Royal Connaught Hotel | ? | 36 fl, 33 fl, 24 fl & 13 fl | U/C

[hammergirl]

Enough with the coffee...how about a Teaopia?
www.teaopia.ca

Just got a copy of Biz Magazine at work and one of the cover articles is about Harry and his plans for "Downtown Turnaround". I haven't had a chance to read it yet but as my boss doesn't read these magazines, it will be coming home with me. I'll post highlights.

[FairHamilton]

Harry did mention a few places like HHS employees, McMaster, commuters at GO Station, etc. I wouldn't be surprised Harry blast the place with ads for the condos.

All things any of us could throw out there.

But really leave that kind of market research to Judy Marsales, it's her job to sell the condos. She knows this city and the region inside out.

Market research is done prior to the formulation of a proposal, not once they go on sale. And is usually performed by specialized market research firms, not real estate agents.

Guys, come on. He's quoted in the original release as saying he has no idea if there's a market for condo's; "“The elephant in the room is will anybody buy these? I can’t say that for sure,” he said."

Market research is what tells you if there's a market, or not.

I'll reiterate that I hope he's successful, but I have my doubts. Especially since I have yet to see anything I couldn't throw together on my laptop.

[FairHamilton]

true...although it COULD be research if we had any new condo towers to sell all those people that are calling.

Market research is done by specialized firms that employ techniques such as demographic studies, income distribution studies, phone and in-person polls & interviews, focus groups, etc.

It could be argured no condo towers exist because other developers did their market research and found no need/demand.............

I'm not trying to be negative, just pointing out 'holes'. Every project should have 'a devil's advocate' to push others to dig deeper.

[flar]

Market research can't be done because Stinson is speculating on demand resulting from several other things coming together over the next few years. Some of the things that could create demand for these condos are assured: there will be many more white collar jobs in Hamilton over the next 3-4 years, there will be better GO service, the population will age. Some of the demand drivers may or may not happen: greenbelt could cause intensification, house prices could continue to rise, LRT could be built, downtown could revitalize.

He's gambling, but if all this happens he'll be just in time to capitalize on it.

[raisethehammer]

I suppose he'll build something, and depending on how the market is responding will determine whether he tops out at 50 floors or 100.
I just hope that the friggin hotel is actually renovated as proposed sooner than later.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Agreed RTH--get the Connaught up and running and I'm fine with whatever happens after that...if the tower goes up, all the better.

We're all for Starbucks here now, are we? I can keep up with what's vogue and what's not anymore--one week Starbucks is evil, the next week Tim's is evil. Hortons, for the record, has plenty of urban non-drivethru location--have you been through the Financial District in Toronto recently?

realcity - seriously man, be an adult for once.

[FairHamilton]

Market research can't be done because Stinson is speculating on demand resulting from several other things coming together over the next few years. Some of the things that could create demand for these condos are assured: there will be many more white collar jobs in Hamilton over the next 3-4 years, there will be better GO service, the population will age. Some of the demand drivers may or may not happen: greenbelt could cause intensification, house prices could continue to rise, LRT could be built, downtown could revitalize.

He's gambling, but if all this happens he'll be just in time to capitalize on it.

B.S. (I'm using acronyms so not to get fined) market research can't be done. Market research can always be done and is an important part of any business plan.

Flar, I agree with many of your points. I'm not dismissing them, but I've have yet to see evidence of any solid market research to back up the grandiose plans. All I've seen it the spewing of generally available public information, GO link to Toronto, new jobs coming downtown, under-developed downtown, blah, blah, blah. All of which I could have typed up on my laptop, and put out as a vision.

You mention he's gambling. Just so everyone remembers gambler's often lose, and that's because the odd's are always in the house's favour.

[flar]

He could obviously do market research but it would be a waste of time and money because of all the unknowns, they would just tell him what's already known. Bottom line is he's betting all these things will come together. If they don't, it's not even much of a gamble because he doesn't have to build the tower.

[Goldfinger]

You mention he's gambling. Just so everyone remembers gambler's often lose, and that's because the odd's are always in the house's favour.

Remember that he is not gambling with his own money. Even the $100K deposit on the Connnaught belongs to his "investors". I can tell you with 100% certainty that there is no lender in the world that would bankroll the pyramid project, and I don't think Harry can put that kind of cash together.

If people are stupid enough to back this guy with his track record, then they deserve what's coming to them.

[Janbe]

Let the man do this project. What are you complaining about? This is the best news Hamilton ever had, finally someone see the potential that Hamilton has.

[raisethehammer]

Agreed RTH--get the Connaught up and running and I'm fine with whatever happens after that...if the tower goes up, all the better.

We're all for Starbucks here now, are we? I can keep up with what's vogue and what's not anymore--one week Starbucks is evil, the next week Tim's is evil. Hortons, for the record, has plenty of urban non-drivethru location--have you been through the Financial District in Toronto recently?

realcity - seriously man, be an adult for once.


both are still evil. don't worry. haha.

ps...don't be dissing realcity. he might be the best poster on here! I always look forward to reading a comment when I see that he was the last poster.

[raisethehammer]

Remember that he is not gambling with his own money. Even the $100K deposit on the Connnaught belongs to his "investors". I can tell you with 100% certainty that there is no lender in the world that would bankroll the pyramid project, and I don't think Harry can put that kind of cash together.

If people are stupid enough to back this guy with his track record, then they deserve what's coming to them.


100% certainty eh?? Did a drywall friend tell you that?
Is that 100% certain the same way BCTed said we were all nuts for dreaming about a 60 storey tower and that he was 100% certain it would never happen??

[FairHamilton]

He could obviously do market research but it would be a waste of time and money because of all the unknowns, they would just tell him what's already known. Bottom line is he's betting all these things will come together. If they don't, it's not even much of a gamble because he doesn't have to build the tower.

Yah, but any investor worth their salt would want to see the biz plan with detailed market research. Especially in an unproven market.

Well there's always the old adage, there's a sucker born every minute. With population growth since that statememt was first made there's probably 100's.......

[Millstone]

100% certainty eh?? Did a drywall friend tell you that?
Is that 100% certain the same way BCTed said we were all nuts for dreaming about a 60 storey tower and that he was 100% certain it would never happen??

Stop. Posting.

[raisethehammer]

Stop. Posting.

Why?? If someone is going to call me nuts for even thinking about a 60- storey tower and then we start seeing plans for a 100-storey tower I'll most certainly post about it.
I was the first one on here to suggest (to much laughter by some of you) that Stinson is going to attempt another 1KW in the Hammer with either Lister or Connaught.
You can be guarunteed that if this project fails and I'm wrong, BC Ted and the rest of you naysayers will come on here to remind me of what I said.
Fair enough.

If that happens, I can promise you that I'll at least be man enough to take it, and not come on here saying "Stop posting" like some little suck.

[raisethehammer]

if any of you guys are good at photoshoping, how about a nice skyline shot with this new tower?

Also, check this out:

http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=London%20Bridge%20tower&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

It's almost identical!!

[thistleclub]

Also, check this out:

http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=London%20Bridge%20tower&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

It's almost identical!!

Even the sales pitch is similar. Compare "Every city needs an icon" to "The Shard London Bridge… will become a symbol of the capital that is recognizable throughout the world."

http://www.shardlondonbridge.com

The Shard is resolutely mixed use, though... 28 storeys of office space, 18 hotel, 12 residential.

[raisethehammer]

good find..."every city needs an icon".
Let's just hope that too many don't go for the pointy pyramid or we'll all look like idiots! haha.

[BCTed]

100% certainty eh?? Did a drywall friend tell you that?
Is that 100% certain the same way BCTed said we were all nuts for dreaming about a 60 storey tower and that he was 100% certain it would never happen??

I never say that I am 100% certain about anything, simply because I am not 100% certain about anything. I said that you could bet that it would never happen, and I am willing to take the very safe bet that a 60 story tower does not happen.

[raisethehammer]

I never say that I am 100% certain about anything, simply because I am not 100% certain about anything. I said that you could bet that it would never happen, and I am willing to take the very safe bet that a 60 story tower does not happen.

you might end up being right on that one after all. Looks like it'll be closer to 80-100 stories.

[BCTed]

Why?? If someone is going to call me nuts for even thinking about a 60- storey tower and then we start seeing plans for a 100-storey tower I'll most certainly post about it.
I was the first one on here to suggest (to much laughter by some of you) that Stinson is going to attempt another 1KW in the Hammer with either Lister or Connaught.
You can be guarunteed that if this project fails and I'm wrong, BC Ted and the rest of you naysayers will come on here to remind me of what I said.
Fair enough.

If that happens, I can promise you that I'll at least be man enough to take it, and not come on here saying "Stop posting" like some little suck.

I already conceded some time back that you were no longer the only one talking about an unrealistically tall building, but those are some pretty sketchy "plans" for a 100-story tower. Get back to me when construction workers are on floor 50.

[BCTed]

you might end up being right on that one after all. Looks like it'll be closer to 80-100 stories.

Wanna bet?

[raisethehammer]

sure... lunch in the new cafe at the NW corner of the Connaught.

[BCTed]

Gentlemen's bet. If Harry Stinson has constructed a building with 60 or more stories in Hamilton by January 1, 2014, you win. Otherwise, I win.

[matt602]

Assuming that we're all still having at eachother's throats on SSP in 6 years :)

[FairHamilton]

you might end up being right on that one after all. Looks like it'll be closer to 80-100 stories.

I'm willing to take the bet that won't happen either, and I'm always in for a free lunch.

[thistleclub]

good find..."every city needs an icon".
Let's just hope that too many don't go for the pointy pyramid or we'll all look like idiots! haha.

To be fair, not really a sales pitch so much as Stinson's only words on the new project (as quoted in the Spec, at least). And if you're going to invite comparison to an architect, they may as well be a Pritzker winner.

[raisethehammer]

Gentlemen's bet. If Harry Stinson has constructed a building with 60 or more stories in Hamilton by January 1, 2014, you win. Otherwise, I win.

sounds good, but I'd like to make one change.
My bet doesn't hinge on Stinson (what if he dies next week?).
My bet hinges on a 60-storey tower being built at the Connaught site.

Of course, by 2014 we'll have forgotten about this entirely, but hey, let's do it.

[BCTed]

sounds good, but I'd like to make one change.
My bet doesn't hinge on Stinson (what if he dies next week?).
My bet hinges on a 60-storey tower being built at the Connaught site.

Of course, by 2014 we'll have forgotten about this entirely, but hey, let's do it.

My bet is all about Harry Stinson, but I guess his involvement is largely irrelevant given that no 60 story tower will be built on the Connaught site. Tell you what: let's change terms to a tower initiated by Harry Stinson and change the location to anywhere in Hamilton.

New Terms: If a 60 story or higher building initiated by Harry Stinson is constructed ANYWHERE in Hamilton by January 1, 2014, you win. Otherwise, I win.

[BCTed]

By the by, this $180 million total cost for the entire project (Connaught+tower) sounds insanely low. The original pricetag for the Trump tower in Toronto was $550 million and I cannot think of anything of the scale of the Connaught project that would be anywhere in the $180MM range.

[DC83]

Hey Ted, how come you only ever post on things you can easily shoot down? Like, how come you don't ever post on things like RT/LRT, or London Tap House, or the new (super successful) Eastgate Transit Terminal, etc?

I'm just curious as tho why you're on this forum unless it's to specifially sh*t on everything?

Here's a good thread you should take a look at:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=151668
... specifically the highlighted portion. You might have a change of heart :)

[BCTed]

Hey Ted, how come you only ever post on things you can easily shoot down? Like, how come you don't ever post on things like RT/LRT, or London Tap House, or the new (super successful) Eastgate Transit Terminal, etc?

I'm just curious as tho why you're on this forum unless it's to specifially sh*t on everything?

Here's a good thread you should take a look at:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=151668
... specifically the highlighted portion. You might have a change of heart :)

I am free to pick and choose what I write when I want to write it. I pick on Harry Stinson a lot because I do not believe in Harry Stinson and because I cannot stand to see people on here act as if Willy Wonka came along and gave the city a golden ticket. Other people gripe "only in Hamilton", complain about communities within and near the city, complain about the newspaper, complain about people that write to the newspaper, complain about the TV station, complain about local politicians, complain about city staff, complain about local developers, et cetera, et cetera. I do not do any of that.

I don't have to discuss any of those other items if I do not feel like it. I am unsure about LRT. I like the look of the London Tap House so far and am looking forward to checking it out.

Do you really expect me to provide comments about the re-shuffling of the Eastgate parking lot? "Super successful" --- what does that even mean?? It really should not be considered anything other than a miniscule blip on the radar. All the same, back in the winter, I mentioned that the canopy looks nice, but does not offer any protection from the elements --- I would prefer to see something that offers protection from wind and rain.

If the Eastgate bus stop (which was set up a while back) and a local watering hole make up two of your three big non-Stinson discussion items, then I have nothing non-Stinson to discuss.

[Millstone]

ICE BURN

[DC83]

I don't have to discuss any of those other items if I do not feel like it. I am unsure about LRT. I like the look of the London Tap House so far and am looking forward to checking it out.

Sweet! Hopefully we can all enjoy a pitcher up on that roof soon!

If you're unsure about LRT, you should def attend one of the (many) meetings! They're actually very informative (I was even surprised, and learned more on a subject I thought I was well researched on).

[Millstone]

Wish Harry put up a website, I've been checking www.royalconnaught.com and still blank. Perhaps it'll go up on June 1?

Somehow, nobody registered them yet. I snagged royalconnaught.com (http://royalconnaught.com) and royalconnaughthotel.com (http://royalconnaughthotel.com) so you should see something there now.

Just doing my part to make sure some dumbass squatter doesn't steal the name.

[oldcoote]

Somehow, nobody registered them yet. I snagged royalconnaught.com (http://royalconnaught.com) and royalconnaughthotel.com (http://royalconnaughthotel.com) so you should see something there now.

Just doing my part to make sure some dumbass squatter doesn't steal the name.

Are you 10 or just suffering from a chemical imbalance?

[DC83]

^^ No, he's saving the domain name from domain pirates who'll charge WAY too much b/c they know the name is in demand.

There are some celebrities out there that can't even use their name (= their brand) as their website b/c domain pirates snag the domain name, then try and extort a rediculous amount of $$$$$ from them for these domain names.

[matt602]

A chemical imbalance called "humor". Not all people have it.

[oldcoote]

^^ No, he's saving the domain name from domain pirates who'll charge WAY too much b/c they know the name is in demand.

There are some celebrities out there that can't even use their name (= their brand) to as their website b/c domain pirates snag the domain, then try and extort $$$$$$$ from these celebrities for these domain names.

Ahhh, my apologies Millstone. I failed to see the "at face value" addendum. Good on you. :tup:

[SteelTown]

Has anyone emailed to info@royalconnaught.com?

[DC83]

Has anyone emailed to info@royalconnaught.com?

hahaha Should we be? Wouldn't it just go to Millstone?

[Millstone]

hahaha Should we be? Wouldn't it just go to Millstone?

shh, don't give it away.

[SteelTown]

Look at the email address provided in this article ...

http://fox.memoryfire.com/ssp/con2.jpg

info@royalconnaught.com

[itsbryan]

It's a little known fact that Millstone is indeed Harry Stinson.

[Millstone]

It's a little known fact that Millstone is indeed Harry Stinson.
Yes. :runaway:

But in any event, it wouldn't have worked anyway. Somebody forgot to register the domain when they gave that email address out.

[BCTed]

Ahhh, my apologies Millstone. I failed to see the "at face value" addendum. Good on you. :tup:

Why set it at face value if you actually believe that it is worth more? The Royal Connaught project, however good a cause you may consider it, is a work of capitalism, not one of charity.

[chris k]

Why set it at face value if you actually believe that it is worth more? The Royal Connaught project, however good a cause you may consider it, is a work of capitalism, not one of charity.

But it is benefitting our city, the one we want to thrive.
We want to see this project be successful. Why would we give him a problem of securing a notable URL for the benefit of making a quick buck. It would only cause a problem for Harry. Millstone has nothing to lose....

[Millstone]

Why set it at face value if you actually believe that it is worth more? The Royal Connaught project, however good a cause you may consider it, is a work of capitalism, not one of charity.

I understand your point, but for one thing it would end up a legal issue. The other is I don't want to be a cybersquatting asshole.

[ryan_mcgreal]

I just received this notice from the Chamber of Commerce:


Special Advance Notice: Harry Stinson Presentation - "Connaught" project - Monday June 2/08 6:00 to 8:00 PM

Dear Chamber members and other community leaders:

Harry Stinson has requested to do a special personal public presentation
here at the Chamber (Waterfront Centre) as above to any interested Chamber
members, as well as any interested members of the general public about his
planned project for the Downtown.

There may be a formal notice invitation coming later; but in the interim, as
time is marching on, if you are interested in hearing directly from Harry in
this important project, I do suggest that you put this into your calendar
right now.

This briefing will be fully open to the public at no charge, so please feel
free to pass this along to anyone whom you feel may be interested.

Hope to see you then.

R. John Dolbec
Chief Executive Officer
Hamilton Chamber of Commerce

[raisethehammer]

wahooo! I'll be there for sure.

[SteelTown]

Oh ohhh this would be the perfect opportunity for a Hamilton forum meet! Pop over London Tap House for dinner and check out Harry's project afterwards.

What you guys think?

[raisethehammer]

I can't do the dinner part...already have a jammed sched monday, but I will make room for at least 30-60 minutes of Stinson.

[matt602]

I should be there.

[Jon Dalton]

That's awesome that the public are invited. I intend to show up, just like that doors open thing but it's after work so guaranteed I'll be awake. I've been watching the spec lately and hearing alot of talk generally about this project and find most people lack the cynicism found on this board. People seem to take it at face value.

[Millstone]

LTH + Connaught = win

[DC83]

Did anyone else get the Connaught package emailed to them?
I'm trying to get a link but it's not working.

[ihateittoo]

I walked by the sales office at 1 am on tuesday and Harry was in there working... dediiication. Well actually he could have been just surfing the net but either way I was impressed.

[matt602]

That's a bit weird to be honest.

[Jon Dalton]

You realize if this project tanks he's completely F'd for the development business. You might see him working in Harvest Burger next.

[SteelTown]

Today I visited the sales office. Saw Harry in there. The layouts are amazing, there is a map of all the floorplans with red dots indicating 'sold' units, about a dozen in the renovated hotel bldg so far are sold. Not selling the Tower units yet.

So on average they are selling one unit per day, which isn't bad considering he doesn't even own the Connaught yet. I suspect the number of units being sold will go quicker once it's confirmed that Stinson officially owns the building.

Considering that another wing will be added to the Connaught (facing John St) we will probably see demo and a crane going up. Plus major digging action happening to create 1,000 underground parking spaces at the corner of Main and Catherine.

[raisethehammer]

yea, I spoke with someone involved yesterday and they said some buyers and investors are waiting until he actually owns the place before buying.
They expect the pace to increase once he closes at end of June.

I know a few folks who are waiting till then before heading to the sales office to check it out.

[realcity]

Did anyone else get the Connaught package emailed to them?
I'm trying to get a link but it's not working.

You can pick up a pocket folder package in the sales office. It doesn't contain anything we haven't already seen tho.

[realcity]

yea, I spoke with someone involved yesterday and they said some buyers and investors are waiting until he actually owns the place before buying.
They expect the pace to increase once he closes at end of June.

I know a few folks who are waiting till then before heading to the sales office to check it out.

Is LIUNA dragging their feet on the purchase? because they look like losers?

[raisethehammer]

no, I mean potential buyers of condo units are holding off until Harry actually owns the building.
His deal closes at the end of June. Expect sales to pick up come July/August and especially into the fall months.

[thistleclub]

There was talk about installing French doors and wrought iron balconies on the Connaught (you can sort of see them on the building's north face in the CAD drawing on the website), which was explained as restoring a feature that that been replaced out of a desire for energy savings. That made me curious enough to look back through the local photo archives... and I can't find anything like that. From 1916 onward, I could find nothing of the sort except the familiar pair of ornamental balconies on the 1930s extention. Does anyone have an image of the RC with different windows... is this just a convenient way of introducing an attractive feature... or am I imagining this?

[raisethehammer]

so I popped into the sales office today and pretended I was interested in a unit.
I left very impressed AND quite uneasy.
Impressed by the design and layout of the units (Chateau Royale could have learned a thing or two from these guys) as well as building amenities, floor space, mixed-uses etc....

Harry was busy with a customer so I spoke with the other guy in there (forget his name).
An old lady came in looking to do her banking. We told her that the bank had closed down. Lol. Reminded me of Jerry Seinfeld's grandmother showing up at the old Chemical Bank.

Harry doesn't own the building, so they can't sell units yet. They are just taking reservations and $5,000 deposits. Deposits are held by Scarfone-Hawkins and repaid in full if he doesn't secure the deal.
If he does secure the building, they will call the reserved owners and have them come in to sign a purchase agreement or take their money and leave.
Then they will start selling units.
I asked him 3 times during the conversation if it looked likely that Harry will be able to close the deal. All 3 times he said "we sure as heck hope so".
He said doing this 'reservation' thing is what will determine if the 'institutions' will finance him. If they feel the market demand is there, they will finance. If not enough reservations are taken, they won't. (the NHL might be the only organization in the world that ignores this basic market testing aka Hamilton Predators).

I know he's not going to tell me everything about Harry, but I would have liked a more confident response when I repeatedly asked about the likelihood of the deal closing.

He did tell me that if they fill the hotel building the tower will go ahead 100%. He said it'll be easy if the hotel sells out.

Here's hoping!!

2 weeks we'll find out.

[SteelTown]

If somehow Stinson didn't manage to close the deal by the end of the month, it'll likely be his fault. I highly doubt the current owners would reject a deal that would fatten their wallet by around $4 million, they bought it for around $4 million and Stinson is offering them around $9 million.

[Jon Dalton]

Harry said he expected to sell at least 100 units by the end of the month. There's a ways to go yet.

[flar]

If somehow Stinson didn't manage to close the deal by the end of the month, it'll likely be his fault. I highly doubt the current owners would reject a deal that would fatten their wallet by around $4 million, they bought it for around $4 million and Stinson is offering them around $9 million.

Yeah but Stinson needs to come up with $$ to close the deal. If he can't get the financing, he can't close the deal. Raisethehammer's post above makes it sound as if the financing isn't yet secured, and perhaps hinges on getting enough deposits for units.

[raisethehammer]

Yeah but Stinson needs to come up with $$ to close the deal. If he can't get the financing, he can't close the deal. Raisethehammer's post above makes it sound as if the financing isn't yet secured, and perhaps hinges on getting enough deposits for units.

that's exactly right. That's what they told me at the sales office. that's why they're trying to get reservations.

[BCTed]

Is LIUNA dragging their feet on the purchase? because they look like losers?

LIUNA?

[BCTed]

I asked him 3 times during the conversation if it looked likely that Harry will be able to close the deal. All 3 times he said "we sure as heck hope so".
He said doing this 'reservation' thing is what will determine if the 'institutions' will finance him. If they feel the market demand is there, they will finance. If not enough reservations are taken, they won't. (the NHL might be the only organization in the world that ignores this basic market testing aka Hamilton Predators).


Which institutions? Surely the banks would not give him the time of day.

You are probably much better off placing your energy and hopes into the Hamilton Predators or the Hamilton Thrashers or whatever. At least there is someone with credibility and dollars backing that dream.

[SteelTown]

LIUNA?

The current owners are.............

Tony Battaglia of Westpark Developments, a founder and former chair of TradePort, which runs Munro airport;
Enrico Mancinelli, retired LIUNA executive;
Ted Valeri of T. Valeri Construction;
Mario Frankovich, president of Burgeonvest Securities;
Oscar Kichi, owner of the Ramada Plaza hotel;
hotelier Mehran Koranki

[raisethehammer]

geez...we still have "contributors" on here who don't know who owns the building???

[BCTed]

geez...we still have "contributors" on here who don't know who owns the building???

Those people ought to be ashamed of themselves. Everyone knows that LIUNA owns the building.

[LikeHamilton]

The current owners are.............

Tony Battaglia of Westpark Developments, a founder and former chair of TradePort, which runs Munro airport;
Enrico Mancinelli, retired LIUNA executive;
Ted Valeri of T. Valeri Construction;
Mario Frankovich, president of Burgeonvest Securities;
Oscar Kichi, owner of the Ramada Plaza hotel;
hotelier Mehran Koranki

Ted Valeri of T. Valeri Construction;
Mario Frankovich, president of Burgeonvest Securities;
Oscar Kichi, owner of the Ramada Plaza hotel;
hotelier Mehran Korank

I believe all of these people have sold their pieces to the company that owns the hotel. In turn, Tradeport and Liuna own that company.

[the dude]

The current owners are.............

Tony Battaglia of Westpark Developments, a founder and former chair of TradePort, which runs Munro airport;
Enrico Mancinelli, retired LIUNA executive;
Ted Valeri of T. Valeri Construction;
Mario Frankovich, president of Burgeonvest Securities;
Oscar Kichi, owner of the Ramada Plaza hotel;
hotelier Mehran Koranki

fine upstanding citizens, every one. make stinson look like an altar boy.

[realcity]

LIUNA owns Tim McCabe too

[realcity]

LIUNA?

Yes

[markbarbera]

LIUNA owns Tim McCabe too

McCabe's their biker babe!

[highwater]

I have a feeling you would have preferred to use the other 'b' word. Thanks for keeping it civil, although I would have given you a pass in this case, for the enhanced descriptive qualities. ;)

[raisethehammer]

Lol

[NorthEndRules]

Visited the sales office this afternoon with the wife and met the sales rep Larry. Apparently, there has been some rearrangements. The price of the penthouse is substantially lower than on the website; offices will take up floors 3-5; half the people who've put down payments must choose their units again. The coolest thing is mention of an automated car valet: you swipe a card and your car gets slotted into a storage spot. Your car is safe from break ins and you don't have to walk into a dimly lit P3 dungeon.

Trying to convince the wife to consider a unit

[raisethehammer]

yea, that car parking set-up is like NYC.
The cars all get taken on automated 'floors' and are parked side by side...nobody could steal one if they wanted to since it's impossible to move the cars or walk in between them.
He told me that it was starting to look like there would be more offices than in the old Connaught. He said if people wanted offices, they'd add more offices. Makes sense.
Did you find out how many people have made reservations?

[SteelTown]

I guess the number of hotel space has been reduced and office space has increased.

[NorthEndRules]

There were about 5 dots on the board on Sunday and he said half the people hadn't checked back...

[raisethehammer]

5 dots?? that's not good. Someone else said there was around a dozen dots a week ago.

[NorthEndRules]

That is 5 dots came back to choose their units again and 5 dots were yet to come back to rechoose their units

[raisethehammer]

unless something changes in the next 7 days, I can't see him landing the financing with only 10-15 reservations made.

[matt602]

Yes, this project isn't looking nearly as positive as it did 2 weeks ago.

[raisethehammer]

Catch-22. people won't reserve units until the guy selling them actually owns the place, yet the financial institutions want to see his number of reservations before giving the financing to purchase the property.

[BCTed]

Catch-22. people won't reserve units until the guy selling them actually owns the place, yet the financial institutions want to see his number of reservations before giving the financing to purchase the property.

again, anyone who believes that he won't be able to get any support or backing from any of his TO friends is out in left field.

ll

[Jon Dalton]

Don't laugh. There's still hope.

[thistleclub]

yea, that car parking set-up is like NYC.
The cars all get taken on automated 'floors' and are parked side by side...nobody could steal one if they wanted to since it's impossible to move the cars or walk in between them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/realestate/commercial/06park.html

[BCTed]

Don't laugh. There's still hope.

I don't even know for a fact that Stinson is facing financing challenges (although I can certainly believe it), so I am not laughing. That said, I do not think that there is anything in which to invest hope.

[matt602]

I don't think it's financial challenges, but that he is starting to face the reality of the Hamilton development market.

[BCTed]

I don't think it's financial challenges, but that he is starting to face the reality of the Hamilton development market.

Let's not start shifting blame to Hamilton. Most people on here have sworn up and down that Hamilton is full of great development opportunities, blah blah blah. I don't know how true that is, but the only person to point the finger at here is Harry Stinson if this thing never gets off the ground. He should have known what he was getting into and been ready to maneuver around all obstacles.

The bottom line is that this project is a complete non-story until something actually happens. Talk of 1000 foot high buildings and even hotel renovations is way premature if Stinson cannot even cobble together a minimal amount of funding.

Isn't this deal supposed to close soon? Are we going to receive an update if it does? Are we going to receive an update if it doesn't?

[raisethehammer]

Let's not start shifting blame to Hamilton. Most people on here have sworn up and down that Hamilton is full of great development opportunities, blah blah blah. I don't know how true that is, but the only person to point the finger at here is Harry Stinson if this thing never gets off the ground. He should have known what he was getting into and been ready to maneuver around all obstacles.

The bottom line is that this project is a complete non-story until something actually happens. Talk of 1000 foot high buildings and even hotel renovations is way premature if Stinson cannot even cobble together a minimal amount of funding.

Isn't this deal supposed to close soon? Are we going to receive an update if it does? Are we going to receive an update if it doesn't?

a few points here:

-people on this board have sworn up and down about great opportunity in Hamilton because that's what real estate and business experts across Canada are predicting. The migration of ex-TO'ers to the Hammer is one such example.
-talks of 1000 foot high buildings is absolutely allowed and acceptable when project pages like this www.theconnaught.ca exist.
-you're right...if he can't get financing, none of this matters. Everyone in town and on this board has repeated that at nauseum. It's not news, nor is it only your viewpoint. We all know.
-the deal is supposed to close at the end of June. We will certainly hear an update one way or the other in a week's time.

I shudder at the prospect of this deal falling apart, not because of 1000 foot towers or even hotel reno's (although I want that to happen), but most of all, it would leave this beautiful piece of history in the hands of our thug friends at LIUNA. That would be a huge setback for downtown and the entire city.

[BCTed]

a few points here:

-people on this board have sworn up and down about great opportunity in Hamilton because that's what real estate and business experts across Canada are predicting. The migration of ex-TO'ers to the Hammer is one such example.
-talks of 1000 foot high buildings is absolutely allowed and acceptable when project pages like this www.theconnaught.ca exist.
-you're right...if he can't get financing, none of this matters. Everyone in town and on this board has repeated that at nauseum. It's not news, nor is it only your viewpoint. We all know.
-the deal is supposed to close at the end of June. We will certainly hear an update one way or the other in a week's time.

I shudder at the prospect of this deal falling apart, not because of 1000 foot towers or even hotel reno's (although I want that to happen), but most of all, it would leave this beautiful piece of history in the hands of our thug friends at LIUNA. That would be a huge setback for downtown and the entire city.

- Hamilton may or may not represent a great opportunity. Whether it does or not is really only a side consideration to me here.
- Talk of 1000 foot buildings is certainly allowed, but it is also certainly very premature. Anyone can draw a picture and put it on a Web page, but that does not mean that it is anywhere close to becoming a reality.
- You are becoming a revisionist with your financing talk. Please do not pretend that you are not. You have talked repeatedly about Stinson's big bucks connections in Toronto, his relationships with banks, his high standing, and the fact that Bob Bratina told you that Stinson has big money behind this thing. You have talked about it as if it was a mere formality, when in reality it has always been far from that.
- I hope that we do hear something soon. If this thing does not go through, everyone can stop wasting time.

[raisethehammer]

of course I think he can get the financing. I'm a little stunned that only 10 units have been reserved.
Institutions, well-heeled companions etc....are all ready to line up with Harry, but not if nobody is interested in buying the condos.
You've repeatedly said that he won't get financing because of who he is. I've repeatedly said that based on who he is, he can easily get it. He has people calling him, interested in this project.
What I didn't expect, was for only 10 units to be reserved in the first 2.5 weeks (if that's in fact true).
I don't care if your Donald Trump - nobody will give huge financing to a project with seeming little interest.