Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by airhero

Yeah you're right. Like I say I wasn't sure what the precise language was but I decided to look it up and it establishes an absolute max of 375'. That being true, then I agree it's a weird decision and makes little sense, unless...they already know DDRM isn't planning on building anything taller. Which I think is the case.

For anyone interested in reading about the details from the meeting here's a link:

http://slcgov.iqm2.com/Citizens/Detail_L...ID=1138&MediaPosition=&ID=1609&CssClass=

The exact ordinance is found in the Motion Sheet for June 7. In the document it is motion 3.

Also, from the staff report it says the following:



So it looks like DDRM is considering a building that would be about 25 stories. That will definitely be less than 375'.

A 25 story tower in front of Abravanel Hall would just block most of that building and would be very stumpy and wide. Terrible idea. I'm working on a 24-story convention hotel right now and it's only 300 rooms.

[Future Mayor]

My sources also confirmed that the County/DDRM anticipate the hotel only being about 22-25 stories, so some members of Council didn't object to the hard limit on the height, because it didn't seem to matter.

There is support on Council for taller height limits if the project ends up needing that additional height.

[Ro-Longo]

Originally Posted by Ro-Longo

it would be funny if it wasn't true.

I can recall a number of times where plans were announced in the past for buildings taller the Church office Tower only to be mysteriously cancelled for some reason. Lets face it folks. The COT will continue to "look down" on all other buildings.

and yes I know the Wells Fargo building in technically taller, but because its location, the COT looks taller.

Sadly I was correct.... The Zion Curtain prevails again. I would have been glad to be wrong. Oh well, SLC will be a city with stumpy buildings for the foreseeable future.

[JMK]

VOA youth resource center is complete

http://fox13now.com/2016/05/24/voa-youth-resource-center-opens-new-bigger-facility-in-slc/

Volunteers of America opened their new Youth Resource Center in Salt Lake City at 888 S. 400 West.

Their old facility on State Street was 5,000 square feet while the new building now sits at 20,000 square feet.

The modern, spacious building will provide overnight shelter for homeless teens ages 15-22 years old - an option that wasn't available until now.

"What we can really do is provide a safe place for them. Not mixed in with adults," said Rob Wesemann, the Division Director of Homeless Services, VOA of Utah.

Img Source: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/86565...ffer-help-to-homeless-youths.html?pg=all

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Ro-Longo

Sadly I was correct.... The Zion Curtain prevails again. I would have been glad to be wrong. Oh well, SLC will be a city with stumpy buildings for the foreseeable future.

Nice try, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with it!

[bflatflat9]

Originally Posted by Ro-Longo

Sadly I was correct.... The Zion Curtain prevails again. I would have been glad to be wrong. Oh well, SLC will be a city with stumpy buildings for the foreseeable future.

Suddenly I can't wait to visit family in San Fran. Extended stay.
Is there any recourse, any...anyone out there?
HELP! Help us!
Tammy Faye B., Alan Greenspan, Luther Vandross, ...Jimmy Durante.
Adnan, okay, we really do like your Triad schematics.
I'll bet Wayne Newton had something to do with all of this.
Okay, I hate him, but maybe The Donald.....

[wrendog]

Still disappointed. 375 max. That blows.

So, what is the next tower we should get excited about until our dreams get shattered?

Waiting for a surprise, out of nowhere, announcement of a 500+ footer. Is that too much to ask?

Living so close to Austin right now, it blows my mind every time I drive by downtown and see all the new cranes and towers. They are seemingly always announcing a new, skyline defining tower. Sigh. Some day, SLC (and San Antonio, for that matter), some day.

[Comrade]

If yous all would listen to me you would've seen this coming from a mile away.

But go on how negative I am.

I just know how this city operates.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Nice try, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with it!

I like you Future Mayor, and hopefully we can do a deal, but all evidence points to a 'zion blanket' that keeps buildings shorter than the COB.

I sincerely doubt I'll see a 500 footer in my lifetime in SLC. Like you said, the D-1 is 375' and the demand is just not there. I doubt it will ever be.

Maybe there is some grand plan, that when fully carried out, the concept of stubby high rises will make the planners look like geniuses?

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by Comrade

If yous all would listen to me you would've seen this coming from a mile away.

But go on how negative I am.

I just know how this city operates.

Naw Comrade. Not negative. You're just a realist.

SLC has a long, long, long, way to go to be considered an elite, cosmopolitan, international city. Which is what I always hear from the talking heads wanting to see happen.

I think they are speaking from another part of their anatomy.

[Utah_Dave]

If the rumors are true, and we end up with a 20-25 story hotel. I really have to questions the fiscal responsibility of providing tax incentives on such a large scale to one hotel chain for what could be a very non discript hotel. I figured we were offering up these incentives for something more then this. I know this is still early in the process but I don't like where this is headed. I selfishly accepted the large tax incentives for an iconic hotel that was very likely to be a new tallest. Now I can't justify $75,000,000 in incentives for a brick. I feel fleeced.

Also, I take it that some residential development is kinda out of the question?

[Comrade]

Let's just build a Howard Johnson and call it a day.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by millhouse

I was talking with an engineer working on the CCH. The hotel chain that is working with them on design is known for iconic beautiful buildings. I am not worried about the height restriction. We are going to get something we will all be very happy with.

Very good to hear, but it's a mass of confusion given the dimensions Future Mayor was quoting. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. If we get a beautifully designed, albeit 25 story tower, I'm fine with that. If your engineer is right, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, then perhaps something else is a foot here. Under the current restrictions something has to give. If the lower height is set in stone, then the number of rooms will have to be lowered. Sounds to me like they're forcing the room number down. This would force the demand to be spread out around the vicinity of the CC. Accommodate the more vital and demanding personnel above the CC, and spread the convention goers throughout a reasonable perimeter, such as Arrow Press Sq. or an upcoming Royal Wood, etc. For a long list of reasons and bottom line, from purely a businessman's or Chamber of Commerce perspective this would make perfect sense to me. It wouldn't be the new tallest, but it would generate a lot more infill growth around the CC by way of new hotel groups, and their accompanying services. If this new CCH will accommodate the demands of bigger conventions, and at the same time because of it's generated growth, give impetus to a continued hotel boom around the CC, that's actually a very good and sensible business model.

The dreamer in me wants the new tallest now, and for it to be the CCH. The CCH, because that would seem to be the quickest mode to satisfy my hunger for Salt Lake City to break the proverbial glass ceiling. However, the businessman in me loves the idea of spreading out the hotel boom from the Main St. environs to the Gateway Center. As with many of you, I think the infill argument still outweighs the new tallest argument at this point. Some would say, build tall and 1200 rooms now, Salt Lake needs it NOW. It would seem that a more careful approach will prevail on satisfying the most concrete here and now. If this whole increase in number of convention goers pans out as many predict, then let the market build more rooms immediately around the Convention Center. We all know from Utah Planner and others who deal with this daily, that there is tremendous interest in hotel and convention services for the Salt Lake market. Once DDRM and, (Hopefully Marriott/Starwood)begin the development phase, the proof will be in the pudding. We all know that large conventions must book several years in advance. So what will cranes, brick and mortar really do for the convention bookings? I would like to think that not only a sooner to follow second hotel on the huge CC site, that we always complain is too low-rise, but many additional tourist/visitor related infill developments around the Convention Center.

[Comrade]

[Salty Laker]

You guys who are disappointed should only be disappointed in yourselves. If your "optimism" constantly sets you up for disappointment, then what is its purpose? It's not really optimism at all. More like pessimism that is masked until all your hopes and dreams are shattered, then it comes out full force and gets everybody depressed. Seriously. Comrade is one of the more optimistic people on this forum when you look at it that way. (well actually...no he's not)

Projects will get scaled down. It happens in every city. Even in the magic fairyland of Austin, which seems to be every small city's role model, for some reason, projects get scaled down. Like the Fairmont Hotel that at first was tall and sleek and now it's just a glass wall, like every other new building in Austin, except for the Austonian. Really, Austin is not that great when it comes to design. But guess what? Neither is any small or mid-sized city. So whenever you hear early reports of what a project will be like or if you hear "insider information" from one of the forumers, don't get your hopes up. Instead, decrease the greatness of the early details and rumors you're hearing by 30-40% and then you'll never be disappointed. And certainly don't expect anything greater.

From the looks of it, as details come out that seem pretty close to final details, the CCH will be between 300 and 350 feet tall. That's a great size for this city, although you wouldn't know it from the backlash from certain people. It's on par with CC hotels other Salt Lake-sized cities are getting. If you would have all been honest with yourselves you wouldn't have expected anything significantly taller than what it looks like we're getting.

Also, I have some insider information. Salt Lake will get a 500 footer in the next 5-10 years.

(Now, let's practice. 30-40% less than 500 is 300-350. 30-40% more than 5-10 years is 7-14 years. Let's just expect 14 is accurate. There you go! You won't be disappointed now!)

[airhero]

Can't say I disagree with you Salty Laker, although the tough talk tone is a little ridiculous.

Originally Posted by delts145

Very good to hear, but it's a mass of confusion given the dimensions Future Mayor was quoting. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. If we get a beautifully designed, albeit 25 story tower, I'm fine with that. If your engineer is right, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, then perhaps something else is a foot here. Under the current restrictions something has to give. If the lower height is set in stone, then the number of rooms will have to be lowered. Sounds to me like they're forcing the room number down. This would force the demand to be spread out around the vicinity of the CC. Accommodate the more vital and demanding personnel above the CC, and spread the convention goers throughout a reasonable perimeter, such as Arrow Press Sq. or an upcoming Royal Wood, etc. For a long list of reasons and bottom line, from purely a businessman's or Chamber of Commerce perspective this would make perfect sense to me. It wouldn't be the new tallest, but it would generate a lot more infill growth around the CC by way of new hotel groups, and their accompanying services. If this new CCH will accommodate the demands of bigger conventions, and at the same time because of it's generated growth, give impetus to a continued hotel boom around the CC, that's actually a very good and sensible business model.

The dreamer in me wants the new tallest now, and for it to be the CCH. The CCH, because that would seem to be the quickest mode to satisfy my hunger for Salt Lake City to break the proverbial glass ceiling. However, the businessman in me loves the idea of spreading out the hotel boom from the Main St. environs to the Gateway Center. As with many of you, I think the infill argument still outweighs the new tallest argument at this point. Some would say, build tall and 1200 rooms now, Salt Lake needs it NOW. It would seem that a more careful approach will prevail on satisfying the most concrete here and now. If this whole increase in number of convention goers pans out as many predict, then let the market build more rooms immediately around the Convention Center. We all know from Utah Planner and others who deal with this daily, that there is tremendous interest in hotel and convention services for the Salt Lake market. Once DDRM and, (Hopefully Marriott/Starwood)begin the development phase, the proof will be in the pudding. We all know that large conventions must book several years in advance. So what will cranes, brick and mortar really do for the convention bookings? I would like to think that not only a sooner to follow second hotel on the huge CC site, that we always complain is too low-rise, but many additional tourist/visitor related infill developments around the Convention Center.

At the very least I think APS is a good possibility. Definitely wouldn't guarantee it but I'm sure APS will happen and that it could be another 300-600 rooms. I'd put money on the hotel next to the Holiday Inn too. And, of course, we have the AC Hotel, which seems like a done deal. Royal Wood, unless the CCH somehow ends up getting built there, still won't see any convention center-related development for at least another 10 years, in my opinion. Not until the county decides to build an expansion.

[delts145]

The problem is not that we are looking at things from being too optimistic or pessimistic. There should always be room for optimists and pessimists in this forum. Perhaps, we should though be more reluctant to approach the grandiose on one end of the scale, and the 'never will happen' on the other end. Either end is fun, but then we may want to be more objective or business like in our approach.

Right now, we haven't seen the design or the actual REALITY. The good and careful business approach would say satisfy the customers immediate demands. That would dictate a certain space to accommodate a very specific group of convention planners, executives and whales.

So Future Mayor, Orlando, Makid, and all those who relish the process. What do we need to accommodate the immediate needs of a group like Outdoor Retailers and similar larger convention groups? I imagine that on convention sight rooms can be accommodated for this group in a 25 story tower. Also, would the additional ballroom, meeting room, etc. type space be developed and bled into the current convention center, particularly on the south plot?

[EPdesign]

Im still excited that this will still mean growth. Yes the dynamics of the city are not as venturous or as bold as we would like...but growth is happening. Yes I like the big dreams and get excited...and I like that. Reality is not a disappointment. It is reality. We have always been conservative in our growth. But we have also benefited from that. I with Delts. This spreads the growth around. That is good. We have multiple projects in the works. That is good. This city is growing and that is good.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by airhero

...At the very least I think APS is a good possibility. Definitely wouldn't guarantee it but I'm sure APS will happen and that it could be another 300-600 rooms.

I agree airhero. An excellent base from which to plan for an Arrow Press Sq. Hotel mix. Realistically, given Salt Lake's planners and developers conservative propensity, we could be looking at a long period of steady, gradual, but impressive buildup of infill.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Salty Laker

You guys who are disappointed should only be disappointed in yourselves. If your "optimism" constantly sets you up for disappointment, then what is its purpose? It's not really optimism at all. More like pessimism that is masked until all your hopes and dreams are shattered, then it comes out full force and gets everybody depressed. Seriously. Comrade is one of the more optimistic people on this forum when you look at it that way. (well actually...no he's not)

Projects will get scaled down. It happens in every city. Even in the magic fairyland of Austin, which seems to be every small city's role model, for some reason, projects get scaled down. Like the Fairmont Hotel that at first was tall and sleek and now it's just a glass wall, like every other new building in Austin, except for the Austonian. Really, Austin is not that great when it comes to design. But guess what? Neither is any small or mid-sized city. So whenever you hear early reports of what a project will be like or if you hear "insider information" from one of the forumers, don't get your hopes up. Instead, decrease the greatness of the early details and rumors you're hearing by 30-40% and then you'll never be disappointed. And certainly don't expect anything greater.

From the looks of it, as details come out that seem pretty close to final details, the CCH will be between 300 and 350 feet tall. That's a great size for this city, although you wouldn't know it from the backlash from certain people. It's on par with CC hotels other Salt Lake-sized cities are getting. If you would have all been honest with yourselves you wouldn't have expected anything significantly taller than what it looks like we're getting.

Also, I have some insider information. Salt Lake will get a 500 footer in the next 5-10 years.

(Now, let's practice. 30-40% less than 500 is 300-350. 30-40% more than 5-10 years is 7-14 years. Let's just expect 14 is accurate. There you go! You won't be disappointed now!)

At least Santa Claus is still real.