CHICAGO | General Developments

[HomrQT]

I actually like the design. Here's the image posted on Curbed: (http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2013/06/21/north-ave-citgo-fenced-off-ahead-of-18unit-condo-building.php)

http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/062113-hermitage.jpg

I love seeing these gas stations bite the dust.

I like it. I'll almost be on the favorable side with brick, and this building has a touch of colonial to it. Not awe inspiring, but good enough.

[spyguy]

Maple & State
http://i40.tinypic.com/2lksln6.jpg

Cedar & State
http://i42.tinypic.com/2e4x2bs.jpg

In addition to the new residential tower proposed for State and Elm and DRW's renewed interest in building a hotel tower on the Cedar Hotel parcel. I can't believe that through this all, that fugly Subway/psychic building still stands.

[ardecila]

One fantastic, one average.

Both are nice upgrades over the status quo, tho...

[the urban politician]

Not too excited about J Crew and Timberland as retailers, I hope those are just placeholder names. I am more excited about the top project. Is that some sort of multilevel dept store?

[denizen467]

^ Yes, probably placeholders; they show up as "Timbarland" and "Crew J.". I can't believe how slow development is along Viagra Triangle. But finally.

[Rizzo]

It's been kind of mess this past year. But glad to see this stuff moving forward. The proposed buildings look great.

[marothisu]

The buildings look great, but one thing worries me about the Maple & State one. It looks as if some or all of those old nice buildings to the west of State would be demolished for this new building? I think those are great buildings and most of them should be staying. Also, I thought the owner of the Hunt Club tore it down to build a more upscale lounge/bar there. I guess this isn't happening anymore? Looks like retail on the first level instead.


Also about the gas station thing - it's not a terrible design, just was hoping for something more modern. Now that people do mention it though, it does have a very subtle colonial influence to it.

[prelude91]

Maple & State
http://i40.tinypic.com/2lksln6.jpg

Cedar & State
http://i42.tinypic.com/2e4x2bs.jpg

In addition to the new residential tower proposed for State and Elm and DRW's renewed interest in building a hotel tower on the Cedar Hotel parcel. I can't believe that through this all, that fugly Subway/psychic building still stands.

Does this mean that "maple and Ash" building is dead? Also are we knocking down that row of buildings immediately west of this lot? That would suck.

[J_M_Tungsten]

Wow, isn't maple and state the old hunt club site? What a drastic redesign from the earlier proposal.

[marothisu]

Wow, isn't maple and state the old hunt club site? What a drastic redesign from the earlier proposal.

Yep, which is what I alluded to and Prelude was talking about Maple & Ash. That first floor looks like retail, and Maple & Ash was supposed to be a 2 floor restaurant/bar (http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20121203/CRED03/121209986/owner-plans-to-tear-down-hunt-club-build-bigger-restaurant)

I would hope some nightlife comes to the new building, but I'm actually more concerned of those old, nice buildings directly west being torn down. That would NOT be good.

[Rizzo]

Oh yeah, just noticed those may be toast. Really wish those would stay. That's why I liked the original maple and ash proposal because it would make that narrow building more difficult to tear down and redevelop.

[spyguy]

Does this mean that "maple and Ash" building is dead? Also are we knocking down that row of buildings immediately west of this lot? That would suck.

Pretty much correct. The new building will include a restaurant/entertainment component on the 4th and 5th floor. I think I mentioned months ago about the demo-delay on those older buildings to the west; the enlarged footprint of this new proposal now explains why. Still not sure why the Subway building is a hold out on that block.

[marothisu]

Pretty much correct. The new building will include a restaurant/entertainment component on the 4th and 5th floor. I think I mentioned months ago about the demo-delay on those older buildings to the west; the enlarged footprint of this new proposal now explains why. Still not sure why the Subway building is a hold out on that block.

I really wish the subway/psychic building would be torn down instead of those NICE old buildings to the west. What the hell are people thinking? ugh.. Perfect opportunity to get rid of some shit buildings (subway one) and keep the good ones (i.e. the one with Corepower in it), but nope, the other way around of course..

[J_M_Tungsten]

^Unfortunately, I feel that is becoming the norm.

The unmistakable new Walgreens on Broadway, Clark, and Diversy.
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/New%20pics/5E79F3F5-AC70-4F31-82C5-F6F24A7A3643.jpg (http://s592.photobucket.com/user/JMTUNGSTEN/media/New%20pics/5E79F3F5-AC70-4F31-82C5-F6F24A7A3643.jpg.html)

[Rizzo]

On a related note, tenants out on the ground floor of 122 s michigan and a walgreens rumored to be moving in.

Tenants that left are Bennigans, an art gallery, au Bon pain, a shoe shine place, and a convenience store. No idea if falafill will remain as it sits in the original Adams entrance of the building.

[wierdaaron]

Bennigans is leaving that coveted spot across from the Art Institute? Walgreens seems to have a thing for being right next to or inside of important things.

[Mr Downtown]

^I think they just have a thing for bigger stores these days. I'm sure this will supplant the one at Washington & Michigan.

I'll miss that au bon pain.

[XIII]

Chicago Fire Soccer dome going into a vacant lot along the river in North Center. The "dome" is an air-supported dome and not any sort of permanent stadium structure. The structure will also include 15000 sq ft for offices and retail.

Looks like it will mostly be used for Recreational leagues and the occasional team practice

Read about it at Crains (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/CG/20131216/BLOGS04/131219854/AR/0/AR-131219854.jpg&maxw=425&q=100&cb=20131216051741)

[nomarandlee]

Chicago Fire Soccer dome going into a vacant lot along the river in North Center. The "dome" is an air-supported dome and not any sort of permanent stadium structure. The structure will also include 15000 sq ft for offices and retail.

Looks like it will mostly be used for Recreational leagues and the occasional team practice

Read about it at Crains (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/CG/20131216/BLOGS04/131219854/AR/0/AR-131219854.jpg&maxw=425&q=100&cb=20131216051741)

Like the idea a lot. Don't like the location. Ideally I would like to see nearly all parts of the river redeveloped for residential use where practical with a public ROW along the banks.

[Baronvonellis]

That far north the river is just a small overgrown creek. It's not scenic or attractive to look at. I don't see what the appeal is. Lake Michigan is much more scenic.

[SamInTheLoop]

^I think they just have a thing for bigger stores these days. I'm sure this will supplant the one at Washington & Michigan.

I'll miss that au bon pain.



Possibly could supplant, but also - especially if 122 S Michigan is planned to be a (roughly) 'flagship'-size store - wouldn't surprise me at all if they decided to keep operating at Washington and Michigan. For example, they've kept 15 W Washington (similarly 'newish' store as at Washington and Michigan) open despite State/Randolph flagship presence.....

[SamInTheLoop]

You like the design? I guess it gets a lot of the fundamentals right and doesn't have a lot of fussy details.



I think I had a similar surprise in my reaction.

I wouldn't go nearly so far as to say that I like it. I might say - of all the shitty, clumsy, neo-re-trad-trash-leaning junk slung about out in da wards, my vomit didn't quite exit my mouth in full, frozen-rope projectile fashion this morning........it was perhaps something more than a dribble, but the rendered design at hand was not quite stomach-churning enough to manage something tremendously more impressively crowd-pleasing than that....

Also, does it not floor anybody else that this Mark McKinney, Marty Parish Sedgwick lackey/hackey is on the IIT (note - I got the letters right - not ITT.....that's IIT) payroll? Seriously? And, wtf?!

[Skyguy_7]

Illinois Masonic Outpatient Expansion - Dec 13 & 14

I Can't believe they approved that color :haha:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_6PtKV2bxVQ/Uq8xr8nSFjI/AAAAAAAAAVw/3YE5iHK2LCc/w746-h559-no/497.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LzK7g8U4E24/Uq8xr21OqVI/AAAAAAAAAV0/i2AadoXi4uk/w746-h559-no/525.JPG

[Vlajos]

Pretty much correct. The new building will include a restaurant/entertainment component on the 4th and 5th floor. I think I mentioned months ago about the demo-delay on those older buildings to the west; the enlarged footprint of this new proposal now explains why. Still not sure why the Subway building is a hold out on that block.

I really wish the subway/psychic building would be torn down instead of those NICE old buildings to the west. What the hell are people thinking? ugh.. Perfect opportunity to get rid of some shit buildings (subway one) and keep the good ones (i.e. the one with Corepower in it), but nope, the other way around of course..

Wow, that is really bad news about the old buildings. I hate subway even more now.

[Chicago_Forever]

Does this mean that "maple and Ash" building is dead? Also are we knocking down that row of buildings immediately west of this lot? That would suck.


It would be really sad to see those two beautiful little old buildings to the west go. However, if you look carefully at the rendering, you can slightly see the building with the big bay windows is still there. So, I hope this means we'll at least get to see that one building get saved.

[Steely Dan]

That far north the river is just a small overgrown creek. It's not scenic or attractive to look at. I don't see what the appeal is.
I disagree. it's a really fun place to explore via kayak. so peaceful and calm, it's easy to forget you're in the middle of a giant metropolis.

the pics below were all taken on the north branch between belmont and foster.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6868/c5x8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/c5x8.jpg/)
source: me

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6150/0mex.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/0mex.jpg/)
source: me

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2824/v7y6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/v7y6.jpg/)
source: me

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9397/i29c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/i29c.jpg/)
source: me

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8590/9oy.JPG (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/9oy.JPG/)
source: me

[nomarandlee]

That far north the river is just a small overgrown creek. It's not scenic or attractive to look at. I don't see what the appeal is. Lake Michigan is much more scenic.
Much can be done with a small river or creek. Size is really overrated IMO. A smaller creek/river can feel more intimate and tranquil. Just look at the San Antonio river walk (though I don't suggest we dare commercialize that portion of the river). Look at the great residential development over the last 10 years along the Milwaukee River in the near North side of Milwaukee near the OakLeaf Trail.

Waterways are generally an aesthetic and recreational asset and it should be old hat now by now that it's poor planning to turn our collective backs on such waterways and not treat them as assets to be engaged and utilized when practically possible.

[ardecila]

All new projects are required to have a 30' setback from the river to allow for future riverwalk construction. I don't see the problem with a business that's essentially a private recreational facility. Hell, it looks like the dome will even come down in summers and turn into a park-like open-air soccer field.

[marothisu]

I have kayaked the river before starting near Lane Tech and Gordon Tech up to about Foster. Now, I wouldn't say it's THE most beautiful in the world, but it's true that parts of it going north are pretty quiet and tranquil, and not crappy. I have to say the old water reclamation facility or whatever it is up there is fairly interesting too.

[Steely Dan]

I have kayaked the river before starting near Lane Tech and Gordon Tech up to about Foster. Now, I wouldn't say it's THE most beautiful in the world, but it's true that parts of it going north are pretty quiet and tranquil, and not crappy.
exactly. it's not the colorado river flowing through the grand canyon or anything like that, but it's still a really cool area of the river, tucked away and unknown to 99% of chicagoans. and more importantly, it is a natural asset that the city could take far greater advantage of.




I have to say the old water reclamation facility or whatever it is up there is fairly interesting too.
yeah, it is pretty cool. i wish we still lived in a society that cared about making utilitarian infrastructure beautiful like this. in today's world, it would have been VE'd six ways from sunday.


http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7278/rwoy.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/rwoy.jpg/)
source: me

[LouisVanDerWright]

The nice thing about that soccer plan is that it marks the first southward expansion of greenspace along the river in a long long time. The river from California Park north has a bike path and various parks pretty much non-stop to Wilmette. If we can find a way to string together river walks and small parks (whether they are private or public) between downtown and California park, we will have added yet another amazing public amenity unique to Chicago.

If you read the Crains article, one of the images is an overhead that shows the location of the soccer fields with the proposed pedestrian flyover and river walk extension from California Park we saw a while ago. This could be the missing link needed to extend all of the bike paths south from California Park to Clark Park at which point there would only be a few miles of river remaining between there and downtown almost all of which is lined by industrial uses which are FAR easier to work with than hundreds of small residential owners. Perhaps the can coordinate with the Park District and the Lathrop homes redevelopment to link all three projects together and extend the path all the way to Damen in one swoop.


At that point things would start getting really interesting because something of a river path already extends from Damen down to that fucking awesome lift bridge just West of Ashland with the huge concrete counter weights on it. It would be very inexpensive to do some minor improvements to that existing path and, before you know it, we have a decent bike path from Wilmette to Ashland with what? A handful of grade crossings with streets?

And once you are to Ashland then you are literally around the bend from where the Bloomindale line crosses the river to the Finkle Site which, as we all know, is about to be vacant and will probably be developed. As I mentioned a while ago, I have heard multiple rumors that the city may break the PMD on Finkle to allow for mixed use redevelopment which will obviously be required to incorporate a river walk. I am being incredibly optimistic here, but maybe they can include a requirement or some TIF funds to extend Bloomingdale Trail across the river and you'd be able to bike from Ridgeway and Bloomingdale to where the north side channel meets the lake without crossing a street at grade more than 5-10 times at most.

Between there and downtown things get much more tricky as the industrial uses get more intense and dense, but I think making that last jump should be a top priority for the city and they should use eminent domain to force industrial users to allow for a bike path through their properties. The problem there is that many businesses have active barge docks (like the scrap yards) and would need to relocate if those were taken from them. Ideally at the Finkle site the path would cross to the West side of the river via the awesome Bloomindale swing bridge and continue along that side of the river until Goose Island.


Obviously this is a long term plan, but now that Bloomingdale Trail in under construction (and they are moving FAST on that project, I drove by it several times recently) the city should be starting to plan the big pathway project and I really thing a north branch path should be it. The completion of a bike path connecting with the to-be-constructed river walk downtown would essentially be a second LSD path added to our city. It would also dwarf any other river walk in the world in terms of scale and interconnectability. Eventually it could be extended into the South Branch and hook up with a potential high-lining of the St. Charles Air Line which would allow a second connection (after the main branch riverwalk) to the LSD path.

The ultimate goal of Bloomingdale Trail and the City of Chicago should be to create a series of grade separated bike and pedestrian ROW's that essentially endow Chicago with what is essentially the lovechild of the High Line and San Antonio Riverwalk. This project is a massive wet-dream for me, but something that I can see becoming a reality over the next 10-20 years. It would be something absolutely no other city on earth can come close to offering especially because our unique geography and history make it relatively easy to do since the whole city is flat and nearly all of the streets have been raised significantly above grade allowing below grade underpasses for pedestrian and bike traffic to be built at very low cost compared to most similar projects.

I know I am going overboard here, but I would also love to see private interests be allowed to embrace the river more fully. It is high time we allow more docks and moorings for private craft along the river. I would love to see a future where the whole river is lined with river walks that actively engage private businesses as if it were a retail street just as much as a recreation path. They have made some good progress along the main branch, but once they are able to connect with the North Branch path I can see enough thru traffic on the path to drive significant demand for retail along the river. I would love to see periodic bars, restaurants, cafes, and a bike shop or two opening up along the north branch of the river. These restaurants could be allowed mooring rights along the river wall as well so that yachts (and hell, pontoon boats which I'll explain later) can come in off the lake to patronize the businesses in addition to pedestrian and bike traffic.

I would love to buy the old Fisk Station in Pilsen and redevelop it as a marina and mixed use housing/office/retail complex. The barge slip at Fisk is large enough to accommodate several hundred small craft if you added a few smaller slips off the side of it and I can see daily pontoon rentals (a la the guided party boats on the river in Milwaukee) being wildly profitable and popular. Can you imagine if you had a whole eco system of businesses up and down the river that could be accessed by bike, boat, car, foot, bus, train, etc.? It would turn Chicago into f@cking Venice. The river would no longer be the forgotten drainage ditch it has been since we first started raising the streets, it would be just as much an active part of the city as Milwaukee Ave or Clark Street. It's also not as if there is no precedent for such businesses and such a model. Milwaukee already does the boat thing on a smaller scale and works extremely well. We already have a whole array of tour boats and water taxis here. Another amenity we should push for is for Chicago to grab one of the industrial sites with a barge slip along the river and turn it into a marina just like the ones along the lake. That would help drive even more boat traffic into our river system. Yachts already venture into the Chicago river off the lake to give themselves a private tour of downtown, what if we gave them reason to venture past Wolf Point for a dinner or just a beer?

I have been brooding over this idea for a while and actively want to try to grab Fisk when it comes on the market and try to execute on the marina idea. I have seen it work in Milwaukee and I have seen it work on various river systems and chains of lakes in Wisconsin. There is a huge cottage industry for this on the Fox/Wolf river system in Northern Wisconsin that I've seen multiple times while vacationing in WI. If you travel from Green Bay South to Lake Winnebago and then up the Wolf River you can literally drive a massive, Lake Michigan sized, yacht for about 100 miles and the entire length of the route is lined with supper clubs, bars, marinas, restaurants, and even hotels that will let you moor your boat if you patronize their services. I went up there this summer and spent a week on a houseboat traveling those rivers and lakes and it was freaking awesome. My friends and I just cruised around all day barhopping on a freaking boat and pulling in at the various sand bars and party coves to hang out with the other boats. Obviously that scale is greater than what we could do in Chicago, but we have a lot more people boating in a lot smaller area in Chicago which means we could turn our river into an even more ridiculously enjoyable pleasure cruise than what even Wisconsin can offer.


/Rant

TLDR: Let's connect the bike path all the way to Bloomingdale Trail, then to the Loop, then to the St. Charles Air Line which we'll turn into another Bloomingdale Trail. Then let's encourage businesses to set up shop along those trails and allow them to have docks along the river (parallel parking style) so that boats can come in off the lake and cruise the river patronizing those businesses. Tell me if I am crazy, but I think it sounds fucking awesome.

Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized.

Time to channel Burnham and build a badass urban amenity for the 21st century.

[Vlajos]

I disagree. it's a really fun place to explore via kayak. so peaceful and calm, it's easy to forget you're in the middle of a giant metropolis.

the pics below were all taken on the north branch between belmont and foster.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6868/c5x8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/c5x8.jpg/)
source: me

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6150/0mex.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/0mex.jpg/)
source: me

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2824/v7y6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/v7y6.jpg/)
source: me

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9397/i29c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/i29c.jpg/)
source: me

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8590/9oy.JPG (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/9oy.JPG/)
source: me

Much can be done with a small river or creek. Size is really overrated IMO. A smaller creek/river can feel more intimate and tranquil. Just look at the San Antonio river walk (though I don't suggest we dare commercialize that portion of the river). Look at the great residential development over the last 10 years along the Milwaukee River in the near North side of Milwaukee near the OakLeaf Trail.

Waterways are generally an aesthetic and recreational asset and it should be old hat now by now that it's poor planning to turn our collective backs on such waterways and not treat them as assets to be engaged and utilized when practically possible.

I have kayaked the river before starting near Lane Tech and Gordon Tech up to about Foster. Now, I wouldn't say it's THE most beautiful in the world, but it's true that parts of it going north are pretty quiet and tranquil, and not crappy. I have to say the old water reclamation facility or whatever it is up there is fairly interesting too.

exactly. it's not the colorado river flowing through the grand canyon or anything like that, but it's still a really cool area of the river, tucked away and unknown to 99% of chicagoans. and more importantly, it is a natural asset that the city could take far greater advantage of.





yeah, it is pretty cool. i wish we still lived in a society that cared about making utilitarian infrastructure beautiful like this. in today's world, it would have been VE'd six ways from sunday.


http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7278/rwoy.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/rwoy.jpg/)
source: me

These are all good points.

[the urban politician]

^ Did you really need to do that, Vlajos? :rolleyes:

[Vlajos]

^ Did you really need to do that, Vlajos? :rolleyes:

I felt it was necessary. The comment that these replied too was odd to me. My response would not have been kind.

[wierdaaron]

This might be the tallest page of this thread without any building pics in it.

[Chi-Sky21]

I like LouisVanDerWrights idea about the old Fisk station, that is to prime of a riverfront location to let go of. I have always thought a chain of parks along the south branch using an extended Ping Tom Park, Fisk and then extending down to the old grain silos at Damen would be easy to create myself. I am not as familiar with the north branch but your plan sounded ok. 8)

[marothisu]

British School South Loop campus to open by September 2015. Groundbreaking is supposed to happen in February

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20131216/south-loop/british-school-announces-september-2015-opening-for-south-loop-campus

[wierdaaron]

British School South Loop campus to open by September 2015. Groundbreaking is supposed to happen in February

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20131216/south-loop/british-school-announces-september-2015-opening-for-south-loop-campus

That McClendon guy quoted in the article sounds real hard to please ;).

[Baronvonellis]

I've seen the river and I just really don't find the river on the north side attractive at all. Lots of shit and trash in the water, it's disgusting. Maybe I'm spoiled growing up in Florida. With crystal clear spring fed rivers, where you can see all the way to the bottom.

[marothisu]

I've seen the river and I just really don't find the river on the north side attractive at all. Lots of shit and trash in the water, it's disgusting. Maybe I'm spoiled growing up in Florida. With crystal clear spring fed rivers, where you can see all the way to the bottom.

Nah that's not spoiled. It's not amazing, it doesn't have mountains on the side and it's not crystal clear, but it's not complete shit either. It's been about 2-3 years since I kayaked on it, so perhaps that area just filled up with trash? I remember one part in particular that DID have trash in it, but otherwise it was pretty free from man-made debris. Also, you're talking to a guy who has stayed on nearly uninhabited islands in SE Asia and Caribbean with crystal clear water and ridiculous beauty. Maybe I'm just easy to please?

[Steely Dan]

I've seen the river and I just really don't find the river on the north side attractive at all. Lots of shit and trash in the water, it's disgusting. Maybe I'm spoiled growing up in Florida. With crystal clear spring fed rivers, where you can see all the way to the bottom.

you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but my guess is that's it's a minority one (especially given your rather obscure point of reference that crystal clear florida spring water rivers are the only kind that can be nice), because all of the people that i have personally taken on the river have always reacted with "holy shit, this is so awesome! i had no idea this has been right in my back yard all of these years". it's typically an eye-opening experience for chicagoans who have been trained to view the river as nothing more than an open sewer for generations now.

as to your point about the river being polluted, it doesn't have to be that way. if more chicagoans were exposed to how nice the river is by having greater access to it, perhaps we could bring greater political pressure to bear to improve it even more than the great strides it's already made over the past several decades. MWRD water sterilization is coming, and that will further help the water quality issues of the river. 40 years ago, the river was dead; a toxic lifeless cesspool. today there's now something like 3 or 4 dozen species of fish in the river. when i'm out kayaking, i see beavers, muskrats, turtles, and multitudes of different water fowl species. it's a veritable wildlife haven that cuts right through the urban city.

and if we continue to work to make it better, it will get better! mother nature is one hell of a resilient woman!


sorry for getting on the soap box, but as an avid river kayaker i'm quite passionate about the chicago river.

[Pilton]

There is much more posturing than performance when it comes to fulfilling the promise of conserving the natural habitat or cleaning up the Chicago River. There are competing interests at work on the River and there has been no consistency of focus by the City or the MWRD.

Overall, much, much better than it was, IMO. Not a sewer. But, not the Weeki-Wachie Springs. And, there are certainly neglected and un-tended places all along the River.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

I think I had a similar surprise in my reaction.

I wouldn't go nearly so far as to say that I like it. I might say - of all the shitty, clumsy, neo-re-trad-trash-leaning junk slung about out in da wards, my vomit didn't quite exit my mouth in full, frozen-rope projectile fashion this morning........it was perhaps something more than a dribble, but the rendered design at hand was not quite stomach-churning enough to manage something tremendously more impressively crowd-pleasing than that....

Also, does it not floor anybody else that this Mark McKinney, Marty Parish Sedgwick lackey/hackey is on the IIT (note - I got the letters right - not ITT.....that's IIT) payroll? Seriously? And, wtf?!

Okay, in my defense, something like this (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=chicago+il&ll=41.910552,-87.672675&spn=0.001413,0.00189&hnear=Chicago,+Cook,+Illinois&gl=us&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=41.910555,-87.672591&panoid=-Oe7NMYZOA610UGaPi1USw&cbp=12,132.07,,0,-14.3) is my point of reference.

[denizen467]

Speaking of the Riverview / Lane Tech area, an entire campus building was just levelled at the DeVry campus. It was on the nw corner of Melrose and Campbell; according to Google Maps it was for their Keller school. They must have relocated somewhere else. Anyone know what the future of the site is? Another soccer field would be welcome.

[harryc]

There is much more posturing than performance when it comes to fulfilling the promise of conserving the natural habitat or cleaning up the Chicago River. There are competing interests at work on the River and there has been no consistency of focus by the City or the MWRD.

Overall, much, much better than it was, IMO. Not a sewer. But, not the Weeki-Wachie Springs. And, there are certainly neglected and un-tended places all along the River.

Not a simple question - Natural requires a much larger footprint than even the Desplaines forest preserves offer. While we sit and debate some are busy as ....

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-csYVc_VhOW4/UrBNxYnBeqI/AAAAAAAB1jQ/Onvl4aCAPKE/w958-h325-no/P1240512.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-61ZM0-uz1xA/UrBN-GKuYQI/AAAAAAAB1jc/VZbCVl0DCb8/w749-h562-no/IMG_0266.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IAIHvaoOwhg/UrBN_BcLfoI/AAAAAAAB1jg/DDezXzBXRtQ/w749-h562-no/IMG_0272.JPG

Thatcher woods - Chicago ave / First Ave / Thatcher ave

[marothisu]

"Big" Development coming to Wicker Park? Anybody in the area, there is a meeting tonight at 1425 N Damen complete with a rendering. Would love to see what this guy has in store for this. He needs a zoning change for it to happen.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20131217/wicker-park/30-transit-oriented-apartments-could-be-coming-wicker-parks-main-hub

Brian Goldberg of LG Development confirmed Monday that he hopes to buy five properties at 1643-57 N. Milwaukee Ave.

He plans 30 new apartments and 9,400 square feet of retail storefront to replace a car wash, shuttered restaurant, a century-old office building and a small parking lot.

Occupants of the buildings include 1-on-1 Fitness at 1643 N. Milwaukee, a restaurant that once housed the shuttered Mado restaurant at 1647 N. Milwaukee Ave., a parking lot adjacent to a Wash Express Car Wash and the car wash itself at 1657 N. Milwaukee Ave.


Calling the apartments "a cool concept," Goldberg said the building would have bike parking and "encourage leasing to tenants who use public transportation and do not have cars."

Seeking approval to change the zoning from a manufacturing district to a B-3-3 residential shopping district, Goldberg plans to present a proposal to the Wicker Park Committee's Preservation Development's Subcommittee's meeting at 7 p.m. Tuesday in the park field house, 1425 N. Damen Ave.

[tintinex]

"Big" Development coming to Wicker Park? Anybody in the area, there is a meeting tonight at 1425 N Damen complete with a rendering. Would love to see what this guy has in store for this. He needs a zoning change for it to happen.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20131217/wicker-park/30-transit-oriented-apartments-could-be-coming-wicker-parks-main-hub

This had me really excited until this:

Designed by the architectural firm Antunovich Associates...

[J_M_Tungsten]

^bummer, but I'll take it. New growth will promote new growth.

Also at Chicago and Lasalle (SW corner):
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/New%20pics/2E2578BC-D2FF-4887-9661-290D1CACC730.jpg (http://s592.photobucket.com/user/JMTUNGSTEN/media/New%20pics/2E2578BC-D2FF-4887-9661-290D1CACC730.jpg.html)
Think Simple. A Coffee, Tea, and Pastry place. Any coffee, tea, or pastry folks know anything about this place? Google can't seem to find it either, or I can't.

[VivaLFuego]

Speaking of our favoritest alderthing, Reilly's recent newsletter proudly boasts of the ordinance he introduced to downzone the Village Theater/Elly's site at Clark & North from B3-5 to B3-3. I can't tell if that already passed, or if it will be on the next meeting agenda - can any one confirm?

Good thing too, since my favorite neighborhood amenities are the deteriorating eyesore of a closed theater, a consistently mediocre and disappointing pancake house, and that polish passport photo storefront.

[marothisu]

Looks like ADM is expected to move the HQ to Chicago. Announcement to come tomorrow (Wednesday). No more tech center, but they're moving without tax incentives which is huge. Now, which building will they move to?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-adm-headquarters-chicago-20131217,0,2066153.story

[wierdaaron]

Without tax incentives? Then what did they get?

This would be a good way to draw attention to River Point.

[marothisu]

Without tax incentives? Then what did they get?

This would be a good way to draw attention to River Point.


Maybe someone got real with them. While the River Point thing would be cool, they will be moving far before that 2017 opening date of River Point. Of course, they could always move there later..

This is a pretty big win for Chicago and it'll just show other companies looking to relocate that Chicago is a good choice. Just a continuing trend. I hope this causes other big companies who are looking to relocate to consider Chicago even more strongly.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Looks like ADM is expected to move the HQ to Chicago. Announcement to come tomorrow (Wednesday). No more tech center, but they're moving without tax incentives which is huge. Now, which building will they move to?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-adm-headquarters-chicago-20131217,0,2066153.story

Without tax incentives? Then what did they get?

This would be a good way to draw attention to River Point.

Maybe someone got real with them. While the River Point thing would be cool, they will be moving far before that 2017 opening date of River Point. Of course, they could always move there later..

This is a pretty big win for Chicago and it'll just show other companies looking to relocate that Chicago is a good choice. Just a continuing trend. I hope this causes other big companies who are looking to relocate to consider Chicago even more strongly.

FYI we have a separate thread for discussing Chicago business:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=144988

[marothisu]

^ I had no idea. Thanks and very good!

[markh9]

FYI we have a separate thread for discussing Chicago business:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=144988

It's been asked many times before, but can that thread be merged with all the other Chicago P&C threads? I never make it over to the Economic thread since it's tucked away from my SSP bookmark.

On another note, I'm supremely curious about what's going in at the old Skewerz space under the Damen Blue Line. All I saw online was a half million dollar built-out permit. Anyone know what's going on?

[marothisu]

On another note, I'm supremely curious about what's going in at the old Skewerz space under the Damen Blue Line. All I saw online was a half million dollar built-out permit. Anyone know what's going on?

Stan's Donuts which is a donut shop right outside of the UCLA campus that was once named the #1 donuts in America is going in there (along with the ability to get coffee). My grandma's cousin was neighbors with the owner - I remember getting some free donuts and they were delicious. The peanut butter, banana, chocolate chip donut is really great. They may have even started a mini chain since the last time I had them. Something I didn't catch the first time is that (a) They'll be open late (great news) and (b) they'll probably open a second location in Streeterville later next year or early 2015.

It's been a long time and I can't wait to have these again. Thanks for reminding me :)

http://chicago.eater.com/archives/2013/07/08/las-stans-donuts-in-partnership-with-labriola-coming-to-wicker-park.php

[george]

Another blurb:
Stan's Donuts will be moving into the former Skewerz restaurant space at 1560 N. Damen Ave.
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130710/wicker-park/wicker-park-doughnut-wars-coffee-wars-brewing-around-damen-l-stop

[markh9]

Wow - missed that completely. Great to read - and really excited to give 'em a shot.

From the outside, looks like the space is definitely coming along...wonder if they'll open before spring?

Next up at that intersection: Coyote Hotel! Looking forward to that more so than most of the proposed projects in the city.

[ardecila]

The Trib is reporting that CPS will move its offices to 1 N Dearborn (the Sears flagship w/the Argo Tea). They have already retained a consultant to help them sell their current building.

I'm glad CPS will be putting that building back into private ownership... Hopefully it can be restored from its current sorry state. It might make a good hotel. I don't see it working for offices and the location is weird for residential. I won't shed any tears if a replacement is planned either.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

It's been asked many times before, but can that thread be merged with all the other Chicago P&C threads? I never make it over to the Economic thread since it's tucked away from my SSP bookmark.

That would be most helpful. You can also create a list of subscribed threads in the QUICK LINKS drop down menu. That's how I keep my Chicago threads consolidated.

[denizen467]

The Ferragamo flagship store (Erie & Michigan) facade was fully unveiled/uncovered the other night. It follows the momentum of Burberry, on the same block, of having lots of illuminated elements embedded into a facade that extends at least a couple floors up. It's interesting that retailers (and landlords) have finally gotten ambitious enough that they'll completely reclad the bottom couple floors of a skyscraper if the existing streetside look would be just too generic.

On a more macro level though, it's a little odd how this shrimpy, dozen-story building (645 North Michigan) is still going strong while properties like Realtors, at 25 stories, are worthy of a teardown.

[Skyguy_7]

The Trib is reporting that CPS will move its offices to 1 N Dearborn (the Sears flagship w/the Argo Tea).

Working as a contractor for CPS, I'm in their current building often. I've never felt inspired walking through the lobby and the floor plans are nothing to be excited about. Though I enjoy almost any pre-war building, definitely won't miss this one.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

The Ferragamo flagship store (Erie & Michigan) facade was fully unveiled/uncovered the other night. It follows the momentum of Burberry, on the same block, of having lots of illuminated elements embedded into a facade that extends at least a couple floors up. It's interesting that retailers (and landlords) have finally gotten ambitious enough that they'll completely reclad the bottom couple floors of a skyscraper if the existing streetside look would be just too generic.

As the saying goes, pics or it didn't happen.

On a more macro level though, it's a little odd how this shrimpy, dozen-story building (645 North Michigan) is still going strong while properties like Realtors, at 25 stories, are worthy of a teardown.

These particular examples make me happy though. The design of 645 North Michigan is much more palatable than the mutilated Realtor Building.

[BB 1871]

Working as a contractor for CPS, I'm in their current building often. I've never felt inspired walking through the lobby and the floor plans are nothing to be excited about. Though I enjoy almost any pre-war building, definitely won't miss this one.

Are they not in the Marquette building?

[lu9]

Long time lurker..

Figured it was time for a post as I attended the neighborhood meeting last night and snapped a few photos.http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p708/scottnovack/photo1-1643-57nMil_zps1c6712ef.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/scottnovack/media/photo1-1643-57nMil_zps1c6712ef.jpg.html)

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p708/scottnovack/photo2-1643-57nMil_zps73e90153.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/scottnovack/media/photo2-1643-57nMil_zps73e90153.jpg.html)

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p708/scottnovack/photo3-1643-57nMil_zps35f1901b.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/scottnovack/media/photo3-1643-57nMil_zps35f1901b.jpg.html)

[george]

Thanks for that update, lu9, and welcome. Certainly not inspired but a much needed improvement for the stretch of Milwaukee Ave. As well, it will lead to further development directly to the west.

[AlexanderRek]

Wow. Although I did not attend the meeting, this looks like a great improvement from the proposals of the past. Think about how far Bucktown / Wicker Park has come since the boom years when these proposals had splitface block side walls and cheap brick facades. Are the store fronts going to be cast iron? Are we finally starting to see developers attempt to emulate some of the designs being built in the Meat Packing, Tribeca, and Soho areas of NYC?

[wierdaaron]

Are they not in the Marquette building?
Close. Same block, right next door. 125 S Clark. Marquette is owned by the MacArthur Foundation and it seems like they've done a good job restoring and preserving it.

[Buckman821]

Long time lurker..

Figured it was time for a post as I attended the neighborhood meeting last night and snapped a few photos.http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p708/scottnovack/photo1-1643-57nMil_zps1c6712ef.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/scottnovack/media/photo1-1643-57nMil_zps1c6712ef.jpg.html)

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p708/scottnovack/photo2-1643-57nMil_zps73e90153.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/scottnovack/media/photo2-1643-57nMil_zps73e90153.jpg.html)

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p708/scottnovack/photo3-1643-57nMil_zps35f1901b.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/scottnovack/media/photo3-1643-57nMil_zps35f1901b.jpg.html)

It's hard to tell from these images. Is the historic building at 1643 biting the dust? That would really be a shame - it could be a real looker with a cornice restoration.

From the images it almost looks like its half there. Was this discussed in the meeting?

[marothisu]

Thanks for the photos! At first I was "meh" about the design, but upon looking more closely, I think it could look good if they use the right materials.

As to the question about the historic building at 1643, I think it's coming down if this goes through. I believe the 1-on-1 Fitness business referenced in the article is in that building. Interesting observation about the half building though. I wonder if that IS half of 1643..

[Buckman821]

Thanks for the photos! At first I was "meh" about the design, but upon looking more closely, I think it could look good if they use the right materials.

As to the question about the historic building at 1643, I think it's coming down if this goes through. I believe the 1-on-1 Fitness business referenced in the article is in that building. Interesting observation about the half building though. I wonder if that IS half of 1643..

Ugh, what a load of crap. The neighborhood groups should demand the preservation of the building and allow them to stuff the remaining square footage on the other lots they acquired - but what do I know?

[Jibba]

Why can't architects design a proper first floor? They are always so grossly over-scaled or, in this case, needlessly monumental. Those giant arch/canopy things over the entrances are much too large and heavy-handed looking. Thankfully, the rest of the building forgoes any overwrought things (looks like it, anyway...).

[marothisu]

Ugh, what a load of crap. The neighborhood groups should demand the preservation of the building and allow them to stuff the remaining square footage on the other lots they acquired - but what do I know?

I agree the 1643 building could look decently nice with some good restoration work. In the end, it's a balance of money and what the developer wants to do. I think the problem is the existing building doesn't support the number of units or size of retail/commercial for the developer. Restoring the building, building something next to it and attaching them would cost a bit still, too.

Luckily upon looking more closely at the renderings, it doesn't look like complete shit. I like the stuff used on the first floor and it does look more like cast iron which would be pretty cool.

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ Speaking of buildings that look good with a thorough restoration: has anyone else noticed what they are doing that 3 story building on the West side of Damen just North of the Blue Line? They have completely restored the facade including complete tuckpointing, the installation of a brand new ornate copper cornice, and completely new storefront facade system. The building absolutely shines already and they are still working on it. There must be something awesome slated to go in there. Or is that the space the donut shop is going into? Whatever is going on it looks absolutely awesome. Now we just need them to finish the Coyote Hotel project and put the cornice back on the Ohm building on the NE corner and the entire Milwaukee/Damen/North intersection will be essentially brand new.

[marothisu]

^ Can't think of what building you're talking about. How far north of the Damen Blue Line stop is it?

Turning that Coyote building into a boutique hotel would be great. Anybody hear anything else about it since news first broke a few months ago?

[LouisVanDerWright]

^ Can't think of what building you're talking about. How far north of the Damen Blue Line stop is it?

Turning that Coyote building into a boutique hotel would be great. Anybody hear anything else about it since news first broke a few months ago?

Literally the first building North of the Blue Line tracks on the West side of Damen. If you look on streetview you will see what it used to look like with a chunk of the battered old cornice missing.

[marothisu]

Literally the first building North of the Blue Line tracks on the West side of Damen. If you look on streetview you will see what it used to look like with a chunk of the battered old cornice missing.

Gotcha. Yep, that's the building Stan's Donuts is going into. I'm going to have to take a look at it again next time I'm in the area. Thanks for the tip :)

I like the fact they're going in there. Not only because I love their donuts, but also because they plan to stay open late. I know the one near UCLA is open until midnight every night and 1am on the weekends. I don't know why I'm so obsessed with late night things, but perhaps because I love vibrancy and don't like to see a city shut down early :)

[schwerve]

^^^ Speaking of buildings that look good with a thorough restoration: has anyone else noticed what they are doing that 3 story building on the West side of Damen just North of the Blue Line? They have completely restored the facade including complete tuckpointing, the installation of a brand new ornate copper cornice, and completely new storefront facade system. The building absolutely shines already and they are still working on it. There must be something awesome slated to go in there.

http://chicagoathleticclubs.com/bucktown-athletic-club-opening-soon/

[marothisu]

In other news, it looks as if the land/gas station directly west of The Maxwell project on Canal just south of Roosevelt has been bought by the same developer for $7.5 million. No clue what they'll do here, but considering The Maxwell abandoned plans for 430 apartments? It would be cool if this new site was residential with a few hundred units.

[marothisu]

http://chicagoathleticclubs.com/bucktown-athletic-club-opening-soon/

Not the same building. He's talking about one on Damen just north of the Blue Line stop, which is the old Skewerz spot and where Stan's Donuts is currently building out its place.

Nonetheless, it's good for the neighborhood on what you posted.

[wierdaaron]

In other news, it looks as if the land/gas station directly west of The Maxwell project on Canal just south of Roosevelt has been bought by the same developer for $7.5 million. No clue what they'll do here, but considering The Maxwell abandoned plans for 430 apartments? It would be cool if this new site was residential with a few hundred units.
That's north of Roosevelt. I guess the block you're talking about is the one bordered by Clinton, Jefferson, DeKoven, and Grenshaw.

It would be cool if they used that for their aborted apartment tower plans, but if they wanted to go with apartments again why wouldn't they plop them on top of the Maxwell like they always intended? What benefit would putting them across the street have? Other than slowly chipping away at the pedestrian-unfriendliness of that area, a certainly noble cause.

[jc5680]

In other news, it looks as if the land/gas station directly west of The Maxwell project on Canal just south of Roosevelt has been bought by the same developer for $7.5 million. No clue what they'll do here, but considering The Maxwell abandoned plans for 430 apartments? It would be cool if this new site was residential with a few hundred units.

Crains says it is just retail:


Another retail project in the works near Roosevelt Road
By: Alby Gallun December 18, 2013

JRG Capital Partners is starting to court tenants for retail project on this South Loop site.

With one big retail development under construction near the Roosevelt Road shopping strip, Chicago-based investor JRG Capital Partners LLC plans another on a site across the street.

A JRG venture paid $7.5 million earlier this month for the property at 1113 S. Jefferson St., immediately west of the Maxwell, a 230,000-square-foot shopping center being built by a venture including the Bond Cos., a Chicago-based developer, Cook County records show.

Full Article (http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20131218/CRED03/131219775/another-retail-project-in-the-works-near-roosevelt-road?r=2661H0047245H8W#)

[kemachs]

Crains says it is just retail:

I know it's expected and status-quo for the area, but this is still so fucking annoying. There's no reason why there shouldn't be an effort to mix residential in with these new projects, and both of these seem like lost opportunities to make the neighborhood a little better. And yeah.. EVENTUALLY this can be torn down and replaced with something else when the market supports it, but first there needs to be trends in that direction. The original Maxwell proposal was a great chance to go there.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Not the same building. He's talking about one on Damen just north of the Blue Line stop, which is the old Skewerz spot and where Stan's Donuts is currently building out its place.

Nonetheless, it's good for the neighborhood on what you posted.

Exactly, the old Marvin Envelope building conversion to the fitness club is a great redevelopment too. The new boom is really starting to work its way out into the neighborhoods.

[marothisu]

Crains says it is just retail:

Ah damn you're right. I was hoping for residential. Maybe it can be something mixed use..

[marothisu]

Exactly, the old Marvin Envelope building conversion to the fitness club is a great redevelopment too. The new boom is really starting to work its way out into the neighborhoods.

Wicker Park/Bucktown has some small retail stuff going on like what's been mentioned here already lately like the food stuff (plus rick bayless, Paul Kahan expansion, Cheesie's, etc), the new proposal from last night, the building permit being issued for those 17-3 bedroom condos on North & Hermitage last week, etc.

The area south in UK Village/East Village seems to have a ton of new residential construction going on.


Also, anyone have any info on this? It's a building permit from 10/15 for $1.3 million for 1755 N Damen. This was/is IHSP Hostel's more upscale option in the neighborhood and it's right next to the Bloomingdale Trail. The space in the rear they talk about is a parking lot. I wonder if any work has begun on this.

"INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS, NEW 4 STORY ADDITION AT REAR, EXISITNG HOTEL TO BE DECONVERTED TO 10 DWELLING UNITS ON 2ND THRU 4TH FLOOR, RETAIL SPACES ON 1ST FLOOR AND SITE WORK AS PER PLANS."

[k1052]

I know it's expected and status-quo for the area, but this is still so fucking annoying. There's no reason why there shouldn't be an effort to mix residential in with these new projects, and both of these seem like lost opportunities to make the neighborhood a little better. And yeah.. EVENTUALLY this can be torn down and replaced with something else when the market supports it, but first there needs to be trends in that direction. The original Maxwell proposal was a great chance to go there.

The city doesn't want any residential there. I'm pretty much fine with it being just a retail strip since it's sandwiched between the railyard, warehouses (that are being torn down for datacenters), highways and light industrial uses.

[marothisu]

The city doesn't want any residential there. I'm pretty much fine with it being just a retail strip since it's sandwiched between the railyard, warehouses (that are being torn down for datacenters), highways and light industrial uses.

Personally I think the area is OK. It's not a more independent retail section of town like a River North, Lincoln Park, etc but it's in no way a hellish location to live in I'd think.

First of all, the Red/Orange/Green Line (Roosevelt stop) is probably 3/4 mile away. Probably about a 5-7 minute bus ride or 15 minute walk. It's probably even less of a walk to the Blue line, or if you're lazy you can take a bus a few blocks to get close to it.

Not to mention UIC's campus is like 1-2 blocks away and you could market residential to them too. I'm not a fan of most of the following national chain places, but it's still in no way absolute hell. There is some immediate food around there (i.e. Manny's, White Palace Grill which is 24/7, etc) and even more on Halsted around UIC and also just a little north in Greektown. Then there's the Best Buy/Home Depot building on Roosevelt and across from The Maxwell is a World Market and Whole Foods. It's only about 1/3 a mile from the Roosevelt Collection, which is finally getting tenants (and not all national chains) and the movie theater there is actually good.

I can certainly see the argument for things, but in my opinion it wouldn't be the worst area for apartments. Plus, if you did that, it would probably spur other businesses to open up near there especially if there was an influx of a few hundred more permanent residents to the area quickly. The basic needs stuff is already there. Whole Foods, World Market, and there's also a Dominick's which hopefully becomes either a Mariano's or Jewel. Also a Walgreens on Roosevelt. Electronics types of stuff with Best Buy and Gamestop, food as I already mentioned (there could be more though). The 12 bus runs a little after midnight but it's not terribly far from four train lines either and right near a few interstates. Movie theater not far away and some clothing stores (i.e. H&M, Haberdash, and I believe Akira soon. Also a Marshalls in that Whole Foods complex) at Roosevelt Collection. Then whatever might go into the Maxwell..

Probably a good area for people who've lived in a suburban environment all their lives to transition to city life. If a few more large scale residential projects were put in that area, I have no doubts it would attract more independent/local places to do business again and have a mix.

[kemachs]

The city doesn't want any residential there. I'm pretty much fine with it being just a retail strip since it's sandwiched between the railyard, warehouses (that are being torn down for datacenters), highways and light industrial uses.

Well so is/was the South Loop. Would you have preferred that to develop as a retail strip?

Since when does what the city "wants" correlate with how things should be developed from a planning perspective? There's a lot of zoning in this city that is obsolete and, IMO, inappropriate.

[Chi-Sky21]

I can't think of any residential building in that immediate area, you have head over the highway to the west or all the way north of 290, or over to the tracks to east or all the way over the tracks to the south to find any. I wouldn't want to really live there myself. Probably best to fill in the residential further west on Roosevelt past St. Ignatious. Or those open lots between Clark and the River.

[kemachs]

I agree the area is pretty desolate at the moment, but why should we consider it a lost cause? Most people on here had written off North/Clybourn as retail hell...but I'm encouraged by what's been happening up there lately.

I'm just upset that a developer wanted to set this area on the path (a slow path, admittedly) to a livable and walkable neighborhood, and they were basically given the one-finger salute. "This shall forever be a retail wasteland, how dare you propose otherwise."

[marothisu]

I can't think of any residential building in that immediate area, you have head over the highway to the west or all the way north of 290, or over to the tracks to east or all the way over the tracks to the south to find any. I wouldn't want to really live there myself. Probably best to fill in the residential further west on Roosevelt past St. Ignatious. Or those open lots between Clark and the River.

There are a few condo buildings a few blocks south of the Clinton Blue Line stop. Last time I was at the Maxwell Street Market I noticed them. Not many but there's one very notable one - I'd have to find it again on Google maps. Also, Halsted is less than 1/4 mile from Jefferson, so it's not as far as you make it sound. Yes you have to cross the interstate, but the UIC campus starts essentially right west of the freeway and it's basically the equivalent of about 1.5-2 city blocks away. Basically the same distance as the House of Blues is from the Grand Red Line stop.

[k1052]

Personally I think the area is OK. It's not a more independent retail section of town like a River North, Lincoln Park, etc but it's in no way a hellish location to live in I'd think.

First of all, the Red/Orange/Green Line (Roosevelt stop) is probably 3/4 mile away. Probably about a 5-7 minute bus ride or 15 minute walk. It's probably even less of a walk to the Blue line, or if you're lazy you can take a bus a few blocks to get close to it.

Not to mention UIC's campus is like 1-2 blocks away and you could market residential to them too. I'm not a fan of most of the following national chain places, but it's still in no way absolute hell. There is some immediate food around there (i.e. Manny's, White Palace Grill which is 24/7, etc) and even more on Halsted around UIC and also just a little north in Greektown. Then there's the Best Buy/Home Depot building on Roosevelt and across from The Maxwell is a World Market and Whole Foods. It's only about 1/3 a mile from the Roosevelt Collection, which is finally getting tenants (and not all national chains) and the movie theater there is actually good.

I can certainly see the argument for things, but in my opinion it wouldn't be the worst area for apartments. Plus, if you did that, it would probably spur other businesses to open up near there especially if there was an influx of a few hundred more permanent residents to the area quickly. The basic needs stuff is already there. Whole Foods, World Market, and there's also a Dominick's which hopefully becomes either a Mariano's or Jewel. Also a Walgreens on Roosevelt. Electronics types of stuff with Best Buy and Gamestop, food as I already mentioned (there could be more though). The 12 bus runs a little after midnight but it's not terribly far from four train lines either and right near a few interstates. Movie theater not far away and some clothing stores (i.e. H&M, Haberdash, and I believe Akira soon. Also a Marshalls in that Whole Foods complex) at Roosevelt Collection. Then whatever might go into the Maxwell..

Probably a good area for people who've lived in a suburban environment all their lives to transition to city life. If a few more large scale residential projects were put in that area, I have no doubts it would attract more independent/local places to do business again and have a mix.

I never said the area was hellish, it is however significantly less desirable considering other nearby options. Large blocks are already claimed by users that are going nowhere for the foreseeable future (ComEd, NT, USPS, Courts, CFD) and the remaining warehouse blocks are slowly converting to storage or data center use. Most of the area north of Grenshaw will not be developed into anything other than what it already is (or close to it) within our lifetimes. South of Roosevelt is already lost to big box retail and strip center with the balance being the UPS facility, the homeless shelter, and rail yard. I have yet to talk to any developer that has a burning desire to build resi down there and you wouldn't have even heard it with the Maxwell if not for the rental boom which appears to be slowing somewhat.

[Chi-Sky21]

No its not far to go over the highway, but my feeling is when you have those boundaries pretty much set by man made obstacles without having any residential in there already, why change? Industrial buildings and warehouses to the north and south , a cluster of shopping with horrible traffic on Roosevelt. Who would want to live there anyways! I used to live a few blocks west of there off Roosevelt, and i would rather just stay were it is more residential.

[k1052]

Well so is/was the South Loop. Would you have preferred that to develop as a retail strip?

Since when does what the city "wants" correlate with how things should be developed from a planning perspective? There's a lot of zoning in this city that is obsolete and, IMO, inappropriate.

I see no good planning case for residential in this corridor. Far from rail transit, cut off from most of the E-W-S street grid, isolated by natural and man made barriers on all sides, and full of users who have no incentive or interest in moving.

[marothisu]

I never said the area was hellish, it is however significantly less desirable considering other nearby options. Large blocks are already claimed by users that are going nowhere for the foreseeable future (ComEd, NT, USPS, Courts, CFD) and the remaining warehouse blocks are slowly converting to storage or data center use. Most of the area north of Grenshaw will not be developed into anything other than what it already is (or close to it) within our lifetimes. South of Roosevelt is already lost to big box retail and strip center with the balance being the UPS facility, the homeless shelter, and rail yard. I have yet to talk to any developer that has a burning desire to build resi down there and you wouldn't have even heard it with the Maxwell if not for the rental boom which appears to be slowing somewhat.

Sure, I completely agree it's less desirable than some other areas. However, it doesn't have to be like that. Nothing says that we have to keep putting a bunch of national chain retailers in there when new development happens and nothing else.

My point is that there is already the basic livable needs types of places that are there in the form of groceries, home goods, some clothing, convenience, electronics, and some restaurants. It's not far from a few major public transit points. If you did put some residential in there, and I think it would have to start small, people could still survive comfortably on a needs level just by walking around or taking public transit. If that was successful and more residential came, I have no doubts that it would spur other more locally based businesses to do stuff in that area.

While it's semi desolate, it's still very close to a major interstate, UIC, and the South Loop, which is easy enough to get to areas like the Loop, River North, West Loop, etc. Also close to the Orange and Blue lines for access to the airports. There's more than enough places to get basic amenities in that area and you have a number of choices too. While there's not tons of food places in the immediate area, there are some and some not too far away either especially if you head west, and north and west just a little bit.

[marothisu]

I see no good planning case for residential in this corridor. Far from rail transit, cut off from most of the E-W-S street grid, isolated by natural and man made barriers on all sides, and full of users who have no incentive or interest in moving.

I semi disagree about this point. Now, closer to Roosevelt is not RIGHT on the rail, but it's not much further than many other places. Let's do some math here.

Here are some distances for you, according to Google Maps:

* Roosevelt and Clinton to Clinton-Blue Line = 0.6 miles
* Roosevelt and Clinton to Roosevelt Red/Orange/Green = 0.7 miles

Now let's look at a few other areas:
* Grand & McClurg to Grand Red Line = 0.5 miles
* Addison & Lakeshore Drive to Addison Red = 0.5 miles


Of course, this isn't taking into account other streets that aren't a direct shot away. You could live on Lake Shore Dr & Cornelia and the distance to the red line would be the same as it is from Roosevelt/Clinton to the Red/Orange/Green Line stop (0.7 miles). If you lived in Erie or Ontario instead of Grand, it would basically be the same story with increasing distance being the same as this area we're talking about.

It's not like we're talking about Dunning, Montclare, Belmont Cragin, Beverly, Ashburn, etc here.

Also cut off from most of the EWS street grid? Last time I checked, it's on Roosevelt which easily leads to all the "downtown" main streets like State, Michigan, LaSalle, etc, it's right near Halsted, Ashland is not far away, all the N-S streets in that area (Jefferson, Desplaines, Clinton, and Canal) continue into the West Loop, and Canal goes south to streets like 16th, 18th, and Cermak/Archer. Not to mention that it's right near 90/94 and not terribly far from I-55.


Not saying it's uber desirable but the location is not terrible and contrary to popular belief, it's closer to trains than you give it credit for.

[k1052]

I semi disagree about this point. Now, closer to Roosevelt is not RIGHT on the rail, but it's not much further than many other places. Let's do some math here.

Here are some distances for you, according to Google Maps:

* Roosevelt and Clinton to Clinton-Blue Line = 0.6 miles
* Roosevelt and Clinton to Roosevelt Red/Orange/Green = 0.7 miles

Now let's look at a few other areas:
* Grand & McClurg to Grand Red Line = 0.5 miles
* Addison & Lakeshore Drive to Addison Red = 0.5 miles


Of course, this isn't taking into account other streets that aren't a direct shot away. You could live on Lake Shore Dr & Cornelia and the distance to the red line would be the same as it is from Roosevelt/Clinton to the Red/Orange/Green Line stop (0.7 miles). If you lived in Erie or Ontario instead of Grand, it would basically be the same story with increasing distance being the same as this area we're talking about.

It's not like we're talking about Dunning, Montclare, Belmont Cragin, Beverly, Ashburn, etc here.

If there was an established neighborhood to work from distance would matter less...but there isn't so it matters more. Also I invite anyone interested to make all those walks (preferably at night) then report back about where they would prefer to rent. Even the people renting in the lofts at RC complain a lot about just walking over the long (and very exposed) viaduct/bridge to the retail on the other side of the river.

Of all the planning battles to pick this one is super marginal.

[Chi-Sky21]

1 interesting idea for the northern part of this area would be eventually (long time out) building of some taller office buildings here. Out of all the locations in the immediate vicinity of the loop, this area would be relatively easy to build on. No NYMBYS to worry about, and large open lots. Of course there are still a ton of lots open for this in the loop still but just a thought. Especially when/if (BIG IF) the old post office gets developed.

[marothisu]

If there was an established neighborhood to work from distance would matter less...but there isn't so it matters more. Also I invite anyone interested to make all those walks (preferably at night) then report back about where they would prefer to rent. Even the people renting in the lofts at RC complain a lot about just walking over the long (and very exposed) viaduct/bridge to the retail on the other side of the river.

Of all the planning battles to pick this one is super marginal.

You're completely missing my point. Let's try it again: there's enough there to support residential living even without the use of a car in the immediate area. This is not an area that has no groceries, no home goods types of stores, convenience, etc. It has all of that shit there already. If you added a residential component to it, it would work. Now, it might not be the most exciting area, but the more people that live around there, the more business you would attract as long as you weren't an idiot with how much you charge businesses for rent.

Also you were talking about straight up distances. I know what your point is but in the end, you said "far" and it's no further to a train stop than parts of Streeterville are to their stops. I don't really care whether there's a neighborhood or not to walk through because that can be developed. We're just talking about distance here and straight up distance wise, if you call that far then you better call the distance from Navy Pier to Grand Red Line far too.