Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments [Archive] - Page 2

plinko

Feb 21, 2007, 6:57 AM

I think it might depend on where you live in the Valley...and how long you've been around (since they started building all the freeways).

For me it was always:
I-17
I-10
The Superstition (remember when it used to have grass embankments and stop at McClintock?)
Squaw Peak
Red Mountain
143
The 101
The Santan

I know that 10 and 17 have names, but rarely have heard them used (although I will say I've heard the Black Canyon Freeway moniker used occasionally). Still, nobody in Tempe calls I-10 the 'Maricopa Freeway'.

The 101 for me always referred to the entire loop. I've seen 'Aqua Fria Freeway' on a map, but never heard it uttered. Then again, I didn't live in the West Valley.

Never really used '202', but always have referred to it by name. Why? Who knows?

I think the use of the numbers is becoming more and more common over the years. Most people weren't in Phoenix when they were built originally and don't get where the names come from anyway. I've also noticed that people are started to pick up the SoCal thing of placing 'the' in front of the number. Funny.

Squaw Peak will always be Squaw Peak, screw the politicians. Probably better known as 'the 51' now because Piestewa is too damn irritating to say.

BTW, does ANYBODY know what number the ill-conceived Paradise Parkway would have been? Just curious...

loftlovr

Feb 21, 2007, 7:47 AM

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0220skyharbor-ON.html

Phoenix council authorizes $2.9 billion airport expansion
Ginger D. Richardson
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 20, 2007 05:34 PM

Phoenix City Council members authorized a $2.9 billion expansion of Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport Tuesday afternoon, despite strong objections from its two hub carriers, US Airways and Southwest Airlines.

Both airlines would help foot the construction bill by paying millions more in rent and landing fees in the coming years.

The city calls the rate hikes "modest," but the carriers say it would more than double their cost of doing business in Phoenix.

That, they say, could affect their ability to grow, or even maintain, their existing flight schedule.

"We are concerned that these cost increases would turn a modestly profitable hub into a money losing hub which would jeopardize our ability to grow or sustain our current level of operations," C.A. Howlett, US Airways senior vice president of public affairs said in a letter that was delivered to council members Monday. The airline has budgeted about $40 million for Sky Harbor rents and landing fees this year, he said.

Council members say they understand the carriers' concerns, but said that the expansion program - which includes the construction of a $1.1 billion automated train system, and a 33-gate terminal to replace aging Terminal 2 - is critical to ensuring that Sky Harbor can accommodate future passenger growth.

"This is an exciting opportunity to help this state and community move forward," Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon said shortly before the council's vote.

He and other council members encouraged the airport to continue discussions with the airlines and to try to minimize the impact on them in the coming years.

The carriers say they are disturbed by Phoenix's plan in part because they don't believe that some of the projects, most notably the driverless train system, are necessary.

Bob Montgomery, Southwest's vice president of properties, called it an "extraordinarily and prohibitively expensive" project that is designed to merely replace the airport's existing bus system. In a sharply worded letter to the city, he detailed the carrier's long history of cooperation with the city, but said that Tuesday's decision marks a sharp departure from that positive relationship.

He made similar remarks to the Republic over the weekend.

"It is self evident, given the short timeframe, the foregone conclusion, and the questionable benefit of the (train) project, that the polar opposite of our previous partnership is beginning to take hold in Phoenix," Montgomery said.

The two carriers were notified only late last week that the airport intended to seek the council's approval of the expansion plan on Tuesday. However, Sky Harbor executives said they had been talking with the carriers about the airport's needs for years.

Assistant Aviation Director Paul Blue also said that the airport would continue to work with its airlines to address their concerns and minimize their costs. The current proposal calls for raising the airline's cost per enplaned passenger from $4.65 to $7 or $8 by 2016 - an increase of about five percent a year over the next 10 years.

"We can't implement $2.9 billion of work without close collaboration with our airline partners," Blue said. "We have a long road ahead of us. We'll work with them and do this in the most cost-effective way we can."

Passengers could feel the effects of the construction in their pocketbooks too.

Sky Harbor also hopes to take in extra cash via the passenger facility charge, a $4.50 fee tacked on to every ticket originating at the airport. The Federal Aviation Administration has submitted legislation to Congress that would, among other things, increase that fee to $6.

In addition, the airport will consider increases in rental car taxes, parking fees, and concessions to help pay for the work.

Tuesday's council decision means that planning and design to on the new train system and terminal can begin almost immediately. In addition, the airport intends to build out a final, eight-gate concourse in Terminal 4 and give other passenger areas, like baggage claim and ticketing, a major facelift.

The new round of construction follows other major improvement work at the airport, including the construction of an $89 million air traffic control tower and a $285 million rental car center.

DevdogAZ

Feb 21, 2007, 3:51 PM

The only freeway name I've heard used regularly (by people other than traffic reporters) is the Superstition.

Sure, I know that the north segment of the 202 is the Red Mountain, but until the last couple of years there was only one segment of the 202 so there was no reason to use that name.

I never hear anyone use the names of the 101, especially since it changes several times. In Chandler it's the Price Freeway, in Scottsdale it's the Pima Freeway, on the west side it's the Agua Fria Freeway, and as long as they have so many different names, they should make a different one for the north section that runs E/W so as not to confuse those people who are not driving along Pima Road or along the Agua Fria River.

I've occasionally heard the names of Black Canyon and Maricopa on traffic reports, but had no idea which segments those referred to.

I used to hear people use Squaw Peak, but rarely hear anyone use Piestewa. It's just the 51 as far as I'm concerned.

Sekkle

Feb 21, 2007, 9:31 PM

From azcentral.com...
State money sought to speed up light rail
Sean Holstege
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 21, 2007 02:17 PM
Metro has asked Gov. Janet Napolitano to find $1.7 billion in state money to speed up light rail plans and add more extensions.

Metro Executive Director Rick Simonetta outlined the request at the agency's meeting Wednesday. He wants to finish the voter-approved 57-mile system in 2020 rather than 2025 and add 37 miles of track not included in current plans.

That, along with a handful of bridges, would cost $2.3 billion, he reported. Currently, Maricopa County's regional transportation plan could contribute $670 million so Metro is wanting the state to pick up the difference.

Simonetta did not reveal where the 37 miles of new track might go, but his announcement comes one day after Chandler Mayor Boyd Dunn confirmed that his city wants to join the four-city Metro organization this year.

The Metro board accepted Simonetta's plan without comment on a day it unanimously approved a $2.3 million contract to begin planning light rail extensions west along Interstate 10 and elsewhere into Glendale.

Metro's request for state money is a response to Napolitano's order last month to come up with a state rail plan before summer.

Currently, Metro has built just over half of its 20-mile, $1.4 billion starter line in Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa.

Planned extensions include west along I-10, west into Glendale, north to MetroCenter Mall, east to downtown Mesa, northeast to Paradise Valley Mall and a southern spur in Tempe.

combusean

Feb 21, 2007, 10:02 PM

The state's not the only one putting up the difference--there can be lots of federal help this pot too. The starter line was built with $600 million in federal money. The state's outlay could be closer to $500 milion if the same formulas can apply.

Either way this is good stuff all around--a line down Rural Rd and Chandler Boulevard could connect Chandler Fashion Center with downtown. Congrats to Boyd Dunn for pushing this in a traditionally right wing-leaning city.

Azndragon837

Feb 21, 2007, 11:12 PM

^ I agree, I hope the state and the federal government helps out Metro. An earlier opening day (in 2020) is better than 2025 (crap, I'll be 42 in 2025 and 37 in 2020, ahhhhhh!).

-Andrew

combusean

Feb 21, 2007, 11:38 PM

BTW, does ANYBODY know what number the ill-conceived Paradise Parkway would have been? Just curious...

50.

combusean

Feb 22, 2007, 3:57 AM

Work begins on Metro train (http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/0222tr-lightrail0222Z10.html)

Sean Holstege and Katie Nelson
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 22, 2007 12:00 AM

With the sound of an industrial buzzer and Aerosmith's Walk This Way, the door raised, the ribbon was cut and Metro's $64 million maintenance center officially opened Wednesday in Phoenix.

Within hours of the dignitaries leaving, work began to fully assemble the first built-from-scratch train. Train cars in silver tarpaulins and green netting sat outside the facility next to crates of plastic-wrapped wheel trucks. All were awaiting assembly inside. Within weeks, the public will see the real McCoy running in test tracks on Washington Street.

Discussions about the location of future extensions have begun in Tempe, Chandler, Mesa and Glendale. But Wednesday was a day for light-rail fans to gawk at a new train, whose cars were preassembled in Japan. They checked out its maintenance center. And politicians crowed about what Metro Executive Director Rick Simonetta called the heart of the 20-mile system. They spoke as if the full system was ready to open, something not due until December 2008.

"This is the future. We get to have a glimpse at that future when we look at these cars," Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon said, touting 2,000 jobs that light rail is expected to bring.

About 250 employees will work in the Operations and Maintenance Center just east of Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

His Tempe counterpart, Mayor Hugh Hallman credited forward thinking transportation planners in his city and generous voters.

"The progressive voters of our region have paid to try this on for size, and they will not be disappointed," Hallman said.

U.S. Rep. Harry Mitchell, who also sits on key congressional transportation committees and was an early campaigner for rail transit in the Valley, addressed the worries of light-rail critics in an interview after the ceremony.

"People who base the success of this on the day it opens miss the point. It will change people's shopping habits, living habits," Mitchell said. "We're not going to see all of a sudden emptying the streets of cars or cleaning up the air. It's about the future."

Mesa Mayor Keno Hawker also talked about the future.

"We will someday extend a rail to downtown Mesa," said Hawker, whose city now has one mile of track. "I want to point out that the line will start in Mesa, progress through Tempe and end in Phoenix."

An hour later, Metro's governing board approved a $2.3 million contract to begin planning an extension into Glendale.

In Tempe, speculation is frequent about how Proposition 400 money would be used for light rail extensions.

Current tentative plans include a 2-mile leg that goes to Southern Avenue and Rural Road. Other options on the table include using Mill Avenue, Rural Road, McClintock Drive or the Loop 101 as corridors going to Scottsdale or to Chandler.

Tempe's City Council won't make a decision on where additional routes could go for at least 18 months, according to Councilwoman Shana Ellis, chair of the council's transportation committee.

Ellis, who also attended the ribbon cutting, said she wants to wait until studies are done about projected ridership and costs for the different routes. She also wants to hold public forums and get input.

"Right now with all the construction being very fresh in people's minds, there is some resistance to the idea of even more of it," Ellis said. "But I believe once light rail is up and operating, there will be interest Valley-wide in getting spurs and seeing those rail cars in more parts of our community in order to get our money's worth."

In Chandler, there is hope that Tempe's light rail line could serve as a conduit to go south and serve other Southeast Valley municipalities.

Chandler is making plans to join Tempe, Mesa, Phoenix and Glendale on the Valley Metro Rail Board this year, Mayor Boyd Dunn announced Tuesday, during his annual State of the City address. Membership will cost $50,000 a year.

Hallman said, Rail through Chandler "is probably 20 years away, but we anticipate the system will eventually be extended down here," said Mike Normand, Chandler's acting assistant public works director.

The city has identified Rural Road, Arizona Avenue and Chandler Boulevard as possible corridors.

Reporter Edythe Jensen contributed to this article.

NorthScottsdale

Feb 22, 2007, 5:42 AM

Am I the only one here who uses the names?

What if I directed you to the 101 and Bell road?

there actually is only one "101 and bell" roads. on the east side. bell road turns into frank lloyd wright at scottsdale road, and thats what hits the 101. there is a bell road that starts about a half mile north of that, but there isnt an exit for bell.

JI5

Feb 22, 2007, 6:14 AM

^ I agree, I hope the state and the federal government helps out Metro. An earlier opening day (in 2020) is better than 2025 (crap, I'll be 42 in 2025 and 37 in 2020, ahhhhhh!).

-Andrew

Oh well folks, at least our kids will have good mass transit. Sucks to be born in the 20th century, i guess.

Sekkle

Feb 22, 2007, 1:06 PM

Similar article to the one Combusean posted ^^^. This one's from the Tribune and a little shorter.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/images/photos/81x0rki3.jpg
METRO light rail unveils first assembled vehicle
J. Craig Anderson, Tribune
METRO light rail unveiled its first assembled vehicle Wednesday inside the agency’s new Operations and Maintenance Center, 605 S. 48th St., in Phoenix. The agency is purchasing a total of 50 such vehicles.

Twelve are in pieces awaiting assembly, and the rest will be delivered periodically throughout the year. Each will take about three weeks to assemble, with the bulk of the work beginning this summer.

In April, METRO will begin testing vehicles on a one-mile section of track on Washington Street near the Phoenix/Tempe border, between 48th and 56th streets. The 20-mile METRO light rail starter line will open for passenger service in December 2008
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/images/photos/gfjvi55k.jpg

There's a slideshow with some not-too-interesting pictures. I posted two of them above. Here's the link to the article. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/84533
Click "view slideshow" on that page if you want to see the rest.

sundevilgrad

Feb 22, 2007, 1:54 PM

I love the idea of running a line down Rural or McClintock. Mill would be very difficult and short since it pretty much dead-ends at Baseline.

vertex

Feb 22, 2007, 6:04 PM

Why the heck isn't anybody talking about putting a spur into Ahwatukee? They could probably use it more than any other area in the valley right now.

sundevilgrad

Feb 22, 2007, 9:58 PM

Why the heck isn't anybody talking about putting a spur into Ahwatukee? They could probably use it more than any other area in the valley right now.

Probably because nobody wants to deal with all the NIMBY's that call that area home. I can just imagine the uproar when a neighborhood finds out that the light rail is proposed to go "their" street.

vertex

Feb 22, 2007, 10:38 PM

I know plenty of people who would welcome the LRT, and are fed up with the commuting on the 10, 48th st. and Baseline. The Rapid Route from Pecos Rd. to downtown is probably the most successful bus route in the valley right now.

DevdogAZ

Feb 22, 2007, 10:49 PM

I think any decisions on the future of Metro will have to wait for a few years until we see how successful the initial stretch is. There are a lot of people who think it will be very successful, but I would say that there are a LOT more who think it will flop. I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm glad we're finally getting some reliable mass transit, but I shudder to think of how long it will take to get anywhere, and since the Valley's employment centers are very decentralized, this initial line will only be viable for a very small percentage of the population.

I hope it's successful and that once people see how well it's doing, they'll be more supportive of future spurs. But until the current tracks are proven, I think there will be a lot of opposition to additional spurs.

(Yes, I know Prop. 400 funded quite a bit of additional track, but I'm thinking that until people see that it's successful, they'll be fighting about where the lines should go.)

JCarp

Feb 23, 2007, 1:33 AM

Why the heck isn't anybody talking about putting a spur into Ahwatukee? They could probably use it more than any other area in the valley right now.

How I wish that they will put a spur strait down Rural Rd to Chandler Blvd, now that Chandler is in with Light Rail. This I believe would be one of the most used lines in the whole system from all of us who have to commute north on the 10 (or should I say Maricopa Fwy) each day. Also from there, it wouldn’t be to hard to build another spur west on Chandler Blvd straight into Ahwatukee.

I know I would use this route. Sadly, the current route will not be of any use to me in its current configuration, even though my company is moving to Hayden Ferry at the end of this year. By the time I will get to the closest station, I will be just a block from my destination. IMO, Metro will be great, but not effective until they expand the current layout to accommodate more areas of the valley.

DevdogAZ

Feb 23, 2007, 1:39 AM

How I wish that they will put a spur strait down Rural Rd to Chandler Blvd, now that Chandler is in with Light Rail. This I believe would be one of the most used lines in the whole system from all of us who have to commute north on the 10 (or should I say Maricopa Fwy) each day. Also from there, it wouldn’t be to hard to build another spur west on Chandler Blvd straight into Ahwatukee.

I know I would use this route. Sadly, the current route will not be of any use to me in its current configuration, even though my company is moving to Hayden Ferry at the end of this year. By the time I will get to the closest station, I will be just a block from my destination. IMO, Metro will be great, but not effective until they expand the current layout to accommodate more areas of the valley.

With as slow as Metro is going to be (less than 20 MPH overall), would anyone in Ahwatukee actually ride it if it they had to go all the way east into Chandler, then North into Tempe and then back west to DT? Seems like that route would take 60-90 minutes to go less than 20 miles from Ahwatukee to DT.

JCarp

Feb 23, 2007, 1:47 AM

With as slow as Metro is going to be (less than 20 MPH overall), would anyone in Ahwatukee actually ride it if it they had to go all the way east into Chandler, then North into Tempe and then back west to DT? Seems like that route would take 60-90 minutes to go less than 20 miles from Ahwatukee to DT.

In my personal experience, light rail (that is TRAX in SLC) goes the same speed as traffic does on surface streets). With the larger blocks and further spaced traffic lights (at least in that part of town), I bet METRO will be quicker then 20 mph. Regaurdless, since i go about 20 mph on the 10, it will be a wash.

DevdogAZ

Feb 23, 2007, 4:36 AM

In my personal experience, light rail (that is TRAX in SLC) goes the same speed as traffic does on surface streets). With the larger blocks and further spaced traffic lights (at least in that part of town), I bet METRO will be quicker then 20 mph. Regaurdless, since i go about 20 mph on the 10, it will be a wash.

Two points:

1. For much of the length of the TRAX route (south of downtown), they use old railroad right of way, which means there's no traffic to deal with and the trains can get up to speed (50 mph+) between stops.

2. While Metro trains will definitely go faster than 20 mph between stops, when you factor in the fact that they'll be on surface streets with other traffic and lights and the stops that have to be made, the average overall speed will be less than 20 mph.

That's why I'm saying that a spur from Ahwatukee that goes all the way east into Chandler before heading north into Tempe and then back west to downtown will simply be too long. I think in order for it to be attractive to Ahwatukee commuters, it would have to go as close to I-10 and South Mountain as possible and then perhaps up 48th Street and connect with the main line at Washington.

SethAZ

Feb 23, 2007, 4:49 AM

One of my friends works for the City of Tempe and has been working on the light rail for about 10 years now. I asked him last friday why (or if) it was really going to go so slow. He said people get hung up on the "20 mph" but that is just the average. He brought to my attention too, that when you are in traffic or at a red light, your car speed is 0 and when taken as an overall average, your car really isn't going much faster. He also said that the light rail will go 50 mph between some stops.

combusean

Mar 2, 2007, 3:20 PM

Mary Manross's State of the City address in which she addresses light rail... let's try to keep the transit-related posts in here.

She's against light rail on Scottsdale Rd through downtown ... but what about tracks on the Goldwater/Drinkwater "couplet"?

Our number one issue, without question, is addressing transportation in this city, recognizing that we are part of a regional system. Transportation needs demand action on local, regional and state levels. There is no easy fix to these challenges which are in part a result of Arizona being the fastest growing State in the nation, and our next door neighbor Phoenix being the fifth largest city in the country. What happens regionally impacts our city!

As Vice Chairman of MAG, I was successful in accelerating the construction schedule of the Loop 101 HOV lane between Tatum and Princess. As a result, construction is now set to begin this summer. This lane will not only encourage ride sharing, it will also provide a dedicated corridor for Bus Rapid Transit, or BRT. Currently, there is BRT in the Valley, but not nearly extensive enough to adequately serve the needs of the public. Coupled with park and ride lots and other local transit connectors, BRT can fill an important transportation gap for our work force commuting to and from Scottsdale – and help us reduce the number of cars on our local streets! As a matter of fact, today, a majority of our workforce travels to Scottsdale for employment. As your Mayor I will continue to look for opportunities, like this, to expedite local and regional projects which benefit Scottsdale and the regional system.

Hopefully, you are all aware that an intensive, citizen-driven effort is currently under way to draft a Transportation Master Plan for Scottsdale. We expect it to be completed in the fall of 2007. There will be many more opportunities for citizen input between now and then. This planning process is comprehensive and deals with transportation issues throughout the city including roadway widening, new trolley routes, bus route expansion, trails and bike paths, all aspects of transportation. It also will make recommendations on possible transit and workforce travel options on Scottsdale Road.

Make no mistake about it… this is a “watershed moment” for the future of our City. Like everyone else, I am eager to reach the decision making point. But it takes time to complete a fair and open public process. Many options for roadway and transit improvements are being analyzed and considered. With public input, and in depth research, we will be prepared to move forward with an effective transportation plan.

However, as your Mayor, I feel compelled to speak out on one issue that has created some controversy within our community. We have yet to see the results of Light Rail in Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa. It may prove to be effective in some of those communities, it may not.

However, I strongly believe that Scottsdale’s downtown, with four distinct districts including Old Town, is very unique, and it needs to be protected! Let there be no question about it, that while I support improved transit opportunities on our signature road, I do not support light rail on Scottsdale Road going through the heart of our Downtown!

Due to the potential costs and impacts associated with rail, the Council has assured the public that any potential rail proposal would be placed on the ballot for all of us to consider.

As we address our transportation needs, we are not just talking about roadways and public transit, either. We haven’t forgotten our non-motorized travelers in Scottsdale, and there is more every year. Energy saving and environmentally friendly means of getting around need to be highlighted and encouraged. We are expanding our extensive network of more than 95 miles of bike lanes and 65 miles of paved pathways. New bicycle, pedestrian and equestrian path improvements are under way, with more on the drawing board.

Our commitment to creating healthy and environmentally responsible options for transportation is just one way we demonstrate our awareness of the importance of protecting our land, water and air.

PHX31

Mar 2, 2007, 4:06 PM

Two points:

1. For much of the length of the TRAX route (south of downtown), they use old railroad right of way, which means there's no traffic to deal with and the trains can get up to speed (50 mph+) between stops.

2. While Metro trains will definitely go faster than 20 mph between stops, when you factor in the fact that they'll be on surface streets with other traffic and lights and the stops that have to be made, the average overall speed will be less than 20 mph.

That's why I'm saying that a spur from Ahwatukee that goes all the way east into Chandler before heading north into Tempe and then back west to downtown will simply be too long. I think in order for it to be attractive to Ahwatukee commuters, it would have to go as close to I-10 and South Mountain as possible and then perhaps up 48th Street and connect with the main line at Washington.

It isn't like the trains are blindly travelling along the surface streets with traffic making it a crap shoot if they actually hit a green light or have to make a stop. There is a much more comprehensive signal timing plan for the trains, giving them green light precedence and smooth sailing more often than a regular vehicle would have right now.

Sekkle

Mar 2, 2007, 4:58 PM

DevdogAZ

Mar 2, 2007, 5:07 PM

It isn't like the trains are blindly travelling along the surface streets with traffic making it a crap shoot if they actually hit a green light or have to make a stop. There is a much more comprehensive signal timing plan for the trains, giving them green light precedence and smooth sailing more often than a regular vehicle would have right now.

I realize that, but even the people promoting Metro are saying the average speed is under 20 mph.

PHX_PD

Mar 2, 2007, 11:13 PM

Someone who drives home during rush hour should figure out their average speed for comparison. With all the time you spend stopped, I wouldn't be surprised if the avg was well under 20 mph.

combusean

Mar 3, 2007, 2:16 AM

I realize that, but even the people promoting Metro are saying the average speed is under 20 mph.

I wonder how much salt ther is to this ... Stops take time, sure, but at < 20 MPH it's probably a worst-case. The light rail vehicles are traveling at posted speed limits in no traffic. I wonder if the LRV's could be rigged with a trigger device like the strobes in emergency vehicles.

If you go to az511's site, they have the average speed of the current conditions on the freeway. Freeways here are so hit or miss--maybe the east side of the 101 is the exception (traffic at 2:00? huh?)--you're either flying or you're stopped, with the problem starting in all the usual places--on the 10 east right as it curves, on the 202/10 east right before 7th st, etc.

JI5

Mar 3, 2007, 8:30 AM

Someone who drives home during rush hour should figure out their average speed for comparison. With all the time you spend stopped, I wouldn't be surprised if the avg was well under 20 mph.

My car calculates it.... Its on the dashboard. I usually average about 25 MPH city driving at night, and 12-15 during rush hour.

sundevilgrad

Mar 7, 2007, 2:22 PM

Another hack job...

http://www.azcentral.com/blogs/index.php?blog=303&title=are_the_lights_any_brighter_here_just_im&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1&blogtype=PhxPluggedin

How about doing some research on light rail before posting negative opinions? Go ask Dallas, Minneapolis, Salt Lake or Portland their opinions of the light rail!

Vicelord John

Mar 7, 2007, 6:48 PM

there actually is only one "101 and bell" roads. on the east side. bell road turns into frank lloyd wright at scottsdale road, and thats what hits the 101. there is a bell road that starts about a half mile north of that, but there isnt an exit for bell.
absolutely dead wrong. You can infact exit bell road either in glendale, or in scottsdale.

JCarp

Mar 7, 2007, 7:23 PM

absolutely dead wrong. You can infact exit bell road either in glendale, or in scottsdale.

Not quite... While the 101 does cross Bell in Scottsdale too, there is not an exit off of the 101 for Bell, only the streets before and after it (Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd and Princess Dr respectfully). So in a way, you're both right? :shrug:

Vicelord John

Mar 7, 2007, 7:27 PM

Not quite... While the 101 does cross Bell in Scottsdale too, there is not an exit off of the 101 for Bell, only the streets before and after it (Frank Lloyd Wright Blvd and Princess Dr respectfully). So in a way, you're both right? :shrug:
NO NO NO...

I've driven out there to the Ice Den and McDowell Mountain Ranch plenty of times to know that there is infact a Bell road exit. The sign says Bell/Frank Lloyd Wright heading southbound on the 101.

click this link and look at the aerial view. Looks like an onramp to meeee....

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=7800+e+bell+scottsdale,+az&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=68.054114,95.976563&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=33.640348,-111.890087&spn=0.004475,0.009377&t=k&om=1

PHX31

Mar 7, 2007, 7:50 PM

No JCarp is right, you don't actually get on or off the freeway from Bell Rd. The on and off ramps are either directly from FLW or Princess, with connections to Bell Road. It doesn't matter if there is a Bell Road directional on the guide sign. That's there to tell the driver that if they want Bell Road they have to get off on Frank Lloyd Wright because there isn't a direct ramp at Bell.

JCarp

Mar 7, 2007, 7:55 PM

NO NO NO...

I've driven out there to the Ice Den and McDowell Mountain Ranch plenty of times to know that there is infact a Bell road exit. The sign says Bell/Frank Lloyd Wright heading southbound on the 101.

click this link and look at the aerial view. Looks like an onramp to meeee....

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=7800+e+bell+scottsdale,+az&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=68.054114,95.976563&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=33.640348,-111.890087&spn=0.004475,0.009377&t=k&om=1

I used to live on FLW, and I'm pretty sure that the off ramps are for Princess and FLWB. I do concur that the southbound Princess off ramp might include Bell on the signage, but I know for a fact (look closely at the above link) that there is no off ramp directly to Bell Road from the 101.

JCarp

Mar 7, 2007, 7:58 PM

Well this has been beaten to death long enough.... I think you all would agree that it's time to move on...:yes: :runaway:

Vicelord John

Mar 7, 2007, 9:51 PM

so you guys are really technical. The signs say Bell road, and you can get on or off the freeway at bell road. sheesh

sundevilgrad

Mar 8, 2007, 2:12 PM

Who f-ing cares? Really. It's not that confusing. Driving in New York/New Jersey, now that's confusing!

nbrindley

Mar 9, 2007, 4:02 AM

Try Pittsburgh at night and in the rain. bleh.

combusean

Mar 15, 2007, 4:56 AM

West Valley light rail route revised (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0314metro-northline-ON.html)

Sean Holstege
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 14, 2007 08:14 PM

Phoenix city leaders have decided to build an initial three miles, not the full 4.6 miles of the first light-rail extension.

It's the second time in as many years that plans for the northwest line have shifted. Two years ago, the Phoenix City Council opted against sending tracks across Interstate 17 into MetroCenter Mall. Instead, the line was to end at a business park on the east side of the freeway.

The latest plan, ratified recently, would build the northwest extension in two phases. The first phase, a 3.2-mile line, would open on time in 2012 using $273million in local funds, adjusted for inflation. Completing the extension would have to wait until after 2014, when federal money could be secured, and those plans could be altered.

"We are trying to get as far as we can by 2012," said Wulf Grote, Metro's director of project development.

The new plan stops tracks at 19th and Dunlap avenues, rather than 25th Avenue and Mountain View Road. It would eliminate two planned stations west and north of the 19th and Dunlap.

City and Metro officials said they faced the choice of building all of the line late or using money exclusively from a 2000 local sales tax to finish as much of it on schedule as possible. They said the 2012 date was no longer realistic because federal requirements had grown too onerous and time-consuming.

Also, the city wanted to contract the work using a method that's preferred locally because it can be more cost-effective and quicker. That method, used to build Sky Harbor International Airport's Terminal 4, is prohibited by the Federal Transit Administration, which doles federal money to new rail projects it deems worthy.

Phoenix and Metro officials hope the FTA will agree to do in Phoenix to what it did in Salt Lake City and Denver. There, locals paid for early rail expansions in their entirety on the promise that the FTA would pony up 80percent of the money on later phases. Typically, the federal government expects locals to contribute half of the money for new rail projects, a policy that benefited Arizona when it successfully sought FTA money for the 20-mile starter track, which is now half-built.

But it's a gamble that the FTA will agree to the 80-20 offer, and early numbers show the planned northwest extension won't meet federal ridership standards. Current estimates show 6,000 to 7,000 people will board the 3.2-mile extension on a one-way trip by 2030. The extra 1.4 mile doesn't add enough projected ridership, according to federal models, although transit agencies question assumptions in those models.

It's unclear if the northwest extension will ever go to MetroCenter Mall or the business park east of I-17, Grote said.

The Arizona Department of Transportation has told Metro not to plan any crossing until the state decides how to increase capacity on I-17.

At Glendale's insistence, Metro is studying three ways to bring rail into the city: along Interstate 10 and north to University of Phoenix Stadium; west into downtown as planned, or along a new unknown route to Arizona State University West. For the first time, Metro planning maps show a dotted line to ASU West.

Ed Zuercher, deputy chief of staff to Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon, said the action does not break faith with voters, who were promised a MetroCenter line by 2012.

"We wanted to push light rail to the boundaries of our knowledge, and that's 19th and Dunlap, " Zuercher said, adding Gordon is still committed to sending trains to the MetroCenter area.

"We're ready and willing to go that last mile, when we know where it should be," Zuercher said.

Phoenix resident Bob McKnight, who has pored over Metro technical reports, has been a critic of light-rail planning from the beginning but applauded the news.

"There's a big difference between this pie-in-the-sky project that was sold to us and what actually works," he said. "The City Council is doing the right thing. I don't think haste is a virtue."

Contact the reporter at (602) 444-8334 or sean.holstege@arizonarepublic.com

PHX31

Mar 15, 2007, 5:33 AM

It seems like this extension line was ill-conceived to be the first extension. 19th & Dunlap? Seemingly a waste to me to be the first extension. How about begin the I-10 extension by taking the line out to the capitol first? I just wonder how this was planned.

HooverDam

Mar 15, 2007, 1:03 PM

^Agreed, I don't get it either. I think a line over to the Capital would be a easy first extension, since its a fairly small leg.

Also, it seems to me like it would make more since to have the light rail run west on Camelback, with stops at places like GCU. Then have it turn onto Grand heading NW into downtown Glendale. Then west on Glendale out to Westgate/UofP stadium. With a northern leg that splits off at the Grand/Gledndale/59th intersection that has a stop at GCC, and could perhaps terminate at Thunderbird and 59th- which is near the Banner T-Bird medical center, and close to both Thunderbird Business School and ASU west. Or if it wasn't too much more, just have it keep running north on 59th to Tbird, and have a small leg running down Thunderbird road to ASU west.

I don't understand the need to connect to the Metro Center area though. Is that area really a big employment hub? Do people really need to board light rail in Tempe so they can get to Castles-N-Coasters?

If the choice is between connecting GCU, downtown Glendale and Westgate or Metrocenter, I think the choice is obvious (though thats probably not a choice, as my plan is obviously much larger and more expensive).

combusean

Mar 15, 2007, 2:22 PM

It doesn't appear that connecting downtown Glendale is a preferred route for light rail. I heard Northern thrown out instead, a mile to the north.

I think if this is going to work, it should dogleg from Metrocenter to ASU West on 43rd and Thunderbird, then up Thunderbird/Bell to Peoria/Arrowhead at 83rd/91st Ave, then down south perhaps along the western leg of the 101, down Westgate to 79th Ave, on the 10 to 17th ave, and then on Washington St to connect back to the mainline.

I agree that a line on Washington St to Capitol Mall first is a no-brainer.

It would work sort of well for getting everyone to northwest areas, but do squat for getting people on the westside to say, the Scottsdale Airpark.

PHX_PD

Mar 15, 2007, 3:03 PM

I don't understand the need to connect to the Metro Center area though. Is that area really a big employment hub? Do people really need to board light rail in Tempe so they can get to Castles-N-Coasters?

I think they like Metro Center because there is plenty of room for a large Park & Ride there, and commuters from the west valley wouldn't have to cross the interstate.

There is also a very large business complex on the east side of I-17, as well as the Sheraton Hotel, DeVry University, Ottowa University, and the Art Institute.

Sekkle

Mar 15, 2007, 6:15 PM

^ The extension to Metrocenter will not cross to the west side of I-17. It was originally supposed to do so, but the plan was scrapped (it was actually renamed the Northwest Extension instead of the Metrocenter Extension - probably becasue of the fact that it won't exactly go to Metrocenter). I assume they would build a park & ride lot on the east side of I-17 at the terminus of the extension, and I heard talk of a pedestrian bride across the freeway, but I don't know if that will be in the plans or not.

demmeri

Mar 15, 2007, 7:27 PM

man i dunno about this lightrail thing....i think a rail system like the one chicago has (not the el, but the one that connects the city to the suburbs) would better serve maricopa county. i just don't think it's going to get enough cars off of 1-10. My dream plan for phoenix would be to have a heavyrail line running from apache junction along the 60 to the airport, then through downtown, then along the 10 to buckeye. imagine like 30-something stations and park-n-ride all along this route...

yes, i think the may help our inner-city traffic just a bit, but I think this project isn't going to be a big help to the metro area, and will turn the metro area off to new rail projects in the future (like the on I envisioned)...

o yes, pheonix and atlanta are cities that have the population to take that step, and each time I pass through these cities, i know that this would be the perfect solution to thier traffic problems...

demmeri

Mar 15, 2007, 9:26 PM

http://www.lightrailnow.org/news/n_nsh_2005-01.htm

take a look at what nashville is doing...phoenix should be coming up with an intercity rail service, not wasting money on moving teenagers from mall to mall, or hoboes from downtown to east mesa...

THIS should be our next step.

Sekkle

Mar 15, 2007, 10:08 PM

^ There is a commuter rail study under way. See a few pages back in this thread.

demmeri

Mar 16, 2007, 4:41 AM

Probably because its all the same highway. I lived in St Louis for college, and roads would magically change names as they went through different cities and towns (which happens here as well, but not as often). I really hated....one road would have 5 different names and it would be very confusing.

actuallly the 101 near glendale is called the agua fria freeway, or 101 west valley as most residents like to say....then teh 101 near scottsadale is referred to the scottsdale 101, or east valley 101, or price freeway. helps end confusion....yeah but if you're a tourist, i see how that can mix you up.

demmeri

Mar 16, 2007, 4:55 AM

^^^my bad for that post didn't realise that problem had been solved...

http://z.about.com/d/goflorida/1/0/5/H/wdw-monorail.jpg

can you imagine this running from apache junction to buckeye? average speed 55 MPH?

*drools*

and the 24-laned freeway was major news among all of the transit trekkies forums, but no one oout there seems to have a pic, and from what I read in azcentrals article, there is one out there of it. but that's rediculous, and I believe that the amount of traffic on the broadway curve will be cut in half once the residents of awatukee move out of the way of progress and the south mountain is completed...

JI5

Mar 16, 2007, 7:04 PM

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\

I like it, but on the other hand - if you make it too easy to access the central city from far flung places like Apache Junction, you encourage more sprawl.

demmeri

Mar 17, 2007, 2:11 AM

^^^pheonix is gonna spawrl anyway because it's phoenix. this way we sprawl without choking to death like atlanta and then loose buisness to tucson & casa grande

<<<in favor of smart, creative sprawl.

soleri

Mar 18, 2007, 7:31 PM

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7848/p1010001qw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The station at 1st Avenue & Van Buren is going up.

I'm bullish about light rail not because I think it's going to solve traffic congestion. It won't and it can't. But it can, over the long run, allow more density in central Phoenix and Tempe. Instead of feeding the sprawl machine, it will actually feed urbanism.

There's no such thing as "smart and creative spawl". There's an inherent contradiction in that. Once you put people in single family houses with each adult requiring a car, the results are predictable. You spend primarily on highways that initially relieve and then quickly contribute to congestion by stretching horizontal development. The mass transit fix becomes absurdly expensive since the various hubs are too widely dispersed to serve efficiently.

Phoenix is probably 10 years away from the realization that sprawl is becoming too expensive as our primary development paradigm . Energy and highway costs along with precarious water resources will naturally force growth inward. It won't be government mandates but the market making this decision. At that point, Phoenix will have to develop an economic rationale other than homebuilding.

JI5

Mar 19, 2007, 9:39 AM

/\ /\ /\

It's true. It doesn't matter how any of us feel about sprawl. It will end because it simply is not sustainable for so many reasons.

http://hometown.aol.com/ji5/cartoon

vertex

Mar 21, 2007, 11:11 PM

Tempe may add circulator buses

Katie Nelson
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 21, 2007 12:00 AM

The stubby white buses that travel in and around downtown Tempe give thousands of rides to and from work, shops, schools and entertainment spots daily.

But by this time next year, the city's Free Local Area Shuttles, or FLASH buses, could give thousands more rides once its network substantially expands throughout the city.

The Tempe City Council will consider using $2.8 million to buy 39 circulator buses at its meeting Thursday night. A circulator, which seats about 18 riders, costs up to $67,920.

The city has 13 circulator buses. They travel on an east-west route from the neighborhood west of Priest Drive through downtown to streets around Escalante Park. The city is aiming to expand the program's reach by summer's end.

New routes are being vetted by the community and will be paid for with the transit sales tax approved by voters in 1996.

Cool, more free buses. Can't argue with that.

Sekkle

Mar 22, 2007, 2:05 PM

From the Republic...
Light rail's power lines are going up along Washington
Sean Holstege
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 22, 2007 12:00 AM
Workers are stringing light rail's overhead power lines along Washington Street, another sign that testing trains in the street is only weeks away.

The lines, strung between new poles spaced every 100 feet, offer a glimpse of the finished product when the 20-mile system opens in December 2008.

The $56 million power system will change the landscape. The sky above the streets will be crisscrossed with wires, particularly in big intersections where the tracks turn.

Metro will consume about 20 million kilowatt-hours each year, enough to power a new subdivision of 1,400 homes year-round. That is more than double the demand of the newest system in Minneapolis-St. Paul but barely a quarter of the power used by the Los Angeles system.

Metro engineers say they have taken steps to ensure the power system is safe and unobtrusive.

Officials also are putting in features to respond automatically to downed power lines and substation outages and prevent electricity seepage that can damage underground pipes.
I can't wait to see the trains running along the street! I know from working on some of the engineering design of this line section that Valley Metro is concerned with large trucks knocking down the overhead contact system wires at the underpass where Washington crosses the 143. I think if you look at that bridge, you can see some marks where big trucks have scraped it in the past.

PHX31

Mar 22, 2007, 2:30 PM

/\ You beat me to posting this. I can't wait either. It's amazing that this section is nearing completion, yet others are still doing underground utility work and are almost 2 years away from completion.

HooverDam

Mar 22, 2007, 2:33 PM

Im still very disappointed that our light rail is going to have wires running over head, thats so damned unsightly and it looks like something from 1920. Seems like someone would've devised a more aesthetically pleasing, yet cost effective system by now.

Sekkle

Mar 22, 2007, 3:30 PM

^ It takes a lot of power to move trains without diesel or some kind of fuel. All light rail systems, at least all that I'm aware of, run on overhead wires. The live wires have a lot of electricity running through them and need to be safely out of reach of travelers. Heavy rail can run on a 3rd rail because the rails are not close to passengers - station platforms are typically a few feet higher than the rails, and it is rare for these systems to operate at grade.

PHX_PD

Mar 22, 2007, 3:33 PM

HooverDam

Mar 22, 2007, 5:34 PM

SethAZ

Mar 23, 2007, 11:54 PM

Was there any reason that the light rail was built down Washington? I drove down Washington and Van Buren last night, just to compare the two roads, and it seemed to me that Van Buren had a lot more going on.

Azndragon837

Mar 24, 2007, 11:11 AM

Mesa is in such a sad, sorry state right now, and it's not getting any better. If there is one city I am ashamed of in the Valley, it's Mesa. A huge suburb bigger than other well-known American cities such a Miami, St. Louis and Minneapolis, the city is seriously straining its public services.

Mesa only has 3 libraries for 442,000 residents, a dull downtown, fire services stretched thin, and buses that don't run on Sundays or past 10pm on weekdays. Blame it to the largest city in America without a property tax. The poor city relies heavily on sales tax revenue to fund all public services. That sad, here is the article:

Mesa may put brakes on Saturday buses and Dial-a-Ride
Gary Nelson
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 24, 2007 12:00 AM

http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/0324mr-council0323Z10.html

Fingers were pointing at Uncle Sam on Thursday morning as a grim Mesa City Council faced the prospect of having to eliminate city bus and Dial-a-Ride service Saturdays starting July 1.

The reason: A budget shortfall created by federal law that one council member described as "not rational."

"I think it's a lousy situation, and I don't have an answer for it," Vice Mayor Claudia Walters said.

Mike James, deputy transportation director, said the city's transit budget faces a two-year deficit of $1.54 million because of an upsurge of people using Dial-a-Ride under the Americans With Disabilities Act.

When Mesa eliminated senior Dial-a-Ride service in August to save money, about 95 percent of those who had been using that service got medical approval to use ADA Dial-a-Ride, James said.

The result was a huge spike in ridership, as much as 33 percent in some months. For the fiscal year ending July 1, that will create a shortfall of about $540,000. For the next fiscal year, the deficit will hit $1 million.

Chuck Odom, Mesa's budget director, said it would be legal for the council to cover the shortfall by moving money from another part of the budget, but that would create hardships elsewhere.

Although Dial-a-Ride is responsible for the budget overrun, the city can't chop that program without also cutting fixed-route bus service.

"We do not have a choice," Walters said. "Under federal law, if we run a fixed-route system, we are required by law to provide ADA Dial-a-Ride services within three-quarters of a mile on either side of that fixed route."

Walters said the average ride could cost the city as much as $32 above the rider's fare.

Councilman Scott Somers wondered whether eliminating Saturday service would just push ridership to other days, but James said people have appointments and jobs on Saturdays that can't be moved, "so we're not anticipating a huge shift" in ridership.

Mayor Keno Hawker said this may not be the last such reductions.

"As long as you have a federal requirement for the ADA within three-quarters of a mile of fixed route systems, eventually you're going to be looking at eliminating fixed-route systems," he said. "You're going do some of it and you're going to do some of them well, but you're not going to have as many fixed routes because of the ADA requirement."

The cutbacks will be discussed by the council's transportation and infrastructure committee in mid- to late April.

combusean

Mar 24, 2007, 12:02 PM

Jebus. Phoenix barely bats an eye at $1.5 million.

Hopefully, when WGA gets built out (presuming that's really a good thing), Mesa will be able to reap revenue from a new employment hub.

Oh wait. No property tax. No high-$ corporate assessed value. Any jobs above retail are fiscally a bad idea for the city. Can you say bottom feeding?

Sekkle

Apr 5, 2007, 11:43 PM

Here's a pic from Valley Metro's website. I heard that for the initial testing of the LRV's they were towing them with a Winnebago or something because the overhead wires weren't powered yet.

http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/Downloads/Construction_Photos/images/The%20Train%20was%20brought%20out%20on%20the%20tracks%20today%20to%20start%20testing%20on%20Washington%20between%2044th%20St.%20&%2056th%20St.jpg

sundevilgrad

Apr 6, 2007, 2:07 PM

Nice! Can't wait until those babies are powered on and cruising the street.

ForAteOh - you should post this on the thread in the City Compilations section...

andrewkfromaz

Apr 9, 2007, 6:00 AM

Hey guys I'm just curious if anyone knows what the results were of HDR's study of transportation in Scottsdale, in particular transit.
Personally I agree with the libertarians that LRT may not be the best option for Scottsdale, but not for the same reasons they trumpet repeatedly. I believe rail should be placed where people will ride it, and where people will have to ride it. Valley Metro states that the Green Line (Thomas Rd.) is its busiest bus route. Why not build rail for the poor people, when we know they'll use it? I don't understand why Scottsdale residents think they even might should have rail. Let them sit in traffic in their BMWs, see if I care! Poor people pollute more (older cars) so it makes more sense to provide them with more options anyway.
/rant
So I'm interested to see what HDR comes up with for Scottsdale, how much of the currently limited Federal funds the various solutions require, and what Scottsdale's residents' response is.

vertex

Apr 19, 2007, 5:34 PM

Phoenix continues it's march towards an entirely alt-fuel/low-emissions fleet. Not much longer...

New clean-burning fuel buses make debut (http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/0419phx-greenbus0419-ON.html)

Kellie Hwang
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 19, 2007 09:04 AM

Standard diesel fuel buses are out, clean-burning fuel buses are in.

The Phoenix Public Transit Department introduced its new ultra-low sulfur diesel bus early this morning at the Phoenix Central Station downtown. Passengers en route were welcomed with steaming cups of Starbucks coffee and a sneak peak into one of the new eco-friendly 40-foot buses.Transit officials thought Earth Week was the best time to showcase the new buses, a total of 126 that will be arriving by this October.

"We are just trying to do our part in the making a difference by providing more frequent service and encouraging people to get out of their vehicles," said Debbie Cotton, the public transit director. "When it comes to saving the environment, it is money well spent."

Brandon Weber, a Phoenix resident who rides the bus on a daily basis, was delighted to stop at the event before catching his ride.

"I think it is great they are doing this . . . we need more events like this because it gets people out into town and lets them know what is going on," he said.

Once all the new buses start running, the old diesel fuel buses will be removed bringing the total Valley Metro fleet to 535. The remaining buses not running on the low sulfur fuel use alternative fuel.

andrewkfromaz

Apr 21, 2007, 6:24 AM

I think this is tremendously exciting. NEW BUSES! :tup: :tup:
I wonder which routes tend to use the old buses and how they're going to allocate the new ones. I can't tell you how jealous I've been of the super-nice buses on Mesa's Route 30 and Scottsdale's Routes 72 and 81, so it's totally time for Phoenix to get in on the action.

sundevilgrad

Apr 23, 2007, 7:28 PM

Check out azcentral.com for the article about the proposed South Mountain Freeway. The small, tiresome, vocal group of residents from the world's largest cul-de-sac are threatening to get the feds involved in the freeway debacle. I'm so tired of these NIMBY's! Bulldoze their houses already and get the freeway built. It's not our (the other 4 million residents of the Valley of the Sun) fault they didn't do proper research before purchasing houses that were in the direct path of a future freeway, but there holding everyone else hostage.

combusean

Apr 24, 2007, 12:03 AM

JCarp

Apr 24, 2007, 12:20 AM

Putting it on the Gila River Indian reservation makes more sense--like the 101 will be in a few years, there could be the potential for "infill" type office development on both sides. I believe this idea, which the tribe thoroughly shot down before, is getting resurrected by a leadership change in the Indian community.

I completely agree. If the GR tribe allowed the freeway to parallel the reservation boundary, but only if they put it about 1/4 mile south of said boundary, it would give them valuable freeway property on both sides of the 202. It would also funnel many more people past their new Casio just to the West of South Mountain. To me it is a no brainer. :koko:

FireMedic

Apr 24, 2007, 11:39 AM

I completely agree. If the GR tribe allowed the freeway to parallel the reservation boundary, but only if they put it about 1/4 mile south of said boundary, it would give them valuable freeway property on both sides of the 202. It would also funnel many more people past their new Casio just to the West of South Mountain. To me it is a no brainer. :koko:

Will their still be a Tunnel though the western end of South Mountain

Any one got a map of the allignment path of the future Queen Creek Freeway that runs From Santan Freeway to Route 79 ?

combusean

Apr 24, 2007, 4:38 PM

^ Its called the Williams Gateway Freeway...basically just doglegs off the 202 just east of the airport, and then makes a straight shot across to
US-60.

Will their still be a Tunnel though the western end of South Mountain

It appears as if they're allowed to build on indian land, they get a little better buffer around the mountain. It's possible it could avoid a major cut.

http://www.azdot.gov/Highways/Valley_Freeways/Index.asp

http://emvis.net/~sean/ssp/valley_freeways.jpg

I could be full of shit, but I think the 801, the "I-10 reliever route" was supposed to be just that, a reliever route located just south of the existing I-10 alignment. I sent them in a pretty crude map suggesting that it be moved south closer to the river, and lo and behold that appears how the freeway is panning out.

I hope i'm not giving myself too much undo credit, but sometimes I wonder if sending elected officials an email really gets stuff done on occasion. A little while after I sent Phoenix honchos an email telling them to partner with WGA rather than have WGA eat Sky Harbor for lunch years down the road due to lower costs, Phoenix partnered with WGA otherwise out of the blue.

:shrug:

HooverDam

Apr 24, 2007, 4:44 PM

I remember hearing something a while back about turning Northern Ave into an expressway...does anyone know more about this? It seems like a good idea to me, because there aren't nearly enough east-west highways in Phoenix. You can either take the 101 to the far north, or the 10 through downtown. It seems like all the traffic goes to one of these two options and bogs them down. If Northern was a raised expressway between the 17 and 51, it seems that would get a lot of use.

sundevilgrad

Apr 24, 2007, 4:47 PM

Maybe you're just psychic?

Vicelord John

Apr 24, 2007, 4:49 PM

combusean

Apr 24, 2007, 4:54 PM

I was going to create another thread, but I figured i'd share with you guys a much better Google Maps than is available on maps.google.com

http://www.azcentral.com/maps/popup/

I don't understand why this is, but the Google Maps provided through azcentral is vastly more detailed than the regular one. Altho you don't have directions and business search (not yet at least), you can find out more of the backroads--eg, I didn't know there were so many Indian Routes on the Gila River reservation. It's pretty nifty.

HooverDam

Apr 24, 2007, 5:15 PM

thats like 3 miles... not worth it.

Well perhaps it could go from the 51 all the way to the 101s West leg.

andrewkfromaz

Apr 24, 2007, 7:17 PM

I think the idea of building freeways in built-up areas where they don't exist has fallen out of fasion. It's true that there are no good means of traveling east or west in North/Central Phoenix, but I don't think this is going to change, ever. Too much protest from neighbors, preservationists, etc. The fuss that Awhataukee residents are putting up about the 202 would be nothing compared with planning and building a new freeway through any neighborhood in Phoenix.

vertex

Apr 24, 2007, 7:34 PM

There have been plans in the past for an east/west freeway, most often aligned with or near Camelback Rd. Even as late as the 1985 bond election, there were plans for a freeway to connect the 101 loop on both ends, with the alignment along Camelback. Neighborhood opposition put a stop to that.

http://www.arizonaroads.com/arizona/az50.html

I remember when ADoT started buying parcels in east Phx, somewhere around Indian school, and razed the homes. They ended selling the parcels back to the public about 10 years ago. They started doing the same thing in east Scottsdale.

FYI, here is a map from 1960, showing a similar alignment. It also comes from arizonaroads.com.

http://www.arizonaroads.com/pics/urban1960.jpg

vertex

Apr 25, 2007, 1:23 AM

Here we go folks!!! A light rail train, under it's own power, cruising down Washington St.

Wish I could imbed the video clip into this post, oh well. For right now, just click on this link for the video (javascript:open_MediaPlayer('http://www.azcentral.com/phpAPP/multimedia/flash.php?path=rtmp://azcentral.com/news/azr/0424lightrail_r','mediaplayer','toolbar=no,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,width=300,height=300')).

Light rail test runs smoothly (http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/0424tr-rail0424-ON.html)

William Hermann
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 24, 2007 12:22 PM
Every week now vital links are being made in the Metro Light Rail line construction.

This week, the link is being completed between it and the light rail bridge over Tempe Town Lake. And Tuesday, for the first time, a one-mile section of test track on Washington Street between 48th and 56th streets was powered-up and a light rail vehicle was run along it at low speeds.

"It Works! Thank God," said Metro Light Rail spokeswoman Marty McNeil as the vehicle inched down Washington Street on the newly installed electric power lines. "We've towed one of these out here before, but this is the first time we've done it under power, and it's working great."

She said the goal of the test was to make sure power was being transmitted to the vehicle, and checking the software that helps operate the vehicle.

The 200-passenger light rail vehicle tested was one of 17 that has been assembled and one of 50 that will be used, McNeil said. She said that as vehicles are assembled they will be put through tests, "to break them in just like you would a new car."

"We want to check the propulsion system, see if the electric current is being collected OK, see if it runs smoothly," she said.

McNeil said now that rapid strides are being made in the development of the line, people are starting to get excited.

"We've finally reached the point where we're seeing a lot of visible progress, which makes it more exciting for everybody," McNeil said. "It's fun to see drivers on Washington Street seeing us and it's fun to get a thumbs up from people."

McNeil said that on Thursday night a high-speed test of the rail vehicle will take place on Washington Street.

"We'll take it up to 58 M.P.H. - three miles per hour faster than it's regular maximum speed - and then we'll slam on the brakes," she said. "It should be very interesting."

At the Tempe bridge, track linking it with track on Washington Street is going down, concrete is being poured around the track and the connection is being made.

The $21 million 1,531-foot-long bridge is a steel truss with concrete-reinforced piers. It was structurally completed last August, making it one of the most finished segments of the 23-mile $1.4 billion project.

Gregg Kent, Tempe's project engineer for light rail, said that on the bridge the rails are put upon rubber supports, the rubber supports are fastened upon raised concrete plinths and the plinths rest upon the concrete bridge roadbed. It's a system that increases the efficiency of electricity transmission to the train on the metal bridge, Kent said. For the tracks in the middle of the road, the rails are embedded in concrete.

Two tracks cross the bridge with an emergency walkway wide enough for wheelchair use on each side, in case a train needs to be evacuated, Kent said.

As the track work is completed on the bridge, the power poles and lines that will conduct the electricity to power the train will be put in place.

nbrindley

Apr 25, 2007, 3:33 AM

awesome news! it's great to see the train moving under it's own power.

Tfom

Apr 25, 2007, 4:32 AM

KEVINphx

Apr 25, 2007, 6:35 AM

This is my first post, so forgive me if this seems crazy, but why don't we all just get flying cars that fold up into a small briefcase that we can carry with us wherever we go. I feel like I saw something similar to this on t.v. like twenty years ago.

lol, are you being sarcasitc? I surely hope so!

anyway, thats exciting , the train will go right past my apartment when finished! That is, if im still living here when its completed

bryan r1

Apr 25, 2007, 10:41 AM

FireMedic

Apr 25, 2007, 11:27 AM

How long (miles) would the cut or the tunnel have to be to go threw
South Mountain and how high (feet is it) at the western end were
the the South Mountain freeway will have to be cut or go under.

vertex

Apr 25, 2007, 4:46 PM

Vertex's light rail video does not seem to be working for me. I found a couple uploaded on youtube.com. Perhaps this is the same one.

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=phoenix+light+rail&search=Search

The videos are not spectacular but its all I have to look at from here in Tucson.

Sorry, it's neither of those. This clip shows the train moving at about 15-20 mph up-and-down Washington st. Try clicking on this story link (http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/0424tr-rail0424-ON.html), and then choose the 'more videos' link on the right-side of the page. If it still doesn't work, you probably don't have the necessary plug-in, or you need to enable javascript.

The one on the bottom is pretty new, but it only shows construction in midtown, while the other one shows the train under its' own power, but only on the tracks just outside of the maintenance facility.

Btw, on last nights newscast, channel 3 announced that there would be a "high-speed" train test this Thursday night on Washington, and that the train would be taken up to 60mph! They didn't say what time this would happen though...

combusean

Apr 25, 2007, 9:11 PM

How long (miles) would the cut or the tunnel have to be to go threw
South Mountain and how high (feet is it) at the western end were
the the South Mountain freeway will have to be cut or go under.

It's a cut that has been described as "20 stories"--which is pretty friggen significant. I read somewhere about 1000' ROWs being acquired for freeway corridors, but posts on azcentral points out it will be a quarter-mile wide, where Quartz Peak is now.

I really like the 51st avenue alignment, mostly because the west-side distribution centers are clustered there and westward. I drove around the area the other night--it's pretty crazy if you've never been out there. Massive petroleum tanks, significant freight operations, rails left and right, and the industrial sprawl of relatively big buildings continues for miles in every direction. Hopefully they can make it work out with out having to tear into the mountain.

Upward

Apr 26, 2007, 12:16 AM

Tunneling under South Mountain sounds pretty crazy to me. There's significant opposition to that kind of thing in SoCal (such as the extension of the 710 in a tunnel under Pasadena, and one tunneling under some mountains to provide a more direction connection from Riverside to southern Orange County), and the projects in question are more "necessary" than this.

combusean

Apr 26, 2007, 5:31 AM

^ Upward, they're not tunneling under South Mountain, they're cutting the freeway straight through. I think in the future a light rail/HOV thoroughfare connecting Central Avenue on the north to the Chandler Boulevardish area would work quite well.

Maybe something like this is the solution for connecting that stupid cul-de-sac...they're gonna be dragged kicking and screaming somehow or another.

andrewkfromaz

Apr 26, 2007, 6:52 AM

Eeeesh. No.
Sorry to be Mr. Negative here, but cutting through the nation's largest city park is a bad idea. Let them live in the world's biggest cul-de-sac. Don't cut through our mountain, especially if they don't want it. Cutting through the western end for the 202 is bad enough.

Upward

Apr 26, 2007, 9:10 AM

FireMedic

Apr 26, 2007, 11:26 AM

Azndragon837

Apr 26, 2007, 2:47 PM

I'm surprised that Light rail line wasn't included
to go ASU stadium & Jobs.com Arena, West Gate area etc.. plus
the raceway in Avondale and the other sprawling West Valley cities
(Goodyear, Avondale, Glendale, Surprise etc..)

Actually, Light Rail will go past ASU Sun Devil Stadium and Wells Fargo Arena. There will be a nearby transit center a couple hundred feet to the west near 5th Street/Veterans Way and College Ave.

There are plans to have the light rail connect to Glendale, either via from the east through Downtown Glendale and onto the Cardinals Stadium and Glendale Arena, or from the south via Loop 101 (from the I-10) and up to possibly Glendale Avenue. There is a study underway (I believe) to determine the best route.

Personally, I like the idea of running the line from Glendale Avenue and 19th Avenue (where there is a planned northwest extension from 19th Avenue and Bethany Home to the MetroCenter area), west to Downtown Glendale, and west to the Westgate complex as a terminus.

I don't think Light Rail should run all the way to PIR and Avondale. I believe a commuter rail option is a best bet to connect the far-flung suburbs. PIR doesn't get used every day or week, so running any line there would not be the best idea...I personally don't care about PIR. That's my 2 cents!

-Andrew

PHX31

Apr 26, 2007, 3:31 PM

/\ Agreed... on both points.

The powers that be need to realize what's going on around Westgate... not only are there stadiums and now a rapidly growing entertainment complex, but those areas are going to be hosts to playoff games and Superbowls. I can't imagine they won't realize that potential higher costs would be offset by much higher benefits. Plus, with the amount of people that cover an event like a superbowl, they stay in hotel rooms all across the city. You know a bunch of people would be smart enough that are from out of town that want an easy transportation option to get to that area and the stadium. Plus, parking and the traffic around the stadium would be an absolute nightmare. I think most people would rather sit on the train for 20-30 minutes and walk to the stadium, rather than sit on the 101 or and arterial street around there for 2 hours waiting to park, then walk to the stadium.

On a typical day, a lot of people are going to be wanting transportation to Westgate, aside from driving. I think people are wising up regarding drunk driving, and hopefully (and I think it will) the light rail will be a crutch for bar patrons who go to bars and want to drink, but want to get home safely.... I know I'll be one of them! Hell, I may never step foot in Westgate unless I can ride the train home.