia.ca/archives/images/NSIS/14945.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/NSIS/archives.asp?ID=1699
/archives.asp?ID=22[/URL]


That's a great picture! Very Film Noir; I can imagine a Hitchcock thriller being set here.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Here's another view that shows the Nova Centre block in 1955. Doesn't look like a whole lot there at that time, and it's also notable that the block that now houses the Prince George was empty at that time.

http://i.imgur.com/A3CY6v0.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/NSIS/archives.asp?ID=730&Language=English

[OldDartmouthMark]

I keep stumbling across them. Here is an aerial of the area viewed from the west. My best guess for timeline is the late 1950s.

It's interesting to note that the Herald Building that we typically think of as one building, was actually made up of several parts, apparently added or joined over time.

http://i.imgur.com/71O9dIx.jpg

https://novascotia.ca/archives/NSIS/archives.asp?ID=1209&Language=English

[Keith P.]

Man, that section of downtown was dismal even back then. Easy to see how the momentum for urban renewal picked up steam.

[curnhalio]

Man, that section of downtown was dismal even back then. Easy to see how the momentum for urban renewal picked up steam.

Yeah, there were a lot of industrial smokestacks downtown in 1955, and by 1974 a lot of them were gone. It would have been tough to fight to preserve or restore those particular sites back then. "Hey, don't knock it down! People will love it in 50 years, just you wait and see!"

[Nor'easter]

Thanks for digging through the archives, Mark. Lends a great perspective. :tup:

[someone123]

You can see the rear part of the NFB Building, now the Argyle, in that last photo. Originally it was 3 storeys tall on the Argyle side.

Overall it seems like the neighbourhood is nicer these days (something to keep in mind is that the city is much larger now than it was back then). One piece that's still missing is that the 2-storey bunker next to Maxwell's Plum needs to be replaced with something better that has some street-level interest.

[ns_kid]

I don't think there are any plans to connect it to the pedway network.

Not sure what the latest on this is. The last I heard the plan was to connect to the downtown link but there was dispute over what that would look like and who would pay.

But during the recent media tour of the facility, Joe Ramia made reference to pedway access:

Visitors will walk into the large lobby with a 60-foot wooden wall made of local materials, Ramia said, and either take wide escalators up to the Grafton Street plaza, use the meeting rooms on that first level, use the pedway system, or head down a floor to the main Convention Hall with 160-foot ceilings and a secondary hall adding up to 37,000 square feet of space.

- Haley Ryan, Metro Halifax, May 18, 2016

[Jonovision]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7736/27097007480_686e8fc9f7_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Hhtfh9)20160528_164508_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/Hhtfh9) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[OldDartmouthMark]

Man, that section of downtown was dismal even back then. Easy to see how the momentum for urban renewal picked up steam.

True enough. From that perspective it's amazing that any of them survived.

That's why today I'm all for saving as many of them as possible, knowing that the momentum has shifted back to the old mindset... :2cents:

[OldDartmouthMark]

Thanks for digging through the archives, Mark. Lends a great perspective. :tup:

:)

[portapetey]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7736/27097007480_686e8fc9f7_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Hhtfh9)20160528_164508_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/Hhtfh9) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

Very cool shot. Great perspective.

[Duff]

From this weekend

https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7071/27301441212_5bb6de5d15_h.jpg

[OldDartmouthMark]

You can see the rear part of the NFB Building, now the Argyle, in that last photo. Originally it was 3 storeys tall on the Argyle side.

Overall it seems like the neighbourhood is nicer these days (something to keep in mind is that the city is much larger now than it was back then). One piece that's still missing is that the 2-storey bunker next to Maxwell's Plum needs to be replaced with something better that has some street-level interest.

I had forgotten how deep the NFB building went. Thanks for pointing that out. I recall seeing a film in there in the early 1980s but didn't remember that it had a presence on Argyle as well.

It is interesting to look back in photos and realize how the downtown has transformed somewhat organically over the decades/centuries (urban renewal/Harbour Drive notwithstanding). As mentioned, there was so much more industrial activity downtown that started to fade away in the sixties and seventies, as the city's suburban areas started to expand. Not to mention the gradual disappearance of the numerous waterfront wharf areas that had been busy servicing the various marine interests of the past.

In the late 1960s - 1970s, industrial parks and outlying suburban areas started to become more attractive to industrial-based businesses, plus more and more manufacturing was shifted overseas, so the downtown environment started to change to a more stark business office-oriented atmosphere. Of course the bars never went away, keeping the downtown busy at night, especially later in the week.

With the advent of more tourist/recreational areas downtown in the 1980s, the shift started back to where we are today with the metamorphosis of the area becoming more residential again.

Also of note in some of those photos is the old Moir's Chocolate factory, on the site currently occupied by the World Trade and Convention Centre (I always thought the name seemed a little too ambitious for what actually resides there). Moir's moved to a more modern facility in Woodside in the 1970s and was closed sometime after Moir's was bought out by Hershey's in the 1980s. The whole idea of a large factory smack in the middle of downtown would seem a little strange today, but it wasn't really all that long ago that it was a reality.

And yes, that bunker next to Maxwell's can't go away quickly enough for me. Talk about a development opportunity - that one is it!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Sorry, don't want to make anybody tired of seeing old pics of the Nova Centre site, but just came across one more.

In the photo I had posted previously, the circled building on the south west corner of the Nova Centre lot has a great photo on the Noticed In Nova Scotia (http://halifaxbloggers.ca/noticedinnovascotia) Blog, presumably taken in the 1970s.

http://i.imgur.com/NRMKGA1.jpg

http://halifaxbloggers.ca/noticedinnovascotia/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2016/01/PICT0001-004.jpg

http://halifaxbloggers.ca/noticedinnovascotia/2016/01/fire-build/

[OldDartmouthMark]

To bring it full circle:
2009:
http://i.imgur.com/k3dNbSB.jpg

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.6457329,-63.5756376,3a,75y,39.64h,87.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swfBgb4wZcKWcmuY28nzP-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Today:
http://i.imgur.com/DVGK4VD.jpg

http://www.novascotiawebcams.com/en/webcams/nova-centre/

[PeterAKer]

The Conservative Party of Canada may be holding it's next Biennial Policy Convention at the Halifax Convention Centre in 2018/2019.

[someone123]

To bring it full circle:

Back around 2001 I started taking pictures of the downtown area (and scanning them in). In the first set I took shots of 3 ugly parking lots; all are gone now. One was the lot that is now the Marriott on Argyle Street, one was the lot behind the Herald Building, and the last one was the empty lot where the Alexander is being built now.

Actually in about 1998 the Keith brewery was surrounded by parking. There was nothing where the hotel is at the foot of the Maritime Centre, there was nothing on either side of the brewery, and Bishop's Landing was a parking lot.

I also had a shot of the Lord Nelson when there was no Paramount next door, just another parking lot.

[teddifax]

In a downtown area and its environs, land is far too valuable and scarce to have parking lots. All developments should be built over any parking required.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Yeah, it's nice to see some of the blank lots getting new buildings with underground parking. When I look at the 2009 pic I posted above, I find it so bleak and depressing. Always felt that way every time I walked or drove by it over the past 20 years or so.

Regardless on how anybody feels about how the Nova Centre was done, it's still 1000% better than what was there (though I think they should have built around the old Midtown, out of respect :P).

[Jonovision]

I've noticed the brick laying equipment is being set up around the hotel tower. Still no approval from DRC as far as I know though, and this months meeting was cancelled.

[RangerNS]

From Thursday

http://i.imgur.com/JvksKx1.jpg

And the bricklaying staging?


http://imgur.com/eeQkUfp.jpg

[Jonovision]

The rigs usually used to lay bricks have been installed on the hotel tower.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7423/27270597620_173ae56acb_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HxNWzA)20160608_155940_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/HxNWzA) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7007/26936482213_a071d9179a_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/H3hvH8)20160608_140507_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/H3hvH8) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[teddifax]

I didn't think they have approved the final exterior design yet, so how can they start?

[Jonovision]

I didn't think they have approved the final exterior design yet, so how can they start?

I'm not entirely sure. I was under the impression that the Design Review Committee would make their decision at this months meeting, but it was cancelled meaning they would have to wait at least another month for a decision.

[RangerNS]

I'm not entirely sure. I was under the impression that the Design Review Committee would make their decision at this months meeting, but it was cancelled meaning they would have to wait at least another month for a decision.

Waye on the twitterverse tells me there has not been an actionable proposal presented; there isn't anything to vote on.

I suspect what will happen is that poor planning on the NC part will be presented as an emergency, council will go in camera, and vote to do anything.

[TheGreenBastard]

GENERAL UPDATE:

A mobile crane will be on site as the glass installation for the hotel section begins.
Staging is being built for the process of brick installation.
Interior mechanical and electrical work is still ongoing.
Dry wall installation has begun in some areas of the interior.
The aluminum framing and glazing on the lower levels and through Argyle street is still progressing.
The freight elevators are underway in the interior.
There is an average of 190 workers per day on site.
WHAT’S COMING UP:

Work to close in the front of the Convention Centre will begin shortly, this will allow the hoarding to be pulled backed and turn a portion of the street back to the HRM.
Landscaping plans are near finalization and will be sent out to tender soon.

[teddifax]

So what is going to be the final exterior design of the hotel? I didn't hear that the new design was actually approved! Are they going with the changes presented or with the original ones?

[TheGreenBastard]

So what is going to be the final exterior design of the hotel? I didn't hear that the new design was actually approved! Are they going with the changes presented or with the original ones?

I think they're going with this design

http://www.metronews.ca/content/dam/thestar/uploads/2016/4/14/screen-shot-2016-04-11-at-12-12-11-pm.png

[teddifax]

So when will the name of the Hotel be announced, I wonder?

[planarchy]

I think they're going with this design

http://www.metronews.ca/content/dam/thestar/uploads/2016/4/14/screen-shot-2016-04-11-at-12-12-11-pm.png

It's not approved.

[RoshanMcG]

View from the Roy

http://i63.tinypic.com/2mo7e39.jpg
Source (https://www.instagram.com/p/BGr-iqFNI0f/?taken-by=sskinnner)

[Jonovision]

https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7690/27724568366_8046899a91_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JeVEgq)20160616_135645_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JeVEgq) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7652/27724567326_5094947ba7_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JeVDXu)20160616_135730_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JeVDXu) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7716/27147785963_01f9a805a1_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HmXuXe)20160617_165926_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/HmXuXe) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7548/27758883125_c6943a4227_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JhXwRc)20160617_165658_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JhXwRc) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7728/27724562046_112575c4c4_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JeVCos)20160617_170024_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JeVCos) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[JET]

CBC reports new board for convention centre: "Directors on the volunteer board receive $150 per day for meetings, plus reasonable expenses. The chair is entitled to a rate of $200 per day." What an insult to actual volunteers to call these appointed directors volunteers.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/new-halifax-convention-centre-board-1.3650896

[Keith P.]

CBC reports new board for convention centre: "Directors on the volunteer board receive $150 per day for meetings, plus reasonable expenses. The chair is entitled to a rate of $200 per day." What an insult to actual volunteers to call these appointed directors volunteers.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/new-halifax-convention-centre-board-1.3650896

The use of the word "volunteer" is indeed odd in this context. They are not volunteers. They are poorly paid corporate directors. You get what you pay for, and I am relatively unimpressed with the roster of individuals they have assembled. I am astounded that they have nobody on the Board from the tourism/hospitality/convention sector.

[ns_kid]

Developer Joe Ramia and Rank Inc. have withstood the slings and arrows of Save the View, Heritage Trust and the Thiel family. They'll now have to endure a legal action launched by lawyer Ray Wagner on behalf of some aggrieved neighbouring businesspeople.

You'll recall that last winter the proprietors of the Wooden Monkey (that's would-be mayor Lil MacPherson), Carleton and Attica were crying foul, saying city taxpayers should compensate them for their losses suffered during the construction of Nova Centre. According to the Herald and AllNovaScotia, Wager has now filed legal notice that they're seeking damages for injurious affection to recover what they're rightfully owed. Named in the action are Argyle Developments, Rank and the Halifax Convention Centre Corp., along with all three levels of government (i.e., you and me).

Wagner says the businesses have lost 30-35 per cent of their revenues and will each be looking for "hundreds of thousands" of dollars in compensation.

Under the Expropriation Act, Wagner (who says he has other aggrieved businesses waiting to pile on) having served notice must now try to work out a settlement with the named parties. If he can't do that it all goes to the UARB for a ruling.

No word on if any of the money will be repaid if the completed Nova Centre, with its thousands of employees and visitors, results in a windfall for the businesses.

[teddifax]

Here, here!!! I know there are financial hardships for the businesses in the area, but Attica is on Barrington St..... if this goes through and they win , can Nova Centre sue back to get a percentage of the increased sales after construction is finished and business picks up?

[portapetey]

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/2016/06/29/fourth-business-joins-lawsuit-to-recoup-nova-centre-losses.html

They say Nova Scotia lacks opportunity, but people in HRM certainly don't lack opportunism.

[Haliguy]

I'm not sure they have much of a case. How do they prove that it's absolutely the Nova Centre and not other factors that are causing their problems. Increased competition change in trends in where people go and in the case of Wooden Monkey prices that are too high for what you get in imo anyway.

[Keith P.]

I'm not sure they have much of a case. How do they prove that it's absolutely the Nova Centre and not other factors that are causing their problems. Increased competition change in trends in where people go and in the case of Wooden Monkey prices that are too high for what you get in imo anyway.

Once people discovered that Lil MacPherson was a staunch NDPer and close personal pal of Comrade Dexter, I imagine 80% of the population decided to take their business elsewhere anyway. ;)

[Drybrain]

I'm not sure they have much of a case. How do they prove that it's absolutely the Nova Centre and not other factors that are causing their problems. Increased competition change in trends in where people go and in the case of Wooden Monkey prices that are too high for what you get in imo anyway.

I empathize with the business owners, but this is sort of the crux of it: how do they PROVE the downturn is due to the construction? I can see a pretty open-and-shut case for businesses like the Carleton, reliant on patio patrons on Argyle, but the Monkey? I don't know why someone would avoid going there due to construction on a different block. And it's true that a lot of new restaurants and bars have opened downtown in the past couple of years, competing for their patrons. So.

[teddifax]

and don't forget Attica - On Barrington St. is in on this too, what does there location have to do with this fight?

[Jonovision]

https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7480/28075647862_1baa159cd4_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JLX2Yb)20160708_160104_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JLX2Yb) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[Jonovision]

Framing appears to be going up for the yet to be approved changes to the hotel facade.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7325/28076724932_8db16296a7_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JM3y9m)20160708_155655_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JM3y9m) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[IanWatson]

I noticed glass going up on the hotel tower on my walk to work this morning.

[TheGreenBastard]

I noticed glass going up on the hotel tower on my walk to work this morning.

Finally! :cheers:

[Jonovision]

https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8866/28145369462_2cd45e3c72_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JT7nLJ)20160711_135306_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JT7nLJ) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7379/28215407576_8f40f12025_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZikEq)20160711_135416_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JZikEq) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[Jonovision]

Two storey glass curtain wall has begun installation on the curve. It is hard to see in the pic, but it has the green tint as opposed to the blue tint but the size of the window is larger so the overall effect should be less checker board like than the office tower.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8797/27655013004_98069c1e3d_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/J8MaT3)20160712_133301_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/J8MaT3) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

And framing continues on the back side for the brick which also appears to be going in in 2 storey sections. Perhaps they have preassembled brick panels that they will use instead of laying the brick? It would look a lot better if they did that and would come together quiet quickly.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7131/28192262441_eff7a6e9aa_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JXfHqn)20160712_133426_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/JXfHqn) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[Keith P.]

I was surprised to see yesterday as I drove down Sackville St that the Market St side of part of the lower section was clad in chipboard.

[TheGreenBastard]

Glass is going up nicely on the hotel tower.

[someone123]

After all the complaining about blocked views, I can't help but enjoy how frequently the Nova Centre figures into many tourist photos of the Town Clock and Citadel. My impression from these photos is that the view from at least some angles is much improved:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnO-i85WcAAKLz-.jpg
Source (https://twitter.com/oliviamcdonald1/media)

I never really cared for the white Homburg building on its own. It looks better with some taller buildings behind it. I also have the feeling that some people in Halifax like to look at, you know, the city, and don't only want to see panoramic views of woods and water in every direction. Those who do have a lot of other better places to go visit.

[fenwick16]

After all the complaining about blocked views, I can't help but enjoy how frequently the Nova Centre figures into many tourist photos of the Town Clock and Citadel. My impression from these photos is that the view from at least some angles is much improved:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnO-i85WcAAKLz-.jpg
Source (https://twitter.com/oliviamcdonald1/media)

I never really cared for the white Homburg building on its own. It looks better with some taller buildings behind it. I also have the feeling that some people in Halifax like to look at, you know, the city, and don't only want to see panoramic views of woods and water in every direction. Those who do have a lot of other better places to go visit.


Nice find. Whenever I went to the Citadel, I liked the view of the city buildings more than the view of the harbour.

Also the southern view will change for the better with the Pavilion going up and a couple of other projects that have been approved.

[Drybrain]

After all the complaining about blocked views, I can't help but enjoy how frequently the Nova Centre figures into many tourist photos of the Town Clock and Citadel. My impression from these photos is that the view from at least some angles is much improved:



In the course of my job, I was doing some photography for for one of the universities in town. The idea was to get some city imagery from Citadel Hill, but I was instructed to shoot so as not to include the Nova Centre, because a lot of the profs hate it on political and/or aesthetic grounds.

They'd literally like to pretend it doesn't exist, and I had to wonder how long it'll take some people to just accept that it's there, like it or not.

[Hali87]

In the course of my job, I was doing some photography for for one of the universities in town. The idea was to get some city imagery from Citadel Hill, but I was instructed to shoot so as not to include the Nova Centre, because a lot of the profs hate it on political and/or aesthetic grounds.

They'd literally like to pretend it doesn't exist, and I had to wonder how long it'll take some people to just accept that it's there, like it or not.

I think once they start hosting events there (especially events geared at locals, not out-of-town conventioneers) attitudes might start to change. To be honest, the majority of people I know who have an opinion on the Nova Centre are against it and the commonly-agreed-upon (though not necessarily accurate) narrative tends to be:

- The Nova Centre is a huge violation of planning rules
- The Nova Centre is the result of government subsidizing a private developer, basically just giving away our tax dollars to make some obscenely rich person even richer
- Convention centres are a huge waste of money, and we don't need a new one
- The Nova Centre is destroying the character of Argyle Street/Downtown
- It is "corporate" and "for the wealthy fat cats" and is therefore bad
- It had 0 support outside of the wealthy fat cat circle and is being imposed on us anyway

(I don't necessarily agree with any of these statements but to many people I know, most of these are considered basic facts)

[Keith P.]

In the course of my job, I was doing some photography for for one of the universities in town. The idea was to get some city imagery from Citadel Hill, but I was instructed to shoot so as not to include the Nova Centre, because a lot of the profs hate it on political and/or aesthetic grounds.

They'd literally like to pretend it doesn't exist, and I had to wonder how long it'll take some people to just accept that it's there, like it or not.


That is just sad in general terms, and scary in the sense of supposedly well-educated people being so closed-minded and unable to see the benefit of such a facility. It also makes one wonder what they teach the impressionable minds in their classes. The university system in this province needs to be blown up and rebuilt and this just adds to that belief for me.

[scryer]

I think once they start hosting events there (especially events geared at locals, not out-of-town conventioneers) attitudes might start to change.

Even events geared towards out-of-town or international communities will greatly benefit, at least, Halifax's hospitality industry. A convention centre that can get some serious business in winter will have its nearby hotels operating like they are in the middle of their high season. And seeing as how this is a significant piece of convention space in the Atlantic provinces; Halifax could really attract some strong business if it's done right :yes: .

[Drybrain]

To be honest, the majority of people I know who have an opinion on the Nova Centre are against it and the commonly-agreed-upon (though not necessarily accurate) narrative tends to be:

- The Nova Centre is a huge violation of planning rules
- The Nova Centre is the result of government subsidizing a private developer, basically just giving away our tax dollars to make some obscenely rich person even richer
- Convention centres are a huge waste of money, and we don't need a new one
- The Nova Centre is destroying the character of Argyle Street/Downtown
- It is "corporate" and "for the wealthy fat cats" and is therefore bad
- It had 0 support outside of the wealthy fat cat circle and is being imposed on us anyway


There is some validity to some of these perspectives (or to some less sensationalist facts that give rise to these beliefs). I don't personally think it represents a great fiscal investment by the government, and I'm still undecided (though optimistic) as to how it will integrate into the area around it.

But it's there, and it's part of the city now, and no amount of whingeing or pointing our cameras in the other direction will change that.

[OldDartmouthMark]

In the course of my job, I was doing some photography for for one of the universities in town. The idea was to get some city imagery from Citadel Hill, but I was instructed to shoot so as not to include the Nova Centre, because a lot of the profs hate it on political and/or aesthetic grounds.

They'd literally like to pretend it doesn't exist, and I had to wonder how long it'll take some people to just accept that it's there, like it or not.

Or maybe a huge, half-built structure just doesn't look good in 'beauty shots'? Were those reasons actually verbalized to you or was it just idle gossip? If I were paying somebody to get some attractive shots of the downtown to use for advertising or promotion (I don't know what the purpose of your shots were), I wouldn't really want a prominent half-built structure to have centre stage in the shots. It's really not a thing of beauty at the moment.

I'm still on the fence about the whole project, and I suspect that I will always have a relatively equal like/dislike sentiment about it even years after it's done. But like it or not, we're stuck with it for the next half century at least. :2cents:

[OldDartmouthMark]

That is just sad in general terms, and scary in the sense of supposedly well-educated people being so closed-minded and unable to see the benefit of such a facility. It also makes one wonder what they teach the impressionable minds in their classes. The university system in this province needs to be blown up and rebuilt and this just adds to that belief for me.

The university system needs to be blown up and rebuilt? And who's going to pay for it?

Oh Keith, you can be so dramatic sometimes... :rolleyes:

[Keith P.]

The university system needs to be blown up and rebuilt? And who's going to pay for it?

Oh Keith, you can be so dramatic sometimes... :rolleyes:

There are so many opportunities for savings it would easily pay for itself and still return a dividend back to the province.

We have too many universities, too many overpaid Presidents and administrators, too much expensive infrastructure, and too many unproductive 6-figure salary tenured profs who do not care one little bit about the education of their students.

[MonctonRad]

There are so many opportunities for savings it would easily pay for itself and still return a dividend back to the province.

We have too many universities, too many overpaid Presidents and administrators, too much expensive infrastructure, and too many unproductive 6-figure salary tenured profs who do not care one little bit about the education of their students.

And too many of these tenured professors (especially in political science, women's studies and sociology) have wingnut social agendas that they feel they can foist on the malleable psyches of our children in a vain attempt to mold societal norms to fit their own beliefs.

Keith is right. There should be no more than four (maybe five) universities in Nova Scotia, including one overarching "University of Halifax". The administration should be gutted and whole programs of study eliminated. Some programs have no value to society (aside from raising whole new generations of agitators) and very few people would notice if they were eliminated.

Millions of dollars would be saved........

[Keith P.]

And too many of these tenured professors (especially in political science, women's studies and sociology) have wingnut social agendas that they feel they can foist on the malleable psyches of our children in a vain attempt to mold societal norms to fit their own beliefs.

Keith is right. There should be no more than four (maybe five) universities in Nova Scotia, including one overarching "University of Halifax". The administration should be gutted and whole programs of study eliminated. Some programs have no value to society (aside from raising whole new generations of agitators) and very few people would notice if they were eliminated.

Millions of dollars would be saved........


:thankyouthankyou:

:multibow:

[Drybrain]

Or maybe a huge, half-built structure just doesn't look good in 'beauty shots'? Were those reasons actually verbalized to you or was it just idle gossip? If I were paying somebody to get some attractive shots of the downtown to use for advertising or promotion (I don't know what the purpose of your shots were), I wouldn't really want a prominent half-built structure to have centre stage in the shots. It's really not a thing of beauty at the moment.



No, it was very clearly like "if you're going to shoot from the hill, don't include the Nova Centre because it's an urban-planning disaster." (Or something like that.) By that standard, the Cogswell should be cropped out of all photography of the city, now and forever.

I don't think "wingnuts" had anything to do with it though, Monctonrad and Keith. Shutting down the universities to save money would not be a wise decision. I'd certainly be a lot less interested in living in a Nova Scotia without the wealth generated by the universities: income and other taxes derived from students/staff/faculty; incubation for new enterprises in business, medicine, arts, science and more; and a hell of a lot of cultural vitality that otherwise wouldn't exist.

Not to mention the people. The students and faculties of those schools bring a lot of interesting, creative, intelligent people to this city and province. Maybe you guys think losing a few eggheads is no big deal, but there's a reason a city of 400,000 punches so far above its weight in so many ways. The relative size and vitality of our educational institutions is a big part of that.

[Keith P.]

I don't think "wingnuts" had anything to do with it though, Monctonrad and Keith. Shutting down the universities to save money would not be a wise decision. I'd certainly be a lot less interested in living in a Nova Scotia without the wealth generated by the universities: income and other taxes derived from students/staff/faculty; incubation for new enterprises in business, medicine, arts, science and more; and a hell of a lot of cultural vitality that otherwise wouldn't exist.

Not to mention the people. The students and faculties of those schools bring a lot of interesting, creative, intelligent people to this city and province. Maybe you guys think losing a few eggheads is no big deal, but there's a reason a city of 400,000 punches so far above its weight in so many ways. The relative size and vitality of our educational institutions is a big part of that.


Nobody is suggesting that the universities be shut down. But since you and me and every other NS taxpayer is on the hook for 60 cents of every dollar the universities spend, we should be demanding that they stop wasting our money.

[someone123]

No, it was very clearly like "if you're going to shoot from the hill, don't include the Nova Centre because it's an urban-planning disaster." (Or something like that.) By that standard, the Cogswell should be cropped out of all photography of the city, now and forever.

It seems juvenile to me. Whether you were for or against it, the buildings are there, and they will most likely continue to be there for a long time.

The structure of the university system is a big issue to tackle but I will say that a lot of profs say stuff that's shockingly entitled and out of touch with most people, including students. There are a few South Ender profs who are very privileged and don't want the city to evolve if they think it might have any tiny downsides for them, even if others must pay a huge cost. A few of the BANANAs are profs at Dal and SMU.

[OldDartmouthMark]

No, it was very clearly like "if you're going to shoot from the hill, don't include the Nova Centre because it's an urban-planning disaster." (Or something like that.) By that standard, the Cogswell should be cropped out of all photography of the city, now and forever.

I don't think "wingnuts" had anything to do with it though, Monctonrad and Keith. Shutting down the universities to save money would not be a wise decision. I'd certainly be a lot less interested in living in a Nova Scotia without the wealth generated by the universities: income and other taxes derived from students/staff/faculty; incubation for new enterprises in business, medicine, arts, science and more; and a hell of a lot of cultural vitality that otherwise wouldn't exist.

Not to mention the people. The students and faculties of those schools bring a lot of interesting, creative, intelligent people to this city and province. Maybe you guys think losing a few eggheads is no big deal, but there's a reason a city of 400,000 punches so far above its weight in so many ways. The relative size and vitality of our educational institutions is a big part of that.

OK, yeah that seems a little effed up.

[OldDartmouthMark]

There are so many opportunities for savings it would easily pay for itself and still return a dividend back to the province.

We have too many universities, too many overpaid Presidents and administrators, too much expensive infrastructure, and too many unproductive 6-figure salary tenured profs who do not care one little bit about the education of their students.

So, we should eliminate some universities because too many people are being educated here? How much per capita is it costing the taxpayers of Nova Scotia to support all these universities vs other provinces and how does that balance out with the money that these students and their families put back into our economy? How does the size of the faculty/student body compare to the much larger universities located in other provinces?

Are six-figure salary tenured profs unique to Nova Scotia universities? How many more of those do we have in our province vs other provinces?

[OldDartmouthMark]

And too many of these tenured professors (especially in political science, women's studies and sociology) have wingnut social agendas that they feel they can foist on the malleable psyches of our children in a vain attempt to mold societal norms to fit their own beliefs.

Keith is right. There should be no more than four (maybe five) universities in Nova Scotia, including one overarching "University of Halifax". The administration should be gutted and whole programs of study eliminated. Some programs have no value to society (aside from raising whole new generations of agitators) and very few people would notice if they were eliminated.

Millions of dollars would be saved........

So our universities are polluting the malleable minds of our young people with thoughts of political change, feminism and social awareness? We need to eliminate whole programs of study so that we can eliminate thoughts of need for change?

How will amalgamating smaller universities into a larger one make things more efficient?

Should we start burning books?

[OldDartmouthMark]

It seems juvenile to me. Whether you were for or against it, the buildings are there, and they will most likely continue to be there for a long time.

The structure of the university system is a big issue to tackle but I will say that a lot of profs say stuff that's shockingly entitled and out of touch with most people, including students. There are a few South Ender profs who are very privileged and don't want the city to evolve if they think it might have any tiny downsides for them, even if others must pay a huge cost. A few of the BANANAs are profs at Dal and SMU.

So the profs who work at NS universities are different than profs in other parts of the country?

I find this whole discussion about NS universities quite perplexing. I had no idea that we were so unique in that matter. :shrug:

[Drybrain]

Nobody is suggesting that the universities be shut down. But since you and me and every other NS taxpayer is on the hook for 60 cents of every dollar the universities spend, we should be demanding that they stop wasting our money.

You and MonctonRad both said that there are too many profs and too many programs of study. MR said there should be no more than four or five universities in the province, which, ipso facto, means some would have to close.

Anyway, yeah, there are some profs out there who say ridiculous things, who for the tenures-radical stereotype to a tee. But they comprise a very, very small proportion of the total. They're an easy target when you want to take potshots at the whole system though.

Trust me, most profs roll their eyes at the Larry Haiven-types too.

[Keith P.]

Just as some of the tenured profs are very out of touch with reality, the university administration here is equally out of touch with fiscal reality. The unis have not been forced to justify their spending by govt, hence their ability to pay retired Presidents $400K salaries for years after they left the building, and continuing to build ever more lavish palaces on campus. The cost of tuition has spiraled out of control as they download more and more of the runaway costs onto students.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Just as some of the tenured profs are very out of touch with reality, the university administration here is equally out of touch with fiscal reality. The unis have not been forced to justify their spending by govt, hence their ability to pay retired Presidents $400K salaries for years after they left the building, and continuing to build ever more lavish palaces on campus. The cost of tuition has spiraled out of control as they download more and more of the runaway costs onto students.

Is this different from universities in other provinces?

[JET]

I do wonder when Dal will decide it has enough big new buildings; maybe they're nice to look at, but somebody is paying for it. Universities may be building may be building new accessible buildings, but they are increasingly less accessible by people of limited means.

[Drybrain]

Just as some of the tenured profs are very out of touch with reality, the university administration here is equally out of touch with fiscal reality. The unis have not been forced to justify their spending by govt, hence their ability to pay retired Presidents $400K salaries for years after they left the building, and continuing to build ever more lavish palaces on campus. The cost of tuition has spiraled out of control as they download more and more of the runaway costs onto students.

Suffice to say that I actually agree with you, to some degree. There is a problem with salaries (though it tends to be greatly exaggerated) and capital costs for new construction and other new projects are, IMO, above and beyond what is actually necessary.

Having said that, this city and province still get more than enough out of the post-secondary presence to make it worthwhile, whether we're talking demographically, culturally, or economically. And it's worth nothing as well that funding to many of our universities is not increasing at the pace of enrollment increases, and at other universities is actually shrinking. The universities don't have an unlimited geyser of public cash, and they know it, even if their spending decisions seem to indicate otherwise.

[IanWatson]

I did my undergrad at Queen's University in Ontario and the problem of building shiny new buildings was the same, if not worse, there. I'm talking like $230 million new student centre.

On the surface you can see why it happens. People donating money to a school want to see its impact. The school can point to a shiny new building and say, "Thanks for your $10 mil! Look how much good you've done." It's not quite as sexy to say, "Thanks for your $10 mil! You've covered our snow removal budget for the next five years."

There's also the motivation to compete with other schools. Shiny new buildings show well during campus tours. Unfortunately, reviewing the school's financial sustainability isn't a key stop on the tour.

So this is not a problem constrained to NS. How do we fix it? I don't really know...

[Drybrain]

I did my undergrad at Queen's University in Ontario and the problem of building shiny new buildings was the same, if not worse, there. I'm talking like $500 million new student centre.

On the surface you can see why it happens. People donating money to a school want to see its impact. The school can point to a shiny new building and say, "Thanks for your $10 mil! Look how much good you've done." It's not quite as sexy to say, "Thanks for your $10 mil! You've covered our snow removal budget for the next five years."

There's also the motivation to compete with other schools. Shiny new buildings show well during campus tours. Unfortunately, reviewing the school's financial sustainability isn't a key stop on the tour.

So this is not a problem constrained to NS. How do we fix it? I don't really know...

My alma mater's newest no-expense-spared megaproject (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ML92uU-lbQ).

Is it awesome? Yes.

Did it cost $112 million? Also yes.

Does its usefulness to students and impact upon the university merit that expense? Well...I honestly don't know.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Thanks guys, it's as I suspected in that it's endemic to university systems in general and not some specific blight on NS universities that would reasonably bring on a comment that the university system in this province needs to be blown up, universities need to be closed down, etc etc.

As for tuition being overpriced: yes, it's expensive to attend university but seriously try to price up a similar education in the US and you will find Canadian universities to be a bargain - yes, subsidized by our tax dollars but that's the price of attainable education for all. Said education pays back society far more than the face-value dollar amount invested, you can be sure.

And I question the attitude that profs are feeding students a bunch of drivel that they accept without question. You are seriously underestimating the intelligence of students if you actually believe that. The function of university is to teach you to think, not to feed you information that you blindly accept - that hasn't changed since my university days.

Does the system need improvement? I think so. Is it FUBAR? No.

Gawd, some of the rhetoric I read here just has me shaking my head sometimes...

[OldDartmouthMark]

My alma mater's newest no-expense-spared megaproject (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ML92uU-lbQ).

Is it awesome? Yes.

Did it cost $112 million? Also yes.

Does its usefulness to students and impact upon the university merit that expense? Well...I honestly don't know.

The interior vibe actually reminds me a lot of the Halifax Central Library... :tup:

[Keith P.]

Thanks guys, it's as I suspected in that it's endemic to university systems in general and not some specific blight on NS universities that would reasonably bring on a comment that the university system in this province needs to be blown up, universities need to be closed down, etc etc.

As for tuition being overpriced: yes, it's expensive to attend university but seriously try to price up a similar education in the US and you will find Canadian universities to be a bargain - yes, subsidized by our tax dollars but that's the price of attainable education for all. Said education pays back society far more than the face-value dollar amount invested, you can be sure.

And I question the attitude that profs are feeding students a bunch of drivel that they accept without question. You are seriously underestimating the intelligence of students if you actually believe that. The function of university is to teach you to think, not to feed you information that you blindly accept - that hasn't changed since my university days.

Does the system need improvement? I think so. Is it FUBAR? No.

Gawd, some of the rhetoric I read here just has me shaking my head sometimes...


As is often the case, you are dead wrong.

The problem identified is indeed endemic to most universities in North America these days. Many articles have been written about it. Yet nobody has taken on the university leaders to fix it. The unis in the USA that are changing big money are essentially privately run, so there is no motivation for govts to get involved. But in Canada taxpayers foot the bill for over half of the cost, so one has to wonder why no political leader has hit the mule upside the head with a 2x4. The reason is that university governance has not changed in over a century. They are ostensibly "private" institutions as well in most instances, with a Board of governors and senate that has only token representation from govt and which does little to stop the out of control administration. They are tremendously resistant to change - since some very cushy jobs are at stake - and entitled faculty unions only add to that problem.

The only way to bring them into line is to force them into becoming part of the public education system. Blow up the university Senates, blow up their Boards of Governors, and pass legislation making them an agency of govt, subject to govt controls. Inflation over the last 40 years has been a bit over 300%. The inflation rate for university tuition is about 3 times that depending on the institution.

We indeed have a problem.

[OldDartmouthMark]

As is often the case, you are dead wrong.

The problem identified is indeed endemic to most universities in North America these days. Many articles have been written about it. Yet nobody has taken on the university leaders to fix it. The unis in the USA that are changing big money are essentially privately run, so there is no motivation for govts to get involved. But in Canada taxpayers foot the bill for over half of the cost, so one has to wonder why no political leader has hit the mule upside the head with a 2x4. The reason is that university governance has not changed in over a century. They are ostensibly "private" institutions as well in most instances, with a Board of governors and senate that has only token representation from govt and which does little to stop the out of control administration. They are tremendously resistant to change - since some very cushy jobs are at stake - and entitled faculty unions only add to that problem.

The only way to bring them into line is to force them into becoming part of the public education system. Blow up the university Senates, blow up their Boards of Governors, and pass legislation making them an agency of govt, subject to govt controls. Inflation over the last 40 years has been a bit over 300%. The inflation rate for university tuition is about 3 times that depending on the institution.

We indeed have a problem.

As is often the case, you resort to personal insults rather than address the questions I posed in my previous posts. Then you state 'facts' in a dramatic fashion with no sources to back them up.

As usual, I have little to no interest in reading what you have to say.

Have a nice day, KP. :rolleyes:

[RangerNS]

You and MonctonRad both said that there are too many profs and too many programs of study. MR said there should be no more than four or five universities in the province, which, ipso facto, means some would have to close.


Yes and no.

In the last 5 years Dalhousie has taken over the Agriculture College, and NSCAD was under threat of... more aggressive measures taken if they didn't fix themselves (everyone knew this to mean Dal or SMU would take over admin). Not quite a generation ago, Dal took over TUNS, too.

Not quite "closed", in the sense of "able to have fewer students", but it does seem that Dal is the meta-NS university to join up actually different basic programs. Université Sainte-Anne should be scared, as should the Gaelic College (CBU may be safe, no one is fooled that its not a glorified higher school).

Outside this umbrella of the Dalhousie letterhead taking over everything, there is unquestionably shared services going on, in purchasing, in IT systems, in the library systems, etc.

Letting Dal take over the likes of NSCAD and the AC who couldn't efficent themselves out of a paper bag makes sense; having Dal and SMU get the same shared rate with Amazon makes sense. But there is some upper limit to the effective size of, say, an English department; forcing Dal and SMU to share a dean wouldn't make any sense.

[teddifax]

Shouldn't this ongoing discussion be elsewhere, not on this portion of the Forum? It is not related to the Nova Centre.

[Keith P.]

Oh Keith, you can be so dramatic sometimes... :rolleyes:


Gawd, some of the rhetoric I read here just has me shaking my head sometimes...

As is often the case, you resort to personal insults rather than address the questions I posed in my previous posts.

Seems to me you can dish it out, but don't like to take it.

[TheGreenBastard]

Hey kids it's nap time, go to the corner with your juice and lay down.




But in all seriousness this has nothing to do with the Nova Centre.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Seems to me you can dish it out, but don't like to take it.

Likewise, my friend. And again, never actually providing any factual content to deal with challenges to your assertions.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Hey kids it's nap time, go to the corner with your juice and lay down.




But in all seriousness this has nothing to do with the Nova Centre.

Agreed. Enough of this nonsense.

I apologize for becoming involved in it.

Yeesh. :rolleyes:

[hoser111]

I think they're going with this design

http://www.metronews.ca/content/dam/thestar/uploads/2016/4/14/screen-shot-2016-04-11-at-12-12-11-pm.png

How about back on topic..... I know we already have a Radisson suites here, but anyone else think the Radisson Hotel Admiral Toronto Harbour front has the same vibe? Can't help but wonder if this is what's reaaaaally driving the requested changes. Aimlessly pondering....

https://exp.cdn-hotels.com/hotels/1000000/10000/7400/7352/7352_89_z.jpg

[Haliguy]

How about back on topic..... I know we already have a Radisson suites here, but anyone else think the Radisson Hotel Admiral Toronto Harbour front has the same vibe? Can't help but wonder if this is what's reaaaaally driving the requested changes. Aimlessly pondering....

https://exp.cdn-hotels.com/hotels/1000000/10000/7400/7352/7352_89_z.jpg

Good point..they do look very similar!

[q12]

How about back on topic..... I know we already have a Radisson suites here, but anyone else think the Radisson Hotel Admiral Toronto Harbour front has the same vibe? Can't help but wonder if this is what's reaaaaally driving the requested changes. Aimlessly pondering....

https://exp.cdn-hotels.com/hotels/1000000/10000/7400/7352/7352_89_z.jpg

The Radisson in Halifax is now a DoubleTree by Hilton.

[Jonovision]

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8741/27842892793_aaae389968_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Jqo6ZK)20160721_154344 (https://flic.kr/p/Jqo6ZK) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8203/27842407524_903335f494_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JqkBK3)20160721_154213 (https://flic.kr/p/JqkBK3) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[Jonovision]

https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8811/27895288324_9a4b7ad8f0_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Jv1DmY)20160724_071156 (https://flic.kr/p/Jv1DmY) by Jonovision23 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/36229421@N02/), on Flickr

[RoshanMcG]

http://i65.tinypic.com/34nlcg4.jpg

[fenwick16]

The Nova Centre looks very impressive and unique from this perspective. Thank you for posting the picture RoshanMcG.