PDA

View Full Version : Rapid Transit


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42

Northern Light
Jul 21, 2011, 10:22 PM
My bias is towards LRT in Hamilton, I'll put that upfront, but let me then address the comparisons w/Buffalo and elsewhere.

***

Buffalo's LRT is not a complete failure, but certainly not fully utilized, that is, in part, a function of a city and region in decline in terms of population and jobs....

It is also, far more importantly, a function of where the LRT did or did not go.

In the case of Buffalo, the largest base of transit riders and car-less folks who aren't carless due to job-lessness, would be the students of the University of Buffalo whose campus is in Amherst.

The LRT does not go there.

Nor does it serve one of the region's largest employers (the Airport)

Nor does it even connect a major residential hub to its downtown.

Its a downtown line that goes just beyond the core, to nowhere in particular.

To be successful transit needs to reach its most likely potential riders where they live and take them to where they shop, go to school and work.

Buffalo's LRT does not do this.

That's the reason for its lackluster success; along with a downtown that is largely shut down after 6pm on a weekday, with only the crowds from the hockey games at the periphery of downtown providing a small nub of after-hours activity.

It was an American hockey player at the big Juniors tournament who said something like "This makes Medicine Hat look exciting"

******

With respect to the layout of the proposed LRT in Hamilton, it remedies much of this problem.

First, its connected to MAC. Whether you want to go there Real is not the issue, the issue is that the student base there represents a huge number of riders, both commuters to/from campus, but also the resident students, who need to get out to go shopping or to a part-time job.

This benefits downtown and the route of the LRT by promoting same as a good place for off-campus students to live, as they could hop on the LRT and be at campus in a few minutes.

Second, its connected to Eastgate (shopping). No, its not Hamilton's best shopping, but it does draw a few folks and offers a different type of retail from the core, that might be important to some people living in the core or at MAC.

Third, while downtown Hamilton is very much a work-in-progress, it is already more lively than downtown Buffalo and already has more residents.

There are cinemas, a farmer's market, a central library among others that are real draws for those that live outside downtown. They may not be Regional draws, but they absolutely attract people from as far away as Mac or Eastgate.

Admittedly, there are destinations that are missed, like the hospital campuses, some things are unavoidable.


*****

In respect of LRT vs bus, its a simple question

a) Most people prefer riding LRT, is it way better? No. BUT, it simply gives an impression of somehow being more 'middle class' than a bus. Taking VIA is just more classy than Greyhound, and in the pecking order of transit, you draw people to a system sometimes because of the technology choice. Obviously route, frequency, cleanliness and fares all matter too, but technology does too.

b) Developers everywhere tend to invest around heavy rail/LRT because of its permanence. Obviously it is removable, and just because its there does not mean there will be high ridership/service. But, bus frequency, all other things being equal, will bring fewer riders, and is more subject to cuts by whim...(few gov'ts would dare to build a 1B LRT then run 30min-service on it.)

c) Because LRT has higher capacity to move people and is more attractive to most potential riders, all other things being equal, large employer will prefer to locate along it; the residents and the shopping follow.

Obviously its not as easy as all that, and you need to have other pieces in place like nice streetscapes, restored heritage buildings, schools that people would want to send their kids too, and so on, but LRT is one piece of that puzzle.

d) LRT will invariably lead to renewed and beautified streetscapes along the streets it operates on; where buses will trigger no such spending.

******

Finally, there is no 'choice' of LRT vs Full-day GO service.

That's coming anyway, and entirely out of provincial coffers.

While LRT, if/when it comes will also be heavily subsidized from outside, meaning great leverage for Hamilton in terms of what it spends vs what it takes home.

******

Lastly, I see the residential tide turning.

I'll grant that it hasn't really yet.....

But its certainly doing so all over the place, and I would expect Hamilton to be no different, there's been a generation shift, based on ecology, lifestyle preferences and the price of gas, which is just shifting most cities toward a more urban orientation.

SteelTown
Jul 22, 2011, 12:52 AM
Touch and GO on LRT

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/567287--touch-and-go-on-lrt

MPP Ted McMeekin says there’s little chance Hamilton will land Light Rapid Transit unless the city makes it a priority.

“My read on LRT, put very simply, is we’ll take our cues from the City of Hamilton,” he said. “Let me say it as bluntly as I can: If LRT is not a priority for the city council and the citizens it represents, the province is highly unlikely to come to the table with big bucks to do it.”

McMeekin’s comments mark the second time this week a provincial official has stressed the importance of the city’s enthusiasm and desire for securing LRT. Earlier this week, Metrolinx, the regional transportation agency in charge of rapid transit, said public support will be “critical to successfully implementing the rapid transit this region needs.”

Those comments come after City Manager Chris Murray and Mayor Bob Bratina signalled a move away from pursuing LRT in favour of prioritizing all-day GO service. Part of that move was to suspend all non-essential work on LRT, which means a study of development possibilities along the LRT line will be cut short and the number of city staff working on LRT will shrink from six or seven to one.

This week, LRT advocates have raised concerns about how the city’s apparent cooling on the issue would be affected by comments from city hall.

However, in contrast to his comments earlier this week, Bratina said Thursday that LRT is a priority.

“We’re still in the LRT game,” he said.

He did, however, stress all-day GO service is much closer on the horizon.

“LRT has not changed on the priority list. GO has been a priority for some time and is imminent. No one believes LRT will be operating until 2020 at least.”

Bratina also said there could be other routes, cheaper than the Eastgate Square-to-McMaster option the city has been studying.

“Perhaps a line to McMaster up to Mohawk Road, which would be about 8 kilometres,” he said. “There could be other considerations of the LRT that might be less costly if that’s what the indications show.”

McMeekin says it will be up to Hamilton to convince Metrolinx that LRT is a good investment and will spur development and movement downtown.

“In the absence of that, it isn’t likely going to happen,” said McMeekin.

msakalau
Jul 22, 2011, 2:29 AM
No I believe our LRT will function more like Buffalo's and not like Portland or Charlotte, because Portland and Charlotte are totally different cities. Charlotte has doubled in size in the last 30 years and Portland created a urban boundary and stuck to it. Hamilton is more like Buffalo.


I currently attend school in Buffalo for Urban Planning, and ride the Metro quite often when needing to go downtown. (Ironically their line ends at the University at Buffalo South Campus. There is a shuttle service right in front of the metro station that leads to the larger campus, but it isn't the ideal. there were plans in the 70/80s to extend the metro to Amherst, but residents were vehemently against having a subway run through the suburbs. Since Amherst was more swampy, water was a big issue) However, Buffalo in terms of demographics is night and day when comparing it to Hamilton's ridership. I mean this both metaphorically and literally. Buffalo is severely racially and economically segregated. Riding the metro you see just how much this is true, and how the suburbs have had an effect on people living in the inner city. The metro in Buffalo was constructed for the reason of providing jobs in a failing industrial city, which is why it set the city back.

I disagree with Realcity. I feel Hamilton's LRT would function more like a European system, or even the examples of Portland and Charlotte. And plus, Hamilton's Rapid Transit team has had a set goal and vision for the LRT system. Not to mention, Buffalo's above-ground portion is closed to vehicular traffic, which has contributed to the perceived failure of the metro system. (Although, Buffalo has plans to return traffic on Main Street) So, as long as cars, bikes, LRT and pedestrians all have some sort of space on the road, it has the potential to bring people back downtown.

Hamilton is in a perfect position to initiate a true transit system for the city, that could really alter how development will occur in the future (with extended GO service) for the better.

padthai
Jul 22, 2011, 1:55 PM
Touch and GO on LRT
Bratina also said there could be other routes, cheaper than the Eastgate Square-to-McMaster option the city has been studying.

“Perhaps a line to McMaster up to Mohawk Road, which would be about 8 kilometres,” he said. “There could be other considerations of the LRT that might be less costly if that’s what the indications show.”

Ugh...just more signals to Metrolinx and the upper levels of government that Hamilton is schizophrenic and unable to make up its mind. Why are we even spending all this time and effort studying the B-Line if the mayor's going to change his mind on a whim?

Starting to feel like the stadium debate all over again..."Maybe an LRT to Confederation Park? No wait...I meant West Harbour...no wait...what are we talking about again?" :gaah:

c@taract_soulj@h
Jul 22, 2011, 5:11 PM
Buffalo's LRT really could serve a purpose if the city allowed it to. If you ask me, I think expansion further into the suburbs (Amherst/Williamsville/Niag Falls) should have been implemented years ago. 15 stations in a declining population not reaching beyond it's boundaries does much justice.

They're not the only city with population decline however (see Cleveland 450K/Pittsburgh 320K). Mind you, the metro areas of both are larger by a million people or so but again, both LRT's reach into the suburbs where as Buffalo's doesn't.

With Hamilton alike most Canadian cities, population decline just isn't a reality. Questions based upon whether transit would work or not shouldn't even be questioned at all. There are a handful of Canadian cities big or small that would welcome LRT, only if they had the funding for it. London, Hamilton, Halifax, Winnipeg, Saskatoon(much smaller but experiencing mass gridlock) and Waterloo (just recently approved)

Ancaster/Stoney Creek and Hamilton Mountain are continuously developing at a decent pace. Rapid Transit is no more than a crucial artery transporting it's citizens to and from it's boundaries as we and other areas expand. In Buffalo's case, development seems to be at a much slower pace so expansion out of the city proper needs to be examined for it to truly be successful.

As for GO Transit I don't understand at all why it and LRT are having such a boxing match. Bring all day service and a second station to the east-end and while on the subject let's get that VIA Rail thingy I've heard so much about back downtown :D

thistleclub
Jul 22, 2011, 7:22 PM
It all reminds me a bit of the have-at-it-ness of What's Riding On City Transit Options? (http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/30947--what-s-riding-on-city-transit-options)

Downtown VIA service would be a surprise. Stoney Creek not so much.

bigguy1231
Jul 22, 2011, 8:18 PM
Ugh...just more signals to Metrolinx and the upper levels of government that Hamilton is schizophrenic and unable to make up its mind. Why are we even spending all this time and effort studying the B-Line if the mayor's going to change his mind on a whim?

Starting to feel like the stadium debate all over again..."Maybe an LRT to Confederation Park? No wait...I meant West Harbour...no wait...what are we talking about again?" :gaah:

It's not just Hamilton that can't make up it's mind. Just look at Toronto or even worse Ottawa. In Toronto they cancelled LRT and the Transit city plan to build a subway extention. In Ottawa they cancelled the first plan they had already contracted for, costing them millions in penalties to the contractors and the newest plan is also facing huge problems getting approved.

In both cases the province has sat back and let the city's make their decisions without threat. Why would our process be any different than theirs. If anything we have been moving along alot smoother than them with less opposition. At least most of our councillors are on board with the idea of LRT. Why would the province be threatening to pull our funding and not theirs.

It's unfortunate that the process in this city has been hijacked by a handful of zealots who are trying to steer the process in the direction that they want it with as little discussion as possible. It's almost as if they are hiding something or trying to pull the wool over our eyes so they can ram this through without the idea being properly vetted. What don't they want us to know?

SteelTown
Jul 25, 2011, 1:08 PM
haha

http://media.mmgdailies.topscms.com/images/79/3e/89d2ec3b4110872f1f566767fe1e.jpeg
Graeme MacKay
http://www.thespec.com/opinion/cartoons/article/568625--editorial-cartoon

DC1983
Jul 25, 2011, 3:29 PM
^ BAHAHA! Good one, Graeme!

"New stadium? We don't want your money!! Clean Harbourfront? TAKE YOUR MONEY AND SHOVE IT! Paid-for Rapid Transit System? Who do you think we are, Kitchener-Waterloo? GO F YOURSELVES, This is an NPD-Town, Dalty!"
..is what that cartoon says to me.

SteelTown
Jul 30, 2011, 12:10 AM
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/571146--a-brouhaha-advocacy-or-journalism

From Paul Berton, editor-in-chief of The Hamilton Spectator and thespec.com.

SteelTown
Aug 2, 2011, 9:48 PM
Do you guys support Herman Turkstra idea of holding a referendum on LRT?

I think the last time Hamilton had a referendum was on allowing a casino in downtown Hamilton.

Personally I'm always supportive of a referendum especially on LRT which will have a lasting impact in Hamilton.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 2, 2011, 9:51 PM
Well, for a vote you need a project that is scoped, planned, and funded. Any uncertainty would lead to rejection.

SteelTown
Aug 2, 2011, 9:58 PM
We've got on going work happening with the B Line environmental assessment. So we'll have it scooped and planned out.

It's not funded because the Queen's Park won't act until the City is fully committed to the B Line LRT.

drpgq
Aug 3, 2011, 4:34 PM
I'd be OK with the idea of a referendum, especially for such a big project. The only thing is the councilors would still have to implement it and I sense more and more of them aren't particularly keen on it.

markbarbera
Aug 3, 2011, 4:52 PM
I'm hesitant about a referendum. While I normally support the concept of referrenda on large capital projects, I fear it would be the death knell for LRT in Hamilton. Outside the bubble of pro-LRT supporters (among whom I count myself), I don't see there being enough overall support among the general population to carry a vote.

durandy
Aug 3, 2011, 8:18 PM
I'm not sure I agree with you there Mark. It depends on whether the full cost is also indicated. If the question is: do you support LRT as well as a five year 5% increase in property taxes then there's no way. But if the question is just whether or not we want new shiny trains fully funded by the province, even though everyone knows that's never going to happen, then I bet you'd have huge support.

This whole exercise by the way is going to seem pretty futile come fall.

SteelTown
Aug 4, 2011, 12:45 PM
But regardless of Harper’s motives, the prime minister was reluctant to talk about one of Hamilton’s hottest topics — Light Rail Transit. When asked if Hamilton could expect to see the same kind of federal funding that other Ontario municipalities have received for LRT, the prime minister said he couldn’t comment.

“All applications of that nature will be looked at, but I’m not in a position today to comment on whether we would approve such an application.”

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/573180--why-was-harper-really-here

MalcolmTucker
Aug 4, 2011, 1:27 PM
The feds customarily don't approve projects until provinces do, since the feds can't really transfer money directly to cities.

SteelTown
Aug 4, 2011, 7:33 PM
Notice of Public Information Centres for Transit Project Assessment Process Hamilton B-Line Rapid Transit Project

The City of Hamilton has developed a plan for the introduction of Rapid Transit (RT) in the B-Line corridor over 13.78 kilometres between McMaster University and Eastgate Square. The objective of this work is to enhance transit service over the next 25 years and beyond by introducing high frequency RT service using Light Rail Transit (LRT). In addition to terminus stops at McMaster and Eastgate, line stop will be strategically located along the route for access by walking, cycling and north-south bus routes.

This project is being implemented in accordance with Ontario Regulation 231/08, Transit Projects and Greater Toronto Transportation Authority Undertakings (Transit Projects Regulation) of the Environmental Assessment Act. As part of the Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP), an Environmental Project Report is being prepared and will be available for public review by fall of this year. All information produced in association with this project is available on the City’s Rapid Transit website: www.hamiltonrapidtransit.ca.

When & Where
Citizens of Hamilton (including the public, agencies and other interested persons) are encouraged to participate actively in the Transit Project Assessment Process and are welcome to either attend Public Information Centres (PICs) or contact RT staff directly with your comments and/or questions. PICs are planned for the following dates:

Monday, August 15, 2011
6:00 PM – 8:00 PM
Sackville Hill Senior’s Centre
780 Upper Wentworth Street, Hamilton

Tuesday, August 16, 2011
6:00 PM – 8:00 PM
The Grand Olympia Hospitality & Convention Centre
660 Barton Street, Stoney Creek

Wednesday, August 17, 2011
12:00 PM (noon) – 8:00 PM
Hamilton Convention Centre, Albion Room
1 Summers Lane, Hamilton

Thursday, August 18, 2011
12:00 PM (noon) – 8:00 PM
Hamilton Convention Centre, Albion Room
1 Summers Lane, Hamilton

If you have project-related questions or would like to be added to our project mailing list, please contact rapidtransit@hamilton.ca.

SteelTown
Aug 8, 2011, 2:29 AM
Chris Murray is back to work tomorrow. Should be interesting.

fuller
Aug 8, 2011, 2:11 PM
Does anyone else think that Murray is about to jump ship?

The recent curious activity around LRT planning could just be some repositioning, in advance of an anticipated change of government.

Or could it be that he's clearing off his desk in advance of leaving?

SteelTown
Aug 10, 2011, 11:17 PM
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/576527--just-looking-to-do-the-right-thing-farr-wants-lrt-back-on-track


‘Just looking to do the right thing’, Farr wants LRT back on track

Farr is introducing a notice of motion Thursday that asks council to “reaffirm its position in support of pursuing a full investigation of LRT” and to pursue more funding from Metrolinx, the regional transportation agency.

The move comes after weeks of dialogue between the city, the media and the community about the fate of LRT in Hamilton that began when city manager Chris Murray sent an email to council signalling a move away from pursuing LRT.

Farr said the public outcry that followed “has not gone unnoticed.”

“I’m really reinforcing and reaffirming. I’m not trying to stir things up — I’m merely trying to keep the momentum going.”

.........

Farr and McHattie first began talking about LRT when they were brainstorming about phasing in the proposed B-Line. That line will run 13.4 kilometres — between McMaster University and Eastgate Square.

McHattie and Farr say the line could be phased in, with the first stretch running from McMaster to downtown.

“It’s a pretty significant piece of the B-Line,” Farr said. “Being pro-LRT, why would we not take an initiative like this?”

SteelTown
Aug 11, 2011, 1:25 PM
Wonder if B-Line LRT from McMaster to downtown could be done before the 2015 Pan Am Games.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 11, 2011, 1:47 PM
All approvals would need to be in place and shovels in the ground for early next spring. Pretty unlikely given there isn't even a basic funding pledge yet.

SteelTown
Aug 11, 2011, 1:58 PM
McMaster to Downtown is about 2.5km or about 18% of the total proposed B-Line LRT. I think we could get 2.5km done within 4 years.

I think Athens just barely got their tram line done before the Olympics and that was 27km and done within two years.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 11, 2011, 2:06 PM
McMaster to Downtown is about 2.5km or about 18% of the total proposed B-Line LRT. I think we could get 2.5km done within 4 years.

I think Athens just barely got their tram line done before the Olympics and that was 27km and done within two years.
The most complicated parts aren't scalable, like the maintenance and operations centre. You still need all the same approvals to be able to build a substation and tap the grid for power. And finally, you would need an approved environmental assessment along with a study that concludes phasing won't lead to significant cost growth beyond the growth in benefits of actually having the part of the line done in time.

Phasing also raises the significant possibility that the first phase would be the last after parochial politicians and reactionary citizens and business groups react to the loss of traffic lanes within the city.

markbarbera
Aug 11, 2011, 4:41 PM
Excellent points, Malcolm. It's been understood for some time now that the timeline for LRT completion prior to 2015 Pan Am Games is not possible. Jill Stephen herself stated this last November. (http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/273571--no-light-rail-trains-before-games) A phased-in approach to LRT doesn't change the fact that construction couldn't be completed in time for the Games.

To quote Jill Stephen from that article:

Jill Stephen, director of rapid transit with the city's public works department, says there is simply too much planning, design, engineering, environmental study and construction work to complete and senior officials did not want roads torn up during the Games.

“A lot of things have to align and we want to make sure we're doing it properly and not rushing to get it done.

“This is a better and more responsible way to approach it.”

The goal will now be to have all the preliminary work finished so that shovels can go in the ground immediately after the Games finish.

The Pan Ams and their para-games component conclude in mid-August.

“This shouldn't be seen as a lack of urgency on our part or that we're putting less importance on this. It's just better for the project,” Stephen said.

“Pushing it forward at the wrong time doesn't make for success.”
as reported by Meredith MacLeod, Nov 5, 2010 thespec.com
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/273571--no-light-rail-trains-before-games

If the purpose is to serve Pan Am facilities, having LRT from Mac to downtown does not meet this goal anyway, seeing as the stadium is another four kilometres east of downtown. Besides, the goal of TO2015 would be to ensure there is sufficient transportation infrastructure that directly links the Pan Am athelete's village and all the event sites. Given that these sites are stretched across several regions in southern Ontario, the focus for ensuring proper connecting transit for the 2015 Games should be on enhancing GO Transit services that connect Hamilton, Niagara and the GTA.

Post-script observation, Jill Stephen's own words last November: "Pushing it (LRT) forward at the wrong time doesn't make for success"

SteelTown
Aug 12, 2011, 12:37 AM
Murray clarifies city’s position on LRT

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/577157--murray-clarifies-city-s-position-on-lrt


Hamilton is still fully committed to light rail transit, says Hamilton’s top bureaucrat — even if work on the project is slowing down.

Speaking for the first time since sending a much-discussed email about LRT several weeks ago, City Manager Chris Murray assured council Thursday that the city is still on board.

“The way that I think my email was interpreted — and unfortunately, I wasn’t here to explain it several weeks ago — it should have been interpreted as we are still absolutely committed to investigating the feasibility of rapid transit,” Murray said.

In the July email, Murray told senior staff to do only the LRT work required by the province, which gave $3 million to the city to study and plan the project. At the same time, more staff and resources were directed toward aggressively pursuing all-day GO service from Toronto.

“This decision will give the Senior Management Team an opportunity to review the current work plans, evaluate the results, and report back to Council with a detailed scope of work needed in order to live up to our obligation under our agreement,” the email reads. “It will also help us to get a clear picture of the financial implications of the LRT initiative.”

Murray’s comments to council mark the first time he has publicly reaffirmed the city’s commitment to LRT. While the July email praises the city staff’s work on LRT, it does not specifically affirm the city’s commitment to LRT.

Murray was prompted to speak when Councillor Jason Farr introduced a notice of motion that asks council to “reaffirm its position in support of pursuing a full investigation of LRT and to pursue more funding from Metrolinx, the regional transportation agency.”

Farr said he worked on the motion along with Councillor Brian McHattie after Murray’s email prompted an uproar from the community.

Farr’s notice of motion prompted several questions from councillors Thursday, including inquiries about how Murray’s email will affect the number of staff dedicated to LRT.

Gerry Davis, general manager of public works, told councillors it will be the end of the year before city staff working on LRT will be sent back to their departments. He did not mention to council how many staff would remain dedicated to working on LRT after that time.

Later, Davis confirmed in an interview that only one staff member will remain devoted full-time to the LRT file.

After the meeting, Murray said the province shouldn’t be interpreting disinterest in LRT “based on a two-paragraph memo from myself.”

“You’re going to see our commitment through the report that’s coming, hopefully next month,” Murray said. “It will be really clear as to what we understand the cost to be, what we understand the benefits to be, and what options we have for moving forward.”

Murray also said the email was not intended to signal a move away from LRT.

“I would suggest reading the email again. Understand that it said that we were going to finish the work that we were asked to finish,” he said. “How that gets interpreted as not being committed to LRT — I guess that’s for you to decide.”

thistleclub
Aug 12, 2011, 11:42 AM
Two weeks left to apply for a job as GO’s Director of Transportation for the 2015 Games (http://www.gojobs.gov.on.ca/Preview.aspx?JobID=38364).

thompsdk
Aug 24, 2011, 8:40 PM
The display panels (http://www.hamiltonrapidtransit.ca/index.php/2011/08/august-2011-public-information-centres-pics-display-panels/) are up from last week's PIC regarding the routing of the LRT.

Good to see First Place back as a station. Some renderings had it missing.

Mary St still shown as one-way. Why not convert it to 2-way with development at the Knitting Mills and the old Century Theatre on taps?

Comment sheets also available, though awkwardly in a PDF....

SteelTown
Aug 30, 2011, 11:34 PM
Video: Waterfront and transit 'critical' to Hamilton's future

Globe and Mail Update
Published Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2011 8:42AM EDT

Nick Bontis, associate professor of strategy at McMaster University's DeGroote School of Business, explains why waterfront revilatization and transportation infrastructure are the keys to its economic future.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-growth/sustainability/video-waterfront-and-transit-critical-to-hamiltons-future/article2140681/

thistleclub
Aug 31, 2011, 2:27 PM
Random telephone survey to inform long-range planning and improvement of Hamilton's roads and transit services.


Public Works press release:

Major Transportation Survey To Begin In Hamilton

HAMILTON, ON – August 31st, 2011 – Beginning Tuesday, September 6th, a major transportation survey will begin in Hamilton, the GTA and adjacent areas to help municipalities and the Ministry of Transportation meet their future needs for roads and transit services. The survey, called Transportation Tomorrow Survey, is being conducted by the University of Toronto’s Data Management Group on behalf of the Ministry of Transportation and participating municipalities. Hamilton is one of 20 regional, county, and local municipal governments that are participating in the survey of more than 150,000 households.

The first phase of the survey will take place in the fall of 2011 and the second phase will begin in the fall of 2012. The survey will consist of telephone interviews of a randomly selected sample of households.

“The valuable input we receive from Hamilton citizens through this survey will be used to help shape Hamilton’s future transportation programs and services,” said Alan Kirkpatrick, Manager of Transportation Planning for the City of Hamilton.

The purpose of the survey is to collect information on the travel habits of residents and provide a database for long-range planning and improvement of transportation facilities. All information collected will be kept confidential and cannot be traced back to an individual household.

This is the sixth Transportation Tomorrow Survey. It has been conducted every five years since 1986 and City of Hamilton has participated in all of these surveys. The City of Hamilton uses this information for all major transportation studies including the Hamilton Transportation Master Plan which was completed in 2007. Once this survey is completed, the results will be collated and released in early 2013.

SteelTown
Aug 31, 2011, 2:34 PM
Bob Bratina is on the Bill Kelly show, surprise surprise, and just said "LRT is not a priority."

markbarbera
Aug 31, 2011, 3:31 PM
Video: Waterfront and transit 'critical' to Hamilton's future

Globe and Mail Update
Published Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2011 8:42AM EDT

Nick Bontis, associate professor of strategy at McMaster University's DeGroote School of Business, explains why waterfront revilatization and transportation infrastructure are the keys to its economic future.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-growth/sustainability/video-waterfront-and-transit-critical-to-hamiltons-future/article2140681/

I had to really concentrate on what he was saying because I kept getting distracted by the raccoon tan he was sporting.

mattgrande
Aug 31, 2011, 9:52 PM
Bob Bratina is on the Bill Kelly show, surprise surprise, and just said "LRT is not a priority."

:yuck:
:shrug:

SteelTown
Sep 1, 2011, 11:17 PM
Chances of LRT one in a million?

http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/588081--chances-of-lrt-one-in-a-million

Mayor Bob Bratina says light rail transit will be a serious option for Hamilton if a million people move to the city over the next five years.

Speaking on CHML earlier this week, Bratina said LRT “is not a priority,” echoing a sentiment he’s expressed before and then backed away from. Bratina again said all-day GO train service is the city’s priority.

“We’ve spent a lot of time and, frankly, money … to get to a point where we still don’t know what the component for the city taxpayer will be (for LRT). And that’s disturbing because we should know early on, OK, if we’re going to get serious about LRT, roughly … 10, 15 or 20 per cent? What’s going to be our participation cost?”

Bratina says designing the system has come before answering fundamental financial questions and determining whether the city has the ridership to justify a system.

When asked by radio host Bill Kelly if the city is abandoning LRT, Bratina quickly answered no.

“We couldn’t abandon LRT because transit planning will go on, ad infinitum. If somehow a million people moved to Hamilton over the next five years and we have traffic congestion all over the place, we will look at all transit options, including LRT.”

The mayor went on to say that developers are interested in GO service but that big projects, including a new hotel and condos in and around the former federal building, the Connaught and McMaster’s downtown health campus are not linked at all to the city building LRT.

Councillor Brian McHattie said it’s “silly” that LRT isn’t a priority. He says there is no reason to pit GO service against LRT.

One is a short-term vision funded by the province, and the other is a long-term, city-building project.

“It’s a very strange phenomenon. I don’t understand (the mayor’s) position whatsoever.”

A series of mixed messages about LRT from the city’s top offices have left supporters pessimistic and wondering whether they will torpedo any chance at funding from other levels of government.

Councillor Jason Farr, with McHattie’s backing, will introduce a motion next month that confirms the city’s commitment to fully studying LRT, while acknowledging that GO service is an immediate priority. They drafted the motion after discussions with MPP Ted McMeekin, Metrolinx board member Richard Koroscil and senior staff at the regional transit authority.

The motion calls for Hamilton to lobby for more provincial money to study LRT.

Farr says he believes the case for LRT has been made, but that there are still lots of unanswered questions about costs that can only be answered with analysis. That includes understanding the costs of not building an LRT line. That information swayed a number of councillors in Waterloo, who ultimately voted to build a train line.

McHattie says the purpose of the motion is to get the message out that Hamilton is still pursuing LRT.

“We want everyone to know we’re still in the LRT game. We will continue to work on it and position ourselves to be successful.”

Farr, who represents downtown’s Ward 2, intends to present his motion at a meeting when council will get an LRT progress report from city manager Chris Murray. That is scheduled for mid-October.

SteelTown
Sep 1, 2011, 11:43 PM
So any ideas on how we can increase our population by a million within five years?

LikeHamilton
Sep 2, 2011, 2:04 AM
So any ideas on how we can increase our population by a million within five years?

Amalgamate with Niagara!

padthai
Sep 2, 2011, 2:24 AM
Councillor Jason Farr, with McHattie’s backing, will introduce a motion next month that confirms the city’s commitment to fully studying LRT, while acknowledging that GO service is an immediate priority. They drafted the motion after discussions with MPP Ted McMeekin, Metrolinx board member Richard Koroscil and senior staff at the regional transit authority.

Glad to see some leadership and long-term vision coming from some parts of council on this issue. Any guesses on the vote split on the motion?

realcity
Sep 2, 2011, 3:41 AM
no one knows anything about transit until after the provincial elections. Hamilton's LRT has been a provincial promise since 2004. So our LRT system is already 8 years old.

bigguy1231
Sep 2, 2011, 5:45 AM
Since when does Bob, the village idiot, Bratina decide anything for this city. I thought we had a council that made these decisons. One person with one vote should not be setting the city's agenda. Thats something council should be doing.

SteelTown
Sep 8, 2011, 7:51 PM
Gonna miss Jill but it's understandable especially with our Mayor.

City’s rapid transit director on first train to Niagara

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/591151--city-s-rapid-transit-director-on-first-train-to-niagara

The manager in charge of Hamilton’s contentious rapid transit file is leaving the city for another job.

Jill Stephen will work her last day Sept. 22 before she becomes senior transportation planning engineer in Niagara Region.

Her departure was announced to staff and councillors in an email Thursday from Gerry Davis, general manager of public works.

“It goes without saying that Jill’s initiative and dedication to the positions she held at the city will be difficult to replace,” he wrote. “I wish Jill every success in her future endeavours and we will certainly miss her on our department management team.”

Stephen, 37, was widely seen as a fast-rising star at the city. She was director of strategic planning and was then made director of the rapid transit team.

In recent weeks, that team has been mostly dissolved, following an email from city manager Chris Murray in July that announced all work on LRT beyond the city’s obligations to the province were being suspended.

It was then announced that Stephen would take on the Pan Am Games file in addition to her rapid transit duties.

While there has been much discussion about the city’s commitment to LRT in the wake of negative comments made by both Murray and Mayor Bob Bratina, Stephen says none of that played any role in her decision to leave the city.

“I have young kids at home … I realized how important my family is to me. I needed to get some balance.”

drpgq
Sep 8, 2011, 9:56 PM
Wow. LRT really is on the ropes.

SteelTown
Sep 9, 2011, 12:33 AM
Jason Farr's LRT motion.....

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/F94691FF-F2B0-4452-AC34-E51C8901013A/0/Sep12EDRMS_n204533_v1_9_2__Motion__LRT_and_GO_Transit__Farr_.pdf

SteelTown
Sep 10, 2011, 1:44 AM
McGuinty’s keen to get GOing on all-day service for city

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/591990--mcguinty-s-keen-to-get-going-on-all-day-service-for-city

Premier Dalton McGuinty says all-day GO — not LRT — is the province’s first transit priority for Hamilton.

McGuinty, who sat down with The Spectator this week while campaigning for October 6 provincial election, said the province is following Mayor Bob Bratina’s lead by focusing its attention on GO rather than light rail transit (LRT).

“That was the No. 1 ask of the city,” McGuinty said. “We’ve had some important conversations with the mayor, and this is their priority. Which made it our priority. Over time, we can enter into other discussions about things like the LRT.”

The city’s commitment to LRT has been under scrutiny since July, when city manager Chris Murray suspended all work on LRT beyond the city’s obligations to the province. That email surfaced soon after Bratina and Murray declared GO to be the city’s top priority — a statement that has prompted a backlash from some community members and councillors.

Last week, Bratina reaffirmed that LRT “is not a priority” during one of his recent appearances on CHML.

Ryan McGreal of Hamilton Light Rail said the premier’s comments demonstrate that the city has mishandled the LRT file. He points out that it was the McGuinty government that gave Hamilton $3 million to study LRT and that McGuinty campaigned on plans to build two LRT lines in Hamilton before the 2007 election.

“It’s not surprising the province is backing away now. We’ve given them an excuse not to fulfil their promise. We’ve given them an out,” said McGreal.

“We’ve created a self-fulfilling prophecy. We spent all summer bashing LRT … You have a demoralized and dispirited staff who have been scattered to other departments. We have torpedoed our LRT commitment.”

However, councillor and LRT advocate Brian McHattie says the premier’s comments don’t mean the city will never see provincial cash for LRT — just that it’s not a short-term goal.

“I think LRT — you can read his comments any way you want, I guess, but I’ll read them as LRT is still on the agenda, but it’s a future orientation,” McHattie said. “I think that’s fair, not knowing the details about what the mayor’s been telling him.”

McGuinty said getting all-day GO to Hamilton is a key part of his election platform.

“I think one of the specific commitments of great interest to the folks in Hamilton will be our commitment to bring about full-day GO train service,” he said.

“It’s a place on the move. We want to help folks in Hamilton move a bit more. We’re convinced that the new GO train service will be very helpful in that regard.”

SteelTown
Sep 10, 2011, 7:17 PM
Manager’s exit sets up LRT showdown
Andrew Dreschel

Rightly or wrongly, many at City Hall are convinced there’s more to LRT poster girl Jill Stephen’s surprise departure than her desire for a better work-life balance.

The fact that the director of the city’s rapid transit team is leaving to take a less demanding position in Niagara certainly dovetails with her stated yearning for more family time.

But there’s a lot of hallway chatter that Stephen is packing it in because she’s frustrated that her light rail portfolio has been shunted aide by Mayor Bob Bratina and city manager Chris Murray.

Small wonder people are shocked. Stephen wasn’t just the head of rapid transit.

She was inextricably linked to light rail in the same way Murray was once identified with the Red Hill Parkway project.

Stephen threw her heart and soul into former mayor Fred Eisenberger’s LRT vision for the city — to the point where some believe she became emotionally as well as professionally attached to the project.

They think Stephen saw the writing on the wall when Bratina and Murray seemed to downgrade the light rail proposal from an image-changing priority to a fuzzy long-term option,

It’s believed that combination of a lack of clarity and leadership convinced her the time was ripe to reorder her own priorities.

If so, Stephen is far too much the pro to ever bad mouth her employer.

And while her departure surely casts yet another shadow of doubt over LRT, it needs to be emphasized that it’s not dead yet.

Thanks to a motion from Councillors Jason Farr and Brian McHattie, on Oct. 11 council will have an opportunity to override Bratina’s position and force him to recommit to strongly lobbying the province and Metrolinx for more funding.

There’s no question Bratina’s lukewarm comments have hurt Hamilton’s place in the transit funding queue and pool.

But a strong majority vote from council can send the message that the city is still firmly aboard.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/592172--manager-s-exit-sets-up-lrt-showdown

SteelTown
Sep 12, 2011, 2:11 PM
The Spec: Do you think Hamilton should receive provincial funding for LRT?

Horwath: I’ve been pretty clear about that. I’ve had meetings with Metrolinx and encouraged them to seriously realize how important the LRT system would be for the City of Hamilton.

I’m absolutely 100 per cent in favour of LRT in Hamilton.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/592766--q-a-with-ndp-s-andrea-horwath

MalcolmTucker
Sep 12, 2011, 2:58 PM
Not just realize - they need to seriously realize. I am surprised she didn't say she was 110% behind it!

SteelTown
Sep 12, 2011, 9:35 PM
The Spec: Do you believe that Hamilton should receive provincial funding for LRT?

Hudak: We have a very different approach from Dalton McGuinty, who tells communities what their priorities are. We’re actually going to listen to what mayors, councillors and local residents have to say. We’ve set aside $35 billion for infrastructure projects, targeted largely at breaking gridlock. So I’ll look forward to the best suggestions that Hamilton has, whether it’s roads, bridges or transit, instead of following Dalton McGuinty’s model where he decides what’s best.

The other thing I’ll add to the transportation file: Our party, the Ontario PC party, is the only party that supports the Mid-Peninsula corridor, which will be the largest investment in job creation in Hamilton and Niagara that we’ve seen in generations; both in building the highway and attracting more businesses along a new transportation corridor. That will create more jobs for Hamilton residents.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/593006--q-a-with-progressive-conservative-leader-tim-hudak

CaptainKirk
Sep 12, 2011, 11:14 PM
http://www.raisethehammer.org/

Clark cannot understand why Council seems willing to let the offer of 100% capital cost for LRT slip away. "It is incredibly frustrating that we were promised this commitment and now this Council has jumped through hoops to get the Pan Am Games money, and the entire argument was, 'Why would you turn down 56% of the money?' Well, I'm curious: why are we going to look the other way on LRT when 100% of the money was promised by senior levels of government? I don't get it."

Asked about Mayor Bratina's claim that Hamilton might have to pay $150 million toward the cost of LRT, Clark replied, "I keep hearing that we're going to have to pay. Where did that come from?"

He noted that Waterloo Regional Council agreed to cover some of the capital cost to fast-track their LRT proposal after years of development, but that Hamilton should not be held to the same cost breakdown.

"People in the media kept saying to me, Who really believes the Province was ever going to pay 100%? I said I believe it, because they're doing it in Toronto. So it's to our own neglect that we're not looking at what's happening in other municipalities, because Toronto asked for it and they got it."

Clark pointed out that the shift in priority from LRT to GO transit does another thing: "No one's talking about this, but GO transit capital expansion is paid for by the municipalities," not the Province. "This has been the case for quite some time."

When Clark was the Minister of Transport in the Harris Government, he uploaded the operating costs for GO Transit to the Province, but "we maintained that a portion of GO capital was to be paid by municipalities. There have been a number of iterations since then, but for now the capital cost goes on development charges to the city. If we don't have the money, we have to tax for it."

According to Clark, when the Premier promises GO Transit expansion over the next ten years, the capital cost is on the City's dime, not the Province's.

matt602
Sep 13, 2011, 1:04 AM
The other thing I’ll add to the transportation file: Our party, the Ontario PC party, is the only party that supports the Mid-Peninsula corridor, which will be the largest investment in job creation in Hamilton and Niagara that we’ve seen in generations; both in building the highway and attracting more businesses along a new transportation corridor. That will create more jobs for Hamilton residents.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/593006--q-a-with-progressive-conservative-leader-tim-hudak

To me this basically translated to: "Don't worry about public transit. We're going to build a giant highway for people to drive on and it's gonna create lots of jobs. Seriously, trust me."

To be honest I don't really think any of the 3 parties will take public transit within the GTA-H seriously enough, but I definitely think the Con's are least concerned with it. I suppose it makes sense as their target voters are mid-upper class people who use their automobile as primary transportation.

SteelTown
Sep 13, 2011, 10:44 PM
The Spec: What does your platform specifically offer to residents of Hamilton?

McGuinty: One of the specific commitments of great interest will be our commitment to bring full-day GO train service. Hamilton is growing in leaps and bounds. It’s been extraordinarily successful at drawing in new investment. It’s a place on the move. We want to help folks in Hamilton move a bit more. We’re convinced that the new GO train service will be very helpful in that regard.

The Spec: That actually dovetails into the next question. Do you think that Hamilton should receive provincial funding for LRT?

McGuinty: Well, first, we walk. And then we can talk about running. What I mean by that — I mean let’s focus on the GO service. That was the number one ask of the city. We’ve had some important conversations with the mayor and this is their priority, which made it our priority. Over time, we can enter into other discussions about things like the LRT.

http://www.thespec.com/news/elections/article/593803--q-a-with-liberal-leader

drpgq
Sep 14, 2011, 4:55 AM
^^^^

I wish there was more information about what all day GO train service actually means. From what I understand, the benefit for Hamilton is minimal. The GO bus service from Hunter will continue to move far more people, with more frequent service and faster apart from some peak periods.. If there's something I'm missing, I'd like to be enlightened .

Jon Dalton
Sep 14, 2011, 4:36 PM
I want good train service to Toronto badly, in fact I'd personally use it as much as light rail. The bus can be fast, but you never know when it will be stuck in traffic or packed to standing room only. If you want to take a bike, it's getting more and more frequent that the bike rack is full. These problems are only going to get worse as traffic congestion increases and there is higher demand for the service.

However none of those facts make a dent in the argument for LRT which would bring more value to the city in terms of transit quality, image and private investment. We need both services. Nowhere else in the world does a city this size and as close to its country's largest, have to choose between decent regional transit and decent local transit.

go_leafs_go02
Sep 14, 2011, 5:39 PM
LRT would benefit the City far more than expanded GO Train service. Yes, all day train service would be great, but you can bus it over to Aldershot to make a quick transfer, and I would argue the time parallels between a train from James Street N. to Aldershot compared to a bus would be quite minimal.

Is it ideal? nope, but I think putting focus on keeping jobs and commuters within the City would be beneficial, and LRT would aid that. Go Transit will just continue to aid Hamilton into slowly become more of a bedroom community. I'm not opposed to it, but LRT would have much much more benefits for the City.

matt602
Sep 15, 2011, 10:43 PM
I wonder how those who are stuck standing on crowded King, Delaware and B-Line buses will benefit from all-day GO service to Toronto? Or those who have to wait for the next 2 or 3 buses that pass them?

durandy
Sep 16, 2011, 12:01 AM
I want good train service to Toronto badly, in fact I'd personally use it as much as light rail. The bus can be fast, but you never know when it will be stuck in traffic or packed to standing room only. If you want to take a bike, it's getting more and more frequent that the bike rack is full. These problems are only going to get worse as traffic congestion increases and there is higher demand for the service.

However none of those facts make a dent in the argument for LRT which would bring more value to the city in terms of transit quality, image and private investment. We need both services. Nowhere else in the world does a city this size and as close to its country's largest, have to choose between decent regional transit and decent local transit.

I'll even argue against your devil's advocate. Bus stuck in traffic? This almost never happens for long periods, due to communication between drivers. I've been stuck on disabled trains or trains pulled over successively for freight or signal problems far more often than I've been delayed unreasonably in buses. Standing room only? This is the norm for the commuter train returning from Union. Happens rarely in buses, almost never if you catch it from Hunter. Bike rack? Bikes aren't even allowed on the 'express' trains.

markbarbera
Sep 16, 2011, 12:08 PM
The biggest plus to the Liberals' all day GO train service promise is the fact that it will be all day, both ways. Meaning GO trains can finally be used to commute from Oakville, Burlington, Grimsby and St. Catharines into downtown Hamilton for work. People often interpret all day commuter train service as just another step towards Hamilton becoming a bedroom community, but the fact that it will be coming into the city instead of just leading commuters out will go a big way to help sell the downtown core to potential office tenants. This has the potential to be a significant EcDev driver.

With regards to the bus vs train debate, I have been a rush hour commuter for nearly a decade now and will choose the Lakeshore train over the bus because my years of experience has proven the train to be more reliable than the bus during the rush hour, particularly in the past year or so. Trains being stuck behind freight is more or less a thing of the past now that the third rail is being completed along the Lakeshore line.

Now, if it is non-peak, then I'll hop on a bus as the express bus can get into Hamilton in 45 minutes. But when it comes to reliability during rush hour, forget it.

durandy
Sep 16, 2011, 2:25 PM
Jason Farr's LRT motion.....

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/F94691FF-F2B0-4452-AC34-E51C8901013A/0/Sep12EDRMS_n204533_v1_9_2__Motion__LRT_and_GO_Transit__Farr_.pdf

Farr put this motion off until October at Monday's GIC meeting. He wants to wait for the staff report on LRT to come out. Whitehead questioned why the motion was taken off, but then meekly accepted Farr's rationale that the timing was better to have the staff report in hand.

Which is strange, since the whole point of the motion seemed to be to counter the perception that LRT was being downgraded. If they wait until the report is out in October - a report which surely will be much diminished with Stephen's departure - it may be an afterthought. What's the point of 'reaffirming' support for LRT if not to make a symbolic statement. And you make that statement where the statement has the greatest impact, ie during the election when the project hangs in the balance. It seems to me that Farr has just scored a nice win with his ward constituents, while totally backing down before the mayor and city manager.

SteelTown
Sep 30, 2011, 1:39 AM
McGuinty’s email landed the same day city council demanded by a 13 to 3 vote that the Liberals come clean on whether they intend to honour their 2007 commitment to fully fund two LRT lines for Hamilton.

Bratina voted against the motion, which was presented by Councillors Brad Clark and Lloyd Ferguson.

Both councillors were taken aback by the premier’s signal that Bratina seems to have gone rogue, turning a personal priority into Hamilton’s.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/602245--mayor-bratina-may-be-going-rogue

durandy
Sep 30, 2011, 2:47 AM
that's a pretty good take on it by Dreschel. It makes a whole lot more sense than the conspiracy theories going around, which ironically play right into the hands of Clark and Ferguson.

SteelTown
Oct 5, 2011, 2:15 PM
No LRT funding guarantee: Metrolinx

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/604163--no-lrt-funding-guarantee-metrolinx

It is too soon for the province to commit capital funding for two planned light rail lines in Hamilton, said the head of Ontario’s regional transit agency.

Metrolinx CEO Bruce McCuaig responded Tuesday to a motion from city council last week calling on the province to confirm capital funding for two LRT lines in Hamilton.

McCuaig told city manager Chris Murray “the timing of council’s request does not allow for a government response” because of the election, according to a summary of the conversation circulated to councillors.

The summary adds it is “premature to comment on capital cost responsibility” until the city finishes its design and engineering studies for the light rail lines that were pitched by the Liberals during the 2007 election campaign. Metrolinx will consider the studies in 2012.

Reached Tuesday afternoon, McCuaig confirmed he had spoken to Murray and reiterated he “can’t speculate about funding” during an election campaign.

Councillor Brad Clark, who authored council’s motion, dismissed the “election excuse,” noting Premier Dalton McGuinty confirmed funding for all-day GO service last month.

“The Liberals make all sorts of funding promises during a campaign. Our request is absolutely fair game,” said Clark. “The Conservatives have said they won’t fund LRT. The NDP say they will. The only person who isn’t giving a clear answer to the question is the person who promised us LRT in the first place.”

Mayor Bob Bratina disagreed.

“There was no promise to fund,” he said Tuesday, pointing to a June 2007 press release that noted all planned transit projects were subject to review by the predecessor of Metrolinx: the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority.

Bratina said Ontario can promise GO funding because the expansion plan is clear, while council hasn’t submitted a detailed LRT funding request yet.

“If (we) decide to build a subway under the bay to Waterdown, they’re probably not going to fund that,” he said.

McGuinty recently told The Spectator he understood GO Transit to be the “number 1 priority” of both the city and the mayor, spurring outrage from some councillors.

Bratina said Tuesday he never told the premier the city was backing away from LRT, but added council told him to “go hard” on all-day GO service.

On the Bill Kelly radio show Tuesday, McGuinty said the province hasn’t abandoned LRT: “We’re moving ahead thoughtfully and responsibly with both projects. We’re going to have to do both.”

SteelTown
Oct 7, 2011, 10:26 PM
Conventional, Rapid and Inter-Regional Transit: Technical, Land Use and Financial Considerations

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/BA1D3B71-A1BC-43AD-8251-2B71D2221361/0/Oct13EDRMS_n221401_v1_7_1__CM11016_PW11064_PED11154_FCS11072.pdf

MalcolmTucker
Oct 7, 2011, 10:30 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see increased investment in rapid transit infrastructure, including the Hamilton Line, be included in the next budget. There is little way the NDP could vote against such direct investment into Hamilton plus it fits with the Liberal vision.

SteelTown
Oct 7, 2011, 10:34 PM
Potential Future Impacts of B-Line LRT

Below is a summary of Financial Implications based on LRT implementation:

• The Capital cost of LRT on the B-Line ranges from $875 million to $1 billion. Financial impact analysis was prepared using a senior government grant assumption ranging from 100% to 50% funding. Based on this assumption, the City’s financial share of the LRT project could range from $0 to $509 million which would be debt financed.

• The City’s own capital costs (non-LRT infrastructure) are expected to be in the range of $1.8 million to $2.4 million.

• The operating budget impact on the City for operating the LRT and the higher costs impacts on existing city services ranges from $16.4 million to $ 25.5 million per year.

• The potential residential tax impact (of both the capital and operating costs) ranges from a low of 1.4% or $42 per household to a high of 7.9% or $230 per household. This impact could be phased-in over a number of years.

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/BA1D3B71-A1BC-43AD-8251-2B71D2221361/0/Oct13EDRMS_n221401_v1_7_1__CM11016_PW11064_PED11154_FCS11072.pdf

SteelTown
Oct 7, 2011, 10:40 PM
Infrastructure Ontario – Value for Money Exercise

Quarter 4 2012

Participation in Infrastructure Ontario’s Value for Money (VFM) Assessment to determine the suitability of the B-Line for Alternative Financing and Procurement (AFP) delivery. The VFM would provide direction as to whether a P3 process or a more traditional delivery model should be considered. Province would fund this study. City staff would be involved.

MalcolmTucker
Oct 7, 2011, 10:43 PM
The operating budget impact on the City for operating the LRT and the higher costs impacts on existing city services ranges from $16.4 million to $ 25.5 million per year.

Does the study consider what the savings in bus service would be?

SteelTown
Oct 7, 2011, 10:50 PM
"To give both the high and low cost estimates, LRT Operating estimates include the redeployment of 18 buses into the BLAST network and the removal of 18 buses from the network."

MalcolmTucker
Oct 7, 2011, 10:56 PM
Ouch - they only think it will save 36 buses? That is pretty sad. If it is true, and not just a result of a very conservative budgeting effort without a real look at the bus network, the business case for building it must be pretty weak.

I think they just haven't really thought about the network that much - they should be able to save a lot more than that even while maintaining existing frequencies on what will become feeder routes.

CaptainKirk
Oct 8, 2011, 4:18 AM
Operating Cost estimates (2011-$000s)

BRT - Based on 36 buses 16,100

LRT - Based on 22 vehicles 13,500-5,700 (18 buses off the network) = $7,800

MalcolmTucker
Oct 8, 2011, 4:47 AM
That ain't a compelling case. Albeit Waterloo's was pretty much as bad and they have a line coming so who knows.

SteelTown
Oct 13, 2011, 1:15 PM
LRT on track, but plans need funds: Report

Hamilton’s contentious bid for a light rail transit line has surged ahead of competing projects from other municipalities and is a year away from being ready for implementation, reveals a report going before city councillors Thursday.

The cost to taxpayers could range from $42 to $230 per household for capital and operating costs, according to staff calculations.

Senior bureaucrats are urging councillors to seek funding for more planning work through 2012, noting Metrolinx officials said completing those studies would put the city in a “maximum state of implementation readiness.”

Metrolinx would then be in a position to make a funding recommendation for LRT.

The information yet to be collected includes: whether planned and existing land use will support LRT; is there development potential along the route; would LRT factor in to developers’ decisions to invest in Hamilton; and will there be a positive return on investment for the project.

Financial estimates in the report assume a capital cost of $875 million to $1 billion for a 13-kilometre LRT line running from Eastgate Square to McMaster University, and federal and provincial grants covering 50 to 100 per cent of the cost.

The yearly cost for the operating budget for LRT and impacts on other city services ranges from $16.4 million to $25.5 million. Combined, the capital and operating hit will mean a property tax increase between 1.4 per cent if the federal and provincial governments pay for construction and 7.9 per cent if the city pays half the cost on a $1-billion project.

Staff caution that if the city receives partial construction funding, it will impact Hamilton’s AA credit rating and reduce flexibility for funding other capital needs. The city’s debt is forecasted to peak at about $1.1 billion by 2019, without LRT factored in.

The year of planning still to go will cost $950,000. Senior city staff are recommending that council approve the remainder of the planning work and ask Metrolinx to pay for it. Any shortfall should be paid out of the city’s $14.2-million Quick Wins reserves, which is funded by Metrolinx.

By the end of this year, it’s estimated that the city will have contributed $5.3 million in studies and staff time on the LRT project. That’s in addition to $3 million provided by the provincethat covers planning work to be finished this year.

“Metrolinx has acknowledged the extraordinary amount of work completed in Hamilton in a compressed time frame … placing Hamilton two years ahead of rapid transit projects in other municipalities, including Mississauga (Hurontario Line),” the city staff report reads.

City staff is also asking council to beef up HSR bus service along the B-Line to get ready for LRT, including: dedicated transit lanes and signal priority; buses running every five minutes; replacing 40-feet conventional buses with 60-foot articulated vehicles; “disentanglement” of bus routes operating in the B-Line corridor to make it the dominant route; and technological enhancements, such as electronic “real-time” signage.

http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/608366--lrt-on-track-but-plans-need-funds-report

SteelTown
Oct 14, 2011, 12:51 AM
Waiting for the money train

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/608990--waiting-for-the-money-train

Hamilton will finish its homework on light rail transit while waiting for a $1-billion provincial money train to pull into town.

City councillors committed more cash Thursday to the study of a 13-kilometre LRT line from McMaster University to the Eastgate Square mall — even as staff warned Hamilton can’t afford the project unless the province pays all or most of capital costs, estimated at $875 million to $1 billion.

A senior official with the province’s GTA transit agency suggested there might be a lucrative light at the end of Hamilton’s LRT tunnel.

The “current Metrolinx funding assumption model” for Hamilton’s LRT project is 100 per cent capital funding from the province, John Howe, vice-president of investment strategy and project evaluation, told Thursday’s general issues committee meeting.

Howe cautioned that there is “no bank account waiting” with cash in it for Hamilton’s light rail project, but added Metrolinx is “quite bullish” on the city’s plan.

He urged the city to finish the studies needed for the transit agency to make an “ask” of the province.

“You’re so close to the finish line,” he said.

The committee approved another 12 months and $950,000 of staff work, paid for by Metrolinx or a provincially funded reserve, to complete reports on outstanding LRT issues such as cost, land use and potential B-line development needed to reach a “maximum state of implementation readiness.”

The motion approved Thursday also calls on Metrolinx to pay for extra HSR buses in the interim and “reaffirms” council’s commitment to improved public transit, including LRT.

The approved recommendations should not be seen as a promise to implement LRT, stressed city finance director Rob Rossini.

“We don’t have enough information to make a billion-dollar decision yet,” he said, urging councillors to “stay in the game, do your due diligence and wait for a senior government funding announcement.”

The staff recommendation was approved unanimously, but Mayor Bob Bratina was out of the room and Councillor Brad Clark was away at a medical appointment.

LikeHamilton
Nov 30, 2011, 9:27 PM
From Metrolinx today.

Metrolinx is planning mobility hubs all over the GTHA. Are you on this map?

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/mobilityhubs/MapsMHsm.jpg

SteelTown
Nov 30, 2011, 10:38 PM
Mohawk/James? Shouldn't it be Fennell/West 5th?

markbarbera
Dec 1, 2011, 12:21 AM
Well, for starters Mohawk and Upper James is the intersection where two planned rapid transit lines will eventually intersect, so that in itself makes it a more logical location for a mobility hub. Also, if you look at Metrolinx guidelines for mobility hubs, Mohawk and Upper James fits all objectives listed, while W5 and Fennell falls slightly short, particularly on objectives 5 and 9.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/mobilityhubs/mobility_hub_guidelines.aspx

thistleclub
Dec 3, 2011, 7:16 PM
"I just want to say that what we will do is we will continue to invest billions of dollars building transit in Toronto. We are going to continue to complete the air-rail link from Pearson to Union Station. We are going to invest in the Eglinton-Scarborough cross-town line. That is under way right now. And we are going to complete the extension of the Spadina expressway up into York region by 2015. The investments in transit in Toronto are unprecedented. More funding, more capital dollars have gone into Toronto to build transit now than for a generation." - Kathleen Wynne, Nov 28, 2011 (http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/house-proceedings/house_detail.do?Date=2011-11-28&Parl=40&Sess=1&locale=en#P169_33666)

thistleclub
Dec 3, 2011, 7:22 PM
Staff caution that if the city receives partial construction funding, it will impact Hamilton’s AA credit rating and reduce flexibility for funding other capital needs. The city’s debt is forecasted to peak at about $1.1 billion by 2019, without LRT factored in.

- Hamilton Spectator, Oct 13, 2011 (http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/608366--lrt-on-track-but-plans-need-funds-report)


...the government has just dialed down annual budget increases to 1 per cent overall, but the number is deceptive. The good news is that health gets an exemption to grow by 3 per cent, and education by 1 per cent; the bad news is that, combined, they make up 70 per cent of the budget — which means all other departments must take a big hit for the team.

“You’re talking about real cuts of upwards of 33 per cent in some ministries,” Duncan told me. “You’re right — some of them are going to be enormously controversial, politically.”

- Toronto Star, November 16, 2011 (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1088196)

SteelTown
Dec 8, 2011, 12:27 AM
Citizens must champion LRT, mayor will not

http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/636119--citizens-must-champion-lrt-mayor-will-not

Mayor Bob Bratina will not champion LRT, he told The Spectator Wednesday, but a champion is just what Hamilton will need, a Metrolinx executive told a business meeting one day earlier.

“In the case of LRT, we need to let the chips fall where they may … and see what the best outcome and best use of the money is, as opposed to the kind of champion that some seem to want to have,” Bratina told the paper’s editorial board.

“If somebody wants to stand up and be the champion, please go ahead. I’m going to be the champion of careful use of taxpayers’ money.”

Bratina said he disagrees with the idea that LRT will only happen if the city shows it is behind it.

But John Howe, vice-president of investment strategy and project evaluation for Metrolinx, says cities definitely need to champion their projects.

“LRT will be very difficult if we don’t have a strong partner alongside it,” Howe told a meeting of the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce’s transportation committee.

Howe said LRT has been proven a “real winner” in Hamilton through Metrolinx evaluations.

“We know LRT is a strong performer. It generates more benefits than costs. It’s a catalyst to economic expansion and higher quality of life.”

But he stressed there are many worthy projects vying for funding and there is a large gap between what Metrolinx believes are necessary regional transit expansions and what the province has committed to pay for.

“The task of keeping political leadership focused is not Metrolinx’s responsibility, it’s the responsibility of citizens here,” said Howe, who encouraged the chamber to continue to advocate for LRT with city leaders and the public.

The chamber, which supports the project, is responding by setting up an LRT task force that represents all divisions and committees of the organization.

“We think LRT impacts all areas, so the task force will look at human resources, energy and the environment, innovation and technology, business development, young professionals and entrepreneurs, government affairs and transportation,” said chamber CEO David Adames.

“We want to help with the economic development and return on investment sides of the argument for LRT so that as the city does its planning work, we can offer good input.”

Bratina said he will rely on city staff for direction on LRT.

“I’m not going to put emotion into a decision, an expensive decision. I’m going to let the facts carry that decision.”

He added that it would be 2018 or 2020 before any tracks are laid in Hamilton.

Two major decisions are needed for Hamilton’s LRT project, says Howe.

The city has yet to determine a location for a maintenance and storage facility for the trains and needs to work out how to bring the line alongside or into McMaster campus.

But the 30 per cent planning, design and engineering work that is considered the standard to make cost projections and implementation decisions is almost complete. Howe says city staff completed the work in record time.

msakalau
Dec 8, 2011, 3:07 AM
How can you be a champion of anything, if you do nothing?

Lame.

SteelTown
Apr 17, 2012, 8:41 PM
City refines LRT corridor plans

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/706965--city-refines-lrt-corridor-plans

The city is laying out how development will look along the proposed LRT line.

City staff have pinpointed four development “nodes” along the rapid transit corridor: Wentworth St., Sherman Ave., Scott Park (near the Pan Am stadium) and the Delta. These areas will be targeted for concentrated commercial and residential development, as well as personal services.

The city hopes these hubs of development will boost neighbourhoods and promote development in areas that need attention.

Councillors approved the node strategy and asked for staff to develop an implementation plan at Tuesday’s Planning Committee meeting.

You can read a .pdf of the full report here.....
http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/EB017990-95AC-4B5F-BC0D-E9B912DC3530/0/Apr17EDRMS_n293297_v1_7_2_PED12063.pdf

SteelTown
Jun 15, 2012, 10:53 PM
Light rail effort on track, city says

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/744282--light-rail-effort-on-track-city-says

A year after controversy erupted around the city’s rapid transit office, city staff say they’re still pushing to bring light rail to Hamilton.

Last summer, the city became embroiled in a debate about whether it was backing away from its pursuit of light rail transit (LRT).

Today, the city’s new director of transportation says his team is still working on gathering essential information it needs to forward to the province.

Hamilton LRT efforts have been combined into a new office that oversees all the transportation files in the city, including the HSR, cycling, foot traffic, LRT and inter-regional transit. Don Hull, formerly in charge of the HSR, is responsible for overseeing all of these files.

Hull says his team has been busy completing studies to forward to the province in advance of its decision about funding Hamilton’s rapid transit initiatives (which is expected in mid-2013).

These include noise and vibration studies to determine the effect of LRT on sensitive equipment at McMaster University, an environmental assessment of a new storage and maintenance facility, and more specific information about how much the project will cost.

Hull’s team is also studying how the LRT line could be phased in to help both the city and the province pay for the project.

“I think what’s really helpful is that we’ve taken on a very clear, focused mandate for 2012, so we know exactly what’s expected of us,” Hull said.

Until these studies are completed, Metrolinx chair Bruce McCuaig has said the regional transit authority won’t be able to make a decision about funding Hamilton’s LRT line.

Councillor Brian McHattie — who teamed with fellow councillor Jason Farr to put forward the motion reaffirming council’s support for LRT — says he’s pleased with the progress Hull’s office is making.

“I’m very satisfied. They actually are following up on each and every part of that motion that Councillor Farr and I moved and keeping in touch with Metrolinx,” McHattie said. “I think we’re in good shape.”

Last summer, Mayor Bob Bratina and city manager Chris Murray both made comments indicating the city was backing away from LRT in favour of pursuing all-day GO train service to Toronto. That prompted a motion from council in October supporting the continuation of a full investigation into the feasibility of light rail transit for Hamilton.

bigguy1231
Jun 16, 2012, 10:42 PM
"Hull’s team is also studying how the LRT line could be phased in to help both the city and the province pay for the project."

Considering the original proposal was for the province to pay for the whole thing, I don't see council going for it if the city is on the hook for any of it.

MalcolmTucker
Jun 17, 2012, 3:41 PM
"Hull’s team is also studying how the LRT line could be phased in to help both the city and the province pay for the project."

Considering the original proposal was for the province to pay for the whole thing, I don't see council going for it if the city is on the hook for any of it.
Was that the original proposal? Ottawa, Waterloo Region, Brampton, York Region and Toronto (when you look at all the projects together, not just bits and pieces) all have significant municipal contributions.

bigguy1231
Jun 17, 2012, 5:27 PM
Was that the original proposal? Ottawa, Waterloo Region, Brampton, York Region and Toronto (when you look at all the projects together, not just bits and pieces) all have significant municipal contributions.

According to the original proposal it wasn't supposed to cost the city a cent. Metrolinx was supposed to build it and run it. But then again that was a promise from the provincial government 2 elections ago. That's why the city jumped all over it. Streetcars for free. I don't see it happening if it's going to cost the city 100 or 200 million. Don't forget that's only for 1 line, the B line.

realcity
Jun 18, 2012, 5:31 PM
LRT is already a 6 year old campaign promise. forget about it. it won't happen. The money will be spent on a new TTC subway.

markbarbera
Jun 18, 2012, 10:01 PM
The funding formula was never clearly defined. While some assumed a Hamilton LRT project would receive 100% provincial funding, that level of funding was never actually promised during any campaign. What was promised was a commitment to have rapid transit built in Hamilton, and that promise was translated into a placeholder in the MoveOntario 2020 plan for two Hamilton Rapid transit lines to be built by 2020.

I would expect the funding would probably work out to an 80/20 split. Unless of course the feds decide to pony up some cash as well.

bigguy1231
Jun 19, 2012, 2:23 AM
The funding formula was never clearly defined. While some assumed a Hamilton LRT project would receive 100% provincial funding, that level of funding was never actually promised during any campaign. What was promised was a commitment to have rapid transit built in Hamilton, and that promise was translated into a placeholder in the MoveOntario 2020 plan for two Hamilton Rapid transit lines to be built by 2020.

I would expect the funding would probably work out to an 80/20 split. Unless of course the feds decide to pony up some cash as well.

If it's 80/20 as you say then it will never get built. The city will not spend that kind of money on 1 streetcar line.

In fact the city wouldn't have even gone as far as they have if they thought they were going to have to spend a dime on this. They have only moved forward thinking that the province was going to pay for it.

Dr Awesomesauce
Jun 19, 2012, 8:07 AM
The City's made it pretty clear that it's not willing pay a penny for LRT. Not the best attitude to have going forward and the results have been fairly predictable to date.

My feeling's always been that LRT is a one-shot deal. If we don't do it now, the opportunity may not arise again. That may sound dramatic to some but I've got the feeling that huge amounts of capital may not be available in the coming years.

If we'd taken this tack from the beginning - that we want it and are willing to pay for a portion of it - the situation might be different today.

Jon Dalton
Jun 19, 2012, 9:34 PM
Waterloo found LRT to be cheaper than no LRT in the long term, and voted to pay for it. The cost savings of intensification and the infrastructure that supports it must be considered. Hamilton doesn't have an endless supply of land to expand either, and yet must grow its tax base. As a taxpayer who plans to be in Hamilton long term, I support LRT from both a planning and a fiscal perspective, and I don't expect the city will pay nothing for it.

At minimum, the city is responsible for additional streetscaping that is not essential to installing new transit, but would add tremendous value to the overall project. This would not technically be an LRT cost, but something that would save money if done at the same time, and given the broader objectives of LRT, insane not to do. That said I would support 20% of the base costs of LRT being added to my tax bill. And in case anyone out there jumps to conclusions, I don't use HSR that often.

SteelTown
Aug 9, 2012, 10:53 PM
The City has selected a LRT Maintenance Storage Facility, 330 Wentworth St N.

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/7F7F45BB-7C5D-48F0-BFA7-00C2ED3D26C8/0/Aug13EDRMS_n340438_v1_7_2__PW11064a.pdf

msakalau
Aug 10, 2012, 2:55 AM
so wait...LRT is still alive?

SteelTown
Aug 10, 2012, 3:00 AM
Who said it was dead?

mattgrande
Aug 10, 2012, 2:55 PM
The PDF isn't opening for me, unfortunately.

Does this mean tracks will run down Wellington as well?

so wait...LRT is still alive?

Yep, planning never stopped. Last I heard, we're the furthest along with our planning in Ontario.

Edit - And of course by Wellington, I meant Wentworth.

SteelTown
Aug 10, 2012, 3:00 PM
The PDF isn't opening for me, unfortunately.

Does this mean tracks will run down Wellington as well?

Checked and the link is good.

On the very last page you'll see there's 8 options for a spur line to the storage facility. None going along Wentworth, mostly along Birch.

realcity
Aug 10, 2012, 3:36 PM
The Province or Metrolynx still hasn't showed us any money.

markbarbera
Aug 10, 2012, 3:54 PM
I believe spur line options 1a and 1b go along Wentworth.

If this is to be the maintenance yard, I would prefer to see the spur track run west from the site parallel to the CN track to James North and pick up the main LRT track there.

I really think the first phase of LRT should be a hybrid A-Line/B-Line LRT route that (at the bare minimum) has a route from James and Murray north to Gore Park, then west out to McMaster. This would link the James North GO station to the HSR's downtown terminal and follows the route with a population density most likely to prove LRT's sustainability. BRT can run on dedicated bus lanes along the rest of the currently existing A-Line and B-Line routes. Future phases can then expand the B-Line LRT eastward to Eastgate Square and the A-Line south to Mohawk College and the airport, with the new track following the same path as the dedicated bus lanes put down in the first phase.

Jon Dalton
Aug 10, 2012, 4:03 PM
Seems like Cannon / Birch / Sanford is the best option. The only disadvantage is that it would reduce Cannon St. by two lanes. I've seen Cannon down to two lanes recently due to road work and it seems to move just fine.

LikeHamilton
Aug 14, 2012, 1:25 PM
Hamilton’s light rail effort is on track, city says

Emma Reilly The Hamilton Spectator Sat Jun 16 2012

Transportation officials are completing studies to forward to province ahead of funding decision.

A year after controversy erupted around the city’s rapid transit office, city staff say they’re still pushing to bring light rail to Hamilton.
Last summer, the city became embroiled in a debate about whether it was backing away from its pursuit of light rail transit (LRT).

Today, the city’s new director of transportation says his team is still working on gathering essential information it needs to forward to the province.

Hamilton LRT efforts have been combined into a new office that oversees all the transportation files in the city, including the HSR, cycling, foot traffic, LRT and inter-regional transit. Don Hull, formerly in charge of the HSR, is responsible for overseeing all of these files.

Hull says his team has been busy completing studies to forward to the province in advance of its decision about funding Hamilton’s rapid transit initiatives (which is expected in mid-2013).

These include noise and vibration studies to determine the effect of LRT on sensitive equipment at McMaster University, an environmental assessment of a new storage and maintenance facility, and more specific information about how much the project will cost.

Hull’s team is also studying how the LRT line could be phased in to help both the city and the province pay for the project.

“I think what’s really helpful is that we’ve taken on a very clear, focused mandate for 2012, so we know exactly what’s expected of us,” Hull said.
Until these studies are completed, Metrolinx chair Bruce McCuaig has said the regional transit authority won’t be able to make a decision about funding Hamilton’s LRT line.

Councillor Brian McHattie — who teamed with fellow councillor Jason Farr to put forward the motion reaffirming council’s support for LRT — says he’s pleased with the progress Hull’s office is making.

“I’m very satisfied. They actually are following up on each and every part of that motion that Councillor Farr and I moved and keeping in touch with Metrolinx,” McHattie said. “I think we’re in good shape.”

Last summer, comments by Mayor Bob Bratina and city manager Chris Murray sparked concern about the city’s commitment to LRT. That prompted a motion from council in October supporting the continuation of a full investigation into the feasibility of light rail transit for Hamilton.

ereilly@thespec.com

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/744282--hamilton-s-light-rail-effort-is-on-track-city-says

LikeHamilton
Aug 14, 2012, 1:27 PM
McHattie fears Mississauga may get jump on LRT funding

By Emma Reilly The Hamilton Spectator Tue Aug 14 2012

Councillor Brian McHattie said on Monday that he's unsure whether Mayor Bob Bratina has lobbied the province to ensure Hamilton is at the top of the list for LRT funding.

Councillors approve four “nodes” along the proposed LRT route
A debate at City Hall about a light rail transit planning issue became a political discussion about whether the city is pushing hard enough for LRT funding at Queen's Park.

Councillor Brian McHattie said on Monday that he's unsure whether Mayor Bob Bratina has lobbied the province to ensure Hamilton is at the top of the list for LRT funding.

“I'm growing increasingly concerned that we haven't heard much about the overall LRT effort,” he said. “We're doing all this great work in Hamilton on the planning side … and it may well turn out that Mississauga has done a better job than us behind the scenes. This is a political process, and at this point, I have no idea where we're at.”

Bratina responded that though he's meeting with Transportation Minister Bob Chiarelli next week, he's not optimistic about the province's finances.

“When we see the premier going head-to-head with teachers, you've got to know there's a lot of pressure on spending in the province,” he said.

“I think I'm probably more nervous than I was a couple minutes ago,” McHattie responded. “I know the mayor's office has been involved, I think we need of a multipronged approach here.”

McHattie made his comments in a debate about a potential site for an LRT storage facility. After facing opposition from ward councillor Bernie Morelli, councillors tabled that decision for further review.

ereilly@thespec.com

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/779917--mchattie-fears-mississauga-may-get-jump-on-lrt-funding