Robson Square Renovations

[officedweller]

Pics by me today:

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7157/imgp1532k.jpg (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/imgp1532k.jpg/)

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Looks like the membrane under Robson Street is being replaced too
(like the membrane above Pacific Centre and Vancouver Centre was replaced when Granville was revitalized last year):

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4305/imgp1531.jpg (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/imgp1531.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[eduardo88]

now if only they could keep robson closed to cars forever...

[whatnext]

Is there a reason why Robson Square has never been considered as an expansion site for the VAG? It's centrally located, it's windows-free (ideal for art), and it would provide ample space for exhibitions, etc.

..Blessed with growing public support and a hefty city-owned acquisition of important works, the VAG claims it can no longer justify staying in the cramped old Provincial Courthouse at the north end of Robson Square. It has rejected studies that show it could enlarge its site underground along the lines of the Louvre in Paris or reconfigure itself south into Robson Square..

...There isn't any doubt that the VAG needs to find a solution to its problems. Its collection, largely housed under the Georgia Plaza, is at constant risk of damage. There is limited public education programming, largely because it has no space. The gallery has missed opportunities to expand into other government-owned space on Robson Square...
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/battle+ofLarwill+Park+rages/3345763/story.html

Why it was rejected or how they missed the boat isn't spelled out. IMHO it sounds like they were always after a trophy site they didn't have to share but who knows.

[red-paladin]

It just occurred to me Robson Square might have been more used if there was more flat space. Jack Poole Plaza has a lot of flat space, and it always seems to have people. (Of course there is a view, etc.) But I just mean that the more stairs you have, the less place people can actually do something, and there are Mayan temples with less stairs than Robson Square.

[Rusty Gull]

Good catch, WhatNext.

I think it's quite apparent that this is a vanity project for the VAG. Just look at the CEO's resume. She did not come here from L.A. to oversee a functional, economically sound expansion into the Robson Square underground.

It's clear that she needs the feather on her cap of a new, iconic building before she can take one of the E.D. jobs at the big name galleries in New York.

[vanman2010]

It just occurred to me Robson Square might have been more used if there was more flat space. Jack Poole Plaza has a lot of flat space, and it always seems to have people. (Of course there is a view, etc.) But I just mean that the more stairs you have, the less place people can actually do something, and there are Mayan temples with less stairs than Robson Square.

Good point and I had wondered the same thing myself. People would rather be in the sun than in a pit, so the whole concept of the sunken public space never made sense to me. Flatten it out, put in trees for shade/shelter and seating for people-watching on Robson and I bet it'll attract people. And since it'll be more open, it might cut down on the scuzzy element. I've stood on the sidewalk across from the VAG steps many times and noticed that there was virtually no place to sit. Given how popular the VAG steps are I have to think that more seating in general along this busy thoroughfare would be a good idea. If you want people to congregate then give them a place to sit and something interesting to look at - and there's nothing more interesting than other people.

[vanman2010]

..Blessed with growing public support and a hefty city-owned acquisition of important works, the VAG claims it can no longer justify staying in the cramped old Provincial Courthouse at the north end of Robson Square. It has rejected studies that show it could enlarge its site underground along the lines of the Louvre in Paris or reconfigure itself south into Robson Square..

...There isn't any doubt that the VAG needs to find a solution to its problems. Its collection, largely housed under the Georgia Plaza, is at constant risk of damage. There is limited public education programming, largely because it has no space. The gallery has missed opportunities to expand into other government-owned space on Robson Square...
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/battle+ofLarwill+Park+rages/3345763/story.html

Why it was rejected or how they missed the boat isn't spelled out. IMHO it sounds like they were always after a trophy site they didn't have to share but who knows.

Given the current problems with leaking it's a good thing that the VAG didn't expand to other spaces within the complex. Water and artwork do not mix well.

[jsbertram]

Good point and I had wondered the same thing myself. People would rather be in the sun than in a pit, so the whole concept of the sunken public space never made sense to me. Flatten it out, put in trees for shade/shelter and seating for people-watching on Robson and I bet it'll attract people. And since it'll be more open, it might cut down on the scuzzy element. I've stood on the sidewalk across from the VAG steps many times and noticed that there was virtually no place to sit. Given how popular the VAG steps are I have to think that more seating in general along this busy thoroughfare would be a good idea. If you want people to congregate then give them a place to sit and something interesting to look at - and there's nothing more interesting than other people.

What is now the skating rink & UBC facilities was originally envisioned by Erickson to be a transit station for a subway line running under Robson Street. The stairs down from Robson / Howe / Hornby streets would allow pedestrians to access a lower-level plaza that lead to the subway station entrances (today's UBC doors) before taking escalators down to the subway platforms. This design was changed when the Robson Subway was deleted from the city planning, but the concept of a lower-level plaza under Robson remained, and is now the skating rink & stairs/ramps between the plaza level and street level.

If a subway station is ever built under Robson Square, this plaza and stairs up to street level would be quite busy with people using the subway station. It could even be the 'showcase station' of the subway line.

[Yume-sama]

Given the current problems with leaking it's a good thing that the VAG didn't expand to other spaces within the complex. Water and artwork do not mix well.

With a lot of todays "abstract" art, how could you ever tell if its damaged :P

[trofirhen]

What is now the skating rink & UBC facilities was originally envisioned by Erickson to be a transit station for a subway line running under Robson Street. The stairs down from Robson / Howe / Hornby streets would allow pedestrians to access a lower-level plaza that lead to the subway station entrances (today's UBC doors) before taking escalators down to the subway platforms. This design was changed when the Robson Subway was deleted from the city planning, but the concept of a lower-level plaza under Robson remained, and is now the skating rink & stairs/ramps between the plaza level and street level.

If a subway station is ever built under Robson Square, this plaza and stairs up to street level would be quite busy with people using the subway station. It could even be the 'showcase station' of the subway line.

Spot on, Mr Bertram. Couldn't imagine a better way of having it (although I think people with parallel ideas to ours are outnumberd)

Anyway .. yeah. An elegant solution. Although I hate to say it, I don't think there will ever be a subway under Robson Square, of if yes, not for a very long time

[GeeCee]

Yet again..

Province unsure if Robson Square ice rink will re-open

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Vancouver's latest winter tourist attraction was just built and now it's sitting idle. So, you shouldn't be too excited to strap on your skates at the Robson Square ice rink this year.

Former Minister of State for the Olympics and current Minister of Citizen Services Mary McNeil knows exactly what benefits the rink brought during the 2010 Games.

However, it may not be re-opened to the public this winter. "It was an exciting spirit I think we want to try and continue. We are looking at what we can do. As you know, it's in the midst of a huge remediation project and the building is old."

A maintenance and build contract with General Electric expired after the Paralympic Games. McNeil says the government is still looking at new funding partners.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/102221--province-unsure-if-robson-square-ice-rink-will-re-open

[SpongeG]

that area is a mess i walked through yesterday it gets worse every week - if its going to be in this state till spring 2011 winter won't be too fun down there reason enough not to open it - most of the access is closed off or extremely limited

[officedweller]

Soil is being put back in on the "mound".

[officedweller]

Pic by me today:
Soil on the mound - stairs at south end of sunken plaza about half completed.

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3408/imgp0542p.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/imgp0542p.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[officedweller]

Pic by me today. The black crane is for removing trees (temporarily).

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3034/imgp0617y.jpg (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/imgp0617y.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[officedweller]

Long reach on that concrete pump!
Pic by me today.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9766/imgp0667l.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/i/imgp0667l.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[wrenegade]

Should we ever expect the fountains to be turned on again? Or has that ship sailed?

[Smooth]

Should we ever expect the fountains to be turned on again? Or has that ship sailed?

I'm pretty sure some of the fountain was on a week ago.

[nova9]

I'm pretty sure some of the fountain was on a week ago.

are you sure it wasn't just a rain-created waterfall? haha. ;)

[Yume-sama]

Apparently the skating rink will open December 5th after the Santa Claus parade.

Here's hoping the weather doesn't turn it in to a wading pool :P

I wonder how they'll manage all the people... and construction.

[LotusLand]

Hey Yume,

Where did you hear about Robson Square opening up? I'm excited!!!

[Yume-sama]

VCB via @DowntownVan on Twitter.

www.twitter.com/DowntownVan

[trofirhen]

... sorry folks, but on the preceding pages I seemed to notice those ugly, hybrid, monstrous, tasteless PAGODAS .... still there ! ! :yuck:

[red-paladin]

... sorry folks, but on the preceding pages I seemed to notice those ugly, hybrid, monstrous, tasteless PAGODAS .... still there ! ! :yuck:

If you wire me some money to a Swiss bank account that the feds can't find out about, I'll torch them tomorrow night lol

[eduardo88]

If you wire me some money to a Swiss bank account that the feds can't find out about, I'll torch them tomorrow night lol

Sadly, those don't exist anymore.

[trofirhen]

If you wire me some money to a Swiss bank account that the feds can't find out about, I'll torch them tomorrow night lol
:previous:
Don't worry about the Swiss banks and traceability. We'll figure out another way. How much $$ do you want? PLEASE PLEASE DESTROY THEM !!! :tup: :haha:

[Conrad]

It's a total mess down there and it keeps getting worse – and it will look exactly same when they're finished. Why they're putting so much effort in restoring this failed '70s design is beyond me. They should have demolished and repurposed that whole area while it was still crumbling. It just seems like such a wasted opportunity. And those new domes look out of place, they don't fit with the rest of the design – literally and stylistically.

[djh]

It's a total mess down there and it keeps getting worse – and it will look exactly same when they're finished. Why they're putting so much effort in restoring this failed '70s design is beyond me. They should have demolished and repurposed that whole area while it was still crumbling. It just seems like such a wasted opportunity. And those new domes look out of place, they don't fit with the rest of the design – literally and stylistically.

Because Arthur Ericksson is so revered in Vancouver. You wouldn't want to trample on a dead man's legacy, would you?

[SpongeG]

trample away!

i can't believe they are opening the ice rink - its such a mess right now how will people get down there

theres barely enough room for the radiohead dancers to perform on saturday night now

[SpikePhanta]

Even though the ice isn't that great and the surface is small, I still like skating on the RS ice rink...
I would prefer to skate on it over going down to denman and just skate there.

[Waders]

The "rumour" was also reported in Metro Vancouver today.


Grab your skates — the ice rink at Robson Square is making a much-anticipated comeback, possibly by this weekend.

Workers were on site yesterday unpacking skates and preparing to flood the surface to make ice.

“We had some refrigeration problems, but all should be resolved,” said Ron Fell of Smart Ice Consulting. “We should be skating by Sunday.”

Andrew Warwick, a skate technician with Robson Square who worked at the rink during the Olympics, said he thinks it will be popular again this year.

“We offer something you can’t get anywhere else in town,” he said. “It’s a nice place for a skate in the evening.”

Warwick said the rink should be ready for skaters by Sunday afternoon.

Mary McNeil, minister of Citizens’ Services, said she couldn’t confirm Sunday as opening day, but said she hopes to transform Robson Square into a permanent and vibrant community gathering place.

“For me that was the best part of the Olympics, being around (Robson Square),” said McNeil.

She added the ice rink could be Vancouver’s version of Rockefeller Centre in New York City or Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto.

“(It) was designed to do exactly that way back when Arthur Erickson first designed it, and we saw the potential last year during the Olympics,” McNeil said.
Source: http://www.metronews.ca/vancouver/local/article/705580--rink-at-robson-square-to-return

[Overground]

City councillor floats downtown public square plan

Imagine a block in the middle of downtown where you could sit and drink a coffee in the sun. NPA Coun. Suzanne Anton does, and she planned to champion her vision of a public space at city council Tuesday afternoon, after the Courier's press deadline.

Anton, the lone NPA councillor, wants staff to hold consultations about turning the 800 block of Robson Street between Howe and Hornby streets into a public square. "To me one of the essential elements of a good public square is chairs and coffee," Anton said.

She says Vancouver lacks a central focus and gathering spot similar to the squares she's visited in Europe and Asia. "The Olympics demonstrated how much people love being downtown and love being with each other," Anton said. "Certainly, there's an opportunity right now because that little piece of street has be closed for nearly a year now, first of all for the Olympics and more recently for the renovations to the courthouse complex there."


Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/travel/City+councillor+floats+downtown+public+square+plan/3910683/story.html#ixzz16zDd3U5L
http://www.vancourier.com/travel/City+councillor+floats+downtown+public+square+plan/3910683/story.html

[SpikePhanta]

I wouldn't mind it being close, but if the plans to make a square requires it to be changed more I would like it.
Make iot more modern and more of a public plaza and maybe get something done in the space around the skating rink.

[jlousa]

Build the Larwill Park site and have it include a proper square from the beginning. Anything done at Robson square will still be less then ideal. I'd prefer to have a new proper square, and allow Robson square go on to function as a secondary square ala Granville Square and others. I will give Robson square is the best current location, but I believe if built right you the people will come.

[raggedy13]

I would love to see that one block of Robson closed to traffic for an improved public square. I agree with others that plenty more could be done to make it a more successful public gathering place, but this one small change would still be a significant improvement in my mind.

Due to all the schizophrenic, multi-level landscaping, ice-rink etc., the major impediment to making Robson Square a more functional public space is that it simply doesn't have enough continuous open space for people to gather en masse. Closing this one small, narrow stretch of road would make for a relatively minor inconvenience to vehicle traffic, yet a major improvement to the pedestrian experience.

[SpongeG]

the traffic is always backed up there its quite messy

[GeeCee]

The rink is now open again!

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/153261--robson-square-skating-rink-re-opened

[delboy]

I would love to see that one block of Robson closed to traffic for an improved public square. I agree with others that plenty more could be done to make it a more successful public gathering place, but this one small change would still be a significant improvement in my mind.

Due to all the schizophrenic, multi-level landscaping, ice-rink etc., the major impediment to making Robson Square a more functional public space is that it simply doesn't have enough continuous open space for people to gather en masse. Closing this one small, narrow stretch of road would make for a relatively minor inconvenience to vehicle traffic, yet a major improvement to the pedestrian experience.

i agree, even if no good as a square there are other things it would be good for, such as an hawkers market,

[djh]

i agree, even if no good as a square there are other things it would be good for, such as an hawkers market,

I just read this article in the Courier. It says that Anton's motion was to go before council the day after the article went to press (i.e., last Thursday).
So does anybody know if the motion was carried? It's a fantastic idea, and I'd love to see it done.

[huenthar]

I found this online:

http://vancouverpublicspace.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/expanding-robson-square-making-it-happen/

It sounds like this may actually happen! This is gonna be great!

[trofirhen]

The suggestions about what to do with Robson Square are all very interesting. Some may like them; others not. However, something that continually escapes me is ... What about the Georgia Street side of the current Gallery?

After years, it sits there, a very usable space in a very (if not THE most) central location in the city, unused for the larger part (this may be where the "smell of ganja" is coming from), dark, gloomy at night, no proper seating, no cappucino stand by day. Nothing.

And yet it seems to be ignored for the most part, except when people are concocting some grandiose scheme for refurbishing it.

Why not integrate it into the scheme of things ... and use it ? :shrug:

[Millennium2002]

It is heavily used actually... many protest movements and such use that as their staging ground.

I hate to say it, but although Arthur Erikson's work may look nice, it should go. Maybe repurpose the domes for something else (or even reuse them in the design of a new plaza), but the rest of the subterranean structure I think could be filled in and replaced with a larger surface-level plaza. It might sound like wrecking a piece of history and a potential architectural masterpiece, but at the moment, without a purpose like an entrance to Pacific Centre or a future rapid transit line (which in itself is unlikely due to the closeness of Granville and VanCityCtr Stations), the subterranean level is more of a space waster and could be replaced with something better (e.g. larger surface-level outdoor winter ice rink that doubles as a summer plaza, anyone?).

[SpongeG]

The suggestions about what to do with Robson Square are all very interesting. Some may like them; others not. However, something that continually escapes me is ... What about the Georgia Street side of the current Gallery?

After years, it sits there, a very usable space in a very (if not THE most) central location in the city, unused for the larger part (this may be where the "smell of ganja" is coming from), dark, gloomy at night, no proper seating, no cappucino stand by day. Nothing.

And yet it seems to be ignored for the most part, except when people are concocting some grandiose scheme for refurbishing it.

Why not integrate it into the scheme of things ... and use it ? :shrug:

you keep bringing this up and we keep telling you its not dead

there is one of the food carts parked there that sees a lot of business and office people hang out there for lunch etc.

there is seating and there is space to chill

and there a million other places that if you want to hang out you can that are much better - i would choose emery barnes park, yaletown park, convention centre, library plaza, over the gallery anyday

[BCPhil]

The suggestions about what to do with Robson Square are all very interesting. Some may like them; others not. However, something that continually escapes me is ... What about the Georgia Street side of the current Gallery?

After years, it sits there, a very usable space in a very (if not THE most) central location in the city, unused for the larger part (this may be where the "smell of ganja" is coming from), dark, gloomy at night, no proper seating, no cappucino stand by day. Nothing.

And yet it seems to be ignored for the most part, except when people are concocting some grandiose scheme for refurbishing it.

Why not integrate it into the scheme of things ... and use it ? :shrug:

It's not supposed to be a food court.

Contrary to popular opinion, there are in fact dozens of squares in Vancouver. Many places where you can stop and grab a cup of joe, sit outside.

But infront of the Art Gallery has a purpose. It's not a glorified cafe, it's a public square. It's where people meet for causes, it's where public events are held (last time I went by there was a rap concert on the Gallery steps), and most importantly it's a great place for tourists to get photos.

trofirhen, you haven't been there in years, but over the last few years, that square has been the defacto mandatory picture spot. If you were visiting, you had to go there and get a photo with Olympic Clock, the art gallery, the Hotel Vancouver, and the amazingly well done restored hotel Georgia. For the last 4 years, the place was ANYTHING but dead. I don't know about this year, but last year the square held the City Christmas tree. Just recently there was a spectacular light show projected onto the front of the VAG (which should be done more often). On a nice day the square is full of tourists enjoying the view. And there is in fact a guy usually selling hotdogs (or something) right on Georgia.

The last thing I want to see happen to that valuable public space is see it become a cafeteria.

As for around back, the only thing they need to do is not replant the horrible underbrush that was there before. It made the area feel small, even though there is a lot of space there, and made a home for rats and a place for people to inject drugs. A nice grassy hill would work just fine in the area. People could actually sit on it and it wouldn't crowd the street. That's seriously all that needs to change, and it would feel so different, and keep most of Erikson's vision intact.

[trofirhen]

It's not supposed to be a food court.

Contrary to popular opinion, there are in fact dozens of squares in Vancouver. Many places where you can stop and grab a cup of joe, sit outside.

But infront of the Art Gallery has a purpose. It's not a glorified cafe, it's a public square. It's where people meet for causes, it's where public events are held (last time I went by there was a rap concert on the Gallery steps), and most importantly it's a great place for tourists to get photos.

trofirhen, you haven't been there in years, but over the last few years, that square has been the defacto mandatory picture spot. If you were visiting, you had to go there and get a photo with Olympic Clock, the art gallery, the Hotel Vancouver, and the amazingly well done restored hotel Georgia. For the last 4 years, the place was ANYTHING but dead. I don't know about this year, but last year the square held the City Christmas tree. Just recently there was a spectacular light show projected onto the front of the VAG (which should be done more often). On a nice day the square is full of tourists enjoying the view. And there is in fact a guy usually selling hotdogs (or something) right on Georgia.

The last thing I want to see happen to that valuable public space is see it become a cafeteria.

As for around back, the only thing they need to do is not replant the horrible underbrush that was there before. It made the area feel small, even though there is a lot of space there, and made a home for rats and a place for people to inject drugs. A nice grassy hill would work just fine in the area. People could actually sit on it and it wouldn't crowd the street. That's seriously all that needs to change, and it would feel so different, and keep most of Erikson's vision intact.
:previous:
Hey, please, whoa! I do not want to see it become a food court either! ! ! Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned cappucino at all. My MAJOR complaint is really that it is dark and gloomy at night, and that the uneven concrete surfacing makes it rather ugly looking (from that surfacing aspect) and that it really is the "heart" of downtown Vancouver, and needs to given an overhaul: some of that "cosmetic surgery," if you will, to make it elegant and attractive, day or night. It's a focal point that has been left to rot, to go to waste. That's all I'm really saying.

[SpongeG]

it's not dark at night it has huge flood lights that light up the whole thing and they have lighting effects on the building highlighting an installation (some ships and things) and they have been using the windows a lot more with things lit up

i thinks you need to ask santa for a visit back to Vancouver ;)

the grass is gone or was replaced with cedar chips

its get well used with various gatherings, they had a muslim festival not too long ago with vendors and info booths and such, there is a first nations thing every year, various annual events use the space

[officedweller]

Sounds good on the Robson Square / Robson Street closure. Robson isn't really a major thoroughfare since it moves so slowly anyways, and if TransLink is OK with rerouting buses, sounds good.

If I recall correctly, Robson was originally supposed to be closed across the project, but was left open as a "transit mall" - some time later, acess was allowed for all vehicles. This will go back to the original "vision" with the removal of the need for transit access.

The one thing they need to do is install escalators from Robson Street to the lower plaza. The staircases under the "pagodas" are too hidden from view.

[trofirhen]

it's not dark at night it has huge flood lights that light up the whole thing and they have lighting effects on the building highlighting an installation (some ships and things) and they have been using the windows a lot more with things lit up

i thinks you need to ask santa for a visit back to Vancouver ;)

the grass is gone or was replaced with cedar chips

its get well used with various gatherings, they had a muslim festival not too long ago with vendors and info booths and such, there is a first nations thing every year, various annual events use the space
^^^
Good to hear. Thanks, SpongeG :tup:

[Locked In]

No question the Georgia plaza could use some work though - in particular, the bark mulch is awful and an embarrassment IMO. I was there for the tree lighting last week on a drizzly night and was up to my ankles in muddy, wood-chippy puddles.

Some nice pavers would do wonders, but I suspect nothing will happen to the plaza in the way of renos until the art gallery situation is determined one way or the other.

[itinerant]

The one thing they need to do is install escalators from Robson Street to the lower plaza. The staircases under the "pagodas" are too hidden from view.

Weren't the pagodas once illuminated with flashing red circles with restaurant name, etc. (I haven't looked lately to see if they still are)? I also seem to recall nobody had troubles finding the place when there was a restaurant and 'media centre' down there--at least for the first ten years or so before the novelty wore off.

Why would somebody need an escalator to find their way?...really! There are already two huge wide stairways with open views leading down from both sides, plus two stairways under flashy pagodas on each side of Robson. All that is needed is a real reason to go down there. An open ice rink certainly helps. A couple restaurants, bars, book stores, coffee shops, or similar would help even more. Sorry, but UBC downtown is more a deterrent than an enticement for me--I miss the Media Centre, and would seriously welcome the Art Gallery expansion in that direction.

[officedweller]

I don't think they've lit up for a while. The ability to support a restaurant down there will in part depend on ease of access and visibility. The restaurant staircases are like the access to Vancouver Centre Mall from the street - uninviting (plus they could be perceived as dangerous).

Better access would help people spontaneously going down there. A visitor walking on Robson "might" look down (given that the hedges are a bit lower now) but then ask "how do I get down there?". Sure, there are wide grand staircases "over there", but they're half a block over - so why bother when the rest of Robson Street beckons?

[trofirhen]

When Robson Square opened in 1979, Vancouver was emerging from its chrysalis as a regional logging town into a young butterfly of a city. And Robson Square was a dream civic centre. There were restaurants like the Mozart Konditorei on the lower (sunken) portion, and people strolled through the complex to look at the waterfalls, trees, and the architecture.
*
Now it has been shunted into "category B," and people want to do away with much of it, or change it; perhaps understandably so, I make no judgements. But it is a shame nonetheless to see something that once had so much stature and so much promise slip so far down in the public's esteem.

[SpongeG]

mm subterranean dining vs view dining at coal harbour - hmm the choice would be hard

haha

vancouver is an outdoor loving city people would rather hit elsewhere - if they wanted robson square to be more it would have been by now

[SpikePhanta]

Put the first Downtown Boston Pizza?
Ka-ching? haha
anyways, I think it would be probably best that they level that area and expand it for UBC then level the area theyre renovating right now, close the street, major renovations that include spaces for people watching and an in ice rink

[jlousa]

A Cactus Club would certainly draw people down there, but I'd rather see a Timmys down there, close the concession stand selling hot chocolate and have the Timmy's have a take out window instead. A Timmy's draws a lot more people over the course of a day then a regular restaurant does, and that's what the area needs, people traffic.
Replace the Pagodas with a West coast style tilted roof like the one at the top of the Cielo and call it a day for now. I don't think much is really needed, we just need that push to put it over the edge it's so close right now.

[SpikePhanta]

Hmm a timmys would be good down there, right after skating to grab a hot cocoa and donut.

[officedweller]

Pic by me today - lousy day for a pic - dark & cloudy, so the exposure is long and the pic blurry.

I could easily see them [i.e. whoever City (Robson St.) or PavCo (Robson Square)] paving Robson Street through the square at the same elevation as the sidewalk (i.e. no curb) with ramps at each end to meet Howe and Hornby and installing removable bollards to separate the sidewalk from the roadway. But of course, they won't be doing that...

I think the only section remaining to be re-membraned is the passage from Robson Street to the Art Gallery entrance (unless that was the very first stage - which it could have been, I think I recall some of the big Japanese maples being removed and put back in in that area) and the forecourt of the Art Gallery (for which they appear to be setting up scaffolding).

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8807/imgp0680s.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/imgp0680s.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[officedweller]

Pic by me today - they're pouring the roadway, tents are up in the VAG forecourt and I think soil is back in the planters at the south end stairs:

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6629/imgp0688t.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/imgp0688t.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[BCPhil]

Hmm a timmys would be good down there, right after skating to grab a hot cocoa and donut.

And during the warm months, they should cover up the skating rink and put in a small farmers market under the road.

[Jebby]

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7735/85615222.jpg

I wish they'd replace the building I pointed to. It's so uninviting at street level and I've always felt like it makes that corner a dead zone that you either walk past without taking note or you cross the street on the other side of Robson. It'd be nice to have something with double height ground floor for a big, lit up store with a big presence.


PS: does sears have a green roof???

[SpikePhanta]

^^^ I agree, the building doesnt really have good retail, the Mac store and the starbucks are very small. It would be a great spot for a bright flagship store (cough Apple, Cough)


And during the warm months, they should cover up the skating rink and put in a small farmers market under the road.

And continue promoting it for local events like maybe local concerts, on top of the use by dance studios.

[officedweller]

I wish they'd replace the building I pointed to. It's so uninviting at street level and I've always felt like it makes that corner a dead zone that you either walk past without taking note or you cross the street on the other side of Robson. It'd be nice to have something with double height ground floor for a big, lit up store with a big presence.

But I think it's pretty high end-ish retail in there on the Robson side - Ferragamo and MAC cosmetics, and with the Starbucks around the corner, the landlord probably isn't hurting, and you can only build to about the height as the other buildings around Robson Square, there's a height limit to prevent shadows over the square. I could probably see a reconfiguration of the retail podium (extending the retail to the sidewalk) before the whole building coming down.

PS: does sears have a green roof???

Not intentionally.

[Jebby]

Wow it's still Mac and Ferragamo there? Those two have been there for at least 12 years! I know its quite high end and the fact that a replacement building couldn't go much higher, but itd be nice to have double height, light, inviting retail on that corner. It's one of thr mist prominent intersections downtown and to me thr way the retail is currently built out seems like such a dissapointment.

[BCPhil]

Wow it's still Mac and Ferragamo there? Those two have been there for at least 12 years! I know its quite high end and the fact that a replacement building couldn't go much higher, but itd be nice to have double height, light, inviting retail on that corner. It's one of thr mist prominent intersections downtown and to me thr way the retail is currently built out seems like such a dissapointment.

I don't think it's the building, I think it's just the fact that Ferragamo is there. They seem to make money even with only at the most 2 or 3 people at one time in the store.

The nice thing about that building, is it's a nice gap back from Robson. It's easy to walk around the gawkers there after being held up by them because of that bus shelter by the New Ballance store. I mean, there's like only space for 3 people side by side there, and when it rains, people walk there, under the glass awning, with their umbrellas open. Geeze.

[Millennium2002]

Appears to be more like built-up moss from inadequate roof cleaning and maintenance... like how the exterior sometimes has dark muddy streaks all over the place. The Sears parkade entrance also seems to be in the way of easy pedestrian access... although I'm not too sure about how to solve that as long as the building remains in its current location.

I was walking through there on Tuesday with my friends... and let's say that... my friends and I barely got through because it was too crowded. >< Skating at the ice rink below was also an issue... since it was so popular there was barely any room to speed around (which may not be the point but it still feels good). I had some excitement about skating there before but it has essentially dried up now after this first and only experience.

[cornholio]

Where would the potential subway entrance be located? Im guessing the subway was envisioned to be a north south line under Howe street? Or east west under Robson?
Would it be possible to build a short underground bus way along Robson by pass the closed Robson street stretch that would go under the underground plaza and have a bus stop there conected to the plaza? It would seem that it would need to be pretty deep and maybe not cheap plus two more blocks of Robson street on the west and east would need to accommodate the two lane tunnel portals. But it would allow the closure of Robson street while maintaining a bus route and with a underground stop add to the accessibility and importance of the below grade plaza. It can also be built to be able to handle a street car rails in the future. While with the closure of Robson street above ground would really add to the feel and improve the area above ground imo.

[huenthar]

Forget about tunnels, reconfiguring the space, etc.. We can keep the square, hill and all, as it is, and have a large flat public square in the same location, connect with the Georgia street side, render the subway station question moot, and deal with everyone's favorite hideous downtown building all in one fell stroke. The solution? Raze Sears :) That whole block east of the courthouse should become our proper public square.

The TD tower would have to go, too, of course. I think it's a good long-term vision, for the time when those buildings start aging badly (maybe in 40 years).

[invisibleairwaves]

The Sears building is already aging badly :P

It really is the single biggest obstacle to realizing the potential of Robson Square and the surrounding area. Countless industrial buildings have been forced out of downtown over the last couple of decades, along with the jobs that go with them, and yet there's a half-empty monolith at the absolute focal point of downtown that we can't get rid of? Come on.

[Millennium2002]

There's also almost nothing that prevents an orderly and less invasive deconstruction of Sears without disturbing the nearby TD tower... although it'd probably cost more than an implosion.

[officedweller]

There was talk a while back of a tower being built on the Sears site (but out of the Granville view cone and set back from the Robson Square height restrictions). The core would have to penetrate the existing underground garage, but probably only for the area of the building floorplate.
I think someone said they saw renderings...

I think the current problem with the building is that the late 90s renos done by Eaton's/Sears did not respect the original architecture (i.e. dark glass could have been replaced with blue glass and back-lit panels restored, terrazzo panels polished and sealed). (Remember that renovating building for current "trends" is what led to heritage buildings being stripped of their cornices and fine detail stonework to look more modern. Likewise, I tend to favour respecting the original design or at least being sympathetic to it.)

Given its current state, the structure could be reclad with a glass curtain wall having fine detail (sun shades, etc.) and would make a good podium for an office tower (i.e. try getting a podium that tall in a new development (just look at Shangri-La or Ritz-Carlton)).

[officedweller]

Pic by me today.
Note that curbs are being put back in.
I think the tent south of the ice rink is for a stage for this Saturday's Olympics Anniversary events.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1041/imgp0729p.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/imgp0729p.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[huenthar]

Pic by me today.
Note that curbs are being put back in.

Well there's some money down the toilet...

[trofirhen]

:previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous:
to join the millions upon millions already flushed away on useless studies; dead-ended projects ... you name it.

[officedweller]

It would have made more sense to keep it all level and install bollards with chains that could be removed in future.

[Overground]

It's like the busy road near my place. They built quite long island with pedestrian crossing features only to tear it up a year later for a big sewage pipe project and then rebuilt another island after that was done. They've now torn some of that one up recently to put in soil for planting. Did they not discuss this in advance and have some sort of timeline instead of wasting money? Zero foresight, zero communication.

Then there's my friend's street in south Van. They have had street cleaning signs up for a month so no one can park on it for fear of being towed. Pretty frustrating for everyone resident on the street. So he phoned the City and they lied to him with some excuse. He called them on the lie and said they plain and simple forgot about it. He told them they have 48 hrs to clean the street or remove the signs or he will gather them all up and put them in a dumpster. They picked up all the signs first thing the next morning, haha. They never ended up sweeping the street either. Again, bad management, waste of tax dollars.

[trofirhen]

and those "pagodas" are STILL there .... aarrrrrrgggggggghghhhhhghhhghghhh :yuck:

[dreambrother808]

The "waterfalls" are running. When did that happen and when were they last used?

[officedweller]

I saw them running a couple of weeks ago.

They stopped them for the Olympic anniversary party and restarted them.

[djh]

This is apparently the most slow-moving, boring "project" I've seen. No visible external change in the project. No tangible benefit to the public. No apparent improvement in public access. To the public, it looks as if Robson Street has been dug-up for an eternity (how long has it been now, >6 months?), closed to traffic, diversions have been a right PITA, and at the end of it all, everything will go back to exactly as it appeared before. And at what cost? As trofirhen pointed out, "millions and millions".

I wish that at the very least the city would put some boards up at each end of the construction, informing the inconvenienced public a) WHAT they are doing, b) WHY they are doing it, and c) WHEN it will be done.

[Conrad]

This is apparently the most slow-moving, boring "project" I've seen. No visible external change in the project. No tangible benefit to the public. No apparent improvement in public access. To the public, it looks as if Robson Street has been dug-up for an eternity (how long has it been now, >6 months?), closed to traffic, diversions have been a right PITA, and at the end of it all, everything will go back to exactly as it appeared before. And at what cost? As trofirhen pointed out, "millions and millions".

I wish that at the very least the city would put some boards up at each end of the construction, informing the inconvenienced public a) WHAT they are doing, b) WHY they are doing it, and c) WHEN it will be done.

HEAR HEAR! The city has been doing a lousy job keeping the public informed about this project. Why this half-baked '70s pipe dream is being restored is beyond me. What a wasted opportunity.

[dreambrother808]

Having worked in the construction industry, I have some understanding of delays and whatnot, but the interminable duration of this project borders on the ridiculous, especially when you consider how many people walk through that area every day.

[Overground]

One thing for certain, this area does not deserve to be called a "Square" any longer. It's no where near what a square should be. It should be called Robson Trapezium.

[SpongeG]

its a city project i am amazed its so fast must be nice when you can make your own overtime

[geoff's two cents]

It feels like it's near the finishing stages. I'm not sure what you forumers expect, speed-wise, given the complexities of the project (digging it up and replacing it, bush by bush), given that it's been under construction for well under a year so far, given that it requires arguably more than new construction on a cleared lot would, and given the preservationist mandate for the site.

Not a fan of those pagodas either, personally, and I agree that the original design should have been more open, but the whole complex is also extraordinarily architecturally unique by Canadian standards, not a bad spot to stroll through during the day, and worth preserving in my opinion. Nor do I think the site would be as underused if the downtown UBC campus was better developed.

Moreover, while it would also be nice to have the equivalent to a Nathan Phillips or Dundas Square in the city (which I gather is what most of us here want), I think the Granville entertainment district and environs is a much more fitting location for a DS lookalike. Vancouver's symbolic equivalent to NPS (just outside TO's main retail and shopping corridors), on the other hand, would arguably be better realized at the proposed new VAG site, across from the library.

[SFUVancouver]

its a city project i am amazed its so fast must be nice when you can make your own overtime

My understanding was that it was a Provincial project, since the Province owns Robson Square.

[jlousa]

That's correct, it's the Ministry of Citizens services that's heading the project.

[officedweller]

I guess that the large tulip trees near the Art Gallery entrance had to be cut down to repair the membrane underneath them.
Pics by me today:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3413/imgp0753s.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/imgp0753s.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Before:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1041/imgp0729p.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/imgp0729p.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[trofirhen]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yuk, what a mess!
And people had such high hopes and fresh feelings for it when it opened over thirty years ago!!
:yuck: ....... and those fgrkarfingndjf pagodas are still there!! Has public taste gone out the window? Would anyone please dare go blow them up?!?!
* Or maybe start an 'anti-pagoda' movement, or something ....

[Spork]

^^

Who owns/operates the property? The Province or the City? I'm sure that there is somebody that knows what happened to the plan to remove them.

[officedweller]

There was probably a committee that decided that the pagodas are integral to the design of Robson Square being the last vestige of an Asia-Pacific theme butchered with the removal of the Chrysanthemum domes.
[kidding]

[trofirhen]

^^

Who owns/operates the property? The Province or the City? I'm sure that there is somebody that knows what happened to the plan to remove them.
:previous:
It is possible that BCBC (bc buildings corp) owns the property, and leases it out. I believe they own the Georgia St side of it. Don't quote me on that, though.

This place needs a face-lift, big-time :shrug:

[SpongeG]

pics by me

are these glass things new or were they always there?

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/42/dsc01848q.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7232/dsc01849egc.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5144/dsc01850q.jpg

[Spork]

^^ They put those there when the new dome went up, didn't they?

[SpongeG]

so they are recent than - i've never seen em before not that i go to that part

[officedweller]

Looks like they're new -
Whereas before, the planter provided a barrier from the drop-off to the plaza below, I guess that they now have to protect against people climbing into the flower bed and then falling off the edge.

[officedweller]

Pic by me today - looks like the road is done (and that could be sprouting grass seed on the mound, waterfalls are dry again):

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6417/imgp0769e.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/imgp0769e.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[trofirhen]

pics by me

are these glass things new or were they always there?

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5144/dsc01850q.jpg

:previous: I think they were always there, Sponge. I don't recall any other type of barriers from before ... (and that would have been necessary, for public safety) ... so I'm 99.5 % sure these are original. / someone will correct me if I'm wrong, anyway !! ;)

[SpongeG]

i had never seen them before - i may have to dig out olympic pics to see if they were there

there used to be a hedge there to keep people from falling well the drug addicts or teens needing a hideout to drink were really the only one who dared to use that little park with the rats

[trofirhen]

i had never seen them before - i may have to dig out olympic pics to see if they were there

there used to be a hedge there to keep people from falling well the drug addicts or teens needing a hideout to drink were really the only one who dared to use that little park with the rats
:previous:
That park DID seem to degenerate. However, I don't THINK it was only hedges to keep people from falling. If it were so, SOMEBODY would have had a fall by now. I could be wrong, but I think the glass panels were there from the outset. I recall them from years ago, it seems. Now that hedges are pruned, they may be just be more noticeable. ... (selon moi) ....
2
* A second look at the pix, and I realize these may be replacements for the original ones, it makes more sense -again my perception only--- but I recall the original ones seemed flimsier, and may have had their base in the ground instead of being bolted to the concrete

[itinerant]

:previous: I think they were always there, Sponge. I don't recall any other type of barriers from before ... (and that would have been necessary, for public safety) ... so I'm 99.5 % sure these are original. / someone will correct me if I'm wrong, anyway !! ;)

There were no glass barriers along these edges before the recent renovations of the past couple years. Waist-high plantings separated any edge from the pathways. Apparently, the people behind the renos considered it too much of a risk that people would climb over the shrubbery to hurl themselves over the edge.

Similarly, there are now barred fences along Hornby street at street grade, and there is chain link fence added above an underground parking exit. All added in past couple years. The barred fence might be security related, but I don't know.

While in keeping with the overall look of the design, these 'additions' are unwelcome barricades. Only exception might be the chain link over the parking exit, but I would have thought (and hope still) that a less visually jarring solution will replace it.