Robson Square Renovations

[WarrenC12]

We know why it started, but can you answer my question, what is the end game? When can it be removed?

As noted above I am welcome to a permanent memorial, but what is there now can’t stay forever.

Feel free to ask the people there.

[WBC]

We know why it started, but can you answer my question, what is the end game? When can it be removed?

As noted above I am welcome to a permanent memorial, but what is there now can’t stay forever.

The end game is the same as any other situation in Vancouver - the site gets redeveloped into a 65+ story condo tower.

[dreambrother808]

I cannot believe the occupation of the VAG stairs continues and is even expanding to the public square! What waste of what could be a nice public space, but everybody's afraid to do anything about it. It looks like a homeless camp in making with all the random tents.

Stay mad and miserable. :cheers:

[Tysonbrown]

[QUOTE=Metro-One;9628048]We know why it started, but can you answer my question, what is the end game? When can it be removed?

[Tysonbrown]

[QUOTE=Metro-One;9628048]We know why it started, but can you answer my question, what is the end game? When can it be removed?

Because ignorance is a dangerous thing and knowledge is bliss.

[Vin]

I cannot believe the occupation of the VAG stairs continues and is even expanding to the public square! What waste of what could be a nice public space, but everybody's afraid to do anything about it. It looks like a homeless camp in making with all the random tents.

Occupation is exactly right. I would even expand it further to call it an invasion of public space.

As usual, local authorities are inept and unable to dislodge this illegal occupation.

I believe this started with the discovery of unmarked gravesites from residential schools.

That side of the VAG is not an entrance. It has been protest/demonstration central for decades.

Why are people getting triggered over this? It's not blocking anybody from anything.

I suggest VAG start to re-open another beautiful entrance.

[Vin]

The end game is the same as any other situation in Vancouver - the site gets redeveloped into a 65+ story condo tower.

I suppose by your logic we will be getting a 65+ storey condo tower at the Sunset Beach waterfront since authorities are also unable to remove something else there: the beloved barge.

[TwoFace]

Nothing is going to happen until they can convince a native leader to call an end to it.

[Metro-One]

The end game is the same as any other situation in Vancouver - the site gets redeveloped into a 65+ story condo tower.

Nah, it would be cut down to an awkward 32 floors and would be a boring cube that retains one facade from the Courthouse.

[Metro-One]

Nothing is going to happen until they can convince a native leader to call an end to it.

So we may as well write off this public plaza forever, because again there is no obtainable end game in mind (like many contemporary movements).

A nice compromise would be to instal permanent sculptures of shoes on one third of the steps with some plaques and maybe a flag pole for any flags they wish to fly, and reopen the rest of the plaza for public use.

If not we just need to wait for that earthquake to turn the entire area in rubble, after which we will get the aforementioned squat overpriced condo tower.

[TwoFace]

A nice compromise would be to instal permanent sculptures of shoes on one third of the steps with some plaques

They are probably trying to decide on something permanent prior to making any public announcement.

[Metro-One]

They are probably trying to decide on something permanent prior to making any public announcement.

I hope that’s the case.

[WBC]

Nah, it would be cut down to an awkward 32 floors and would be a boring cube that retains one facade from the Courthouse.

You are correct. I forgot this was Vancouvrer and not Burnaby

[WBC]

I suppose by your logic we will be getting a 65+ storey condo tower at the Sunset Beach waterfront since authorities are also unable to remove something else there: the beloved barge.

Absolutely. I can see it already - the last chance to own at the former side of the "beloved barge". The first 50 buyers get a key chain made of barge itself for only $5000 extra.

[Snow_Wolf]

I believe this started with the discovery of unmarked gravesites from residential schools.

That side of the VAG is not an entrance. It has been protest/demonstration central for decades.

Why are people getting triggered over this? It's not blocking anybody from anything.

It is though. It was nice last summer when it was a memorial but now it's fenced off now? Having a big part of the square fenced off with tents doesn't make the area any nicer.

Stay mad and miserable. :cheers:

What a productive comment. Thank you for adding to the discussion

[dreambrother808]

What a productive comment. Thank you for adding to the discussion

Unlike some people here I have quite the distaste for those who think this is an issue deserving of their scorn.

It’s a repulsive, inconsiderate response and I would be rather ashamed of myself if I were in their shoes.

But we all know they will never entertain such introspection.

Should this be converted into a permanent, more long-lasting, less haphazard monument? Yes. But what we currently find in its place isn’t something I’m going to complain about because the message is far more important than soulless whinging about propriety.

[WarrenC12]

It is though. It was nice last summer when it was a memorial but now it's fenced off now? Having a big part of the square fenced off with tents doesn't make the area any nicer.

Big part of the square? Not really.

What would you do? Have the VPD clear them out? :rolleyes:

[dreambrother808]

Big part of the square? Not really.

What would you do? Have the VPD clear them out? :rolleyes:

“How dare these troublesome indigenous people infringe on OUR public space? How dare they protest their own genocide and the obliteration of their culture in a way that is not aesthetically pleasing to ME?”

[GenWhy?]

“How dare these troublesome indigenous people infringe on OUR public space? How dare they protest their own genocide and the obliteration of their culture in a way that is not aesthetically pleasing to ME?”

The ironing is delicious.

[dreambrother808]

The ironing is delicious.

Doesn’t everyone love a delicious ironing?

[Vin]

Big part of the square? Not really.

What would you do? Have the VPD clear them out? :rolleyes:

Have the City or Province and Native Bands even tried to talk to each other about the illegal occupancy of the gallery public space?

I don't think so. Just like how people refuse to even talk about "sensitive" issues here, but rather prefer to ignore them altogether or play down the issues. That is seriously lame.

How West Coasters deal with issues: just ignore them and hope they will go away. Only do something drastic if the said issues really fester out of control, such as the illegal tent city occupying a large public park from last year where lives were lost.

If I were the City or the Province, I would offer to build the tribes a memorial from a selected site in the city, or in Victoria, but must be given word that the Art gallery must be vacated and cleaned up. That's the responsible thing to do, especially after so many prospered from the crimes of the past to build this city, province and country.

[Changing City]

Have the City or Province and Native Bands even tried to talk to each other about the illegal occupancy of the gallery public space?

You mean how the gallery (Courthouse) was built on unceded native land? No, that hasn't happened yet. It would if the Province ever wanted to sell the land though, or abandon the use of the building.

If you mean the current protest; where do you think the City barriers came from to protect the steps? Of course they're talking. Just not to you. (And nobody calls them 'tribes' in Canada).

[WarrenC12]

If I were the City or the Province, blah blah blah blah

Have you written to your government representatives? Writing the same old BS on here isn't changing anything.

[wabooba]

This encampment isn't what I would want smack downtown the way it is, but I think people are going to have to get used to it.
To order it moved out or abolished would be totally "Politically Incorrect" at this juncture, and would be met with howls of protest and outrage.
What happened in the residential schools was shocking, but is there a way to both placate (justifiably) outraged First Nations schoolchildren AND return Robson Square to the public realm as originally intended?
Unless another place is designated as a memorial site to the hundreds of murdered First Nations people, this, especially at the heart of downtown, seems destined to be around for a long while to come.
If there is a way to somehow dignify the First Nations people's response, then go for it, but getting around this encampment issue is going to be a toughie at best. :uhh:

[FarmerHaight]

This encampment isn't what I would want smack downtown the way it is, but I think people are going to have to get used to it.
To order it moved out or abolished would be totally "Politically Incorrect" at this juncture, and would be met with howls of protest and outrage.
What happened in the residential schools was shocking, but is there a way to both placate (justifiably) outraged First Nations schoolchildren AND return Robson Square to the public realm as originally intended?
Unless another place is designated as a memorial site to the hundreds of murdered First Nations people, this, especially at the heart of downtown, seems destined to be around for a long while to come.
If there is a way to somehow dignify the First Nations people's response, then go for it, but getting around this encampment issue is going to be a toughie at best. :uhh:

These issues are complicated for a number of reasons, perhaps the largest of which is there is no consensus among indigenous people about how the government should respond to the mass graves. Keep in mind that many bands have both elected officials and hereditary chiefs who differ on many issues (see the logging protests). Also, some indigenous people would like all such graves dug up and relocated, while some would like to leave the bodies where they lay.

Frankly, I am not sure the government could ever pay indigenous people enough for the land Europeans stole. Just using a valuation tool such as a discounted cash flow for all of the natural resources that have been extracted and the businesses that have run on stolen land would return such an astronomical number since you could argue that all of Canada's GDP would not be possible if not for stolen land. And that's just a financial argument that totally ignores the sentimental value of traditional hunting and fishing grounds.

I, for one, will never claim that an indigenous protest has occupied a public space for too long considering history.

[WBC]

These issues are complicated for a number of reasons, perhaps the largest of which is there is no consensus among indigenous people about how the government should respond to the mass graves. Keep in mind that many bands have both elected officials and hereditary chiefs who differ on many issues (see the logging protests). Also, some indigenous people would like all such graves dug up and relocated, while some would like to leave the bodies where they lay.

Frankly, I am not sure the government could ever pay indigenous people enough for the land Europeans stole. Just using a valuation tool such as a discounted cash flow for all of the natural resources that have been extracted and the businesses that have run on stolen land would return such an astronomical number since you could argue that all of Canada's GDP would not be possible if not for stolen land. And that's just a financial argument that totally ignores the sentimental value of traditional hunting and fishing grounds.

I, for one, will never claim that an indigenous protest has occupied a public space for too long considering history.

I like how the narrative has changed into the Europeans stealing lands. Same thing is now peddled in Canadian schools. For the record, it was the British, under the British Crown doing the conquering, murdering and stealing in this part of Canada at least. You know the same British that back then treated the Irish, the Italians, the Ukrainians and the rest of the so called "Europeans" as utter garbage and cannon fodder. But now that the genocide has been done and enough time has passed this was somehow done by "Europeans". This would be like blaming "Asians" for Japanese atrocities during World War 2. Or blaming "Europeans" for similar German atrocities.

As for the Robson Square, it has been a protest place as long as I lived here. It reminds of SFU's Convocation Hall which also used to feature all kinds of protests all the time while I was a student there. On surface, it looks like a really nice place to hang out but very few people really do because there is really not much to do there except protest.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The underground rink and the stairs by the waterfall are usually busy, and the new concourse gets used by food trucks... that's about it.

For the record, the French were only slightly kinder to the FN than the Brits were.

[dreambrother808]

The rest of us, non-Brits, came here after to prosper from the plunder, primarily Europeans earlier on but now all of us, as Canadians.

The racist repression of Indigenous rights and lack of concern for their well-being came to be something that was embedded in Canadian psyche and society. While architected by the Brits and the French, it was then unabashedly shared by the populace at large.

We may have evolved degrees away from that view but it is still rooted in many Canadians’ minds.

[whatnext]

I believe this started with the discovery of unmarked gravesites from residential schools.

That side of the VAG is not an entrance. It has been protest/demonstration central for decades.

Why are people getting triggered over this? It's not blocking anybody from anything.

But I thought the CoV was virtuously discouraging the use of cars? Now they're providing dedicated parking on public space for special interests? Sounds like a double standard.

And it not like the city doesn't control the Pacific Centre parkade. Or is that just too far for these folks to walk?

[WarrenC12]

But I thought the CoV was virtuously discouraging the use of cars? Now they're providing dedicated parking on public space for special interests? Sounds like a double standard.

And it not like the city doesn't control the Pacific Centre parkade. Or is that just too far for these folks to walk?

Cars? What?

Why don't you ask these people and get back to us?

[WestEnd604]

I wonder if "Urban, Urban Design & Heritage Issues"
would be a better forum for this discussion. We've gotten far off the topic at hand here folks.

[Klazu]

I was going to ask if that was a homeless camp.

There is nothing preventing combining both and making this piece of land basically untouchable to the officials.

Why are people getting triggered over this? It's not blocking anybody from anything.

I think there is a pretty good precedent of it keeping expanding. At this rate Hornby Street will be closed by end of the summer.

Because ignorance is a dangerous thing and knowledge is bliss.

I also want us to raise awareness on how bad it is to leave garbage behind and just how customizable these rent-it fences can be, but this is not the way or the place to promote such knowledge!! :(

Nothing is going to happen until they can convince a native leader to call an end to it.

But what do the hereditary chiefs think?

If not we just need to wait for that earthquake to turn the entire area in rubble, after which we will get the aforementioned squat overpriced condo tower.

At this point, only a Magnitude 9.0 can save Vancouver from itself.

[dreambrother808]

At this point, only a Magnitude 9.0 can save Vancouver from itself.

The melodrama :rolleyes:

Move to Calgary, take some blood pressure medication, fix whatever in your life you’re projecting elsewhere.

[wabooba]

At this point, only a Magnitude 9.0 can save Vancouver from itself.

:uhh: Don't laugh, please. It may be closer than you think. This article from August 2020 starts at a 7.1 quake level but goes on up. It's such a ripe time that it's scary.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pacific-northwest-prepares-for-massive-earthquake
But back to the main topic. Excuse me, please.

[mcminsen]

Hornby Street side still fenced off.





June 6 '22, my pics
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/m9U73s.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pom9U73sj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/gKVROv.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pngKVROvj)

[s211]

Would this property not be suitable for decolonization, given its history as a locus for enforcing Western-biased legal systems? If the Victoria museum is being decolonized, then surely it would be hypocrisy to leave this building standing.

[WarrenC12]

Would this property not be suitable for decolonization, given its history as a locus for enforcing Western-biased legal systems? If the Victoria museum is being decolonized, then surely it would be hypocrisy to leave this building standing.

The museum decolonization was about the exhibits inside, not the structure. :rolleyes:

[officedweller]

Would this property not be suitable for decolonization, given its history as a locus for enforcing Western-biased legal systems? If the Victoria museum is being decolonized, then surely it would be hypocrisy to leave this building standing.

Great excuse to overcome any heritage designation! :haha:

... and the Vancouver Public Library offends because of the horrors and torture that occurred in the Roman Coliseum
(so it'll be reclad as a toilet bowl).

[Vin]

You mean how the gallery (Courthouse) was built on unceded native land? No, that hasn't happened yet. It would if the Province ever wanted to sell the land though, or abandon the use of the building.

If you mean the current protest; where do you think the City barriers came from to protect the steps? Of course they're talking. Just not to you. (And nobody calls them 'tribes' in Canada).

Your home was built on unceded native land too, meaning Aboriginal people have the right to take it over as they see fit?

I do not believe in any illegal occupation of spaces. We as modern citizens and residents should abide by the laws and rules of the day. Full stop. Take everything else to court. Otherwise, run for legislation/parliament and change the current laws to suit your own agenda.

Just like the trucker's occupation of Ottawa, no one should prolong the occupation of public grounds in the name of protest for whatever reason, including those at the Art Gallery square.

[Vin]

This encampment isn't what I would want smack downtown the way it is, but I think people are going to have to get used to it.
To order it moved out or abolished would be totally "Politically Incorrect" at this juncture, and would be met with howls of protest and outrage.
What happened in the residential schools was shocking, but is there a way to both placate (justifiably) outraged First Nations schoolchildren AND return Robson Square to the public realm as originally intended?
Unless another place is designated as a memorial site to the hundreds of murdered First Nations people, this, especially at the heart of downtown, seems destined to be around for a long while to come.
If there is a way to somehow dignify the First Nations people's response, then go for it, but getting around this encampment issue is going to be a toughie at best. :uhh:

Only in Vancouver, my friend, only in Vancouver. Even the barge gets to be parked forever at Sunset beach with the City unable to remove it.

What happens here are just leaders, including hereditary chiefs, all caving in to the demands, no matter how absurd, of a few a-holes hell-bent to disrupt orderliness. Sadly, the real voices of demands for justice of slain children in residential schools, and their families will be drowned out by this. One very visible sign at the art gallery I could see is for the "return of stolen land". I do not see that to be related to the residential schools at all. The protest merely opened up more cans of worms.

[Changing City]

Your home was built on unceded native land too, meaning Aboriginal people have the right to take it over as they see fit?

I do not believe in any illegal occupation of spaces. We as modern citizens and residents should abide by the laws and rules of the day. Full stop. Take everything else to court. Otherwise, run for legislation/parliament and change the current laws to suit your own agenda.

Just like the trucker's occupation of Ottawa, no one should prolong the occupation of public grounds in the name of protest for whatever reason, including those at the Art Gallery square.

The courts treat public, or quasi-public agencies differently in terms of acknowledging Native ownership. That's why CPs land is now an Indian reserve, and native interests are co-developing the former Jericho barracks and RCMP headquarters. If the Provincially owned Courthouse / Gallery were considered for sale, there would no doubt be a claim. That's also why the sale of the Sinclair Centre didn't proceed some years ago.

[SpongeG]

the stairs/seating they just put in along the plaza are all stained and look old and grotty. how is that possible lol. They look really bad. But they were getting a lot of use, and I can't believe they allow pot dealers to sell pot out of tent there, that must piss off all the legitimate pot shops downtown, who pay taxes and rents etc. and these tent people I assume just sent up a tent and sell? do they do it without permits etc?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

the stairs/seating they just put in along the plaza are all stained and look old and grotty. how is that possible lol. They look really bad. But they were getting a lot of use, and I can't believe they allow pot dealers to sell pot out of tent there, that must piss off all the legitimate pot shops downtown, who pay taxes and rents etc. and these tent people I assume just sent up a tent and sell? do they do it without permits etc?

you must be new to the city!

we only enforce rules on law abiding citizens. when you're a criminal vagrant, you can do what you want! its a utopia you know!!! no need for permits unless you plan to pay taxes, listen to the rules, and do your part for society!:haha::haha::haha::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

they have no permits, nor is it illegal. city just really doesn't give a crap about vagrants. the CoV recently forced a business in chinatown to remove their gates from the windows due to the fact it isnt correct to the building. these were put up to protect the windows that had been smashed 5x. the city has done nothing about the vagrant problem in this city.

3 weeks ago i went to that new park downtown, there was a group of vagrants on the overhead walkway camped out, smoking weed, and leaving garbage around. when i called 311, i was told the city wants them there to "keep an eye on them" and that i need to have compassion. :koko:

that is the CoV in a nutshell.

[urbanflight]

Would this property not be suitable for decolonization, given its history as a locus for enforcing Western-biased legal systems? If the Victoria museum is being decolonized, then surely it would be hypocrisy to leave this building standing.

The way to decompose a society and civilization from within.

[TwoFace]

The excitement is at fever pitch as the new awning is up :)

[Vin]

The courts treat public, or quasi-public agencies differently in terms of acknowledging Native ownership. That's why CPs land is now an Indian reserve, and native interests are co-developing the former Jericho barracks and RCMP headquarters. If the Provincially owned Courthouse / Gallery were considered for sale, there would no doubt be a claim. That's also why the sale of the Sinclair Centre didn't proceed some years ago.

And I, a tax payer, have the right not to agree to any of the above instead of accepting everything passively, right?

I bet you would be up in arms defending your home if the courts decide to go for your home to "give back" to Native people.

[Vin]

you must be new to the city!

we only enforce rules on law abiding citizens. when you're a criminal vagrant, you can do what you want! its a utopia you know!!! no need for permits unless you plan to pay taxes, listen to the rules, and do your part for society!:haha::haha::haha::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

they have no permits, nor is it illegal. city just really doesn't give a crap about vagrants. the CoV recently forced a business in chinatown to remove their gates from the windows due to the fact it isnt correct to the building. these were put up to protect the windows that had been smashed 5x. the city has done nothing about the vagrant problem in this city.

3 weeks ago i went to that new park downtown, there was a group of vagrants on the overhead walkway camped out, smoking weed, and leaving garbage around. when i called 311, i was told the city wants them there to "keep an eye on them" and that i need to have compassion. :koko:

that is the CoV in a nutshell.

Hence we need to change the culture and rot of the entire City of Vancouver from within. We do not want to be another San Francisco.

[WarrenC12]

And I, a tax payer, have the right not to agree to any of the above instead of accepting everything passively, right?

I bet you would be up in arms defending your home if the courts decide to go for your home to "give back" to Native people.

So become a political advocate instead of whining on SSP.

[Vin]

So become a political advocate instead of whining on SSP.

Why do you like whining about my comments then? :haha:

I do like it when you get triggered though. That shows someone is paying attention, and don't worry: I won't ask you to be an advocate in anything else.

[Spr0ckets]

And I, a tax payer, have the right not to agree to any of the above instead of accepting everything passively, right?

I bet you would be up in arms defending your home if the courts decide to go for your home to "give back" to Native people.

Yes, it would indeed be a great injustice if someone just took your "home" and gave it to someone else who just seemingly up and showed up out of nowhere........and decided to set up shop there....

.....like they owned the place or something, instead of just being the "guests" that they presumably were.
.

The utter injustice and atrocity of it all.

On a completely unrelated note,....

Did your head explode from irony when you wrote that comment or where the concentric circles of lack of self-awareness too dizzying to even register what was happening at all in the first place?

Curious minds would love to know.

[officedweller]

The excitement is at fever pitch as the new awning is up :)

For the entrance to the VAG on Hornby St.?
Glass or fabric?

Will have to take a look.

[wabooba]

For the entrance to the VAG on Hornby St.?
Glass or fabric?

Will have to take a look.
:)Would it be possible to take a picture of it to put here? My curiosity is up. Thanks

[TwoFace]

For the entrance to the VAG on Hornby St.?
Glass or fabric?

Will have to take a look.

Yes, Hornby. I assume it's a fabric treated with glass for longevity.

[officedweller]

Yes, Hornby. I assume it's a fabric treated with glass for longevity.

I happened to walk past today.
Pics by me:

https://i.imgur.com/XtEeCE4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TKlzIfF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TD4HIkg.jpg

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

I happened to walk past today.
Pics by me:

https://i.imgur.com/XtEeCE4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TKlzIfF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TD4HIkg.jpg

so replaced the old crappy one with a new crappy one.

[officedweller]

Yup - looks the same.
I suppose they didn't want to spend any money on a new design or approval process.

[Changing City]

And I, a tax payer, have the right not to agree to any of the above instead of accepting everything passively, right?

Well, you don't get a vote on the opinion of a federal court. You can sound off on the internet as much as you like though. (Even if you don't pay taxes).

I bet you would be up in arms defending your home if the courts decide to go for your home to "give back" to Native people.

Again, if you can't tell the difference between a home, and a Provincially owned former courthouse, may I suggest Hakim Optical?

I acknowledge that most of BC is unceded land, and that I have profited hugely from 'owning' a tiny portion of it, and have made arrangements to correct that in future. Most of my estate will go to a native educational organization. I imagine you have a similar arrangement?

[Klazu]

3 weeks ago i went to that new park downtown, there was a group of vagrants on the overhead walkway camped out, smoking weed, and leaving garbage around. when i called 311, i was told the city wants them there to "keep an eye on them" and that i need to have compassion. :koko:

Please tell me you are making this up and they didn't actually tell you that? What does it even mean to keep an eye on them?? I hope you reminded the imbecile on the phone that you pay their salary.

[s211]

Please tell me you are making this up and they didn't actually tell you that? What does it even mean to keep an eye on them?? I hope you reminded the imbecile on the phone that you pay their salary.

That's par for the course. I recall trying to obtain a residential on-street parking pass and instead getting a lecture about how I should get a bike instead.

That's not made up, unfortunately. :(

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Please tell me you are making this up and they didn't actually tell you that? What does it even mean to keep an eye on them?? I hope you reminded the imbecile on the phone that you pay their salary.

i wish it was made up. they were quite condescending and rude. this was before that incident with the weapons/threatening family thing. i didn't bother pushing them on anything. i could tell that no matter what, they were the bleeding heart type that thinks no vagrants can do wrong and they re all just victims of the system. though they did try hard to make me feel the the bad/guilty party for trying to keep the park from becoming the next ruined park downtown. i would say its a futile attempt.

That's par for the course. I recall trying to obtain a residential on-street parking pass and instead getting a lecture about how I should get a bike instead.

That's not made up, unfortunately. :(

that is sad to hear that happened... do you know if you ever made it into the queue for residential permit parking? i would encourage you not to give up on that. dont let terrible CoV (not all are) discourage you.

[WarrenC12]

Why do you like whining about my comments then? :haha:

I do like it when you get triggered though. That shows someone is paying attention, and don't worry: I won't ask you to be an advocate in anything else.

I'm not triggered, I'm just here to dunk on you when I feel like I need an easy win.

[Vin]

Yup - looks the same.
I suppose they didn't want to spend any money on a new design or approval process.

Another example of things not improving for this City. This is a modern eyesore smack in the middle of architecture from a more gracious time.

I'm not triggered, I'm just here to dunk on you when I feel like I need an easy win.

Sorry to hear you need that to lift the ego being on the losing end of the stick for far too long.

i wish it was made up. they were quite condescending and rude. this was before that incident with the weapons/threatening family thing. i didn't bother pushing them on anything. i could tell that no matter what, they were the bleeding heart type that thinks no vagrants can do wrong and they re all just victims of the system. though they did try hard to make me feel the the bad/guilty party for trying to keep the park from becoming the next ruined park downtown. i would say its a futile attempt.

that is sad to hear that happened... do you know if you ever made it into the queue for residential permit parking? i would encourage you not to give up on that. dont let terrible CoV (not all are) discourage you.

That's ridiculous! They City is protecting those that constantly break the law, forgetting the fact that those they irk are the ones paying their fat salaries: not the law-breaking riff-raffs.

[FarmerHaight]

That's ridiculous! They City is protecting those that constantly break the law, forgetting the fact that those they irk are the ones paying their fat salaries: not the law-breaking riff-raffs.

You think someone answering phones for the city is making a "fat salary"?

[TwoFace]

They have the waterfalls turned on ... very impressive :)

** and now they are off ... just "testing" I guess

[Vin]

You think someone answering phones for the city is making a "fat salary"?

I bet it would be compared to the same job in the private sector.

[LeftCoaster]

Professionals make far FAR more in the private sector than the public. A lawyer at the city makes a fraction of what they make in house or in private practice, likewise for many other professionals like architects, accountants, comms professionals etc....

This is why the City, and any publicly funded and scrutinized entity, have such issues attracting and retaining talent.

Working for the city in a more entry level, union or commoditized role may be slightly more advantageous than private, but those are not the guys making fat salaries.

No one goes to work for any city to make big money.

[Vin]

Professionals make far FAR more in the private sector than the public. A lawyer at the city makes a fraction of what they make in house or in private practice, likewise for many other professionals like architects, accountants, comms professionals etc....

This is why the City, and any publicly funded and scrutinized entity, have such issues attracting and retaining talent.

Working for the city in a more entry level, union or commoditized role may be slightly more advantageous than private, but those are not the guys making fat salaries.

No one goes to work for any city to make big money.

We are talking about those who "answer phones", not professionals who require a good education and degrees. In the private sector, most of them get the amount of pay based on their contributions, and/or the amount of work they put in.

Please comment with something relevant.

[LeftCoaster]

You said fat salaries.... city workers answering phones don't make fat salaries.

Please comment with something intelligent.

[FarmerHaight]

We are talking about those who "answer phones", not professionals who require a good education and degrees. In the private sector, most of them get the amount of pay based on their contributions, and/or the amount of work they put in.

Please comment with something relevant.

If by "fat salaries" you mean city employees earn more compared to employees of call centres located in the Philippines which answer the phones for private companies, I guess you're right.

But paying someone $16 or $18 or even $20 per hour to do unskilled work isn't a big deal IMO, because if the CoV won't pay living wages to its employees why would we expect any private company to do so?

[Vin]

You said fat salaries.... city workers answering phones don't make fat salaries.

Please comment with something intelligent.

Nice try, but that's not what I said: that's what FarmerHaight implied.
Please read before coming up with something ridiculous, and read before commenting.

You think someone answering phones for the city is making a "fat salary"?

[FarmerHaight]

Deleted

[Vin]

It seems like you have issues remembering what you wrote.

When I said "the City", I was referring to the general staff of the City who do not take the disorderliness of the City seriously. As tax payers, we don't just pay people who answer phonecalls, but everyone else working for the City.

You were the one who implied otherwise.

[FarmerHaight]

Here's the full context of this discussion:

Please tell me you are making this up and they didn't actually tell you that? What does it even mean to keep an eye on them?? I hope you reminded the imbecile on the phone that you pay their salary.

In this post, Klazu is clearly saying that VancouverOfTheFuture should have reminded the person who answered the phone that VancouverOfTheFuture pays that city employee's salary.

i wish it was made up. they were quite condescending and rude. this was before that incident with the weapons/threatening family thing. i didn't bother pushing them on anything. i could tell that no matter what, they were the bleeding heart type that thinks no vagrants can do wrong and they re all just victims of the system. though they did try hard to make me feel the the bad/guilty party for trying to keep the park from becoming the next ruined park downtown. i would say its a futile attempt.

Here again, VancouverOfTheFuture is only speaking about the person who answered the phone. Not the mayor, nor any other member of council, nor anyone else with any decision-making power at City Hall.

That's ridiculous! They City is protecting those that constantly break the law, forgetting the fact that those they irk are the ones paying their fat salaries: not the law-breaking riff-raffs.

And finally, continuing this same vein of conversation, you declared that the city's employees are making fat salaries. So either:

You misunderstood the entire conversation, and thought the discussion was about Stewart or one of his cronies, or
You didn't read carefully, which is what you are accusing LeftCoaster of, or
You joined the rage train and decided to post some nonsense before thinking about it.

[LeftCoaster]

That's ridiculous! They City is protecting those that constantly break the law, forgetting the fact that those they irk are the ones paying their fat salaries: not the law-breaking riff-raffs.

It's literally exactly what you said.

Can you even read?

[Vin]

It's literally exactly what you said.

Can you even read?

Oh, gawd.

You said fat salaries.... city workers answering phones don't make fat salaries.

Please comment with something intelligent.

Never said that.

So you think the mayor, councillors, City planners and other managers make minuscule salaries? Come on....

[WarrenC12]

Work for the public sector! Same pay, more abuse!

[FarmerHaight]

When I said "the City", I was referring to the general staff of the City who do not take the disorderliness of the City seriously. As tax payers, we don't just pay people who answer phonecalls, but everyone else working for the City.

You were the one who implied otherwise.

I would encourage you to take a sample of this list (https://cityhallwatch.wordpress.com/2022/03/24/salary-sunshine-list-1798-over-100000/) and tell us exactly who is making significantly more than they would on the private job market.

Now, $300k seems like a lot of compensation but there are plenty of people in the private market who earn $600k plus without a lot of differentiating skill sets. I would hazard a guess that if Paul Mochrie had gone into finance or management consulting after his Queen's MBA instead of working for various health regions of the CoV, he would easily be clearing $600k 20 years after graduation.

[FarmerHaight]

Never said that.

Then you were out to lunch and completely off topic.

[LeftCoaster]

Never said that.

So you think the mayor, councillors, City planners and other managers make minuscule salaries? Come on....

You literally said exactly that.

And yes compared to the private sector planners do not make good money, like not good money at all.

A development coordinator with a couple years experience is making low to mid 6 figures in the private sector, some of those planners have decades of experience and make less.

Go up the chain and it's even more pronounced. The City manager is essentially the COO of Vancouver and makes a few hundred K to manage a multi-billion dollar entity, that same job in the private sector would be well into the 7 figures.

[seamusmcduff]

^ Some people have no concept of what people can make in management/high level roles, especially in development. Most wages in the public sector are decent, but they absolutely do not compare to what you can make in the private sector, except for maybe some select entry level positions. A janitor at the City may make more than one at Walmart, but are we really going to complain that someone is make 20 bucks an hour instead of min. wage?

And the idea from Klazu that you can be demanding of someone at the City because "you pay their salary" is so obtuse. If that was the case, then they should give you all $0.01 worth of attention, since that would be all you deserve based on the amount of your taxes that end up actually going to them. City workers should provide good service because it's their job, but don't act like you own them

[connect2source]

The recently completed concrete steps across from the 'every child matters' display now totally painted. I do suspect they'll soon close the square to through foot traffic as the passageway keeps getting narrower and the exhibit continues to expand.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/iz0K8s.jpg

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

The recently completed concrete steps across from the 'every child matters' display now totally painted. I do suspect they'll soon close the square to through foot traffic as the passageway keeps getting narrower and the exhibit continues to expand.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/iz0K8s.jpg

*sigh*

[Vin]

The recently completed concrete steps across from the 'every child matters' display now totally painted. I do suspect they'll soon close the square to through foot traffic as the passageway keeps getting narrower and the exhibit continues to expand.


Might as well do it now. ;)

We are seeing the creation of a new reserve land.

Seriously, the City is run by a bunch of clowns with no backbone.

[VantageHD]

Is that a terrible art piece, or vandalism?

[whatnext]

Just another reason why it was stupid of the city to close that stretch of Robison off in the first place.

[SpongeG]

who is in charge of that display and whats going on there? first nations or sympathizers?

[connect2source]

Exhibit continues to expand, now occupies most of the square with large letters painted over much of the pavers.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/923/YhgOe6.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1600x1200q90/923/BLB3Qk.jpg

[wabooba]

That the residential school genocides are a horrific national disgrace is well understood.
That the grievances of the First Nations must be heard and addressed is a given, and must be rectified.
But to turn the centre of Vancouver into an exhibit of this, as shown here, while pertinent, especially as the news of the massacres was revealed, while pertinent at the outset, has become overkill.
While we should not be allowed to forget Canada's own "Holocaust," the daily life of the city should be allowed to return to normal.
Surely there is another place or another way to commemorate it without that overkill.
If left to drag on and on and on, the demonstration will become perceived as tedious, and discredit itself.
There must be some way Robson Square can be returned to normalcy without turning our backs on what happened.
Any other places for the demonstration? Any other method of making a protest statement? Any other way of memorializing the horror? Surely there must be.
But the life of the heart of the city - Robson Square - and the immediate vicinity should IMO be returned to as copacetic a state as possible.
Finding another location for this, and perhaps another way to express the ongoing grievance, legitimate as it is, is in order.

[chowhou]

But to turn the centre of Vancouver into an exhibit of this, as shown here, while pertinent, especially as the news of the massacres was revealed, while pertinent at the outset, has become overkill.
While we should not be allowed to forget Canada's own "Holocaust," the daily life of the city should be allowed to return to normal.
Surely there is another place or another way to commemorate it without that overkill.
If left to drag on and on and on, the demonstration will become perceived as tedious, and discredit itself.
There must be some way Robson Square can be returned to normalcy without turning our backs on what happened.
Any other places for the demonstration? Any other method of making a protest statement? Any other way of memorializing the horror? Surely there must be.
But the life of the heart of the city - Robson Square - and the immediate vicinity should IMO be returned to as copacetic a state as possible.
Finding another location for this, and perhaps another way to express the ongoing grievance, legitimate as it is, is in order.

To be honest, if it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even know this existed.

[CivicBlues]

Someone posted a thread in r/Vancouver to the same effect a few days ago and got thoroughly downvoted and shut down by comments such as "Oh no a colonizer is inconvenienced boohoo"

But the same subreddit is entirely onboard with mass deportations of homeless in the DTES

Go figure.

[WarrenC12]

To be honest, if it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even know this existed.

Same.

[djh]

You would think the city would see the opportunity, take the initiative, and offer to build a permanent exhibit or statue or memorial in or around this location. Then the groups would feel they have proper permanent recogniton, their issues would be permanently seen and not at the whims of the fire department or a bureaucrat to throw it all away "for safety and security reasons", and the whole area would get tidied up.

A permanent exhibit sould definitely take up a decent amount of space to draw attention. It should not be some tiny plaque that gets ignored - but it also shouldn't be so big that the whole area always looks like a dumpster fire.
For example, a way of tastefully but provocatively displaying all of the dolls in a permanent display, that were left behind to represent the murdered and missing children (and text to explain why it's there and what it means) - I'd support that. But not like it is now, just a big DTES-style mess

[dreambrother808]

You would think the city would see the opportunity, take the initiative, and offer to build a permanent exhibit or statue or memorial in or around this location. Then the groups would feel they have proper permanent recogniton, their issues would be permanently seen and not at the whims of the fire department or a bureaucrat to throw it all away "for safety and security reasons", and the whole area would get tidied up.

A permanent exhibit sould definitely take up a decent amount of space to draw attention. It should not be some tiny plaque that gets ignored - but it also shouldn't be so big that the whole area always looks like a dumpster fire.
For example, a way of tastefully but provocatively displaying all of the dolls in a permanent display, that were left behind to represent the murdered and missing children (and text to explain why it's there and what it means) - I'd support that. But not like it is now, just a big DTES-style mess

I would imagine that this is in the planning behind the scenes but won't be announced until it's agreed on by all parties.

The display is intentionally disruptive, but only constitutes a minor inconvenience. People are still walking through, I have never seen any issues, etc.

[whatnext]

I would imagine that this is in the planning behind the scenes but won't be announced until it's agreed on by all parties.

The display is intentionally disruptive, but only constitutes a minor inconvenience. People are still walking through, I have never seen any issues, etc.

So any group with a grievance should just be able to permanently claim public space for their cause? When it just the shoes on the art gallery steps it made sense now, like so much in Vancouver, its just turned into an out of control shitshow

Is the tent selling pot illegally still there too? I'd be pissed if I owned a pot shop and went through all the hurdles just to see them flout the law like this.

[goodcitywhenfinished]

Better yet, turn the old art gallery into an Indigenous cultural centre, museum, and art gallery.

Build out a powerful and evocative exhibit on residential schools similar in weight to other "memorial museums" around the world. Have Indigenous Architecture firms lead the interior design and planning. The entire building can serve as a high quality and respectful memorial and cultural space much more powerful than these DIY memorials painted on the sidewalk.

Win-win.

[s211]

Better yet, turn the old art gallery into an Indigenous cultural centre, museum, and art gallery.

Build out a powerful and evocative exhibit on residential schools similar in weight to other "memorial museums" around the world. Have Indigenous Architecture firms lead the interior design and planning. The entire building can serve as a high quality and respectful memorial and cultural space much more powerful than these DIY memorials painted on the sidewalk.

Win-win.

Uh, right. Like how they want to demolish that great-looking half-timber building near Cambie and 33rd because it's "colonial"?

[officedweller]

The Vancouver Museum/Planetarium is in the shape of an aboriginal hat, that's a better building for an aboriginal museum.

[wabooba]

The Vancouver Museum/Planetarium is in the shape of an aboriginal hat, that's a better building for an aboriginal museum.
To me, that makes a whole lot of sense. I presume however that another new museum for the city of Vancouver and not strictly focussing on Aboriginal issues would be needed. It could start with an Aboriginal-style statement, but go on to demonstrate the arrivals of the explorers, the building of the CPR, and people and events in the city's history, leading up to now.

Would that be possible? And if yes, where could it be? When the VAG moves to its new building, would the present VAG and former courthouse be sufficient?
Or would that be impractical as UBC has a campus there, and/or large enough?
(though frankly, I'd love to see a music school there).

keep on trying, I guess. A totally new Vancouver Museum. How, where, when?

[Vin]

Better yet, turn the old art gallery into an Indigenous cultural centre, museum, and art gallery.

Build out a powerful and evocative exhibit on residential schools similar in weight to other "memorial museums" around the world. Have Indigenous Architecture firms lead the interior design and planning. The entire building can serve as a high quality and respectful memorial and cultural space much more powerful than these DIY memorials painted on the sidewalk.

Win-win.

I won't agree to funding this. This "de-colonization" BS is getting to epic proportion not just in Vancouver, but pretty much the entire province. Same thing happening in Victoria, where now visitors are all shocked at what the Royal British Columbia museum has become, so much so that the province lowered the entrance fee from $25 to a mere $5. Nothing much to see in there now.


Uh, right. Like how they want to demolish that great-looking half-timber building near Cambie and 33rd because it's "colonial"?

Exactly: I call that dumb people caving in to even dumber demands. Tax payers always end up being on the hook.

[Vin]

Exhibit continues to expand, now occupies most of the square with large letters painted over much of the pavers.


I think it is high time to charge people for vandalism and illegal occupation here, don't you think?