NEW YORK | 3 Hudson Blvd (The Girasole) | 987 FT | 56 FLOORS | ON HOLD [Archive] - Page 7

NYguy

May 12, 2016, 3:30 AM

I don't know, but you know Moinian is feeling pretty confident. And I don't see why he shouldn't. The speed of success in Related's towers has surprised even them. This is why I would prefer if the developers who are thinking residential on the blocks north would hold off, even if for a few more years. The office market is coming. But if everything is built out, there will be nowhere for it to come to.

http://ny.curbed.com/2016/5/11/11658674/hudson-yards-moinian-supertall-office-building-construction-update

Moinian's Hudson Yards Supertall Is Finally Moving Forward

BY TANAY WARERKAR
MAY 11, 2016

Construction is now underway on the Moinian Group's Hudson Yards supertall known as 3 Hudson Boulevard. The 66-story building will bring just under 2 million square feet of office space the neighborhood when it is complete sometime towards the end of next year.

The development firm hasn't yet secured an anchor tenant for the building, according to Bloomberg. The head of the firm, Joseph Moinian, has already committed $100 million to laying the foundation of the building, and told Bloomberg that he is confidant the building will have a main tenant once the structure is above the ground.

http://www.costar.com/News/Article/Moinian-Group-to-Begin-Foundation-Work-On-3-Hudson-Tower/182044

Foundation work at the site is anticipated to be completed by late 2017. Moinian said a portion of 3 Hudson Boulevard’s foundation is already being built as part of the MTA’s infrastructure work for the second entrance to the 34th Street Station on its No. 7 subway extension.

The North One

May 13, 2016, 5:46 PM

I always loved this building, I'm so glad it's finally being realized. :cheers:

ILNY

May 14, 2016, 3:13 PM

^ Same here, nice design but hold on with your excitement for now.

http://ny.curbed.com/2016/5/13/11668074/hudson-yards-moinian-supertall-tax-benefits-jeapordy

Moinian's Hudson Yards Supertall May Already Be In Trouble

By Tanay Warerkar
May 13, 2016, 9:15a

Just a day after it was revealed that construction was underway on the Moinian Group's massive Hudson Yards office building, the project might already be facing some trouble. The development firm needs to reapply for $65 million in tax benefits after failing to acquire the requisite construction loans and an anchor tenant, The Real Deal reports.

Joseph Moinian, the head of the development firm, had secured close to $65 million in tax benefits from the New York City Industrial Development Agency (IDA) on the grounds that the development team would secure a full construction loan and an anchor tenant exactly one year from February 10, 2015.

Having failed to meet the deadline, the Moinian Group now has to reapply for the benefits with the IDA, but it remains to be seen whether the agency will provide the tax exemption without an anchor tenant or secure financing.

chris08876

May 14, 2016, 3:15 PM

This is just curbed exaggerating or reading to much into the Real Deal article. A simple tax benefit will not stop this tower in its track. Foundation work is occurring, Moinian is close to getting a tenant (confident hence foundation work), and this will all resolve along with getting the full financing once they get a tenant. More of an administrative issue if anything.

For now this is a small tentative issue which will be resolved.

mrnyc

May 15, 2016, 2:49 PM

no action this morning, but the staging is everywhere

you have to put the camera over the fence for blind shots,
they have the site wrapped up tight lol :cheers:

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/6D1B7FDF-97AA-4413-8B4B-1FD1DE7ADFBD_zps2ihrbo6x.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/6D1B7FDF-97AA-4413-8B4B-1FD1DE7ADFBD_zps2ihrbo6x.jpg.html)

NYguy

May 18, 2016, 5:03 AM

http://urbanismvsmodernism.blogspot.com/

BRANDON NAGLE

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-B58YKsIM40k/VzqtQ9O53YI/AAAAAAAARBM/MMP4DnQkZa4n-7Wvp9s_AchjYYPTtADDwCLcB/s1600/DSCN0618.JPG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0i8uhNjIqqU/VzqtQ9tYTJI/AAAAAAAARBI/5fWLKB_MuCYYXzXqBn9tZspAXZ0RP9yJACLcB/s1600/DSCN0617.JPG

NYguy

May 25, 2016, 4:36 AM

MAY 24, 2016

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/163301450/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/163301451/original.jpg

sparkling

Jun 14, 2016, 1:42 PM

Moinian Says 3 Hudson Boulevard Still On Track

http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/3-hudson-boulevard-screenshot-777x435.png

EVAN BINDELGLASS
JUNE 14, 2016
We’ve reported a lot on Related/Oxford’s Hudson Yards mega-development and the neighboring Manhattan West, from Brookfield. There are also plenty of independent projects in the greater Hudson Yards District. One of those is the supertall office building dubbed 3 Hudson Boulevard and, despite reports of trouble, the developer, Moinian Group, assures YIMBY that it is still a go.

Last year, Moinian secured a tax exemption for the project from the New York City Industrial Development Agency, in which they agreed to make certain payments in place of property taxes. However, that agreement gave Moinian one year to secure financing for the estimated $2 billion tower. That year has expired.

They still haven’t secured financing, nor have they secured an anchor tenant. However, they are confident that that they will get all of their ducks in a row and re-apply for the benefit. In fact, foundation work began in May.

Continue Reading (http://www.yimbynews.com/2016/06/moinian-says-3-hudson-boulevard-still-on-track.html)

ILNY

Jul 18, 2016, 1:24 AM

I did not see any foundation work starting yet. They need to clear the area and start excavation first. The tower will be west (green roof) to the subway entrance currently under construction. (foreground)

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8425/27761370914_a5e7902c7c_h.jpg

chris08876

Aug 5, 2016, 1:03 AM

https://cdn-standard.discourse.org/uploads/yimby/optimized/2X/5/5b8b067600f78f8149a2d5c4032d4380679aa9eb_1_666x500.jpg
Credit: Walpole (http://www.yimbyforums.com/t/new-york-3-hudson-blvd-555-w-34th-1-050-ft-66-floors/199/72?u=chris08876)

TechTalkGuy

Aug 5, 2016, 7:11 AM

No financing or lead tenant, yet still on track.

Gotcha! :rolleyes:

chris08876

Aug 5, 2016, 9:47 AM

No financing or lead tenant, yet still on track.

Gotcha! :rolleyes:

They are in talks. This is a risk that they have calculated to work in their favor. You have companies that desire space. Blackstone being one. Tech companies like Facebook and fashion companies as well. They will get a tenant. This tower isn't WTC2 with its high projected $/sq-ft. HY is competitive in terms of pricing, and companies are choosing it as the place to be.

Don't forget:

Moinian has been in talks with at least three possible anchor tenants, one of whom could take up to one million s/f, Avison Young’s Arthur Mirante, who is leading the leasing efforts at 3 Hudson Boulevard, told Bloomberg News.

NYguy

Aug 30, 2016, 5:27 PM

http://www.interiordesign.net/articles/12274-10-questions-with-dan-kaplan-of-fxfowle/

10 Questions with... Dan Kaplan of FXFOWLE

August 30, 2016
By Jennifer Nalewicki

ID: You're currently working on a 66-story tower in NYC called 3 Hudson Boulevard. Are there any challenges to applying your sustainable philosophy to this and other skyscrapers you've worked on?

DK: I think skyscrapers and high rises in general are some of the most sustainable building types because with a minimal land footprint you can create the highest amount of habitable space. It also sits on top of the new 7-train subway station at Hudson Yards. For a 1.7 million square-foot building, there are only about 50 parking spaces. People get to the building using mass transit, so this is a great example of a dense city using a sustainable approach. Now, having said that, the best thing to do is to make the spaces and experiences inside as connected to the natural world as possible. We crafted the building to be more about daylight, sometimes we call it a “daylight machine.” The building sits in Hudson River Park, so you arrive through the park, come into a light-filled space, take the escalators to the lobby, and see back out onto the Hudson River.

It’s very important to me that we designed the building so that it doesn’t get darker the deeper you get, but instead you see daylight and greenery as soon as possible. The tower contains numerous terraces and balconies. Also, we used oversize glass and [each floor has] 360-degree exposures, so the idea is to give ample light and views while having the ability to be on the 30th floor, go outside, and take a breath of fresh air—it’s a great thing.

ID: I've noticed that skyscrapers are getting skinnier than ever. Do you think this is just a passing fad or something that is here to stay?

DK: What you’re seeing are generally residential towers, and it’s a relatively new phenomenon. [In Manhattan] it has to do with zoning and municipal control, and was conceived around the idea of large floor-plan commercial buildings. What’s happened over the past 10 years is that people are realizing the value of heightened residential buildings in certain markets justifies the expense of building tall and thin. Some of these needle towers have floor plans that are about 5,000 square feet. FXFOWLE did Sky House and the floor plan was about 4,000 square feet, whereas a typical tower is maybe three times that much. I think in dense places like Manhattan, Brooklyn, and San Francisco, where land value is high, the idea of building tall and thin is catching on. Another trend you’re going to see is building tall and big, because we do have limited land resources in these cities and we want them to be dense, and it’s generally more effective to build more floor area on a given site.

TechTalkGuy

Aug 30, 2016, 6:36 PM

Speaking of tall and thin, when a developer takes ownership of the land, long before construction begins, leading towards construction followed by the topping out ceremony and culminated by the opening of it's doors, when does the city collect appropriate tax revenue?

chris08876

Sep 18, 2016, 12:14 PM

https://cdn-standard.discourse.org/uploads/yimby/optimized/2X/2/24ab967b7d2a74668e5720f36bce75afa55bac42_1_666x500.jpeg
Credit: JC_Heights (http://www.yimbyforums.com/t/new-york-3-hudson-blvd-555-w-34th-1-050-ft-66-floors/199/89?u=chris08876)

NYguy

Oct 26, 2016, 12:09 AM

http://nypost.com/2016/10/24/hudson-yards-is-getting-a-1m-square-foot-addition/

By Steve Cuozzo
October 24, 2016

Moinian Group founder Joseph Moinian’s planned 3 Hudson Boulevard tower is building a foundation that won’t be finished for another year. He insisted the site is “absolutely not for sale” when we asked him. It’s fully entitled for nearly 2 million square feet of floor area and stands to benefit from a $65 million city tax exemption that can be passed on to tenants.

“But we get offers all the time,” Moinian laughed. However, although he said the tower would be less expensive to tenants than Related’s or Brookfield’s, he declined to say by how much. Neither Himmel nor Kanner would share rents or purchase prices, either.

ILNY

Oct 28, 2016, 4:20 AM

Subway entrance is almost done but work on the tower did not start yet.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5560/30494836192_236c2ea9dd_o.jpg

NYguy

Oct 28, 2016, 4:59 PM

If they say they are workibg on the fiundation, I'll take their word for it, especially with no way of going down there to see what's going on. Bot the foundation of this tower and 55 Hudson have foundations that are integrated into the subway station.

chris08876

Oct 29, 2016, 1:07 PM

We'll have to wait a bit. Foundation work for a year. :(

NYguy

Nov 30, 2016, 8:21 PM

https://commercialobserver.com/2016/11/manhattans-biggest-ambitious-projects-that-are-waiting-for-the-right-moment/

3 Hudson Boulevard
Size: 1.8 million square feet
Developer: The Moinian Group

Developer Joseph Moinian was one of the first real estate moguls to plant his flag on 11th Avenue when it was still an area of low repute. But his 3 Hudson Boulevard at 11th Avenue and West 34th Street is slow to take shape.

The 1.8-million-square-foot tower has been under development for some time now as rival towers by Related Companies and Brookfield Property Partners start taking shape. While the building is slated to feature retail and office space, there is the possibility that upper floors could also become luxury residential units.

In May, The Moinian Group started on about $100 million worth of foundation work at the site despite not securing an anchor tenant.

Bloomberg reported in May that the overall cost of the project is slated to be $2 billion.

Moinian told the news service that he was sure a tenant would soon commit to the property, thus allowing it to move forward with financing and the rest of construction.

But the fact that it hasn’t been built yet is its strongest point, said Arthur Mirante, the president of Avison Young’s tri-state region and who is marketing the property.

Because structural work has yet to begin on the project, floor plates can be adjusted and ceilings at the base of the building can be increased based on what an anchor tenant might want, including more outdoor space.

Mirante added that the developer was open to doing joint ventures on the project, including finding partners who would take office space in the property. Residential luxury units are also still on the table.

“We can still tinker with our design,” he said. “Not only do we have flexibility still from a design point of view, but we have financial flexibility.”

gramsjdg

Dec 1, 2016, 1:44 AM

2 billion seems a bit steep. Burj Dubai was 2 billion as well (I know that the workers there got paid next to nothing, but still...)

Of course 1WTC was 4 billion, but that's a special case...:uhh:

chris08876

Dec 1, 2016, 2:40 AM

2 billion seems a bit steep. Burj Dubai was 2 billion as well (I know that the workers there got paid next to nothing, but still...)

Of course 1WTC was 4 billion, but that's a special case...:uhh:

We can sum the cost of a tower based on soft vs hard costs. Pre planning, design, land purchases, assemblages, and so on can often add a significant amount to the total cost, even if they are soft costs. It's not necessary the construction that is super expensive and a huge % of the total amount. Land often has a huge cost, especially in NYC. Kinda why you will see the same height, and sq-ft tower rise in Queens, yet seem 1/4 the price. Also factor in the engineering and materials. With the Burj price, that same tower, in Midtown, would be much much more expensive. Also the Burj is an engineering marvel. Kinda like the Kingdom tower which has a foundation that is 30 stories deep. Lastly, contractors, billing rates, and pricing for materials can vary. More a byproduct of soft costs. Shitty negotiations may yield overall higher costs over "X" years or months.

artspook

Dec 3, 2016, 7:19 AM

". . Kingdom tower which has a foundation that is 30 stories deep." - Chris

soaring above ground too . .
OMG . . a bolt into the sky . . magnificently beautiful, . .
just giving impressive modern skyscraper design credit . .
where authentic credit its due . .
it's the 21st century standard . .

artspook

Dec 3, 2016, 7:57 AM

3 Hudson Blvd. is not the rigorous tour de force . .
promised in the phony renderings . .
angles wildly exaggerated for marketing purposes . .
architectural renderings are like campaign promises . .
Ya gotta see through them, people . .
compare renderings to diagrams . .
this is a very hollow attempt at dynamism . .
The form of this slightly off plumb box . .
is but a very small design gimmick, . . to keep it cheap . .
I like design . . there's not much here . .

chris08876

Dec 3, 2016, 5:03 PM

2 billion seems a bit steep. Burj Dubai was 2 billion as well (I know that the workers there got paid next to nothing, but still...)

Of course 1WTC was 4 billion, but that's a special case...:uhh:

As a supplement to post #624, read this: http://therealdeal.com/2014/11/26/ziel-feldmans-hfz-in-contract-to-buy-huge-w-chelsea-site/

While its 400/300 foot tower(s), the cost of just the parcel was 800 million. One of those cases were the land and soft costs > hard costs. In other words, its cheaper to build two mid sized skyscrapers than it is to buy the land.

Relatively speaking, 3 Hudson is cheap in terms of the land that it sits on.

ILNY

Dec 13, 2016, 5:02 AM

https://c5.staticflickr.com/1/745/31239629500_de486fbb05_o.jpg

https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/589/31239628590_5c4b276531_o.jpg

https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/259/30770890314_a729b8f8c5_o.jpg

NYguy

Dec 13, 2016, 2:56 PM

^ Good work.

ILNY

Dec 14, 2016, 4:59 AM

^ Good work.

Thank you NYguy.

chris08876

Jan 17, 2017, 12:50 AM

https://cdn-standard.discourse.org/uploads/yimby/original/2X/1/1a51531575f7c8f53d4726932b08eb05b0669b97.jpeg
Credit: JC_Heights (http://www.yimbyforums.com/t/new-york-3-hudson-blvd-555-w-34th-1-050-ft-66-floors/199/115?u=chris08876)

Zerton

Jan 18, 2017, 6:12 PM

I can't believe its been 10 years since this was announced.

mrnyc

Jan 22, 2017, 10:58 PM

from this past friday 1/20/17 after work --

i stood on the hudson park chairs to look in -- as i would imagine everyone does --

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/E7EA3756-A6A5-484E-843E-E2787330F083_zpshelajz3r.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/E7EA3756-A6A5-484E-843E-E2787330F083_zpshelajz3r.jpg.html)

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/2057D852-26F2-45A5-8DB1-3516CC0C78F6_zpsh1jdsfvt.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/2057D852-26F2-45A5-8DB1-3516CC0C78F6_zpsh1jdsfvt.jpg.html)

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/D626FEC9-CFAC-4B25-B25F-1472903AECC9_zps2zryvjlb.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/D626FEC9-CFAC-4B25-B25F-1472903AECC9_zps2zryvjlb.jpg.html)

the other 7 train subway entrance nearby sits forlorn for now --

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/21D819B9-50EE-4B75-A453-1CCE997B173B_zpsiyhql2wm.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/21D819B9-50EE-4B75-A453-1CCE997B173B_zpsiyhql2wm.jpg.html)

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/19FAE152-3A94-4AE5-8B38-BF744D4B1E0A_zpsvsd33gzs.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/19FAE152-3A94-4AE5-8B38-BF744D4B1E0A_zpsvsd33gzs.jpg.html)

hotwheels

Jan 27, 2017, 7:39 PM

Excavation Underway at 3 Hudson Boulevard in Manhattan
(http://skyrisecities.com/news/2017/01/excavation-underway-3-hudson-boulevard-manhattan)Soon to become part of the rapidly rising Hudson Yards neighbourhood on the western edge of Midtown Manhattan, 3 Hudson Boulevard at the corner of 34th Street and 11th Avenue will eventually rise to 315 metres. The supertall, mixed-use, 66-storey tower will house a mixture of office and residential space across its 1.8 million square feet. Designed by FXFOWLE for the Moinian Group, 3 Hudson Boulevard will rise above the recently completed 34th Street-Hudson Yards Subway Station that was primarily built to serve the new Hudson Yards neighbourhood.

ILNY

Feb 28, 2017, 5:19 AM

Foundation work is finally visible. It should be rising soon.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3767/33005886422_7b0bae63d0_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/713/33162223045_e7d70fb2f8_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/668/33120805476_7ca4a24c11_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/779/32317027094_e5d38dbfa2_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2864/32317026674_2ddd32f66f_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/575/32779495130_f489e79ef0_o.jpg

citybooster

Feb 28, 2017, 8:13 AM

So the upper floors definitely are going with a residential component? How much office/retail vs residential are they doing? Going to be a really nice addition... kinda conservative but the angling is going to be a nice twist keeping it from going boxy and ordinary. The top also will look nice.. prefer this to the gimmickry of the Spiral..till shaking my head at the boldness that could have gone there with the Hudson Spire original vision sacrificed to this result.

Skyguy_7

Feb 28, 2017, 1:08 PM

Foundation work is finally visible. It should be rising soon.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/713/33162223045_e7d70fb2f8_o.jpg

How is this mess ever going to be the base of a 1,000-foot tower? Only in New York, man.... :worship:

chris08876

Mar 18, 2017, 2:00 PM

How is this mess ever going to be the base of a 1,000-foot tower? Only in New York, man.... :worship:

This will be the most noticeable super tall node in the city. It's a great time to be saying a noticeable super tall node, because if you add the "S" to "node", it holds true. Lots of super tall clusters. This area went from crappy, to amazing. The final frontier in Manhattan to be developed, and they are going bananas.

Around the area, still a lot of parcels to be picked up. Propagating the neighborhood to be a flower bed for future supertalls. Just sprinkle some money/tenants and watch them grow.

BrownTown

Mar 18, 2017, 2:50 PM

Around the area, still a lot of parcels to be picked up. Propagating the neighborhood to be a flower bed for future supertalls. Just sprinkle some money/tenants and watch them grow.
Interest rates are rising again so the fuel for all these towers is getting cut off. I doubt we'll see a big push for more skyscrapers if the Fed keeps on its current course. As for the second question of tenant, how many more can there be out there who can afford these sorts of rents?

chris08876

Mar 18, 2017, 3:21 PM

Long term is the key. I don't expect super talls to rise like bamboo overnight, but the West Side given the land prices will see developments on average utilize the land to its utmost potential.

Manhattan as a whole will see this as well so in terms of height, expect the average for the borough to climb upwards. If I recall, the average is somewhere around 315-330 ft. Overtime, I could see this climb to 400 ft. Granted super talls and towers in the range of 700-900 ft skew the average, but the trend has been for the last 5 years in every borough to be an increase in height.

Even in Brooklyn, we are seeing your typical structure in the pipeline around 14/15 floors. An increase over the typical 12 floor structure that is usually proposed.

Now in terms of tenants, I could speculate that most new towers will not be seeing the big dogs. The ones who seek over 1 mil sq ft, but smaller tenants allocating from older, 60's stock office space to modern, class A space builds after 2016. Get enough of those, and a tower is viable and will move from soft to hard cost stage.

The North One

Apr 16, 2017, 2:09 AM

It's been 10 years since this tower was proposed...

Damn.

Eidolon

Apr 16, 2017, 3:07 AM

^^^
This tower would have been completed years ago if there was no great recession, it has been through three presidential administrations, a name change, foreclosure (I believe) and so many different stacking options it would make your head spin(from entirely office, to largely residential and finally to mixed use), but the fact that it hasn't been cancelled speaks of the vitality of the Manhattan real estate market and the fundamental strengths of the site.

A bunch of other towers like the MSG twin towers and WPC died completely, while others like this one, the Manhattan West twins are only just getting properly started. At least this one isn't trapped in purgatory like 15 Penn or 2 WTC, neither one is going to be done before 2025 at this rate...

The rules that I follow when it comes to NYC development are easy to remember and guarantee that any tall building fan won't be dissapointed if they remember them;

1. Be optimistic about the quantity of proposals, they will exceed anyone's wildest imaginations.
2. The timetables proposed by developers are always total BS and have almost no reflection on reality because they tend to be off by several years at least, especially if they announce a project early.

TechTalkGuy

Apr 16, 2017, 9:46 AM

^^^
This tower would have been completed years ago if there was no great recession.........

The rules that I follow when it comes to NYC development are easy to remember and guarantee that any tall building fan won't be dissapointed if they remember them;

1. Be optimistic about the quantity of proposals, they will exceed anyone's wildest imaginations.
2. The timetables proposed by developers are always total BS and have almost no reflection on reality because they tend to be off by several years at least, especially if they announce a project early.

The timetables are BS because of the regulations and other regulatory nonsense that delay important and timely things such as financing, approvals and so forth.

We don't need no height limits either.
All that nonsense about air rights in a big city should be tossed out the window.
If you own the land, you own the air above your land. :rolleyes:

chris08876

Apr 16, 2017, 11:36 AM

^^^^

Air rights should go. It's a fabrication. A way to control density that quite frankly doesn't help the supply issue.

The cake is a lie!!!

https://d3eum8lucccgeh.cloudfront.net/designs/36451/CakeART.jpg

3 Hudson is happening. Just got to be patient.

Spocket

Apr 16, 2017, 6:38 PM

^^^^

Air rights should go. It's a fabrication. A way to control density that quite frankly doesn't help the supply issue.

Okay, what happens when your neighbor decides to build something over your property?

TechTalkGuy

Apr 16, 2017, 7:57 PM

Okay, what happens when your neighbor decides to build something over your property?

Show me a skyscraper that crosses directly over another tower, please! :sly:
Getting back to the Girasole, I can't believe it's finally under construction!

chris08876

Apr 17, 2017, 10:06 PM

Spire??? Taller????

=======================

https://cdn-standard.discourse.org/uploads/yimby/original/2X/3/38d043a2c724f418d1e5aaa1aa41b298e0d20bde.jpg
Credit: fxfowle (http://www.fxfowle.com/projects/51/3%20Hudson%20Boulevard/)

3 Hudson Boulevard is a 66-story tower that will set new standards for urban developments. Sited on Manhattan's West Side in Hudson Yards, the tower's twisting and tapered form transitions from the urban grid to capture optimal solar orientation, allowing arrays of photovoltaic sunscreens integrated into portions of its all-glass curtain wall façade to generate over 800,000 kWh of power per year. With a five-story podium and retail at street level, the tower features Class A office space, terraces, and views of the Hudson River, Hudson River Park, and the High Line. The tower is crowned by a rooftop club and skygarden planted with mature trees and sheltered by glass windscreens.

LOCATION

New York, NY

CLIENT

The Moinian Group

COMPLETION

2021

AREA
1,800,000 GSF / 170,000 GSM

CERTIFICATE

LEED Platinum Anticipated

NYguy

Apr 17, 2017, 11:31 PM

Maybe that render is just to spice it up a bit? We still dont have the full filing for the DOB. Whats there now is still the stump.

Crawford

Apr 18, 2017, 12:29 PM

I think the tower looks better with the spire. Has a more distinctive presence.

chris08876

Apr 18, 2017, 12:34 PM

It works IMO. Just the right amount of bulk to it. Its not pencil think like NY Times Tower and its length complements the whole tower. One of those cases where a spire adds to it. Similar to Bank of America.

jayden

Apr 18, 2017, 2:44 PM

Already so many spires in that area though. BOA, NYT, Conde Naste...

I believe this would work just fine without one.

UrbanImpact

Apr 18, 2017, 4:17 PM

I'm loving that spire! I think it complements the spires in the area very well if it to be built as shown.

Zapatan

Apr 18, 2017, 4:34 PM

Already so many spires in that area though. BOA, NYT, Conde Naste...

I believe this would work just fine without one.

I agree, it's not like NYC lacks spires. More flat top supertalls would do better for they skyline I think.

Dac150

Apr 19, 2017, 12:46 AM

The spire is a nice touch considering there are none in the immediate vicinity. Given the estimated completion year, I'm sure the tower will undergo further design modifications.

NYguy

Apr 19, 2017, 12:55 PM

The spire is a nice touch considering there are none in the immediate vicinity. Given the estimated completion year, I'm sure the tower will undergo further design modifications.

The spire would be a nice addition, if the overall height of the building itself were increased. Midtown has spires, but the skyline is so massive that the other spires don't account for this part of the skyline. Its why I think the CP tower needs one. Then, when you consider all of the massive, bulky towers going up in the vicinity of this one, there's the risk of the Hudson Yards being too boxy.

That render is a redesign though, not just the adding of a spire. 55 Hudson, which is a neighboring tower of nearly 800 ft looks significantly shorter in that rendering.

De Minimis NY

Apr 19, 2017, 3:17 PM

That spire looks like a bit of an afterthought to me, although I love the other updates in the render.

Spires typically work best when a building’s crown tapers towards them (e.g., Chrysler, Empire State, Bank of America, One Vanderbilt…), or at least where there are other architectural elements protruding from the roof to frame and create a visual transition into the spire (the fins on top of NY Times Building, or the steel boxes on top of 4 Times Square).

3 Hudson’s curtain wall does extend beyond the roofline, but those extensions are at angles that feel unrelated to the spire and that don’t do much in terms of framing or transitioning. The spirit of the building lies within its twisted form (which I love), but that feature seems at odds with plopping a single massive spire down the center. I think this one would look much better with four smaller spires to emphasize the parallelogrammatic form that the tower transitions towards as it rises… something which coincidentally would be appreciated by those of us still reeling from the value engineering at 3 WTC.

(As an aside, I think that the general rules about transitioning towards a spire don’t apply when the spire extends from the side rather than the center of a building, which is why CP Tower worked so well with a spire despite the blunt transition).

NYguy

Apr 19, 2017, 3:54 PM

I agree that spires work best when the tower transitions into one. However, is tge sea of flat roofed supertalls that the Hudson Yards is becoming (30 Hudson being an exception), it would add more of that New York dynamic to the overall look of that skyline. The same thing applies to the CP tower.

I have always found this tower to be on the bulky side, now being joined by even bulkier towers like 50 Hudson and the Spiral, all with similar, flat roof heights. A spire here would shake it up a bit.

http://moinian.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/3-hudson-boulevard-06-skyline-background.jpg

https://cdn-standard.discourse.org/uploads/yimby/original/2X/3/38d043a2c724f418d1e5aaa1aa41b298e0d20bde.jpg

The North One

Apr 23, 2017, 3:01 AM

Huh? that render looks totally different, what the hell?

Multi

Apr 23, 2017, 11:28 AM

If you look closely, the spire looks like it is higher than 30 Hudson. The tip could be around 1300 feet, unless I'm looking at this wrong.

mrnyc

May 5, 2017, 6:36 AM

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/CE008500-4C23-4E11-9620-111B0066C384_zpslor0c6bl.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/CE008500-4C23-4E11-9620-111B0066C384_zpslor0c6bl.jpg.html)

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/C24C6E5C-7D49-4284-9983-79896ED29F1C_zpsbauzslsh.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/C24C6E5C-7D49-4284-9983-79896ED29F1C_zpsbauzslsh.jpg.html)

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o725/NYCnMore/nyc4/6DF28A7C-44F3-4AFE-8A3F-46E53C87525A_zps8xddqxoh.jpg (http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/NYCnMore/media/nyc4/6DF28A7C-44F3-4AFE-8A3F-46E53C87525A_zps8xddqxoh.jpg.html)

ILNY

May 22, 2017, 4:38 AM

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4157/34004083543_514ceee6b8_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4178/34650907852_7ef09297a0_o.jpg

Subway construction is almost completed.Green tent and noisy generators are gone... but so is construction equipment. I hope the tower is not on hold.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4249/34773788426_7c8b7b9d9d_o.jpg

NYguy

May 22, 2017, 1:38 PM

It's not on hold, but they aren't going to build without signing a tenant first.

ILNY

May 22, 2017, 8:18 PM

It's not on hold, but they aren't going to build without signing a tenant first.

So its on hold until they find a tenant? ;)

BrownTown

May 22, 2017, 9:26 PM

It's not on hold, but they aren't going to build without signing a tenant first.
That's what, "on hold" means..

chris08876

May 22, 2017, 10:31 PM

^^^^

Thier building the foundation as they are confident they will land a tenant. I think thats what he meant. So, foundation first, if by the completion of the foundation, they don't get a tenant, than it will be on hold unless the developer takes the risk and builds it anyway due to their optimism. But they are confident of snatching one soon.

ILNY

May 22, 2017, 10:40 PM

^^^^

Thier building the foundation as they are confident they will land a tenant.

Their are not building foundation, at least not at this time. Check my last photo, all construction equipment was removed from the site, hopefully it will come back.

Hudson11

Aug 7, 2017, 3:41 PM

height-troll confirmed. :roofvsspire:

http://www.fxfowle.com/projects/51/3-hudson-boulevard/

The tower is crowned by a 300-foot spire and a rooftop terrace sheltered by glass windscreens.

at least this should be a solid supertall minus the spire either way.

Zapatan

Aug 7, 2017, 4:36 PM

Not another spire... NY has enough of those. It doesn't work with the building too well I don't think.

Oh well :\

Crawford

Aug 7, 2017, 4:58 PM

Wait, this tower now has a 300-ft spire? It's now 1,350 ft.?

Do we have updated renderings?

NYguy

Aug 7, 2017, 5:27 PM

Not another spire... NY has enough of those. It doesn't work with the building too well I don't think.

Oh well :\

New York doesn't have enough spires. Just not enough spires in the right locations. Central Park Tower could use this 300 ft spire. This tower doesn't need it, as is. If it were designed to better incorporate the spire, then it would be more welcome, as there will be so many surrounding 1,000 ft towers, giving the area flatlined skyline.

http://m1.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/165976271.BqETPmhQ.spire.JPG

Wait, this tower now has a 300-ft spire? It's now 1,350 ft.?

Do we have updated renderings?

So far just the render that was posted earlier...

http://m2.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/165976272.94XFjIyb.spire2.JPG

http://m3.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/165976273.nPJdozCg.spire2b.JPG

viewguysf

Aug 7, 2017, 7:49 PM

Not another spire... NY has enough of those. It doesn't work with the building too well I don't think.

Oh well :\

I agree and wish they weren't officially part of height. One WTC's "spire" is the height of ugliness, though others do look very cool. This one is so much like Wilshire Grand's in LA, just there to grab a phony (though recognized) stastic.

Zapatan

Aug 7, 2017, 8:11 PM

New York doesn't have enough spires. Just not enough spires in the right locations. Central Park Tower could use this 300 ft spire. This tower doesn't need it, as is. If it were designed to better incorporate the spire, then it would be more welcome, as there will be so many surrounding 1,000 ft towers, giving the area flatlined skyline.

I'd much rather see a spire on the Central Park Tower than this one, but yea, since none of the other towers in the complex have spires it may not be *so* bad. Although it's more of the fact that it doesn't work with the building, at least I don't think it does, it's almost as tacky as if the NY Times Tower were to have an off center spire.

At the end of the day though that rooftop terrace 1000+ feet off the ground is going to be just awesome.

chris08876

Aug 7, 2017, 11:59 PM

This one pulls a spire well though. See the thing with adding one is how well its incorporated. If its added without any real plan, it can be a disaster. For a spire to work, the rest of the tower has to match it, and an effective building IMO via its design gets the eye moving from bottom to top, without a hiccup or ugh moment. Spire girth is also important along with the color. If done right, its wickedly nice.

This reminds me of BOA a bit. That tower works very well with a spire, whereas 5 Beekman (with its 4 pvc pipe spires) and NY Times (with its syringe) look like rubbish. I could go on with examples that are good. IMO, one of the best is the John Hancock. That's how you do a spire, or even the Sears tower. The gold standard with regards to spires/antennas. THe only sacrilege is that they don't really count towards the height, which on those two, is bs... because its should.

chris08876

Aug 8, 2017, 12:21 AM

Wait, this tower now has a 300-ft spire? It's now 1,350 ft.?

Yeah essentially. Tallest one in Hudson Yards. Yet at 1,350 ft, if built now along with current u/c, I'd be the 5th tallest. 6th tallest if 80 South Rises or 7th tallest if 666 5th rises.

Unless some more towers come, by 2020, it will be either in the top 5 or top 7th position.

NYguy

Aug 8, 2017, 3:42 AM

gramsjdg

Aug 8, 2017, 4:57 AM

Maybe this will push Barnett into the spire game.

That's what I'm hoping...

antinimby

Aug 8, 2017, 12:32 PM

NYguy

Aug 8, 2017, 1:58 PM

Not sure if the 300 ft is above the parapet height, but it would make the tower at least 1,300 ft or more.

http://m3.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/165983313.EfdDiR0q.d1.JPG
http://m4.i.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1/165983314.E7QcAZu7.d2.JPG

aquablue

Aug 8, 2017, 9:17 PM

With the changes in design, ironically the spire has become the best part of the building. The tower portion seems to have gotten more boring and unoriginal. Like a NY Times building knockoff gone badly.

It may be more boring now, but at least it fits in better with the complex. The old design was frankly awkward from the Hudson view and ill fitting a city like NY. Looked like a tower more suited to Dubai or Miami. By that I mean it was tacky and gimmicky. Original doesn't always mean better.

Prezrezc

Aug 8, 2017, 10:33 PM

I'm kinda disappointed in this render.

If in fact it has lost its twistiness (it's hard to say without an east-facing view), the uniqueness factor takes a hit. In fact, it *does* look right now like NYT's slouchy, off-centered big brother.

Spire or no spire, it just seems as if the architects got cold feet when tasked to make a version of the the en vogue twist motif sufficiently palatable for NYC architecture buffs.

A rendering of the tower from the "(Geological) Long Island side"...or even a "top-down/footprint/bird's-eye view" illustration might prove my observations invalid.

chris08876

Aug 8, 2017, 10:54 PM

Time for 30 Hudon to pull out a 1 Vandy type spire, pushing it to 1400 ft. (I don't think that would look right though). I still expect SHoP's design for the $3 Billion 360 10th Ave will be taller than any of them, but that's some time off.

Maybe this will push Barnett into the spire game.

I'm all for skyscraper wars. Barnett really should do what is ethically right, and make a spire on CPT to the point where its the city's tallest period. Who likes being in 2nd place anyways? :haha:

I'm sure with the current design, on CPT, it could be pulled off and look really nice. But that would be too good to be true. To see new permits filed indicating such height.

NYguy

Aug 8, 2017, 11:32 PM

It's like another, slightly larger version of BofA - still more bulky than I would like for a spired tower. It needs more taper.

ILNY

Aug 9, 2017, 1:46 AM

chris08876

Aug 9, 2017, 2:02 AM

Another 18 months? :duh
They have already been working on foundation for 18 months.

I wonder if they are slowing down foundation work as maybe they are not so confident in landing a tenant or whoever they are negotiating with, might not be certain at the time. Essentially prolonging it.

Granted its leverage in having the foundation complete, reduces time for completion and delivery to "X" tenant. They were confident at one point, but things can always change. Just speculation on my part. 18 months for a foundation sounds sketchy at best.

jayden

Aug 9, 2017, 12:49 PM

Ugh at the 300 ft spire.

NYguy

Aug 10, 2017, 3:35 PM

Another 18 months? :duh
They have already been working on foundation for 18 months.

Maybe there was only partial work on the foundation (we have seen little of it).

chris08876

Aug 17, 2017, 2:00 AM

I think it's safe to say a early 2022 completion. Maybe this will be the focal point of Phase II as it should start to see steel if not sooner around 2020-22.

TigerUSA

Aug 17, 2017, 3:39 PM

DCReid

Aug 17, 2017, 4:17 PM

Having a spire would totally damage the skyline. NYC is becoming the city of toothpicks. I wish they would cut it out. If they want to put lights on top of buildings, maybe consider putting crowns instead, like the Salesforce Tower in San Francisco. I agree, they should really remove the spires from Conde Nest and NY Times as I think both don't really do much for the NY skyline.

NYguy

Aug 17, 2017, 4:48 PM

I agree, they should really remove the spires from Conde Nest and NY Times as I think both don't really do much for the NY skyline.

The Conde Nast has an antenna that's in active use. It isn't a spire. The NY Times tower doesn't really need a spire. The BofA spire is a great addition that is visible from the streets as well as the skyline. We'll have to get a detailed view of what a planned spire on this tower would look like (other than the crappy rendering). But I would rather have the design altered to accommodate a spire rather than just tacking one on top.

aquablue

Aug 22, 2017, 9:15 PM

Having a spire would totally damage the skyline. NYC is becoming the city of toothpicks. I wish they would cut it out. If they want to put lights on top of buildings, maybe consider putting crowns instead, like the Salesforce Tower in San Francisco.

Honestly, better a city of toothpicks than a city of massive bulky oppressive boxes like 50 HY. But since your probably talking about spires alone, I would say I have to agree. Spires stuck on to buildings that don't need them just to gain some height and prestige is stupid as heck.

NYguy

Aug 23, 2017, 1:21 AM

Honestly, better a city of toothpicks than a city of massive bulky oppressive boxes like 50 HY. But since your probably talking about spires alone, I would say I have to agree. Spires stuck on to buildings that don't need them just to gain some height and prestige is stupid as heck.

Agreed that this tower doesn't need a spire (again, unless it is redesigned to better fit). But the skyline overall is not dominated by spires. It's a skyline of massive, flat topped boxes, despite the handful of slender supertalls that will go up. All you have to do is look at what's planned in Hudson Yards alone, a wall of mostly flat topped buildings. Walk up (or down) 6th Avenue, and you'll see that the spire of the BofA was a welcome respite. This city should always be crowned in spires. Add a 200-300 ft antenna to 432 Park avenue, and it becomes something else on the skyline. Remove the spire or antenna from the ESB, and it too becomes something else.