CHICAGO | General Developments

[LouisVanDerWright]

^Well restated.

I just keep thinking about all the buildings in this city that need new uses so they can be saved. This museum (or a presidential library) could give desperately needed new life to the Hotel Guyon or Allstate Building, Fisk Generating Station or one of the Pershing Road CMD buildings. My personal choice would be to have it revive three or four connected Motor Row buildings. What a shame to clutter the lakefront with a big new building whose patrons will never look out any windows, in a spot that's frankly no more accessible than Damen & Pershing.

That's ridiculous. Damen and Pershing? Are you joking? This is right in the center of the city and yes, it's a bit of a hike from Transit, but you can't possibly think the SW side 1 mile + from a freeway and the same distance from Transit is "equally accessible" to a site that would virtually have its own off ramps from LSD.

The fact is this museum is not going to go into some neighborhood that needs revitalization. It needs to be on the Lakefront or we aren't going to get the museum period. Now the Obama library is another story and I have high hopes that they will use a prime parcel of vacant land on the south side to house that institution.

[Baronvonellis]

Yea, Lucas' requirements are that it be built from scratch and on water. So it's not an either or thing. They either build it on the lake or we don't get a $1 billion museum in Chicago. It's a easy decision in my mind.

[k1052]

I never thought there could be this much angst about doing away with a couple surface lots. The mayor was always going to deliver a prime spot on the lakefront for this project and anyone who though otherwise was deluding themselves.

[wierdaaron]

I think we owe it to our municipal forebears to be cautious with any kind of lakefront development regardless of the facets.

I had reservations about a Lucas museum on the waterfront until I learned that it would be an actual film/multimedia history museum and not a Star Wars gift shop. I still don't entirely see what it has to do with Chicago other than Lucas' marital connections to the city, but it seems to meet my requirements for public use.

I still think they should air-lift Soldier Field and relocate it to the big empty south loop rezko lot. That'd make space for even more museums on Museum Campus.

Edit: In related news, Lucas museum means a new hope for transit upgrades, panel vows (http://politics.suntimes.com/article/chicago/lucas-museum-means-new-hope-transit-upgrades-panel-vows/tue-05202014-1031am)

Not only would 17 acres of ugly surface parking lots be moved underground at the movie mogul’s expense and replaced by green space — but the museum could open the door to a host of “ambitious enhancements” tailor-made to unclog a transportation bottleneck caused by the concentration of museums, conventions, concerts, sporting and special events in one lakefront location. They include:

◆ Extending bus rapid transit to the museum campus to “speed routes” that begin at Union Station and go through downtown.

◆ Creating a “dedicated trolley service” to and from the Loop and West Loop commuter rail stations.

◆ Building a “pedestrian connection” from the Lucas museum to Northerly Island — either a bridge or a “mid-harbor crossing that prioritizes pedestrians, cyclist and non-motorized transit” — to reduce traffic volumes on the few roadways that connect Northerly Island to the museum campus.

◆ Adding bike paths around the museum campus.

◆ Upgrading 31st Street to handle higher traffic volumes.

◆ Adding water access via Burnham Harbor and a connection to the Lake Michigan Water Trail.

◆ Upgrading the 18th Street entrance and exits to McCormick Place and the museum campus as well as the Roosevelt Road interchange.

The site selection committee also considered a less costly tier of improvements.

They include: reconfiguring the McCormick Place busway to accommodate CTA buses and allow six express bus routes to avoid traffic congestion on Lake Shore Drive; establishing a special CTA bus route from the Lucas Museum to the downtown area or re-routing the CTA’s No. 10 Museum of Science and Industry bus and enhancing the 18th Street Metra stop, now a mere platform, into a “fully-developed station that could be added as a “regular stop.”

[joeg1985]

I had reservations about a Lucas museum on the waterfront until I learned that it would be an actual film/multimedia history museum and not a Star Wars gift shop. I still don't entirely see what it has to do with Chicago other than Lucas' marital connections to the city, but it seems to meet my requirements for public use.



Isn't the museum also going to hold a large collection of Americana and American art? I would say there is no city more American than Chicago, ergo Lucas museum was always meant for our fair city.

[marothisu]

Isn't the museum also going to hold a large collection of Americana and American art? I would say there is no city more American than Chicago, ergo Lucas museum was always meant for our fair city.

Yeah. I think Lucas is an art collector too and has a big collection of Norman Rockwell paintings, for example.

[wierdaaron]

An employee of Davids Tea just told me that they were going to be opening a downtown location "On Michigan Avenue across from Millennium Park" but didn't know where exactly the space was. Any ideas what that could be? I don't know of any retail vacancies in existing buildings...maybe that could be the new retail space at Millennium Park Plaza?

[wierdaaron]

Maggie Daley Park today. The skating ribbon is taking form, and some of the geofoam has been covered in dirt.

http://i.imgur.com/LGNhN0Rl.jpg (http://imgur.com/LGNhN0R)

[J_M_Tungsten]

O wow. The park is really filling in!

[Jibba]

http://i.imgur.com/vW9KMxR.jpg

[Jibba]

[fixed]

[LouisVanDerWright]

Holy shit, they are really ripping Northerly Island to pieces:

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/10390513_667866593279659_6456881348160643579_n.jpg

From the Northerly Island facebook

[untitledreality]

Holy shit, they are really ripping Northerly Island to pieces:

Wow, quite an impressive transformation. I had no idea they were digging the lagoon as well. Lets hope they went deep enough to prevent rampant algae blooms.

[wierdaaron]

What if they just filled in Burnham Harbor? Made just a solid land connection between museum campus and northerly island. That would be nothing compared to the scale of shoreline tampering we've done in the past, and it'd create a lot of convenient park space in the steadily developing south side of downtown. Currently it only benefits boat owners who can afford to dock there.

[LaSalle.St.Station]

If the Lucas Museum ever picks this site, I would hope there would be promises made by the city to mitigate the damage of The soldier field renovation , and the McCormick lakeside hall footprint next to the lake.

Restore soldier field to a simple track and field u shaped layout.

NFL n bears can build a modern downtown stadium SW of The loop amid all the large railroad industrial tracts. Fisk power station tract would be prime.

The next convention hall expansion south, should be a replacement for Lakeside which should be converted into a conservatory for the park district. Or opened up as open lakefront space.

[marothisu]

Damn. Quite the transformation. In smaller news:

* Looks like some building permits were issued for those luxury-ish townhomes/rowhomes around Oak & Clevelnd.

* Some building at 707 N Milwaukee (Milwaukee and Huron) received a building permit to renovate the inside and outside. Looks like it's vacant in the Google Street view from September 2013. It says 12 units and 2 retail units and is not too far from the Chicago Blue Line stop.

* Some $15 Million 5 story senior housing going in around 61st and Cottage Grove. Part of Woodlawn Park owned by POAH (http://www.poah.org/portfolio/illinois/illinois-all.htm). Might be big as demolition permits were issued in january to tear down 5 buildings there.

* Park in Little Village south of that discount mall received a permit to build it out.

* Build out of Walgreens at 122 S Michigan received a permit

* Chicago Public Schools $10M buildout of floors 1-4 and 9 for 1 N Dearborn

[denizen467]

Holy shit, they are really ripping Northerly Island to pieces:
...
From the Northerly Island facebook
We have money to pay for this work?

Is it from Lolla park district money or something?

I guess a middle-of-the-night reversion to downtown runway is now out of the question.

[wierdaaron]

I think the Army Corps of Engineers is funding it.

[LouisVanDerWright]

If the Lucas Museum ever picks this site, I would hope there would be promises made by the city to mitigate the damage of The soldier field renovation , and the McCormick lakeside hall footprint next to the lake.

Restore soldier field to a simple track and field u shaped layout.

NFL n bears can build a modern downtown stadium SW of The loop amid all the large railroad industrial tracts. Fisk power station tract would be prime.

The next convention hall expansion south, should be a replacement for Lakeside which should be converted into a conservatory for the park district. Or opened up as open lakefront space.

Lol, I want whatever you are smoking. Why would the city "make promises to mitigate the damage of the soldier field renovation"? There is a 0% chance of anything like that ever happening and why on earth would it be connected to this project?

Also, the Fisk Power Station site is all the way down in Pilsen, not close to downtown at all. We should be fighting to preserve the original Fisk building and remove all the garbage additions over the years, not level the site for a stadium when we already have oodles of open land down there.

[PKDickman]

Across the street (W) from the old Fulton Cold Storage - does this mean that they are asking that the project's required parking (?) be counted as spots nearby ?


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LWvtQx41i6w/U3tvTOCUpBI/AAAAAAAB49k/6hSsGzvTwW0/w1044-h364-no/P1050426-001.JPG

Yes.
Required parking is supposed to be on the same zoning lot as the occupancies they serve.

In this case, for whatever reason, they do not wish to devote part of this lot for those spaces, and they are asking for a special use to allow them to provide those spaces on another zoning lot.

[UPChicago]

Holy shit, they are really ripping Northerly Island to pieces:


From the Northerly Island facebook

Wow, I guess no one would have known this was underway until it was done and Rahm had some grandiose press conference to unveil it!

[i_am_hydrogen]

Phase 1:
http://imageshack.com/a/img835/1161/d0fhp.jpg


http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/NIslCurbed.jpg

[wierdaaron]

Posted this to the wrong thread this morning:

Northerly island from my office:

http://i.imgur.com/TWi1Hkel.jpg (http://imgur.com/TWi1Hke)

I thought it looked like there was water in the middle but I thought I was just seeing things.

[Baronvonellis]

Umm, why is it called an island when it is a peninsula? And its on the southside? Southernly Peninsula? It's name makes my head hurt lol

[LouisVanDerWright]

Umm, why is it called an island when it is a peninsula? And its on the southside? Southernly Peninsula? It's name makes my head hurt lol

Because it was originally part of a larger plan to build a chain of islands starting in Jackson Park all the way up to downtown. This was the only one that got built and the Isthmus was there as a connection allowing them to drive out on the future island to dump more fill. This would have been the northern most island of the chain and therefore was called Northerly Island. It's a shame the other islands never came about.

[HomrQT]

Phase 1:


http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/NIslCurbed.jpg

That looks rugged and natural and awesome.

[r18tdi]

Here's the Northerly Island master plan that woodrow posted back on page 1181 in case anyone hasn't seen it or needs a refresher:
http://www.cpdit01.com/resources/planning-and-development.home/pdf.frameworkplans/Northerly%20Island%20Framework%20Plan.pdf

[Mr Downtown]

Here's the general idea Burnham had been pushing since the World's Columbian Exposition closed:

http://www.chicagocarto.com/burnham/images/centrallakefront.jpg

More images, including construction in the late 1920s, here. (http://www.chicagocarto.com/burnham/lakefront.html)

[J_M_Tungsten]

Man, I have been schooled on Chicago history today. Thank you all!

[Baronvonellis]

Those islands are cool but they never happened. So in reality today it is southerly peninsula.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Those islands are cool but they never happened. So in reality today it is southerly peninsula.

Actually a landmass surrounded on all sides by water, but connected to the mainland by an artificial isthmus is still technically considered an island:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island

Also, the N/S centerline of Chicago is not actually Madison, but somewhere in the 20's. So actually it is still and island and north of most of the City of Chicago.

Just sayin' ;)

[Baronvonellis]

The whole peninsular landmass is artificial. It's being created as we speak. It is also south of Belmont Ave., the Wisconsin border, on the southern end of Lake Michigan, and facing in a southerly direction.

[Kngkyle]

Rode my bike by northerly island yesterday, looks like they've planted trees/grasses now. Workers were out there watering them.

Poor quality phone pic:
http://kngkyle.com/uploads/2014-05-22_1332.png

[harryc]

As seen from McCormick place
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DT4ZoExBjKo/U384x3su7MI/AAAAAAAB5D4/YyPQGYzIBdE/w1207-h905-no/P1050645.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d0Oq2J7k8vg/U384yhHKHuI/AAAAAAAB5D8/TwFBxPP11_I/w1207-h905-no/P1050647.JPG

[Kenmore]

this is going to be so cool 10 years down the road :slob:

[marothisu]

Interesting bit of rehab happening on the building just south of the Old Colony Building at Dearborn/Van Buren. Looks like it's separate from the Old Colony work.

http://i.imgur.com/GhsYjhxl.jpg (http://imgur.com/GhsYjhx)

Could just be the lighting, but the particleboard happens to be almost the same color as the brickwork.

Any update on the Old Colony Building's conversion to 204 units?

http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2013/02/15/old-colony-building-targeted-for-gut-rehab-rental-conversion.php

[Mr Roboto]

They really do need a pedestrian bridge though to northerly island.

Also the whole south side needs better access to the lakefront across LSD.

[Chicago Shawn]

frame building came down for a new SFH. photos from yesterday

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv538%3C%3Dot%3E2344%3D%3A4%3B%3D6%3A8%3DXROQDF%3E2%3A%3B7276584239ot1lsi

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv%3B5%3A%3B%3Dot%3E2344%3D%3A4%3B%3D6%3A8%3DXROQDF%3E2%3A%3B7276585239ot1lsi

^Pretty easy to spot that the corner apartment building came after frame building was built to the lot line, or perhaps the lot was subdivided and sold when the denser building was constructed.

[Vlajos]

frame building came down for a new SFH. photos from yesterday

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv538%3C%3Dot%3E2344%3D%3A4%3B%3D6%3A8%3DXROQDF%3E2%3A%3B7276584239ot1lsi

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv%3B5%3A%3B%3Dot%3E2344%3D%3A4%3B%3D6%3A8%3DXROQDF%3E2%3A%3B7276585239ot1lsi

^Pretty easy to spot that the corner apartment building came after frame building was built to the lot line, or perhaps the lot was subdivided and sold when the denser building was constructed.

That sold recently and I figured it to be a teardown, confirmed now.

[Baronvonellis]

The frame buildings were built before it was part of Chicago. Lakeview township I think. Since Chicago required masonry construction after the fire. So the brick stuff came later, when it got annexed to Chicago.

[Mr Downtown]

Well, the full story is much more complicated, including the Germans on the North Side having the clout to get their area exempted from the Fire Limits, within which only masonry buildings could be built. But most relevant here is that—as you note—Lake View (as well as the Towns of Jefferson, Lake, and Hyde Park) weren't part of the city until 1889.

Map of the Fire Limits (in yellow):

http://i.imgur.com/SBL8jAV.png

[gallo]

In reference to the CTA Belmont Flyover project:

Since the CTA failed is failing to fully illustrate the magnitude of demolition and it's effect on the neighborhood, I've decided to do some quick visualizations that shows what happens and how it feels as a pedestrian when intact blocks are removed and replaced with vacant land and/or parking. Though there is potential for new development on some of these sites, even that would be unlikely to happen for 5-10 years once the project gets started.

The visualizations aren't intended to precisely show what the final infrastructure would look like, but they speak to the enormous impact that this project, as currently designed, would have on the neighborhood fabric as well as existing businesses and residents in the area. Feel free to share these among those interested.

It is essential that the CTA work with the community on a context-sensitive solution to improving efficiency on the Red, Purple and Brown Lines that doesn't create substantial negative impacts.

First up is Clark and School looking north, where the CTA want's to straighten a slight curve in the tracks at the expense of this block:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/adamrosa/ClarkandSchoolDemolition_zps5f6799b1.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/adamrosa/media/ClarkandSchoolDemolition_zps5f6799b1.jpg.html)

[k1052]

That is Clark and Roscoe.

I have yet to hear an explanation from the CTA about why they want to straighten this jog. Seems like a lot of expense to go through to do it but maybe there is a reasonable explanation that I'm not aware of.

The flyover component itself is a worthy project which should be done regardless. NIMBYs saying its only a minute to a minute and half delay on average and isn't worth it don't get the larger picture about upping TPH which will be required in the not distant future.

[thewaterman11]

That is Clark and Roscoe.

I have yet to hear an explanation from the CTA about why they want to straighten this jog. Seems like a lot of expense to go through to do it but maybe there is a reasonable explanation that I'm not aware of.

The flyover component itself is a worthy project which should be done regardless. NIMBYs saying its only a minute to a minute and half delay on average and isn't worth it don't get the larger picture about upping TPH which will be required in the not distant future.

Surely for a city facing another large budget hole, those $320 million dollars that destroy buildings (and rid of those pesky tenants that pay taxes and all) and save those 80 seconds could be better spent elsewhere... it's a busy corridor but the high cost coupled with atrocious urban design sense make the idea a terrible one to me.

[Busy Bee]

The more I think about this project the more I dislike it. Necessary demo and aesthetics aside, IS the flyover really all that necessary in the larger scope of things? Don't many other large systems with much higher ridership have similar stop and go points and cross tracks at grade? New York comes to mind with the M coming into the JZ Jamaica elevated. I'm sure there are other examples in NY as well as London, Paris, Berlin, etc.

It seems to me it just isn't worth the money when so much of the system is antiquated and in need of investment, especially when the project will negatively impact the urban design of the area. I say just do what you can to help the issue with scheduling and PTC and move on to bigger issues. Somehow we've managed for nearly 100 years...

[k1052]

Surely for a city facing another large budget hole, those $320 million dollars that destroy buildings (and rid of those pesky tenants that pay taxes and all) and save those 80 seconds could be better spent elsewhere... it's a busy corridor but the high cost coupled with atrocious urban design sense make the idea a terrible one to me.

A lot of that will be coming from the feds. It's not just only about saving 80 seconds on current schedules (which mind you is already per TRAIN so its not negligible) but being able to increase TPH on the Brown and Red Lines in the future which will most definitely be required. The CTA has had this on their wish list for a couple decades now.

Should the CTA be made responsible to only do partial demos where possible and replace/develop resultant vacant sites in a timely manner? Definitely. Discussing the mechanisms to make that happen is a lot more productive conversation IMO.

[k1052]

The more I think about this project the more I dislike it. Necessary demo and aesthetics aside, IS the flyover really all that necessary in the larger scope of things? Don't many other large systems with much higher ridership have similar stop and go points and cross tracks at grade? New York comes to mind with the M coming into the JZ Jamaica elevated. I'm sure there are other examples in NY as well as London, Paris, Berlin, etc.

It seems to me it just isn't worth the money when so much of the system is antiquated and in need of investment, especially when the project will negatively impact the urban design of the area. I say just do what you can to help the issue with scheduling and PTC and move on to bigger issues. Somehow we've managed for nearly 100 years...


If I had to venture a guess adding PTC would probably run the CTA somewhere north of a billion dollars. The Flushing line CBTC project alone is costing the MTA $500M and counting.

[gallo]

You're correct, the first image was from Roscoe Street, not School. Here is the west side of Clark, just south of Roscoe. The building housing Cassava is one of the finest along Clark Street, and would be a major loss through demolition.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/adamrosa/ClarkandRoscoeWestDemolition_zps57a09fb6.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/adamrosa/media/ClarkandRoscoeWestDemolition_zps57a09fb6.jpg.html)

[untitledreality]

The more I think about this project the more I dislike it. Necessary demo and aesthetics aside, IS the flyover really all that necessary in the larger scope of things? Don't many other large systems with much higher ridership have similar stop and go points and cross tracks at grade? New York comes to mind with the M coming into the JZ Jamaica elevated. I'm sure there are other examples in NY as well as London, Paris, Berlin, etc.

It seems to me it just isn't worth the money when so much of the system is antiquated and in need of investment, especially when the project will negatively impact the urban design of the area. I say just do what you can to help the issue with scheduling and PTC and move on to bigger issues. Somehow we've managed for nearly 100 years...
I am starting to feel the same way. Maybe if the entire line had been upgraded and this one particular spot was the DEFINITIVE choke point for the system, then I could get behind it 100%. But there are many more issues effecting ride times on the North side that could be resolved without such massive urban carnage. (Im looking at you North/Clybourn curve)

[Tom Servo]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/adamrosa/ClarkandSchoolDemolition_zps5f6799b1.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/adamrosa/media/ClarkandSchoolDemolition_zps5f6799b1.jpg.html)

Wait. What the fuck hellish nightmare am I looking at?!?!?

[ardecila]

I am starting to feel the same way. Maybe if the entire line had been upgraded and this one particular spot was the DEFINITIVE choke point for the system, then I could get behind it 100%. But there are many more issues effecting ride times on the North side that could be resolved without such massive urban carnage. (Im looking at you North/Clybourn curve)

It is the definitive choke point. A delay or malfunction in the switches here will throw off the L system for the entire North Side. It is literally critical. A sharp curve here or there is a drag but doesn't have the potential for cascading failures.

However, I don't see the need to straighten the jog on the Main Line over Clark, especially when CTA is proposing to add more jogs further north to accommodate wider station platforms. Reducing the scope of the project to just the flyover can cut the land acquisition by half, at least.

[k1052]

You're correct, the first image was from Roscoe Street, not School. Here is the west side of Clark, just south of Roscoe. The building housing Cassava is one of the finest along Clark Street, and would be a major loss through demolition.


Just at a glance it looks like the CTA could easily just trim the building back and take the room needed without a total demolition. Helps that there is a nice vacant lot next door to stage on...I still miss Thai Classic though.

[harryc]

[QUOTE=gallo;6589571]You're correct, the first image was from Roscoe Street, not School. Here is the west side of Clark, just south of Roscoe. The building housing Cassava is one of the finest along Clark Street, and would be a major loss through demolition.

...snop.../QUOTE]

Thank you for the illustrations - very compelling.

[gallo]

Wait. What the fuck hellish nightmare am I looking at?!?!?

The CTA wants to demo that entire block in order to straighten out a very slight jog in the tracks, completely unrelated to the proposed flyover.

[k1052]

However, I don't see the need to straighten the jog on the Main Line over Clark, especially when CTA is proposing to add more jogs further north to accommodate wider station platforms. Reducing the scope of the project to just the flyover can cut the land acquisition by half, at least.

This is what I want to know. I don't see any compelling reason to do this given the costs and limited apparent benefit.

The flyover itself must happen particularly if we're going to blow a couple billion rebuilding the North Main line and all it's stations.

[DonMendigo]

Tower crane up at the expansion of St Joseph at Sheridan and Surf. Finally.

[UPChicago]

I think the whole Red Line modernization project is shortsighted. It is going to cost $2 billion to renovate the north line as an elevated track and would have cost $2.2 to run the subway north to Wilson, which would have eliminated a need for a flyover all together. Don't quote me on the price but it was fairly close for building a subway verse renovating the elevated tracks.

[untitledreality]

It is the definitive choke point. A delay or malfunction in the switches here will throw off the L system for the entire North Side. It is literally critical. A sharp curve here or there is a drag but doesn't have the potential for cascading failures.

However, I don't see the need to straighten the jog on the Main Line over Clark, especially when CTA is proposing to add more jogs further north to accommodate wider station platforms. Reducing the scope of the project to just the flyover can cut the land acquisition by half, at least.
Fine, but at least we can agree on the jog straightening.

And please, can someone tell CTA that the best way to hide the fact they are proposing a massive 50 foot tall flyover is NOT to build what amounts to a concrete tube through the sky. A minimal depth, side barrier-less, steel structure would be far more visually appealing, less intrusive, block less sunlight, and allow for some visual excitement by leaving the passing trains exposed.

[k1052]

I think the whole Red Line modernization project is shortsighted. It is going to cost $2 billion to renovate the north line as an elevated track and would have cost $2.2 to run the subway north to Wilson, which would have eliminated a need for a flyover all together. Don't quote me on the price but it was fairly close for building a subway verse renovating the elevated tracks.

It is politically impossible to close/consolidate the existing stops to make the subway alternative work. People went ballistic and at least a couple alderman came out very much against it when it was first proposed a few years back. The CTA hasn't touched that particular live wire since.

[Baronvonellis]

Wasn't the ridership much higher back in the 40's and 50's than today? What did they do then without the flyover?

[ardecila]

^ The whole system worked on sight - some guy sat up in the tower at Clark Junction and operated the signals manually. Trains could clear the junction as fast as the signalman could work the signals.

The modern electronic signaling system has to include a cushion before and after each train moves through the junction, to allow for unexpected issues (before, the signalman could just respond in a live fashion). That cushion time, plus the longer length of Brown Line trains, has slowed down the junction in terms of TPH considerably.

Also consider that CTA didn't necessarily run more trains back then... there was just more crowding.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Wait, how much are they spending on this flyover again??? That $320 million would be better spent just building another leg of Brown Line track straight east along Wilson and connecting the Brown to the Red at a new Wilson station rebuild. It's only a 1 mile gap, they are paying $423/mile for the Red Line Extension. So for another $100 million we could get an entirely new section of track that would tie into another major construction project we have to do anyhow, instead of gutting a large swath of one of the most vibrant neighborhoods in the city.

Think of how absurd that is. We could just have grade level junctions in both intersections and start running every other Brown Line Train onto the far North Side. Maybe we could even open the door for possible crazy connections like a Purple Line to O'Hare Route with another Brown Line extension to Jeff Park. For that matter, I am going to have to demand that they do something like that instead. It's absolutely absurd how much money the CTA throws at piss ant projects when they could expand capacity elsewhere while still increasing inter connectivity in the system.

[k1052]

Wait, how much are they spending on this flyover again??? That $320 million would be better spent just building another leg of Brown Line track straight east along Wilson and connecting the Brown to the Red at a new Wilson station rebuild. It's only a 1 mile gap, they are paying $423/mile for the Red Line Extension. So for another $100 million we could get an entirely new section of track that would tie into another major construction project we have to do anyhow, instead of gutting a large swath of one of the most vibrant neighborhoods in the city.

Think of how absurd that is. We could just have grade level junctions in both intersections and start running every other Brown Line Train onto the far North Side. Maybe we could even open the door for possible crazy connections like a Purple Line to O'Hare Route with another Brown Line extension to Jeff Park. For that matter, I am going to have to demand that they do something like that instead. It's absolutely absurd how much money the CTA throws at piss ant projects when they could expand capacity elsewhere while still increasing inter connectivity in the system.

I'd like to see the community meetings where running a new elevated structure down Wilson is proposed. It would be better than HBO.

[BWChicago]

What would the Wilson section accomplish? How would you through-route it? I see what you wrote, but you have to account for frequency, balancing, switching and a bunch of other things. The extra switching could add to delays rather than diminish them. Are there that many people who would go lateral and north that don't just take a bus to the brown/red already?

[Mr Downtown]

Gentlemen, we have a transit thread. (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=101657&goto=newpost)

[Chicago Shawn]

^ The whole system worked on sight - some guy sat up in the tower at Clark Junction and operated the signals manually. Trains could clear the junction as fast as the signalman could work the signals.

The modern electronic signaling system has to include a cushion before and after each train moves through the junction, to allow for unexpected issues (before, the signalman could just respond in a live fashion). That cushion time, plus the longer length of Brown Line trains, has slowed down the junction in terms of TPH considerably.

Also consider that CTA didn't necessarily run more trains back then... there was just more crowding.

Plus, transit ridership wasn't so downtown-centric back then, trains were full both ways as factory workers rode them to outlying industrial corridors like Ravenswood, Kinzie and Cicero.

Regarding the northside subway concept mentioned on the previous page; keep in mind the subway is only a two track option; forever giving up the possibility of a true local and express train set up on the north side main. Other than the opportunity to fill the existing ROW with new TOD infill development, I really don't see the advantage to replacing the elevated embankment.

[the urban politician]

Since we're all veering off topic, I'd like to make an off topic observation:

The threadstarter of this 8 year old thread, Chicago Bruce, whose name forever remains immortalized because of it, has not posted at SSP since June of 2007. 7 years!

Damn!

[Busy Bee]

Since we're all veering off topic, I'd like to make an off topic observation:

The threadstarter of this 8 year old thread, Chicago Bruce, whose name forever remains immortalized because of it, has not posted at SSP since June of 2007. 7 years!

Damn!

I've always wondered if a forumer died, how would any of us know without knowing the persons actual name?

[the urban politician]

^. Some have purported that Honte died. He was a very active forumer who was passionate about Chicago's architectural heritage who suddenly stopped posting after around April 2008. Some of the old timers here may still remember him. There are still theories, but I don't know if anybody here knows definitively why he suddenly stopped posting.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Shit just got real.

[nomarandlee]

I enjoy many other Chicago forumers opinions and thoughts shared here. I remember especially appreciating honte's opinions and his passion for preservation in particular though.

[ardecila]

Yes... his insights were always appreciated.

[Skyguy_7]

^That actually happened over in the NY threads with "Zensteeldude." He was a well-respected, knowledgable member and SSP forumers far and wide were met with sadness upon hearing the news of his passing. His wife signed off on his behalf. I suppose the only thing we can do is make a pact not to leave the forum without a farewell, or just give a family member your login info. At any rate, have a great holiday, all. Construction season ramps up on Tuesday.

[the urban politician]

This is obviously quite off topic, but the internet is only about 18 ish years old and most of us urban enthusiasts are still pretty young. But the reality is, SSP will probably be around for the foreseeable future. At some point there will be some deaths in our community as weird as that sounds. I guess we should all come up with a plan to make arrangements so that the SSP community is notified of this (if you care, of course). Anyway, I obviously have nothing better to do today but these last few posts got me thinking. Carry on...

[Busy Bee]

I've perused the forums over at wirednewyork for nearly as long but not near as obsessively as I have with SSP. I remember a big incident in 2006/2007 where a prolific forumer who went by the name TLOZ Link5 was actually a victim of violent crime and was killed when a car struck him in Harlem after being chased by some stupid punk kids who we're threatening him. It was a pretty big deal for a while over there and remember it being talked about/referenced frequently. I'm sure the thread or threads about this incident are still on the WNY forums as they seem to be absolutely unmanaged and moderated, not to mention organized, which in some ways is kind of neat as some threads go back 10+ years!

Anyways, just thought I'd mention this to see if anyone else recalls this happening.

[bnk]

This is obviously quite off topic, but the internet is only about 18 ish years old and most of us urban enthusiasts are still pretty young. But the reality is, SSP will probably be around for the foreseeable future. At some point there will be some deaths in our community as weird as that sounds. I guess we should all come up with a plan to make arrangements so that the SSP community is notified of this (if you care, of course). Anyway, I obviously have nothing better to do today but these last few posts got me thinking. Carry on...

We [ssp] will eventually need an obituary sticky at some point. I know of at least 5 confirmed deaths of fourmers in the last 6 years. I could for see a memorial type of site.

They say you die twice.

The first, the worst, is when you die physically .

The second is when everyone forgets talking about you or no longer have memories of your life in other friends and family of you and let your stories and grave be ignored.

[Busy Bee]

We [ssp] will eventually need an obituary sticky at some point. I know of at least 5 confirmed deaths of fourmers in the last 6 years. I could for see a memorial type of site.

They say you die twice.

The first, the worst, is when you die physically .

The second is when everyone forgets talking about you or no longer have memories of your life in other friends and family of you and let your stories and grave be ignored.

^this post is more depressing than any supertall cancellation announcement I've ever seen. This COULD be the most depressing post in the history of SSP.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

brb gotta slit my wrists

[Tom Servo]

The CTA wants to demo that entire block in order to straighten out a very slight jog in the tracks, completely unrelated to the proposed flyover.

That's absolutely absurd. How likely is this to happening???

[jcchii]

That really made me laugh, Busy Bee

[Chicago Shawn]

We [ssp] will eventually need an obituary sticky at some point. I know of at least 5 confirmed deaths of fourmers in the last 6 years. I could for see a memorial type of site.

They say you die twice.

The first, the worst, is when you die physically .

The second is when everyone forgets talking about you or no longer have memories of your life in other friends and family of you and let your stories and grave be ignored.

Bucky, one of our South Loopers passed about 6 years ago. He was older and died when cancer he had been fighting returned.

SaphireBlueEyes who liked to ruffle feathers on SSP by criticizing Mies Buildings passed in early June 2010 at a very young age, the result of heart condition.

I came to know both forumers personally and will continue to remember them as time goes on. One benefit of the internet is that those previous postings can be searched and recalled as long as the site remains active.

[the urban politician]

^ I do remember SapphireBlueeyes, and this is the first time I am hearing that he passed away. Wow, even though we never meet many of these people personally, it is still a somewhat eerie and sad feeling to hear such news.

[wrab]

^. Some have purported that Honte died. He was a very active forumer who was passionate about Chicago's architectural heritage who suddenly stopped posting after around April 2008. Some of the old timers here may still remember him. There are still theories, but I don't know if anybody here knows definitively why he suddenly stopped posting.

I was one of the theorists, afraid that Honte might have been Ezra Gordon (whose death in 2009 dovetailed so neatly with Honte's disappearance). But I was later assured by another SSP member, who knows Honte in the flesh, that Honte was in fact alive & well, but had moved his energies away from the forums.

[marothisu]

The new Chinatown library is nearing construction start. The parking lot where it will go is fenched off and the asphalt was torn up. It appears that they removed the torn up asphalt too and there's a rendering of the future library on a sign there.


EDIT: How the hell do you resize images thru BB? Nothing is working

[LouisVanDerWright]

Finally some signs of visible progress at Northwest Tower / Coyote Building. They have deconstructed large sections of the parapet wall that has been covered in protective black tarps for years now. Looks like they are starting repair work on the building masonry too. This hotel can't open soon enough!

[Via Chicago]

.

[Via Chicago]

First up is Clark and School looking north, where the CTA want's to straighten a slight curve in the tracks at the expense of this block:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/adamrosa/ClarkandSchoolDemolition_zps5f6799b1.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/adamrosa/media/ClarkandSchoolDemolition_zps5f6799b1.jpg.html)

christ.

theres gotta be a better solution than digging out 60s urban renewal blueprints from the bottom of the file cabinet.

its irresponsible of the city and the CTA to not be making these types of renderings, and quickly apparent why theyre not. this should be widely circulated.

[marothisu]

Does anyone know if something might be happening to that unfortunate building at 1110 N State with the Subway and Astrology business (Ms. Devon) next to the former Hunt Club? Just saw a building permit, new construction, for interior alterations for it listed as owner occupied under the address that the Green Mill is at under the name of guy who I am assuming is the local jazz bassist with the same name considering the address is under the Green Mill and he's randomly listed on their website.. It would be cool to get some live music in that building instead..

Please tell me something is happening to this and they are being replaced with better businesses. Perhaps this is why the Hunt Club people didn't tear this building down?


So, both of the Subway signs on the outside of the building were taken down (saw it happen on Friday) and there's paper covering everything over the windows including tape so you can't even see inside really. The light was on around 11pm - so they may be doing work.

I realized too that I got the above address wrong. So it's a guy out of Addison, TX (the bassist thing with Green Mill was a coincidence). I looked up the address and it's a Twin Peaks restaurant. The guy it's under looks like he may be the SVP of development for Frontburner Restaurants which owns the Melting Pot, Burger 21, and GrillSmith. So perhaps it's one of these (though probably not Melting Pot). I really hope not though - the last thing we need is another shitty chain restaurant though I don't think you could fit one of these in it unless they were taking over the 2nd floor Astrology business too - which is possible because it mentions 2 story in the permit. Permit is a sizable renovation too at $575K.

[denizen467]

We [ssp] will eventually need an obituary sticky at some point. I know of at least 5 confirmed deaths of fourmers in the last 6 years. I could for see a memorial type of site.

They say you die twice.

The first, the worst, is when you die physically .

The second is when everyone forgets talking about you or no longer have memories of your life in other friends and family of you and let your stories and grave be ignored.
I agree with Busy Bee's assessment.

But it's true some kind of "In memoriam" page might be a good idea. The thing with having a family member notify the forum is another good idea.

As far as honte goes, I hope he pulls a Michael Jordan and comes back for a second run on SSP.

While we're on this subject, I just noticed ardecila now has over 10000 posts. Man, I think there was a time that number was smaller than mine - he started just a couple months after I did. TUP also has five digits but has about a two year jump on us. Anyway, looking at BNK's criteria, they will have particularly long afterlives. I guess the internet has given all of us a small sliver of immortality...

[ardecila]

99.99 percent of them are meaningless

[Skyguy_7]

Prentice.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_-jYJj1-Lbk/U4SA99g1yqI/AAAAAAAAA2A/BpbG6QyiXOw/w413-h551-no/14+-+8

[wrab]

^ So sad, and still beautiful, even in its demolition.

[george]

5/23

GEMS World Academy

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/845/ytrr.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/nhytrrj)

[Jibba]

The new Chinatown library is nearing construction start. The parking lot where it will go is fenched off and the asphalt was torn up. It appears that they removed the torn up asphalt too and there's a rendering of the future library on a sign there.


EDIT: How the hell do you resize images thru BB? Nothing is working

I had the same problem--couldn't get the resize function to work. I don't think this forum's version of vBulletin has the feature (just guessing...).

[wrab]

Thanks George for the GEMS pic. The building looks great IMHO - a burst of color at LSE.

[gallo]

christ.

theres gotta be a better solution than digging out 60s urban renewal blueprints from the bottom of the file cabinet.

its irresponsible of the city and the CTA to not be making these types of renderings, and quickly apparent why theyre not. this should be widely circulated.

I agree... which is why I sent them to the Alderman and various neighborhood groups. While the infrastructure may look more modern and attractive, it can't mask the fact that we'd be losing a whole lot of urban fabric for the forseable future and gaining a whole lot of vacant land and/or surface parking.

Not to mention the fact that none of these existing buildings have any dedicated off-street parking that new development would need to provide (additional curb cuts, lowered walk ability etc)

[denizen467]

Very large crane (I think a tower crane) is up on a big Rogers Park site on Sheridan, on southeast corner at Sherwin. What's going here? Previously there was a fairly dignified mansion/house here, surrounded by mature trees (and a set back parking lot).

[Rizzo]

^ I think a parking garage

[Mikemak27]

The tribune company is putting up some of its unused space at the freedom center west of the river and north of Chicago Avenue, which is currently vacant, up for lease or sale. That specific parcel is not in the planned manufacturing district which is south of Chicago avenue, so the tribune company hopes it can be rezoned to a developer if they can't find a tenant for lease.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20140528/CRED03/140529809?template=mobile

[marothisu]

^ I think a parking garage

Yep. Building permit for "deep foundation system" for a 5 story parking garage. $8.96 Mil.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20131018/rogers-park/pritzker-parking-garage-sheridan-road-plan-clears-final-hurdle