NEW YORK | 3 Hudson Blvd (The Girasole) | 987 FT | 56 FLOORS | ON HOLD

[NYguy]

Design seems tweeked a little in this render...spire barely visible, but also there.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BYWjEoRh3K1/?taken-by=cityrealty

Construction has finally begun on Moinian Group's 1,000'+ tall supertower dubbed 3 Hudson Boulevard. Designed by FXFOWLE Architects, this environmentally-sensitive monster is going for LEED Platinum! The 1.8 MSF project rises from the corner of West 34th and Eleventh Ave and will have Class A offices, sky gardens, retail and a seemless connection to the 7 train.


https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/21042572_491724371190289_4339110669220577280_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTU5MTYxMzc2ODA3MTYwNjk2NQ%3D%3D.2



https://www.cityrealty.com/nyc/market-insight/features/future-nyc/construction-finally-begins-3-hudson-boulevard-see-new-rendering-fxfowle-designed-supertall/13225

Earlier this month, a new rendering was published on FXFOWLE’s website showing a more streamlined design topped by a 300-foot spire that would make the building among the tallest in the city. A new daytime rendering has also been posted on site depicting the same design without the spire. The building’s foundation was mostly finished during MTA’s construction of the 7 line extension meaning superstructure could begin relatively soon. According to FXFOWLE the tower is to be finished in 2021.



https://ds3.cityrealty.com/img/ea7db5f72760f5f95184bbb467dfc541f5ae462a+1004++0+60/3-hudson-boulevard-04.jpg



https://ds4.cityrealty.com/img/88713fc3bb30a86ba6b948121ee5c095ebc07948+1024++0+60/3-hudson-boulevard-05.jpg

[Submariner]

Not bad.

But does this mean that they have a tenant, or are they going ahead without one?

[NYguy]

Not bad.

But does this mean that they have a tenant, or are they going ahead without one?

They still may not have a full construction loan or tenant.

[Prezrezc]

seamless.........:brickwall: ;)

[jayden]

That spire is just, ugh.

[chris08876]

I kinda thinks it's incomplete without a spire. Seeing how one would look, IMO, it complements the tower. The angular nature of the tower. It's like the Bank of America tower that went on a diet.

It shouldn't be overly thick, but not NY Times pencil thin either. The spire diameter that is.

[JMKeynes]

Design seems tweeked a little in this render...spire barely visible, but also there.


https://ds3.cityrealty.com/img/ea7db5f72760f5f95184bbb467dfc541f5ae462a+1004++0+60/3-hudson-boulevard-04.jpg




This tower will be gorgeous.

[aquablue]

Yeah, the design is no longer twisted it seems, but its sleeker and overall less clunky looking. This futuristic looking tower is my favorite so far. Here's my favorite towers in HY ranked for design preference

1) 3 HY - Overall the highest quality tower in every way so far. Worthy of the 21st century. Graceful and highly contemporary.
2) 30 & 10 HY - Tallest and the most iconic (30) modern designs but a bit fat and clunky and 30 HY looks overbearing and unwelcoming from the 10th avenue side. Nice nautical theme to the design with the sails/ship bow which reflects the river setting.
3) 15 HY - NY needs some more buildings that take inspiration from organic forms and the shed is novel. The curvature is a nice change of pace from what will be mostly angular buildings in the vicinity.
4) Spiral - A daring take on a traditional box - imagination is a plus. Ingles is a man who isn't afraid to shake up things.
5) 35 HY - Nice curved top but I give it a minus for being too boxy and heavy down low. Seems like this one got value engineered to oblivion from what it was.
6) 50 HY - Just a massive glass box with a setback. Too simple and bulky although nice glass. Facade is just simple squares and could have been more interesting. One of Foster's poorer efforts. Far too expensive for what you get in terms of design. A Missed opportunity.
7) 55 HY - The worst because it's just a Meis Van Der Rohe lazy rehash with a facade gimmick, and far too short - a missed opportunity. Black boxes were interesting at one point, but it's no longer 1975. Get with the times.

[JMKeynes]

The Girasole is clearly torqued.

[Prezrezc]

^^
Hafta agree...
The catty-corner street-view kinda muddles the perspective.

[citybooster]

While some towers here may individually be better than the others, I'm not nearly as down on the last two or three on the list. Granted, individually they may be disappointing, maybe flawed... but as a group they compare, contrast and complement the others well.

I do agree about 3 HY being potentially the overall standout though 30 HY is no ugly stepsister. Its bulk which some see as intimidating and distracting make it the clear centerpiece and the glass is amazing. It will define HY and in time be well regarded as a major New York City icon for the 21st century.

I don't agree with the negativity towards 55 Hudson... contrasts really well from the others with its darker glass and it looks terrific. Similarly I think 50 HY is being severely underrated here. I'm not in love with the design's conservatism but functionally it performs brilliantly and the building will have heft and presence.

Love 10 HY and tend along with 3HY to think those two will as individual towers be most well regarded. My only beef with 35 HY is what is most often the focus of criticism.. has become too bulky, preferred the conversion from lower rectangular form tapering into a cylindrical form closer to the middle as an earlier incarnation had rendered. But still has a great visual appeal and the terra cotta used will be a nice addition...all glass can get boring and uncreative very quickly. Fortunately for the most part the glassy domination that most makes up the HY towers is very well put forward, but makes for a more compelling aesthetic to have other materials make up contrasting touches that give the overall development its own character. For the New York City of the early 21st century, both phases of HY will contribute to make for one of the most fascinating, vibrant, exciting part of the tapestry of the city... with the Shed and the Vessel, it will be a huge part of the definitive New York experience and culture.

[NYguy]

The twist is still there, but this one also tapers, which I like. I still don't trust that rendering angle though, I have to see more. I suspect it's still a very bulky tower. They have not filed for the full building yet, meaning we still don't know how much has changed as far as height goes. But it's moving in the right direction.

[CHAPINM1]

The twist is still there, but this one also tapers, which I like. I still don't trust that rendering angle though, I have to see more. I suspect it's still a very bulky tower. They have not filed for the full building yet, meaning we still don't know how much has changed as far as height goes. But it's moving in the right direction.

Not to draw comparasons; however, in regard to demention and in some regard design it appears to be a Bank of America 2.0, add 100 feet or so. Eleven years ago we would all be saying 'wow!' whereas today we are all saying, just another tower going up in the neverending growing NYC. :tup:

[NYguy]

Not to draw comparasons; however, in regard to demention and in some regard design it appears to be a Bank of America 2.0, add 100 feet or so. Eleven years ago we would all be saying 'wow!' whereas today we are all saying, just another tower going up in the neverending growing NYC. :tup:

It pretty much is another BofA, if they go with the spire. The BofA is a larger building, which makes it fatter (I wish we could put it on a diet). But this tower is somewhat bulky as well. I want to see full renderings so we can make out the changes.

[NYguy]

SEPTEMBER 10, 2017


http://m1.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/166181871.3g3CucBV.rps20170910_193457.jpg



http://m2.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/166181872.lqWrEjiC.rps20170910_193510.jpg

[NYguy]

https://ds3.cityrealty.com/img/ea7db5f72760f5f95184bbb467dfc541f5ae462a+1004++0+60/3-hudson-boulevard-04.jpg


This is the render they're going with on site.


SEPTEMBER 12, 2017


http://m3.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/166195933.ip1ElVa2.rps20170912_193704.jpg



http://m4.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/166195934.gsbxrWLO.rps20170912_193726.jpg



http://m2.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/166195932.PsAouSk4.rps20170912_193635.jpg

[JMKeynes]

Spectacular '!!!!!

[chris08876]

Additional Renderings Of 3 Hudson Boulevard’s Spire Appear, Hudson Yards

https://newyorkyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/3-Hudson-Boulevard-11th-Avenue-622x1024.jpg

https://newyorkyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/3-Hudson-Boulevard-Night-622x1024.jpg

https://newyorkyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/3-Hudson-Boulevard-Empire-State-Building-768x466.jpg

With activity making headway at several of the supertalls that will eventually comprise Hudson Yards, it should come as no surprise that progress is also occurring at The Moinian Group’s 3 Hudson Boulevard, where FX Fowle has designed a building that will rise approximately 1,050 feet to its rooftop. While Moinian has said plans for the tower are still being finalized, additional renderings of the spired version have again appeared thanks to its architect, and construction at the site also appears to have begun.

The tower will total 1.8 million square feet, and the new images from FX Fowle give several additional perspectives of what the supertall will look like from the surrounding blocks. The view north along Eleventh Avenue in the distant future is perhaps the most telling of what the neighborhood’s impending evolution will really entail, and the urban scale of so many adjacent supertalls has yet to be experienced in New York City.
==================
NYY (https://newyorkyimby.com/2017/09/additional-renderings-of-3-hudson-boulevards-spire-appear-hudson-yards.html)

[Zerton]

https://i.imgur.com/Hz4D4r6.jpg

I tried to force a little bit more realistic perspective. On the original, the lens zoom is really close.

[Prezrezc]

The spire intrigues me in that it somehow torques on its own. Render #3 somewhat shows this if you juxtapose a vertical line against the contour.

What's more, Render #1 seems to show a textured surface. The pic needs a bit of sharpening to see it better.

[NYguy]

The spire itself isn't bad. The building is still proving to be fat. Hard to say for sure with the contorted rendering angles.

Renders from the previous page...


https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/13113610/3-Hudson-Blvd-3.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/13113547/3-Hudson-Blvd-4.jpg



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/13113653/3-Hudson-Blvd-1.jpg

[Prezrezc]

The image looks deliberately engineered that way which seems to explain why 55H looks so incredibly squat.

While NYT comparisons have been insinuated, I hafta say this looks more like a cubist version of BofA.

[excel]

That is a beast spire.

[Prezrezc]

By the bye..........and I just realized this.........

........Anyone else besides me noticing the brilliantly understated setbacks in pics 2 and 3?

Took me a while.

Edit: Matter of fact, look at pic 2. Notice carefully at the left a similar setback motif and corner curve.

So what we're seing here is IMO is not just an ordinary single torque.

It's as if there're multiple torques accomodating the angles of the setback points.

[yankeesfan1000]

Getting a Wilshire Grand vibe from this one.

[chris08876]

By the bye..........and I just realized this.........

........Anyone else besides me noticing the brilliantly understated setbacks in pics 2 and 3?

Took me a while.

Edit: Matter of fact, look at pic 2. Notice carefully at the left a similar setback motif and corner curve.

So what we're seing here is IMO is not just an ordinary single torque.

It's as if there're multiple torques accomodating the angles of the setback points.

From FXfowle porfolio section regarding 3 Hudson:

3 Hudson Boulevard is a 1,000-foot tower with a statuesque form. Sited on Manhattan's West Side in Hudson Yards, the tower's twisting and tapered form transitions from the urban grid to true north-south orientation to capture optimal solar exposure. With a five-story podium and retail at street level, the tower features Class A office space, terraces, integrated sky-gardens, and views of the Hudson River, Hudson River Park, and the High Line.
Credit: .fxfowle.
(http://www.fxfowle.com/projects/51/3-hudson-boulevard/)

[NYguy]

By the bye..........and I just realized this.........

........Anyone else besides me noticing the brilliantly understated setbacks in pics 2 and 3?



The setbacks are the first thing I noticed in the newer rendering. It's why I was looking for more of a taper than some of the renders suggest. But it's the best part of the building I believe. The spire is substantial.



https://www.6sqft.com/new-renderings-of-3-hudson-boulevard-revive-the-proposed-skyscrapers-300-foot-spire/
https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/13113633/3-Hudson-Blvd-2.jpg

[generalscarr]

The spire itself isn't bad. The building is still proving to be fat. Hard to say for sure with the contorted rendering angles.

Renders from the previous page...


https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/13113610/3-Hudson-Blvd-3.jpg



Looks like someone didn't have the budget for a heli shoot, photoshopped night windows on a google 3D model and slapped a blurred photo of the harbor -
looking south from downtown Manhattan behind it as a background...quality stuff.

[NYguy]

Looks like someone didn't have the budget for a heli shoot, photoshopped night windows on a google 3D model and slapped a blurred photo of the harbor -
looking south from downtown Manhattan behind it as a background...quality stuff.

I've looked at a lot of renders, and generally if you've seen a lot, you notice a lot of stuff isn't accurate. No, this tower won't be twice the height of 55 Hudson, as it appears above. No, there won't be unobstructed views all the way to the Empire State. I guess we're supposed to just be looking at the building, with a general sense of the surroundings. Higher quality renderings will come out.

[Prezrezc]

What I'm saying here is appropriate to the thread; but as per showing a highly contextualized render of that nature, IMHO it behooves the person who/entity that that creaated it to portray as accurately as possible a genuine scale of the project in its unaltered surroundings.

Anyone capable of doing so can craft a finely detailed render of a tower abstracted from its intended environs. To do so in a manner true to those environs, however, is critical.

To do less IMO bespeaks a rather lazy approach to the task at hand.

Okay...So do your finely-tuned standalone tower drawing. And in another render, superimpose it to where it's slated to rise as professionally as you can. The stage of tower design doesn't matter as much as lending an accurate depiction to the setting, of course.

Point is just do that and you'll have a greater chance of earning the trust of folks like us who subscribe to the imperative that context is everything. And I mean every...thing.

Surely I'm not saying it's easy to pull off; but half-baked efforts like the ones above don't pass muster in my parallel universe. ;)

[JSsocal]

Renderings are first and foremost marketing tools for the building, for investors, for buyers. Virtually every last one takes liberties to make the building appear better. Many times this includes diminishing the surroundings, most people don't know or care about heights of most buildings. This is all just standard stuff.

[mrnyc]

do they have a major tenant lined up yet to get this going?

i take they are fishing for a big catch like morgan stanley, fox, deutsche bank or perhaps even amazon hq2???

[Prezrezc]

Virtually every last one takes liberties to make the building appear better...

Point duly noted; but as you suggest, taking liberties can for some ::raises hand:: open up a Pandora's box of sorts.

I see a fine line between marketing tactics and toying with one's susupension of disbeleif. In other words, someone like me who has the occasional propensity to literalize things (i.e. the euphemism, sarcastic dialogue and, apropos to this thread, visual abstraction) will look at something akin to these renders and have a cow because it just looks wrong.

Maybe in my parallel universe, any "WYSIWYG" approach to marketing a tower like this needs to have as its main focus an idea of what my project is really supposed to look like in the surounding urban context.

My 2¢.



do they have a major tenant lined up yet to get this going?

i take they are fishing for a big catch like morgan stanley, fox, deutsche bank or perhaps even amazon hq2???

My understanding is that they're going forward with that assumption 90-to-100% on target.

[nylkoorB]

Getting a Wilshire Grand vibe from this one.

You beat me to it. I was just going to say that. For me it's because of the spire.
:roofvsspire:
I think spires work on some buildings, but not on others. Central Park Tower I think would look really good with a spire. 3 WTC's planned spires looked really good on the renderings and I was disappointed when they removed those. But the spire on Whilshire Grand looks really bad and tacky imo, and I feel like they only did it so they can claim to be taller than Salesforce. It doesn't fit in well with the building and I'm getting similar vibes from the renders on this one. It seems like it'll just be an easy way to claim more height. Hopefully I'm wrong about this one and it ends up looking really nice once it's actually constructed.
As far as the building itself though, I don't have a problem with it. I'll always be glad to have more supertalls in NYC, but I'm not feeling the spire on this one.

[NYguy]

What I'm saying here is appropriate to the thread; but as per showing a highly contextualized render of that nature, IMHO it behooves the person who/entity that that creaated it to portray as accurately as possible a genuine scale of the project in its unaltered surroundings.



I think you're reading to much into it. It's just a simple renering, a preliminary one at that. I've seen renderings that have used completely different cities as a background. The point is, you wiill eventually see more detailed rendering. We don't even know for fact that the spire is still on.

[franktko]

You beat me to it. I was just going to say that. For me it's because of the spire.
:roofvsspire:
I think spires work on some buildings, but not on others. Central Park Tower I think would look really good with a spire. 3 WTC's planned spires looked really good on the renderings and I was disappointed when they removed those. But the spire on Whilshire Grand looks really bad and tacky imo, and I feel like they only did it so they can claim to be taller than Salesforce. It doesn't fit in well with the building and I'm getting similar vibes from the renders on this one. It seems like it'll just be an easy way to claim more height. Hopefully I'm wrong about this one and it ends up looking really nice once it's actually constructed.
As far as the building itself though, I don't have a problem with it. I'll always be glad to have more supertalls in NYC, but I'm not feeling the spire on this one.

Nobody cares whether a building is 6th tallest or 45th tallest. It's when you're going for that #1 spot with your spire that things turn ugly ;)

[NYguy]

SEPTEMBER 26, 2017


http://m6.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/166275816.INoxCwvZ.rps20170926_181527.jpg



http://m7.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/166275817.k7Cu8GN7.rps20170926_181551.jpg

[NYguy]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZjUEG2lZsW/?taken-by=icprogress

https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/21985474_1622448201146500_7111118888892366848_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTYxMzIyMTMzNDY5NTEyMzczNA%3D%3D.2&se=6

[patriotizzy]

I'm very excited for this redesign. Looks more sophisticated. Don't know why specifically, but maybe it's due to the fact that the facade angles all the way to the top to thin it out.

[chris08876]

The remaining low-rises to the North in post #738 down the line should see towers. Much of the low rises in the area are being snagged up. Which is good. This area of Manhattan was pretty short a few years ago.

[mrnyc]

nice -- that view from above down into the pit is exactly the view i was wondering about lately.

its good to see a little action in there, although not much has changed as of yet.

[ILNY]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4472/24201368738_7826307ea0_o.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/CSAkLf)3 Hudson Boulevard (https://flic.kr/p/CSAkLf) by NyConstructionPhoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87372922@N00/), on Flickr


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4474/24201368218_1a59061e59_o.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/CSAkBh)3 Hudson Boulevard (https://flic.kr/p/CSAkBh) by NyConstructionPhoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87372922@N00/), on Flickr

[NYguy]

They can't figure out what to do with this one. And the new design is horrible, at least according to these renderings.



http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/3-hudson-boulevard-is-getting-a-major-upgrade/

3 Hudson Boulevard is getting a major upgrade

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/3hb-renderings_final_10-31-2017__hudson_hero_151064644.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=915


By Lois Weiss
October 31, 2017


Developer Joe Moinian is rebooting 3 Hudson Blvd. and has brought in JLL to oversee the development of the new office tower.

Since Peter Riguardi’s team at JLL was hired in August, the architects at FXFOWLE have redesigned the building to better align with today’s office tenants — incorporating larger floor plates, for example.

The redesign boosts the tower to 2 million square-feet on 53 floors while lowering its height to 940 feet. Completion is now scheduled for 2021.

To kick off the reboot, a groundbreaking ceremony is to be held Friday with elected officials.

“We have also brought JLL to help us on every aspect of this project — be it leasing, financing, capital partners and input from their advisory board,” said Moinian.

Riguardi, chairman and president of JLL’s Tri-State Region, explained it was hired because of JLL’s “vast experience” representing tenants of scale who have moved to ground up development and its “market-leading” debt business.

“We are putting together the puzzle: how do we find a tenant and how do we find a partner and move forward under the best circumstances for the Moinian Group,” he said.

Declining to elaborate on a “partner,” other sources explained this could take the form of a tenant that wants to buy its own floors or an investor or fund that wants to become a minority stakeholder.

Moinian, for instance is partners with SL Green Realty Corp. on other projects including 3 Columbus Circle.

Sitting on the northeast corner of West 34th Street and 11th Avenue across from the Javits Center, the site is also bounded by West 35th Street and the west side of Hudson Boulelvard Park, right by the turtle shell-covered entrance to the No. 7 train.

“We are sitting on a full block with unobstructed views — 360-degree views, to the south, northeast and especially west, because we have Javits [the low-rise convention center] across the street,” Moinian said. “From the fourth floor you can see the water and New Jersey.”

Purchased in 2005 from Verizon for $54.788 million, the MTA has been using the site for a decade to stage the No. 7 subway construction. It was recently turned over to the developer, who has begun work on its foundation, which goes right into the bedrock.

As a forest of Related Cos. and Brookfield towers are already open or rising nearby, Moinian’s well-located site is just one of a few remaining spots in the Hudson Yards area for a world-class single-or multi-tenant HQ.

But like the last bridesmaid to get engaged, despite years of efforts by Avison Young to ensure the building’s former iteration was widely courted, poked and prodded, there’s still no ring on the finger — or anchor tenant inked on a dotted line.

The office tower was designed by Dan Kaplan of FXFOWLE to face the sun as it twists off the city’s 22 degree-angled street grid.

“We made the building way more efficient,” Moinian said of the new LEED Gold targeted structure.

The center core base floors will now spread from 50,400 square feet with 18-foot floor-to-ceiling heights to the tower floors of over 40,000 square feet.

There’s also a setback on the eighth floor for a terrace.

The top two floors are set aside for a conference center, or perhaps executive or cafeteria dining, depending on the tenant.

Automated parking is expected to be available.

With 12,600 square feet of retail, Moinian is now courting a white table restaurant as well as a café with outdoor seating along Hudson Boulevard Park.

A bench in that fountain-filled oasis has been named for Oskar Brecher, the Moinian Group’s executive who spearheaded the development of the building and passed away suddenly last year.

The president of the Hudson Yards / Hell’s Kitchen Alliance, Robert Benfatto, thinks that 3 Hudson’s time has come. “Tenants have been popping up, but it just takes a long time to lease,” Benfatto observed.

Three years ago, Moinian noted, “It was who is willing to come? And now it’s who’s not coming? Now I think it’s happening. All the chips are in place.”




https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/3hb-renderings_10-30-2017__view_from_west_3840x21_151064678.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=407

[NYer34]

Wow, what a Turd Burglar of a building this new design is.

Moinian is a major scumbag - a slightly more upscale Sam Chang. No surprise he'd pull this sort of bait-and-switch.

But WTF is the Post calling this a "major upgrade" for?!

[Hudson11]

here are some better renderings from the official website which I hope are up to date. The ones above are cringe inducing. Fxfowle's website is saying 1000ft. I hope we don't lose another supertall in a redesign.

http://3hudsonboulevard.com/gallery/

http://3hudsonboulevard.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/3HB_01_The_building_page_header3.jpg

http://3hudsonboulevard.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/3HB_04_The_building_page_gallery14-1.jpg

http://3hudsonboulevard.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/3HB_01_The_building_page_header4.jpg

[citybooster]

I want to see an official update, something quantifiably recent and final. The redesign as captured by the earlier pics look awful... not that it would be a horrible building but so generally a glass box...okay, decent.. mediocre. That's not what should be the aim, all the talk of the needs of business notwithstanding. The other pics were more reassuring, but we don't need value engineering... we need bold, ambitious risk takers that want to make a statement of standing out, and the original design was really cool and stood out.

[Crawford]

Well that sucks.

On the positive side, building will be significantly larger, meaning greater economic impact, but I would prefer the taller design.

Hopefully the spire option is still in play. Don't like the boring box look in the new design.

[NYguy]

here are some better renderings from the official website which I hope are up to date. The ones above are cringe inducing. Fxfowle's website is saying 1000ft. I hope we don't lose another supertall in a redesign.

http://3hudsonboulevard.com/gallery/




That's the last design, the one that had the spire. Look through the previous pages.

The Post render is the design we haven't seen before.

[jayden]

Does this mean the hideous spire is gone?

[Prezrezc]

While the reporting of this seemingly unfortunate turn of events looks like reliable journalism, I have my doubts.

Let me pose the following:

1. Why would Moinian wait until well into foundation work to radically change a design that's been advertised as official one since public renderings first came out? Is there any legitimate precedent to this kind of maneuvering?

2. Isn't this the same person whose ability to have this project fully financed was seriously called into question not that long ago, even while site prep was taking place??

3. Has this apparent discrepancy between the "latest" design been reconciled between the official developer's website and the New York Post? If not, why?

4. Why is said New York Post being looked at as a credible source of information let alone the time of day anyhow? Does anyone who lives in the NYC Metro area seriously think that a dog-eared, third-rate publication known (and outed) for biased reporting and click-baiting sensationalism has the desire to actually fact-check on what they "report"?

I mean...You can pull one of these dime-a-dozen writers out of a Cracker Jack box and have them dummy up a fake resume at no charge.

Just saying.

I need incontrovertible proof that this really is true. Something's funky about all this...and if the slightest magnitude of that funk comes from Moinian, he should be called on the carpet, if not investigated outright.

[Hudson11]

That's the last design, the one that had the spire. Look through the previous pages.

The Post render is the design we haven't seen before.

I'm thinking the spire design IS the new design. Moinian never commented on it when the spired tower popped up. Most importantly the rendering in the post doesn't have the torque which the post reported was retained in the redesign. I think the 940' height is true, but the turd renderings in the post aren't.

[citybooster]

We'll just have to stay tuned then. I would rather have(though not really like) a bit of a height cut and some widening but not at the cost of that turd crap we saw. Hopefully the design still isn't screwed with too much. At least 50 Hudson had the slight bump to over 1,000 ft. Trade one for the other in the supertall designation. But it would be nice to have something rivalling if not surpassing the height of 30 Hudson... maybe Frank Mc Court's eventual residential tower in the area. Is that still in play?

[NYguy]

The render is from the architects, we know websites aren't always updated with the most current information. Also, we've seen Larry Silverstein do this with 2 WTC, so it's not unheard of. We just better hope some info just got crossed up somewhere, but I'm reading that article as an informercial from the developer.

My main problem with that Post render (and description) is that the tower is gonna be fat and wide, just like the Spiral and 50 Hudson. It's too much, we need more tapering towers there that appeal to the skyline.

[Prezrezc]

With all due respect--and I'm not trying to be contrarian here--but here are my rebuttals, by point:


The render is from the architects, we know websites aren't always updated with the most current information.

How did the Post obtain this? Did they ask for it or did 3hud(dot)com or whoever it is volunteer the information?

Also, we've seen Larry Silverstein do this with 2 WTC, so it's not unheard of.

True that; but despite its fluidity, at least here there was a backstory to the whoe saga; and the sources that reported the informationhave proven themselves much higher up on the credibility scale.

We just better hope some info just got crossed up somewhere, but I'm reading that article as an informercial from the developer.

I do too. The timing of this in my mind enhances that possibility. Plus it bespeaks lack of integrity from two of the three parties involved: Moinian from throwing this curveball at this stage of the game, and the Post (color me shocked) for allowing themselves to be used as a platform for the gamesmanship of a developer with IMHO a somewhat iffy reputation (A few Google search results bolsters my argument at least in my own eyes).

My main problem with that Post render (and description)...

...Hence my post from earlier today.

Again, if this story turns out to be 100% gospel truth: then let this be my eulogy for a potentially great supertall:

"You, Mr. Moinian, had a chance to make a dramatic visual statement simply because the City of New York trusted you with the task of doing so."

Instead, you curb-stomped it by figuratively (my emphasis) prostituting yourself to a vapid, corporate bottomliner-produced "form follows function" algorithm."

"And I knew that something wasn't quite right, given the way you handled this whole rigamarole when you made more than a few people audibly question your ability to keep the project you were charged with solvent."

"But that's water under the 59th Street Bridge. If this latest manifestation of your project indeed turns out to be the one to reach the sky, remember this:
You had a design that at least tried to think beyond the literal box; but you just put yourself back into it."

I shall now await further developments.

[chris08876]

The extra sq-footage is nice, but lets just wait and see. Right now, its a near super tall. Lets not forget that 940 ft is nothing to be disappointing about.

It said 1000 ft on the FXFowle site for the project:

" 3 Hudson Boulevard is a 1,000-foot tower with a statuesque form. Sited on Manhattan's West Side in Hudson Yards, the tower's twisting and tapered form transitions from the urban grid to true north-south orientation to capture optimal solar exposure. With a five-story podium and retail at street level, the tower features Class A office space, terraces, integrated sky-gardens, and views of the Hudson River, Hudson River Park, and the High Line. "

Either they didn't update it or.... there is something we don't know.

[jackster99]

There are just so many other great projects going on right now, I can't even be bothered to get mad/disappointed about this one honestly. It will still be good filler at 940 feet, and at the end of the day, with projects like Steinway, Verre, Vanderbilt, everything else in Hudson Yards etc going on, who cares...

If this was being built in the dearth of new projects of the 1990s and it received this chop, that would have been another matter

[streetscaper]

There are just so many other great projects going on right now, I can't even be bothered to get mad/disappointed about this one honestly. It will still be good filler at 940 feet, and at the end of the day, with projects like Steinway, Verre, Vanderbilt, everything else in Hudson Yards etc going on, who cares...

If this was being built in the dearth of new projects of the 1990s and it received this chop, that would have been another matter

This is my sentiment as well

[Prezrezc]

I'll gladly cede the point that 940' is better than snything under 700'.

But that latest design change...if it stands...is a craven display of architectural banality.

It's so...IDK...clichéd.

[antinimby]

My bet is that the valued engineered version is the latest and will be one that will be built.

[chris08876]

But in the end, did we really want this tower with this design to be the signature tower for the Hudson Yards neighborhood? That will be reserved for 30 Hudson, which if one hasn't checked it out in person, its quite monolithic. Plus it fits the complex just right, with its sister tower 10 Hudson.

Phase II I doubt will yield a taller tower, but in this crazy boom, who knows. Still from an aesthetic point of view, 850-970 ft IMO is just right for the residential portion in Phase II.

[NYguy]

With all due respect--and I'm not trying to be contrarian here--but here are my rebuttals, by point:



They say denial is not just a river in Egypt...;)


https://ny.curbed.com/2017/11/3/16604408/3-hudson-boulevard-hudson-yards-new-renderings

New looks at Moinian’s Hudson Yards office tower, 3 Hudson Boulevard
The tower will rise to 940 feet and offer up 2 million square feet of office space


BY TANAY WARERKAR
NOV 3, 2017


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UKdYAZ6n-zhVVzr5HtZ0wATTpy4=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9604241/3HB_Renderings_10_30_2017__view_from_east_3840x2160.jpg



https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/kV6WWLzuHg5-0LPtQLdCsGsx68w=/600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9604243/3HB_Renderings_10_30_2017__view_from_west_3840x2160.jpg



https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/kXeTfkuRo-Ptp4kdOmNyBmFOl_w=/600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9604247/3HB_Renderings_10_30_2017_view_from_west_night_3840x2160.jpg




VIDEO


JMqddjS70T8




governorandrewcuomo (https://www.flickr.com/photos/governorandrewcuomo/38088443956/sizes/l)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4449/38088443956_4958564798_b.jpg



https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4480/38111702742_e4fd132333_b.jpg




http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-property-hudsonyards-moinian/new-yorks-moinian-group-launches-tower-in-hudson-yards-idUSKBN1D320O

New York's Moinian Group launches tower in Hudson Yards


Moinian, a large New York developer, will fund the almost $100 million it will take to finish the foundations of 3 Hudson Boulevard on Manhattan’s Far West Side, said founder and chief executive Joseph Moinian.

Moinian is seeking $250 million to $500 million in investment through the EB-5 program that provides immigrants with permanent U.S. residency in exchange for a minimum investment of generally $1 million, Moinian said at a ground-breaking ceremony.

“We are in paper work as we speak,” said Moinian, adding the company is open to gaining partners to complete the 2 million-square-foot retail and office tower that will occupy an entire block.

[NYguy]

https://www.6sqft.com/3-hudson-boulevard-loses-height-in-updated-plan-but-gains-square-footage/


https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/01111335/3-Hudson-Boulevard-November-2017-1.jpg

[Prezrezc]

Touché. ;) :surrender:

It's certainly better than nothing.

And 940' is nothing to sneer at...I guess.

At least it has some kind of fin on the side. I trust the facade work will turn out better than what the renders provide.

[NYguy]

It's a horrible design. After giving us years of one design, they suddenly give us a better version, then yank it away for the worst version yet. The fact that this is 940 ft. is part of the problem. This building is a hulk. The design is very generic, and there will be nothing to hide behind. There should have been hecklers at that ceremony. I know it's good for the city that we're getting this new space. But that design is horrid. I would rather it were just a plain box.

[Prezrezc]

The drastic plunge in design quality is an agreeable point; but the more I look at it, the more it seems to fit the periphery and acquiesce to 30 Hudson's due prominence.

The supertall status loss IMO is adequately mitigated by the bulk of the tower, which remains the prime motif of the area's architecture, sort of acting as a counterpart to the 57th Corridor's skinny dimensions.

Would you agree that 3H's previous twist design would be more appropriate as a centerpiece tower? I'm beginning to think that way, perhaps if it boiled down to aesthetic considerations alone.

This IMO is also something to ponder given how the original design would juxtapose itself against the "Pfizer Spire". Would there be too much of a competition for visual impact?

2¢.

BTW: As we both know, there are plenty of cases wherein official renderings of a tower ready for construction have been known to change, even well into the process.

After all, didn't this proposed ob deck facade change for 1 Vandy come as a bit of a suprprise?

It did for me. I'm hoping we see that here.

[JSsocal]

All 4 towers at that intersection are going to be large rectangular boxes (Spire included). There simply should be more ambitious office buildings here. Since these all float in the 900-1000 foot range these are all going to overwhelm/block 30hy.

[Prezrezc]

That's just it.

I understand your frustration; but 30H is going to outstrip the place and show towers by at least 300 feet. So from some perspectives this advantage will not be entirely lost.

Ambitious designs IMO are well and good; but not to the point of distractibg from the apex of the broader development, if that makes sense.

3H's twisty design somehow seeks the kind of presence that 30H has going forward, even with HY Phase II yet to come. And if you were to include the spire to 3H, such is the case all the more IMO.

As opposed to the skinny Billionaires' Row taking shape at 57th, this area will be all about bulk. And it should be, frankly. This kind of supertall doesn't really mix with "pretty".

Rather, it shows how perhaps the biggest concentration of 900'+ monsters in the Western World flexes its might adjusting to the 21st Century.

[sbarn]

Wow, the redesign is terrible and soul crushing.

[Busy Bee]

It's extremely disappointing, but soul crushing? Nah, this is what soul crushing looks like:

http://www.aviewoncities.com/img/nyc/kveus2348b.jpg
_ (http://www.aviewoncities.com/img/nyc/kveus2348b.jpg)

[Prezrezc]

Yeah; but to be fair the 1970's were chock-a-blockwith boxy stuff...all over the country.

It says a lot when the two erstwhile tallest in the country (WTC1, Sears/Willis) were just that.

As I said before, we might see some tweaks as the project moves along. And there's a lot of precedent to that.

[rgarri4]

Yikes. This project had my interest after the first render updates. But now its just blaah. Good filler I guess.

[NYguy]

Consider that this is the view standing in between 50 Hudson (left) and the Spiral (right), two very massive and broad shaped towers of above 1,000 ft.


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UKdYAZ6n-zhVVzr5HtZ0wATTpy4=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9604241/3HB_Renderings_10_30_2017__view_from_east_3840x2160.jpg



Throw in this massive design, and although the designs are different, you could end up with a skyline killing element like this...not really what you want on the waterfront.


http://c8.alamy.com/comp/CNB1PM/xyz-buildings-on-sixth-avenue-in-manhattan-new-york-city-CNB1PM.jpg
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-xyz-buildings-on-sixth-avenue-in-manhattan-new-york-city-47571404.html


http://c8.alamy.com/comp/EE16YB/stacked-xyz-towers-exxon-mcgraw-hill-and-celanese-three-office-towers-EE16YB.jpg

[tjr101]

There's a lot of comments referencing the Spiral as if its a sure thing. How are we certain the design for that won't get butchered like 3 Hudson all in the name of "cost" and "efficiency." In the end it may still end up being another giant glass box.

[gramsjdg]

It's a horrible design. After giving us years of one design, they suddenly give us a better version, then yank it away for the worst version yet.

That disturbing scenario has more or less become a theme in Manhattan since the 2008 crash.

NYC developers could put on a clinic about over-promising and under-delivering/"value" engineering/not completing their projects.

1WTC spantenna debacle,
Tower Verre height cut
CPT redesign and then spire removal
1 Vandy height cut
30HY height cut
175 Greenwich height cut, spire removal, redesign
200 Greenwich design downgrade
One 57 dropping crown lighting
etc...

Notable exceptions are Steinway (height increase, same design) and 30 Park (height increase, same design)

[Submariner]

That disturbing scenario has more or less become a theme in Manhattan since the 2008 crash.

NYC developers could put on a clinic about over-promising and under-delivering/"value" engineering/not completing their projects.

1WTC spantenna debacle,
Tower Verre height cut
CPT redesign and then spire removal
1 Vandy height cut
30HY height cut
175 Greenwich height cut, spire removal, redesign
200 Greenwich design downgrade
One 57 dropping crown lighting
etc...

Notable exceptions are Steinway (height increase, same design) and 30 Park (height increase, same design)

To be fair, TV suffered a height reduction at the hands of a sordid bureaucrat, not a bean counter.

[Zerton]

Almost all the secondary buildings in the Hudson Yards area began with very sculptural designs and have devolved into basic-b*tch boxes. Kind of sad :/

[gramsjdg]

To be fair, TV suffered a height reduction at the hands of a sordid bureaucrat, not a bean counter.

True

[tjr101]

The diagram for this building needs to be updated. Don't know why it was placed ahead of 30 Hudson and the ESB to begin with.

[chris08876]

https://discourse-cdn-sjc1.com/business2/uploads/yimby/original/3X/3/c/3c2ef852f12123632547a958e227b6c240096552.jpg
Credit: JC_Heights (http://www.yimbyforums.com/t/new-york-3-hudson-boulevard-940-ft-53-floors/199/237?u=chris08876)

[chris08876]

Developer to begin search early next year for massive financing package: sources

In what would be one of the largest New York City debt-equity deals of this market cycle, the Moinian Group is on the hunt for a $3 billion debt-and-equity package to make its Hudson Yards tower 3 Hudson Boulevard a reality.

Moinian recently hired JLL to lead the search for a massive financing package, which is expected to consist of roughly $1.8 billion in debt and $1.2 billion in equity, sources told The Real Deal.

The developer, which broke ground earlier this month on the 53-story, 2 million-square-foot office tower, has not locked in an anchor tenant.

JLL’s Aaron Appel, head of debt and equity finance for the New York capital markets practice, was tapped to search for the $3 billion package. Moinian is expected to officially be in the market for the package early next year, sources said.

For the tenant search, Moinian also recruited JLL to replace Avison Young, which has been handling the leasing effort the past few years. The tower, located at West 34th Street and 11th Avenue, is expected to be complete by 2021.

Representatives for JLL declined to comment, and Moinian did not immediately respond.

While Joseph Moinian said at the groundbreaking ceremony he wants as much as $500 million in EB-5 funding, sources said EB-5 funding may prove to be unnecessary, and not ultimately factor into the capital stack.

If Moinian does pull off a financing package of that size, he would join a small group of developers to secure several billion dollars in the tight lending environment for construction projects. Related Companies and partners closed on a $3.8 billion package for 50 Hudson Yards in September and GID Development Group locked in $2.4 billion in financing for the three-building Waterline Square project on the Upper West Side late last year.
======================
https://therealdeal.com/2017/11/27/moinian-targets-3b-in-debt-equity-for-3-hudson-boulevard/

[Prezrezc]

I'm showing my "behind-the-curvedness" here but....

He's still looking for money to secure this deal????

Call me an idealist; but oughtn't it be common sense to have your highly vaunted project fully funded before you start digging a big-ass hole in the ground?

This was prolly explained here before; but to me it doesn't look like smart business...or at least how a developer with some idea of what the hell he's doing would approach it.

[NYguy]

Call me an idealist; but oughtn't it be common sense to have your highly vaunted project fully funded before you start digging a big-ass hole in the ground?



It's not uncommon, a lot of projects start that way, with an initial construction loan. As far as I know, Central Park Tower still hasn't fully received financing. And there's no tenant signed here as of yet.

But that's a minor issue compared to this garbage design they are pushing on us. I"ll just be blunt. I hate it. It's too big to be that ugly. The other plans weren't the best, but they were something. This is an insult.

[ILNY]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4562/38757859701_3aa172509f_o.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/223Uaon)3 Hudson Boulevard (https://flic.kr/p/223Uaon) by NyConstructionPhoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87372922@N00/), on Flickr


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4530/37871265995_1f232d7cd4_o.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/ZGy8XZ)3 Hudson Boulevard (https://flic.kr/p/ZGy8XZ) by NyConstructionPhoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87372922@N00/), on Flickr


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4572/38757858901_00df32dd94_o.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/223Ua9z)3 Hudson Boulevard (https://flic.kr/p/223Ua9z) by NyConstructionPhoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87372922@N00/), on Flickr

[chris08876]

https://discourse-cdn-sjc1.com/business2/uploads/yimby/optimized/3X/0/0/00e6c852581f73304a22d09de56b7e6b34eb6f14_1_666x500.jpg
Credit: rbrome (http://www.yimbyforums.com/t/new-york-3-hudson-boulevard-940-ft-53-floors/199/239?u=chris08876)

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2017/12/05/office-towers-beef-up-amenities-to-lure-picky-tenants/

Office towers beef up amenities to lure picky tenants

By Lois Weiss
December 5, 2017


...JLL recommended Joseph Moinian to tweak his proposed 3 Hudson Boulevard with the larger floorplates and private lobbies now coveted by corporations.



Too bad he couldn't be tweaked on overall design.

[Prezrezc]

Indeed.

I just hope realitiy makes those renders look like something a kindergartener could make a better crayon-drawn copy of.

[ILNY]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4735/27665297679_c9c0421bed_o.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/J9FTa2)3 Hudson Boulevard (https://flic.kr/p/J9FTa2) by NyConstructionPhoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87372922@N00/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4735/38563977325_5618c26010_o.jpg
(https://flic.kr/p/21KLsUM)3 Hudson Boulevard (https://flic.kr/p/21KLsUM) by NyConstructionPhoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87372922@N00/), on Flickr

[NYguy]

A good read on what's going on here.


https://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/moinians-hudson-yards-reboot/

Moinian’s Hudson Yards reboot
With no tenants locked in at 3 Hudson Yards Boulevard and fierce competition, Joe Moinian revamps his strategy on a legacy-defining office tower.

By Rich Bockmann and Mark Maur
January 01, 2018

In August, Joe Moinian watched yet another potential anchor tenant for his planned Hudson Yards tower slip through his fingers, when the pharmaceutical giant Pfizer agreed to move into a rival project next door.

It’s a drill the developer has become all too familiar with.

In the past several years, tenants have enthusiastically flocked to Manhattan’s Far West Side. Companies such as Coach, Time Warner, the National Hockey League and mega-asset manager BlackRock have all inked leases in the area.

Despite the breakneck pace of leasing activity in the neighborhood, however, the Moinian Group has still not reeled in an anchor for its planned 3 Hudson Boulevard.

But the developer recently signaled that he’s shaking up his strategy at the project, which sits at the corner of 11th Avenue and 34th Street.

In the past few months, the 63-year-old developer fired and replaced his Avison Young leasing team, scaled back the size of tower, scrapped plans for a residential component of the project and hired a team to secure $3 billion in debt and equity. Oh, and he broke ground on the site’s foundation.

“You can only go so long without a tenant,” said real estate attorney Joshua Stein, who is not involved in the project but has been keeping tabs on it. “That is a little scary.”

Moinian has a lot on the line — 3 Hudson Boulevard is a legacy-defining project for him in a high-profile and emerging location. And as rivals like Related Companies, Brookfield Property Partners and Tishman Speyer lock in tenants, the industry is watching Moinian to see if he can move the project from rendering to reality.

“If developers can sign on new anchor tenants, then they’ll get their deals done,” said Alexander Goldfarb, a REIT analyst at Sandler O’Neill.

“You need tenants to feel like this is a project that the developer can deliver,” he said.




Moinian was one of the first to the Hudson Yards party.

The developer, who declined to comment for this article, bought the site from Verizon for $54.8 million — a steal by today’s standards — in late 2005. His purchase came just months after the Bloomberg administration rezoned 48 blocks on the Far West Side.

His foresight couldn’t have been more on point.

High-profile developers — from Related to Extell Development to Tishman Speyer to Brookfield — all followed right behind Moinian en masse. In 2008, of course, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority tapped Related to develop 28 acres over its rail yards — a city-within-a-city project that’s now transforming the once-industrial section of Manhattan.

But although Moinian showed up early, he didn’t start leasing at the site until January 2013. (Some of that delay was likely due to the financial crisis, which brought development citywide to a halt.)

That’s when he tapped Avison Young’s Arthur Mirante — an industry veteran and former CEO of Cushman & Wakefield — to lease what was then planned as a 65-story, 1,000-foot, 1.8 million-square-foot tower. But the Toronto-based Avison was a relative newcomer to New York and it had never handled such a large project.

The fact that Moinian did not bring on one of the city’s premier firms like Cushman, CBRE, Newmark Knight Frank or JLL was an early sign of struggle at 3 Hudson Boulevard, sources said.

But perhaps the biggest thorn in Moinian’s side is the perception that he’s not a serious office developer.

Moinian has bought office buildings in the past, but they’ve largely been Class B properties. For example, he owns 500-512 Seventh Avenue with the Chetrit Group and Edward J. Minskoff Equities; 245 Fifth Avenue with Thor Equities; and 535 Fifth Avenue, 450-460 Park Avenue South and 60 and 72 Madison Avenue.

Unlike his competitors on the Far West Side, Moinian has not developed a large-scale, ground-up office project for a giant Class A tenant.

“Joe is an entrepreneurial guy. He’s not an institutional developer,” said one leasing source who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “Tenants want to go to someone they know will get the building built.”

And it hasn’t helped that there have been other setbacks at the project, including when the developer missed the deadline to apply for a city tax abatement in 2016 because he didn’t have an anchor tenant. Moinian will have to reapply.

Also, until this past fall, he had not fully ruled out constructing 3 Hudson Boulevard as a mixed-use project with residential units on top — a fact sources said could have turned off large office tenants looking for a corporate headquarters.

“If you’re the decision maker for the prospective tenant, and you’ve got all these people looking over your shoulder, you may go to an established office developer instead of Moinian,” another source said. “It’s like when everyone bought IBM computers because they knew they couldn’t get fired that way.”





Back to the drawing board

Moinian’s aggressive push to reboot the project has been on full display since August.

After firing Avison Young, the developer selected a leasing team at JLL led by Peter Riguardi, the president of the brokerage’s tri-state office, who sources said will likely hand the job off to his ace brokers Mitchell Konsker and Paul Glickman. Moinian also scrapped the residential component of the project and, in November, scaled back the height to 940 feet and 53 stories.

Sources say architect FXFOWLE’s new redesign also has wider floor plates to appeal to office tenants.

With all of those changes in place, Moinian held a press conference on a balmy November day to break ground on the firm’s “crown jewel.” While Gov. Andrew Cuomo attended — and praised Moinian for his “phenomenal accomplishment” and “phenomenal legacy” — tenant and bank representatives were noticeably absent.

But the developer — who immigrated to the U.S. from Iran when he was 17 and started a successful women’s apparel company before getting into real estate in 1982 — is now trying to drum up equity. This January, Moinian, who put $100 million of company money into the project, is planning to launch his search for a massive $3 billion in financing. The JLL team handling that search — Aaron Appel, Kellogg Gaines and Jonathan Schwartz — declined to comment.

While securing that kind of package is a tall task for a building being constructed on spec, if the team secures it, it would be one of the biggest debt-equity deals that New York City has seen this market cycle. The developer is said to be targeting roughly $1.8 billion in debt and $1.2 billion in equity, the latter of which could come from a tenant buying a commercial condo in the building, an equity partner, or a combination of both. “The $1.2 billion in equity will probably come from a hedge fund or a REIT like SL Green or a firm that is capable of loan-to-owning,” Stein said.

But Moinian’s stance on the tower’s finances have flip-flopped, creating uncertainty that sources say may not sit well with lenders or tenants.

Before TRD broke the news that Moinian was going into the market for $3 billion, for example, the developer had pegged the tower’s cost at closer to $2 billion.

In addition, at the groundbreaking, he said he was also seeking $500 million in EB-5 funding. But sources said that might prove to be unnecessary.

Greg Kraut, managing partner at K Property Group and formerly the founding principal of Avison Young, said uncertainty on development strategy never bodes well with potential partners. “At that size, the lender has to be your partner and believe in your underwriting and overall business plan,” he said. “At a certain number, it will get completed. It all depends on the valuation.”




Phoning a friend

Bringing on a large institutional equity partner with experience developing office buildings could be a game changer for Moinian, sources said.

Sources mentioned Boston Properties, Vornado Realty Trust and SL Green Realty as the kinds of companies that would help with a jump start.

SL Green, they said, seems like an especially likely candidate given that it’s partnered with Moinian in the past.

The Marc Holliday-led REIT rescued Moinian at 3 Columbus Circle — the only NYC office property he’s developed — back in 2010. The lender, Deutsche Bank, sued Moinian to foreclose, alleging that the developer had defaulted on $250 million in loans at the 26-story property.

But in an ugly back-and-forth, Moinian countersued Deutsche and Related, which co-owned the debt, claiming that the duo wouldn’t let him sign new tenants and that they had unjustly demanded a $54 million prepayment penalty.

SL Green’s $138 million equity investment saved Moinian. And the two went on to develop the 71-story rental tower Sky, which opened last year. The firms landed a $550 million refinancing in August — the largest-ever tax-exempt financing of a single building issued by the government-sponsored entity Freddie Mac.

But the rift with Related has now come full circle as Moinian goes head-to-head with the firm in Hudson Yards.

To be sure, Moinian is no lightweight. His firm currently has a 20 million-square-foot portfolio and, with partners, sold the former Sears Tower in Chicago for $1.3 billion to Blackstone Group in 2015.

Moinian — who is known as a hard-nosed negotiator — also has a long history with many prominent lenders on both his residential and office properties, including AIG Global Real Estate, Bank of America and Bank of China.

In addition, in February 2017, his firm launched its own lending division and in November, it secured a $104 million construction loan for its 165-unit rental project in Hell’s Kitchen. And the developer recently filed plans to build a religious center for the Persian community, of which he’s a prominent member, in Brooklyn’s Midwood.

Moinian also has a long list of major residential and hotel projects under its belt. In addition to Sky and the other above-mentioned projects, it’s completed the W New York Downtown hotel and the Atelier.

But an office tower is a different beast. Whether Moinian can pull off a Class A building on his own is up for debate.

“It’s all very circular,” said Dustin Stolly, co-head of Newmark’s debt and structured finance group, who is not involved in the project. “Pairing Joe with a big operator adds to the resume. Is it absolutely necessary? I don’t know.”




Anchor tenants in play

It’s been a strong year for the office leasing market — and a banner year for the Far West Side.

Tenants inked 2.2 million square feet on the Far West Side in the first three quarters, up from shy of 1 million during all of 2016, according to JLL.

And there are still potential anchor tenants in play.

Deutsche Bank, which last year expressed interest in Larry Silverstein’s 2 World Trade Center, is one, as is Morgan Stanley. But sources said the latter bank is closing in on Brookfield’s mammoth Manhattan West, where the REIT still needs an anchor for its 2 Manhattan West.

And the competition is fierce given all of the new inventory. Brookfield has several thousand square feet left at 1 Manhattan West. Related has about 2 million square feet at 50 Hudson Yards, where BlackRock signed on for 850,000 square feet in 2017. And Tishman Speyer will have 2 million-plus square feet left at the Spiral after Pfizer finalizes its deal for 800,000 square feet in early 2018.

But while Moinian is facing an uphill battle, his site does have some notable pluses.

Its front door will be just a few steps away from one of the entrances to the 7 train subway station. The building’s design allows for light and air to penetrate on all four sides. And it’s in the right neighborhood.

“It’s hard to find big blocks of space anywhere in Manhattan,” said Matt Kopsky, a REIT analyst at the financial service firm Edward Jones. “It’s not just the newness [of the building]. It’s about having a big enough block of space that’s attractive to tenants.”

Moinian now faces the “chicken or the egg” dilemma of searching for the tenant, partner and loan in the right order, Newmark’s Stolly said.

“It’s critical he identifies an equity partner with deep pockets who can be a backstop and showcase the project to prospective tenants,” Stolly said.

The order Moinian tackles each step could also determine whether he’s successful — or if he fails.

“He could get a partner to join him, but it won’t be close to a billion dollars unless he has some interest from tenants,” a source said.

At the same time, Moinian has pulled himself out of tricky situations before, and sources say he should not be underestimated.

“It’s a risk, but Joe’s an ambitious and extremely capable guy,” said Woody Heller, vice chairman and co-head of Savills Studley’s capital markets group.

The fact that the firm got into the site more than a decade ago at such a low basis gives it major breathing room.

And sources said Moinian is bound to land his first tenant sooner rather than later.

“It’s certainly more difficult to go forward fully on spec, but in time he’ll find a tenant,” Heller said.

“After all, Hudson Yards is the most successful submarket in the city,” he added. “So it’s really just a question of how much equity will be required.”



https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/hudson-yards-tenants-large.jpg

[NYguy]

https://therealdeal.com/2018/02/07/moinian-to-raise-350m-in-eb5-for-3-hudson-boulevard/

Moinian Group to raise upwards of $350M in EB-5 funding for 3 Hudson Boulevard
Developer reaches deal with immigration center


February 07, 2018


The developer has yet to land a construction loan and is looking for a debt and equity package of up to $3 billion to pay for the tower. Moinian in November tapped JLL to lock down the financing, with a capital stack featuring $1.8 billion in debt and $1.2 billion in equity.

Bloomberg first reported in November that Moinian considered raising up to $500 million in EB-5 capital.

[chris08876]

I hope they can raise the funds. This design is quite nice. Would be nice to see it rise, just as HY Phase I starts to finish up.

[JMKeynes]

As per the laws of quantum mechanics, anything is possible. However, I highly doubt that this tower will rise. Moinian isn't getting a 700k SF commitment any time soon. This site will eventually be sold to Related.

[Prezrezc]

I knew there was something rather off-putting about this guy (Moinian).

Be that the case, I hope Related has already started to get their lil' duckies in a row (i.e. scoring an architect of record etc.).

A parcel with a gaping hole already dug into it needs hella quick filling up, especially in the hottest real estate spot in the country.

[WhatTheHeck5205]

As per the laws of quantum mechanics, anything is possible. However, I highly doubt that this tower will rise. Moinian isn't getting a 700k SF commitment any time soon. This site will eventually be sold to Related.

I sincerely hope you’re right, because the current design for this tower may be the blandest, bulkiest, ugliest thing proposed in NYC since the XYZ Buildings, and on a much more visually prominent site—which will remain so due to the Javits Center and will block out the Spiral on the skyline. Hopefully, Related or whoever buys it will either bring back the previous “torqued” design, or propose something different for the site entirely. Honestly, I would rather not see a tower on this site at all than see the current design get built.

[NYguy]

https://www.law360.com/articles/1010621/moinian-snags-up-to-350m-in-eb-5-funding-for-nyc-tower

Moinian Snags Up To $350M In EB-5 Funding For NYC Tower


By Matthew Guarnaccia
February 8, 2018


The Moinian Group said Thursday it will receive as much as $350 million in EB-5 capital for its massive mixed-use retail and office tower in Manhattan as part of the New York developer’s plan to fund the $2 billion construction project.

Moinian selected George Washington Immigration Group LLC as its EB-5 regional center, saying the firm will provide between $250 million and $350 million in funding for the project, known as 3 Hudson Boulevard.

[chris08876]

This is good news. Every bit helps. Even if its 15-20%.

[NYguy]

http://www.globest.com/sites/betsykim/2018/02/09/moinian-selects-region-center-for-3-hudson-boulevard-eb-5-funding/?slreturn=20180109105622

Moinian Selects Regional Center For 3 Hudson Boulevard EB-5 Funding

FEBRUARY 9, 2018
BY BETSY KIM


Construction of 3 Hudson Boulevard began in 2017 and has a scheduled completed date of 2021.

The total cost is more than $2 billion, and will be funded through Moinian Group equity and EB-5 participants.

Architect Dan Kaplan of FXFOWLE designed the tower, which takes up an entire square block between 11th Avenue and Hudson Boulevard Park from West 34th Street to West 35th Street. He has maintained the building’s foundation sits on the densest bedrock in Manhattan, so requires no platform.

[Prezrezc]

At any rate, given the overwhelmingly reliable premise that renders--which in this case gives an even less faithful representation of the tower given only one or two profiles from roughly the same prespective--don't do justice to the finished product, we could be pleasantly surprised.

Besides, 940' at its projected girth is still a whopper: Imagine a fattie almost halfway between the heights of 220CPS and 150 Greenwich.

[NYguy]

Besides, 940' at its projected girth is still a whopper: Imagine a fattie almost halfway between the heights of 220CPS and 150 Greenwich.

It's a large tower for sure, but that may be the problem. The girth will join the girth of it's neighbors. It could be like the skyline killing towers on lower Manhattan's waterfront, only on a larger scale. We'll just have to see how well 30 Hudson pulls it off.

[WhatTheHeck5205]

I cannot believe the height-equals-design mentality and blind support of every project that exists among some people on this forum. This thing is infinitely worse than 55 Water and its neighbors, which at least have some slight variations in color and facade treatment. This thing is as plain as possible, not because minimalism is in vogue as it was with the midcentury towers, but because it is cheap. This has to be one of the most egregious cases of design being watered down for the sake of money in the history of American architecture, and if it is constructed as it is currently proposed it will become known worldwide as “the tower that destroyed the Manhattan skyline.” This tower is the architectural equivalent of Gale Brewer, and how any of you can look forward to its construction is beyond me.

[JMKeynes]

This won't get a construction loan without an anchor tenant of at least 700k SF, and no such tenants are lining up at Moinian's doorstep.

Related will build something here in the next cycle.