[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Ziobrop]

I suspect this is a common way to do it. why worry about trying to form and then need to backfill in that tight a space.

[Ziobrop]

I suspect this is a common way to do it. why worry about trying to form and then need to backfill in that tight a space.

Nope i was wrong, they are forming it. Giant steel plates arrived on site this morning, and were being lowered into place behind the rebar.

Watch your fingers..
http://24.media.tumblr.com/c311f4483d848e8cb9e3e6c2e0ce3d7d/tumblr_mub7vx9vjf1sjmgsso1_500.jpg

-Peter
blog.builthalifax.ca

[fenwick16]

Nope i was wrong, they are forming it. Giant steel plates arrived on site this morning, and were being lowered into place behind the rebar.

Watch your fingers..
http://24.media.tumblr.com/c311f4483d848e8cb9e3e6c2e0ce3d7d/tumblr_mub7vx9vjf1sjmgsso1_500.jpg

-Peter
blog.builthalifax.ca

Very interesting - thanks for the updates. I wonder if it is required so they can waterproof the exterior of the concrete wall. Even with bedrock there are apt to be cracks where water can flow into the underground areas. (this is just my guess at why it might be necessary to have a separation between the wall and bedrock).

I hope that you will continue with all the pictures - http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/. It really is fascinating to see how the Nova Centre is being built.

[ns_kid]

The lower level could have be connected to the pedway system through the Prince George Hotel. It could still be done.

You've raised an interesting question. I have not seen anywhere in the plans for Nova Centre a connection -- above or below grade -- with the downtown link. This seems so fundamental, a weather-proof indoor passage to other downtown hotels, shopping and the Metro Centre, should we expect HRM to address it in the final approval process?

[teddifax]

You've raised an interesting question. I have not seen anywhere in the plans for Nova Centre a connection -- above or below grade -- with the downtown link. This seems so fundamental, a weather-proof indoor passage to other downtown hotels, shopping and the Metro Centre, should we expect HRM to address it in the final approval process?

I would've thought that to be a forgone conclusion, hopefully it will be a part of this development. I think any new development downtown should have this interconnection wherever possible. This is especially important to link up all the hotels to the convention center.

[Keith P.]

There are grade challenges to connecting Nova Center to the Metro Center via the existing link. You would have to go uphill to the Prince George then Back down. It would make more sense (but be more expensive) to go straight towards the MC via a tunnel under Grafton St.

[Phalanx]

That question was asked (about a connection to the Link) several times during the public consultations, and they said it would be addressed in the Q&A on the website, but I don't recall ever seeing an answer.

[Nifta]

Halifax Link could really do with better Street Signage and a few maps. I've lived here three years now and don't know where most of the tunnels are. It could do with having a consistent Logo near the entrances, and maps, so people can spot the entrances and understand how they can get around using it.

[Ziobrop]

the biggest problem with the tunnels would be connecting with the Prince George. Since the tunnel ends there, currently, and takes you up to the lobby, for it to be continuous, the Prince George would have to re-configure itself.

it would make sense to do it, though the costs/loss of parking may make them reluctant.

[KnoxfordGuy]

Those cranes are blocking my view!!!! :hell::hell:

I assume you are joking, right? Like, for reals.

[RyeJay]

I assume you are joking, right? Like, for reals.

:)
Mocking 'heritage types', or at least the perceived extremists in the spectrum of Haligonians who wish to preserve some of the downtown's older characteristics, is an occasional occurrence on this forum.

I'm glad the Nova Centre will block a significant portion of the Citadel's view of the harbour. Towers add tons of interest. There are viewplanes for harbour views.

[Wishblade]

:)
Mocking 'heritage types', or at least the perceived extremists in the spectrum of Haligonians who wish to preserve some of the downtown's older characteristics, is an occasional occurrence on this forum.

I'm glad the Nova Centre will block a significant portion of the Citadel's view of the harbour. Towers add tons of interest. There are viewplanes for harbour views.

This. And I know HaliStreaks well enough to know their definitely being sarcastic lol.

And in regards to Citadel Hill, the only reason I ever go up there is in fact to look at the city/buildings. The harbour is a secondary attraction.

[KnoxfordGuy]

This. And I know HaliStreaks well enough to know their definitely being sarcastic lol.

And in regards to Citadel Hill, the only reason I ever go up there is in fact to look at the city/buildings. The harbour is a secondary attraction.

Agreed.

[OldDartmouthMark]

And in regards to Citadel Hill, the only reason I ever go up there is in fact to look at the city/buildings. The harbour is a secondary attraction.

In the few times I've been up on the Citadel in recent years, it was to enjoy the view of the harbour, but lately I don't tend to go up there more than once a year it seems. Might be a bit of a loss for tourists, but probably wouldn't make much difference as they are there for the historical site rather than the view.

Personally, I'd enjoy the view just as much from a rooftop restaurant, pub or coffee shop in a tall building. If they were ever to consider this type of attraction for the Nova Centre, combining it with a deck with free access to the public to enjoy the view, I think it would be a bonus for Halifax.

Being from here, and appreciating how much vitality, history and character the harbour has brought to Halifax/Dartmouth/Bedford, I do think that preserving at least a part of the view of the harbour for the general public is something that still needs to be kept in mind, whether the view is from the Citadel or other places where the public has free access to. Selling the view to the highest bidder (or in this case whomever has the highest building) seems a little selfish on some level. That said, this is a skyscraper enthusiasts' website, and I can appreciate the viewpoint of those who prefer tall buildings over the preservation of views for the public - I get it even if I don't necessarily agree completely with it. :2cents:

[Aya_Akai]

I assume you are joking, right? Like, for reals.

Oh that was posted with the sarcasm meter up to 11. LOL

I have to say the same, I usually only hit up citadel hill once or twice a year.. and when I do, it's to go up and look at the buildings.. and to pretend what buildings will be there in the future to block out different parts of the harbour..: :notacrook:

[Hali6821]

Some recent pictures of the site:

http://imgur.com/a/5pV4T

Expect to see the third crane on site in early November.

[RyeJay]

Some recent pictures of the site:

http://imgur.com/a/5pV4T

Expect to see the third crane on site in early November.

Very cool!!

Thank you so much -- and welcome to the forum :cheers:

[teddifax]

Wow. a great new perspective, thanks!

[KnoxfordGuy]

We don't often get that perspective. Awesome! Thanks!

[fenwick16]

Thank you Hali6821. It is interesting to see ground level perspective.

[teddifax]

Just curious, has anyone ever heard any mention of the luxury hotel component of Nova Centre? I wonder which hotel has been earmarked for this!

[fenwick16]

There was a story in allnovascotia.com, October 11th, 2013 edition "Ramia at Design Review" by Amy Pugsley Fraser that stated that Joe Ramia presented detailed design drawings to City Hall's Design Review Committee on Thursday, Oct 10th.

There will be a public meeting on October 24th at Dalhousie University's Computer Science Building. Hopefully some members of this forum will go and get more detailed information regarding the Nova Centre design.

[RyeJay]

There was a story in allnovascotia.com, October 11th, 2013 edition "Ramia at Design Review" by Amy Pugsley Fraser that stated that Joe Ramia presented detailed design drawings to City Hall's Design Review Committee on Thursday, Oct 10th.

There will be a public meeting on October 24th at Dalhousie University's Computer Science Building. Hopefully some members of this forum will go and get more detailed information regarding the Nova Centre design.

Thanks for the update, fenwick!
I'll try to go (but I need to see if I can get time off work).

New renderings should be revealed during this public meeting :)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Some recent pictures of the site:

http://imgur.com/a/5pV4T

Expect to see the third crane on site in early November.

That's a pretty amazing excavation. Thanks for the pics!

[halifaxboyns]

This (http://www.halifax.ca/municipalclerk/documents/18708SiteandBuildingPlansandImagesoftheProposal.pdf) is the package of drawings I found on the design review committee agenda. They don't really seem to be new to me?

This (http://www.halifax.ca/municipalclerk/documents/18708Prelim_Landscape_IBI_Group.pdf) is the landscaping plan.

[fenwick16]

This (http://www.halifax.ca/municipalclerk/documents/18708SiteandBuildingPlansandImagesoftheProposal.pdf) is the package of drawings I found on the design review committee agenda. They don't really seem to be new to me?

This (http://www.halifax.ca/municipalclerk/documents/18708Prelim_Landscape_IBI_Group.pdf) is the landscaping plan.

No that isn't new. It must not be finalized though, since levels L1, L5 and L6 (Exhibition Hall and Ballroom levels) are just blank areas. I was hoping to see the layout of these areas and how much of the space will be column-free (some of these areas will require support columns as can be seen on the other floor plans).

Maybe detailed drawings aren't required by the Design Review Committee. I wonder which departments of government will approve the Exhibition Hall and Ballroom layouts? These areas have a note stating "Pending Approval" (certainly such drawings will be required by the engineering/planning department so that the building permits can be approved).

[sdm]

No that isn't new. It must not be finalized though, since levels L1, L5 and L6 (Exhibition Hall and Ballroom levels) are just blank areas. I was hoping to see the layout of these areas and how much of the space will be column-free (some of these areas will require support columns as can be seen on the other floor plans).

Maybe detailed drawings aren't required by the Design Review Committee. I wonder which departments of government will approve the Exhibition Hall and Ballroom layouts? These areas have a note stating "Pending Approval" (certainly such drawings will be required by the engineering/planning department so that the building permits can be approved).

Full working drawings are required for review process I am pretty sure.

[ns_kid]

I wonder which departments of government will approve the Exhibition Hall and Ballroom layouts? These areas have a note stating "Pending Approval" (certainly such drawings will be required by the engineering/planning department so that the building permits can be approved).

I believe the plans for the convention centre portion of the project, which is the only part in which there are public (federal/provincial/municipal) contributions, will be subject to the approval of the Nova Scotia Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal. Presumably it will be some time after next Tuesday's swearing in of a new cabinet before that will be resolved.

[ns_kid]

Just curious, has anyone ever heard any mention of the luxury hotel component of Nova Centre? I wonder which hotel has been earmarked for this!

The last I heard on this subject, the developer had not announced any brand for the hotel development. Chatter on the street was that he was having trouble interesting a major chain, but Mr. Ramia has been consistently coy about sharing information about negotiations with potential partners and tenants so your guess is as good as mine.

[fenwick16]

There are lots of daily construction pictures by Ziobrop at this link - http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/. I see that they are spreading the gravel for the concrete floor.

Once the first parking level is complete then the second level should be completed in a fraction of the time (there will be no addition footings or other ground-work). I am looking forward to seeing the Exhibition Hall take shape (3rd level from the ground); then it will be starting to rise above Argyle Street.

[ns_kid]

Once the first parking level is complete then the second level should be completed in a fraction of the time (there will be no addition footings or other ground-work). I am looking forward to seeing the Exhibition Hall take shape (3rd level from the ground); then it will be starting to rise above Argyle Street.

I think we are all looking forward to that moment, though it should be noted that, at this point, the developer only has permission to complete the subgrade portions of Nova Centre, courtesy of an Interim Planning Area Order by the Province. Nothing will rise above Argyle until HRM approves the developer's final design plans.

[Ziobrop]

I think we are all looking forward to that moment, though it should be noted that, at this point, the developer only has permission to complete the subgrade portions of Nova Centre, courtesy of an Interim Planning Area Order by the Province. Nothing will rise above Argyle until HRM approves the developer's final design plans.

I also dont think the province has signed off on the convention center portion of the project yet.- they have agreed to it, hey just haven't signed the document.

this has implications for HRM, as the current trade center wont be put up for sale untill that happens, and HRM is on the hook to buy it if it doesn't sell by 2016 iirc.

[ns_kid]

There will be a public meeting on October 24th at Dalhousie University's Computer Science Building. Hopefully some members of this forum will go and get more detailed information regarding the Nova Centre design.

Just bumping up this discussion. Information about Thursday's Nova Centre public meeting, along with details of Argyle Developments' application for amendments to the planning strategy and land use by-law, can be found on the HRM website:

A public information meeting has been scheduled for Thursday, October 24, 2013 at 7:00 p.m. at Dalhousie University Computer Science Building (CIBC Auditorium - Room 127), 6050 University Avenue, Halifax.

http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case18708Details.html

[RyeJay]

^ I cannot make it to the meeting to get any pictures. I hope someone else can!

[ns_kid]

I was unable to attend last night's public Nova Centre meeting; I was hoping to see some feedback from a forum member who did attend.

Roger Taylor's piece in today's Herald restates what has already been known for some time: the original concept for the structure has been changed considerably, in large part due to the extensive public consultation. Taylor also restates earlier assertions that securing HRM approvals will take up to eight months, which is why the city asked the province to allow subgrade work to proceed by way of interim planning area order.

One commenter on Taylor's piece, a jwchisholm, who claims to have attended last night's session, dismisses what he sees as "three soul-destroying blankly-inhuman mega blocks where nothing will ever happen". Like many critics, including the Coast's Tim Bousquet, he seems to dismiss the results of the public consultation as invalid. Which is consistent with development sceptics generally, who demand public engagement but then dismiss the results of that engagement if it doesn't reflect their own narrow vision.

As to whether Nova Centre will be successful I do not know. I have optimism that this project will succeed. Like chisholm I find it disquieting that Mr. Ramia is still unwilling or unable to identify a single major tenant or hotel brand. Unlike some critics, Pacey, Bousquet and Kimber included, I will not celebrate a failure.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1162752-taylor-nova-centre-deserves-fair-start#disqus_thread

[mcmcclassic]

I was unable to attend last night's public Nova Centre meeting; I was hoping to see some feedback from a forum member who did attend.

Roger Taylor's piece in today's Herald restates what has already been known for some time: the original concept for the structure has been changed considerably, in large part due to the extensive public consultation. Taylor also restates earlier assertions that securing HRM approvals will take up to eight months, which is why the city asked the province to allow subgrade work to proceed by way of interim planning area order.

One commenter on Taylor's piece, a jwchisholm, who claims to have attended last night's session, dismisses what he sees as "three soul-destroying blankly-inhuman mega blocks where nothing will ever happen". Like many critics, including the Coast's Tim Bousquet, he seems to dismiss the results of the public consultation as invalid. Which is consistent with development sceptics generally, who demand public engagement but then dismiss the results of that engagement if it doesn't reflect their own narrow vision.

As to whether Nova Centre will be successful I do not know. I have optimism that this project will succeed. Like chisholm I find it disquieting that Mr. Ramia is still unwilling or unable to identify a single major tenant or hotel brand. Unlike some critics, Pacey, Bousquet and Kimber included, I will not celebrate a failure.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1162752-taylor-nova-centre-deserves-fair-start#disqus_thread

The jwchisholm you refer to is a man name John Wesley Chisholm - a pretty active voice on city issues and matters. That being said, John seems to have been against the Nova Centre from day 1 (from other comments I've read from him) and this is just one more to get his point across again.

Again there's nothing wrong with having an alternate opinion on a development, but I sometimes feel "jwchisholm" is a bit melodramatic. I too agree though that there is a lot up in the air in regards to the Nova Centre, but I am staying optimistic that good will come out of this project.

[Keith P.]

The jwchisholm you refer to is a man name John Wesley Chisholm - a pretty active voice on city issues and matters. That being said, John seems to have been against the Nova Centre from day 1 (from other comments I've read from him) and this is just one more to get his point across again.

Again there's nothing wrong with having an alternate opinion on a development, but I sometimes feel "jwchisholm" is a bit melodramatic. I too agree though that there is a lot up in the air in regards to the Nova Centre, but I am staying optimistic that good will come out of this project.

Melodramatic is one word that describes him. He is allegedly a filmmaker so perhaps that has something to do with it. He is a downtown gadfly, an expert on everything in his mind. You are correct in that he has been an opponent of this from the start. His opinions can and should be dismissed.

They need to get on with this. You can consult until the cows come home but at some point it becomes a worthless exercise in self-flagellation. The place just needs to get built.

[resetcbu1]

Melodramatic is one word that describes him. He is allegedly a filmmaker so perhaps that has something to do with it. He is a downtown gadfly, an expert on everything in his mind. You are correct in that he has been an opponent of this from the start. His opinions can and should be dismissed.

They need to get on with this. You can consult until the cows come home but at some point it becomes a worthless exercise in self-flagellation. The place just needs to get built.

I couldn't agree. More, this has been ongoing for so many years that if most if not all opinion have been stated for or against and if you haven't spoke up by this point too bad. Shit or get off the pot!

[someone123]

Is it really significant that they haven't announced a hotel chain given that they still don't have approval to build the hotel?

There's a group of people who will never be happy with the Nova Centre. Their opinions may have been relevant back when the project was first contemplated but if they have nothing new to offer now then it's time to ignore them and move on. The debate over whether or not to build the development is settled.

[teddifax]

Is it really significant that they haven't announced a hotel chain given that they still don't have approval to build the hotel?

There's a group of people who will never be happy with the Nova Centre. Their opinions may have been relevant back when the project was first contemplated but if they have nothing new to offer now then it's time to ignore them and move on. The debate over whether or not to build the development is settled.

I have been wondering for some time about the hotel component of this project. No name has ever been mentioned, but Ramia way back when hinted he had been involved in talks with prospective client(s). Maybe, once the final approval is given and construction actually starts, we may find out the chain. It is supposed to be a High-End hotel, so it should be something not even in the overall area of Atlantic Canada, let alone here in Halifax metro.

Oh, and for all the naysayers, I agree, get over it. The project is being built. Let's move on and let this project be!

[eastcoastal]

...
Roger Taylor's piece in today's Herald restates what has already been known for some time: the original concept for the structure has been changed considerably, in large part due to the extensive public consultation. Taylor also restates earlier assertions that securing HRM approvals will take up to eight months, which is why the city asked the province to allow subgrade work to proceed by way of interim planning area order.
...

It is possible that the sub-grade work progress could be used to pressure the Design Review Committee to pass a development that otherwise might not be passed. I don't have a huge hate-on for this building, but I do have to say that closing a public street is counter to what is generally accepted as good practice in urban design. The current planning and development bylaws expressly prohibit that... even the old MPS and bylaws recognized that was one of the massive failures of mid-century attempts at urban revitalization.

...One commenter on Taylor's piece, a jwchisholm, who claims to have attended last night's session, dismisses what he sees as "three soul-destroying blankly-inhuman mega blocks where nothing will ever happen". Like many critics, including the Coast's Tim Bousquet, he seems to dismiss the results of the public consultation as invalid. Which is consistent with development sceptics generally, who demand public engagement but then dismiss the results of that engagement if it doesn't reflect their own narrow vision.
...

I don't know that the blocks will be soul destroying - but they have the potential to be street-level-urban-life killers. I haven't read his comments, but if they are about the poor decision to close off Grafton St., I have to say that I don't think the point of public input was to say that the street should no longer be open, but that the convention components be moved out of the basement. I can't believe that it's either/or.

...

As to whether Nova Centre will be successful I do not know. I have optimism that this project will succeed. Like chisholm I find it disquieting that Mr. Ramia is still unwilling or unable to identify a single major tenant or hotel brand. Unlike some critics, Pacey, Bousquet and Kimber included, I will not celebrate a failure.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1162752-taylor-nova-centre-deserves-fair-start#disqus_thread

I hope it succeeds too. I'm not very optimistic about some of the basic urban design moves, but I think anyone who complains about it being too tall is out-to-lunch.

[RyeJay]

Is it really significant that they haven't announced a hotel chain given that they still don't have approval to build the hotel?

And even if a hotel isn't in the cards, the tower may be developed as residential.

[bluenoser]

The aforementioned article has a shot from the Prince St. side that I don't think we (I) have seen.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_image/articles/B97242795Z.120131024184402000G0L41EUT.11.jpg

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1162752-taylor-nova-centre-deserves-fair-start

[ns_kid]

I do have to say that closing a public street is counter to what is generally accepted as good practice in urban design.

I think it is worth noting, when the issue of closing Grafton Street is raised, that is to be closed to vehicular traffic, not pedestrian traffic. Pedestrians will still be able to walk from Sackville to Prince Street on the Grafton Street corridor. Personally I have no problem with closing one city block to cars; in fact, I'd say lets close a few more.

[Ziobrop]

I think it is worth noting, when the issue of closing Grafton Street is raised, that is to be closed to vehicular traffic, not pedestrian traffic. Pedestrians will still be able to walk from Sackville to Prince Street on the Grafton Street corridor. Personally I have no problem with closing one city block to cars; in fact, I'd say lets close a few more.

Grafton will be pedestrian accessible - so i think it might be a workable space. the problem of Grafton becomes greater with the blankmess of market street. that will kill any hope of business on the west side of the block, and relegate it to be a big alleyway. that much nothing ness may kill all of downtown between argyle and brunswick, from duke to blowers.

pedestrians and cyclists do spend more then drivers - but they need a reason to go there, and blank blocks wont do it.

I generally like the approaches to argyle- Closing it at times, and stilling entertainment onto the street is a good thing. but if grafton is closed and so is argyle, then the downtown becomes too confusing to traverse, and people wont.

to save argyle, Grafton should be open to traffic. the plans make it an awkward public space - Fantastic for office and hotel (and Parking ) entrances, but not much else.

[Keith P.]

Important to keep in mind that those blocks of Grafton and Market have nothing at all in the way of businesses on them now, and have not for some time. Market has some rear entrances for apartments and class C office space, while Grafton only ever had the old Midtown, with the rest being parking lots. So it's not as if there was a vibrant set of streets there before. Saying something might kill parts of the downtown as a result of this development is a bit much. It seems to me it can only help.

[fenwick16]

Roger Taylor has another new rendering in the a story that he wrote today - http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1163061-taylor-no-benefit-in-rejecting-nova-centre

http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/u23/NOVACENTREPage_19.JPG


There are now floor plans for the Exhibition Hall and Ballroom levels on the halifax2016.ca website - http://www.halifax2016.ca/

http://www.halifax2016.ca/img/Level-1-Exhibition-Hall-2.jpg

http://www.halifax2016.ca/img/Level-2-Meeting-Rooms-2.jpg

http://www.halifax2016.ca/img/Level-3-Ballroom-2.jpg

[fenwick16]

It would be interesting to have more detailed technical information on the Exhibition Hall.

Some question I have regarding the exhibition hall are:
1) Is it possible to remove partitions in order to connect Exhibition Hall A and B?
2) What is the ceiling height of Exhibition Hall A (I think initially it was planned to be 30 feet?). Exhibition Hall B has a lower ceiling height since it has meeting rooms on a mezzanine above it, I wonder what its height will be?
3) I believe that the Metro Centre has the ability to exhibit large equipment and car shows since there are ground level off-loading areas. Will the Nova Centre Exhibit Hall be able to host similar events? It would be necessary to have vehicle ramps or very high capacity cargo elevators (from Market Street); also, the floor would have to have a high load bearing capacity (it would have to be well supported in the lower car levels).

[someone123]

Important to keep in mind that those blocks of Grafton and Market have nothing at all in the way of businesses on them now, and have not for some time. Market has some rear entrances for apartments and class C office space, while Grafton only ever had the old Midtown, with the rest being parking lots.

Here's an interview with Andy Fillmore where he talks mostly about the Nova Centre: http://www.news957.com/2013/10/25/friday-october-25-830am/

I like his take on the development. The only thing he flags at this point is the question of ownership and access to Grafton Street. If it's successful it be like a covered public street/space, which could be a great things since Halifax doesn't have any of those right now. Something like that would not be comparable to the Scotia Square type developments where one building footprint covers multiple blocks and former streets and where, most significantly, the design is meant to limit interaction with surrounding blocks and draw pedestrians into an interior mall-like environment.

It's important to try to do a good job of developing the Market Street side but the reality is that the loading bays have to go somewhere and Market Street is the logical spot.

[overboard]

Those are some sloppy-assed plans. It really doesn't support the "we know what we're doing" line when some of your rooms don't have doors.

[someone123]

Aerial view of the construction site:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXXEqnGIUAAzN3e.jpg
Source (https://twitter.com/gerhardtm/status/393436778964975616/photo/1)

[RyeJay]

An astounding picture.

[teddifax]

Aerial view of the construction site:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXXEqnGIUAAzN3e.jpg
Source (https://twitter.com/gerhardtm/status/393436778964975616/photo/1)

Wow!!! Take another shot when it is finished to compare. There should be a webcam from this angle!

[RyeJay]

There should be a webcam from this angle!

That would require an awful lot of helicopter fuel. :P

[teddifax]

That would require an awful lot of helicopter fuel. :P

I didn't realize it was a helicopter shot....

[Wishblade]

I didn't realize it was a helicopter shot....

How did you not realize that was a helicopter shot? last time I checked there weren't any buildings downtown anywhere near that height lol.

[fenwick16]

How did you not realize that was a helicopter shot? last time I checked there weren't any buildings downtown anywhere near that height lol.

Wouldn't it be great if there was a 500 - 600 foot tower in that area. It would give a terrific view of the city.


On another note, it appears as though the second level will be starting soon. I hope that Ziobrop won't mind me posting his image below.

( source: Ziobrop - http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/ )
http://24.media.tumblr.com/7ae146ee8eb2d972851bfb20f97b3cac/tumblr_mve8to7bPL1sjmgsso1_500.jpg

[Ziobrop]

I hope that Ziobrop won't mind me posting his image below.


Nope, no issues you gave Credit with Link, that's how i like it!


A High, Publicly available perch would be handy, the site might get boring once above ground level - though that said, it is called filling the hole, so i guess I have an out once the hole is filled..

[kph06]

Looks like concrete was poured in a hole that looks perfect for a crane base on the south end of the site by the access ramp.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Important to keep in mind that those blocks of Grafton and Market have nothing at all in the way of businesses on them now, and have not for some time. Market has some rear entrances for apartments and class C office space, while Grafton only ever had the old Midtown, with the rest being parking lots. So it's not as if there was a vibrant set of streets there before. Saying something might kill parts of the downtown as a result of this development is a bit much. It seems to me it can only help.

Pulling this forward because Keith is right. My entire life this area has been "dead" because of the herald building and the pit next to it.

Anything is better and obviously downtown won't die if that section has had nothing going on for so long, period.

[JET]

are there views of what the Market st side will look like?, everything seems to reflect the south end of it.

[RyeJay]

I believe there's another crane base on site, according to the cam.

[kph06]

New angle?

http://novacentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/NOVA-CENTRE-2013-10-argyle-prince.jpg
Source (http://novacentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/NOVA-CENTRE-2013-10-argyle-prince.jpg)

[RyeJay]

I'm in love!

[JET]

New angle?

http://novacentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/NOVA-CENTRE-2013-10-argyle-prince.jpg
Source (http://novacentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/NOVA-CENTRE-2013-10-argyle-prince.jpg)

what is that street corner?

[RyeJay]

what is that street corner?

Prince-Argyle.

[ns_kid]

are there views of what the Market st side will look like?, everything seems to reflect the south end of it.

Here is the architect's drawing of the Market Street side of the Nova Centre project, from the plans as submitted to HRM:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5484/10577261014_97899e557b_o.jpg
From: http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/18708SiteandBuildingPlansandImagesoftheProposal.pdf

[Drybrain]

Unfortunate, though the Harbour Ridge apartments already sets a back-alley precedent for that block.

[MonctonRad]

So they're turning Argyle in front of the Nova Centre into a pedestrian only street?

It's not a bad idea, I just wasn't aware this was part of the plan.......

[ns_kid]

My understanding is that Argyle Street might be closed periodically to vehicles, perhaps for special events, not permanently.

[Drybrain]

My understanding is that Argyle Street might be closed periodically to vehicles, perhaps for special events, not permanently.

I think it'd be a great idea permanently, though. With all the bars, restos, Neptune Theatre, etc, it's already basically the nightlife district. There are no business that depend on street parking, and it's not exactly a major auto thoroughfare. The Convention Centre will bring a lot of visitors to the area who will probably appreciate spilling out of the hotel/centre into an inviting, urban boulevard filled with shops and restaurants.

It's the most logical ped-and-bikes only street in town, and it would become a natural setting for small, informal events. Pedestrian malls rarely work when they're foisted on an area (see: Granville) but this seems like a natural extension of the street's existing strengths.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

I would agree with this analysis. Pedestrian only streets frequently don't work well in North America, but this particular location seems ideally suited to the concept.

It would suit the restaurants already in the area (especially in the summertime) and Neptune Theatre.

[beyeas]

Pedestrian malls rarely work when they're foisted on an area (see: Granville) but this seems like a natural extension of the street's existing strengths.

Certainly the major difference here is that Argyle is a street that people will be going down, and it connects some important areas of downtown, whereas unless you already know that there is a place near the north of Granville that you want to go to, there is absolutely no reason why you would walk down there.

I actually do think that it is a good idea for it to be only for pedestrians part time, but for me I think that is seasonal. During the summer when people are out, and sitting on patios, wandering in the evenings, make it pedestrian. The rest of the year I think you could open it to cars again with little impact. I often go to Ottawa for CIHR grant reviews, and during any period outside of the summer Sparkes is deader than a door nail. Been there many times in February and it is nothing but a windy cold street with no one on it. I think the same is likely here.

[Ziobrop]

Looks like concrete was poured in a hole that looks perfect for a crane base on the south end of the site by the access ramp.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/7f79515439d3eba2474b85f342db33e1/tumblr_mvhpxksLne1sjmgsso1_500.jpg The third Crane base is over by the the base of the ramp. They Stood it up this morning. (Sorry No Picture)
They are also pouring more floor, and work has begun on the rebar for the second level.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/4f27ce57983f94491d62144b06ba1719/tumblr_mvj821Q5951sjmgsso1_500.jpg

See more @ http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/

[RyeJay]

I think it'd be a great idea permanently, though. With all the bars, restos, Neptune Theatre, etc, it's already basically the nightlife district.

Yes, I agree with your idea. And I do see how this area is transforming into a kind of entertainment district, or something of that nature. I hope Neptune's popularity increases with this additional exposure.

As far as all the restaurants on this portion of Argyle are concerned, I wonder if they'll be allowed to expand their outdoor tables during the summer when the street is closed-off to vehicles?

$ $ $ !!

[Drybrain]

Certainly the major difference here is that Argyle is a street that people will be going down, and it connects some important areas of downtown, whereas unless you already know that there is a place near the north of Granville that you want to go to, there is absolutely no reason why you would walk down there.

Bingo. Even I only walk down it to gawk at the buildings--I rarely actually enter any of the businesses, and the vast nothingness to the north renders it useless as a thoroughfare.

[IanWatson]

Pulling this forward because Keith is right. My entire life this area has been "dead" because of the herald building and the pit next to it.

Anything is better and obviously downtown won't die if that section has had nothing going on for so long, period.

I agree, we can't do much worse than what was there. That being said, isn't it reasonable to advocate for something better? Presumably this building will still be there in a few decades, and by that time downtown could very well be full enough that we're clamoring for Market to be an active street.

Put another way, if we could go back in time, how many of you would go and smack the people who thought the Barrington St. side of Scotia Square wasn't worth questioning?

I honestly don't think most of the "opposition" that's occurring now is an attempt to stop the Nova Centre. Although there are exceptions, I think most people accept the fact that the Nova Centre is happening. The stuff going on at the DRC and in public meetings isn't a play at obstruction, it's (for the most part) an honest attempt to get the best for our city that we can out of this extremely significant development.

[Chadillaccc]

Any idea when this will be done? Unfortunately that info isn't in the database. Glad to see the excavation is done, that seemed tedious with all of the bedrock blasting!

[RyeJay]

Any idea when this will be done? Unfortunately that info isn't in the database. Glad to see the excavation is done, that seemed tedious with all of the bedrock blasting!

2016, I think? They already have conventions booked.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I agree, we can't do much worse than what was there. That being said, isn't it reasonable to advocate for something better? Presumably this building will still be there in a few decades, and by that time downtown could very well be full enough that we're clamoring for Market to be an active street.

Put another way, if we could go back in time, how many of you would go and smack the people who thought the Barrington St. side of Scotia Square wasn't worth questioning?

I honestly don't think most of the "opposition" that's occurring now is an attempt to stop the Nova Centre. Although there are exceptions, I think most people accept the fact that the Nova Centre is happening. The stuff going on at the DRC and in public meetings isn't a play at obstruction, it's (for the most part) an honest attempt to get the best for our city that we can out of this extremely significant development.

That's a great point, whatever is built there will be there for a long time, and therefore it's reasonable to keep an eye on what we would like it to be for the future, not just ok it because it's better than what has been there. The Barrington side of Scotia square is a prime example.

What will the planners of 30 years in the future be saying about this project?

[ILoveHalifax]

That's a great point, whatever is built there will be there for a long time, and therefore it's reasonable to keep an eye on what we would like it to be for the future, not just ok it because it's better than what has been there. The Barrington side of Scotia square is a prime example.

What will the planners of 30 years in the future be saying about this project?

There are a lot more problems in downtown Halifax than Scotia Square and the frontage along Barrington.
If it were still occupied with a thriving department store and grocery store as well as 75 other stores, we would not be quite so negative about it.
The lack of development in downtown Halifax over the last 30 years mainly caused by HT and other special interest groups has brought us to where we are.
Hopefully we have turned a page and city council is no longer swayed by the traditional naysayers.

[counterfactual]

I think it'd be a great idea permanently, though. With all the bars, restos, Neptune Theatre, etc, it's already basically the nightlife district. There are no business that depend on street parking, and it's not exactly a major auto thoroughfare. The Convention Centre will bring a lot of visitors to the area who will probably appreciate spilling out of the hotel/centre into an inviting, urban boulevard filled with shops and restaurants.

It's the most logical ped-and-bikes only street in town, and it would become a natural setting for small, informal events. Pedestrian malls rarely work when they're foisted on an area (see: Granville) but this seems like a natural extension of the street's existing strengths.

Strongly, strongly, agree with this!

All the talk about SGR being pedestrian would be a bad idea, and really disrupt things, but Argyle would be perfect. It's actually not a very good street to drive on anyways. So long as Nova Centre sets the right amount of set back and street front space for retail / cafes / restos / restaurants, etc, this could be huge.

[Keith P.]

Making Argyle ped-only, along with the changes proposed for Grafton, means that you are removing 2 N-S ways to connect D/T to Spring Garden. You are left with Brunswick, which has very little on it, and Barrington, which connects at SGR's dead end. There is a surprising amount of traffic on Argyle. I believe this is a bad idea.

[counterfactual]

Making Argyle ped-only, along with the changes proposed for Grafton, means that you are removing 2 N-S ways to connect D/T to Spring Garden. You are left with Brunswick, which has very little on it, and Barrington, which connects at SGR's dead end. There is a surprising amount of traffic on Argyle. I believe this is a bad idea.

Do you have data on that Argyle assumption? I think there is very little traffic on Argyle that "connects" with SGR. The only time there seems to be traffic on Argyle, is during a Mooseheads game when people are looking for a parking spot.

How about a compromise, then? Rather than total closure, we develop the street to emphasize pedestrian uses?

As proposed here: http://pdcentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Argyle_FinalDoc_DS_20Sep20122.pdf

One way to do that, is close the street to traffic at specific times.

So: how about closing Argyle to traffic on weekends?

[Drybrain]

Argyle doesn't directly connect with SGR at all though--Market Street is even slightly more direct, as a hook-up to lower Grafton or Brunswick, and someone can always dodge west on Sackville to Queen or Dresden Row.

But as counterfactual suggested, yes, the shared street concept, in which cars are paremitted but not privileged over other forms of transport, would be a good compromise. If people REALLY wanted to drive down Argyle they still could, but it'd be a lot slower and and the street would accommodate a lot less auto traffic--but still some.

From an urbanist's perspective, it's ridiculously logical to do this to Argyle. It's among the most pedestrian-trafficked streets downtown already, with one of the highest densities of pedestrian-oriented amenities, and the Nova Centre will really cap that off.

[Keith P.]

From an urbanist's perspective, it's ridiculously logical to do this to Argyle. It's among the most pedestrian-trafficked streets downtown already, with one of the highest densities of pedestrian-oriented amenities, and the Nova Centre will really cap that off.

That logic would apply if Grafton remained contiguous. But since it isn't, you are breaking 2 blocks worth of streets, just like Scotia Square and Metro Center did. And everyone loves to criticize that.

[Hali87]

That logic would apply if Grafton remained contiguous. But since it isn't, you are breaking 2 blocks worth of streets, just like Scotia Square and Metro Center did. And everyone loves to criticize that.

The streets would still be there, you just wouldn't be able to drive down them.
With Scotia Square, I don't think many people are complaining that the lost streets are now unavailable to drive on, it's that they were lost altogether.

[Nifta]

Yep. Argyle has a lot more pedestrian traffic than it does car traffic.

[Jonovision]

They were working will past sundown yesterday.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1459924_10100271275145179_1042524454_n.jpg

[RyeJay]

Is there a rush to get this thing built?

[Ziobrop]

Is there a rush to get this thing built?

I dont think so, But you cant pour Half a wall and come back and finish it tomorrow. Once you start pouring an element, you need to finish it otherwise concrete cures unevenly and creates a weak spot.

[CorbeauNoir]

The streets would still be there, you just wouldn't be able to drive down them.
With Scotia Square, I don't think many people are complaining that the lost streets are now unavailable to drive on, it's that they were lost altogether.

By pure coincidence I've just come back from watching an interesting documentary called The Human Scale, which dealt quite heavily with this issue of human space vs. vehicle space. One of the big case studies was in New York where they pedestrianized major intersections along Broadway in spite of significant initial resistance. Turns out that not only was making Times Square an actual square a huge hit but that traffic was negligibly affected despite widespread fears because despite having the vast majority of the physical area, vehicles were only a small fraction of the traffic actually using the space.

Point being, people are always going to bitch and moan about the prospect of change regardless of what it is (doesn't sound like Halifax at all!) and even when it's based around what is really a pretty obvious and banal observation about something like how a street is used. It's just a matter of putting that observation into physical practice to get people to realize that hey, sure enough the world hasn't caved in by accepting what a public site is already telling you.

[someone123]

Point being, people are always going to bitch and moan about the prospect of change regardless of what it is (doesn't sound like Halifax at all!)

One perverse manifestation of this attitude is the fact that people will accept expensive tunnels or elevated trains, but they will offhandedly discount the idea of taking two lanes along one of many streets and dedicating them to transit, even when the transit could obviously carry far more people than the mixed traffic lanes.

It's practically common knowledge in Halifax that there's "nowhere to put" LRT or streetcars, but this isn't true at all, even if you forget about the rail cut or other existing rail corridors.

[CorbeauNoir]

It's practically common knowledge in Halifax that there's "nowhere to put" LRT or streetcars, but this isn't true at all, even if you forget about the rail cut or other existing rail corridors.

Just try not to make our mistake. Supposedly there's a tunnel running under the length of 7th Ave that was intended for the downtown stretch of Calgary's LRT, yet was abandoned late in the project. The LRT has been proudly cocking up downtown's traffic flow ever since.

[ILoveHalifax]

One perverse manifestation of this attitude is the fact that people will accept expensive tunnels or elevated trains, but they will offhandedly discount the idea of taking two lanes along one of many streets and dedicating them to transit, even when the transit could obviously carry far more people than the mixed traffic lanes.

It's practically common knowledge in Halifax that there's "nowhere to put" LRT or streetcars, but this isn't true at all, even if you forget about the rail cut or other existing rail corridors.

I think some one way streets could accommodate street cars.

[fenwick16]

There is a great new batch of pictures from Ziobrop - http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/ . In the picture below the forms are being prepared to pour the Exhibition Hall level floor. This is the level where they will have to stop until the amendments go through (however there is still lots to do in the next few months). The Exhibition Hall ceiling will extend up above Argyle Street.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/8cbe06fd8f0d9c6fbf7b3fa86af4b74e/tumblr_mvwt25nA3e1sjmgsso1_1280.jpg

[Aya_Akai]

So.. Nova Centre was pretty big talk at Hal-Con over the weekend (Not sure if any of you here attended :haha: ) but I think it's safe to say that the convention scene is not 'dying' as many claim as the current venue could not handle the crowd demand this year, and the convention was nearly shut down due to the WTCC space being beyond capacity. This was all over the news and social media saturday afternoon and reports were filed on all major news outlets..


From CBC
A crowd of angry fans were forbidden from entering the largest sci-fi, fantasy and gaming convention in Eastern Canada because the venue was at capacity.

Many had bought tickets for Hal-Con ahead of time, but the fire marshal stepped in saying no one else could enter. Firefighters and police were called in.

The wait to get in on Saturday was approximately six hours.

The lineup stretched from the World Trade Convention Centre on Argyle Street down the steps of Grand Parade. People piled into the park to get refunds.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/hal-con-reaches-capacity-anger-erupts-1.2421164

I've worked large conventions in the US in several cities with proper, and up to todays' standard-sized convention spaces, and a situation like this is absolutely unacceptable (the halcon website was partially to blame for not capping sales on day passes to the convention) but having to turn away nearly 2000 people and issue refunds... I think this just furthers the point that we need to get Nova Centre finished ASAP, up and running so more events can be brought forward, and situations like this weekend don't happen again, as it gives the convention a bad rep, the convention space itself gets knocked pretty hard as well as the host city...

[counterfactual]

One perverse manifestation of this attitude is the fact that people will accept expensive tunnels or elevated trains, but they will offhandedly discount the idea of taking two lanes along one of many streets and dedicating them to transit, even when the transit could obviously carry far more people than the mixed traffic lanes.

It's practically common knowledge in Halifax that there's "nowhere to put" LRT or streetcars, but this isn't true at all, even if you forget about the rail cut or other existing rail corridors.

I think the "common knowledge" you're talking about is mainly "common knowledge" among HRM planning staff, which seem to be even more resistant to change than any member of the general public. All the ANS stories on the latest RP+5 are a great example of this-- the CDAC has basically revolted against the fact that staff don't seem to be taking public / community input seriously.

Anyways, I would LOVE some streetcars downtown.

I've always thought that a perfect place for a streetcar would run from the bottom of Duke (near the Ferry Terminal) all the way up to Brunswick street. It would be great to move people from the ferry further uptown to feed Barrington stops or bus stops (right now, you have to walk up from the ferry to make a common connection like the 1 SGR, which is stupid and discourages ferry use) or to bring people to City Hall, Metro Centre or Citadel Hill.

Tourists would also love it, because it would be an easy way up the hill, hitting popular destinations along the way.

I can't see how this would disrupt traffic very much at all. Very few cars run up Duke, even during rush hour. Create a streetcar lane down the middle.. And perhaps, if successful, it could one way run all the way up Rainnie to the Oval at the Commons...

Why are streetcars never debated or pitched at Council?

[counterfactual]

So.. Nova Centre was pretty big talk at Hal-Con over the weekend (Not sure if any of you here attended :haha: ) but I think it's safe to say that the convention scene is not 'dying' as many claim as the current venue could not handle the crowd demand this year, and the convention was nearly shut down due to the WTCC space being beyond capacity. This was all over the news and social media saturday afternoon and reports were filed on all major news outlets..


From CBC


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/hal-con-reaches-capacity-anger-erupts-1.2421164

I've worked large conventions in the US in several cities with proper, and up to todays' standard-sized convention spaces, and a situation like this is absolutely unacceptable (the halcon website was partially to blame for not capping sales on day passes to the convention) but having to turn away nearly 2000 people and issue refunds... I think this just furthers the point that we need to get Nova Centre finished ASAP, up and running so more events can be brought forward, and situations like this weekend don't happen again, as it gives the convention a bad rep, the convention space itself gets knocked pretty hard as well as the host city...

Be careful, or that eternal Nova Centre boosterism deflater Tim Bousquet will appear on here to shout you down. :D

[someone123]

The arguments against conventions in Halifax were never very convincing. It felt like STV et al. simply decided to switch gears once they saw the NIMBY angle wasn't enough on its own, even though that was their real reason for being against the convention centre.

They did bring that anti-convention guy to town but his presentation seemed very generic and US-focused. Hal-Con is the perfect example of why that line of reasoning is flawed; there is nowhere else people in Atlantic Canada can easily go for a large event like that. The situation is quite different from the US where there might be multiple large venues within driving distance and where air travel is a fraction of the cost.