Rapid Transit

[thistleclub]

FWIW, the fuzzy-arrow action plan ( http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/ontariobudgets/2015/ch1b.html#c1-9) in the recent budget starts Hamilton’s project in 2018-2019 — an election year.

The absence of “EA/Design” on that arrow could also be seen as a sign that they plan on going back to the drawing board, thereby buying themselves time (if nothing else, a revised route would presumably trigger another EA).

So as long as Ontario Liberals remain in power when we break ground and policy priorities don't get scrambled in the meantime, all is good.

[Beedok]

Making the LRT anything less than Eastgate to McMaster makes the entire thing pointless, as far as I'm concerned. There are tons of McMaster students who I see boarding the B-Line bus at Eastgate who probably come in from Stoney Creek. Sometimes it's full already by the time it pulls up at Nash Road toward downtown.

If we make the LRT route stubby or make it go all over the place, it loses it's "express" nature and just becomes a mostly useless white elephant that we'll be stuck with for years until it's expanded to usefulness. Do it right the first time.

Wasn't it expected to drop the travel time from 35 minutes to 30 minutes? Not really a major express thing. The issue is more capacity than speed along the B-Line anyway no?

[thistleclub]

The 10 B-Line schedule (https://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/E8B859CD-17AA-4713-90EC-02C4492D01C0/0/JAN2015_Beeline.pdf ) currently puts that route’s travel time between McMaster and Ottawa North at 21 minutes, or an average of around 27 km/h over 9.3km.

Metrolinx’s Hamilton King-Main Benefits Case (http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/projectevaluation/benefitscases/Benefits_Case-Hamilton.pdf
) (Feb 2010) assessed its Phased LRT option (Option 3, McMaster to Ottawa Street) as a 17-minute trip, average speed 34km/h or close to twice the average HSR speed.

The HSR Operational Review (http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/9D868772-92BE-4A69-B874-42A1081726CD/0/TTRFinalReport.pdf
) (March 2010) made note of the sub-par average speeds of the transit system. Page 19:

“HSR service speeds are in almost all cases less than 40 km/hr, below the posted maximum road speed of 50 km/hr. Further, most of the downtown area (below the escarpment) has average speeds of under 20 km/hr. Overall, HSR’s average system speed is 18.7 km/hr, which is below both the national average and HSR’s peer group (CUTA 2008 Canadian Transit Fact Book). Given the large number of routes that run through the downtown area, any action that would increase average vehicle speed (such as transit priority measures) will benefit a large number of riders, and potentially lead to fewer vehicles being required.”

[ScreamingViking]

Having a spur line to Hunter GO Station probably won't cost much since it's closer to King. But if any station the Harbour West GO Station is likely to have all day GO Train service so it'll be pricey having a spur line up to the Harbour West GO Station, gonna have to pass several blocks, Wilson, Cannon, Barton and basically to Strachan.

The currently announced plan (http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2015/04/ontario-improving-go-transit-service-along-all-corridors.html) is all-day service to Hunter, peak service at both:
Two-way, 60-minute service or better on weekdays, evenings and weekends for:
- Hamilton on the Lakeshore West line (all day) between the Hamilton GO Centre and Union Station

Peak period, peak direction service on weekdays every:
- 15 minutes on the Lakeshore West line between Hamilton GO Centre and Union Station
- 30 minutes on the Lakeshore West line between James Street North station and Union Station

I could see future all-day service stopping at West Harbour, especially if extensions into Stoney Creek and beyond happen. Perhaps hourly service to each station, with staggered timing so trains run every 30 minutes across the two.

[Azh]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum but have been following development news in Hamilton for a while. On the subject of LRT connection to GO station, wasn't there talk about just extending the B-line past Eastgate to the proposed Confederation Station? That would be pretty easy to do I think. Or does the LRT have to connect to the existing GO station/ West Harbor Station? Does anyone know the answer to this?

[thistleclub]

On the subject of LRT connection to GO station, wasn't there talk about just extending the B-line past Eastgate to the proposed Confederation Station? Or does the LRT have to connect to the existing GO station/ West Harbor Station?

Everything is perpetually up for grabs.

Existing Hamilton GO Centre is ~350m south of King & Hughson.
Existing McMaster GO Terminal is ~900m north of Main & Emerson.
West Harbour GO Station under construction is ~1.1km north of King & James.
Hypothetical Confederation GO Station (https://www.google.ca/maps/place/43%C2%B014'30.0%22N+79%C2%B045'33.0%22W/@43.241667,-79.759167,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en) is ~1.6km north of Eastgate Square.
Taken together, those spurs would add around 4km to the B-Line.

On the face of it, the cost of the "Confederation spur" would appear to be roughly equivalent to adding spurs to the two existing stations.

[HillStreetBlues]

On the face of it, the cost of the "Confederation spur" would appear to be roughly equivalent to adding spurs to the two existing stations.

If not cheaper. Additionally, there would be a great opportunity for a park-and-ride (though I guess that's true at Eastgate too) at Confederation.

[thistleclub]

Thumbnail terminus demographics via Eastgate Square Market Summary (http://www.eastgatesquare.ca/pages/eastgate-leasing):

Total Population
1km: 13,196
3km: 61,907
5km: 117,052
Total Households
1km: 5,306
3km: 25,484
5km: 47,779
Household Average Income
1km: $65,369
3km: $71,707
5km: $76,978

[mishap]

On the face of it, the cost of the "Confederation spur" would appear to be roughly equivalent to adding spurs to the two existing stations.

A cheaper option might be to have a Barton Express service through West Harbour and Centennial, plus relocate the McMaster GO terminal closer to Main with added capacity for HSR buses.

With a little bit of creativity, Hughson St can be turned into a barebones busway between the two downtown train stations. Just restrict it to immediately local traffic (ie. on that block).

[thistleclub]

A cheaper option might be to have a Barton Express service through West Harbour and Centennial, plus relocate the McMaster GO terminal closer to Main with added capacity for HSR buses.

With a little bit of creativity, Hughson St can be turned into a barebones busway between the two downtown train stations. Just restrict it to immediately local traffic (ie. on that block).

That would seem to be a pretty obvious and cost-effective solution — something like a tighter 12 Wentworth. A 15-minute headway is probably more than adequate to demand (considering that the train service will be rush-hour rudimentary for the foreseeable future). And FWIW, Confederation and McMaster GO seem to be low-priority hubs for Metrolinx, which has focused locally on Gateway Hubs West Harbour/Hamilton-LIUNA (http://www.metrolinx.com/mobilityhubs/en/map/mobility_hubs_map/MHP_Hamilton-LIUNA.pdf) and Mohawk & Upper James (http://www.metrolinx.com/mobilityhubs/en/map/mobility_hubs_map/MHP_Mohawk-James.pdf) as well as one Anchor Hub, Downtown Hamilton (http://www.metrolinx.com/mobilityhubs/en/map/mobility_hubs_map/MHP_DowntownHamilton.pdf ).

Also on a connectivity note, it will be interesting to see how/if the province weighs the transfer math around hubs/spurs. The co-fare math (https://www.hamilton.ca/Hamilton.Portal/Templates/Generic1.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fCityServices%2fTransit%2fFares%2band%2bConditions%2fPRESTOHSR%2ehtm&NRNODEGUID=%7b2D5E3685-4440-44A6-B2DE-FDE39C411AFF%7d&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#8. How will fares work when I transfer to GO Transit?) on HSR-operated LRT trains connecting with GO train and bus transfers (and vice-versa) would presumably be a wash if the traveller is using the system for the return route as well. Otherwise, the balance is more fraught: Presto’s per-passenger fare subsidy comes out to roughly that of the average HSR fare ($1.37 in 2007, according to the 2010 HSR Operational Review (http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/9D868772-92BE-4A69-B874-42A1081726CD/0/TTRFinalReport.pdf), with an observed transfer rate of 56%). GO can accommodate those revenue tides more easily than the HSR can.

[king10]

LRT Funding?

http://buff.ly/1HGG1LZ

[thistleclub]

Via the Spec (http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5643062-lrt-announcement-imminent-for-hamilton):

"A number of large stumbling blocks were at issue at that point, sources said, including whether the HSR or Metrolinx would operate the LRT and whether the province would build the entire proposed route from McMaster University to Eastgate Square."

There's a seldom-discussed potential outcome: Hamilton gets LRT, the province covers capital costs and Metrolinx operates the LRT system — so the associated revenue vanishes from the HSR’s coffers.

[MalcolmTucker]

Having the asset sit on the province's books really helps the province out from a budget balance perspective. P3 with a private operator, with the city receiving fare revenue but then paying the operating and maintenance costs, and the province paying the capital cost.

Isn't this what is happening with Eglinton? I know there was a fight over who did exactly what with that project a few years back.

[matt602]

I thought Eglinton was being operated by the TTC?

[HillStreetBlues]

There's a seldom-discussed potential outcome: Hamilton gets LRT, the province covers capital costs and Metrolinx operates the LRT system — so the associated revenue vanishes from the HSR’s coffers.

I think that would be a better outcome for riders...

[MalcolmTucker]

I thought Eglinton was being operated by the TTC?

The project is a Design, Build, Finance and Maintain (DBFM) according to Infrastructure Ontario (took a bit to find out) (http://www.infrastructureontario.ca/Templates/Project.aspx?id=2147491907&mode=1&langtype=1033). So operate, yes. So it looks like the TTC gets to drive the vehicles and set service hours, though there would be a variable fee they would need to pay for variable costs of maintenance.

[lucasmascotto]

In case you weren't able to access the full article, here it is:

The province is expected to announce support for a transformative and contentious light rail transit project in Hamilton as early as Tuesday, The Spectator has learned.

News of the impending announcement started circulating among city and business leaders on the weekend. The timing of the big reveal was thought to hinge in part on co-ordinating schedules of various political leaders this week.

Sources at both levels of government said Monday a funding announcement was imminent for at least a portion of Hamilton's requested $811-million, 14-kilometre LRT line. The plan will include a spur line to at least one downtown-area GO station at the province's insistence.

A fast-tracked timeline is also expected to be confirmed for expansion of GO Train service to a new station planned near Centennial Parkway.

Plenty of questions remain outstanding, however – including who would run the LRT line, how much provincial cash is available and how quickly it would be spent.

The recent provincial budget suggested rapid transit cash for Hamilton is slated for 2018 or later – in effect, beyond the next election. The province has also already committed more than $15 billion of a 10-year, $16-billion pot of rapid transit funding to other projects, including GO electrification and Mississauga LRT.

After the budget, however, Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca tweeted to say he looked forward to sharing "in the coming weeks" how the province's commitment to rapid transit investment would benefit Hamilton.

The Spectator reported earlier this month on intense, behind-the-scenes negotiations among provincial and city officials over Hamilton's rapid transit cash request – which also included $302 million for a garage and new buses.

A number of large stumbling blocks were at issue at that point, sources said, including whether the HSR or Metrolinx would operate the LRT and whether the province would build the entire proposed route from McMaster University to Eastgate Square.

Past planning for the so-called "B-line" along the Main, King and Queenston corridor also looked at shorter LRT options such as Mac to the Ottawa Street area.

Although the city has never withdrawn its official request for LRT cash, support around the council table has wavered.

Several incumbent councillors who initially voted to ask for the cash campaigned against LRT during the recent municipal election.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger wouldn't comment Monday morning on whether an announcement was imminent.

But the LRT supporter has consistently said Premier Kathleen Wynne promised him behind closed doors earlier this year to fully fund LRT capital costs.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton LRT announcement will be for a shorter line

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/hamilton-lrt-announcement-will-be-for-a-shorter-line-1.3086567

The province is expected to make a light rail transit (LRT) announcement Tuesday morning, but sources say it will be for a shorter route than the city initially expected.

The line, which was originally supposed to be 13.5 kilometres from McMaster University to Eastgate Square, will likely stop at the City Motor Hotel property at 55 Queenston Rd, two sources have told CBC Hamilton. That means the planned route will be about 11.3 kilometres.

Hamilton has been asking the province to fund full capital funding for an LRT, and used a Metrolinx grant to fund 30 per cent of the design costs. Metrolinx estimates the full cost of building LRT would be about $1.4 billion in 2014 costs.

........

Mark Cripps, an assistant to Ted McMeekin MPP for Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Westdale, tweeted earlier: "Tomorrow will be an historic day for my city."

The announcement will be around 7:40 a.m. at University Hall at McMaster University.

[king10]

To the Queenston Traffic Circle? This needs to go to eastgate. Is the city going to contribute the last 2.2km?

Honestly I dont even think we need it. Improve bus service for half the cost and use the cost savings on other needed infastructure projects.

[SteelTown]

Premier Wynne will make the LRT announcement at @McMasterU at 8 am on Tuesday It'll be livestreamed at http://original.livestream.com/premierofontario

[SteelTown]

To the Queenston Traffic Circle? This needs to go to eastgate. Is the city going to contribute the last 2.2km?

Honestly I dont even think we need it. Improve bus service for half the cost and use the cost savings on other needed infastructure projects.

Sure, let's see if Chad Collins and Doug Conley will be complaining that they aren't getting a piece of the LRT pie now....

[interr0bangr]

Can't believe we're actually getting an LRT. After all the city hall fuckups and political mind games.

Congrats people, even if it isn't quite as long as it should be!

Now I hope the spur ends up looping down Barton to the hospital, could give Barton Village a huge boost.

[mattgrande]

Sure, let's see if Chad Collins and Doug Conley will be complaining that they aren't getting a piece of the LRT pie now....

https://twitter.com/Chad_Collins5/status/602926643133489152

[Berklon]

To the Queenston Traffic Circle? This needs to go to eastgate. Is the city going to contribute the last 2.2km?

I hope the city covers the last 2.2km... The Queenston traffic circle area is not a logical end of the line and doesn't serve a major mall, a major intersection, Stoney Creek and a big population of varying incomes.

[SteelTown]

https://twitter.com/Chad_Collins5/status/602926643133489152

Further proof this is the best deal at the given time.

[Berklon]

https://twitter.com/Chad_Collins5/status/602926643133489152

if the info is accurate, East Hamilton businesses have dodged a bullet!

Yea, why would businesses want potential customers to easily get to their stores with public transit? Maybe they should build a moat around the area - keep those pesky customers away.

[LikeHamilton]

My wife recieved this today.

Heads Up: Hamilton Rapid Transit Announcement

When: Tuesday, May 26th @ 7:40AM

Where: Convocation Hall, 2nd floor University Hall, McMaster University, 1280 Main Street West.

What: The Premier of Ontario Kathleen Wynne, Minister of Transportation Steven Del Duca and MPP for Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Westdale and Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing Ted McMeekin are making a formal funding announcement on the Rapid Transit project request from the City of Hamilton.


Please join the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce and members of the Hamilton Community to welcome this funding announcement from the Province of Ontario.

Please RSVP by return email if you'd be able to join us, seating capacity is limited.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

https://twitter.com/Chad_Collins5/status/602926643133489152

I don't know what to say - it's just really, really embarrassing.

Get a real job, Chad and leave the work of city building to the big boys and girls - you're well out of your depth.

[LikeHamilton]

So it's up to $1 Billion for LRT from McMaster University to Queenston Traffic Circle with an ultimate extension to Eastgate Square. Procurement for LRT starting in 2017 and construction starting in 2019.

[LikeHamilton]

It will connect directly to the West Harbour GO Station.

"A future, high-order pedestrian connection to the Hamilton GO Centre Station?"

[HillStreetBlues]

So it's up to $1 Billion for LRT from McMaster University to Queenston Traffic Circle with an ultimate extension to Eastgate Square. Procurement for LRT starting in 2017 and construction starting in 2019.

After the next election...

Any surprises on the routing besides the truncation?

Sorry, just saw your last post. I bet "A future, high-order pedestrian connection to the Hamilton GO Centre Station" means moving sidewalks one day in the future.

I wonder if connecting with West Harbour means it will take Barton for any length. Could be good, if so.

[king10]

Isnt hamilton go centre station hunter street?

Also who will be procuring it. The city or the province?

[SteelTown]

The really good news is that procurement starts in 2017, which is safe under Wynee's majority government (no need for elelection until 2018). When you commit to procurement there's usually HUGE plenty for backing out. So we're basically safe.

[HillStreetBlues]

The really good news is that procurement starts in 2017, which is safe under Wynee's majority government (no need for elelection until 2018). When you commit to procurement there's usually HUGE plenty for backing out. So we're basically safe.

I was actually thinking that is a little close for comfort. If procurement “starts” in 2017, and is delayed, it is a long process itself. If we have a provincial election in spring of 2018 or even a little sooner for whatever reason, that’s tight.

You’re right that it becomes expensive to cancel these sorts of projects once contracts have been signed with providers. It would not be the first time a new provincial government has done it, but it’s much less likely.

I would have expected that, with plans already made several years ago, procurement could start much sooner. Maybe I am discounting the preparation that needs to be done in the interim, but why two years or more?

[Dr Awesomesauce]

You should see Terry Whitehead on Twitter pretending that he's a big supporter of LRT. What an a$$.

Great news by the way!! :tup: Can wait to see the route finalised.

[king10]

I'm a little bit confused. So phase 1 is Mac to Queenston traffic circle with a spur connecting to the James St go. And phase 2 is to Eastgate sq with a spur connecting to the new centennial go station?

[HillStreetBlues]

Can wait to see the route finalised.

Now that it's been altered, is the whole thing going to be opened up to public consultations (again), or largely stay the same besides the spur?

[SteelTown]

Now that it's been altered, is the whole thing going to be opened up to public consultations (again), or largely stay the same besides the spur?

The same. Basically just chopping down four main stops.

http://i.cbc.ca/1.3086841.1432584879!/fileImage/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/original_620/proposed-b-line-lrt-route-map.png

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Yeah, I was just thinking about the spur. Just up James to the Go Station and back then?

[SteelTown]

^ Yeah, basically giving us part of the A-Line route.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Rad. :tup:

[interr0bangr]

With International Village being so narrow, there's talk that it will be cut off from cars completely. This means Main will need to be converted to 2-way, yes? I wonder what other streets will have to be converted to make this work. I'm worried they might rip the bike lanes from Cannon to add more westbound capacity again.

Exciting and a little bit scary times ahead, this will be so transformative it's hard to even imagine it's real!

[markbarbera]

I am quite optimistic for what lies ahead as this allows for a reimagined LRT route. I would suspect Metrolinx would prefer to use Bay Street to run the spur to the station as there is a wider clearance that would better accomodate a dedicated LRT route. James is too narrow to allow for dedicated track. In fact, now that Metrolinx is more actively involved, I would not be surprised to see the route placed along Main instead of King. Main has a wider clearance and runs more direct, making it less expensive to lay track. Plus there is much greater potential for developing higher density along that route. Main has a less defined streetwall than King with fewer buildings of historical interest to complicate redevelopment.

My prediction is the route will ultimately run along Main from McMaster GO bus terminal east towards Bay, then north on Bay to loop in front of West Harbour GO station, heading back south to Main, then east to Queenston Circle, where the former City Motor site could be used as bus terminal to connect HSR routes that serve the east end of the city. With the LRT on Main, a future, high-order pedestrian connection to the Hamilton GO Centre Station could easily be simply the pedestrianization of Hughson Street between Main and Hunter.

[thistleclub]

Ontario Investing Up to $1 Billion for Light Rail Transit in Hamilton (http://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2015/05/ontario-investing-up-to-1-billion-for-light-rail-transit-in-hamilton.html)
(Office of the Premier, May 26 2015)

Ontario will provide up to $1 billion to build a new light rail transit (LRT) line in Hamilton as part of the largest infrastructure investment in Ontario's history.

Premier Kathleen Wynne announced the funding today while in Hamilton. The province will cover 100 per cent of the capital costs of building the LRT, which will help grow the economy, reduce travel times and connect people to jobs and to other transit systems.

New, modern light rail vehicles on tracks separated from regular traffic will offer speedy service from McMaster University through downtown Hamilton to Queenston Circle. The LRT will connect directly to the new West Harbour GO Station, which is now under construction, and protect for a future, high-order pedestrian connection to the Hamilton Centre GO Station. The LRT will ultimately extend to Eastgate Square. Procurement for the LRT will start in 2017, with construction starting in 2019.

Read it in full here (http://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2015/05/ontario-investing-up-to-1-billion-for-light-rail-transit-in-hamilton.html).

Will be interested to see what routing and stops are identified.

[lucasmascotto]

I don't know what to say - it's just really, really embarrassing.

Get a real job, Chad and leave the work of city building to the big boys and girls - you're well out of your depth.

I don't normally like to trash people even politicians but frankly I don't know what good he does. Aside from supporting the opening and development of Bayfront Park, his track record in terms of civic development has been pretty timid. He aligns his ideologies with that of fringe exoburb thinking even though his area is very urban in design and demographic. He was elected at the age of 20, and has been in power for over 20 years with absolutely no community planning or organization experience beforehand. For God's sake, he was a video store clerk before getting elected! He's turned his position into a life-long career and in such refuses to push any sort of motion that might stir up the smallest amount of controversy because he doesn't want to shake the consciousness of his tiny voting cohort. Ugh... :hell: :yuck:

[interr0bangr]

I am quite optimistic for what lies ahead as this allows for a reimagined LRT route. I would suspect Metrolinx would prefer to use Bay Street to run the spur to the station as there is a wider clearance that would better accomodate a dedicated LRT route. James is too narrow to allow for dedicated track. In fact, now that Metrolinx is more actively involved, I would not be surprised to see the route placed along Main instead of King. Main has a wider clearance and runs more direct, making it less expensive to lay track. Plus there is much greater potential for developing higher density along that route. Main has a less defined streetwall than King with fewer buildings of historical interest to complicate redevelopment.

My prediction is the route will ultimately run along Main from McMaster GO bus terminal east towards Bay, then north on Bay to loop in front of West Harbour GO station, heading back south to Main, then east to Queenston Circle, where the former City Motor site could be used as bus terminal to connect HSR routes that serve the east end of the city. With the LRT on Main, a future, high-order pedestrian connection to the Hamilton GO Centre Station could easily be simply the pedestrianization of Hughson Street between Main and Hunter.

The problem with Main is that there's nothing on Main. Just a terrible street from start to finish, destroyed by how much of a highway it's been for so long. The LRT would help spark the healing process and Main is so close to King, so it's still a good option, but keeping the LRT on King is still my preference I think.

[lucasmascotto]

I wanna' make a wikipedia article, or at least update one, on LRT in Hamilton. What's the name of the system, is it just "B-Line (Hamilton) LRT" or is there something else? "B-Line Hamilton LRT" is what's linked to the Metrolinx, HSR, and Light Rail Transit in Canada wikipedia pages. :shrug:

[SteelTown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-Line_%28Hamilton%29

[lucasmascotto]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-Line_%28Hamilton%29

Perfect, I'll work with that! Thanks! :)

[HillStreetBlues]

The problem with Main is that there's nothing on Main. Just a terrible street from start to finish, destroyed by how much of a highway it's been for so long.

There's nothing on Main, which means plenty of redevelopment opportunity. The fact that it is a five-lane one-way highway means construction will be easier. And it is as close to anything as King is.

(It's also not quite true that "nothing" is on Main.)

[lucasmascotto]

Sorry to pester everyone here, I'm making a wikipedia transit map, and i'm trying to get a rough guess of how many stations there will be. This is what I have so far based upon the rapid transit study:

1. Queenston Traffic Circle
2. Kenilworth Avenue
3. The Delta
4. Scott Park (Gage Ave.)
5. Sherman Ave.
6. Wentworth Street
7. Wellington Street/Victoria Ave. (First Place)
8. MacNab Terminal
9. Queen Street
10. Dundurn Street
11. Longwood Road
12. McMaster University

[thistleclub]

FWIW, here are the BRT stops identified in Metrolinx's King-Main Benefits Case (http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/projectevaluation/benefitscases/Benefits_Case-Hamilton.pdf) (Feb 2010):

1. Eastgate Square
2. Nash Road
3. Parkdale Road
4. Queenston Traffic Circle
5. Kenilworth Avenue
6. Ottawa Street
7. Gage Avenue
8. Sherman Avenue
9. Wentworth Street
10. First Place
11. Gore Park
12. Bay Street
13. Queen Street
14. Dundurn Road [sic]
15. Westdale
16. Longwood Road/Main Street
17. McMaster University

[NortheastWind]

This CBC article discusses the potential STOPS: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/take-a-ride-on-hamilton-s-proposed-lrt-route-1.3086616

[interr0bangr]

There's nothing on Main, which means plenty of redevelopment opportunity. The fact that it is a five-lane one-way highway means construction will be easier. And it is as close to anything as King is.

(It's also not quite true that "nothing" is on Main.)

Yeah I understand the advantages of redeveloping Main, and I don't fully disagree, I'd just prefer less car traffic on King to help support and intensity what's already there instead of bringing the transit through another street that needs decades of help and will never be able to match the character and retail frontage King has. I'm happy with an LRT whereever it ends up though. :)

[thistleclub]

Another take...

http://i.imgur.com/D9rZHvk.jpg

More detail: Hamilton B-Line: Value Uplift and Capture Study, Final Report (https://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/8EB54D92-FC44-45AB-B072-BAC6CA830455/0/RR2B_A4_Appendix_CUI_Hamilton_BLine_Vaule_Uplift.pdf) (June 2010)

The MacNab Transit Terminal was under construction when this report was being assembled so it might be the proxy for "Bay" or "Gore Park" (or both), as either is <300m from that terminal.

My hunch is that "MacNab" subs for "Bay" and "Gore Park" is Hughson for better synergy with the Hamilton GO Centre, but the $1B cap ($1B 2015? $1B 2017? $1B 2019?) may force additional economies.

[CaptainKirk]

The problem with Main is that there's nothing on Main. Just a terrible street from start to finish, destroyed by how much of a highway it's been for so long. The LRT would help spark the healing process and Main is so close to King, so it's still a good option, but keeping the LRT on King is still my preference I think.

Agreed.

Convert the one way portion of Main to 2 way. Most of it is 2 way now anyway.

[drpgq]

I honestly still hate the spur. How often are trains going to be leaving from West Harbour to justify a spur? Wouldn't it be far cheaper to have a shuttle busfrom King or Main that meets up with the station whenever a train is actually going to leave? Although I suppose the spur could eventually be used to build an A-line.

I'm just glad though that this is getting funded. Comparing the amount of money the province has spent on transit in Toronto since thee Liberals first promised LRT in the 2007 election versus Hamilton, I'm sure the ratio is way, way over the 5:1 population ratio.

[SteelTown]

I'm kind of eager and excited about the “high order pedestrian connection" to the GO Station Centre, I'd imagine it'll happen along Hunter St.

[king10]

I honestly still hate the spur. How often are trains going to be leaving from West Harbour to justify a spur? Wouldn't it be far cheaper to have a shuttle busfrom King or Main that meets up with the station whenever a train is actually going to leave? Although I suppose the spur could eventually be used to build an A-line.

I'm just glad though that this is getting funded. Comparing the amount of money the province has spent on transit in Toronto since thee Liberals first promised LRT in the 2007 election versus Hamilton, I'm sure the ratio is way, way over the 5:1 population ratio.


Well hopefully with the addition of the centennial station more trains will be running through james st.

[CaptainKirk]

I honestly still hate the spur. How often are trains going to be leaving from West Harbour to justify a spur?

Keep in mind we probably won't see the LRT up and running till about 2025, and GO service should be increased quite substantially by then. Imagine all the development that will occur around there by then


Although I suppose the spur could eventually be used to build an A-line.


I'm thinking that is the start of the A-line, which is another great aspect to this announcement. Gives the mountain, and the rest of the city, something more to be excited about

[Markus83]

What about the extra 300million plus for a new bus storage building and more new buses? Was that mentioned somewhere?

[king10]

What about the extra 300million plus for a new bus storage building and more new buses? Was that mentioned somewhere?


Wasnt that already announced seperately for GO in flamborough? HSR can take over the vacated GO bus space at wentworth as DARTS is already there.

[Markus83]

Thanks King10.i didn't get that part.

[Markus83]

May 26, 2015 Province announces full funding for a shortened LRT route and a GO station on Centennial Parkway. Funding for express buses and a garage is still under consideration.

[matt602]

Wasnt that already announced seperately for GO in flamborough? HSR can take over the vacated GO bus space at wentworth as DARTS is already there.

No, it was for the HSR. GO is paying for their own facility. The money was for HSR to build an entirely new, second garage at Wentworth most likely replacing the existing one that GO and DARTS share. It would probably get a new CNG fueling station like the mountain garage is getting now. The new articulated buses are being delivered right now but can't go into service until that fueling facility at the mountain garage is finished, in the fall.

Metrolinx hasn't indicated any support for that ask, instead focusing on the LRT and GO expansion money announced yesterday.

[Beedok]

I will be disappointed if this ends up just being a streetcar thing. Calgary and Edmonton were both about Hamilton's current size when they built their LRTs weren't they? Can't we manage something on par with one of them?

[MalcolmTucker]

How much traffic light preemption/control/preference was studied in the EA? Is the EA sitting online somewhere? Edmonton's new line will look similar, running on the street, but will have a very high level of control over traffic lights.

[king10]

No, it was for the HSR. GO is paying for their own facility. The money was for HSR to build an entirely new, second garage at Wentworth most likely replacing the existing one that GO and DARTS share. It would probably get a new CNG fueling station like the mountain garage is getting now. The new articulated buses are being delivered right now but can't go into service until that fueling facility at the mountain garage is finished, in the fall.

Metrolinx hasn't indicated any support for that ask, instead focusing on the LRT and GO expansion money announced yesterday.

Not sure where they will construct a new garage at Wentworth, its already cramped as is.

And the current GO garage is actually the same building that Fleet Services uses to repair/ store vehicles. That isn't getting demolished.

[flar]

I will be disappointed if this ends up just being a streetcar thing. Calgary and Edmonton were both about Hamilton's current size when they built their LRTs weren't they? Can't we manage something on par with one of them?

I think one of the reasons for the lukewarm support is because of just that.

The idea of rapid transit is to conveniently move people from one part of the city to another. That means it needs to go across the city. If it's just a short line through the core, all it is is another transfer.

In Calgary and Edmonton, the LRT will take you from the edge of the city directly to the core. Same with BRT in Ottawa.

[Beedok]

I think one of the reasons for the lukewarm support is because of just that.

The idea of rapid transit is to conveniently move people from one part of the city to another. That means it needs to go across the city. If it's just a short line through the core, all it is is another transfer.

In Calgary and Edmonton, the LRT will take you from the edge of the city directly to the core. Same with BRT in Ottawa.

I think it covers a good length of the city (and covers a better commuter base than the Trillium Line, that's for sure), it's more about separating it from traffic in the core. Hamilton is good for a lack of congestion, but the downtown area has what, a couple thousand new residents on the way with all those new condos? Plus the city is going to keep growing. I don't want Hamilton stuck with a streetcar when it hits a metro of a million and needs full separation in a few area.:shrug:

[SteelTown]

Myth: LRT will get stuck in traffic.

Fact: LRT will run on dedicated lanes with signal priority. That means the streetlights will automatically turn green for the LRT vehicle as it approaches an intersection.

http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/the-facts

[SteelTown]

How much traffic light preemption/control/preference was studied in the EA? Is the EA sitting online somewhere? Edmonton's new line will look similar, running on the street, but will have a very high level of control over traffic lights.

B-Line Environmental Project Report:
http://www.hamiltonrapidtransit.ca/index.php/project-information/funding-proposal/

[RaginRonic]

Finally...street-level trains here! Woo Woo! ^^

But yeah, my melty mind notwithstanding(XD), here's also hoping that people on that route won't deliberately crash their cars into the trains to muscle LRT out of Hamilton that way.

Anyone who does that is a militant thug, living in the imagination of their own past, scared of anything that takes their money and social power away from them.

=P

[MalcolmTucker]

OwcYcedLxZc

CV2rdGX4JYc

[Beedok]

Myth: LRT will get stuck in traffic.

Fact: LRT will run on dedicated lanes with signal priority. That means the streetlights will automatically turn green for the LRT vehicle as it approaches an intersection.

http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/the-facts

Calgary has a similar set up in their downtown, along with a dedicated street, and they're always complaining about how that slows the whole system down to a crawl and ruins the rapid angle. (I agree a bit, but I didn't ride it that many times.)

[LikeHamilton]

.@FredEisenberger says Metrolinx will own, operate, and maintain Hamilton's LRT.

[RaginRonic]

OwcYcedLxZc

CV2rdGX4JYc

Exactly, Malcolm....this type of stupid crap should be dealt with LOOOONG before LRT is rolling here. =P

[Dr Awesomesauce]

.@FredEisenberger says Metrolinx will own, operate, and maintain Hamilton's LRT.

I'm not entirely sure of the significance of this. But really, the way the HSR has been run over the years, I can't say I'm disappointed or surprised, frankly - keep it away from the City and its agencies.

A little article from CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/james-street-north-s-lrt-surprise-what-will-it-mean-for-street-s-revival-1.3089923) on the spur from King to the new GO station. Spoiler alert: according to the article, plans won't be released for another year and a half or so.

Exciting.

[HillStreetBlues]

A little article from CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/james-street-north-s-lrt-surprise-what-will-it-mean-for-street-s-revival-1.3089923) on the spur from King to the new GO station. Spoiler alert: according to the article, plans won't be released for another year and a half or so.

Exciting.

What a can of worms; I’m not looking forward to the conversation about James. The distance between King and James and the West Harbour Station is 1100 meters. That’s not much too far to walk to commuter rail, and it’s not long enough to justify maybe more than one station between the two (even then, stop spacing will be too tight). The suggestion in that article is that we should have a streetcar like some of those in Toronto serving James. What does that mean? Three or four stops, a mere 250 meters apart. That doesn’t sound like rapid transit to me; that’s more like a tourist trolley car.

I’m not necessarily opposed to LRT running in mixed traffic where it’s necessary. I bet it’s politically impossible to get King closed to automobile traffic through International Village, which is what it would take. But having a streetcar line running in mixed traffic with frequent stops one kilometre up James seems senseless to me.

[lucasmascotto]

Councillors climb aboard LRT bandwagon
(The Hamilton Spectator: Thursday, MAy 28, 2015)
By: Matthew Van Dongen

Not all city councillors are over-the-moon about LRT — but a clear majority agree you don't say no to a $1-billion offer.

Ardent council fans of the long-standing light rail transit plan were rapturous — one, Aidan Johnson, broke into song — following Tuesday's provincial promise to build an 11-kilometre line from McMaster University to the Queenston traffic circle.

Eight returning and new councillors campaigned against LRT in the recent city election — raising the possibility even a provincial commitment wouldn't save the project. But Wednesday, enough light rail skeptics indicated they were back on board to scratch the prospect of council rejecting the deal.

Coun. Terry Whitehead admitted the LRT proposal was not his first transit priority, but added with provincial funds in hand he is "on board, 100 per cent committed."

"Our job now is to ensure this plan is the absolute best it can be," he said, emphasizing the city must work to mitigate potentially "devastating" consequences for businesses during years-long LRT construction.

"Any time a senior level of government wants to drop $1 billion on our city, we should just say a heartfelt thank you," added Coun. Tom Jackson, who told The Spectator last year he no longer supported the project.

Coun. Lloyd Ferguson, who had made his light rail support contingent on full provincial funding, said the announcement proves "you can dream big."

Ferguson told councillors communities surrounding the lower city "are celebrating (the funding) with you."

But he cautioned negotiating the potential pitfalls facing the plan — including construction woes, traffic disruption and possible hidden costs or overruns — "will make the stadium debate … look mild."

LRT opponent Coun. Chad Collins previously said he hasn't changed his opinion on the project, but added he was grateful his ward was left off the amended route, which originally extended to Eastgate Square.

Coun. Maria Pearson said Wednesday she viewed the LRT commitment "with trepidation," but praised the news an east-end GO station was on the way.

"If we're moving ahead with LRT, I need to see that the public is back at the table and will have input," she said, adding she'll "keep an open mind" but isn't ready to say if she'll support a final vote to enter a master agreement with Metrolinx.

"I'm not convinced King (Street) is really the right place for it. The bus-only lane didn't really work out well, did it?"

New Stoney Creek Coun. Doug Conley said $1 billion "sure sounds like good news," but added he still has "many questions that need to be answered" before he is comfortable with the project. He noted he wasn't on council when it voted to request the LRT cash.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger, who first pushed LRT during his first term as mayor in 2007, stressed the project will "transform" all of Hamilton — not just the lower city. He acknowledged the looming challenges, but asked skeptics not to "tear apart" the project "for parochial, political reasons."

Coun. Sam Merulla successfully moved a motion Wednesday to resurrect a dedicated LRT office and form a subcommittee of councillors devoted to the "epic" city-building project.

[MalcolmTucker]

Any thoughts on the location of the Maintenance and Storage Facility? Is this why a spur to the Go Station might be extra useful, to access a maintenance facility?

Also, this may be why the budget grew, if the B-Line budget didn't include a maintenance facility, sort of like the Transit City snafu where they forgot to include the cost of the trains and the maintenance facilities.

[oldcoote]

What a can of worms; I’m not looking forward to the conversation about James. The distance between King and James and the West Harbour Station is 1100 meters. That’s not much too far to walk to commuter rail, and it’s not long enough to justify maybe more than one station between the two (even then, stop spacing will be too tight). The suggestion in that article is that we should have a streetcar like some of those in Toronto serving James. What does that mean? Three or four stops, a mere 250 meters apart. That doesn’t sound like rapid transit to me; that’s more like a tourist trolley car.

I’m not necessarily opposed to LRT running in mixed traffic where it’s necessary. I bet it’s politically impossible to get King closed to automobile traffic through International Village, which is what it would take. But having a streetcar line running in mixed traffic with frequent stops one kilometre up James seems senseless to me.

Yes, this will be interesting.

It certainly won't be rapid on James N, so unless it's the start of an A-line, whats the point of installing rail?

Conversely, what if they ran a loop northbound on Bay to Strachan and return southbound on James? Would also serve as an access to Bayfront Park.

[Jon Dalton]

It sounds like the city has made up its mind about using James Street but I think alternatives are worth considering. Hughson is just a stones throw away and contains basically nothing but residential. It could stay one way with room for both LRT tracks. It could also use MacNab to access the GO station but would still have to get around Jackson Square.

[Jon Dalton]

Any thoughts on the location of the Maintenance and Storage Facility? Is this why a spur to the Go Station might be extra useful, to access a maintenance facility?

Also, this may be why the budget grew, if the B-Line budget didn't include a maintenance facility, sort of like the Transit City snafu where they forgot to include the cost of the trains and the maintenance facilities.

The $811 million B-line budget was indeed all inclusive. Councillors basically started making stuff up about extra costs that weren't budgeted. The increase is due to inflation.

I'm disappointed there isn't much talk about finding cost savings somewhere in the proposal. There must be ways to get costs down especially since the province is doing several LRT projects at the same time.

[drpgq]

Personally I would rather the city own and run everything, if only because the jobs then stay in Hamilton. The province is biased enough as it is towards putting jobs in Toronto, why have a couple of extra jobs based in Toronto for looking after Hamilton's LRT.

[MalcolmTucker]

One of the conditions for Metrolinx projects is the province books them. That way the debt and asset balance out on the province's books at the start, and the yearly availability fee is the cost of project delivery. In theorey when the province takes over from Infrastructure Ontario/ a P3 partner in 30 years, the province can then re capitalize the asset so the province never really has to pay for it in the traditional way of buying and owning the asset.

While it might sound less transparent it is actually more transparent as to the actual cost of having the transit line available to the people of Ontario.

(please excuse me if I used any professional accounting terms to mean the wrong thing)

[Dr Awesomesauce]

A really uplifting article (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/lrt-benefits-will-need-revising-to-account-for-5-year-housing-boom-1.3091499) on CBC Hamilton about how the benefits of LRT, in terms of development, might have to be adjusted to account for an already-hot Hamilton market.

Here's what Chad Collins had to say about that notion:

Not everyone agrees with the projected benefits. Coun. Chad Collins of Ward 5 says there will be uplift, but it won't be as extreme as what people predict.

Much of the developable land identified in the Canadian Urban Institute report isn't feasible, he said. The report identifies city parks, for example, and plots too tiny to even hold buildings. Eliminate those, he said, and the numbers fall.

Thanks for bringing us back down to Earth, Chad.

The wunderkind has forced himself into a hole out of which he cannot get - don't bury yourself too deep, Chad old boy.

[the905sDW]

Hey everyone, so once again, I couldn't help but share my thoughts on the state of transit in Hamilton.

I've mocked up my vision of how LRT could be implemented into the city to coexist with transit hubs already established. (Also had fun mocking up a symbol for LRT in Hamilton)

This is my first version of the map. I'll keep following the news in regards to how the city envisions the LRT route to be, as well as look at everyone here on SSP is saying or how they envision the system might look like. I'll keep updating it as more info or ideas come to mind.

I like to see visuals of concepts as it really allows you to see the true scope of this project.

Comments, suggestions always welcome!

Map Source, Me: © Dustin Labs.

http://i61.tinypic.com/281wxg7.jpg

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Well done, Dustin.

It's interesting that you've created a mini-A-line rather than a spur per se. My understanding of a spur is that it's integrated directly into a main line but I could very well be wrong. Perhaps a 'spur' can be whatever you want it to be - just short.

Anyway, your route appears to follow King-John-Hunter GO-James-King-Bay-Stuart-Harbour West GO, does it not? Cool stuff.

I believe it still remains to be seen what form this spur will take. Will every train follow the spur or every other one? Will they construct a mini-A-line as you've done? I'm not sure it would have the ridership to warrant but, regardless, it'll be fun to see how LRT plans materialise.

[Beedok]

Looks very professional.

[ScreamingViking]

I believe it still remains to be seen what form this spur will take. Will every train follow the spur or every other one? Will they construct a mini-A-line as you've done? I'm not sure it would have the ridership to warrant but, regardless, it'll be fun to see how LRT plans materialise.

I'm curious about this too. It will come down to what makes sense from a travel demand perspective - the east-west travel during the peak periods may be dominant so it may make sense to keep those LRVs on the main track in rush hours, and run north-south service separately along James... or maybe they will just run 1/x trains up James. That can evolve depending on future passenger flows too.

Until West Harbour gets all-day GO service, the need for the LRT connection isn't as large. But that's the likely future and by the time this is built perhaps we'll see that. The waterfront development may mean there's a need to look at extending the James/A-Line stub farther north, but incremental expansions may make a lot of sense once the core corridor is built.

The pedestrian link along Hughson to the downtown GO station interests me, and I think there should be other walk/cycle connectors considered by the city in its local planning (e.g., to McMaster Innovation Park).

Overall this is fantastic and it's great to finally move ahead with certainty.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^Yeah, a pedestrian/ cycling route along Hughson, perhaps with a covered portion, would be nice. Hey, we could also have cycle rickshaws connecting all the various stations.

Like you said, we'll see what passenger numbers are before anything else.

[the905sDW]

Thanks Dr Awesomesauce, Beedok and ScreamingViking.

About my idea on the A-Line or Spur line - I think it would only make sense to build the starts of the future growth of the LRT system during the build of the first line.

Although ridership might be lower until more frequent GO service comes to these stations, the need for this line is still there. Those will be 2 busy hubs with lots of people coming and going from them, so to get those people on a faster, higher-capacity mode of transportation in the local system is the better way.

LRT might service the lower city, but the sprawling hoods of the Mountain will need to be serviced in the future as well. Think of all those people commuting, a faster way downtown would be great for them too. With that A-Line already built, the line would just need to go up from there.

As for the route of the A-Line I have on my map, I've avoided James North - I just feel an LRT vehicle route would break up the street too much - plus it's a busy street. I've chosen to place it nearby the action on James, just a bit away from it. It does loop around the block in front of the Hunter Street GO station - a stop would be in front of it, but could easily go in thwe the current HSR bus platforms are now.

One thing I didn't mention, was that blue line on my map. I envision a dedicated bus line with select stops from the Queenston traffic circle (LRT Station) to Eastgate Square, then to Centennial GO. It would help bridge the gap of no LRT on that stretch of Queenston.

[thistleclub]

I expect that while hub synergies are incorporated, the system will be calibrated to respond to passenger demand. The 10 Express currently interlines with the 55/58 routes because of demand in Stoney Creek (eg. 24,000 people live in the census tracts directly adjoining Queenston between Lake Ave and Fruitland Rd). If Confederation GO Station shows signs of competitive HSR-inclined boarding volumes (“kiss-and-ride” rather than “park-and-ride”) it might warrant the new buses and new hires on the 55 and 58 routes that would be required to enable extension of the 10 Express 1.6km north.

Alternately, the HSR might extend the 44 Rymal to the Confederation GO via the Eastgate terminal, just as they had proposed running the 20 Express to the waterfront via James North/West Harbour GO.

Rapid Ready (http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/76D38C17-DC96-4C54-8E55-3A6EA1C71D73/0/Feb25EDRMS_n414203_v1_5_1_PW13014.pdf)’s Building A Rapid-Ready Transit Network notes:

In preparation, the objective will be to increase bus service levels in the A-Line and B-Line corridors to emulate rapid transit. Examples of possible service improvements are:

King-Main-Queenston Corridor
1. High frequency service on B-Line corridor routes:
ROUTE 1 KING/ROUTE 10 B-LINE : 5 minutes
ROUTE 5 DELAWARE/ROUTE 51 UNIVERSITY: 7.5 minutes
Result will be a combined headway of 3 minutes or better in the entire B-Line corridor

2. Additional service to/from Dundas. This change will provide a reasonable level of service to the King Street and the Governors Road areas during all time periods and will help to avoid crush loads between Dundas, McMaster and Downtown Hamilton

3. Service Enhancement to the future Centennial GO Station, subject to the development of a park and ride and transit terminal facility at this location.

...

James-Upper James Corridor
5. Service span and service level improvements to ROUTE 20 A-LINE along with restructuring to provide a high level of service in the James/Upper James corridor from the airport to the waterfront. Headways will be improved to 10 minutes.
6. Extension of year-round ROUTE 20 A-LINE service to Hamilton's waterfront (Pier 8) via Guise Street, also improving service to the future site of James North GO Station

[mattgrande]

I thought I had posted this here, but I didn't see it...

I think it'd be nice if the spur went up James and back down Bay, with a stop at Copps... Good for anyone coming in from out of town for events. Get off the GO at West Harbour, step on the LRT, and you're at the stadium in minutes.

[Bubba9000]

I'm curious about this too. It will come down to what makes sense from a travel demand perspective - the east-west travel during the peak periods may be dominant so it may make sense to keep those LRVs on the main track in rush hours, and run north-south service separately along James... or maybe they will just run 1/x trains up James. That can evolve depending on future passenger flows too.


Let's not hope for a 'split' route. Trains that short turn or divert actually cut service in half usually. Though it sounds inconvenient, a transfer from one line to the other is best.

[flar]

I thought I had posted this here, but I didn't see it...

I think it'd be nice if the spur went up James and back down Bay, with a stop at Copps... Good for anyone coming in from out of town for events. Get off the GO at West Harbour, step on the LRT, and you're at the stadium in minutes.

Good idea

[Dr Awesomesauce]

I thought I had posted this here, but I didn't see it...

I think it'd be nice if the spur went up James and back down Bay, with a stop at Copps... Good for anyone coming in from out of town for events. Get off the GO at West Harbour, step on the LRT, and you're at the stadium in minutes.

So would every train make that trip then or just one per hour or would it be a separate line or...?

They'll figure this out, of course, but anything that delays those East-West trips is going to negatively impact the efficiency of this future line.

[thistleclub]

City begins lining up LRT ducks (http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/5665681-dreschel-city-begins-lining-up-lrt-ducks/)
(Hamilton Spectator, Andrew Dreschel, June 8 2015)

Now that the $1 billion LRT bombshell has landed, what happens next on the road to the start of construction in 2019?

City staff is busy arranging meetings to start fleshing that out with Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency that's going to design, own and, likely, operate the system.

According to city spokesperson Mike Kirkopoulos, staff will then present a high-level report on next steps to councillors at the Aug. 10 meeting of the general issues committee.

The document, he says, will address a myriad of issues and questions connected with building the 11 kilometre route from McMaster to the Queenston traffic circle, and the spur line to the James Street North GO station.

"The report will probably lay out the work that we need to do, some of the things that are outstanding from a financing perspective; what are some of the principles we're looking at regarding the master agreement (with Metrolinx), and what we need to start doing now versus starting months from now."

Meanwhile, the city has already submitted to Metrolinx an early concept drawing of a pedestrian walkway from the LRT line on King to the Hunter GO station three blocks south.

Running along MacNab Street, the corridor's proposed features include a covered sidewalk, urban braille, planter walls, bike lanes and a food truck alley.

The walkway is intended to let pedestrians move quickly and comfortably between the Hunter GO station and the LRT line.

Though the ultimate cost is unknown, as a substitute for a second spur rail line, it saves Metrolinx something like $85 million.

Kirkopoulos says public works staff also is already looking at capital projects over the next 10 years to determine what work needs to be done along the routes and how it should be staged so they're only tearing up the roads once.

Although Metrolinx will pay for moving hard services such as water lines, the city will have to cover the costs if it wants to take the opportunity to upgrade or enlarge them.


Read it in full here (http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/5665681-dreschel-city-begins-lining-up-lrt-ducks/).

[mattgrande]

MacNab? Why MacNab? Why not Hunter? How will they connect MacNab to the station? So many questions...