Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[PhxSprawler]

I bolded the most important part within the article....

More Valley drivers becoming HOV-lane cheaters

When they say "United Civil Group did the study for MAG" they really mean me. I work for United Civil Group and I just finished this 1.5 year-long study for MAG. I have no idea why it is front page news, and I didn't have any idea they were going to give us a shout out... I'm famous!

Congratulations on the recognition! It's always nice to find your work is meaningful.

Now, do you have any clout to ban trailers in the carpool lanes? You would be my hero! :worship:

[Phxbyrd211]

Wow, I had no idea that's what you did during the day. I hope you guys are telling them not to put in toll lanes in the HOV. And why don't they extend HOV during certain weekend times like ball games and concerts? You could use the message boards to alert people whether it was in effect or not.

[PHX31]

Well, that's not all I do, I have many different traffic engineering jobs on my desk here at United Civil Group, but that one was a big one for me.

Essentially, we didn't study what to do with the HOV lanes, and we (me, specifically) don't try to plan anything (that's MAG entirely and not up to us consultants). So I can't try to persuade them to do anything with the HOV lanes... this project was just an attempt to get a snapshot of how the HOV lanes (and really, the whole roadway system in the Phoenix Metro) are working, especially in relation to vehicle occupancy. There was a ton of stuff the "reporter" left out.

We have some pretty radical ideas on how to manage the freeways in the area (imagine a world where large vehicles like Hummers and H2s and gigantic quad-cabbed pickups, and other SUVs are "punished")... but its mostly up to MAG.

[Phxbyrd211]

Over the years I've dreamed about how I would redesign the interstate highway system. I would make them very wide and that's scary but it's also scary to think about how much waste we have in our transportation system by inefficiency. I think large trucks should be relegated to a separate two lane division of the highway. Then I would run freight rail down the center and commuter rail on the outsides. This way the single car driver can cruise at 60mph without interruption and there would be a tremendous amount of gas saved.

[PHX_PD]

I attended Valley Metro’s meeting earlier tonight about the Northwest extension of light rail. It was great to see a huge turnout of 500+ people, although half of them were probably there to complain. Anyway, I didn’t hear much new info, but they did come out with some specifics.

There will be stations on 19th Ave south of Glendale (~ Lawrence Rd.), south of Northern (~ Augusta Ave.), and one on the south-west corner of 19th and Dunlap. The Dunlap station will be integrated with a 3 story parking structure containing 1,000 spaces. They are planning on making it expandable up to 1,500 spaces by adding a level or two if there is good usage. Phase 1, which goes from Montebello to Dunlap (3.2 miles), is expected to be operational by December of 2012.

[Sekkle]

^ Thanks for the update!

[andrewkfromaz]

Sounds great! Thanks for keeping us in the know!

[Phxbyrd211]

I heard the mayor speak at a community meeting a few weeks ago and he indicated that the city could borrow some money to accelerate this schedule. I think those of us who live in Phoenix need to make this known to our councilmen and keep the pressure up to move these dates forward. Basically construction should never stop because they should just keep working with the tools and machinery in place.

[JimInCal]

Future bright for Gateway development
'Aerotropolis' concept reported to excite many
Art Thomason
Arizona Business Gazette
Nov. 1, 2007 12:00 AM


It has been studied by some of the nation's most respected land-use experts, and they say its potential is unlimited.

Now "aerotropolis" is being used to describe the future of Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport and the nearly San Francisco-size area around it.

The author of the concept, an acknowledged expert on aviation infrastructure, logistics and urban development, came to Mesa last week to discuss Gateway and its bright future.

John D. Kasarda is the Kenan Distinguished Professor of Entrepreneurship at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

He shared his expertise during a "visioning workshop" at the Mesa Convention Center, including a look at other airports as generators of new American cities.

"Now that you have the (General Motors) Proving Ground, (a 5,000-acre parcel east of the airport) there is a unique opportunity to take a blank campus and design an airport and development link that enriches not only the airport, but the entire metropolitan area," he said during a telephone interview before the talk.

"Gateway is beginning to get traction now," he said. "The types of opportunities that evolve from development around the airport are going to be exceedingly rich if done in a visionary, not business-as-usual, way."

The airport, Kasarda said, also is blessed with a higher-education component, a knowledge-based environment not normally found at airports, but an important part of an aerotropolis.

His presentation in Mesa looked at the airport's future and its planning needs in the context of what is taking place at airports around the world.

Kasarda is a senior fellow of the Urban Land Institute, the prestigious land-use research group that studied the Mesa-based airport in September and called it "the ignition for a 42-square mile economic engine that can transform the entire Phoenix metropolitan area."

Kasarda said the aerotropolis concept is emerging "because of the advantages airports provide to business in the new speed-driven, globally networked economy."

"Airports," he wrote in an article examining the concept, "are no longer simply places where airplanes land and passengers and cargo transit."

"Like the manufacturing industry," he said, "the service sector has increasingly found airports to be an attractive location. Airports have become magnets for regional corporate headquarters, trade representative offices, professional associations and information-intensive firms that require executives and staff to undertake frequent long-distance travel."

The aerotropolis concept, he said, appears to fit plans for the future of Gateway as it evolves into a reliever for up to 1.2 million annual passengers, an international cargo hub and education center producing highly skilled employees for nearby aerospace companies.

The multifaceted campus will provide the economic engine for a new community of corporate headquarters, executive homes and one of the world's leading research universities, say airport officials and developers.

Mike Pearson, professor of aviation law and management at Arizona State University Polytechnic and an air-traffic controller at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, said Gateway's explosive development will dramatically change its appearance over the next 10 years.

"You won't know it as it exists today," he said. "That's not only from an infrastructure standpoint but from looking at the evolution of the entire campus."

Sporting its new name, Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport, the historic airfield has new development demands that will be challenging to support with infrastructure, said Jim Harris, a principal of Coffman Associates, an airport consulting firm that has clients across the country. The price tag for those roads, utilities and other municipal services is likely to exceed $1 billion, according to unofficial estimates cited by airport officials and others.

The widening of Power Road to relieve congestion along the airport's western boundary begins this month and is likely to continue for the next two years.

Mesa and airport officials said they would like to accelerate construction of the Williams Gateway Freeway, which would link the airport area to Pinal County. The freeway's projected completion date is 2020.

Much of the 3,000-acre airport will continue to be under construction throughout the next decade as companies such as Cessna and Embraer and public entities like ASU Polytechnic and Chandler-Gilbert Community College expand and build new facilities.

Loop 202, at the airport's northern doorstep, will be the airport's major connection for the foreseeable future, transportation officials in the Valley say. Bus service and light rail have not entered serious dialogue.

Barclay Dick, director of the Arizona Department of Transportation's Aeronautics Division, said that the airport's role as a burgeoning reliever that attracts regional airlines to serve secondary airports instead of trying to recruit major carriers appears to be working well.

"Sky Harbor, unfortunately, is pretty compact. . . . So the additional air service the Valley needs can be accommodated at Gateway," he said.

Allegiant Air appears to be the catalyst for that boost, Harris said.

The airline is launching low-cost passenger operations that are expected to serve 13 markets by Nov. 21. Gateway will be the fourth base for the airline, which provides scheduled service to more than 50 cities across the nation.

[PhxSprawler]

:previous: I truly hope all the people buying homes around there are smart enough to know the airport is going to be major. They should force everyone buying a home within five miles to sign an acknowledgement - an "I will not be a NIMBY" agreement, per se.

[Phxbyrd211]

I understand Williams is the easiest option for a second airport option but it doesn't really solve any of our problems in my estimation. Sky harbor is not a bad option for the east and south valley, but is difficult for the north and northwest valley. Could any small regional jet fly in and out of an expanded Deer Valley airport. I think that would better serve the county and would still leave the possibility of a Pinal County airport.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

I am a student at ASU, and for my English class, I am about to begin writing a persuasive essay. The topic that I choose is about public transportation. My goal is to persuade more people to use mass-transit. In order to write a well-thought, convincing essay, I need to have good thoughts to back up my thesis (Mass-transit is an efficient way of traveling and should be used more). I would be grateful if you could give me some brainstorming ideas to back up my thesis and help me build a strong argument. Thank you.
-Sonoran_Dweller

[JI5]

/\ /\ /\
I wrote that same paper. If I still had it, I would send it to you.

Things to consider:

Pollution

Sustainability (When do you stop adding lanes??)

Equal Access (people who are unable to operate a vehicle, for one reason or another, are left crippled if there is no transportation alternative)

Rising cost of gas.

US reliance on foreign oil.

Our aging interstate system

Auto Fatalities/Injuries

Population growth

Cost of car ownership

Los Angeles traffic


- Good Luck.

[andrewkfromaz]

One of my favorite things about public transit is really abstract (and I doubt I'll be able to clearly explain it, but here goes): I like the opportunity transit provides me to get out among people with whom I may never interact. Said another way, I like watching the variety of people from different countries, backgrounds, jobs, anything you can imagine. It's far more interesting than listening to music or talk radio (yech) while driving to my destination.
You may not find room in your paper for those ideas, which may not be particularly persuasive anyway. I just wanted to pipe up.

[jvbahn]

:previous: I would also look at the benefits of the types of development around light-rail/mass transit. These tend to be more pedestrian friendly, allowing for revitalization of areas of inner-city locations. The walking encourages foot traffic, increases the community feeling because people interact with each other at the street level rather than sit sequestered in automobiles, which decreases crime due to more eyes and ears being on the street at various times(regardless of what small gallery owners in Scottsdale think). Also, the sheer efficiency of moving a 150-200 pound person around in a 4000 pound automobile burning 20 pounds an hour of fuel is not an efficient means of transportation when compared to trains or even a bus. Studies have shown widening the freeways usually has the opposite effect intended, because the larger capacity has to exit at some point, so there are massive bottlenecks all along the system where ever-increasing lanes of ever-increasing traffic have to exit out at the same place.

I would repeat points above that there is a massive need to decrease the need for imported fossil fuels, which at the moment has become a massive financial and national security burden on the United States, so any measures that would encourage lessening petroleum usage would be a major benefit to the US. This is where mass transit comes in. The supplies of petroleum we've got are in Alaska, where the sheer reality is the entire amount wouldn't last us a year at current usage rates, or the tar shales in Colorado, which require massive amounts of energy just to extract, so it's almost a net energy loser(you put as much fuel into is as you get out). There is also the supply problem, with factors such as geopolitical(most of the oil is in places that don't like us), market forces, refining, and most importantly, geological(there is only a certain amount, once it starts to decrease, you are forced to do with ever-decreasing amounts). If you think alone of the massive amounts of money involved, with the vast majority of that money going into the wallets of wonderful places like the OPEC nations, Russia, Burma or Venezuela, then it becomes clear that driving your car encourages indirectly nations and regimes which aren't exactly the most democratic or human-rights interested goverments in the world. Encouragement of mass transit now(should have been yesterday) would mean that American cities will be much better prepared for a future with increasingly unstable sources of fuel, where today's waste with SUV's and traffic filled bumper-to-bumper commutes will simply become too expensive if not impossible.

[PhxSprawler]

J15 covered it well. :)

I wrote 10 to 15 papers in college that touched on that topic. I would be happy to send the few I still have saved if you send your email in a pm.

A couple of others subjects to cover might be:

-Obesity in transit oriented vs. non-transit oriented cities.
-Induced demand (if you build it, they will come - highways and transit)
-Youth and elderly (expanding on equal access)
-Convenience for tourists/transit as a tourist attraction

[Sonoran_Dweller]

Thank you everyone for helping me. They are all great ideas/issues. I would love to add them all to my paper, but it might be too much!! I will try and get a little piece of everything. Thank you again for your contributions, I appreciate it, your ideas will help a lot.

[tempedude]

Here I wanted to share some crapy grainy photos from my cell phone camera. Its just kind of an update as to whats going on in the Tempe section of the system.

Apache Blvd segment
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3180/1113070933yh7.jpg

I've always liked this perspective. It is the light rail line next to Macayo's at the Depot which is the old Tempe train station.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6310/1113071032vk6.jpg

3rd St. & Mill Station
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/1628/1113071035dh7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Oppps....at the header I know its LRT haha typo

[Sekkle]

Cool. Thanks for the update!
Here's an article from azcentral.com about the construction in Tempe...
Tempe sees light at end of light rail construction
Kerry Fehr-Snyder
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 13, 2007 06:46 AM

The end of the line is coming for street construction on the Metro light-rail line through Tempe.

And for many business owners along the line, the end can't come soon enough.

"It's a headache," said Omar Homsi, manager of Haji-Baba, a Middle Eastern restaurant on Apache Boulevard near McClintock Drive.

For Mesa, the construction hassles will last until February. And in downtown Phoenix, road work will likely continue until July.

The two-year construction project in Tempe restricted access to Haji-Baja, and "The street was a mess before," he said. "It was down to one lane, sometimes no left lane, sometimes no right lane. Some customers, I haven't seen their faces for six or seven months."

The chaos has settled down recently, and Homsi said he is looking forward to the project's completion and the beginning of light-rail service in December 2008.

Marty McNeil, a Metro spokeswoman, said contractors are beginning the final push for construction along Apache Boulevard. Track work and street paving with rubberized asphalt are being finished up this week.

"So for motorists that means that the majority of the traffic cones will be gone," McNeil said. "Driving will be primarily cone-free and very smooth."

But Nathan Johnson, a minority owner of Watson Flowers, said many business owners along Apache Boulevard doubt that the traffic delays will be over any time soon.

"They told us we'd have no more than six months of construction in front of our place. Technically, we had that but we won't get two lanes (of traffic) back in front of us until the (light rail) station is built in front of us," Johnson said.

Although construction has cost his walk-in business about 10 percent in sales, many customers have switched to ordering flowers by telephone, Johnson said.

He said he's also looking forward to light rail and hopes that the station that is planned in front of his shop near Price Road brings a new crop of customers to the area.

"There are a lot of positives," he said. "It has cleaned up the neighborhood, increased the property values, aside from being a good people mover."

Rick Hills, owner of Hills Automotive, said he's looking forward to construction near his shop finishing up and light rail service eventually bringing new customers to his business on the north side of Apache Boulevard, east of the Loop 101.

The shop doesn't get as many customers who fail their vehicle emission tests at a nearby testing station because many want to avoid the roadwork, he said. The shop used to get two to three of those customers a week but now gets about two a month.

"People don't want to come through the construction, so they'll go east instead," he said. "I'm definitely looking forward to it (construction) being over. It's definitely been tough."

Hills said he believes light rail service will help his shop because many of his customers attend or work at Arizona State University and can drop off their vehicles and take the take the train to work.

"When it finally gets done, it will be good for business," he said.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/1113tr-lightrail1114.html

[andrewkfromaz]

3rd St. & Mill Station
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/1628/1113071035dh7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Those shades look funky. Hopefully as the station gets built up they're combined with other elements that offer real shade. Thanks for the update, Tempedude.

[tempedude]

^^^Yes the shade sails do look kind of funky. I would like to see some trees added at the stations. We just need to be patient, its not completed yet and a lot of final touches are yet to be added.

[PHXguyinOKC]

Apache Blvd segment
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3180/1113070933yh7.jpg


how and where will you be able to make left turns??

[Sekkle]

Only at signalized intersections, which will have a break in the guideway curb.

[tempedude]

A couple of shots of progress on the Tempe LRT and Bus Transit Center

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/874/1117071140ci5.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6114/1117071141kn5.jpg

A LRT Station at Priest Dr. and Washington St. mostly completed. Looks like landscaping is to be added yet. Notice the tree well on the platform. Thats what I think it is, I was in a rush when I took the pic..

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8831/1118071326my8.jpg


Sorry about image quality...its the best I have for now.

[Vicelord John]

I'm starting a collection to buy Tempedude a camera.

[jvbahn]

:previous: Haha, regardless of the low-pic quality, the only person who churns out more pics(which is what I want, since I can't be there in person), is HX_Guy.

Keep up the mobile phone jaunts! I can't get enough goings-on.

Nice observation on the tree well, I wouldn't have caught that. Better than the shade-sails, which in my opinion don't add up to jack-shit for shade

[tempedude]

I'm starting a collection to buy Tempedude a camera.

:haha: well yeah, it is the season for giving....AND ...I have been a good boy this year...uuhhhhh.... ummmm well mostly good :rolleyes:

[loftlovr]

Thanks for pics tempedude- the updates are always a pleasure!

[Vicelord John]

new/good pix here

http://valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/Downloads/Construction_Photos/index.htm

[NIXPHX77]

very cool. thanks, John.
I can't wait to ride it, and to see that bridge light up at night w/ all of its colorful displays.

[Sekkle]

From azcentral...
http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/1127tr-speeds1128.html

Speed limit near light-rail tracks to be lowered
Jen Bondeson
Special for The Republic
Nov. 27, 2007 08:49 PM
Tempe drivers are going to have to lighten up on the gas pedal starting Dec. 8.

The speed limit on Washington Street from Priest Drive to Mill Avenue will be reduced to 35 mph, from 45 mph, to better match street conditions when cars travel near future light-rail trains and stations.

The light-rail system, under construction from central Phoenix, through Tempe and into Mesa, will have a maximum speed limit of 35 mph.

Metro has been testing trains in Phoenix and will conduct similar tests in Tempe and Mesa. Before the tests begin, residents will be made aware of precautions they should take when traveling adjacent to and across tracks, said Marty McNeil, Metro light rail communications manager.

During test runs, vehicles may be stopped at intersections.

Drivers along the rail line should never stop or park on light-rail tracks. When near the tracks, drivers, bikers and pedestrians should watch for flashing white train headlights and warning bells or horns.

Safety devices that have been added along the route include countdown signals, walkways to reduce jaywalking and protected turn lanes that only allow cars to turn left across light-rail tracks when given a green arrow.

Also starting Dec. 8, speed will be reduced to 40 mph, from 45 mph, on Washington Street from Tempe's western limits to Priest Drive.

Updates: www.metrolight rail.org.

[andrewkfromaz]

Too bad. When I worked in north Tempe, Washington St. was my personal raceway. Except for the light at Center/SRP, which always turned red for like five solid minutes. I hope they've fixed that.

[Sekkle]

Well, a couple pages back, PHX31's project made the paper - now it's my turn! I'm working on the design of this one (202 to Baseline)...

Carpool lanes planned for Loop 101 from Loop 202 to Baseline
Kerry Fehr-Snyder
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 28, 2007 12:23 PM
Carpoolers driving through Tempe and Chandler will get their own lanes on the Loop 101 sooner than expected.

The Arizona Department of Transportation had planned to build 5.3 miles of carpool lanes on Loop 101 from the Loop 202 to Baseline Road first. It was then going to later build 5.5 miles of carpool lanes from Baseline Road to the Loop 202-Santan Freeway.

Now the projects, which together will cost more than $52 million, are being combined.

"It would give us efficiency of scale and accelerate our construction schedule," said Bill Hayden, ADOT special assistant for regional freeway systems.

Hayden said the change also should help shorten the construction impact on traffic.

Hayden presented the updated plan at the Citizen's Transportation Oversight Committee, which met Tuesday night in Chandler.

ADOT is preparing to spend nearly $3.9 billion over the next five years on freeway construction projects throughout the Valley. The projects include 38 miles of new freeways, 133 miles of lane additions, 75 miles of new carpool lanes and 34 miles of rubberized asphalt.

Next year alone, the agency is spending more than $900 million in projects, making it ADOT's single busiest year in the next five years.

Several of the new freeway projects being studied will affect Southeast Valley drivers.

They include a U.S. 60 bypass route near Gold Canyon and a new freeway in the Williams Gateway area.

The agency also is working on a draft environmental impact statement for the proposed 22-mile South Mountain Freeway, which would cut through Ahwatukee along Pecos Road and through the South Mountain Park before connecting to 55th Avenue and Interstate 10 in the West Valley.

Nelson Ladd, a member of the oversight committee, asked whether there's a chance the freeway could be built on the Gila River Reservation.

Some freeway opponents would like the freeway built farther south on tribal land because the proposed Pecos Road alignment would result in at least 250 homes and a church being razed.

"I would say there are discussions, communications, meetings between the community and the department," Hayden said. "The verdict is still out from them."

Hayden said chances of building the freeway on the reservation will continue to decrease as ADOT gets further along on its draft environmental impact statement, which is due out next year.

This week, the tribal government announced that it will allow ADOT access to its land to study the environmental impacts of building the freeway along Pecos Road. This was a reversal of a decision by the tribe to bar ADOT from its land to study any alignment for the freeway.

"That's a quantum step forward," Hayden said. "Before they were saying, 'You can't even come on our land.'

"Then again, maybe they're saying, 'That's it, and it's time to get on with it (building the freeway on Pecos Road).' "
http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/1128ev-transit1129.html

[jvbahn]

Too bad. When I worked in north Tempe, Washington St. was my personal raceway. Except for the light at Center/SRP, which always turned red for like five solid minutes. I hope they've fixed that.

Man, I can't tell you how many times I've been stuck at that light with not a single car coming from any other direction. Just the memory of that light makes me want to scream and pound my steering wheel.

[tempedude]

Metro will be testing the light rail system again today along Washington from about 44th Street to Priest Drive around 9 am till ? It will be without police escort, and will be operating among normal traffic conditions. The purpose is to test the signal system under normal conditions. :cool: :banana: :banana: :banana: ....

Yaah hoo...its been a long haul for us waiting on the light rail to be completed, but this is an indicator that this project is nearing it final stages in construction....and I bet that they will be testing the whole system in about 7 to 8 months...


If I have time i am going to try to get some pics....uh grainy pics but pics nontheless.

[tempedude]

I managed to snap a couple of pictures

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9538/1203070934yl5.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1835/1203070940tj7.jpg

Here is a video link. Its the best one I could find with the best long term reliability for remaining a live link for now I believe.

Source EV Tribune
Video: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/video/?bcpid=1155316042&bclid=1155075693&bctid=1330351324

[vertex]

Lucky bastard. :)

Just counting the seconds until the first accident. 5..4..3..

Edit: Judging by that video clip, the train doesn't seem to be running any faster than 25 mph.

[Sekkle]

It's getting closer! I wish I could be there to check out some of those test runs. Are they running any multi-car trains yet?

[PHX31]

What the? in the second picture the train is coming, but the opposing traffic has a green arrow?

[vertex]

Was the train stopped? Or is this a bug in the system?

[tempedude]

In the second picture, the train stopped at the light, waited and then reversed direction. So, I guess that the light was working correctly...and everything is still under testing.

Edit: I didn't see any multi-car trains tested today. ForAteOh...isn't this a section that you helped plan?

[tempedude]

^^^LOL ...I don't think my above question came out just right after reading it again after a nites rest.

ForAteOh... the question should better read as...Isn't this section of the light rail system from 44th Street to Priest Drive somewhat your baby(what you worked on)?

[Sekkle]

^ Yeah, I was involved with a bit of the design, but most of the work was done by others at my company. I pretty much begged to work on it, but didn't get involved until there was a need for "post design" work (i.e. when we got requests for information from the contractor, or when Valley Metro decided to add a station at Center Pkwy).

[Phoenix22]

I saw the new light rail running today along Tempe, near by Washington street.

It looks very nice

[PHX31]

Has anyone taken a closer look at the individual designs and artwork planned at each light rail station? Each station has been designed by different artists.

Go here:
http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/How_to_Ride/Stations/

... and click on a specific station. Towards the bottom of the page it has some depitctions and information on that station's artwork. Some of them are pretty cool.

[Sekkle]

From Joel Nilsson's blog on azcentral.com

The 20-year transportation plan for Maricopa County is running out of money
Remember the 2004 election and the vote on Proposition 400?

You probably thought that by approving a 20-year transportation plan for Maricopa County -- new freeways, mass transit and light rail extensions, arterial streets -- that our needs would be nicely taken care of.

Think again.

Costs are soaring out of control. For the first five years of the plan, it's already $2 billion over budget. If the trend continues at that pace -- and there's little in the way of good news that construction material costs will drop appreciably -- the program could be unfunded by $8 billion in 2025.

Put another way, we'd get about half of what we thought we were buying by continuing the county's designated half-cent sales tax for another 20 years.

"It's worrisome," Goodyear Mayor Jim Cavanaugh tells me. He should know. He's head of the Maricopa Association of Governments, the regional entity that consists of elected leaders from throughout Maricopa County.

These numbers could give pause to officials banking on new roadways -- a new freeway in the Southwest Valley known as the Interstate 10 reliever and the Loop 303 that cities like Surprise and Glendale are banking on.

It's numbers like this that give a sense of urgency -- at least to those who believe that we can build our way out of growth and congestion.

The Time Coalition consists of business groups that fear gridlock will cripple the state's commerce. It has been meeting with elected officials, including Gov. Janet Napolitano, to come up with a comprehensive to meet Arizona's transportation needs.

Not just in Maricopa County, but statewide.

A big unanswered question is when any plan should go to the voters. Some want 2008, but that's when antsy politicians might also be on the ballot. Others want more planning and more time to develop grass roots support, and prefer a special election in 2009.

Also unanswered is how the billions of dollars would be raised. Sales tax? Gas tax? Tollways? Force developers to pay for freeways to their developments? Receive rights of way from developers at no charge? Public/private partnerships? Fee for use of hot lanes? Federal funds? More bonding? A combination?

"The trouble is, none of the alternatives are very good," Cavanaugh said, adding that the magnitude of the funding needs is extraordinarily high at about $40 billion. "We've got to really spend money wisely.

Also unknown are what projects might be included: Pinal County wants freeways; folks in Flagstaff and Phoenix want an alternative to I-17; and there's support for commuter rail, among others.

I've watched transportation politics unfold for three decades. I've seen politicians support taxes for roads and I've seen them run from them.

I'm not convinced that a fair plan can be put together that will cross the ideological divide of taxation and growth. The cost alone will scare anybody. And then there are those who believe that we've got ours (as in Maricopa County) so why should we open our wallets to help the Yumas, the Tucsons and the Flagstaffs of Arizona.

Stay tuned because transportation finance is about to become the 800 pound gorilla of public policy in 2008.
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/JoelNilsson/11914

[PhxPavilion]

Maybe they should crack down on overspending? Just a thought.

I know construction companies milk the government, I work for the city and I see it all the time.

[pbenjamin]

Has anyone taken a closer look at the individual designs and artwork planned at each light rail station? Each station has been designed by different artists.

Go here:
http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/How_to_Ride/Stations/

... and click on a specific station. Towards the bottom of the page it has some depitctions and information on that station's artwork. Some of them are pretty cool.

There are also Station Information Sheets, which are a little harder to find, for the stations in Phoenix: Here (http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/Downloads/Publications/Station%20Information%20Sheets/index.htm)

[Phxbyrd211]

Those Scottsdale Ostriches who don't want to do much of anything to improve transportation better watch out or they'll find their own quality of life infringed upon when increasing grid-lock can no longer be ignored.

[combusean]

Light rail could be in Chandler's future (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1205cr-rail1206.html)

Edythe Jensen
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 5, 2007 11:56 AM

West Chandler could see the city's first light rail line if a new Tempe South Corridor Study shows it will relieve increasingly heavy north-south traffic.

News of the Metro Light Rail-sponsored study - one of three across the Valley looking at possible rail or high capacity transit extensions - came during a Chandler General Plan Update meeting Tuesday. The study will examine transportation needs of the area between Priest Drive and Loop 101, and Downtown Tempe and the Santan Freeway. The area includes Chandler Fashion Center and the Price Corridor.

Public meetings will start next month, and there could be recommendations for a light rail extension or other forms of high capacity transit, said Wulf Grote, Metro Light Rail project development director. Whatever the outcome, it will take years before new systems are in place, said city transportation services director Mike Normand.

A light rail extension from the line under construction in Tempe along Apache Blvd. is an option for Chandler but it's not the only one, Grote said. Additional bus lines or commuter rail service on the Union Pacific track between Kyrene and Priest roads also will be examined, he said.

The goal is to relieve increasingly heavy north-south traffic on Rural Road, McClintock Drive, Mill Avenue and Kyrene Road. Growing numbers of Arizona State University students are adding to traffic and crowding existing buses, Grote said.

Garry Hays, a member of the General Plan Update Citizens Oversight Committee, questioned the benefits of light rail to Chandler since most of the areas being considered are residential. He said focusing on commuter rail and using existing tracks to move workers and shoppers from outlying areas would be less expensive and more beneficial to the city.

Metro Light Rail was formed in 2002 with four Valley cities: Phoenix, Mesa, Tempe and Glendale. Chandler and Peoria joined earlier this year and are paying the $50,000 annual membership fees.

[Phoenix22]

Anyone know when will I 10 in the west valley be widened?

They were supposed to start in Nov this year, but I think it might be next year or who knows when.

[Sekkle]

Here's a quote from an article posted a few pages back...
Now, the Arizona Department of Transportation will select a contractor, and work is scheduled to start at the beginning of next year.

Construction would be finished by summer 2010, expanding an 8-mile stretch of I-10 to five lanes each way. The freeway now narrows to as few as two lanes in each direction.
That was published in the AZ Republic on Oct 1.

Here's ADOT's timeline for I-10 on the west side
http://www.azdot.gov/Highways/Valley_Freeways/I10/Papago/Images/I10_website_r2b.gif

[tempedude]

Here's a quote from an article posted a few pages back...

That was published in the AZ Republic on Oct 1.

Here's ADOT's timeline for I-10 on the west side
http://www.azdot.gov/Highways/Valley_Freeways/I10/Papago/Images/I10_website_r2b.gif

#8 on the map - the Bullard Ave Traffic Interchange (Phase 1) has already begun. I was by that way just a couple of weeks ago.

That stretch of I-10 is a traffic mess currently, it doesn't matter what time of day it is and you are going to run into some sort of traffic jam. Thousands of homes have been built out that way on the southwest side in the past 5 years(my guess has it around 150,000 - 200,000 new residents alone), and the new Estrella Falls Mall construction is moving right along(hence the reason for the construction of the Bullard Ave. interchange). I know for many, the widening of the freeway through the SW Valley can't come soon enough.

[PHX31]

I don't know the legality or the feasibility, but the city and state should have had more foresight to charge some serious development fees to the developers of the far flung suburbs. (or more than they already did, and have a quick schedule for infrastructure imrpovements). I'm glad I don't live out there and never have to travel the I-10 (or I-17 North, or I-10 east, etc).

[PHX31]

New light rail construction photos... I'm getting excited, we're down to much less than a year left of construction.

http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/Downloads/Construction_Photos/index.htm

My favorites:
photos courtesy of Valley Metro
http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/Downloads/Construction_Photos/images/DSC_0101.jpg

http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/Downloads/Construction_Photos/images/DSC_0117.jpg

[Sekkle]

Awesome! Thanks for posting those!

[HooverDam]

Im sure most people here know of this already, but I'm slow:

http://www.phxrailfood.com/

its a blog about the various eateries along the Light Rail line, its a pretty neat resource.

Speaking of light rail, I sent an email to Valley Metro today. I expressed my concerns about the proposal to run the idea up the SR51 and west on the I-10, and how I feel it would be better to keep the rail on major surface streets, this way you could encourage TOD/infill, and you end up with riders who aren't strictly in a park and ride situation (which if you put the rail on the freeways, is what I'd imagine you'd get based on my experience in St Louis).

So I suggested they look into running the line West on Washington and Jefferson to 19th ave, then North to McDowell. Then westbound. It could either go west all the way to 99th Ave, or there could be a slight dog leg up 75th ave or so to connect Desert Sky Mall and Cricket Pavillion and then back down to McDowell.

For the NE route, I suggested running the line North on 7th st from Camelback up to the 7th St/Dunlap/Cave Creek intersection. Then NE on Cave Creek to Cactus, and then East to PV mall.

If they respond, Ill be sure to post it.

[Vicelord John]

yup and the new gem of the light rail line is the new Los Dos Molinos which took over Sueno's spot in Plaza Azteca on 9th and Washington. I love walking over there for take out!

[PHX31]

HooverDam, I'm sure one of the big reasons for their current alignments are because of the much higher costs. Land acquisition all the way along mcdowell would be astronomical, not to mention the disruption. I would think in the long run it would be better, but I'm not sure they are willing to take the risk for the long term reward.

I really think they need a feeder into the 24th/Camelback/Esplanade/Biltmore area, if not aligning the light rail to go through the area. They need to at least service that with a streetcar that connects to the lightrail mainline going up the 51. That is already a major hub in the valley with shopping, restaurants, offices, residential. It's basically another downtown, and it needs to be linked to the rail network.

[HooverDam]

Yah I understand it would be harder/more costly, but I think in the long run it would be worth it. When I was in St Louis, I found that they seemed to have a hybrid rail system, like what ours is proposed to be. Some of it ran near or on major streets, and near major destinations (arenas, shopping centers, etc), and some of it was kind of hidden away from everything and only really used by park and riders. Obviously, the former type seemed to always be a lot more full, but this is of course not scientific in anyway, just what I noticed.

I think that the more the rail connects major destinations (i.e. Desert Sky Mall, Cricket Pavillion), and is along major roads, the better. It'll encourage more infill, which I think will be the key to our light rails success. Transit is so rarely used in Phoenix, but if more people lived with in walking/biking distance to a line, perhaps that would change.

Also, I am making an early prediction that the shade structures at the stations are going to need to be redesigned. From what Ive seen so far, they provide very minimal shade, and that will be a detriment to ridership for 6 months out of the year. They should also have misters built in, I know the Valley Metro said this would be too costly, but I wonder if perhaps the cost could be slightly offset by having users pay for the mist. I.E. you put in a quarter for X amount of time for the mist to be on. Something like that is probably unworkable though.

[gymratmanaz]

i have always wondered why the shade nets were so small.....

[HX_Guy]

How feasible would it have been to have air conditioned cabins for the light rail stops? Would it not be possible due to safety concerns?
I'm thinking a glass/plexiglass/etc enclosed station with doors on at least 2 sides and an air conditioning unit.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

How feasible would it have been to have air conditioned cabins for the light rail stops? Would it not be possible due to safety concerns?
I'm thinking a glass/plexiglass/etc enclosed station with doors on at least 2 sides and an air conditioning unit.

No way, that is going too far. If you want to live in Phoenix, you are accepting the weather that comes with it. We should not make our whole Phoenix climate controlled. If people spend enough time in the Summer weather, they will notice it is not that bad. Our Summers are the same as the Winters in the north, just reveresed. If people can live with that cold weather, then I think people can live with our Summer weather. And seriously, it does not get that hot that you would need those cabins. It would make me sick if the Metro Stops had became enclosed cabins...what a disgusting idea. Not only does that make Phoenicians spoiled, imagine the costs of powering those stops.

[HX_Guy]

To each his own, but I would welcome those type of stops. I've been in Arizona since 1992 so I know what our summers are like and yes, they are pretty bad. I've heard the comparison of our summers to winters back east and maybe when it's an extreme storm back east then it could be compared to normal summer days here, but for me, I can stand the cold better then I can stand the heat. When I'm cold, it's just that, cold...when I'm hot, I get irritated and very uncomfortable.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

I can stand the cold better then I can stand the heat. When I'm cold, it's just that, cold...when I'm hot, I get irritated and very uncomfortable.

It's the opposite with me. I sometimes say that I was made for Phoenix. When I'm warm, I like it. But when I'm cold, that is when I get irritated and stressed. I hate the cold, love the heat. I actually hate the weather that we are dealing with currently. I can't wait till May (the good life). :hell:

[HX_Guy]

You're nuts. :D

The weather we have been having these last couple of weeks has been heaven. The daytime temperatures are as good as it can get, especially now that it's sunny but still in the low 60s. The rain was great too. :)

[HooverDam]

Id imagine enclosed AC cabins would be pretty pricey, but I just think better designed stations are whats needed. I guess we'll see when the thing opens, but every time I drive by one of the stations I look for shadows that the sails are casting and they always seem minimal.

[Phxbyrd211]

Back to the transit discussion......

I think the I-10 corridor would be much better served by commuter rail that already have established tracks and lies closer to people's homes than the freeway. There can still be plenty of development around those lines although people generally don't like to live within about 100 meters of the tracks. The doesn't mean that offices, shops, cafe's and parking can't create that buffer before apartment and condo construction starts.

I don't really see the sense of building on the AZ51 when there's already an established rapid bus set-up there. I believe there are several park and ride lots and the bus lane is being brought north to Bell Rd. as I understand it. If there's going to be LR on Scottsdale Road (hopefully) and potentially cave creek then I just don't think it's necessary.

[Sekkle]

Back to the transit discussion......

I think the I-10 corridor would be much better served by commuter rail that already have established tracks and lies closer to people's homes than the freeway. There can still be plenty of development around those lines although people generally don't like to live within about 100 meters of the tracks. The doesn't mean that offices, shops, cafe's and parking can't create that buffer before apartment and condo construction starts.

I don't really see the sense of building on the AZ51 when there's already an established rapid bus set-up there. I believe there are several park and ride lots and the bus lane is being brought north to Bell Rd. as I understand it. If there's going to be LR on Scottsdale Road (hopefully) and potentially cave creek then I just don't think it's necessary.

A couple clarifications...

The Rapid buses are nothing like light rail. They aren't even true BRT, although they're called BRT by the city and Valley Metro. Light rail would run all day, as opposed to the Rapid routes which, just like express bus routes, run only at am and pm peak hours. The "bus lanes" on the freeways are not bus lanes, but HOV lanes, which, of course, buses can use. If they get congested, though, the bus won't behave any differently than a car stuck in traffic. There is no talk outside this forum and no studies being done (at least none that I'm aware of) about putting LRT on Cave Creek Rd.

I personally don't have a problem with the idea of using Cave Creek instead of SR 51, but I think LRT in the median of I-10 makes sense for reasons I've run through a few pages back in this thread.

[shawneriksmith]

I believe that LRT should be used to connect the urban areas of the Valley, while commuter rail should be used to connect the farther out suburbs. The "urban" areas would include any area with high-density residential and/or high-density hotel/office. Right now, that would include downtown/midtown Phoenix, downtown Tempe, downtown Scottsdale, and the Biltmore/Camelback area, with downtown Mesa/Glendale/Chandler and NE Phoenix/Scottsdale joining the group in the next 10 years. The other areas of the valley should be connected by commuter rail.

Light rail is better suited for areas where there should be multiple stops and more pedestrian-oriented development. Commuter rail would better help the congested highways with fewer stops (I10/17, 60, 202, 101). That is how I see tying in the whole valley with public transit. Then, each city can decide the best inner-city transportation option (trolley like in Scottsdale, bus, or streetcar).

[Phxbyrd211]

I think the last two posts speak to my points very well. As FAO points out Rapid Buses are not LR but they are a lot like commuter rail. They are there to take people to work in the morning and back at night and for single use long trips like downtown for a concert or the airport. Light Rail can do all those things as well except slower but it's also good for going to the drug store, going to get your hair done, going to music lessons and other day to day (mid-day) activities. What I'm trying to say is that SR51 would be better suited for commuter rail than light rail, only there are no tracks in north east phoenix. The intersections along the freeway are not very pedestrian friendly and not particularly close to medium density housing. It's much better and cheaper to improve and expand the rapid bus service there and use the rail funds elsewhere in the system. With park-and ride the commuter has access to their car at the stop and can do things like run short errands to the area businesses. I for one can't remember the hov lanes ever being jammed during rush hour except in cases of severe accidents. In addition I believe SR51 is slated to receive and additional HOW lane up to Shea. If the buses are running on ethanol or Biodiesel then they are still a green operation and take cars off the road.

Cave creek is not part of the regional plan but I consider it to be the best plan available for future north/south LR expansion. Between 19th avenue and Scottsdale Rd. the mountains make it very tricky and there are few vertical corridors. LR on Cave Creek could also spur re-development in an area that sorely needs it.

The idea in the west valley would be that commuter rail would have a station in every town. If you lived in Buckeye for instance, you'd drive from home to the station and take the train with minimal stops and speeds up to 65mph into downtown or the airport or tempe for a few bucks. Those stations would create some urban environment around them as you have in places like Pasadena. I don't think LR would work there because one, it's too slow. These are long distances from Tonapha to DT and the stops can only be a few. Second there are very few businesses along the I-10 and everything is car oriented. Most I-10 gridlock is from people going to and from work and that must be addressed. More lanes are coming but they will soon be taken up.

[combusean]

Thought this was cool, I'll probably be there:


On Thursday, December 20 please join Friends of Transit and Mayor Phil Gordon for a Friends of Transit Mixer
at:

Sonoma Casual Dining
25 W. Van Buren, Phoenix
5:30-7:30 pm

Enjoy free appetizers and receive a free drink coupon compliments of Friends of Transit!

At 6:15 pm, Mayor Gordon will choose the winners for the prize drawing—so get there early to enter! Win gift certificates from:

● $100 to Hinkley’s Lighting, 4620 N. Central Ave, Phoenix (2 chances to win)
● $100 to Perry Monge Salon, 3 S. 2nd Street, Phoenix (2 chances to win)
● $100 to Thomas Bishop Automotive, 3414 E. Washington St., Phoenix (2 chances to win)

Sonoma Causal Dining is a new concept in dining- inexpensive excellence. Variety, fresh quality ingredients and speedy self service combine to bring you a unique experience. Succulent rotisserie chicken is the heart of their menu—lightly seasoned and spit-roasted throughout each day. Relax in their warm, wine country interior and enjoy a delicious meal!

[tempedude]

^^^Nice...and the food sounds delicious.

I snapped a couple more Light Rail pictures when I was out and about this morning.

Looking along Terrace towards Sun Devil Stadium
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7397/1214071020wn2.jpg

LRT Station nearing completion at Rural Rd. and Terrace with ASU Manzanita Hall in the background
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2854/1214071023ya5.jpg

Work continues at Tempe Transit Station. The lot around the station is being prepped for paving.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5103/1214071035bt5.jpg

[loftlovr]

Great pics but we need to pitch in and get you a camera!! :D

[tempedude]

Great pics but we need to pitch in and get you a camera!! :D
:haha: i saw a nice $1,200 one at Tempe camera the other day.

lol yes, i do need to get a better camera. hopefully soon. in the meantime you can donate at tempedudebrokecollegeboy.org :D :cheers:



(pssst....its a fake link) just to cover my butt:)

[vwwolfe]

As I was out doing morning errands, I noticed that they planted trees along the south side of Camelback from central to 7th Avenue. Nice touch.

Also there were trees planted in the median just west of Central on Camelback.

[AZ KID]

What type of trees were they??

[Don B.]

I think they are mesquites or palo verde trees. :)

--don

[loftlovr]

I passed by a Light Rail car on the loop 202 today- cruising past the Washington part of the line- and going a decent speed (although not top speed)
I thought I was having dillusions!
Couldn't get pics but it was a beautiful sight!

[tempedude]

I know a similar article was recently posted about this...but I think this one is a little more comprehensive in scope.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 19, 2007 - 8:12PM

Light-rail path disruptions will ease

Garin Groff, Tribune

Roads on the East Valley’s portion of the Metro light-rail line will be smooth and construction-free by March — and possibly sooner.

GRAPHIC: Light rail timeline

Crews are rapidly finishing the most disruptive construction work along many stretches of the 20-mile system and have finished paving two significant road sections.

In-road work has been completed from east Phoenix through Tempe, and nearly all of the Camelback Road section in Phoenix.

Construction crews are still struggling to move utilities in some parts of Phoenix, but Metro CEO Rick Simonetta said Wednesday the organization is spending money to accelerate work where problems have threatened to delay the system’s December 2008 opening date. The extra expenses should ensure that the system will open on time, he said.

“We’re pretty confident in that,” Simonetta said.

Metro is looking to several key accomplishments in the near future, including:

• By January, roughly 15 continuous miles of track will be laid from the line’s starting point in Mesa to McDowell Road in downtown Phoenix.

• By spring, train testing will expand from a mile-long section in east Phoenix. It will run east to a new transit center in Tempe near Sun Devil Stadium.

• Also this spring, construction will be completed on most roads. Only the mile-long 19th

Avenue stretch and parts of downtown Phoenix will be paved later, probably this summer.

Crews have run into problems moving utilities in those areas. Also, central Phoenix’s one-way streets and density have made work there go slowly.

“The downtown, in particular, is very complex,” Metro spokeswoman Marty McNeil said.

Businesses are eager to see crews finish the road work.

Once construction started earlier this year in Mesa, business dropped 30 percent at Asian Cafe Express at Dobson Road and Main Street in Mesa, owner Michael Leung said.

“Last year, we were doing very, very good,” Leung said. “This year, so-so.”

Customers tell Leung they can’t find his restaurant or that they refuse to drive on torn-up Main Street, he said.

Once paving is done, more work still remains. But it generally won’t disrupt traffic, because the final projects occur where the trains will run and not where motor vehicles travel.

In a move that signals Metro’s confidence the system will be done on time, the transit authority approved a $243,000 contract with an event planner to organize a grand opening gala a year from now. Metro already plans to let the public ride the system without charge the weekend of Dec. 27-28, 2008. Metro expects the grand opening will draw 100,000 to 150,000 people.

The project is still within its $1.4 billion budget, but just barely. Metro has just $4.9 million to cover unanticipated expenses, and Simonetta said he favors spending money to speed up work when problems could push back the opening. Metro looked at delaying the opening by three months to avoid paying extra crews to work now, but an analysis showed that didn’t make sense, Simonetta said.

Source: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/104845

[PHX31]

From my time as an inspector on the Tempe/Mesa section (line section 5) of the light rail project, I can tell you the underground utilities, and all that goes along with them (moving, replacing, etc.) are one huge pain in the ass, and really slow-going work.

Let's all hope it really does open on Dec27th next year!

[Sekkle]

Metro already plans to let the public ride the system without charge the weekend of Dec. 27-28, 2008.
I'll have to plan a Christmas trip back to Phx for next year! :tup:

[HooverDam]

Thats cool that they are letting people ride it for free those two days, but I think they should expand that free window to include New Years. All the drunks at the Fiesta Bowl Block Party would then be encouraged to ride it, and maybe they'd become 'hooked' and really dig it.

[Sekkle]

^ Valley Metro is like that drug dealer you heard about in D.A.R.E. You get your first taste for free, and the next thing you know you're goin down on some bus driver cuz you can't afford the $1.25 ride. Ah, I've seen it happen all too many times...

[andrewkfromaz]

:stunned: :slob: :yuck: BAD mental picture...

[exit2lef]

Im sure most people here know of this already, but I'm slow:

http://www.phxrailfood.com/

its a blog about the various eateries along the Light Rail line, its a pretty neat resource.



A belated thanks for the favorable mention of my site. I noticed some traffic from this forum in my referrer log a few weeks back, but it has taken a long time for me to register for this site (a long story involving numerous email addresses). In any case, I like what I see in these discussions, recognize one or two users from other forums, and look forward to throwing in my two cents between restaurant reviews and my real job.

[Don B.]

^ That's a cool website. I'll be sure to get it exposed to all of the law students at 4041 North Central at the Phoenix School of Law, where I'm in my second year. Halfway there, baby, and so is the light rail!

--don

[Phoenix22]

Scottsdale approves transportation plan
Jane Larson
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 9, 2008 12:00 AM

SCOTTSDALE - After two years of planning overshadowed by heated debate over whether light rail has a place in Scottsdale, the City Council on Tuesday evening unanimously passed Scottsdale's Transportation Master Plan.

The plan is designed to guide the city's improvements of streets, mass transit and bicycle and pedestrian travel through 2030. Left for an upcoming regional study was a recommendation on what type of high-capacity transit, if any, would be best for Scottsdale and where it would go.

"There is a lot of meat and valuable information in this plan," Mayor Mary Manross said.





Calling it a good thing to provide transportation choices to all citizens, she reminded council and audience members critical of the transit component that the city needs to look to the future.

"We have to work with what is, but we can't stop there," Manross said. "No progressive city in the world does."

Though half a dozen residents spoke out against light rail, it was Councilman Bob Littlefield, a light-rail opponent, who noted that most residents list congestion as the top transportation issue they want solved.

He blamed traffic congestion on increased density, but Councilwoman Betty Drake said it was a sign of a vibrant economy.

"My perception is light rail won't solve congestion, more lanes won't solve congestion and more freeways won't solve congestion," Drake said. "The only thing that will solve it is a loss of jobs and a decline in population."

The Transportation Master Plan provides a lot of capacity to address the congestion problem, consultant Charlie Hales of HDR Engineering Inc. said.

It includes 174 new miles of roadway lanes, 67 intersection improvements, 200 turn-lane improvements and 13 new bridges, he said.

[exit2lef]

Amazing. Here's yet another report and Scottsdale still hasn't made up its mind about light rail.

[andrewkfromaz]

Scottsdale has a lot of political opposition to light rail. In addition, they're waiting for more detailed studies to determine whether light rail would actually be the best option for Scottsdale. I'm of the opinion that if Scottsdale residents truly don't want light rail, even after the studies are finished, then that's fine, light rail should be built where it's actually needed to help people get around. West Phoenix, South Phoenix, the far west valley, and so on. Light rail should only be built in Scottsdale if it has some degree of political support and it's shown that there will be enough riders for it. I don't think those demands are unreasonable, but I don't think Scottsdale's ready to meet them just yet.

I do think widespread opinions on the light rail system will change after this year, when the starter system opens for business. I must say, I can hardly wait!

[Archdevil]

light rail should be built where it's actually needed to help people get around. West Phoenix, South Phoenix, the far west valley, and so on

I just wanted to make a short comment because I have heard you say this several times. I agree that most people in Scottsdale are probably wealthy enough that they don't need more public transportation options. The one thing you are forgetting about is all of the people that work in Scottsdale. All of the hotel staff, servers, maids etc.. The people who do all of the dirty work for the rich people in Scottsdale do not live in Scottsdale and they must commute from the west valley and South Phoenix. So I just don't think you are making a valid argument for Scottsdale to not have light rail service.

[andrewkfromaz]

You might be right. Maybe I should open my mind up on this. I still want to see the studies and recommendations that HDR is going to make to Scottsdale City Council. Until I do see some final material, I'm going to keep urging against whole-hearted support for Scottsdale light rail. Many of the people on here think that Scottsdale has to have light rail. I still want to change that perception, until it's proven through examination by professionals that downtown Scottsdale would benefit more from light rail than other places in Phoenix. I have no doubt that someday that finding will be made, I just think it's something like 20 years out. :)

[loftlovr]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e7/joelcontreras/Pics18/Downtown15.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e7/joelcontreras/Pics18/Downtown13.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e7/joelcontreras/Pics18/LightRail3-1.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e7/joelcontreras/Pics18/LightRail.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e7/joelcontreras/Pics18/Downtown25.jpg

[combusean]

Cool photos Joel. :)

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e7/joelcontreras/Pics18/LightRail3-1.jpg

Random idea: Stretch white teflon fabric between the lattice work of the Westward Ho antenna tower with a backlit computer-programmed color light display, creating a 300' beacon in the night sky.

[loftlovr]

I like the way you're thinking but I am not sure if I'd want it for the Westward Ho-
maybe because I like it historic and think that contrasting would take away....

I really like what Bruder's remodel did to the building on 1st and Monroe though- do the led's still come on at night or was that just a fancy shmancy trick for getting it sold!?

It would be nice to get some of the shade structures that stretch from one side of the street to the other.

I think an old ASU rendering for Downtown Phx showed this.

Even if we had to do like 2 spots a year because of expenses.... Eventually it would create an identity for Downtown Phx with our thoughtfullness for shade. -Not sure how durable the fabric would be, but I imagine there could be some design alternatives.
This in conjunction with the million trees would be a perfect compliment to the momentum of Light Rail, Downtown ASU, Cityscape, JSED, Convention Center expansion....

Can we get involved on that?
(Band together as Urban finatics and start a basic website for planting trees Downtown and collect donations and have volunteers plant them)?
I would imagine a non-profit group set up for planting grass on all vacant lots and planting trees would be widely supported, especially after the press got wind. I'm sure we would have to get it cleared by City and lot owners first...

We could have a chart showing our numbers and our target.

Organic ideas like this could be a good start like what Denveraztec said about the Denver citizens....
Thoughts?

[HooverDam]

^I'd be all for it. I'm also all for shade sail stretching from one side of the street to the other in certain places (in strips obviously, you want to shade the street but not make it feel like you're living underground). A creative use of colored fabrics would look really cool w/ the light coming through.


As far as Westward Ho goes, I'd rather the antenna just be taken down, it looks ridiculous. It seems nearly as big as the building itself, and is cock eyed. I know the building used to be white, and apparently the current grey color is more historically correct, but I think I prefer it white. It matched the Post Office which looks great w/ the reddish tile and the white paint, the grey just seems to class w/ the tile to me. Oh, and of course I'd like the old folks to be moved somewhere else and for it to be turned into a luxury hotel but that'll never happen.

[pablosan]

Great photos. It really looks like your transit projects are progressing quite well.

[combusean]

It should be noted that if you're making additions to historic buildings, the part that's new has to be completely distinguished from the rest of the building. Sort of like the contemporary building access built behind the Phoenix Union High buildings off Van Buren.

You know, I always hear that the light rail will hamper surface street traffic. After all the prioritized lights combined with medians and split lanes, which appear to better manage turns, wouldn't surface street traffic flow smoother?

[exit2lef]

You know, I always hear that the light rail will hamper surface street traffic. After all the prioritized lights combined with medians and split lanes, which appear to better manage turns, wouldn't surface street traffic flow smoother?

Don't forget about smoother left turns. Along streets with light rail; the left turn lane will always display either a red arrow or a green arrow. No more ambiguity about when to turn and trying to squeeze through at the end of the cycle.

[gymratmanaz]

Trees Trees Trees. YES. But even if someone raises money and planting, wouldn't the city have to sign off on it as well as upkeep?