Royal Connaught Hotel | ? | 36 fl, 33 fl, 24 fl & 13 fl | U/C

[markbarbera]

I've been hearing rumours of a sale since February. Fact is, there is not much interest in buying a heritage building requiring restoration during heady economic times, let alone during a recession. I'll be surprised to see this change hands any time soon, especially with the current asking price.

There's a bitter irony in knowing that if there was not such bitter opposition to the plan to restore as a mixed use residence last year, the building would have been well on its way to being restored and occupied. Those supposedly speaking out to 'save' it have contributed to its doom. Classic cliche of cutting one's nose to spite one's face.

[Jon Dalton]

If I recall correctly, the failure of the mixed housing proposal was due to the provincial government's denial of Hamilton's funding request, in which the Connaught was in fact included despite much protest. I also recall provincial sources quoted as saying the denial for Hamilton was not connected to the Connaught or the nature of public discourse surrounding it. Thus, the opponents of that scheme don't deserve credit for derailing it, whether or not that would have been wise.

[markbarbera]

The reason for denying the request is open to speculation, but I would think it naive to believe that the letter writing and phone campaign opposing the proposal did not bear influence on the province's decision. Especially when we are talking about the hypersensitive McGuinty government, which seems to back away from any decision that generates public outcry, regardless of its merit (i.e. Oakville power plant, hydro rates, eco fees, school curriculum,...)

[flar]

The last thing Hamilton needs is more poor people living downtown. As I said in another thread, the poor "own" downtown Hamilton, middle class people are "the other" and feel unwelcome. That's why nobody wants to go down there, or invest in it.

[emge]

I've said before and I'll say again - no matter how articulate, involved, or passionate I am about Hamilton, I should not be able to afford to live downtown. Even given that I may one day have significant dollars to contribute there, the potential alone should not afford me that privilege.

The fact downtown is so cheap and that I can live so close is a travesty, as is the ownership of downtown primarily by those who gravitate there by default. Good public space is built on a mix of people, attractions, and activities, not by making it the space to be if you haven't got anywhere else to be.

[mattgrande]

Why were people against the Royal Connaught being used as residential?

[flar]

Why were people against the Royal Connaught being used as residential?

Because it was going to be converted to cheap housing. The building would probably get trashed and be full of sketchy people, right in the heart of Gore Park and downtown. It would do absolutely nothing to help downtown or the building. A totally inappropriate development.

Please note that I am totally in favour of social housing, there is a huge need for it, but not downtown. Social housing needs to be in mixed income neighbourhoods, not concentrated in one place (see: "the projects" in US cities as a cautionary example)

[highwater]

Why were people against the Royal Connaught being used as residential?

It was going to be 100 units of housing for people living on social assistance, with social services at street level, and they were asking for $18m taxpayer's dollars to do it, which works out to $180,000/unit. It had nothing to do with providing appropriate housing for disadvantaged people, and everything to do with lining the owners' pockets at the public's expense.

Imagine what you could do with $18m if you truly cared about providing decent housing for people. You could buy 100 $180,000 homes in neighbourhoods with good schools, parks, rec centres, and grocery stores - the kinds of amenities that might actually better peoples' lives instead of further ghettoizng them downtown, and turning an iconic building into a social and economic drain on the downtown, rather than the revitalizing force it could and should be.

I don't entirely agree with emge. I don't think downtown would benefit from being the exclusive playground of the rich, anymore than it benefits from being the social service dumping ground it currently is. Mono-cultures are unhealthy and unsustainable no matter which end of the spectrum they hail from. Affordable housing isn't the only reason many Torontonians are fleeing to Hamilton. The condoization of Toronto's downtown is creating a social and cultural blandness and uniformity that poses a threat to TO's cultural (and by association economic) hegemony, and some Torontonians are starting to rebel. The healthiest neighbourhoods by far, are mixed income. Making the Connaught's owners rich on our dime by turning the Connaught into more susidized housing, would have been as grave a disservice to the potential residents as it would have been to the cultural and economic health of the downtown.

[markbarbera]

Actually, it was to be a mixed use residential building, with 100 units subsidized rentals and 109 at market residential rentals. There was never any social assistance housing proposed for the site. I see the misinformation continues to perpetuate almost a year after the plan that would have restored the Connaught was killed.

[highwater]

They started off claiming that the housing would be for the 'working poor', but later admitted it would be for seniors and people on disability ie. social assistance. And the additional 109 units doesn't change the fact that they were asking for an $18m handout to pay for the 100 subsidized units.

I would call $180,000/unit to place socially disadvantaged people in the heart of downtown - compounding their own social disadvantages as well as the overall social and economic disadvantage of the downtown, an extremely poor use of taxpayers dollars, but I see the pro corporate welfare spin continues to perpetuate almost a year after the provincial government saw this deal for what it was.

[markbarbera]

Being someone who once sat on the board of a cooperative housing unit with the same mix of market value and susidized housing, I am used to the incorrect stereotype that subsidized housing equals social assistance housing. Our co-op had a 50/50 split between full market and subsidized rentals not unlike what was presented for the Connaught last year. My personal experience betrays this stereotype painted by the alarmists that killed this project for the bunk that it is.

Residents of the subsidized units at my old building are comprised mostly of the working poor, i.e. those who work at a low income rate. They are also comprised of people on a fixed income like seniors and the disabled (why again should they be discouraged from living downtown), but the mix is usually an even split. The beauty of geared-to-income housing lost on those blinded by stereotype is that people who normally would have little or no disposable income after paying rent now have disposable income to spend in the neighborhood where they live. They also coexist with neighbours who pay full market rent in a healthy integrated environment, rather than the typical ghettoization that is preferred by those who embrase stereotypes. In my experience, practically all residents (those with market units and those with subsidized units) contributed positively to the environment and enriched a neighbourhood that had previously been downtrodden and derelect (not unlike Hamilton's Gore Park today).

For $18 million dollars, we could have had a restored Connaught with over 200 households living (and shopping) in the core. Instead we have an empty, crumbling building and none of the new money being spent in the core that this project could have brought. People may draw some conclusions based on preconceived notions on why may have been, but my own personal experience showed me that an excellent opportunity to enrich a downtrodden neighbourhood was squandered for no good reason.

[flar]

Your mixed coop might work in Toronto, but I have little doubt the building in question here would have turned out to be a roach infested hellhole with a bunch of people in wheelchair scooters out front smoking.

[highwater]

rather than the typical ghettoization that is preferred by those who embrase stereotypes...

This is a deliberate misreading of my comments. One of the reasons I opposed the consortium's proposal is because it would have promoted the ghettoization of people who are already ghettoized by their circumstances.

I had the pleasure of living next to a mixed income condo complex of the kind you describe for three years in Toronto, so I am very familiar with their social and economic benefits. That's not the problem. The problem is it's incredibly naive to think that this consortium could have pulled off a successful mixed income project like that, even if that was their intention.

For $18 million dollars, we could have had a restored Connaught with over 200 households living (and shopping) in the core. Instead we have an empty, crumbling building and none of the new money being spent in the core that this project could have brought.

If I had thought even for a minute that's what we would have got, I would have supported the proposal. Ironically, with the building up for sale, we are closer to the type of development you describe than we would have been had the province accepted the consortium's proposal. I realize there aren't alot of takers at the moment, and the asking price is ridiculous, but as long as the building stands, we at least have the hope that we might have a healthy, mixed use, mixed income development there one day. Under the current ownership, there was never any hope that it would be anything other than the hellhole Flar describes.

[markbarbera]

Let's simply agree to disagree on this topic then. If you like, we can discuss the Connaught again on the second anniversary of the killing of this deal. Unfortunately there's every indication that the building will still be in the same state then.

[Jon D]

Does anyone know the status of the gore park master plan? i think i remember reading somewhere that it was going to begin being implemented once the buses were moved out of gore park to their new home at the mcnab transit terminal.

I'm thinking a revitalized gore park could seriously increase developer interest in the Cannaught. It's much easier to sell condo units/hotel rooms/whatever with a view of a beautiful urban park, rather than one of a transit hub.

[emge]

I hope that's the case, Jon. I unfortunately think that if the Gore is pedestrianized it just takes away the "commuter"/"student" aspects and only leaves those who already sit, drink, smoke, or deal in the park.

(Sure, it's a bit of an oversimplification, but I've gone there to read or meet someone enough times among a cloud of smoke and not-so-well-hidden bottles, and that's pretty much what you're left with if you take the bus-using folks away and don't add different attractions and uses there).

[SteelTown]

Quote from a heritage committee meeting.....

"Councilor Bratina indicated he heard the hotel might be purchased for an educational use."

[realcity]

Councilor or Mayor Bratina.

I would guess a college from China (we know it would never be Mac or Mohawk, too many floors and not enough parking, or too many other parking options).

Colombia College already uses the entire former Best Western as a rez and half of the floors of the Crowne (I think 4 or 5) are rented out to foreign students.

[SteelTown]

Quote from a heritage committee meeting.....

"The Royal Connaught Hotel, 112 King Street East, Hamilton (L) – M. Adkins

Mr. Adkins has heard rumours that Brock University or Columbia College may purchase it but nothing has materialized."

[thistleclub]

Spec: Convicted former Connaught partner goes AWOL before sentencing (http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/518321--convicted-former-connaught-partner-goes-awol-before-sentencing)

Sentencing for a former member of the Royal Connaught Hotel consortium found guilty of 50 fraud and money laundering charges in Oklahoma has been postponed because he has gone missing, according to court documents.

An arrest warrant has been issued for 50-year-old Mehran Koranki, who now lives in an Oklahoma City suburb and for five years was part of the consortium that owned Grand Connaught Development Group Inc.....

Koranki is facing up to 20 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 on each of the mail fraud charges, and up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 on each of the money laundering charges.

Koranki is also required to forfeit $6.2 million in proceeds obtained from the fraudulent scheme. The U.S. government is also seeking the forfeiture of four of Koranki’s properties, which were allegedly obtained from the proceeds of criminal acts.

[SteelTown]

King William lofts developer dreams of Connaught revival

http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/523083--king-william-lofts-developer-dreams-of-connaught-revival

Jamil Kara sits in his penthouse office in Hamilton, staring directly across the street at the decaying shell of the former Royal Connaught hotel and dreams big dreams.

He wants to take that historic building and turn it into a combination of condos and a boutique hotel — but $5 million stands in the way, the difference between what he thinks the building is worth and what the current owner wants for it.

Kara is the developer who stepped in to turn The Spectator’s former downtown printing plant into 50 condo lofts after three previous owners failed. This week he won an auction for the historic Hotel Niagara in Niagara Falls, New York, where he’s planning a condo-hotel revival — exactly what he wants to do with the Connaught.

There are many similarities between the Hamilton and Niagara hotels. The Connaught was built in 1916 while the Niagara property was raised in 1924. The Connaught’s most recent owners purchased it in 2005 for $4.5 million while Hotel Niagara sold in 2007 for $4.6 million. Both have been the focus of grandiose announcements that never materialized, both have a storied history in their community and both failed to attract bidders in previous sales efforts under bankruptcy/foreclosure. The major difference is price — the New York hotel sold for just over $1.3 million while the Connaught property was priced at $12 million when it was last listed for sale.

“If they’d sell it to me for $4 million I’d take it tomorrow,” he said of the downtown dowager. “The owners say they want $4 million or $5 million more and that’s just too much.”

The Connaught was purchased in 2005 for $4.5 million by a consortium called Grand Connaught Development Group. Its members included Tony Battaglia, former president of Hamilton airport, hotelier Oscar Kichi and Oklahoma businessman Mehran Koranki. That group was forced into bankruptcy in May 2010 when two other members — developers Rudi Spallacci and Ted Valeri — called in the $4-million second mortgage they held on the property. At the time of the failure creditors were owed more than $12.9 million.

Valeri and Spallacci did not return calls seeking comment.

The consortium had an ambitious $40-million development plan, but could never raise the required financing. In 2008, developer Harry Stinson offered $9.5 million for the property, but again couldn’t raise financing.

Stinson was also a bidder for the Niagara hotel, coming in second.

Kara said his plan in Niagara Falls is to turn 70 per cent of the 193 rooms into condominiums while the balance will be refurbished as an independent five-star hotel. He has said the project will take two years and cost up to $10 million. The purchase is expected to close by the American Memorial Day holiday in May.

Doing the same to the Connaught, Kara added, would be a much more expensive proposition.

“It would take $20 million to revive it,” he said. “There’s pigeons all over the place in there.”

Kara said he has never made a formal offer for the Connaught but he has had general discussions with a representative of the owners.

Kara’s downtown Film-Work Lofts project was completed within 11 months of his buying the King William Street building and sold out within 30 days of the units hitting the market. He added he’d love to do another project in Hamilton, after shifting his business operations from Vancouver, but can’t find a piece of land he deems viable.

“We’re looking all the time, but we can’t find anything that makes sense,” he said. “We don’t want something that’s only good for 15 units, we want to do 50 or more. There’s just nothing much to do right now.

“If I can find something suitable in Hamilton I’ll grab it with open arms.”

[FRM]

Looking for a piece of property? Why not the federal building...

[SteelTown]

Is it up for sale?

[realcity]

Everything is for sale

[flar]

Everything is for sale, but in the Bermuda Triangle of downtown Hamilton, the price is usually beyond ridiculous. The way Hamilton speculators operate, the Commerce Place complex is probably worth over a billion dollars.

[markbarbera]

In the specific case of the Connaught, the price is not being driven by owners' speculation but by a bankruptcy where the trustee's main concern is to recoup the $12 million owed to the creditors they represent.

[matt602]

Looking for a piece of property? Why not the federal building...

Which is owned by Darko Vranich, whom will hold onto that property to his last dying breath, no doubt... whether or not it ever gets developed.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

To call these guys speculators is too kind. They're criminals and they never had any intention of renovating the Connaught. One of the many reasons why banks are so wary of investing in the downtown.

[jckjones29]

With my view in this topic.The YW down town that the project Royal Connaught Hotel cancelled by builder.its seems reopened early.The Royal Connaught Hotel is a 13-storey building, 50 metres tall, at the corner of King Street East & John Street North in downtown Hamilton, ontario, Canada. It was built by Harry Frost of Buffalo, New York in 1914, who also started up and owned the Frost Fence Company in Hamilton.

[realcity]

Stealtown... on the Hamilton diagram page. indicate that the Royal Connaught is "unused" or "vacant", the annex and the original building.

[SteelTown]

Work on historic Connaught building could start by fall

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/579992--work-on-historic-connaught-building-could-start-by-fall

Development will start on the historic Royal Connaught Hotel as early as this fall, says Mayor Bob Bratina.

“I can tell you right now, you will soon be hearing about the Connaught. The developers, the property owners are now moving forward with a project,” said Bratina.

The mayor, Ward 2 Councillor Jason Farr and the property’s developers met Wednesday to discuss the future of the historic building.

“It’s partly condominium. I think it’s phased, but you would have to call Ted Valeri or Rudi Spallacci,” Bratina added.

Spallacci and Valeri are area developers who hold the second mortgage on the historic downtown hotel. Neither could be reached for comment.

The hotel was purchased in 2005 for $4.5 million by a consortium called Grand Connaught Development Group. Its members included Tony Battaglia, former president of John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport, hotelier Oscar Kichi and Oklahoma businessman Mehran Koranki.

That group was forced into bankruptcy in May 2010, when two other members — Spallacci and Valeri — called in the $4-million second mortgage they held on the property.

“I’ve had informal conversations with (Spallacci and Valeri) and they’re ready to go with Connaught as soon as this fall,” said Bratina.

Farr declined to comment on the details of Wednesday’s meeting, referring questions to the mayor. Asked if he also thought the project would happen soon, Farr responded “absolutely.”

“I always had confidence that a project of this magnitude at the nerve centre of our core was imminent, based on all the good things happening of late,” said Farr.

The mayor revealed the Connaught information while answering questions about the status of other downtown development.

“The fact is, there was a downturn in 2008. We had four hotels on the books planned and all the financing went down the tube. There was a hotel at Walnut and Main, there was the Hilton, the Staybridge and the Connaught and all those went dormant,” said Bratina.

“We’ve worked hard to get where we are, things are starting to move. We’ve had two major investors meetings today and yesterday.

“And I can’t give you any insight into what those meetings are about.”

[drpgq]

So no word as yet about affordable housing? I'm hoping no.

[thistleclub]

Mayor Bratina was on CHML this morning but the affordable housing question wasn't broached. Reportedly it's a three-phase project that will feature a 28-storey tower going up on the Catharine Street side. A rendering is supposedly being posted to CHML's site later today, so we'll see what it looks like then; Valery and Spallacci's precedents are mostly townhomes so it's not much to go on. Hopefully a little more ambitious than a double-height version of the Spallacci Block.

[SteelTown]

Well Valeri Construction is known for building affordable housing. They built the 8 storey building at Stone Church.

[thistleclub]

Well Valeri Construction is known for building affordable housing. They built the 8 storey building at Stone Church.

Certainly not ruling affordable housing out, but even then not entertaining a vulgar notion of what affordable housing looks like. To my mind, the most obvious project precedent would be the Spallacci Block, but I'd like to be astonished. The thought of a thoroughly mediocre 28-storey tower being installed thanks to a heavy public subsidy is not inconceivable, but neither is it a foregone conclusion.

[markbarbera]

here's the rendering:

http://www.900chml.com/Pics/CONNAUGHT.jpg
photo originally posted at chml.com
http://www.900chml.com/Pics/CONNAUGHT.jpg

New 28-storey tower to be built in parking lot at east side of the Connaught.

Original buildings to be retained intact.

[SteelTown]

Royal Connaught Hotel | ? | 12 fl | Cancelled -> Royal Connaught Hotel | ? | 28 fl | Planning

[SteelTown]

You can listen to the Mayor about the Connaught....

http://www.900chml.com/Station/BillKellyShow/Audio.aspx

Bill Kelly Show, August 18th, Mayor Bob Bratina (Connaught)

Downtown Hamilton was back in the development news yesterday as Mayor Bob Bratina and Wad 2 Downtown Councilor Jason Farr met with developers for details on The Royal Connaught development. Joining the show today is Mayor Bob Bratina.

[bigguy1231]

Great, another big announcement. How many times have we heard this before and how much are they asking the government to pony up as a subsidy.

I'll believe it when I see the shovels go on the ground and the constrction crane rise.

[Jon Dalton]

I take this with a grain of salt. A few years ago Bratina told us the Hilton hotel was about to go up...

[CaptainKirk]

To be fair, a few years ago the economy tanked when the recession hit and it was virtually impossible to obtain financing for such projects.

[bigguy1231]

I take this with a grain of salt. A few years ago Bratina told us the Hilton hotel was about to go up...

Anyone who has lived in this city for any length of time takes all of these announcements about any developement with a healthy dose of skepticism.

[thistleclub]

To be fair, a few years ago the economy tanked when the recession hit and it was virtually impossible to obtain financing for such projects.

Occupancy trends probably wouldn't have bolstered the case.

Ontario
2006: Jan-Mar 55.7% / Jan-Jun 60.3% / Jan-Dec 63.3% [ADR $124.46]
2007: Jan-Mar 54.4% / Jan-Jun 59.9% / Jan-Dec 62.5% [ADR $126.39]
2008: Jan-Mar 53.1% / Jan-Jun 59.4% / Jan-Dec 61.4% [ADR $126.80]
2009: Jan-Mar 49.9% / Jan-Jun 54.3% / Jan-Dec 57.2% [ADR $119.52]
2010: Jan-Mar 50.5% / Jan-Jun 57.0% / Jan-Dec 60.5% [ADR $121.18]
2011: Jan-Mar 53.1%

GTA
2006: Jan-Mar 60.1% / Jan-Jun 64.4% / Jan-Dec 66.7% [ADR $134.81]
2007: Jan-Mar 60.7% / Jan-Jun 64.6% / Jan-Dec 66.0% [ADR $135.67]
2008: Jan-Mar 59.3% / Jan-Jun 65.2% / Jan-Dec 66.1% [ADR $135.91]
2009: Jan-Mar 54.9% / Jan-Jun 58.1% / Jan-Dec 60.9% [ADR $123.94]
2010: Jan-Mar 57.5% / Jan-Jun 63.6% / Jan-Dec 66.3% [ADR $127.27]
2011: Jan-Mar 60.2%

Hamilton/Brantford
2006: Jan-Mar 56.5% / Jan-Jun 60.0% / Jan-Dec 64.3% [ADR $96.38]
2007: Jan-Mar 59.2% / Jan-Jun 61.1% / Jan-Dec 64.8% [ADR $102.83]
2008: Jan-Mar 55.6% / Jan-Jun 58.6% / Jan-Dec 59.0% [ADR $107.24]
2009: Jan-Mar 44.3% / Jan-Jun 49.1% / Jan-Dec 52.3% [ADR $104.09]
2010: Jan-Mar 43.2% / Jan-Jun 48.7% / Jan-Dec 50.9% [ADR $99.80]
2011: Jan-Mar 51.1%

Seems like we had compelling numbers in 2006-07 but haven't bettered the provincial occupancy average since Q1 2008.

Via Ministry of Tourism and Culture (http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/research/F&F/F_F.shtml).

[woreg75]

architecture nouveau... dans la ville de Hamilton! anything is new... and anyone living here isn't used to it! Get involved.. you don't think people are not invovled? Christ! We all are involved! It's new not as the french language is to me! Shape it! I've been there in montreal and toronto... GET INVOLVeD! with the way it looks! Architects like that!

[Hamiltowner]

This article on the Hamilton Spectator website tonight reports that the City of Hamilton expects the Royal Connaught property redevelopment to be completed in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games.
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/580622--connaught-s-work-in-progress-complete-for-pan-am-games

[Millstone]

here's the rendering:

http://www.900chml.com/Pics/CONNAUGHT.jpg
photo originally posted at chml.com
http://www.900chml.com/Pics/CONNAUGHT.jpg

New 28-storey tower to be built in parking lot at east side of the Connaught.

Original buildings to be retained intact.

This is the ugliest rendering I've ever seen. Can you imagine when it's done.

[NuclearNerd]

This is the ugliest rendering I've ever seen. Can you imagine when it's done.

Oh wow. I completely take back my last post (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=193183). I guess its just as easy to make a building addition look barf-worthy. If this is the real plan, I honestly hope it meets the same fate as the glass pyramid.

[bigguy1231]

According to CH news, they talked to the people involved with the redevelopemnet who said yes they have plans to redevelope but they are only in the preliminary stages of planning.

Looks like the mayor, was grandstanding again, jumping the gun, by making an announcement.

[SteelTown]

RE: Former Royal Connaught Hotel Property, City of Hamilton

HAMILTON, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - Aug. 19, 2011) - 2233422 ONTARIO INC., a mortgage holder of the former Royal Connaught hotel in the City of Hamilton, wishes to address certain comments which have been made recently regarding the proposed redevelopment of the property.

2233422 Ontario Inc. confirms that the intention is to redevelop the property. As a part of the planning process, individuals have met with Mayor Brattina and other representatives of the City of Hamilton to discuss issues vital to the redevelopment.

As an interested party in the property, we are most gratified at the positive comments of Mayor Brattina regarding the proposed redevelopment as well as those of the press and other members of the community. However, it is important to note that the redevelopment is in the planning stages only and that there are many variables and issues still to be addressed.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/re-former-royal-connaught-hotel-property-city-of-hamilton-1551778.htm

[SteelTown]

Connaught drawings ‘very premature’

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/581229--connaught-drawings-very-premature

The early sketches of plans to develop the Royal Connaught are premature, says one developer’s son.

Developers Rudi Spallacci and Ted Valeri are out of the country this week, unable to comment on the recent announcement that development at the historic hotel could begin in the fall.

Mayor Bob Bratina released a photo Thursday of an artist’s sketch from a meeting with developers Wednesday.

“That was very preliminary … kind of like a blank slate visual of what could possibly go there,” explained Paul Valeri, speaking on behalf of his father Ted while he is out of the country on a personal matter.

“That drawing was very premature,” he added.

[mattgrande]

I was at the Jason Farr townhall last night. He implyed there would be a sales office in the Connaught by the end of the month.

[matt602]

Somehow I doubt this, but it would be great to see if it did happen.

[Duckyboy]

I was at the Jason Farr townhall last night. He implyed there would be a sales office in the Connaught by the end of the month.

How did the Town Hall meeting go last night? I'm perpetually overloaded with kids, homework and renovations and hence couldn't attend, but how was it?

[mattgrande]

It was okay. There were a lot of "safe" questions (probably because this is the first townhall). There was a good turnout; council chambers were full. I hope they do it again.

[msakalau]

it'd be nice if they could get something going.

In Buffalo's core, the Statler was recently renovated into conference/event space. pretty nice job. reminds me of what potential connaught has.

http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/10/statler-ready-for-trust-conference-opening-party-tonight.html

[Duckyboy]

It was okay. There were a lot of "safe" questions (probably because this is the first townhall). There was a good turnout; council chambers were full. I hope they do it again.

Yea, it being the first one, I guess softball questions were to be expected. But at least the turnout was good; hopefully things can only go up from here.

Thanks Matt.

[matt602]

Is "Pigeon Motel" code name for that sales office going in next month?

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/Downtown%20Hamilton/pigeon-hotel.jpg

Lots of action going on.

[coalminecanary]

Does anyone know what buildings/businesses were on that corner before the connaught was built? Any old photos?
THanks!

[flar]

I believe there was a different hotel (Waldorf?) there before:

http://www.metroperspectives.com/img/s11/v32/p802231614-5.jpg

You can see the old post office, which is where the courthouse, aka Dominion Public Building, now stands.

Another view:
http://www.metroperspectives.com/img/s8/v9/p319730700-5.jpg

[coalminecanary]

Thanks - I saw that waldorf in another photo (I think on the transit history website). I'm trying to get a sense for the timeline of buildings and businesses on that corner, I wonder what was there even before that

If you wanna get rally depressed, look through their streetcar photos. I mean, imagine this:

[photo as listed on http://hamiltontransithistory.host-ed.net/NSC.html as "HSR 511 on King St East between Elgin and Ferguson, date unknown. (From the Stephen M. Scalzo collection, used with permission)"]
http://neenerneet.net/images/hsr511asm.jpg

why can't we have nice things!?

[palace1]

Some info. here:
http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/205/301/ic/cdc/hamilton_tour/default.htm

[coalminecanary]

THanks but I can't load it...
Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /100/205/301/ic/cdc/hamilton_tour/default.htm on this server.

[thistleclub]

Thanks - I saw that waldorf in another photo (I think on the transit history website). I'm trying to get a sense for the timeline of buildings and businesses on that corner, I wonder what was there even before that

Hamilton has a history of knocking down 50- to 80-year-old buildings. Pretty much eery beloved architectural landmark ploughed some history under along the way.

I'll have to dig around for it, but somewhere I have a great vintage photo of King looking west from around Catharine... seem to recall something like six or seven lanes of traffic.

[SteelTown]

Sounds like there's some movement happening. Apparently the owners are working with the City for the incentives.

I doubt it'll be a Hotel again, probably residential units.

[thistleclub]

Apparently the owners are working with the City for the incentives.

Fall flashbacks...

OCT 2007 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4460540&postcount=1001):
Gord Moodie, the city's co-ordinator of downtown municipal incentives, remains optimistic about the project, which is seen as a key part of the downtown plan. "I think the next couple of months will tell the story." But even if the project falls through, Moodie said he's already talked to other hoteliers who are interested in the property. "Either way it's going to fly." … The current plan includes a revamped hotel under the Renaissance name of the Marriott chain and a condo tower at the back. In August, the city approved a $3.4-million downtown revitalization loan for the condo portion of the project.

SEPT 2009 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4460540&postcount=1001):
Council signed off on a controversial proposal to turn the Royal Connaught into mixed-income housing late last night after the hotel's owners paid off $500,000 in back taxes earlier in the day….. If approved by the province, the Connaught project would receive $12.9 million from a government housing program and $5.6 million in tax and fee breaks from the city. The consortium is also in talks with the city about further incentives.

[CaptainKirk]

Sounds like there's some movement happening. Apparently the owners are working with the City for the incentives.

I doubt it'll be a Hotel again, probably residential units.

Carmen's?

Casino?

Anything?

Might that create the possibility of it being a hotel once again?

That'd be nice.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/HAMILTON-ONTARIO-Royal-Connaught-Hotel-c1910-Postcard-/00/$(KGrHqIOKpcE4vbBTQtmBOSIuWr4nw~~0_3.JPG

[matt602]

I really hope this isn't a reincarnation of that horrible affordable housing thing. This building deserves more than that.

[thistleclub]

The Lister was bought for around $300K/storey in 1999 and endured 9 years in project limbo/architectural puragatory thereafter. $30m in public money eventually provided the business case.

The Connaught was bought for around $350K/storey in January 2005 and is rapidly closing on 8 years of non-development. The prospect of $19m in public assistance has been the closest thing they've had to a business case.

A more creative private-sector solution would demonstrate that Hamilton had turned the proverbial corner and was moving beyond its chronic dependency on public funding. Time will tell.

[matt602]

I love the Connaught but I'd rather see it sit abandoned for another decade than see it turned into anything but a high class hotel. There's plenty of land and other buildings to build affordable housing units at. There's only one Royal Connaught. When you consider the fact that downtown is starting to turn around and several other hotel projects are starting to climb toward the sky, it's inevitable that the business case for restoring the Royal Connaught will only improve in the coming years. Especially as other projects near it on King East and John North start to increase the value of the area. Let's not just jump at the first chance to do something with the building, especially when it's at the cost of several million dollars in public money.

[mattgrande]

Out of curiosity, would anyone else support a casino downtown if it meant the rejuvenation of the Connaught?

[CaptainKirk]

I love the Connaught but I'd rather see it sit abandoned for another decade than see it turned into anything but a high class hotel. There's plenty of land and other buildings to build affordable housing units at. There's only one Royal Connaught. When you consider the fact that downtown is starting to turn around and several other hotel projects are starting to climb toward the sky, it's inevitable that the business case for restoring the Royal Connaught will only improve in the coming years. Especially as other projects near it on King East and John North start to increase the value of the area. Let's not just jump at the first chance to do something with the building, especially when it's at the cost of several million dollars in public money.

Agreed completely!

Out of curiosity, would anyone else support a casino downtown if it meant the rejuvenation of the Connaught?

I'm neutral on the issue of a casino in downtown Hamilton. I want to learn more about the pros and cons of it, but if it meant the restoration of the Royal Connaught as a casino and hotel (even with an added "Carmen's tower" ala Stinson's 100 storey pyramid), then I'd support it, fully!

[SteelTown]

Out of curiosity, would anyone else support a casino downtown if it meant the rejuvenation of the Connaught?

I'd support it. But I don't think it'll happen unless the Connaught changes owners.

[Pearlstreet]

Out of curiosity, would anyone else support a casino downtown if it meant the rejuvenation of the Connaught?

I would not support it. Obviously it's the elephantitis on the face of a would be beautiful girl (okay, maybe at least the girl with a 'great personality'). The casino has short term gain, long term pain. Prediction: Hamilton will have the momentum to carry through making larger projects like Cannon Knitting Mills and Connaught happen. Patience grasshoppers.

[Jon Dalton]

Out of curiosity, would anyone else support a casino downtown if it meant the rejuvenation of the Connaught?

Wherever they put a casino they are going to want massive parking. That's probably why they're looking at the Sir John A site. If it goes in the connaught they are going to want the whole rest of the block to be surface parking and the one way streets to stay. On those grounds alone I would be hesitant to support a casino anywhere in downtown.

[msakalau]

If Buffalo did it (http://thehotellafayette.com/)...I'm sure someone can get behind the Cannaught and return it to it's former glory!

[CaptainKirk]

Wherever they put a casino they are going to want massive parking. That's probably why they're looking at the Sir John A site.

One more reason to build the stadium at WH.

[markbarbera]

Not sure how one can position a potential downtown casino as a case for the failed WH stadium location, but maybe I am missing something. If there is some sort of synergy maybe the former Scott Park could be a possible site for a casino resort.

Casinos do need lots of parking, but those in urban locations certainly opt for underground and/or parking garages over surface parking. Except of course for those built into the sprawl next to a highway. And I am sure no one here would be advocating anything that adds to urban sprawl. Regardless what happens to Connaught, Main seems destined to remain one way for the foreseeable future - that is why we are pretending that LRT will be going onto King Street after all.

My tongue was firmly in cheek while writing this post by the way.

The Royal Connaught has been an empty building now since 2004.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Prediction: Hamilton will have the momentum to carry through making larger projects like Cannon Knitting Mills and Connaught happen. Patience grasshoppers.

I can spot a recent transplant a mile away. They always reek of positivity. ;)

[drpgq]

I'd accept fixing up the Connaught for a casino, although grudgingly.

On the provincial side, I don't think this is a good strategy. All these new casinos will just cannibalize the already existing casinos. If I were in Brantford or Niagara, I would be concerned.

[durandy]

I'd support it so long as the deal included provisions for ameliorating the negative effects, like x amount of revenues must go to local addiction treatment.

[SteelTown]

Apparently there's still plans to open up a condo sales centre at the Royal Connaught to sell units. Probably Spring/Summer 2013, after the casino decision.

[thomax]

^ Awesome news! I really hope something happens with it soon.

[SteelTown]

Royal Connaught
This year is do or die for the Royal Connaught.This year is do or die for the Royal Connaught. (Paul Wilson/ CBC)

7. If 2013 expires without something happening at the decaying Royal Connaught, I do believe we’re well and truly sunk.

I never did hear back from the owners after trying my best for a little dialogue. However, from those in the know, I’m still told to look for a Connaught Condos sales trailer in the coming months.

Meanwhile, city staff are wrapping up work on the hotel’s designation under the Ontario Heritage Act.

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/talk/story/2013/01/07/hamilton-tenthings.html

[Jon Dalton]

If the current owners say their development plans hinge on the casino, I would call their bluff. Other condos are full steam ahead and noone else in the business has said we need a casino.

[realcity]

It's going to be an awesome resort casino.

[thistleclub]

The Royal Con (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEDkNAuNCsQ)naught (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/naught)

[Jon Dalton]

It's going to be an awesome resort casino.

Let's not bother understanding cities, that's hard. Let's look at pictures on the internet instead. That way casinos are awesome.

[SteelTown]

New plans on the table for Connaught

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/871167--new-plans-on-the-table-for-connaught

The owners of the Royal Connaught Hotel are meeting with city staff about converting the storied building into condos.

“They’re looking at moving forward with some kind of conversion of the Connaught to residential condos,” said Tim McCabe, the city’s director of economic development and planning. “If we can get that old lady back on her feet after all these years, it will be another major contribution to our downtown success.”

McCabe says Connaught owners Ted Valeri and Rudi Spallacci are in “pre-consultation” meetings with staff, but he’s not sure if they’ve officially begun the development application process. However, McCabe says once the pair does get started, they’ll only need a site plan application as all of the proper zoning is already in place.

The hotel was purchased in 2005 for $4.5 million by a consortium called Grand Connaught Development Group. Its members included Tony Battaglia, former president of John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport, hotelier Oscar Kichi and Oklahoma businessman Mehran Koranki.

That group was forced into bankruptcy in May 2010 when two other members of that consortium – Spallacci and Valeri – called in the $4-million second mortgage they held on the property.

The once-grand hotel was rumoured to be among the several downtown sites being considered for a downtown casino. However, due to these development plans, that’s not the case.

[mattgrande]

When should I start holding my breath?

[oldcoote]

another 'new' plan, huh?

[palace1]

Yawn....
Why are they in "pre-consultation meetings" if "all of the proper zoning is already in place"?

[thistleclub]

Yawn....
Why are they in "pre-consultation meetings" if "all of the proper zoning is already in place"?

Possibly trying to arrive at a number. (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5853862&postcount=1265)

[thistleclub]

Perspective: 900 units is larger than the Stinson plan for the entire block (http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/6127-Harry-does-Hamilton-Stinson-s-Royal-Connaught-DEAD?p=165593#post165593), which found 300 units in an expanded Connaught, plus 500 units in a new 100-storey tower.


Stars align at Royal Connaught (http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/872232--stars-align-at-royal-connaught)
(Hamilton Spectator, Teri Pekoskie, Jan 18, 2013)

All signs point to go at the Royal Connaught.

After a slew of false starts, it appears work is finally poised to move forward on the once-grand hotel.

There’s just a meeting and a mound of paperwork standing in the way.

According to the city’s planning department, building owners Ted Valeri and Rudi Spallacci must apply for a site plan before converting the nearly century-old building. If they have all their ducks in a row, construction on the massive condominium project could begin as early as this spring.

“There’s a fair bit of work to be done,” acknowledged planning director Paul Mallard. But if they’re able and they’re on top of it, “they can do that in a few months.”

The first step is the site plan application, which includes basic information about the project, such as building elevation. If it’s deemed complete, the owners meet with a development review committee comprised of city staff and representatives from various departments and agencies — usually within three or four weeks.

Once that committee gives the thumbs up, the process is in the owners’ hands.

“It really is up to them to address the conditions of approval,” said Mallard. This could include anything from detailed drawings to plans for landscape design and wastewater management.

When that information is provided, they’re eligible to apply for a building permit.

While it’s possible work could get under way by midspring, downtown councillor Jason Farr was emphatic the ball is in the owners’ court when it comes to project timelines.

“I have every faith in these two individuals and I’m really excited,” he said. “But they’re the ones investing millions of dollars and it’s their clock.”

Valeri and Spallacci have revealed little about the proposed development, except that it’s big — somewhere in the neighbourhood of 900 units.

Bruce Moran, president of the Realtors Association of Hamilton and Burlington, said a project that size could take years to build. Whether there’s a demand for that large a development is another question.

In his association area, which includes Hamilton, Burlington and Grimsby, there were around 2,500 condos sold last year.

“Nine hundred is a lot of units,” he noted.

And the numbers appear to be on the downswing, at least for now.

According to Abdul Kargbo, a senior market analyst for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, annual condo sales in the area declined by around 8 per cent in 2012.

Kargbo doesn’t expect that trend to continue long-term. “But because the overall market is slowing down, next year also we’re calling for a slight decline in both existing home sales and possibly new home sales,” he said.

He and Moran agreed a downtown development like this would likely primarily attract young professionals, first-time homebuyers and retirees looking to downsize.

Their advice?

Keep it simple, and moderately priced.

“If you make it too luxurious and the price point gets too high, you’re missing that young professional crowd,” said Moran. “It’s got to be affordable.”

[SteelTown]

More units means more money from the residential loan program. Which by the way the City just recently increased the amount.

[Dwils01]

I really hope this project succeeds but I doubt it with that amount of units. I can't see them selling that many in Hamilton at this point in time.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

I really hope this project succeeds but I doubt it with that amount of units. I can't see them selling that many in Hamilton at this point in time.

900 units is absurd. Is that even possible? They'd have to be bachelor suites to stack 'em, rack 'em, and pack 'em like that. They'd never sell.

[Pearlstreet]

900 units is absurd. Is that even possible? They'd have to be bachelor suites to stack 'em, rack 'em, and pack 'em like that. They'd never sell.

Does anyone know how many rooms are currently in the hotel? What kind of sq footage would the 900 proposed apts be? It would seem to hold lesser promise for future improvement by tenants if they were all kept so small. I hope this flys well and not just get off the ground. Go Hamilton Go!

[CaptainKirk]

There's this from wiki

On 29 February 2008 Harry Stinson inked a $9.5-million contract to purchase the Royal Connaught Hotel at Hamilton, Ontario. ...The concept included restoration and a substantial addition to the existing Connaught building to include a 100-room boutique luxury hotel and approximately 200 compact one- and two-bedroom multi-use condominium units.

and this...

The hotel, which dominated downtown Hamilton, was approached by a sweeping, canopied front drive. Inside, the lobby was decorated in Chippendale style furniture, decorated glass, and mahogany woodwork. A sweeping marble staircase lead to the mezzanine where writing desks for gentlemen were situated at one end, and a tea room for ladies at the other. The hotel's palatial amenities included 244 ensuite bedrooms all baths with marble floors. The hotel boasted a convention and banquet hall seating 1500, a grill room, a bar, a barber shop, a shoeshine parlour, telephones, electric clocks, and electric elevators replete with uniformed operators.
Over the next 5 decades, the Royal Connaught hosted scores of local and international events, hundreds of celebrities from the entertainment and political spheres.
http://historicalhamilton.com/beasley/royal-connaught-hotel/

[realcity]

When it was a hotel it was around the 300 room range. It must've been around 50-75,000 sq ft in retail and over 2 restaurants also with a pool/waterslide. The whole lower level, retail, some fronted the street, while most was in a winding indoor mall that I thought was really cool, at the end was a sports bar. The second floor was meeting and ballrooms, also quite large, similar to Carmens size.

[LikeHamilton]

Does anyone know how many rooms are currently in the hotel?

The Connaught was gutted. Almost every floor is just the 4 outer walls with the elevator shaft and stair wells. There are no rooms in the building! It is a blank slate.