Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by delts145

... If the lower height is set in stone, then the number of rooms will have to be lowered. Sounds to me like they're forcing the room number down. This would force the demand to be spread out around the vicinity of the CC. Accommodate the more vital and demanding personnel above the CC, and spread the convention goers throughout a reasonable perimeter, such as Arrow Press Sq. or an upcoming Royal Wood, etc.

Every convention planner will tell you they need a convention hotel with at least 1,000 rooms, spreading people to other hotels doesn't work as well. There will be a certain not-insignificant number of conventions that will not book in SLC without 1,000 rooms.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by millhouse

I was talking with an engineer working on the CCH. The hotel chain that is working with them on design is known for iconic beautiful buildings. I am not worried about the height restriction. We are going to get something we will all be very happy with.

I can't think of a single hotel chain that is known for iconic, beautiful buildings.

[Palladio]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I can't think of a single hotel chain that is known for iconic, beautiful buildings.

St. Regis? (Most of) Westin? Fairmont? They definitely are in the boutique arm of the market, but the have some pretty incredible buildings across the country.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Palladio

St. Regis? (Most of) Westin? Fairmont? They definitely are in the boutique arm of the market, but the have some pretty incredible buildings across the country.

Fairmont has a lot of beautiful, historic structures, but their newer buildings are not impressive. The same with Westin and St. Regis. They have some beautiful, historic structures, but their newer hotels are mostly meh, with a very few good ones.

[Viperlord]

Originally Posted by asies1981

New series on Building Salt Lake: flashback friday. Post on the 30-story turn of the century skyscraper we almost had.

Excellent find Asies,

I see that Myron contributed to the research on that article. I've heard he's a great information source, and does a ton of research on Downtown Salt Lake.

[bflatflat9]

Originally Posted by asies1981

New series on Building Salt Lake: flashback friday. Post on the 30-story turn of the century skyscraper we almost had.

Is this "pile on S.L.Forumers week" or what?
First, the Zion Ceiling is re-introduced, then Bellevue snickers from afar, now this. I feel like taking my ball and going home.
Seriously, this is a great find and story, one I didn't know totally about; at least not this tower. It would have continued to be our crown jewel, High-rise wise, a century later. And could have re-written the south end of downtown.
I love that architecture, what, Gothic? New York 1900-1945.
Anyway, thanks, I think.

[delts145]

From what I understand The Newhouse was to have been far more elaborate. During the construction of the Newhouse was about the time when his fortunes began to decline. I wish Mr. Newhouse could have held out a few more years. I had no idea this tower could have been. We could have had piece of architecture as incredible in it's style as the City Hall structure.

[Viperlord]

Originally Posted by asies1981

New series on Building Salt Lake: flashback friday. Post on the 30-story turn of the century skyscraper we almost had.

Henry Ives Cobbs was Newhouse's architect. He designed the Liberty Tower in New York about 5 years earlier. The rendering in that historical newspaper appears to be very similar to the Liberty Tower. So, if we could have had a "sister building" comparable to the Liberty Tower in our downtown... Wow, imagine how that would have looked on our skyline.

Also, keep an eye on Asies's website http://www.buildingsaltlake.com/ in the upcoming future. This "Flashback Friday" section will be awesome.

Asies and the crew over at Building Salt Lake have access to all of the research that I've compiled (about 2 gigabytes worth on my google drive). Asies had the idea to put together a historical portion on his site, and when I asked him if he'd be interested in the research I had compiled, he agreed. I wanted this information to be shared with everyone, and I knew that Asies was the right guy to have write about it on his website.
I can guarantee that there are some gems for sure, and I can tell you that there is a lot more to come. So, I'd like to give a special thanks to Asies for taking the time and dedication to making this information available to everyone. Stay Tuned




more images below:
http://www.emporis.com/buildings/115151/liberty-tower-new-york-city-ny-usa

[bflatflat9]

Originally Posted by Viperlord

Henry Ives Cobbs was Newhouse's architect. He designed the Liberty Tower in New York about 5 years earlier. The rendering in that historical newspaper appears to be very similar to the Liberty Tower. So, if we could have had a "sister building" comparable to the Liberty Tower in our downtown... Wow, imagine how that would have looked on our skyline.

Also, keep an eye on Asies's website http://www.buildingsaltlake.com/ in the upcoming future. This "Flashback Friday" section will be awesome.

Asies and the crew over at Building Salt Lake have access to all of the research that I've compiled (about 2 gigabytes worth on my google drive). Asies had the idea to put together a historical portion on his site, and when I asked him if he'd be interested in the research I had compiled, he agreed. I wanted this information to be shared with everyone, and I knew that Asies was the right guy to have write about it on his website.
I can guarantee that there are some gems for sure, and I can tell you that there is a lot more to come. So, I'd like to give a special thanks to Asies for taking the time and dedication to making this information available to everyone. Stay Tuned




more images below:
http://www.emporis.com/buildings/115151/liberty-tower-new-york-city-ny-usa

Yes, a big thanks to Asies and the crew, for sure.
And a big thanks to The Viperlord for being the original Juicegiver.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Every convention planner will tell you they need a convention hotel with at least 1,000 rooms, spreading people to other hotels doesn't work as well. There will be a certain not-insignificant number of conventions that will not book in SLC without 1,000 rooms.

Worked fine in Vegas. We were all spread across the city at different casinos and condos. Everyone made it to the convention center just fine.

[delts145]

Anybody find the fact that it was called Liberty Tower amusing? There was a quote of estimated cost to build back then, and in today's terms translating to around 35 million. Somehow, I think to build that tower today would be a lot more than 35 million. I would love it though, if someone did develop that tower in all of it's intended architectural glory.

Are there updates on the new owner's plans for Gateway? It was pretty big when it was announced. I'm particularly curious as to the hotel/mixed-use with the Depot itself.

[Viperlord]

Utah Jazz seek city's approval for percentage of $125 million arena renovation funding

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/86565...ion-arena-renovation-funding.html?pg=all

As the Jazz considered their options — all of which included keeping the franchise in Utah but not necessarily at the same site — it was determined that the best choice would be to work with the solid bones of the existing building.

A new building would have been much more costly than the renovation.

“They (consultants) said this arena is so classic in its design and the structure of it on the city block that a renovation will get you all of the things that a new build will get you essentially,” Starks said.

“We feel great about that because if we were to look at building a new arena we’d be looking at numbers that are five times what we’re talking about. That becomes a different conversation about how we’d approach that. We were fortunate to have an arena that was built originally the way it was.”

Added Miller: “It became clear very quickly that the best solution for a number of reasons was to just rejuvenate this building.”

Remaining in downtown Salt Lake City — a spot very near and dear to the hearts of the Miller family — is a huge bonus for the organization.

“This is home to us,” Miller said. “We love it.”

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by i-215

Worked fine in Vegas. We were all spread across the city at different casinos and condos. Everyone made it to the convention center just fine.

The LVCC has a 3,000-room hotel on one side and a 550-room hotel on the other. And several other large hotels across the street.

[Future Mayor]

Yes I would love to see that tower rise from the planned ashes. I had once heard that part of his master plan for Exchange Place besides the Boston, Newhouse, Exchange and Commercial Club building was to have a set of matching towers on the East end of Exchange and State that matched, to an extent, the Boston and Newhouse buildings on Main. That is something I heard years ago, but haven't been able to ever confirm it, then again I haven't really tried, maybe that will come out in the Flashback Friday's as well.

Imagine a the Boston and Newhouse, as they exist, the Stock Exchange, Commercial Club, the matching set on State and this 28 story tower, (maybe on the site of Green Pig?) and that end of town is drastically different.

That is one thing I lament about our downtown, yes we have several historic buildings, which I glad we have everyone that we still have, but we don't have that iconic, massive, stone facade office building that so many cities have. That tower would have been just that.

How about I start at kickstarter campaign to build that tower? If the cost is right I only need 3.5 million people to donate $10 each. Who's in?

[ThePusherMan]

I like that idea. Kickstarter specifically for buildings. Buildingstarter. Highest bidder gets to put their stupid name on it. Of course all of our buildings would be named Building Mcbuildingface.

[bflatflat9]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

I like that idea. Kickstarter specifically for buildings. Buildingstarter. Highest bidder gets to put their stupid name on it. Of course all of our buildings would be named Building Mcbuildingface.

How about J.R. McbuildingSmith?
Reality building.
Building strong relationships between neck craners and suits.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Stenar

The LVCC has a 3,000-room hotel on one side and a 550-room hotel on the other. And several other large hotels across the street.

Guess I was the monorail-riding yokel who commuted in and saved a couple bucks.

[Ironweed]

I was able to finally speak to a good friend of mine who worked with Ben McAdams' administration. She is now running for another public office. She has been in the thick of the CCH debacle. Here is what she knows:

Ben is a good guy who really wanted an iconic CCH for SLC. Unfortunately, he and others have run into political roadblocks at every turn.

As was suspected, massive lobbying against the hotel took place at the capitol and city levels from both the Utah Hotel and Lodging Association, and the American Hotel and Lodging association. These two groups represent independent hoteliers and lodging companies. The Holding family, along with the two associations were successful lobbying for a significant reduction of government appropriations. As many of you know, a true CCH has 1000+rooms. Common CCH government appropriations are usually in the 100's of millions, which is ONE reason why Omni stepped away from the deal. It was not Omni being obstinate, but rather the myopic, non-thinking, greedy politicians and local hoteliers.

The reason there were few RFP's or no developers interested in the package was not only due to the small potato appropriations, but that the concessions added to the bill passed ALREADY stipulated a 'smaller' hotel would be built. All courtesy from those against it. Very few developers will build a CCH smaller than 1000 rooms, therefore no major chain wants to put their name on it due to the risk.

Scott Beck from the Salt lake Visitors Bureau repeatedly told legislators and local officials that unless SLC built a legitimate 1000+ room hotel, many of the largest conventions would bypass SLC completely. Scott presented reams of data indicating that the city and community would lose out on millions of potential revenue. All of this fell on the deaf ears of the bought and paid for legislators and officials. After all, if you have the Holding family donating to your next campaign, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you. Right?

The latest 'height restriction' was not a recent decision, but initiated behind closed doors with the initial funding approval. SLC council is just doing a song and a dance.

So what can we expect? As small of a hotel as possible; Likely a 600 roomer which is more of an underdeveloped, sub-compact, 'token' CCH.

Could other hotels be developed to pick up the difference? Sure, but that won't change the minds of the largest conventions into coming to SLC.

Operating from a scarcity mindset has plagued this community for far too long. I am of the belief that a legitimate CCH would benefit everyone including the moronic local hotel owners far more than without one.

Regressive thinking is still alive and well in SLC.

Travel Lodge gets the naming rights. Building to look like this at 375' It will be a beauty!:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Travelod...HVfxBacQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=3MCvGq_XeySmKM%3A







Ok. Last paragraph is a joke,,,,, but so is SLC.

[delts145]

The same type of mindset has occurred over the past decades here in Downtown L. A. regarding a Convention Hotel, new Stadium, and many other proposed projects. Even the Wilshire Grand, which will be L.A's new tallest encountered substantial resistance from certain hoteliers and business interests. Given the immense size of the L.A. CSA, certain developments such as the CCH and NFL stadium should have sailed through the approval process in reasonable time decades ago. However, as much as many wanted the stadium to be downtown, it will not happen. L.A.'s CCH should have occurred many years ago, but it, along with it's convention business and downtown in general has languished behind San Diego and San Fran. Ironically, it took someone the likes of multi-billionaire Eli Broad to leave his island of Century City and the West side, and to start pushing his weight around in the Downtown area. He confessed that it was his penitence for being the 'Father' of American suburbia. Subsequently, diverse international investment along with Asian billions have followed suit.

If many of the CCH proponents here in L.A. would have had their way, the Downtown Los Angeles CCH would have had 2000-plus rooms. Nine hundred-plus rooms, with an additional boutique residential element thrown in was a compromise to the existing powerful hotelier and business interests. Several years since, thousands of additional hotel rooms are developing across the street and around the CBD.

No one wants to see a 1000 to 1200-plus room hotel go up in Downtown Salt Lake more than me. I wish we had a few more billionaires in the mix to compete with the likes of the Holdings. While I appreciate that they built this luxurious island on the south end, it bothers me how insular they have been, when it comes to the CBD as a whole. Even when it comes to something as simple as contributing to the burying of the utility lines around 6th S., they've been very stingy in the past with the city.

If the likes of the Huntsman's and Marriott's could focus on Downtown Salt Lake purely from a benefactor standpoint, then perhaps we would have some healthy competition for the Holdings. But the Marriott's and the Huntsman's are already very generous, and their plate is full with other commitments, such as the Universities and the LDS Church.

When Salt Lake City reaches a maturity level that attracts more billionaires and or international investment on a grander scale from markets such as Canada, Europe, Asia, and Latin America, then the likes of the Holdings will be given a good ole American competitive challenge. Sufficient International investment for projects such as Ken's VOID Center, and a smoother transition to, and a larger CCH would already be happening. Until then, Salt Lake will be challenged in part by it's own peculiar eccentricities. However, that is by no means unique to Salt Lake City. Every MSA/CSA market going through a maturing process has a downside of challenges, including mega markets like Los Angeles. Even MSA's trying to recover their past glory such as in New England, the Midwest, or Great Lakes have numerous eccentricities and unique challenges, which crop up as a result of Capitalism and it's resulting free market. The good news is, the Wasatch Front is beginning to see international investment pour in more and more. We have seen it happening much more regularly as of the recent past. The CSA's tech savvy, tourist industry, and other factors have helped to chip away at the perception barrier of the Wasatch Front as being solely a provincial oddity.

That said, as far as the immediate here and now I fail to see proof where any convention committee will turn a city away if the hotel meets all of the on site sq. footage meeting, banquet and exhibit space requirements for the larger convention. Aside from the upper tier attendee room requirements, the decision makers are not necessarily concerned if the masses are not also accommodated on site. Sure, within a reasonable CBD distance, and not having to stay out in Utah Valley somewhere. We have already seen where Salt Lake City's CBD is ready and willing to build a couple of large hotels and numerous mid-size hotels NOW, vs. one mega hotel.

From a business perspective, I can see the negotiations between the planners and competitor hoteliers holding the ceiling to 800. I think 600 is a low ball that will not prevail, and that 800 will be the logical compromise.

Please, someone show me where 1000-plus rooms is magical for SLC, and that 800 cannot work just as well, given surrounding development. Aren't there a number of CCH's that have gone up nationally, or are under development within that realm of 800 rooms? Isn't Portland and several of our closest competitors building a CCH with approximately 600-800 rooms? Yes, I believe that SLC, given it's proximity to the ski resorts, national forests, etc. can handle a much larger hotel. Then again, SLC has as many or more hotel rooms within it's Downtown perimeter than many cities that are much larger, not including the thousands of rooms on it's doorstep, at one of the World's most glamorous and desirable ski areas. Again, the question I want answered is, show me where the CCH must have that magic number of 1000 guest rooms. And again, as long as the CCH combined with the CC meets the onsite exhibit, banquet, and room requirements for the convention hierarchy and staff, then what else is required as far as an additional boat load of on site beds? As long as the next level of room proximity is met, i.e. the immediate CBD, then the magic one thousand-plus is just emotional hyperboly.

A locally powerful entity like the Holding's might be able to hold up and down size the development of one mega hotel. They cannot thwart the continued development of an ongoing boom of diverse mid to large size hotels in and around the CC. IMO, if the Salt Lake City CCH meets the onsite sq. footage specs previously outlined, then the larger conventions will still be building momentum.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Ironweed

I was able to finally speak to a good friend of mine who worked with Ben McAdams' administration. She is now running for another public office. She has been in the thick of the CCH debacle. Here is what she knows:

Ben is a good guy who really wanted an iconic CCH for SLC. Unfortunately, he and others have run into political roadblocks at every turn.

As was suspected, massive lobbying against the hotel took place at the capitol and city levels from both the Utah Hotel and Lodging Association, and the American Hotel and Lodging association. These two groups represent independent hoteliers and lodging companies. The Holding family, along with the two associations were successful lobbying for a significant reduction of government appropriations. As many of you know, a true CCH has 1000+rooms. Common CCH government appropriations are usually in the 100's of millions, which is ONE reason why Omni stepped away from the deal. It was not Omni being obstinate, but rather the myopic, non-thinking, greedy politicians and local hoteliers.

The reason there were few RFP's or no developers interested in the package was not only due to the small potato appropriations, but that the concessions added to the bill passed ALREADY stipulated a 'smaller' hotel would be built. All courtesy from those against it. Very few developers will build a CCH smaller than 1000 rooms, therefore no major chain wants to put their name on it due to the risk.

Scott Beck from the Salt lake Visitors Bureau repeatedly told legislators and local officials that unless SLC built a legitimate 1000+ room hotel, many of the largest conventions would bypass SLC completely. Scott presented reams of data indicating that the city and community would lose out on millions of potential revenue. All of this fell on the deaf ears of the bought and paid for legislators and officials. After all, if you have the Holding family donating to your next campaign, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you. Right?

The latest 'height restriction' was not a recent decision, but initiated behind closed doors with the initial funding approval. SLC council is just doing a song and a dance.

So what can we expect? As small of a hotel as possible; Likely a 600 roomer which is more of an underdeveloped, sub-compact, 'token' CCH.

Could other hotels be developed to pick up the difference? Sure, but that won't change the minds of the largest conventions into coming to SLC.

Operating from a scarcity mindset has plagued this community for far too long. I am of the belief that a legitimate CCH would benefit everyone including the moronic local hotel owners far more than without one.

Regressive thinking is still alive and well in SLC.

Travel Lodge gets the naming rights. Building to look like this at 375' It will be a beauty!:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Travelod...HVfxBacQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=3MCvGq_XeySmKM%3A







Ok. Last paragraph is a joke,,,,, but so is SLC.

Yes there was major blowback, two years ago from the hotel lobby, when the legislation didn't pass, but that was eased when there was a provision put into place that would reimburse existing hotels if their business was shown to be negatively impacted by the new hotel.

As for the package offered not being enough of an incentive, that is exactly why the County threw in the two Salt Palace parcels into the second RFP. It is monetary value they were able to offer, without actually giving any additional money.

As for the SLC City Council vote simply being a song and dance, that is complete horse shit. My close friend on Council is not a puppet in any way shape or form to anyone, and cannot be bought. Had the height been projected to be taller this individual was ready to go to bat for taller heights.