Rapid Transit

[ChildishGavino]

Why the hell were the infrastructure ministers there? Why the hell wasn't the heritage minister there??? :???:

[ScreamingViking]

Good question, but I'd wager the infrastructure ministers attended because the pots of money that paid for this are under their jurisdiction.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

It's about funding to renovate the Griffin House in Ancaster. I don't think anybody was expecting that. I'd hardly call that an infrastructure announcement, but now I know why the MP for the West End, Dundas, & Ancaster is there.

Hey, I love Griffin House. Been there many times. But that's pretty funny. :haha::haha::haha:

[matt602]

I actually went to Griffin House by mistake while trying to take a friend to the hermitage a month ago. It's a neat piece of history.

[LikeHamilton]

Notice of Commencement of Transit Project Assessment Process
Stage 2 ION: LRT from Kitchener to Cambridge

The Project
The Region of Waterloo is proposing to extend the ION LRT system an additional 18 km from
Fairway station in Kitchener to Downtown Cambridge with eight new stations, creating a
continuous LRT service across the Region’s three urban centres. Regional Council endorsed
the Preferred Route (see map below) in June 2019 and the preliminary design in April 2020.

https://icreate7.esolutionsgroup.ca/11111028_RegionofWaterloo/en/living-here/resources/Stage2ION/Stage-2-ION-TPA-Notice-of-Commencement_ACCESS.pdf?utm_source=ehq_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ehq-New-Opportunities-on-Engage-Region-of-Waterloo&utm_campaign=website&utm_source=ehq&utm_medium=email

And we can't even get a shovel in the ground!

[TheRitsman]

Notice of Commencement of Transit Project Assessment Process
Stage 2 ION: LRT from Kitchener to Cambridge

The Project
The Region of Waterloo is proposing to extend the ION LRT system an additional 18 km from
Fairway station in Kitchener to Downtown Cambridge with eight new stations, creating a
continuous LRT service across the Region’s three urban centres. Regional Council endorsed
the Preferred Route (see map below) in June 2019 and the preliminary design in April 2020.

https://icreate7.esolutionsgroup.ca/11111028_RegionofWaterloo/en/living-here/resources/Stage2ION/Stage-2-ION-TPA-Notice-of-Commencement_ACCESS.pdf?utm_source=ehq_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ehq-New-Opportunities-on-Engage-Region-of-Waterloo&utm_campaign=website&utm_source=ehq&utm_medium=email

And we can't even get a shovel in the ground!

I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if hundreds of jobs, companies, and investment, simply left the thought of Hamilton being where they go, and went to Waterloo Region.

[ChildishGavino]

I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if hundreds of jobs, companies, and investment, simply left the thought of Hamilton being where they go, and went to Waterloo Region.

Uuugh :uhh: it's the sort of thing that makes you want to scream at a politician, isn't it?

[LikeHamilton]

Uuugh :uhh: it's the sort of thing that makes you want to scream at a politician, isn't it?

Especially Hamilton ones!!!!!!:hell:

[ChildishGavino]

Especially Hamilton ones!!!!!!:hell:

Man, the amount of the amount of reasons I have to scream at the entire council... :P It's all from the past year or so too.

Particularly about the Aviary. :hell:

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Hey, good for KW. At this point it's likely a fairly straightforward proposal and a ratification by government is quite likely bc they've got proof of concept (or whatever you want to call it). They've done it before. It works. Etc...

Hamilton, on the other hand, has proof of what exactly? :shrug:

[TheRitsman]

Hey, good for KW. At this point it's likely a fairly straightforward proposal and a ratification by government is quite likely bc they've got proof of concept (or whatever you want to call it). They've done it before. It works. Etc...

Hamilton, on the other hand, has proof of what exactly? :shrug:

That it's a funeral director that can't plan a funeral for shit.

[ScreamingViking]

Hey, good for KW. At this point it's likely a fairly straightforward proposal and a ratification by government is quite likely bc they've got proof of concept (or whatever you want to call it). They've done it before. It works. Etc...

Hamilton, on the other hand, has proof of what exactly? :shrug:

Proof of concept? This isn't brand new technology.

It should be about whether the cost to serve the travel demand is justified based on the expected benefits of improvement to the transportation network.

But unfortunately what it often tends to be about is politics, and there's no getting away from that.

[SteelTown]

Could Hamilton afford half a LRT? A two-phase project option is on the table, says LIUNA

Matthew Van Dongen
https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/2021/02/05/could-hamilton-afford-half-a-lrt-a-two-phase-project-option-is-on-the-table-says-liuna.html

Construction union LIUNA says it is talking to the province about building a Hamilton LRT in two phases — west and east of the downtown — even as the government prepares to release a review of rapid transit alternatives for the city.

Ontario’s Tory government controversially cancelled a long-planned city light rail transit line in the middle of construction bidding in 2019, citing a ballooning $5.5-billion budget. But just months after the project died, a provincial task force recommended spending $1 billion to build either LRT or bus rapid transit on the same corridor.

A technical review of those options will go to provincial Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney “in the coming days” and be released to the public “very soon,” said spokesperson Natasha Tremblay this week.

Amid that review, LIUNA submitted an unsolicited proposal to the province that suggested teaming up with the federal government and private sector to resurrect LRT at a shared cost of around $3.5 billion.

That proposal spurred ongoing talks about a potential “tripartite funding agreement” between Ontario, the federal government and LIUNA’s pension arm, vice-president Joe Mancinelli told The Spectator this week.

No level of government has committed to the pitch, he acknowledged, but described discussions as “promising.”

Those discussions have included a possible budget-stretching option of building the planned 14-kilometre, 17-stop transit line in two separate phases along the Main-King corridor: a western leg from McMaster University to downtown, followed by an extension to Eastgate Square mall.

LRT boosters like LIUNA and Hamilton’s chamber of commerce have argued LRT is a “shovel-ready” project tailor-made to aid the city’s post-pandemic economic recovery via billions of dollars in spending and thousands of jobs.

But Mancinelli said LRT fans also have to acknowledge all levels of government are struggling with COVID deficits. “From a financial point of view, it is a lot easier to have your funds allocated to Phase 1, and then get Phase 2 going,” he said. “It might also speed up the process ... to get shovels in the ground.”

Mancinelli said the form and amount of private cash from LIUNA’s pension arm would have to be negotiated and allow for a long-term return on investment. “We can’t do it for nothing,” he said.

Last year’s study by LIUNA partner Fengate Capital suggested up to $250 million in private construction cash could be raised in return for land development opportunities along the light rail line or a stake in the fare box. The study assumed shared federal and provincial funding, but no capital contribution from city taxpayers.

But what if the provincial review — or Hamilton’s council — suggests switching gears to bus rapid transit instead?

Around half of city councillors polled by The Spectator last year suggested they either opposed LRT, had funding concerns or wanted to hear more about BRT, which involves express buses running in dedicated lanes.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he was not aware of discussions around a possible phased approach to LRT construction, but added he supports LIUNA’s efforts to get light rail back on track.

He stressed council needs to see the results of the provincial review of rapid transit options “sooner rather than later” to maximize the benefits of a post-pandemic project like LRT. “There’s no new information from my end on where this project is going, or whether it’s going at all.”

Project opponent Coun. Chad Collins argued LRT is “dead” unless Ontario restores the full, multibillion-dollar funding commitment originally made by the provincial Liberals, which budgeted $3.7 billion before losing the 2018 election. The Tory government has capped its contribution at $1 billion.

“Whether it’s a full line or half-a-line, we’re still faced with the question of who is paying for the maintenance, life-cycle and operating costs. We (the city) can’t,” said Collins.

Mancinelli said he has spoken directly to Premier Doug Ford, Mulroney and federal Liberal Infrastructure Minister Catherine McKenna about the LRT pitch within the last month or two.

Publicly, the province has offered mixed signals on light rail. In August, Ford warned Hamilton would have to “tax the pants off” residents to pay for LRT as originally envisioned.

A month later, he acknowledged LIUNA’s proposal, appealed for federal funding and appeared to open the door to building a LRT line piecemeal. “Even if we move it, a little bit, get half, get two-thirds, get anything going, we can add onto it,” he said at a press conference.

In December, Ford hailed an auditor-general’s report that supported the $5.5 billion cost estimate the Tories used to justify cancelling LRT. But at the same time, he vowed “one way or another, we’re going to get the LRT built.”

A spokesperson for McKenna reiterated federal support for LRT via email. “We would welcome the province submitting a business case for review.”

[StEC]

Just build the f@#ing thing already... such complete utter incompetence!

I want to know who exactly the blame falls on here? Because all the other cities either have their LRT approved, built or are now under construction or expansion and then you have us who can't seem to get anything started for DECADES!!!! :hell:

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

13 agonizing years of a complacent and unimaginative council, dithering about without vision and a plan for the future, content to live on an easy workload with a more than cushy salary, while opportunity lands in their lap, and they let it go by! what a fucking MOCKERY! :hell:

This is why I'm getting into politics.

[TheRitsman]

This is why I'm getting into politics.

Welcome to the club. May god have mercy on your soul.

[LikeHamilton]

Breaking: Ontario willing to build shorter Hamilton LRT — if the federal government covers funding gap

Matthew Van Dongen Spectator Reporter Tue., Feb. 9, 2021

The province is asking the federal government to pay up to $1.5 billion to help build a resurrected — but shorter — light rail transit line in Hamilton, The Spectator has learned.

But if the federal government is not on board, the provincial Progressive Conservative government also has a newly completed Metrolinx study outlining possible bus rapid transit options, instead.

Thirteen months after cancelling Hamilton’s original LRT project mid-procurement, the Progressive Conservative government now says it is willing to put up $1 billion toward a shorter version — likely from McMaster University to Gage Avenue — so long as the federal Liberals or other partners cover the funding gap.

The province is expected to announce this afternoon that it is making Hamilton LRT one of its five “priority projects” submitted to the federal Liberal government for major transit funding.

A new Metrolinx estimate says it would cost between $2.2 and $2.5 billion in capital dollars to build a truncated, nine-kilometre LRT line ending in the east near Gage Park and Tim Hortons Field.


City council, which previously voted to approve a 14-kilometre LRT line fully funded by the province, was not asked to endorse the provincial decision to request federal cash for a shorter line.

It was not immediately clear Tuesday when council — which is increasingly divided over the light rail project — would get the opportunity to debate the latest development in the roller-coaster LRT saga.

Federal Infrastructure Minister Catherine McKenna has previously praised Hamilton’s LRT plan as a “shovel-ready” post-pandemic project, but has never indicated how much federal funding might be available.

The province is also continuing to consider an unsolicited proposal from construction union LIUNA to help offset construction costs with potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in private investment from its pension arm.

The Doug Ford government pulled the plug on Hamilton’s long-planned, 14-kilometre project between McMaster and Eastgate Square in December 2019 based on a ballooning budget of $5.5 billion to build, run and maintain the line.

The decision spurred a public outcry, prompting the formation of a transportation task force that just months later recommended the province fund either light rail or bus rapid transit on the same Main-King corridor.

Metrolinx has been reviewing those options since last spring and submitted a report to the province in November 2020.

But that comparative study — which was compiled without any City of Hamilton consultation — only looked at options that could be funded for $1 billion. That means the review compared bus rapid transit (express buses that run in dedicated, separated lanes) along most of King Street with a three-kilometre, three-stop LRT between the university and Dundurn Avenue.

Based on that review, Metrolinx was instructed to report back on what a “reasonable, incremental LRT would look like, with an associated budget,” according to a letter from the agency to Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney in February.

That work is expected to be done in early spring. But preliminary numbers suggest a nine-kilometre line between McMaster and Gage Avenue is the “minimum” reasonable length for a truncated line.

The updated review is also expected to cost out an extension to the Queenston traffic circle and Eastgate Square.

Matthew Van Dongen is a Hamilton-based reporter covering transportation for The Spectator. Reach him via email: mvandongen@thespec.com

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/2021/02/09/breaking-ontario-willing-to-build-shorter-hamilton-lrt-if-the-federal-government-covers-funding-gap.html

[ScreamingViking]

Mac to Gage is longer than I expected... figured they'd end a first phase downtown.

In one of the Spec photos, I love how the signs the anti-group is holding have "NO LRT" crossed out. Do you guys know what your message actually is??? :P

https://images.thestar.com/viwrcztFOz1grRPyMxaQMfPr7jA=/1200x774/smart/filters:cb(1612897442072)/https://www.thespec.com/content/dam/thespec/news/hamilton-region/2021/02/09/breaking-ontario-willing-to-build-shorter-hamilton-lrt-if-the-federal-government-covers-funding-gap/anti_and_pro_lrt.jpg

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Mac to The Delta, eh? That might not be too bad. Ottawa St. would benefit more if that were the terminus, but the Delta has plenty more space with those empty lots on the north side of King St.

I do wonder what the intersection will look like once one of the streets are inevitably converted back to 2-way. It used to look much more straightforward.

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83840542_2986000258084914_3293625602564685824_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SxOSF8y8SQoAX_2ezBn&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=6e0403da6386e28f2dd0c5f4e79990ed&oe=6048FD0C
(Vintage Hamilton on Facebook)

Fun fact - see those traffic lights on the hydro wires? Those were the first ever installed in Canada.

[Innsertnamehere]

The way I interpret it, they are going to talk to the feds and see how much money they are willing to contribute and base the length on that.

The line really has the most utility if it goes right to Eastgate in phase 1, but I understand the financial realities.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

The financial difficulties of dealing with a province determined do screw over it's opposition's home ridings. :P:hell:

Still though, holy shit. This could actually amount to something. The Feds want to be involved, and so long as it initially serves Mac, Downtown, and that stretch of hell from Wellington to Gage, it'll certainly be beneficial. The first stage is always the hardest, once this is built, further extensions should be much easier to get going.

Shame though that we'll be stuck with this huge empty lot for even longer now. :shrug:
https://images.thestar.com/y2-hu7eYvwnnoT5L--gzRQ--NDk=/1280x1024/smart/filters:cb(1583109330995)/https://www.thespec.com/content/dam/thespec/news/hamilton-region/2017/09/22/social-housing-eyed-for-former-city-motor-hotel-site/B823558101Z.1_20170922164718_000_GF91V6I9Q.2_Gallery.jpg

[ScreamingViking]

Taking it to at least Ottawa St. in a first phase would be great.

But given the huge jump in capital costs (for a SHORTER line, mind you) the realities will be dictated by the federal bucks and whatever LiUNA is still willing to kick in.

[ScreamingViking]

The first stage is always the hardest, once this is built, further extensions should be much easier to get going.

Shame though that we'll be stuck with this huge empty lot for even longer now. :shrug:

Agreed. But I can see the city proceeding with that redevelopment regardless. I imagine the B-Line would be beefed up a bit to support connections to an LRT no matter where its eastern end winds up.

[craftbeerdad]

pretty okay with this new iteration of LRT and seems feasible from a cost perspective considering the interest from the private sector on top of the feds hinting about pitching in last year. while i agree there could be an extension on the east end or from the airport to the harbour or something, for a foundation this will be good start.

also correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think metrolinx bought any land east of gage, this might be why it ends there too?

[BaconPoutine]

Ending the line at Gage Ave would mean that the initial phase wouldn't have the cross the railway line just after Gage Ave.

My understanding is that there's no option for crossing the railway line at grade so a tunnel or overpass would be a necessary, which is obviously a huge cost.

Edit: Existing designs for the LRT show a tunnel approx. 330m long with a maximum depth of about 7m to pass under the CP tracks at East Bend Ave and King St.

[SteelTown]

Given that Catherine McKenna is Hamilton-born, B-Line LRT supporter, and the current Infrastructure Minister I say there's a real good possibility of federal funding.

[StEC]

Just build the f@#ing thing already... such complete utter incompetence!

I see the powers that be saw my post from the other day and jumped into action, they knew I was pissed and meant business! lol

Seriously though this is very positive news!!!

[SteelTown]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3qlqQxXAAYicGP.jpg
https://twitter.com/SamCraggsCBC

Here's the old map, the Liberals was proposing to end the B-Line LRT to Ottawa St.

[craftbeerdad]

What a beautiful map! Airport to the Waterfront might be a ways off, but I can see that happening in the future (10-15 years).

[TheRitsman]

Ending the line at Gage Ave would mean that the initial phase wouldn't have the cross the railway line just after Gage Ave.

My understanding is that there's no option for crossing the railway line at grade so a tunnel or overpass would be a necessary, which is obviously a huge cost.

Edit: Existing designs for the LRT show a tunnel approx. 330m long with a maximum depth of about 7m to pass under the CP tracks at East Bend Ave and King St.

I truthfully never understood why this needed to happen. Waterloo's LRT literally shares the rails with heavy rail. They could just give the LRT priority. What do they do now? The rails can cross other rails, it's not impossible.

[Innsertnamehere]

That rail line isn’t very busy anyway isn’t it? It’s just a spur line to service the port.. there can’t be that many trains a day on it. Honestly even if the LRT didn’t have priority it probably wouldn’t be a big deal.

[Pipedreams]

Would love to see it make it to Ottawa to help further spur on developement along that street, really like where it's at now and where it seems to be going, but would rather see it built that squabble over the minutia.

Unfortunately there's zero chance our city council takes a similar attitude and I can only see them bickering endlessly about this until yet another opportunity passes the city by.

[jeicow]

I truthfully never understood why this needed to happen. Waterloo's LRT literally shares the rails with heavy rail. They could just give the LRT priority. What do they do now? The rails can cross other rails, it's not impossible.

In Waterloo, the entire LRT has to shutdown if a freight train is on the rails since LRVs aren’t rated for crashes with a train. Freight trains only travel at night which is why Waterloo will never have full overnight LRT service. The Region owned the rail corridor but there was a covenant that rail service had to be maintained to support businesses in St. Jacobs.

The original Hamilton LRT EA called for a level crossing east of Gage but the EA addendum had to introduce it as the rail company refused to permit a levelrail-rail crossing.

[Markus83]

Hilarious comment @ScreamingViking about the NO LRT signs with a cross over it. Heh

[ScreamingViking]

Yep. The issue is CP's stance on the crossing.

It's only used by 1 or 2 trains per day, I recall reading somewhere. But it's an important connection between the port/industrial zone and CP's Kinnear yard at the base of the escarpment west of Gage.

[thistleclub]

Trudeau pledges $14.9 Billion for public transit projects across the country (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-transit-fund-1.5908346)
(CBC, Feb 10 2021)

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced plans Wednesday for the federal government to spend $14.9 billion over the next eight years on public transportation projects across the country.

Part of that funding will go toward a permanent transit fund of $3 billion per year starting in 2026 and meant to provide stable and predictable funding so municipalities can plan future projects, Trudeau said.

"We need efficient and modern public transit systems that make our communities more connected," he said at a virtual announcement ahead of a meeting with the mayors of Canada's largest cities.

"While these investments are good for the economy and crucial to our recovery from this global crisis, they're also helping us achieve our climate goals."

Trudeau said the funding could be used for subway extensions, electrifying transit fleets with zero-emissions vehicles, and for walkways and cycling pathways, as well as rural mobility needs.



Read it in full here (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-transit-fund-1.5908346).

[ScreamingViking]

In other words, "the line-up starts here"

But if it will be $3bn per year starting in 2026, and total $14.9bn over the next 8 years, the annual funding will be substantially less from 2021 to 2025 and probably ramp up over that timespan. (depending on what they mean by "Part of that funding will go toward a permanent transit fund"... government budget math tends to be a puzzle ;))

Perhaps this will be managed through the Infrastructure Bank; if so, I have to wonder if the announcement includes funds already earmarked for the Bank. Regardless, a permanent annual fund is long overdue and hopefully successive governments keep it or even add to it over time.

[ScreamingViking]

More details have been added. A bunch of money is going to be allocated right away. Hamilton securing 1/4 of it, based on what the Ontario PCs are asking for, may be a tall order.

It will be interesting to see if the plan for the fund distribution to be done by project, and not based on provincial shares, will actually fly. Provincial squabbling about federal funds tends to centre around "fairness"


About $6 billion will be made available to municipalities right away for projects that are ready to go, according to the government, while the remainder will go into a $3-billion per year fund that can will be doled out on a project-by-project basis starting in 2026-27.

...

Infrastructure Minister Catherine McKenna’s spokeswoman Chantalle Aubertin says that unlike previous infrastructure commitments, the new money will not be specifically divided up between provinces, but instead put into a pot that can be accessed whenever a project is ready.
From https://www.thespec.com/ts/politics/2021/02/10/feds-promise-new-funds-for-public-transit-most-money-wont-arrive-for-years.html


The funding includes $5.9 billion in short-term funding that will be disbursed on a project-by-project basis, starting this year.
From https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-transit-fund-1.5908346

[ScreamingViking]

Ohhhhh.... here we go again :rolleyes:


Hamilton councillors want say on province’s pitch for shorter LRT line
https://www.thespec.com/news/council/2021/02/10/hamilton-councillors-want-say-on-provinces-pitch-for-shorter-lrt-line.html

By Teviah Moro
Hamilton Spectator
Wed., Feb. 10, 2021


Mayor Fred Eisenberger faces a tough sell for some city councillors as he holds out hope a shorter version of LRT gains political traction.

The city’s “official position” has been to support a fully funded LRT on the Main-King corridor, and the province’s proposal for a truncated route isn’t a “material change,” Eisenberger said Tuesday.

But councillors argued that’s not the case after learning of the Ontario government’s proposal to put $1 billion in provincial funds toward a potential McMaster-to-Gage Avenue line hinging on $1.5 billion in federal support.

“To me, it needs to come back to council to be voted on,” Coun. Judi Partridge said.

What the province is now pitching — after axing the original McMaster-to-Eastgate Square route in December 2019 — is “completely different,” said the Flamborough councillor, a steadfast critic of the project.

Coun. Brad Clark figured a “number of councillors” concerned about potential costs and the shortened route would want to revisit the debate.

Asked whether the proposed truncated line and funding model need council’s approval, a spokesperson for Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney was unclear.

“We have initiated engagement with the City of Hamilton on this matter and are looking forward to working with them to see how they can support the development of a viable LRT for Hamilton.”

Coun. Chad Collins, another consistent LRT critic, wouldn’t hazard to guess what council’s next move might be, but noted he’s no fan of the latest proposal, either. “It seems like half the project for double the cost,” said the Ward 5 councillor, noting he hadn’t yet examined the latest proposal’s details.

Even if it’s provincial and federal dollars at play, it still makes sense to invest in beefed-up bus service to serve more parts of the city, he said. “I don’t understand what the obsession is with getting this thing past the finish line with blinders on.”

Clark, who represents Stoney Creek, echoed that sentiment, arguing a shorter LRT line would only serve a “very small population.”

Partridge asked whether taxpayers would have to fund a “train for McMaster University.”

“It doesn’t make sense for me,” she said.

...

Full story here (https://www.thespec.com/news/council/2021/02/10/hamilton-councillors-want-say-on-provinces-pitch-for-shorter-lrt-line.html)

[BaconPoutine]

"About $6 billion will be made available to municipalities right away for projects that are ready to go, according to the government"

How many other municipalities have projects that are ready to go? That's the real question.

[ScreamingViking]

How many other municipalities have projects that are ready to go? That's the real question.

The other 4 Ontario is prioritizing in its "ask" are in or around Toronto (Ontario Line, Scarborough subway extension, Eglinton West LRT, and the Yonge subway extension to Richmond Hill).

As for other cities, Ottawa is planning a third phase of its LRT and KW a second one. London is trying to move ahead on a BRT network. Montreal has big transit plans with REM and other stuff. Calgary and Edmonton always seem to be expanding their systems, though I'm not up to speed on current planning. Same with Vancouver. Many cities are looking at electrifying their bus fleets too. And "shovel ready" may be a relative term.

There will be lots of hands wanting to dip into this pot of money.

[Innsertnamehere]

That initial money may go here, but it may also go to smaller projects like new bus purchases, bike lanes, new transit shelters, etc. It’s not necessarily just for major capital projects.

Remember that HSR is ramping up to build its $200 million lower city bus garage over the next few years as well.

[StEC]

“To me, it needs to come back to council to be voted on,” Coun. Judi Partridge said.

NO IT DOESN'T... I swear if our elected officials fuck this up again, there better be an uprising! :hell:

[LikeHamilton]

Don't let the politicians vote on this! Don't let them talk on it! I will be dead before this is built!

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Never in my life have I wanted to shout at a group of adults till I'm blue in the face and hoarse in the throat. :hell:

THIRTEEN YEARS AND THIS INCOMPITENT, INCAPABLE, INCOMPREHENSIBLY CLOSE-MINDED, SELF-SUBSERVIENT, SMALL-THINKING GROUP OF """POLITICIANS""" WHO'RE ONLY IN IT FOR THE COMFY PAYCHEQUE AND SMALL WORKLOAD STILL CANNOT COMPREHEND THE IDEA OF A PUBLIC WORKS PROJECT WHICH WILL BENEFIT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT THEMSELVES.

There are men on this council who have been in office since before the county was even amalgamated. They've presided over the worst economic and developmental situation in the city's history, including the time we went BANKRUPT. This is a gilded opportunity to mend the city's utter wasteland which exists between Gage & Wellington, at NO IMMEDIATE COST, and IT'S STILL A SUBJECT OF CONTENTION???

For Christ's sake, was this NOT the SINGLE ISSUE of the past election!?:hell:

Vote in 2022. The entire time my parents have lived in the city neither they or I have ever had a 2nd Alderman. What an utter CROCK.



...There, I think that got it out of me :haha:

[matt602]

I'd be in favor of dropping LRT entirely at this point in favor of HSR funding if anything less than McMaster to Queenston traffic circle is what we end up with. This fucking thing has been kicked around for almost 2 decades now while the HSR bus system limps on, struggling. I'm beyond sick of it. Either do it right the first time or take care of what we have.

[LikeHamilton]

Never in my life have I wanted to shout at a group of adults till I'm blue in the face and hoarse in the throat. :hell:

THIRTEEN YEARS AND THIS INCOMPITENT, INCAPABLE, INCOMPREHENSIBLY CLOSE-MINDED, SELF-SUBSERVIENT, SMALL-THINKING GROUP OF """POLITICIANS""" WHO'RE ONLY IN IT FOR THE COMFY PAYCHEQUE AND SMALL WORKLOAD STILL CANNOT COMPREHEND THE IDEA OF A PUBLIC WORKS PROJECT WHICH WILL BENEFIT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT THEMSELVES.

There are men on this council who have been in office since before the county was even amalgamated. They've presided over the worst economic and developmental situation in the city's history, including the time we went BANKRUPT. This is a gilded opportunity to mend the city's utter wasteland which exists between Gage & Wellington, at NO IMMEDIATE COST, and IT'S STILL A SUBJECT OF CONTENTION???

For Christ's sake, was this NOT the SINGLE ISSUE of the past election!?:hell:

Vote in 2022. The entire time my parents have lived in the city neither they or I have ever had a 2nd Alderman. What an utter CROCK.



...There, I think that got it out of me :haha:

Beautiful!! I will come and help you scream!!!!!

[craftbeerdad]

This topic amongst others really fires me up and I've always loved politics.

Does anyone know where to find information on how to run for city council (yes I've googled)?

Farr might run for mayor, if that's the case, Ward 2 becomes open. I live on the boundary of Ward 2 and 3. Not sure if you have to live specifically in the respective Ward.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

This topic amongst others really fires me up and I've always loved politics.

Does anyone know where to find information on how to run for city council (yes I've googled)?

Farr might run for mayor, if that's the case, Ward 2 becomes open. I live on the boundary of Ward 2 and 3. Not sure if you have to live specifically in the respective Ward.

I think everybody has one topic of discussion which fires them up like nothing else can, and this is certainly mine :haha: that announcement on 2019/12/14 genuinely made me the angriest I've ever been in my life. :hell::haha:

I have the feeling that if it wasn't easily found on the city's website, it's likely something you need to do in-person. :shrug: What I do know is that you don't have to live in the ward you want to represent, though it would certainly be an issue for some voters.

You might end up running for Ward 2, eh? Good to hear. The city council needs new faces. I'm also going to run... at some point. That's still a long ways off for me. This next election is going to be very interesting for certain.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/788/251/14a.jpg

[ScreamingViking]

Closer to the election date you'll probably see more info about registering, though I don't know why it should be hard to find today.

That should be early May 2022, apparently:
Candidates can’t register their campaigns for another 450 days or so, which is 15 months from now, give or take.
https://www.thespec.com/news/council/opinion/2021/02/10/one-candidate-is-already-in-who-else-might-run-for-hamilton-mayor-in-the-2022-election.html

[StEC]

Between this forum and the Hamilton Reddit it sounds like everyone wants to fire our existing and utterly incompetent city council! I'm feeling very optimistic that we elect fresh blood in our next election that will have a forward thinking vison for our city!

[Bubba9000]

** PSA: Voting politicians out is not how it works. Replacements need to be identified, supported, and elected for positive change to occur. **

It's not there yet, but I'm aiming for a bot-like response to any post or mention of "vote them out!". I feel the frustration too, but without an alternative, the outcome of this focus it actually worse. Appreciate any input.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

** PSA: Voting politicians out is not how it works. Replacements need to be identified, supported, and elected for positive change to occur. **

It's not there yet, but I'm aiming for a bot-like response to any post or mention of "vote them out!". I feel the frustration too, but without an alternative, the outcome of this focus it actually worse. Appreciate any input.

Until we have some candidates, there's not much else we can say. While I do agree with you, and everyone who says that will, "Vote them out and replace them with qualified, intelligent, trustworthy, and ambitious candidates!" is much less a catchy slogan. :P

[Pipedreams]

This is the issue with city politics: No ranked voting means the incumbant starts at a massive advantage unless there is a single challenger. The system is hell bent on keeping existing members in it until they chose to retire.

[jeicow]

Don't let the politicians vote on this! Don't let them talk on it! I will be dead before this is built!

Council still has to approve the operating and maintenance agreement with the Province, which can only be done after the bids are received. It’s when the City finally has to pony up cash. The idea that everything has been approved and just needs money is misguided.

[Bubba9000]

Until we have some candidates, there's not much else we can say. While I do agree with you, and everyone who says that will, "Vote them out and replace them with qualified, intelligent, trustworthy, and ambitious candidates!" is much less a catchy slogan. :P

I hear ya, but I'd rather be clear that there is work to be done. Simply waiting for election day won't cut it.

[ScreamingViking]

The other wrinkle will be more political: wanting the HSR to operate the system. That will rear its head again.

There are various P3 models that can be used to implement the project. Design-build-finance-operate-maintain would mean the winning bidder on the project basically takes care of everything, which is the model I believe being used for Hurontario LRT and the Ontario Line in Toronto.

Design-build-finance-maintain is what's being used for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT; the TTC will be operating it. That model would probably play more favourably for Hamilton re: the operating agreement, though Metrolinx would likely want some of the fare revenue to help finance the project (and we all know city council cries out that we can't afford to spend a dime on anything related to LRT... even if there's a greater civic benefit to be had)

[ScreamingViking]

Maureen is mostly spot on in her editorial piece. One of the big things she fails to note is that Ottawa and Waterloo Region both stepped up to the plate with municipal funds.


Ford government cheating Hamilton on promised LRT funding

https://www.thespec.com/opinion/contributors/2021/03/10/ford-government-cheating-hamilton-on-promised-lrt-funding.html

By Maureen Wilson
The Hamilton Spectator
Wed., March 10, 2021


Ontario Premier Doug Ford is short changing Hamiltonians on LRT funding to the tune of $2.66 billion. It is historic in proportion and will have a devastatingly negative impact on our city’s future. It’s a mistake that will cause Hamilton to be a drag on Ontario’s future finances and economic performance. For a premier who prides himself on taking a businesslike approach to government with a keen eye on investment returns, this betrayal is bewildering and fiscally irresponsible.

Just a recap. In 2015, the Province of Ontario committed a $1-billion capital budget for Hamilton LRT. In early 2019, the Ontario Treasury Board — the government agency that manages the provincial budget — approved an all-in 30-year budget of $3.66 billion. That $3.66 billion included the base capital cost (plus inflation since 2015) as well as 30 years of financing, operations, maintenance and life cycle costs, with some additional cushion for unexpected cost escalations.

The difference between the base capital cost and the all-in cost is similar to home ownership. The purchase price of your house is your base cost. The mortgage and ownership expenses over 30 years are your all-in costs. That house down the street sold for $500,000. Its listed price was not the accrued 30-year cost of over $1 million. This is how all major public transit investments are costed and financed by the Ontario government, except for Hamilton’s LRT.

Just weeks before cancelling the Hamilton LRT, the province signed a $4.6-billion contract over 30 years to build, operate and maintain the Hurontario-Main LRT in Mississauga — a project that was approved with a base capital cost of $1.4 billion. That ratio of base capital to 30-year cost is almost identical to the cancelled Hamilton project.

On Dec. 17, 2019, Ontario Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney rode into town and shocked everyone by announcing that the cost for Hamilton’s LRT had somehow ballooned from $1 billion to $5.5 billion and therefore the project would have to be cancelled immediately. Mulroney’s numbers crumbled under scrutiny. She conflated the base 2015 capital cost with those 30 years of financing, operation, maintenance and life cycle costs and then bolted on an additional high estimate of gross municipal costs related to the LRT.

In an effort to justify where her number came from, Mulroney circulated an independent third-party analysis that reaffirmed the $3.66 billion 30-year budget the Treasury Board had recently approved.

Now, Premier Ford says he is willing to contribute a total of $1 billion toward the full three-year cost of a revived, scaled-back Hamilton LRT. He is asking the federal government and potentially the private sector to cover his shortfall.

He claims this fulfils his promise to Hamilton. This is simply not true. The premier’s advisers are conveniently using a completely different set of accounting rules for us than they used for every other major public transit investment in the province.

Recently Premier Ford has suggested the federal government or the private sector may step in to fill this financial hole. This is simply a cynical game of bait and switch so the province can blame the feds for putting the final nail in Hamilton’s LRT coffin.

Your provincial tax dollars are going to finance LRT projects in Mississauga, Ottawa and Kitchener-Waterloo. Their local property taxpayers thank you. You are enriching their local tax base as land in and around their LRT corridors becomes more valuable and more attractive as we’ve seen in Waterloo Region where billions of new investment have followed their far-sighted commitment to LRT.

Meanwhile in Hamilton, our commercial and industrial tax base hasn’t grown significantly in years. More and more of the property tax burden is falling on homeowners and renters as our infrastructure ages.

Hamilton’s industrial tax base and hard-working people have helped build and finance much of Ontario’s infrastructure over this past century. This city and the people who call it home deserve better than the hand they’re being dealt by the Ford Government.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Amen to that. If the Tories were smart, you'd think they'd try to win over our voter base. Instead, we're just as shafted as any disgruntled Northerner.

What an utter crock. :hell:

[SteelTown]

Ontario pitches regulation to speed up construction on Hamilton’s phantom LRT project

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/2021/03/27/ontario-pitches-regulation-to-speed-up-construction-on-hamiltons-phantom-lrt-project.html

Ontario wants to use a new law to speed up construction on a resurrected Hamilton LRT that does not yet have guaranteed funding.

Or a confirmed route. Or even updated city council approval.

The Progressive Conservative government announced in February it is willing to pay $1 billion to build a shorter version of the light rail transit line it controversially cancelled 14 months ago — but only if the federal Liberals cover the rest of the estimated $2.5-billion tab.

To that end, the province is submitting LRT as a “priority project” for federal funding. But it is also proposing to use that “priority” designation to speed up eventual construction under a new law, the Building Transit Faster Act.

The law, which currently only applies to large transit projects in Toronto, provides new regulatory tools “designed to get shovels in the ground faster,” said Mike Fenn, a senior issues adviser for the Ministry of Transportation.

The proposed new regulation could, for example, enable fast-tracked land expropriations and force Hamilton property owners to seek special provincial permits for development or construction within 30 metres of the proposed LRT line.

It’s not clear exactly how or if the regulation would affect Hamilton’s own planning decisions or development approvals for the busy Main-King corridor.

The original planned LRT stretched from McMaster University on Main Street West, along King Street and all the way to Eastgate Square. The province is studying whether a shorter LRT route is feasible and more affordable.

City bureaucrats declined interview requests about the regulation, citing an ongoing analysis of provincial LRT plans and a desire to report information to councillors first.

Coun. Lloyd Ferguson said it’s frustrating to be “left in the dark” on government negotiations over LRT.

The Spectator recently reported on talks between the province and federal government over possible funding for a multibillion-dollar LRT resurrection, as well as a private-sector financing offer from construction union LIUNA.

“They haven’t told us squat in three months,” said Ferguson, who along with Coun. Chad Collins recently authored a motion calling on Metrolinx to attend council to answer questions about opaque plans for LRT 2.0.

Support for a resurrected LRT on council is split, but Ferguson argued councillors deserve the chance to debate whatever new plan is in the works regardless.

Anyone can comment on the proposed new regulation until April 23.

But Fenn said a decision to finalize the regulation “does not require municipal council agreement” — or even a funding commitment from the federal government.

The proposed regulation also states the Building Transit Faster Act aims for “streamlined” LRT land assembly.

The new act represents a potentially “scary situation” for any Hamilton landowners who remain in the way of a possible LRT line, said lawyer Shane Rayman, an expropriation expert who represented several clients along the original light rail route.

For example, transit projects designated under the act are not subject to “hearings of necessity,” an otherwise required opportunity for landowners to challenge the need for a planned expropriation.

The act also gives Metrolinx “broad rights of access” that could allow testing or even cutting down trees on land that has not yet been purchased, he said.

Metrolinx had already bought 60 properties before the original planned 14-kilometre LRT was cancelled. Another 30 full properties would have been needed for the original route.

[NortheastWind]

Ontario Ministry of Transportation is seeking feedback on the Hamilton LRT project.
https://twitter.com/ONtransport/status/1376534774911807494

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Ontario Ministry of Transportation is seeking feedback on the Hamilton LRT project.
https://twitter.com/ONtransport/status/1376534774911807494

Because the last 14 years haven't yielded sufficient information :uhh:

Hopefully the BTFA lives up to it's name...

[Markus83]

You can download the pdf of this bill of the B.T.F.A. 2020 from this page.

https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-42/session-1/bill-171

[matt602]

It's still hilarious to me that they canceled it 2 years ago and now they're scrambling to fast track it. This province is a joke, no matter who is in charge.

[Innsertnamehere]

It's still hilarious to me that they canceled it 2 years ago and now they're scrambling to fast track it. This province is a joke, no matter who is in charge.

The "cancel" was always s thing that was pushed by Skelly. Somehow Ford agreed to it, and, well, they saw the backlash. I really don't think they anticipated such a fierce reaction. Since then (it's actually only been a little over a year), the PCs have been backtracking.

It's also a convenient excuse for them to cut the majority of the cost of their books. Before they were liable for a ~$3 billion cost of construction, now it's conveniently just $1 billion by a bit of wordsmithing.

With a push from the city and Metrolinx to keep the LRT, they are trying to line the project up for a good chunk of federal COVID infrastructure spending. They are actually doing this on a few projects - the Yonge Subway extension is proposing to add or remove stations depending on how much funding the feds cough up.


I really hope the feds give enough cash for the whole line. Anything short of Eastgate is going to give up a lot of ridership and force transfers until it can get built.

[thistleclub]

‘What if I wanted bus rapid transit?’ — Hamilton council not ready to endorse fast-tracked LRT pitched by province (https://outline.com/MGBBGa)
(Hamilton Spectator, Matthew Van Dongen, Apr 8 2021)

City councillors have asked for more time to weigh in on a provincial plan to designate Hamilton’s still-theoretical LRT a “priority project” under the law — and at least a few are ready to derail the proposed light rail resurrection.

The Tory government announced in February it is willing to pay $1 billion to build a shorter version of the LRT it controversially cancelled 15 months ago — but only if the federal Liberals cover the rest of the tab.

Ontario is submitting LRT as a “priority project” for federal funding and proposing to use that designation to speed up construction under a new law, the Building Transit Faster Act. Council has until April 23 to comment on the regulation.

But some councillors complained Wednesday they don’t know enough about evolving provincial plans to endorse or reject a resurrected LRT, let alone comment on a law designed to fast-track construction.

“What if I didn’t want LRT on the priority list? What if I wanted bus rapid transit?” asked Coun. Brad Clark, a longtime project opponent. Councillors Judi Partridge, Tom Jackson and Brenda Johnson also reiterated concerns or outright opposition to a resurrected LRT line at Wednesday’s meeting.

Coun. Lloyd Ferguson, a past LRT supporter, questioned why council has not been consulted on major changes the province is proposing to the original 14-kilometre line from McMaster University to Eastgate Square.

In February, the province suggested the first phase of LRT could end near Gage Park in order to save money. But even a shortened line would cost $2.5 billion-plus to build. “I need to know whether we’re going to be on the hook (for cost overruns,)” Ferguson said.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger, who is championing LRT, argued ongoing negotiations to resurrect the project “shouldn’t come as any surprise to anyone” given the findings of a provincial task force last year recommending rapid transit.

Read it in full here (https://outline.com/MGBBGa).

[ScreamingViking]

Dougie and friends probably figured council was likely to respond this way, eventually putting the project into a coffin.

And then they can say "hey folks, we tried but the city didn't want it" and their hands will be clean.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

I can't believe city council still has any say at all at this point... This should be a quick switch response to something the city already approved

[Innsertnamehere]

I can't believe city council still has any say at all at this point... This should be a quick switch response to something the city already approved

The problem is that with the line cut back to Gage, it would likely lose support of a few east end councillors.

The last minute change in the liberal plan to extend it to Eastgate from Queenston Circle was because they realized council wouldn't support it otherwise.

I agree this should be out of council's hands at this point - just like how the Toronto Subway projects were taken from the hands of that council (much to their behest). For whatever reason, the nature of municipal politics seems to make councils very fickle creatures that struggle to properly manage large scale projects like this.

[TheRitsman]

The problem is that with the line cut back to Gage, it would likely lose support of a few east end councillors.

The last minute change in the liberal plan to extend it to Eastgate from Queenston Circle was because they realized council wouldn't support it otherwise.

I agree this should be out of council's hands at this point - just like how the Toronto Subway projects were taken from the hands of that council (much to their behest). For whatever reason, the nature of municipal politics seems to make councils very fickle creatures that struggle to properly manage large scale projects like this.

It's because rather than advocate for their entire city, municipal councillors typically advocate for their own ward alone. The only person expected to advocate for the city as a whole is the mayor. We've seen this, time and time again, that suburban councillors oppose downtown things, while downtown councillors approve much of the suburbs desires to attempt to get at least something through. A project that covers many ward is too complex for a municipal council containing mostly lucky locals, and a few actual idiots. At least Toronto has a large council so the literal morons are kept at bay, but in Hamilton we have like 5 or 6 way out of their element councillors.

[ScreamingViking]

I think Ferguson really only gave his support because he wanted council's backing for his pet project in Ancaster, the performing arts centre. He seems to be forgetting about that tradeoff.

Collins has never really been supportive of the LRT either, despite voting in favour. He's now changing tunes.

Clark has waffled on his support, and now seems to be a firm believer that BRT is the better option. But what he means by that may just be more express buses on more routes, not dedicated bus lanes that a true BRT system requires.

Others like Whitehead and Partridge really don't have a clue, but claim to know best. Whitehead even did his own report on the potential benefits of LRT vs. BRT (http://terrywhitehead.ca/hamilton-lrt/), which was criticized by people who know very well how to do balanced empirical research (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/terry-whitehead-lrt-1.3693863).


For whatever reason, Hamilton councils have for a long time been among of the worst in the country (if not THE worst) for dithering and dragging out big decisions. We see it with the LRT issue, it happened with the stadium, it happened with the Red Hill Valley Parkway (across decades!), and other things. They've also been really stellar at looking gift horses in the mouth and passing on offers from higher levels of government... Hamilton could have had a skytrain-type system in the early 1980s, fully funded by the province, but said no thanks. Had that been built, we'd probably have seen the system incrementally expanded over the years and I doubt there would be much debate about doing so because the benefits and impacts would be clear.

It's maddening.

[craftbeerdad]

"The new phone book's here. The new phone book's here!"


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/rapid-transit-federal-1.6021947


The federal government is giving $12 billion to transit projects in the Greater Toronto Area, including "one rapid transit project" in Hamilton.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made the announcement in a media briefing on Tuesday.

"We're going to provide major support for rapid transit in Hamilton, for a line that will go from McMaster University in the west, through downtown, all the way to Eastgate Centennial Park in Stoney Creek," he said.

The province recently revived a multi-billion-dollar light rail transit (LRT) system in Hamilton in February.

The provincial government said it would put money toward the project, as long as the federal government chipped in too.

[jonny24]

"The new phone book's here. The new phone book's here!"


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/rapid-transit-federal-1.6021947

Holy crap, that's very clear and explicit statement of support. It's happening!

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Oh boy, time to watch the clock slowly tick to 1.

Couldn't be more excited.

[catcher_of_cats]

I truly want to believe that this project will be restarted with shovels in the ground by next construction season. But my gut says that someone like a certain mountain MPP or certain city councilors will will find a way to infinitely delay this project through bogus roadblocks. I don't want to be pessimistic but living in Hamilton has made me this way.

[Innsertnamehere]

While some funding was expected, its great to see the full length original line is being retained. It’s super important that the east end reaches Eastgate in the first phase. It’s good to see that’s being retained.

[urban_planner]

When it come too LRT I'm Hamilton and looking at comments on social media, it really exposes how ignorant people are on the subject. It's actually really unfortunate. As much as we like to blame city hall for this a lot of the blame needs to be put on residents. I'm not saying this across the board but people complaining about it without actually having any really knowledge. They just continue to whine about it not serving every part of the city, or a train to nowhere etc etc.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

They just continue to whine about it not serving every part of the city, or a train to nowhere etc etc.

God, I hate that sentiment. What exactly do they define as nowhere? The University? 2 shopping malls? a dozen commercial avenues? The ENTIRE lower city??

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

The CBC is hosting a live announcement now. It's focus is on the Torontonian transport investments, our formal announcement is set to be the 13th.

What we do now know is our project shall be

Rapid - They're not just buying new busses.

Far-reaching - It shall extend from University Plaza to Eastgate. No stopping at Gage.

The cost shall be evenly divided between the province and feds - 1,700,000,000 each, with the city responsible for operating costs.

The HSR might end up with an SR again after all.

[jonny24]

When it come too LRT I'm Hamilton and looking at comments on social media, it really exposes how ignorant people are on the subject. It's actually really unfortunate. As much as we like to blame city hall for this a lot of the blame needs to be put on residents. I'm not saying this across the board but people complaining about it without actually having any really knowledge. They just continue to whine about it not serving every part of the city, or a train to nowhere etc etc.

Whiners are always loudest. I think the results from the municipal election show that they're only a noisy minority, with the only-AntiLRT-and-nothing-else candidate only getting 38% compared to Fred at 54%.

I know that the individual councillors vote makes a big difference, but I have to believe the support is really there.

I say "have to", because otherwise.... I despair at the future :shrug:

Lets go LRT :cheers:

[Crapht]

Far-reaching - It shall extend from University Plaza to Eastgate. No stopping at Gage.

The HSR might end up with an SR again after all.


Has there been a change or did you mean to say University? I haven’t seen plans that bring to University Plaza.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Has there been a change or did you mean to say University? I haven’t seen plans that bring to University Plaza.

Yes you're right, I should've just said McMaster. The plans have always been from Mac -> Eastgate, but the 10 goes to University Plaza. Of course, we don't know the specifics yet. Not till Thursday.

[LikeHamilton]

Has there been a change or did you mean to say University? I haven’t seen plans that bring to University Plaza.

It's McMaster to Eastgate.

[SteelTown]

During a joint provincial-federal media briefing on Tuesday, Catherine McKenna, federal minister of infrastructure and communities, said $10.7 billion would go toward four priority subway projects in the GTA.

She said more information on Hamilton would be coming later this week.

"Stay tuned, I'll see you in the Hammer, I think on Thursday," she said.

"We'll see you at our next announcement," echoed Caroline Mulroney, Ontario's minister of transportation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/rapid-transit-federal-1.6021947

Looks like this Thursday there will be more information on Hamilton's LRT.

[TheHonestMaple]

Fingers crossed this thing actually happens this time

[ScreamingViking]

Fingers crossed this thing actually happens this time

Toes too. :fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed:

It will be interesting to see the math, given that "new" and misrepresented numbers were the big reason behind the Cons deciding to pull the plug. :irked:

Perhaps they'll even let it get to the bid review stage this time. :rolleyes:

We should expect some Hamilton councillors to bleat that, once again, they were not consulted on any of this. That there are not enough details. That we cannot afford anything except a totally free LRT ride. Blah blah wah wah blah... :lynchmob:

:gaah:

[jonny24]

Toes too. :fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed::fingerscrossed:

It will be interesting to see the math, given that "new" and misrepresented numbers were the big reason behind the Cons deciding to pull the plug. :irked:

Perhaps they'll even let it get to the bid review stage this time. :rolleyes:

We should expect some Hamilton councillors to bleat that, once again, they were not consulted on any of this. That there are not enough details. That we cannot afford anything except a totally free LRT ride. Blah blah wah wah blah... :lynchmob:

:gaah:

Detailed bid submissions would go a long way to providing details :D Wonder if they've ever thought that....

[ScreamingViking]

Detailed bid submissions would go a long way to providing details :D Wonder if they've ever thought that....

Yep. And they were afraid of it. :rolleyes:

Watch the bids inflate based on the money available now. We won't know it for sure, but it's bound to happen. :haha:

[drpgq]

I'm glad it seems to be going back to the higher levels of government building it and the city funding operations. Once the tracks are built, operating it is cheaper than all the buses they'll replace. I always thought that was the sell for city residents, along with trying to get a commensurate piece of the capital transit pie that Toronto gets.

I'm hoping that the city also runs it, rather than some of the operational money going to some Metrolinx bureaucrats.

[StEC]

I'm giddy with excitement and feel confident shovels will be in the ground next spring! :worship:

[SteelTown]

Randy Rath @rath_randy

Hamiltons LRT is proceeding. Funding for the project from McMaster U to Stoney Creek will be split 50/50 between the Province and the Feds each contributing $1.7 billion with the City picking up operating costs. I am told shovels could be in the ground very quickly.

The LRT will be cover 14 km with 17 stops.
Goal is to have shovels in the ground by 2023.
Will create 7000 construction jobs.
No new enviro assessment. RFP will be issued ASAP.
City must agree to covering operating costs.

https://twitter.com/rath_randy

[TheHonestMaple]

Randy Rath @rath_randy

Hamiltons LRT is proceeding. Funding for the project from McMaster U to Stoney Creek will be split 50/50 between the Province and the Feds each contributing $1.7 billion with the City picking up operating costs. I am told shovels could be in the ground very quickly.

The LRT will be cover 14 km with 17 stops.
Goal is to have shovels in the ground by 2023.
Will create 7000 construction jobs.
No new enviro assessment. RFP will be issued ASAP.
City must agree to covering operating costs.

https://twitter.com/rath_randy

Construction not starting until 2023? hmm, bad idea. Lots of time for the city to screw this up...

[Bubba9000]

Just need to award the contract before 2022 elections. It's gonna be tight.

[jonny24]

Yep. And they were afraid of it. :rolleyes:

Watch the bids inflate based on the money available now. We won't know it for sure, but it's bound to happen. :haha:

They'll already be inflated just due to material costs, but hopefully that can be mitigated slightly by not have to carry extra for COVID measures? :shrug:But yeah, there's probably going to be some "these guys keep flaking" costs built in to the bids.

[matt602]

If the province/feds aren't able to take control of the project entirely, there is gonna be a HUGE shitshow at council over the operating costs. On the plus side, this means the HSR would be operating the line instead of Metrolinx and I'm really excited about "Hamilton Street Railway" actually making sense again.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

On the plus side, this means the HSR would be operating the line instead of Metrolinx and I'm really excited about "Hamilton Street Railway" actually making sense again.

Could be beneficial for revenue, as well. I already know I'll go out of my way to ride it every chance I get. :notacrook:

Took them 80 years, but the HSR might just operate an SR again. :P

[ScreamingViking]

So much angst about operating costs.

Guess what councillors... buses cost money to operate and maintain too. More of them are needed to provide the same service/capacity as rail-based transit. They have a shorter lifespan than light rail vehicles, probably needing to be replaced 2 or 3 times more often. Wear and tear increasingly costs more over time (not that LRT is immune from that, but it won't take the same pounding buses do on the roads).

Those arguing for a broader BRT system must realize that won't be free to operate either, if they're actually serious about building one.

The business case for this project needs to be updated (I believe the last time that was done was in 2015, and I think that was just the numbers for the LRT not the comparators) but someone needs to show our councillors the relevant numbers for each, side by side. I.e., here is what it costs for LRT across the next 30 years, and here is what it costs for an equivalent level of service with buses; here's what you can do with the buses formerly used in the corridor that will be replaced by the LRT; and here is the projected revenue for each of the scenarios.

Oh, and while we're at it, let's consider how the development pattern is shifted with mass transit along the city's most heavily used bus corridor, and what that means for capital and operating expenditures for other city infrastructure and services.

These folks are good at picking gnat shit out of pepper. How about taking a wholistic view?

[LikeHamilton]

Hamilton LRT is 'going to happen,' says federal infrastructure minister

Catherine McKenna says $3.4B deal for the light-rail transit system is on the table

CBC News · Posted: May 12, 2021 1:47 PM ET

A day after the federal government announced it would help fund a rapid transit system in Hamilton, Infrastructure and Communities Minister Catherine McKenna confirmed her party struck a deal with the province for light-rail transit (LRT).

In a media briefing on Wednesday, McKenna said residents should be confident that Hamilton LRT will become a reality.

"It's going to happen 'cause we have a deal," said the Ottawa Centre MP, who was born in Hamilton.

"You have the commitment from the federal government and the province to go ahead and make significant investments in the full line, and that is a shovel-ready project."

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Tuesday the Liberal government would spend $12 billion on transit in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area.

Specifically, he said the money would cover a line connecting McMaster University in the west and Eastgate Centennial Park in Stoney Creek. He didn't say whether the funding was for LRT or bus rapid transit (BRT) system.

The province has already pledged to put $1 billion toward the project.

McKenna said the agreement is a "$3.4-billion deal that is on the table" and the project still needs the "city to be on side."

"This is a great opportunity, and I think Minister [Caroline] Mulroney would agree that we are very serious about this project," she said about Ontario's transportation minister.

"This is about building an ambitious city. This is about good jobs right now at a time when we need good jobs and we need to restart our economy," said McKenna. "This is about climate change, this is about getting cars off the road and people into their homes faster."

Horwath says LRT revival 'great victory'
Hamilton's LRT system has been in the works since 2007, when the city used a Metrolinx grant for an environmental assessment.

The plan involves a 14-kilometre system that runs alternately down Main and King streets from McMaster to Eastgate, although the plan has had at least three other iterations since 2007.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger has been advocating for the project since 2014, but some city councillors are opposed to it.

McKenna and Mulroney will make an official announcement Thursday at 10 a.m. ET.

In a Tuesday media release, Ontario NDP Leader and Hamilton Centre MPP Andrea Horwath said the revival of the Hamilton LRT was a "great victory."

But she added that the project was "ripped off the rails" in December 2019. That's when Mulroney cancelled the project, saying it was over budget and Hamilton couldn't afford it.

"I'll be watching closely for the details, but one thing is certain: It's time to get shovels in the ground, and make people's commutes better with the Hamilton LRT," said Horwath.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/lrt-hamilton-ottawa-funding-1.6023808

[lachlanholmes]

Very doubtful that HSR will be operating the LRT. As far as I know, the only certainty is that the City will be on the hook for the operating expenses.

The project has always been envisioned as DBFOM (design, build, finance, operate, and maintain), which means that whatever consortium wins the eventual RFP will operate and maintain the line for however many years the contract states (I believe a 30 year term is standard for LRT projects in Ontario), and will be paid for doing so - this is what makes up the operational cost.

I am not well versed in procurement enough to say whether there is anything concrete that prevents the HSR from joining one of the consortiums bidding for the project, and thus becoming responsible for operations and maintenance, but from a private consortium point of view, I can definitely see how involving a government agency (like HSR) within the consortium could serve to slow down or complicate their bid.

All of this brings me back a few years to when then-councillor Matthew Green tried to ensure that HSR would run the system — and it was subsequently made clear by some folks who are more in depth on these intricacies than I am that to do so would require blowing up the DBFOM procurement model, endangering the project, and delaying it further. Unfortunately, the time spent re-debating the procurement model and potential HSR operation of the LRT served to delay the project anyway. I know I have seen it elsewhere that without this unnecessary councillor-induced delay, an agreement could have been signed prior to the 2018 provincial election.

-

FYI: Infrastructure Canada has released their media advisory for tomorrow's official announcement (https://www.canada.ca/en/canada-infrastructure-bank/news/2021/05/media-advisory--hamilton-ontario.html).

HAMILTON, ON, May 12, 2021 /CNW/ - Members of the media are invited to attend an important virtual infrastructure event with the Honourable Catherine McKenna, Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, the Honourable Filomena Tassi, Minister of Labour and Member of Parliament for Hamilton – West – Ancaster – Dundas, and the Honourable Caroline Mulroney, Ontario Minister of Transportation.

Other representatives in attendance:
- His Worship Fred Eisenberger, Mayor of Hamilton
- Joseph Mancinelli, International Vice President, LiUNA
- Phil Verster, President and CEO of Metrolinx
- David Farrar, President of McMaster University
- Rob MacIsaac, President of Hamilton Health Sciences
- Keanin Loomis, President of the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce
- Michael Lindsay, President and CEO of Infrastructure Ontario

Date: Thursday, May 13, 2021

Time: 10:00 am EDT

Zoom event: To attend the virtual event, members of the media are asked to register by sending an email to infc.media.infc@canada.ca.

Livestream: Members of the public are invited to view the live announcement on the Infrastructure Canada’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/InfrastructureCanadaENG/live

[King&James]

Interesting that Joseph Mancinelli will be in attendance, maybe there is another hook with Liuna chipping in to develop hubs