Robson Square Renovations

[Rusty Gull]

Umbrella to cover robson square
'The Clam,' the brainchild of Premier Campbell, controversial addition to a city landmark

Miro Cernetig
Vancouver Sun

Monday, January 07, 2008

It's hard not to love Robson Square, that landmark of modernist concrete with a waterfall created by Arthur Erickson in the heart of downtown Vancouver. But our political leaders are aiming to improve upon the master architect's work.

Plans are now circulating inside the provincial cabinet to erect a giant wooden roof over the square. It's a secret project, being fast-tracked by Premier Gordon Campbell himself. Only a select few have yet seen it.

But if the provincial cabinet greenlights it, as it likely will in the next few days or weeks, it's going to be a controversial addition to the city skyline.

The artist's drawings I've seen bring to mind a giant wooden clamshell arching between the steps of the art gallery and Erickson's famous waterfall, covering Robson Street.

Truth be told, it also seems a bit like a giant outdoor skating arena, with a roof but no walls, suddenly going up in the middle of the city.

The skating rink, already on the site but underground and no longer used for skating, is to be refurbished. Looking up from its surface, people will see a complex sort of wooden latticework -- a design from northern Europe, I understand -- that you often see on large wooden buildings.

The premier's plan is to have the massive roof built by the 2010 Olympics, for celebrations during the Games. And -- here's where things get interesting -- keep "the clam" around permanently. It's hard to say whether this thing is a stroke of architectural brilliance or a disaster in the making.

It's always hard to predict response to such public projects. This may turn out to be our version of New York's Rockefeller Centre, a great urban square that also has a skating rink, or an eyesore.

But it might be a good idea to get this bold concept -- which won't come cheap, incidentally -- out for some public input. If built, this will change the look and feel of downtown Vancouver's skyline for years to come.

The premier's idea is primarily inspired by the Olympics. He wants to have a roofed public space -- another so-called Olympic livesite -- where the public will gather free of charge during the Games and watch events on giant screens and celebrate as a community. The idea -- also being worked on with the federal government -- is to perhaps link up similar venues set up in Toronto's Nathan Phillips Square, Parliament Hill, Montreal's Vanier Park and other similar locations around the country and province. CTV, the official broadcaster of the Olympics, would likely be in charge of the video feeds.

Another part of the plan, however, is business.

The province hopes to show the world a signature piece of "wood" architecture from Vancouver. This is a theme the province has been pushing hard, to try to stimulate sales and new markets for the beleaguered forestry industry. The B.C. pavilion being built near Tiananmen Square for the Beijing Olympics is going to have a massive wooden facade. A similar log house was a hit in Turin, Italy during the last Winter Olympics.

An even better idea -- I'd say it's the one that should go ahead even if the roof idea collapses -- is that the province will also set up a permanent Asia-Pacific centre on the edge of Robson Street. It will be near where the current Sears store is and is intended to be a high-tech centre to facilitate trade with Asia and build cultural and commercial ties across the Pacific. It's a wonder we don't already have such an institution given this province's links to Asia.

Still, erecting a massive wooden umbrella above Robson Square, despite some of its potential merits, also raises a lot of issues.

Will it detract from the wonderful design of Erickson? Robson Square is one of the most popular tourist destinations in Vancouver. Can engineers even build such a heavy structure on the current site? Will it attract the homeless, who want to get out of the winter's rain? And if we need an enclosed area for Olympics celebrations, can't we just save millions of dollars by putting up a temporary tent for a few weeks? Another thing you've got to wonder is whether such a massive structure can be built in time.

This giant roof, which would entail a major overhaul of Robson Square, would have to be approved by the province and then go through Vancouver's planning department and city council. Olympic organizing officials insist there would be enough labour to get the job done on an accelerated schedule, now that construction on Games venues is winding down. But it's anyone's guess if the city and province's bureaucrats, not always known for easy cooperation, could actually get this built in time for 2010.

mcernetig@png.canwest.com
© The Vancouver Sun 2008

[Hot Rod]

???

[johnjimbc]

I guess the forest industry promotion is the most obvious question, but wouldn't a unique and modern glass structure be more impressive? If you're going to go to all that trouble and expense, why block light with a wooden canopy?

Link to slideshow of incredible modern glass structure recently completed in DC. I've seen it in person and it's truly an incredible experience being underneath it.

Slideshow requires flash plug-in: http://www.npg.si.edu/exhibit/courtyard/slideshow/slideshow.html

Here is a link to the page describing it: http://www.npg.si.edu/inform/courtyard.htm

[twoNeurons]

"wonderful design of Erickson?"

[jlousa]

*l* ^^^ that's what I was thinking.
While I respect Erickson and beleive some of his work is incredible, I also think he's overated, both Robson square and to a degree SFU are much better concepts on paper then reality. I do enjoy the MacMillan Blodel building though w/o interior columns it's a terrific building for those that work there.

[Kilgore Trout]

Quebec's politicians have also latched onto the idea of boosting the forestry industry through architecture. They want Montreal's new symphony hall to be built of wood and are even thinking of requiring the use of wood in all provincially-funded building projects.

BTW, am I the only one who finds this column to be very awkwardly written?

[Rusty Gull]

Actually, I think it was quite well-written. Miro Cernetig is one of the top journalists in the city, and his column always has something interesting to say. Plus, he got the scoop on this before anyone else.

[officedweller]

The Robson Square skating rink needs a revamp anyways - it's pretty well universally acknowledged that the skating rink and sunken plaza have failed as a public space. I think that's in large part because of the existing dark plexi umbrellas that screen any views of what lies below. If moving the canopy upwards into this clamshell allows more open vies into the sunken plaza, then I think it would certainly help the square.

I think this statement is a bit much "If built, this will change the look and feel of downtown Vancouver's skyline for years to come."

Despite the sunken plaza needing help, it sounds more like the clamshell would be built on the site of the grassy treed knoll. The same site that was proposed for a glass boxy retail pavillion several years ago.

Of course, after the Games, it's amphitheatre style and covered shelter would be adopted as the preferred site of Robson Square protests.

[Hed Kandi]

I like clams . :blush:

[EastVanMark]

"wonderful design of Erickson?"

was thinking the exact same thing.

We cant get a soccer stadium done that would be PERFECT for Olympic celebrations and ceremonies, but we can come up with bonehead ideas like this. The only question remaining is whether or not they will bring in the toy Dinosaurs they were going to put in Stanley park (another dumb idea), to be on display under the "giant clam". Maybe the dinosaurs could have the Olympic mascots in their teeth to more suit the occasion.:koko:

[SpongeG]

i can't believe people don't like the waterfall building

sounds like an interesting idea


now if only we could get the city to celebrtae new years like even fricking edmonton has fireworks

[LeftCoaster]

^I dont think anyone here has a problem with the supreme court building (the waterfall building). I think everyone has an issue with them saying that robson square is a wonderful design, as it is generally viewed as a failed space.

I personally think they should eliminate the entire sunken square and open up the whole space as a level public square... it would be much more functional

[SpongeG]

they need to get rid of that druggie and rat hang out ie the clump of trees

only ever see junkies go up in there or rats

open it up and make it safer for everyone

[officedweller]

I once saw this MASSIVE rat run out of there across the plaza.

[vanman]

I read this in the paper today. I still don't know what to make of it. Like the article stated, it could end up absolutely awesome or ridiculously hideous.

[Lee_Haber8]

Why don't they free up the whole square by getting rid of the courthouse part there and consolidate it somewhere else - or does that make too much sense? Make it into something like Pioneer Courthouse Square in Portland

[deasine]

I just hope this roof thing won't turn out to be another Plaza of Nations.

[Canadian Mind]

I read this in the paper today. I still don't know what to make of it. Like the article stated, it could end up absolutely awesome or ridiculously hideous.


Always the option to burn the fucker down.

[ckkelley]

I'd really like to see a rendering of this puppy. I have a front row seat here and hope it's an interesting design. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's not just a dumb idea.

[Canadian Mind]

I'd really like to see a rendering of this puppy. I have a front row seat here and hope it's an interesting design. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's not just a dumb idea.

Good, I can throw the Molotovs from your window or deck if the thing is a piece of shit.

As an Aside, Google spell checker thinks Molotov stands for demolition... I love it.

[worldwide]

now if only we could get the city to celebrtae new years like even fricking edmonton has fireworks
we have in the past been known to get exceptionally rowdy in this city at the mere mention of fireworks.

btw London, Ontario also has fireworks and im sure there are dozens of cities in north america 1/5th its size that do aswell

- thunder bay anyone :) -

[officedweller]

I just hope this roof thing won't turn out to be another Plaza of Nations.

i.e. temporary? no problem then - just wait 20 years if no one likes it.

[SpongeG]

we have in the past been known to get exceptionally rowdy in this city at the mere mention of fireworks.

btw London, Ontario also has fireworks and im sure there are dozens of cities in north america 1/5th its size that do aswell

- thunder bay anyone :) -

it sucks - world class city my ass

i was watching CNN throughtout the day they showed, sydney, Moscow, Paris, London, Berlin, Istanbul, India, Honk Kong and Taipei were amazing with fireworks coming off the buildings and signs and crowds

and there is vancouver

yea well were going to close the street today around 9 pm - such a joke

[Coldrsx]

it sucks - world class city my ass

i was watching CNN throughtout the day they showed, sydney, Moscow, Paris, London, Berlin, Istanbul, India, Honk Kong and Taipei were amazing with fireworks coming off the buildings and signs and crowds

and there is vancouver

yea well were going to close the street today around 9 pm - such a joke

Edmonton does a great show...

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/gallery/fireworks07/works1.jpg

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/gallery/fireworks07/works2.jpg

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/gallery/fireworks07/works4.jpg

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/gallery/fireworks07/works3.jpg

awesome shot!

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/gallery/fireworks07/works8.jpg

[EastVanMark]

it sucks - world class city my ass

i was watching CNN throughtout the day they showed, sydney, Moscow, Paris, London, Berlin, Istanbul, India, Honk Kong and Taipei were amazing with fireworks coming off the buildings and signs and crowds

and there is vancouver

yea well were going to close the street today around 9 pm - such a joke

Frustrating, isn't it? :shrug:

Why can't we in Vancouver strive to be mentioned amongst those great cities you mentioned rather than sleepy, boring cities like Portland Oregon.

With our position on the globe, we could be featured on international newscasts the way a REAL world class city, Sydney Australia gets coverage with their great fireworks display around their world famous bridge with the light dancing off of the water. Hmm....sounds similar to what COULD happen here...instead... we get the usual scaled down lame attempt at an event and the police and civic officials advising people to stay home rather than venturing to the city center as was the case during the 99/00 New Years disgrace.

[mr.x]

it sucks - world class city my ass

i was watching CNN throughtout the day they showed, sydney, Moscow, Paris, London, Berlin, Istanbul, India, Honk Kong and Taipei were amazing with fireworks coming off the buildings and signs and crowds

and there is vancouver

yea well were going to close the street today around 9 pm - such a joke

I was at Tsim Sha Tsui in HK watching the fireworks go off at New Years Eve.....it was quite breathtaking.....too bad we're unwilling to pull off such a similar event, even though we're quite capable of doing it.

i've always thought we could use Science World as the site for New Years Eve countdown celebrations. the many spikes of the geodesic dome could be installed with lasers and lights, with fireworks going off from the dome and along False Creek on barges.



with regards to the clamshell, why does the article keep saying it will change our skyline forever? how tall can this clamshell really be??? they make it sound like we're building the Great Pyramid or something.

i welcome change to Robson Square, the underpass where the rink is is often empty....opening the area up would be great.

[mr.x]

Architects slam roof idea
Damian Inwood, The Province
Published: Sunday, January 13, 2008

Premier Gordon Campbell has been urged by the prestigious Royal Architectural Institute of Canada to keep a proposed "wooden umbrella" over downtown Vancouver's Robson Square firmly furled.

And NDP Olympic critic Harry Bains said yesterday it's time for Campbell to end the secrecy surrounding the project, which surfaced in news reports last week.

Campbell is apparently interested in building a large, clamshell-shaped wooden roof over the square to create a covered outdoor space for public gatherings during the 2010 Games.

"Mr. Premier, please do not rush into a quick solution to construct a roof structure that may not be reversible, appropriate or sustainable just to impress the world during the Olympics," RAIC president Kiyoshi Matsuzaki wrote in a letter to Campbell.

"If Gordon Campbell wants to make such a drastic change to a treasured public space, he needs to involve the public," said Bains. "But even though it has been almost a week since the premier's plans for Robson Square were first made public, we are still in the dark."

Campbell couldn't be reached for comment.

dinwood@png.canwest.com

[deasine]

I don't see why everyone is so negative about this (well not everyone here of course).

This is a welcome change. With regards to the Sky line - yeah I'm sure this clamshell will be Wall Centre height =.=" Gosh that NDP Olympic critic needs to like shut his big mouth up... god I vomit everytime i see him speaking >=/

[Rusty Gull]

Mr. X and Deasine have a good point. Anything is preferable to the current status quo -- an empty and rather pathetic public square. Glad to see that the Premier is at least paying attention to our public spaces. Let's hope he, the various levels of government, and Arthur Erickson can work something out.

[natelox]

Because architecture is so tangible, many people treat it as something easy and simple. But, as I'm sure many of you can appreciate, just because one can draw does not mean their work deserves to be placed in an art gallery. What Gordon Campbell should have done / should do, is consult the architectural community with what he wants Robson square to be. Let the architects figure out how to best manifest his idea.

And by architectural community, I mean the upper echelon architectural community.

[deasine]

I'm sure there is an architecture firm that already gave renderings to the premier.

Anyway, we know large wooden roofs can look very nice. Just look across the Fraser to the Olympic Skating Oval:

http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/Oval_Main_Activity_Area_-_2010_Games16689.jpg

[SpongeG]

the square gets good use in the summer though - most weekend nights there is something going on

problem is no one on robson really notices

they really need to work on making the entrances more obvious and welcoming

[natelox]

I'm sure there is an architecture firm that already gave renderings to the premier.

Anyway, we know large wooden roofs can look very nice.

That is not the point. On both accounts.

[Canadian Mind]

I agree with both points. This should be far more public, or at least transparent.

[Architype]

It seems any addition to the Square should have input from Erikson himself.

[hollywoodnorth]

It seems any addition to the Square should have input from Erikson himself.

so he can fuck it up even MORE? sure nice plan ;) not!

[mr.x]

It seems any addition to the Square should have input from Erikson himself.

he's the one who built Robson Square, which is usually dead, as well as the prison-like SFU campus atop Burnaby Mountain. the campus does have its architectural merits, but i find that it has a cruel atmosphere.

[djh]

It seems any addition to the Square should have input from Erikson himself.

The problem with consulting Erickson is that he cannot look at his work with functional perspective - he almost sees his work as purely art. A few years ago he was consulted to work on structural changes expansions to the Museum of Anthropology. He basically slated any plans that involved changing his work!
So I bet if he was asked to change the Robson Square he would say it was perfect as it was and didn't warrant any change of any kind, even if it meant the whole place would be more usable!

[mr.x]

^ he's in his late-80's isn't he? i'm amazed that he hasn't gone senile already (though he might have, he said there was a need for a lot of parking for the new Waterfront Stadium a few years ago during those public meetings). however, gotta give him a pat on the back for the Ritz Carlton. that's one design i would never ever want to see changed.

[hollywoodnorth]

^ he's in his late-80's isn't he? i'm amazed that he hasn't gone senile already (though he might have, he said there was a need for a lot of parking for the new Waterfront Stadium a few years ago during those public meetings). however, gotta give him a pat on the back for the Ritz Carlton. that's one design i would never ever want to see changed.


seems to me he has been Senile for about 50 years......have you seen the shit he turns out? His buildings dont relate to pedestrians or the street well at all......he is a car loving old man.

Its all wanna be artist crap that comes out looking like an accident at a concrete factory.

1500 West Georgia makes me want to cut myself when ever I walk by it.

[hollywoodnorth]

^ he's in his late-80's isn't he? i'm amazed that he hasn't gone senile already (though he might have, he said there was a need for a lot of parking for the new Waterfront Stadium a few years ago during those public meetings). however, gotta give him a pat on the back for the Ritz Carlton. that's one design i would never ever want to see changed.

I doubt he did very much of the "design work" he has others at his firm who are young and can still function, walk, eat, pee on their own, etc.

[officedweller]

I agree that Robson Square is dysfunctional. Even the interior spaces (law courts registry, law library) are incredibly "bunker-ish". It's one of the only buildings in the City with a full block floorplate (actually 2 separate blocks). Its only appeal is the green roof and the atrium. The elevated and the sunken plazas have done no better or worse that other similar plazas in the City. (i.e. the unused rooftop plaza at Vancouver Centre above the current London Drugs was removed maybe 5 years ago with renovations to the former Vancouver Centre Theatres)

[twoNeurons]

There was a plaza up there (above London drugs)?

[officedweller]

There was a plaza up there (above London drugs)?

The stairs providing access to the top level and the planters and benches were removed during the renovation. This pic was taken before the renos - now it's just a barren rooftop

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8606/pic00014ak1.jpg

[deasine]

Well Arthur Erickson's works are more of an idealistic idea. His concept in the SFU and Robson Plaza (I think) is that it should create more discussion, talks, a more community-like gathering... but in-reality, it doesn't really turn out that way.

Bing-Thom has a much more different approach to this. For instance, their SFU campus at Surrey included those "sunken study areas" which are suppose to encourage productivity and discussion. And those study areas are very similar to Erikson's concepts, except done in a more "fresh/modern" way. Now I'm not at university yet, nor do I live near Surrey, so I'm not sure if that's actually working or are they even used.

[SFUVancouver]

In many respects it doesn't need to be so complex. At school today the facilities people put out folding tables and chairs in the north main concourse of the AQ for Clubs Days this week. Before they were done most of the tables were occupied by people on laptops, eating lunch, conversing, and bringing more life to the monolithic hallway than normal. The study nooks and such are hidden from the main concourse and are too dim and uncomfortable to be useful much of the time. SFU just can't seem to get the "soft scaping" right. The landscaping is fine, same with the outdoor hardscaping, but the experience of people's bums in the built environment seem to have been the last thing on Erickson's mind when he designed the place. I still like it though.

[officedweller]

I could see this project evolving into tall wooden masts with giant fabric sails to provide shelter during the winter months and removed (or replaced with a more transparent fabric for some shade) for the summer months....

[deasine]

that wouldn't be a bad idea either... making a semi Canada Place yet showcasing BC's amazing wood - or perhaps what pine beetle wood can turn out to be (but that's kind of like the olympic skating rink)

[bils]

I could see this project evolving into tall wooden masts with giant fabric sails to provide shelter during the winter months and removed (or replaced with a more transparent fabric for some shade) for the summer months....

i'd be interested to see how giant fabric sails would fare on a night like tonight!

[mr.x]

i'd be interested to see how giant fabric sails would fare on a night like tonight!

all we need is a thousand-foot tall Mary Poppins, everything would come clear after that.
http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/cic2006-12-15.jpg


i wonder how BC Place and Canada Place are holding up tonight.

[mr.x]

Meet the $40-million giant clam of wood and glass
Plans for Robson Square include a new Asia-Pacific Centre and a reopened skating rink

Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun
Published: Saturday, January 19, 2008

So here's the latest on the clam, that giant roof envisioned for downtown Vancouver.

The B.C. government is still dreaming of creating a massive roof -- price-tag in the neighbourhood of $40 million -- to arch over Robson Square. It believes we need a place to gather out of the rain for festivals and cultural events. (they mean protests don't they? -_-)

But the clam's going to be made of glass and high-tech wood. And it won't be going up until after the 2010 Olympic Games.

That's the news that came out of a tour of Robson Square on Friday with Economic Development Minister Colin Hansen, who had a half-dozen government officials and architect Clive Grout in tow.

The structure, which would rise 10 to 15 metres above Robson Street, is seen as a way to create a civic gathering spot in the downtown. It is also going to include a reopening and expansion of the skating rink, which has been closed for years, but is being refurbished with with the help of General Electric.

The plans, part of which you will see above, do involve a major structural revision to Robson Square, designed by Vancouver's renowned architect Arthur Erickson. In addition to the massive roof, which is to be partially made of a wooden lattice to highlight the utility of B.C. forest products, we will see the creation of an Asia-Pacific centre on the square. It's meant to emphasize the province's commitment to fostering trade and cultural ties with Asia.

As the facelift goes ahead, there will also be a replanting of the garden. Some of the trees are too big, the officials said, and need to be replaced. Some of the trees, in fact, wouldn't fit under the roof that's being talked about.

Although Erickson has said he has had minimal involvement with the revamping of his creation, both Hansen and Grout said they will listen closely to the octogenarian to ensure one of Canada's great pieces of architecture isn't compromised.

"I will work very closely with Arthur," promised Grout.

In the run-up to the Olympics, the public can expect to see a major refurbishing of Robson Square, said Hansen. Even with the erection of the roof put off, leaky foundations and cracked concrete need to be fixed by 2010.

The idea, Hansen said, is to be able to finish refurbishment work before the Games, have the skating rink in operation and create an Asia-Pacific centre that leaves no doubt the province has set its sights on the other side of the Pacific.

When -- or if -- the roof goes up, Hansen said it might even help with global warming. Since it's glass, he said it might even be a source of solar power.

mcernetig@png.canwest.com


© The Vancouver Sun 2008





I'm not so sure about it now...only 10-15 metres tall? That's only 30-50 feet??? There certainly is a need to revive Robson Square, but i'm not quite sure if this is it....but then again, we need renderings to actually see what is planned!

[ckkelley]

There actually was a rendering in the print copy of the Sun today. Although I would really rather see a picture of a model, I'm thinking that I could support this idea.

According to the article the roof will be made of wood and glass. It actually could be quite attractive.

Now that it's been put off 'til after 2010 I'm rather doubtful it will actually be built. Let's face it, this puppy's got a ways to go to win the hearts and minds of the early detractors.

We'll see.

[Coldrsx]

In many respects it doesn't need to be so complex. At school today the facilities people put out folding tables and chairs in the north main concourse of the AQ for Clubs Days this week. Before they were done most of the tables were occupied by people on laptops, eating lunch, conversing, and bringing more life to the monolithic hallway than normal. The study nooks and such are hidden from the main concourse and are too dim and uncomfortable to be useful much of the time. SFU just can't seem to get the "soft scaping" right. The landscaping is fine, same with the outdoor hardscaping, but the experience of people's bums in the built environment seem to have been the last thing on Erickson's mind when he designed the place. I still like it though.

and therein lies the problem with far far too many architects and designers. Sometimes the best designs are the ones people use the most...

NYC is a great example of this for the city created a program a few years ago to provide folding chairs and tables to parks, squares, and at the base of building arcades to promote what i like to call "spontaneous life". It has worked so well they plan to do more of it...and i know many cities in europe that do the same thing.

I wish Canadian cities did more of this, but i would bet they would be vandalized, stolen, or become hangouts for the wrong intent.

god we have so much to learn here.

[MistyMountainHop]

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7025/picture1pe4.png

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4974/picture2jp7.png

[bils]

looks like the richmond oval has moved downtown

[Coldrsx]

40mill for that...

[agrant]

I like this project. Maybe people will actually use the square once it's complete. The expansion of the skating rink is a must if they use it again, as the current size is pretty pathetic. 40 million doesn't seem that shocking.

[SFUVancouver]

Now that I have a concept for the scale and form, I too find I like it.

In my head I was evisioning something like the SFU glass and wood spaceframe above the convocation mall writ large above all of robson square, including the VAG steps and the Lawcourt stairs, etc. Basically a giant wood roof for those two city blocks.

The space this roof, I don't see the resemblance to a clamshell, will occupy is a void space that doesn't really work right now. I hope while they are at it that they demo the above-grade garden across from the VAG steps.

[SpongeG]

sort of like how seattle has that covered street - but better

http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/seattle/2/seattle_convention_center_8941.jpg

[mr.x]

after seeing the diagrams, i actually quite like it. I don't understand why after 2010 though....we have an opportunity to show the world something very unique here.

[hollywoodnorth]

good word gordo!

[Canadian Mind]

New that I've seen it, I like it, originally I was imagining something actually shapes like a clamshell suspended over the square, but this is really nice.

Wish we could push the government to try and have it completed before 2010, would be a really nice thing to show off and certainly would get some air time on the camera's.

[mr.x]

i'm gonna have to say that it doesn't really look like a clamshell...and with these improvements, the two glass roofs that currently exist would be removed and should open the square to the public eye:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/127/323583602_dd79ff2be4.jpg

[vanman]

^I have always thought that those round glass roofs (plexiglass?) look hideous. I'd be more than happy to see them gone and it would open up the place to the public eye from the street. As long as the new roof allows as much daylight in as possible I think this thing could actually work. At night they could have some funky lighting as well to help liven up the place.

[deasine]

exactly... it should be built along with the ice rink upgrade so that when we open the ice rink... we can also celebrate the grand opening of the newly renovated Robson Square!

[mr.x]

maybe we should start a 2010 completion petition. :D ...and write to the premier.

[Canadian Mind]

maybe we should start a 2010 completion petition. :D ...and write to the premier.

Well write one up. I don't know how to myself. I'd gladly sign the thing.

[Rusty Gull]

Agreed with all of the above. The re-introduction of the ice rink to Robson Square is wonderful -- but it will die a quick death if it continues to be hidden under that current roof.

The square needs to be opened up... and this revamp seems to be the way to do it.

[cjohnny4]

There was just a report on CTV 6:00 p.m. news about trees being cut down near Robson Square. Speculation is running wild that this is a sign that Gordon Campbell is forcing the clam shell on us without public consultation. The NDP guy is up in arms!

[clooless]

The NDP guy is up in arms!

Tell me something new. :rolleyes:

When isn't Carole James and company going off half cocked on some obscure travesty they half create?

I like the new design for Robson Square. From the little we can see here, I can conceive that it would look much better than those two glass domed abominations that are there now.

[johnjimbc]

Foster Glass Canopy just completed in Washington, DC (pic from the world architect news online):

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.showprojectbigimages&img=2&pro_id=1633

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/1633_2_1000%20Foster%20Smithsonian%202.jpg

Apparently this is similar to another one he designed for London. I haven't seen the one in London but the one in DC is incredible. And that is a large building with a very large courtyard (hard to get a sense of scale in the photo). This one is metal and glass but imagine the shape in the sketch with wood and glass. I think it would be really impressive and open up the courtyard magnificently.

Another plus of the canopy is that it can be uplit from below at night for some incredible effects and the glass atrium appears to glow at night so from a distance it has a very impressive appeal.

Anyway, I think it is a cool design and I hope it does come together as part of the renovations of the Robson square.

[johnjimbc]

I don't have any practice getting a photo posted here and not much luck trying, but here is the link to the photo of the DC courtyard with the glass canopy.

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/1633_2_1000%20Foster%20Smithsonian%202.jpg

[mr.x]

There was just a report on CTV 6:00 p.m. news about trees being cut down near Robson Square. Speculation is running wild that this is a sign that Gordon Campbell is forcing the clam shell on us without public consultation. The NDP guy is up in arms!

if the trees are being chopped down this quickly, maybe it's a sign that the roof is [hopefully] being fast tracked for 2010?

i would have preferred if they had transplanted those trees elsewhere rather than cutting them down.

[Yume-sama]

The concept is different than I had imagined... but that's a good thing. For some reason I had a really screwed up vision of what a clam shell looked like. :haha:

[SFUVancouver]

Well if this thing is partially intended to promote the sale of BC wood then why wouldn't we cut down trees at Robson Square. To do anything else would look bad.

Anyway, I like this. I've done a 180 degree turn in my opinion now that I've seen the elevation and the scope of the project. That should be a lesson for the Premier, always have something visual to accompany the release of information. Otherwise the mind will conjure what it will.

[Yume-sama]

Well if this thing is partially intended to promote the sale of BC wood then why wouldn't we cut down trees at Robson Square. To do anything else would look bad.

Anyway, I like this. I've done a 180 degree turn in my opinion now that I've seen the elevation and the scope of the project. That should be a lesson for the Premier, always have something visual to accompany the release of information. Otherwise the mind will conjure what it will.

Isn't that the truth, for some reason I envisioned really large versions of what Calgary has going on downtown, the controversial "Metal Trees" which they intend to put a cover over... for some reason?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/413353960_dff6d06e68.jpg
From daryl_mitchell on Flickr
http://flickr.com/photos/daryl_mitchell/413353960/

[SpongeG]

Tell me something new. :rolleyes:

When isn't Carole James and company going off half cocked on some obscure travesty they half create?

I like the new design for Robson Square. From the little we can see here, I can conceive that it would look much better than those two glass domed abominations that are there now.

maybe she and he can stand out on robson protesting the trees being cut down

saw them on the news getting people to sign a petition against the fare hikes at broadway station :rolleyes:

[David]

i actually don't mind this roof either... dare i say i like it
like most, it is totally different than how the Sun reporter made it sound. but what do you expect..

[Architype]

There was just a report on CTV 6:00 p.m. news about trees being cut down near Robson Square. Speculation is running wild that this is a sign that Gordon Campbell is forcing the clam shell on us without public consultation. The NDP guy is up in arms!
This sounds like it could inspire movies - "The Giant Clam that ate Vancouver"; Clamzilla, or Clamfield. :)

Seriously, it could work and look quite impressive if done right.

[clooless]

Foster Glass Canopy just completed in Washington, DC (pic from the world architect news online):

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.showprojectbigimages&img=2&pro_id=1633

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/1633_2_1000%20Foster%20Smithsonian%202.jpg

Apparently this is similar to another one he designed for London. I haven't seen the one in London but the one in DC is incredible. And that is a large building with a very large courtyard (hard to get a sense of scale in the photo). This one is metal and glass but imagine the shape in the sketch with wood and glass. I think it would be really impressive and open up the courtyard magnificently.

Another plus of the canopy is that it can be uplit from below at night for some incredible effects and the glass atrium appears to glow at night so from a distance it has a very impressive appeal.

Anyway, I think it is a cool design and I hope it does come together as part of the renovations of the Robson square.

Thanks, and thanks to johnjimbc for his picture as well.

I absolutely love this glass canopy. What an incredible design.

[djh]

I agree that Robson Square is dysfunctional. Even the interior spaces (law courts registry, law library) are incredibly "bunker-ish". It's one of the only buildings in the City with a full block floorplate (actually 2 separate blocks). Its only appeal is the green roof and the atrium. The elevated and the sunken plazas have done no better or worse that other similar plazas in the City. (i.e. the unused rooftop plaza at Vancouver Centre above the current London Drugs was removed maybe 5 years ago with renovations to the former Vancouver Centre Theatres)

Speaking of which and a bit off-topic, but whatever did happen to those empty cinemas in Vancouver Centre? I remember when they were closed, one less cinema on Granville, but there was no announcement that they would be bought or sold. Are they just sitting there unused? Surely SFUs downtown campus could have made good use of them?

[SpongeG]

i think they are a language school now

[officedweller]

That's right, they renovated the space and added windows.

****

The roof for Robson Square looks good.

The removal of the domes and what on the elevation looks like escalators down to the sunken level directly from the street would hugely open up the space.

A Foster-like configuration for the glass part of the roof (between the two massive supporting wooden edge beams) would, in effect, be a "second-generation" approach to Erickson's space-frame over the Law Courts atrium.

[Rusty Gull]

Trevor Boddy has weighed in today, and his prognosis is not good.

I always enjoy reading Boddy's work, but I have to disagree with him, at least in some places, on this story. For example, I don't believe Robson Square is the overwhelming success that he makes it out to be.

With that being said, his article is worth reading.. and he raises some interesting points about design and functionality...

---
URBAN PLANNING
Overarching aspirations

TREVOR BODDY

From Friday's Globe and Mail
January 25, 2008 at 12:00 AM EST

We dwell collectively in cities, so it's only natural that we would come to think of a place like downtown Vancouver as one big home. Conceived this way, our downtown peninsula makes for a very strange dwelling indeed — one having a huge backyard (Stanley Park and Burrard Inlet), lots of tiny bedrooms (all those condos), but precious little living room (urban public open space.)

By a long shot, downtown Vancouver's largest and best-loved "living room" is Robson Square. It is a welcome oasis of light and greenery for the residents of our ever-denser core, a healthy outlet for our city's political life as favoured locale for protests, and home to the Arthur Erickson buildings that put Vancouver on the world's architectural map.

Coming on the heels of the destruction of the Erickson-designed Graham House last month, a howl of protest has erupted recently over provincial government plans that would radically alter the multi-levelled public square and lush gardens. Robson Square "revitalization" plans estimated to cost $87-million are advanced enough to fill three binders full of technical and design particulars — now awaiting approval in the office of the scheme's principal sponsor, Premier Gordon Campbell.

These and other details were confirmed in a Jan. 18 press briefing by British Columbia's Asia-Pacific and Olympics minister Colin Hansen. Mr. Hansen and project architect Clive Grout stressed that plans have not been finalized, and that a huge clamshell new roof over the sunken skating rink, plus a new Asia-Pacific Centre pavilion to be inserted at the raised walkway and landscaped mound level along Hornby Street would be subject to public review.

Later in the same briefing, however, Mr. Hansen stated that if portions can be put in place before the 2010 Olympics, so much the better. The scale and complexity of the Robson Square proposals means that construction plans must be finalized in a matter of weeks, if the proposed roof or pavilion is to be in place by that deadline.

The most controversial element of the plan is a huge wooden arch springing from near the entrance of the Vancouver Art Gallery, up over Robson Street high enough to permit the passage of city buses underneath, then down to terra firma again near Mr. Erickson's famous "stramps" — a combined staircase and ramp — at the Law Courts and (now-dormant) fountain side. The rationale Mr. Hansen has offered for this enormous arch is to keep the rain off the skating rink below, where General Electric (corporate parent of 2010 broadcaster NBC) is providing $1.7-million for an enlarged ice surface and new refrigeration plant.

In addition to the enormous visual impact the new arch would have on the Francis Rattenbury-designed Edwardian courthouse, Arthur Erickson's provincial buildings at Robson Square, and landscape architect Cornelia Oberlander's plantings in-between the two iconic buildings, the current proposal may have a fatal urban design flaw. In order to accommodate vehicular and pedestrian traffic along Robson Street, this is an arch without walls — just a glazed roof, open on the sides.

The worry is that the arch's inescapable need for openings may mean more rain on the rink below, not less. As experienced by anyone who has encountered a mild wind accelerated to gale force at the base of office towers, the shape of buildings can amplify winds. Engineers call this the "Venturi Effect," and an open-sided arch may well push rain even further into the skating zone than under the current ranks of brown plastic skylights. At the Jan. 18 briefing, project architect Clive Grout stated that wind studies for his design have not yet been done.

In an open letter released several days earlier, Arthur Erickson describes his involvement in the radical Robson Square redesign proposals as being "minimal." But Mr. Erickson also points to a possible alternative, one that would accommodate our provincial government's understandable desire for a rain-proof public gathering place during the 2010 Winter Games.

Inspired by Mr. Erickson's original plans of 30 years ago, why not leave the area between VAG and Law Courts as they are (the sunken plaza is widely recognized as his original design's weakest component and surely needs a re-do, but nothing as clumsy as this clamshell roof), then shift new interventions to the other side, along Georgia Street? Since this Georgia-flanking zone — a true urban square in the European sense, not the multi-levelled hybrid along Robson — is scheduled for re-construction anyway, construction could be sped up for completion for the 2010 Winter Games.

If shelter from the rain is thought worth the investment, an elegant temporary or permanent high roof could be erected along the street (but please, not up against VAG's neo-classical walls.) After all, the Vancouver Organizing Committee likes this high profile central space enough to locate their Olympic countdown clock there, and a renewed square would be a wonderful complement to the 2010 live sites for entertainment and events proposed for David Lam Park and the former bus station location a few blocks down Georgia.

The area between VAG and Georgia is the only portion of Mr. Erickson's three-block-long scheme that was never completed. His concept here was for a largely hard-surfaced central plaza — adapting itself readily to multiple uses, ranging from concerts to demos to ethnic fairs — greened at the edges along Howe and Hornby Streets with double alleys of mature trees and brimming planters. One of the scheme's more ingenious ideas was an in-ground fountain at centre, permitting the waterworks to be turned off and on depending on each day's planned activities. What's best, completing Arthur Erickson's conception would cost substantially less than the $87-million for radical surgery and extraneous re-padding currently awaiting cabinet approval.

As has happened many times before, our most famous architect may have had it right the first time. Bringing new urban life to Georgia — not destroying what has long succeeded along Robson — may be the best living memorial we can give Arthur Erickson.

[officedweller]

URBAN PLANNING
Overarching aspirations

TREVOR BODDY

From Friday's Globe and Mail
January 25, 2008 at 12:00 AM EST

...... shift new interventions to the other side, along Georgia Street? Since this Georgia-flanking zone — a true urban square in the European sense, not the multi-levelled hybrid along Robson — is scheduled for re-construction anyway, construction could be sped up for completion for the 2010 Winter Games.
...
The area between VAG and Georgia is the only portion of Mr. Erickson's three-block-long scheme that was never completed. His concept here was for a largely hard-surfaced central plaza — adapting itself readily to multiple uses, ranging from concerts to demos to ethnic fairs — greened at the edges along Howe and Hornby Streets with double alleys of mature trees and brimming planters. One of the scheme's more ingenious ideas was an in-ground fountain at centre, permitting the waterworks to be turned off and on depending on each day's planned activities. What's best, completing Arthur Erickson's conception would cost substantially less than the $87-million for radical surgery and extraneous re-padding currently awaiting cabinet approval.

The Georgia St. frontage works fine as is. It is the City's official "lawn".

So Boddy proposes demolishing the BC Centennial Fountain (erected in 1958 for the Colony of BC's 100th anniversary) in this BC's sesquicentennial (150th) anniversary year - how appropriate!?!?

[mr.x]

I thought that article was overly negative and pessimistic, i disagree with it. where did he come up with the $87 million figure?

and why on earth would he want to rip up the Art Gallery lawn?

[deasine]

I never really liked newspapers like Globe and Mail & 24 hours... I find them really bias.

[mr.x]

I never really liked newspapers like Globe and Mail & 24 hours... I find them really bias.

Yea, the Globe's Trevor Boddy seems to be quite negative and pessimistic about Vancouver....in nearly every one of his articles.

[duener]

Is the plan here to just erect a covered structure and keep the sunken plaza?

If so, that's a shame. It would great if they could:

a. have the skating rink/public space be at ground level

b. eliminate the vehicle traffic cutting across the square

c. have some small cafes on the outside that provide lots of outdoor seating

Then we'd have a real heart-of-city square!

[MistyMountainHop]

^ That would be great, but closing Robson isn't going to happen.

[djh]

Yea, the Globe's Trevor Boddy seems to be quite negative and pessimistic about Vancouver....in nearly every one of his articles.

I don't think he's negative or pessimistic, I think he is critical. That's a different thing. I think if one is being criticiized it's easy to get defensive and see the criticism as negative and pessimistic. That reaction pretty much sums up Vancouver - a person says something about the city and proud Vancouveries' hackles get raised. Instead, it would be better to step back and hear the criticism for what could be constructive and helpful. If nobody was to criticize Vancouver's development we would have some real messes being approved.

I just re-read the whole article below and it's not at all negative or pessimistic. Your point about his writing is not very apparent, even though you said he's so in "nearly" every article. Plus he writes for the Vancouver Sun too, is he negative and pessimistic when he writes there?

[crazyjoeda]

^ That would be great, but closing Robson isn't going to happen.

It would be easy (and possibly cheaper) to have Robson dip under the square for one block. The Law Courts end of Erickson's design should be saved but every thing between their and the museum should be redesigned into a level public square over one block of robson street. That sunken skating rink is stupid, it is way to small.

This wood structure is dumb and will look ugly!!! Vancouver lacks a public/festival square. London has Trafalger Square, Toronto has Yonge-Dundas Square and Nathan Phillips Square, San Francisco has Union Square and etc. Our Robson square does not function as a public square; the square is not open, inviting or easily accessible.

Imagine, Robson Square, and open place for free concerts, public rallies, celebrations and a place to watching the 2010 Olympics.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1136/robsquyu9.jpg

[Yume-sama]

It would be easy (and possibly cheaper) to have Robson dip under the square for one block. The Law Courts end of Erickson's design should be saved but every thing between their and the museum should be redesigned into a level public square over one block of robson street. That sunken skating rink is stupid, it is way to small.

This wood structure is dumb and will look ugly!!! Vancouver lacks a public/festival square. London has Trafalger Square, Toronto has Yonge-Dundas Square and Nathan Phillips Square, San Francisco has Union Square and etc. Our Robson square does not function as a public square; the square is not open, inviting or easily accessible.

Imagine, Robson Square, and open place for free concerts, public rallies, celebrations and a place to watching the 2010 Olympics.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1136/robsquyu9.jpg

Or more likely, frequent protests by groups such as the APC, and other such groups that will cause normal people to avoid it... :shrug:

[mr.x]

Something like this in St. Petersburgh for Robson Square would be amazing:
http://www.dezeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/squareriver6h.jpg

http://www.dezeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/river6h-1.jpg

http://www.dezeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/spb-nightshot.jpg

http://www.dezeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/view-04-internal-27-copy.jpg

[deasine]

For a minute i thought that roof was low clouds... But looks very new and fresh.

We need better renderings - one black and white bird's eye view isn't enough.

[Rusty Gull]

Boddy no longer writes for the Vancouver Sun. The Globe probably won't let him (since the Sun and Globe are competitors).

I like his journalism. Biting, yes... but informative and interesting and opinionated, also yes. Plus, he's not afraid to call our planners out on some of the supposed triumphs and sacred cows of this city, such as "Vancouverism", view cones, various real estate developments, etc.

Long live "the Bod".

[duener]

It would be easy (and possibly cheaper) to have Robson dip under the square for one block. The Law Courts end of Erickson's design should be saved but every thing between their and the museum should be redesigned into a level public square over one block of robson street. That sunken skating rink is stupid, it is way to small.

This wood structure is dumb and will look ugly!!! Vancouver lacks a public/festival square. London has Trafalger Square, Toronto has Yonge-Dundas Square and Nathan Phillips Square, San Francisco has Union Square and etc. Our Robson square does not function as a public square; the square is not open, inviting or easily accessible.

Imagine, Robson Square, and open place for free concerts, public rallies, celebrations and a place to watching the 2010 Olympics.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1136/robsquyu9.jpg


I was thinking the same thing.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that when the square was originally built, the Robson Street section was meant to be a mini transit mall, and they later opened it to cars. It's not like it's a main traffic artery so I don't see why it couldn't be closed off to cars. They can divert the traffic around it.

Trafalgar Square in London had a busy road cutting off the square from the National Gallery until recently... now it's more functional and more popular. The red part in the below photo was transformed from a busy road to a pedestrianised terrace.

http://www.transalt.org/press/magazine/033Summer/images/16london.jpg
Transalt.org
http://www.transalt.org/press/magazine/033Summer/images/16london.jpg

[officedweller]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that when the square was originally built, the Robson Street section was meant to be a mini transit mall, and they later opened it to cars. It's not like it's a main traffic artery so I don't see why it couldn't be closed off to cars. They can divert the traffic around it.

That's correct.
It was discussed 10 years ago in a City Report when they prohibited right turns at Hornby & Robson. The narrowing of Robson also created problems with right-turning cars holding up traffic on eastbound Robson (hence the advance right turn arrow).

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/970708/tt4.htm

BACKGROUND

In 1977, the Robson Square Court House was constructed in the 800 block
Robson between Howe and Hornby Streets. A four-lane "bridge" structure
with full sidewalks was constructed over Robson Square. However, the
surface roadway was narrowed to one traffic lane in each direction and
was initially restricted to buses and emergency vehicles only. In 1982,
in response to West End requests to improve retail continuity, the 800
block Robson was opened to traffic. The Mall-type street design
remained, with one lane of general purpose traffic in each direction.

On March 25, 1997, the Standing Committee on Transportation and Traffic
requested a report on ways to reduce transit delays on the 800 block
Robson.

[jlousa]

If you dip the road there you also have to get rid of all the trolley buses as you couldn't dip it low enough for it to work, I think the solution to make lemonade with the lemon we have.

[crazyjoeda]

you couldn't dip it low enough for it to work
Why?

I don't see a reason why the tunnel couldn't go deep enough to allow for trolley cables to go through it.