Robson Square Renovations

[EdinVan]

yup, light pollution, bird migratory patterns will be ruined and we will kill all the birds with our lighting; or so the story goes.

These kinds of trivial obsessions take people's minds off of the much larger problems in this city over which they have little control (or which they would prefer to ignore). "We can't solve the housing crisis, but at least we saved those poor little birds!"

[EdinVan]

last year the tree was on robson street. Its an artificial tree I think.

Artificial -- very fitting for Vancouver.

[jollyburger]

Artificial -- very fitting for Vancouver.

Like you can tell if it's real or not. Do you go sniff the trunk?

[jollyburger]

They are.

https://www.tourismvancouver.com/event/2017-vancouver-christmas-tree-lighting!/15467/

Also the tree last year was 50 feet, this one is going to be 76.

[LeftCoaster]

Also the tree last year was 50 feet, this one is going to be 76.

Cool, I didn't know artificial trees grew just like real ones! Very authentic.

[jollyburger]

Tree going up in the North Plaza

[mcminsen]

This is very strange. The tree is only about 7 feet high and they've put it way up on a cone shaped frame. ;)




Nov.28 '17, my pic
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/922/MRb5Uk.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmMRb5Ukj)

[trofirhen]

I see sacks or boxes of greenery to the lower right. Maybe that frame is going to be clad with that. Artificial, I would imagine. (Not that it really matters; it's the thought that counts)

[mcminsen]

Yup, I think that's it. I'll go back and take another pic when it's done. https://forum.smartcanucks.ca/images/smilies/lotsOsmilies/icon_santa.gif



Nov.28 '17, my pic
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/Lsb2yM.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnLsb2yMj)

[Vin]

Mcminsen, I thought u were kidding! You actually thought the tree would only be 7' high? LOL!

But then agan, who knows right? :D

BTW, I think they are putting up another tree on the south side of the art gallery. I saw some green stuff laid there this morning. Looks like we may have multiple trees downtown this year!

[mcminsen]

Sigh.... okay, next time I'll put ten of these winking smiley thingies instead of just one.

;);););););););););)


https://forum.smartcanucks.ca/images/smilies/lotsOsmilies/icon_santa.gif

[mcminsen]

Nov.29 '17, my pics
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/SURZKp.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnSURZKpj)


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/dPvI1W.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pndPvI1Wj)

[officedweller]

http://images.dailyhive.com/20171205114009/vancouver-christmas-tree-2017.jpg
May Hung / Flickr
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-christmas-tree-2017-photos

[LeftCoaster]

I walked by this morning, you can see through the tree from up close. Is that standard for these types of fake trees around a cone? It seemed pretty rinky-dink when you could see the cone through it.

[trofirhen]

I like the overall blue-dominant effect of the tree lights. Nicer than red-dominant.

[officedweller]

WET light colour - Pacific Centre has white lights hanging down at each of the new entrances - but they also have white lit trees
- so the trees are lost in the sea of white lights.

[trofirhen]

WET light colour - Pacific Centre has white lights hanging down at each of the new entrances - but they also have white lit trees
- so the trees are lost in the sea of white lights.

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/02ba0bdaf8354a3892a9fc5ce2b53c9a/christmas-lights-on-the-mairie-du-20em-arrondissement-paris-france-a9gyrw.jpg

https://www.parisinfo.com/var/otcp/sites/images/_aliases/diaporama_big/node_43/node_51/node_232/illuminations-champs-elys%C3%A9es-avenue-xmas-champs-elys%C3%A9es-@-paris-6969-l-630x405-l-%C2%A9-kmeron-via-flickr-dr/18580073-1-fre-FR/Illuminations-Champs-Elys%C3%A9es-avenue-Xmas-Champs-Elys%C3%A9es-@-Paris-6969-l-630x405-l-%C2%A9-Kmeron-via-Flickr-DR.jpg

A shame, that. Here in Paris most everything is blue and golden-white. Very elegant color scheme.

[mcminsen]

Jan.31 '18, my pic
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/xTk34L.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poxTk34Lj)

[logan5]

Am I being too nitpicky here? That bike rack bugs the shit out of me.

[osirisboy]

Paving stones look great. And So much better than vegetation up against the building, at least the bike racks will have people coming and going in that area. Now The art gallery just needs to higher a pressure washing person and clean that green grime off the building

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

they are always covering that building up with posters/banners. arg.

[trofirhen]

Am I being too nitpicky here? That bike rack bugs the shit out of me.

I don't think you're being nitpicky. It looks ugly. Even if they painted it grey, it would be a lot better - less conspicuous.

[officedweller]

The wrap on the dome looks good.
Don't like the large panels blocking the facades of the building - looks too much like a construction hoarding.
They should have worked a design around the columns, but that would require too much thought.

[Large Cat]

That tree was awesome.

[Vin]

The boats on top bug me a lot more: they gotta go. The rain as well.

[nickbeaulieu]

The building needs a serious deep cleaning...

[SpongeG]

i love the boats on top

[LeftCoaster]

I don't think you're being nitpicky. It looks ugly. Even if they painted it grey, it would be a lot better - less conspicuous.

It's a bike share, they need people to see it to use it. Painting it grey would defeat the purpose.

[jollyburger]

Well they were more grey, just covered with Shaw stickers which makes sense if they want sponsorship money from them.

http://www.kitsilano.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Kitsilano-Mobi-bikes.jpg

Source: kitsilano.ca

[flipper316]

Am I being too nitpicky here? That bike rack bugs the shit out of me.

At least it's not on the street taking up 2-3 parking spaces like other bike share bike racks. Thank god at least this one is on a plaza/sidewalk where they should be.

[Vin]

Walked by the new plaza to work this morning. Saw that all the fat roundish light bollards are already terribly scratched up, with some tilted and possibly damaged. I blame the skateboarding punks. They should be arrested on the spot for vandalism if they skateboard on public furniture or other structures.

[mcminsen]

Here's a view on a dry and sunny winter's day. At the height of summer I suspect that plaza could get a bit hot.



Feb.8 '18, my pic
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/Drld9x.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poDrld9xj)

[trofirhen]

I think that it could get hot in the high-sun season. This is fine in spring, but could radiate a lot af late-day heat on summer afternoons. Rare hot weather could be "amplified."
I hope it remains in some way inviting, and not just a place to transit through or to be used for special events, but also as a place to sit and relax with a drink in warm weather.
At present, it seems to me rather austere, and although the old planting had to go, I still think a couple of Scotch pines to the side would have given it more character.
As for the bikes racks: get used to it. Even here in Paris, they're everywhere (and the bikes are awkward three-speeds in the crazy Parisian traffic. Haven't heard of any collisions though).

[SpongeG]

the dome goes pink at night

[trofirhen]

the dome goes pink at night

Seriouly? Sounds a bit tacky. I would have thought pure white light to enhance the green copper oxide of the dome. Or is it just for this decoration. The dome is decorated, too.

[SpongeG]

its wrapped for the special exhibit

takasahi murakami exhibit until may. You can get a great deal on tickets at costco 2 for 34.99 + tax, reg ticket price is $48 ea.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4753/28410441609_7853200856_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KhwWua)2018-02-10_12-19-41 (https://flic.kr/p/KhwWua) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

http://www.vanartgallery.bc.ca/murakami/

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4520552.1517856464!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/takashi-murakami-4.jpg

[dreambrother808]

The VAG does not charge $48 per person. That’s for 2 tickets.

[SpongeG]

City Councillor wants Robson Square roadway reopened to traffic

Kenneth Chan
Mar 06, 2018 3:25 pm

Robson Square is no longer working the way it was intended to be, says one Vancouver City Councillor, who now wants the roadway running through the public space reopened for other uses.

Non-Partisan Association councillor Melissa De Genova will be proposing a motion next week to request City staff reopen the one city block stretch at 800 Robson Street – running through Robson Square – to transit buses and cycling.


Additionally, the motion proposes a re-evaluation of the space’s usage by all vehicles and to continue using it as event space by occasionally closing it for festivals and special events.

...

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/melissa-de-genova-800-robson-street-robson-square-plaza-closure-march-2018

[osirisboy]

^^^omg yes!

It makes no sense to close it permanently.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

if they would close it, it should have been left open for buses to go through since 1, that was the original intention by Erickson, 2 it makes the bus routes a lot more useful, 3 it is barely being used, most people just walk through on the sidewalks anyways, 4 it is mostly being used a place to sell/buy weed and beg.

[dreambrother808]

The weed vendors have been gone for a while now. I walk through there everyday and am happy just the way it is, as I’m sure many other people who actually live and work downtown are as well.

[trofirhen]

Although naturally not as splendid as Trafalgar Square, Robson Square Georgia Plaza is the focal point, the "nexus" of downtown Vancouver.
This IMO is significant, because so many North American cities, often much larger, may have impressive buildings and shopping, yet still rather sprawl, with a lack of a central point.
This plaza is uncluttered, the buildings on the north side of Georgia loom over it, though not oppressively so, and the Rattenbury building makes a fine and elegant backdrop.
IMO, when the tourist season starts, there will be a lot of people snapping pictures here, and maybe sitting, sipping cappucinos. Downtown has achieved that true "big city" feeling.

[SpongeG]

did anyone check this out?

nKU_MqBGT2I

this better explains it

BjuHOHL_Cy0

[LeftCoaster]

Seems like no....

[LeftCoaster]

Couple of shots from 701 WG this afternoon:

https://i.imgur.com/CXAaWE7.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/KhjBTuj.jpg

[trofirhen]

It seems that now that the square is lit up better at night, and is more "pedestrain friendly;" level with the street, it ties downtown together as its focal point amidst mature buildings.
It is rather the Trafalgar Square of Vancouver, (minus the fountains, lions and Nelson's Column.) But on this scale, it gives an almost European feeling not found in Seattle, for example.

[jlousa]

Going to change this one to completed.

[CivicBlues]

Does anyone know why there is still orange fencing around the "steam-y" manhole covers in the Northwest corner of the square? Right at the Hornby/Georgia crosswalk

They've been there for months maybe even a year now.

[LeftCoaster]

Yep still there.

[officedweller]

I've wondered about that too -
because in other places, they've just installed a vent flush with the ground.
Previously, the vents all along Georgia were "hidden" under concrete planters so that no one would walk over them (and get scalded?)

[jollyburger]

Well I know people have gotten scalded on that vent so maybe it's different from some of the other ones .

[osirisboy]

Looks great. One concern is that they need to install some anti skateboarding things on some of the surfaces. I noticed stupid skateboarders ruining and marking up brand new concrete.

[officedweller]

Well I know people have gotten scalded on that vent so maybe it's different from some of the other ones .

Ahh, could be. Maybe there are primary and secondary pipes and vents, some hotter than the others.

[mcminsen]

I wonder if it would be feasible to make some public art that vents the steam. Like maybe a dragon with steam coming out of his nostrils.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

I wonder if it would be feasible to make some public art that vents the steam. Like maybe a dragon with steam coming out of his nostrils.

anything is possible, look at the steam clock and steam planters. it just takes someone with the ability to make that decision to have the will to do it.

[Aroundtheworld]

For a city that has generally good city planning, I don't get how Vancouver can't do public spaces properly. Does anybody at the city maybe have any insight into why this is?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

For a city that has generally good city planning, I don't get how Vancouver can't do public spaces properly. Does anybody at the city maybe have any insight into why this is?

it doesn't generally have good city planning, nor does it have a willingness to push boundaries and think big, nor does it have enough people in management/power that have the balls to push the limits of what is possible.

thinking outside the box is not in the City's ability in any way shape or form.

[trofirhen]

Perhaps now a pertinent Question might be: What will the square be officially titled? Robson Square North? Georgia Square? Art Gallery Square? What?:???:

[libtard]

Does anyone know the exact size of the north plaza?

[jollyburger]

Does anyone know the exact size of the north plaza?

45,000 square feet

[SpongeG]

Vancouver gives two public plazas Indigenous names

POSTMEDIA NEWS Updated: June 18, 2018

A pair of public plazas in Vancouver were given new Indigenous names during a formal naming ceremony on Monday morning.

The new name for the Vancouver Art Gallery north plaza is šxʷƛ̓ənəq Xwtl’e7énḵ Square and the Queen Elizabeth Theatre Plaza will now be known as šxʷƛ̓exən Xwtl’a7shn. The ceremony took place at the gallery’s recently renovated north plaza.

...

vancouversun.com/news/local-news/vancouver-to-give-two-public-plazas-indigenous-names

[Metro-One]

Rolls of the tongue doesn’t it?

[trofirhen]

Won't they need to "Romanize" the writing? Especially for official reasons, and for people out of town? It's hard to interpret as written: both names.

[officedweller]

Big stainless steel UBC sign installed at Robson Square:

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ubc-robson-square-letter-sign

[trofirhen]

The metal UBC sign gives a small but significant sort of "icon" to downton and especially RSq, of course. Gives a noticeably "corporate educational" feeling to the 'hood. The blue university building sign itself gives a feeling of intellectual activity, business and wil greet the larger numbers of people, but also of the adds 'life" and all that brings.
Score one, for Robson Square, and for downtown. This 'radiates.'

[Graham_Yvr]

The metal UBC sign gives a small but significant sort of "icon" to downton and especially RSq, of course. Gives a noticeably "corporate educational" feeling to the 'hood. The blue university building sign itself gives a feeling of intellectual activity, business and wil greet the larger numbers of people, but also of the adds 'life" and all that brings.
Score one, for Robson Square, and for downtown. This 'radiates.'

Until you step inside the building and then all illusion of "icon", and "corporate educational feeling" gives way to dated, ugly, depressing interiors. And WHEN will those darn pagodas be replaced? It was more than a year ago that the development application was posted.

[trofirhen]

Until you step inside the building and then all illusion of "icon", and "corporate educational feeling" gives way to dated, ugly, depressing interiors. And WHEN will those darn pagodas be replaced? It was more than a year ago that the development application was posted.

Yes. Remove those ugly pagodas, and give the interior a bright, reflective facelift. That might do it. Not a $$$$ megaproject either.;)

[Vin]

šxʷƛ̓ənəq Xwtl’e7énḵ

šxʷƛ̓exən Xwtl’a7shn

:haha:

[trofirhen]

šxʷƛ̓ənəq Xwtl’e7énḵ

šxʷƛ̓exən Xwtl’a7shn

:haha:
:uhh: Ahem .... "RahTHER". After taking a scond look at this, I thought: even if local people learn to pronounce this, won't it be phonetically reduced, and mispronounced anyway?
Secondly, there's the risk that people will either shorten the name totally, and /or start calling the square something unintended, like "Art Gallery Square" or "Robson Square North" ...
And for tourists and visitors, it will be super-difficult, both to pronounce, and identify, as it is written in a different alphabet, and has phonemes absent in English.
I'm all for acknowledging First Nations people, and what they gave up, but some places lend themselves to such renaming better than others, and I don't know how this will work out.

[s211]

:uhh: Ahem .... "RahTHER". After taking a scond look at this, I thought: even if local people learn to pronounce this, won't it be phonetically reduced, and mispronounced anyway?
Secondly, there's the risk that people will either shorten the name totally, and /or start calling the square something unintended, like "Art Gallery Square" or "Robson Square North" ...
And for tourists and visitors, it will be super-difficult, both to pronounce, and identify, as it is written in a different alphabet, and has phonemes absent in English.
I'm all for acknowledging First Nations people, and what they gave up, but some places lend themselves to such renaming better than others, and I don't know how this will work out.

I'm feeling culturally misappropriated: they've used my alpha-numeric set. Get your own. (tired of all the unpronounceable ass-hattery involved with this)

[trofirhen]

I'm feeling culturally misappropriated: they've used my alpha-numeric set. Get your own. (tired of all the unpronounceable ass-hattery involved with this)
I think the problem with this naming the square is overheated political correctness.
Other countries have done same thing. In my original family's new Zealand, Mt. Egmont (beautiful cone volcano) is now 'Taranaki', and Mount Cook is now 'Aoraki'. Not a problem, but ......
At least, they've kept the A B C Roman alphabet, Mary Mother of Gunnar!
These hyroglyphics escape me, sorry. The pronunciation, too. I have a feeling the square may take on some nickname, like "Art Gallery Square" or maybe "Georgia Square" .
The noble attempt at aborignal salutation and acknowledgement will not work without the 'A B C' Roman alphabet and/or lessions in given language writing and pronuciation for the public.
Spoken , the closest I can come to say is "shoot'ska-watn') which would mess up American tourists' confusion with that and Sakatchewan enormously, maybe even some kids.

[dreambrother808]

And life goes on... this doesn’t really hurt or affect anyone. It’s simply a nice gesture of recognition and if it bothers you perhaps you should look deeper as to why. The settler’s entitlement when infringed upon even in these minor ways doesn’t like to be questioned. “This is how things are, this is the system my mind and heart coalesced around.” Like it or not, changing that balance in any way can upset our perception of our own identity, for example Americans who bristle at the mere mention of slavery. What are they and we really afraid of? These are the questions we should be asking ourselves if we want to make progress on these issues, myself included.

Some concerns are practical and that is understandable but there is usually an emotional element around these reactions that would benefit from further exploration.

[idunno]

^^ :cheers:

[Migrant_Coconut]

It depends on what the First Nations want, I suppose. Reconciliation is supposed to be about “establishing and maintaining a mutually respectful relationship between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal peoples in this country. In order for that to happen, there has to be awareness of the past, an acknowledgement of the harm that has been inflicted, atonement for the causes, and action to change behaviour.”

If they're fine with a superficial kind of reconciliation that's basically just another Jim Crow law, then that's what they'll get: a bunch of government and business reps parroting the "unceded lands" speech and mangling the name, while everybody else near-completely ignores that and calls the place "Art Gallery Square." If they want a reconciliation that involves appreciation and acceptance of their culture by the city, then it kinda sucks, but it would help if it was "S'tlaneq Hwtl'enk" or something that can be read/spelled/spoken with a QWERTY keyboard; same reason for Pinyin or Romanji, and why Russian hockey players don't have Cyrillic on their jerseys.

[dreambrother808]

It depends on what the First Nations want, I suppose. Reconciliation is supposed to be about “establishing and maintaining a mutually respectful relationship between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal peoples in this country. In order for that to happen, there has to be awareness of the past, an acknowledgement of the harm that has been inflicted, atonement for the causes, and action to change behaviour.”

If they're fine with a superficial kind of reconciliation that's basically just another Jim Crow law, then that's what they'll get: a bunch of government and business reps parroting the "unceded lands" speech and mangling the name, while everybody else near-completely ignores that and calls the place "Art Gallery Square." If they want a reconciliation that involves appreciation and acceptance of their culture by the city, then it kinda sucks, but it would help if it was "S'tlaneq Hwtl'enk" or something that can be read/spelled/spoken with a QWERTY keyboard; same reason for Pinyin or Romanji, and why Russian hockey players don't have Cyrillic on their jerseys.

The degree to which we fulfill the aspirations of reconciliation has far more to do with how much non-indigenous people in this country are ready to face reality. I would assume that indigenous people are utterly exhausted by superficial gestures alone. The fact that non-indigenous people resist even those superficial gestures is symptomatic of the greater resistance to true reconciliation. These discussions probably infuriate them. Privileged non-indigenous people get to discuss ad nauseam whether or not they are entitled to rights, whether or not their written language has equal value, whether or not WE shall bestow upon them the grace of our understanding. Meanwhile, nothing changes, indigenous people suffer, and we go on living in our comfortable bubbles.

I was on the 14 Hastings bus today. The pressing need for reconciliation for me is represented by the two drug-addicted indigenous women sitting across from me with generations of trauma written all over their face. It’s too painful for me to look them in the eyes. They are in a living hell. One of them looks at me with a kind of frustrated hatred. I would hate me too if I were her. I’m chatting with my friend, with my new iPhone, and my bag full of Gourmet Warehouse goodies. I am trying to live my best bourgeois life. I don’t want to be on the bus with them. I want to be free of having to even vicariously experience their pain. I am a horrible person in a horrible world. I feel guilty. I should feel guilty. I should care. I do care. I want things to change.

[trofirhen]

It depends on what the First Nations want, I suppose. Reconciliation is supposed to be about “establishing and maintaining a mutually respectful relationship between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal peoples in this country. In order for that to happen, there has to be awareness of the past, an acknowledgement of the harm that has been inflicted, atonement for the causes, and action to change behaviour.”

If they're fine with a superficial kind of reconciliation that's basically just another Jim Crow law, then that's what they'll get: a bunch of government and business reps parroting the "unceded lands" speech and mangling the name, while everybody else near-completely ignores that and calls the place "Art Gallery Square." If they want a reconciliation that involves appreciation and acceptance of their culture by the city, then it kinda sucks, but it would help if it was "S'tlaneq Hwtl'enk" or something that can be read/spelled/spoken with a QWERTY keyboard; same reason for Pinyin or Romanji, and why Russian hockey players don't have Cyrillic on their jerseys.

The degree to which we fulfill the aspirations of reconciliation has far more to do with how much non-indigenous people in this country are ready to face reality. I would assume that indigenous people are utterly exhausted by superficial gestures alone. The fact that non-indigenous people resist even those superficial gestures is symptomatic of the greater resistance to true reconciliation. These discussions probably infuriate them. Privileged non-indigenous people get to discuss ad nauseam whether or not they are entitled to rights, whether or not their written language has equal value, whether or not WE shall bestow upon them the grace of our understanding. Meanwhile, nothing changes, indigenous people suffer, and we go on living in our comfortable bubbles.

I was on the 14 Hastings bus today. The pressing need for reconciliation for me is represented by the two drug-addicted indigenous women sitting across from me with generations of trauma written all over their face. It’s too painful for me to look them in the eyes. They are in a living hell. One of them looks at me with a kind of frustrated hatred. I would hate me too if I were her. I’m chatting with my friend, with my new iPhone, and my bag full of Gourmet Warehouse goodies. I am trying to live my best bourgeois life. I don’t want to be on the bus with them. I want to be free of having to even vicariously experience their pain. I am a horrible person in a horrible world. I feel guilty. I should feel guilty. I should care. I do care. I want things to change.
We're talking about two overlapping things here, some of which are relevant to each other, some which may not be.
The first thing historic and sociological: while it seems to be agreed that the life and lot of the First Nations took a blow with the advent of Europeans and western lifestyle, that's true.
And what dreambrother808 talks about is tragic, and yes, stems from First Nations people living a life in a world alien to them and indifferent to them, one imposed upon them.
However, what Migrant seems to say, and what S211 seems to say is that the First Nations writing sytem is too unfamiliar for modern life, and is confusing and strange, that's all.
It (the aboriginal alphabet) makes it all that much harder to pronounce the name of the square, let alone write it.
Again, I think that the gesture to rename the square as if it were part of the First People's land (and in effect is, still) was a well-meant gesture of respect and appreciation.
And that the First Nations people, having had their traditional life upended by Europeans, and relegated to an often "second class" status (poverty, alcoholism, crime) is a tragedy. Agreed.
However, getting back to topic, it's simply the (for most) unfathomable alphabet and concommitant pronunciation and writing that are the heart of this specific issue.
I am speaking to that, while still acknowledging the tragic impact colonialisation has had on indigenous people, which is often horrific and needs to be addressed further.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The degree to which we fulfill the aspirations of reconciliation has far more to do with how much non-indigenous people in this country are ready to face reality. I would assume that indigenous people are utterly exhausted by superficial gestures alone. The fact that non-indigenous people resist even those superficial gestures is symptomatic of the greater resistance to true reconciliation. These discussions probably infuriate them. Privileged non-indigenous people get to discuss ad nauseam whether or not they are entitled to rights, whether or not their written language has equal value, whether or not WE shall bestow upon them the grace of our understanding. Meanwhile, nothing changes, indigenous people suffer, and we go on living in our comfortable bubbles.

I was on the 14 Hastings bus today. The pressing need for reconciliation for me is represented by the two drug-addicted indigenous women sitting across from me with generations of trauma written all over their face. It’s too painful for me to look them in the eyes. They are in a living hell. One of them looks at me with a kind of frustrated hatred. I would hate me too if I were her. I’m chatting with my friend, with my new iPhone, and my bag full of Gourmet Warehouse goodies. I am trying to live my best bourgeois life. I don’t want to be on the bus with them. I want to be free of having to even vicariously experience their pain. I am a horrible person in a horrible world. I feel guilty. I should feel guilty. I should care. I do care. I want things to change.

You mean the written language that was invented by two white anthropologists a generation ago, based on "research" from other white anthropologists a generation before them? Even their existing alphabet is whatever the settlers want it to be; I doubt they're truly happy with that one either.

It's not "resistance," it's frustration stemming from a genuine willingness on our part to learn, which is being limited by outdated phonetics. Same reason we don't say Peking or Nanking unless we're talking about the roast duck or the massacre, respectively.

Speaking of the Chinese, the British drugged them with opium in order to swindled them out of their tea and their islands, then blew up their fleet when they put their foot down. My parents' island does not have a happy memory of them.
The Indians had to give away the products of their labour effectively for free and ended up with a famine, had their people shot over and over again just for protesting, and had their people partitioned in a way that makes them fight over it decades after the fact.
Japan had their ports forced open at gunpoint, then were served unequal treaty terms over and over again, then had two nukes dropped on them.
The Middle East was repeatedly partitioned and their lawful governments overthrown. South America was screwed by European tycoons and lost most of its culture. Africa got all of the above, plus slavery and Belgium. Then there's Hawaii.

Flash forward a couple centuries later, all their stuff is Romanized. Why? Because like it or not, no matter how much they got screwed by the colonizers, that's the international alphabet now. Not the white man's alphabet, everybody's alphabet. Life's a complete and utter bitch sometimes.

Acknowledging and atoning for the past needs to happen. Four out of five Canadians support this, as do I. It would be best served by enforcing existing treaties, enabling the tribes to develop their own resources in a way that they're happy with,* giving them more autonomy over their own lives and societies, and improving the horrible situations on many reserves - the big ticket items that they, you and I want for them. Changing a few names to be more easily read by an eagerly inclusive Metro Vancouver does not prohibit nor detract from that.

*Pipelines, dams and development not included - some tribes are completely in favour of those.

[dreambrother808]

You mean the written language that was invented by two white anthropologists a generation ago, based on "research" from other white anthropologists a generation before them? Even their existing alphabet is whatever the settlers want it to be; I doubt they're truly happy with that one either.

It's not "resistance," it's frustration stemming from a genuine willingness on our part to learn, which is being limited by outdated phonetics. Same reason we don't say Peking or Nanking unless we're talking about the roast duck or the massacre, respectively.

Speaking of the Chinese, the British drugged them with opium in order to swindled them out of their tea and their islands, then blew up their fleet when they put their foot down. My parents' island does not have a happy memory of them.
The Indians had to give away the products of their labour effectively for free and ended up with a famine, had their people shot over and over again just for protesting, and had their people partitioned in a way that makes them fight over it decades after the fact.
Japan had their ports forced open at gunpoint, then were served unequal treaty terms over and over again, then had two nukes dropped on them.
The Middle East was repeatedly partitioned and their lawful governments overthrown. South America was screwed by European tycoons and lost most of its culture. Africa got all of the above, plus slavery and Belgium. Then there's Hawaii.

Flash forward a couple centuries later, all their stuff is Romanized. Why? Because like it or not, no matter how much they got screwed by the colonizers, that's the international alphabet now. Not the white man's alphabet, everybody's alphabet. Life's a complete and utter bitch sometimes.

Acknowledging and atoning for the past needs to happen. Four out of five Canadians support this, as do I. It would be best served by enforcing existing treaties, enabling the tribes to develop their own resources in a way that they're happy with,* giving them more autonomy over their own lives and societies, and improving the horrible situations on many reserves - the big ticket items that they, you and I want for them. Changing a few names to be more easily read by an eagerly inclusive Metro Vancouver does not prohibit nor detract from that.

*Pipelines, dams and development not included - some tribes are completely in favour of those.

You may not be resistant but there is resistance and the situations on reserves and for survivors elsewhere are not changing enough as federal voters continue to place the majority of their votes behind a party who couldn’t care less (the cons) and a party that pretends to care more than they actually do (the libs). This language debate is used to surreptitiously telegraph racist or culturally superior feelings many do not feel comfortable publicly exposing. I am not accusing you of doing that. Your points are persuasive and valid but alternately I think the writing system also presents something culturally unique to our region. Nevertheless, the debate itself puts focus on an aspect of indigenous-settler relations that is inconsequential compared to more salient suffering.

[Migrant_Coconut]

You may not be resistant but there is resistance and the situations on reserves and for survivors elsewhere are not changing enough as federal voters continue to place the majority of their votes behind a party who couldn’t care less (the cons) and a party that pretends to care more than they actually do (the libs). This language debate is used to surreptitiously telegraph racist or culturally superior feelings many do not feel comfortable publicly exposing. I am not accusing you of doing that. Your points are persuasive and valid but alternately I think the writing system also presents something culturally unique to our region. Nevertheless, the debate itself puts focus on an aspect of indigenous-settler relations that is inconsequential compared to more salient suffering.

Yeah, the reserves are getting royally screwed by both major parties right now. Then again, I don't see the NDP or Greens stepping up to the plate.

Never said you were - just observing that A) it's not just the First Nations that're going through postcolonialism, and B) while you're completely right about the blind xenophobia attached to the controversy, there's also a few legitimate points; as with both sides of the affordable housing argument, it seems entirely possible to separate the constructive dissenters from the haters, then act accordingly.

Your points are persuasive and valid but alternately I think the writing system also presents something culturally unique to our region. Nevertheless, the debate itself puts focus on an aspect of indigenous-settler relations that is inconsequential compared to more salient suffering.

Heh, it's unique alright. I'll be the first to admit that Romanizing Coast Salish dialects would reek of Disneyfication if mishandled, but it's not like they're centuries-old writing systems like Cyrillic or Arabic; indigenous languages are oral-only and so have to piggyback on the Latin alphabet. Maori, Swahili, Algoquian, they mostly use the 26 standard letters and apostroples and are easily made part of society - most of Alaska supported Mount Denali's renaming - but start throwing forests of Ws and Zs and unfamiliar characters and numbers in, and feathers understandably get ruffled and not just the racists'. Maybe it's the First World privilege talking, but I'd argue that the language is unique even without the macros.

Don't see how it distracts from bigger issues, though. A government that actually gave a rat's ass would be able to solve those at the same time as the renaming, voter apathy/ignorance be damned.

[Vin]

You may not be resistant but there is resistance and the situations on reserves and for survivors elsewhere are not changing enough as federal voters continue to place the majority of their votes behind a party who couldn’t care less (the cons) and a party that pretends to care more than they actually do (the libs). This language debate is used to surreptitiously telegraph racist or culturally superior feelings many do not feel comfortable publicly exposing. I am not accusing you of doing that. Your points are persuasive and valid but alternately I think the writing system also presents something culturally unique to our region. Nevertheless, the debate itself puts focus on an aspect of indigenous-settler relations that is inconsequential compared to more salient suffering.

I'm totally fine with that. I was laughing not because of the use of the native alphabets per se, but how they would expect people to remember the names of those places by using something so unfamiliar to most people. For instance, "Let's meet at .............., hmm, nevermind, the public square, you know, the one beside the Art Gallery." That sort of defeats the original purpose to honour and remember, doesn't it?

I would suggest putting the romanized version underneath those scripts for those not in the know (and I'm sure 99% of the population would be) like the lay-person I am. That would perhaps spark more interest for people to find out more about what it means.

[LeftCoaster]

South square revisions happening this winter:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/robson-plaza-closes-as-construction-on-permanent-space-begins-1.4594880

[officedweller]

Fencing is going up and it does look like people will have to detour all the way to Georgia St. (north side detour),
cut through the VAG lobby, or via the plaza passage near the lowest waterfall past the red spring sculpture (south side detour).

Pic by me today - blue fencing circled in red.
There are currently gaps in the Howe and Hornby fences.
Shortest detour in orange.

Side note - the trees on Robson look much healthier than those on Howe & Hornby.
The ones around the main plaza probably got fresh soil when the membrane was replaced several years ago, so those are looking good.

https://i.imgur.com/cXXpVsQ.jpg

[mcminsen]

Sept.16 '19, my pics
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/h1nfl4.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmh1nfl4j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/0xPenA.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/po0xPenAj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/xE6zLA.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plxE6zLAj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/hwuS7N.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnhwuS7Nj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/X21h0q.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poX21h0qj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/nrMCDS.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnnrMCDSj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/0fAp2p.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn0fAp2pj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/uVXVhW.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pluVXVhWj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/cHUkwN.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmcHUkwNj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/ABEpPZ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plABEpPZj)

[mcminsen]

Sept.16 '19, my pics
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/D52S6Z.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmD52S6Zj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/8AqRpm.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pl8AqRpmj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/YHXE5M.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plYHXE5Mj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/t37kzb.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnt37kzbj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/L1FLda.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plL1FLdaj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/922/I79EVY.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmI79EVYj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/zGoL9v.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnzGoL9vj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/yhfByA.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poyhfByAj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/5TxSwt.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn5TxSwtj)

[Tysonbrown]

Please...just do it right this time folks.

[officedweller]

UGH.
Maybe this is to direct people to use City sidewalks instead of crossing Provincially-owned Robson Square where I noted above?
Maybe my path noted above has a couple of steps, so is not handicapped accessible?

Sept.16 '19, my pics

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/923/0fAp2p.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn0fAp2pj)

[CivicBlues]

UGH.
Maybe this is to direct people to use City sidewalks instead of crossing Provincially-owned Robson Square where I noted above?
Maybe my path noted above has a couple of steps, so is not handicapped accessible?

Lol I can imagine Tourists looking at that sign wondering who fell asleep at the keyboard when they were typing out the name of the plaza north of the art gallery.

[s211]

Lol I can imagine Tourists looking at that sign wondering who fell asleep at the keyboard when they were typing out the name of the plaza north of the art gallery.

I thought EXACTLY the same, but hey I guess that what qualifies as de-colonization these days. Yes, that's apparently a thing now. Turns out that reconciliation wasn't enough: no end game.:rolleyes:

[Migrant_Coconut]

I still think S'tlaneq Hwtl'enk Square would solve a lot of problems.

[dreambrother808]

I thought EXACTLY the same, but hey I guess that what qualifies as de-colonization these days. Yes, that's apparently a thing now. Turns out that reconciliation wasn't enough: no end game.:rolleyes:

There’s definitely no end game to what was largely a symbolic process on the Liberals’ part. The cultural change needed in this country with regard to indigenous issues has just scratched the surface.

[trofirhen]

This renaming of places into aboriginal language is IMO Politically Correct tokenism. It may be a "feel good" experience for those who want to right past wrongs.
However, it does not address First Nations people's deeper problems; shorter life expecatancy, unemployment, rampant alcoholism (methyl alcohol turning people blind), domestic abuse, inability to adjust to city life, .... the list goes on.
Quaint, indigenous alphabets and names for city squares, the renaming of mountains and geographic features, are all fine and dandy, but do not touch the underlying malaise.
Radical, and no doubt costlier measures have to be taken to improve the quality of life for First Nations people. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[connect2source]

I suspect this project will have a negative effect on winter foot traffic from Pacific Centre to Robson and will likely hurt Robson retailers until the project in complete. People just won't bother with a lengthy detour especially during bad weather.

[lokyin]

They really should've done more witTh this project than just this sliver of an area. The area to the south needs to be activated, it's barely used and inconvenient.

[trofirhen]

They really should've done more witTh this project than just this sliver of an area. The area to the south needs to be activated, it's barely used and inconvenient.
I don't disagree with you, but am curious as to what facilities and features you would like to see put into it to animate it and enliven it, to make it more vital.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

They really should've done more witTh this project than just this sliver of an area. The area to the south needs to be activated, it's barely used and inconvenient.

1, it isn't up to the City, 2 it is a courthouse, what do you want?

[officedweller]

Pic by me today - asphalt ripped up - lane marking still in tact!

https://i.imgur.com/pV5LNaN.jpg

[Vin]

I suspect this project will have a negative effect on winter foot traffic from Pacific Centre to Robson and will likely hurt Robson retailers until the project in complete. People just won't bother with a lengthy detour especially during bad weather.

There is a shorter detour: go south through the waterfalls and the law court building courtyard. Not sure why that isn't recommended as another option.

[officedweller]

There is a shorter detour: go south through the waterfalls and the law court building courtyard. Not sure why that isn't recommended as another option.

Yup, very strange and agreed that going to Georgia will probably divert a lot of people away from continuing on Robson.
- see the orange line on my post at the top of this page.

The Robson St. Business Association should be all over the City to change thate signage..... but are they?
https://robsonstreet.ca/

[Migrant_Coconut]

I take it the rink'll be closed too?

[Metro-One]

I’m sorry, but if they aren’t going to use phonetics that the general population can read / pronounce for the new name, it will remain Robson Square for most for a very long time.